Jon, did they let you choose anyone or did it have to be from their list of player or from someone with an active role on the current team? That is, could it have been Tommy Lasorda or Jackie Robinson?

The fact is that there is no obvious choice (other than Vin) is an indication that, despite many appearances to the contrary, 2007 is a rebuilding year. The Dodgers should look at winning the division the same way Tampa Bay looks at finishing .500 -- a nice unexpected bonus for fans, but not the point of the season.

It could be Martin, but I hope a year or two from now he has competition from Billingsley, Loney, Kemp, LaRoche, Broxton, Stults or Meloan.

For this year, I would have voted for Saito. Literally, the smiling "face" we see in almost every win.

I could choose anyone. It was just my feeling that it should be an active member.

Good quote from Joel Hanrhahan last night: "It's not fun starting out behind 1-0 after your first pitch."

He had another rookie-type outing, a bit rockier than his last. Went 5 innings, gave up 3 runs, ran lots of counts full, threw about 645 pitches, but worked out of a lot of jams and showed some good stuff. I'd say unless he really truly implodes (or gets hurt), he'll be in the Nationals rotation the rest of the year.

Sadly, he struck out twice dropping his season OPS to 1.111. :(

Fine, pick Russell Martin! See if I care!

(crumples up photo of Jack Fimple and tosses it in the crash)

Tommy Lasorda. Sorry Daniel, I would vote for Chris Farly's Tommy Boy before Lasorda. He is the reason we have Ned and had two years of huge turmoil. Notwithstanding 1988, for my money, Tommy's involvment has been a net loss.

5 Hey, I crumpled up Fimple's picture and trashed it in disappointment first!

----

As I posted at end of prev. thread, I got serious deja vu from the Tomko quotes this morning. Yes, he's got great stuff. Why is it such a surprise that he still stinks? Great stuff doesn't translate into consistent command, putting the pitches in the right place, or into having emotional control.

6 I didn't say I would have voted for him either, it was just an innocent question!

When you see the poll on the ESPN site and it lists Nomar, Grady Little, Martin, Penny, and Scully, you get the sense they were looking for someone from this year's team. If you were conducting a poll that takes into account the past, and includes those who had a major impact and were the "face" of the organization to the public, Tommy Lasorda has to be near the top of that list.

Ratt, does anyone at 1000 Elysian Park Ave think this is a rebuilding year? Not sure any other team in history has spent $108M on a rebuilding season. I hope you are right I just have my doubts that term "rebuilding" even exists in Ned's lexicon.

So Lieberthal may not start either of the next 2 games in Philly; sounds like he's slated to start Sunday night's game in NY, according to Dodgers.com. (Barring a rainout today forcing a doubleheader tomorrow.)

Andy LaRoche should be back for Vegas in one of the next games this week.

If you were interested in Alfredo Silverio, see the end of the previous thread.

6. I wouldn't call Tommy a net loss, but I would certainly not make him the face of the Dodgers at this time. First of all, there are all of the mistakes of the '90's in terms of player personel. Secondly, the fact that he is the consensus choice of the people commenting on the Dodger section of the discussion thread of espn.com, makes more against the selection, especially when you read the justifications. Thirdly, he is just no longer really relevant to what the Dodgers put on the field and the ballpark experience, and hasn't been for a long time.

For a long time, Tommy Lasorda was the face of the organization. Just not any more.

8. Sorry. I know you didn't say you would vote Tommy, I just bristle at the notion that Tommy's involvment in the team has been overall positive.

The "featured article" on the front page of Wikipedia today might be of some passing interest to DT readers.

I'm sayin' Don Stanhouse was robbed.

To the poster who brought up rebuilding, why does management, whether it be the Dodgers or Lakers, undervalue the intelligence of its fans? Do they think the fans are so dumb they will decide to stop going to games forever just because they don't have a big name or show a continuous attempt to get all the marbles every year? Instead you wind up with decades of mediocrity. It's somewhat disconcerting to see this perceived lack of foresight from fans who go to the game.

14 But during the time he was their manager, I loved Tommy Lasorda. I may have been in my youth, when I didn't know anything about stats or pitch counts, but I knew I liked Tommy. This was partly because he was Italian and I had a fairly strong Italian heritage growing up, but also because the Dodgers were doing well and he was always in the center of it. To my young eye, he represented the Dodgers.

No need to hunt around, Jon. Here's a direct link:

http://tinyurl.com/2ka52f

Just to set the record: I too would put Vin as the face of the Dodgers. The difference with having Vin vs. Russell Martin is that Vin transcends sports, so even people who don't watch baseball know about him.

12 - I agree. Lasorda has been a nonentity for a long time now, being the man shoved, in Japanese practice, into the meaningless corner office for deeds accomplished long ago. That he has a number of other creepy faults (his son's death in particular and his subsequent public nonreaction to it) has really soured me on him.

It is ironic that the Nats who have been around for 3 years have a near consensus choice in Ryan Zimmerman but the Dodgers have their announcer. Not that Vin isn't the greatest but shouldn't the face be someone on the field. It signifies just how much turnover or disappointment there has been in the last few years. The only person we had to market as the face was Nomar and his performance pretty much made that impossible.

BTW, the fact that the Mets choice appears to be Reyes as opposed to Wright is surprising. I would have gone with Wright hands down.

When people were speculating the last few day, I had a hunch it would be Martin. Jon you couldn't have made a better pick in my opinion, though Vin would also suit just fine.

18. I get that. I really do. I'd be lying if I said my daughters fascination with Shawn Green didn't have anything to do with his being Jewish. But I just think Tommy was in the right place at the right time for a few years. Apart from that, he is famous for being loud, telling stories, famous swearing triads, his rat infested restaurant in the Marina, his phony weight lass program and oh yeah, completely destabilizing management for the last few years

22 I think a big part of that is that they're last in the "longest tenured player category" and the two guys that qualify are Brazoban and Saenz. When you get to actual impact players, Penny has been here the longest followed by Lowe and Saenz, and there certainly hasn't been any sort of effort to push these guys as the face of the franchise.

Tommy makes my top 5 just for his Bavacqua rant alone. :)

25

I agree with that. Back in 2004 or so, pre-trade, the consensus pick would be Paul LoDuca, if leaving out broadcasters.

By the way, I've always wondered what the DodgerThoughts reaction was to that trade when it happened. I won't have time to delve into the archives, anyone got a summary?

I thought that the Rawlings Gold Glove team was pretty good, outside of 2nd base. Just a complete travesty. The best option came in last place, the second best option wasn't even on the ballot, and then on the ESPN sportnation poll asking who was snubbed for not even appearing on the ballot, the second best wasn't even an option there.

The Reds now think that Joey Votto is a quadruple A player apparently? Would anyone be interested in him?

25 should have said Lowe and Kent, by the way.

Sometimes it is not about the intelligence of the fans but the cost. Can the Lakers say they are rebuilding while still charging 100.00 a ticket? It is easy for the TV viewing public or the casual ticket fan to get behind a rebuilding program but it is not so easy for the season ticket holder who is the backbone of most organizations. Any real rebuilding program would involve a 3 year plan, so why would the season ticket holder fork over their money for 3 seasons while they rebuilt the team? Thus they never use the word rebuilding, it is reloading which gives the connotation that while they may be down this year they will come back loaded for action the following season.

29
Unless you have news that they resigned Hatteberg to a deal I don't think they have given up on Votto at all. They brought up Cantu because they want to see what they have and if he'll be worth keeping around. Unless I'm just reading this wrong Votto will be the 1st baseman next year. In less then two years the Reds will have added Philips, Hamilton, Votto, and Bruce to a lineup that already had Griffy, Dunn, and a young Encarnacion. With Baily and Cueto to go along with Arroyo and Harang I'd be excited if I was a Reds fan.

3 Jon, you mentioned that you submitted this back in June, so maybe your memory is fuzzy, or did they change the rules on you? On the page ESPN writes this (emphasis mine):

"ESPN.com's SportsNation has convened a panel of 64 experts -- writers, bloggers, and a former player -- to give their picks for which current player, manager, owner, or mascot is the "face" of each of baseball's 30 franchises."

Kudos for a good choice; Vin was the easy way out.

At this point, would Lasorda qualify as a "mascot" of sorts?

Found this interview with Takashi Saito on AOL yesterday. Not your typical interview questions...

If you ordered a pizza to the bullpen, what chance would anybody have of getting a slice after Jon Broxton got at it?

http://sports.aol.com/mlb/story/_a/saito-stands-out-with-humility-intact/20070815182409990001

................................

And congrats to Wes Parker! He was my favorite player.

We'd listen to the game with Vin & Jerry on KFI. After the post-game show, Dave Hull, the Hullabalooer, would come on the radio, and Wes would stop by to visit with Dave after the game. In between records, they'd chat about the game, and tell "groaners" that were sent in by listeners.

32 It's a quote I saw from one of their beat writers on BTF, but I can't dind the source.

28
Morgan was no slouch with the glove but he isn't a top 5 candidate. It is hard to believe that Maz is not number one. He wouldn't have sniffed the HOF if not for his glove.

Any current players that might knock someone off the at list? Orlando Hudson is dynamite with the glove.

24 Very hard on Tommy Lasorda around here. FOrget his GM time. He brought up tons of young players, probably more than any manager in the last 50 years. He won 6 divisions in a 12 year span, when it was a 6 team division. His blowhard nature got the headlines, but he was a fine manager. He wasn't any harder on pitchers than most others his age. I don't get the Tommy derision

34
Nice find. Very political correct answers.

36 I think Jim Edmonds might deserve a bit more of a look. He's probably not one of the best all time, but he certainly deserves it over Griffey who has been terrible defensively since he went to Cincinnati.

Also, Scott Rolen has the same rate2 as Ozzie Smith, who BPs system ranks as by far the greatest defender of all time. Rolen still needs to go through a decline phase, so it probably won't last, but I'm pretty sure that they just handed the thing to Brooks Robinson without giving it a second thought.

24 Apart from that, he is famous for being loud, telling stories ...

I really think you're missing it. Tommy is famous for bleeding Dodger blue. He loves the Dodgers and he's always telling everyone about it. That's what made him the face of the organization in the 70s and 80s.

34 I love the Japanese style:

DH: What formal samurai training do you have?
TS: You probably know, but carrying a real sword in Japan is illegal.

Actually, the questioner probably didn't know it was illegal, but you would never embarrass someone, even just a reporter.

33 - Sorry, Dave - what are you asking me exactly?

Regarding the roster crunch discussion from the last thread, another guy to purge from the 40-man is Tim Hamulack.

43 But then I wouldn't get to chortle in my mind in Jon's old joke about the guy making a sandwich, and he's got bread, and mustard, and swiss cheese, and lettuce and tomato . . . .

37
I expect there is a large difference in opinions about Tommy from those who were here when he took over for Alston and those who've only seen the front office Tommy, and weren't there when he molded the kids of 74.
If I didn't start following the Dodgers until 1983 I would think of Tommy as a Dodger caricature of a Blue Santa Claus with a mean streak.

Later we may have found out he was mean spirited compared to his public persona but that shouldn't lessen what he did as a manager from 74-78.

Really nice words from Wes Parker - see update above.

44 - Was that me?

36. Morgan may deserve top 5 at Second Base, but he can't touch Maz, and I'd put Frank White above anyone besides Maz that was on that list.

Just to angry up the blood this morning, Jeter finished second to Smith in the voting.

48
Yeah, Frank White was awesome. I at least saw him play, Maz only at the end but I always liked him because of his WS home run even though I was 10 before I was even aware it happened 6 years before.

Percentage of runs scored via the home run: Dodgers are 28th in baseball. Angels are 30th. But the Angels have score 79 more runs.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6616

47: Hmmmm . . . I guess I'm not really sure though I remembered it that way . . . it's your site, you get credit for all the funny things that show up here, right?

49
I guess Mark Belanger blew off his wings when he saw that.

New post at Screen Jam.

52 - It might have been me ... I can't remember now.

51
Helps when your speed guys (Figgy, Willits) actually get on base.

50. My dad had season tickets to the Royals in '84, I have a little soft spot for those guys now, even though I was rooting against them in the '85 series.

45 He was a coach from 74-76, taking over (if you don't count a handful games in 1976), in 1977. And when you hear Garvey, Cey and Russell talk about their early years, its Alston who they talk about, Tommy was their guy in the minors and the ones that they achieved a lot of their success but Alston did set their foundation and of course managed them to their first pennant in 1974.

Interesting that someone said Tommy brought up tons of kids, he did begin to replace them in the early '80s, usually a year at a time, and while Fernando and Sax and Hershiser and Guerrero were good if not great players, and he won in 1983, 1985 and 1988, those teams were very different than his first group, primarily because free agency was now entrenched in the game.

After Tommy won his second title, two things happened, the farm system aside from a few players, went kaput and Fred Claire began to bring in veteran players to fill holes.

That combo did not produce the success of Tommy's first decade as manager and while the names were impressive, the team began to look up at the Braves and Giants.

Tommy will always be a face of the Dodgers to many who live outside of LA as well as to those of us whose team was that 1974-1981 Dodgers like me, but when I think of the Dodgers today, I don't picture Tommy as the face of the team anymore.

Since his huge slump in May Figgy has been an OB machine.
June - 496
July - 417
Aug - 411

One of the big knocks on Los Angeles is that it's a "fake" town. It's pretty silly, but that's what it is. Tommy fits that perfectly.

Fake.

57
They were my favorite AL team in 80's because of the battles with the Yankee's.

58
Yeah, thanks for fixing my brain cramp. I had it fixated that he started in 74 and didn't look it up.

I loved the Royals as a kid because of George Brett, Willie Wilson, and especially Dan Quisenberry.

Reds face of the franchise is pretty funny

Is Wes Parker the greatest Claremont Men's College alum to ever play major league ball?

46
That is great stuff.

65 - More importantly, is he the greatest Harvard High School alum?

http://65.61.134.78/alumni/news/default.asp?newsid=373013&show=detail&bhcp=1

HAIKU ON OPENING UP ROSTER POSITIONS:

To clear the roster,
Cut Hendrickson, Tomko and
Names that end in "z"

58 Growing up in Virginia in those years, the face of the team to me was GarveyLopesRussellCey (expressed in one syllable). Lasorda emerged as "the face" because no one significant stuck around all that long after those guys. Piazza came closest. Right now, I agree with Martin, although if you wanted to be negative, one of our all-but-washed-up ex-Giants works just as well.

63. I like Danny Jackson until he went to the Reds, but Steve Balboni was my favorite, outside of Frank White.

19 - Belated thanks.

It was all George Brett for me and the endless supply of good starting pitching.

67
I would have to go with Bob Scanlan.

No love for Damon Buford?

68

Rudy Seanez too?

75
ESPECIALLY Seanez. But ESPECIALLY Saenz.

More on Wes:
From USA Today: "I'm out of my mind with joy," Parker says. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2007-08-22-gold-gloves-fan-vote_N.htm

From a Press Release:
Parker...will be recognized for the honor at Dodger Stadium on August 29.
http://www.sportsfeatures.com/index.php?section=pp&action=show&id=42011

68 Even Stultz?

{runs}

78
You can, but you can't hide....

74 - I forgot about Damon. His older brother Daryl was in my class - I believe he was the one who trounced me in the race for eighth-grade president - but he later went to high school elsewhere.

And oldest brother Don, Jr. played at Stanford before transfering to a little local school. Look at him now:

http://www.smcnt.com/buford.php

For all those of you want to seemingly DFA the entire bench, who do you plan on replacing these guys with? Who in the Dodger organization can do what Ramon Martinez does that you can safely stash on the bench most of the time?

81 Tony Abreu.

I like how Tony Jackson's gamer this morning was basically a clarion call for the promotion of James McDonald. If even the mainstream media is climbing on board this bandwagon, perhaps it actually has a chance of happening.

All aboard!

Next year Abreu or Hu should be able to handle the utility role of Ramon.
Ask us a harder question.

Wow I initially didn't realize the Dodgers had so many players with last names ending in "Z". I just thought of Seanez and Saenz.

83 So this is for next year then?

Even so, I think Abreu still needs a lot of work and should be playing every day for Vegas until he advances his plate discipline beyond Shea Hillenbrand levels.

Don Buford, Sr. played for an LA City High School baseball champion, a College World Series champion, and a World Series champion.

And he got into a Rose Bowl to boot.

Killer B's, G-Men, meet the "Z-Squad"

81 That was an easier question to answer before the trade deadline.

82
From High A to Shea in a single season for a guy BA listed as our 8th best RHP prospect and didn't make their top 30.

I don't think I've ever seen such a climb before from a prospect not on anyone's radar. Canuck had him ranked 15th, but from 15th to Shea would still be an amazing climb.

88
Yeah but he can't play the middle infield:)

89 Yeah, it's pretty amazing. It's a lot easier for a pitcher than a hitter, because there's a lot less to learn -- they either have the pitches or they don't. Although, Matt Kemp did go from "not on anyone's radar" to major league sensation in roughly one calendar year (June 2005 to June '06).

9 The Dodgers have always had a problem with the rebuilding thing. I think McCourt said it during our meeting with him...or in some other venue...that (in his opinion) the fans won't tolerate it.

Hence, in 2007 (and to some degree 2006), the Dodgers have been conbuilding. Retending. Promoting a Billingsley, bringing in a Schmidt. Hey, if they've got the money...

It's a bad strategy if all you're doing is bringing in costly free agents like Claire and Malone tried to do while neglecting the farm system. But focusing on the farm system doesn't necessarily preclude bringing in free agents.

Look at the Yankees. All of a sudden, they're playing better and getting major contributions from Cano, Hughes, Chamberlain, Cabrera, Betemit. They were on the verge of looking old and bloated just a few weeks ago, it seems, but they've managed to retool while in flight. There is no reason the Dodgers can't do the same or better, if our GM stops hiring wastes of space like Tomko.

Just as long as no one is getting rid of people whose last names start with z.

All right, now this is just plain weird. Someone broke into a local taxidermist's office and stole $40,000 worth of skins, heads, and antlers.

94
Hey, that moose head came with my apartment!

Name the three L.A. Dodgers whose last names started with Z. They're all fairly well known players. No cheating.

Did I say three? I meant four.

All four are guys you should remember.

96