Always and forever my favorite pinch hitter.

---

Meanwhile, comment from a Mets Blog (Amazin' Avenue):

If it makes you guys feel any better

David Wells signed with the Dodgers and will face us Sunday night. Good times a-comin' boys, mighty good times...

Game 3, 1977 NL Playoffs. I was listening to that game on the radio at school.

I can only imagine if DT existed then, what people would have been typing when Vic Davalillo laid down his two out bunt single.

And then Manny hit the ball that Luzinski couldn't catch, eventually Vic scored all the way from first and Manny got to third.

I am sure I saw it then but I know that the general consenus was that Davey Lopes was thrown out on his grounder that scored Manny to tie the game.

Bill Russell got his first of two big hits in playoffs against the Phillies, driving home Lopes who got to second on a bad pickoff throw.

I did not see Game 4 either, but I listened as I was told that no one thought the game should have been played due to the rain but Johnny B hit a homer and Tommy John won the game to send the Dodgers to the Series.

I didn't see Mota as a player, but he, Perranoski, Amalfitano, and Dodger Dogs were as big a part of my Dodgers childhood as anything.

3 Just wondering, was the Jack Clark home run your first (unfortunately) Dodger memory.

1977 NLCS Game 3 DT thread:

Guy:
Davalillo? Well. The game is over.

Guy 2:
Why do we even keep this guy around? Why not use Mota?

Guy 3:
Just another loss

(15 minutes pass)
Guy:
We got lucky to win that one.

Guy 2:
The Dodgers didn't deserve to win that one.

Guy 3:
We won because Ozark was more incompetent than Tommy.

4 Why, yes. Yes it was.

3 I echo Brock. I just turned 30 also, so we probably have the same childhood Dodger memories.

I love Manny Mota. But my all-time favorite pinch hitter is Dave Hansen.

6 Actually, that's interesting to me because I don't really have any big sports memories when I was that young, I do recall Jerry West's half court shot but its hard to say if I knew about at that time, it is possible because I do know I followed that series.

Probably it would be the beginning of the 33 game winning streak in 1971, I think that was first time I really followed the Lakers.

Started following the Dodgers then too.

Hansen was awesome, too. He was money as a PH.

5 Hah. That's perfect. Don't forget - Guy 4: I really hope Al Campanis is out of here after tonight. He's a great guy but, what're they gonna do, keep him around for another 10 years?

Guy 5: I think Russell should be batting 2nd.

Mota's career OPS+ as a pinch hitter - 100
Hansen's career OPS+ as a pinch hitter - 93

Other notable pinch hitters that there's data for:

Lenny Harris - 97
Mark Sweeney - 90
Gates Brown - 81
Greg Gross - 78

It's not an easy job.

Being 31 my only memory of Manny is trying to collect his lithograph from the 76 stations. For some reason in my memory his was the last one my dad and I found, driving all the way from Pasadena to Arcadia trying to find a 76 station with one left. My other memory from that time frame is sitting in the top deck for opening day in 1982.

5 If I can disown the first comment from the man, I'll play Guy 3, I mean, what was Luzinski doing in left field to misplay the Mota fly ball? And by "disown", I mean to say that while I wasn't thinking "just another loss", there was that slight chilling breeze of despair in the air...

But if not me, maybe Larry Bowa can play Guy 3, but again, with the "disowning" of the prior comment:

"I never understood that[.] All year long Danny is taking Bull out for a defensive replacement late in the game. Sure as hell, a fly ball goes out there that Jerry Martin just sucks up. If he's out there, we win that game. Danny had some excuse about getting Bull another at-bat in the ninth inning. But weren't even going to bat in the ninth inning if we won."

Being a Dodger fan, for me, has been a lot like being a UCLA football and baseball fan. I don't quite understand why we aren't a monster program, but I accept it. Sure, I get upset, but it is what it is. Everybody wonders what is going on, and I just go along with it.

13 Why "accept" it? Our problem is that we really don't have the "tradition", I mean, outside of the alum and loyal fans, who really remembers the bowl years? What rankles me about Terry is that the Rose Bowl teams weren't even his best, as they overachieved. '87 and '88 could have been the start of the tradition, but weren't. Ironically enough, that Bruins Nation aka FireKarl Dorrell website has a piece titled "Karl Dorrell's Mediocre God Father", with the godfather being one Terry Donohue, and it is true that Karl's first coaching was under Terry as a grad assistant. From that same piece, here is a part of the roster of the '87 team:

Gaston Green, Ken Norton, Flipper Anderson, Dennis Price, James Washington, Mel Farr, Troy Aikman, Darryl Henley, Carnell Lake, Eric Ball, Jim Wahler, Marvcus Patton, Mike Lodish, Charles Arbuckle, Frank Cornish, Eric Turner and Roman Phifer

Aikman, Norton, Lake and Turner would eventually be Pro Bowl bound, and Patton and Phifer each had rather meaningful careers in the NFL that went beyond a decade of service [one season for the Skins, Patton was on the field for every single defensive snap and so endeared himself to many of their faithful]. Lodish and Wahler played for a while, and Flipper temporarily had the record for most yards receiving in a game. Don't know what would have become of Henley owing to his off the field concaine conspiracy thing, and James Washington was so-so in the NFL but did have that one illustrious game in the Super Bowl.

The '87 team should have been national champions and probably the '88 team as well. But in '87 we couldn't beat 'SC and ended up playing a mediocre Florida team that had a freshman by the name of Emmitt Smith and we squeezed out that 20-16 victory. And in '88 we went 10-2, 6-2 in the conference [lost to WSU and 'SC]. Those were supposed to be the golden years that set us up and started the tradition but weren't. When I hear the Bruin Nation speak of our "tradition" I am otherwise reminded to simply look at the results of the NFL draft by year. Terry had 3 great recruiting classes and the NFL draft reflects that, and the drafts before tell us that we really never had a team of superior souls, and the drafts following tell us that while things were better after than before, they still never rose again to what should have been the golden years.

I otherwise think, well, look at the UCLA athletics department website. When you're best overall, why care all that much about the "monster" program in football? And with a single national championship to our credit in football, it's not like we can say that the football team is the reason why we lead all schools in NCAA championships. That might explain why there is no "monster" program.

Carrying over from the last thread...

I think I have the distinction of being the first person to see McDonald pitch in person. It was back in May (Mother's Day weekend) when he made a start in Visalia. I'd never heard of him, but his stuff impressed me. I assumed he was just doing well because he was old for the level, but finding out that he was recently converted back to pitching made him more intriguing. I hope he can make an impact next year, he has legitimate #3 starter stuff (maybe even #2 if he can make the leap).

I can't add much to the recall of others but it was Maury Wills' birthday (10/2). I think of Mota spinning off of those hard hitting Pirates teams of Stargell, Alou and Clendenon. I hope my memory is right but even if not the feeling is the same.

Being a Dodger fan, for me, has been a lot like being a UCLA football and baseball fan. I don't quite understand why we aren't a monster program, but I accept it.

I feel the exact same way, except for the "but I accept it" part. I don't understand why a team like the Red Sox can sign underperformers like JD Drew and Julio Lugo to catastrophic contracts, and everything works out just fine for them. But the Dodgers sign one little $45 million mistake to play centerfield, and it sinks the franchise.

The Dodgers should always be one of those "perennial contenders". We sorta used to be, but we're not anymore. I don't understand it, and I don't accept it.

Damn Barry Bonds and that pirouette!

14 I'm a Virginia Tech grad, but I always root for UCLA over USC because (a) I root for public vs. private. (b) UCLA has better unis, and (c) OJ went to USC. Of course, given Michael Vick's recent idiocy, maybe I should stop at (b).

17 Why? We have wiser heads than mine on this site, but this is my too-long analysis. Start with Al Campanis wrecking his career with stupid racial comments, followed by the Fred Claire years. Poor Fred never met a over-the-hill former All-Star he didn't like. (Fred would love Nomar and Gonzo). Then the sale to FOX, whose management of the LADs introduced veritable chaos. Some stability developed at the end thanks to Logan White and the still underrated Dan Evans (still my favorite modern GM), but then boom, a new owner again. Vlad went to the Angels because McCourt couldn't get his act together. Not knowing what to do, Frank fired Evans, hired DePo, fired DePo, and hired Ned. We now have a half veteran, half young homegrown team, which to me reflects confusion more than anything else.

When you look at it this way, this has been a franchise involved in constant and often destructive change for two decades. The "Dodger Way to Play" has mean all sorts of things at any given moment, but usually has translated into spending too much money on overpriced veterans, going back to Strawberry and Davis. What LA needs to succeed is stable ownership, stable management that relies as much as possible on homegrown products, and the avoidance of organizational panic. Whether Ned should remain as GM remains to be seen--I think he's weak on points two and three. Not all change is bad. But McCourt needs to hang on to White and Ng for all its worth, and someday Ng needs to move into the GM's office.

The 1977 season was the first one I really followed closely. So the memory of Mota's pinch hit in Game 3 of the NLCS is one that's still deeply embedded in my brain. I remember I convinced my mom I was too "sick" to go to my 2nd grade classes that day, thus allowing me to watch the game live. And I also recall the agony of watching Burt Hooton walk batter after batter after batter in the early innings. But Mota's heroics (as well as Davalillo's) saved the day.

Ah, the memories ...

Could it have been worse? The Padres signed Cassey Fossum to a minor league deal.

I let this darn discussion send me to Baseball-reference because my memories were getting hazy about Niedenfuer and his home runs. I was picturing two different series with Clark and Smith involved. When I found '85 the full horror returned to me. I am sure I repressed these memories to avoid pain. Two successive games - Two devastating late inning homers and I remember the Ozzie one was the most shocking to me. I can't even remember if they were walk-offs and don't care. It was a horrible fall to be a D's fan.

19 Nice post Ken. I agree about Dan Evans. He had absolutely nothing to work with because of the mess created by Malone. I think I saw some figures that the Dodgers spent less than all but a handful of teams in free agency during his tenure.

Then, if the rumors are true, he's primed to sign Vlad--arguably the best free agent signing of the last several years--but gets it taken away from him by Selig/McCourt, then gets scapegoated out of town. The Kevin Brown trade was a real nice move, as were many of his non-roster invitee moves.

But the Dodgers sign one little $45 million mistake to play centerfield, and it sinks the franchise.

--

I don't think this is true (I am no fan of Pierre by any means). The dodgers this year for me anyways have way more problems than just one light hitting/light fielding CF.

We started the year with 3-4-5 guys who were old and past their primes and all but one have not acting like 3-4-5 hole hitters at all and the one that is (Kent) is probably one of the weaker 4 hole hitters in baseball.

We started the year with 2/5 of our rotation as potential injury risks and 2 of 5 are not throwing anymore. The back ups have been pretty bad (Tomko, Hendu)as well.

The sinking of the franchise for me is Nomar, Gonzo and players like that instead of Ethier and Loney and Kemp playing daily and Chad throwing as a starter from day 1.

On another note I don't know when it was because I was so young, but one of my first at dodger stadium memories was the day Mota became the all time leading pinch hitter. I was lucky enough to be at that game.

http://tinyurl.com/yw2se9

Don Bankhead feature.

New posts at Screen Jam.

I was a huge Mota fan as he become a Dodger not long after I moved back here. What I remember most are the gazillion kids he had and it seemed like they all played pro ball but none could make it to the show. I counted 23 Mota's who played in the minors and another 6 who played in the majors. How many of them were related to Manny?

2
I was lucky enough to be in college so I caught that game on TV. To this day I agree with Larry Bowa, what was Luzinski doing in LF. Always seems strange to me how managers deviate from the norm during the playoffs.

27

They may not have made it to the show, but one of them made it to the Angels broadcast booth.

22 Those bombs given up by Niedenfuer were, without question, the most painful moments I've suffered through as a Dodger fan.

In the 9th inning of Game 5, I distinctly remember that as Ozzie Smith began his at bat, NBC flashed up a graphic saying that he had never hit a homer from the left side. I still blame NBC for jinxing the game for the Dodgers by showing that.

252. Greg Brock
250 I'm a very big Wynalda fan. He's a bit of a loudmouth, but he was a heck of a player, very smart, and says what's on his mind.

He absolutely torched Arena after Germany, as he should have. And he told Jim Rome to do something naughty, which Jim Rome deserved.

--

From last thread..

I just wanted to say that I played club soccer with Eric for 5 years, we were on the same High School team (he was a senior, I was a sophomore, Cobi Jones was on our team as well) and Eric and I were pretty good friends. I was his protege if you will, we both were strikers and we went 26-1 loosing to Mater Dei (me, cobi and our center mid were hurt, and eric was seriously tripled teamed) but in any case I can tell you guys the Eric you hear, see etc is the real Eric. He has always been the way he is. People can like it or not, no biggie, but he speaks his mind, is a bit of a hot head and can be very arrogant but usually not in an off putting way. He is a great guy though ,a family guy and I am proud of his accomplishments. The sad thing is he was not the best player I ever played with, there was alot of talent in Ventura County back when I played (85-90) and there was a kid named Billy Krantz who was smarter, faster, had better field vision and was a much better passer than Eric. Eric was the best pure goalscorer I ever played with or against though. Cobi at the time was not even one of the top 5 players on our High School team.

29

The modern day equivalent of Game 5 of the '85 NLCS would be if Juan Pierre hit a grand slam in the Bottom of the 9th in a similar series.

29
"Pain, you don't even know the meaning of pain."

The end of the 1982 season was more painful to me. And I think any of our readers alive in 1962 would tell you that that year was the nadir.

As for me, I got over 1985 pretty fast.

Don't worry Bob, 2002 more than made up for '82... at least for me... I was only a few months old in '82

You want abject depression? The end of 1966 was it for me. The Orioles have a chance? Inconceivable!

Eric Young picked Vin Scully for Dodger Face.

Bob I had another question: The records indicate that Games 5 and 6 of the '85 NLCS were played on Monday and Wednesday afternoon. How did NBC manage to get any kind of audience with the games on in the middle of the day?

I admit: a naive question.

36 - Imagine a world in which almost no one had cable ...

36
Some of us just skipped class in college.

Game 5 had a couple of rain delays. Or at least one. It took a while.

All the postseason games used to be during the day. That's just the way it was.

Now people want them back during the day, which to me, is a bad idea. It's sort of like the idea they used to have of making sports "pure" by forcing people to be amateurs. Which all it really did was force people to either cheat or force poor people to give up sports.

If you put all the baseball games on during the day, you are rewarding people who are in a position where they can skip work.

Also, until very recently, baseball tried to avoid having a playoff game on a Monday night at all costs because they thought they would get killed in the ratings by MNF.

38 On May 16, 1980 if you lived outside of Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Portland or Seattle, you probably saw a primetime lineup on CBS consisting of reruns of The Incredible Hulk, The Dukes of Hazzard, and Dallas. At 11:30, you could watch on tape delay, Game 6 of the 1980 Finals between the Los Angeles Lakers and Philadelphia 76ers.

Did you guys see the new Rosenthal article?
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7151542

An underachieving team typically produces clubhouse discontent, and the Dodgers are no different. Several players privately question Little's lineup shuffling and in-game strategy. Little clearly is relying too heavily on catcher Russell Martin, who has started 115 of 127 games.

"There's nothing I would like more than to have one set (lineup) every single day," Little says. "But it's been hard for us to establish that here this season."

38 Not so much a disagreement as the flip side of the coin:

Baseball may have an issue with its appeal, or lack thereof, to young fans. When the broadcast of a championship game begins at 8 -- first pitch, what, 8:30 or even 9:00 -- it means that the game ends after 11:00, even close to midnight, on a school night.

I don't think that's the only cause for baseball's young-fan problem, if it has one, which it may or may not... but if it does have that problem, the championship game time thing sure doesn't help.

I'm also not arguing that games should be moved to the daytime, but I am saying that keeping things as they are has a price.

40 - How I remember that. We were going to Carmel that weekend, and trying to get score updates of the Game 6 as best as we could. Didn't even think there was a chance the Lakers would win - we were all holding out hope for Kareem's return in Game 7. It wasn't until about 20 years later that I finally got to see Game 6 on ESPN Classic.

41 Interesting. The next question should be: Why has that been hard to establish?

32 I've attended one playoff game in my life. Game 5, 1985. I've only seen one home run that was more of a no-doubter than Clark's. Man did he hit it hard. Anyone needing proof that Lasorda was a grossly overrated manager who squandered his luck more often than not...Game 5.

But I agree with Bob, '82 was worse. I remember exactly where I was when I heard the call of Morgan's homer. I was in SF to watch the Friday game -- which the Dodgers won on a grand slam by Rick Monday and a CG shutout by Jerry Reuss -- and then had to hear the rest on TV/radio with my Giant-fan brother (luckily his deranged Giant fan children weren't born yet). I was, however, alone in my car making the turn onto Lincoln Blvd. on the eastern tip of Golden Gate Park when that fat tub of goo served it up. I almost crashed.

I remember walking home after school and pearing at TV's in houses during the walk home to get glimpses of the 74 series. At least that is what my memory says. Maybe it was just the playoffs.

39
Sadly they were right in that assumption.

Sorry to bring back the Wells talk, but is it confirmed that we're picking up Wells' bonuses?

41 "There's nothing I would like more than to have one set (lineup) every single day," Little says. "But it's been hard for us to establish that here this season."

When there's nothing I would like more than to get X, and I'm the one responsible for getting X, I tend to get it. Yesterday, I hadn't eaten all day, so I was really hungry. There was nothing I wanted more than to get a cheeseburger. What was I to do? I went to Fatburger. It really wasn't that hard at all.

The Daily news said we were negotiating the payment of each of the starts but that it would be for less then the Padres contract.
Instead of payment for each start they ought to pay him for the value of each start. I'd be happy to give him 200,000 for each start where he lasts 6 innings and gives up fewer then 4 runs. A kick in the butt for anything less.

48 Sure. But say you had a wife/girlfriend with you who said, "I'm also hungry, and I don't want Fatburger. What's more, I don't want you to eat Fatburger, because I think it's bad for you. I think we both should eat at Juan Pierre's Nothing But Salads. And if you don't, I'm breaking up with you right now."

It might not have been so easy.

Russell Martin has a .775 OPS in August and a .754 OPS since the All-Star Break. How much better would Martin do with more rest? How would playing Lieberthal more have improved the Dodgers' fortunes, since his numbers would bring down the team's overall offense at the position?

I know it's painful to see Martin out there so much, and it's an easy think to pick on, but I still haven't seen honest answers to these questions.

42 One of football's advantages over baseball as far as popularity is the schedule, short time frame, one game a week and on weekends. The Super Bowl, which rarely is even a good game, gets a prime spot, 6:30 EST.

Baseball's other competition as far as championship games, is the NBA, which gets it share of criticism for its game times. But its harder now for baseball to compete with other sports. Back in the '80s, there was only one college football game available on Saturday (yes kids, one) and when the Rams and Raiders were here, you got maybe 2 games on Sunday and of course, no Direct TV.

With so many choices, I think the networks and sponsors would want the largest possilbe audiences for their product and unfortunately, that is at night.

48
But you didn't have InNOut & Burger King complaining when you didn't choose their cheesburger. Nor did their agents call you and complain about screwing with the value of his clients.

27 - Manny! I have memories of him back in the summer of 75, though the Dodgers finished a distant second that year to the powerful Reds, me and friend were able to attend several Dodger games that summer with my Dad taking us and dropping us off where the Police Academy had a softball field before the ticket gate and his parents would pick us up from the game. Saw Manny on two successive Friday night games win games with a pinch hit in extra innings. I remember Scully used to say "Manny can get up on Christmas morning and hit a line single to right." Ahh the memories!!

Whoops, should have refreshed. Didn't mean to step on 50 toes.

48 Exactly. I was just about to post something similar.

Donnelly makes this comparison between looking for offense and looking for fish in a lake. Quoting Jim Leyland, he says the Dodgers have been trying to "change lakes" in search of more offense, shifting the lineup.

Wednesday night's lineup is full of fish! It is a well-stocked lake. Lots of trophies that day. But then they changed lakes the next day, figuring they could do better with Martinez in the lineup instead of Loney, and LuGo instead of Ethier.

Is Donnelly just dumb or is he lying? Little isn't putting the best offensive lineup out there more than once or twice a week, and it has nothing to do with catching fish, it has to do with kowtowing to veterans and their salaries.

Agh.

"Dodger Face" sounds like an insult heard in Bay Area schoolyards.

Ozzie Smith and Jack Clark were my first baseball memories, although I missed them because the games were played in the middle of the day on a weekday. That was the first year I really started to pay attention to baseball -- Pedro Guerrero became my favorite. I was in third grade. After school, I went to this lady's house who would babysit me until my parents got off work. No TV there. I remember my dad picking me up that day and before even saying hello, asking him if the Dodgers won. Before the words even got out of his mouth, I could tell the answer by the pained look on his face.

My biggest memory of Manny Mota was talking to him in the Dodger dugout before a Phillies game (I was a winner in the Dodger/Pepsi Skills contest so I had the run of the clubhouse and dugout before the game) I asked him if today was the day he was going to break the pinch hitting record. As he was answering a ball came whistling into the dugout and hit him in the back as he was reaching over my head to get something from the shelf on the wall of the dugout. He yelled out in pain and started yelling curses in Spanish and my friend and I quickly moved to the other end of the bench.

He got the record a few days later.

51
Why couldn't Leiberthal post a 750 OPS if given enough playing time that he wasn't a rust machine every time he starts? His career OPS is 774.

Were not talking some piece of scrap here.

51 To me it is not so much a question of how not resting Martin is hurting him or the team this season, but how it may hurt them in the future. Of course, proof is difficult to come by when it comes to this, but it is hard to argue that starting this many games behind the plate isn't going to take its toll on the young catcher...even if it doesn't show up this season. In fact it may never show up, but I see plenty of positives for resting him once in a while...especially if Loney and Kemp and Ethier and the other "kids" get "rested" even when they probably don't need it as much.

That Rosenthal article basically reads like this:

There was little the Dodgers could do at the deadline, and they probably did the right thing in hanging on to their young players.

It says, "It could be that 2007 turns out to be a season of transition, a season in which the Dodgers were both too young and too old to fulfill their expectations. If that's the worst-case scenario, so be it: The franchise could become a force for the next decade if it continues to produce players such as first baseman James Loney and outfielder Matt Kemp."

It concludes, "The present isn't so bad. The future remains bright. All teams should have the Dodgers' problems."

So why did I feel such tension while I was reading it?

Bob says, "Now people want them back during the day, which to me, is a bad idea."

Wouldn't it be OK to play day games on the weekends, though? There's nothing more useless than a playoff game on a Saturday or Sunday night. That's my main quibble.

I don't see anything wrong with playing the occasional playoff game on a weekday afternoon, either. We all have our nostalgic stories about skipping class to watch the games. Why deprive future generations of that?

Make that Lieberthal.

a funny post I stumbled on at baseball think factory while they were making fun of a horrible Andy Rooney baseball article.

-------It's a good thing there's not retrosheet for our lives.

Saturday, April 17, 1991 (N) at [REDACTED]

11 PM: GUAPO ENTERED PARTY AT 138 COLLEGE AVENUE; Guapo approac