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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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5) discussing politics
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2008: A Space Odyssey
2007-10-01 09:00
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Here's a working draft of the Dodger roster - emphasis on "working." There will be changes, from minor leaguers coming on and dropping off the 40-man, to possible major offseason transactions.

I'm expecting Jason Schmidt to start the season on the active roster, but with below-optimal effectiveness. As far as backup starting pitchers, it's pretty wide open, from buying out Randy Wolf and resigning him to a lower deal, to James McDonald coming up after Opening Day.

I truly don't expect Mark Hendrickson to return, because he has been pulled out of the Dodger starting rotation three times in 15 months, and he would command a salary of over $3 million - much more than any Dodger reliever. The Dodgers are not lacking for his type.

I've got Nomar Garciaparra listed as the starting third baseman because if nothing changed this offseason, I believe that's where he'd be. But I'd be quite surprised if he held that role by the end of May. In general, third base is the most obvious place for the Dodgers to attempt to improve themselves - though it is certainly way too soon to give up on Andy LaRoche.

I think Delwyn Young made a very strong impression on the Dodgers in September, and if the Dodgers don't acquire another outfielder, I think Young will compete with Andre Ethier for playing time. At a minimum, I see Young filling Olmedo Saenz's role as top pinch-hitter off the bench, along with Mark Sweeney.

Otherwise, the Dodgers' offseason starting lineup seems pretty obvious. ... The backup catcher and the back of the bullpen could be anyone. ... Jason Repko will have an uphill battle to stay with the team. ... Chin-Lung Hu, who has yet to draw a walk in the majors, will probably begin 2008 in Las Vegas.

The idea that Chad Billingsley, Matt Kemp, James Loney, Russell Martin and Andre Ethier will combine to earn roughly $2.5 million next season is a remarkable advantage for the Dodgers. Let's hope they don't boot it.

Corrections on the salaries below greatly welcomed:

Starting Pitchers (5)
*$500,000 Chad Billingsley
$10,000,000 Derek Lowe
$9,500,000 Brad Penny
$12,000,000 Jason Schmidt
$7,000,000 Esteban Loaiza
Total: $39,000,000

Bullpen (6)
*$1,750,000 Takashi Saito
*$500,000 Jonathan Broxton
*$1,000,000 Joe Beimel
*$550,000 Scott Proctor
*$1,000,000 Rudy Seanez
*$390,000 D.J. Houlton
Total: $5,190,000

Minor Leagues/Disabled List/Headed Out
Yhency Brazoban
Zach Hammes
Mark Hendrickson
Roberto Hernandez
Eric Hull
Jonathan Meloan
Hong-Chih Kuo
Mike Megrew
Greg Miller
Eric Stults
Chin-Hui Tsao
David Wells
Randy Wolf
James McDonald, etc.

Starting Lineup (8)
*$500,000 Russell Martin
*$400,000 James Loney
$9,000,000 Jeff Kent
$13,000,000 Rafael Furcal
*$400,000 Andre Ethier
$8,500,000 Nomar Garciaparra
$8,000,000 Juan Pierre
*$400,000 Matt Kemp
Total: $40,200,000

Bench (6)
*$400,000 Tony Abreu
*$390,000 Andy LaRoche
*$700,000 Chad Moeller
*$400,000 Jason Repko
*$1,100,000 Mark Sweeney
*$390,000 Delwyn Young
Total: $3,380,000

Minor Leagues/Disabled List/Headed Out
Luis Gonzalez
Mike Lieberthal
Shea Hillenbrand
Chin-Lung Hu
Ramon Martinez
Olmedo Saenz
Wilson Valdez

Also Paying ...
$1,500,000 Odalis Perez
$1,000,000 Brett Tomko
$500,000 Randy Wolf
$100,000 Mike Lieberthal
$50,000 Ramon Martinez
Total: $2,150,000

Working total: *$91,450,000

*Rough salary estimate

* * *

My special Wild-Card Playoff Day edition of Fungoes at SI.com focuses on the Colorado Rockies' storybook season - with the final chapter yet to be written.

October starts today. But October, for the Colorado Rockies, is both tantalizingly close and unfathomably far.

Somehow, the Rockies, who until Sunday hadn't been above third place in the NL West since April 7, who were 18-27 on May 21, who didn't climb out of last place for good until June 6, who as recently as two weeks ago were still in fourth ... somehow, those Rockies are one mere triumph (tantalizingly close) over 2007 NL Cy Young winner-to-be Jake Peavy (unfathomably far) from postseason play.

The NL West Bureau of SI.com's Fungoes has itself been intrigued by Colorado since the start of the season. "There's a wind blowing out of Denver -- one that perhaps should send a little shiver down the spines of the Rockies' National League West rivals," I wrote on April 2. "If (Garret) Atkins, (Todd) Helton, (Matt) Holliday and (Brad) Hawpe can just get their good games in sync with the pitchers, I can't help thinking that long-suffering Colorado, which actually found itself tied for first place on Independence Day last season, might finally follow through on its promise to bring us the most frigid October baseball we've ever seen."

That's not to say Colorado earned the faith on a consistent basis. ...

Comments (373)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-10-01 09:20:33
1.   Andrew Shimmin
MLB4U has Schmidt making fifteen million in 2008, plus a half million dollar bonus.
2007-10-01 09:22:54
2.   das411
Woah, Davey Lopes getting cheered by Philly fans at the rally today...now I have seen everything...
2007-10-01 09:25:57
3.   regfairfield
Furcal is making 17 million next year.
2007-10-01 09:28:57
4.   Humma Kavula
Interesting post on the working roster. You discuss Delwyn Young, who is out of options and must be on the 25-man or the Dodgers lose him... and you have him on the 25-man, which is a good call.

Question: is Kuo also out of options? If so, would the Dodgers put him on the 25-man if he is healthy? Does the DL count if heis not healthy (and: is he expected to be healthy on opening day, and if not, when is his expected return)? What is it expected that the Dodgers will do with him when he is ready to pitch?

In other words, would someone who knows more than I do please elaborate on Kuo's status?

2007-10-01 09:29:57
5.   Humma Kavula
3 Is he making $17 million, or is he making $13 million plus a $4 million payment on his signing bonus? That might be splitting hairs, but maybe not.
2007-10-01 09:30:14
6.   jasonungar07
I can see Coletti doing this.

1. Signining Andruw Jones. Yes the same guy who ops'ed lower than Gonzo last season is the same guy who has hit 125+ homeruns and 350rbi in the last three years. That SCREAMS middle of the order bat for Ned.
2. Moving Pierre to LF. Even he can't watch what he had to watch again in 08
3. Trading Either and another prospect for a starter. Of course he will try and trade Pierre first but no takers.
4. sign a bullpen guy. just for fun.
5. Bring back Sweeney, Lieberthal and Wolf.
6. Nomar starts at 3b. LaRoche has to earn the job.
7. Kent comes back/Abreau is back up.

2007-10-01 09:31:30
7.   regfairfield
5 That, but since he's being paid this year, I personally call it 17 million. I guess it depends if you had him down for nine million in 2006.

4 Kuo's out of options, since he's terrible out of the pen and has no spot in the rotation right now, he might get Jayson Werthed.

2007-10-01 09:32:27
8.   Improbable88
Looking at all this, it certainly seems like we'd have a legitimate chance of adding A-Rod just by offering him everything that came off the books last year.

Such a significant move would almost get Coletti off the hook for having to do anything else in the offseason.

Adding A-Rod's bat would certainly buy the team all the time they would need to assess areas of pitching weakness and fix them with minor trades by July.

Tantalizing. I hope Coletti doesn't botch it.

2007-10-01 09:35:06
9.   Andrew Shimmin
Kuo should still have another option year. He came up after the roster expansion in 2005, so that doesn't count. Young should still have two more option years left, since his call up last year was in September. He'd be rule 5 draft eligible, if he wasn't on the 40 man roster, but I don't think there'd be a problem storing him in AAA longer. Other than his not belonging there.
2007-10-01 09:35:25
10.   regfairfield
6 Aside from number six that all seems like things I would be happy with.
2007-10-01 09:36:03
11.   Disabled List
6 You had me until #3. Colletti has no intention of trading Slappy. Pierre had an absolutely typical Pierre year, and even improved himself in the SB department. If Colletti thought he was good before, he still thinks he's good now.
2007-10-01 09:36:11
12.   regfairfield
9 He was put on the 40 man just before Evans was fired. He burned an option in 2004.
2007-10-01 09:37:47
13.   D4P
Why are people happy with signing Jones? And moving Pierre to LF?
2007-10-01 09:37:50
14.   Humma Kavula
Who is the "he" in 12 , Young or Kuo?
2007-10-01 09:39:37
15.   Andrew Shimmin
I like it better when I'm not wrong.
2007-10-01 09:40:09
16.   Humma Kavula
If Young does in fact have options left, I predict that Colletti will find some veteran bench guy to take his roster spot and Young will start at Vegas. No, it shouldn't happen, but it;s a plan that seems Collettish.... after all, has Young knocked down the door?
2007-10-01 09:41:34
17.   regfairfield
14 Kuo.

13 Because Jones was absurdly unlucky last year and can now be had for below market value. Pierre moving to left is fine because if he's going to play, he should be in the place where he'll do the least damage and there's no good replacement corner outfielders out there. If we can ever get rid of him, he'll be easier to replace than if we didn't have a center fielder. Plus, Pierre/Jones/Kemp gives us the vaunted three center fielders defense.

2007-10-01 09:42:44
18.   regfairfield
16 He hasn't done anything in my mind to prove he's not Craig Monroe. Ripping up AAA at age 25 with a ton of strikeouts doesn't mean much to me.
2007-10-01 09:43:31
19.   D4P
below market value

Boras is confused.

2007-10-01 09:44:18
20.   Andrew Shimmin
16- I'm probably wrong about Young, too. I forgot that he was 20 when he signed. He would have had to have been protected after 2004, right? Which means he's out of options just like you said.
2007-10-01 09:45:33
21.   Humma Kavula
There is no way that Colletti is going to try to trade Pierre. He put up Juan Pierre numbers. Colletti has got to be happy with his production.

I would be very surprised if Colletti signed a CF, Jones or Hunter. He isn't looking for a CF. He will be looking for a LF and a 3B and a SP. He is looking at both free agents and trades and any player he has is expendible for what he perceives as the right move.

I don't think he would contemplate moving Pierre to LF. I hope I'm right.

2007-10-01 09:46:43
22.   regfairfield
Here's the 40 man in December 2003. As a fun game, you can count how many of these guys are still on the Dodgers.

http://tinyurl.com/3cx98y

2007-10-01 09:47:14
23.   regfairfield
20 Yep.
2007-10-01 09:53:34
24.   Humma Kavula
22 How usual/unusual is it for a team to turn over its entire 40-man in four calendar years?
2007-10-01 09:58:48
25.   sweepstakes
6 I think Pierre is movable but would require that we eat at least half of his contract for the next four years.

17 I believe A.Jones is a Boras client which never translates to a bargain. I hope Colleti passes on him; he's a player on the decline offensively and defensively.

Regarding Delwyn Young, he belongs on the 25 man roster. What are the thoughts on his defensive merit? On the offensive front, he flat out smokes the ball.

2007-10-01 10:01:08
26.   El Lay Dave
Add K/Guo: It was reported that he started throwing again on Friday. That would seem to be a schedule that leads to being ready in the spring, but one can never be sure about an elbow that's been operated on four times. Given his injury history, does anyone think there are other teams that would bring him in? Aren't the Dodgers likely to be able to bring him to camp on a minor-league contract?
2007-10-01 10:02:17
27.   Andrew Shimmin
21- Yeah, but which LF would Colletti like? He can't really sign Bonds. Dunn wouldn't seem to be his type. Holliday, Soriano, Lee, Byrnes, and Matsui aren't going anywhere. So, which of Burrell, Manny, or Alou is he going to go after? After watching LuGo's defense kill him all year, I don't know how eager he'd be for any of them.
2007-10-01 10:06:17
28.   regfairfield
25 He's terrible defensively.

26 Not unless they waive him and no one else claims him, which seems unlikely.

2007-10-01 10:06:52
29.   JoeyP
Moises Alou would be a nice player to sign to a 1yr deal.

You can platoon him with Ethier, he's put up good-great numbers the last 4 years, he wont kill the budget. He wont complain about playing time.

The only downside is he's 42.

2007-10-01 10:08:15
30.   El Lay Dave
25 You don't have to have much defense merit to play LF, esp. if you pack heavy lumber, e.g., Manny Ramirez, Barry Bonds, Adam Dunn, Pat Burrell

As regfairfield pointed out, Young's K/BB ratio doesn't bode well. Career AAA 2.77:1 (2.6:1 career minors), with no improvement one year to the next. (But he did tattoo that Zito curve that stayed high halfway up the pavilion seats like he was the next Toy Cannon.)

2007-10-01 10:14:56
31.   El Lay Dave
28 K/Guo's injury history will scare off a lot of teams. Being a lefty will help a little. Still, he's a year older than Tsao was last year and Tsao went unclaimed. Kuo 45 career games; Tsao 30 before this year.
2007-10-01 10:21:51
32.   GoBears
If he'd be willing to pay for Manny Ramirez, then he'd be better off spending that dough on ARod.

I'd be shocked if Colletti were to go after Dunn or Burrell. Both guys are 3TO hitters, exactly the type that Colletti disdains (think Betemit, only more so).

Alou sounds more likely, though a horrible idea. He'd be much better off just playing Kemp and Ethier every day, with Repko/Young as backups. Of course, that won't happen. Can't happen. Must trade for has-beens the fans have heard of.....

2007-10-01 10:30:29
33.   Ken Noe
27 Manny plays for the Bosox, which is always a positive for the owners, since they've heard of him.
2007-10-01 10:32:51
34.   KG16
I have a very simple plan for Colletti in going into this off season - if a guy wore a Giants uniform during his career (playing or coaching), then don't even think of signing him for anything... unless it's Orel to be manager.

I'll be honest though, I'm watching this off season like I watch one of the Nightmare on Elm Street sequels - I have a pretty good idea of what is going to happen, I know it's likely to be ugly, but I'm just not sure how, exactly, it happens.

2007-10-01 10:45:43
35.   CarlosDeC
I believe we have 2 major areas of need. 3b and LF. Unfortunitaly I am not sold on LaRoche or Either as solid solutions i feel comfortable with for Opening Day. Either is a good player, but I think he is a 3rd outfielder at best. (probally a very good 4th) The problem is we already have a 3rd outfielder whowe are stuck with for 4 more years!! We cant have two guys with so so pruduction and just hope that 23 year old Kemp produces for both of them. We need someone better.

In terms of 3rd base, I am sorry I am NOT a believer of Andy LaRoche. While I agree with Jon that it is too early to give up on him, I also believe that just because he is a product of Logan White, and just because we have had a lot of success recently with our kids, this does NOT mean everyone will be successful. In fact I would argue that because of the recent success we have had, we are probally due for some kids that probally wont pan out. That is just the way the game is.

If we can get a productive outfilder and a productive 3rd baseman ( no not nomar) I think we will be fine. But if we do nothing for sure we are looking at another 81 and 81 year.

2007-10-01 10:48:05
36.   jasonungar07
If Pierre is to remian in CF our biggest hole is in CF then. Not 3b or Lf. IMO
2007-10-01 10:50:07
37.   bigcpa
25 http://tinyurl.com/3arqkk

A. Jones led the majors in THT's Revised Zone Rating for CF's and was 3rd in out-of-zone plays. Doesn't appear to be declining defensively.

I'm with reg 17 that he was unlucky this year offensively. His HR/FB dropped from 22% to 13% which would put him right back at 42 HR. This is what happened to Beltran in 2005 and he bounced right back to career norms. Jones is a year younger than Soriano and the better player. $15M/yr looks like a steal for Jones.

2007-10-01 10:53:05
38.   Jon Weisman
35 - I think it's too soon to give up on LaRoche not because of Logan White, but because his credentials are better than some of the guys already succeeding. He has shown flashes of talent in a 2007 that rarely afforded him much playing time. He fielded well and didn't have huge holes in his swing that I could see. My only concern with him right now is his health.

Logan White is the least of it. It's too soon to give up on LaRoche because ... it just is. Giving up on a player at his age, with his stats and the way he looks on the field, would be crazy. Doesn't mean A-Rod wouldn't be better, but LaRoche's potential is nothing to sneeze at.

2007-10-01 10:54:39
39.   blue22
Hopefully there is some faith in the FO in Nomar to be able to play third next year (so that someone like Lowell is not brought in), but not so much faith that they trade LaRoche. I'm skeptical that even Ned would feel comfortable with a Nomar/Geoff Blum (or any other platoon-able 3B) next year with no LaRoche around to salvage the position.

Ethier finished with an .802 OPS, which would've ranked him just above Gonzo (.793 OPS) and -surprise- Jason Bay (.746 OPS) among regular NL OFers. I think they can do better here.

2007-10-01 10:56:15
40.   Jon Weisman
Thanks for the salary corrections - will update those tonight.
2007-10-01 10:57:41
41.   D4P
FJM is telling me that BP's computer did a good job of predicting this year's standings. I'm not a subscriber, so I can't look a the predictions. But I do remember them predicting a low-70s win total for the White Sox, which drew a predictably incredulous response from Ozzieball/Erstad types.
2007-10-01 10:58:22
42.   D4P
Thanks for the salary corrections - will update those tonight

You might also provide a forum for us to jam about what we saw on the screen over the weekend.

2007-10-01 10:58:26
43.   GoBears
Since Pierre is a fixture in CF and at the top of the lineup, I'd be willing to trade Furcal in order to give ARod a place to play while keeping LaRoche at 3rd. Yes, it would be selling low, since Furcal is bound to be better, and I'd rather move Furcal to CF and dump Slappy, but the latter will never happen, so I'd say send Furcal's expiring contract to a team that gets his true value and get a back of the rotation starter in return.
2007-10-01 11:01:08
44.   D4P
a back of the rotation starter in return

Loaiza is a back of the rotation starter.

Way back.

2007-10-01 11:08:52
45.   underdog
28 Young's terrible defensively at second base in particular. I thought he's a more than adequate outfielder however, which is where the Dodgers would play him if he makes the club...
2007-10-01 11:11:25
46.   MikeB
I still don't believe A-Rod will leave NY - there are just too many reasons for him not too, but - if the Yankees don't keep him, Boston or the Mets will pony up the cash.

If the Dodgers have X amount of dollars to spend -- or X number of prospects to trade this off-season -- then I prefer they try to land a true #1 starter in his prime or perhaps two legitimate #2/#3 types. Who is available?

2007-10-01 11:17:34
47.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
Does anybody else think signing A-rod is a bad idea (or at least an inefficient use of payroll)?

A-rod is the best player in the game, and would be a huge help to the Dodgers, but he is coming off a career year. He is not likely to produce at this level again, but he will be paid based on this year. Would you pay 30mm/year for his 2006 or 2004 performances?

Again, he'd be a huge upgrade, but he will be extremely overpriced. I think we'd be better off going with Andruw Jones and trying to get rid of Pierre.

2007-10-01 11:19:21
48.   Robert Fiore
In other news, the Dodgers do have a Fan Appreciation Day gift for everyone: A ticket price increase!
2007-10-01 11:20:04
49.   Jon Weisman
42 - Done.
2007-10-01 11:20:34
50.   underdog
39 It's funny you mention Bay, because I'd heard rumors he may be available from the Pirates. I used to like him but he seems to have tailed off. If our outfield was Kemp, Ethier and Bay, I wouldn't complain however. But of course, trading Pierre isn't gonna happen.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-10-01 11:20:59
51.   LogikReader
Based on my FA List, the following are available:

Schilling
Chacon
Rodrigo Lopez
Lohse
Byrd
Silva
Kenny Rogers

and then way down the list...

Livan Hernandez
Fogg
Piniero
Lieber
Jason Jennings

Which starters look like good options? Which ones look like a joke?

2007-10-01 11:22:39
52.   Linkmeister
Young played what, parts of two games at 2B? He played several in LF and didn't embarrass himself, although he didn't have much opportunity to show off what kind of arm he has.

I like Ethier. He's a good solid outfielder who's a couple of years away from his prime.

LaRoche looked exceptional on defense and could improve quite a bit on offense, seems to me.

2007-10-01 11:22:39
53.   underdog
Fogg looked good at times, especially against the Dodgers in the last match-up, but the others don't excite me in any way. I loathe Curt Schilling.
2007-10-01 11:23:59
54.   blue22
50 - It was ToyCannon (I think?) that took Plaschke's requirements for Kemp's replacement and derived the name of "Jason Bay". He's got two more years before he's a free agent, and is reasonably paid. It will be interesting to see if the Pirates new GM decides to build around Bay, or start over.
2007-10-01 11:24:57
55.   rockmrete
I was thinking Arod, but A Jones might be the better fit.

Being commited to one more year each of Nomas, and Furcal, with potential replacements in the wings, and no one that the FO seems to think can handle CF in the system.
Of course it still leaves us with the Pierre issue.

2007-10-01 11:25:41
56.   blue22
51 - Maybe take a flier on Pineiro. Stay away from the rest, especially Kyle Lohse.
2007-10-01 11:26:14
57.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
Given how this year turned out, I would not be surprised to see Ned change his strategy (i.e., from fast/average to slow/power). I could see him making a push for Dunn.
2007-10-01 11:27:46
58.   MikeB
There's a lot of high mileage arms on that list. Not sure any of them could qualify for a "certified" resale program though.
2007-10-01 11:29:03
59.   Xeifrank
Have faith in Guo, he will be back pitching with the Dodgers next spring. It might be as a righthanded pitcher though. :)
vr, Xei
2007-10-01 11:29:05
60.   blue22
57 - Dunn's not a free agent...yet. I believe the Reds hold a $13M option on him. Coming off his big year, they'll probably hold on to him.
2007-10-01 11:29:57
61.   MikeB
53 - Baseball Prospectus profiled Josh Fogg today. Referred to him as "someone who has struggled as staff filler for poor teams his entire career."
2007-10-01 11:30:07
62.   silverwidow
In terms of 3rd base, I am sorry I am NOT a believer of Andy LaRoche.

Did you give up on Loney after his first call-up in April 2006?

2007-10-01 11:30:42
63.   underdog
59 Because his left arm will finally have fallen off? ;-) I'm rooting for him, but am of little faith.
2007-10-01 11:31:17
64.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
I believe in LaRoche!
2007-10-01 11:31:36
65.   regfairfield
31 Tsao is different because he was non tendered, not waived. When you get non tendered, you effectively become a free agent, waivers means that every single team in baseball can claim him.
2007-10-01 11:32:32
66.   MikeB
57 - Dunn's heading into the DL in the AL phase of his career. He's an awful OF. The only other option is 1B and I believe that position has been taken.
2007-10-01 11:37:09
67.   Improbable88
46 , 47 - I don't see why the Dodgers couldn't make a financial run at A-Rod. They certainly have more room than the two New York teams, and you of course have to figure a significant percentage of those 3.8 million fans wouldn't mind purchasing an A-Rod jersey or two to help offset the potentially astronomical cost.

And honestly, with the young stable of studs this team has, I think the 2004/2006 A-Rod numbers would fit it quite nicely.

Pierre isn't going anywhere and Ethier and Kemp with full years under their belts will produce nicely.

I go (for broke) for A-Rod.

2007-10-01 11:39:20
68.   Improbable88
*I say go (for broke) for A-Rod, that is.
2007-10-01 11:39:45
69.   MikeB
67 - Difficult to grasp the concept that the best player in baseball may end up on his fourth team - while in his prime and after winning the AL MVP. What a world.
2007-10-01 11:39:51
70.   blue22
67 - It would certainly help if Ned was able to dump Furcal and/or Nomar (or Kent?) to clear a little more room.
2007-10-01 11:39:55
71.   Linkmeister
I got a laugh out of Saito's reason for not immediately returning to Japan: to get his California driver's license.

Beware the DMV, Sammy!

2007-10-01 11:42:18
72.   Xeifrank
67. The Yankees have some leverage in signing ARod since the Rangers will be paying a hefty part of his salary in NY. 2008 or 2009 for that matter should be a golden opportunity for the Dodgers to bring in a high priced impact player (Schmidt and Pierre don't count). With all the youngins and their low salaries, we'd only have to jettison one of our overpriced vets to really be able to make a splash. Of all the high priced names floating out there, ARod would be the only one I'd bite on. Sadly, I don't think Pierre, Nomar or Kent are going anywhere, besides maybe a monster truck rally or babies r us.
vr, Xei
2007-10-01 11:44:11
73.   MikeB
Let's trade Juan Pierre for Barry Zito.
2007-10-01 11:45:29
74.   blue22
72 - Yanks lose the Rangers money if ARod opts out. That's why Cashman came out so early and said if ARod opts out, he's not coming back (I still think that's a bluff).

Unless the Yanks bowl Boras over with an extension offer, you have to think he'll opt ARod out. There's probably 5 teams that could realistically have a shot at him.

2007-10-01 11:45:30
75.   D4P
Let's trade Juan Pierre for Barry Zito

And then release Zito.

2007-10-01 11:48:24
76.   wireroom
Taking a shot for A-Rod or maybe Tori Hunter seem like the only reasonable things to do. Even Vin Scully was quoted as saying he was baffled that this club didn't make the postseason. with experience the young guys plus a good signing for a young stable player like Hunter or A-Rod will put them over the top.
2007-10-01 11:48:59
77.   LogikReader
I'd still rather have Zito than Pierre. At least he only affect one of 5 games, and he'd make a good mascot
2007-10-01 11:49:13
78.   LogikReader
he = he'd
2007-10-01 11:50:00
79.   JoeyP
Trading Furcal should not be that difficult since Furcal's in the final year of his deal.

I wonder if the Dodgers could trade Furcal to the Cubs for Mark Prior?

Instead of it being a straight salary dump, the Dodgers could get back something useful. The Cubs management might have given up on Prior as it is.

2007-10-01 11:51:46
80.   MikeB
75 - I realize we would be trading one bad contract for another but I believe Zito would have more value for the Dodgers than Pierre. Barry is healthy, not as old (30) as David Wells, and would benefit from pitching in Dodger Stadium. He's not a #1, but he's not Hendrickson either. He's due for a bounce back and is already familiar with the NL West hitters.
2007-10-01 11:52:06
81.   wireroom
I like Furcal a lot at shortstop when he isn't playing injured. great effort and a fine hitter
2007-10-01 11:54:33
82.   underdog
Mark Prior is so much damaged goods (and the Cubs may even release him) he makes Furcal look like Atlas. Furcal will rebound back to his normal very solid season next year, I wouldn't be in a hurry to give him up unless a) we're getting A-Rod fersure, and b) we got something really solid in return. Might as well trade for Richard Pryor.
2007-10-01 11:54:48
83.   JoeyP
For all the flak over JD Drew's performance in Boston, he ended up with at least so-so numbers--not a complete bust:

.270/.373/.423
.796 OPS

Replacing Drew's numbers with Pierre's hurt the Dodgers offense immensely this past off-season.

2007-10-01 11:54:49
84.   blue22
76 - I'm not sure there's anyone I want less than Torii Hunter this offseason. Mike Lowell and Kyle Lohse, maybe.

Hunter will be very expensive, is fading defensively and has always been pretty overrated offensively. Luckily, I think him going to Texas is a match made in heaven.

2007-10-01 11:57:32
85.   underdog
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/50033
2007-10-01 11:58:21
86.   ishXdavid
Isn't 2008 Johan Santana's walk year? I haven't heard any recent developments of the Twins signing him to an extension. What's the possiblity of the Dodgers swinging a deal of prospects and Pierre to the Twins who'll want young talent and a replacement for Hunter? Kershaw will be the jewel prospect and we'll probably have to part with two youngsters on the 40-man, but in a division that features Jake Peavy, Brandon Webb, Chris Young, and Matt Cain I find the Dodgers frontline staff lacking.
2007-10-01 11:58:33
87.   wireroom
I just think having a young hitter like HUnter is going to work better than trying to sign Jones or trade for Manny. Both of those guys are injury prone these days and fading more than Hunter who is a great Center Fielder. I saw a lot of singles go for doubles this year hit to left or center. That will really kill a pitcher and his game.
2007-10-01 12:00:04
88.   fanerman
I'm on the A-Rod or nobody boat.
2007-10-01 12:00:10
89.   wireroom
I woudl rather let Kershaw come up and develop and be dominant for the Dodgers rather than Santana who may end being another Schmidt for us
2007-10-01 12:00:10
90.   JoeyP
Prior might have been ruined by Dusty.
He threw 234 innings in 2003 at age 22.

He'd be the perfect upside purchase though, given his age and previous ability. I was just throwing out a name if the Dodgers wanted to find a taker for Furcal, and the Cubs would be one IMO since they wanted him so badly earlier.

I'd only deal Furcal if it meant getting A-Rod anyways. If not, why not let Furcal play his final season in LA and then re-evaluate what he's worth after the 2008 year.

2007-10-01 12:01:30
91.   Andrew Shimmin
Hunter's 32. That's not old, but it isn't young, either.
2007-10-01 12:03:45
92.   regfairfield
89 Why would Santana be anymore likely to get hurt than Kershaw? The man has been the best pitcher in baseball the last three years. Kershaw is not going to be that good.

90 Prior looks like he's completely finished. I love giving damaged good a try but even I wouldn't waste my time with him.

2007-10-01 12:04:09
93.   underdog
The Santana to the Dodgers trade rumors have been the point of discussion here for awhile, and on MLBTraderumors.com, too. Kemp and Kershaw were often the names tossed about, which seems much higher a price than the names thrown around from other teams. Way too high a price for a pitcher's walk year, even if he's one of the best in baseball. If the Dodgers could sign him to extension and didn't have to give up Kershaw, I'd consider it.

90 Well, perhaps - as I said, it's also possible he could be had cheaply or the Cubs could release him after giving up, in which case he'd be worth a flyer. But not at the cost of a great player.

2007-10-01 12:04:52
94.   MikeB
A-Rod on the Dodgers would be great - but I don't believe it will happen. In fact, I doubt the Dodgers are even among the top 5 places Boras & A-Rod are looking at.
1. NYY
2. NYM
3. Boston
4. Anahiem
5. Chicago (NL or AL)
2007-10-01 12:05:37
95.   underdog
92 Some of the Dodgers brass didn't think Pedro Martinez would be that good either. Santana's wonderful, but I still wouldn't give up the #1 pitching prospect in all of baseball for him, especially if it only meant one season.
2007-10-01 12:05:51
96.   wireroom
Yeah I guess I am on the A-Rod or nobody boat as well. Just let Kemp, Pierre Ethier/Young handle it out there. Make a slick move for a good pitcher somewhere.
2007-10-01 12:07:19
97.   Robert Daeley
83 I'd say Juan Pierre's numbers more properly are compared to Kenny Lofton's numbers:

KL 2006: .301/.360/.403/.763 (SB 32, CS 5)
JP 2007: .293/.331/.353/.684 (SB 64, CS 15)

And for comparison:
KL 2007: .296/.367/.414/.781 (SB 23, CS 7)

JD Drew 2006 was replaced by a rotating platoon of people who didn't match up collectively.

JD 2006: .283/.393/.498/.891

Heck JD Drew didn't replace JD Drew's number.

JD 2007: .270/.373/.423/.796

So maybe we should have kept Kenny Lofton. ;)

2007-10-01 12:08:17
98.   jasonungar07
Well if Kershaw gets hurt its 300k, if Santana gets hurt it's 20 million X 5 and two top prospects.

Joey, forget the offense, the defense between the two would have saved half the runs Pierre scored.

I like the idea of having Furcal and Lowe both in contract years.

2007-10-01 12:12:56
99.   Andrew Shimmin
If the Mets signed A-Rod, where would he play?
2007-10-01 12:14:42
100.   Sam DC
Wright has said he would move positions, presumably to second base.

http://tinyurl.com/2y5vsu

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-10-01 12:16:39
101.   rockmrete
WOW Wright at second, and ARod on third.
2007-10-01 12:16:42
102.   goofus
Young plays second base (sort of); could he be converted to third base? If he could back up 2nd, 3rd, and outfield, that would be a good argument for keeping him on the 25 man roster...
2007-10-01 12:16:54
103.   regfairfield
87 Hunter gives you a .330 on base percentage and average defense. He's not worth the superstar money he's going to get.
2007-10-01 12:17:41
104.   blue22
95 - Wasn't Greg Miller circa 2003 about equivalent to Kershaw now?

And Santana isn't represented by Boras. I don't think an extension is out of the question.

2007-10-01 12:17:52
105.   MikeB
99 - Anywhere Scott B. wants him too! Seriously, I think they would figure something out. Signing A-Rod would go a long way towards forgetting and forgiving the past three weeks in Met-land.
2007-10-01 12:20:41
106.   das411
105 - Scapegoaing Jose Reyes might go a long way too.... (said the Phillies phan)
2007-10-01 12:21:15
107.   regfairfield
104 And Edwin Jackson. I love Kershaw, but projecting him to be better than Johan seems to be a bit enthusiastic.
2007-10-01 12:22:30
108.   regfairfield
Bear in mind I'm not advocating trading Kershaw for one year of Johan, just reminding people that this is the best pitcher in baseball we're talking about, not a guy in his decline like Scmidt.
2007-10-01 12:24:35
109.   StolenMonkey86
99 - Wright has said he'd move over to 2nd base.
2007-10-01 12:24:39
110.   Andrew Shimmin
I'm with Jon, here. Why should Colletti dump Young? Even if he isn't better than Monroe, even if he can't play any position all that well, the team still needs a 4th OFer. I'd rather see Young PHing than Sweeney, too. Unless Colletti goes hog wild acquiring outfielders, just so he can release them in June, for no particular reason, I don't see why Young's spot should be in jeopardy.
2007-10-01 12:25:37
111.   JoeyP
I wouldnt trade Kerhshaw/Kemp either for Santana. The Dodgers can just sign Santana after 2008.

Adding Santana for the 2008 season likely will not ensure a playoff appearance (the offense is still the main problem), so why not just play out the 2008 season, keep the kids, and add Santana for 2009.

2007-10-01 12:28:57
112.   StolenMonkey86
If we could trade Kent, could we get Nomar to play 2nd?

Because then we could play LaRoche or A-Rod at 3rd and when Nomar gets hurt, Abreu at 2nd. After watching Kent this year, I have much lower standards defensively for 2nd base.

2007-10-01 12:30:31
113.   blue22
111 - Colletti is probably feeling the heat a bit from McCourt. If Colletti feels his job may be at risk with another .500 season and $100M+ payroll, might he be more aggressive to win in '08?
2007-10-01 12:30:33
114.   ToyCannon
Ron Cey was not a productive 3rd baseman until he was 25. At the age of 25 he was the starting 3rd baseman in 1973 and posted on OPS+ of 104, which I expect La Roche could better when he finally gets the gig full time.

Andy La Roche turned 24 in Aug. Other then his health I don't understand "I'm not sold on Andy La Roche".

The number of hitters who hit 30 or more home runs in 2006 and how they declined in 2007 is staggering. I'll be updating the list that HQ presented last week, but when they published the list, there had been a 29% decline in production in home runs from those hitters. That will drop a little when whatever home runs hit this week are added, but it will still be a sharp decline. What Arod did while everyone else was declining is even more amazing.

That was quite a bomb D Young hit last night. It went about as deep into the pavilion as you'll ever see.

2007-10-01 12:33:31
115.   dzzrtRatt
111 Exactly right. Santana is a one-year-rental, and despite his brilliance, he solves a non-existent problem. We'll want him just as much in 2009, when we don't have to compete in a player auction for him, just a money auction.

For '08, sign a FA hitter, A-Rod or Jones, and if you can't do that, do nothing. I'm ready to have a year like Arizona and Colorado have just had. I'd rather have a fumbling first half and an intense, promising second half than have a year like the last few, where we hang around the margins of the pennant race, but clearly can't compete beyond the last week or the first round of the playoffs.

If Kent and Lowe don't like that scenario, they've got value in the trade market. We should only keep them if we get a difference-making offensive FA.

2007-10-01 12:35:29
116.   JoeyP
112--The Cardinals seem like a team that may want Jeff Kent. They are older, with some established guys probably on the downside of their career. They need a 2nd basemen.

Not sure what the Dodgers could use that the Cardinals have, but it could be a start.

2007-10-01 12:35:35
117.   KG16
I'm thinking a little outside the box here, but let me just ask... are we sure that Colletti won't shop Pierre?

All the quotes as of late seem like mixed messages. They want a power hitter, they want to build around the kids, they think a couple of the kids could be power hitters in a year or two, they'll move anyone if it's the right deal.

Maybe he won't shop Pierre, but I could see him looking at offers for him. And while he's not well liked around here, there are a lot of old schoolers who will like some of Pierre's numbers - of course, any scouting report should say the same thing, "Run away, run away, run away!"

2007-10-01 12:38:14
118.   MikeB
Why not move La Roche to 2B? He was a SS in HS. He's a lot less likely to be hurt playing 2B than Nomar. And if we were to sign A-Rod as an FA - that would give Colletti the option to move Kent's salary a team closer to a team closer to a rodeo.
A-Rod and Nomar on the Dodgers together after A-Rod has played along side of Jeter! Remember when the argument was which of the three was the best SS in the AL?
2007-10-01 12:38:35
119.   Improbable88
114 - Plus, he comes to the plate to the Karate Kid tournament montage music. That alone buys him another year in my book. I mean, look how great Danil LaRussa turned out!

"You're the best (CRASH!) Arooound! Nothing's gonna ever keep you down!
You're the best (CRASH!) Arooound!"

2007-10-01 12:40:05
120.   MikeB
118 - "to a team closer to a rodeo." Too much peanut butter on my sandwich today.
2007-10-01 12:42:00
121.   Bluebleeder87
Jill Weisleder (Dodger Photographer/Dodgers.Com) needs to get her Baseball players right, on the photo gallery she says Tony Abreu hit a homerun on sundays game, with a picture of D.Young!?!? WHAT!
2007-10-01 12:42:14
122.   ishXdavid
+1 LaRoche has the BEST walk-up music of anyone on the team.
2007-10-01 12:44:49
123.   Improbable88
122 - Far and away. Far and away.
2007-10-01 12:46:08
124.   StolenMonkey86
111- Depends on who we get for trading Derek Lowe. And if we don't trade Lowe, if we immediately extend Santana, then I could potentially buy that (If we don't trade Lowe, a rotation of Santana, Penny, Lowe, Billingsley, Schmidt would be really amazing). If we're down Kemp, we probably sign Andruw Jones (who will probably not put up another .248 BABIP) or Adam Dunn, or see if management really likes Delwyn Young.

I'd much rather trade LaRoche than Kemp at this point because of the injury thing. I don't know how much I'd trade either, but if we can pull off signing A-Rod as well, it could work. With a really high payroll.

I don't know if I'd trade for Santana without definitely signing A-Rod this year.

2007-10-01 12:50:15
125.   blue22
124 - I don't know if I'd trade for Santana without definitely signing A-Rod this year.

I love the offseason. I just do. It's awesome.

2007-10-01 12:50:17
126.   StolenMonkey86
118 - In the meantime, you have to play Nomar somewhere, until he plays poorly enough to be a fulltime bench player. It's more dignified if he's on the DL, I guess.

The other option is to trade Furcal and play A-Rod at short. Then Nomar is only holding Abreu's place, assuming, of course, that Kent has already gone to the AL somewhere.

2007-10-01 12:50:45
127.   Foolsgold
If Dodgers want team chemistry, Russell Martin needs to step up as a team leader.
2007-10-01 12:54:21
128.   Sam DC
Right now, 24 team fan sites are buzzing with talk of how A-Rod solves all their problems and getting Santana would change the next five years of history.

In a month, it'll be 31.

2007-10-01 12:55:46
129.   fanerman
128 But the Dodgers at least make the first cut of "teams that could actually afford him."
2007-10-01 12:59:41
130.   Improbable88
127 How long does it take for Russell to get the captain nod?

Who was the last Dodger captain? I can't even think of one after Pee Wee Reese. There has to have been one, right?

2007-10-01 13:00:31
131.   StolenMonkey86
116 - While I'm in dreamland, suppose they decide they want Pierre in center field too, because Edmonds is banged up, but Pierre could provide the consistency of chasing a consecutive games streak. We could take Edmonds off their hands, and someone else minor and random. I like the idea of at least a minor salary purge so we can keep the payroll at the current level with A-Rod. I also like the idea of not having to play Juan Pierre every day, and Edmonds won't play every day either.
2007-10-01 13:02:54
132.   Bluebleeder87
I'd much rather trade LaRoche than Kemp at this point because of the injury thing.

Not to mention his lack of work ethic, but to be honest I'm still holding back judgment on that, Diamod Lung did make you raise your eye brows after reading what he said about La Roche though.

2007-10-01 13:04:00
133.   Bluebleeder87
130

I've heard it was Davey Lopes, I'm pretty sure it was him.

2007-10-01 13:07:55
134.   Sam DC
Bob Timmermann -- falling down on the job. http://tinyurl.com/2akudm
2007-10-01 13:10:30
135.   Andrew Shimmin
I think it's much more likely that LaRoche is an idiot (for telling a reporter that he'd skipped his back exercises, one day) than possessed of a poor work ethic (for skipping them, once).
2007-10-01 13:10:48
136.   regfairfield
132 Juan Pierre has a great work ethic.

I'm the biggest LaRoche fanboy in the world and I'd take Kemp over him too. Even so, both of those guys should still be considered untouchable.

2007-10-01 13:15:25
137.   paranoidandroid
Jon: I think we owe Tomko a one million dollar buy-out, he had an option I think. That wouldn't be a big salary change, but it is money down the drain.
2007-10-01 13:16:42
138.   MikeB
135 - Our young players do need to work on their cliches for 2008. Camille Johnston should develop a spring training class for them entitled "How to Speak Plaschke"
2007-10-01 13:17:16
139.   KG16
130 - the Dodgers have 5 team captains in their history. Pee Wee Reese 1949-58, Duke Snider 1962, Maury Wills 1963-66, Willie Davis 1973, and Davey Lopes 1978-1979.
2007-10-01 13:17:54
140.   Disabled List
117 I'm thinking a little outside the box here, but let me just ask... are we sure that Colletti won't shop Pierre?

Even if we assumed that Colletti had an epiphany from watching Pierre all season long and finally realized that the guy just isn't that good, and even if there were still other GMs out there who still think Pierre has a lot to offer, his contract makes him all but untradeable.

Not only is he still owed $36 million over the next four years, but as a player traded in the middle of a multi-year contract, he would be able to demand a trade at the end of the following season. With leverage like that, Pierre is an immobile object in our outfield for the foreseeable future.

2007-10-01 13:18:19
141.   regfairfield
137 Plus 150 thousand to Lieberthal and Martinez, though God help us if Ned thinks Chad Moeller deserves a spot on a big league roster.
2007-10-01 13:18:59
142.   Bob Timmermann
134
I shall hang my head in shame.
2007-10-01 13:20:09
143.   Bluebleeder87
you guys think we could get anything of value for K/Guo? when he's right (He's damanged goods in my opinion) he can be pretty darn good, why not trade him for something? I don't know I'm just throwing that out there.
2007-10-01 13:22:08
144.   regfairfield
143 I don't see the point. I don't think we could get all that much in a trade due to how destroyed his arm is, but we'd look mighty dumb on the off chance he'll come back. I guess if you know he's gone, get whatever you can, but I would make every effort to keep him.
2007-10-01 13:22:17
145.   trainwreck
We could save an extra $700,000 by replacing Seanez with Hull. Not like I expect Seanez to keep this up.
2007-10-01 13:22:37
146.   paranoidandroid
I can't weigh in on Delwyn objectively, I taught at Littlerock High School and coached there for years. I had his sisters in class. He has a wonderful family and I want him to get a shot so badly that I'm simply unable to see this all clearly. However, there is room for him next year as a fourth outfielder as long as we don't bring back Ramon Martinez and the Tomato and we don't go out and sign an outfielder. I don't see them counting on Delwyn as the pinch hitter off the bench in clutch situations, I think Sweeney might be back for that role.

I think we might make a run at Andruw Jones and that would put Pierre in left. I don't think we really want to move Pierre off the team even if we could, he did what was expected of him and while I truly don't love the guy, you have to give credit where it is due and he got on base and changed a few games with him presence. He played a solid outfield the second half as far as getting to balls, but he'll never have a big league arm.

I think Pierre's style of play can fit in when we are generating more power from other sources. I also like Furcal when he's healthy and would be interested in locking him up for three more years if we could.

2007-10-01 13:22:51
147.   Bob Timmermann
141
But Chad Moeller has hit for the cycle.
2007-10-01 13:23:19
148.   StolenMonkey86
143- Given the injuries and performance he had this season, he'd likely be undervalued. last offseason, maybe, but don't know about now.
2007-10-01 13:24:17
149.   bhsportsguy
140 Not that I think he is going anywhere but players can no longer asked to be traded when dealt in the middle of a multi-year contract. That was removed in the new CBA.

That is why you see players asking for opt-outs when they sign deals or straight no-trade clauses.

2007-10-01 13:24:39
150.   D4P
But Chad Moeller has hit for the cycle

Over how many games...?

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-10-01 13:25:16
151.   underdog
Yeah, Seanez is one of the few suggestions on Jon's roster list above (which I realize are just likely possibilities or musings) that I disagree with. I actually think he's gone, too. They have in-house options in the minors who would be cheaper and younger (well, yeah, this is Ned C we're talking about so who knows), and I really don't expect the same from Seanez next year. Still, props to him for far surpassing my expectations.
2007-10-01 13:27:02
152.   JoeyP
you have to give credit where it is due and he got on base and changed a few games with him presence

No.

2007-10-01 13:28:36
153.   Disabled List
149 I didn't know that. Interesting.

But yeah, it doesn't really change anything. Pierre's not going anywhere.

2007-10-01 13:29:10
154.   Bluebleeder87
144

Good point, but the guy has NEVER pitched a COMPLETE YEAR, I really hope he's 100% for us in '08.

2007-10-01 13:30:06
155.   trainwreck
I hope Greg Miller gains a bit more control, because I think Beimel's run is coming to an end too.
2007-10-01 13:30:17
156.   Jon Weisman
151 - The above roster isn't my suggestion. It's what I think the team would be if the 2008 season started today (and if everyone were healthy).

You won't catch me advocating a million bucks for Seanez anytime soon.

2007-10-01 13:35:27
157.   regfairfield
Some ERA+ numbers:

Tomko (with Dodgers): 78
Hendrickson: 87
Odalis: 86
Edwin Jackson: 80 (with the worst defense in baseball)
Seo: 57

2007-10-01 13:35:39
158.   bhsportsguy
I'm surprised that no one has equated the Mets collapse to what happened with the Dodgers this year.

Starting rotation beset with injuries, the Dodger bullpen was probably better for most of the year but offensively, Reyes slumped big time, the old guys played old, and it took until game 160, to have their best player, David Wright speak up about taking pride, etc.

And I think while David Wright was correct to speak up, it again points up a flaw in roster construction when your best players have only played in the majors for a few years. Wright isn't going to get in the face of the older guys, he isn't going to Billy Wagner and find out what the deal is, etc.

I guess, fortunately for Grady, the streak that did in the Dodgers was back in August, though as close as September 16th, the Dodgers were still only 1.5 games out but then they lost 6 in a row and ultimatley 9 of ten to barely finish above .500

The best three players on the Mets, Wright, Reyes and Beltran are today better than the any player on the Dodgers but they have real issues at their other spots and I still like the Dodgers prospects for 2008 better than the Mets.

2007-10-01 13:35:52
159.   Eric Stephen
The Tomko buyout (and possible others) brings an interesting question. I've always considered buyout money a part of next year's salary (for instance, Tomko's $1m for 2008) even though its probably paid this year.

Since the Furcal $4m bonus is not due until January 2009, I've always considered that a part of the 2009 payroll, but I can see an argument for counting in in 2008.

2007-10-01 13:37:53
160.   underdog
151 No, I realized that. Should have rephrased, but I figured that was your take on what the roster would (not should) look like, most likely. But even then, I have a feeling that Seanez will be gone. Guess we'll see - we have four months to obsess about such things. (Sigh.)
2007-10-01 13:39:15
161.   El Lay Dave
154 ...but the guy has NEVER pitched a COMPLETE YEAR...

Which is probably why no GM will offer much of anything for K/Guo.

2007-10-01 13:40:23
162.   Mr Blue
131.

Pierre has a clause in his contract that, as he demanded, requires that he start 162 games per year. Sad but true. Go Neddie!

2007-10-01 13:40:52
163.   ToyCannon
Some old catchers going to be looking for a job this year. La Duca and Pudge might be shocked when they find out how much they will be playing baseball for next season.
2007-10-01 13:41:17
164.   Daniel Zappala
I don't see why Little can't just bench Pierre next year. He makes $8 million? So did Nomar, and he sat at times. Sign Andruw Jones, who is better than Pierre even when he has an off year like 2007, play him in CF, and sit Pierre. Ethier-Jones-Kemp is a good OF, with Young pushing Ethier for playing time.
2007-10-01 13:43:29
165.   ToyCannon
162
That is not true.

He was just stating that he plays everyday because he has a contract that pays him to play for 162 games. It is the same logic that Cal used. I admire Cal but I think all streaks come with a cost and that managers should break steaks before they become distractions and secondary to winning baseball games.

2007-10-01 13:44:14
166.   blue22
162 - You do know that's not true, correct? Pierre doesn't even have any performance kickers in his contract.
2007-10-01 13:45:06
167.   regfairfield
165 At least Cal deserved to be starting almost all of those games.
2007-10-01 13:45:56
168.   bhsportsguy
164 Totally different cases, Nomar sat because he was hurt, he never sat because he didn't home runs. Pierre is never going to sit for the things he can't do, it won't happen.

As long as he is healthy (which apparently, if you look at his career, he does do that as well as anyone), if he is wearing a Dodger uniform next year, he will be out there somewhere in the outfield.

2007-10-01 13:46:07
169.   LogikReader
The Mets/Dodgers comparison isn't 100% accurate. I don't think even in ideal circumstances the Dodgers had the expectation of going to the World Series, much less actually winning it.

The Mets, meanwhile, were considered the Class of the NL in March and played like it for the first two months. Finally, blowing a 7 game lead (which the Dodgers never had) with only two weeks to go is u n b e l i e v a b l e.

2007-10-01 13:46:36
170.   KG16
I just noticed something rather amazing, Pierre had 20 SH this year. The Dodgers had 58 total, mostly by pitchers - in fact only 7 were by position players not named Juan Pierre.

What affect does that have on his numbers? Obviously, it hurts his OBP, but what about the rest?

2007-10-01 13:47:12
171.   goofus
137 Save the Tomko Option money. Pick up the option (We still have that right?) then trade him somewhere for a prospect. If San Diego thought he was worth signing there will be others.
2007-10-01 13:47:51
172.   D4P
I will be annoyed at whichever GM pays Andruw the amount he would have been paid had he performed well in 2007. The guy is a career .839 OPS guy, with .724 in 2007, and we're supposed to believe he's a superstar.
2007-10-01 13:48:10
173.   bhsportsguy
165 It is strange, in this era of complaints about huge contracts in sports, Juan Pierre gets criticized for wanting to play everyday. In the end, it is the manager's decision and I guess for his career, his managers have written his name on the lineup card just about everyday.
2007-10-01 13:48:30
174.   Eric Stephen
170 The sacrifice hits have no effect on Pierre's OBP, as they are not counted as PA in the calculation of OBP. (Sacrifice flies are counted however)

OBP = (H + BB + HBP) / (AB + BB + HBP + SF)

2007-10-01 13:49:19
175.   regfairfield
171 You can't trade someone whose not on your team. He's the Padres' player, we just pay most of his salary.
2007-10-01 13:50:25
176.   El Lay Dave
170 SH, AKA sacrifice bunt, is not a term in calculating OBP, nor BA. (Sac flies hurt the OBP.)
2007-10-01 13:50:31
177.   silverwidow
171 - Tomko was bought out when he was DFA'd.
2007-10-01 13:50:59
178.   Eric Stephen
171 The Dodgers no longer have the option on Tomko because they released him, but owe him the $1m buyout, plus all of his 2007 salary less a pro-rated minimum ($70k or so) paid by the Padres.
2007-10-01 13:51:26
179.   bhsportsguy
170 They don't count as at-bats (or plate appearances as far as I know for OBP) so they really don't affect any of his numbers. That is why they are call "sacrifices."

Except in the case of the 12 hour fielder's choice that was called a sacrifice by Rafael Furcal. But Bob made sure that was changed.

2007-10-01 13:52:14
180.   silverwidow
I stand by my belief that Ned will offer Torii Hunter $100-120 million to play CF.
2007-10-01 13:52:27
181.   underdog
173 I like that Pierre wants to play every day. It's the feeling of being forced to play him every day that gets annoying. Not saying it's Pierre himself that puts a gun to the manager's head, but there's the contract, and there's his streak, and somewhere in there it gets lost that both he and the team could benefit from sitting him down.
2007-10-01 13:52:32
182.   Bob Timmermann
Catcher's interference doesn't figure into OBP either, so Ethier's two and Furcal's one don't count.
2007-10-01 13:53:08
183.   El Lay Dave
173 I thought 165 was putting the blame on managers, not players, or in this case, Little, not Pierre.

...managers should break steaks...

2007-10-01 13:53:16
184.   trainwreck
I could see us going after a LF, but not a CF. I think Ethier and LaRoche are the most likely to be traded.
2007-10-01 13:53:44
185.   KG16
174 - that makes no sense. A sacrifice fly counts as a plate appearance but a sacrifice hit doesn't? I can't imagine that a SH would count as an AB. But upon further review, it appears that you are right.

So, let me rephrase, if he was swinging away instead of dropping sacrifice bunts, what impact does that have on his numbers and the Dodger's offense?

2007-10-01 13:53:51
186.   Sam DC
173 Does he really get criticized for that? I feel like he regularly gets recognized/acknowledged for being a good guy who works hard and stays healthy. For the most part, I think he gets criticized for making outs too often and playing weak defense and management gets criticized for overvaluing his performance by paying him too much and playing him too much.
2007-10-01 13:55:27
187.   underdog
183 With A-1 sauce if needed. ;-)
2007-10-01 13:55:54
188.   goofus
[131, 162} Does that clause say we can't replace him with DY in the bottom of the first?
2007-10-01 13:57:44
189.   Bluebleeder87
I was just checking & Peavy is pitching on normal rest. I don't know but I always feel he expands a lot of energy with his motion, the Rox better pray he's a little fatigued during this long season or else it's "wait till next year" time for them as well.
2007-10-01 13:58:33
190.   KG16
185 - let me elaborate a bit more. Let's assume that in the 20 SH that Pierre had, if he didn't drop a bunt, but swung. He has a .331 OBP, so that's 6 or 7 times getting on base instead of making an out. How many additional runs is that worth?
2007-10-01 13:59:15
191.   bhsportsguy
181 Is this some new thing I missed while on my personal vacation. Juan Pierre has a clause in his contract that says he has to play everyday?

I know he has the streak and all but that seems strange.

2007-10-01 14:00:29
192.   MikeB
189 - Game time is twilight hour at Coors Field. Batters may have difficulty seeing the ball if there is no cloud cover to cutdown on the shadows. Time for a weather report from Denver.
2007-10-01 14:00:35
193.   regfairfield
190 Since sacrifice bunts actually hurt your expected runs, probably about five.
2007-10-01 14:00:53
194.   glengarry
Does anyone know the email address for the team? I can't find it on the official site (great customer service).

Love the discussion and I always learn a lot reading Jon's posts and this board. I think all of us and every like-minded fan should email the Dodgers to generally support the youth movement, so McCourt and Colletti won't think the city is behind Plaschke, Simers, et al.

I was upset at McCourt's recent remarks that we have enough talent to win but didn't come through, and that he learned more about individuals in their response to losing. These comments show that he thinks Colletti built a winner but the players' attitudes (read Loney, Kemp, etc.) were to blame. So it wasn't wasting $30m on Pierre, Schmidt and Nomar, it was the guys who had OPS over 1.000 in September. Okay, clearly he's wrong, but we need to let the Dodgers know that many fans don't think the way the LA Times does. McCourt needs to learn that we didn't have enough talent - it was clear in spring training that we had talent to win 80-88 games. I doubt he'll listen to us more than Tommy but we must try.

Please please please join me in emailing some sense into our team.

Thanks

2007-10-01 14:01:02
195.   bhsportsguy
184 At least here on DT, no one questions Jon's motives? Unlike a certain college team site you and I know about.
2007-10-01 14:01:15
196.   Jon Weisman
191 - No, no, no. It's a quote that got misinterpreted.
2007-10-01 14:01:27
197.   Mr Blue
I recently posed the question on PSD as to why Gump had Pierre in the lineup every game, especially the last week when he was the only veteran playing. Somebody responded with the "162 game requirement" plus what looked like credible backup. My bad for not going out to COTS or ROTOWORLD to fact check that. Once again, my bad and apologies to all posters.
2007-10-01 14:01:35
198.   JT Dutch
... Some of this talk (let's sign Rodriguez and an outfielder); I just don't get it. These kids, for the most part, are ready. They've BEEN ready. I don't see any problem at all with a 2008 lineup of:

Martin-C
Furcal-SS
Loney-1B
Kemp-CF
Young-LF
Kent-2B
Ethier-LF
LaRoche-3B

With a little more pitching, I'd happily go to war with that. Pierre and Repko offer depth in the outfield, Garciaparra and Abreu in the infield. Obviously, any sort of move to bench Pierre for any length of time requires a manager who has enough stones to be worthy of the title of "manager"; if Grady doesn't, that's his problem. That lineup will win the National League.

2007-10-01 14:04:13
199.   trainwreck
195
The football board has gotten almost impossible to read.
2007-10-01 14:07:46
200.   Marty
You can't trade someone whose not on your team

Well, you should be able to. Think of the hijinx that would ensue.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-10-01 14:07:52
201.   MikeB
198 - Personally, I don't believe Kent or Nomar will be back. Kent would probably welcome a trade to a contender and does anyone on this board actually believe Nomar will agree to a part-time role in 2008? I doubt that very much. Ned will know by December 1 whether he has to trade both of these guys (at their request) and that will likely dictate any other moves he makes in the off season.
2007-10-01 14:08:22
202.   Robert Daeley
198 Especially if we can have both Ethier and Young in LF. ;)
2007-10-01 14:09:53
203.   bhsportsguy
194 Maybe its best if we all put the last few weeks behind us.

The biggest problem was all this stuff coming outside the clubhouse, both Kent's comments and then what followed. It caused unnecessary articles, both local and national, about really nothing more than frustration about the a disappointing finish.

Do players gripe about playing time on every team, I would think so.

Are there generational splits, ethnic splits, religous splits, music splits, anything splits in a room filled with 25-30 guys from different backgrounds in every big league city? I again, not having been there, still would say yes. Now these are probably not talked about and probably not amount to much in the end when it comes to winning and losing, you just hear about more when you lose.

Its been almost two years since the Jacksonville 5 won their league championship, I think come spring of 2008, outside of Joel Guzman and Edwin Jackson who both were there, the rest of that team plus James McDonald, Jon Meloan and Matt Kemp will be helping the Dodgers start a new tradition in their 50th anniversary season.

Will there be some vets along way, probably but the main guys will be the players who played the last week of the 2007 season.

2007-10-01 14:10:31
204.   underdog
198 That line-up works fine for me! If they make sure starting pitching is stabilized with (good) depth. I'd be fine with it.
2007-10-01 14:10:32
205.   JT Dutch
198

... I made an error in my lineup; it should read Ethier-RF.

201

... If both Kent and Nomar walk, then I wouldn't have a problem wading into the free agent pool for insurance, in case Abreu can't cut it offensively.

2007-10-01 14:11:03
206.   underdog
202 Er, except that part. Talk about an overshift! ;-)
2007-10-01 14:11:36
207.   goofus
[171} If he's Padres property, why don't they have to pay the buyout? I think a court would rule that contracts end, either the Pads sign him for next year or buy him out, or he reverts back to the Dodgers who will have the same option. That's only logic speaking, it is entirely possible the existing CBA or an informal agreement among the clubs makes it as you say. Wouldn't surprise me.
2007-10-01 14:11:44
208.   Bumsrap
I would like to see the Dodgers cleanse themselves of players whose roles are to help the team be competitive for one more year so that the kids can take it from there.

So anybody that won't be on the team in 2009 should not be on the team in 2008.

Goodby Kent, Nomar, Saenz, Saenez, Leiberthal, Hernandez, Loaiza, Wells, Hendrickson. Lieberthal could be the exception.

Trade Pierre, Abreu, LaRoche, Kuo to SF for Cain. Trade Kent and Lowe to Texas for Ian Kinsler.

Trade Nomar to the Angels for Shields.

Sign AROD.

2007-10-01 14:12:54
209.   Mr Blue
198.

I think that if we did have a manager who had the onions to bench Pierre for a while, we might get lucky and have Pierre demand to be traded. Knowing that would decrease his market value though, I'd prefer to trade him proactively. As for Kent, I think he's a permanent cancer in the clubhouse now and needs to be moved. He is LaRussa's kinda guy, so let's start there. Plus we need to create a spot for Hu.

2007-10-01 14:14:35
210.   bhsportsguy
BTW - Now is a good time to click the "Paypal" link on the side and send somethng more tangible to Jon for making DT a place to spend some quality time.

I know he appreciates it and really, everyone here probably spends more on their other vices. So a few bucks can be spared as DT enters year 6.

2007-10-01 14:17:44
211.   MikeB
208 - Trades between the Dodgers and Giants have traditionally been of the fringe player/end of career sort of thing. SF will never trade a young stud pitcher of the caliber of Cain to LA.
2007-10-01 14:19:07
212.   bhsportsguy
208 Why would the Giants take on 10 million or so bucks in salary for an injured pitcher, two possibly injury-plagued youngsters and a high-priced stolen base machine for arguably one of their best two players on the team when he is going to make around 500-600K for this season. And why would they trade him to the Dodgers?

Why is Texas taking on over 20 million dollars of salary for anyone?

The Angels are not trading Scot Shields.

2007-10-01 14:20:59
213.   JT Dutch
209

... Trading Pierre would amount to another Goodwin/Odalis situation; paying a guy NOT to play for the Dodgers. I'm not a big fan of that. Look, I actually think Pierre can be a useful player, if used as a reserve. He's a very expensive reserve, but the team's paying him the money anyway -- it's too late for that to be a factor now.

2007-10-01 14:22:17
214.   trainwreck
We do not even need Shields.

We should have learned not to trade anything of value for middle relief.

2007-10-01 14:23:49
215.   xaphor
Nomar is of value?
2007-10-01 14:25:39
216.   El Lay Dave
207 The Padres would get Tomko's old contract if they had traded for him, but they didn't; the Dodgers designated him for assignment, he went unclaimed and was released. This puts the Dodgers on the hook for his guaranteed contract WITH THE DODGERS, including the buyout. SD only had to sign Tomko to a standard contract at a pro-rated minimum salary; the Dodgers get to deduct that from what they owe Tomko.
2007-10-01 14:25:44
217.   Bluebleeder87
I don't know about the #"s but just by looking at them I feel there comparable players & D.Young is a switch hitter so that makes him more valuable. But I also feel Andre Ethier has done some pretty good things for the Dodgers the last couple of years so I'm sure Grady Little holds him in high esteem.
2007-10-01 14:27:52
218.   El Lay Dave
215 His 80 OPS+ is not bad for a utility infielder.
2007-10-01 14:28:09
219.   underdog
This is gonna be a long off-season...
2007-10-01 14:28:56
220.   Kevin Lewis
184

That is where my money is.

2007-10-01 14:28:57
221.   regfairfield
218 Why would you do that when you have Maicer Izturis and Erick Aybar?
2007-10-01 14:29:19
222.   Jon Weisman
Not kicking anyone out by any means, but there will be game chat for the Padres-Rockies game over at Bad Altitude.

http://badaltitude.baseballtoaster.com/archives/827181.html

2007-10-01 14:33:32
223.   paranoidandroid
Intriguing thought:

Ray Durham is not wanted in SF and has a year at 7 million left. We have an unhappy Nomar and Kent at about the same amount, 9 million each.

I don't want Durham, but can you picture a scenario like the Giants and Angels had with Edgardo Alfonzo and Steve Finley?

I hope Kent can fit into our 2008 team with a winning attitude. I don't think there will be much of a market for Nomar unless there is an equal salary dump or if we pick up most of the guaranteed contract.

2007-10-01 14:34:28
224.   MikeB
Sometimes looking back helps us to look forward --
http://tinyurl.com/2544zw
2007-10-01 14:35:17
225.   regfairfield
223 Nomar has his no trade clause, so he's not going anywhere. Kent is still one of our best players, so dumping him for trash isn't the best idea.
2007-10-01 14:43:01
226.   paranoidandroid
225 I am not advocating trading Kent at all, only if he won't stay or can't fit in. I wouldn't want him for Durham. I would think Nomar for Durham would make more sense, if we need to move Nomar that is. If he would be given a starting role there and not here, he could waive that no-trade clause that I didn't even know he had.
2007-10-01 14:43:23
227.   MikeB
225 - But they may want to leave and why keep them if they want to go? Kent has made it public he wants to go out a winner, and odds are he does not view the 2008 version of the Dodgers as a contender (too much youth). And, it is very likely Nomar will not accept a part-time role with the Dodgers in 2008 if the Dodgers keep & start LaRoche at 3B next season. I think there will be takers for both players - what you get in return may not be as important as making the club house less toxic and freeing up some cash for other needs.
2007-10-01 14:43:47
228.   xaphor
By the by, Radiohead have announced their new album, In Rainbows, will be released Oct 10th as a digital download for the bargain basement price of whatever you feel like paying. You can pre-order now at their website.
2007-10-01 14:44:22
229.   paranoidandroid
Jon: Does Tomko's buy-out come out of the 2008 money or has it been paid this year already? I'm not sure how that works, seems logical to me that he is bought out at the end of the season and that the money is charged to the 2008 payroll cost but I might be wrong.
2007-10-01 14:45:55
230.   paranoidandroid
228 Exciting times! Glad there are other fans out there. I saw them four times in summer of 2006, the new stuff is quite good. I can't get atease.com or radiohead.com to load, too much traffic right now.
2007-10-01 14:50:48
231.   StolenMonkey86
208
Trade Pierre, Abreu, LaRoche, Kuo to SF for Cain. Trade Kent and Lowe to Texas for Ian Kinsler.

I think that if you trade Lowe you'll have to do something to fill in for him in the rotation. Even assuming a healthy Schmidt, I see him as being a drop off from D-Lowe, who has been rather consistent the last 3 years. I also think Penny will be more injury prone next year, though both are valuable enough that I think trading one of them would almost necessitate getting Santana. If I were to propose something, I'd just try something like Kent and Pierre to NYY for Melky Cabrera or Johnny Damon.

Trade Nomar to the Angels for Shields.
Nomar has a no trade clause, and I don't know if he'll waive it.

Sign AROD.
I'll offer $250 million over 7 for starters.

2007-10-01 14:53:46
232.   paranoidandroid
228 Good new songs to watch out for:

1. House of Cards
2. Nude (Big Ideas) or whatever they end up calling it
3. Down is the New Up
4. All I Need
5. 15 Step
6. Videotape

2007-10-01 14:57:34
233.   Bluebleeder87
In Rainbows, will be released Oct 10th as a digital download for the bargain basement price of whatever you feel like paying. You can pre-order now at their website.

Woah.

2007-10-01 14:57:49
234.   blue22
231 - Trade Nomar to the Angels for Shields.
Nomar has a no trade clause, and I don't know if he'll waive it.

I think he'd waive it to go to Anaheim, if the potential for playing time was greater there. But I think he'd be behind even more young players at third there (Figgins, Aybar, Izturis, MacPherson).

2007-10-01 14:58:25
235.   Humma Kavula
As a proud member in good standing of the A-Rod or Nobody club, I can say it's sure going to be disappointing when, 9 days after Cleveland beats the Padres in the World Series, Mr. Rodriguez announces that all is forgiven and that he has signed a 7-year contract extension with the Yankees.
2007-10-01 15:02:34
236.   paranoidandroid
233 We waited since 2003 for new material, no recording contract has been signed. Thom won't gouge people, but most of us will go with the CD box set that they have available.

You can pre-order the "Discbox" which has a copy of the download on CD, plus a vinyl copy, plus a second CD of additional material plus the download access for 40 pounds, or about $80. It will ship in December and you can also download the material on Oct 10th. The download alone doesn't have the additional material. Looks like 'Down is the New Up' didn't make the cut

2007-10-01 15:07:34
237.   xaphor
The price for the box set includes shipping to anywhere in the world, which is also insane. I'm sure plenty on industry types are banging their heads up against the wall right now.
2007-10-01 15:13:28
238.   paranoidandroid
237 $80 is steep, but the rest of the world has a currency that is worth something so they will be paying about half of that.

Whatever it is, it's worth it to me. I hope they tour and I can get tix again. It was a a challenge at the Greek, got a single for each night, had to pay scalper price for one. SD was an easier ticket to get.

2007-10-01 15:21:21
239.   El Lay Dave
221 I was only responding to the Nomar/value comment, not the (far-fetched) trade to the Angels suggestion.
2007-10-01 15:24:18
240.   xaphor
239 I would rather have the 8.5 million over Nomar, so trading his salary away for even nothing in return strikes me as a fine deal. Middle Relievers are a slight step above nothing I suppose.
2007-10-01 15:26:15
241.   Bluebleeder87
I feel a little dumb/bad for not liking Radiohead (2 or 3 songs are pretty good) I have the Tommy Lee mentality on them in that I just don't get them (a few of my friends really dig them) maybe Scott Long can do a "please explain" on them so I can be more enlighten on there musical style...
2007-10-01 15:28:43
242.   silverwidow
Gurnick is incredibly obnoxious, especially in regard to 3rd base, in his "season preview" at Dodgers.com.

LaRoche doesn't even exist to him.

2007-10-01 15:29:17
243.   El Lay Dave
65 Belated thanks for the clarification. So the only choices for the Dodgers regarding K/Guo are re-sign/40-man, or waive?
2007-10-01 15:33:01
244.   El Lay Dave
240 After his last season and one-half, I can't imagine that even if a trade could be negotiated (some other team is interested and Nomar waives his no-trade), that the Dodgers wouldn't have to send a heap of money in the deal.
2007-10-01 15:35:59
245.   MC Safety
Im starting a new band called either Radio Coletti, or Colettihead if anyone is interested in joining.
2007-10-01 15:36:06
246.   D4P
"I know I could have done a lot better," said Pierre, who salvaged the season with a solid second half.

How?

2007-10-01 15:36:43
247.   El Lay Dave
Gurnick: After losing three consecutive games for the Dodgers, Loaiza conceded the knee surgery he underwent in June might not have fully healed.

Gee, thanks Esteban.

2007-10-01 15:38:44
248.   El Lay Dave
246 salvaged the season
Gurnick is old-school, eh? (Obviously that is supposed to be "salvaged his season".)
2007-10-01 15:41:11
249.   trainwreck
247
No Esteban, you are just done.
2007-10-01 15:42:23
250.   xaphor
244 I agree and I cannot imagine Ned thinking about next season without penciling in Pierre and Nomar into the lineup. I was just making light over the value of middle relievers and that of our favourite van decoration and how they match up rather well in this situation.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-10-01 15:45:14
251.   MC Safety
247-I love that argument. We have heard alot of those. Im just waiting for Gonzo's phantom injury. It will come out when he signs with the Angels, dont worry.
2007-10-01 15:45:21
252.   regfairfield
249 So far he's made my "probably won't be a complete disaster" look pretty bad. I still got faith in the guy to not be worthless in 2008 if he heals up.
2007-10-01 15:45:41
253.   El Lay Dave
242 I assume it is these lines (along with the absence of the name LaRoche) that has your dander up:

Forecast: ... third base is a black hole

A middle-of-the-order third baseman is the biggest need.

2007-10-01 15:46:24
254.   regfairfield
246 He didn't hit for very much power, even for him.
2007-10-01 15:48:37
255.   trainwreck
252
I still think we should re-sign Wolf at a cheaper rate. Then hope Kuo and McDonald can be our insurance. If we cannot get rid of Loaiza then we can count him as part of our insurance.

I do not think we should trust him with a spot in the rotation.

2007-10-01 15:49:48
256.   D4P
254
But that just begs the question: how could he have hit for more power? Sure, he sucked, but could he have reasonably not sucked? If so, how?
2007-10-01 15:51:45
257.   El Lay Dave
I'm surprised I haven't seen this Colletti quote here already, from Sunday's Gurnick:

"Look at how the young players have progressed. They're all better than they were," said Colletti. "A lot of credit I give to [Grady Little]. Part of the interviewing process last year was working with young players and his willingness to play young players. A lot of managers would shy away from playing young players because they're not a finished product. We're seeing the results of it. That's a key component when you're trying to do what we're doing, staying the course. The opposite component is not a good fit. We're going to continue playing young players."

2007-10-01 15:52:06
258.   regfairfield
256 He could have hit the ball on the ground more often. All of his "power" probably comes from ground balls down the line, so if he wouldn't have flied out as much, he could have hit for a higher average and slugging percentage.
2007-10-01 15:54:31
259.   Kevin Lewis
By the way, I do hope we pay Saito more for next season. I think he has earned it.
2007-10-01 15:54:52
260.   D4P
257
There's a video floating around YouTube in which a certain world leader utters the phrase "We're gonna stay the course" on no fewer than 29 separate occasions to describe his policy with respect to a certain war his country was waging.

At the end of the video, said leader says "We've never been 'stay the course'".

2007-10-01 15:55:17
261.   El Lay Dave
256 2007 was the second-worst extra-base hit / slugging pct. season in his career. He is capable of more doubles/triples.
2007-10-01 15:55:51
262.   D4P
258
Do you think that was under his control? Do you think he could have intentionally hit fewer flyballs and more groundballs?
2007-10-01 15:56:17
263.   jasonungar07
Pierre got on base at .356 in the 2nd half, .311 in the first.

That's how.

2007-10-01 15:56:51
264.   El Lay Dave
262 He should just bunt over the 3B's head more often.
2007-10-01 15:57:13
265.   MC Safety
Are you sure that came from a man named Ned Coletti? Im flabbergasted!
2007-10-01 15:59:20
266.   D4P
Pierre got on base at .356 in the 2nd half, .311 in the first

What did he do differently in the 2nd half?

2007-10-01 16:00:04
267.   regfairfield
262 Yeah, those things tend to be pretty consistent.
2007-10-01 16:00:34
268.   El Lay Dave
263 .356 would be acceptable for the entire season. It didn't "salvage his season" - the only salvaging was in the counting stats, 162 G, 196 H, 96 R, 64 SB. (BTW, His final SB% was 81.01 - must have slumped a little at the end.)
2007-10-01 16:01:00
269.   MC Safety
260- Is that by the same guy that did the "smoke em out" one?
2007-10-01 16:02:45
270.   jasonungar07
I am Mr. Anti Pierre. I don't know I cause I didn't watch. Honestly. I would change the channel and then flip back to when I though 4 pitches and a ground out to 2b happened.

Sometimes I would be really suprised!

Honestly the at bats I saw him take after Murray was scapegoated seemed to show a little more patience and waiting for his pitch, but I am sure there are stats that prove thats not true.

So, luck I guess, which is what you are thinking? lol

2007-10-01 16:03:15
271.   Gen3Blue
257 I would love to believe Coletti said that.

I think tonight we get the game on TBS at 7:30 ET, on TBS. I'll be flipping with the Patriots later.

2007-10-01 16:05:47
272.   blue22
Juan Pierre was 2nd in LD% among Dodger regulars this year (20.6%), and was pretty in line with the rest of his (recent) career.

He was first on the team in GB% too, about in line with his career.

Was he just unlucky with respect to slugging percentage?

2007-10-01 16:07:18
273.   Bob Timmermann
I should point out that there is a thread on Bad Altitude for discussing the Rockies-Padres game.

The Toaster is trying to steer discussions of postseason games to the other blogs.

So feel free to visit Bad Altitude, Cubs Town, Mike's Baseball Rants (Phillies), Cardboard Gods (Red Sox), and Bronx Banter.

The Griddle will host any game threads that end up not involving those teams.

I'm waiting for that Angels-DBacks World Series.

2007-10-01 16:08:26
274.   D4P
Is that by the same guy that did the "smoke em out" one?

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, could be...

2007-10-01 16:17:29
275.   trainwreck
Any Bay Area DTers going to Oktoberfest?
2007-10-01 16:18:15
276.   D4P
275
Where there's drunk girls, there's Icaros.
2007-10-01 16:19:36
277.   Sam DC
Ixnay on the otentialpay uleray ivefay eferencesray.
2007-10-01 16:21:46
278.   D4P
277
Okayay.
2007-10-01 16:22:42
279.   Sam DC
There's a volcano erupting in Yemen?

Yemen?

2007-10-01 16:24:14
280.   El Lay Dave
279 Yeah, man.
2007-10-01 16:25:35
281.   Bob Timmermann
279
It's in the Ring of Fire.
2007-10-01 16:27:07
282.   underdog
So this space should currently be used for Volcano Thoughts, Beer Thoughts, and Teams That Didn't Make The Playoffs Thoughts? Just clarifying.
2007-10-01 16:28:08
283.   Sam DC
281 I thought that was around the rim of the Pacific?
2007-10-01 16:29:16
284.   Bluebleeder87
279

I can't find the "breaking story" Sam, I looked on FoxNews & CNN to no avail.

2007-10-01 16:29:17
285.   Joshua Worley
277

I think "ixnay" is probably used more than "nix" these days. It's rare to see "nix" used outside of the porcine-latin context anymore!

2007-10-01 16:30:48
286.   Bob Timmermann
283
Yeah, that's right, but I like Johnny Cash.

There seem to be a fair number of volcanoes in that part of the world though.

2007-10-01 16:31:46
287.   blue22
284 - http://tinyurl.com/2m3khy
2007-10-01 16:31:54
288.   Sam DC
Bluebleeder: http://tinyurl.com/344lfz
2007-10-01 16:32:44
289.   still bevens
So are none of these TBS games in HD or what? Seems bush league to me.
2007-10-01 16:32:52
290.   Sam DC
Video: http://tinyurl.com/yowdo3
2007-10-01 16:34:29
291.   Bob Timmermann
289
TBS is adding an HD channel. It's up to your cable system to find room for it.
2007-10-01 16:35:54
292.   blue22
291 - DirecTV came through in the clutch and added TBS just this weekend. Playoff baseball in HD!
2007-10-01 16:37:48
293.   Bob Timmermann
The Golan Heights were formed by a volcano!

Go figure!

2007-10-01 16:41:31
294.   Sam DC
Volcanos of the world.

http://tinyurl.com/2a6ko3

2007-10-01 16:42:15
295.   Gen3Blue
280-ay. YEAH, MAYBE. every medium erution seems to cause cooling in the temperate zone. And its cool enough in NE most years.
2007-10-01 16:42:22
296.   Sam DC
Hopefully, Dotsero won't blow tonight.
2007-10-01 16:43:02
297.   D4P
Oregon rules!

http://www.volcanolive.com/usa.html

2007-10-01 16:53:04
298.   xaphor
The Red Sea marks the border of two continental plates that are drifting away from each other causing quite a bit of geological activity in the area.
2007-10-01 16:54:43
299.   dodgerkramer1
Brady Clark is playing center field!!!!!
2007-10-01 16:55:51
300.   dodgerkramer1
how do 2 runs NOT score on that play?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-10-01 17:01:22
301.   xaphor
Rockie Thoughts not relating to those spewing out of the Earth are over at your local Rockie affiliate: http://badaltitude.baseballtoaster.com/
2007-10-01 17:07:44
302.   Gen3Blue
300 Its differnet from a D's game where runs are often scored it the first or at best second. I'll have to find a way to get statistics on the freqency or runs scored, or BB in the first two innings.
2007-10-01 17:11:16
303.   Gen3Blue
Excuse me!!!!!
2007-10-01 17:11:20
304.   El Lay Dave
Reflecting back on the title of this topic: am I wrong to picture a mangy group of primitive veterans picking through a pile of discarded cliches, using them as tools season after season, finally using one to bludgeon a member of a rival tribe of rookies who "just don't get it", them amidst increasing shrieking, flipping the cliche skyward, only to see it transform into the sleek, futuristic spaceship of a talented youth movement?
2007-10-01 17:16:02
305.   Gen3Blue
I hope you are right, its an apropo image.
2007-10-01 17:23:26
306.   underdog
This one could quickly get competitive again in a matter of moments...
2007-10-01 17:23:53
307.   underdog
oops, pardon me - thought I was back in Rockies Thoughts ;-)
2007-10-01 17:32:12
308.   xaphor
How about a group of younger less established primates toiling away in the shadow of the older and more experienced tribe until they discover they can use their primitive tools of hope and fulfilled potential to bloody and drive away the veterans and their archaic self serving propaganda in a shameful cower. A new era dawns! (queue Strauss)
2007-10-01 17:40:52
309.   El Lay Dave
308 Ah, I believe you are better at this that I!

Jeff Kent plays 2B like a monolith.

2007-10-01 17:41:05
310.   El Lay Dave
..."than I".
2007-10-01 17:46:01
311.   Gen3Blue
Hey, no problem, that I is fine --better than that me.
2007-10-01 17:50:02
312.   MJW101
Jon,

Beimel, Repko and Proctor are ARB eligible and will probably get more than they are worth.

Stults is also out of options like Houlton, Kuo and Young.

Kent is $9M + $2M in performance bonuses.

Tomko is owed the $1m in 08 along with $750K for O. Perez and $750K for Mueller.

I do not think Ned will let his long lost son Martinez leave the team.

I have the teams payroll at $98M for 2008. This does not include Saenz, Seanz, Wells, Hendrickson, Hernandez, Hillenbrand, Repko, Gonzalez or Valdez.

2007-10-01 17:58:34
313.   Branch Rickey
289. Hey! Thanks for bringing this up. You got me thinking and then checking if DirectTV had added new HD channels and sure enough, TBS HD is not channel 247! And looks even better than ESPN HD. I'm excited!
2007-10-01 18:01:12
314.   coachjpark
Is the Rockies/Pads game televised in Socal? And if so, what channel on DirecTV?
2007-10-01 18:02:09
315.   bigcpa
Ned & Sabes are off the hook. Chris Young and Adrian Gonzalez for Eaton & Otsuka is now officially the worst trade of the decade.
2007-10-01 18:03:59
316.   Gen3Blue
314 Only TBS as far as I know.
2007-10-01 18:06:10
317.   coachjpark
316 Thanks. Channel 247. I was surfing my MLB Game Mix channels and couldn't find it.
2007-10-01 18:10:00
318.   Branch Rickey
If you have DirectTV HD there are actually TWO channel 247s (one in HD and one in standard def). If you actually punch in the channel #, you'll get the HD channel. Or if you go into your "favorites" you'll see both the HD and non HD channel 247.
2007-10-01 18:10:36
319.   Gen3Blue
Talk on the tube about Tulowitsky's fearlessness on the field. And it makes me understand what our back-up catcher meant when he said R. Martin will occasionally be hurt. Russ doesn't consider walls or approaching runners if it would get in the way of his play. I wouldn't like it any other way.
2007-10-01 18:22:47
320.   Gen3Blue
Oh, those Patriots. I probably should jump on the band wagon now to hide what an opportunistic football fan I am.
2007-10-01 18:42:21
321.   Gen3Blue
Ya, Bradey Clark is playing center field allright.
2007-10-01 21:23:22
322.   MSarg29
What a finish tonight.
2007-10-01 21:28:46
323.   LeeLacy
322 Except that Holliday never touched home plate. That ump clearly had no clue whether he'd touched it; that may have been the most tentative safe call I've ever seen.
2007-10-01 21:34:05
324.   CanuckDodger
So, there weren't any posts here for over two and a half hours?
2007-10-01 21:41:00
325.   Bob Timmermann
324
The eyes of the world were on Bad Altitude!
2007-10-01 21:44:24
326.   El Lay Dave
Where there is plenty of discussion and disagreement on 323 .
2007-10-01 22:08:31
327.   Bob Timmermann
Ducksnorts was at 945 comments when I checked.

That game would have torn my guts out if I were a fan of either team.

2007-10-01 22:55:03
328.   Greg Brock
That was an amazing baseball game.
2007-10-01 23:00:56
329.   Linkmeister
327 Amen, brother.

http://www.linkmeister.com/blog/archives/002568.html

2007-10-02 00:03:41
330.   LAT
In many ways not really caring about the outcome of this game made it much more enjoyable to watch.
2007-10-02 00:08:28
331.   trainwreck
330
I wanted the Rockies to win, but I would have gotten over it a lot easier than if it were the Dodgers.

Then again, there was a lot on the line and I want the Dodgers to be in those situations.

2007-10-02 00:16:42
332.   silverwidow
Mike Lowell is interested in Dodgers?

http://tinyurl.com/247jfz

2007-10-02 00:29:02
333.   trainwreck
332
A-Rod or LaRoche. Those should be our options.
2007-10-02 06:31:03
334.   Andrew Shimmin
Cripes. Peavey, Sheets, Santana, Sabathia, and Lackey are all scheduled to be free agents after 2008.

Kyle Lohse is a free agent this year.

2007-10-02 06:35:47
335.   Andrew Shimmin
Peavy.
2007-10-02 07:03:37
336.   D4P
Peavey, Sheets, Santana, Sabathia, and Lackey are all scheduled to be free agents after 2008

The Yankees must be licking their chops.

2007-10-02 07:08:57
337.   Daniel Zappala
Ducksnorts: "have there ever been as many posts to one blog as this one?"

At post 794. Amateurs.

2007-10-02 07:12:47
338.   D4P
794?

Mere child's play.

2007-10-02 07:32:12
339.   Bumsrap
Peavey, Sheets, Santana, Sabathia, and Lackey are all scheduled to be free agents after 2008

Kent, Garciapara, Lowe, Penny, Furcal, Loaiza off Dodger payroll at end of 2008.

Kershaw, McDonald, Billingsley in the rotation in 2008.

Hello Dodgers

2007-10-02 07:32:30
340.   Andrew Shimmin
Al Green is the Representative of the 9th district of Texas. Awesome. His tie is A Beautiful Thing, but it's strobing.
2007-10-02 07:37:23
341.   Andrew Shimmin
Ladies and gentlemen of DT, if you will indulge me, I'd like to humbly request that if anyone else sees fit to reproduce the part of 334 in which I misspelled Jake Peavy's name, he or she correct it. Throw some brackets around it if you have to, to feel like you aren't whitewashing history. But, please don't just let my error stand. It hurts my soul.
2007-10-02 07:41:28
342.   D4P
341
Sounds like misspelling is a pet peave of yours...
2007-10-02 07:42:53
343.   silverwidow
334 - The Padres have a 2009 option on Peavy.
2007-10-02 07:44:12
344.   silverwidow
339 - And we have a 2009 option on Penny.
2007-10-02 07:44:17
345.   Andrew Shimmin
342- I haven't got pet peeves. I don't really understand the concept of having something that makes you angry, but only in a cute way. I understand having things that don't make you angry and I understand having things that send you into a murderous rage. But I can't see the point of anything in between.
2007-10-02 07:48:05
346.   Andrew Shimmin
344- Right you are. I guess maybe the Padres will keep the best player on their team around, even at the price of eight million dollars. I wonder if that's the only one I screwed up. . .
2007-10-02 07:57:37
347.   Andrew Shimmin
Lackey has a 2009 option, too.
2007-10-02 08:00:51
348.   Vishal
332 call me an elitist, but since when does scoring 1210 on the SAT demonstrate that someone is "exceptionally bright"? maybe for a baseball player, i guess.
2007-10-02 08:23:12
349.   Daniel Zappala
345 I don't think a pet peeve is something that makes you angry, but in a cute way. It's something that frustrates you, but that you realize you can't change. For example, I hate when people use "which" when they should have used "that", and I frequently have to let it slide because I see it far too often to change it every time. This is an annoyance, but one I am willing to live with.

There is a whole range of things between "not angry" and "murderous rage", but it would take me too long to categorize them all.

2007-10-02 08:26:02
350.   D4P
Of course, the whole point behind my "pet peave" statement was to spell "peeve" as "peave", a la Peavey.

Oh well.

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-10-02 08:27:03
351.   al bundy
Jason Bay was mentioned much earlier in the thread but I thought I'd mention that about two-thirds through the season, Marc Normandin at BP did an extensive review of Bay's sunken stats. His conclusion was that Bay has lost almost all of his pull power.

Here's Normandin's conclusion from the last 2 paras of his lengthy article:

http://tinyurl.com/3aoeom

"Unless it's down the middle, Bay can't do much with it when it's inside. He's still hitting the ball in the center and outside parts of the plate though, which you can see reflected in the directional chart and hit charts above.

Bay's pull power is what made him such a great run producer; without that, he's just like those players he has been compared to throughout his career. The league needs its Rusty Greers, Jeff Conines, and Bobby Higginsons, but the Pirates need the 2005 of Jason Bay, and it's very likely that's something that has already been lost to history."

2007-10-02 08:27:25
352.   Andrew Shimmin
There is a whole range of things between "not angry" and "murderous rage", but it would take me too long to categorize them all.

See? Murderous rage/indifference is more efficient.

2007-10-02 08:29:55
353.   Bluebleeder87
In many ways not really caring about the outcome of this game made it much more enjoyable to watch.

Well said LAT. on another not you really gotta hand it to Matt Herges I really feel he & Josh Bell deserve WAY more credit then what radio sports guys are giving them they both pitched absolutely brilliantly in a MUST WIN game, really gutsy performances by both of them.

2007-10-02 08:30:55
354.   caseybarker
Greg Peavey would be a great draft pick for 2010.

For now, he is a Beaver.

2007-10-02 08:37:57
355.   Kevin Lewis
Has anyone seen a good photograph or video angle of the play at the plate? The ones TBS kept replaying last night did not offer anything conclusive.
2007-10-02 08:45:32
356.   Jon Weisman
Regfairfield, everything I find says that Furcal receives $13 million in 2007 and $13 million in 2008. Where do you see it differently?
2007-10-02 08:45:48
357.   Bumsrap
350 - I got your Pet Peave thing and was enjoying the posts that basically kept saying they missed it.

I also get a kick out of posters picking apart my proposed trades or youthful pitching dreams. I just find it more friendly to suggest trades or scenarios that won't happen than venting my dislike for a player on the Dodgers and post that I want them to go or that I would be happy to just get a PTBNL for them.

2007-10-02 08:46:05
358.   Jon Weisman
(including bonuses or what have you) He also gets $4 million deferred in 2009.
2007-10-02 08:46:08
359.   caseybarker
It looked to me like Holliday's hand was initially blocked from the plate, but that it could've grazed the plate just after as the catcher's legs were spread across the plate.

It's interesting to me that two close calls affected the Rockies last night--the one at the plate (positively) and the one on Atkins' double in the seventh (negatively).

2007-10-02 08:49:36
360.   Kevin Lewis
359

That is how it looked to me, but I would love to see a good angle. I think no matter what the problem was the throw (short hop to a catcher) and Barrett not catching the ball. Those two things would have taken care of it completely and there would be no room for argument. I sort of feel bad for the Padres fans, kind of like I feel bad for Britney.

Oh, Trevor Hoffman does not seem to handle these high pressure situations too well.

2007-10-02 08:52:44
361.   Bumsrap
What about the dirt sandwich Holiday ate with his head first slide into a shin guard? Whether he touched homeplate or not is the spilled milk Padre fans get to cry over.
2007-10-02 08:53:42
362.   Andrew Shimmin
350, 357- I got it. It's my policy to ignore puns the way I ignore people who dress up as Goths, or children. It's not D4P's fault, exactly, that he thinks puns are funny, but I refuse to participate in what should be embarrassing for him.
2007-10-02 08:53:51
363.   regfairfield
358 There we go, I've had the wrong information all along. Maybe I took "before 2009" to mean 2008. Apologies.
2007-10-02 08:55:02
364.   Bumsrap
362- Other than post 362?
2007-10-02 08:57:23
365.   Daniel Zappala
I got D4P's pun and enjoyed it. I just can't resist responding to misinformation.
2007-10-02 08:58:47
366.   Andrew Shimmin
364- It's a meta post, responding to someone else's response. I checked my by-laws; I'm in the clear.
2007-10-02 08:59:50
367.   Andrew Shimmin
Is Zappala the one with the "meta" pet peeve, or is that Jon?
2007-10-02 09:05:37
368.   Daniel Zappala
There will be no better replays, otherwise TBS would have shown them last night. The ump was in the right position to make the call, the replays don't prove he was wrong -- ergo, the Padres have nothing to complain about (and rightfully, neither their manager nor Hoffman has pointed a finger at the umps). I consider it unethical to blame an umpire for a bad call when there is no way you can see it better than he did through the available replays on TV. Anyone who dares oppose me will be reported to PETU, People for the Ethical Treatment of Umpires.

The Padres only have themselves to blame for not winning one of their last three games. The human element of umpiring is part of what makes baseball a great game.

2007-10-02 09:06:31
369.   Daniel Zappala
367 Not I.
2007-10-02 09:07:02
370.   D4P
I just wish I had a replay to show Bob that LaRoche was clearly tagged on the back of the head by the Braves' catcher.
2007-10-02 09:12:34
371.   Kevin Lewis
368

Well said, and I agree. The Padres really only have themselves to blame for this epic meltdown. Hoffman was only one strike away this weekend, and he couldn't get it done. That has to hurt. To see this and the Mets collapse has put things in perspective for me. At least I was able to give up on the Dodgers two weeks ago. The scene at Shea stadium this weekend just looked so painful. As a fan, I can empathize with that kind of heartache.

2007-10-02 09:15:59
372.   ryu
This probably will never happen, but ... we have the technology to replace the home plate umpire in calling balls and strikes. A machine still would not be perfect, but I imagine it could do a better job than humans. For one thing, it would be more consistent with the calls. Using such a machine would cut down on the number of questionable ball/strike calls.
2007-10-02 09:16:09
373.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.

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