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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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October 7 Open Chat
2007-10-07 05:38
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Comments (105)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-10-07 06:13:28
1.   Mark T.R. Donohue
Hey, who else woke up early to watch Liverpool and Spurs?

Anybody? Anybody?

2007-10-07 08:22:50
2.   bhsportsguy
1 No NLCS hangover? At least the Broncos get a day to themselves.
2007-10-07 08:28:33
3.   old dodger fan
My hope for the day.

Yanks lose.
ARod goes hitless, fans boo him.
ARod says, "I don't need any more of this".

Don't awaken me from my fantasy please.

2007-10-07 08:30:52
4.   Greg Brock
1 {waves hands}

Yesterday may have been the best college football day ever.

2007-10-07 08:35:46
5.   Bob Timmermann
4
Too tired.

I spent much of my day in Pasadena. But overall, I spent the day with two friends visiting from Canada who are big Notre Dame fans. Jacob L borrowed my extra ticket and watched in astonishment and experienced great internal conflict over whether or not he wanted hated Stanford or hated USC to lose. Or just see his Bears go to #1, which they didn't.

I missed all the baseball action, but I will be home today to catch all the exciting action and then get tomorrow off for Columbus Day to recharge the batteries.

Last night's odd feature was sitting in my section at the Rose Bowl and then turning around to watch the monitors in the press box show the USC-Stanford game end.

2007-10-07 08:37:48
6.   D4P
Columbus Day

Was that the guy who discovered that there was already a bunch of people living in what we now call "America"...?

2007-10-07 08:39:35
7.   Marty
5 Were those friends the beer-loving ones?
2007-10-07 08:42:05
8.   Bob Timmermann
7
Yes, but they opted not to drink any beer since they were pretty beat and it was fairly late. I treated them to dinner at Cafe Bizou, which at the time was full of disgruntled UCLA fans.
2007-10-07 08:42:47
9.   Bob Timmermann
6
If the Powers That Be tell me not to come in to work, I'm not coming in.
2007-10-07 08:45:32
10.   Greg Brock
I cleaned up on the UCLA game, by the way. Karl Dorrell may be the worst coach in UCLA history, but he's pretty great for the pocketbook.
2007-10-07 08:47:33
11.   Bumsrap
I am now officially rooting for ASU and Berkeley.

I posted this before but worth saying again. It looks more and more like the Dodgers vet/rookie mix wasn't so much the problem as it was the Dodgers misfortune to play the Rockies too many times at the end of the season. The Rockies are destined.

But if Ned wants to think the Rockies and Diamondbacks are winning because of their very young players as opposed to inspite of their young players, that is fine with me.

2007-10-07 08:49:48
12.   Mark T.R. Donohue
2 When I got home I was pretty spent, so I did my post and then I went to sleep. Now I'm up, but I should have slept in... Tottenham is going to win this one 2-1. Stupid Robbie Keane.
2007-10-07 08:52:00
13.   Mark T.R. Donohue
And by the way, death to the freakin' Broncos. I hate those cut-blocking, 'roid-shooting SOB's.
2007-10-07 08:52:27
14.   Bumsrap
8 - disgruntled UCLA fans -- As if there were another type of UCLA fan.
2007-10-07 08:54:10
15.   KG16
11 - let's not give Ned the idea that Arizona and Colorado are winning in spite of their young players. That's the kind of thinking that is going to get us all kinds of PVL this off season.
2007-10-07 08:55:01
16.   KG16
14 - just during football season, basketball season is another story
2007-10-07 08:57:45
17.   Bumsrap
15 - OK, then I will say that AZ and CO are winning with young players to spite Neds current conversations with Frank.
2007-10-07 08:58:31
18.   Mark T.R. Donohue
Fernando Torres just nailed an absolute beauty of a header to tie the Liverpool game in the 92nd minute. Liverpool has been looking for a competent striker for about as long as the Cubs have been looking for a competent third basemen (they may need to look still), so that's good news. Has my fan luck finally changed?
2007-10-07 09:00:31
19.   Bumsrap
16 - Unless the Bruins don't win the NCAA Championship.
2007-10-07 09:05:09
20.   Gen3Blue
3 Works for me and add Sox win.

Actually, very little is intruding on my fantasy. Every playoff game has gone my way except the Arizona ones. To ask much more would be greedy.

Speaking of greed, I am the worst kind of football fan. I pay no attention unless the Patriots are dominating, and then I jump in waving flags.

2007-10-07 09:05:44
21.   Mark T.R. Donohue
Man, no more soccer... guess it's time for Hair Helmets on Parade, the NFL pregame shows.
2007-10-07 09:06:45
22.   Greg Brock
19 Find me one UCLA fan who is disgruntled over the last two years of UCLA basketball. You can't. There aren't any.

Try again.

2007-10-07 09:27:46
23.   Bob Timmermann
19
That kind of disgruntled fan started to die out in the late 1980s.
2007-10-07 09:29:03
24.   Greg Brock
21 Quite the escape by Liverpool this morning.
2007-10-07 09:31:17
25.   Mark T.R. Donohue
If they'd lost to Spurs in the same week as blowing a completely winnable group-stage ECC game against Marseille, I'd have been cranky. But obviously my teams have some good-luck mojo going for them right now. Except the NFL Bears -- they are beyond mojo right now.
2007-10-07 09:38:55
26.   underdog
13 Hallux and underdog put a pox on thee for thine cursed words!

(Of course, not living in Denver helps me remain a Bronco fan; if I did I'd probably hate them, too.)

And yes, did watch a bit of the footie this morning, indeed Liverpool escaped by the hair of their chins.

Speaking of which, off to play some meself.

2007-10-07 10:15:50
27.   KG16
anyone know what the afternoon football game is in Southern California? We get San Diego or San Fransisco?
2007-10-07 10:20:49
28.   Mark T.R. Donohue
Looks like it's San Diego-Denver. The always-fascinating NFL coverage distribution maps are here:

http://tinyurl.com/2kwg6l

2007-10-07 10:21:50
29.   Bob Timmermann
27
My listings say San Diego at Denver.
2007-10-07 10:31:10
30.   KG16
28/29 - thanks guys, especially for the map. It must be too early in the season for me, because I just haven't been able to get into any football - college or pro - at all this year.
2007-10-07 10:35:06
31.   Bob Timmermann
30
Strangely, I rarely watch pro football, but I usually know which game is on.
2007-10-07 10:37:32
32.   KG16
31 - a better way to avoid it?

Perhaps it's the writer in me, but I'm always looking for a compelling story, and right now, I'm not seeing one. Except for South Florida. And here's hoping they and Hawai'i run the table just to mess with the BCS.

2007-10-07 10:51:19
33.   Bob Timmermann
College football 2007 -
Longest current winning streak - Cincinnati, 9 games
South Florida is ranked ahead of Southern California
UCLA still is tied for first in the Pac-10 despite nearly all of its fans giving up hope.
Colorado could be playing in the Fiesta Bowl.
Illinois could be playing in the Rose Bowl.
2007-10-07 10:56:54
34.   Mark T.R. Donohue
I always turn games on on Sundays, but mostly I nap through them. Compared to a soccer or basketball game the amount of actual activity in an NFL or college football game seems hardly worth the time investment, and every sports talk radio and TV show I tune in all week is going to endlessly break down the few interesting things that do happen. It really doesn't take all that much effort or devotion to keep tabs on what's going on in football, and that's kind of why I resent it. Baseball fans put in the work.
2007-10-07 11:02:39
35.   Bob Timmermann
34
You mean like when my brother called me during the Padres-Rockies tiebreaker and I gave him descriptions of each of the Rockies conga line of relievers they used?

"Well, Corpas is the best one."
"Herges I can't explain."
"Julio is in. The game's over."

2007-10-07 11:07:37
36.   Mark T.R. Donohue
35 Yes. Explaining Matt Herges is hard.
2007-10-07 11:41:31
37.   KG16
34 - for my money, there's no sport more exciting than water polo, but I played it for nearly 10 years (and may start again). It's like soccer, only more compelling.
2007-10-07 11:49:36
38.   Bumsrap
22
One? Only one? Myself, I have been a Bruin Basketball fan starting with Gail Goodrich and have never stopped rooting for them, I even found Lavin likeable. But I am sure I can find one disgruntled Bruin during the last two years. What do I win if I do?
2007-10-07 12:02:49
39.   Bob Timmermann
38
You get a gift certificate to the Disgruntlement Store. There's only one location and one clerk who works there. And he doesn't get paid a lot.
2007-10-07 12:12:24
40.   Greg Brock
38 You win five Stanley Nickels and two Schrutebucks.

But only if you kill them because they are morons.

2007-10-07 12:21:22
41.   Bob Timmermann
Cal is now #2 in the AP poll. They haven't been #2 since 1937. But they were #1 in 1951. They just didn't stop at #2 on the way there.

USC is #7
The other USC is #10

UCLA actually got two votes.

However in the coaches poll, the other USC is 7 and USC is 11.

So I think other coaches must like Pete Carroll more than Steve Spurrier.

2007-10-07 12:44:08
42.   Linkmeister
41 UH remained at #16, which is a relief considering that its defense gave up 37 points yesterday.
2007-10-07 12:54:22
43.   Bob Timmermann
In the LA Times today, there is an interview with Vin Scully about his decision to come out to L.A. with the Dodgers. This question and answer revealed a lot about his style:

Q: What do you remember about that first Dodgers game at the Coliseum in 1958, a game against the Giants that drew 78,672?

A: It was overwhelming. I had never seen a crowd like that. The roar was the thing I had always loved, going back to when I was 8 years old.

Back then, on Saturday afternoons, I would listen to college football on network radio. We had a great big radio that stood on four legs. I would crawl under it with a pillow so the speaker was directly over my head. It didn't make any difference who was playing. When somebody scored and the crowd roared, that sound came down like water from a shower head and I would get goose bumps. Wow, did I want to be there.

I was very fortunate because, around the time we arrived in Los Angeles, the transistor radio became really popular. That turned out to be a great break for me. I realized I was really talking to the crowd. It kind of helped my style, because I'm not so much an announcer as just a guy talking to you.

2007-10-07 13:20:23
44.   underdog
Here in SF, where I'd like to see the Broncos Chargers game, they have the Niners-Ravens game instead, of course. Which excites me less than a game of badminton.
2007-10-07 13:35:19
45.   xaphor
Liverpool, ha! I don't pay attention to the clubs below us. :P
2007-10-07 13:49:26
46.   trainwreck
Brock, who do you want as the next UCLA head coach?
2007-10-07 13:50:05
47.   trainwreck
I guess I should just ask that as a general question to all UCLA fans, since I doubt there are many KD supporters left.
2007-10-07 14:03:44
48.   GoBears
Just popping in, so I don't know if this was mentioned, but for all you Springsteen fans out there, including Jon, he's apparently the feature story on "60 Minutes" tonight.

I now return you to your regular programming....

2007-10-07 14:14:56
49.   Dodgers49
Steinbrenner: Torre out if Yankees don't pull through

>> Owner George Steinbrenner delivered a stern message for the Yankee manager yesterday, saying Torre most likely would not keep his job unless the Yanks overcome their deficit against the Cleveland Indians and reach the AL Championship series. <<

## In the interview, Steinbrenner also predicted Alex Rodriguez will remain with the team.

"I think we'll re-sign him," Steinbrenner told the paper. ##

http://tinyurl.com/37zm4b

2007-10-07 14:51:41
50.   Bob Timmermann
As for a new coach for UCLA, I would want some coach who would either:
1) not use the West Coast Offense
2) use the West Coast Offense, but recruit the next Joe Montana to run it.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-10-07 15:06:21
51.   Dodgers49
Maybe they just weren't aware that Wells and Tomko were available:

West really is best in the National League

>> and when three starting pitchers were lost to injuries in the second half, the Rockies simply stuck with their from-within philosophy and promoted the two best arms they have ever had — Ubaldo Jimenez and Franklin Morales. <<

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21169494

2007-10-07 15:09:09
52.   KG16
50 - would you settle for the next Steve Young?
2007-10-07 15:11:38
53.   KG16
49 - so then, we are all rooting for Cleveland tonight?
2007-10-07 15:55:26
54.   Gen3Blue
43 Great stuff!
2007-10-07 16:07:26
55.   Bluebleeder87
3

I can't help but agree with you Old Dodger Fan

2007-10-07 16:10:20
56.   trainwreck
I am guessing there has never been a playoffs were all the division series were sweeps.
2007-10-07 16:15:50
57.   regfairfield
Asdrubal Cabrera for Eduardo Perez is looking like a pretty bad trade for Bill Bavasi.

At the time: promising middle infield prospect for the right handed half of a DH platoon

Now: The Indians second baseman for Baseball Tonight analyst.

2007-10-07 16:37:54
58.   goofus
I hope Colorado beats Phoenix but I won't cry if Phoenix wins, I like both of them. Either of them against Boston would be an awesome World Series. Looking at teams who are winning, the message is loud and clear: You have to have guys who hit home runs. If you can't grow them, you have to buy them. And finding one to buy is going to be tough...
2007-10-07 16:47:42
59.   ToyCannon
Who is Phoenix? Are the Suns in the baseball playoffs?
2007-10-07 17:19:13
60.   Greg Brock
46 Haven't really thought about it. I guess Mooch would be on the list, but with a simpler offense. I don't have the first clue who they'd be interested in, or the money they will pay.

A younger head coach with head coach experience, basically. And they have to be competent.

2007-10-07 17:19:43
61.   xaphor
I'd like to see Denver and Ohio in the finale, but I'm expecting Massachusetts to win out over Phoenix.

Let's hope New York doesn't get back into it because they are just no fun.

2007-10-07 17:37:24
62.   Kevin Lewis
8

Cafe Bizou is amazing. I need to go their more often for lunch.

2007-10-07 17:39:50
63.   Robert Fiore
Let's hope New York doesn't get back into it because then we can hire Joe Torre. And as long as we're doing that we could hire Walt Jocketty too.

This has got to be one of the worst Autumns in Southern California sports history, with the Dodgers, Padres, Trojans and Angels all going into the dumper since Labor Day. How it ranks is a Timmerman question, I suppose.

2007-10-07 18:14:32
64.   KG16
63 - well, looks like we're going to need to wait a couple more days until we have the presser announcing Torre as the new Bums manager.
2007-10-07 18:21:40
65.   Izzy
43.
One of the highlights of this last year was waiting in line at Holman field, for Vin to come down from his plywood anouncing booth, and then getting his autograph. He is a very gracious person. It was late and there were only a few people, but he signed for everyone, right there, alongside the lake. It's hanging on my wall now. I think it will be there for some time.
2007-10-07 18:29:16
66.   Louis in SF
64

I think if the Yankees lose and Torre is let go, Torre will retire or take some executive post with the Yankees...A comment in the Nor Cal papers over the weekend had Dusty perhaps coming back to the Dodgers, if the Grady run sours in mid-season. Given the Ned connection that may not be that far fetched.

2007-10-07 18:32:38
67.   Bob Timmermann
63
Hey, UCLA football went into the dumper in that same time period!

We want respect for our dumper residence.

2007-10-07 18:32:44
68.   Gen3Blue
Well, Cleveland was up 2-0 and got ahead 3 0r 4 to zip, but then they let the Yankee offense off the mat. I'm afraid that could do it for this year, and the only way I will like it is if that Yankee offense gets to Arizona. Of course I will be glad to be wrong at any of the several critical points ahead. Once unleashed, this years Yankee offense will be hard to stop.
2007-10-07 18:35:09
69.   Bob Timmermann
So when did the Yankees become an unstoppable force of nature?

They're just like all the other teams still playing in the postseason. They have their good points and their bad points.

They're going to need to get a win out of a Mike Mussina start. But I guess Stanford is an unstoppable force of nature now.

2007-10-07 18:40:47
70.   Frip
These Yankee radio announcers are a cancer. I can't believe New Yorkers don't riot in the streets to get rid of them.
2007-10-07 18:42:36
71.   Bob Timmermann
70
The Yankees and Steinbrenner like them so the fans opinions don't matter that much.

USC has to put up with Pete Arbogast on the air and online!

2007-10-07 18:51:32
72.   regfairfield
Do we still want Torre as a manager after he pinch hit for Giambi with Minky?
2007-10-07 19:01:43
73.   Reddog
Who would have a better chance against the Red Sox, Cleveland or the Yankees?

My guess is Cleveland.

2007-10-07 19:03:49
74.   Bob Timmermann
73
I would say the Yankees would have a better shot against Boston just because they've had success against the Boston bullpen.
2007-10-07 19:11:01
75.   StolenMonkey86
A comment in the Nor Cal papers over the weekend had Dusty perhaps coming back to the Dodgers, if the Grady run sours in mid-season.

The "Don't Fire Grady Little" bandwagon begins.

2007-10-07 19:17:06
76.   regfairfield
73 Cleveland. They're the exact same team as Boston, just worse at it, while the Yankees have some pretty big flaws.
2007-10-07 19:41:58
77.   RIYank
Hey there.

The Yankees did win the season series against Boston. But then, they destroyed Cleveland in the season series, so that shows how much the season series means.

2007-10-07 19:42:44
78.   RIYank
Oh, and Bob, they may not have to get a win from Mussina. Wang will pitch tomorrow.
2007-10-07 19:45:33
79.   KG16
75 - and the existential crisis among DT commenters begins...
2007-10-07 19:56:43
80.   Gen3Blue
I admit I've been negligent about checking in, but during the season I'm afraid the Yanks offense did become a force of nature. With about 4 innings left vs. Cleveland, they could have checked out quietly, or headed back to the mean. And now I think they could be a pain in the rear, although I hope they catch another negative streak.
2007-10-07 20:10:50
81.   sporky
75/79 - (brain fizzles)
2007-10-07 20:37:45
82.   LAT
For a long time I have avoided boarding the "Fire Carl Dorrell" bus. (This site is a regular stop). I always believed that Carl was just a season away from putting it all together. He would win lots of games and then lose the easy ones. He would have a mediocre season and then have a monster upset. Each season he appeared on the verge of taking the program to the next level but just couldn't catch a break. With a little time and no major injuries I thought he would get there. But yesterday landed me on the bus.

It wasn't the injury to Ben Olsen or the horrible performance by his replacement. It was the rest of the team. They offensive line looked unprepared and confused. The team incurred stupid penalties against a lesser team. The defense could not force a turnover from one of the worst offenses in college footbal. UCLA might have lost due to its QB situation but the rest of the team looked confused and, more importantly, uninspired. And that has to be put on Dorrell. I expected Bethel-Thompson to be misguided--not the rest of the team.

Save me a seat on the bus.

2007-10-07 20:40:20
83.   LAT
I would take Joe Torre over Dusty any day of the week. Heck, I'll take Grady over Dusty. No Dusty. Not now. Not ever.
2007-10-07 20:42:39
84.   yankz
80 "And now I think they could be a pain in the rear, although I hope they catch another negative streak. "

Why? Are quick series more interesting?

Pretty cool that a lot of you want Torre. There's a very vocal anti-Torre population amongst Yankee fans.

2007-10-07 20:53:51
85.   nick
Let me warn you all, Torre won't handle the bullpen very well (though obtaining Scott Proctor in advance could be a cunning tactic!)--and he'll be reluctant to play the young guys if he's supplied with canny vets by the front office. Is this what Dodger Thoughts wants to see?
2007-10-07 21:02:24
86.   sporky
85 - So basically Torre = Grady. Only Grady's cheaper.

Grady > Torre > Dusty. I can't believe I typed that.

2007-10-07 21:03:43
87.   sporky
86 - I just said Torre = Grady, and then Torre < Grady... Pretend there's no math involved.
2007-10-07 21:06:06
88.   silverwidow
Diamond Leung dropped a hint that we are after Mike Lowell.

So, not only does that eliminate LaRoche from the plans, what happens with Nomar and his no-trade clause?

2007-10-07 21:37:45
89.   Robert Fiore
It's certainly possible that a GM who decides Juan Pierre gets on base a lot without actually consulting his on-base percentage could have trouble seeing beyond a .230 average. A player in his mid-30s who hits 21 home runs playing half his games in Boston would seem to be the generic Ned Colletti veteran signing. In this scenario LaRoche would most likely be traded.
2007-10-07 21:38:11
90.   MJW101
If Ned signs Lowell then Kent and LaRoche get traded for pitching and Nomar plays 2b almost as badly as Kent, but without the Kent offense.
2007-10-07 21:56:57
91.   trainwreck
No, we want A-Rod Or Nobody!
2007-10-07 22:08:11
92.   Daniel Zappala
I'm in the ARATP Society. A-Rod and trade Pierre.
2007-10-07 22:14:01
93.   Robert Fiore
The question McCourt has to ask himself is, is it worth another $35 million a year to be guaranteed a playoff spot every year? If Rodriguez is available then the Dodgers are in a position to buy themselves a championship level team if they want to pay the cost.
2007-10-07 22:18:47
94.   Eric Stephen
71 USC has to put up with Pete Arbogast on the air and online!

How do you do!

2007-10-07 22:23:38
95.   Bob Timmermann
94
I've got Trojan Rewind set to record so I can hear Arbogast's call of the crucial plays.

I'm a bitter and petty man sometimes.

2007-10-07 23:03:21
96.   natepurcell
Colletti can't be that retarded to give Mike Lowell 50 million can he?
2007-10-07 23:04:23
97.   natepurcell
offseason is so easy....

sign arod.

there. We are contenders next year.

2007-10-07 23:37:34
98.   Dodgers49
Dodgers fans don't have to worry about Bill Plaschke anymore. He's turned his attention to The Angels:

Moreno needs to make good on promises to Angels fans

>> But now Moreno needs to bring in a hired bat to swat them over these first hurdles, and if it can't be purchased, it must be pried loose in a trade.

If he can buy Alex Rodriguez, he needs to buy him. If he can buy Torii Hunter instead, do it.

If he can't buy the thunder, then he needs to order Stoneman to find it elsewhere, even if it means trading some of the club's youngsters, both from the bullpen and the lineup <<

http://tinyurl.com/2fwxb5

2007-10-08 00:04:00
99.   KG16
98 - I saw that, looks like he did a find and replace job on his Dodger columns, find and replace Frank McCourt with Arte Moreno, find and replace Ned Colletti with Bill Stoneman.

It's amazing that his solution to both teams problems are the same: sign A-Rod.

Yeah, that's some hard hitting analysis there.

No talk of being completely over matched by Beckett in game one. No talk of being with out Mathews. Or of Rivera missing most of the season.

It's hard to believe I once took this guy seriously.

2007-10-08 00:06:01
100.   Bob Timmermann
I think the Angels should sign Sasha Cohen.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-10-08 00:19:06
101.   bhsportsguy
98 2008 Angels Guaranteed Contracts

1. Garret Anderson - $12 million (2009 Team Option $14 million or $3 million buy out)
2. Orlando Cabrera - $8 million plus $1 million bonus (FA after season)
3. Kelvim Escobar - $9 million ($9.5 million for 2009)
4. Chone Figgins - $4.75 million (Will be a free agent after 2009 season)
5. Vlad Guerrero - $14.5 million plus $1 million bonus(2009 Team Option $15 million or $3 million buy out)
6. John Lackey - $7 million (2009 Team Option $9 million or $500K buyout, if Angels do not execute option, Lackey will be a free agent after 2008 season)
7. Gary Matthews Jr.- $9 million (signed through 2011)
8. Kendry Morales - $500K (signed through 2010)
9. Darren Oliver - $2 million (FA after 2008)
10. Robb Quinlan - $1.05 million (FA after 2008)
11. Scot Shields - $4.25 million (signed through 2010)
12. Justin Speier - $4.25 million (signed through 2010)

The Angels have around $77 million in guaranteed deals, they will have to sign K-Rod again, he made $7 million this year and can be a free agent after next season.

2007-10-08 00:29:08
102.   bhsportsguy
The Rockies better sell a lot season tickets next year, Garrett Atkins and Brad Hawpe are both arbitration eligible after this season and Matt Holliday signed a $4.4 million deal for 2007 and can be a free agent after the 2009 season. Oh and Scott Boras is Holliday's agent. I say look for a 2 year deal for $25-$30 million.
2007-10-08 05:56:13
103.   Andrew Shimmin
Lowell could play 3B, and Nomar could move out to LF after Ethier and/or Kemp get traded for Steve Trachsel.
2007-10-08 08:18:38
104.   Kevin Lewis
88

Mike Lowell looks really weathered in his MLB photo. Has he been working on the docks for the past thirty years?

2007-10-08 08:32:57
105.   Terry A
63 - A Jocketty/Torre combo would be a more accomplished version of Colletti/Little. Jocketty's neglect of the farm system -- and his belief that prospects are useful only as trade bait -- will be glaring now that someone else will have to clean up afterwards.

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