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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Grandma, What Big Eyes You Have
2007-10-12 08:25
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

So, I think a lot of us are realizing how hard it is going to be for the Dodgers to win the National League West next season.

Not that there was that grand a difference between Los Angeles and the two NLCS finalists during the regular season - again, we're basically talking about a win a month. But the Dodgers certainly aren't lapping the field.

The Rockies, Diamondbacks and Padres all battled injuries in 2007, yet all finished ahead of the Dodgers. Outside of the Alex Rodriguez longshot, there isn't a whole lot the Dodgers can do in the free agent market to make a huge difference. There are definitely things that can go right for the Dodgers in 2008, but are they stuck until Clayton Kershaw and James McDonald or some such start making an impact ... maybe not until 2009?

Considering Colorado's slow start to 2007, for example, is there really much reason to think they'll do worse in 2008?

It's going to be some pennant race next year - that just about seems certain. Based on what is likely to happen during the offseason, what do you expect the 2008 NL West standings to be?

Comments (279)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-10-12 08:39:28
1.   D4P
Considering Colorado's slow start to 2007, for example, is there really much reason to think they'll do worse in 2008?

Well, Matt Holliday will have a glossy book this offseason, and I'm guessing it won't dwell much on his home-road split.

2007-10-12 08:41:16
2.   Andrew Shimmin
1. D'backs 122-40
2. Rockies 92-70
3. Dodgers 87-75
4. Padres 82-80
5. Giants 12-150
2007-10-12 08:42:50
3.   D4P
Dodgers' record in games not against Giants:

87-63

2007-10-12 08:43:19
4.   LogikReader
Jon, I think it is prudent to point out that the Dodgers had their own share of injuries, but primarily in pitching. Not too many teams can overcome 3/5 of the rotation going down for most of the year.

Loney will get a chance to play the whole season. Kemp figures to do the same. Ethier could be either platooned or traded. Gonzalez is out, Pierre can't possibly play any worse. Furcal figures to be healthy.

The Dodgers should at least get 3rd place, since the majority of the team is already set into place, including the rotation.

Things will change if Ned decides to tinker...

In my hummmmble opinion, I think the entire Rockies pitching staff is peaking at the right time. This might be shades of White Sox 2005. I won't expect that kind of pitching two years in a row, but I am open to suggestions to the contrary.

2007-10-12 08:45:42
5.   D4P
Pierre can't possibly play any worse

He certainly can, especially as his speed declines with age.

2007-10-12 08:45:59
6.   Jon Weisman
4 - I thought it was understood/stipulated that the Dodgers had injuries too. But you're right.
2007-10-12 08:48:00
7.   LogikReader
Andrew, if the Diamondbacks really win 100 games or more in '08, I'm sending you a gift basket.
2007-10-12 08:49:43
8.   Improbable88
Wow. Really? 122 wins for the Diamondacks? They are the one Western Division team I expect a big letdown from next year.

I think Giants fans know they will stink next year.

2007-10-12 08:49:58
9.   JoeyP
1. D'backs 91-71---this time with a legit pythagorean record
2. Rockies 88-74
3. Padres 82-80
4. Dodgers 82-80
5. Giants 70-92

Repeat of last year.
Plug Loaiza into the Tomko/Hendrickson role.
Plug LaRoche into the Loney role, with Nomar being the roadblock.
Plug Juan Pierre into well, Juan Pierre.

Dbax/Rockies should be good again.
Padres will slip.
Dodgers stay the same.
Giants stay the same.

2007-10-12 08:53:16
10.   Andrew Shimmin
The forty games they lose will only come after the league declares that the D'backs have to spot the team they're playing 12 runs, every game for the remainder of the season, because Congress threatened to revoke their anti-trust exemption, otherwise.
2007-10-12 08:53:26
11.   JoeyP
I think the entire Rockies pitching staff is peaking at the right time

That might be.
But it could be that Morales/Jiminez are legitate top of the rotation guys.
Jeff Francis is solid.
Aaron Cook should be back next year.

The Rox will never win based on their pitching anyways. Its their bashing of the ball that carries them. Hawpe, Holiday, Atkins, Tulo, Helton arent going to get any worse.

If they can deal Tavares in the off-season and play Spillborgs full time in CF, they could be the best offense in the league easily, regardless of park factors.

2007-10-12 08:59:02
12.   ToyCannon
Ask me on April 1st.
2007-10-12 09:05:12
13.   Bumsrap
Leaving AROD out of the equation for everybody, the team most likely to weaken itself druing the off season is the Dodgers. The untinkered with team most likely to improve is the Dodgers as well.

Going into 2008 the Dodgers should have one less weak arm in the outfield and perhaps play more games with more speed at second base.

Nomar could have a decent year at third and LaRoche might contribute there as well--something mostly missing last year from third base.

2007-10-12 09:07:39
14.   underdog
Yeah, I abstain on this question until spring training. I see no reason to believe the Dodgers can't improve next year, too, regardless of how strong the division is next year. I expect the DBacks to regress, frankly. I expect the Rockies to compete. I expect the Padres to slightly regress. I expect the Giants to be about the same. Given all that, and some dead weight potentially cast off by the Dodgers, and hopefully a less injured pitching staff with more youth involved, I expect a bit of an improvement (separate even from the A Rod question, which may be rhetorical at this point.)
2007-10-12 09:11:03
15.   Bumsrap
Also, the Dodgers could add two strong starters in June--Kershaw and McDonald, and if Miller can find his control, he could make the rotation out of spring training.
2007-10-12 09:15:52
16.   D4P
and perhaps play more games with more speed at second base

If that means Abreu, then it probably also means less power and OBP at second base.

2007-10-12 09:16:01
17.   Gen3Blue
Without much thought at this early point.

Colorado
LA
Arizona
San Diego

San Fran

2007-10-12 09:16:32
18.   Hythloday
I think Ned and Frank are probably looking at the NLCS and thinking the same thing. Only they see it and know that a) they're have the biggest payroll in the NL West, b) they can't merely compete for the playoffs. For better or worse this probably puts them more in the position of throwing money at A-Rod. If you're the biggest market team in the division with the biggest payroll you can't be content to merely compete with our youngsters against theirs (even if it is advisable) because on the surface it leaves too much to chance. They have to throw money at someone. I just hope it is an actual difference maker.
2007-10-12 09:16:50
19.   Ben P
I am worried about the Rockies, but less so the D'Backs. Yes, they are young and will get better, but how much better? Will their offense really improve that much without some big signings? Upton, Young and Drew could all have better seasons, but they're starting from the basement in terms of NL offenses. I also don't see their starting pitching getting much better without some additions.

I don't see the Padres improving much on their own either. Who in their starting lineup can we expect to be significantly better next year? Maybe Kouzmanoff, though his ceiling doesn't seem that high to me. And their current outfield is old and injury-prone.

2007-10-12 09:18:50
20.   LogikReader
All I know is this, very few sportswriters are picking Dodgers to finish in first place next year. That should work to our advantage.

---

I remember there was one year, I think it was 2004, where the Steelers did not have a single Monday night game and probably just one Sunday night game... remember that team? They only finished 15-1. Predictions based on the last year are hard to do.

2007-10-12 09:19:27
21.   dkminnick
15 I hope you're right, but I fear Ned is especially reluctant to use young pitchers in key roles - even more so than position players.

I would not be surprised to see our current pitching staff supplemented with NRI's (as opposed to rookies) in 2008. Which would not be good.

2007-10-12 09:20:56
22.   caseybarker
I would pretty much rule AROD out as Boras' demands have risen to a decade at 35-40 mil per MLB Traderumors.

And don't count out Elbert for next year.

2007-10-12 09:22:19
23.   bhsportsguy
I was just looking at the 2006 standings this morning and although you have to account for added experience and personnel changes, the best finish any of the 4 finalists had last year was 3rd place and all of 4 teams finished double digit games behind the division winner.

Baseball could be becoming more like football in the sense that a lot of teams are so closely matched that just the randomness of an injury, an emergence of a new player, sometimes maybe one error in a key game could swing the difference. Yes, larger payrolls do help but they are no guarantees to success.

It certainly won't be easy but I think every team in the NL West can say that but I will take the easy way out and say I will wait until Spring to make a prediction.

2007-10-12 09:24:36
24.   LogikReader
20

Very few... picking the Dodgers to finish in first...

That is, if A-Rod isn't signed... which seems probable.

--

I heard an interview with John Sherholz (sp?) this morning, and in it, he criticized the ridiculousness of A-Rod's potential 300 million dollar contract, to a point where he said that anyone who goes for it is "idiotic". Score one for sanity.

ps: I think 30 mil a year for A-Rod is reasonable, but it should be more like a 5 year, 7 year contract.

2007-10-12 09:25:41
25.   das411
This post was rushed? I thought it was more like six months or so in the making...

20 - So you think it'll be the Dodgers who go 122-40??

2007-10-12 09:29:22
26.   D4P
I wonder if Boras's employees use glossy books of themselves when negotiating their own contracts and such.
2007-10-12 09:37:42
27.   Andrew Shimmin
I've started sending glossy books to people I'm bidding against on eBay, for purposes of intimidation. Response has been mixed.
2007-10-12 09:38:14
28.   bhsportsguy
Apparently there are no other crimes to investigate in the Greater Denver area.

http://tinyurl.com/2b77ac

2007-10-12 09:38:41
29.   Humma Kavula
24 I don't mean to pick on you, but this is an idea that I've heard a lot -- that A-Rod at $30 million/year is insane.

No, I disagree. Torii Hunter at $18 million is insanity. A-Rod, with everything he brings to the franchise -- wins, merchandise, bigger TV deals, butts in seats -- is worth so much more.

There is a point at which A-Rod becomes too expensive -- did somebody above say $40 million per? -- but $30/year is, in this market, not it, in my opinion.

2007-10-12 09:40:23
30.   caseybarker
"Dunskie"?
2007-10-12 09:41:02
31.   jasonungar07
Ned: You believe a computer can beat me?
Paul: I don't care, but yes.
Ned: Well I will prove you wrong.
Paul: I don't care, and you won't.
Ned: You'll see.
Paul: I won't be watching, and I won't.
2007-10-12 09:43:22
32.   LogikReader
29

Right you are, Humma K. I noted that 30 million was reasonable towards the end of 24 . I guess I was just pointing out that many folks think that 30 mil is a ton no matter what the implications.

No offense taken :)

2007-10-12 09:44:32
33.   Scanman33
31-Who is Sprinkles: Hee Seop Choi or J.D. Drew?
2007-10-12 09:47:01
34.   Humma Kavula
32 So you did. That's what I get for not reading all the way to the end.

So we all agree! A-Rod for $30million. Done. Anybody have Boras's number? Somebody should let him know.

2007-10-12 09:48:26
35.   caseybarker
30 mil for five years, or 30 mil for 10 years?
2007-10-12 09:48:37
36.   D4P
Anybody have Boras's number?

(666) 666-6666

2007-10-12 09:52:10
37.   Bumsrap
16 - If that means Abreu, then it probably also means less power and OBP at second base

It could be Abreu or a player obtained in a trade. In either case second base is not typically filled with a team's clean up hitter. Players have two roles, defensive and offensive. Offensively speaking, the urgency of Kent having more power than Abreu or Abreu having more speed than Kent has more to do with whether or not both are hitting in the same spot in the batting order--or something like that.

2007-10-12 09:52:17
38.   Humma Kavula
36 (666) 666-6666

You have reached Hell. Your call is not even remotely important to us. Due to high call volume, waits may be up to 28,107,204,570,437,730 years. Please continue to hold. Mr. Boras will be available shortly, in geologic terms.

(cuts to hold music; plays "I Just Called to Say I Love You" 93 times in a row)

2007-10-12 09:53:08
39.   bhsportsguy
36 I just don't get it, what should he do, not get the best deals for his clients. If you think it is too much, don't pay it. The Yankees are going sell tickets behind homeplate for $1000.00 each at their new park. Is there anyone telling them that they can't charge those prices.

Maybe I am jaded a bit because I have been around the law game for long time but Scott Boras is only doing his job when he makes a good deal for his client. He is not responsible for the health of the game or fair distribution of talent.

2007-10-12 09:53:20
40.   Johnson
22 And don't count out Elbert for next year.

While we shouldn't forget about Elbert by any means, next year may be too early. He pitched in all of three games in April before having surgery on his throwing shoulder. '08 will only be his age 22 season - I'd guess the club will take it slow with him, give him a lower workload this year (even if he's 100%) and have him gunning for an '09 midseason call-up.

2007-10-12 09:54:57
41.   JMK
How about offering AROD $30 million for 7 years but giving him opt outs for every year after 3 years. AROD and Boras would likely opt out after 3 years, but the Dodgers would get 3 years of AROD while he's still in his prime.
2007-10-12 09:55:00
42.   Bumsrap
If it is going to be about money with AROD, he already has an option for something like $93 Million for the next three years.
2007-10-12 09:59:40
43.   Hythloday
29 - The problem is that if Torii at $18 is insane, but he gets it, then A-Rod would be stupid to take $30. If other people are getting insane offers then he should only consider equally insane offers.
2007-10-12 10:01:35
44.   JMK
Would you rather have a 3 year $90 million dollar guaranteed contract or a 7 year $210 million dollar guaranteed contract?
2007-10-12 10:02:25
45.   Humma Kavula
43 That's a good point. It's a vicious circle that feeds on itself...

Round
Like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning
On an ever-spinning reel
Like a snowball down a mountain
Or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel thats turning
Running rings around the moon
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping
Past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple
Whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind

2007-10-12 10:10:42
46.   Hythloday
Wait, wasn't Sting just named the worst lyricist? But here he is talking about the problems of free agency. I'm confused.
2007-10-12 10:11:00
47.   wronghanded
Call me an idealist but I think the Dodgers will improve next year:

A. Full seasons of Loney, Kemp, Ethier
B. A full season of Billingsley as our #3
C. No dead weight batting 3 and 5 (Nomar/Gonzo)
D. A full season of Schmidt as our 4 (maybe a pipe dream)
E. Loaiza as #5 > Tomko or Hendrickson (even a slight improvement here helps)
F. I'm still not sold on the D-Backs starting rotation sans Webb
G. I'm still not sold on the Rockies starting rotation sans Francis
F. The Pads have Peavy, and 1/2 good Young, 1/2 bad Young...still no offense

Prediciton:

Dodgers 92-70
Rockies 85-77
D-Backs 83-79
Padres 81-81
Giants 75-87

2007-10-12 10:11:58
48.   wronghanded
*H.
2007-10-12 10:15:27
49.   D4P
C. No dead weight batting 3 and 5 (Nomar/Gonzo)

It's nowhere close to a given that Nomar won't get enough PAs in the 3/5 spots to hurt the team.

2007-10-12 10:16:14
50.   wronghanded
49 True but at least its not Nomar and Gonzo
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-10-12 10:18:11
51.   BlueCrew Bruin
39 For me, it's not so much the dollar amount. I mean, hey, if someone is willing to pay it then get as much as you can. I think the idea that Boras pressures his clients into signing with the team that offers the most money regardless of the other factors involved (geographical location, probability of winning a championship, etc) is what turns people off. If this is what actually goes on, I think it has more to do with pride and giving himself more ammo to sell himself to future clients than greed on Boras' part. He's already got the reputation but imagine the line of clients waiting to sign up with the agent that got AROD $300 mil.

Granted, I do think his clients should be in control enough to make their own decision regardless of Boras' recommendations. However, I think a lot of players are very hands-off when it comes to contract negotiations and it seems like it wouldn't be too difficult for an agent to color the negotiations one way or another to steer his client towards a certain team.

That's all just food for thought...I'm not trying to call Boras out as unethical or anything since I obviously have no idea how he conducts his negotiations. Other than, you know, the glossiness.

2007-10-12 10:18:26
52.   Improbable88
46 What publication named Sting the worst lyricist?

I think most of the Frankenstein stuff (Every Breath You Take, Wrapped Around Your Finger, King of Pain)off Synchronicity is pretty well written for pop music.

2007-10-12 10:19:21
53.   Humma Kavula
46 Sting sang that song, but he didn't write the lyrics. That was Marilyn and Alan Bergman. And they won the Oscar for it.
2007-10-12 10:21:24
54.   LogikReader
52

Blender Magazine. Who the heck runs that magazine anyway? All of their "Top 100 Best or Worst" lists are way off.

2007-10-12 10:22:10
55.   fracule
Hmm. This is fun, because I am bored.
Hope springs eternal.

Dodgers 95-67
Rockies 90-72
Padres 82-80
Dbacks 82-80
Giants ----*

* Due to some bunk travel arrangements en route to an
overseas pre-season game, the entire team was captured
by pirates. In a cruel twist of irony they were forced to
help manufacture synthetic hormones for dairy cows.
Upon their release on June 16th Bud Selig, learning of
their horrible acts, suspended them for the rest of the
regular season.

2007-10-12 10:29:04
56.   Andrew Shimmin
Gonzalez was not dead weight in the line up. Ethier was only a very little bit better (offensively) than LuGo this year.
2007-10-12 10:32:27
57.   BlueCrew Bruin
55 It will later be discovered that the "Pirate" was Jim Tracy (who had refused to give up his uniform after being fired). The bizzare plot being designed to capture Dave Roberts as part of Tracy's twisted attempt at re-creating the '04 Los Angeles Dodgers. Secret service will then be assigned to protect the New York Mets for the remainder of the season.
2007-10-12 10:34:01
58.   Improbable88
52 What song(s) did they use in support of this claim?

They realize he didn't write the PDiddy version of "Every Breath You Take," right?

Sounds like a grudge move.

2007-10-12 10:35:39
59.   silverwidow
G. I'm still not sold on the Rockies starting rotation sans Francis

Jimenez and Morales look like future stars. Two power pitchers to compliment Francis and you've got a really tough rotation.

2007-10-12 10:36:40
60.   fracule
56 Don't forget Lugo also stole 6 bases and was only caught twice. Ethier was caught 4 times. I realize that really means nothing, but hey lets not hark on guys who gave us relatively serviceable seasons just because management is making the right moves.
2007-10-12 10:38:54
61.   fracule
Sorry, to change the subject, but since a lot of us like the 'Office' what did you think of last night's episode?
2007-10-12 10:39:44
62.   fracule
60 Ok, I meant isn't, please don't kill me.
2007-10-12 10:42:45
63.   Andrew Shimmin
61- The cool kids often talk about The Office over here:

http://screenjam.baseballtoaster.com/archives/840931.html#lastcomment

D4P stops in from time to time, to, but don't let that stop you.

2007-10-12 10:43:06
64.   Bob Timmermann
61
There's a discussion of it on Screen Jam.
2007-10-12 10:46:12
65.   fracule
Thanks guys. I'll see you over there.
2007-10-12 10:46:40
66.   Andrew Shimmin
I was faster and linkier, but I used "to," instead of "too," so the victory is decidedly hollow.
2007-10-12 10:48:30
67.   Gen3Blue
51 Yes. I didn't want to get going on this,
but I'll just add that young men in there twenties often can be misguided about what is important in life, or might be later on to them. And on and on...Is this society too much about money...baseball used to be a sort of escape.
2007-10-12 10:49:07
68.   scareduck
36 - strange, but I always thought Newport Beach was a 949 call.

Schuerholtz is right about the ridiculousness of Boras' demands. All the hype about A-Rod's butts-in-seats and peripheral nonsense is just that. The problem with A-Rod at that price is that, well, you still have the rest of the team to fill out, and in the absence of a LOT of good, young players, the team suddenly looks mighty thin.

A-Rod's whining on the way out the door from Texas (where he knew he would be the big dog on a relatively young offensive club) is exactly why I would never ever want to see him wear the colors of any team I rooted for. New York is the ideal place for him; there he can stay, and let the Yankees and their bloated budgets fester should he prove to be Griffian in his dotage.

2007-10-12 11:07:32
69.   CajunDodger
68

I want ARod. I do not think that we will get him, though. Here is what I think we could do. Trade either Ethier or Young for some pitching and sign Bobby Abreu. I know the outfield defense could be better, but the following lineup could win lots of games:

Furcal
Pierre
Kemp
Abreu
Kent
Loney
Martin
LaRoche/Nomar

Along with some better pitching out of the 4-5 slots, we could be right where we need to be. I think that doing nothing will not improve our team enough offensively. It is doing too much that Ned has the issue with. Abreu would provide us with some pop, speed, OBP and a decent right fielder for a relatively short (3-4 years) contract. He would also not block anyone that is better.

2007-10-12 11:07:44
70.   scareduck
As to today's topic of discussion...

Rockies: I do believe that Ubaldo Jimenez and Franklin Morales are the real deal. Aaron Cook (if he can stay healthy, a big if) and Jeff Francis are solid rotationmates; and it's been pretty well established that the Rocks can actually hit, and then some (second in the league in runs scored). What fooled people for so long, I think, and what kept them out of contention, was using the wrong pitchers in the first half or simply not having them available (Jimenez and Morales). With impressive defense (that Tulo sure can pick 'em, can't he?) and a generally young team, these guys could be in a very good place over the next several years, the big possible drawback being regressions from said pitchers. That said, I don't think this is a 95-win team, either.

San Diego: The oldest rotation in the league will necessarily get worse. They've got the best 1-2 in the division and maybe the league, or did until the emergence of Jimenez in Colorado. Their offense is pathetic, and with little in the farm, 2007 may have been a last gasp for the current team construction. Sandy Alderson will sleep well at night, though, because I expect some phenomenal drafts.

Los Angeles: All rests on Ned Colletti. Does he have the courage to let the kids play? There are some encouraging signs (Kemp, Loney, and Billingsley all finally got starting jobs this year) and some not-so-encouraging signs (signing Pierre, Wolf, and Schmidt were ill-advised, and similar moves on the bench turned up sewage). I don't want to make it sound like it's all kids=good, vetruhns=bad, but the ex-Giants/ex-Red Sox parts of the Dodgers rostter assembled by Colletti have definitely stunk.

San Francisco: FINALLY recognizing that the Barry Bonds era is over, and they're in a full rebuilding mode. Peter Magowan must be hating life.

Arizona: Along with Colorado, the class of the division, but it's a thin line separating these guys from the Dodgers. They're going to have to get those young hitters hitting, and beating their Pythagorean totals again will be a challenge.

So: my scientific wild-@ss guess about next year's finishes:

Rockies: 90-72
Dodgers: 88-74
Diamondbacks: 86-76
Padres: 82-80
Giants: 74-88

2007-10-12 11:10:15
71.   Hythloday
68 - and in the absence of a LOT of good, young players, the team suddenly looks mighty thin.

This sounds like a team I know.

2007-10-12 11:11:03
72.   D4P
Regarding the Rockies nobody has commented on 1 . Is Holliday not eligible to leave or something...?
2007-10-12 11:11:56
73.   Disabled List
Even without any major moves, I think the Dodgers will improve somewhat on the 88-win pace they were on before they ran into the Rockies' buzzsaw in September. Furcal should be healthy (hopefully), full seasons out of Billingsley, Loney and Kemp will help, and the team can't possibly be snakebit by injuries for a fourth year in a row. Can they?

Unfortunately, I figure it's basically gonna be a replay of 2002, when the Dodgers had a solid 92-win season but still finished in 3rd place. The Rockies and D-Backs will also be improved, and will probably finish with 90-95 wins apiece. Maybe the breaks will finally go our way, who knows.

2007-10-12 11:18:37
74.   Mark T.R. Donohue
Matt Holliday won't become a free agent until AFTER the 2009 season. That's TWO more years. I forget this all the time because it's written so often that he's leaving after this year or the next.

Jimenez and Morales are 23 and 21 and they are pitching effectively in the major league playoffs right now. They might not be dominant next year. They have a lot of development left to do, particularly Jimenez, who isn't really seriously trying to control any of his secondary pitches right now. But they are unlikely to completely fall off the cliff, barring injury.

2007-10-12 11:25:59
75.   RIYank
If Mariano Rivera hits the free market, will the Dodgers bid on him? Competitively?
2007-10-12 11:27:28
76.   D4P
Who needs Rivera when you've got Proctor.
2007-10-12 11:30:44
77.   Bob Timmermann
75
Can you promise that Mariano Rivera won't give up ninth inning homers to Matt Holliday that won't be shown over and over again on TBS?

I think Mariano Rivera would definitely have to change numbers if he came to the Dodgers. There are only some places where 42 can be "unretired" and L.A. isn't one of them.

That said, I doubt the Dodgers would be interested in Rivera.

2007-10-12 11:33:44
78.   sporky
77 - 'Twas Helton, no?

The Dodgers have much cheaper closers. They should put their saved money in the ARON piggy bank instead.

2007-10-12 11:35:21
79.   RIYank
76 From your lips to Ned Colletti's ears. Uh. From your keyboard to his monitor.

77 Yes, I can certainly promise that he won't give up ninth inning homers to Holliday that won't be shown over and over. If he gives up homers like that, they will be shown over and over again.
Good point about the #. And LA is the last place to unretire it, I get that.
And, good. I guess the Mets would be the main bidders.

2007-10-12 11:36:44
80.   wronghanded
I think young pitching usually has an advantage when called up midseason, their is no advanced scouting report on them (see Wainwright last year). That said, I think Colorado's league leading 3.86 ERA in the second half is a bit of an abberation. Those pitchers will certainly be servicable big league arms, I just expect to see their numbers drop off a little. Lets see how their wings hold up starting 32 and dealing with some adversity that starting in Colorado will surely bring.
2007-10-12 11:38:28
81.   Scanman33
77-Come on...Rivera has "been there" and "knows what it takes to win".
2007-10-12 11:43:32
82.   Bob Timmermann
Helton, Holliday, they all blend together.
2007-10-12 11:45:15
83.   D4P
From your lips to Ned Colletti's ears. Uh. From your keyboard to his monitor

Ned doesn't use a computer, thank you very much. We don't like those kinda GMs.

2007-10-12 11:50:56
84.   sporky
Dusty Baker to the Reds? Oh please, please please let it be true.

http://tinyurl.com/27o5bx

2007-10-12 12:08:31
85.   delias man
Even 30-40 mil per year for ARod does not seem that outrageous. In 2010 and beyond that may not seem too bad, sort of the way Beltre's deal in 2008 seems ok at 13M. In 2005 it looked outrageous.
2007-10-12 12:11:54
86.   delias man
Rivera's # is not as important to him as $.
2007-10-12 12:20:02
87.   Sam DC
DC people get in line -- I hear tickets for this are a tougher buy than the Springsteen shows that are also that week.

http://tinyurl.com/2c44l6

2007-10-12 12:23:27
88.   underdog
I could see Rivera going to the Mets, yeah. Or several other teams. Heck, if Roberto Hernandez thinks he can still pitch, why not Mariano? But I don't see him coming to LA.
2007-10-12 12:26:37
89.   Eric Stephen
57 ,70 The Padres were 4th in the NL in runs scored on the road. Their offense isn't that bad.
2007-10-12 12:31:22
90.   D4P
The Padres also out-OPSed their opponents by 58 points at home.
2007-10-12 12:35:38
91.   Eric Stephen
89 In fact, the Padres scored more than the Rockies on the road. Taking out the fact that 10 Padres road games were in Coors Field, here are the two offenses, away from both Coors & Petco:

SD - 369 runs / 72gms = 5.13 r/gm
Col - 348 runs / 72 gms = 4.83 r/gm

Granted, the Rockies have more young players, likely to improve, than do the Padres. But, the Padres offense isn't pathetic, that's for sure.

2007-10-12 12:39:26
92.   dsfan
Jon,

Maybe I read it wrong, but in your lead item, it seemed to imply that the Padres outpaced the Dodgers despite "battling injuries."

I could be wrong, but I believe the Dodgers were less fortunate than the Padres in terms of health. The Padres' pitching staff enjoyed far better health; the Dodgers lost Schmidt, Wolf, Kuo, Tsao and Brazoban. Yes, Chris Young was hindered over the final two months, but so was Derek Lowe. The Padres likely suffered more on the position-player front, but I don't think Furcal was right all season.

I tend to believe the Dodgers deserved what they got with the pitching injuries -- Colletti and Conte in particular as it applied to Schmidt -- but it seemed like the carnage was above the norm.

2007-10-12 12:42:17
93.   Bob Timmermann
87
Sam is going to use this opportunity to subpoena Lasorda and make him explain under oath why he had Niedenfuer pitch to Clark in 1985.
2007-10-12 12:55:30
94.   Jon Weisman
92 - I won't argue with you; I'm just not really looking to split hairs over which team had more injuries. It's not really my point.
2007-10-12 12:59:31
95.   bhsportsguy
Greg Miller is pitching today in Arizona, through 1 inning, 2K, 1 BB, 3 hits and 3 runs given up. He made 27 pitches and had 18 strikes.
2007-10-12 13:07:28
96.   CajunDodger
85
I think that paying ARod that much money is no more outrageous than the Bulls paying Jordan almost $30 mil his final year in Chicago. Jordan could have been paid $60 mil and still made money for the team.

A-Rod will hold similar value to whatever team he goes to when he is on the verge of the HR/hits/RBI records which are all within his grasp if he continues to play at this level for the next ten years. If I had the money and I had a good young core to build around, I would pay him the money and continue to develop youth around him as best I could.

Kind of a hybrid Moneyball/Yankeenomics model.

2007-10-12 13:08:11
97.   Eric Enders
Wow, I just realized that you can use Gameday for the AFL games. Sweet!
2007-10-12 13:11:15
98.   Eric Enders
Miller has just allowed another run, as a misplay in center field by Cameron Maybin allowed the leadoff batter to run around the bases unmolested. 28 of Miller's 35 pitches have been in the strike zone according to Gameday.
2007-10-12 13:15:14
99.   MikeB
Leo Mazzone out after two seasons in Baltimore. Who is the current Dodgers pitching coach?
2007-10-12 13:16:35
100.   Eric Enders
Won't Mazzone just go back to Atlanta? Cox is still there. The only reason Mazzone left in the first place was because he was best friends with Sam Perlozzo. I'm sure the Braves wouldn't mind moving Roger McDowell to bullpen coach or something.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-10-12 13:20:13
101.   MikeB
99. Rick Honeycutt. All those trips to the mound this season. How soon I/we forget.
2007-10-12 13:29:05
102.   MikeB
Boy, the list of starting pitchers available via free agency this off-season is pretty depressing.
The old, the infirm, and the just plain awful . . .
http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency.php
2007-10-12 13:30:23
103.   D4P
The old, the infirm, and the just plain awful . . .

Ned is intrigued...

2007-10-12 13:32:10
104.   LogikReader
Oh you know, Ned will go for one of them, D4P. Although I'd be ok with Paul Byrd.
2007-10-12 13:39:00
105.   Bluebleeder87
Gonzalez was not dead weight in the line up.

I don't know but I've always considered the word dead weight kind of like a bad word, it just sounds so cold/evil (little pet peeve I guess) but yeah, Gonzalez was serviceable for the 1st half of the season, I haven't looked at the #'s but that's the impression that I got.

2007-10-12 13:39:04
106.   Eric Enders
102 "The old, the infirm, and the just plain awful . . ."

Heck, that's probably good news to Ned. If you look closely, almost every single pitcher he has ever acquired falls under at least one, and often more than one, of those categories.

Baez - just plain awful
Carter - just plain awful
Hernandez - old, just plain awful
Maddux - old
Wells - old, infirm
Tsao - infirm
Seo - just plain awful
Schmidt - infirm
Saito - old
Tomko - just plain awful
Hendrickson - just plain awful
Dessens - old, just plain awful
Wolf - infirm
Seanez - old, infirm
Loaiza - just plain awful
Beimel - um....

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, your winner is... Joe Beimel! The only pitcher ever acquired by Ned Colletti who was neither old, infirm, or just plain awful.

2007-10-12 13:40:12
107.   Eric Enders
Oh, I forgot Sele - old, infirm.
2007-10-12 13:42:23
108.   Sam DC
93 More interested in having Plaschke declared an Enemy Combatant.
2007-10-12 13:46:46
109.   KG16
Schmidt, Lowe, Penny, Loaiza, Billingsly, Kuo, Hendrickson, and maybe Wolf, plus a couple of kids as mid-season call ups... I'm pretty sure that the starting rotation/spot starter part of the roster is taken care of. Unless Schmidt and Kuo aren't going to be back.

Really, the only place that the Dodgers can (and probably should) improve is third base. Second base becomes an issue if Kent decides to retire (and my hunch at this point is that he will), and so there is a possibility for improvement there. But if we work on the assumption that Pierre isn't going anywhere, I don't see anyone that really improves the outfield - the fact that so many have given up on Ethier after his second season is just absurd.

Let's give this team another year to play together without Line Up Roulette™, and see what happens. If it doesn't work, if there isn't marked improvement, fine, then let's start looking for big moves.

2007-10-12 13:47:24
110.   Sam DC
Dave Sheinin cracks me up: "The game action on TBS during the NLCS makes for some fine programming breaks in between "Frank TV" promos."
2007-10-12 13:47:32
111.   Bluebleeder87
106

Saito (wonder what category he falls in?) was a Ned Colletti acquisition via our great Asian scouting department from what I remember.

2007-10-12 13:48:28
112.   Eric Enders
111 Which is why he appears on the list.
2007-10-12 13:51:01
113.   Jon Weisman
106 - When Ned acquired Beimel, he was a 29-year-old Tampa Bay/Minnesota/Pittsburgh castoff who had pitched 12 2/3 major-league innings since 2003. He spent most of the previous year with Single-A Durham, posting a 3.93 ERA at age 28. The year before that, he had a 6.97 ERA in AAA. Awful is exactly what I thought of him at the time.
2007-10-12 13:53:54
114.   D4P
Awful is exactly what I thought of him at the time

And then Ned touched him, and he turned to gold.

2007-10-12 13:57:47
115.   Dodgers49
After watching Ned Colletti operate last off season I'm afraid to make any predictions about the Dodgers for 2008 until I see what he does this off season.
2007-10-12 14:03:29
116.   Bluebleeder87
I just looked at
Joseph Ronald Beimels #'s (Baseball-Reference.Com) & his last 2 years with the Dodgers have been his best years.
2007-10-12 14:04:17
117.   Frip
109 "Let's give this team another year to play together without Line Up Roulette™, and see what happens."

I agree with your face. Getting some big star like A-Rod seems like a copout. Let's do it the old fashioned way and uhnnnn---it.

2007-10-12 14:04:51
118.   Bluebleeder87
115

I'm on wait & see mode as well Dodgers49, this is his 3rd year with the Dodgers so I'm sure he's learned from past mistakes, but we shall see.

2007-10-12 14:15:45
119.   JimBilly4
I still feel strongly that all Arod speculation should be tabled until he actually becomes a free agent (exercises his get-out-of-Manhattan free card). You can't buy what isn't available.

That being said, I will violate my own principle and mention that his decision almost certainly has to be about more than money. I am sure he has a monster ego that requires big bucks to soothe, but just about any contract he is likely to see will ensure he is the highest paid player in baseball.

Over his career, Arod is going to make roughly a half a billion dollars playing baseball. Could it really matter that much to him whether it is 475 or 510 million? It must mean more to him to play where he thinks he is going to be happy. A city he would like living in, fans that would appreciate him, management that would not give him a hard time, etc.

My gut feeling is that Arod is going to decide which big payroll team he wants to play for, using his own non-monetary criteria, and then tell Boras to get him there for as much money as he can. As long as the team crosses some critical threshold, probably 7 year x 30 million, they will get Arod. Obviously it will be critical to the negotiation process that no one knows this but Boras and Arod.

L.A. has the advantage of being a city well suited to cater to the needs of big, big stars. It has a lot of latino roots and culture. It has a great fan base without being quite the insane fishbowl of New York, i.e. a bit more laid back. It has a great young squad of talented players that should make winning teams in the years to come.

Negative is that the clubhouse appears to be in a bit of a mess, with the old/young split. Despite the big payroll, the Dodgers have not been regular post-season contenders, although 2 in the past 4 years is not so bad.

I am sure there are other important things to Arod that it would be hard to even guess at from the outside. I also assume that any team that is not willing to entertain the "starting" 7x30 figure will be out. I.e., no team that is not drooling at the chance to get Arod will not get him. Is Colletti drooling? Is McCourt?

Could I get a saliva check at 1000 Elysian Park?

2007-10-12 14:19:14
120.   Andrew Shimmin
The only time I'm comfortable making predictions is when they clearly can't be taken seriously.
2007-10-12 14:30:27
121.   Sagehen
106 Are pitchers ever available unless they are "old, infirm, or aweful"? Or incredibly over-priced? Penny, for example, fell into the "infirm" category when we obtained him.
2007-10-12 14:32:26
122.   Marty
Penny fell into the infirm category after we got him. His first start was a 2 hit shutout.
2007-10-12 14:33:45
123.   D4P
Ned's OIA fetish isn't limited to pitchers.
2007-10-12 14:42:08
124.   Andrew Shimmin
Today is the last day to vote for the Baseball Prospectus's 2007 Internet Baseball Awards. You have to be a member (either a paid account, or a free basic account) to vote.

http://baseballprospectus.com/iba

2007-10-12 14:43:53
125.   Dodgers49
Is there any doubt that Boras is the best at what he does?

Boras hints at 12-year contract for superstar slugger

>> Alex Rodriguez's agent, Scott Boras, dropped a hint that they may be seeking a 12-year deal in an interview with SI.com on Thursday. Boras spoke enthusiastically about the superstar's value over a "12-year span'' and suggested it would be higher in years 8 through 12 because of the records he'd be chasing and breaking. One thing seems sure: These high-stakes negotiations won't go easily or quickly. <<

## Cashman asserted again to SI on Thursday he will not negotiate with Rodriguez should he opt out. ##

%% But Boras countered he doesn't believe the Yankees would or could stick to that plan and potentially kill any chance at a deal over a measly $30 million %%

http://tinyurl.com/2q7z7l

2007-10-12 14:45:13
126.   Jon Weisman
I haven't been mentioning Screen Jam lately, but I posted there about Friday Night Lights mainly to remind people to watch.
2007-10-12 14:45:50
127.   D4P
125
Can other agents really get national media coverage if they want to "drop hints"? I don't buy it. The media goes a long way toward making Boras what he is.
2007-10-12 14:47:32
128.   Eric Enders
119 "I will violate my own principle and mention that his decision almost certainly has to be about more than money."

I believe there is zero chance that the decision will consider any factors other than money.

Remember, it's not even A-Rod's decision. It's Boras's decision. A-Rod has to go wherever Boras tells him to go. That's part of the deal when you sign with Boras. And Boras will tell him to go to whomever offers the most money. End of story.

2007-10-12 14:52:14
129.   Eric Enders
106 "Are pitchers ever available unless they are "old, infirm, or aweful"? Or incredibly over-priced? Penny, for example, fell into the "infirm" category when we obtained him."

Your point is well taken, but the part about Penny is false. He was not infirm in the least when we obtained him. He became infirm shortly thereafter, but that's a different story.

DePodesta managed to obtain a few pitchers who were neither old, infirm, nor awful. Penny, Lowe, Brazoban, Duaner Sanchez.

2007-10-12 14:55:06
130.   Dodgers49
Padres' Hoffman has bone chips removed from elbow

>> SAN DIEGO -- Padres closer Trevor Hoffman had arthroscopic surgery to remove a few small bone chips from his right elbow. He's expected to be ready by spring training. <<

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10404321

2007-10-12 14:58:53
131.   Eric Enders
A healthy Hoffman may be an advantage for the rest of the division, as he's really not that good anymore, but he will nonetheless have a lock on the closer's job as long as his arm remains attached to his shoulder.
2007-10-12 15:08:50
132.   bhsportsguy
If you don't have premium access to BaseballAmerica.com, then you can't read the chat regarding PCL prospects. But if you do, you will find that all the Dodger questions were asked by ToyCannon using various identities. Now, I only know for sure that he asked one question but Mr. Quagmire has to be Toy Cannon.
2007-10-12 15:12:54
133.   Bluebleeder87
I've heard Saito had back issues (stints in the DL) when he was in japan I'm pretty sure that's part of the reason he has a RELATIVELY young arm, I was kind of amazed at how hard he threw this season, at times topping out at 96MPH but steady at 92-94MPH, He's a huge blessing for the Dodgers, & only costing them, what? a million bucks, wow, I'm just glad he's wearing Dodger blue.
2007-10-12 15:13:45
134.   scareduck
128 - if you are a Boras client, you are all (and only) about the money.
2007-10-12 15:13:50
135.   Eric Enders
132 I also asked one Dodger question that got used. I didn't use my own name, though. I used the name of an obscure but memorable ex-Dodger as an alias.
2007-10-12 15:15:12
136.   scareduck
129 - I'm not quite sure that's correct. I seem to recall that Penny had injury questions based on his 2002 season.
2007-10-12 15:15:25
137.   bhsportsguy
132 LaRoche was No.4, Loney was No. 8 and Hu was No. 18, Abreu just missed the list.

They said Young, for now, does not project more than a part-time player and pinch hitter (Lenny Harris type). Meloan was on the second team 2007 Baseball America All-Classification team.

My guess for their projected 2010 Dodger team, Loney, Abreu, Hu, LaRoche, Kemp, Pierre, Ethier and Martin, SPs, Billingsley, Kershaw, McDonald, Elbert, Penny, and Broxton closing.

Who knows if Xavier Paul or someone else will cause the outfield dynamic to change.

2007-10-12 15:15:52
138.   Bluebleeder87
watching ESPN the experts are saying A-Rod most likely wont return to the Bronx.
2007-10-12 15:17:23
139.   Wilbert Robinson
article up at dodgers.com about Pierre being unhappy about a possible move to left. Also Hillenbrand is gone, let us rejoice!

http://tinyurl.com/2nl7uu

2007-10-12 15:17:43
140.   Dodgers49
The question of whether Tulowitzki is as good as advertised came up the other day so I found this interesting:

Lessons learned this postseason

>> Tulowitzki led all major league shortstops in total chances (by 114), double plays and fielding percentage, and an official of one team that closely studies defensive statistics says "the difference between Tulowitzki and the second-place defensive shortstop is greater than the difference between No. 2 and No. 9." <<

http://tinyurl.com/yozrwb

2007-10-12 15:18:15
141.   bhsportsguy
135 I thought the response did not exactly answer your question.
2007-10-12 15:20:19
142.   Eric Enders
141 Yeah, me too.
2007-10-12 15:22:05
143.   regfairfield
140 I'd like to see that metric, because nothing else has him nearly that good, especially when you consider that Adam Everett and this year John McDonald completely lap the field.

113 I'm proud to announce that Beimel was good enough this year that I don't hate him anymore.

2007-10-12 15:22:19
144.   LogikReader
Ok folks, it's almost playoff time. Who do you want to win the Red Sox/Indians series?

I'm going with Indians. Why would anyone think the Indians are boring (for the folks who said they were boring)?

2007-10-12 15:22:24
145.   bhsportsguy
142 Meloan was also named the AA Relief pitcher of the year by MILB.com (minorleaguebaseball.com).

You can go to the Dodgers.com to get some quick updates but for Nate and Canuck and Toy Cannon (and the rest, here is an update on some rehabbing players)

Prospect update: Farm director DeJon Watson reports that pitchers Scott Elbert (shoulder) and Bryan Morris (elbow) are recovering from operations without setbacks and are participating in the Arizona Instructional League. He said Elbert has started tossing, while Morris (who had Tommy John elbow ligament replacement surgery late last year) is throwing 93 mph. Tim Hamulack, who had Tommy John surgery this year, also has begun playing catch.

Top pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw also is in Arizona working on secondary pitches, Lukas May is continuing to refine his catching skills and Preston Mattingly is working on second-base skills.

2007-10-12 15:25:42
146.   ToyCannon
132
He actually answered all of my questions (3) under my normal name. He elaborated on D Young after his Lenny Harris comment so it wasn't as bad as you make it sound.

Just for fun I've just posted my top 30 list over at True Blue now that BA has finished all of it's roundups. Feel free to critique but I just had to get Bastardo and Santana on the list.

I've found that if you thank the host of the chat, the next time they do a chat they seem to remember the thank you and answer your question. I guess they don't get many thank you's since they personally reply to each thank you.

2007-10-12 15:26:49
147.   fanerman
139 Pierre should demand a trade.
2007-10-12 15:26:57
148.   Bluebleeder87
Ok folks, it's almost playoff time. Who do you want to win the Red Sox/Indians series?

That's a no brainer to me, the Indians.

2007-10-12 15:28:37
149.   Eric Enders
Today in the AFL:
Hu 2-4 (both singles)
DeWitt 1-4
Miller 2 IP, 6 H, 4 ER, 1 BB 3 K
Orenduff 2 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K
Wright 1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 1 K
2007-10-12 15:29:48
150.   LogikReader
Pierre: I can't play in left. I want a trade!

Dodgers: uh, ok.

ESPN: Today, shocking news (!) Juan Pierre has been traded to the White Sox for some Socks and a glove. The Dodgers will defray a portion of his salary.

DT: yeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-10-12 15:30:42
151.   Bluebleeder87
147

I'd laugh at any G.M's that would actually want, OH WAIT...

2007-10-12 15:30:48
152.   Eric Enders
It would be better if we got some Sox, some socks, and a glove. But I'll take what I can get.
2007-10-12 15:31:14
153.   ToyCannon
Thank God Hamulack has begun playing catch.

106
I think Eric missed Hamulack and LaMura who I guess would qualify as "awful".

That is a sad history, I guess our scouting dept when it comes to other teams pitchers is not the brightest bulb on the block.

2007-10-12 15:31:25
154.   fanerman
Indians, of course.
2007-10-12 15:31:45
155.   bhsportsguy
146 That is true but I don't think having a Lenny Harris type career is all that bad, its better than most.

149 I like Wright and I would hope that he makes the 40 man roster.

2007-10-12 15:33:03
156.   fanerman
150 I'd be reasonably happy if the Dodgers just paid his entire salary to have him play for some other team.
2007-10-12 15:33:32
157.   regfairfield
153 And Ben Kozlowksi.

I don't think Seo counted in any of the categories when we got him, but he just suddenly lost his control as a Dodger.

2007-10-12 15:33:35
158.   fanerman
Not that it'd happen.
2007-10-12 15:34:31
159.   ToyCannon
145
Thanks, good to see Morris pitching. I still have high hopes for Elbert and Morris. We will need both of them based on the sad history that Eric just gave us.
2007-10-12 15:34:44
160.   CanuckDodger
129 -- Eric, DePo didn't obtain Brazoban and Sanchez. Brazoban came with Jeff Weaver in the Kevin Brown trade, and Evans picked up Sanchez on waivers when the Pirates DFA'd Sanchez.
2007-10-12 15:36:21
161.   Howard Fox
138 that is funny....seeing the terms ESPN and experts in the same sentence just strikes me as funny
2007-10-12 15:43:02
162.   Eric Enders
160 - oops, you're right. Both moves were made a couple of months before DePo took over.
2007-10-12 15:43:33
163.   LogikReader
144 , 148 , 154

Wow, we're all on the same page. Go Tribe (this week)!

2007-10-12 15:46:57
164.   bhsportsguy
I want Boston to win, they have the more Old Friends.
2007-10-12 15:48:55
165.   Eric Enders
In my preseason predictions I actually had Boston beating Cleveland in the ALCS. But I hope the opposite happens.
2007-10-12 15:49:09
166.   Bluebleeder87
TBS friday night programing:

Family Guy
6:00pm to 6:30pm
6:30pm to 7:00pm

ML Baseball
7:00pm till 10:45pm

I'll be in heaven tonight.

2007-10-12 15:51:32
167.   regfairfield
My friend wins a large sum of money on my advice if Cleveland wins, and I picked them to win it all to begin with, so, Cleveland.
2007-10-12 15:52:33
168.   Howard Fox
165 and I, like a fool, re-arranged my travel schedule cause I really thought the Dodgers would do well in the post season...
2007-10-12 15:53:15
169.   Eric Enders
I am currently editing a book in which the author has attempted to choose the 12 greatest games in the history of Dodger Stadium. Here's what he picked:

September 9, 1965
October 6, 1966
June 8, 1968
September 24, 1974
April 25, 1976
October 25, 1981
October 15, 1988
July 28, 1991
August 10, 1995
April 23, 1999
July 5, 2004
September 18, 2006

2007-10-12 15:53:21
170.   Dodgers49
I may be one of the few here who would love to see a Rockies/Red Sox World Series. That matchup holds the most excitement for me.

Of course, a Dodgers/Red Sox or Dodgers/Yankees series would have been better. :-)

2007-10-12 15:55:45
171.   Howard Fox
I'd love to see the Rockies win out...I'd love to see what the know-it-alls at ESPN would say about that
2007-10-12 15:59:16
172.   JimBilly4
128 I am fairly certain Arod can tell Boras no. I admit to being fairly ignorant of the finer details of sports agentry (my knowledge being based mostly on Jerry Maguire and the first season of Arliss), but I think it is Boras who will do whatever his cash cow tells him to do.

A great agent should get his client what he wants AND a ridiculous pile of cash. Boras is just such an agent, I believe, which is why his name brings shudders to the spines of GMs everywhere.

Again, I am not saying that Arod is not a money-grubbing bastard. Just that I find it likely he will take the bazillion dollar deal at the place he wants to play over the bazillion and ten dollar deal that is actually top offer. I mean, he is not going to sign to play with Baltimore or return to Texas, is he? Even if they wheeled up with the 12 year 360 million dollar deal.

2007-10-12 16:03:18
173.   Eric Enders
171 They would say a bunch of NFL scores, probably.
2007-10-12 16:05:18
174.   bhsportsguy
169 Somehow the three game sweep of the Astros in 1980 has to be on that list.

Wihout the aid of any research material, here's my attempt at what happened those days.

1. Swung on and missed strike 3
2. World Series?
3. Downs goes Johnson.
4. I don't know, Garvey hit 2 homers?
5. It was not a great game if we had better security.
6. Reuss v. Guidry, Yeager and Pedro go back to back or was that the day after.
7. She is gone!
8. If you have a sombrero, throw it to the sky or was it Dennis Martinez's perfect game.
9. Nomomania ?
10. No clue
11. Its sad that I don't know that one.
12. 4+1

2007-10-12 16:07:00
175.   LogikReader
11. (from 174 ) is when the Dodgers played the Yankees am I right? I was at that game!

Dave Roberts had a virtual inside-the-parker triggered by a Hideki Matsui miscue.

Retrosheet is screwy at the moment.

2007-10-12 16:08:11
176.   LogikReader
...and 10. might be the one where Fernando Vina hit two Grand Slams in the same inning off Chan Ho Park. Hard for me to forget that one.
2007-10-12 16:09:18
177.   fanerman
176 Do you mean Fernando Tatis?
2007-10-12 16:09:46
178.   LogikReader
11. I guessed wrong... I wonder, what was so special about that game then?
2007-10-12 16:10:15
179.   LogikReader
Was it Tatis? Oh ok... I got the two confused.
2007-10-12 16:11:49
180.   scareduck
169 , 174

11. End of Gagne's save streak.

2007-10-12 16:13:42
181.   LogikReader
11. ah here we go...

http://tinyurl.com/yokasu

Would you believe I was in the Aladdin Casino in Vegas watching this on a huge projection screen when this happened?

2007-10-12 16:14:31
182.   LogikReader
-- I also lost 200 dollars in craps; it was a bad day that day...
2007-10-12 16:16:20
183.   bhsportsguy
180 And that makes it a memorable game?

How about this one that happened a few weeks before.

http://tinyurl.com/yfwo75

2007-10-12 16:18:27
184.   scareduck
169 , 174 , 176 - ah, yes, the two-grand-slams-in-one-inning game.
2007-10-12 16:18:57
185.   LogikReader
183

Fascinating. THIS was the game I was at! The excitement in the crowd reached a fever pitch... it was so electric!

2007-10-12 16:20:43
186.   bhsportsguy
174
2. Sandy's last game.
4. Still not sure unless it was the game that set the all-time appearance record for Mike Marshall.
8. Dennis' perfecto
9. It was a Nomo start but he lost.
10. Tatis' grand day.
2007-10-12 16:21:16
187.   Jon Weisman
169 - Do I even need to say it?
2007-10-12 16:22:03
188.   bhsportsguy
187 You are so right, and I was there.
2007-10-12 16:22:48
189.   scareduck
183 - I was disappointed Roberts was robbed of an inside-the-park home run by the official scorer. But Matsui's misplay was pretty egregious.
2007-10-12 16:25:36
190.   Gen3Blue
28 years later: I fear this clump of films will be forgotten!
2007-10-12 16:26:51
191.   Eric Enders
186 "9. It was a Nomo start but he lost."

Yep. Clue: He lost 9-0.

2007-10-12 16:27:48
192.   LogikReader
Second clue: ball
2007-10-12 16:31:03
193.   Bluebleeder87
180

ugh, I remember that game like it was yesterday, I still think Saenz could have cought that ball, but in all fairness he use to spot start at 1st base & was probably VERY RUSTY.

2007-10-12 16:36:07
194.   Bob Timmermann
191
The final score of that game was NOT 9-0.
2007-10-12 16:40:01
195.   Eric Enders
I think there were a couple that nobody got. Not that I really agree with these choices.

September 9, 1965 - Koufax
October 6, 1966 - Willie Davis/Koufax's last game
June 8, 1968 - Drysdale streak ends
September 24, 1974 - Marshall becomes 1st to pitch 100 games
April 25, 1976 - Rick Monday/flag
October 25, 1981 - Reuss/Guerrero/Yeager
October 15, 1988 - Gibson
July 28, 1991 - Dennis Martinez
August 10, 1995 - Ball day forfeit
April 23, 1999 - Tatis
July 5, 2004 - Gagne streak ends
September 18, 2006 - 4+1

If you're keeping score, five of these things were good for the Dodgers, six were bad for the Dodgers, and one (Monday) was neutral.

2007-10-12 16:40:59
196.   Eric Enders
194 Oh, is that one of those rules that everybody thinks is a rule but actually isn't?
2007-10-12 16:42:49
197.   Jim Hitchcock
and one (Monday) was neutral.

Well, one could make the claim that that incident led to the hiring of Monday as a Dodger broadcaster ;)

2007-10-12 16:43:01
198.   Andrew Shimmin
After seeing fifty thousand different people link to it, I finally relented to reading the article about people marrying robots. In the fifth paragraph there's this: "Not only has science fiction explored this idea, but 40 years ago, scientists noticed that students at times became unusually attracted to ELIZA, a computer program designed to ask questions and mimic a psychotherapist."

So, I went looking for ELIZA, and found her. Not only do I not find myself "unusually attracted" to ELIZA, but she picked a fight with me! After a few rounds, she told me to go away, and that her secretary would bill me. What kind of sicko would fall in love with a haughty snot like that?

http://www-ai.ijs.si/eliza-cgi-bin/eliza_script

2007-10-12 16:45:05
199.   Jim Hitchcock
198 Andrew, did you go all Tony Soprano on her?
2007-10-12 16:47:24
200.   Bob Timmermann
196
Yes. If the game is official and the right team is ahead, the score doesn't change.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-10-12 16:49:47
201.   fanerman
191 194 196 200 I'm not following this conversation. Could you please explain?
2007-10-12 16:49:51
202.   Andrew Shimmin
199- I just demanded that she stop telling me I was being a bit negative. Well. There was also the part where she asked me to elaborate, and I told her to drop dead.

I could tell she was mocking me.

2007-10-12 16:50:17
203.   D4P
I may be one of the few here who would love to see a Rockies/Red Sox World Series

That's what I'm hoping for, with the Rockies winning in either 4 or 7 games. I'd love to see the Red Sox go up 3-0, then lose in 7.

2007-10-12 16:54:12
204.   Eric Enders
201 That was the game that got forfeited thanks to the idiocy of Jim Quick and Joe West (and, of course, Dodger fans). When a game is forfeited, the score becomes 9-0. However, Bob has informed me that that is not always necessarily the case.
2007-10-12 16:54:12
205.   bhsportsguy
Okay, how about an alternate list where you cannot use any of the games that are on Eric's list. (I know its not Eric's list but he brought it up).

Jon already put his on the table.
1. 9/11/83
2. 10/3/80 - Game 1 of the final series of the year against the Astros. Ron Cey delivers a two out single, driving in Rudy Law to tie it up, Joe Fergueson hits a game-winning home run (before those were call walk-offs) and one great Dodger was going out (Don Sutton's last start until his brief return in 1988) and another got his second career win, Fernando Valenzuela.

2007-10-12 16:56:36
206.   Bob Timmermann
(e) CALLED AND FORFEITED GAMES.
(1) If a regulation game is called, the official scorer shall include the record of all individual and team actions up to the moment the game ends, as defined in Rules 4.10 and 4.11. If the game is a tie game, the official scorer shall not enter a winning or losing pitcher.
(2) If a regulation game is forfeited, the official scorer shall include the record of all individual and team actions up to the time of forfeit. If the winning team by forfeit is ahead at the time of forfeit, the official scorer shall enter as winning and losing pitchers the players who would have qualified as the winning and losing pitchers if the game had been called at the time of forfeit. If the winning team by forfeit is behind or if the score is tied at the time of forfeit, the official scorer shall not enter a winning or losing pitcher. If a game is forfeited before it becomes a regulation game, the official scorer shall include no records and shall report only the fact of the forfeit.
Rule 10.03(e) Comment: The official scorer shall not consider that, by rule, the score of a forfeited game is 9 to 0 (see Rule 2.00 (Forfeited Game)), notwithstanding the results on the field at the point the game is forfeited.
2007-10-12 16:57:46
207.   Jon Weisman
The Finley Grand Slam game?
2007-10-12 16:57:59
208.   fanerman
204 I vaguely remember the game but I don't really recall the details. Why'd the Dodgers have to forfeit?
2007-10-12 16:57:59
209.   bhsportsguy
206 See what happens when you kid about things like forfeits and interference calls, Bob goes all rulebook on us.
2007-10-12 16:58:39
210.   Jon Weisman
Fernando's first start in '81?
2007-10-12 16:58:44
211.   Eric Enders
205
The Mondesi game -- what was that, Opening Day 1996? 1997?

The game in July 1988 when Kirk Gibson beat the Expos scoring from second on a wild pitch.

Toss your sombrero to the sky.

1988 NLCS Game 2, when the Dodgers beat the holy hell out of David Cone.

Ramon's 18 strikeout game.

2007-10-12 16:59:29
212.   bhsportsguy
207 Its as good any other game.
2007-10-12 17:01:28
213.   Eric Enders
211 Mondesi was actually 1999. Wow. Seems so long ago.
2007-10-12 17:02:05
214.   bhsportsguy
211 Also, Fernando vs. Righetti, both Rookie of the Years facing each other in the 1981 World Series.

Game 4 of the 1963 World Series, when the Dodgers swept the Yankees.

2007-10-12 17:02:16
215.   Jon Weisman
213 - First game I ever took my future wife to. I have a picture of us in front of the next day's sports section.
2007-10-12 17:03:49
216.   bhsportsguy
And who can forget Game 2 of the 1978 World Series.

Bobby Welch meet Reggie Jackson.

The most recent comparison to that was when Broxton took on Prince Fielder.

2007-10-12 17:09:12
217.   regfairfield
208 If you give 56,000 people a baseball, I don't think you can be surprised if most of them end up on the field.

I thought Cowboy Bob Davidson called the game, not Cowboy Joe West.

2007-10-12 17:11:25
218.   Gen3Blue
Oh, that eye that Manny has.
As opposed to Lowells.
2007-10-12 17:11:59
219.   Eric Enders
217 Davidson was the crew chief, but it was Jim Quick who was the plate ump and it was Joe West who kicked Lasorda out.

Unless my memory is failing me, which is very possible.

2007-10-12 17:12:31
220.   Gen3Blue
However Lowell is in his walk year and as good or better than he will ever be.
2007-10-12 17:13:55
221.   bhsportsguy
219 Two out of three is not bad.

http://tinyurl.com/2z9u9d

2007-10-12 17:14:08
222.   Eric Enders
"If you give 56,000 people a baseball, I don't think you can be surprised if most of them end up on the field."

I think you can. I mean, of all the ball days that have ever been held in the history of the major leagues (and the minors, for that matter), that's the only time it's ever happened.

2007-10-12 17:15:40
223.   Eric Enders
I guess Joe West is to me as Paul DePodesta is to Plaschke. I hate him so much that I have no problems blaming him even for things he had nothing to do do with.
2007-10-12 17:15:49
224.   Bob Timmermann
It's Balkin' Bob Davidson.
2007-10-12 17:17:21
225.   Jim Hitchcock
The surprise (or maybe not) is that it only took one idiot to throw the first ball, but that so many other idiots thought it was cool.
2007-10-12 17:24:54
226.   Frip
Why is the camera 3 inches from Wedge's face everytime they show him. He's got a scary fellonious face to begin with. Keep him out of my living room.
2007-10-12 17:35:58
227.   Andrew Shimmin
George Michael's one true love.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wffwg7pA0t8&

2007-10-12 17:37:28
228.   Sam DC
I was at the Mondesi game with my wife too.

If you google "A Happier 9/11," Dodger Thoughts is the first response.

2007-10-12 17:38:07
229.   ToyCannon
So I assume were talking any game at DS, not just games we've been to?

Memorable Games I've seen:
Bill Singer No Hitter
Gibson scoring from second
The Monday Flag game
The final game of the year when Piazza dismantled the Giants
One game I think we hit something like 6 homes and crushed the Reds. I think a young Bill Gullickson was making the start.

Game I wish I'd been to:
Any of the final 1980 games against Houston not including the last one which I did see.

2007-10-12 17:40:11
230.   Sam DC
216 Wasn't that Yankee Stadium?
2007-10-12 17:41:29
231.   bhsportsguy
230 Nope.

Reggie Jackson's hip move was there as well as more Nettles magic.

But Game 2 was at Dodger Stadium.

2007-10-12 17:44:03
232.   Bluebleeder87
219

I remember bits & peaces of that game, I was watching it on t.v. & Vinnie was pretty shocked at the unfoldings.

2007-10-12 17:46:33
233.   Frip
Dumb broadcasters pronounciation of Gutierrez.

Gooty--Erez

as if it's two names.

The i and e blend together. It's not rocket science.

2007-10-12 17:47:27
234.   Bob Timmermann
I am neither married nor did I attend the "Mondesi game."

I feel like I'm not part of the team.

2007-10-12 17:49:58
235.   Sam DC
231 Perils of wikipedia. I thought that game was at Dodger Stadium, but I was so surprised it wasn't already listed that I thought I'd check. So when I googled "Bob Welch Reggie Jackson" the first response was Welch's wikipedia, which says: "Welch gained national fame in 1978 when he struck out Reggie Jackson with the bases loaded and two out in the bottom of the ninth inning of Game 2 of the 1978 World Series."

Shame on me.

2007-10-12 17:52:22
236.   Gen3Blue
Oh, that Manny!
2007-10-12 17:53:45
237.   Gen3Blue
Sabathia seems over his head.
2007-10-12 17:56:16
238.   Bluebleeder87
234

I don't even know what the Mondesi game is, he probably had a really good game that day or something

2007-10-12 18:03:16
239.   Bob Timmermann
238
Apparently, the Mondesi game involved sex.
2007-10-12 18:03:52
240.   Daniel Zappala
I may have been at the Mondesi game. I may not. I believe I was in town, I was married, and we usually went to opening day back then. But I'm afflicted with a truly bad memory once I go beyond a year or two. I would have to check my wife's diary.
2007-10-12 18:04:36
241.   Sam DC
238 It was Opening Day 1999 -- Kevin Brown's first start as an LA Dodger, and against Randy Johnson. Brown gave a bunch of a runs in the middle of the game, Mondy tied it in the bottom of the ninth with a 3 run homer, then won the game with another homer in the 11th.
2007-10-12 18:09:27
242.   Frip
...and Hendrickson with the lead off double.
2007-10-12 18:09:44
243.   fanerman
240 Checking the wife's diary? She wouldn't kill you for that?
2007-10-12 18:12:06
244.   Frip
240 That's hilarious. (But could be heartbreaking. What if she wrote you were bad in bed or something?)
2007-10-12 18:26:02
245.   Sam DC
So, that Padres Rockies playoff used up all the good baseball games this year?
2007-10-12 18:31:30
246.   The Mootz
Oberanski Stanavlaski (no one ever called him by his full name) was deep-sea fishing with his buddy Bob. After three hours of fishing, Oberanski spotted a swarm of activity on the other side of his boat. He hollered for Bob to look at the marine life through his binoculars, and Bob couldn't believe what he saw: five dolphins, three whales, and seven sharks.

However, there were squiggly creatures that Oberanski couldn't quite make out. Upon closer examination it might have been three octopi, but he wasn't certain. He asked Bob to check it out, and he confirmed the diagnosis: "There's only one Oct, Ober."

2007-10-12 18:38:29
247.   Gen3Blue
Sounds uncomfortably like the crying game.
2007-10-12 18:47:40
248.   Marty
Since this is the first cold day/evening in quite awhile, I'm breaking out the cold weather cookery and making a beef stew with onions, carrots, mushrooms, potatoes and kalamata olives. I should be eating by the second half of the rockies game.
2007-10-12 18:50:25
249.   Gen3Blue
248 That sounds like the perfect meal. You must be near the east coast where it has suddenly gone from burrito to Beef stew weather.
2007-10-12 18:56:02
250.   Marty
nope, west coast over by the Rose Bowl. But it cooled way down today in my area.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-10-12 18:56:28
251.   Frip
249 Wouldn't that be, say, Apple or Popsicle...to beef stew weather?
2007-10-12 19:25:03
252.   Gen3Blue
251 Maybe thats more accurate,as many things like hamburger, sausage, and potato salad are summer fare here. But as much as I hate to admit it, we in the northeast are accepting the utility of burritos! Besides, most of the people here are hispanic.
But, to the point, it is rare when both coasts have synchronized weather. Because today we went from a rare late fall heat+humidity in the morning to a crisp, cold, and windy evening.
2007-10-12 19:36:30
253.   Eric Stephen
The game on 9/24/74 was Mike Marshall's 102nd game of the season, but he did reach 200 IP in this game. Is that the only season of 200 relief IP, or at least the first?

The Dodgers hadn't yet clinched the division, so I'm guessing it's Marshall's 200 IP that the author chose as memorable.

2007-10-12 19:37:17
254.   Eric Stephen
248 Marty, that is a good idea. I'm thinking of making slow cooked jambalaya this weekend.
2007-10-12 19:52:23
255.   Gen3Blue
Man, that hurt watching Gangne go through that. I remember it was much less abrubt realizing Fernando and Orel were'nt quite the same after we got our chapionships. And those can't be taken away from either of those guys.
2007-10-12 20:01:05
256.   KG16
Anyone else think that Clark would have had a triple on Pierre?
2007-10-12 20:57:15
257.   Daniel Zappala
241 Since by 1999 I was no longer in LA, I can safely say I wasn't there for the Mondesi game. The diary, and my pride, are safe.
2007-10-12 21:10:35
258.   Bob Timmermann
I guess this "Mondesi Game" could also be called "the one good game Mel Rojas pitched for the Dodgers."
2007-10-13 00:17:56
259.   Paul Scott
I hope Dusty Baker was watching tonight's game.
2007-10-13 03:59:27
260.   Benjamin Miracord
From CBS SportsLine, July 28, 2006:

"This is the Juan Pierre we traded for," Cubs manager Dusty Baker said. "He's playing great defense and he's stealing bases and he's getting on base."

If Baker becomes the next manager of the Reds, perhaps he will persuade management to make a quick inquiry to Ned Colletti.

2007-10-13 06:52:38
261.   Sam DC
Cursed sleep!
2007-10-13 07:29:39
262.   Bluebleeder87
Dude, the Rox are busting a Halos circa '02, Eric Enders has it right, it can only be a really good thing for the city of Colorado & baseball (build a strong & more loyal fan base) while on this ridiculous run, I for one can't wait to see the Colorado Stadium jumping with enthusiasm. Could this be there year? when you think of a Rockies, BoSox series you can't help & think David versus Goliath but crazier things have happened no matter what I'm gonna enjoy the ride.
2007-10-13 07:55:59
263.   Bob Timmermann
Sunday night in Denver should be cold and rainy although it doesn't sound like it would postpone the game. It would just be like the World Series games last year.
2007-10-13 08:32:00
264.   Bob Timmermann
We should have called Sam when the NLCS game ended.
2007-10-13 09:04:02
265.   Bluebleeder87
264

same thing happened to me, my better half gave me a massage of a life time & I couldn't help but fall a sleep, I woke up, turned on the T.V. (ESPNews) & couldn't help but put a smile on my face at the unfoldings.

2007-10-13 09:08:39
266.   Bumsrap
From Dodgers.com
Pierre does not want to move to left.
Kershaw learning a new pitch in Fall league.
Elbert progressing well and is throwing in Arizona.
2007-10-13 09:12:36
267.   Bluebleeder87
You guys like the new MSN Video format? (I don't like it) any ways, theres a pretty funny video about relationships there [ http://tinyurl.com/27ky7c ]
2007-10-13 09:21:33
268.   Bumsrap
----------------IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Miller (L, 0-1) 2.0 6 4 -4 -1 --3 --0 18.00
2007-10-13 09:23:30
269.   Bumsrap
267 - Pretty relationships--and that's a good thing
2007-10-13 10:20:03
270.   berkowit28
Hey, good news at dodgers.com:

"Infielder Shea Hillenbrand joined Olmedo Saenz and Roberto Hernandez by electing free agency Friday."

A little bird must have whispered in their ears.

2007-10-13 10:57:48
271.   overkill94
No love for Shawn Green's big day? Setting the record for total bases in a game is pretty memorable.
2007-10-13 11:05:54
272.   Robert Fiore
Re 266: "My offense is completely inadequate for a center fielder, much less a left fielder," said Pierre, citing his nonexistent power stroke. "I couldn't disgrace the position that way. I have more respect for baseball than that."
2007-10-13 11:11:26
273.   Bob Timmermann
So since Ohio State is leading Kent State 35-0 at halftime, does Cal have to beat Oregon State by approximately 750 points to remain #2 under the pollster rule of "Pac-10 teams not named USC aren't any good."
2007-10-13 11:36:45
274.   Jon Weisman
271 - That wasn't at Dodger Stadium.
2007-10-13 11:50:58
275.   overkill94
274 Ohhhh, I didn't realize it had to be at Dodger Stadium. No wonder the list seemed kinda weird.

While it may not have been a big game in the grand scheme of things, Beltre's game against the Braves in 2004 was a pretty good one - homer in the 9th to tie it and the game-winner in the 11th. I probably wouldn't remember it if I hadn't been there.

2007-10-13 11:54:09
276.   Bob Timmermann
274
And nobody went on an important date right after listening to the radio call of Shawn Green's 4 homer game.
2007-10-13 12:09:21
277.   Andrew Shimmin
Pierre didn't really say he doesn't want to move. Maybe he did, actually, but his quote doesn't say that. It's completely non-committal in either direction.
2007-10-13 12:20:24
278.   D4P
Submitted without comment (delete if you must)

The Russian government under Vladimir Putin has amassed so much central authority that the power-grab may undermine Moscow's commitment to democracy, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said today

2007-10-13 12:30:22
279.   Jon Weisman
Two new posts up top.

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