Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Help
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Search
Google Search
Web
Toaster
Dodger Thoughts
Archives

2009
02  01 

2008
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2007
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2006
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2005
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2004
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2003
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2002
09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

A Nostalgic Return to the Coliseum?
2007-10-25 11:40
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

There have been a number of little Dodger newsbits over the past 24 hours, but buried near the bottom of an article by Barry M. Bloom for MLB.com was this rather surprising morsel:

Several games in the annual preseason Freeway Series against the Angels may be staged at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.

Putting aside the erroneous implication that the Freeway Series is some sort of several-game affair when it has traditionally been no more than three games – and could even be reduced to one in 2008, as Tony Jackson of the Daily News reports – the idea of staging games at the Coliseum for the first time in 47 years forced me into a double-take.

I e-mailed the Dodgers this morning to see where this notion came from, and senior vice president of communications Camile Johnston replied.

"The stories about this are premature," Johnston said. "It is something being considered as part of the 50th anniversary celebration, but nothing is close to being finalized."

I have to say, I'll be following this story eagerly. It would be quite a treat to see first-hand the odd arrangement of baseball shoehorned into the city's football stadium, recapturing the Dodgers' first moments in Los Angeles.

* * *

In other news, the Dodgers announced De Jon Watson has been promoted from director of player development to assistant general manager - player development. The promotion gives Watson input on transactions - which probably can't hurt, because according to Dave Studeman of The Hardball Times, no team in baseball in 2007 got less value from players signed to free agent contracts (including those signed before the 2006-07 offseason) than the Dodgers.

In addition, the team has made a few changes in the medical staff. Among them: Todd Tomczyk, who came to the team last season, was promoted to assistant athletic trainer. The Dodgers have hired Sue Falsone as a physical therapist - the first female PT in major-league history. Also, Brendon Huttman will be the Dodgers' strength coach, coming over from Cleveland.

Director of medical services and head trainer Stan Conte told Dylan Hernandez of the Times that the team needs to be "more proactive and be on the more preventative side." Of course, we knew this when Conte was hired, so this seems to be an admission that they needed to show better progress.

Hernandez has other health notes, including an update on Jason Schmidt.

(Schmidt) hasn't started throwing a baseball, but Conte said he is 'incredibly pleased' with his recovery. Schmidt will visit Dr. Neal ElAttrache in Los Angeles in the middle of next month and could start throwing soon after.

I continue to believe that Schmidt will be in the starting rotation in April, but not at the level of performance he had with San Francisco.

(Image source: Ballparkwatch.com)

Comments (308)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-10-25 11:46:44
1.   Howard Fox
personally, when I think of Schmidt, I think of Dreifort...that is what I think we get from him
2007-10-25 11:47:24
2.   Bluebleeder87
If Schmidt is around 87-90MPH I'll be very very happy.
2007-10-25 11:51:55
3.   wireroom
That would awesome to watch a game at the coliseum with my dad who watched Koufax pitch there when the Dodgers first moved here. I am all for that exhibition.
2007-10-25 11:53:45
4.   wireroom
Having Schmidt pitch regardless of his fastball will be way better than watching Tomko and Hendrickson just give away games in the first inning.
2007-10-25 11:54:31
5.   Bob Timmermann
The Coliseum is going to be much harder to fit a baseball stadium in now. In 1958, there was room for a track around the stadium, but that's gone now and it's pretty cozy.

The Coliseum's website says that the width of the field is only 304 feet. The stadium is supposed to be 324 feet from north to south.

And 680 feet from east to west.

2007-10-25 11:54:33
6.   Humma Kavula
no team in baseball in 2007 got less value from players signed to free agent contracts (including those signed before the 2006-07 offseason) than the Dodgers

This includes Brad Penny.

I know why you can't just take him out, but if you take him out... they look even worse.

2007-10-25 11:54:36
7.   silverwidow
Wow, what are the centerfield dimensions in that pic?
2007-10-25 11:57:25
8.   Bob Timmermann
Dead center was 425' and right center was 440' in 1958, but it was moved in the next three years.

It was 250' to left.

2007-10-25 11:59:42
9.   Marty
Penny was a trade and they extended his contract. Does that make him eligible for the free-agent list?
2007-10-25 12:01:21
10.   silverwidow
It's crazy that there's virtually zero foul territory on the 1B side but EXTREME amounts on the 3B side.
2007-10-25 12:05:11
11.   Humma Kavula
9 That is a good question. They keep talking about free agents, but they also peg David Wright as being undervalued by $17 million -- does that figure into the Mets' total? Don't know.
2007-10-25 12:05:37
12.   wireroom
Moonshots
2007-10-25 12:06:15
13.   Marty
Its Ozzie-mania over at Fire Joe Morgan.
2007-10-25 12:07:03
14.   Bob Timmermann
O'Malley was in negotiations with Pasadena to play in the Rose Bowl as well as the Coliseum.

If the Dodgers had played in the Rose Bowl, they would have had to have removed seats from one of the corners to fit a regulation field in the Bowl.

2007-10-25 12:18:35
15.   regfairfield
11 They have several calculations. One for pre-arb, one for arbitration, and one for free agents. Your value is relative to how you perform versus the average player at your cost level. (I think the baseline was 200K per WASB for pre-arb, 900K for arb, and four million for a free agent.)
2007-10-25 12:21:00
16.   regfairfield
In Wright's case, since he's aribtration eligible, they take his WASB and multiply it by 900K, then subtract his actual salary to come up with his net win shares value.
2007-10-25 12:23:18
17.   Humma Kavula
15 /16 So is L.A. at -$21 million for just the free agents or for the whole team? Do they count, say, Martin?
2007-10-25 12:24:09
18.   das411
That picture looks like some sort of unholy combo of the Polo Grounds and Fenway...but in LA! Oh man, if they do that again I'm totally there...but do I have to buy the old school hat to wear to the game?
2007-10-25 12:27:38
19.   bigcpa
17 That's just FA's and presumably Penny is in there. They say CHW and HOU were worse in overall net value. So our pre-arb guys push our total into positive territory. Kemp, Martin, Loney, Ethier are probably worth $5-8M each in market value.
2007-10-25 12:27:58
20.   berkowit28
I'm a bit puzzled:

"...buried near the bottom of an article by Barry M. Bloom for MLB.com was this rather surprising morsel:

Several games in the annual preseason Freeway Series against the Angels may be staged at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.

Putting aside the erroneous implication that the Freeway Series is some sort of several-game affair when it has traditionally been no more than three games"

How is it erroneous? Three games is "several games" - it's always been called the "Freeway Series". There's no implication of more-than-three (do you read five? seven?) in that title.

Or was there something more in the original MLB column that you didn't quote? It's all gone now, all that remains is:

"Next year is the 50th anniversary of the Dodgers moving from Brooklyn to Los Angeles, and they played from 1958-61 at the Coliseum prior to the unveiling of Dodger Stadium."

...and then it goes back to talking about Tokyo. in what's now a very awkward leap. Your email exchange with Camille must have led to a quick edit.

2007-10-25 12:29:18
21.   Humma Kavula
18 Jackets and ties will be required.
2007-10-25 12:33:11
22.   dzzrtRatt
6 Maybe you meant Lowe?

With the NFL again rejecting the Coliseum for pro football, maybe this baseball-in-the-Coliseum idea was some politico's brainchild to build some positive buzz around the old stadium.

Peter O'Malley must have not enjoyed reading that Chavez Ravine is on the NFL's list again.

2007-10-25 12:38:10
23.   bhsportsguy
Steven A. Smith (whose interview with Kobe Bryant started that whole thing) is saying that if Joe Girardi is not named manager of the Yankees, he has a fallback position of becoming the Dodger's manager (and replacing Grady Little).

When Buster Olney asked Girardi's agent if this was true, he replied, no comment.

I could not find any articles or published rumors online to substantiate this rumor.

2007-10-25 12:38:35
24.   Bob Timmermann
If there are games at the Coliseum, fans will also be requested to buy their own bugles to play "Charge!"

That was the Coliseum's trademark.

2007-10-25 12:38:51
25.   D4P
Its Ozzie-mania over at Fire Joe Morgan

If you or I said we were gonna do the things Ozzie says he's gonna do, we'd never get hired in the first place.

2007-10-25 12:42:59
26.   Jon Weisman
20 - It's not a big deal, but in my mind, three is the minimum to qualify as several. And since we know a portion of the Freeway Series will be played in Anaheim, that leaves a maximum of two games to be played at the Coliseum. So all in all, it just seems like an obvious error - he's making it seem like more games would happen at the Coliseum than possibly could. In order for several games to be played in the Coliseum, the Freeway Series would have to be longer than it ever was.
2007-10-25 12:45:52
27.   Jon Weisman
20 - By the way, thanks for noticing that edit from Bloom's story.
2007-10-25 12:46:53
28.   Jon Weisman
27 - Oh, wait - it's still there. You just must have skipped over it.
2007-10-25 12:49:00
29.   paranoidandroid
A few random thoughts:

1. I'd love the freeway series to be played at the Coliseum if I don't have to buy those tickets with my season tickets. I personally would rather skip exhibition games when meaningful games are around the corner.

2. When are the Dodgers going to pony up some funds for the fire victims? The Lakers have already. Maybe the freeways series funds can be used as donations?

3. We are all just guessing what Schmidt will be if he's able to pitch. Some guys have better success when they aren't throwing as hard, the key is deception, control, and changing speeds. Too soon to guess any of that with Jason and his rebuilt shoulder. Just because his shoulder heals, doesn't mean he will stay injury free either.

4. If someone told me last October that JD Drew would hit a grand slam in the 6th game of the LCS and that Gagne would pitch a 1-2-3 ninth, and then they both performed well again in the first game of the WS, I'd have been jumping with joy. The reality is that I am just mildly entertained.

2007-10-25 12:49:44
30.   Humma Kavula
22 In the article, they specifically cite Penny.
2007-10-25 12:58:02
31.   The Blue Legend
Accoding to the Boston Globe The Dodgers might be interested in going after Joe Torre. That would be good. How nice would he look in Dodger Blue.
2007-10-25 13:03:10
32.   natepurcell
Girardi eh...hmmm...

Considering Manager is one of the least of my worries, I like Girardi though.

2007-10-25 13:09:52
33.   ToyCannon
Giradi did a nice job with the young Marlin team in 2006. Have zero interest in Torre. The Yankee's should be happy he turned down their offer.
2007-10-25 13:15:00
34.   bhsportsguy
23 ESPN.com is now reporting it.

http://tinyurl.com/yv8ch4

In the article, Dodgers say they have a manager.

2007-10-25 13:19:12
35.   regfairfield
I'm really not sure how much of the Marlins success we can attribute to Giradi, he seems like a terrible tactical manager (love that bunt) and he probably ruined Josh Johnson. Maybe he's a good motivator but I don't put all that much value there.
2007-10-25 13:19:41
36.   Marty
We have a manager. We need pitching.
2007-10-25 13:19:53
37.   paranoidandroid
Grady Little is indeed our manager. We don't need "will Grady be back" turmoil this offseason. That is why McCourt announced Ned and Grady are back for another season a few weeks ago.

We could use a power bat and some pitching. Torre will be around if need to make a change for 09. Let's hope we don't need or want to.

2007-10-25 13:23:16
38.   Ken Noe
34 And that's all they say. "Ken Noe has a sprained ankle," but he won't next week.

33 Giradi would be better than Torre for sure--success with Fish kids as you say and I think he take could take Kent. The guy got a raw deal in Miami.

Finally, would love to see a game in the Coliseum.

2007-10-25 13:24:14
39.   StolenMonkey86
34 - I don't think there's a lot of substance to that, but I'm not surprised.
2007-10-25 13:27:06
40.   ToyCannon
35
I probably put more value in motivation and communication then I do in tactical managing.

I don't see any reason to replace Grady with Giradi but if they did it wouldn't bother me as much if they brought in Torre to replace Grady.

37
To many seemed to have forgotten October 2005. McCourt has very quick mood swings.

2007-10-25 13:28:52
41.   ToyCannon
My friend and I were discussing the Coliseum story just before Jon posted it. We both agreed that nothing would keep us from watching a game at the Coliseum.

How many of you get to work with a smart die-hard Dodger fan? It sure makes work a lot more fun.

2007-10-25 13:30:08
42.   Humma Kavula
We also need, if he is available, the best player in baseball.

And as long as I'm dreaming, I'd like a pony.

2007-10-25 13:31:10
43.   Jon Weisman
Two years ago, more would have been made of the fact that, if I understand correctly, the Dodger coaches have not yet been rehired. So that's the only thing that's curious. Otherwise, I wouldn't believe for a moment that Little wasn't coming back. And I'd still be surprised if he doesn't.
2007-10-25 13:38:02
44.   wireroom
It probably has something mroe to do with a front office job or coaching position within the Dodgers for Girardi if he doesn't work for the Yankees.
2007-10-25 13:38:23
45.   wireroom
*more
2007-10-25 13:38:38
46.   dzzrtRatt
37 If I recall correctly, Joe Girardi was available before Joe Torre was fired, and despite that McCourt said Grady would be back. So I don't see how Joe Torre's firing would lead McCourt to reconsider replacing Little, not with Torre, but with someone who has been available for a year. It's illogical.

If Penny's on the list of free agents then I'm not sure how much credibility to give the story. Penny has never been a free agent, not even by a loose definition of the term. He's been traded twice, and his existing contract with Florida got extended after he joined the Dodgers. So I wonder what other non-free agent free agents are in his calculations?

2007-10-25 13:38:46
47.   silverwidow
Girardi would be such a fantastic hire. I know for a fact that he LOVES Billingsley's stuff and said is a soon-to-be ace.
2007-10-25 13:38:57
48.   popup
If the Dodgers play at the Coliseum, Vin has to be on the radio doing the play by play.

Stan from Tacoma

2007-10-25 13:39:12
49.   StolenMonkey86
35,40 - Qualities I look for in a manager, in order of importance

1) Don't ruin your pitchers
2) Know when to use your pitchers
3) Know which players to play
4) Don't make you players do stupid stuff
5) Handle the media
6) Give a good pep talk

I doubt that motivation is really something managers need to do - in this era of free agency, that is what money is for. Little seems to do well with 1, he's iffy with 2, a bit cowardly with 3, pretty good with 4, all right with 5, and ok with 6.

If anyone is bad with 1, he can sit in the broadcasting booth. For the Angels.

2007-10-25 13:40:28
50.   StolenMonkey86
47 - I don't trust that to not mean "I'd love to see how many strikeouts he could rack up if he went 110 pitches per start."
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-10-25 13:42:42
51.   JoeyP
Unless the Dodgers change their managment structure to be more like the Red Sox/A's, I doubt a change in manager will affect things much.

Unless there's a Manny Acta on the market (and Joe Girardi is no Acta), I dont think changing managers would do much. It might appease the casual fans, and Ned/McCourt are image-driven...but little else IMO.

2007-10-25 13:47:12
52.   natepurcell
Unless the Dodgers change their managment structure to be more like the Red Sox/A's, I doubt a change in manager will affect things much.

You mean where the manager is a just a puppet for the front office?

2007-10-25 13:48:27
53.   Ken Noe
Personally I'm better with Grady than Ned, although as I said, better Girardi than Torre. Still I wonder about the following:

1. As Jon said, no coaches hired (and all told they can leave if they want)
2. The team's terse, present tense statement.
3. Colletti's apparent ties to Girardi (not to mention a reason to find a scapegoat for '07)
4. McCourt's track record this time of the year.

Like I said this morning, I expect bad news every morning.

2007-10-25 13:50:31
54.   regfairfield
46 I think that means "eligibile for free agency", i.e. any player with more than six years of service time.

What specific good quality can anyone point to in Giradi? "The Marlins exceeded expectations when he was the manager" isn't specific enough.

2007-10-25 13:52:08
55.   Bob Timmermann
With Oakland, the manager and front office don't have to be on the same page, it's just that the manager is given a book that has just one page. And the book is paperback.

I'll be off for a while torturing more metaphors. It's allowed under U.S. law.

2007-10-25 14:05:17
56.   El Lay Dave
I might not mind a Joe Girardi hiring — to replace Steve Lyons.
2007-10-25 14:08:38
57.   Marty
Or a Torre hiring to replace Rick Monday.
2007-10-25 14:11:06
58.   Jon Weisman
The sourcing for the Olney story on Girardi and the Dodgers is terrible. "Officials familiar with Girardi's job prospects said Thursday ... Girardi could have a developing opportunity with the Los Angeles Dodgers."

Someone anonymously says someone else might have a possibility of something. That's not a story.

2007-10-25 14:16:51
59.   bigcpa
54 Girardi allowed Hanley Ramirez to play through a 13-113 (.126) stretch in May/June with 1 HR and 23 K's. He only sat out once. Of course the alternative was Alfredo Amezaga. Also, Miguel Cabrera did not lay down a sac bunt in 2006.
2007-10-25 14:16:59
60.   Foolsgold
I feel bad for Grady Little....

He deserves credit for developing Russell Martin, Jonathan Broxton, Chad Billingsley and James Loney.

2007-10-25 14:19:30
61.   Robert Daeley
I'm guessing a planted story by Girardi's "people" to prod the Yankees.
2007-10-25 14:20:28
62.   bhsportsguy
58 I only post what I hear or read, I can't vouch for the reporting.
2007-10-25 14:21:10
63.   old dodger fan
I hope we stick with Grady. There is value to continuity. I don't think he has been the problem. If another manager has the influence to play whoever he thinks is best without regard to contracts AND he is a better judge of talent than Ned then I say hire him. Otherwise let's stick with Grady.

A game or two at the Coliseum might be fun but I'm sure glad we don't play there anymore. I don't think anybody hated it more than Drysdale who gave up a lot of 250 foot home runs. Left field might be a great place to hide a weak throwing arm though.

2007-10-25 14:26:48
64.   ToyCannon
Or a ManRam
2007-10-25 14:31:53
65.   kinbote
61 that's my read on the situation.

if we are interested, however, i'd have no problem seeing him in blue. maybe grady could become assistant gm #4!

2007-10-25 14:45:28
66.   kinbote
wait a second, what exactly is a "developing opportunity"? and how do i know if i'm in the middle of one?
2007-10-25 14:52:11
67.   Joshua Worley
61---

That was exactly how it struck me. As a planted story. Not sure why the Yankees would care, though.

2007-10-25 14:57:12
68.   dzzrtRatt
54 That's really stretching the definition of "free agent" with service time as the only criteria. By that definition, Derek Jeter and Todd Helton are free agents. So it sounds more like a study of "which team got the most out of its veteran players." If the Dodgers came out low on that scale, I wouldn't be at all surprised. But calling all veteran players "free agents" is like calling anyone over 72* "dead" even if they're, technically, alive.

(*or whatever the average lifespan is now.)

2007-10-25 15:02:49
69.   Jon Weisman
Bill Shaikin does his version of the Coliseum story:

http://tinyurl.com/2a2rkc

2007-10-25 15:06:26
70.   regfairfield
68 Wouldn't the Dodgers do even worse if it just counted free agent signings? Wouldn't Lowe and Kent be the only positives at that point?
2007-10-25 15:09:22
71.   Marty
Punk Rock Baseball Cards:

http://www.glyphjockey.com/punkbb.htm

Though, some of them aren't punk rockers.

2007-10-25 15:13:10
72.   dzzrtRatt
70 Anecdotally (since I'm surrounded by scientists), yes. I might add a little bit 'o' Seanez and LuGo. LuGo was more an irritant than a bad ballplayer, and unlike Nomar and Pierre, he's already gone.
2007-10-25 15:13:51
73.   ToyCannon
>The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae.

The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm.

Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Yaeh and I awlyas thought slpeling was ipmorantt!

2007-10-25 15:16:01
74.   Prescott Pete
71 I like the Jagger card.

I wonder if Girardi is a punk rock kinda guy or a Billy Joel type.

2007-10-25 15:17:41
75.   OaklandAs
68 In the article, he divides players into three categories:
1) Arbitration Non-eligible (i.e., first 2 yrs)
2) Arbitration Eligible
3) Free Agents
The reason for this is that this is how salaries break down. Group 1 is the cheapest, Group 2 is next, and Group 3 is the most expensive. Whether they are "true" free agents like Schmidt or extended players like Jeter or Penny is not really relevant, because they are on the same pay structure.
2007-10-25 15:19:20
76.   regfairfield
72 I just noticed that the actual numbers are on the site so I can actually compute the values.

Gonzalez: $-1,706,557
Seanez: $4,643,433

2007-10-25 15:20:58
77.   Humma Kavula
There is value in knowing what a team is able to do with all of its resources. How does a team determine which players to promote from the minors, which arbitration-eligible players to work with or sign to long-term deals, which free agents to sign -- and how do we judge how they did in each of these areas?

Speaking only from a financial point of view, it makes sense to focus on the players with over six years of service, because these are the players who will take up not only AB/IP, but also cash. In a sense, it doesn't matter what James Loney does, because if he had come up and stunk, the team could replace him next year without losing any investment... and the fact that he hit doesn't excuse the management from signing Pierre or Garciaparra.

Maybe I'm not expressing the idea in my head well. Let's see.

2007-10-25 15:27:18
78.   regfairfield
76 Whoops, apparently I didn't quite get it.

Gonzalez: -$608,613
Seanez: $2,559,370

2007-10-25 15:32:33
79.   Eric Stephen
73 That is amazing.
2007-10-25 15:36:10
80.   Bluebleeder87
might appease the casual fans, and Ned/McCourt are image-driven...but little else IMO.

When the McCourts first arrived in L.A. they were total & utter slaves to there image/& or how they were prescieved (sp) by idiots like Plaschke & the L.A. papers. (sp?) Has it changed? I don't know.

2007-10-25 15:37:15
81.   Bluebleeder87
73

That's so cool!!

2007-10-25 15:38:05
82.   regfairfield
The calculations for our veterans

Penny: $10,734,341
Kent: $410,932
Lowe: $531,205
Furcal: -$3,866,877
Wolf: -$1,864,230
Nomar: -$1,994,520
Pierre: -$4,640,523
Tomko: -$4,901,114
Schmidt: -$7,146,205

2007-10-25 15:41:01
83.   bigcpa
Joe Girardi holds a bachelor of science degree in industrial engineering from Northwestern University. Done. Hire him.
2007-10-25 15:56:23
84.   regfairfield
While I'm at it:

Martin: $9,546,353
Kemp: $3,372,353
Loney: $6,900,353
Bills: $6,900,353
Broxton: $3,372,353

The formula breaks down for a guy like Saito who is paid like an arbitration level player but is technically pre arb. It's almost impossible to have any value if you make anything beyond the league minimum as a pre-arb.

2007-10-25 15:59:27
85.   Greg Brock
73 Reading methodology classes have tons of those in textbooks, to highlight the different between sight-reading (recognizing words) and decoding (taking the letters, and forming language from the rules of pronunciation).

Adults don't decode, they sight read.

2007-10-25 16:12:22
86.   Scanman33
This would be a problem for Ned and Frank, as Girardi was canned for not toeing the line with upper management and ownership during his year in Florida. He also had an affinity for Alfredo Amezaga, which isn't good. He's also only managed one year, so he's still somewhat of an unknown entity.

If anything, it'd make things interesting.

2007-10-25 16:16:41
87.   Bluebleeder87
I hope we stick with Grady. There is value to continuity.

I agree with that quote, to a degree.

2007-10-25 16:21:22
88.   regfairfield
86 Hey, don't diss Alfredo Amezaga, he's all underrated team. Watch the man play center and be amazed. Now, if only he could hit.
2007-10-25 16:26:39
89.   CarlosDeC
Jon,

I know it is pretty much a non story, but do you think Girardi would be a better fit for the team then Graddy? and yeah i am guessing a posting is coming soon. Sorry for jumping the gun.

2007-10-25 16:35:12
90.   Bluebleeder87
89

I hope I don't get tagged with the label of racist towards my elders, But I think a young energetic Girardi would be a perfect fit in L.A. Don't get me wrong I don't mind Graddy Little but somebody like Girardi would be great.

2007-10-25 16:36:41
91.   Terry A
Not only is the ESPN report about Girardi hugely speculative and poorly sourced, it doesn't really even say the alleged job opportunity is a manager's job.

If there is anything brewing with the Dodgers, it could be something in the front office. It need not mean Little is on the way out.

2007-10-25 16:39:21
92.   KG16
50 - I see no reason why 110 shouldn't be the cut off point for an ace rather than 100... granted, I'm in the no-preset-pitch-count-particularly-for-your-"ace" camp. There are certain pitchers, and always have been, that can throw a monster number of pitches without their arm falling off (Ryan, Sutton, Fernando, Drysdale never even bothered with pitch counts). Maybe Billz is one of those guys, maybe not... but if he can be a guy that strikes out 250-300 a season, then a high pitch count isn't a bad thing. But I'm going to be rather annoyed if he keeps getting yanked in the 6th inning when he's averaging 8 strikeouts over the first 5.2 of a game just because he's hit 100 pitches.
2007-10-25 16:39:48
93.   dzzrtRatt
91 Umpire relations, maybe?

Or maybe he could be like the guy in "Local Hero" whose only job is to abuse the owner. Oh, wait, Jamie's still there.

2007-10-25 16:44:49
94.   KG16
I'll be honest, I don't even like the idea of a story popping up that the Dodgers are maybe, possibly, questionably looking for a new manager. Not because I'm a mark for Little, but because of what it says about the ownership. It's weather vane leadership and bad business, especially in sports. Coaches and GM need to be given a couple of years, at least, to implement their systems and run the team. Continuity is good, so long as you don't run into Matt Millen territory.
2007-10-25 17:00:24
95.   Dodgers49
Ken Rosenthal gives the following reasons:

Torre would be perfect fit for Dodgers

1. The Dodgers would gain an identity
2. The free-agent market is terrible
3. Little soon might be gone, anyway
4. Owner Frank McCourt needs a win

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7372752

2007-10-25 17:13:24
96.   Bob Timmermann
93
But the guy in "Local Hero" was a licensed psychiatrist. His abuse of Mr. Happer was part of a therapeutic course of action.
2007-10-25 17:14:46
97.   Bob Timmermann
95
So the Dodgers big problem is an identity crisis?

I thought they just didn't have any power hitters and suspect starting pitching.

2007-10-25 17:15:11
98.   Jon Weisman
95 - Not one of those are a valid reason to hire Torre.
2007-10-25 17:18:00
99.   Humma Kavula
1. The Dodgers would gain an identity

Oooh, and just in time for Halloween! Can the Dodgers dress up as a baseball team this year?

2. The free-agent market is terrible

And that $5 million is burning a hole in Frank's pocket!

3. Little soon might be gone, anyway

He'll most assuredly be gone if you hire Torre! Self-fulfilling prophecy, meet tautological argument!

4. Owner Frank McCourt needs a win

Okay, maybe I'm nuts, but I'd prefer that win to come in a Major League Baseball contest.

2007-10-25 17:18:51
100.   regfairfield
95 "So the Dodgers should hire Joe Torre" doesn't seem like the proper conclusion to any of those points.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-10-25 17:23:10
101.   dzzrtRatt
95 You left off Rosenthal's fifth bad reason:
"Torre is hungry." And as we know, managers who really really want to win always find a way to do it.

That was our problem this season. Bob Melvin and Clint Hurdle just wanted it more than Grady Little. Hurdle wanted it more than Melvin, as it turned out, and now we're going to find out who wants to win more, Francona or Hurdle. That's really the decisive factor, although, sadly, you can't really tell who wanted it more until after the season or series is over.

2007-10-25 17:23:22
102.   Humma Kavula
Wasn't Rosenthal the guy who, last night, first misidentified the Rockies' opponent in the NLDS and then said that the Diamondbacks were just a bad team, and that's why the Red Sox beat up on them by a dozen runs?
2007-10-25 17:23:34
103.   Dodgers49
One executive called this free-agent market the "weakest ever.'' That exec noted that free-agent classes are now made up only of "Scott Boras clients and late bloomers.''

http://tinyurl.com/23e4qo

2007-10-25 17:24:15
104.   Humma Kavula
101 If Torre is hungry, and unemployed, he may want to go to Hometown Buffet. You get a lot of food there for a very reasonable price.
2007-10-25 17:25:36
105.   bigcpa
Managers, even expensive managers, are far cheaper than players. The Dodgers could give Torre a two-year, $14 million contract... and trumpet him as their big off-season acquisition.

Wow that is a new low for Rosenthal. Sign Torre over A Jones because he's cheaper! The new Gammons he ain't.

2007-10-25 17:26:39
106.   Humma Kavula
101 Also, if I were a manager, and I were hungry for a World Series win, I might choose to take $5 million to manage the Yankees -- a team that is likely to be very, very good next year.

Perhaps this Torre character isn't as hungry as Rosenthal would have us believe.

2007-10-25 17:29:22
107.   Dodgers49
101. 95 You left off Rosenthal's fifth bad reason:
"Torre is hungry."

There's no way I would have left that one out on purpose. :-)
For some reason I just stopped reading after #4. I'm not sure why.

2007-10-25 17:34:11
108.   overkill94
Anybody think that while hiring Girardi might not improve the team from a strategic standpoint, it could signal that management is more willing to stick with the kids? Who better to appease the clubhouse than a young spark plug manager who has successfully managed a young team?

It could be a great PR move to not only put the bad vibes from September in the past, but also get the casual fan excited about a youth movement.

2007-10-25 17:37:43
109.   Humma Kavula
What does it mean that we're all waiting for the other shoe to drop on a horrible move?

While I don't advocate any of the Horrible Moves that have been floated, the only one that's really a dealbreaker to me is the Pierre-to-left/free-agent-CF move. If that happens, I might need to find something else to do with my time. Like coo over Spawn of Kavula (due date just 10 days away!)

2007-10-25 17:39:00
110.   Bob Timmermann
Yond Torre has a lean and hungry look
He uses Proctor too much; such men are dangerous

I apologize for not getting the second line into iambic pentameter.

2007-10-25 17:40:51
111.   Bob Timmermann
109
Should we chip in to get you a Dodgers bassinet?

Or a Dodger Thoughts onesie?

2007-10-25 17:45:08
112.   Greg Brock
108 That's exactly what I think the rationale would be. And I'd prefer Girardi over Torre.

Of course, I'd prefer Alex Rodriguez more. Manager, Schmanager.

2007-10-25 17:56:39
113.   Humma Kavula
109 I actually have a DodgerThoughts onesie.

Sometime poster JimBilly4 painted me one.

It has a minotaur, a bull, bills, a
golden god (with a catcher's mask), a bison, and the words "big game."

2007-10-25 17:56:58
114.   overkill94
112 If they could get A-Rod, management could hire a three-headed monster of Dusty Baker, Kevin Kennedy, and Jim Tracy as manager for all I care.
2007-10-25 17:58:49
115.   Humma Kavula
114 a three-headed monster of Dusty Baker, Kevin Kennedy, and Jim Tracy

"Do I, the manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers, hate it when players clog the bases? Yes, I do!"

2007-10-25 18:06:15
116.   dzzrtRatt
We could pay him $14 million to take over for Mike Lieberthal, if that's what Rosenthal thinks would help. Martin doesn't sit too often, but Torre would be a PVL-deluxe behind the plate.
2007-10-25 18:08:23
117.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers have only won World Series when being managed by taciturn men from Ohio or garrulous Italian-Americans.

The second taciturn Ohioan didn't work out.

2007-10-25 18:34:52
118.   dzzrtRatt
117 Not taciturn enough.
2007-10-25 19:10:51
119.   Samhain
Grady Little is an atrocious baseball strategist (with a remarkably bad feel for when to pull relievers), a lousy motivator of his players, and a manager who lost control of his team by the end of the season.

To my thinking he isn't tough enough with those players who need a a kick in the butt. Sometimes a good manager needs to rip a player who will be motivated by public criticism. (Not all players respond to that approach but sometimes it is appropriate to try it.)

Colletti gave Little a flawed team good enough to finish with 90-92 wins. I see no justification for keeping Grady whatsoever.

2007-10-25 19:25:08
120.   natepurcell
Gurnick adds his own twist to the speculation over at dodgers.com
2007-10-25 19:25:31
121.   MikeB
The box score of my first ever Dodger game, played at the Coliseum, Aug 14, 1958. http://tinyurl.com/3xaazx

My dad took me to celebrate my 6th birthday, which was actually 5 days later.

After viewing the box score you may understand why "Big D" became my all time favorite ballplayer.

I am looking forward to celebrating my 50th season as a Dodger fan in 2008.

2007-10-25 19:34:23
122.   Daniel Zappala
The Dodgers have only won World Series when being managed by taciturn men from Ohio or garrulous Italian-Americans.

If you think I'm garrulous enough, I'm available.

2007-10-25 19:56:38
123.   scareduck
121 - attendance, 6,195. Wow. I bet you could have heard yourself cheering on the radio, if they had such things as transistor radios in those days.
2007-10-25 19:57:35
124.   scareduck
117 - I was wondering why they hired Tracy.
2007-10-25 20:07:44
125.   overkill94
119 I think you're being a bit hard on Grady. He was better than average at pulling relievers and average at motivating his players. It's true that he wasn't a disciplinarian and it cost him at the end of the season, but overall I think he's a fairly neutral manager.
2007-10-25 20:11:47
126.   Vishal
games in the coliseum would definitely be worth a road trip down from SF for.
2007-10-25 20:18:11
127.   MikeB
123. When your 6 years old, 6195 is a big number. But, one of my lasting memories of that game was the incredible hugeness of the Coliseum. We sat on the 3rd base side and I remember both starting pitchers warmed up side by side in front of the stands. I also remember the smell of cigars and a cloudy haze that hung over the stands during the game.
2007-10-25 20:19:21
128.   Dodgers49
In Shadow of Series, Yankees Stay Quiet

>> "As far as making the decision, it will be before the end" of the Series, Hank Steinbrenner told The Associated Press. "No question. As far as when we announce it, we're going to obviously honor the wishes of the commissioner." <<

## The Yankees are not forced to hunt for bargains based on statistics — the essence of the so-called "Moneyball" philosophy — but Cashman values statistics so much that he has a full-time analyst, Michael Fishman, on his staff.

It is a facet of his job that Cashman, who did not return a telephone message, does not like to publicize. ##

http://tinyurl.com/2cze6l

2007-10-25 20:29:59
129.   Bob Timmermann
Transistor radios were pretty new inventions in 1958. They had been around since the early 1950s and they were quite popular by the time the Dodgers came to L.A.

Supposedly the Coliseum would be filled with fans listening to Scully on the radio as the game was going on and that phenomenon moved Scully from "guy who came from Brooklyn" to "L.A. Cultural icon."

2007-10-25 20:31:25
130.   Bob Timmermann
121
I'm assuming you went to a day game. The Dodgers played a lot of them in their first season in L.A.
2007-10-25 21:12:36
131.   LA Native
Not a bad idea to play in the Coliseum, but I think I would rather see the Lakers play again in the Forum, perhaps with a halftime honoring the past Championship teams from the 80's and 72. Of course if the Dodgers did play in the Coliseum I would assume that they would honor the 58 team or the 59 Championship team.
2007-10-25 21:14:39
132.   LA Native
Another fact that few people know is that the Dodgers are responsible for the San Diego "Chargers" name as they both played in the Coliseum during the 1960 season and the constant playing of charge at the Dodger games at the Coliseum gave rise to the name for the new football team.
2007-10-25 21:42:05
133.   yankz
128 Do you have a link to that article?
2007-10-25 21:42:43
134.   yankz
128 Ok, wow, um...it's almost 1 AM here?

You confused me with the alternating bold and non-bold!

2007-10-25 22:33:16
135.   Bumsrap
129 - Dodger Stadium was full of transister radios as well. I miss hearing Vin during the games at Dodger Stadium.

Hiring Giradi as a coach would tell Grady he has about until June to look like a successful manager and keep reminding him he has little room for error.

2007-10-25 22:53:46
136.   LAT
I don't know if Girardi would be any good but it would sure be interesting to see what happens when he walks over to the owners box and yells at the owner to "be quiet!" during a game.

I'm guessing the result is Frank shrinks. Tommy wakes up. And Jamie jumps the fence and kicks his butt while Camille looks on in horror.

2007-10-25 23:09:15
137.   Linkmeister
121 Drysdale had only one strikeout. That's a surprise.

Seeing all those names takes me back. I became a fan within a year or so of that date. I remember Klippstein vaguely, Labine well. F Kipp is unknown to me, though.

2007-10-25 23:17:46
138.   Greg Brock
These managerial rumors are awesome.

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

2007-10-26 00:01:05
139.   LAT
135. Grady does ok in June. Its September when he loses his way.
2007-10-26 05:24:08
140.   D4P
I see that Girardi won National League Manager of the Year in 2006, when his team won 5 fewer games than they had in the previous year.
2007-10-26 06:19:22
141.   Frip
These complicated manufactured dilemmas about where teams can play is just sad. The Chargers and the fire. The Dodgers and the Coliseum. The Chargers don't have to fly to Arizona, why don't they just play at some high school? Or a field with painted lines? What happened to the simplicity of 11 guys on each side trying to move a leather ball?
2007-10-26 06:31:27
142.   Ken Noe
My favorite quote from the Daily News: "'Grady Little is our manager,'" said Camille Johnston, the Dodgers' senior vice president for communications, who emphasized that she had no knowledge of the situation."
2007-10-26 06:47:44
143.   JoeyP
Its always nice in business when the PR people have no idea whats going on.
2007-10-26 07:03:12
144.   Ken Noe
141 Same thing that happened to a bunch of kids in a vacant lot with a bat and ball.
2007-10-26 07:40:26
145.   El Lay Dave
140 Your tongue is in cheek on that one, I assume. Some players that were on the 2005 Marlins, but not the 2006 version that Girardi was handed: Carlos Delgado, Luis Castillo, Mike Lowell, Juan Encarnacion, Paul Lo Duca, Alex Gonzalez, A. J. Burnett, and, oh yeah, Josh Beckett.

That said, Girardi's Marlins did under perform their Pythagorean by two games.

2007-10-26 07:42:26
146.   Improbable88
49 - I don't think anyone who has heard Orel Hershiser talk about the profound positive effect Tommy Lasorda had on his self-confidence would rate a manager's ability to motivate his players so low.
2007-10-26 07:45:58
147.   Ken Noe
Monday marks the anniversary of McCourt firing DePo, 10/29/05. Sleep well this weekend, Grady.
2007-10-26 07:58:40
148.   El Lay Dave
92 Drysdale's arm DID fall off. He missed the last month of his age 31 season due to injury and retired in the next season, trying unsuccessfully to come back.

Fernando was never the same after he went down in his age 27 season, 1988.

Limiting the work on your starters is about preserving their arm over a longer haul than one season.

2007-10-26 08:20:05
149.   paranoidandroid
146 The one person I absolutely do not miss leading the Dodgers is Tommy. He is so full of himself, he would take credit for discovering the recipe for ice if he could. I loathe the nonsense "enthusiastic" dribble that flows out of his pie hole. I wish he would go away very quietly. Frank thinks he's some sort of icon or something, I simply do not.

I find it fitting that Mariano is on the field and Tommy isn't. Mariano stood up to that foolishness and Tommy was vindictive. Let's not forget that Tommy was the guy who didn't consider Pedro M a strong enough body to be a starting pitcher.

2007-10-26 08:39:27
150.   Improbable88
149 Full of himself? Perhaps. But you are certainly in the minority if you don't think he's an icon. He is, regardless of what you think of him.

He got the most out of his best players, a fact they attest to again and again.

Not that he didn't have his shortcomings, he certainly did; but he brought home two championships and number of pennants. Say what you will about his arm-killing propensities, I would trade the arms of Fernando and Hershiser for championships in a heartbeat.

I realize it's a far-fetched scenario, but, would you rather have 6 brilliant years of the Minotaur and a championship, or 14 great years without one? I know the two aren't mutually exclusive, but we tend to forget the fact that the team plays to win a championship, and they are so very rare.

Obviously, he'll never live down the Pedro thing, but every manager has a skeleton in his closet.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-10-26 08:57:22
151.   Ricardo
95. The reason why Torre wouldn´t be a perfect fit for the Dodgers: EDSP
2007-10-26 09:25:19
152.   LogikReader
Mornin' All:

Last night, I was thinking about the DH... First of all, I'm not a fan.

Secondly the American League is not that much better than the National League without it.

My thinking is that the American League keeps having this perceived advantage, because, over time, they have learned to make the best use of the DH. It's literally unfair! Imagine having an extra hitter the entire season while the National League tries to work around the pitching spot.

Is it any surprise the AL dominates interleague play? Even with NL rules, the AL will already have a ready-to-go hitter to use for pinch hitting.

Granted, the AL does have better top to bottom batting lineups overall. The gap, however is closing, with the new talent in the NL. I just think it'd make sense to either

1) Give the NL a DH
or
2) Remove the DH from the AL

The Players Union will probably lobby for the former, since it could extend some careers and allow pitchers to go deeper into games. I'm fine either way, but I hope this gets addressed eventually.

2007-10-26 09:44:16
153.   Daniel Zappala
The Dodgers already have a DH. Jeff Kent.
2007-10-26 09:47:00
154.   paranoidandroid
150 I understand that not liking Lasorda makes me a minority. I'm kind of used to that label anyway for many different reasons in my life and I'm comfortable with it.

Regardless, there is a perception among those who aren't hardcore Dodger fans that he's some sort of untouchable Dodger icon that I think is mistakenly accepted by these casual LA fans and folks in other cities. I simply don't miss him.

I think the winning had a lot to do with a core group of solid players and some really good pitching. Thank you for your service Tommy, but please be quiet now. You were part of two winning decades, but you weren't the sole reason. Orel is loyal, I respect that. However, somehow I doubt that he thinks Tommy was the master motivator he was quoted as having said. I might be wrong.

2007-10-26 09:58:21
155.   JoeyP
Its strange, but it seems like forever since the Dodgers played. Maybe it only seems that way bc the last real meaningful game they played was in early September. Still, if the off-season isnt very active, its going to seem like a real long winter at least pour moi.
2007-10-26 10:01:33
156.   das411
This date in baseball:

1998 - The New York Mets announced All-Star catcher Mike Piazza agreed to a seven-year, $91 million contract, then the richest deal in baseball history.

2000 - The New York Yankees became the first team in more than a quarter-century to win three straight World Series championships, beating the New York Mets 4-2 in Game 5 to win the series, 4-1.

2007-10-26 10:12:44
157.   LogikReader
Joey, I have to admit, "if the off-season isn't very active" I'll be as happy as a clam! Especially with respect to the Dodger.
2007-10-26 10:12:52
158.   LogikReader
s
2007-10-26 10:15:15
159.   Frip
149 I used to like Tommy. Then the same things that you said about him started to dawn on me. He is full of himself, and the enthusiasm is self-promotional. I remember him showing that same enthusiasm in interviews for Weight Watchers. I enjoy his antics, as kind of absurd yet amazing carnival barker.

I can't tell what he'd be like off camera. He just may be a great guy. Or he may just talk about himself alot. Can't tell.

2007-10-26 10:21:50
160.   CajunDodger
157
I see some pretty major work coming by Colletti and co. Moving Furcal seems like selling low, but I could see them shopping him, Ethier, and Lowe. Ultimately names like Dunn, Abreu, Jones, and Cabrera will be thrown out in the press, but I think that at the end of the day, we are less desperate than the likes of St. Louis, New York, and the Angels.

We will hear a lot, but our acquisitions seem more likely to be in the Carlos Silva vein.

2007-10-26 10:29:03
161.   fanerman
160 Isn't "Sell Low" Ned's middle name?
2007-10-26 10:34:58
162.   Improbable88
154, 159 - Except for the brilliant post-season commercials on FOX last year (It's your duty, Judy!), I agree that Tommy's best contributions to baseball are long behind him.

However, I still like seeing him at the ballpark and think the McCourts are doing right by keeping him around, if only as a figurehead (and he certainly is nothing more than that at this point, thankfully).

From everything I've heard though, he is a motivational wonder. And don't forget that he had a GREAT deal to do with the development of that core of players in the 70s.

2007-10-26 10:42:34
163.   Marty
154 You aren't the only one. I can't stand Lasorda.
2007-10-26 10:42:36
164.   CajunDodger
160
No, I think "buy high" is his middle name...
2007-10-26 10:44:46
165.   CajunDodger
163
I really do not see what all the fuss about Tommy is so long as he is simply a figurehead and ambassador for the team. As long as he keeps out of the operations side of things, I just ignore his rants.

I do like his stories of his early playing/coaching days, though.

2007-10-26 10:49:26
166.   fordprefect
58
(late to the party, I know...But--)
not if you're Buster Olney or ESPN.

73
You just gave me a big fat hdcaeahe.

2007-10-26 10:58:54
167.   ToyCannon
I'm not a big Tommy fan mainly based on story after story about the nobodies who work for the Dodgers and how he treated them. However on his birthday a lot of the big name players from his past made some great comments on the big screen and he's still a huge fan favorite. Probably only 2nd to Fernando as a fan favorite. Many people point to Tommy ruining Fernando but if you had actually been around at the time, once Fernando became what he was, I think he'd gone toe to toe with Tommy if Tommy tried to limit his pitch counts.
2007-10-26 11:14:34
168.   Bluebleeder87
I've heard some horror stories about Tommy as well but people in L.A. simply don't mind of don't care, we're blinded by Tommy is you will...
2007-10-26 11:15:26
169.   paranoidandroid
I don't blame Tommy for overworking pitchers, everyone was doing that. I didn't like him as a manager for lots of reasons, but I simply am disgusted by his empty rants of positive nonsense that seem so shallow and fake. It is his constant comments that I found and still find to be annoying beyond redemption. As a manager, he had his moments and I don't blame him for Orel's arm falling off or anything like that. If Orel were Bills in 2006 and 07, he'd have been treated like Bills has been. I find it very refreshing that Beckett wasn't used on three days rest and won't be in the WS either. I digress.

Lasorda: I guess he's our figurehead mascot. As far as staying out of the way, I don't think he has. I think he is chiefly responsible for DePo being fired. He has McCourt's ear and McCourt and others think he can sway Dodger fans if he supports the moves they make.

I don't mind his birthday party and all that stuff to honor an old manager, I just think he isn't the face of the Dodgers past success that he considers himself to be. Nor is he the face of the franchise now. He hasn't ever found a camera he didn't like. Nor an award he wouldn't accept. He just comes off as so phony to me I grimace when he is speaking. He is like a see-through politician. He did an interview for FoxSportsNet recentley where he was going on and on about having an asteroid named after him and how important he was to have an asteroid named after him. I just wish he'd chase that asteroid into oblivion.

2007-10-26 11:30:56
170.   LA Native
160

Not sure how we are less desperate than the Angels. Sure they need a power hitter, but they have all of Colon's money to use on finding one and can use the DH, which is not an option for us. I personally think LaRoche is a lot closer to being a major league regular 3rd baseman than Wood, but probably neither of them will get much of a chance in 08.

2007-10-26 11:32:06
171.   ToyCannon
So you must have really been torn when he took Team USA on that great run to win the Gold Medal?
Motivation, who needs it? Evidently ballplayers do because that would have been the only thing he brought to the table.
2007-10-26 11:32:54
172.   still bevens
The only thing I can't stand for with regards to Tommy is his relationship with his son.
2007-10-26 11:36:04
173.   paranoidandroid
171 I'm happy to see him be successful and his teams be succesful. He should just take it with a grain of humility and consider himself a part of something bigger than himself. It is his self-promoting air of importance that irritates me. I don't deny he's had a long and interesting career in baseball. I just don't find him loveable nor necessary now. I understand why I'm not in the majority. Just a personal opinion.

"Hey Tommy! Now go get your shine box."

2007-10-26 11:37:30
174.   paranoidandroid
172 Oh yeah, I forgot about that. What does that say about the man as a person? He's your SON! Love him. Period.
2007-10-26 11:40:09
175.   LogikReader
I tell you ,sports fans, Tom Lasorda is 80 now. Any perceived animosity will not be long lived (ooh no pun intended..)

Jon expressed his opinion on Lasorda once, and basically I agree with him.

2007-10-26 11:42:38
176.   LogikReader
To that I add: I choose to celebrate what he did without worrying about who he is or his moral fiber. It's the same approach I use for Bob Barker.
2007-10-26 11:48:14
177.   Jon Weisman
176 - That doesn't quite sound like my opinion on Lasorda.
2007-10-26 11:50:38
178.   Frip
169 I'm not a big Tommy fan, but you go too far. He's just ann annoying old dude, and he CAN tell a charming story. He's not Satan.

And you badly, with animosity, misrepresent his Fox interview, both in tone and context.

2007-10-26 11:52:33
179.   fanerman
177 What's your opinion on Lasorda, Jon?
2007-10-26 12:01:47
180.   Jon Weisman
You mean, what's my opinion of Lasorda's performance? :)
2007-10-26 12:05:02
181.   Ken Noe
I read the other day that the Dodgers were one of the few teams left without a mascot. Not true, I said, we have Tommy. When he does go on the the Great Dodger in the Sky, we'll have to hire some guys to dress up as dinosaurs or wieners.

As long as he's not my dad or the GM, I'm fine with Tommy.

2007-10-26 12:07:00
182.   kinbote
i'm still trying to process the dodgers.com headline of "Repko shut down but still optimistic." is down really the new up?
2007-10-26 12:12:47
183.   Bluebleeder87
Personally, I like Tommy simply cause he's been here for so long (continuity!) all the yelling & cursing threw the years was in the name of entertainment if you ask me.
2007-10-26 12:20:23
184.   paranoidandroid
178 You think I am equating him with Satan? Now that is a stretch. His Fox interview discussion about the asteroid was nonsense. How is the context wrong? Whatever. We can agree to disagree. I don't like him and don't find him inspirational or motivating. I find him controlling and phony. Just my opinion. You are entitled to yours.
2007-10-26 12:24:49
185.   Howard Fox
my take on Lasorda now...he is a huge Dodger fan who gets paid to be one...I wish I had his job...

my take on Lasorda then...you may like how he handled the pitchers or not, you may like how he handled the team or not, he picked his starters and stuck with them, and his teams competed for championships during his tenure as manager...

2007-10-26 12:25:14
186.   fanerman
I don't "hate" Lasorda but I wouldn't blame someone if they did.

180 Sure, why not? =)

2007-10-26 12:25:27
187.   Jon Weisman
179 - Tommy's success could have happened to a nicer guy. I do value his motivational skills, though some years they clearly worked better than others. But he's a close-minded blowhard and in some ways a rude and contemptible human being, and when people cheer for him at Dodger Stadium I'm torn.

His overuse of pitchers was in some ways a product of the times, so I'm sort of willing to write that off. At the same time, I don't want him advising anyone today about how much pitchers should throw, nor would I want his input in any transaction decisions.

He's a conundrum.

2007-10-26 12:26:38
188.   Kevin Lewis
On another topic:

Has anyone else been annoyed by the wide strike zone in this World Series. This in no way discounts the great hitting Boston has been doing, but the Rockies hitters are showing patience on pitches off the plate and are being awarded with strike calls. I have noticed plenty of times where this is getting into their heads and they begin to swing at anything close.

Just an observation.

2007-10-26 12:28:58
189.   Howard Fox
188 that happens all the time...pitchers with a rep as being good get those wide calls especially in the playoffs...and the rockies have no credibility since they are so new the the show
2007-10-26 12:32:20
190.   El Lay Dave
187 He's a conundrum.

- Wrapped in a Dodger Blue enigma?

- A conundrum? So was Tom Marvolo Riddle.

2007-10-26 12:35:11
191.   ToyCannon
My brain can't determine if the human part of the umpire strike zone is something I love about baseball, since every game the players have to adjust to the human factor of the strike zone, or if I abhor the fact that nothing is consistent and the whim of an umpire is to much control for someone who doesn't play the game.

Would I be happier if a triangulation of algorithms determined the strike zone?

2007-10-26 12:38:08
192.   D4P
Would I be happier if a triangulation of algorithms determined the strike zone?

I would be, but only if it worked quickly.

2007-10-26 12:41:27
193.   LogikReader
By the way, speaking of Tommy the Motivator, here's something else motivational:

http://tinyurl.com/yu5odw

Pretty cool, huh?

2007-10-26 12:55:21
194.   dzzrtRatt
Do you think we'll ever go to a more high-tech way of determining balls and strikes?

I'm not in favor of instant replay to overrule umpire calls, but it seems like the technology is there for umpires to know if a ball cross the strike zone or not. Fans see it clearly on TV now, assuming those little rectangular matrices are accurate. Why not give the umps a PDA that will tell them whether it was a ball or a strike. What's the argument for not doing that, aside from quaint attachment to the past.

152 I'm with you on this one. Time for the NL to just get over it. I don't like the DH, but the disparity between the leagues is rendering the World Series less meaningful. NL teams' player development system would be totally different if there was a ninth batter who didn't need to play a position. That we have a series in which the matchup is David Ortiz vs. Ryan Spilborgh is just absurd, and the unfair advantage given to the AL is not offset by the DH's absence from the NL-hosted games. The Rockies would have a different roster if they'd had the DH all season. That's the unfair disparity.

2007-10-26 13:05:27
195.   Jim Hitchcock
I, too, always saw Lasorda as full of himself,
and his selective treatment of playes he liked always bugged me.

But he did do a great commercial for the Commodore Amiga!

2007-10-26 13:08:35
196.   Jon Weisman
I'd rather the NL lost the World Series every year than get rid of the DH.

Keep in mind that it has been all of 12 months since the last, inferior NL team won a World Series.

2007-10-26 13:12:42
197.   Howard Fox
194 yes, you are right, a DH in the NL would open a slot for Delwyn Young
2007-10-26 13:15:20
198.   dzzrtRatt
196 As with Colorado this year, Detroit was rusty due to a long layoff. St. Louis didn't win that series so much as Detroit flubbed it, especially with horrible fielding.

The only other NL winners the past 10 years are Florida and Arizona, both of which did it with overwhelmingly great pitching, which I admit is an equalizer.

I guess we could just let the AL beat up the NL every WS, with a few breakthroughs when the NL team gets lucky. Just lower our expectations. The ALCS and NLCS are the real climatic events, and the World Series is more of an exhibition. They could put it on the Versus channel.

2007-10-26 13:16:34
199.   MikeB
129. Bob - I do remember it being an afternoon game. I did attend a night game at the Coliseum the following year vs. the Cardinals, but can't remember the exact date. The crowd was much larger, as was the haze of smoke above the crowd. A lot of people smoked back then.
2007-10-26 13:20:32
200.   Xeifrank
194. For the most part I agree. I think another part of the equation is that the AL has two of the highest team salaries in baseball and many of the other teams, feeling the need to compete are having to spend more money and snag up the better free agent players => better teams. Without having done any scientifical studies on the matter I can't say for sure, but it would be interesting to know stuff like....

1. Of the 10 highest salaried teams, how many are in the AL/NL?

2. The last 5 years how much money has been spent on FAs per league (per 16 for NL, per 14 for AL).

vr, Xei

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-10-26 13:20:50
201.   LogikReader
St. Louis winning the World Series wasn't any more convincing than Detroit beating the Lakers in the 2004 finals. Know what I mean? Every dog has his day.
2007-10-26 13:23:25
202.   Howard Fox
201 hence the term Dodger Dog
2007-10-26 13:24:38
203.   LogikReader
200

Excellent question, Xei:

here's what USA Today says

Payroll Rankings, 2007

1. New York Yankees $ 189,639,045
2. Boston Red Sox $ 143,026,214
3. New York Mets $ 115,231,663
4. Los Angeles Angels $ 109,251,333
5. Chicago White Sox $ 108,671,833
6. Los Angeles Dodgers $ 108,454,524
7. Seattle Mariners $ 106,460,833
8. Chicago Cubs $ 99,670,332
9. Detroit Tigers $ 95,180,369
10. Baltimore Orioles $ 93,554,808

7 out of 10 teams are in the AL!!

http://tinyurl.com/3dgcz3

2007-10-26 13:25:28
204.   Xeifrank
198. Defense is part of the game. Having a better defense, doesn't equate to someone flubbing the game/series to you in my book.
vr, Xei
2007-10-26 13:27:04
205.   Xeifrank
203. Thanks for the quick answer. That's where I think a large chunk of the disparity may be coming from.
vr, Xei
2007-10-26 13:27:25
206.   Jon Weisman
My point about St. Louis is not that it wasn't a fluke. It's that if not having the DH can't undermine one of the worst NL World Series teams, the recent stretch of AL dominance isn't enough of a reason to sacrifice one of the best aspects of NL baseball.
2007-10-26 13:29:25
207.   LogikReader
Just for grins...

Bottom 10 Payroll Rankings, 2007:

21. Texas Rangers $ 68,318,675
22. Kansas City Royals $ 67,116,500
23. Cleveland Indians $ 61,673,267
24. San Diego Padres $ 58,110,567
25. Colorado Rockies $ 54,424,000
26. Arizona Diamondbacks $ 52,067,546
27. Pittsburgh Pirates $ 38,537,833
28. Washington Nationals $ 37,347,500
29. Florida Marlins $ 30,507,000
30. Tampa Bay Devil Rays $ 24,123,500

Surprise, surprise, 6 of 10 are in the NL

Source is the same, see 203

2007-10-26 13:30:08
208.   bhsportsguy
200
MLB TEAM PAYROLL (US$)
1. NY Yankees 195,229,045
2. Boston 143,123,714
3. NY Mets 116,115,819
4. Chicago Sox 109,290,167
5. LA Angels 109,251,333
6. LA Dodgers 108,704,524
7. Seattle 106,516,833
8. Chicago Cubs 99,936,999
9. Detroit 95,180,369
10. Baltimore 95,107,808
11. San Francisco 90,469,056
12. St. Louis 90,286,823
13. Atlanta 89,492,685
14. Philadelphia 89,368,213
15. Houston 87,759,500
16. Oakland 79,938,369
17. Toronto 79,925,600
18. Milwaukee 71,986,500
19. Minnesota 71,439,500
20. Cincinnati 69,654,980
21. Texas 68,818,675
22. Kansas City 67,366,500
23. Cleveland 61,289,667
24. San Diego 58,235,567
25. Colorado 54,424,000
26. Arizona 52,067,546
27. Pittsburgh 38,604,500
28. Washington 37,347,500
29. Florida 30,507,000
30. Tampa Bay 24,124,200
Note:
Team salaries do not represent full team payroll. Number listed includes current salary for all players currently on the roster.
From ESPN.com

Bolded teams = 2007 Playoff teams

2007-10-26 13:30:15
209.   regfairfield
205 Though only five of those teams would be considered above average.
2007-10-26 13:35:14
210.   Xeifrank
209. I think three things are at work.
1. DH makes AL teams stronger.
2. AL has higher salaried teams (ie - Yankees, Red Sox).
3. Good/Bad leagues/divisions is somewhat cyclical.

Not sure how I would weight the three.

vr, Xei

2007-10-26 13:36:21
211.   LogikReader
Jon, when you said "I'd rather the NL lost the World Series every year than get rid of the DH." Did you mean get rid of the DH in the NL or the AL?
2007-10-26 13:38:06
212.   bhsportsguy
My guess is that Cleveland will move out the last third of salaries soon, Cleveland because their artbitration avoidance contracts begin to kick in next year for several of their players.
2007-10-26 13:38:36
213.   dzzrtRatt
206 That's fair. Would your position change if we're now 10 years later, and the AL/NL ratio of WS wins remains 70-30?

204 I ask b/c I really don't know. Was Detroit's defensive breakdown anomalous? I hadn't heard they were a bad defensive team before the Series.

200 I see in the NFL an aspect of the same thing. The AFC has superior teams, so other teams spend more to keep up and so the AFC's advantage becomes self-perpetuating. But a handful of aggressive owners in the NFC could turn that around within just a few years. If lack of money were the only reason for NL teams' weak WS showing the past decade or so, then I'd say, yeah, don't panic, don't change anything, just try to get the Dodgers, Cubs, Mets etc. to spend more and spend more wisely. But if the pattern is more ingrained than that, what would you do? Just let it be?

Here's one possibile fallback. What if the NL teams were allowed to carry 26 players on their roster up until the WS, giving them a chance to keep a masher with less defensive skills on their roster for use against the AL in interleague and WS play? When the AL and NL actually meet, they would have to equalize the rosters, but when the NL is playing the NL, they've got 26-man teams.

2007-10-26 13:39:47
214.   trainwreck
Seems kind of odd to me that the Dodgers put the Girardi story on their website.

I guess it gives them some attention.

2007-10-26 13:39:47
215.   LogikReader
211

Oops, that was badly phrased. Never mind :/

2007-10-26 13:41:04
216.   Jon Weisman
211 - Sorry, I meant that I'd rather not get rid of the DH.
2007-10-26 13:41:43
217.   trainwreck
All three major sports have an imbalance between leagues or conferences.

NBA
West over East
NFL
AFC over NFC
MLB
AL over NL

The West is also better in the NHL.

Kind of interesting how that is.

2007-10-26 13:43:36
218.   Jon Weisman
213 - I seriously doubt it. Frankly, I'm not that invested in what league wins the World Series. But I'm willing to let Delwyn Young DH for us in the World Series than watch 162 games of the Dodgers playing DH ball.

213 - Interesting idea. But the main thing is that there aren't 30 great DHs to go around, and it will always make sense for the AL to grab the lion's share rather than for a great DH to fester on an NL bench.

2007-10-26 13:44:53
219.   Jon Weisman
Tony Jackson just came out for adding the DH to the NL.
2007-10-26 13:45:11
220.   Howard Fox
218 as in, what would any team in the NL do with Ortiz for 162 games?
2007-10-26 13:48:11
221.   paranoidandroid
The talk of getting rid of the DH in the AL or using the DH in the NL is like talking about changing the American flag. There will be opinions from all angles and when all is said, nothing will change.

The NL will always have pitchers hit unless they are playing in an American League park. We all get the best of both worlds that way anyway. It leads to these type of discussions. Maybe the NBA can get a designated free throw shooter to increase scoring?

I love the strategy of having a pitcher hit even if watching most pitchers hit is an eyesore.

Good weekend my friends! I'm out for today. I'm having dinner with Lasorda's son.

2007-10-26 13:50:15
222.   paranoidandroid
26 man teams? I would favor that. Let's not forget they tried 24 man teams to keep payrolls down. I'm not sure they'd jump at roster expansion even with revenues up.
2007-10-26 13:53:13
223.   dzzrtRatt
David Ortiz wouldn't even be on the Red Sox if there was no DH. They wouldn't pay that kind of salary to a benchwarmer. He'd be playing first base for someone else, or Youkilis would be. That's what I'm stuck on. The DH is a hidden hand in the formation of AL rosters. It probably accounts for the higher payrolls, too. It gives them such an advantage against NL teams, and not just in their own parks. The WS and interleague play results bear this out.

Just so you know, I'd prefer the DH be eliminated. But it's part of baseball lore now, and the union wouldn't let it die anyway.

2007-10-26 13:56:09
224.   trainwreck
223
I think the quality of teams are just better in the AL. The DH helps, but I think teams just have to be more talented to compete in that league.
2007-10-26 13:58:57
225.   Howard Fox
if nothing else, the DH allows the AL teams to hang onto an extra batter that NL teams would not have the luxury of having...all else between the leagues is the same other than that...but that is a huge add-on
2007-10-26 14:01:03
226.   Howard Fox
I, for one, do not believe that aside from the extra hitter (DH) carried by AL teams, that they are truly better or deeper than NL teams.

There is just a cycle going on now, and over a period of years, things balance out.

2007-10-26 14:02:14
227.   ToyCannon
I'd rather the AL came to it's senses and ditched the DH then for the NL to fold and add it.
Given that watching pitchers hit is not one of the fun things about baseball but watching Greg Luzinski play LF is, which more then makes up for it.
I don't mean to be old school, but if you want the bat then you got to play the field.

Winning baseball brings in the fans not the DH gimmick.

2007-10-26 14:06:24
228.   Xeifrank
With the World Series (any 7 game series between two good teams) being more or less a crapshoot, the National league teams (and AL teams too) just need to be good enough to have a high probability of making the playoffs. There doesn't seem to be any urgency in the National League to ramp up the payroll, as it really isn't needed to the levels of the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels etc..., to make the playoffs. The Mets and Dodgers, two of the higher paid NL teams really fell on their face this year in missing the playoffs. The Dodgers follies are well documented on this site. :)
vr, Xei
2007-10-26 14:06:44
229.   LogikReader
Trust me, you have my vote as well. If given the choice, I'd much prefer Selig banishing the DH entirely.

Unfortunately, the perfect world and the real one are two different things.

2007-10-26 14:13:32
230.   underdog
219 That would be more interesting if it were only the first four words in that sentence.
2007-10-26 14:14:42
231.   LogikReader
Four words or five words?
2007-10-26 14:15:45
232.   Daniel Zappala
One additional point about the DH -- there are not even enough good ones to go around the AL. Typically there are only a handful of good DHs, and so the team that happens to be good otherwise, while it also has a very good DH (the Red Sox) have an easier time competing in the playoffs (against their AL brethren) in addition to the World Series.
2007-10-26 14:15:48
233.   dzzrtRatt
230 Four, or five.
2007-10-26 14:16:41
234.   dzzrtRatt
231 LogikReader: Faster fingers, faster snark.
2007-10-26 14:40:34
235.   underdog
Five. Damnit, five!

I can count.

2007-10-26 14:42:50
236.   kngoworld
If you can not find a below average fielder but above average hitter to be your DH, why can't a team use 10 players daily, one or two (infield and outfield) being a super utility guy who gives others a night off. Sort of like the rotation some wanted Nomar to have early on, just moving around the infield. Although, the guy with the night off still gets to hit.
2007-10-26 14:43:14
237.   fanerman
235 I think this is all a ploy. You really meant to write "four" all along but you played it as an accident so you wouldn't seem dirty.
2007-10-26 14:43:41
238.   ToyCannon
Spears' mother plans parenting book
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071026/en_nm/spears_dc_3

This will be followed by the Toy Cannon/BP collaboration on how to avoid hair loss.

2007-10-26 14:45:30
239.   ToyCannon
235
Amazing the difference a word makes which is why I'm always shocked that anyone would agree to do 60 minutes and not have any control of what they edit.
2007-10-26 14:48:36
240.   Jon Weisman
Diamond Leung:

"The Dodgers outrighted catcher Chad Moeller and pitchers Zach Hammes and Tim Hamulack, clearing them off the 40-man roster. Moeller and Hammes accepted minor league assignments. "

2007-10-26 14:57:44
241.   ToyCannon
Greg Miller hanging by a thread.
2007-10-26 15:10:14
242.   Marty
The Dodgers will not miss lacking a Hamulack.
2007-10-26 15:33:08
243.   bhsportsguy
241 Have you done a who goes on the 40 man roster list yet?

Dunlap, Lucas May, Russell Mitchell, Wesley Wright, Cory Wade are some of the guys I wonder about.

McDonald, Orenduff and Paul would be the only sure things I can think of right now.

2007-10-26 15:37:22
244.   CanuckDodger
Here's a question for those of you living in Los Angeles: Have you ever heard anybody in L.A. pronounce the city's name "Los Angeleez?" The reason I ask is that on a British message board on which I post somebody objected to that pronunciation, which is standard in Britain, and one of the Brits tried to claim that "Los Angeleez" used to be the regular pronunciation even in Los Angeles, which I don't believe for a minute.
2007-10-26 15:40:21
245.   Howard Fox
another thought on the DH allowing the AL teams to keep an extra batter on their roster that they might not otherwise keep, ala the NL....with all that the Red Sox have in the way of hitters, and the whole Ortiz what would you do with him if there wasn't a DH, and Ortiz vs Youkalis in Colorado thing, the Red Sox still have Lugo in their lineup, along with Crisp...so stats-wise, they have no more good hitters than do the Rockies
2007-10-26 15:41:58
246.   Marty
I remember people pronouncing it where it sounded like angle, Los Angle-es,

That used to drive me nuts.

2007-10-26 15:42:55
247.   Marty
But the only time I've heard Angeleez is in an Arlo Guthrie song.
2007-10-26 15:46:57
248.   Jon Weisman
244 - We frown on that pronounciation greatly.
2007-10-26 15:47:44
249.   KG16
I'll be honest, I don't think the AL is much better, overall, than the NL. In fact, I'd say they are fairly even. We've got the Nationals, they've got the Royals. Devil Rays, Astros. Giants, Rangers. Nor do I believe there is much of a difference at the top of the leagues. The Red Sox have not shown to be much better than the Rockies (the Francis meltdown in game 1 not withstanding). One can make an argument that the teams with more post-season experience tend to do better in the WS, but looking back at the winners since 1995, there are a few too many outliers for that to work out (Chicago, Florida, Arizona, and Anaheim).

As for the DH adding something, I don't buy that too much either. The AL score a whopping .19 runs more per game than the NL, the NL had 500 more HRs than the AL, and the difference in ERA between the two leagues was 0.07.

2007-10-26 15:50:11
250.   LogikReader
I'll grant you, the gap is closing, KG.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-10-26 15:50:26
251.   trainwreck
244
Just finished watching all of Twitch City and I loved it.

The Newsroom is a good one too, but I like Twitch a bit more.

2007-10-26 15:53:12
252.   KG16
One more thought on post-season play. It may be a psychological thing as well. Teams like Boston and New York (and to a certain extent now the Angels), have a mindset that nothing short of a championship is acceptable. Other teams make a great run and "are just happy to be there".

The second camp can be useful in keeping a team relaxed, but I think those teams run into trouble when they are faced with a team that has the "we are going to win" mind set.

Ok, enough pop-sports-psychology from me, I'm in Vegas, I should be doing something that is illegal in every other state.

2007-10-26 16:05:33
253.   Bluebleeder87
Hudsucker Proxy is on HBO!!!
2007-10-26 16:09:20
254.   KG16
By the way, anyone else surprised that the PAC-10 had 8 teams receive votes in the first basketball poll of the year? Six of those 8 are in the top 21. The only thing that could come close to making up for the coming Boston Nightmare (sweeping the WS, Superbowl, BCS title, and NBA title) would be a final four consisting entirely of PAC-10 teams.
2007-10-26 16:12:30
255.   Jim Hitchcock
253 Hey, I'll watch anything with Tim Robbins in it, but I always make time for `Bob Roberts'.
2007-10-26 16:15:34
256.   CanuckDodger
251 -- Glad to hear it. What did you think of the "Planet Of The Cats " episode? I can watch that over and over again, it's just so brilliant and bizarre.

248 -- So you do occasionally hear that pronunciation, then, Jon? Do you hear it from any specific group of people? Any other Americans? Because I thought it was strictly a British mispronunciation. Is there any truth to the idea that it USED to be common in L.A., years ago?

2007-10-26 16:29:07
257.   Jon Weisman
256 - I occasionally hear it on TV and radio or from out-of-towners. You'll sometimes hear it in old movies. I don't know the origin of it, but I'm pretty sure it's never been right.
2007-10-26 16:40:56
258.   El Lay Dave
244
"Comin' into Los Angeles,
Pickin' up a couple of keys"

No, it shouldn't rhyme. In the introduction to "Dragnet", Jack Webb always pronounced it "los AN-gel-es"; that is good enough for me.

Once upon a time, the regular pronunciation used to be "lohs AHN-hell-es"

2007-10-26 16:41:22
259.   Dodgers49
244. Here's a question for those of you living in Los Angeles: Have you ever heard anybody in L.A. pronounce the city's name "Los Angeleez?"

When I arrived in Southern California near the end of 1961 Los Angeles had a mayor named Sam Yorty who pronounced it that way. But he stood alone as for as I could tell.

2007-10-26 16:43:26
260.   Dodgers49
259. Make that far
2007-10-26 16:44:32
261.   Jim Hitchcock
Sam Yorty was a bit addlebrained.
2007-10-26 16:50:58
262.   trainwreck
256
That episode was great, because it was completely different from all the other episodes and they just throw it in towards the end of the series, when all these major story arcs are going on.
2007-10-26 16:52:39
263.   trainwreck
254
I have no idea why anyone voted for Washington on the pre-season top 25. Every other team receiving votes made sense. Heck, ASU should be decent this year and James Harden has a good chance to be Pac-10 Freshman of the Year.

Oregon State fans get to cry for the next few months.

2007-10-26 16:56:00
264.   dzzrtRatt
Actually, I think Yorty's pronunciation was fairly typical of the white Midwesterners who migrated to LA in the first half of the 20th century. I had friends whose Dads used the pronunciation, and they were usually from Oklahoma or Texas originally.

Actually, if you think about it, Yorty's pronunciation is closer to the proper Spanish pronunciation, except using a hard "g" instead of the "h" sound. The way most locals say it now, Luss-AHN-juh-lus is completely Americanized.

Another Okie remnant: San PEE-dro. For some reason, everyone says it that way, even though they know how "Pedro" is supposed to be pronounced.

Here's a question: Why is it WIL-shur boulevard? I had someone visit who kept calling it WIL-shy-r. That's probably more like how it should be pronounced, isn't it?

2007-10-26 16:57:31
265.   El Lay Dave
247 I (258 )didn't realize I hadn't refreshed in nearly one hour!
2007-10-26 16:57:35
266.   bhsportsguy
263 One week before a new if shortlived era begins.
2007-10-26 16:59:30
267.   trainwreck
266
Yeah, we got to do it this year or we are going to have to wait a couple years to get another shot.
2007-10-26 17:00:06
268.   Jim Hitchcock
I had someone visit who kept calling it WIL-shy-r.

Only if you're from a land where fairies and elves live in dells.

2007-10-26 17:02:04
269.   Marty
If Peedro was good enough for D. Boon, it's good enough for me.
2007-10-26 17:02:48
270.   dzzrtRatt
268 He was from Long Island.
2007-10-26 17:04:53
271.   Jim Hitchcock
270 I could go all John Rocker on you, but won't :)
2007-10-26 17:06:11
272.   El Lay Dave
270 which he probably pronounced "lon-GUY-land" :)
2007-10-26 17:13:26
273.   El Lay Dave
264 ...Yorty's pronunciation is closer to the proper Spanish pronunciation

Eh? No closer and maybe further, I think. In Spanish the vowel 'e' is pronounced sort of between an English short 'e' and an English long 'a'. (One sounds like a gringo if the it's overly like a long 'a' - your other example is probably more like PEH-dro, than PAY-dro). Pronouncing the last syllable of our city with a long 'e' sound doesn't have a Spanish or English justification, in my mind (or ear).

2007-10-26 17:25:04
274.   Dodgers49
242. David Pasti, Hamulack's agent, said his client's rehabilitation was going well and wouldn't rule out a return to the Dodgers organization. But first... "He wants to see what's out there," Pasti said.

I sure hope something is out there.

2007-10-26 17:26:02
275.   dzzrtRatt
Both are very un-Spanish, I would agree to that. I was just pointing out the irony that the dorkier of the two pronunciations has at least some things in common with how a Spanish-speaker would pronounce it.
2007-10-26 17:38:55
276.   paranoidandroid
274 He's the only piece we have left from trading Duaner and Schmoll. Duaner is going to pitch this fall.

I don't see the downside to having a Hamulack in Vegas. September call-up or insurance if Beimel is injured. What's the harm?

2007-10-26 17:42:12
277.   Dodgers49
>> James' opinion: Statistics analyst Bill James ranks starting pitcher Chad Billingsley 24th in his list of top Major Leaguers under the age of 29, and he ranks the Dodgers No. 20 overall in young talent in his new book, "The Bill James Handbook 2008."

The only negative comment James made about Billingsley: "May not have the conditioning to endure as a front-line starter."

The Rockies, Devil Rays, Diamondbacks, Marlins and Indians were ranked 1-5 by James for best overall young talent. <<

http://tinyurl.com/3d5cgo

2007-10-26 17:49:06
278.   trainwreck
I would love to know why we are only 20th when it comes to young talent.
2007-10-26 17:50:53
279.   Dodgers49
276. I don't see the downside to having a Hamulack in Vegas. September call-up or insurance if Beimel is injured. What's the harm?

I've just never liked Hamulack. I've never had any confidence in him. I always hated to see him come in. I want him off the Dodgers roster and out of the Dodgers organization completely. Don't ask me for an explanation. :-) That's just the affect he's had on me since he arrived. :-)

2007-10-26 18:16:10
280.   Dodgers49
The latest from Tony Jackson:

>> According to multiple sources, Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti has been in contact with Girardi about what is expected to be an opening on the coaching staff. More specifically, Girardi potentially would become manager Grady Little's bench coach if Girardi isn't named manager of the New York Yankees. <<

## ``The Dodgers won't be making any news until after the World Series,'' said Camille Johnston, the club's senior vice president for communications, in adherence with commissioner Bud Selig's edict that teams avoid upstaging the game's premier event. ##

http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/

2007-10-26 18:37:46
281.   CanuckDodger
From what I just read on-line about this pronunciation business, it seems that in the 1920's and 1930's the Los Angeles Times was a militant proponent of the Spanish pronunciation of "Los Angeles." Directly under its masthead, the paper always printed out the words "LOS ANGELES (Loce Ahng hail ais)." In 1934, the U.S. Geographic Board officially recognized the harder Anglicized pronunciation as proper, and the L.A. Times blasted the decision, suggesting an Eastern conspiracy to deprive the West of its softer-sounding Spanish place names. The Times claimed that instead of San Diego, Californians would now have "Sandy Ego," instead of San Jose, "San Joce," and rather than San Joquin, "San Jokkin."
2007-10-26 18:38:22
282.   trainwreck
"Grady, I would like to hire your eventual replacement as bench coach? How does that work for you?"
2007-10-26 18:49:59
283.   underdog
282 Hah hah, that's exactly it. Poor Grady.

Maybe he'll ride his motorcycle off into the sunset after next season anyway.

This is starting to feel like it could eventually be an episode of The Office again. Now Girardi is Ryan and Grady is Michael...

2007-10-26 19:13:27
284.   Jon Weisman
283 - It's like that episode of "The Dodgers" where Dan Evans got to interview for his own job.
2007-10-26 19:14:24
285.   MikeB
282. That is nothing new to the Dodgers. Walter Alston had to put up with Leo Durocher as a coach and rival in the dugout for a few years. Leo the Lip served as a coach for the Dodgers, in Los Angeles, from 1961 to 1964. He eventually moved on to manage the lovable Chicago Cubs in 1966.
2007-10-26 19:34:19
286.   paranoidandroid
Hmmmm.... I wonder if Miggy and Dontrelle think fondly of Girardi. I know Dontrelle loves Slappy. Maybe....

What would it take to get those two in the last year before they can walk? Remember, there are both going to get paid through arbitration in 08 too. Can Florida afford both of them or either of them?

2007-10-26 19:37:38
287.   Bob Timmermann
http://tinyurl.com/yoa2jh

Alan Barra reviews Plaschke's bio of Lasorda in the LA Times.

2007-10-26 19:45:02
288.   MikeB
287.
Ransom Stoddard: You're not going to use the story, Mr. Scott?
Maxwell Scott: This is the west, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.
2007-10-26 20:13:01
289.   Louis in SF
Rosenthal just had a good post about the Dodger situation and it strikes me that if the Dodgers fire Little, I am not sure how much better Girardi or even Torre would be for the Dodgers. COuld Little have really benched Pierre last year? I doubt it..Sadly if the Dodgers put in another manager it will have little effect for next year, unless they are able to come up with Arod at 20 million a year.

This all smells of a big PR move, which in the end will have little positive imapct.

2007-10-26 20:29:50
290.   Bob Timmermann
Rosnethal's column:
http://tinyurl.com/23hdnf
2007-10-26 20:31:11
291.   underdog
Wasn't that show canceled? Poor ratings with the younger demographic or something like that.
2007-10-26 20:31:43
292.   underdog
Oops, 291 was meant for 284.
2007-10-26 20:33:45
293.   underdog
Btw, Ken Rosenthal is often wrong. He could be right in this case, but I wondered about this part:

"Girardi, according to one source, has an offer to manage. That offer is not from the Yankees, who have yet to make a decision. Nor is it from the Pirates, who have eliminated Girardi from consideration, sources say.

That would leave the Dodgers."

Why would that leave the Dodgers? They don't have an opening at manager. Most of the other teams don't have openings either. We know it's not the Marlins. But I don't quite get how he went from Pt. A to Pt. G.

2007-10-26 20:41:51
294.   El Lay Dave
293 Right, I thought the same thing. Also, check out the lead paragraph.

"If the Dodgers want to fire Grady Little, they should fire Grady Little. It's indecent for them to let him twist while they mull over other options."

It's only rampant speculation based on shady sources that has Grady "twisting", not any action by the Dodgers. For all the press knows, Grady may have privately told Colletti that he was seriously contemplating retirement, or some such thing.

2007-10-26 20:56:31
295.   Louis in SF
294

Everything Grady said after the end of the year pointed to the fact that he wanted to manager the Dodgers again-he also seemed intent on playing the kids. The reason why I think there might be some truth to the Girardi story, ESPN isamost running the same story, with out the Rosenthal comments aabout Little twisting in the wind. Wonder who the source for this story is

2007-10-26 20:56:50
296.   Dodgers49
290. >> Is Colletti also in trouble?
McCourt announced that the Dodgers would keep Colletti as well as Little on the day the season ended. If he is willing to dump one, he might be willing to dump the other. <<

I'm not a Grady fan but he doesn't concern me that much. Now if you start talking about getting rid of Colletti then you've got my attention. :-)

2007-10-26 20:56:51
297.   underdog
Wasn't this the same pundit who thought the Rockies had defeated the DBacks and...the Cubs? And that the DBacks just aren't very good. Well, whatever.

--

Andrew Bynum's looked really good to me in this half of exhibition basketball. Really solid. Good moves in the paint, nice rebounding and effort.

2007-10-26 21:03:37
298.   dzzrtRatt
297

"Trade away these infernal young prospects for some experienced veterans. I want a championship now." -- Derek Lowe

"Trade away this infernal Andrew Bynum for some experienced veterans. I want a championship now." -- Kobe Bryant

I'm not the biggest Laker fan, so maybe I'm not being fair, but really what is the difference?

Okay, I know one. Kobe is a lot better, relatively speaking, than Lowe.

But otherwise, it's the same. Today's superstar wants his appetite for glory fed at the expense of the team's future.

2007-10-26 21:11:10
299.   Dodgers49
A Steinbrenner Mentions Patience and a Favorite

>> The identity of the new manager, Steinbrenner said, would be decided by Monday, with an announcement coming Tuesday if Commissioner Bud Selig allows it during an off-day between a possible fifth and sixth game of the World Series. <<

## Hank Steinbrenner repeated the Yankees' stance that they will not chase Rodriguez if he becomes a free agent. But he emphasized how much Rodriguez means to the Yankees and said the club was sincere in wanting him back. The Yankees' level of sincerity will be shown by the size of the contract extension they offer. ##

http://tinyurl.com/ypyzaz

2007-10-26 21:32:07
300.   dzzrtRatt
I'm gun-shy about saying Rosenthal's full of crap. I've dismissed things I've read that seemed poorly sourced that turned out to be true.

I'm impressed if there is someone in the Dodger organization who recognizes Colletti's FA signings, especially Pierre, as blunders. Just the acknowledgment that the Pierre signing is a serious mark against him is a relief.

If it was coming from the McCourts, it would be even more of a relief. Maybe DePodesta tutored Jamie on the difference between batting average and OBP before he left. Maybe the two McCourts read Dodger Thoughts together in bed to avoid having sex. (Just Tell Me That You Love Me allusion.)

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-10-26 21:32:25
301.   LAT
Girardi as Grady's bench coach virtually assures Grady will exceed expections next season and put Ned is a difficult situation. It will be like 2004 when Depo wanted to get rid of Tracy but couldn't because he had just taken them to the playoffs. We all know what happened after that. I have no problem with Grady but if what happened to Tracey and Depo happened to Ned and Grady I wouldn't lose any sleep. Ned has to go.
2007-10-26 21:34:46
302.   Dodgers49
Padres waive second baseman Marcus Giles, ending reunion with older brother

>> The Giles brothers reunion with their hometown San Diego Padres lasted only one season.

Second baseman Marcus Giles, the younger brother of right fielder Brian Giles, was put on waivers Friday. The Padres owe Marcus a $500,000 buyout of his $4 million option. <<

http://tinyurl.com/ytpqwo

2007-10-26 21:36:36
303.   Bluebleeder87
280

I really hope Girardi excepts the role, I'd love having him as our manager of the future. You can't help & wonder if Charley Steiner had something if anything to do with it, he really really pimped Girardi when the Dodgers played Florida a year ago. We'll see what happens I'm all for it IF everything falls into place.

2007-10-26 21:36:50
304.   dzzrtRatt
That NY Times Yankee article had an interesting quote from Hank Steinbrenner:

"But we really do love Alex, and let's face it, he's taken half the time to win over the fans as Mantle did."

Someone's been reading up. Nice to see.

2007-10-26 21:54:41
305.   LAT
Change of subject: I spent the day at the downtown courthouse. It turns out Britney and K-Fed had a hearing in the building. The media crush was unbelieveable. There were hundereds of vans, microphnes, potographers, anchor people, reporters, wannabes, fans and gawkers. It was a circus. Part of Grand Ave was coned off to make room for all the news vans. I had a few minutes to kill so I watched. There was a fake sighting and everyone completely lost it. People running to get a glimpse like thier life depended on it. Is this what these people do? Phil Shuman, the guy who used to be the anchor on channel 4 jumps out of a fan and all I could think is this is what you do all day with your life. I try not to be judgmental but how do you look yourself in the mirror. Spend your life wait wait waiting for a two second look at the new Anna Nicole Smith. Who cares. But of course people care or they wouldn't be selling a million magazines and Harvy Levin would still be on Channel 2. There were probably atleast 3 more newsworthy stories taking place in that building (including my case) but no one cared about anyone but Brit. Yuck.
2007-10-26 22:26:32
306.   LogikReader
Hey guys,

Tonight I am seeing Gm. 7 of the 2001 World series off my DVD recording. Here's what struck me about the broadcast.

-- Bob Brenly is really, really terrible. He has a tendency to make Donnelly decisions with baserunning
-- Curt Schilling was the AZ starter
-- There was an NFL on Fox update. Terry Bradshaw said "This Tom Brady kid could be good."
-- I saw a promo for the SERIES premiere of "24"
-- When it happened, I was rooting for the Diamondbacks... looking back now, I wish the Yankees won instead.

This was the Arizona Lineup:

Player/Age

Womack 31
Counsell 30
Gonzalez 33
Williams 35
Finley 36
Bautista 29
Grace 37
Miller 31
Schilling 34

"Oh no, they didn't buy a team!"

2007-10-26 22:42:51
307.   berkowit28
194 "I'm not in favor of instant replay to overrule umpire calls, but it seems like the technology is there for umpires to know if a ball cross the strike zone or not. Fans see it clearly on TV now, assuming those little rectangular matrices are accurate."

Actually, I can't figure out which rectangle is supposed to represent the plate - the inner one or the outer one? It seems odd that the outer one would be the plate - what's the inner one then?

But I could swear that about 60% or more of the times the umpire calls strike the graphic shows the ball well outside the inner rectangle, but the commentators never say a word. (To be fair, they don't show the graphic in totally non-controversial calls, so the 60% is just 60% of supposedly close calls. Still...

Which one is it? If the inner one, why don't the commentators ever say anything? Just not looking at it?

2007-10-26 22:55:24
308.   das411
I think I saw somebody ask this over on BB, but why exactly does everybody think so highly of a manager that managed the Marlins, coming off of an 83-win season, to...a 78-win season?

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.