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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

We Were Told
2007-10-30 18:42
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

We were told that Grady Little was on the same page as Ned Colletti and that Little's personality would be key to leading the Dodgers to victory.

How are we supposed to react when they tell us the same things about the next Dodger manager?

Comments (157)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-10-30 18:55:02
1.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
I don't know if someone has posted this already, but Grady Little's win % as manager: .559; Joe Torre's: .539.

Little never had a losing season.

Bottom line: Who cares who the manager is? Is there any empirical evidence to suggest managers make a meaningful difference?

2007-10-30 18:55:58
2.   yankz
He's a proven winner, that's why it's different!
2007-10-30 18:57:19
3.   bhsportsguy
Jon's patience is running thin.

That and the pending writer's strike, leaving TV filled with reality shows and news programs does not make for a good off-season.

2007-10-30 18:59:05
4.   Bob Timmermann
3
You're leaving out Stanford's waning hopes of making it to the Armed Forces Bowl.
2007-10-30 19:00:19
5.   bhsportsguy
4 But at least there is a new end of game highlight to replace the Band ending.
2007-10-30 19:11:22
6.   Greg Brock
I had a coach named Grady
He tried, he tried
Ned said he was in the clear
He lied! He lied!
Why oh why has Grady fled?
Couldn't that urge hit Ned instead?
I'll never believe a word he says again.
2007-10-30 19:12:30
7.   greenchris
I'll react by reflecting on 12 straight playoff appearances, and 4 world series championships during that time.

I'll believe mgmt this time.

Torre's not in LA yet, but as a lifelong Dodger fan living in NY now, when he does become the manager I'll be pretty happy with mgmt's decision.

2007-10-30 19:13:11
8.   Dodgers49
Old friend John Shelby is still around:

Orioles name Shelby first-base coach

http://tinyurl.com/3dpfzv

2007-10-30 19:14:00
9.   Ken Noe
That clever Ned, this clearly was all a smoke screen to deflect the press from the Lieberthal and Martinez buyouts.
2007-10-30 19:15:51
10.   fanerman
Ned, Joe, and Grady are all on the same page. But Ned and Joe are also in the same paragraph.
2007-10-30 19:16:20
11.   D4P
Grittle made something like $700k/year.

Torre will make roughly 7 times that much.

If confronted and forced to answer, I doubt even McColletti would argue that Torre will do 7 times as a good a job as Grittle.

2007-10-30 19:18:50
12.   Disabled List
Bronx Banterers have been coming over here and warning us about Torre's PVL proclivities. That definitely puts him in the same sentence as Ned.

Now I feel nauseous.

2007-10-30 19:19:21
13.   trainwreck
The notion that Grady's personality would lead the Dodgers to victory is so dumb. That is the real problem with the Dodgers.

The fact that we still do not understand what produces winning baseball is the real issue.

2007-10-30 19:21:26
14.   Bob Timmermann
I want a manager and GM who are in the same dependent clause.
2007-10-30 19:21:33
15.   D4P
The fact that we still do not understand what produces winning baseball is the real issue

You mean paying a manager $5 million a year isn't on the list...?

2007-10-30 19:22:56
16.   Matt Conroy
The 2007 season ended so disastrously and with the locker room is such disarray that I think a change was necessary. Unfortunately McCourt mishandled the situation and made the mistake of first giving Grady a vote of confidence and then having to squirm out of it when Torre became available. In the long run I think this will be proven to have been the right decision, but it doesn't look pretty, does it?

It's unfortunate that the arrival of a Hall of Fame manager has to be tainted by the stench of this classless sacking of Little. It would have been nice to see the club sever ties with Grady at the end of the season. Then everyone could feel a little bit better about Torre's arrival. I'm sure with time (and, I hope, success) people will forget about this whole sordid episode, but it's another black mark against an owner who seems intent on going about the right things the wrong way.

2007-10-30 19:23:49
17.   popup
There was a time when the Dodgers hired good people and gave them room to do their jobs. DePo was hired and not given room to do his job. He was fired if I remember correctly because McCourt/LaSorda did not his picks to replace Tracy. Now lo and behold the Dodgers are looking for a new manager two years after DePo was fired for not being able to hire the right manager. I can't say I am surprised. Whoever replaces Grady, or Ned when that times comes, will in turn be fired on a whim. The Dodger tradition of hiring quality people and giving them room to do their jobs is little more than a faded memory.

Stan from Tacoma

2007-10-30 19:23:54
18.   trainwreck
15
A team managed by Clint Hurdle made the World Series. That is all the proof one needs that baseball managers mean little.
2007-10-30 19:23:59
19.   Greg Brock
15 I just don't want to hear that the Dodgers fell short of landing Rodriguez because of "fiscal responsibility."

That's five million fewer dollars toward the best player in baseball.

2007-10-30 19:27:03
20.   D4P
Hey guys: the NBA started today!
2007-10-30 19:27:57
21.   MikeB
Winning is not the object.
Making money is the object.
McCourt wants to make money, lots of money.
McCourt says goodbye to Grady, hello to Joe.
More attention is paid to Dodgers.
More money for McCourt & more for Joe.
A-Rod wants to make money, lots of money.
McCourt signs A-Rod.
A-Rod makes a lot more money.
Dodgers make LOTS more money. McCourt very happy now.
Boras makes a lot more money.
Lakers trade Kobe. Angels weep.
McCourt makes even more money.

Greed is good.

2007-10-30 19:28:34
22.   paranoidandroid
This all feels surreal. It is an official circus with nonsense flying around. The bottom line for me: I will not believe what I'm told by the Dodgers for a long time.

Good luck Grady. I loved to hear you speak. I also want to win very badly, but I don't blame you for last year. They GAVE you Pierre and Gonzo. They told you to win with Hendrickson and Tomko. It wasn't your fault.

2007-10-30 19:28:37
23.   thinkblue0
19-

That won't be the reason we don't land arod...it'll be because we're probably going to end up signing jones to 18 mill a year.

2007-10-30 19:29:59
24.   underdog
man, why is it anytime I leave the state all heck breaks loose with the dodgers? yeesh. well, for what its worth, my dad the yankees fan loves joe torre so much he thinks he may root hard for the dodgers if this is official. I'd almost prefer mattingly just because I know a young mgr would be more open to the young uns, but I guess we'll see. as for a rod... I don't want him. let la roche play. the yankees west thing should stop with torre.
2007-10-30 19:31:11
25.   Bob Timmermann
This headline would scare me (or at least half of it) if I were a Twins fan:

Twins GM says 'we would love to sign' Hunter, Silva

Carlos Silva??

2007-10-30 19:32:07
26.   yankz
12 PVL? We use BFOG+ (see Shaun's explanation on the last thread).
2007-10-30 19:32:52
27.   underdog
btw, my nawlins trip is being cut short because I have to make a side trip to see my grandfather in florida. he's on his last legs, alas. could go any day. so it puts all this aside a bit for me.
2007-10-30 19:32:53
28.   trainwreck
25
Keith Law said Carlos Silva may get $12 mill A YEAR!!
2007-10-30 19:35:20
29.   D4P
Keith Law said Carlos Silva may get $12 mill A YEAR!!

That's more than I make in two YEARS...!

2007-10-30 19:37:44
30.   Hallux Valgus
I haven't had the chance to jump in because my boss had the audacity to promote me yesterday, thus seriously hindering my screw around on the internet time (for the time being, at least), but I find this all very disconcerting.

Disconcerting because McCourt apparently believes Little was the problem (and I understand that there is a question as to whether the previous statement is true), enough , at least, that Ned is given another chance to sign a manager (which, I believe, will ensure at least 2 years of Ned's job). You don't hire a manager and then replace the GM. If that's your goal, you hire a new GM and let him find his manager.

Further, Whoever Is In Charge apparently decided that Girardi, and then Torre, was the man for the job, without so much as turning over a few stones as to who might be a forward thinking, progressive manager. At this rate, expect Buck Showalter to be the next Dodger manager.

I would think differently had the Dodgers got Girardi, who (at least on the surface) is young and new and successful with young talent. Torre is just another name. Successful? Sure, why not. The same way that Luis Gonzalez is a successful left fielder.

2007-10-30 19:39:29
31.   Kevin Lewis
So, I will be in Vegas this weekend, and I am scared to even touch the UCLA game with a 2.5 point spread. Which team will show up for UCLA?
2007-10-30 19:40:07
32.   fordprefect
This all reminds me of a throwaway line from a Firesign Theater play something along these lines:
"Good evening. Those were the headlines. Now for the rumors behind the news."
2007-10-30 19:40:54
33.   Greg Brock
If you guys thought last year was crazy, this year's market is going to be crazier. Revenue through the roof and slim pickings...Bad things, man.

Bad things.

2007-10-30 19:42:33
34.   D4P
33
It's a virtual certainty that we overpay someone along the lines of Hunter/Jones.
2007-10-30 19:43:35
35.   Hallux Valgus
31 I'm taking the points. Ucla bombed, and the UA offense rolled against a crap defense on the road. 3 points is the standard line for a home team, so Vegas calls this a tossup. i think Ucla wins by a TD. (by the by- I've got a 3 point spread)
2007-10-30 19:43:50
36.   fracule
8 Yeah, good 'ol T-Bone.
I was going to vomit, but after that, I'm good.
2007-10-30 19:44:33
37.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
I've seen a dozen or comments over the last few weeks about how if the Dodgers sign A-rod to 300mm, it will be worth it because the Dodgers' revenue will increase by leaps and bounds.

How many more seats will the Dodgers sell with A-rod vs. without him? How many more shirts/hats? What is the profit from those things? I guess I don't have a good sense for the economics of baseball. But I do have a good sense for economics in general, and I'm not seeing how that deal makes sense.

2007-10-30 19:44:49
38.   Hallux Valgus
33 this is why the Dodgers should steer clear and dump 10 million more dollars into scouting and development.
2007-10-30 19:48:38
39.   yankz
37 Boras believed ARod was worth $48 million to the Yankees. He's exaggerating of course, and I'm not sure how LAD's TV broadcasts work, but I think his value is really, really high.
2007-10-30 19:50:38
40.   Greg Brock
Honestly, none of us have the first clue about what Rodriguez will get, but I doubt it will be more than a seven year deal.

220-230 million max. It won't even sniff 250 mil. That's just my guess.

2007-10-30 19:52:23
41.   Greg Brock
I should add that we don't even have a base line yet. When Hunter and Jones sign, then we'll know a lot more. But holy geez, this is going to be nuts.
2007-10-30 19:52:50
42.   Shaun P
37 I think revenue generated from sales of hats, jerseys, and so forth are evenly shared between the teams. So you're really talking about an increase in ticket sales (or ticket prices), concession (that is, food and drink) sales (or prices), and whatever advertising revenue the Dodgers get a chunk of.

But the real key is winning. Winning = lots of money.

If the Dodgers sign A-Rod and don't win, well, ask Tom Hicks how much revenue he got. I'll bet it wasn't enough.

2007-10-30 19:54:28
43.   ToyCannon
I stopped believing what a GM says about the same time that I realized Santa Claus didn't exist. I may have broken rule 6 but come on. Why would anyone with some tree rings believe anything coming out of a GM's mouth about anything.
1. All prospects are great
2. All new managers are great
3. The guy we traded for is great, the guy we traded was great, just not a fit for us.
4. The FA we signed was great.
5. The FA we let go was not a fit for us.
6. The moon is made out of blue cheese
blah blah blah

Actions tell the story, always has.

2007-10-30 19:54:51
44.   Shaun P
40 MLB's revenues were over $6B this year. If A-Rod gets $30M/year (from whoever), that's one half of one percent of $6B. That sounds about right, given he's probably the greatest player of his generation (and future home run king).
2007-10-30 19:55:20
45.   Bob Timmermann
Why are you doing it, Mr. McCourt? How much better can you eat? What can you buy that you can't already afford?
2007-10-30 19:55:48
46.   trainwreck
How nice of the fans to boo Kobe.

Sigh.

2007-10-30 19:56:26
47.   Hallux Valgus
from what I've read, Boras is tying Rodriguez's value into potential revenue from a TV network. That's only 4 teams- Yanks, Mets, Red Sox, and Orioles. The Yanks, apparently, don't want him. The Mets might, but don't have a spot for him. The Sox might, but they sell out their games already, and they play in a market relatively small for their revenue, meaning their earning power might be tapped out. Then there are the Orioles, who are terrible, and they're trying to move Tejada, who is Rodriguez-lite.

Long story short- I really want to believe that Bor-Rod has to sell short on this deal. I don't believe it, but lord do I WANT to believe it.

2007-10-30 19:57:06
48.   Greg Brock
45 The future, Mr. Timmermann.

The future.

2007-10-30 19:57:52
49.   bhsportsguy
37 Attendance has been creeping up during the last four years but lets just take it up to the 4 million mark or another 200,000, average Dodger ticket price is approx $21.00, and I will be real conservative and make it $30 per ticket, so that is only 6 million more in ticket revenuew.

But remember, they are redoing the baseline seats and adding new restaurants so if A-Rod helps with that, that will shoot that $30 figure way way up.

I would imagine he would sell a lot of merchandise but they still would only recoup the bulk of that in the early part of his contract.

The real money would come from media sources (radio, tv) and maybe new corporate partners.

2007-10-30 19:58:08
50.   dzzrtRatt
I just hope that whoever Ned finds as a potential free agent, the organization asks itself the question: Is this player in his prime? If he is, then a long-term contract is worth considering. But if he's older than 35, two years max. Older than 40, one year. Some risks are risks where you know the likeliest outcome, and yet GMs keep taking them.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-10-30 19:58:32
51.   nick
As a Yankee fan I just want to quote Ken Arneson:

"if McCourt is George Steinbrenner West, then considering the owner, the Dodgers have hired the perfect manager.....his handling/manipulation of both his meddlesome upper management and the muckraking press around him for the last 12 years has been absolutely masterful. "

of course, the question of if Torre just "has" that ability, or the ability is contingent upon immediate, stunning success, may be asked.

but his presence might--just might, Jon, it's all I can muster right now--his presence might bring with it some stability and sanity...

2007-10-30 19:59:37
52.   bhsportsguy
Are they really booing, wow.
2007-10-30 20:02:10
53.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
Does anybody know what MLB's profits were this year? 6 billion seems like a lot of revenue, but with payroll costs, taxes, stadium operating costs, etc., obviously profits are going to be a lot lower.

Does anybody take Boras seriously when he says A-Rod is worth 48mm a year? If the Yankees believed that, they would have paid him something close to that to make sure he stayed. Similarly, does anybody take Boras Seriously when he says A-rod will be playing effectively at age 45?

2007-10-30 20:03:57
54.   GMac In The 909
52 They aren't booing. They are telling Kobe that they'll help him "moooo-ve."
2007-10-30 20:05:16
55.   Andrew Shimmin
Torre is expected to bring at least two members of his New York Yankees staff with him in bench coach Don Mattingly and third-base coach Larry Bowa.

Tony Jackson updated his blog with the best news of the day.

2007-10-30 20:05:29
56.   MikeB
37.
2007 Dodgers attendance = 3,856,753
Capacity of Dodger stadium = 56,000
81 home games x 56,000 = 4,536,000
Potential attendance increase with A-Rod = 679,247
Add in 679,247 more fans for parking, beers, Dodger dogs, peanuts & cracker jack
Add additional $ for advertising on KCAL9, radio, stadium signage, etc.
2007-10-30 20:06:32
57.   Greg Brock
Man, I sure hope Donnie Baseball rocks the pornstache.

And grow those sideburns, baby.

2007-10-30 20:07:12
58.   trainwreck
55
I hope he can get Long, everyone seems to think he is good.
2007-10-30 20:07:49
59.   Eric Stephen
Where am I going to get my fix of awesomely bizarre commercials now that Robert Goulet has died?
2007-10-30 20:08:44
60.   bhsportsguy
56 If that happens, pay the guy 40 million a year.
2007-10-30 20:09:27
61.   bhsportsguy
55 Are we good, I hate to think that we are on opposite sides so early in the off-season?
2007-10-30 20:10:14
62.   bhsportsguy
57 Now the bad news, Coach Howland said he is going start Dragovic ahead of Kevin Love.
2007-10-30 20:11:04
63.   Sam DC
I'm sorry if this was linked before, but Posnanski on A-Rod is just powerfully good.

http://tinyurl.com/27446z

That Posnanski may just end up as the Weisman of Kansas City. If he sticks with it.

2007-10-30 20:11:44
64.   Andrew Shimmin
"Little was signed through next season with a option for 2009. Financial details of his departure weren't disclosed.

" 'That is between Grady and the club,' Colletti said."

It's too easy to take that to mean they're buying his silence. But I like easy things, so I'm asserting it, without compunction.

2007-10-30 20:11:50
65.   Greg Brock
62 Whatever he does, he does. He knows best.

59 Bruce Campbell

And, to play the ridiculous speculation game, this sets Mattingly up to manage the Dodgers when Torre leaves in three years.

2007-10-30 20:13:36
66.   Andrew Shimmin
I know virtually nothing about Larry Bowa except that he isn't Donnelly. Good enough for me.
2007-10-30 20:14:55
67.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
I guess it seems fairly probable that there is potential for the Dodgers to increase profits by $30 million over the next few seasons, but I'm not sure signing A-rod would be the driving factor.

If the the Dodgers really wanted to increase the bottom line, I think cutting payroll would be more effective. Apparently they can get nearly 4 million fans out while fielding a (roughly) .500 team.

2007-10-30 20:15:10
68.   Hallux Valgus
65 "If he dies- He dies"
2007-10-30 20:15:19
69.   bhsportsguy
65 I guess going to 2 straight Final Fours and Pac-10 titles gives him some cred.
2007-10-30 20:15:48
70.   bhsportsguy
65 And I was kidding, of course.
2007-10-30 20:18:43
71.   Greg Brock
70 Of course. But I don't question Gregory House, and I don't question Ben Howland.
2007-10-30 20:19:29
72.   Shaun P
58 Word is Long is almost certainly going to be re-signed by the Yanks.

66 Bowa also has a standing offer on the table to coach 3B for the Mariners. Just be glad Stottlemyre already signed on as pitching coach for the Ms. (Poor King Felix.)

2007-10-30 20:19:53
73.   dzzrtRatt
The audio of the press conference is on MLB.com, in case anyone hasn't already pointed there.

Heard it. Not sure what to think. Certainly the spin is Grady having second thoughts, Ned saying, "Grits, don't do this to me, bud," and Little finally saying that because of some unspecified group of personal issues, he's not only leaving the Dodgers, he's unlikely to ever manage again.

But that could also be a well-scripted lie.

If so, Grady is a good actor. He sounded like a guy ready to pack up the plantation.

2007-10-30 20:20:06
74.   bhsportsguy
71 But you want the sideburns don't you.
2007-10-30 20:21:53
75.   Griffon64
Now, here's how I feel: McCourt is like cotton candy - some fluff and sweetness, zero substance, and you get tired of it quickly.

Every public word out of his mouth seems to be a stream of PR platitudes.

Furthermore, I get the impression that he is not really shrewd or intelligent. His moves read like the advice from consultants. And hey, for every good consultant out there you have ten bad ones. The people who know what they are doing ... well, they are usually doing it. Those not quite good enough to do, talk about doing, and gets hired as consultants. More often than not. And McCourt seemingly listens more to the bad kind of consultant.

The Dodger front office is a joke and the organization is untrustworthy. The PR people will spin it and McCourt will smile at the cameras. Until fans stop supporting what is set to be the perennial fourth-place finisher ( third in a good year ) in the NL West for the next several years, there is no reason for him to change.

Okay, phew, I got that out of my system. I'm good until the next update on what the Dodgers are up to this season.

2007-10-30 20:23:23
76.   scareduck
16 - Unfortunately McCourt mishandled the situation

The same five words that apply to every event of significance with the Dodgers since McCourt bought the team.

2007-10-30 20:25:44
77.   overkill94
You guys are acting like we need to make an extra $30M a year in revenue to justify A-Rod's contract. Realistically, let's say he's more of a $25M/year player - then he only has to provide $5M of "extra" revenue to justify the cost. I would have to think that with the increased attendance, national broadcasts, etc. that it would make up for it.
2007-10-30 20:26:29
78.   MikeB
Earlier I wondered if the McCourts were getting weary with all the turmoil and criticism.

Now, after spending 90 minutes crawling down my favorite freeway on the way home from work, I have changed my point of view.

The McCourts have finally figured things out. This has nothing to do with winning or making Plashcke/Simers happy, or us happy, or even doing the right thing.

The Dodgers will hire a big name manager.
The Dodgers will sign the biggest star in the baseball universe to the biggest contract in history.
The Dodgers (the McCourts) will watch the turnstiles spin.

The guys who pay for those seats behind home plate are not on this blog. The people who pay for those hermetically sealed luxury boxes are not here. Joe Average Dodger fan is not reading this blog (no offense ladies & gentlemen - but you are not average fans - you are all extraordinary and special). The rich guy in the dugout box seat, the corporate VP in the luxury box, and Joe Average fan are out there listening to the Herd, to Romey, to Mason and that other guy. They are hearing this ...

Joe Torre is coming - he's the best manager in baseball. He's a winner.
A-Rod is coming - he's the best player in baseball. He's going to hit more HR's than BB and do it NATURALLY.

Season ticket sales will go through the ROOF.
Advertisers will line up to sponsor pre-game, in game and post game shows. The McCourts will have hit the jackpot.

It's Showtime!

2007-10-30 20:27:47
79.   Andrew Shimmin
Who's the woman moderating the call?
2007-10-30 20:28:49
80.   Greg Brock
78 And they'll win baseball games.
2007-10-30 20:33:48
81.   bhsportsguy
79 Probably Camille.
2007-10-30 20:35:07
82.   das411
72 - Did Bo not accept that offer already? Man, if you can get both him and Mattingly out of NYY, the 'stache goodness would be just off the charts...

I do kind of feel sorry for Grady Little though. Does anyone else think he just might end up in Atlanta, for when the new front office decides to retire Bobby Cox like happened to Mazzone there a couple of yrs ago?

2007-10-30 20:35:18
83.   scareduck
75 - Now, here's how I feel: McCourt is like cotton candy - some fluff and sweetness, zero substance, and you get tired of it quickly.

No. McCourt is really Eddie, the shipboard computer on the Heart of Gold from the Hitchhiker's Guide series. Ingratiating, dumb as a post, and stupidly, endlessly cheerful no matter how grave the situation.

2007-10-30 20:38:39
84.   MikeB
80. Yes!
2007-10-30 20:39:52
85.   Greg Brock
So, Ozzie Guillen is in the market for a CF, right?

Just sayin'. There's a few extra million for the A-Rod kitty.

2007-10-30 20:41:06
86.   Icaros
76

Add a "What are..." to your bottom sentence and you've made a pretty sweet Jeopardy question, or Karnac joke.

2007-10-30 20:44:20
87.   Ken Arneson
51 Please don't quote me. It causes earthquakes in my general vicinity.
2007-10-30 20:45:37
88.   Disabled List
Are people actually surprised that Kobe is getting booed tonight? After what he put Laker fans through this summer?
2007-10-30 20:45:56
89.   xaphor
83 . How about the crew of the "B" Ship?
2007-10-30 20:46:51
90.   Gr-ool
Just listening to the conference call. I'm going to miss hearing Grady. I believe we are going to hear more as time goes on about the "personal reasons" Little is leaving the Dodgers. Sure sounds like there's more to it, his perspective.
2007-10-30 20:47:51
91.   Icaros
87

Yeah, and those are especially unpleasant six floors up, I've just learned.

2007-10-30 20:49:37
92.   Andrew Shimmin
I've listened to the whole thing, now. They're both evasive as hell. The only response to questions about why it's happening are "personal reasons." Which could mean that Grittle personally wishes Ned Colletti's heart would stop beating. Or that, personally, he'd be happier with a big sack of hush money.
2007-10-30 20:49:46
93.   trainwreck
Apparently the quake was a 5.
2007-10-30 20:50:14
94.   xaphor
"Please don't quote me. It causes earthquakes in my general vicinity."

I'm all for relieving stress in our general vicinity. :)

2007-10-30 20:51:37
95.   Icaros
93

It seemed to last longer than usual.

2007-10-30 20:52:13
96.   nick
51 sorry--shall I refer to you in the future as "a source close to Baseball Toaster"?
2007-10-30 20:53:11
97.   trainwreck
95
That is what all my friends said, but it did not seem long at all to me.
2007-10-30 20:53:23
98.   StolenMonkey86
55- but really, why didn't we fire Rich Donnelly by now?
2007-10-30 20:53:39
99.   dzzrtRatt
92 Right.
2007-10-30 20:56:11
100.   Ken Arneson
93 5.6 is what I've heard.
96 Yeah, that might work better.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-10-30 20:56:22
101.   Icaros
97

Yoda did not react well to the event, either.

2007-10-30 20:56:54
102.   Greg Brock
I really hope more teams back out, ala the Yankees. Drive that market down. No Red Sox, No Yankees, No Cubs (ownership fiasco), etc.

Giants, Angels, Dodgers, Tigers. Four-way battle royal.

2007-10-30 21:00:33
103.   Eric Stephen
The best part of the conference call is about 8:30 into the call, where some jackass has his radio on and you can hear the think tank that is sports talk radio on in the background.
2007-10-30 21:00:50
104.   Bob Timmermann
For those not seismographing at home:

http://tinyurl.com/yuplcg

2007-10-30 21:01:16
105.   Eric Stephen
I'm all for Grady Little replacing Rick Monday in the Dodger radio booth.
2007-10-30 21:06:13
106.   LogikReader
It's great to see Charles Barkley at the desk again. Who is the MLB equivalent of Charles Barkley?

Is there one?

2007-10-30 21:07:17
107.   trainwreck
106
No.
2007-10-30 21:08:21
108.   yankz
David Ortiz would be closest, I guess. Nah. There's no one.
2007-10-30 21:10:00
109.   MikeB
Jon - Thanks for providing this forum for all of us. On days like today it is therapy and it is a tonic.
There is perspective, humor, and community.
Thank you.
2007-10-30 21:10:59
110.   Eric Stephen
106 ,107 Barry Bonds when he retires seems like the only one with enough of a [forget] you attitude combined with the insight of a former superstar.
2007-10-30 21:14:25
111.   LogikReader
one problem: Bonds doesn't have a sense of humor like Charles does.
2007-10-30 21:17:31
112.   Greg Brock
The closest thing to a baseball analyst with a pulse is probably Mark Grace. After that, not much.
2007-10-30 21:19:07
113.   Charenton
A-Rod is coming - he's the best player in baseball. He's going to hit more HR's than BB and do it NATURALLY.
------
----
More home runs than Brigitte Bardot ???
2007-10-30 21:19:21
114.   Sam DC
Don Sutton can snark a bit. Not sure he's an "analyst" for these purposes since he's not a studio guy.
2007-10-30 21:20:21
115.   Ken Arneson
110 Pedro Martinez comes to mind as one who seems to have a little bit of Barkley in him.
2007-10-30 21:20:37
116.   trainwreck
Eric Byrnes acts dumb and has a dumb haircut.

That's a personality for a baseball analyst.

2007-10-30 21:21:18
117.   Greg Brock
113 How appropriate that you would make that joke. Nice.
2007-10-30 21:25:31
118.   Vishal
104 i felt it.
2007-10-30 21:31:20
119.   Da Dodge
Wow, the hot stove just absolutely exploded today, even in Missouri where it's all about KU's undefeated football season.

Does anyone remmeber not so long ago when a certain family owned the Dodgers for a long time? And managers and vice presidents and players and trainers and traveling secretaries and minor league directors and scouts and probably even batboys used to stay in Dodger Blue for long periods of time. In my first 30 years the Dodgers had one owner, two GMs (Campanis and Claire), two managers, and stability. Forbes named the organization one of the top 100 companies to work for in the country--not companies in sports, but all companies. We are and were Jackie, Duke, Pee Wee, Pods, Sandy and Don, Vin, Chavez Ravine, Sutton, Tommy, Fernando, and Gibby. And that's where it ended. The Piazza trade started us down the road we now travel. Remember, Mr. O'Malley took the entire front office staff (close to 75 people) to Italy after the 1988 series to celebrate as a family. Can you imagine the McCourts doing that? Ch-ching. Ch-ching. Ch-ching.

I'm with Jon. I'm hard wired as a Dodgers fan. Nothing will change that. Just bring the sanity and start acting like a classy organization again.

2007-10-30 21:31:37
120.   MC Safety
Maybe Mo Vaughn if he was an extrovert.
2007-10-30 21:32:41
121.   MikeB
113. A diva is a diva is a diva.
2007-10-30 21:37:20
122.   trainwreck
I guess David Wells could be a Charles Barkley type.
2007-10-30 21:38:36
123.   Lexinthedena
119- The O'Malley organization was out of touch at the end, it's easy to forget that thanks to the FOX disaster...

And I'm sorry, I also bleed Dodger Blue, but O'Malley was a business man not a saint...Chavez Ravine is an ugly example.

I know this may open up a big can of worms, and I'm sorry...

2007-10-30 21:39:40
124.   MikeB
119. I remember. I'm afraid 'class' is not in the DNA of current ownership.
2007-10-30 21:43:11
125.   capdodger
119 Everyone knows that when you do canning on the hot stove, things tend to explode.
2007-10-30 21:52:42
126.   MikeB
123. O'Malley a business man and not a saint? OK. What sports owner do you consider a saint first, and a business man second?

Chavez Ravine an ugly example? Of what? Local political skullduggery?

O'Malley traded LA Wrigley Field (in South Central LA) for land (including Chavez Ravine) that was considered too difficult to build on by the city of Los Angeles. And, except for a few squatters, most of the CR population had already been moved out by the city prior to the offer to the O'Malley's.

2007-10-30 21:52:59
127.   Da Dodge
O'Malley was a business man, yes, and there are proper ways to run a business. He did them the proper way. I'm speaking of the younger O'Malley, not the elder. I don't know enough of the Chavez story to comment. But under Peter, it was first class. I worked in the organization for three years and saw it firsthand, and it was not always fiscally-prudent; for example, the way they threw over $1 million into extended spring training every year, outspending the other clubs involved dramatically. But the org reeked of class until the early 90s. About the time I (and my buddy JOhnny Pods) left. Hey, maybe that was it!
2007-10-30 21:56:36
128.   Kingmans Performance
just in from Ken Davidoff at Newsday:

full article at:
http://tinyurl.com/2as5fd

'...[Torre] got his desired exit, and now, on top of that, he's landing a plum job: big market, plenty of talent, great weather, easy media, awesome celebrity scene. And, lest we forget, Scott Proctor, who will probably warm up in the bullpen during Torre's introductory news conference.

I advocated Torre's dismissal from the Yankees earlier this month, because I felt the Yankees needed someone more in line with Brian Cashman's philosophies. But Torre still brings a ton to the party as a manager.

The players will have to respect him, given his accomplishments as a player and manager; with the backing of owner Frank McCourt, Torre will clean up that clubhouse. The media will be running errands for him by Thanksgiving.

With Mattingly aboard, with A-Rod possibly on the way, it's a good time to be Joe Torre.'

2007-10-30 21:59:19
129.   MikeB
127. Johnny PODS as in Johnny Podres?
2007-10-30 21:59:34
130.   Lexinthedena
128- That Scott Proctor line is golden...
2007-10-30 22:00:34
131.   Lexinthedena
127- I don't dispute that they ran the baseball operations with class, and I suppose that's what we are on this board to talk about...
2007-10-30 22:07:59
132.   Dodgers49
So who's in line to pay A-Rod, baseball's prima donna?

>> Since Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS - the night Boston began its epic comeback from three games down against the Yankees - Rodriguez has come to the plate with 38 runners on base, over the span of 59 at-bats. He left every single one on base, going 0-for-27, right through the Yanks' Division Series loss to Cleveland this month. <<

http://tinyurl.com/29u5de

2007-10-30 22:08:16
133.   fanerman
Matt Kemp Fact #19:
Matt Kemp provides free housing for the descendants of all the people who were kicked out of Chavez Ravine in the 1950s.
2007-10-30 22:11:29
134.   Da Dodge
Johnny Pods is Podres. He was a roving minor league pitching coach in the minors until late fall 1990 when the Phils hired him.
2007-10-30 22:22:38
135.   MikeB
134. I met Johnny at a baseball card show in Pasadena in 1989 or 1990? He was there with Dave Hansen. Johnny was quite a guy. He complained loudly (with a big smile on his face) that Hansen was getting more attention then he was and he (Johnny) had won a four World Series games!
He was my dad's favorite player (my dad was a lefty too). When you speak to him again, wish him the best from LA.
2007-10-30 22:44:40
136.   Eric Stephen
I haven't found a link to the full MLB list, but according to the San Diego U-T, both Michael Barrett and Milton Bradley are Type A free agents, meaning the Padres would get two draft picks as compensation for losing them via free agency if offered arbitration.

So, for Kyler Burke, Rob Bowen, and Andrew Brown, the Padres got their offense carried for a few months by Milton, and now they stand to get 4 extra draft picks (most likely top 50) as well.

http://tinyurl.com/3xza73

2007-10-30 22:45:11
137.   gvette
If Torre negotiates to bring in his coaching staff, should be fun to see how long it will take Larry Bowa to find a sparring partner.
2007-10-30 22:49:48
138.   Eric Stephen
Well, Larry Bowa can't be worse than The Windmill™ in the 3B coaching box.
2007-10-30 22:52:20
139.   RELX
For what it is worth (from Keith Law's column on ESPN):

If the rumors of Torre's going to the Dodgers are true, it may signal an organizational commitment to an older roster rather than a continuation of the youth movement that forced itself on the club this season. Matt Kemp and James Loney may be established by now, but players like Andy LaRoche and Tony Abreu are in more danger.

The Dodgers still have several holes to fill, including one or two rotation spots (depending on whether they cut bait on Esteban Loaiza and how Jason Schmidt recovers), but their bullpen is intact, including one Torre favorite in Scott Proctor. If the Dodgers choose to continue their youth movement, it will put the fates of players such as LaRoche, Abreu, Chin-Lung Hu, and even Chad Billingsley in Torre's hands. It would certainly be interesting to watch; Torre hasn't been handed difficult youth versus experience decisions on playing time since he left St. Louis.

2007-10-30 22:56:03
140.   trainwreck
My hope is that we targeted Girardi first, because we are going to go with the youth movement. Hopefully, Ned told Torre the plan and he agreed with it.
2007-10-30 22:56:40
141.   fanerman
140 Hopefully Ned's "plan" is the good plan.
2007-10-30 23:11:34
142.   fordprefect
83
Eddie can go stick his head in a pig.

As for McCourt,

....a pig's too good for him.

2007-10-30 23:17:03
143.   norcalblue
Grady Little was not the problem. The owner hired the GM. The GM signed Tomko, traded for Hendrickson (and brought him back), signed Pierre, Schmidt and Garciaparra, re-signed Martinez and traded Betemit.

It's been two years now since this owner ripped my heart out and it just gets worse and worse. Frankly, its not whether Grady is better or worse than Torre, Giardi or anyone else they bring in. This is about leadership. From the day it was reported that this guy vetoed the Vlad deal, I have been suspect. With the exception of hiring Depo (which I am convinced was an impulsive and randon act), the man and his wife have done nothing in four years to compel me to believe this organization has any long term chance for success. During this same time period the times I have been embarrassed, depressed, angered and frustrated are so numerous that I no longer keep score.

It may take 5 years, it may 25 years..but the Dodgers will never return to being a first class (let alone winning) organization until this man and his family sell.

Several posters have referenced the demise of this organization in this thread. That is really the issue for me. I saw my first game in 1961. Saw Koufax's first 2 no-hitters in 1962 and 1963 with my grandfather. The memories (some wonderful, some painful) from the 1960's through the 1990's of the organization are all in the context of pride and respect for what the Dodgers represented. That is no more....

2007-10-30 23:18:02
144.   fordprefect
83
Sorry for the delay--

Just installed Ubuntu and, well, so far so good :D

2007-10-30 23:22:41
145.   Greg Brock
Oh goodness. I didn't even think about Larry Bowa.

Matty, dear Matty....Please don't anger Vesuvius.

2007-10-30 23:23:09
146.   Mark Linsey
The whole idea of determining free agent worth based on how much extra revenue they will generate for the team is silly. It's extremely hard to quantify or predict whether fans will go to the ballpark solely to see one player vs. another. Furthermore, the number one factor in determining what sort of revenue you can get from ticket prices is how well the team performed the previous year, since that's what drives season ticket sales, and the most expensive seats are usually all sold as season tickets. The second most important factor is how well the team is performing in the current season, as that affects ticket sales for the cheaper seats as well as what percent of season ticket holders actually show up and spend more money on concessions, merchandise, etc.

A star can't save your revenues from multiple consecutive losing seasons - with a rare exception being when that star is closing in on a extremely high-profile record, e.g. Bonds, McGuire, or Ripken. If and when ARod is closing in on Bonds' home run record, that could indeed save a losing team from poor attendance, but that won't happen for several years out.

Furthermore, players on a winning team who perform well become stars. Just as winning breeds chemistry, winning also breeds stars who are popular among the local fanbase. Russell Martin, Matt Holliday, and Jonathan Papelbon could not be counted on to boost ratings or sell jerseys when they first started playing for their respective teams, but when they and their teams were playing well, they became those sorts of stars.

The bottom line is that it's rarely a good idea to think of player acquisitions from the perspective of "is this player worth it based on how much revenue he will generate?" It's pretty much always a better idea to think of acquisitions from the standpoint of "is this player worth it based on how much spending this amount on this player will help us win?"

2007-10-30 23:25:04
147.   bhsportsguy
146 Babe Ruth, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaq. Its rare but it does happen.
2007-10-30 23:26:22
148.   bhsportsguy
Also Reggie Jackson had a clause in his contract with the Angels where he made so much money as the attendance with up.
2007-10-30 23:33:41
149.   Greg Brock
146 Very well said. I don't agree with all of it, but well said.

If the question is "Will this player help us win?" and the answer is "Yes, he was worth double digit wins this year" then, well, there you go.

About the whole "Winning creates stars," I couldn't agree more. But you can't create stars from the bench. The wunderkind have to play, and that is, I hope, where Joe Torre will succeed where Grady Little did not (to say nothing of Ned Colletti, who escapes this fiasco relatively well).

2007-10-30 23:40:02
150.   LAT
Why would Joe Torre take this job?

Third manager in the short McCourt era.
GM who maybe on thin ice.
If Girardi rumors are true, Torre is owners second choice
Pay cut
Drama over the manager he is replacing
fickle ownership.

So I ask again why would the esteemed Joe Torre want this screwed up job?

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-10-30 23:46:14
151.   Greg Brock
150 He's getting five million dollars a year to live in Los Angeles, coach a very talented young team, be treated far better than he was by previous ownership, and he's getting five million dollars a year.

Money twice, you say? Yes...People like money.

2007-10-30 23:48:26
152.   Robert Daeley
150

* Core of young talent with indications that the pocketbook will open (if only due to increased managerial budget).
* GM was supported in this current situation by ownership. Both seem on the same page.
* Dodgers were Torre's second choice. It happens.
* Pay cut, but that was already happening. He gets a years increase and no insulting incentive package (as far as we know).
* Joe Torre knows from drama. This was nothing.
* Joe Torre knows from fickle. This was nothing.

2007-10-30 23:52:23
153.   bhsportsguy
151 And the last guy he worked for wasn't known for his patience with managers either.
2007-10-30 23:53:37
154.   gvette
Let's check the job qualifications:

1)High profile manager/World Series winner in NY;
2)Media savvy after handling the toughest sporting press corps anywhere;
3)Reputation for being able to handle stars and control the clubhouse;

Dodger fans, please welcome your new manager
.... Davey Johnson

As another Yankee manager once said,"It's deja vu all over again." (Hope not, but something to think about)

2007-10-31 00:01:36
155.   bhsportsguy
Third base coach Rich Donnelly thought Little resigned as a result of what he endured over a trying season.

"He was beaten down," Donnelly said. "He said, 'I don't know if this is worth it because I'm miserable.' "

Donnelly said it pained Little to be forced to move down veteran players in the batting order or sit them.

"I don't think he wanted to," Donnelly said. "He was forced to because the guys weren't doing their jobs."

http://tinyurl.com/398aya

2007-10-31 00:27:45
156.   Louis in SF
What is so sad about this situation is you can never get the real candor that everyone on the outside is looking for.

We will never know how many times Little went to Ned and said I want to sit Juan Pierre? Don't know if it happened but I do wonder. When you read the Donnelly quotes from the Times and also read the Plaschke article, you just wonder how much authority Ned really had.

But at the end of the day it is Dodger ownership that seems to be drifting and at the moment I don't believe much of what they say.

2007-10-31 00:28:17
157.   Jon Weisman
New posts up top.

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