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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Reason To Believe
2007-10-31 00:25
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Seen a man standin' over a dead dog, lyin' by the highway in a ditch
He's lookin' down kinda puzzled, pokin' that dog with a stick
Got his car door flung open, he's standin' out on highway 31
Like if he stood there long enough, that dog'd get up and run
Struck me kinda funny; seemed kinda funny sir to me
Still at the end of every hard day people find some reason to believe ...

- Bruce Springsteen

I couldn't have picked a much better night to go see the Boss than New Manager Night - not that I picked it. It just kind of fell in place at the last minute.

It was a night where I could feel my own age, as my back and legs struggled with standing in the general admission floor section, and feel the star's age as well. (Update: And I shouldn't neglect to mention the tattered venue, the Sports Arena!) Springsteen doesn't play as long as he used to, doesn't reach musically like he used to, doesn't strut like he used to, doesn't even spin stories like he used to. He can still rock, hard, man - just more of a sprinter than a marathon runner. But we're all getting old. In the first 10 seconds of the concert - literally 10 seconds, I kid you not - there was nearly a full-scale brawl in front of my vulerable nose. Who needs it, you know?

It was a night of simultaneously living in the moment and trying to recapture old glory. There were new great moments, like the "Spirit in the Sky"-infused rendition he gave of "Reason to Believe." But other times, I found myself integrating past memories from my previous Springsteen concerts (Sports Arena '84, Oakland Coliseum '85, Shoreline Ampitheater '87, Wiltern Theater '97, Staples Center '99, Fabulous Forum '02) into the live performance itself, something I'd never done before. Because it was better before.

Though the new album "Magic" is strong, there's no comparison with his old stuff. I wasn't setting out to be biased, but to compare the energy of a newer song Tuesday to "The Ties That Bind" or "She's the One" - or heaven help me, he played "Kitty's Back"! - there really is no comparison. Springsteen Live has peaked. What's good is that you can go to a concert and, unlike a baseball game, know you're going to get a win. But the best is behind us. Great show, not greatest show. There's no avoiding that yes, the Dodgers have more than a future than Bruce, however tenuous. Which I guess should be some consolation, for now.

In a way, the comparisons for Springsteen is with Magic Johnson and Vin Scully. When they go, they are going to be irreplaceable. My kids have already missed the best of them. They're going to have to hold out for their own treasures. Hopefully, this town can still provide them.

It's not as if these guys are dead yet. When Springsteen played "Born to Run" as an encore, I was savoring the words as if I was watching a farewell speech at Cooperstown. I was thinking, "This is it - this may be the last song I ever hear him play live." But he wasn't done. He wrapped up with a truly energized, guitar-driven burst of "Dancing in the Dark" - maybe the best the song ever sounded, followed by an Irish-tinged "American Land." It was awesome.

At the end of every hard-earned day, people find some reason to believe.

Comments (164)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-10-31 00:38:27
1.   bhsportsguy
I was wondering, where's Jon and then I remembered. Glad you had a nice time.
2007-10-31 00:42:05
2.   trainwreck
He also wants input on player personnel moves, which could lead to the free-agent pursuit of Alex Rodriguez.

Scariest part of the article about Little and Torre. This cannot be good.

2007-10-31 00:49:47
3.   Greg Brock
He wrapped up with a truly energized, guitar-driven burst of "Dancing in the Dark" - maybe the best the song ever sounded

Rule 6 just exploded and killed a small village.

2007-10-31 00:52:00
4.   bhsportsguy
3 Don't tell Courtney Cox, she'll Scream.
2007-10-31 00:58:00
5.   Robert Fiore
I stayed in but if I'd gone out I would've seen Neil Young. I am not now nor have I ever been the sort to ride the mansions of glory on suicide machines, if any such people actually exist, and when I went to the Staples Center show I realized that I really wasn't interested in entertaining the fantasy anymore.
2007-10-31 01:16:07
6.   Greg Brock
4 I see what you did there.
2007-10-31 01:17:14
7.   Strike4
I just hope Torre is not running on empty.
People need some reason to believe.
2007-10-31 03:28:00
8.   Brian Y
2. Do you think if Torre had input on personnel moves that Juan Pierre would be on our team....I think not!!! No manager in their right mind would want him as your starting CF on their team. I am not overly scared of that being a problem since Torre has won with lesser talent but had great defense and/or make-up to make up for it. Guys IMO like Paul O'Neill, Tino Martinez, Shane Spencer, Ricky Ledee, Darryl Strawberry and others that during their tenure in NY were by no means superstars.
2007-10-31 05:39:51
9.   Xeifrank
Hate to be a wet blanket here, but am I the only person who can't stand Springsteen? It could be from growing up in the "Born In The USA" era.
vr, Xei
2007-10-31 06:01:32
10.   D4P
I wasn't aware of "rock" music until the "Tunnel of Love" era, which seems less dated to me than the "Born in the USA" era.
2007-10-31 06:09:06
11.   Yankee Fan In Boston
2 i think any rumors of torre's presence in LA making the dodgers more appealing to rodriguez might be a boras ploy. i've read that rodriguez never really got over batting 8th in the playoffs in '06. this might be true, or maybe not, but i just wanted to offer some consolation.

maybe he does love torre, maybe he despises him. in the end, i have a feeling that rodriguez will follow the loot.

2007-10-31 06:23:14
12.   D4P
Some thoughts about TMYLM:

1. The latest episode was crazy. I was uneasy for the entire episode.

2. I had been wondering how they would work Hugo back into the show, given that the "Hugo crawling back to Jamie," "Jamie crawling back to Hugo," and "Hugo attending therapy with Jamie" storylines seem played out. During this wondering process, it occurred to me: Hugo is the only main character (other than Arthur) to not have any screen time or storyline of his own. We never see Hugo without Jamie, and we see nothing of Hugo's life other than when it intersects with Jamie's. I think there was one scene with Hugo in the classroom, but other than that, we never see him unless he's with Jamie. Why is that? All of the other characters are shown without their partner, but not Hugo.

3. Boy, is Mason annoying.

4. Jeff is apparently around for comic relief.

2007-10-31 06:26:30
13.   PadreJeremy
Comparing Springsteen to Scully is an insult to Scully. There are lots of people who hate Springsteen, myself included, but I dont know anyone who hates Scully.

I give credit to the Dodgers. Torre is the right hire if they bring him in and they are making moves to bring the team into the national spotlight where it belongs. Signing ARod is a real possibility and it would be a great move.

Dodger fans should be excited.

2007-10-31 06:42:31
14.   Steve in Rochester
I understand the beef with Juan Pierre, but I think the assault on his position in the Dodger lineup has gone entirely overboard on this forum.

Let us all remember that despite his poor OBP, the guy stole 64 bases (at an 80% clip for the first time in his career) and had 196 hits.

I'm just saying we could do a lot worse than Juan Pierre. He's not THE reason we finished in 4th place and out of the playoffs.

2007-10-31 06:46:36
15.   Sushirabbit
I bet Sylvester Stallone at least strongly dislikes Scully.

Not a big fan of Springsteen either, but I think Jon's point is that his days, like Scully's are quite clearly numbered, and when they leave there will be no one than can come in and do what they did. I know exactly the feeling because I get it everytime I hear Vin calling the games. Sort of Deja Nostalgia.

2007-10-31 06:51:06
16.   Sushirabbit
14

I disagree vehemently. See Baseball Prospectus' take, which I have to say is pretty strong on the matter. Pierre took away VORP and Money at the same time. Maybe his steals are worth something, but not the money and not the horrible lack of defense he brings. If he was not THE major reason, he was at least one of the biggest parts, perhaps only equaled by the injury to Schmidt.

2007-10-31 06:54:07
17.   Sushirabbit
... and if Torre somehow gets Pierre to become the 4th (or 5th) outfielder that he is, then the whole Little situation will be more palatable for me. I like Torre, but as Jon indicated I don't see how Pierre was Little's fault.
2007-10-31 06:55:21
18.   Franklin Stubbs
Jon, Great post. I think this just reminds us to really live in the moment and to apprecite what is actually happening as opposed to waiting for another championship. I remember passing on opportunities to see Ray Charles, James Brown and Porter Waggoner and now those shows are impossible to see. I miss Chick Hearn but I vividly remember the excitement he brought to those championship years when all seemed perfect. Luckily we have Vin Scully and we have the Boss with us now. While their primes are past, there is no denying that if you like what they do, they still can bring it. I personally feel that Bruce was beyond amazing during the last election but I bet that is part of why some people do not like him.

Here's to Vin Scully retiring to the longest sustained standing ovation in Dodger history. He deserves it. For what he brought to our Glory Days and for making the time since 1988 bareable....

2007-10-31 06:56:23
19.   Xeifrank
14. Hate to pile on and beat a dead horse, but #16 is correct. Just like to add to #16 the five year contract and the ex-managers insistence on playing him every day and batting him at the top of the lineup. Stolen bases have a nuetral (none) correlation with runs scored, OPS has one of the highest. Pierre would make a nice pinch runner. He does get alot of hits (singles), but also makes a ton of outs.
vr, Xei
2007-10-31 06:58:36
20.   Terry A
I'm with 16 . Pierre very much was a big part of why our team finished in fourth. Not the sole reason, of course, but he deserves a strong argument for the #1 position on the blame list.

I'm playing catch-up with the news from late yesterday, and this whole "mutual resignation" story strikes me much as the Star Wars prequels: We all know what's happened (and going to happen next), and the backstory they crafted after the fact is full of holes and really kind of insulting to fans.

In closing, the next time I hear Ned Colletti make remarks about the character of someone else -- J.D. Drew, Cesar Izturis, Nell Carter, Scott Boras, whomever (that's a made up word, by the way) -- my head will explode. The man is a worm.

2007-10-31 07:02:52
21.   Sam DC
Lot of powerful thoughts packed in to this short post. Compelling stuff.

On the retraction below, I haven't followed the twists and turns closely at all (whole situation kind of bums me out to be honest), but I did hear Jayson Stark this morning say that the version of Grady Little's departure presented by the team yesterday is completely at odds from what he has heard from several people close to Little. Now, Stark didn't identify those people, or say what he thinks really happened, but he is a reliable reporter.

2007-10-31 07:04:23
22.   Sam DC
I'd also like to repeat my question from last night, what is a team looking for in a major when they first offer the job to Joe Girardi and then offer it to Joe Torre?

I mean, another reasonably competent ballclub just fired Torre to get Girardi.

The only thing that I can think of is "pressworthiness."

2007-10-31 07:12:45
23.   D4P
I don't see how Pierre was Little's fault

Portion of Pierre that was Ned's fault > Portion of Pierre that was Grittle's fault > Zero

2007-10-31 07:16:26
24.   Jon Weisman
Comment 3 is a rule 6 violation, since "maybe the best" hardly qualifies as excessive hyperbole.

Actual fans of the Dodgers who judge Springsteen on his more recent work (I'm not saying that's everyone, but that's clearly some of you) qualifies as irony. You actually have the ability to go back in time and experience his championship years. With the Dodgers, you don't.

2007-10-31 07:24:30
25.   Sushirabbit
20, et al, just to clarify, just imagine Pierre was not signed and they got anybody else (for symmetry let's just say the Dodgers paid a nice hefty sum to Kenny Lofton for one year). At our most charitable we can say that Lofton was only slightly better than Pierre. However, when Schmidt goes down for good (along with Wolf) you should have some money around to get a better pitcher. AND you'd be in a better position this year when outfielders will be more numerous.
2007-10-31 07:35:16
26.   Vishal
20 aren't all words made up, really?
2007-10-31 08:03:48
27.   delias man
I can not confirm this, but these guys at Ducksnorts are saying Mike Cameron has a 25 game suspension coming for illegal substances. anybody seen anything to confirm this?
2007-10-31 08:20:47
28.   Jon Weisman
12 - Mason is poison. Jeff is indeed comic relief. But Hugo simply isn't a main character (nor is Arthur). They're recurring, but I wouldn't expect them to get the same examination as the others.
2007-10-31 08:21:45
29.   LAT
The primary suspect is holding the murder weapon claiming that despite how it looks it was a suicide. "No really officer, he jumped onto the knife I was holding." The guy with "motive" is 3000 miles away. The erratic owner is hiding behind the walls of his mansion. They are all pedaling the same story which doesn't add up.

One of the clues I am looking for is disclosure of the victims buyout. If he received full value for his remaining years, that is a sign it was a murder for hire. Get the annoying Ameritrade guy on the phone. If he receives less, it would give some credence to the suicide theory. After all, the guy in the mansion is not known for paying guys who jump out windows.

Where have you gone Lenny Brisco?

2007-10-31 08:26:23
30.   LogikReader
More HBO tv shows talk? I can't bring myself to pay extra money to watch tv... what can I say?

---

Believe it or not, I am having a lot of fun with the Dodger offseason so far. Am I wrong to feel this way? I know it's not exactly their best work (they being the Owner/GM) but it's certainly giving me something to talk about.

--

Jon I'm glad you had a chance to see "The Boss" last night. I was surprised at the venue: the LA Sports Arena! I thought it was demolished.

2007-10-31 08:28:31
31.   D4P
More HBO tv shows talk? I can't bring myself to pay extra money to watch tv... what can I say?

Some people don't pay to watch HBO shows.

You do the math.

2007-10-31 08:31:14
32.   Improbable88
24 - My "Through the Eyes of a Champion" VHS tape begs to differ. 1988 is always just a quick rewind away.
2007-10-31 08:34:36
33.   LogikReader
31

HBO shows is one thing, but I'd make an exception to watch the "Bout to Knock the Other Guy Out!"

2007-10-31 08:39:14
34.   Bumsrap
Alston and Lasorda each managing the Dodgers for 20+ years has me looking for the next 20+ year Manager and Torre isn't that guy. Maybe Giradi might have been and maybe Mattingly could be.

Maybe Torre will be the GM and Mattingly the Manager.

Will Loney benefit from Mattingly being on the Dodger bench? Will Mattingly bleed Dodger Blue if Mattingly Jr. plays for the Dodgers?

Just trade Kent already.

2007-10-31 08:41:05
35.   dzzrtRatt
After a series of staggering defeats, the Los Angeles Dodgers assembled in Vero Beach in early 2008 for a session with famed manager Joe Torre. And, luckily for us, the cameras were rolling.

Joe Torre: Alright, guys, I think we're ready to play this game. By the way, my name is Joe Torre. Yes, the Joe Torre. And I gotta tell you: fellas.. you have got what appears to be a dynamite game!

James Loney: Coming from you, Joe, that means a lot.

Russell Martin: Yeah. I mean, you're Joe Torre!

Andre Ethier: It's incredible!

Matt Kemp: I can't believe Joe Torre digs how we play!

Torre: Easy, guys.. I put my pants on just like the rest of you - one leg at a time. Except, once my pants are on, I win championships. [ the team laughs ] Alright, here we go.

[ the team begins to play. Jeff Kent plays second base, Derek Lowe jams his sinker, and Matt Kemps bangs on the baseball. ]

Kent: [ distracted by Kemp banging the baseball ] Okay! Wait! Wait! [ the game stops ] Joe, could you come out here for a minute, please?

Joe Torre: [ stepping out of the dugout] That was gonna be a great game. Guys, what's the deal?

Lowe: Are you sure that was okay?

Joe Torre: I'll be honest.. fellas, it was sounding great. But.. I could've used a little more Matt Kemp. So.. let's take it again.. and, Matt?

Kemp: Yeah?

Torre: Really explore the gaps this time. I mean, really.. explore the gaps. I like what I'm seeing.

[ the team starts again, as Kemp bangs more wildly onto the baseball while dancing flamboyantly. In the booth, Torre is smiling to keep from laughing. Before the session is interrupted, Kemp misses the baseball.]

Kent: Okay, wait! Stop! I'm sorry. Joe, could you come back out here, please?

Joe Torre: [ stepping out of the dugout ] Fellas.. now, we just wasted two good innings! That last one was even better than the first!

Kent: Well, it's just that I find Matt Kemp distracting! If I'm the only one, I'll shut up.

Derek Lowe: It was pretty rough..

Matt Kemp: You know, I could pull back a little. If you'd like.

Joe Torre: Not too much, though! Fellas, I'm telling you - you're gonna want those extra base hits!

Matt Kemp: You know what? It's fine. Let's just do this thing.

[ the Dodgers starts the game once more, with Kemp banging the baseball right next to Kent's ear until Kent pushes him, causing Luis Gonzalez to fall ]

Kent: [ stopping the song again, fighting Kemp ] Come on, people!

Joe Torre: [ running out of the dugout again ] That.. that doesn't work for me. I gotta have more extra base hits!

Nomar: [ grabs Kemp's shirt ] Don't blow this for us, Matt!

Juan Pierre: Yeah, quit being so selfish, Matt!

Matt Kemp: Can I just say one thing?

Joe Torre: Say it, baby. Say it.

Matt Kemp: I'm standing here, staring at Joe Torre!

Joe Torre: The cock of the walk, baby!

Matt Kemp: And if Joe Torre wants more extra-base hits, we should probably give him more extra base hits!

Joe Torre: Say it, baby!

Matt Kemp: And, Juan you are right - I am being selfish. But the last time I checked, we don't have a whole lot of games that feature the extra base hit.

Bruce Dickinson: I gotta have more doubles, baby!

Matt Kemp: ..and I'll be doing myself a disservice -- and every member in this team, if I don't perform the hell out of this.

Joe Torre: Guess what? I got a fever! And the only prescription.. is more extra base hits!

Matt Kemp: Thanks, Joe. But I think, maybe if I just leave.. and, maybe I'll come back later, as a pinch-hitter...[ starts to leave the field ]

Joe Torre: Aw, baby..

Kent: Matt, wait! Why don't you lay down those extra base hits right now. With us. Together.

[ everyone agrees ]

Matt Kemp: Do you mean that, Jeff?

Derek Lowe: He speaks for all of us.

Matt Kemp: Thank you.

Joe Torre: Babies.. before we're done here.. y'all be wearing gold-plated diapers.

Brad Penny: [ confused ] What does that mean?

Joe Torre: Never question Joe Torre! Play ball! [ exits back to dugout ]

Kent: 1, 2, 3, 4.

[ the Dodgers start up again, this time Kemp is hitting home runs in tune with the team. Close-up on Kemp as he swings the bat to freeze-frame with graphic: "Matt Kemp: First Member of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays Inducted into Hall of Fame, 2035." ]

2007-10-31 08:41:15
36.   Bumsrap
32 - Only if you convert VHS to DVD
2007-10-31 08:44:04
38.   D4P
Some people don't pay to watch HBO shows

To clarify, I meant "Some people watch HBO shows without paying"

2007-10-31 08:49:56
39.   El Lay Dave
I smell a wumpus.
2007-10-31 08:53:02
40.   ToyCannon
35 Nice

37
You can only sucker us once. Luckily most of us are not Ned's offspring.

2007-10-31 08:53:54
41.   Bob Timmermann
30
The Sports Arena is alive and well. It's almost used exclusively for concerts.

There is a new theater for music downtown called the Nokia Theater which is next to Staples Center.

Staples is an acoustical nightmare. And the Lakers were playing last night.

2007-10-31 08:54:57
42.   dzzrtRatt
I could've gone to last night's Springsteen show after all. A ticket fell in my lap, but I really couldn't use it (work, family obligations). Then when I read that I missed him doing "Kitty's Back," I regretted my decision.

But your post made me feel better about it. I would've certainly enjoyed hearing him play it again after all these years. He dropped it from his repetoire in the late 70s at least from the shows I've seen. It was the highlight of my first time seeing him, with his old keyboard player David Sancious just going nuts. Could he have topped that? No. It would have been very cool to relive the memory; cool but not essential.

2007-10-31 09:04:29
43.   Bluebleeder87
I bet Sylvester Stallone at least strongly dislikes Scully.

is there any history there or something I/we don't know about.

2007-10-31 09:04:39
44.   El Lay Dave
35 Comedy. Tragedy. Brilliant.
2007-10-31 09:06:55
45.   Andrew Shimmin
Colletti was asked, on the conference call, if he was going to be giving Grittle a filthy sack of hush money. He said that was between Little and the Dodgers organization. Part of DePo's get-lost deal was that he not talk about it; I suspect the same will be true this time, too. And that they learned their lesson about letting people know that the agreement included a no-snitching squared clause.
2007-10-31 09:07:42
46.   Terry A
43 - Scully was set to play the role of Clubber Lang in Rocky III, but he backed out at the last moment. They were forced to cast Mr. T in the role instead.

(Seriously: Scully sued Stallone over some drainage issues. The two are/were neighbors, I believe.)

2007-10-31 09:08:06
47.   Andrew Shimmin
43- Scully sued Sly for wrecking his retaining wall with a defective drainage system.
2007-10-31 09:08:53
48.   D4P
How come no one has ever offered me a filthy sack of money to hush...?
2007-10-31 09:09:57
49.   LAT
Arod has to be coming to the Dodgers. Otherwise, all this Torre celebration ends in a loud thud. Cue the trumpets, here comes Joe Torre- -the prelude to Arod. Wait no Arod? Arod signed elsewhere? How did that happen? Kill the trumpets, turn off the microphones, everyone go home. Great we have a manager but Frank/Ned didn't deliver the real prize. Without Arod this will be perceived as a Dodger failure. Its not that we had to sign Arod this off season but management has embarked on a path that has created an expectation that has to be fulfilled. Anything less will be a disappointment obviating any benefit realized by signing Torre. Was this the plan all along or have Ned and Frank painted their porch?
2007-10-31 09:10:54
50.   Bob Timmermann
It's a beautiful day for a lawsuit.
For a lawsuit today.
If you and I are out of dollars and cents.
Honey, we can always get an out of court settlement.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-10-31 09:14:02
51.   Bluebleeder87
46 ,48

Oh, yeah, I remember now it was in the news.

2007-10-31 09:18:47
52.   das411
9 - Looks like it's just you and me XF!

35 = awesome. Although Wade Boggs would like to know what you mean by "first"... ;)

2007-10-31 09:19:18
53.   Andrew Shimmin
48- I'll pass around a sack at the next DT outing. Once it's full, I'll happily filthify it before sending it to you.
2007-10-31 09:21:26
54.   dzzrtRatt
49 I don't think the Dodgers or Torre are promising anything with respect to A-Rod. All this move signals is that they'll probably make a run at him, which I think would've happened anyway. The Dodgers still have to contend with a lot of issues, including:

-Money. If there's another Tom Hicks out there, what's Ned supposed to do? Outbid insanity?

-Location. A-Rod's played this close to the vest, but I still get the feeling that he'd rather be on the east coast, as close to Florida as possible if not in Florida. The Marlin scenario outlined by someone here doesn't seem outrageously far-fetched, although it is outrageous.

-Torre, boon or hindrance. Again b/c A-Rod is not a big heart-on-the-sleeve guy, we really don't know if he loves or despises Joe Torre. Is he over the lineup insult of the 2006 postseason? The eager jumping off the Yankee ship could mean he has harbored resentment against the Yankees for all this time. Or it could mean he wanted to be free to follow Torre wherever he might wander. We just don't know.

Boras-Have Boras and Colletti reached a detente? If A-Rod got two equal offers, don't you think Boras would steer him toward the other one and not ours? We don't really know, do we?

In running through the (short list of) reasons for why I'm happy Torre with on the Dodgers, getting A-Rod won't be on the list til it happens. I'm not counting on it at all, and I'll be fine if it doesn't happen, as long as A-rod doesn't wind up on the Giants.

2007-10-31 09:23:46
55.   Bob Timmermann
Have Boras and Colletti reached a detente?

I would prefer rapprochement.

2007-10-31 09:23:50
56.   DadofMondy
Well Jon, I have to say, I love your blogging recently. Nice and frustrated. Rest of the world can sit around and put a positive spin on everything. 2007 Dodgers were an S-storm and the higher-ups don't get a pass.

I for one recount this to anyone who'll listen (especially my kids, who are forced to listen, on a daily basis)--it's therapy.

2007-10-31 09:24:27
57.   Gen3Blue
About the only thing that can be said for 37 is that it does not depend on Schmidt, Loaiza, or Wolf ever pitching effectively again.
2007-10-31 09:29:24
58.   CajunDodger
My company recently started a blog to allow employees to attack through online collaboration. They came to me asking how I would moderate comments. I showed them the DT Rules and they immediately adopted 9 of the 12 and are using them on our blog when we roll it out next month.

Just another Weisman contribution to the betterment of humanity.

2007-10-31 09:30:08
59.   CajunDodger
58
attack problems that is...we are not Blackwater.
2007-10-31 09:31:40
60.   Jon Weisman
"to allow employees to attack through online collaboration"

That's the funniest thing I've read in ages!

2007-10-31 09:32:16
61.   bryanf
I'm just finally listening to this conference call. I NEVER thought I would say this, but God bless Simers. I believe that was him asking all the questions that I was thinking. I don't think we will ever really know what happened here.
2007-10-31 09:32:19
62.   Jon Weisman
58 - I also read that the first time as "they immediately adopted rules 9 and 12," which was also good for a laugh.
2007-10-31 09:33:18
63.   LAT
54. Ratt, I agree with most of everything in your post but every article and every talk radio show are putting Torre and Arod together thereby creating an expectation. If it doesn't happen those same media outlets will blame the Dodgers, turning this positive into a negative.

As you correctly point out, the best "out" for Frank & Co. is if some team goes crazy and offers a stupid amount of money.

2007-10-31 09:35:23
64.   D4P
This tree next to us is being cut down today:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42219846@N00/

It's very big, and must be very old.

2007-10-31 09:36:53
65.   Terry A
54 - "-Money... [W]hat's Ned supposed to do? Outbid insanity?"

He did just that last year, outbidding the Giants' insanity for you-know-who. If he's gonna grossly overpay, I'd rather it be for A-Rod than for J-Pee.

2007-10-31 09:40:33
66.   Sushirabbit
I won't even be surprised if the Dodgers don't get Torre.
2007-10-31 09:40:56
67.   dzzrtRatt
55 When Warren Zevon was told his presence on a TV show would lend it "cachet," he asked, "Cachet--Isn't that like panache, but sitting down?"

I suppose rapprochement is like detente, but sitting down.

2007-10-31 09:42:35
68.   JoeyP
Too bad Josh Rawitch is on vacation.
Would have been interesting hearing his explanation of this week's events...
2007-10-31 09:43:56
69.   uke
You guys ever heard Springsteen's "Seeger Sessions." That is a great album.
2007-10-31 09:43:59
70.   sweepstakes
Regarding Pierre not being Little's fault . . .
correct. Playing him 162 times, his fault.

Reports say A Jones may land here. I don't want him here. Many think he just had an off year, offensively anyway. Check the defensive report. Fielding percentage is solid, but his putouts have been lower since '02. This is a player on the the decline, not just a guy coming from an off year. Not worth 20 mill. Not worth 15 mill. Not worth blocking a youngin'.

2007-10-31 09:46:15
71.   dzzrtRatt
65 Very, very true.

But Pierre's entire salary will be like a rounding error in A-Rod's deal.

2007-10-31 09:46:32
72.   nucats
Seems like it's happening:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10312007/sports/yankees/joe_goes_hollywood.htm

It's hard to see why so many are already playing down this move, as if they don't want to set themselves up to be let down once again.

If you look at the Dodger team now, it's pretty similar to NYY back in '95 when Torre took over from Showalter...lots of young guys (Jeter, Posada, Bernie, Pettite, etc.) who blossomed under Torre's steady hand. Things will be well in Chavez Ravine, relax.

And once the Dodgers do make the playoffs (w/ a pitching staff far superior to this past season's Yankees), don't forget..in the 1/8 chance that is the post-season crapshoot, Torre's got a 33% WS hit rate..not too shabby for a guy who supposedly doesn't know how to manage his bullpen.

2007-10-31 09:52:06
73.   bryanf
I didn't have a lot of respect for Ned before, but I always felt like I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Now, I just don't know. Why does he have to be such a politician? Why can't he just be forthcoming with information?
2007-10-31 09:54:42
74.   Humma Kavula
58 If anyone posting on your company's blog ever types "no-hitter" to describe a no-hitter in progress, I am going to be very upset.

Tell them that the proper term is "interesting." A perfect game in progress is "very interesting." Whether you say this like Arte Johnson is up to you.

2007-10-31 09:55:44
75.   Reddog
If Torre comes here, then he probably brings Mattingly with him. Then in 3 years when he retires, Mattingly becomes the manager. Whether this is good or not, I do not know.

If we also get A-Rod, that at least gives us the power hitter we've been lacking. With Kemp and Loney, that's a pretty good middle-of-the-order.

2007-10-31 09:57:58
76.   natepurcell
soo batting coach and pitching coach? They will be....?
2007-10-31 09:59:46
77.   Howard Fox
73 and GM's from other teams, or anyone running other types of organizations are completely forthcoming and open and honest...when???
2007-10-31 09:59:57
78.   Bluebleeder87
64

Don't be surprised AT ALL if the birds (& offspring) keep coming back. We recently cut a tree in the house & the birds keep coming back even though there isn't a tree anymore. They kick it up in the roof now.

2007-10-31 10:01:08
79.   CajunDodger
60
I am only funny unintentionally...better than not at all. They actually did adopt #10 at my behest to inject some humor.

You know, for our online attacks.

2007-10-31 10:01:42
80.   D4P
78
I have been wondering about birds and squirrels. There's a ton of both that appear to live in the tree. Hopefully there's no babies in nests up there.
2007-10-31 10:03:42
81.   Jon Weisman
79 - I wonder if they'll adopt unwritten rule #13.
2007-10-31 10:03:43
82.   bryanf
77 When their name is Paul DePodesta. At least I always felt like I knew where his decisions were coming from and what was going on.

Look, I don't expect them to record their phone calls and play them back for me, but come on...that conference call was just pathetic.

2007-10-31 10:04:32
83.   StolenMonkey86
Well, thank God we didn't get stuck with Jim Tracy again.
2007-10-31 10:05:46
84.   Terry A
82 - No, no, no. DePodesta was a terrible communicator, remember? Ned Colletti is much better. Trust Frank McCourt. Has he ever steered you wrong?
2007-10-31 10:05:52
85.   natepurcell
some input and I'll go back into hiding.

I actually liked Grady a lot. It might had to do with his humor and his laid back attitude, but I had no beef with little. He was stuck between a rock and a hard place trying to manage this team with some of the deadweight Colletti put on it.

I personally think this whole situation is a mess and rectifying it is going to be hard. Who knows, maybe they all are telling the truth but something seems fishy and not right in how this was handled.

Changing a manager and overhauling the coaching staff is a change that doesn't effect the structure of this team at all. We still have the same overall players, we still have the same player personnel decision makers, we still have the same itchy trigger finger owner.

I realize it is not even November yet and I should wait to pass judgment, but using Grady as a scapegoat starts this offseason off on the wrong foot.

2007-10-31 10:07:42
86.   cult of basebaal
75 as a yankee fan who lives in LA ... it will be very, very weird to see donnie baseball in dodger blue

as for 2 , well, i hate to rain on the parade, but i'd fly to vegas to make the bet that pierre will open the year in CF and batting leadoff ... if he reaaally struggles, joe will bump him to 8th, but if he's hitting around .300 and stealing bases, he's gonna be in that lineup like ripken

remember, this is a manager who somehow managed to find 330 at-bats (at 5 different positions, including DH!) for tony womack and his 50 OPS+ in 2005 ... and last year, cashman bsically had to cut miguel cairo to keep joe from playing him over better alternatives ... if joe gets roster composition control, things could get ugly ...

grady little wasn't the reason the dodgers finished 4th last year ... and joe torre wouldn't have changed that ...

it'll be interesting to see how this all works out ... it could go very well, it could end rather badly

2007-10-31 10:08:24
87.   fanerman
85 But isn't using Grady as a scapegoat better than using the kids? Unless Darth Flanders/McCourt plan on using bath Grady and the kids as the scapegoat.
2007-10-31 10:09:17
88.   CajunDodger
72
Has anyone heard anything like this?

Out of respect for Little, who managed the Dodgers for two years and fell victim to a fractured clubhouse and less than solid relationship with some of his coaches, Torre refused comment on the situation.

That comment was in the NY Post. Either they have better reporting/sources in NY than our media does, or they are just making crap up as they go.

2007-10-31 10:10:13
89.   D4P
86
As I've pointed out, Torre has a very poor record managing teams other than the Yankees.

And given the Yankee payroll and rosters, his record with the Yankees really ain't all that.

2007-10-31 10:10:23
90.   fanerman
86 Wow you're not exaggerating when you say Womack had a 50 OPS+ in 2005. It was really 50.
2007-10-31 10:12:05
91.   cult of basebaal
76 hitting coach, well, it might be kevin long ... who gets credit for "fixing" a-rod's swing during last off-season ...

but the yankees are reportedly interested in keeping long, so it's really unclear if he's going to follow torre west

pitching coach ... who knows, though you dodged a bullet ... mel stottlemyre has already signed with the mariners ... guidry didn't seem particularily useful last year but i don't know if he'd come west in any case

2007-10-31 10:12:40
92.   kinbote
i want to take a moment to thank Jon for this site. i've been around dodger message boards for a while, moving from the official site to the ezboard to some other places. without question, this is the best place for a serious dodger fan to come and read intelligent conversation. now all i need is a Canuck post to make my day complete. :)
2007-10-31 10:13:58
93.   Humma Kavula
75 Well, it seemed like the majority opinion at Bronx Banter was a preference for Mattingly over Girardi, for what that's worth.
2007-10-31 10:14:17
94.   adamclyde
35 that's classic. Although, it now makes me wonder what christopher walken could do as dodgers manager...
2007-10-31 10:21:19
96.   natepurcell
Any chance the Dodgers look into Leo Mazzone? I mean....everyone else is Italian.
2007-10-31 10:21:44
97.   fanerman
96 He's from the east coast. So he's got that going for him, too.
2007-10-31 10:23:27
98.   wireroom
So Curt Schilling listed the Dodgers as 1 of 13 teams he would sign a 1 year deal with. What does anybody think about that? I know everybody is concerned with A-Rod, but the Dodgers still need a good pitcher or two in their rotation.
2007-10-31 10:23:48
99.   ToyCannon
89
No one is interested in facts. Not in this country.
2007-10-31 10:25:02
100.   Daniel Zappala
96 You got a problem with that?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-10-31 10:27:17
101.   D4P
99
If I were Rule 5, I would feel somewhat violated.
2007-10-31 10:28:32
102.   ToyCannon
98
I'm on board but I think he ends up back with Arizona. He'd be a nice fit for everyteam in the NL West except for the Giants who need hitting not pitching.
2007-10-31 10:28:42
103.   regfairfield
86 Exactly. This guy thought "left fielder, Tony Womack" was a good idea. The hope that he'll bench bad players seems like a huge fantasy.
2007-10-31 10:29:43
104.   dzzrtRatt
73 Diplomacy is not a bad thing. A spoonful of sugar.

88 Both can be true. The NY media is far more professional and aggressive, and they also make stuff up.

It does make me laugh, though, how far ahead of the LA Times a suburban scribe from Westchester County was able to be.

2007-10-31 10:30:14
105.   ToyCannon
101
Kind of like your neighbors tree?
2007-10-31 10:31:09
106.   Humma Kavula
89 It is his staying power with the Yankees, more than his record, that shows Torre's genius. He held the post for 12 years. That's incredible. His singular genius is managing to keep the Yankee ship afloat while being attacked from all sides, including (and especially) barrages from his owner.

So for that reason (and for the reason that it probably doesn't matter a lot who the manager is), I'm holding onto a sliver of hope. As time goes by, it seems more and more like McCourt is Steinbrenner Lite. Maybe that's not right or fair, but if it is, Torre might be the right guy to shield the team from the owner and the press and just let them play ball. That's my reason to believe.

2007-10-31 10:31:12
107.   LeeLacy
76 91

As a matter of principle, I'm opposed to Ron Guidry becoming the pitching coach. Any member of the hated Yankee teams of '77 and '78 should never be permitted to don Dodger Blue.

2007-10-31 10:31:49
108.   ToyCannon
103
Maybe the masses will be thrilled if he can avoid benching "good" players.
2007-10-31 10:32:05
109.   JoeyP
Curt Schilling discusses his free agency. Mentions Dodgers as one of 10 teams he'd be willing to play for:

http://tinyurl.com/23szwm

2007-10-31 10:33:33
110.   JoeyP
Oops didnt see -98.
2007-10-31 10:34:49
111.   fanerman
I wouldn't mind adding Curt. I'm mainly against adding position players that aren't much better than the guys we already have (ie, misc. CF's, Lowell).
2007-10-31 10:34:58
112.   wireroom
I wouldn't mind seeing him play for the Dodgers at all. That's a potential rotation of Penny, Schilling, Chad Bill, Schmidt?, Lowe?, Loaiza?....I don't know, Schilling is a sucker for big time sports cities and history and all of that. He might like the idea of taking a shot in LA putting himself in history with all the great past Dodger pitchers. But my guess is he resigns with BoSox.
But if he did play for the Dodgers, they would have two starters with last names starting with "Sch" Interesting.
2007-10-31 10:35:18
113.   D4P
105
They are putting HUGE limbs into a chipper out front.

"I'm goin' crazy out there at the lake"

2007-10-31 10:35:51
114.   ToyCannon
106
Yeah, not getting fired while having one of the top teams in baseball for this century and never winning a world championship is something to really hang your hat on.
Woo Hoo
2007-10-31 10:38:29
115.   LAT
In the article linked above it says that Long will stay with Yankees and Torre is open to keeping Honeycutt.
2007-10-31 10:40:01
116.   regfairfield
114 He did win four.
2007-10-31 10:41:29
117.   Bob Timmermann
116
Yeah, but those were all 20th Century wins.

What have you done for me lately?

Even the Cubs won the World Series in the 20th Century.

2007-10-31 10:41:45
118.   fanerman
Yeah, Joe Torre may not be better than Grady. But does anybody think he'd be worse?
2007-10-31 10:42:14
119.   wireroom
one more question guys, and then I gotta go. I always read about these "inside" sources who give you numbers on contracts and breaking news. "A close source to Grady Little," or "a close source to the club." Who are these people? Or is this just a bunch of bull roar and guys like Colletti are leaking this info but saying they have no idea where this info comes from. Who are these invisible people that reporters know?
2007-10-31 10:42:29
120.   jasonungar07
Van Halen for me as a kid was the deal. I was 13 in 1984. I had Van Halen everything..posters, necklace, velcro wallet to keep my comb in my back pocket in my parchute pants(lol) in place. Not only did I know all the lyrics, but knew all the screams.

I saw them live at the GWF in 84 with my dad sucking it up and taking me and all my jr high friends...I don't want to ruin that memory by watching them try to do it 20+ years later. So I totally get it.

But Dang I want to see Springsteen badly since I never have.

2007-10-31 10:42:58
121.   DodgerBakers
I was kind of hoping to bring Mazzone on.
2007-10-31 10:44:03
122.   Humma Kavula
114 I see your point, but just look at the turmoil the Dodgers have gone through over the past 10 years. How many managers since Tommy let go of the reins? How many general managers? The Yankees, to their credit, had none of that. Sure, that team's performance had something to do with that, and maybe that was entirely driven by the payroll, or maybe it was MOSTLY driven by the payroll and Torre had something to do with it. I don't know.

Ultimately... I didn't say I was excited that he was coming. I said I was holding onto a sliver of hope. I'm not sure how much more tepid my endorsement can get.

2007-10-31 10:44:05
123.   Andrew Shimmin
Is Grittle being made a scapegoat? If Colletti et al. mean to be taken seriously about the reasons for his departure, then it seems like they're trying to make him look like a nutter, not a scapegoat.
2007-10-31 10:45:07
124.   Bob Timmermann
How about if the Dodgers bring in Brother Mouzone?

He's got leadership skills.

2007-10-31 10:46:11
125.   ToyCannon
I wonder if Torre realizes he still has to play the Angels every year?
2007-10-31 10:46:32
126.   uke
Dear Torre, Please don't keep Honeycutt. Thanks, Common Sense
2007-10-31 10:46:37
127.   regfairfield
118 I was never worried about Broxton throwing 110 innings with Grady, so I wouldn't rule it out. Also Torre seems to have a Jim Tracy like affinity to bizarre alliances for bad players, which Grady never had (just more of a Little League esque everyone gets to play bug). I'd have to see what happens to make a judgement, but Joe Torre does not impress me in the least as a tactical manager.
2007-10-31 10:48:04
128.   Marty
I'm sitting in a jury assembly room bored out of my mind. At least I have DT on my blackberry.
2007-10-31 10:48:24
129.   Howard Fox
if it were me, and its not, I'd be looking for a Bobby Valentine-Joe Girardi type of manager, a get in your face type...we've had a run now of managers who sit back and let them play, and Torre will be another of those...

then I'd surround the manager with coaches who teach the game to our youngsters...

just my opinion

2007-10-31 10:49:12
130.   Bob Timmermann
128
Federal or County?
2007-10-31 10:49:15
131.   LAT
Some may disagree but IMO, a managers ability to effectivly manage the clubhouse is at least 50% or more of his job. Filling out a line-up card is the easy part and while frustrating mistakes will be made, for the most part Torre will get it right. The real challenge will be to take the edge off of Kent, keeping Lowe focused, keeping Kemp and Loney from having sophmore slumps and figuring out what to do with JP. If Torre can accomplish these things he will have success.
2007-10-31 10:50:52
132.   Howard Fox
131 yes, that will bring success...oh one more thing...quality (& healthy) pitchers
2007-10-31 10:51:17
133.   fanerman
127 That's my biggest worry with managers. It's a "devil you know versus the devil you don't" thing.
2007-10-31 10:52:35
134.   Marty
County. I'm on the 11th floor of the Clara Peltz or whatever they call this building.
2007-10-31 10:52:54
135.   wireroom
Hey I love Matt Kemp and all the young guys, but somebody's got to get him to start catching fly balls with two hands. As a former high school and junior college player that drives me nuts. Maybe that was part of Grady's frustration as well. I would hope that Torre would make things like that a priority with the young guys.
2007-10-31 10:53:24
136.   Bob Timmermann
For those of you scoring the Trinity University 15-lateral play at home, the final scoring (more or less) was determined:
Trailing 24-22 with two seconds remaining and the ball at his own 40-yard line, Barmore began the play with an innocent 10-yard completion across the middle to Thompson.

But then, as fireworks were launched and the clock turned to 0:00, Thompson began the sequence of laterals to Riley Curry. From there it went from Curry to Josh Hooten (an offensive lineman) to Michael Tomlin to Stephen Arnold (another offensive lineman) to Thompson to Brandon Maddux to Curry to Maddux to Barmore to Thompson to Curry to Tomlin to Hooten to Maddux to Curry, who rumbled the final 44 yards for the inexplicable score.

In the course of the play, Trinity initially advanced to Millsaps' 42-yard line, then retreated to its 45, advanced to Millsaps' 41, went back to its 42, moved ahead to Millsaps' 29 before moving back to the 44 and then scoring from there.

2007-10-31 10:54:32
137.   Bob Timmermann
The Clara Shortridge Foltz Criminal Justice Center!
2007-10-31 10:54:51
138.   Marty
But at least I got to park in my normal spot so I got that going for me.
2007-10-31 10:57:17
139.   adamclyde
128 I can read DT on my blackberry, but can never sign in and can't post... frustrating! What browser do you use on your BB?
2007-10-31 10:58:23
140.   Terry A
Rudy Jaramillo might be a good candidate for hitting coach.
2007-10-31 10:59:09
141.   Marty
The secret is to sign in as soon as you get on the site. Don't read comments and then try to sign in. I just use the blacberry browser.
2007-10-31 11:00:20
142.   Jon Weisman
135 - Even Vin Scully would probably tell you that ship has sailed.
2007-10-31 11:00:40
143.   StolenMonkey86
127 - Reading how Celzic doesn't like that Torre doesn't make his players bunt much makes me feel a bit better, though.
2007-10-31 11:02:07
144.   Jon Weisman
136 - The call of that game is evoking Russ Hodges for me now, even more than Joe Starkey.
2007-10-31 11:03:21
145.   surfing slug
135 - Now that would really anger Daryl Thomas.
2007-10-31 11:04:26
146.   regfairfield
143 The Yankees were 4th in the AL this year in bunts. It's inexcusable for that team to have even one, let alone 41.
2007-10-31 11:05:46
147.   Howard Fox
135 Pierre catches with two hands
2007-10-31 11:06:45
148.   El Lay Dave
120 Moving in the other direction, I have tickets to see John Fogerty in Novemeber at the Nokia Center, or whatever it's called. He is now 62 years old, so I don't know how excited I can be to see him sing and play "Fortunate Son" or "Born on the Bayou", but since his heyday was my age 8-10 seasons, I gotta settle for what I can get now.

0 Sports Arena '84 Springsteen was the first date I asked my wife out on, but the not the first date we actually had; that came a couple weeks earlier - guess I couldn't wait. Born in the USA tour notwithstanding, Bruce still was a concert FORCE in those days. Bruce is, of course, 58 now, so expectation necessarily must be different. But my needs/demands as a fan at age (nearly) 47 are also different than when I was 24 - both for aging, evolving rock stars and everchanging sports franchises.

2007-10-31 11:06:49
149.   fanerman
135 Wasn't there some story about Sheffield not being able to catch with 2 hands? Though it's possible part of the story was that he dropped the ball intentionally to make a point.

Anyway, does Kemp drop balls?

2007-10-31 11:07:57
150.   wireroom
142 Maybe that ship has sailed, but that is just a fundamental in baseball that should be a part of baseball 101. Ethier uses two hands everytime....I have no problem with aggressive base running mistakes and things of that nature, but there are certain things like knowing how to back up outfielders on plays and hitting cut off's that I hope Torre would make a sticking point. I think he will be good for commanding respect from the young guys that this stuff is important still.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-10-31 11:08:37
151.   El Lay Dave
135 Dusty Baker caught one-handed as a Dodger OF. Over thirty years ago.
2007-10-31 11:08:53
152.   ToyCannon
146
For a team with the DH no less. Other then Minky who could be bunting on that team? Cairo? Philips? all of their 1st baseman?
2007-10-31 11:10:26
153.   Howard Fox
150 I have a bigger problem with the baserunning mistakes. That indicates to me not paying attention to his coaches.

I don't like the one handed stuff, but if he isn't dropping the ball, I'll grin and bear it.

2007-10-31 11:11:43
154.   El Lay Dave
152 Melky led with 10 (to go with his 89 OPS+) - you are right on with the rest, they are 2,3,4 with 4-6 each.
2007-10-31 11:12:23
155.   regfairfield
152 Melky had 10, Minky and Phillips had six.
2007-10-31 11:12:45
156.   wireroom
149 no he does not drop balls, but having that second hand there makes a difference.
2007-10-31 11:13:03
157.   El Lay Dave
153 After he drops the bat, baserunning is the most important thing a player does toward scoring a run. ;)
2007-10-31 11:14:14
158.   Howard Fox
157 ...so if he is a lousy baserunner....
2007-10-31 11:16:33
159.   ToyCannon
Juan Pierre according to BP was the best baserunner in baseball this year. I think it added less then one win.
2007-10-31 11:16:39
160.   jystakes
A betting website has Arod 3-1 going to the Angels and 4-1 going to the Dodgers. According to the story, AROD recently purchased a home in Orange County. Whether that is THE home he will live in, or merely some 1031 rollover investment, who knows, if indeed that is even true. However, it's still interesting.

If we sign AROD, why stop there? Why not sign Andruw Jones and Curt Schilling and make a serious run at the title?

furcal
martin
arod
jones
kemp
loney
kent
ethier

Penny
Schmidt
Lowe
Billz
Schilling

i know, i know, ill put down the crack pipe.

2007-10-31 11:16:48
161.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2007-10-31 11:18:27
162.   Howard Fox
baserunning...I thought I read somewhere that making out on the basepaths hurt far more than good baserunning helped?
2007-10-31 11:18:54
163.   wireroom
153 Well it is one thing to not listen to coaches out of disrespect. inexcusable and that should not be a part of the ball club. Torre may be good for commanding that respect without coming off as a jerk.
2007-10-31 11:21:04
164.   Howard Fox
if I were serious about getting ARod, I'd see if there was a way to get rid of Kent and Furcal
2007-10-31 11:22:27
165.   Howard Fox
163 and to follow your point, I seem to recall Kent using the disrespect card when speaking of the young kids
2007-10-31 11:22:52
166.   Howard Fox
not that I am a Kent fan

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