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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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Torre Tidbits
2007-11-05 11:02
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Tidbits from the Joe Torre press conference:

  • By his own admission, Torre knows less about the Dodgers than just about anyone.
  • Jeff Kent seems enthusiastic about Torre's arrival.
  • The key to a unified clubhouse is "all about wanting the same thing." As banal as that might sound, Torre couldn't have been more modestly personable, and it does seem hard to imagine that he wouldn't be a great leader of men.
  • Torre is "very excited about the number of talented young players that we have."
  • The local print media saved all their questions for later.
  • At the risk of seeming like I'm playing "Gotcha," I would recommend that Torre sharpen up his generalizations like "the Latin community brings passion" and "Latin players have no fear." He might not have meant this the way it sounded, but it comes across as rather simplistic.
  • Vin Scully once joked that after Torre moved to third base the day after a rough home-plate collision, he would be forever known as "Chicken Catcher-Torre." And then said when he told Tommy Lasorda that story, Lasorda ordered two.

  • Comments (395)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2007-11-05 11:13:42
    1.   Jon Weisman
    Harold Reynolds is interviewing Logan White on MLB.com live right now.
    2007-11-05 11:13:49
    2.   Bob Timmermann
    The L.A. Latino community has little in common with players like Tony Abreu. The L.A. Latino community has a lot more in common with Nomar Garciaparra.
    2007-11-05 11:14:29
    3.   bhsportsguy
    The writer was from La Opinion, he's asking questions from that point of view.

    Saying that, Joe could have made it clear that his answer re players was based only on his personal interactions and that on the communities in Los Angeles, that he knows that LA has great fans from many backgrounds who come out and support them in big numbers.

    2007-11-05 11:14:33
    4.   JoeyP
    Meh.

    Wake me when Gonzo resigns, or Matt Kemp is traded, or A-Rod signs.

    2007-11-05 11:14:48
    5.   Bluebleeder87
    Luis in SF made an interesting observation about NedCo, I hope he copies & pastes it on the new thread.
    2007-11-05 11:15:19
    6.   Bill Crain
    Colletti appears to be wearing elevator shoes. I don't see how you can trust a guy like that.
    2007-11-05 11:15:35
    7.   Jon Weisman
    Logan White on LaRoche: "Andy has one thing in our system … and that's pwer. Andy can bring that to the table. He's an aggressive, aggressive hitter at the plate. He doesn't stirke out a lot for a kid who has power, he isn't afraid to take a walk, and the ball really jumps off his bat."
    2007-11-05 11:16:52
    8.   Terry A
    7 - But how's his character?
    2007-11-05 11:17:04
    9.   Matt Conroy
    How should he have responded to that fairly vague question about the Latino community? I thought he handled it fairly well.
    2007-11-05 11:17:30
    10.   Jon Weisman
    3 - I'm having trouble understanding your comment. In any case, again, I don't think the question required a generalization in response, regardless of whether Torre knows the name of a single player on his new team.
    2007-11-05 11:17:53
    11.   KG16
    Kevin Kennedy is annoying me with his talk of Matt Kemp running through stop signs. The former third base coach never bothered to put up a stop sign.
    2007-11-05 11:19:06
    12.   Andrew Shimmin
    Jamie McCourt is being careful not to oversell. "He's going to do everything we expect. He's going to bring a World Series to L.A., I just know it."
    2007-11-05 11:19:06
    13.   Jon Weisman
    9 - I'm not trying to roast the guy, but I disagree. He chose complimentary adjectives, which won't get him in trouble, but he was still generalizing.
    2007-11-05 11:19:43
    14.   bigcpa
    Jon do you have a link for the White interview?
    2007-11-05 11:20:42
    15.   StolenMonkey86
    11 - If he did, would you believe it was a stop sign anyway?
    2007-11-05 11:20:46
    16.   Ken Noe
    12 And suddenly, I thought of Georgia Frontiere.
    2007-11-05 11:20:59
    17.   Greg Brock
    12 "He knows everything about everybody"

    I know you're happy, Jaime...But lay off the Yoda before interviews.

    2007-11-05 11:21:04
    18.   Jon Weisman
    14 - It was streaming on the same link that the press conference was on.
    2007-11-05 11:21:42
    19.   Matt Conroy
    13 - Well he mentioned Cabrera and Cano by name, so it wasn't all that much of a generalization.
    2007-11-05 11:21:57
    20.   uke
    13 - How do you answer such a broad question without generalizations?
    2007-11-05 11:22:17
    21.   Bob Timmermann
    16
    I have a lot more respect for Jamie McCourt than Georgia Frontiere. Jamie McCourt has a business background instead of a "marrying a rich guy" background.
    2007-11-05 11:22:23
    22.   gvette
    One can almost see Kemp's eyes glazing over once Joe starts waxing nostalgic about the Milwaukee Braves
    2007-11-05 11:22:30
    23.   wireroom
    11 I saw Matt Kemp run thru 3 stop sign with my own eyes. One time, he reversed himself in the nick of time. I hope they hold on to all of the young guys including Kemp, Laroche, and Young and Torre commands the respect for those fundamentals that are important, like good defense. But alas, I doubt that the Dodgers are going to keep all of those guys and they are going to make a run at A-Rod which I don't like.
    2007-11-05 11:22:56
    24.   Greg Brock
    Uncle Joe, tell me a story.
    2007-11-05 11:24:15
    25.   Jon Weisman
    20 - Any number of ways. Try me.
    2007-11-05 11:24:18
    26.   PalmdaleSteve1
    In a steel cage match between Larry Bowa and Jeff Kent, who wins?

    Appearing at a WWF match soon?

    2007-11-05 11:24:49
    27.   Ken Noe
    21 She did gush like Georgia though. For Torre, think Bert Jones.
    2007-11-05 11:25:59
    28.   Andrew Shimmin
    20- You reject the premise. Or you ignore the specific question and talk about something else.

    Ooh--forest fire analogy for Tommy. Not too soon?

    2007-11-05 11:26:08
    29.   regfairfield
    Has there ever been a manager that hasn't stressed fundamentals at his press confrence?

    Hitting the cutoff man, eh, who cares?

    2007-11-05 11:26:26
    30.   bhsportsguy
    10 All I am saying is that he could have made it clear that his answers were based on his own experiece when it came to players and as far as fans/community, he probably could have said that the Yankees had great support by many different communities and that he knows the Dodgers also have strong fan support.
    2007-11-05 11:26:45
    31.   KG16
    26 - depends on who is the heel and who is the face. In a shoot, I'd give it to Bowa, but then I'd give it to Bowa over most guys in professional baseball
    2007-11-05 11:27:19
    32.   Andrew Shimmin
    25- What do you think of Tongans?
    2007-11-05 11:28:21
    33.   wireroom
    26 Bowa without a doubt. I think Kent is really just a puppy dog when it comes down to it. Uncle Larry is one tough dude. I like what he brings to the table for the Dogers.
    2007-11-05 11:28:27
    34.   Bob Timmermann
    You can watch John Russell's press conference online too!
    2007-11-05 11:28:45
    35.   bhsportsguy
    28 So you tell a writer from the largest Spanish language paper in Los Angeles that his question has no merit?
    2007-11-05 11:29:35
    36.   regfairfield
    The steel chair is the great equalizer.
    2007-11-05 11:29:41
    37.   gvette
    21--Georgia had a business background as a Las Vegas showgirl, Jamie McCourt's MBA can't touch that educational experience
    2007-11-05 11:29:42
    38.   wireroom
    29 I care about hitting the cutoff man when runners advance to extra bases because of not hitting the cut off man. Hopefully that is sarcasm on your part.
    2007-11-05 11:30:55
    39.   Andrew Shimmin
    35- It's possible to reject the premise of a question without proclaiming that you're doing it. It's not as much fun, but it's possible.
    2007-11-05 11:31:08
    40.   regfairfield
    38 It was. Point was that every manager stresses the fundamentals in their press confrence, no one would say any different.
    2007-11-05 11:31:57
    41.   PalmdaleSteve1
    35

    Or Torre could have done his Chico Escuela imitation...OR Not

    "Baseball has been very, very good to me...

    2007-11-05 11:32:29
    42.   wireroom
    40 gotcha.
    2007-11-05 11:33:08
    43.   KG16
    So, if I understand it correctly, the Dodgers long standing tradition has been to retire only numbers of players/managers that have made the Hall of Fame. If/When Torre goes to the Hall, do the Dodgers retire #6 on his behalf? What if the veteran's committee decides to vote Garvey in?

    I don't mean to dwell on the number issue, but it's just one of those things that is picking at me.

    2007-11-05 11:33:28
    44.   Bob Timmermann
    35
    American politicians have been rejecting questions that they don't want to answer since 1789 when George Washington turned down a reporter from a New York City paper asking him if he thought that Alexander Hamilton was having an extramarital affair.
    2007-11-05 11:33:39
    45.   Jon Weisman
    30 - Sure.
    2007-11-05 11:33:46
    46.   Andrew Shimmin
    39- And, I should add that if the other choice is pronouncements about how passionate and fearless Latin people are, I know which way I'd go.
    2007-11-05 11:34:33
    47.   PalmdaleSteve1
    33

    Bowa also has a reputation as one of the sharpest "needles" in the game. His work will be cut out for him deflating both the Kids and Vet egos I think.

    2007-11-05 11:35:05
    48.   bhsportsguy
    At this point, I can't even remember the actual question.

    La Opinion is the largest Spanish language paper in the United States, daily circulation is over 121,000 and is in the top 100 newspapers in the country.

    2007-11-05 11:35:33
    49.   Xeifrank
    The Dodger-talk on 710AM after the press conference is pretty..., um, bad.
    vr, Xei
    2007-11-05 11:37:08
    50.   Andrew Shimmin
    Torre says Martin's 2007 workload is dangerous. That he needs to get him some help.
    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2007-11-05 11:37:24
    51.   KG16
    Torre is hinting that Russ won't be playing 150 games this year. He also seems to be high on Billingsly and Loney. But he hasn't mentioned Kemp.
    2007-11-05 11:37:46
    52.   uke
    28 - Didn't he do that (more or less)? It was almost a loaded question. At least he didn't pull an Al Campanis...
    2007-11-05 11:38:13
    53.   KG16
    "As far as I'm concerned, Alex can play for me," says Joe Torre.
    2007-11-05 11:38:43
    54.   Bluebleeder87
    your damned if you do & your damned if you don't some times though!
    2007-11-05 11:42:44
    55.   Bluebleeder87
    50

    He had great help in Lieberthal. Martin is just do darn good for his own good I guess.

    2007-11-05 11:47:55
    56.   Disabled List
    43 The Dodgers only retire numbers of their own Hall-of-Famers. Torre will be wearing a Yankees cap when he's inducted.

    I wouldn't mind seeing #6 and #34 retired. Those really are the only two jersey numbers the Dodgers have left that are worth raising to the rafters.

    2007-11-05 11:48:21
    57.   Andrew Shimmin
    48- "You came from a city, New York, with a big Latin community. Los Angeles also has a big Latin community. How do you expect the involvement of the community with the team."
    2007-11-05 11:48:39
    58.   Xeifrank
    Any other position that Martin can play besides catcher? Could he play 20 or so games at 3B to help offset the wear and tear on his knees from overuse at catcher? Of course if we sign someone like AROD, that's out of the question.
    vr, Xei
    2007-11-05 11:49:48
    59.   uke
    57 - "Strong. Next question..."
    2007-11-05 11:50:09
    60.   bhsportsguy
    57 He probably should have danced around it like the quesiton about the Chinese players except for the a few players look alike comment.
    2007-11-05 11:51:51
    61.   bhsportsguy
    57 I'm done with this issue.

    58 No, we don't need another Paul Loduca situation.

    2007-11-05 11:53:44
    62.   Xeifrank
    61. You mean a situation where your catcher gets some rest for his knees, but you still keep his bat in the lineup?
    vr, Xei
    2007-11-05 11:55:08
    63.   bhsportsguy
    Eric Neel has his comments on celebrity and Los Angeles.

    http://tinyurl.com/29wf96

    2007-11-05 11:56:28
    64.   StolenMonkey86
    62 - I think it's the situation of the catcher not actually getting any rest because he's already being used like a normal catcher without the rest. Honestly, if you want to do that with a catcher, it makes the most sense for an AL team with 2 good catchers. Problem is, of course, paying for 2 good catchers.
    2007-11-05 11:57:11
    65.   D4P
    63
    I saw that. I wanted to respond to his first line:

    You can make the argument that Joe Torre won't make the Dodgers a whole lot better in 2008

    Yes, I can.

    2007-11-05 11:57:25
    66.   StolenMonkey86
    I'll try not to keep being redundant by repeating myself again.
    2007-11-05 11:58:03
    67.   bhsportsguy
    62 I don't think its worth the additional risk of injury and we should have adequate players in those positions already.
    2007-11-05 11:58:32
    68.   Xeifrank
    64. I suggested 20 or so games only, so you wouldn't have to sign a catcher any better than the one we had last year as a backup. Just a thought, since it's so tough to get his bat out of the lineup.
    vr, Xei
    2007-11-05 11:59:58
    69.   silverwidow
    LA Times story as a huge typo: It calls Torre the "new general manager."
    2007-11-05 12:01:24
    70.   Bluebleeder87
    I have to admit I'm eager to see what Joe Torre brings to the dance, if anything he does have a soothing & smart way about 'em but we'll see how it translates in the win lose column. He also has good coaches behind him so we shall see.
    2007-11-05 12:02:02
    71.   bhsportsguy
    65 I think when you work for large public companies, how your leader is viewed is an important factor. Now, its not as important as how he or she do their jobs but their publically known image sets a tone that goes through the entire workplace.

    From a practical point of view, Joe Torre may not mean one additional win but having him as your leader will impact how the team is viewed. This may not mean much here but we are not the audience that the Dodgers are concerned about.

    2007-11-05 12:05:09
    72.   Bob Timmermann
    If Red Auerbach were still alive, he would say that a good coach or manager for a team isn't important. Unless the coach was named Red Auerbach.
    2007-11-05 12:05:30
    73.   Bluebleeder87
    69

    Some one better text message Dylan Hernandez, pronto!

    2007-11-05 12:10:14
    74.   JL25and3
    You guys should be thankful for having Joe Torre right now. It gives you at least a partial respite from All A-Rod, All The Time.
    2007-11-05 12:11:53
    75.   KG16
    69 - you obviously missed the second half of the press conference.

    56 - there is something to be said for retiring numbers of guys who were great players for a franchise but not quite Hall of Famers. But if you retire Garvey and Fernando's numbers then you have to look at the rest of that old in field.

    2007-11-05 12:13:32
    76.   StolenMonkey86
    68 - True, but if he starts 20 games at another position, he's still starting 130-140 at catcher, which is quite a few. Seems like the bigger issue is can we get a better backup.

    Lieberthal hit .234/.280/.260 last year and threw out 5 of 19 would-be base stealers. Rod Barajas might be a good option. Maybe Jason LaRue.

    2007-11-05 12:13:52
    77.   KG16
    By the way, does the hiring of Donny Baseball mean that Preston is now untouchable?
    2007-11-05 12:15:33
    78.   StolenMonkey86
    77 - only to Atlanta for John Schuerholz's son
    2007-11-05 12:16:38
    79.   Jon Weisman
    71 - Not directed at you, BH. But we saw this in '05.

    I think when you work for large public companies, how your leader is viewed is an important factor. Now, its not as important as how he or she do their jobs but their publically known image sets a tone that goes through the entire workplace.

    From a practical point of view, Ned Colletti may not mean one additional win but having him as your leader will impact how the team is viewed. This may not mean much here but we are not the audience that the Dodgers are concerned about.

    77 - Ask Jimmy Campanis.

    2007-11-05 12:20:47
    80.   blue22
    I know a certain Italian-American catcher with deep Dodger ties looking for work right now.

    Big Mike could catch 20-30 games, play a little first base, and basically take Olmedo Saenz's RH-thumper spot.

    2007-11-05 12:26:25
    81.   trainwreck
    I am debating whether I should watch the press conference.
    2007-11-05 12:28:18
    82.   bhsportsguy
    79 That's true, and you see all the time in other businesses.

    Its very comparable to the Phil Jackson second time around with the Lakers.

    2007-11-05 12:30:13
    83.   Jon Weisman
    80 - I'm a charter member of the Bring Back Piazza club.
    2007-11-05 12:33:24
    84.   D4P
    I'm a charter member of the Bring Back Piazza club

    Me too. I want him to finish his career as a Dodger.

    2007-11-05 12:34:51
    85.   KG16
    83 /84 - who wants to do the sit down with Brad Penny, explaining to him why he's going to have to give up his number, and no, he can't wear 34 instead?
    2007-11-05 12:35:24
    86.   Xeifrank
    Wonder if Piazzzzza could get his old number back? vr, Xei
    2007-11-05 12:37:03
    87.   blue22
    83/84 - Really, the timing may be right for this to actually happen. Saenz is gone, so Piazza would be a top guy off the bench. And he wouldn't be required to do much behind the plate except catch once a week. I'm skeptical that management would view him as a capable enough catcher to be the lone backup though.
    2007-11-05 12:37:23
    88.   D4P
    Uniform numbers are ridiculous. They serve no meaningful purpose. I don't see any harm in letting more than one player wear the same number. It's not like you can't tell players apart by other means.
    2007-11-05 12:38:23
    89.   gvette
    Why would Piazza take a Chad Moeller size salary and very limited playing time to come back?

    A better fit (and DH time) may be with the other Italian-American former catcher with Dodger ties at the 5 and 57 Freeway.

    2007-11-05 12:39:44
    90.   Bob Timmermann
    88
    So D4P's ideal baseball team has no manager and a team wearing a bunch of uniform numbers that are duplicates?

    Why even bother with uniforms? Why don't you just have the players show up with whatever clothes the player can scrounge up?

    And I think the bats and balls and gloves are overrated too.

    2007-11-05 12:39:47
    91.   uke
    83 - I'm all for that as well.
    2007-11-05 12:40:10
    92.   paranoidandroid
    A simple solution is for Martin to DH when we are in American League cities. That would save him some wear and tear.

    I also think that if we end up carrying three catchers with a guy like Piazza being the third, then we can sit Russ down late in blow out games like Grady FINALLY did in September. He needs INNINGS off, not just travel days. He simply should not be catching 150 games. PERIOD.

    2007-11-05 12:42:12
    93.   still bevens
    89 Yeah getting Piazza back is a pipe dream. Why would we pay for his services if we wont even shell out 1.4mil for Lieberthal?

    Piazza also seemed to take to Angels stadium. I think the only home runs he hit all year were against the Angels at home.

    2007-11-05 12:44:08
    94.   blue22
    89 - I don't understand Mike's recent salary history:

    2004 New York Mets $16,071,429
    2005 New York Mets $16,071,429
    2006 San Diego Padres $1,250,000
    2007 Oakland Athletics $8,500,000

    How did he only make $1.25M with SD, and then get $8.5M from Oakland (of all places)?

    Saenz made a million bucks per year the last couple of seasons. And Lieberthal made over a million bucks for 77 at bats last year. If Piazza "combines" those two roles, I think you could justifiably throw a couple million at him.

    2007-11-05 12:44:10
    95.   D4P
    90
    I can tolerate bats and balls and gloves.

    Uniforms are OK, but I think players should be required to have their batting helmets cleaned off. That grime some of them let accumulate is distasteful. I know they like to look "gritty" and such, but come on. Grow up.

    2007-11-05 12:45:46
    96.   ToyCannon
    95
    Why should they grow up? They are getting paid to play the same game they played since they were 5.
    2007-11-05 12:47:02
    97.   trainwreck
    It is becoming more and more evident that D4P is an anarchist.
    2007-11-05 12:47:08
    98.   Ken Noe
    According to the Toronto Sun, the Jays may make a run at Liberthal, although the article is poorly enough written that it's hard to say if it's opinion or reporting. Geez, I'd love to see Piazza back.
    2007-11-05 12:47:11
    99.   ToyCannon
    I'm watching the conference. Ned really does look out of place.
    2007-11-05 12:47:37
    100.   StolenMonkey86
    89 - I think we could pay Piazza a bit more than that. Lieberthal didn't do that well last year.
    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2007-11-05 12:52:04
    101.   Fallout
    13 So what? Who cares? Is this important? Disagree that he didn't give a reply that you would have rather heard? Just trivial nit-picking.
    2007-11-05 12:52:08
    102.   bhsportsguy
    Mike Piazza caught zero games last year but he had 300+ PA as a DH, that is why he is more valuable in the AL.

    Mike is 39 years old, I only saw one catcher who caught more than one game in 2007 who is older, that is Sandy Alomar, Jr. and he caught just a handful of games.

    2007-11-05 12:53:35
    103.   Ken Noe
    99 He brought Grady out of exile and thus had leverage over him. Torre in contrast is clearly the alpha male now. If the Dodgers don't make the playoffs, McCourt won't blame Joe. What worries me is that with his job on the line, Ned will need to win now. We know what kind of deals he makes when he panics.
    2007-11-05 13:00:13
    104.   Jon Weisman
    101 - How important did I make it seem?
    2007-11-05 13:01:16
    105.   Bluebleeder87
    that is Sandy Alomar, Jr. and he caught just a handful of games.

    I saw him throw a runner out last year! I also saw him in the Dodger Stadium elevator & he really is a happy go lucky guy, really nice guy.

    2007-11-05 13:02:37
    106.   Xeifrank
    per Rototimes, Erik Bedard of the Orioles may be available. vr, Xei
    2007-11-05 13:04:35
    107.   Marty
    Somebody who sports a bad rug, wears a white tie. How surprising.
    2007-11-05 13:05:24
    108.   uke
    106 - How and why?

    What do people think about Mazzone vs. Honeycutt? Is Mazzone even an option?

    2007-11-05 13:05:34
    109.   paranoidandroid
    102 That is why I'd advocate for Piazza as the Saenz replacement with the ability to be an emergency catcher. I'd think the way to fit Piazza in would be only if we carry three catchers. He is not a back-up catcher anymore, but he'd give us the liberty of sitting Russ down late in games and putting in our back-up knowing that Mike can put on the gear if there is an injury.
    2007-11-05 13:06:51
    110.   LogikReader
    Bedard has a k/bb ratio of 3.8

    I have no clue how much he'll ask for, but I'm sure he's worth more than Lohse!

    2007-11-05 13:07:04
    111.   KG16
    108 - i was under the impression that Honeycutt was coming back
    2007-11-05 13:07:19
    112.   Bluebleeder87
    103

    I really feel if NedCo does something panicky like trade blue chippers McCourt will fire him on the spot, the path of going with the youth is set in stone with McCourt as the owner, that's the way I view it anyways/is the impression that i'm getting from him.

    2007-11-05 13:07:37
    113.   scareduck
    79 From a practical point of view, Ned Colletti may not mean one additional win but having him as your leader will impact how the team is viewed. This may not mean much here but we are not the audience that the Dodgers are concerned about.

    Which is how Ned Colletti got to be the Dodgers' GM. The overall thought process, such as it is, that propels the Dodgers toward neurotic mediocrity remains steadfastly intact.

    2007-11-05 13:07:53
    114.   ToyCannon
    The White Tie stuff is nedpicking. He can dress like the TBS sideline reporter for all I care if he makes the right moves.
    2007-11-05 13:09:05
    115.   Marty
    I missed the earlier thread, but it's getting so you can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting a Pinkberry. I suspect they will overextend themselves just as Krispy Kreme did a couple years ago.
    2007-11-05 13:09:45
    116.   Xeifrank
    108. The article says they are considering extending him and at the same time are open to listening to offers for him. Not much more than that. Probably a $$$ thing.
    vr, Xei
    2007-11-05 13:10:42
    117.   KG16
    114 - "nedpicking", heh. Someone relatively important once said that you can judge a man by the clothes he wears... it is why so many of us have a negative few of the 1970s.
    2007-11-05 13:11:47
    118.   wronghanded
    I like Bedard a lot, I also think Miggy could help our squad but wouldn't Baltimore ask for the world for both? Are they worth say Kershaw/LaRoche/Ethier for example?
    2007-11-05 13:11:48
    119.   Marty
    I retain my right to render sartorial judgment.
    2007-11-05 13:13:21
    120.   Fallout
    I don't think it should have been brought up in that manner.(if brought up at all) It had a negative tone making it sound somewhat important.
    2007-11-05 13:13:25
    121.   uke
    111 - Torre today only commented on Donny baseball and Boa.
    2007-11-05 13:15:27
    122.   KG16
    MLB Trade Rumors their prediction of where the top 50 free agents will go. They think Bonds ends up in San Diego, some guy named Andruw Jones will be playing center for the Dodgers, and Torii Hunter will be playing in Texas.

    For what it's worth.

    2007-11-05 13:16:16
    123.   KG16
    121 - right, but there was a report earlier on Honeycutt sticking around a couple days ago, wasn't there?
    2007-11-05 13:19:54
    124.   uke
    123 - I heard that as well but didn't give it much credence.
    2007-11-05 13:20:37
    125.   Eric Stephen
    94 In 2006, Piazza made a total of $2.75m:

    -$1.25m base salary
    -$250k for each of 85, 95 & 105 games started
    -$750k buyout of his 2007 $8m mutual option

    The salary is low compared to what he got from Oakland last season, but that can be chalked up to a "prove it" type of contract. His last two seasons in NY, Piazza hit .266/.366/.444 and .251/.326/.452, respectively. His numbers and durability were on the decline, so the market for his services wasn't as bullish as he might have liked.

    He performed well in SD in 2006 (.283/.342/.501), which increased his asking price accordingly for 2007.

    Put me in the down for a helping of Piazza on the Dodgers menu in 2008, at a reasonable cost (<$2m base) of course.

    2007-11-05 13:22:34
    126.   Andrew Shimmin
    114- It's a pattern. At his introduction, he was rocking the fancy t-shirt no tie, look. He'd be a fashion icon if he were better looking.

    If Torre were catching flack over the thing about players looking alike, that would be pernicious, since he clearly wasn't saying that Chinese players look alike, just that every year there were players in spring training whom it took him a little longer to be able to tell apart. It wasn't specific to the question, it was a minor digression in a completely different train of thought: how he'll come to know the players. I'm sure teachers, or anybody else who meets a big group of new people at a time will find that some of them are hard to distinguish from each other.

    2007-11-05 13:22:56
    127.   Jon Weisman
    120 - Well, I considered it slightly more important than Vin's Chicken Catcher Torre story, but less important than not hearing T.J. Simers' voice at the press conference. So that's how important I thought it was.

    If the tone was slightly negative, however, that was intended. In my opinion, it was noteworthy as a poor response, and I don't feel bad for mentioning it.

    The difference between what Torre did today and what Campanis did - and it's a hugely significant difference, don't get me wrong - is that Torre's generalization was complimentary. But it was no less of a generalization, and I think that's a dangerous way to tread in today's media.

    You're welcome to think I'm the problem rather than the guy monitoring the problem if you like, but I don't feel anything I did was inappropriate.

    2007-11-05 13:24:13
    128.   Bluebleeder87
    122

    I wouldn't mind if A. Jones roamed CF'd for us if anything it takes Pierre out of centerfield & puts a MORE than serviceable fielder there. But I really hope NedCo goes to his "go to contract" & signs Alex Rodriguez.

    2007-11-05 13:26:23
    129.   Marty
    And if you think the Pinkberry infestation is bad, wait till you see your first Beard Papa.
    2007-11-05 13:26:37
    130.   Eric Stephen
    If Larry Bowa comes aboard as the Dodger 3rd base coach, can we see the following headline?

    "Donnelly: Bowa Constricted"

    2007-11-05 13:30:31
    131.   trainwreck
    Keith Law just totally buried Jeff Kent. He said he was the main problem and he has been a problem everywhere he went. He also said Kent had no place saying the young guys were out for statistics, when he has no business being a second baseman and just plays there so he puts up big numbers for the position. He then said that Kent and Gonzo only spoke out, because they were worried about their playing time, not about winning.
    2007-11-05 13:31:57
    132.   Chris H
    115 The Chairman of Starbucks just invested in Pinkberry through his venture capital fund. It won't be long before there is a Starbucks and a Pinkberry on every corner.
    2007-11-05 13:32:31
    133.   Xeifrank
    131. Where is this article located? I don't see how Kent would be worried about his playing time. It's true, he is a below average fielder at 2B, but his hold on the second base job is secure through the rest of his contract imo. Sounds more like a rant than an article from that blurb.
    vr, Xei
    2007-11-05 13:32:47
    134.   trainwreck
    What is Pinkberry?
    2007-11-05 13:33:11
    135.   trainwreck
    133
    He said it on TV.
    2007-11-05 13:33:25
    136.   Jon Weisman
    131 - I would agree with the gist of this, but what position would Keith Law put Kent at, though?
    2007-11-05 13:34:33
    137.   Fallout
    131 trainwreck
    Although I'm sure that both Kent and Gonzo spoke out, I'm not too sure that Kent was worried about playing time.
    2007-11-05 13:35:32
    138.   D4P
    Unless caring about your own statistics hurts the team (and how would it), I don't see why it's a problem.

    As long as players are paid based on their statistics, every player will care about their own statistics. Messrs. "Most HRs for a Second Baseman" and "3000-hit Guy" are no exceptions.

    2007-11-05 13:35:44
    139.   Jon Weisman
    135 - Someday, we'll be able to link to a TV segment!

    Connectivity, people!

    2007-11-05 13:36:16
    140.   Frip
    13 Jon: "I'm not trying to roast the guy, but I disagree. He chose complimentary adjectives, which won't get him in trouble, but he was still generalizing."

    Race questions directed at sports coaches deserve nothing less than generalized answers. Torre's not a sociologist. This country...this CITY, will try and ruin a guy for the slightest deviation from the "correct" answer. Who needs it!

    That's all Torre would need right now, some racial controversy because he slipped up said the "wrong" thing.

    2007-11-05 13:36:50
    141.   Fallout
    I see that the Kent "playing time" quote was questioned quickly.
    2007-11-05 13:37:37
    142.   Marty
    Pinkberry is a Japanese frozen yogurt operation. Beard Papa (for those dying to know) is a Japanese cream puff operation.
    2007-11-05 13:38:18
    143.   trainwreck
    He said Kent was worried about Abreu at second and Loney at first taking time away from him.
    2007-11-05 13:38:59
    144.   Bluebleeder87
    134

    it's like a blackberry but for girls I think.

    2007-11-05 13:39:31
    145.   trainwreck
    I know we got a Beard Papa in SF, but I am not eating that stuff.
    2007-11-05 13:40:39
    146.   chazmac138
    I haven't been around or posted on this site in quite some time but I figured with today's events I would see what people had to say on a site that at one time I really enjoyed reading.

    Then I started reading this thread and it reminded me exactly why I don't visit/post here anymore. People arguing about Ned's choice of wardrobe, critical grammatical analysis on everything Torre said and how to perceive it, I mean come on! And the thing that bothers me most is all of the smart aleck comments from the same few offenders (you know who you are). Not funny.

    It's a shame that the people here who really want to talk Dodgers have to contend with a handful of people that do their best to taint it for everyone else all for the sake of what they perceive as funny.

    I'm sorry to be a downer on what is a great day for the Dodgers and our town but I think that I can not be the only one who feels this way and felt like I needed to say something.

    2007-11-05 13:41:24
    147.   dsfan
    The Fielding Bible ranked Andruw as the No. 1 CF in 2007. Nice to know that he is still a good defender. I tend to think he'll rebound offensively.
    Dodgers should make him a strong two-year offer ($33 million) with a mutual option somewhat like the player/club option that Boras got for Maddux. I doubt that gets it done, but it's worth a shot. Farm system has nothing coming at CF.
    2007-11-05 13:41:38
    148.   Bluebleeder87
    142

    Well there goes my theory. ;o)

    2007-11-05 13:45:52
    149.   gibsonhobbs88
    111, 123 - Is Honeycutt worth keeping as a pitching coach? I don't have the stats on hand to say whether he is effective or not, just a feeling that he should not be the pitching coach.

    118 - No. I wouldn't make that deal.

    The 2008 Dodgers story will not rest on Torre's in game decisions as much as Ned's off season personnel decisions.

    23- Kemp is not the only one with bad baserunning decisions, his can be attributed partly by over aggressive and youthful inexperience. What about Kent and Sweeney, who also have made bonehead baserunning plays in the past year plus, what is their excuse? Kemp can be taught and he has a huge upside. I'm tired of Kemp taking the hit for the Dodger September fall. Starting pitching except for Bills and Penny collapsed. Yeah, that includes you Lowe!! LEAVE THE KIDS BE!!!
    THEY WILL LEARN AND GET BETTER!!

    2007-11-05 13:46:05
    150.   StolenMonkey86
    118 - Makes sense for Baltimore, but I figure that they'd want to shed salary in Miggy's case. I'd rather see the O's get Andruw Jones than us, though, so I wouldn't favor Miggy for Ethier. If we offer to take some of their overpaid relievers too, maybe we could do a trade like Miggy and Baez for Beimel and Kent?\

    I'd love to see Angelos get involved and decide he wants Juan Pierre because he has the longest consecutive games streak going.

    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2007-11-05 13:47:53
    151.   dsfan
    Seems to me an opinion has been wrongly cemented into fact in many media reports -- that the rift between veterans and kids cost the Dodgers a playoff berth. Seems to me, the pitching injuries and dearth of power hitting should fall into the "cause" category and the late-season grousing was more in the "effect" category.
    2007-11-05 13:47:55
    152.   Bluebleeder87
    147

    Nice right up DsFan, I really feel that's the only affordable path the Dodgers can go but maybe the McCourts will surprise us, you never now.

    2007-11-05 13:49:25
    153.   dsfan
    I pretty much agree with Law's comments about Kent. Tasty though Kent's OPS is, especially out of the 2B spot, the Dodgers should look into dealing him to the AL if they can get a good arm for him. At this stage, Kent's best value is as DH and part-time 2B/1B. Wonder if the Angels would want him.
    2007-11-05 13:49:35
    154.   StolenMonkey86
    It's true, he is a below average fielder at 2B

    http://tinyurl.com/yrjz7y

    Clearly, Xeifrank, you have a lot of respect for rule 6.

    2007-11-05 13:54:02
    155.   StolenMonkey86
    153 - The Reds picked up Hatteberg's option. If Dusty has enough say (and with Krivsky he might), maybe we could find a way for them to take a guy Baker described as a potential gold glove first baseman and save Homer Bailey from becoming Mark Prior 2.0. Is there a 3 team deal where we could work this out, and let someone else get Hatteberg, the base-clogging picking machine?
    2007-11-05 13:54:09
    156.   Jon Weisman
    140 - I'm not trying to start something by noticing what I noticed (and I wasn't the only one to notice it). But I don't think you need to be a sociologist to know that saying that Latin people are all passionate or Latin players are all fearless is, on its face, a rather dumb supposition.

    Was it harmless? Excusable? Not really what he meant? Sure, why not. But I'm entitled to expect or wish for better, as well as to recognize that others will respect or wish for better, even if many people could not care less.

    I'm sorry if I think even Old School baseball folk should be past suggesting all people of an ethnic or cultural group are X, or that I wonder if other people feel the same way as me. But that's how I feel.

    2007-11-05 13:55:10
    157.   JJ42
    142 - Pinkberry was started by a Korean woman in LA, and is based off Red Mango, a similar dessert place based in Korea.
    2007-11-05 13:55:37
    158.   delias man
    131 - he has also been saying it in ESPN chats for over a year.
    2007-11-05 13:56:09
    159.   ToyCannon
    146
    Sure DT bugs me at times but each of the posters goes through emotional changes. At times I can be D4P cynical or I can be even minded Bhsportsguy. At the end of the day, you won't find a more intelligent discussion of the Dodgers, even if you have to blow by many posts. You can't blow off the whole experience because you don't like what some posters have to say. Well you can, but your just short changing yourself.
    2007-11-05 13:56:42
    160.   gibsonhobbs88
    150 - I don't see where Miggy fits in to our team right now plus his best days are probably behind him. If we somehow sign Andruw, we could try and sell Angelos on Juan Pierre's sterling attributes(with paying them 1/3 of the remaining contract to sweeten the deal) and accept some expiring reliever's contract in return.
    2007-11-05 14:00:24
    161.   Bob Timmermann
    146

    I will hereby resolve to only make trenchant comments that are always on point and will refrain from the use of humor.

    2007-11-05 14:04:36
    162.   ToyCannon
    "trenchant"
    2007-11-05 14:06:19
    163.   Bob Timmermann
    162
    trenchant, adj.

    searching: having keenness and forcefulness and penetration in thought, expression, or intellect

    2007-11-05 14:07:53
    164.   Penarol1916
    So some guys at Big Blue Wrecking Crew start their own blog because they find Dodgerthoughts too humorless and serious, while this chazmac fellow finds Dodgerthoughts too smart alecky and focused on humor. I guess sometimes you just can't win. Either that or you can take the Howard Kurtz route, "I know I'm doing my job when conservatives are accusing me of being too liberal, and liberals are accusing me of being too conservative."
    2007-11-05 14:08:07
    165.   Izzy
    159. Ya okay Toy. I appreciate that you said that. And the way you said it.
    2007-11-05 14:08:33
    166.   Disabled List
    There's a part of me that agrees with 146 . Why all this parsing of Torre's comment? It was lame and half-thought-out, but it hardly deserves as much discussion as it's been getting here.

    More pertinent would be a discussion of Jon Heyman's latest piece at SI.com. He thinks signing Torre will in no way help the Dodgers land A-Rod, and may actually hurt them. He thinks Torre made A-Rod his whipping boy during the playoffs in 2006 (when he dropped Alex to 8th in the lineup) and earlier this season, when he threw Alex under the bus during that "shout-during-the-popup" play in Toronto.

    Interesting read.

    2007-11-05 14:08:40
    167.   StolenMonkey86
    160 - now that I think about it, I don't see it either. I'd rather get Bedard, but I wouldn't want to give up more than Ethier, Beimel and Stults for him.
    2007-11-05 14:08:49
    168.   bhsportsguy
    159 Thanks.

    160 Wow, he's like 23 and he's done.

    2007-11-05 14:11:02
    169.   StolenMonkey86
    168 - no, Miggy's 31.
    2007-11-05 14:11:33
    170.   Fallout
    But I don't think you need to be a sociologist to know that saying that Latin people are all passionate or Latin players are all fearless is, on its face, a rather dumb supposition.

    I read this to my Latino wife who said that she was offended that you did not accept that as truth.

    2007-11-05 14:12:40
    171.   bhsportsguy
    I am surprised that no one (outside of TJ Simers) is making a big deal out of the fact that apparently the Dodgers made contact with Torre days before Grady "resigned."

    Also, Jamie McCourt said on KSPN after the press conference that Grady is great person and he would be welcome back to the Dodgers in any capacity (outside of manager).

    But at least they are doing a better job at remaining cordial with their former employees.

    (Oh, and yes, this is the same guy who said last week that its possible that Grady's deal went down the way they said it did, so go ahead and mock me now.)

    2007-11-05 14:13:46
    172.   bhsportsguy
    169 Sorry, wrong Miggy, I thought you were talking about the stocky 3B in Miami.
    2007-11-05 14:14:31
    173.   Matt Conroy
    156 - I think you're reading way too much into it. He cited Cano and Cabrera as two specific examples of players he worked with who loved to play the game. And I don't think anyone would argue that the Latino community (both in New York and LA) is generally very passionate about baseball. What's wrong with that? Do I need to re-set my PC radar to ultra-sensitive?

    This criticism seems nitpicky in the extreme.

    2007-11-05 14:15:41
    174.   ToyCannon
    168
    He's talking about the old Miggy from the Orioles.

    167
    The speculation is that Bedard would fetch a higher price then Santana given his age and cost. You couldn't possibly be serious about offering an average corner outfielder and two waiver wire guys could you? Bedard was just about the best pitcher in baseball last year and is only 28.

    2007-11-05 14:17:31
    175.   ToyCannon
    170
    Can we let this go before I go home and ask my Mexican wife what she thought of it?
    2007-11-05 14:19:40
    176.   Andrew Shimmin
    175- Ask her what she thinks of Colletti's tie, too. That's the one I want vindication on.
    2007-11-05 14:21:18
    177.   LAT
    Long as Pinkberry talk continues I'll post this here.

    As for PinkBerry, ours is a house divided. Daughter loves Pinkberry, wife likes Red Mango and I am partial to the Big Chill. One would think that as the head of my house, the guy who is paying and the one who rarly makes a fuss we get to go to the Big Chill once in a while but Nooooooooo. Welcome to fatherhood.

    2007-11-05 14:21:45
    178.   Jon Weisman
    173 - Okay, I ask you, who is nitpicking now? I wrote two sentences about the whole dang thing, calling Torre's words simplistic (a devastating word choice, I know), and been on the defensive for three hours now from about three or four people since. The comments on my comment far exceed what I said about Torre's words. I've tried to back up my case; I've extended an olive branch; I've repeatedly said it wasn't that big a deal, but nothing I say can seem to appease the few of you. So who is nitpicking now?
    2007-11-05 14:22:15
    179.   StolenMonkey86
    168, 174 - that's right, the "swing at everything" Miggy.
    2007-11-05 14:22:26
    180.   jasonungar07
    That post 146 reminds me of the movie STRIPES.
    2007-11-05 14:26:18
    181.   ToyCannon
    177
    Or you could let the ladies learn about disapointment and take them to the Big Chill.

    My advice could also be why I'm fatherless and always on the edge of being single.

    2007-11-05 14:26:21
    182.   Howard Fox
    146

    there's a problem with wearing a white tie? aren't they heading out to Florida for the meeting? that's what they wear there...oh and white shoes too...

    and how about the way Torre wears his hat so high on his head...

    and isn't Pierre's uniform too baggy?

    2007-11-05 14:27:37
    183.   Matt Conroy
    178 - Yikes. Over and out. Forget it. I'll go back into lurk mode.
    2007-11-05 14:28:39
    184.   Frip
    156 Jon: "But I'm entitled to expect or wish for better"

    You're also entitled to see the broader dilemma at play.

    You tend to defend yourself, as much as your opinions. You're obviously a good person. No need to clog your arguments with so many "I"s. You're not on trial.

    146 Chaz: "Then I started reading this thread and it reminded me exactly why I don't visit/post here anymore"

    It's a varied forum with a range personalitie and opinions...kinda like life. Most people can handle it, and even find humor in the otherwise annoying.

    The real reason you, and others inclined to "Why I Don't Come Here Anymore" type statements, don't come here anymore, has more to do with your narrow range of appreciation, and simple touchiness.

    My friendly advice: Join a club with completely like-minded members. It won't be much fun, but you'll get to nod a lot.

    2007-11-05 14:28:45
    185.   ToyCannon
    177
    Okay to many posts but until today I had never heard of Pinkberry, Red Mando, or Big Chill. I tend to favor Baskins, and the Creamery.
    2007-11-05 14:31:00
    186.   Bumsrap
    Is stereotyping ever fair? Has anybody ever statistically proven Latin players are fearless?

    Al Campanis learned to hard way not to stereotype.

    2007-11-05 14:31:25
    187.   Howard Fox
    184 hey frip....lighten up...

    not everyone is as enlightened and complex as you...keep an open mind....

    2007-11-05 14:31:41
    188.   ToyCannon
    If only Greg Brock could show up and instill some humor now that Bob has abdicated his role.
    2007-11-05 14:31:43
    189.   Dodgers49
    123 121 - right, but there was a report earlier on Honeycutt sticking around a couple days ago, wasn't there?

    Yes, there was such a report. But Honeycutt shot it down.

    >> There have been reports that the club has decided pitching coach Rick Honeycutt and first-base coach Mariano Duncan would be retained, but Honeycutt said that was news to him.

    "I haven't talked to Ned or Joe," said Honeycutt. "I like the rumor, but it's not confirmed by anybody. Hopefully, like they say on ESPN, the reality will catch up with the rumor." <<

    http://tinyurl.com/39ng3j

    2007-11-05 14:33:34
    190.   Jon Weisman
    183 - I'm not trying to banish you. I'm just wondering what I can do to satisfy you without having to deny what I feel.

    In other words, I expect people to disagree with me. I don't expect to be told that voicing my opinion on this matter is inappropriate, which is the clear implication of calling my comment nitpicky. It was the second paragraph of 173 that finally broke my cool, not the first.

    2007-11-05 14:33:38
    191.   Bob Timmermann
    188
    My forbidden topics:
    1) the big school in Westwood
    2) the largest city in Missouri
    3) humor
    4) Joakim Noah
    2007-11-05 14:34:03
    192.   Andrew Shimmin
    Is it Festivus already? I thought I still had a time to prepare for the airing of the grievances.
    2007-11-05 14:34:20
    193.   regfairfield
    188 I know I'm incapable of it.
    2007-11-05 14:35:15
    194.   ToyCannon
    Now your just being sensitive. You hate Joakim Noah, I like making fun of your hate of Joakim Noah.
    2007-11-05 14:35:16
    195.   trainwreck
    Is there a Latin frozen yogurt chain? It would really tie things together.
    2007-11-05 14:35:51
    196.   trainwreck
    195
    Oh, and all their employees happen to wear white ties.
    2007-11-05 14:36:14
    197.   Bob Timmermann
    194
    I'm not sensitive. I'm hyper-sensitive!
    2007-11-05 14:36:21
    198.   bhsportsguy
    177 Is that the one located on Westwood and Olympic?

    I like the place in Pasadena on Colorado and DeLacy, have not had Pinkberry yet.

    2007-11-05 14:38:19
    199.   regfairfield
    Pinkberry is amazing once you get over the fact that you're paying five dollars for frogurt.
    2007-11-05 14:38:54
    200.   Frip
    187 "Hey Frip, lighten up".

    I've always been amazed at just how difficult it is to come up with a come-back to "lighten-up". I don't think one exists. It's the ultimate stun-gun line.

    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2007-11-05 14:39:15
    201.   bhsportsguy
    192 But what about the Feats of Strength?
    2007-11-05 14:41:42
    202.   Daniel Zappala
    I think there are some people who are intimidated by all the proven veteran commenters (PVCs) that hang out here. We need someone to kick around the trash can.
    2007-11-05 14:41:46
    203.   LAT
    181. Ahh to pay the highest price of all. In truth it usally just means two stops instead of one. The family stays in the car eating Pinkberry while I wait in a ridiclous line for Big Chill.

    Also I think there is only one Big Chill, corner of Westwood and Olympic so that maybe why you haven't heard of it. Pink Berry is a knock off of Red Mango only Red Mango got ao late start in the US. It will soon be Starbucks v. Coffee Bean all over again.

    If we are taking ice cream toss the yogurt and bring on the banana Coldstone with chocolate chips.

    2007-11-05 14:42:07
    204.   Andrew Shimmin
    200- There's always, "Shut up, Becky." But you have to be sure that the other party is (or, at least, was) a Simpsons fan.
    2007-11-05 14:42:13
    205.   gibsonhobbs88
    168 - LOL on thinking I was talking about Miggy Cabrera from the Marlins. That was funny. Like I would think someone 23 would be over the hill, I'm still chuckling thinking about it as I write.
    174 - You are so correct! Bedard would command a front line starter, a good bat and a "MLB ready at AAA hot prospect" at the least.
    2007-11-05 14:46:57
    206.   Penarol1916
    191. Do you have something against Rolla, MO?
    2007-11-05 14:47:06
    207.   Sam DC
    When my mom finally packed up and sold the old house after 40 years, I'm convinced it was to go from being 1 mile away from Big Chill to two blocks.

    And she's at that age where she likes the line.

    2007-11-05 14:47:23
    208.   LogikReader
    Bedard would command a front line starter

    That defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

    2007-11-05 14:49:13
    209.   trainwreck
    Steve Phillips will be on Sportscenter to give the three things the Dodgers must do now.

    I can't wait to be enlightened.

    2007-11-05 14:49:38
    210.   underdog
    150- monkey, I think you accidentally typed 'baez' when you meant something else. thankyou, comeagain. :)

    btw, re: bowa - yankee fans I know think he was a darned good 3rd base coach. he's gonna be better than the windmill...

    2007-11-05 14:50:18
    211.   Andrew Shimmin
    Jon's post got a link from David Pinto. There are going to be some confused Baseball Musers, if they venture into the comments.
    2007-11-05 14:50:35
    212.   BlueCrew Bruin
    200 At that point, you forget about the verbal comeback and just go after the eyes. The eyes are the groin of the head.
    2007-11-05 14:51:24
    213.   chazmac138
    159
    Point taken.

    161
    Nice vocab skills!

    164
    It's not that black and white of an issue. I really enjoy what some people here have to say and I respect their opinions.

    182
    You are part of the problem to which I eluded to in the initial post. Not funny at all, yet you think you are.

    184
    The real reason you, and others inclined to "Why I Don't Come Here Anymore" type statements, don't come here anymore, has more to do with your narrow range of appreciation, and simple touchiness.

    Unless you are Robert Fripp the legendary guitarist, I place zero credence in anything you have to say or you misguided opinions of me. The sheer fact that you think you can TELL ME what I am and or what I think is downright comical.

    2007-11-05 14:51:25
    214.   Sam DC
    Maybe we can LAT to tell his dirty tree joke again to spice things up.

    (In fairness, that joke cracked me up.)

    2007-11-05 14:54:02
    215.   Sam DC
    213 Wow, that's some obnoxious stuff you got in there. Please, please, tone it down and stop taking shots at other commenters.

    If you want to talk about baseball, talk about baseball.

    2007-11-05 14:54:27
    216.   screwballin
    Can I log a vote for keeping the humor in DT? I come here for sharp-witted, intelligent Dodger opinions. If either of those adjectives were to no longer apply, I'd have to find my daily chuckles elsewhere.

    Don't cut us off, Bob. I'm begging you.

    2007-11-05 14:54:56
    217.   Penarol1916
    213. So the one serious guy is guy you find funny. It's like the opposite of that episode of the The Simpsons when Flanders said that the clown was the only one that didn't make him laugh.
    2007-11-05 14:55:52
    218.   Marty
    What this place needs is movie talk!

    Jon, what did you think of No Country for Old Men?

    2007-11-05 14:56:31
    219.   kinbote
    214 i told that joke three times at work on friday. it's my new favorite (& i'm italian!) . . .
    2007-11-05 14:56:54
    220.   ToyCannon
    What we learned today
    1. Guys who wear white ties are targets for the dress code police
    2. Joe Torre thinks all Latino's are passionate and fearless
    3. LAT is whipped
    4. Jon is sensitive but Bob is hyper-sensitive
    5. Pinkberry is not a girlie blackberry(thank you bluebleeder for that one)
    6. Regfairfield believe he has no sense of humor
    7. Toy Cannon has to much time on his hands and posts way to much to be a productive member of society.
    8. Everything goes to .... in a handbasket when Greg Brock does not respond to the Batman signal from Bhsportsguy's wrist radio
    9. Chicken Catch a Torre was not one of Vinny's finest moments
    10. Old Miggy is now such a has been that he needs to lose the Miggy moniker and rightfully hand it over to Young Miggy so we don't have anymore awkward trade discussions.
    11. Just because Jon doesn't like your comments doesn't mean you become a lurker. You had an opinion, he didn't agree, no problema. If we all become as hyper-sensitive as Bob I'll end up talking to myself and my medication is not up to the task.
    2007-11-05 14:57:12
    221.   trainwreck
    217
    "I don't even know who you are, but I am sure you're a jerk."
    2007-11-05 14:57:51
    222.   bhsportsguy
    209 Is he going to run a fake press conference, oops, I guess a federal agency already beat him to it this year.
    2007-11-05 14:58:42
    223.   Sam DC
    Is this Robert Redford spy movie coming out supposed to be good?
    2007-11-05 14:58:58
    224.   Penarol1916
    220. I have to strenuously disagree with point #9. that is a very nice little pun. I could definately see it being hilarious with a classic, dry, Vin delivery.
    2007-11-05 14:59:38
    225.   Jacob Burch
    21 flavors (the one on colorado in pasadena) still reigns supreme in my mind. cheaper too, if i remember right.

    i'm all for andruw only if it comes at the prince pierre--not ethier or kemp. but i'm more and more convinced that that's a pipe dream.

    2007-11-05 14:59:51
    226.   Marty
    After seeing a commercial for it, I really want to see Walk Hard.
    2007-11-05 15:00:05
    227.   chazmac138
    215
    I am not trying to be obnoxious or start any kind of 'war' with anyone.
    How can my comments be deemed any more obnoxious than those to which I responded?

    I simply would like to read and discuss the Dodgers here at this site again. Judging by comments like 215 it is clear to me that I am and will continue to be misinterpreted.

    With that, and in the interest of peace and harmony on this board, I will comment no more about anything but baseball, if I choose to comment at all.

    Go Dodgers.

    2007-11-05 15:00:21
    228.   Penarol1916
    223. Slate said it was supposed to be awful, so according to Bob, it should be great. Also, I think most people are referring to it as the Tom Cruise spy movie.
    2007-11-05 15:02:44
    229.   ToyCannon
    224
    On the video it seemed to fall flat. On the whole I found the whole conference awkward and devoid of energy. If only Jamie had pulled a Sharon Stone.
    2007-11-05 15:03:53
    230.   bhsportsguy
    229 I'd hear your wife's comment on that comment.
    2007-11-05 15:04:45
    231.   Jon Weisman
    213/228 – I saw five movies last week and am approaching 40 for the year. I have a big Screen Jam post in mind, if only the Dodgers would settle down.

    "No Country" is one of several movies that is very good but falls short of its aspirations to be great, in my mind. "Lions for Lambs," the Redford movie (a political movie, not a spy movie), has huge flaws that transcend its politics.

    2007-11-05 15:05:02
    232.   Eric Stephen
    209 ,222 What the world needs is more Phillips v. Phillips debates.
    2007-11-05 15:05:08
    233.   bhsportsguy
    220 On number ocho, the signal light is on.
    2007-11-05 15:05:25
    234.   Sam DC
    227 Not to drag this on, and only because I think we're all getting close to understanding each other and I know Kumbayah is not far behind, I'll just say that it was this comment that I thought was unduly harsh given the comment you were responding to -- "Not funny at all, yet you think you are." I agree that comment 184 was somewhat harsh as well, though again I don't think it works to respond as you did.

    Anyhow, moving on, welcome chazmac.

    Go Dodgers.

    2007-11-05 15:05:47
    235.   Andrew Shimmin
    TBLA should start an "Ask ToyCannon's Wife," feature.
    2007-11-05 15:06:56
    236.   Bob Timmermann
    I'm just more surprised to find out that Rolla has surpassed St. Louis in population.
    2007-11-05 15:07:48
    237.   Sam DC
    231 Thx. I have a pretty narrow sweet spot for movies these days and I do keep missing it.
    2007-11-05 15:08:49
    238.   Bob Timmermann
    Hey, St. Louis is bigger than Rolla by 330,000 people!
    2007-11-05 15:09:02
    239.   bhsportsguy
    235 Don't mention Kobe Bryant and I think she will answer any other quesiton.
    2007-11-05 15:10:33
    240.   ToyCannon
    230
    My wife thinks everyone here is devoid of a life. I've explained that DT is full of very intelligent people and then she reads a few lines and says "mira". She always says "mira", that is what passionate and fearless latina's say to the white bread boys they marry.
    2007-11-05 15:10:53
    241.   Greg Brock
    231 Will you get to see "There Will Be Blood" early?
    2007-11-05 15:10:54
    242.   Eric Stephen
    I'm going to my first NHL game in person tonight, Dallas @ Anaheim. I'm not really a hockey fan, but I'm headed in with an open mind and the thought that hockey is much better in person than on TV.

    I believe the last full NHL game I watched was during the 1993 Stanley Cup Finals. I'll occasionally watch the playoffs, but never a full game.

    Much like my trips to the supermarket or church, my NHL experience will be enhanced if one or more fights break out.

    2007-11-05 15:12:47
    243.   Jon Weisman
    241 - Saw it last Friday. First half was outstanding, second half bogs down a bit. Some people at work loved the whole thing, but I thought it's great start got wasted.
    2007-11-05 15:12:53
    244.   ToyCannon
    241
    Took you long enough.
    2007-11-05 15:13:05
    245.   regfairfield
    240 Exactly why I try to avoid talking baseball in everyday life.
    2007-11-05 15:13:21
    246.   Jon Weisman
    Argh -- "its" not "it's"
    2007-11-05 15:13:22
    247.   bhsportsguy
    242 It is a much better game in person. Its like poker.
    2007-11-05 15:13:53
    248.   ToyCannon
    242
    It is, if it is your 1st game you'll be astounded at the size of the ice. At least I was when I went to my 1st game last year.
    2007-11-05 15:14:16
    249.   Bob Timmermann
    242
    Bring a jacket. It will be cold inside.

    Keep your head up depending upon where you sit.

    Since it's a Ducks game, expect there to be stupid penalties taken and a possible fight. The Ducks don't play nice.

    The Dallas Stars are kind of like the Atlanta Braves of the NHL.

    2007-11-05 15:14:57
    250.   bhsportsguy
    244 It only took 3 calls, an telegraphed SOS and a candygram to get him.
    Show/Hide Comments 251-300
    2007-11-05 15:15:02
    251.   trainwreck
    I went to see American Gangster this weekend, but it was completely sold out for the night. My friends and I went to a bar and drank and decided to see the silliest, dumb movie to laugh at. So we picked Saw IV.

    It was beyond even laughably bad.

    2007-11-05 15:15:28
    252.   LogikReader
    Eric, I think you'll have a lot of fun tonight. Hockey is much better to watch in person.

    TC, were you also at the Clippers game on Friday night? That was quite a game and it was the first game I've been to in a long time. I'm so glad I got that 4 pack.

    2007-11-05 15:15:46
    253.   bhsportsguy
    249 Didn't they put up that special force field to keep pucks out of the stands.
    2007-11-05 15:16:03
    254.   Greg Brock
    244 Couldn't find my ten foot pole. Turns out I left it in my jean jacket from 1988.
    2007-11-05 15:17:32
    255.   Jon Weisman
    American Gangster fits under what I described in 231.
    2007-11-05 15:17:57
    256.   Eric Stephen
    I like the picture on the front of Dodgers.com, showing Torre wearing his new Dodger cap, because you can see the underside of the brim, and it still has the UPC label sticker as well as the security device seemingly still on the hat. You'd think someone would have taken those things off before handing the hat to Joe.

    But maybe Joe likes wearing his hats that way. He was just showing he can relate to today's younger players. :)

    2007-11-05 15:18:30
    257.   Bob Timmermann
    253
    Only at the ends. Pucks fly up into the middle of the ice pretty fast too.

    I would advise arriving early as parking at the Honda Center is poorly designed. Also you will notice that:
    1) a large proportion of the fans will be wearing Ducks sweaters. And they bought the new style. And those things aren't cheap.
    2) hockey fans tend to arrive on time and stay for the whole game regardless of the score

    2007-11-05 15:20:57
    258.   underdog
    yah, the reviews for lions/lambs have been mixed. alas, the title also reminds me of the broncos last game.

    btw, don't miss The Savages when it comes out. excellent.

    phillips vs phillips could include me, too. that's my name (Underdog Phillips)

    2007-11-05 15:22:02
    259.   regfairfield
    257 This means park as close to the exits as possible, regardless of the hike to the Stadium. Otherwise you're never leaving.
    2007-11-05 15:22:43
    260.   Greg Brock
    243 That's disappointing. I have very high hopes for it.

    But I'm sure Daniel Day-Lewis is great as usual. And I'm interested in seeing how Paul Dano does with such a heavy role.

    2007-11-05 15:23:56
    261.   LogikReader
    I haven't seen nearly as many movies as many of you, or Jon, so with my limited inventory, I thought "American Gangster" was terrific. It's worth a look.

    To give you an example, I just saw Casablanca for the first time this weekend.

    2007-11-05 15:25:42
    262.   Xeifrank
    242. Hockey, televised?? I didn't think hockey was being televised anymore. Perhaps it's on the Pinkberry Channel, and I'm not willing to fork out that kind of money for that channel. vr, Xei
    2007-11-05 15:25:56
    263.   trainwreck
    Does anyone know when Juno comes out?
    2007-11-05 15:26:05
    264.   Bob Timmermann
    261
    Did you see the producer's cut? The one where Ingrid Bergman shoots Claude Rains and Humphrey Bogart and reveals herself to really be a Nazi agent?

    That one didn't test well the first time out.

    2007-11-05 15:27:21
    265.   Eric Stephen
    262 Xei, I'm proud of you for finally talking TV on Dodger Thoughts. :)

    vr, Eric

    2007-11-05 15:27:22
    266.   LogikReader
    261

    Hahahaha... My sarcasm meter is off so I'll accept at face value.

    2007-11-05 15:27:33
    267.   Jon Weisman
    260 - D-Day is awesome. Dano, I don't quite think had the power he needed.

    261 - Nothing against American Gangster, but I hope you liked Casablanca better.

    So we're bringing peace to this thread for everyone but Xeifrank.

    2007-11-05 15:27:41
    268.   ToyCannon
    261
    Then you should watch The Treasure of the Sierra Madre and really enjoy a movie.
    2007-11-05 15:28:59
    269.   LogikReader
    267

    Without question, Jon. I can see it has earned it's reputation as a classic.

    2007-11-05 15:29:05
    270.   Jon Weisman
    263 - In limited release early December.
    2007-11-05 15:29:22
    271.   Xeifrank
    265. When it's sports related, I'm not really sure that it counts. vr, Xei
    2007-11-05 15:30:53
    272.   LogikReader
    269

    Oh right, it's "its" not "it's"

    2007-11-05 15:34:07
    273.   Xeifrank
    267. I will make exception for this peregrination into movie/tv talk for the sake of peace and tranquility on DT. Ask not what your blog can do for you, but what you can do for your blog. Or something along those lines. vr, Xei
    2007-11-05 15:37:51
    274.   ToyCannon
    264
    Once you give up humor, it doesn't come back on the 1st try.
    2007-11-05 15:39:04
    275.   Andrew Shimmin
    I'm glad somebody finally jumped ugly with Sam DC. He's like DzzrtRatt, where all everybody ever does is agree with him and tell him how smart and eloquent he is.

    Zappala's day will come, too, I have great faith.

    2007-11-05 15:39:12
    276.   Dodgers49
    Per Tony Jackson

    Mattingly to be hitting coach, not bench coach

    >> Although Joe Torre was quick to say that could change if the Dodgers don't find a suitable bench coach. But I'm going to go way out on a limb and guess -- based on reading between the lines of something else Joe said today -- that he already has someone in mind for the bench coach's job, and that someone is Lee Mazzilli. <<

    ## By the way, Mattingly being the hitting coach does NOT mean he isn't the heir apparent to Torre as manager. ##

    http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/

    2007-11-05 15:40:27
    277.   Bob Timmermann
    274
    Now you've hurt my feelings again...
    2007-11-05 15:40:38
    278.   underdog
    270- and ellen page with michael cera. i'm definitely there! fun article in the last EW on the film's scriptwriter.
    2007-11-05 15:42:21
    279.   trainwreck
    Steve Phillips says we must do these three moves right now:

    1) We need power at third and we have to get either Cabrera or A-Rod.
    2) We have to move Pierre to left and go after Jones, Hunter, or Rowand.
    3)We have to trade our young talent for Johan Santana.

    Then he said we win the World Series.

    I am surprised he did not say we also had to cure cancer.

    2007-11-05 15:42:38
    280.   Eric L
    Steve Phillips just about made me throw up on Sports Center.
    2007-11-05 15:43:29
    281.   KG16
    Steve Phillips was just on ESPN, his suggested moves to make the Dodgers a WS contender:

    1. trade for Cabrerra or sign A-Rod
    2. sign Hunter or Jones to play center (if that doesn't work get Cameron or Rowand) and move Pierre to left
    3. put together a "package of young position players and young pitchers" and trade for Santana

    I take it back, I don't want ESPN talking about the Dodgers.

    2007-11-05 15:43:36
    282.   Andrew Shimmin
    Why did Mazzilli get fired in New York?
    2007-11-05 15:44:25
    283.   ToyCannon
    276
    Sure why not. I'm not surprised that we have to go all the way to NY to find someone to tell Joe that he needs to get Proctor warmed up. The manager has so many other things on his mind during a game, it is to much to expect him to keep up with what game time decisions might be needed.
    2007-11-05 15:44:48
    284.   Jon Weisman
    278 - I really liked the movie. Some of the dialogue at the start is too precious for me, but it's a better movie than some of the more ballyhooed features you see coming.
    2007-11-05 15:44:50
    285.   still bevens
    249 Ducks play dirty? Must be recent or I'm just unlucky. My first hockey game was at Anahiem about 3 years ago. I was surrounded by children and their OC mothers and didn't see one punch thrown. It was the most disappointing sporting event I have ever been to.

    I went to a King's game last year and saw a melee right off the bat.

    2007-11-05 15:44:55
    286.   LogikReader
    279

    Wow.

    Wow, wow, wow!

    This is the first time I've ever disagreed with an entire 3 part statement.

    2007-11-05 15:46:47
    287.   regfairfield
    279 Well, that is a pretty dang good team come 2008.

    Hypotethically:

    Furcal
    Martin
    A-Rod
    Jones
    Kent
    Kemp
    Loney
    Pierre

    Santana
    Penny
    Lowe
    Bills
    Schmidt

    Now, don't ask about what we do after next year, but that's one of the best teams in baseball next year. (Albeit one with a 155 million dollar payroll, which would never happen).

    2007-11-05 15:47:22
    288.   ToyCannon
    Do we need to do all three of just one of the 3? All 3 sounds like Yankee overkill, is that what were going for here?
    2007-11-05 15:49:23
    289.   ToyCannon
    287
    How did you get Santana and still have Kemp and Loney and Billz? You think LaRoche, Ethier, and Kershaw would cut it? I don't. They need Kemp in that package.
    2007-11-05 15:49:29
    290.   Bob Timmermann
    The Ducks lead the NHL in penalty minutes this year and I believe they were toward the top last year.
    2007-11-05 15:50:03
    291.   Xeifrank
    287. You forgot to trade all the young talent and to move Pierre to leadoff or the #2 hole. vr, Xei
    2007-11-05 15:50:22
    292.   Greg Brock
    I'm amazed at the number of paid journalists that contemplate moving what's-his-face to Left Field.
    2007-11-05 15:50:53
    293.   regfairfield
    289 Oh yeah. Lineup isn't quite as vicious with Ethier instead of Kemp, but still pretty good. (Let's just say Kemp and Kershaw for Johan).
    2007-11-05 15:50:59
    294.   trainwreck
    Ellen Page will always be a favorite of mine, because she is going to be the first big star to come out of Trailer Park Boys.

    Big star in America that is.

    2007-11-05 15:53:43
    295.   DodgerBakers
    287 I don't konw , it seems to me we would have this lineup if we did that:

    Furcal
    Pierre
    ARod
    Jones
    Kent
    Martin
    Nomar (1B, Loney gone to MN)
    Young/Eithier (whoever didn't get put in the package)

    Santana
    Penny
    Lowe
    Schmidt
    Tomdrickson

    Could still be a decent lineup at first, but without the homegrown talent we've all come to love. For me, I see nothing but bleak prospects from a team like that.

    2007-11-05 15:54:09
    296.   Greg Brock
    294 She rocked in Hard Candy.

    As did Nite Owl...Er...Patrick Wilson.

    2007-11-05 15:57:00
    297.   Dodgers49
    Dodgers Mailbag: Can Dodgers get discount?

    1). Is it fair to say that the Dodgers have a better shot at getting A-Rod cheaper than other teams, having signed Joe Torre and possibly Don Mattingly?
    2). We've heard so many good things about Joe Torre, it's a wonder he isn't already in the Hall of Fame. Are there any knocks?
    3). How is Lucas May progressing in the Minor Leagues?
    4). Are the Dodgers going to re-sign Randy Wolf?
    5). Any update on the Dodgers' Spring Training facility in Arizona?
    6). Will the Dodgers receive Draft-pick compensation if any of their free agents sign with another club?

    http://tinyurl.com/2z4uqp

    2007-11-05 15:57:11
    298.   jasonungar07
    I'm amazed that anyone would consider trading Kemp. I guess I don't understand baseball...The list of guys I would trade Kemp for is so small.
    2007-11-05 15:58:55
    299.   Andrew Shimmin
    Did Hard Candy ever get released? I read about it when it was at, what, Sundance? But can't remember seeing it listed at a theater. It's on DVD now, I suppose.
    2007-11-05 15:59:12
    300.   DodgerBakers
    298 I agree. The thought of giving up any of our young talent makes me sick. I'd rather watch the kids than see a bunch of imports on the field.
    Show/Hide Comments 301-350
    2007-11-05 16:00:46
    301.   D4P
    We almost rented "Hard Candy" on DVD the other night. I had never heard of it, but it looked good from the DVD cover.
    2007-11-05 16:01:35
    302.   trainwreck
    296
    Yeah, it was very good. I have to buy it.

    299
    Yeah, Lionsgate released it.

    2007-11-05 16:03:36
    303.   Telemachos
    231 I think "No Country" was fantastic... but I'll need another viewing or two to really let the film settle in. The ending, in particular, is almost defiantly unconventional (in genre movie terms, at least); I'm still a bit unsettled as to whether I like what they did or not. But, certainly head and shoulders above "American Gangsters" (a solid well-made movie with strong performances that can't shake its "seen this already" story).

    (Admittedly I'm a sucker for empty, lonely landscapes in movies -- probably explains why I liked "The Proposition" so much).

    2007-11-05 16:03:36
    304.   Greg Brock
    301 Your wife will probably enjoy it more than you will.

    It's quite rough at times.

    2007-11-05 16:04:08
    305.   Robert Daeley
    Rumor has it that the Devil Rays might shop Scott Kazmir if the Santana tradefest gets crazy:

    http://tinyurl.com/38n8he

    2007-11-05 16:04:47
    306.   dzzrtRatt
    Just watching the video:

    Why does Vinny sound so out of breath? But he is so good, speaking extemporaneous poetry. Wow.

    Ned is way over at the end, like he's barely hanging on to his place on the podium.

    Frank McCourt and Rudy Guiliani need to see the same thpeech therapitht.

    "We want to win the right way." What does that mean? Is there someone out there proposing the Dodgers start systematically cheating?

    "A man of strong character to lead us to the top." I love Torre, but there are a lot of people of "strong character" who would suck at being a manager. Did Little have a "weak" character? He seemed like a decent guy to me.

    Torre has a great voice! Three years as manager, then if Scully retires, Torre moves into the booth! Someone inside the FO must have thought of this already.

    I love that Torre used to play in our park. I don't know why, but that excites me. I remember as a kid I liked him as a player. Maybe you really only know how great Koufax, Drysdale or Sutton were if you had to hit against them.

    So it's Tommy's fault that I can't get out of a meeting without being hugged.

    Camille: Poor advance work! Couldn't someone have unbuttoned the jersey???

    That from-behind shot of Torre says: He was a catcher!

    The first question from Jim Hill was the softest softball I've ever heard.

    All this talk about the "special" quality of the Dodgers is vaguely embarrassing. You have to be at least 25 years old to remember anything special about them.

    Cool. Brad Penny attended. If this team has a leader, it's Penny.

    Torre is "big in Japan!" And I love how he corrects the TV Japan reporter's pronunciation of Saito.

    Beane's "playoffs are a crapshoot" meme is catching on. Torre used it. Has this subtly undermined the post-season?

    I think he's not a "chemistry" guy. That's good. It's about following the manager's lead, not about the team "getting along."

    John Wooden is "one of my mentors?"

    "Don't assume that just because someone is paid a lot of money that he knows something." Or should play centerfield.

    On balance: If I just woke up like a frozen caveman to see this press conference today, I'd be excited. The process of getting here saps the confidence, but just on its own merits, I'd say the Dodgers were lucky.

    2007-11-05 16:05:40
    307.   Andrew Shimmin
    Hard Candy is the kind of movie where I wonder if Jon might not have preferred to bend his no-spoilers rule for it.
    2007-11-05 16:10:13
    308.   D4P
    BREAKING NEWS:

    Maddux re-ups with Padres.

    2007-11-05 16:12:26
    309.   Lexinthedena
    My grandfather was the wardrobe man for Casablanca....and I saw it for the first time just a year ago!....it is a masterpiece no doubt....
    2007-11-05 16:16:43
    310.   KG16
    A prayer for the off season:

    Dear Great Dodger in the Sky, please do not let Ned panic. Grant the Dodgers front office the wisdom to not squander years of potential success for a rental championship. Watch over our kids as they train this off season so that they may find 40 home run power. Let our team find its identity for the first time since my childhood. We ask this in the name of Drysdale, Campanella, and Robinson, Amen.

    2007-11-05 16:32:22
    311.   Dodgers49
    306 Cool. Brad Penny attended. If this team has a leader, it's Penny.

    But, would Penny have even been in town if his horse had not run Saturday at Santa Anita?

    2007-11-05 16:33:51
    312.   Izzy
    308. phhphtt!
    2007-11-05 16:33:58
    313.   bhsportsguy
    311 His girlfriend just got a new gig though with the strike, I presume it has been shut down for a while.
    2007-11-05 16:36:48
    314.   KG16
    311 - of course, Torre owns race horses too, he's looking for an investment partner. World Series title and Triple Crown on his mind.
    2007-11-05 16:38:38
    315.   D4P
    It's all for entertainment purposes only until some horse breaks a leg and has to be killed.
    2007-11-05 16:41:26
    316.   Izzy
    So it looks like it's Mattingly for the hitting coach. I prefer bench if he is going to run a club someday, but he does have a simple, uncluttered approach to the swing, and it may free him up to work with Jr. a bit more. I guess we win either way.
    2007-11-05 16:41:40
    317.   Marty
    268 I knew there was a reason I liked you. There's almost as many quotable lines in that move as Lebowski.
    2007-11-05 16:42:02
    318.   blue22
    FJM already has an update on Steve Phillips "plan" for the Dodgers offseason. KT not totally up to speed on Dodger specifics, but guess what he thinks of Mr Phillips' ideas?
    2007-11-05 16:44:52
    319.   blue22
    Torre, Mattingly, Bowa, and now (speculation at least) Mazzilli? This is going to be an expensive coaching staff.
    2007-11-05 16:50:39
    320.   D4P
    319
    When Management spends a lot of money, it shows me that they're committed to winning.
    2007-11-05 16:52:17
    321.   Dodgers49
    A-Rod's split with Yankees a mutual one

    >> The Yankees, likewise, would rather vilify Boras and Rodriguez than admit that it's insane to spend $42 million per season on A-Rod — $30 million in salary plus $12 million in luxury tax at the maximum 40 percent rate. <<

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7409488

    2007-11-05 16:55:23
    322.   D4P
    You know, having read the FJM piece, it occurs to me that GMs are much like presidents. They have a lot of incentive to spend now, and leave bad contracts/debt/wars/etc. for the next guy/gal.
    2007-11-05 16:55:30
    323.   trainwreck
    I am watching the Memphis game and Derrick Rose has a good chance at being National Player of the Year.
    2007-11-05 17:01:52
    324.   El Lay Dave
    318 Funny, when I read Phillips' (this guy was an actual GM!) three points, as described in 279 and 281 , I immediately had one of the same conclusions KT had: if 1 is achieved by a Cabrera trade and 3 is also done, the prospect cupboard is bare, or approaching it.

    And if 2 is "settling for Mike Cameron", who plays CF for the first 25 games?

    Ridiculous.

    2007-11-05 17:08:04
    325.   D4P
    Phillips' (this guy was an actual GM!)

    Sadly, he's not even the exception.

    2007-11-05 17:15:14
    326.   bhsportsguy
    323 An interesting matchup in a month when Memphis takes on USC.
    2007-11-05 17:16:43
    327.   D4P
    Derrick Rose has a good chance at being National Player of the Year

    If he wants to win, he should try to have slightly worse stats than the second place guy. That seems to help in PoY races these days.

    2007-11-05 17:18:11
    328.   s choir
    This may border on rule 5, but it relates to baseball so I think it's ok:

    The teller at my bank told me that the dollar is going to stay weak as long as the U.S. keeps spending money on Iraq. Since none of the major candidates on either side seem to show any interest in removing us from Iraq any time soon, it makes sense to spend outrageously on long term free agent contracts, knowing that within a few years those contracts will seem really really cheap.

    On the other hand, if I'm Scott Boras I negotiate A-Rod's salary in Euros.

    2007-11-05 17:18:32
    329.   Izzy
    I have to admit, seeing the Yankees give it to Boras, well it warms my heart. I just hope they don't cave.
    2007-11-05 17:20:41
    330.   D4P
    329
    Ditto. I hope he makes less than he was gonna make with the Yankees. I'd love to see Boras have to spin that into something positive, with the entire world knowing that he got "pwned".
    2007-11-05 17:25:08
    331.   silverwidow
    295 Your proposal has Billingsley, Kemp and Loney all gone. That will never happen.
    2007-11-05 17:27:17
    332.   Dodgers49
    Hiring Torre won't help Dodgers' pursuit of A-Rod

    >> The belief here is that while A-Rod may not view Torre as a deterrent to joining the Dodgers, he surely wouldn't view him as an attraction, either. <<

    ## McCourt is awfully slick. But shopping for a manager when you already have one is not something even an inveterate slickster can get away with. In any case, Little deserved better. It was like he was the third choice, or fourth, or fifth for his own job.

    By the time Little left or was forced out, the Dodgers were pursuing both Girardi and Torre. Girardi was actually an even better fit for the Dodgers, as they viewed him as a guy who could grow with the young team. Torre isn't a bad second choice at all, though. If anyone can cure a clubhouse division, it is Torre. ##

    http://tinyurl.com/2acylr

    2007-11-05 17:27:35
    333.   Andrew Shimmin
    What are the chances Rodriguez pulls down less than $81 million over three years? It doesn't hurt to hope for it, I guess, but you'd probably be better off not betting on it.
    2007-11-05 17:29:12
    334.   Jason in Canada
    328 Hence why I believe Alex will be a Blue Jay. Boras could not possibly pass on the Canadian dollar at $1.07. And I believe ole' Ted Rogers might just let J.P. go for it.
    2007-11-05 17:36:26
    335.   trainwreck
    Am I the only one that thinks we hired Torre because we are not going to get A-Rod? The Dodgers wanted to make a move that would give them a lot of attention and credibility and they knew they were not going to get A-Rod, so the second best option was to get Torre. Not to mention it was the cheapest move too.
    2007-11-05 17:40:22
    336.   Greg Brock
    335 I don't think they'll make a serious attempt at Rodriguez. And the Torre hire is PR all the way. But I don't think they hired Torre to soften the blow of not making a play for A-Rod.
    2007-11-05 17:44:22
    337.   trainwreck
    336
    I did not word it correctly. I meant to say we wanted to do a big PR move and this was the best option out there, second to A-Rod. Plus, it is a lot cheaper than paying for a superstar.
    2007-11-05 17:49:25
    338.   Frip
    Brock: "And the Torre hire is PR all the way".

    Though maybe not intended that way. Guys like McCourt think big time managers mean big time ball. To McCourt, PR is a reality.

    ...PR is Substance, and Substance is PR.

    (ok, I'm slightly buzzed, but still)

    2007-11-05 17:49:31
    339.   Jon Weisman
    335 - You could never count on getting A-Rod even if he were priority one. So it's not that you're wrong, but the two aren't necessarily connected.

    I think the hiring of Torre is a legitimate if expensive response to Grady, for whatever reasons (legit or not legit), becoming untenable as Dodger manager.

    2007-11-05 17:49:45
    340.   D4P
    it is a lot cheaper than paying for a superstar

    We're paying Torre as if he's a superstar.

    2007-11-05 17:53:38
    341.   Jon Weisman
    340 - Relative to managers. In actual terms, we're paying him slightly more than Mark Hendrickson.
    2007-11-05 17:53:38
    342.   Dodgers49
    Dodgers Introduce Torre as Manager

    >> Brad Penny, a 16-game winner for the Dodgers this year, thinks people are making too much of the clubhouse problems.

    ''We were getting along great for five months. I was there, it wasn't that bad,'' Penny said. ''It wasn't Grady's fault. For whatever reason, we weren't good enough to make it.'' <<

    ## Colletti said he hadn't spoken with Boras for months.

    ''We'll have to see if they have an interest in being here,'' Colletti said. ''I don't know if they do. It will have to make sense.'' ##

    http://tinyurl.com/ytbl92

    2007-11-05 17:55:30
    343.   Andrew Shimmin
    340- A superstar in his first year of arbitration, maybe.
    2007-11-05 17:57:16
    344.   LAT
    311. To be more exact:

    "But, would Penny have even been in town if his horse had not run FIFTH Saturday at Santa Anita?"

    2007-11-05 17:57:17
    345.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
    I'd say signing Torre certainly raises expectations, but the consensus seems to be that he won't make much of a difference in the win column. If that's the case, then the Torre signing is actually a PR disaster, setting fans up for another disappointment (similar to 1999).

    Of course, I think the Dodgers underperformed this year, so even the status quo roster would likely result in more wins next year (and Torre will be hailed as a savior/genius).

    2007-11-05 17:57:32
    346.   D4P
    Relative to managers

    Which is what I meant.

    2007-11-05 17:58:24
    347.   D4P
    Of course, I think the Dodgers underperformed this year, so even the status quo roster would likely result in more wins next year (and Torre will be hailed as a savior/genius)

    I would guess that this is the consensus around here.

    2007-11-05 18:04:35
    348.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
    Torre's remark about Latin players reminds me of Fisher DeBerry's comment a year or so ago that "Afro-American kids can run very well." He got hammered for saying that, even though it was "positive."
    2007-11-05 18:08:13
    349.   Izzy
    335. I am not convinced that the McCourts are cheap. The team payroll this year was decent, although still not what I think it should be at. Myself, I am tired of paying millions of dollars for so so, "maybe" type players. I would rather just spend the money and get what we pay for. Besides, it isn't just hype that Arod will offset his salary with additional revenues. Even if it's only 5 mil a year, well, that's 5 mil a year and that means something.
    2007-11-05 18:09:39
    350.   Dodgers49
    Derek Lowe: "There was a lot of animosity."

    Brad Penny: "I was there, it wasn't that bad."

    Which one has it right?

    Show/Hide Comments 351-400
    2007-11-05 18:09:57
    351.   Jason in Canada
    Did anyone else read the article on the Dodgers site about Ned explaining Grady's departure?

    What a strange, strange story.

    http://tinyurl.com/3baaw7

    2007-11-05 18:15:06
    352.   trainwreck
    349
    I don't think he is cheap. I just think Torre is a cheap alternative to signing a big name player. Look how much coverage the Dodgers are getting all of a sudden and they only had to sign him for a little above 4 million a year.

    From a business standpoint, that makes sense if you want to make a big splash.

    2007-11-05 18:16:05
    353.   trainwreck
    350
    Penny: I was cool with the young guys for the most part.

    Lowe: I hated the young guys.

    2007-11-05 18:19:01
    354.   Dodgers49
    Mattingly, Bowa joining Torre on staff
    Dodgers still unsure of other positions at this early stage

    >> "The coaches need to be efficient and a positive influence on the players. I believe you don't hire friends to be coaches. There's so much work to be done with young players." <<

    ## There have been reports that first-base coach Mariano Duncan (who played for Torre in New York) and pitching coach Rick Honeycutt might be retained, but there were no confirmations of that, either. Former Yankees coaches Mazzilli and Jose Cardenal also are reportedly under consideration for Torre's staff. ##

    http://tinyurl.com/2h9zvs

    2007-11-05 18:19:19
    355.   Bluebleeder87
    MLB.Com's multimedia feed has been absolutely horrid the last few days in my area, UGH!
    2007-11-05 18:19:31
    356.   Sam DC
    I'll admit, I'm kind of amazed Pettite declined a $16M option. Although the espn.com article makes it sound like he has some sort of side deal with Yankees if he decides he wants to play.

    That's just a heck of a lot of money to let go of.

    2007-11-05 18:20:08
    357.   D4P
    Lowe probably hated the young guys because he saw them as competition for babes and chicks.
    2007-11-05 18:24:15
    358.   Bluebleeder87
    347

    Yup, we have so much talent here (all hale, Logan White!!) upper management couldn't possible mess things up

    2007-11-05 18:28:59
    359.   Dodgers49
    Colletti sheds light on Little's departure
    GM says former skipper approached him during season

    >> "I told him when the season ended to go home and think about it," said Colletti. "I told him he could manage this club, but a long time went by. The World Series was upon us and he called, but the conversation wasn't convincing. I said to let me think this thing through and in the process we talked to Joe Torre." <<

    http://tinyurl.com/3baaw7

    2007-11-05 18:41:18
    360.   Andrew Shimmin
    This is the pull quote I'd have gone with:

    The Dodgers ultimately bought Little out of his contract.

    2007-11-05 18:43:32
    361.   Sam DC
    I need a favor from my cousin in Pittsburgh. I'm seriously thinking right now is the time to call and ask.
    2007-11-05 18:44:44
    362.   Daniel Zappala
    Comment 275 unsettled me. I'm going to be keeping my eye on Andrew. He's a child-hater and now a professor-hater. What could be worse?
    2007-11-05 18:51:21
    363.   Dodgers49
    361 Speaking of Pittsburgh, you heard it here first. :-) New England will go to 12-0, then get upset at home by Pittsburgh on December 9th.
    2007-11-05 18:52:14
    364.   Andrew Shimmin
    362- No, it wouldn't work if I tried to drag you down to my level. I'd be shouted down. It'll have to come out of nowhere. It's a theory I have that everybody bugs somebody. Even people like you, about whom there's objectively nothing objectionable. There's somebody, somewhere, sitting in front of his computer grousing, "That Zappala thinks he such hot stuff. I'll be taking him down a peg or two, some day soon. . ."
    2007-11-05 18:57:29
    365.   Greg Brock
    There's somebody, somewhere, sitting in front of his computer grousing, "That Zappala thinks he such hot stuff. I'll be taking him down a peg or two, some day soon. . ."

    Yes. Yes, there is.

    2007-11-05 19:05:46
    366.   WillieD
    One of Torre's first comments this morning:

    "We're sitting here in center field, where Willie Davis used to catch everything I hit..."

    I like him already.

    2007-11-05 19:07:48
    367.   El Lay Dave
    364 Dean Martin rejected "Everybody Bugs Somebody Sometime" until Irving Taylor and Ken Lane came up with a lyric change.
    2007-11-05 19:08:49
    368.   El Lay Dave
    366 He also cited 6, his uniform number, as the number the Carl Furillo used to wear.
    2007-11-05 19:14:23
    369.   Bluebleeder87
    after all these years my mind still has a hard time adjusting to this time change thing, I swear I never get use to it.
    2007-11-05 19:15:07
    370.   Fallout
    366 WillieD
    "We're sitting here in center field, where Willie Davis used to catch everything I hit..."

    Before D4P says it. (I know his humor or lack thereof depending on who you ask.)

    Torre wishes he was playing now so Pierre would misjudge his flies.

    2007-11-05 19:28:36
    371.   Daniel Zappala
    "That Zappala thinks he such hot stuff. I'll be taking him down a peg or two, some day soon. . ."

    It can't be Brock. Brock wouldn't do that to me. It's gotta be somebody who thinks ungrammatically. "He such hot stuff." Who would say that? Probably being a grammar policeman has to tick somebody off.

    2007-11-05 19:29:30
    372.   D4P
    I'm going to be keeping my eye on Andrew. He's a child-hater and now a professor-hater. What could be worse?

    I'll tell you what: a Wal-Mart shopper.

    2007-11-05 19:34:16
    373.   Disabled List
    Maybe I'm biased, because DT can be a bit of an echo chamber sometimes, but it seems to me like there's a huge disconnect between the LA sports media and the fans on what to do with the Dodgers. The Plaschkes and A Martinezes are adamant that Kemp has to go and a deal has to be swung to bring in Santana or Cabrera. From what I read here, and on Dodgers.com, and the letters page of the LA Times, it seems like the fans are more willing to let a homegrown team take root and build a winner the old-fashioned way.

    You SoCal residents are probably more in tune with this than I am. What do you all think? What's the pulse of the people?

    2007-11-05 19:43:38
    374.   Greg Brock
    373 I think most of the writers and radio mouths thrive on being provocateurs. But real provocateurs can do it without seeming so. Plaschke and his ilk just come off as grasping for controversy. Make the big deal, do the big signing. WE'VE GOT TO SELL, MORTIMER...SELL! SELL!

    Nobody likes reading or listening to people who say "Just make a few changes here and there. Everything will be alright."

    Makes for lousy print and radio.

    2007-11-05 19:46:11
    375.   Greg Brock
    373 To add, when the Torre deal leaked, a certain sportswriter said that this meant Arte Moreno had to sign Alex Rodriguez.

    Dodgers hire 67 year old man to fill out lineup card, Angels must respond by spending 300 million dollars. That isn't even attempting to appear sane.

    2007-11-05 19:58:31
    376.   Vishal
    "We were getting along great for five months. I was there, it wasn't that bad," Penny said.

    when the dodgers were winning, what a coincidence.

    2007-11-05 20:05:10
    377.   dzzrtRatt
    372 Explain to me why the Eagles, co-led by one of the most aggressively PC guys in rock music, would sell their CD exclusively through Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart! That's like finding out Al Gore flies around in a private jet.
    2007-11-05 20:19:58
    378.   Dodgers49
    Per the Tommy Lasorda discussion earlier, two points:

    1). I worked on Bunker Hill from '84 to '92 and I believe Tommy had an apartment there for most, if not all, of that time.

    2). In addition to the two restaurants mentioned there was also a Tommy Lasorda restaurant near the Lakewood/Cerritos border. It may have been on South Street as I vaguely remember passing it on my way to Cerritos Auto Square.

    2007-11-05 20:31:02
    379.   trainwreck
    According to ESPN, Schilling and Red Sox are closing in on a one-year deal.
    2007-11-05 20:31:57
    380.   Marty
    In Lasorda's restaurant in South Pasadena you could hear the patrons say:

    I don't like my roaches this way. I like my roaches sauteed!

    2007-11-05 20:34:09
    381.   natepurcell
    The McCourts had a pre-existing link to Torre's agent, Maury Gostfrand. Jamie McCourt's mother and Gostfrand's mother are friends.

    So that's how we got Torre.

    2007-11-05 20:38:17
    382.   Dodgers49
    380 I don't like my roaches this way. I like my roaches sauteed!

    So I guess I was fortunate to drive right on by the one I saw without stopping. :-)

    2007-11-05 20:56:55
    383.   Greg Brock
    I must say, Bobby Valentine's restaurant in Stamford, CT was quite good.
    2007-11-05 21:05:07
    384.   dzzrtRatt
    I saw Bobby Valentine play high school football. He was a celebrity in Stamford in 1967. He was an incredible running back at Rippowam High.
    2007-11-05 21:05:48
    385.   LogikReader
    If Valentine's Restaurant closes, I'm blaming it on the Scranton Restaurant!
    2007-11-05 21:13:48
    386.   natepurcell
    Colletti's number 1 goal at the GM meetings this week is ______________________.

    finish the sentence!

    2007-11-05 21:16:22
    387.   Greg Brock
    386 Establishing which bats are available in the trade market.
    2007-11-05 21:21:16
    388.   natepurcell
    (386)

    See if there is any...ANY interest from GMs in Juan Pierre.

    2007-11-05 21:21:36
    389.   LAT
    386.
    to look like he's really not hiding from Scott Boras.
    2007-11-05 21:23:00
    390.   jujibee
    386

    Getting Alex Rios for Juan Pierre somehow. I don't care if we throw in a few prospects, money, three team trade or whatever, but that's what needs to be done. Alex Rios and Andy Laroche > A rod and Juan Pierre.

    2007-11-05 21:27:35
    391.   Greg Brock
    Steve Phillips went through his ridiculous stuff about the Dodgers on SportsCenter.

    And then Kenny Mayne says "Steve...Predicting an unlimited payroll."

    Why don't people like Kenny Mayne again?

    2007-11-05 21:31:54
    392.   natepurcell
    391

    I saw that too! Even Kenny Mayne realizes how moronic Phillips suggestions are.

    2007-11-05 21:34:18
    393.   Jon Weisman
    NPUT
    2007-11-05 21:36:00
    394.   ToyCannon
    Bobby Valentin was playing AAA at the age of 19. Who does that? He went from the rookie league at age 18 to the AAA with no stops in A or AA according to baseball cube. I remember being enthralled with him because he was born in 1950 and he was the 1st guy I can remember playing in the major leagues who was born in 1950.
    2007-11-05 22:08:30
    395.   LAT
    Brock you should know I am hating all middle school history teachers right now. My daughter is supposed to be John Langdon and has to write a speech about why all states should have an equal vote in the national legislature and whether slaves should be taxed as property or counted as part of the population for representation purposes. She is a math person so this might as well be in latin. We are already on hour three.

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