Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Help
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Search
Google Search
Web
Toaster
Dodger Thoughts
Archives

2009
02  01 

2008
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2007
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2006
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2005
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2004
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2003
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2002
09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Howell and the Madeleines
2007-11-16 13:30
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Ken Howell, promoted from AAA Las Vegas to become the Dodgers' new bullpen coach, evokes fond feelings in a Proustian way for me - though I'm not sure why.

It might have to do with his rookie season, when he showed some promise. Not that I would have looked at him that closely back then, but for a 10-game period, he pitched 15 2/3 shutout innings, walking one and striking out 18. But honestly, I'm not convinced that's it.

Still, I'm happy to see the guy work his way back to the majors as a coach.

Rick Honeycutt and Mariano Duncan are back. Bob Schaefer (not the CBS newsman) will be the bench coach, and Manny Mota, according to Ken Gurnick of MLB.com, "is expected to return, although details have not been finalized."

* * *

The Dodgers announced that on Monday, there will be a ceremonial groundbreaking of their new spring training home in Glendale, Arizona - and that renderings of the facility will be unveiled.

No word on what kind of ceremony will be held for the Dodgers' departure from Vero Beach.

Comments (154)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-11-16 13:38:37
1.   derek22
1st?
2007-11-16 13:38:51
2.   natepurcell
Annnnd Still Bevens takes the cake with a double post on the 1,000th comment!
2007-11-16 13:38:58
3.   Jon Weisman
top.
2007-11-16 13:39:05
4.   derek22
woohoo

here is what i was typin before we got closed down

994 dont think so...we never have...our hitting coach last year was our "special GM assistant" or somethin like that

2007-11-16 13:40:40
5.   LogikReader
Hooray for 1000 posts!

This is the kind of news I like to hear. Hopefully the Rowand talk is just that, talk. We'll see. Rowand might be good, but not 15 million dollars good.

2007-11-16 13:40:53
6.   Jacob L
Nice job shutting down the comments at exactly 1000, Jon. That's the kind of split second timing that could translate into could fist base coaching.
2007-11-16 13:41:53
7.   Don Tordilla
Man, what I would give to know the details behind this:

He said there have been some trade conversations as well, adding: "We thought we had a deal the other day with somebody and they got cold feet at the end."

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7423208

2007-11-16 13:42:02
8.   derek22
i picture a bunch of guys running out of a bank, jumping in a car and speeding away while shooting guns out the side windows....

thats how i picture the "getaway" from vero

2007-11-16 13:42:04
9.   fiddlestick
If you've never been to ST in Arizona, you're in for a treat.
2007-11-16 13:42:11
10.   LogikReader
Regardless of where Rowand ends up, I'm going to institute a Rowand vs Ethier tracker during the season.
2007-11-16 13:42:27
11.   natepurcell
It also seems like they were constantly having happy hours with free booze, so its got that going for it.

My first round interview with one of the senior AE mentors 3 weeks ago kind of conveyed that type of company culture to me.

My initial reaction..."eh". I usually don't like mixing work with pleasure.

2007-11-16 13:43:23
12.   LogikReader
By the way, one thing that NedCo is not really known for, so far, is making off-season trades. Was there one that I forgot along the way?
2007-11-16 13:44:17
13.   Hythloday
11 - Does this explain your ambivalence about the "dancer"? Do you work at a strip club?
2007-11-16 13:44:19
14.   natepurcell
7

That scares me.

But of course, anything Colletti says/does scares me.

2007-11-16 13:44:41
15.   Jacob L
12 Baez and Carter for Tiffany and Jackson comes to mind right away.
2007-11-16 13:45:37
16.   derek22
Colletti also said Manny Mota will return for a 29th season on the staff, and Rob Flippo will come back as bullpen catcher.

this im glad about....well the mota part..not sure about this flippo fella....maybe we can just make him the backup...not like the backup catcher even played last year.

2007-11-16 13:46:22
17.   natepurcell
13

No I don't work at a strip club. I actually don't work right now, 18 units this semester is taking too much of my time. My ambivalence stems from intimidation.

2007-11-16 13:46:29
18.   still bevens
2 Awesome accomplishment if I do say so myself. I actually tried to stop the refresh that I hit on accident once I realized the double post would occur.

11 The one thing that was good about Insight for my friend was that they basically payed for all or a big part of her MBA classes (that I believe she used to get another job).

2007-11-16 13:47:06
19.   derek22
this is encouraging

Meanwhile, Torre said he's had some time to familiarize himself with the Dodgers' roster.

"I don't know if there are any gaping holes," he said. "I don't feel like we have to do any overhaul."

2007-11-16 13:47:58
20.   El Lay Dave
From the last thread: 967 - "The Dodgers won the title in 1988 despite that trade, not because of it."

Hmmm. Well, Pedro was a big stick on team that was, other than Gibson, offensively challenged. But Fernando was hurt, Hillegas was being given up on after 10 starts with generally poor results, and after Orel, the 2 and 3 starters were an otherwise Tomkoesque pitching having a career year (Leary) and a rookie, Tim Belcher. Tudor went 4-3 in nine starts, gave up only 2 runs in each of two of those losses and the Dodgers won his two NDs, and posted an ERA+ of 139 down the stretch.

On the other hand, he came up lame in the WS, wasn't a real factor in the LCS, and the Dodgers won the west by seven games, so maybe they could have afforded to lose all six wins they got in Tudor's starts. Perhaps the Dodgers won neither because, nor despite that trade.

2007-11-16 13:49:03
21.   natepurcell
18

Do you have an idea how long she stayed with them before moving on?

2007-11-16 13:49:04
22.   fanerman
I only see 999 comments.
2007-11-16 13:49:46
23.   D4P
My ambivalence stems from intimidation

You need to ask yourself: what would Burt do?

2007-11-16 13:50:19
24.   El Lay Dave
22 (I only 998 that number up to 999. ;) ) I guess the "comments close" message counts as comment number 1000?
2007-11-16 13:51:05
25.   derek22
maybe this world series talk is making me depressed, seeing that we have 1 playoff win since then.....

think we got the world "world series curse"?

we are cursed for having won that one....i dunno

-cries-

2007-11-16 13:51:38
26.   El Lay Dave
21 Have you called Gauge yet? It's afternoon now, she might be up.
2007-11-16 13:52:16
27.   Jon Weisman
There were a couple of posts at the end that foiled me. Post #1000 was actually a double post, where I had planned to put the word "top."
2007-11-16 13:52:52
28.   natepurcell
26

I'm still debating. I might do the cowardly thing and text her later this evening. I have to go to the rec first (need to get my 2 hours of bball in) then its probably off to casino tonight!

2007-11-16 13:53:32
29.   derek22
21 26
lemme go look

-goes to bedroom-

she is still sleeping.

2007-11-16 13:53:44
30.   Kevin Lewis
10

I look forward to watching that, but I hope it is with Ethier on our team. We can say, "aren't you glad we didn't spend money on him?"

2007-11-16 13:54:21
31.   Jacob L
Woo hoo! Now I have the last word at 999.
2007-11-16 13:54:39
32.   still bevens
21 As far as I know she was there after graduating from college in 2002ish. So almost 5 years.
2007-11-16 13:54:41
33.   blue22
7 - LaRoche, Kershaw, and Broxton for Cabrera?
2007-11-16 13:56:04
34.   natepurcell
So when Colletti says middle of the order bat, is he qualifying Rowand as a middle of the order bat?
2007-11-16 13:57:11
35.   derek22
what do you all think about joe crede?
2007-11-16 13:57:48
36.   blue22
35 - Rule 13.
2007-11-16 13:58:17
37.   LogikReader
34

We'll see. But if you ask me, the career stats say he's another Ethier. Basically Colletti could be fooled into buying a 15 million dollar Andre Ethier.

2007-11-16 13:59:39
38.   fanerman
35 I imagine Joe Crede is a nice guy and decent human being.
2007-11-16 13:59:59
39.   Jacob L
Having just invested 20 seconds in studying Rowand's stats, I'd say he's benefited tremendously from park effects, and is obviously coming off a career year.
2007-11-16 14:00:15
40.   El Lay Dave
35 He'll be 30 in April.
Career: .259 .305 .446 92 OPS+
Play LaRoche.
2007-11-16 14:00:29
41.   natepurcell
This is my deal to the Marlins. This package will top any other package that will be offered. This package consists of a mlb ready position player who is rated 2nd best at his position, mlb ready late inning type reliever, mlb ready shortstop and pitcher who is within a year away of the majors with high upside.

No team can offer this package. This package consists of prospects rated as most likely the #2-5 in the organization.

Take it or leave it Florida, you're not taking away our Minotaur!

2007-11-16 14:00:37
42.   D4P
39
You just disqualified yourself from a GM position.
2007-11-16 14:01:21
43.   ToyCannon
14
I didn't see anything in there that scared me. I actually thought it was the most positive media report I've seen this fall.
2007-11-16 14:01:22
44.   KG16
Roger Lodge on Rome's show about Bonds: this is not a sad day, a sad day is when Blind Date went out of production and the paycheck stopped coming every Thursday.

There is something very true about that statement, on so many levels.

2007-11-16 14:01:52
45.   Andrew Shimmin
Nate makes me think of Proust. "The charms of the passing woman are generally in direct proportion to the swiftness of her passing."
2007-11-16 14:01:58
46.   derek22
36 rule 11
2007-11-16 14:01:59
47.   natepurcell
The package in 41 allows them to get a GG quality SS and move Hanley to CF where he can roam free and not worry about how crappy of a defensive player he is.
2007-11-16 14:02:34
48.   Jacob L
42 Agent, too, I would guess.
2007-11-16 14:03:16
49.   KG16
28 - dude, you got to call her. No text messaging until after a first date. It would be the subject of a whole scene in Swingers 2.
2007-11-16 14:03:23
50.   El Lay Dave
Rowand is too huge a risk to revert to his 2005-2006 93 and 86 OPS+ level to gamble on him with a long term contract. I pass on him.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-11-16 14:03:28
51.   natepurcell
45

But...Proust was gay...

2007-11-16 14:03:38
52.   blue22
41 - LaRoche, Meloan, Hu, and McDonald?
2007-11-16 14:04:33
53.   D4P
48
Yes, that too. Looks like you're destined for a middle-class career that doesn't pay very well.

Have you thought of planning...?

2007-11-16 14:04:45
54.   jasonungar07
From Josh:

And finally, to try and soothe the fears of everyone who reads the rumors, while I'm not the GM, I can assure you that everyone here understands the value of our young players and the ridiculous asking prices that are usually out there at the beginning of the offseason. Everything in baseball is a negotiation and the initial requests or numbers are rarely the final ones. Just think about the $350 million that suddenly became $275 this week.

One of the first things Ned said on the call is that one of the difficult things is that our "prospects" aren't really prospects anymore. They're legitimate Major Leaguers and everyone seems to understand that. Any trade that would be made would be made with that in mind.

Have a nice weekend...

2007-11-16 14:05:39
55.   blue22
50 - I was shocked that it might take $15M to get Rowand. I thought he could be a decent alternative to the massive contract that Hunter would get.

Now I'm putting my support behind Mike Cameron if Ned feels compelled to add a CFer.

2007-11-16 14:05:58
56.   derek22
i say we secretly sneak food into every area that cabrera hangs out throughout his day and let the angels giants duke it out for him....meanwhile we can run up the price to get him.
2007-11-16 14:06:21
57.   natepurcell
52

Now that is a good haul of talent! Marlins...oblige, right now.

2007-11-16 14:06:38
58.   El Lay Dave
28 Gauge, casino. Where will Nate find the luck? And 49 is right on.
2007-11-16 14:06:51
59.   Jacob L
53 I was hoping to be the Scott Boras of planning. Whenever we adopt a long-term infrastructure investment program, I get 10%.
2007-11-16 14:07:31
60.   natepurcell
One of the first things Ned said on the call is that one of the difficult things is that our "prospects" aren't really prospects anymore. They're legitimate Major Leaguers and everyone seems to understand that. Any trade that would be made would be made with that in mind.

Its so simple...you don't trade them. We have a deep enough farm system where you don't need to dip into your major league roster for trading chips.

2007-11-16 14:08:32
61.   D4P
59
Lousy AICP Code of Ethics...
2007-11-16 14:08:54
62.   Sushirabbit
51, if it bothers you, think of it as Ebbinghausian. Or "involuntary memory". What's strange is that I've been thinking about this idea all day, because last night I was listening to Michael O'domhnaill and my 5 year old was asking me why I looked so funny. And I was trying to explain to him that it was like I was in another place for a bit, and I was thinking of the things that can do that for me, and one is hearing Vin Scully.
2007-11-16 14:09:26
63.   fanerman
60 I agree. But at least Ned thinks of them as major leaguers now.
2007-11-16 14:09:26
64.   blue22
54 - So he's saying that it'll be Kershaw and LaRoche that get traded for Crede and Contreras. Got it.
2007-11-16 14:11:47
65.   derek22
Vin makes me laugh..he is slowly losing his mind, and yet he is still by far the best ever
2007-11-16 14:11:55
66.   Sushirabbit
Anybody else here have any thoughts on Lisi's E8 Lattice theory? Maybe we should call Danica?
2007-11-16 14:12:40
67.   derek22
explain this lattice theory
2007-11-16 14:13:18
68.   Disabled List
54 That's one of the more reassuring things I've read in the last 1,000 or so posts.
2007-11-16 14:14:10
69.   silverwidow
7 So Ned claimed we had a deal but the other team "got cold feet."

Maybe it was a win for us?

2007-11-16 14:15:07
70.   derek22
54 68
i would be assured by this but it was said by ned.
2007-11-16 14:15:16
71.   still bevens
66 I only read a bbc article about it. They didn't explain much. They just talked about E8 and how it occurs in nature, but then didnt say how. They seemed mostly concerned with the fact that the dude is a beach bum.
2007-11-16 14:16:21
72.   still bevens
55 Mike Cameron strikes out way too much to be loved by Ned. The correlating low batting average doesn't help either.
2007-11-16 14:16:30
73.   JJ42
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071116/lf_nm_life/initials_performance_dc

"Researchers who studied the impact of initials found that baseballs players whose first or last name starts with the letter K, which signifies a strikeout, tended to strike out more often than other players."

I'm sure we wouldn't want Kendall or Koskie anyway.

2007-11-16 14:16:43
74.   blue22
69 - I'm not so sure. If the other side gets cold feet, there couldn't have been too much on the table.
2007-11-16 14:19:52
75.   KG16
66 67 - better yet, have Danica explain it.
2007-11-16 14:20:47
76.   derek22
kent doesnt seem to strikeout too much..although i havent looked at the numbers
2007-11-16 14:20:50
77.   FirstMohican
73 - That's great news for Kershaw.
2007-11-16 14:21:35
78.   natepurcell
I sent Diamond on a quest to find out about the almost trade.
2007-11-16 14:22:03
79.   derek22
77 why, just means he will strikeout when he bats
2007-11-16 14:22:25
80.   Jon Weisman
36 - Rule 13 includes not using Rule 13 that way.
2007-11-16 14:22:55
81.   derek22
lol i met a girl named diamond the other night...i think she was a prostitute though...im serious
2007-11-16 14:24:04
82.   Ken Noe
I only struck out once in high school. Of course, they only gave me four at-bats. Grounded out twice and hit a really sweet single.
2007-11-16 14:26:09
83.   derek22
way to go noe
2007-11-16 14:27:35
84.   LogikReader
These unwritten rules remind me of "How I Met Your Mother" for a very inexplicable reason.
2007-11-16 14:28:48
85.   derek22
im making a new unwritten rule banning unwritten rules....
2007-11-16 14:30:03
86.   FirstMohican
79 - It was a joke based on the possibility that the trend would somehow apply differently pitchers. Nevermind.
2007-11-16 14:32:49
87.   Jon Weisman
It's one unwritten rule, and it's actually very written since I've had to mention many, many times here.
2007-11-16 14:33:23
88.   FirstMohican
By the way, why would Colletti tell the media that another GM got cold feet considering that GM has something he wants and will probably have to work with him in the future? Seems like he gets upset easily.
2007-11-16 14:34:19
89.   El Lay Dave
80 Is that meta-Rule 13?
2007-11-16 14:36:40
90.   blue22
80 - Duly noted.
2007-11-16 14:39:01
91.   Blaine
73 That seemed to work with one Barry Bonds. But it did not work quite so well with Barry Bonnell.
2007-11-16 14:47:31
92.   kinbote
Can someone ask the magic 8-ball if Bedard was the intended target of this mystery trade?
2007-11-16 14:48:52
93.   jasonungar07
"Joe and I are very encouraged and confident that this group along with Don Mattingly and Larry Bowa will comprise a tremendous staff," general manager Ned Colletti said on a conference call. "We've got a lot of work ahead of us, especially with the younger players".

Why cant he just say we have alot of work a head of us???

2007-11-16 14:50:43
94.   fanerman
93 Because he's a talker and he likes his stereotypes?
2007-11-16 14:53:07
95.   Kevin Lewis
93

It's tough love. You never want the kids to know how much you truly care about them. That way they will keep vying for your affection.

2007-11-16 14:53:39
96.   jasonungar07
"Predictably the cost is high. It far exceeds the value of one player. We're not talking one or two prospects, but three or four prospects,'' said Colletti, who did not mention Cabrera or even acknowledge talking to the Marlins.

Florida is believed to have asked the Dodgers for four players from a group that includes pitcher Chad Billingsley, pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw, third baseman Andy La Roche, first baseman James Loney and outfielder Matt Kemp.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2007/11/16/1116cabrera.html

2007-11-16 14:53:41
97.   bhsportsguy
93 Again, if taken for what is said, its a fair comment.

If you want to throw gasoline on the kids vs. vet thing, than I guess you have to wonder about it.

But I think it is a fair thing to say.

2007-11-16 14:56:19
98.   bhsportsguy
96 I think the story is going no where unless Florida really lowers their expectations. But now, since they have put their "demands" out there, the best thing for them may be to sign Cabrera for one more year and try to deal him at the deadline.
2007-11-16 14:58:07
99.   jasonungar07
or just maybe he belives it?
2007-11-16 15:03:58
100.   Greg Brock
I'd say most of the work needs to be directed at the veterans that got smoked by the young kids' performances.

The young kids just need to be left alone.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-11-16 15:04:25
101.   Jon Weisman
93/97 - I think it's become a mantra. I think he perceives this as good PR, to say the young players need a lot of work. It may or may not be true, and it certainly may betray no intention of trading them, but I certainly think he's conscious of the emphasis.

I think Ned thinks saying that the young players need work is the opposite of alienating. I think he almost approaches it as a marketing campaign.

2007-11-16 15:04:43
102.   bhsportsguy
Do people honestly believe that aside from having them play, the younger players could not benefit by more experience and coaching.

And I am not excluding the Kents and Furcals of the world from this comment but I think it is fair to say that younger players can use some instruction, plain and simple.

Unless we are back to the world of no managers and coaches in baseball.

2007-11-16 15:05:18
103.   jasonungar07
97 I knew you were gonna say that. But it's not me throwing the gasoline, it's him. Considering what happened in the press at the end of the year. He simply should have said, as an orginization we have alot of work to do. Sorry if you feel I am splitting hairs but I belive I am right. It's a subversive feeling created by him when it does not need to be that way.
2007-11-16 15:07:23
104.   ToyCannon
On Nov 7th the Cardinals offered Scott Rolen for Andy Laroche straight up – Ned Declined
On Nov 8th the Cardinals offered Scott Rolen for Andy Laroche and they would pay 2 Millon per year of Rolen's salary – Ned Declined
On Nov 11th the Cardinals offered Scott Rolen for Andy Laroche and they would pay 5 Millon per year of Rolen's salary – Ned Declined
On Nov 13th the Cardinals offered Scott Rolen for Andy Laroche and they would pay 10 Millon per year of Rolen's salary – Ned Declined
On Nov 14th the Cardinals offered Scott Rolen for Andy Laroche and they would pay all of Rolen's salary – Ned Declined
On Nov 16th the Cardinals offered Scott Rolen for Andy Laroche and they would pay all of Rolen's salary and throw in Jim Edmunds – Ned Declined

Andy LaRoche now has an OPS of 1.299 in 33 plate appearances. Best of all, his back is holding up during this grueling trip. If he can travel to Taipei and his back can handle the load, then I think the marketing department needs to bring in a new van muralist.

All of this is fiction, please don't get goofy over fiction. Well not all is fiction. He does indeed have an OPS of 1.299. And his name is Andy LaRoche. And the scouting dept is indeed slackjawed over his TeamUSA performance. Logan White was seen doing a jig the other night. Well, that is fiction. He was doing a jig but no one saw it.

2007-11-16 15:07:32
105.   jasonungar07
Everyone needs work. Does Nomar need help in learning how to hit again? Yes. Does Penny need help in maybe getting thru the whole season in top form? Yes. Does Jeff Kent need help running the bases? Yes. Does Matt Kemp need help in the OF? Yes. Does....and it goes on and on. That's all I am saying.
2007-11-16 15:11:14
106.   dzzrtRatt
I love how Colletti describes all of the coaches as "hand-picked."

You mean, as opposed to the random-digit dialing method of choosing coaches?

Does that mean Torre and Ned squeezed their heads to see which ones were ripe?

2007-11-16 15:12:29
107.   bhsportsguy
101 I think there is something to that, especially if the Dodgers end up making no moves. That will not play well in the local media as they will see the Torre signing as just cover.

Do I care what Simers and Plaschke think, no and the 3.8 million who somehow get tickets don't mind either but that is how it will be told through the media.

2007-11-16 15:13:13
108.   Jon Weisman
102 - No, no one believes that - and I think that's been made clear. I think it's also clear that the older players could benefit from more coaching and maturation. And I think it's clear that from a personality standpoint, the older players are getting a free ride.

The response people are having to these comments is not out of nowhere, and it's not irrational. No one, short of D4P perhaps, is saying get rid of all the coaches and managers. They're saying be fair.

2007-11-16 15:13:27
109.   Bob Timmermann
106
Some baseball coaches are bred in giant agribusiness concerns. Like dairy cattle injected with bovine growth hormone.
2007-11-16 15:16:32
110.   D4P
109
Maybe we should start buying our coaches from WholeFoods.
2007-11-16 15:16:44
111.   Greg Brock
108 Actually, a lot of people are saying, "Stop talking, Ned."

Just stop talking. Get to work. You're not saying anything worth anything, so zip it. Stop talking about young players, stop speaking in platitudes about your coaches.

Just stop.

2007-11-16 15:17:35
112.   ToyCannon
105
It is not just Ned who says these things about youngsters. It is pervasive in all professional sports. Why rail against Ned? He didn't make up this way of talking about the young.
It is not like he is a Depo and can create an original thought. And I can say that because I didn't kneel before the Depo deity. Will I did, but it only lasted 9 months.
2007-11-16 15:18:56
113.   D4P
111
In Ned's possible defense, there's a chance that he's being asked to say something by media types, and that he's not seeking out the media himself in order to say something unsolicited.
2007-11-16 15:19:59
114.   bhsportsguy
111 Aside from talking, what do people do in any professional sports front office?

Seriously, unless Ned is helping with the remodeling of the concourses at Dodger Stadium, I think what he does most, is talk. And that pretty much goes for the other 29 men who have the same job.

2007-11-16 15:21:12
115.   Greg Brock
113 Yes, but it's always about the young kids.

"I'm going to the store to buy some eggs, and the kids need to mature."

2007-11-16 15:21:12
116.   dzzrtRatt
101 I think Jon's right. And I think this is in response to the comments the FO staff reads here and on ITD.

I think Josh has trained Ned to say "...for the young players" "...to help the young players," "...especially the young players" like a mantra, to counter the perception that he and Joe are hot to get rid of the young players. Rowand's agent saying the Dodgers were interested in a veteran team might or might not be true, but it is not what the Dodgers are trying to convey in a PR sense right now. Just the opposite.

I jumped in early on ITD's thread today to underscore that Kemp, Loney and Billingsley are not prospects and shouldn't be described that way. I got a bunch of amens from other commenters. Not to take credit for anything that was said today by Ned and Joe, but after the press conference (which I wasn't aware of), Josh updated his post to say, specifically, that Ned doesn't regard these young players as prospects and had said so during the p.c. I'm listening to it now, and it does seem that everyone got the talking points to reinforce that the young players are the focus.

For Ned, the plan to stick with the kids might be like New Year's resolutions, who knows? But is Ned aware of the perception and the concern? Yes, clearly he is, thanks to the blogosphere.

2007-11-16 15:21:23
117.   bhsportsguy
For Bob, and consider the source since its an USC alum and beat writer, Charlie Weis offered to resign and was turned down by the powers that be.
2007-11-16 15:22:38
118.   Jon Weisman
113 - That relates to what I was saying in 101 . I think Ned has gotten the idea that this is a good thing - and nothing the mainstream media is doing is going to disuade him from that.

Given all that, yes, we can all just nod and accept it, or we can be annoyed by it. Since I don't perceive Ned to be immune from mainstream media influence, I choose to be annoyed by it.

2007-11-16 15:23:16
119.   bhsportsguy
116 I think front office staff translates to occasionally Josh and some guys in sales.
2007-11-16 15:24:03
120.   D4P
115
Good point. I didn't really want to be right anyway.
2007-11-16 15:25:27
121.   ToyCannon
I understood they weren't interested in his resignation as much as they were in using him to feed the parish for thanksgiving. A stuffed Weis will go a long way toward saving a few Turkeys.
2007-11-16 15:27:49
122.   jasonungar07
There is a new article at MLB.com with more info and full quotes.
2007-11-16 15:28:02
123.   Jon Weisman
116 - I think it's safe to say that the young players, after hearing their effort and maturity questioned for six months, will be trying to show that they are better than that. Any who don't, of course, can still survive if they hit the crap out of the ball.

But it still raises the question of whether next year, we'll have to keep reading about Kemp's baserunning mistakes but not about Kent's, and whether Garciaparra's profesionalism will be more important than LaRoche's power.

I agree with those, by the way, who have said that Garciaparra is currently the starting third baseman, not Andy.

2007-11-16 15:28:03
124.   Bob Timmermann
117
Notre Dame can't get rid of Charlie Weis because his teams will always have a decided schematic advantage.
2007-11-16 15:28:28
125.   KG16
Part of Ned's job, as GM is to talk. The problem is that he needs to get a better set of talking points. Rather than saying stuff like, "the kids need to improve/mature"; he needs to say things like, "we have a great core of young talent, they are improving, but not quite there yet."

Message discipline is worthless if the message is the wrong one. Right now, Ned has the wrong message.

2007-11-16 15:30:36
126.   bhsportsguy
124 I guess if Stanford beats Notre Dame this year, Jim Harbaugh should get a 10 year extension.
2007-11-16 15:31:21
127.   D4P
I agree with those, by the way, who have said that Garciaparra is currently the starting third baseman, not Andy

I hold that truth to be self-evident.

2007-11-16 15:33:12
128.   MJW101
White Sox are fed up with Crede and Bora$$. They have a second year player ready to take over 3b. Ned could trade Pierre (WS love speedy OFers), $$$$$ and Orenduff to the White Sox for Crede and then let him go/offer arb after 08.

This satisfies Ned's lust for a DEAL while protecting LaRoche for a mid-08 starting job. Crede is not great, but may be a decent (in Ned's mind) placeholder (along with Nomar) for the first half of 08 or until LaRoche breaks down the door ala Loney/Kemp.

The trick is to distract Ned from the expensive gaudy baubles (Cabrera & Rowand) with disposable tinsel (Crede).

2007-11-16 15:33:45
129.   bigcpa
Part of the appeal of acquiring Miggy would be to hear the Nomar damage control at the press conference. It was hard enough for them to backpedal on Izturis when Furcal was signed.
2007-11-16 15:34:05
130.   D4P
From the new article:

While the Dodgers would prefer to deal Juan Pierre or Andre Ethier

2007-11-16 15:35:59
131.   Jon Weisman
When A-Rod was still a possibility, I kept meaning to do a post on how surreal it would be for A-Rod to have Nomar as a backup. Perhaps appropriately, I kept forgetting to do it.
2007-11-16 15:36:40
132.   Greg Brock
Why wouldn't Nomar start next year? It's not like his OPS+ was 78 or anything.

Wait...It was, you say! Wow, that's terrible!

2007-11-16 15:37:53
133.   dzzrtRatt
130 First chunk of the Berlin Wall!
2007-11-16 15:39:15
134.   dzzrtRatt
From the press conference, you definitely get the idea that Ned isn't hopeful about getting Cabrera. Or at least that's how he wants Florida to think.
2007-11-16 15:41:27
135.   jasonungar07
See he can do it if he tries:

Still, Bonds' options might be few and far between. No. 25 might never play again, despite 762 career homers to his name.

"I don't have any thoughts at all," said Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti, who previously worked as assistant GM in San Francisco

2007-11-16 15:42:25
136.   Greg Brock
135 That's a quote I can really believe.
2007-11-16 15:43:44
137.   bigcpa
130 I emailed Gurnick to see if that's just his own speculation.
2007-11-16 15:44:02
138.   Kevin Lewis
Did anyone else get a letter from Jamie McCourt today? It talked about supporting the team with ticket plans and new fan forums and meetings to gauge how to make the stadium experience better.
2007-11-16 15:44:26
139.   jasonungar07
131 We should try to trade Nomar to the Yankees for Wilson. Then the Yankees can trade for tejada and then the circle will be complete.
2007-11-16 15:46:19
140.   D4P
meetings to gauge how to make the stadium experience better

There's that word again.

2007-11-16 15:46:29
141.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, a use for Pitch FX.

Takashi Saito throwing fastballs last year.

http://tinyurl.com/2cerr7

You can play around with it here:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/web-based-pitchf-x-tool/

2007-11-16 15:47:16
142.   KG16
139 - I did that once in dynasty mode on the old EA Sports MLB game. Or maybe I had Soriano instead of Tejada. IIRC, it was somewhere around this season on the dynasty mode, and it didn't work out too well.
2007-11-16 15:56:19
143.   Dodgers49
126 I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Stanford beat Notre Dame. Notre Dame's best chance for a second win this season will come against Duke. If they lose that game then maybe Weis should resign.
2007-11-16 15:59:14
144.   Bob Timmermann
143
Stanford should beat Notre Dame as long as they don't have to play a fourth string quarterback who has three names.
2007-11-16 15:59:45
145.   Jacob L
Not only is ND 1-9, they are 1-9 against what may be the weakest schedule in ND history. I had no clue, until today, that they were playing Duke.
2007-11-16 16:00:31
146.   Kevin Lewis
140

I thought about using bold type or putting it in quotes, but I knew someone would see it.

2007-11-16 16:04:10
147.   Ken Noe
130 My heart just skipped a beat.
2007-11-16 16:07:14
148.   Ken Noe
Almost trading for JP might give a GM cold feet. Pure speculation but it makes me happy.
2007-11-16 16:11:43
149.   MikeB
If Ned is now heading in the direction of signing a free agent CF, and perhaps leaving 3B to a Nomar/La Roche combo, which of the three CF's (Rowand, Hunter, Jones) is the ideal fit for the home team? Is there a consensus yet?
2007-11-16 16:16:07
150.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-11-16 16:17:01
151.   El Lay Dave
Nice Torre quote in the new Gurnick article cited above:

"Right now, we're looking to see what we can do offensively," he said. "And any time you can add quality pitching to your staff, you do it. I don't know if there are any gaping holes from what I've heard. I'm more familiar with the names of our guys, the Kemps and [Andy] LaRoches and Loneys."

(Please forgive the guy the use of the plural names.)

2007-11-16 16:59:59
152.   derek22
143 im going to the stanford vs notre dame game.

im not a fan of either but was invited.

2007-11-16 17:02:35
153.   derek22
149
i think there is no argument that Andruw Jones is by far the best CF available...he had one bad year, and may be a risk, but he has the most talent easily.
2007-11-16 17:09:22
154.   derek22
I am getting the feeling that Ned is willing to trade prospects only, and as stated earlier, the guys getting asked about are big leaguers...let us pray for this

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.