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Starting Pitchers (5)
$12,300,000 Hiroki Kuroda
$10,000,000 Derek Lowe
$9,500,000 Brad Penny
$7,000,000 Esteban Loaiza
*$500,000 Chad Billingsley
Total: $39,300,000

Bullpen (6)
$2,000,000 Takashi Saito
$1,925,000 Joe Beimel
$1,125,000 Scott Proctor
*$500,000 Jonathan Broxton
$500,000 Chan Ho Park
*$400,000 Hong-Chih Kuo
Total: $6,450,000

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$13,000,000 Rafael Furcal
$9,000,000 Jeff Kent
$8,500,000 Nomar Garciaparra
$8,000,000 Juan Pierre
$500,000 Russell Martin
*$400,000 James Loney
*$400,000 Matt Kemp
Total: $53,900,000

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$875,000 Gary Bennett
$600,000 Mark Sweeney
$424,500 Andre Ethier
$391,000 Delwyn Young
$390,000 Chin-Lung Hu
$390,000 Blake DeWitt
Total: $3,071,000

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$12,000,000 Jason Schmidt
*$400,000 Tony Abreu
*$390,000 Andy LaRoche
Total: $12,790,000

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$1,000,000 Brett Tomko
$750,000 Odalis Perez
$540,000 Yhency Brazoban
$500,000 Randy Wolf
$487,500 Jason Repko
$135,225 Rudy Seanez
$100,000 Mike Lieberthal
$50,000 Ramon Martinez
Total: $3,562,725

Working total: *$113,268,725

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Amok
2007-12-14 08:25
by Jon Weisman

The irresponsible publication Thursday morning of names falsely linked to the Mitchell Report, in my view, is directly connected to the casual, all-in-good-fun passing along of rumors during the Hot Stove League.

A media culture that sets a standard of "someone else said it, so it doesn't matter if it's true" when the stakes are low is primed to have some of its members make the same mistake when the stakes are high. And so it went Thursday.

Dan Caesar of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch writes about it this morning, although you almost get the sense that he thinks it's only a TV-radio problem. Instead, it's pervasive.

Cheating the truth to grow your audience is wrong. (And it's not as if I haven't ever made the mistake.)

* * *

Mark Whicker of the Register takes the unpopular view regarding the Mitchell Report. I think it's worth a read, even if you don't agree.

* * *

Back to your regularly unscheduled Dodger news soon, I hope ...

Advertisement
Comments (167)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-12-14 08:44:05
1.   bhsportsguy
I agree.
2007-12-14 08:49:32
2.   Andrew Shimmin
And it's time for WNBC to burn its sources, so everybody knows where they got it.
2007-12-14 08:51:12
3.   Eric Stephen
Another annoyance of the Mitchell Report is that when searching for hot stove news (actual news, mind you!) I have to use a machete to wade through the jungle of steroid news on local paper sites, MLB.com, etc
2007-12-14 08:51:44
4.   Gilberto Reyes
Someone at WNBC or CNBC owes a lot of apologies to Nomar, Pujols, Varitek, etc. For NBC to post that list without verifying the source was careless and negligent.
2007-12-14 08:52:52
5.   Sushirabbit
I've nearly bitten my tongue in half. Can we talk about something pleasant, like Juan Pierre?
2007-12-14 08:53:17
6.   Gilberto Reyes
4 I am in total agreement. Make the sources accountable!
2007-12-14 08:54:48
7.   Eric Stephen
4
Now that's an obscure ex-Dodger. Nice screen name. If that's your real name, I apologize for trivializing it.
2007-12-14 08:57:45
8.   Jon Weisman
7 - German Rivera is still available.

Update to this post above.

2007-12-14 08:57:53
9.   Sagehen
5 At least he who must not be named was not on the list.
2007-12-14 08:58:40
10.   Marty
I'm way too morally compromised to pass judgment on any of this. But as an observer of the Human Comedy this chapter has certainly been interesting.
2007-12-14 09:01:13
11.   Bob Timmermann
I can't say the St. Louis newspapers (or really newspaper) and the TV and radio stations there have the greatest relationship.
2007-12-14 09:04:06
12.   Jon Weisman
11 - But you could say someone else said it :)
2007-12-14 09:06:53
13.   Bob Timmermann
12
OK, Dan Caesar said it.
2007-12-14 09:09:45
14.   bhsportsguy
11 Are they still bitter (they being the public) about the Cardinals' switching radio stations?
2007-12-14 09:10:02
15.   Marty
The only connection I have in any of this is Hundley. His daughter and a friend of mines daughter hung out together and I would occasionally see Hundley pick her up at my friend's house. He didn't leave any syringes laying around but he did leave a lot of cigarette butts.
2007-12-14 09:11:16
16.   Andrew Shimmin
5- I was thinking of redoubling my "maybe HGH isn't really so bad" efforts; sound good? I've got a whole cortisone spiel worked out, which is, I think, pretty killer. . .
2007-12-14 09:12:27
17.   Bob Timmermann
It's official.

The Mitchell Report has fallen into the hands of library catalogers:

http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/183713296

2007-12-14 09:14:37
18.   jasonungar07
10 lol
2007-12-14 09:20:41
19.   LogikReader
Am I wrong to not be taking this seriously?

There's probably nothing to worry about: by Monday night we'll be talking about Juan Pierre just like the old days.

2007-12-14 09:25:07
20.   Bob Timmermann
In other news, UCLA is going to interview Jim Harbaugh's older brother, John, for its football coach position.
2007-12-14 09:26:53
21.   D4P
20
Is the father of the two brothers named Zebedee by any chance...?
2007-12-14 09:28:20
22.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
What, no mention of Plaschke turning on his former BFF, Lo Duca?
2007-12-14 09:29:14
23.   Andrew Shimmin
22- It was in the last thread.
2007-12-14 09:30:20
24.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Ah.
2007-12-14 09:31:47
25.   MC Safety
Sorry for implicating Nomah in the last thread, I was clearly going off the first list. Back to the drawing board I guess. Im trying Andy!
2007-12-14 09:31:47
26.   bhsportsguy
20 Along with Rick "Its only an office pool" Neuheisel and Norm Chow. Reportedly they are being interviewed today (Rick) and tomorrow (Norm).
2007-12-14 09:34:26
27.   Bob Timmermann
26
I will use you as my guide to judge the feelings of the UCLA messageboards.

My initial guess is:
They hate all the candidates.

2007-12-14 09:35:47
28.   jasonungar07
Has Kuroda's plane landed yet? Jeeze it's been a really long flight..

No this is in the Rocky Mountain News (Tracy Ringolsby)

Overheard

* Japanese right-hander Hiroki Kuroda canceled a scheduled visit to the United States because he decided to sign with the Dodgers. He also was being pursued by Seattle, Arizona and Kansas City. Dodgers closer Takashi Saito is believed to have helped sway Kuroda to Los Angeles.

2007-12-14 09:36:49
29.   Benaiah
22 - "The sour history that was Paul Depodesta's reign maybe have to be rewritten."

I hate Bill Plaschke. Sour history? Are you freaking kidding me?

2007-12-14 09:39:21
30.   Disabled List
I saw the WNBC list off of a link that appeared in the DT thread yesterday. As I was looking at it, I got a phone call from a friend of mine saying, "I heard Clemens is on the list!" I responded by saying I had some sort of leaked list right in front of me, and I proceeded to rattle off the names: Pujols, Nomar, Kile, Varitek, etc.

As I was reading off some of the names, a number of people in my office who had overheard me immediately gathered around my desk. In less than 60 seconds, more than a dozen people were standing nearby, excitedly chattering about the names on my computer. There was a warning on the WNBC site that said MLB sources were disputing some of the names on the list, and to my credit, I mentioned that. But nobody was really paying attention to that part. So, thanks to me, a lot of the people in my office, as well as the friend who called me, went most of the day thinking that Albert Pujols (among others) was officially a steroids cheat.

I'm a little bit embarrassed and upset about this. I spread defamatory lies about people simply because, well, I'm a gossip, and because WNBC gave me completely fabricated and uncorroborated information. I'm angry at myself, and I'm angry at WNBC.

WNBC has a one paragraph retraction and apology up on their website, but that's not good enough. Journalists only have an obligation to protect their sources so long as their sources are telling the truth. That list was given to WNBC either by a complete charlatan, or somebody with an axe to grind. Either way, that person is not deserving of WNBC's protection, and should be revealed as a public service, under the auspice of exposing purveyors of misinformation. This would give WNBC a chance to at least fix their lousy work with some good journalism. I'm not gonna hold my breath, though.

Hot stove rumors can be fun and engaging. Rumors like this, on the other hand, are damaging and hurtful. The rush to be first was more important than the obligation to be right. I'm just as guilty as WNBC in this regard, but then again, I don't hold the public trust of a news gathering organization.

This whole episode has left me feeling pretty lousy today. I'm going to turn this post into a letter and send it to WNBC. Hopefully that will make me feel better, but I doubt it.

2007-12-14 09:41:06
31.   bhsportsguy
27 Actually, they don't hate everyone. Some are pulling for the Norm Chow/Walker combo, others, Rick, still many are wondering why Chris Peterson won't leave Boise and if Leach is just too crazy to consider.

Mostly its still hopeful since KD is gone.

2007-12-14 09:41:14
32.   Lexinthedena
I know we're not suppose to talk politics here, and it's a good rule...but since we are making parallels, the media has set precident with passing along rumors, and the stakes have been much higher. I believe that there is as much a connection with the reporting of the WMD's etc. as there is with the Hot Stove irreverence.
2007-12-14 09:42:36
33.   Kayaker7
As one who has openly suspected Gagne of steroid use, I feel a bit vindicated...though it doesn't make me feel too good that a Dodger player's accomplishments have become a sham. As for Pujols...yeah he was not named in the report, but I'm sure there are many who used who were not named. Many professional bodybuilders in the Southern California drive to Tijuana to purchase drugs. No paper trail.

I still suspect him. That's just me. You guys can rightly condemn me for speculating without solid evidence...

As for Lo Duca, I recall wondering about him, when he suddenly had that power surge...but I didn't think the transformation was quite as dramatic as Gagne's. Plus, I wanted to believe the feel-good story...

2007-12-14 09:43:20
34.   capdodger
16 Cotisone is for old people, not athletes.
2007-12-14 09:43:24
35.   Wilbert Robinson
32 I believe that there is as much a connection with the reporting of the WMD's etc. as there is with the Hot Stove irreverence.

Are you trying to say that we're trading Matt Kemp to Iraq now?

2007-12-14 09:43:52
36.   capdodger
So is Cortisone.
2007-12-14 09:47:38
37.   alnyden
The big news from yesterday is that it turns out two Dodger heroes were cheaters. Gagne's 80 game streak is just as tainted as Bond's home run records. The "Heart and Soul" of the clubhouse was a drug pusher. This depresses me to no end. This is not ancient history, this happened three years ago.

Baseball needs to retain some measure of innocence for me to love this game. The next time someone like Gange comes along and does something extraordinary, we are less likely to be amazed and more likely to be wondering what he's taking.

I think our outrage would be better served on our fallen heroes rather than some internet rumors. I know it still took talent and drive to accomplish what they did, but I can't say I will ever think of Gagne or La Duca in the same way.

2007-12-14 09:49:08
38.   das411
But Jon! There is even better, dare i say TERRIFIC news today:

"The National Championship contest will be the fifth in program history for the Nittany Lions, as they also advanced in 1993, 1997, 1998 and 1999, clinching the title in 1999. Penn State improves to 53-25 in the NCAA Tournament and is one of two teams - with the other being the Cardinal[s] - to appear in every postseason event since its inception in 1981."

2007-12-14 09:49:15
39.   D4P
Baseball needs to retain some measure of innocence for me to love this game

You're out of luck. Players do illegal stuff, a lot of them are jerks, and many/most play primarily for the money.

That's just the way it is. If you want saints and angels, look elsewhere.

2007-12-14 09:50:13
40.   GiantturnedDodger
22 29

It is obvious that you are probably right.

2007-12-14 09:51:04
41.   capdodger
39 If you want saints and angels, look elsewhere.

I hear there's a presidential race on right now.

2007-12-14 09:51:38
42.   kinbote
28 The Mariners' home page basically states we've agreed to a 3y/$33m contract with Kuroda with only a physical in the way. A deal could be announced today. (I don't have time to post the link--I got it via the Dodger message board.)
2007-12-14 09:53:29
43.   jasonungar07
I wonder why I am the type of person who cares less about all this. I am a new dad and I would never want my kid on Steroids.

But yet no offense alnyden (certainly not singling you out) I am nowhere close to being depressed to no end and I am huge fan of baseball. I have my Game Over shirt etc...

2007-12-14 09:54:50
44.   GoBears
Mark Whicker of the Register takes the unpopular view regarding the Mitchell Report.

Actually, it looks to me like this is the POPULAR view. Once Clemens and Pettitte showed up, ESPN has been falling all over themselves to slam the report, its process, and the naming of names.

If there had been no Yankee stars, I imagine ESPN would be much less skeptical.

I'm not saying it's wrong to be skeptical. Just that it seems to be the popular way to go.

2007-12-14 09:56:56
45.   Andrew Shimmin
34- http://tinyurl.com/2vccpr
2007-12-14 09:58:04
46.   Kayaker7
I don't agree with Whicker. He basically applies a legal standard of "innocent until proven guilty." I don't see the purpose of this report to convict people with such airtight legal cases. If you apply that sort of a standard, then you'd have to disregard 99% of investigative reporting.

Marion Jones flatly denied drug use, until her recent mea culpa. Athletes like Clemens will continue to deny, knowing that they'll be able to hide behind the fact that they'll never be prosecuted and convicted.

2007-12-14 09:58:54
47.   Sam DC
44 ESPN had its major takedown of the process used to generate the report -- Howard Bryant's piece that I excerpted and linked here -- up Wednesday night. Maybe they already had the names, although I doubt they would have sat on the names if they had them.
2007-12-14 10:00:26
48.   D4P
In my view, being in the report doesn't prove a player's guilt. It does, however, mean (for me) that the probability of their guilt is greater than 0.5.
2007-12-14 10:01:28
49.   D4P
The irony of ESPN's position is that they probably use many of the same tactics in reporting their trade rumors and such, which is relevant to the content of Jon's post.
2007-12-14 10:01:39
50.   Bulldog1988
I wonder when this report is going to hit the local bookstore in print. It seems that lately all these reports end up being published. And if it has hit the library catalog people it is only a matter of time.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-12-14 10:01:44
51.   Jon Weisman
"Dodgers catcher Russell Martin was named winner of the 2007 Tip O'Neill Award presented annually by the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame to the Canadian player judged to have excelled in individual achievement and team contribution, while adhering to baseball's highest ideals."

Bob can educate you on the Tipster.

2007-12-14 10:02:31
52.   MC Safety
33 The thing is, now anyone with suspicious HR numbers can be fingered. The media keeps shoving PED's and Baseball down our throats to where I honestly would not put it past anyone. I cant believe other HR hitters with numbers like Barry are clean anymore. These people are ruthless when it comes to fame and fortune.
2007-12-14 10:04:51
53.   LogikReader
If they really wanted to expose players, baseball could have hired TMZ.com to investigate.

Maybe I should take a mini-vacation from DT until this blows over...

2007-12-14 10:05:45
54.   capdodger
45 You're missing the point in 34 . I know they use it. I just don't like it. It allows playing through what ought to be immoblizing swelling and pain.
2007-12-14 10:06:52
55.   madmac
42 http://tinyurl.com/yw63v4
2007-12-14 10:07:35
56.   Bulldog1988
51 Good job Russell.

Now what exactly do they consider baseball's highest ideals?

2007-12-14 10:08:23
57.   Johnson
30 I don't see WNBC burning their source for the bad list. I'm sure they'd like to take some of the heat off of themselves, but I see it going down like this:

1. Bored college kid makes a list based on what's already out there and sprinkles in some big names - notably Pujols but NOT A-Rod (remember, we're in NYC here).

2. Bored college kid calls up WNBC the morning of the release, claims to be a low-level employee of the Yankees/Mets and that he found a copy of the report.

3. WNBC, in a rush to beat everybody else to the punch, and only having 2-3 hours before the official release, jumps on the "insider info" without having an opportunity to verify anything.

Now, if that's the way it went, and you're WNBC, are you going to burn your source? No. Saying "Sorry, this is a huge story and we published libelious and flat out wrong information on the basis of a source that was previously unknown to us and turned out to be a complete and total fraud, but, hey, we're still a paragon of journalistic excellence!" is far far worse than just keeping mum and letting people think you were burned by a trustworthy source with an agenda, or even better, just having people forget it ever happened.

I could be wrong - maybe WNBC did have a truly trusted source that had given them good info in the past - but if it's anything like my speculation there will be no source-burning.

2007-12-14 10:11:32
58.   Kayaker7
52 That's true. But, if MLB had a tougher drug policy, you'd be able to enjoy outstanding performance without wondering.

One name on the list that brought back old suspicions was Brady Anderson. What a flukey year he had in 96.

2007-12-14 10:11:33
59.   Andrew Shimmin
54- I see. I'm glad you said that, because now the argument makes sense to me. You think baseball should hurt. That that's part of the deal not because medicine hasn't advanced sufficiently to end that, but that it really ought to be part of the deal. It's consistent; I'm not persuaded at all by it, but at least I get it now. I don't think there's any great honor in injury. It's not shameful (the reason I think J.D. Drew often gets a raw deal), but it's not a morally important aspect of the game.

I think medicine is good. I think that drugs used to produce better than natural results are problematic, but that drugs used to preserve or restore natural ability are peachy.

2007-12-14 10:15:11
60.   Jon Weisman
38 - We need this one. How else will we get to make the C in Cardinal yellow like UCLA's?
2007-12-14 10:15:49
61.   scareduck
Whicker, for the record, has the most intelligent commentary I have read so far.
2007-12-14 10:16:10
62.   regfairfield
57 I do think the guy who made the fake list had some inside information, there were names on there like Paxton Crawford and Scott Schonwiess that he wouldn't have come up with on his own.

Though throwing Darryl Kile on the list pretty much ensures his place in hell.

2007-12-14 10:16:27
63.   Eric Stephen
60
Since Stanford already has 50 NCAA championships, they can just make the L yellow for now!
2007-12-14 10:19:56
64.   delias man
This Gagne situation is disappointing and obvious all at the same time. But I just don't understand how HGH can make the curve dance like it did, and the offspeed so very slow. Can anybody correct me on this, because I do not feel like his accomplishments on the mound are any less.
2007-12-14 10:20:22
65.   LogikReader
Question: (I changed my mind, no mini-vacation)

What event was it being referenced in 38 ? There was no link

2007-12-14 10:22:40
66.   KG16
44, 46, 48 - Whicker is applying the wrong legal standard. This is something that's suited to a preponderance of the evidence (civil action) rather than beyond reasonable doubt (criminal action). A preponderance of the evidence means "more likely than not."

Also, what is the due process argument? This is not a trial or investigation conducted by the government, this is a private enterprise hiring private individuals to conduct an investigation.

I don't think the players (on orders from the union) refused to participate because of due process concerns. If that was the sole concern, they could have negotiated something to deal with these due process concerns. They did not because they were trying to protect themselves.

I've moved on to the acceptance stage. I am not happy about all this, but am at least now willing to figure out where we go from here.

2007-12-14 10:23:02
67.   Andrew Shimmin
65- http://live.psu.edu/story/27797
2007-12-14 10:24:58
68.   Eric Stephen
64
Playing devil's advocate (or God's advicoate, I'm not sure which side I'm on)...

The key to the changeup is the difference from the speed of the fastball, with the same arm action. If HGH made Gagne's fastball faster, that would increase the difference between that and his changeup, making the changeup more devastating.

2007-12-14 10:26:35
69.   LogikReader
67

Is this going to be on TV? I want to watch!

What is "nittany" I wonder? A "nittany" lion sounds like a mother lion of some sort. I'll be back in a moment.

2007-12-14 10:27:00
70.   capdodger
59 - It's not so much that it should hurt. It's more that individual players have a distibution of accuired talents and innate attributes. The difference between the two is the former can be taught while the latter cannot. You can move up the talent distribution as far as your underlying abliltes will let you, but you can't change the underlying attribute. I believe the ability to avoid or recover from is an inate. That's why injuries to a player aren't shameful. They aren't (usually) indicative of lack of will or training. They are simply part of who a player is.

Cortisone - I have a special problem with as well: You're body is trying to tell you something by swelling up and refusing to move. Just perhaps you should listen to it.

2007-12-14 10:28:06
71.   LogikReader
69

Ok, I'm back.

Let's hear it for Penn State with the answers:

"...the word comes from a Native American term meaning, 'single mountain.'"

http://www.psu.edu/ur/about/nittany.html

2007-12-14 10:28:43
72.   Kayaker7
64 This is the thesis I've stated before. If you don't have to exert maximum effort, you have much better control. That is why pitchers are much more accurate when they don't over throw. Try drawing a straight line with a death grip on a pencil. Impossible. Gagne's off speed pitches were so effective because he could throw the 98 MPH heater.
2007-12-14 10:29:34
73.   Andrew Shimmin
My body tells me to eat a bucket of bacon for every meal. I tell it to shut up. Usually.
2007-12-14 10:29:43
74.   Disabled List
57 Right on all counts. Which is exactly why I'm expecting that the one paragraph apology/retraction is all we're gonna see in the way of hand-wringing from WNBC.

And the state of American journalism sinks even lower.

2007-12-14 10:31:28
75.   capdodger
73 That's because your genes tell you that this may be the last bucket of bacon you see for the rest of the month. At least until your hunting party kills it's next boar.
2007-12-14 10:33:43
76.   OaklandAs
57 Names like Crawford and Schoeneweis had already come out well before the Mitchell report. Crawford, in particular, had a long confession in the Boston Globe.

What the fake list writer did was include every player who had already been implicated, plus added a few big names on his own. But the inclusion of the obscure guys like Crawford made it look more realistic.

2007-12-14 10:34:33
77.   Andrew Shimmin
Exactly. Stupid genes. There's always more bacon. Pay attention already.
2007-12-14 10:36:47
78.   Andrew Shimmin
And hey, what's it been, a couple million years? Lets get busy on the flying thing, why don't we?
2007-12-14 10:39:35
79.   capdodger
78 We'd need smaller brains and we'd probably lose the opposable thumbs. Besides, skydiving is close enough, right?
2007-12-14 10:43:24
80.   delias man
68,72 So the batters would not be AS off balance if the FB was at 90-92?
2007-12-14 10:46:05
81.   natepurcell
80

Also allows for quicker recovery time from outings and injuries.

2007-12-14 10:46:23
82.   Kayaker7
80 Yup. That's what I'm saying.
2007-12-14 10:46:26
83.   berkowit28
I think medicine is good. I think that drugs used to produce better than natural results are problematic, but that drugs used to preserve or restore natural ability are peachy.

I agree. I find it very hard to discern what exactly is "wrong", "cheating" and so on in using one substance rather than another before such a substance is declared either illegal or against the rules. Once it's against the rules - whether the rules are really rational or not - OK, it's wrong to use the substance. But all these players being condemned for using HGH before it was declared out of bounds - I find that a bit hard to take.

What if it turns out that large amounts of Vitamin E aid athletic performance? Is it then wrong to take Vitamin E by injection (if that is possible, for the sake of argument)? How about eating large amounts of natural foods that contain Vitamin E? Would it be cheating to do either of these before MLB declared it improper? So where would you draw the line between that and a good diet? Where do you draw the line between taking HGH before it was declared off-limits and taking lots of vitamins? How about taking prescribed drugs helping recovery from Tommy John surgery?

2007-12-14 10:48:03
84.   ToyCannon
I understand what Capdodger is saying. The shot is going to allow the player to play through a condition that he probably shouldn't until they address the issue of why the swelling was occuring in the 1st place.
For anyone who has ever had a cortisone shot it is not a pleasant experience. This is not really a shot as it is a sharp tube shoved into the appropiate area with the cream forcibly shoved into you. One must be in a lot of pain in the 1st place to subject themselves to such a procedure. At least that is how it has been explained to me.
2007-12-14 10:49:02
85.   berkowit28
83 Sorry - I forgot to indicate I was quoting 59 as the first paragraph in bold.
2007-12-14 10:52:32
86.   Disabled List
Fire Joe Morgan has been in rare form the last couple of days.
2007-12-14 10:54:51
87.   D4P
Regarding hearsay: I don't see much incentive on the part of trainers to lie about injecting players. If they're not gonna tell the truth, they're not gonna tell anything in the first place. You unnecessarily subject yourself to serious trouble by lying about such things.
2007-12-14 10:56:31
88.   ToyCannon
79
Can't we have it all. I read about humans flying around with backpacks 40 some odd years ago. When are you brainiacs going to make some progress on that front. I'll be pretty ticked off if the day I die they finally get that thing off the ground so that those of us who can afford to, can fly one. The rest of you can eat cake.

Not that it will be any fun, since by that time the goverment would require that I wear a bubble suit so that I can't hurt myself and cause pain to those bystanders who get upset if my brain spills onto their boots.

2007-12-14 10:57:18
89.   Bulldog1988
84 Cortisone shots aren't that bad Toy. I've had them and if the right doctor does it there is very little pain. My orthopedist used a local to numb the area then used the smallest guage needle he could get away with using. Mind you I had this done on the bottom of both of my feet, not the most pleasant spot for cortisone although I'm sure someone will think of worse.
2007-12-14 11:01:08
90.   D4P
I did something very strange and very bad to my neck/shoulder back in 1998. I was in constant pain and did not sleep for 3 days. I then got a cortizone shot, and the pain went away never to return.
2007-12-14 11:02:58
91.   Marty
I've had two cortisone shots in my back and both were pain-free. I would happily be a spokesman for the cortisone industry.
2007-12-14 11:04:03
92.   Kayaker7
90 Cortisone shrinks swelling. So, if your pain was due to swollen tissue that was causing impingement, then reduced swelling is the solution. In some cases, it supposedly even dissolves scar tissue. The only bad thing is, with repeated use, it damages articular cartilage.
2007-12-14 11:04:24
93.   delias man