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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Smiles, Everyone, Smiles
2007-12-14 12:43
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Time to turn those frowns upside down!

I don't remember this Wheaties ad with Ron Cey so well, but I do vividly remember the Gillette Foamy ad that comes after.

Also, I recognize the catcher behind Cey - I think he guested on Hill Street Blues among other shows - but I'm blanking on the name.

(And, of course, there's Chocolate Thunder!)

Steve and Cyndy Garvey, during happier times - no doubt because of the soothing presence of Jack LaLanne.

After posting the first two video clips, I thought of the headline for this post, because everyone was so happy. That headline then sent me looking for a clip of Fantasy Island. The one I found features a rather deep philosophical discussion between Roarke and Tattoo. Enjoy!

Update: Ricardo Montalban, Gary Burghoff, Tommy Lasorda, Steve Garvey, Fred Lynn, George Brett - it's all coming together! Can Kuroda throw like that?

Not to mention Leslie Nielsen saying, "Thou hast been found guilty of being servants of Satan!"

Comments (352)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-12-14 12:49:28
1.   Humma Kavula
louis nye!!
2007-12-14 12:50:23
2.   Bob Timmermann
Sorry, still angry.
2007-12-14 12:50:26
3.   KG16
Sometimes, well, most times, I'm glad I missed the 70s and was barely aware of most of the 80s
2007-12-14 12:51:40
4.   old dodger fan
Just makes me want to go buy a box of Wheaties.
2007-12-14 12:53:07
5.   D4P
2
Yeah. My palate is still dirty.
2007-12-14 12:54:23
6.   Josh Wilker
Lord, I'd forgotten about what Darryl Dawkins did before his Gorilla Dunkies.
2007-12-14 12:57:43
7.   Jon Weisman
Why not remain angry in the last thread, but happy in this one? :)
2007-12-14 12:58:19
8.   Humma Kavula
2 How can anybody be angry at Louis Nye?

Oh... you're still angry about that...

2007-12-14 13:06:35
9.   Daniel Zappala
I've never seen an episode of Fantasy Island. Now you've got me stuck wanting to see how this one turns out!
2007-12-14 13:09:03
10.   D4P
I watched an episode of Fantasy Island a few years ago for the first time since I little and found it completely bizarre. There's a lot of sinister undertones and weird stuff going on.
2007-12-14 13:12:14
11.   MikeB
3 Here's what you missed in the '70's. I smile quite a lot remembering that era.

Year League Record Finish/Rank Manager
1979 NL West 79-83 (.488) 3 Tommy Lasorda
1978 NL West 95-67 (.586) NL 1 Tommy Lasorda
1977 NL West 98-64 (.605) NL 1 Tommy Lasorda
1976 NL West 92-70 (.568) 2 Walter Alston and Tommy Lasorda
1975 NL West 88-74 (.543) 2 Walter Alston
1974 NL West 102-60 (.630) NL 1 Walter Alston
1973 NL West 95-66 (.590) 2 Walter Alston
1972 NL West 85-70 (.548) 2 Walter Alston
1971 NL West 89-73 (.549) 2 Walter Alston
1970 NL West 87-74 (.540) 2 Walter Alston

2007-12-14 13:13:07
12.   GiantturnedDodger
I thought I remembered the memorex tag line being 'is it real or is it memorex' as opposed to 'is it live...........'

When ever I see Ricardo I think corinthian leather.

2007-12-14 13:14:03
13.   Marty
Dennis James!
2007-12-14 13:14:27
14.   KG16
11 - I was speaking more generally (mainly the hair, and the clothes), but yes, it was probably a good time to be a Dodger fan.
2007-12-14 13:17:38
15.   Jon Weisman
This was the first of Maureen McCormick's six appearances on Fantasy Island:

http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0566572/filmoseries#tt0077008

Louis Nye is not involved in her story:

http://tinyurl.com/33vg4k

2007-12-14 13:24:57
16.   Jon Weisman
See update above.
2007-12-14 13:25:45
17.   Penarol1916
14. The hair and clothes of the '90's do not hold up at all either, and there has been a ton of ugly, "fashionable" clothes in this decade as well, take non-pleated cordory trousers for instance.
2007-12-14 13:28:22
18.   ToyCannon
Ricardo will forever be branded into my brain as the man who killed Spock.

2
Let it go Bob, quit living in the past.

2007-12-14 13:29:39
19.   D4P
Ricardo will forever be branded into my brain as the man who killed Spock

Kahn was on the juice.

2007-12-14 13:31:23
20.   D4P
Or should I say, "KAHHHNNN!!!"
2007-12-14 13:32:56
21.   MC Safety
Marcia Brady! Wow was she hot. Up until now, I was unaware of this Fantasy Island. Midgets were big back then huh?
2007-12-14 13:34:08
22.   silverwidow
Man, what's taking so long with Kuroda?!?!
2007-12-14 13:35:27
23.   MikeB
18 , 19 , 20 I attended the same college as Ricardo's son, Victor. Victor was in my freshman Spanish class - and of course, he spoke Spanish flawlessly. The teacher, a 40'sh lady, adored Ricardo Montalban, and was thrilled his son was in her class. Victor became her pet pupil. I, on the otherhand, did not have the "edge" of being bi-lingual, and barely passed the class. Back then, I thought how unfair it was that a person could get an A for doing something that he had been taught to do since the day he was born. Now, I prefer to remember how polite and gracious Victor was to that teacher and to the rest of us in that class.
2007-12-14 13:37:22
24.   kinbote
22 Japanese deliveries are often unorthodox and contain hesitations.
2007-12-14 13:39:10
25.   jasonungar07
The Friday night lineup was sweet when I was a kid. It was ice cream night...

-Dukes of Hazzard at 8:00
-Love Boat at 9:00
-Fantasy Island at 10:00 (i'd have to sneak out of my room and watch from the stairs to watch that, along with ba ba blacksheep)

2007-12-14 13:43:58
26.   D4P
25
I remember it well. I think I usually fell asleep during FI.
2007-12-14 13:44:19
27.   Jon Weisman
25 - My memories put Love Boat and Fantasy Island on Saturdays.
2007-12-14 13:44:22
28.   Josh Wilker
25 : I could have sworn that Love Boat and Fantasy Island were Saturday nigt shows. I recall Friday being The Incredible Hulk followed by the Dukes.

Yes, I have drunk deep of life.

2007-12-14 13:49:22
29.   Jon Weisman
Love Boat aired on Saturdays from September 1977 to June 1986. Fridays from June 1986-September 1986.

Fantasy Island was on Saturdays from January 1978 to August 1979, Fridays from August 1979-October 1979, Saturdays from October 1979-August 1984.

But Dukes of Hazzard was always Fridays.

But I bet it was great ice cream :)

2007-12-14 13:50:58
30.   Jon Weisman
By the way, Josh, the "Wow" clip that you can find with my "Update" link above features Ken Berry.
2007-12-14 13:56:02
32.   Jon Weisman
I deleted 31 because I felt it had danger of being misinterpreted negatively.
2007-12-14 13:57:35
33.   Daniel Zappala
I watched none of these shows, except Incredible Hunk once in a while. And I rarely got ice cream. I still managed to have a happy childhood.
2007-12-14 13:59:46
34.   Marty
I did not watch any of those shows. But I was in my 20s so I didn't do a lot of TV watching on Fridays and Saturdays.
2007-12-14 13:59:48
35.   Bob Timmermann
18
OK, not angry. I had a nice sandwich at lunch.
2007-12-14 14:01:22
36.   Wilbert Robinson
35 I'm still angry because my work computer won't show whatever videos are posted in the new post. In fact I wasn't angry before but now I am.
2007-12-14 14:04:20
37.   ToyCannon
The new style of creamery ice cream will be responsible for my early demise. I can still remember listing to George Allen talk about being in great shape but saying he had to have his ice cream everynight. Then he died.

Now he sits on my shoulder and watches while I make my bowl everynight. I'm not sure if he approves or not.

2007-12-14 14:04:30
38.   Bob Timmermann
36
Well, I'm a bit angry because my iPod Nano has taken to freezing up intermittently for no good reason. I like to have a really long playlist (over 1000 songs) and play it straight through over several days.

And I can't do that.

There my anger has been directed somewhere else.

2007-12-14 14:05:37
39.   Bob Timmermann
37
George Allen would disapprove of your method of having the Dodgers become good again. He'd tell you to trade all those prospects. "The future is now!"

Bring back Jack Pardee and Billy Kilmer!

2007-12-14 14:05:41
40.   MikeB
Laugh and be happy!
http://tinyurl.com/yry6se
2007-12-14 14:05:48
41.   Terry A
35 - Mutton, lettuce and tomato?
2007-12-14 14:07:48
42.   ibleedbloo
32 I would have never noticed 31 was missing but you mentioned it and now my mind is running wild with what was there.
2007-12-14 14:09:42
43.   ToyCannon
39
Will I did lobby quite hard for MCAB but he probably would not have been old enough for GA.
2007-12-14 14:11:04
44.   Marty
My Ipod always freezes after about 300 songs when I try that.
2007-12-14 14:11:30
45.   Bob Timmermann
41
Turkey, avocado, and cheddar.
2007-12-14 14:11:56
46.   Marty
Yeah, if anyone loved PVL it was George Allen
2007-12-14 14:12:04
47.   Jon Weisman
Glendon Rusch to the Padres.
2007-12-14 14:12:48
48.   ToyCannon
Don't take this wrong Bob, but I have a hard time picturing you listening to music. Is your Ipod loaded with non-fiction audio books:)
2007-12-14 14:13:27
49.   Daniel Zappala
I can't tell what Bob was mad about in the previous thread. The fact that St. Louis newspapers, TV, and radio don't get along? That the Mitchell report now exists in a library catalog? That UCLA is interviewing a Harbaugh? That Stanford was referred to as the Cardinals? That the volleyball final will be on at an inconvenient time? That TV listings are always given according to EST? That someone shot the last Grizzly in California? That he lost his Audubon membership? That Tulare isn't paying him for his promotion of their county on DT? That the San Diego Union-Tribune likes stories about tuna? Or that some people think the world should be perfect, based on their standards?

Hmm. I'm banking on the EST thing. That and the plight of the grizzlies.

2007-12-14 14:14:58
50.   Kevin Lewis
My iPod Shuffle typically has Wait, Wait and This American Life on it. You can see me strolling the streets of Pasadena, listening to my favorite NPR shows.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-12-14 14:15:13
51.   scareduck
Jack LaLanne. Man, does that bring back memories... I remember watching him when I was a kid. Bally's ate his gyms, if I remember right.

12 - you're close. It was, "Is it live or is it Memorex?"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bkt8Dwzl6Sg

The Maxell guy who had his hair blowing through "Ride of the Valkyries" was way cool, though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DP89iMe0BY

2007-12-14 14:15:49
52.   berkowit28
Thanks for changing the link for P-E (Diamond) blog to the changed URL. It was driving me nuts.
2007-12-14 14:15:56
53.   Humma Kavula
40 I thought for sure that was going to be this:

http://artlung.com/smorgasborg/LaughAndBeHappyRandyNewman.shtml

2007-12-14 14:15:56
54.   scareduck
47 - danke.
2007-12-14 14:16:12
55.   Sam DC
Sigh, Tuvan Throat Singers are so fast forgotten.
2007-12-14 14:17:10
56.   Bob Timmermann
48
I have listened to a grand total of one book ever on an iPod and it was John Hodgman's "Areas of My Expertise" and that was because it was free.
2007-12-14 14:18:10
57.   Daniel Zappala
50 If I had an iPod, it would have the same things as yours. Maybe I should just steal yours.
2007-12-14 14:18:59
58.   Daniel Zappala
50 Of course the problem is that while listening to Wait, Wait, you'd be walking down the street laughing hysterically every few minutes, which would scare away the Chinese neighbors trying to offer you dim sum.
2007-12-14 14:19:13
59.   ToyCannon
I knew the guy who produced the LaLanne show around 80/81. Jack didn't pay well, the guy lived in my apartment building. At the time the whole building was filled with actors/set designers/musicians all from the midwest. By 1985 they had all gone home and started families. Tough business.
2007-12-14 14:20:29
60.   MikeB
53 That works just as well!
2007-12-14 14:20:35
61.   Jon Weisman
52 - Sidebar updates can often take six months. You got lucky :)
2007-12-14 14:20:44
62.   Humma Kavula
56 When I was commuting from Altadena to Culver City -- over an hour each way -- I listened to a lot of audiobooks. The Time Traveler's Wife and The Kite Runner both worked well on audio. Absurdistan, not so much.

Then I moved to the south bay, and now, I listen to:

- music
- The This American Life podcast
- The Savage Love podcast

2007-12-14 14:21:18
63.   Jim Hitchcock
34 I was out chasing girls on Friday and Saturday. Marty, no doubt, was treating his girls to some of the finest dining in SoCal.
2007-12-14 14:22:08
64.   Jim Hitchcock
62 Where did you work in Culver City?
2007-12-14 14:24:23
65.   ToyCannon
63
Marty was head banging at Madame Wongs
2007-12-14 14:25:11
66.   Humma Kavula
64 Did, and still, and right at this moment, at the enormous company located in triangle bounded by Washington Blvd., Culver Blvd., and Overland Ave.
2007-12-14 14:25:45
67.   Frip
51 I would love to be a valkyrie. That would be so romantic. Seriously. As long as I was pretty. That's the thing, we always assume women in poetry and song are pretty. Who says?
2007-12-14 14:29:23
68.   MC Safety
I'll vouch for Bob, he at the very least acknowledged the Guess Who over a bevy of other Canadian bands.
2007-12-14 14:29:53
69.   jasonungar07
29 A classic case of old school scouting versus sabermatics.

The dude can hit okay? Trust me.

Gosh I swear it was all a Friday night lineup but I guess not..!! But hey I was like 6 in '77. And the Ice Cream was great. Me and my sister would stir it and stir it long enought to where it became ice cream soup...Ice Cream (and Pizza) is still my main eating downfall if thats what you want to call it. I can quit most other foods if needed.

2007-12-14 14:30:36
70.   Jim Hitchcock
66 50 years ago you could have taken the trolley to work!!
2007-12-14 14:30:57
71.   Marty
65 Even better, the Hong Kong Cafe across the alley.
2007-12-14 14:31:44
72.   Bob Timmermann
I'm looking at possible birthday presents for my soon to be 11-year old nephew.

I think it's time for him to get his first sextant.

2007-12-14 14:32:33
73.   Marty
72 Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
2007-12-14 14:32:45
74.   Humma Kavula
70 Tell me about it. I'd love to take the trolley. Instead, I'm stuck in traffic every morning as I play everybody's least-favorite game, "What's Sepulveda Like Today?"
2007-12-14 14:33:50
75.   Sam DC
Sounds like slot car age to me.

By the way, My So Called Life was a huge hit for my world-weary 13 yr old niece.

2007-12-14 14:34:09
76.   Jon Weisman
75 - Glad to hear it.
2007-12-14 14:36:22
77.   MikeB
73 Rimshot!
2007-12-14 14:37:03
78.   MC Safety
75 Big Adventures of Pete and Pete fan right here!
2007-12-14 14:37:07
79.   bigcpa
74 Humma- I too work in said triangle. Shoot me an email! bigcpa@gmail.com
2007-12-14 14:37:57
80.   scareduck
67 - have you ever seen a Wagnerian soprano? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to meet one in a dark alley.

Allegedly true story (and if it's not, it should be) about a woman a friend of mine works with occasionally. She was 60-ish (the friend) at the time this story happened, a former prima ballerina who danced in the Royal Company back in the day. She happened to be in a parking garage when some punk tried to rob her. She completely turned the tables on him by simply asserting an air of supreme self-confidence and got him to give up his knife and leave, without her purse. Apparently she's quite the force of nature.

2007-12-14 14:38:56
81.   scareduck
75 - "world weary" and "13-year-old" are two phrases that should never, ever go together.
2007-12-14 14:40:14
82.   D4P
80
Looney Tunes taught me that female opera singers are fat, and have long braids underneath their viking hats.
2007-12-14 14:40:26
83.   ToyCannon
Sounds like hearsay.
2007-12-14 14:41:20
84.   Kevin Lewis
58

That is hilarious because I do laugh out loud while I am walking. I always wonder if the people in cars think I am weird. Of course, I am the type of person that will laugh out loud while reading a book or while watching a movie alone.

2007-12-14 14:42:14
85.   trainwreck
78
Great show. Now you are making me think of the great Nickelodeon shows like Salute Your Shorts and Canada's finest, Are You Afraid of the Dark.
2007-12-14 14:42:28
86.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, I'll be in Europe for my nephew's birthday, so he will get something from the Deutches Museum Gift Shop.

They have a lot of cool gifts. But a sextant would cost me 104 Euros.

I don't love my nephew that much.

2007-12-14 14:42:51
87.   D4P
84
Do you ever roll on the floor laughing while reading a book or while watching a movie alone?
2007-12-14 14:43:16
88.   Humma Kavula
79 Said email, sent.

81 I disagree, so long as the world-weariness is an affectation and not a sign of serious mental illness. It's an affectation that I would encourage every teenager to go through, because it helps one learn when world-weariness is justified and when it is not. It goes hand-in-hand with being thirteen.

2007-12-14 14:44:45
89.   Kevin Lewis
87

I don't think my alone laughing has forced me to roll on the ground. But I do laugh at myself for laughing while walking on the side walk, and then I enter the endless cycle of laughter (first at Wait, Wait, and then at myself, and then back to Wait, Wait)

2007-12-14 14:45:24
90.   Sagehen
82 Looney Tunes operas are the best! "I'm going to kill the rabbit" -- to the tune of Ride of the Vulkyres, of course. And who can ever forget The Rabbit of Seville? Beverly Sills on the Muppets performing "Pigelleto" is pretty good as well.

Too many memories from my childhood here. I remember that Ron Cey commercial -- even the jingle -- because he was my favorite player.

They just don't make trashy television like they did in the 80s.

2007-12-14 14:46:16
91.   Jim Hitchcock
79 bigcpa's the one with the orange hair.

74 I did the Westchester to West L.A. run for a while, and I can't remember Sepulveda ever being anything but trouble.

Beat the 405, though.

2007-12-14 14:46:24
92.   ToyCannon
I must try this Wait, Wait.
2007-12-14 14:47:32
93.   MC Safety
85 I suspected we had similar tastes trainwreck. Those shows are great. Add Count Duckula, Doug, and Hey Dude as well.
2007-12-14 14:48:13
94.   bigcpa
91 Right now I'm the one with orange hair and crutches.
2007-12-14 14:48:19
95.   Humma Kavula
91 Lately, I've received Special Permission from work to be here at 10 am instead of 9am. The Special Permission shaves 15 minutes off my commute, simply because there are many fewer cars on the road.

OK, I didn't really receive Special Permission. I just stopped showing up on time, and everybody is saying, "He has a brand-new kid. Leave him alone."

2007-12-14 14:49:31
96.   ToyCannon
88
Plus if we didn't have world weary teen agers and angst where would all the good music come from? Happy people do not make good music.
2007-12-14 14:49:39
97.   silverwidow
The Twins just signed Mike Lamb to play 3B.

What a slow newsday...

2007-12-14 14:50:17
98.   Daniel Zappala
I laugh at books all the time, whether reading them alone or with my kids. These are not the Lincoln assassination books, nor those authored by Ken Noe, mind you.
2007-12-14 14:50:52
99.   Daniel Zappala
96 You're forgetting the Osmonds.
2007-12-14 14:51:13
100.   trainwreck
93
I had totally forgotten about Count Duckula, that show was great.

My friends and I sometimes still singing "Banging on a Trash Can" to annoy one another.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-12-14 14:51:52
101.   Bob Timmermann
Chris Evert and Greg Norman announced that they're engaged.

I didn't even know that either person was divorced.

2007-12-14 14:52:12
102.   trainwreck
* still sing
2007-12-14 14:52:20
103.   MikeB
Favorite TV Shows as a child:
Sheriff John's Lunch Brigade
Engineer Bill
Highway Patrol
Space Patrol
The Lone Ranger
Wonderful World of Disney - especially the Spin & Marty episodes
2007-12-14 14:52:42
104.   Jim Hitchcock
94 Sorry to hear that. Industrial accident?

(Is it proper to joke about anothers injury?)

2007-12-14 14:53:11
105.   Daniel Zappala
I used to live in West LA on Sepulveda. Also Westchester. Also Culver City. I could have waved at all you people driving by, had I known you then.
2007-12-14 14:54:02
106.   ToyCannon
97
Nice pickup, but he's better as a role player then a starting 3rd. Maybe they can pick up Ensberg and reenact the old Astro platoon.
2007-12-14 14:54:08
107.   Jim Hitchcock
[103} Highway Patrol was so cool (maybe even better than Sea Hunt). Broderick Crawford was the man.
2007-12-14 14:54:38
108.   trainwreck
96
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YbGSDkvh8B0
2007-12-14 14:54:50
109.   Wilbert Robinson
103

The Fall Guy
SWAT
The ATeam

2007-12-14 14:55:05
110.   scareduck
86 - especially when you can get one on eBay for under $50:

http://tinyurl.com/2nskpb

2007-12-14 14:55:55
111.   Wilbert Robinson
108 Everytime someone posts a youtube clip my anger level rises a notch.
2007-12-14 14:57:49
112.   Humma Kavula
111 Wilbert Robinson's current color: purple
2007-12-14 14:58:59
113.   MikeB
107 "Whenever the laws of any state are broken, a duly authorized organization swings into action. It may be called the State Police, State Troopers, Militia, the Rangers... or the Highway Patrol. These are the stories of the men whose training, skill and courage have enforced and preserved our state laws."
2007-12-14 15:00:46
114.   MikeB
109 Is there a decent action series on network TV these days?
2007-12-14 15:01:10
115.   MC Safety
100 Nice. I forgot to add DangerMouse as well, Count Duckula's predecessor on Friday nights.
2007-12-14 15:02:11
116.   trainwreck
115
Yeah, I immediately thought of Danger Mouse.
2007-12-14 15:02:48
117.   MC Safety
109 No mention of Airwolf or Hunter?
2007-12-14 15:04:21
118.   ToyCannon
114
Numbers-the action is in the alogrithms
2007-12-14 15:07:15
119.   KG16
114 - does Bones count? I have to admit, I don't watch much network tv any more, many of the shows I tend to watch are on Tuesday nights on FX.
2007-12-14 15:08:02
120.   Jon Weisman
111 - I feel so bad. Like a ballgame on a rainy day.

I mean it.

2007-12-14 15:09:03
122.   Marty
How funny would it be if BigCPA and Humma Kavula worked next to each other all this time.
2007-12-14 15:09:30
123.   MikeB
103 Correction - the Spin & Marty serial episodes were originally shown as part of the Mickey Mouse Club show - not the Wonderful World of Disney.
2007-12-14 15:12:24
124.   trainwreck
Breaking news at Catfish Stew involving our rival D-Backs.
2007-12-14 15:12:52
125.   scareduck
101 - for some reason I thought Chris Evert was a lesbian.
2007-12-14 15:12:59
126.   jones2929
Has anyone seen the "Steve Garvey Celebrity Billfishing Tournament" on Cheap Seats? Easily one of the funniest things I've ever seen on TV. With Michael Floorwax as the "comedian".
2007-12-14 15:13:18
127.   ToyCannon
Holy Crap - Catfish Stew says that Haren has just been traded to our competitors. Not good news.
2007-12-14 15:13:48
128.   Humma Kavula
122 He is not the guy next to me. I would have been highly surprised if the guy who works next to me had earned any degree beyond a B.A., much less one that requires the skills of a CPA.

Plus, he has neither orange hair nor crutches.

2007-12-14 15:14:57
129.   ToyCannon
125
That would be news to John Lloyd.
2007-12-14 15:15:06
130.   KG16
here's hoping the schedule works out so that when the Dodgers play the D'Backs, they get the 3-4-5 guys in the rotation rather than Webb and Haren.
2007-12-14 15:15:15
131.   Bob Timmermann
125
You were never tuned into the whole Chris vs. Martina rivalry back in the day were you?
2007-12-14 15:15:45
132.   jasonungar07
Around here, we brush our teeth with Scotch.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073961/

2007-12-14 15:17:38
133.   Jon Weisman
I've had two double-posts today.
2007-12-14 15:17:43
134.   KG16
you know, everytime I hear Chris Everet's name, I think of Jim Everet's interview with Jim Rome in the early days of ESPN2.
2007-12-14 15:18:58
135.   D4P
Has anyone seen the "Steve Garvey Celebrity Billfishing Tournament" on Cheap Seats?

Cheat Seats and Steve Garvey had a special relationship.

2007-12-14 15:19:05
136.   Jon Weisman
127 - Now I have to revise my NL starting pitching rankings!
2007-12-14 15:19:09
137.   Wilbert Robinson
134

me too it gives me shivers actually its one of the awkwardest things I've ever seen on television.

2007-12-14 15:19:54
138.   Kevin Lewis
I used to stay home sick just to watch reruns of CHiPs

Oh the days of innocence.

2007-12-14 15:20:43
139.   MikeB
120
The Rainy Day
by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

The day is cold, and dark, and dreary;
It rains, and the wind is never weary;
The vine still clings to the moldering wall,
But at every gust the dead leaves fall,
And the day is dark and dreary.

My life is cold, and dark, and dreary;
It rains, and the wind is never weary;
My thoughts still cling to the moldering Past,
But the hopes of youth fall thick in the blast
And the days are dark and dreary.

Be still, sad heart! and cease repining;
Behind the clouds is the sun still shining;
Thy fate is the common fate of all,
Into each life some rain must fall,
Some days must be dark and dreary.

2007-12-14 15:22:34
140.   Sagehen
114 Some would say 24 or Heroes. Those shows take themselves much too seriously, though (and are correspondingly violent). Can you imagine Heroes with the light touch of a 1980s action series? In the 80s / late 70s we got the Lindsey Wagner Bionic Woman. Compare that to the tone of the new Bionic Woman. Alas ... I long for trashy 80s television. I guess I'll spend the evening watching Hart to Hart on DVD.
2007-12-14 15:23:04
141.   Jon Weisman
120 - I was doing an Elvis reference, but that works too.
2007-12-14 15:24:02
142.   jasonungar07
Baseball America Diamondback prospect rankings:

Gonzalez #1,
Anderson #3,
Cunningham #7,
Carter #8.

So without being scientific about it:

1. Clayton, Kershaw, lhp
3. Chin-Lung Hu, ss
7. James McDonald, rhp
8. Jonathan Meloan, rhp

2007-12-14 15:24:19
143.   Wilbert Robinson
120 - My dad used recite that poem to me when I was a kid!
2007-12-14 15:24:23
144.   silverwidow
HAREN TO D-BACKS

VALVERDE TO ASTROS

2007-12-14 15:24:43
145.   Wilbert Robinson
120 - My dad used recite that poem to me when I was a kid!
2007-12-14 15:25:23
146.   MikeB
140 Action series, cont.
The FBI - starring Efrem Zimbalist, Jr. (has there ever been a more pompous name for a TV star?)
Cannon, Magnum PI, Mannix
2007-12-14 15:25:24
147.   Wilbert Robinson
i mean 139 he would of been a lot cooler if he would have sung me Elvis songs.
2007-12-14 15:25:39
148.   trojanmansaki
link to 144

http://tinyurl.com/ysb5s4

2007-12-14 15:25:39
149.   KG16
137 - I tend to like Jim Rome, but he definitely got what he deserved in that exchange. I never thought of it as awkward, it was just funny because you always hear guys warn people but never follow through.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dOVxitMy47c

2007-12-14 15:26:00
150.   bigcpa
104 Jim- I broke my foot while taking out a dirty diaper over Thanksgiving. Definitely would make the list of bizarre athlete injuries. Greene, DNP (diaper) 4-6 wks.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-12-14 15:27:56
151.   KG16
so, these two moves, net improvement for the Snakes? I ask because I don't know the guys they got from Houston.
2007-12-14 15:28:37
152.   Marty
Who can forget Captain Nice? And it brings us full circle on William Daniels.
2007-12-14 15:28:56
153.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
I met Haren after his rookie year with St. Louis. He came to my class at UCSB (2004) and we watched his 1st major league game vs Bonds and the Giants. Very cool guy, always put him on my fantasy team. Now I we see him (his team) 19 times a year and I dont like it!
2007-12-14 15:29:56
154.   MC Safety
101 Werent they like good friends through each others spouses or something crazy?
2007-12-14 15:30:47
155.   Kevin Lewis
149

That looked staged to me (at least from the first watch through)

2007-12-14 15:30:52
156.   ibleedbloo
Webb and Haren not a bad 1-2 punch...I'll still take Penny and Bills though...but just by a hair.
2007-12-14 15:31:25
157.   trainwreck
153
Which class was that?
2007-12-14 15:33:34
158.   Jon Weisman
If the trade goes through, I have the Diamondback rotation topping the NL at 15 points, with the Dodgers and Brewers one point behind. (I've been tinkering with the rankings offline.)

• Super above-average (4): Brandon Webb
• Above-average (3): Danny Haren
• Average to above-average (4): Doug Davis, Micah Owings
• Mystery (1): Randy Johnson
• Up-and-coming (3): Yusmeiro Petit, Esmerling Vasquez, Max Scherzer
• Below-average (0): Edgar Gonzalez, Dustin Nippert, Enrique Gonzalez

2007-12-14 15:33:37
159.   Wilbert Robinson
149 yeah I don't know it literally makes me shiver. Mostly the moments leading up to the table flipping. And therefore my anger level has not gone up upon this particular youtube clip being posted.
2007-12-14 15:35:52
160.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
157 Fundamentals of Baseball. Taught by Al Ferrer (former UCSB manager). Required reading was Moneyball and License to Deal (Jerry Crasnick). Learned more in that class than any other class at UCSB.

Ferrer's son and Haren were best friends from playing ball at Pepperdine.

2007-12-14 15:36:21
161.   jasonungar07
If I worked in Culver City I would be so fat from Johnnie's pastrami and Dinah's chicken.
2007-12-14 15:36:28
162.   trainwreck
160
I wish I could travel back in time and take that class.
2007-12-14 15:37:37
163.   Kevin Lewis
160

That class sounds awesome. Now I feel like my College Education was a waste.

2007-12-14 15:38:14
164.   KG16
In ESPN's college football tournament (they apparently have nothing else to talk about), they have a championship game of USC and Oklahoma. Herbie and Corso say Oklahoma wins the game. Anyone think that a playoff rendering that outcome would be better than the current system?

And really, Oklahoma could beat (a healthy) USC on a neutral field?

2007-12-14 15:38:19
165.   Kevin Lewis
If you build a time machine, I will join you
2007-12-14 15:38:52
166.   scareduck
131 - not so much, though I did pay attention to tennis in the early days of Martina's career. I'm surprised I got them in any way confused, because it used to be Chris Evert-Lloyd, but she divorced John Lloyd in 1987. I see she's a matrimoniac (on her third marriage now).
2007-12-14 15:38:56
167.   Jim Hitchcock
150 Ouch. Easily the most painful break I ever had {heel, ankle, wrist, and dislocated elbow, all on the left side) was when I broke my foot playing basketball as a kid. It really hurt.
2007-12-14 15:39:37
168.   trainwreck
164
Yes.
2007-12-14 15:39:59
169.   KG16
And I thought I was good with the Comic Spirit in undergrad (first day in we were watching Daffy Duck cartoons), a class like the fundamentals of baseball would have been enough to keep me awake and attending class.
2007-12-14 15:40:01
170.   Wilbert Robinson
163 I took a Grateful Dead class at UCSC and Wavy Gravy came in as a guest lecturer.
2007-12-14 15:40:05
171.   Kevin Lewis
164

The college football tournament is hilarious to me. They actually spend quite a bit of air time on something that means so little to reality. It reminds me of the competition they had with different professional athletes. I forget the name of that one, but ESPN is just top quality.

2007-12-14 15:40:27
172.   Jim Hitchcock
161 You just have to add Tito's Tacos to that list.

But the chicken gizzards and livers at Dinah's...mmmm.

2007-12-14 15:40:33
173.   scareduck
158 - why would that trade make a difference to the Snakes' rotation? They're sending Chad Qualls and Chris Burke back, not a starter.
2007-12-14 15:41:11
174.   Marty
I sprained my ankle worse than I ever have before 3 weeks ago just walking out the front door. It's still weak I have to be careful about missteps.
2007-12-14 15:41:33
175.   Jim Hitchcock
170 Was he driving an oddly hued bus?
2007-12-14 15:41:51
176.   Frip
She completely turned the tables on him by simply asserting an air of supreme self-confidence

That may work for women, but as a man I prefer an air of supreme cowardice or feigned seizure. Seriously, this works way better than bravado, which only serves to further antagonize and increase the speed of their fists on my face.

2007-12-14 15:42:00
177.   KG16
171 - you mean "Who's Now?" In which they went searching for the next athlete to overpromote?
2007-12-14 15:42:18
178.   jasonungar07
If I went to USCB I would be fat from Woodstock Pizza and Garlic Balls from Palizzao...I would try to balance it by going to blenders in the grass for smoothies..
2007-12-14 15:42:26
179.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
[162,163,165]
I would also hop on that time machine. I miss that class, didnt know how good I had it until it was over.
2007-12-14 15:43:00
180.   bigcpa
Santa Maria BBQ is my Culver City fave. Versailles and Tender Greens are solid too.
2007-12-14 15:43:09
181.   Wilbert Robinson
175 No but he was dressed as a clown.
2007-12-14 15:43:35
182.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
178 - Dont forget the excessive drinking in Isla Vista either.
2007-12-14 15:43:53
183.   Marty
After you've had Langer's pastrami you'd want to burn Johnnies down to the ground.
2007-12-14 15:43:54
184.   jasonungar07
I had sushi for an ealry lunch, I guess thats why I can't stop posting about food...
2007-12-14 15:44:24
185.   MikeB
172 Culver City haute cuisine --
Tito's Tacos!!!
Petrelli's for Steaks
Howard's Famous Bacon & Avocado Burgers
Empanadas on Sawtelle
2007-12-14 15:44:27
186.   regfairfield
156 Webb and Haren are better than both Penny and Bills. Much better strikeout rates, and better control. All they have on Haren is keeping the ball in the park.
2007-12-14 15:44:54
187.   ibleedbloo
173 The Dbacks are involved in two trades. Haren to the Dbacks from A's will make the difference in the rotation.
2007-12-14 15:45:20
188.   KG16
180 - Versailles is one of the better Cuban places I've found out here. If you're in Orange County, I'd suggest Felix's in Orange. But in LA, Versailles works quite well.

Of course, none of them compare to grandma's cooking.

2007-12-14 15:46:17
189.   jasonungar07
Lol..where is Langer's? I am down in South OC but with the folks being in Thousand Oaks and sister in Hermosa we try and meet up in that area often.

182 thats a given. But then I went to CSU Chico, so when we would go down to UCSB for soccer or to visit friends it was like taking time off to detox.

2007-12-14 15:46:22
190.   trainwreck
178
Super Cucas and Freebirds were my food vices.
2007-12-14 15:46:23
191.   Humma Kavula
180 Tender Greens... mmm. And two doors down in Honey's Kitchen Fried Chicken, which ain't bad, if you don't mind having to restart your heart.

Also in Culver (in a very odd location): Hiko Sushi.

2007-12-14 15:47:23
192.   Marty
Langers in on the corner of 7th and Alvarado in McCarthur Park. It closes at 4 p.m.

Best pastrami on the planet

2007-12-14 15:48:50
193.   KG16
I've got a question, and this is really in all honesty:

Why are strike out numbers apparently more important for pitchers but not so much for hitters?

I seem to remember a lot of people dismissing Dunn's high strike out rate, just wondering.

2007-12-14 15:49:35
194.   ibleedbloo
186 I think Haren pitched way above what he will do from here out (al la Zito 2002). I see him regressing over the next few years while I see Bills improving for years to come. My guess is that Bills will put up better numbers than Haren in 2008.

I think Webb and Penny are very close with Webb just ahead of him.

2007-12-14 15:49:42
195.   D4P
Why are strike out numbers apparently more important for pitchers but not so much for hitters?

Good FAQ candidate. This comes up a lot.

2007-12-14 15:49:44
196.   Jon Weisman
173 - I don't understand your comment. Haren added three points to the Arizona rotation - that was my point.
2007-12-14 15:51:08
197.   therickdaddy
Uh -- why was Valverde traded for junk? And does AZ's farm have anything left of serious contention now?

Should we be happy or sad here?

2007-12-14 15:51:52
198.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
189 - Those Chico kids did party. I couldnt hang with those guys.

190 More of a Silvergreens/Deja Vu guy myself

If I were a Dbacks fan, I would be pretty pumped right now. The NL West just got a whole lot better

2007-12-14 15:51:54
199.   MikeB
192 Let me know the next time you go there for lunch. I'd like to try it.
2007-12-14 15:52:59
200.   underdog
So much for the slow baseball news day! But I guess trade news, even if it involves the DBacks, beats more steroid news. So obviously the Snakes gain a great pitcher; is the consensus also that the A's gain a neat haul of prospects? Sounds like there's some highly ranked guys in the bunch, but who will help the A's sooner rather than later?

And why did they have to trade with one of our division rivals! Do they have no feelings?

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-12-14 15:54:11
201.   Bob Timmermann
193
Why are strike out numbers apparently more important for pitchers but not so much for hitters?

It all comes down to BABIP.

2007-12-14 15:54:48
202.   bigcpa
193 Short answer is that hitters striking out correlates with good things like XBH's. The bottom 10 of hitters strikeouts are generally the slappy guys who don't create runs as well (no Dodgers that I can think of.)

Pitchers with low K's are at the mercy of their defense and outfield fences to prevent runs scoring. The bottom 10 of pitcher K's are generally BP machines, if not this year then next year. See Carlos Saliva.

2007-12-14 15:55:21
203.   bigcpa
201 Wait if mine was the short answer than what was yours?
2007-12-14 15:55:27
204.   regfairfield
194 Why, Webb pretty much dominates him in everything.

Penny: 5.84 K/9, 1.84 K/BB, .39 HR/9
Webb: 7.83 K/9, 2.69 K/BB, .45 HR/9

Webb's also younger, cheaper, under contract for longer, and pitches in a more hitter friendly park.

Why do you think Haren will regress, he's shown improvement every year and still only 26. He's not getting by on one pitch like Zito.

2007-12-14 15:55:31
205.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
200 Billy Beane is still playing with house money from the Mulder/Hudson trades.
2007-12-14 15:55:36
206.   natepurcell
I hope this doesn't trigger an arms build up for Colletti in regards to Bedard...
2007-12-14 15:57:01
207.   D4P
Michael Vick is claiming to be an animal lover.

There's a sign in front of a house on my street that says "When Jesus said 'Love your enemies', he probably didn't mean 'Torture them'."

2007-12-14 15:58:48
208.   MC Safety
I have a frown again.
2007-12-14 15:59:36
209.   regfairfield
197 I don't think the Snakes care if they have anything left. Almost all of their positions are manned by someone young and cheap already.

Valverde has been really unreliable historically and probably didn't have much value to most teams. Qualls isn't that much worse, and it netted them a utility player in Chris Burke to replace Callapso, which is much better than being stuck with Augie Ojeda in the playoffs.

2007-12-14 16:00:26
210.   scareduck
Arizona just won the division again. I think.
2007-12-14 16:02:15
211.   scareduck
196 - because I was looking at the wrong trade.
2007-12-14 16:02:36
212.   trainwreck
198
I got Silvergreens occasionally, but they are expensive. I did like their tortilla soup though.

I hated Deja Vu with a passion. Worst philly cheesesteak I have ever had and my friend ordered garlic bread and it was a hot dog bun with some butter and garlic on it.

2007-12-14 16:03:37
213.   natepurcell
Well crap, Dbacks have gotten a lot stronger and not really given up anyone on the big league team.
2007-12-14 16:03:38
214.   Jon Weisman
I could be wrong, but something tells me the Dodgers will not let Kuroda get away from them now.
2007-12-14 16:03:45
215.   bigcpa
210 It's a long way to 92-93 wins starting from 712 RS/732 RA.
2007-12-14 16:03:48
216.   StolenMonkey86
193 - The reason strikeouts aren't as bad for hitters is that typically they're correlated with power and patience. That's not because striking out is good, but rather because for a player that strikes out a lot to make the majors, he has to do something else well, typically walk a lot and hit the ball out of the park a lot. Swinging for the fences can also lengthen a player's swing, making it all or nothing sometimes, and if a player is guessing on a close pitch, he may guess wrong.

For a pitcher, there is no such correlation. Walks allowed and home runs allowed are not correlated with strikeouts with pitchers because their approach doesn't adjust the same way a hitter's does. Rather, a strikeout means the baseball was not put in play. If a pitcher does this, this is very good, because the pitcher's job is to get outs, and if he can do that by himself, that's good. Also, a strikeout means that the pitcher definitely got an out. A ball in play for a pitcher just means that it's up to his defense to get to it.

2007-12-14 16:04:22
217.   regfairfield
210 They certainly have the rotation to compete now, especially if they get the Unit back.
2007-12-14 16:05:38
218.   regfairfield
214 Methinks this won't frighten Arizona all that much. You may have got Dan Haren, but we made a marginal improvement on Esteban Loaiza. Take that.
2007-12-14 16:06:06
219.   StolenMonkey86
202 - mine was a little longer, so I wasn't too redundant.
2007-12-14 16:07:20
220.   bigcpa
Livan 33 GS, 20 VORP
Haren 34 GS, 56 VORP

So 36 VORP is what, 3.5 wins? So they're a pythagorish 82 win team with Eric Byrnes as their best hitter. I'm not cowering in fear unless Upton hits like Ryan Braun.

2007-12-14 16:08:10
221.   Jon Weisman
Should I give Owings an extra point in the system for his bat?
2007-12-14 16:08:53
222.   Jon Weisman
218 - I agree, but that's not the point of view I look at it with. I think the Dodgers will be afraid to stand pat.
2007-12-14 16:08:55
223.   KG16
201 , 203 - interesting. But that argument seems to reduce the importance of BABIP to me. As I've argued here before, I consider strikeouts to be the second worst thing a hitter can do (behind a double play) because it does nothing to advance the offense, a sac fly at least makes it easier for the next guy to drive in the run.

I would seem that it would be better for a hitter to put the ball in play than to strike out. So more strikeouts would be a bad thing in my mind. I'm not saying a high strikeout rate undoes everything else a hitter does, but it should be something that is taken into consideration, a K-rate like BA/OBP/SLG would be something I'd take into consideration.

2007-12-14 16:10:21
224.   Louis in SF
210
Dodgers are still in the Kuroda race and in theroy Arizona is out of it now having Haren.I wonder if the A's are now going to trade Blanton? If the Dodgers don't get Kuroda, will they make a run at Blanton?

While Arizona is stronger for the moment, we have to wait until this Kuroda situation sort out.

2007-12-14 16:11:23
225.   jasonungar07
Freebirds that was Burritos right?

Yah I was just happy to make it out of Chico. I'll never forget when the older fellas picked me up for my very first soccer practice we had to stop to drop off the Keg shell.

2007-12-14 16:12:27
226.   regfairfield
220 They'd need a bunch of well regarded prospects to fail miserably yet again to not improve massively on their Pythagorean Record. I'd like to think it would happen, but it won't.

222 That's what I'm thinking too. It's just more thinking of the humor of firing back on the Haren acquisition by doing an "oh yeah, but we got Kuroda.

2007-12-14 16:12:44
227.   trainwreck
225
Yes, it is.
2007-12-14 16:15:54
228.   underdog
Not to mention that I'm not convinced that the Big Unit is going to be anything more than a shell of his former self at this point. I mean I'd count on him even less than I'd count on Jason Schmidt, and their line-up still doesn't scare the bejeezus out of me. But the 1-2 punch on the mound will be tough to get past.
2007-12-14 16:16:22
229.   bigcpa
223 The productive out thing was studied and debunked awhile back. At the team level productive outs do not correlate with scoring at all. Yes in a given ab you would rather A Jones flies out to RF and advances runners than K's. But if you're deciding between A Jones and Aaron Rowand, K rate should not outweigh OBP/SLG.
2007-12-14 16:17:52
230.   D Money
3
i have to agree with you man.
2007-12-14 16:18:32
231.   ibleedbloo
204 Haren had a great first half, but after the all star break he was less than stellar. ERA jumped almost 2 points, his WHIP went from 1.00 to 1.50, and his OBA went from .256 to .335 mostly do to his H/9 going from 6.75 to 11.28.

Not only do I not think he can repeat the first half he had last season, I don't think he can come close to sustaining those type of number over 32+ starts. Also, he is 27, not 26 (though I don't think that will have anything to do with his numbers.)

2007-12-14 16:19:04
232.   LeeLacy
Let me just state again how much I love this blog.

I've laughed out loud at least 6 times while reading this thread.

2007-12-14 16:19:24
233.   regfairfield
228 He struck out 72 in 56 innings last year. He's obviously still got something left.
2007-12-14 16:20:14
234.   jasonungar07
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/343618_mari15.html

Kuroda update

2007-12-14 16:20:27
235.   KG16
229 - I'm not saying it should outweigh OBP/SLG, but it should be considered. If only because while we analyze the aggregate, we live in the anecdotal.

It's like poker, I know that with an open ended straight flush draw on the flop, I've got about a 60% chance of making at least a straight or a flush, but on that particular hand, the stats don't matter. It is completely independent of the aggregate.

2007-12-14 16:20:35
236.   JoeyP
229--Exactly. Cherry picking situations where a K would be worse than some other kind of out in the end holds no value.

Wasnt the 2007 Dodgers a perfect example of that--> They had lots of SBs, very few K's, and still couldnt score runs.

The GMs still looking at K's, batting average, SBs, and "productive outs" are going to miss the important stuff everytime.

2007-12-14 16:21:39
237.   JoeyP
235--But the Dodgers arent trying to win 1 game, or 1 inning, or 1 ab. They are playing 162 games, so you must look at the aggregate.
2007-12-14 16:22:39
238.   regfairfield
231 Penny also crashed and burned hard in the second half. Of course Haren's first half was a fluke, he's not the best pitcher in baseball, but that was just regression to the mean.
2007-12-14 16:23:25
239.   trainwreck
I just realized that the D-Backs are team Walnut Creek.

Dan Haren lives in Walnut Creek, Randy Johnson was born here, and Doug Davis went to my high school.

Too bad I have to hate them.

2007-12-14 16:26:03
240.   StolenMonkey86
213 - The conspiracy theory suggests that Billy Beane wants something out of Baltimore. He just completed a trade of a whole bunch of players for Dan Haren, so the Orioles think "Billy Beane is copying us, we must be onto something!" Lulled into a false sense of security, the A's make their move.
2007-12-14 16:27:19
241.   bigcpa
235 How would you use K's to differentiate these two?

Aramis Ramirez .310/.366/.549   66 K, 43 BB
Miguel Cabrera   .320/.401/.565   127 K, 79 BB

2007-12-14 16:28:13
242.   KG16
237 - I'm not saying to ignore the aggregate, I'm just saying you have to consider more factors than what you are considering. If a guy is more likely to strike out than he is to get a hit, is that really a good thing, over all? Do you really want to build a team that overall is more likely to strike out than it is to get a hit?

It's an ideological question, I suppose. I prefer a team that has more line drive hitters, high BA/OBP, because I think that is the best way to score consistently.

2007-12-14 16:30:47
243.   StolenMonkey86
241- Since Cabrera has more K's he probably has a higher line drive rate to have the higher BA.

Survey (fangraphs) Says:
Cabrera: 20.7% LD%
Ramirez: 17.5% LD%

2007-12-14 16:32:43
244.   regfairfield
242 But that's the exact team we had this year, and we sure didn't score all that consistently.
2007-12-14 16:33:09
245.   kachang
Long time, avid reader - infrequent poster...

Just as a counterpoint to all the negative press going around, I wanted to share a positive story about MLB. My wife works at their headquarters here in New York and I was fortunate enough to attend their Holiday party last night. It's not all that glamorous really. The celebrity citings usually amount to Bob Dupay, and Bud (this is my/her 4th yr).

Usually these parties are good for the free food and ice skating at Rockefeller center and not much else.

But last night I got to meet Darrell Miller - older brother of Reggie and Cheryl...and to my surprise, the backup catcher with the Angels from 84'-88'. He's heading up a nice little program out of Compton, the MLB Youth Academy...

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/community/urban_youth.jsp

It a program which helps underprivileged youth with education, scholarships, and baseball instruction - and in doing so is also is keeping the game popular among kids in the inner city. And lets face it, the game is losing out on the talent pool to basketball, football, and x-games.

I guess I have the stereotype that most ex-big leaguers have big egos and big attitudes. But Darrell was not only working toward a good cause (IMO), but was also just a really nice guy.

It's good to know that all is not lost when it comes to professional baseball.

Happy Holiday and GO Dodgers!!!
(would Kuroda sign already?!)

2007-12-14 16:33:28
246.   D Money
49
wait what? Bob did what to Tulare County?
that place might as well be a disposal site. it might improve some. the first 20 years of my life was spent in agony there.

I am so glad to be gone from there!

2007-12-14 16:33:37
247.   JoeyP
consider more factors than what you are considering.

I think thats the point of many statisticians running regression analysis. They've found that there are really only a couple of factors heavily correlated to scoring runs.

The other stuff is really inconsequential.

2007-12-14 16:36:15
248.   jystakes
I'm willing to bet that if we don't land Kuroda, Kemp is going to the O's for Bedard. If we do land Kuroda, Ethier is probably going to Tampa Bay or Texas for middle relief help. Ned is definitely more likely to give up Kemp and Brox for Bedard after the Haren trade got done.
2007-12-14 16:41:51
249.   silverwidow
248 Ned will not overpay for Bedard. He will almost certainly go after the cheaper Joe Blanton.
2007-12-14 16:43:11
250.   KG16
241 - the higher strikeout rate is troubling for M-Cab, but his higher walk rate balances that out a bit. I'd probably take M-Cab over Ramirez, for a variety of reasons, but M-Cab is less troubling than a guy like say Dunn, who strikes out as much (if not more, like this year) than he gets a hit.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-12-14 16:44:28
251.   jystakes
249 He may or may not overpay, and I don't know if he actually will give up Brox and Kemp for Bedard, but he's definitely more likely to now than a few hours ago. He probably wouldn't do Kemp and Brox, but maybe Kemp and Meloan. He wants a lefty pretty bad.
2007-12-14 16:49:34
252.   jelmendorf
Re: 235 It is like poker, which is to say, if you have a 60% chance of success, you're ahead and you should bet (or call) in almost all situations. That still means you will lose 40% of the time, but since you can't know which time any individual hand is going to win or lose, you have to go with the overall numbers.

Similarly, there are exceptions to the statistical rules in baseball. The goal is not to be perfect, since no one can be. You can sign A-Rod, and he could flop. But your chances are better with A-Rod than Nomar of success.

The question is, does striking out less increase your chances of success? Statistically, no, at least not in a meaningful way. In some individual situations, yes. But still, statistically you call and lose some of the time, but win more often than not.

2007-12-14 16:52:20
253.   Jason in Canada
_245_Wow the Miller family we're gifted in many ways heh?

I remember being in the 8th grade and our class going to UCLA for some kind of trip. One of the girls got Reggie Miller's autograph. I just remember thinking, "Wow, big deal, no one will know who this guy is in a year..."

2007-12-14 16:56:04
254.   MyTummyHurts
126

I've seen it, those guys can be a riot some times, really good show.

2007-12-14 17:04:27
255.   KG16
252 - ok, see that's the thing for me... it's a logic thing for me. To me, it is more logical that you will get a hit, and thus score runs, if you put the ball in play. Striking out does not put the ball in play. In fact, it is the exact opposite of putting the ball in play.
2007-12-14 17:08:46
256.   Bluebleeder87
214

I wouldn't mind at all. I'm gonna go out on the limb (if he does in fact still throw mid 90's heat with CONTROL) I think he'll be a pleasant surprise for us specially in the 1st half. If we do get him it's gonna be fun putting on our scouting hats on (for me at least) Ink 'em Ned!!

2007-12-14 17:11:45
257.   bigcpa
255 If you're down to your last out with a guy on 2b, then maybe you'd rather have Pierre up there than say Dunn. But over 162 gms Dunn creates gobs more runs than Pierre.
2007-12-14 17:21:17
258.   Bluebleeder87
Ethier is probably going to Tampa Bay or Texas for middle relief help.

our middle relief is pretty rock solid with more pitchers waiting in the wings (& Ned has been perfect SO FAR) I really don't think your scenerio will happen, of course it's Ned were talking about so it's still a coin toss I guess.

2007-12-14 17:22:04
259.   natepurcell
Is Harden remotely healthy?
2007-12-14 17:24:00
260.   KG16
257 - actually, I'd still want Dunn at the plate in that situation. I just find it hard to believe - though I suppose the numbers may prove me wrong - that a guy who is just as likely to strike out as he is to get a hit, creates more runs than a guy who puts the ball in play.

But I'm going to let it go.

2007-12-14 17:32:39
261.   silverwidow
Rotoworld said we should "cave in" to Baltimore's demands to counter the move.

Yeah, let's weaken our offense to improve a pitching staff that's really good as is.

2007-12-14 17:44:24
262.   Ken Arneson
259 Harden is supposedly healthy now, yes. But with him, that can change at any moment.
2007-12-14 17:44:44
263.   MJW101
Will Ned go into panic mode and do something stupid?

Will he break his usual pattern or stick to his newly minted principles?

This could be the deciding point for the success or failure of the 2008 season.

Stay tuned.

2007-12-14 17:54:47
264.   alex 7
KG, I've only read the last 20 posts or so, but have you considered that over the course of a year the doubles and homeruns that Dunn hits, despite all the strikeouts, will help score many more runs than the handful of extra singles another guy who doesn't strike out much will hit?

Sure, if you go to extremes you'd rather have a guy who gets a hit 2 out of 4 times and doesn't strike out over a guy who hits 1 double in 4 at bats and strikes out 3 times. But I think the comparison is that those guys who don't strike out much are also not doing much when they do hit the ball. Just extra singles here and there along with many easy outs.

Just to compare:

typical non-K hitter's double header:
3-10, 3 singles, 1 K.

typical power hitter's double header:
2-8, 2 walks, 1 double or HR, 3 Ks.

the value of those walks, doubles, and homeruns outweight the advantage of the extra single and groundball/flyball here and there.

2007-12-14 17:58:13
265.   natepurcell
Penny, Lowe, Billingsley, Lincecum, Cain, Zito, Peavy, Young, Francis, Morales, Jimenez, Haren, Webb, Johnson....

this division is absolutely stacked with top tier arms.

2007-12-14 18:23:54
266.   rjc41276
How is it that the D-Backs can get Haren and the Tigers can get Cabrera/Willis without touching anyone on their major league roster, while every rumor involving the Dodgers has other teams asking almost exclusively for players on their major league roster? (Kemp, Ethier, Broxton, Loney, Billingsley)....the lone exception being Kershaw.
2007-12-14 18:24:51
267.   D Money
257
pierre's game relies alot on having hitters behind him....he gets into scoring position but relies on other to hit him in.

255
you are exactly right. a K does nothing ever. at least making contact gives the oppurtunity for an error.
a non strikeout guy has some value over a high strikeout guy. to argue the fact is naive. it is impossible however to judge how much worth it has over other stats, which is what the people arguing with you seem to want you to do.

2007-12-14 18:26:23
268.   underdog
Well, at least my day wasn't a total waste... new Simpsons trivia quiz up on Facebook!

Also, good underseen sports movie that just came on DVD to recommend: The Rocket (story of Maurice Richard). Helps to like hockey, but not required. Nice movie.

2007-12-14 18:27:08
269.   rjc41276
I mean, wouldn't anybody like a package made up of some combination of LaRoche, Elbert, McDonald or Hu??
2007-12-14 18:30:38
270.   D Money
264
one double out of 4 gives only 1 chance for your teamates to knock you in.

id take the 2 singles and give my teamates 2 chances to knock me in.

but pierre and dunn are horrible examples to use in this debate

2007-12-14 18:38:39
271.   D Money
also, pierre turned 60 something singles and doubles into doubles and triples....im sure that is more doubles and triples than dunn had when you include pierres actual doubles and triples
2007-12-14 18:40:51
272.   Ken Arneson
269 As an A's fan, I would rather have had that package of four players for Haren than the package of six they ended up with.
2007-12-14 18:41:39
273.   D Money
269
i wonder if the 51's would trade us Hu and Elbert for Pierre
2007-12-14 18:42:58
274.   Sam DC
I really urge folks who are just hearing about Langers for the first time to find a way there. For one thing, it's a cool part of LA lots of people don't see -- make and sure and hit the park too.

And for another, it really is unbelievably good pastrami. I've eaten a lot of pastrami in New York over the years, but I can't say the best of it is any better than Langers.

(Joe Petrecelli's, assuming its still there, is a pretty fun place too in its own cheesy way. Kind of place you just expect Telly Savalas to walk in any minute.)

2007-12-14 18:51:15
275.   regfairfield
I think we can't do trades like this because we lack middle of the road prospects that just project out to being average major leaguers. It's either someone that we'd freak out about dealing or someone that no one wants.

271 I find it really hard to believe he did that when he had 32 extra base hits all year.

2007-12-14 18:52:36
276.   Jon Weisman
Why, why, why are we having this same debate about Pierre again. We've been down this road so many times just in the past two weeks.

Player: Total bases + BB + HBP + SB - CS - DP

Dunn (2007): 289 + 101 + 5 + 9 - 2 - 12 = 398 in 632 plate appearances

Pierre (2007): 236 + 33 + 6 + 64 - 15 - 10 = 314 in 729 plate appearances

No amount of groundouts, sacrifices or sacrifice flies is going to make up that difference.

2007-12-14 18:57:42
277.   Bluebleeder87
273

:o)

2007-12-14 18:58:10
278.   Jon Weisman
I mean, this is a happy thread. The Haren trade is bad news for the Dodgers, but at least it's new news. Can we keep this a happy thread and just leave Pierre alone?
2007-12-14 18:59:38
279.   Sub4Era
276 Thank you! Dunn's walk totals alone more than make up for any SB difference. I think Pierre is just the elephant in the room, so we cant stop comparing him to... well, anything.
2007-12-14 19:02:24
280.   natepurcell
Whoa, according to Diamond, Camille Johnston is quitting!
2007-12-14 19:03:08
281.   natepurcell
She couldn't handle the heat!
2007-12-14 19:03:40
282.   Bluebleeder87
274

Here is a nice review of the diner. [ http://tinyurl.com/2zadld ]

2007-12-14 19:05:37
283.   Bob Timmermann
Appalachian State is creaming the University of (deleted state name) in the Division I Football Championship.
2007-12-14 19:05:55
284.   D Money
275
276

as i said in 270 pierre and dunn are bad examples to use.

striking out should be a stat used between players close in stats. not 2 totally different types of players.

2007-12-14 19:05:58
285.   Jon Weisman
280 - That's not a surprise - they just hired someone above her.
2007-12-14 19:08:37
286.   Jon Weisman
285 - http://tinyurl.com/23dnkg
2007-12-14 19:12:18
287.   Bob Timmermann
286
The Dodgers replaced a PR person with a dentist?
2007-12-14 19:13:29
288.   Marty
I always order a #1 at Langers. This is a pastrami sandwich on rye with cole slaw and russian dressing on top. I ask for the very hot chinese mustard and slather that on the sandwich. This gives you four distinct tastes, the wonderful saltiness of the pastrami, the tangy crispness of the slaw, the sweetness of the dressing and the mustardy heat. The rye bread is easily the best I've ever had. As an added bonus, I think Langer's makes the best french fries in town, krinkle cut, cooked just crispy enough on the outside, but pure potato goodness on the inside.

With that combination it's the Sandy Koufax of Delis. Not only does Langer's have the best fastball, but it has the best curveball too.

2007-12-14 19:16:01
289.   D Money
284
in fact the point makes more sense if you look at it as, how much higher would his BA, OBP, & Slug% be and how much more runs could Dunn produce if on half of his K's he put the ball in play.
2007-12-14 19:17:07
290.   CanuckDodger
275 -- Reg, one might also note that the prospects we have whom you say nobody wants would look a lot more attractive if we didn't have so many bright, shiny objects of great value that distracts everybody.

Honestly, looking at what the Diamondbacks gave the A's, I can't say I covet ANY of the six players. Gonzalez looks to me like Joel Guzman (in the bad way). Anderson is a little interesting, in the way that Blake DeWitt is a little interesting (to me, if not Greg Brock), and who wouldn't give up DeWitt in a trade for Haren? Carter is like Josh Bell, and I wouldn't cling to Bell either. Smith is like Stults, for crying out loud.

2007-12-14 19:30:37
291.   Bluebleeder87
282 288

I looked up diner & deli on dictionary dot com because I thought/think I made a boo-boo but I'm still confused...

2007-12-14 19:30:50
292.   regfairfield
284 Probably less because doing so would mean he'd stop swinging as hard as he could and would produce less extra base hits.
2007-12-14 19:31:02
293.   Vishal
289 that ignores the fact that his better contact skills would likely come at the expense of his homers and walks. he wouldn't be the same player at all. waiting for your pitch and swinging for the fences when you think you've got it entails a good deal of whiffing. putting the ball into play by slapping at it means you're not very likely to hit it hard. it's the rare player (pujols) who can either drastically but successfully alter their approach with 2 strikes or just has the talent to hit the ball hard consistently enough to have a high batting average and low strikeout rate.
2007-12-14 19:34:29
294.   KG16
Ok, I've been having a little fun looking at some numbers. Mainly trying to figure out K/AB and K:BB for a few different players over the years (couple guys playing today, and some hall of famers). Here are the career numbers:

Player, K/AB, K:BB (approximate)

Manny Ramirez: .219; 4:3
Miguel Cabrerra: .220; 2:1
A-Rod: .207; 5:3
Mike Piazza: .161; 3:2
Adam Dunn: .326; 3:2
Willie Mays: .140; 1:1 (less than 100 more Ks than BB)
Joe DiMaggio: .054; 1:2
Ted Williams: .092; 1:3
Lou Gehrig: .099; 1:2
Babe Ruth: .158; 2:3

Those are all guys that would hit in the 3-4-5 spot in a line up, I would think, so the comparisons are fair. My point, I suppose, is that you can be a power hitter and not be a high strike out guy at the same time.

2007-12-14 19:37:33
295.   Vishal
294 you just compared a decent but middling slugger (dunn) to a cast of legendary current and future hall-of-famers. sure, it's POSSIBLE to be both, but it's extremely difficult and rare, and when you can put the two together, you are likely to be among the best the game has ever seen.
2007-12-14 19:38:29
296.   Jon Weisman
294 - No one's arguing that, although you just named 10 of the best hitters in history to make your point - several of whom played in entirely different eras.
2007-12-14 19:39:44
297.   KG16
295 - I just included Dunn because he was mentioned earlier and he seems to be the poster boy for this debate.
2007-12-14 19:48:38
298.   KG16
296 - ok, fair enough. I was mainly curious as to what the K-rate was for various hitters and figured these were fairly decent players to compare - I mean, I certainly wouldn't compare any of these guys to He Who Shall Not Be Named.
2007-12-14 19:53:07
299.   D Money
295
i must have missed Dunn's name in 294
2007-12-14 19:54:39
300.   D Money
nevermind....i thought i posted something before 299
it didnt go through though. disregard.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-12-14 20:01:27
301.   regfairfield
290 True, but even then, why can't people demand Justin Upton or Stephen Drew from the Diamondbacks?
2007-12-14 20:07:50
302.   D Money
within the last hour i have read 3 brand new articles saying dodgers and kuroda are close to signing a deal.
2007-12-14 20:09:02
303.   natepurcell
link!
2007-12-14 20:16:04
304.   D Money
http://tinyurl.com/yrcee9
2007-12-14 20:17:38
305.   natepurcell
i saw that one. what are the other two articles?
2007-12-14 20:17:53
306.   MJW101
If (a big if) the Dodgers do sign Kurbota then the #1-#4 is:
Penny
Lowe
Bills
Kurbota
with a host of signed pitchers (Schmidt, Loaiza, Kuo, Stults, Houlton etal) for #5.

If Ned traded for Bedard he would have to include one of the current #1-#4 in the trade (Lowe?) to make room on the roster.

Is Bedard that much better than Lowe to justify giving up Kemp & Kershaw?

True we only have Lowe for one more year, but by the time he leaves McDonald/Ebert/Kershaw might be ready to take his place.

2007-12-14 20:18:26
307.   Terry A
Gary Burghoff gets an NRI to spring training? Awesome.

I wish Larry Linville were still alive...

2007-12-14 20:19:18
308.   MJW101
306 Sorry, Kuroda not Kurota. My Japanese is a little rusty.
2007-12-14 20:21:37
309.   Terry A
By the way: Jim Edmonds traded to San Diego. For a middling prospect.
2007-12-14 20:21:54
310.   KG16
306 - I couldn't see justifying including Kershaw in a package that includes Lowe, you get Lowe, you don't get a pitching prospect. In fact, I think the offer including Lowe is: Lowe and second tier prospect (maybe 2 prospects).
2007-12-14 20:23:25
311.   KG16
309 - nice to see Jim back on the west coast, just wish it wasn't with the Priests
2007-12-14 20:25:09
312.   ToyCannon
I used to eat at Petrelli's when I worked down the street about 20 years ago. It was a dark dark place and I always could envision a gun in the john if I looked hard enough. Or maybe that was just my imagination running away with me.
2007-12-14 20:34:39
313.   Daniel Zappala
273 That was really funny.
2007-12-14 20:46:15
314.   ToyCannon
As others have said we could easily have beaten the Diamonback package for Haren without touching the core guys. I would have hated to lose LaRoche but for Haren I would have done it.
If Ned wasn't going to trade the 2nd tier talent for Haren it tells me several things.
1. Kuroda is already signed and delivered and they are just waiting to do something official.
2. Ned likes LaRoche more then we think
3. If that is all Oakland could get for Haren then we still might be able to get Bedard without giving up Kemp or Kershaw as I've said all along.

LaRoche is a better talent then Carlos Gonzalez not only at the plate but the fact he's a decent 3rd baseman. Everyone of those players could flop and the upside is only high with Carlos. I had hoped that if Haren went to Arizona that Billy would have done a better job of raping them.

Billy Beane did a nice job picking the Cardinals clean of Haren who already was a major league pitcher but he did a poor job of picking the Braves pocket for Hudson. I think the Diamondbacks just made a great great trade. We better hope that Drew is really the 2007 version and not the 2006 version or they are going to be a handful. They are going to be a handful anyway.

2007-12-14 20:52:35
315.   alexx
How long will it be before Plaschke begins whining that the Dodgers haven't done enough this offseason compared to their NL West rivals? Will the potential Kuroda signing be enough to placate him?
2007-12-14 20:59:04
316.   KG16
315 - When is his next column due? With the Lakers playing well and Kobe saying he's happy being a Laker, that just leaves the Dodgers to beat on.

Signing Kuroda should be enough, I would hope, to placate him. Hopefully it is announced before Plaschke's next column is due.

What's funny is that the no one in the NL West has really done a lot. Everyone seems to have come to the conclusion that they'll be pretty good for a while (with the exception of the Giants) and that there are few places to improve. I doubt that Plaschke will get that, he seems to be one of those guys that believes in doing something for the sake of doing something.

2007-12-14 21:02:26
317.   natepurcell
316

I think getting one of the top 6 pitchers in baseball without giving up any big league pieces is doing a lot.

2007-12-14 21:02:50
318.   natepurcell
eh I should say, one of the top 6 pitchers in baseball in 2007.
2007-12-14 21:06:52
319.   KG16
317 - quality/quantity, I was talking quantity. It's not like the AL Central the last few years with a mini arms race, or the Yanks/Saux annual arms race, with a ton of movement. The Dodgers signed Jones, the D'Backs traded for Haren, and that's really been it - both high quality moves, but it's not like everyone in the division is going crazy.
2007-12-14 21:28:25
320.   Sagehen
Forgive me if someone has already mentioned it, but the Dodgers PR queen resigned today. From Ken Gurnick:

Camille Johnston, the Dodgers' senior vice president of communications the past two years, resigned on Friday.

This seems like rather horrible timing.

2007-12-14 21:34:25
321.   Bob Timmermann
It was mentioned earlier and Jon explained that it was expected since the Dodgers hired someone to do the same job and gave him a better job title.
2007-12-14 21:38:17
322.   Gagne55
317 Not to mention the Padres aquiring arguably the best center fielder of the 21st century.
2007-12-14 21:41:56
323.   natepurcell
322

He's gunna be 38 and he's coming off an 88 OPS+ season.

I'm not that petrified.

2007-12-14 21:50:19
324.   KG16
I always thought that the Dodgers should have traded Carlos Perez for Edmounds when the Cardinals got him.
2007-12-14 22:03:53
325.   Gen3Blue
The D-backs may have gotten better for next year, but they could be less of a threat during the D's prime, which is coming soon enough at this present course.
2007-12-14 22:11:18
326.   MyTummyHurts
323

I can't wait to see something like this [ http://tinyurl.com/yt8rnl ] Edmonds glove Versus Jones glove.

2007-12-14 22:13:45
327.   Andrew Shimmin
Mmm. Pastrami. There should be a holiday that revolves around Pastrami. And it should be a week long.
2007-12-14 22:13:53
328.   Gagne55
324 Carlos Perez was garbage. Really the only thing Carlos Perez makes me think of is him getting in a fight with the cooler. Adam Kennedy > Carlos Perez. So why would Perez have netted Edmonds?
2007-12-14 22:13:56
329.   Bluebleeder87
MYtummyHurts trying to steel my thinder... ;o)
2007-12-14 22:15:04
330.   natepurcell
From Tony Jackson

The Dodgers could agree to terms with free agent Hiroki Kuroda as soon as today after making what general manager Ned Colletti called "significant progress" in negotiations with the right-hander from Japan on Friday.

"We had a couple of phone conversations," Colletti said. "Hopefully, we're closing in."

2007-12-14 22:16:03
331.   Bluebleeder87
328

He reminds me of the bonfire he had in the bullpen a while back.

2007-12-14 22:18:53
332.   Megaballs
Bedard is a high risk, granted high ceiling guy...the kind we can't afford given our injury millstone, the Giant $17 million Labrum...besides the Balt GM/ownership can't close a deal...they gave away Tejada after two years of dickering...with Bedard and a decent two year contract, they'd like to get bowled over or keep him...Miggy gave them payroll relief for 2008.

But the market for these pitchers under contract seems underwhelming...Haren with good contract...not so much...Santana...he could still be had by someone...Ellsbury or Lester as centerpiece? And sign an extension before waiving a no trade clause...this is a deal I would do even if Schmidt and Loaiza have to relieve...We start the deal with one of Mcdonald/Elbert...throw in the CF Beetlejuice...and just enough prospects to make it the best deal on the table...is Santana deadset on east coast and AL?

2007-12-14 22:21:57
333.   Megaballs
What better way to turn the page on The Steroid Era than with the first bonafide Dodger youth movement in a generation...
2007-12-14 22:26:14
334.   jasonungar07
322 I thought we did.

I like Corn beef more than Pastrami for whatever reason. Just Mustard and on Rye of course.

2007-12-14 23:30:11
335.   worz
330 - Would you post a link to that article?
2007-12-15 00:03:24
336.   xaphor
335 . It is a brief note at the end of the PR reshuffle article.

LA Daily News: PR executive Johnston will be leaving Dodgers
http://www.dailynews.com/ci_7727448?IADID

2007-12-15 00:22:46
337.   berkowit28
337 Same thing, headlined and fleshed out a bit, by Dylan Hernandez of the Times:

"Dodgers General Manager Ned Colletti had multiple phone conversations with Kuroda's agent, Steve Hilliard, and their discussions left the club increasingly optimistic about their chances of landing the 32-year-old right-hander"

http://tinyurl.com/377t5q

2007-12-15 00:49:46
338.   dzzrtRatt
321 I'm sure she felt awful when McCourt made that hire. I feel for her. I'm sure her career is onward and upward from here with the Dodgers on her resume, but it's still tough when things go down like this.

I always assumed Camille was there b/c McCourt was going to need a politically savvy PR adviser in order to make some move for which some level of government approval was needed. Now I don't know what it was about.

2007-12-15 01:07:10
339.   dzzrtRatt
Doesn't this letter-to-the-editor in Saturday's Times' sports section have some merit?

One of the dangers of this report is that most everyone will form an opinion based on what other people say about it. I downloaded the entire 409 pages and read it last night. My recommendation to everyone is to do the same. There is more to the report than naming names.

Most of the players used human growth hormone, not steroids.

Many studies say that HGH is not effective for trained athletes.

The report doesn't take on what may be a more widespread issue: amphetamines.

All of the usage described is illegal and dangerous on many levels. The least thing to worry about is how it affects the record book. The jackrabbit ball put into play in the late '90s had more to do with home run records than steroids ever did. My exhibit A for that argument is Luis Gonzalez (57 homers) and Shawn Green (49). They're not in this report.

Don't bother arguing with me. Read it for yourself.

Eric Monson

Temecula

This point of view exonerates no one who engaged in illegal activity. However, it does suggest there is no need to discount all the performance achievements of the "steroid era." Some, but not all.

Perhaps in some cases, HGH acted like a placebo. With respect to athletes, there was a recent study indicating the placebo effect is powerful. Track athletes with injuries were told they were being given morphine, and it measurably improved their performance.

2007-12-15 01:25:54
340.   dzzrtRatt
Here's the link to an article about the placebo study referenced in 339

http://tinyurl.com/yqtdy7

2007-12-15 06:34:18
341.   D4P
However, it does suggest there is no need to discount all the performance achievements of the "steroid era." Some, but not all.

But that just begs the question: which achievement do we discount, and which do we count? Seems to me we have two choices:

1. Discount everything
2. Count everything

2007-12-15 06:58:34
342.   D Money
322
i am pretty sure the dodgers did that.. Jones is better than Edmonds i'm pretty sure. At this point anyways....their career numbers are very similar, both are outstanding defensively, but Jones is 7 years younger...

neither one have anything on Griffey though...dont even try to say different...no amount of stats will change my mind. :)

2007-12-15 07:26:50
343.   Jon Weisman
Thanks bigly to the big efforts of TheBigGrabowski, we have 8 of the 14 AL starting rotations detailed.

Red Sox - Benaiah
Yankees - TheBigGrabowski

Tigers - TheBigGrabowski
Indians - MCSafety
Twins - TheBigGrabowski

Angels - Scareduck
Mariners - TheBigGrabowski
Athletics - TheBigGrabowski

Any volunteers for the remaining six?

Devil Rays -
Blue Jays -
Orioles -
White Sox -
Royals -
Rangers -

If you're willing, please put your results with the others in this thread:

http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/881690.html

2007-12-15 07:33:33
344.   Andrew Shimmin
Every time D4P says that something begs the question, a child loses his faith in education.
2007-12-15 07:40:52
345.   D4P
344
But what of my legendary effect on the fairer sex...?
2007-12-15 07:41:25
346.   scareduck
Man, what a weird night. I dreamed Eric Gagne mailed me a package of steroids.
2007-12-15 07:48:15
347.   D4P
346
On a barely related note, my wife and I found out last night that some friends of ours (a married couple) check their doorstep every night to see if someone happened to randomly leave a baby on it. (They have a baby of their own, so they're not infertile or desperate or anything).

Now that's weird.

2007-12-15 07:59:15
348.   Eric Stephen
I'm assuming Haren would get a 3 on the previously discussed NL starting rotation rankings, putting the D-Backs total at a league-leading 14 (tied with the Brewers):

Super above-average (4): Brandon Webb
Above-average (3): Dan Haren
Average to above-average (4): Doug Davis, Micah Owings
Mystery (1): Randy Johnson
Up-and-coming (3): Yusmeiro Petit, Esmerling Vasquez, Max Scherzer
Below-average (0): Edgar Gonzalez, Dustin Nippert, Enrique Gonzalez

Of course, the Dodgers were already at 13, and Kuroda has got to be at least a 1 if not a 2, putting the Dodgers at least even with the top rotations in the league if they do indeed sign Kuroda.

Here are the ZiPS projections for the Dodgers starters in 2008, courtesy of BTF (D-Backs aren't up yet):

(first number is IP, second is ERA+)

Penny: 200, 118
Lowe: 210, 113
Billingsley: 180, 113
Kuroda: 180, 115
Schmidt: 119, 110
Loaiza: 127, 92
Stults: 147, 88
Houlton: 138, 88

There have only been eight LA Dodger teams with 4 pitchers with at least 20 starts & a 110 ERA+:

1996 (90-72, wild card): Astacio / Valdez / Nomo / Martinez
1985 (95-67, 1st): Hershiser / Valenzuela / Reuss / Welch
1984 (79-83, 4th): Hershiser / Valenzuela / Honeycutt / Pena
1977 (98-64, NL champs): Sutton / Rau / Hooton / John
1976 (92-70, 2nd): Sutton / Rau / John / Rhoden
1975 (88-74, 2nd): Messersmith / Rau / Sutton / Hooton
1972 (85-70, 2nd): Osteen / Sutton / Downing / John
1961 (89-65, 2nd in NL): Koufax / Williams / Drysdale / Podres

2007-12-15 08:05:19
349.   Jon Weisman
348 - I actually bumped the Dodgers up to 14 offline by giving Schmidt and Kuo each a full point. But Arizona's acquisition of Williams Jennings Buckner I think bumps them to 15.

I definitely feel Arizona had a weaker rotation than the Dodgers before Friday.

2007-12-15 08:08:20
350.   Eric Stephen
349
Speaking of the populist Buckner, I'll do the Royals. I need to try and out-bleak No Country For Old Men!
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-12-15 08:19:37
351.   Ken Noe
347 Any interest in a good-natured center fielder? He has the arm of a small child.
2007-12-15 08:28:45
352.   Jon Weisman
350 - Thanks, Eric. New post up top.
2007-12-15 08:29:21
353.   D4P
351
Let's drop him off on their doorstep and see what happens.
2007-12-15 09:14:25
354.   sweepstakes
Did Jeff Daniels play the "husky hiker" in the shaving-foam commercial? Looked like him, maybe.

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