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Current Roster with Estimated 2008 Salaries
(updated March 28)
Most figures are estimates (some are wild estimates) but will be updated as information comes in. Corrections welcome.
More contract details here.
Starting Pitchers (5)
$12,300,000 Hiroki Kuroda
$10,000,000 Derek Lowe
$9,500,000 Brad Penny
$7,000,000 Esteban Loaiza
*$500,000 Chad Billingsley
Total: $39,300,000
Bullpen (6)
$2,000,000 Takashi Saito
$1,925,000 Joe Beimel
$1,125,000 Scott Proctor
*$500,000 Jonathan Broxton
$500,000 Chan Ho Park
*$400,000 Hong-Chih Kuo
Total: $6,450,000
Starting Lineup (8)
$14,100,000 Andruw Jones
$13,000,000 Rafael Furcal
$9,000,000 Jeff Kent
$8,500,000 Nomar Garciaparra
$8,000,000 Juan Pierre
$500,000 Russell Martin
*$400,000 James Loney
*$400,000 Matt Kemp
Total: $53,900,000
Bench (6)
$875,000 Gary Bennett
$600,000 Mark Sweeney
$424,500 Andre Ethier
$391,000 Delwyn Young
$390,000 Chin-Lung Hu
$390,000 Blake DeWitt
Total: $3,071,000
Disabled List
$12,000,000 Jason Schmidt
*$400,000 Tony Abreu
*$390,000 Andy LaRoche
Total: $12,790,000
Also Paying ...
$1,000,000 Brett Tomko
$750,000 Odalis Perez
$540,000 Yhency Brazoban
$500,000 Randy Wolf
$487,500 Jason Repko
$135,225 Rudy Seanez
$100,000 Mike Lieberthal
$50,000 Ramon Martinez
Total: $3,562,725
Working total: *$113,268,725
*Rough salary estimate
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In the wake of the Dodgers' Hiroki Kuroda signing, Dodger Thoughts commenter Eric Stephen researched the realties of No. 4 starters in the National League. Enjoy his work!
With the recent signing of Hiroki Kuroda by the Dodgers, many reports peg Kuroda as the team's "fourth starter." What should we expect of Kuroda in 2008? How well will Kuroda have to perform to be considered a success? To define his success, we need to figure out just what a fourth starter is, and how will Kuroda compare with his 2007 Dodger counterparts.
The Dodgers' "Big Three" of Brad Penny, Chad Billingsley, and Derek Lowe are all above average pitchers. In 2007, they combined for 85 starts and put up stellar numbers, a combined 3.44 ERA and 133 ERA+. No team in the NL got better pitching out of its top three starters (ranked by IP) in 2007:
| Team | G | Win % | IP | ERA | ERA+ |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| LA | 85 | 0.612 | 518 1/3 | 3.44 | 133 |
| SD | 98 | 0.592 | 594 1/3 | 3.24 | 125 |
| Atl | 96 | 0.594 | 591 1/3 | 3.50 | 122 |
| Chi | 100 | 0.540 | 618 1/3 | 3.90 | 119 |
| Ari | 100 | 0.580 | 633 1/3 | 4.01 | 117 |
| SF | 91 | 0.429 | 551 2/3 | 4.05 | 110 |
| Col | 88 | 0.534 | 545 | 4.43 | 108 |
| Cin | 98 | 0.490 | 620 | 4.35 | 107 |
| NY | 95 | 0.579 | 568 1/3 | 3.99 | 107 |
| Hou | 94 | 0.511 | 581 | 4.23 | 104 |
| Pit | 93 | 0.462 | 587 1/3 | 4.18 | 104 |
| Mil | 89 | 0.528 | 531 1/3 | 4.61 | 97 |
| Phi | 91 | 0.571 | 544 1/3 | 4.84 | 95 |
| StL | 88 | 0.466 | 516 | 4.80 | 92 |
| Was | 72 | 0.472 | 389 | 4.84 | 87 |
| Fla | 95 | 0.474 | 531 | 5.24 | 82 |
The Dodgers had the highest ERA+ at 133 (Note: When I plugged in Dan Haren's 2007 into Arizona's numbers to replace Livan Hernandez, their ERA+ is also 133) and highest winning percentage at .612. However, only the Washington Nationals got fewer starts out of their "Big Three," and only the Nationals and St. Louis Cardinals got fewer innings than the Dodgers.
Outside of the "Big Three," I lumped every other starter into a category called "The Rest." Here is how "The Rest" fared in the NL in 2007:
| Team | G | Win % | IP | ERA | ERA+ |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ari | 62 | 0.516 | 324 2/3 | 4.66 | 101 |
| Col | 75 | 0.573 | 398 1/3 | 4.79 | 100 |
| Mil | 73 | 0.493 | 401 2/3 | 4.48 | 100 |
| Chi | 62 | 0.500 | 337 1/3 | 4.72 | 99 |
| SF | 71 | 0.451 | 417 | 4.49 | 99 |
| Phi | 71 | 0.521 | 394 | 5.00 | 92 |
| NY | 67 | 0.493 | 372 1/3 | 5.03 | 85 |
| StL | 74 | 0.500 | 373 | 5.38 | 82 |
| Hou | 68 | 0.368 | 376 2/3 | 5.45 | 81 |
| LA | 77 | 0.390 | 398 2/3 | 5.71 | 80 |
| Cin | 64 | 0.375 | 337 | 5.80 | 80 |
| Was | 90 | 0.433 | 467 | 5.34 | 79 |
| SD | 65 | 0.477 | 340 2/3 | 5.63 | 72 |
| Fla | 67 | 0.388 | 326 | 6.13 | 70 |
| Atl | 66 | 0.409 | 325 2/3 | 6.16 | 69 |
| Pit | 69 | 0.362 | 345 2/3 | 6.43 | 68 |
While other teams may have gotten worse pitching from the dregs of their rotation than the Dodgers, only the Nationals had more starts from their back end.
The Dodgers' pitching figures to improve in 2008 simply by having Chad Billingsley in the rotation for a full season (he only made 20 starts in 2007). Having Kuroda will also help, albeit it a hefty cost ($12.3 million for 2008 alone), as he simply has to replace the dastardly duo of Mark Hendrickson & Brett Tomko, who combined for a putrid 5.84 ERA in 30 starts and 155.2 innings in 2007.
Looking further into the numbers, it underscores how important depth is when evaluating potential starting rotations. There is simply no such thing as a five-man rotation, at least in literal terms. It really does take a village to build a pitching staff. In 2007, the average NL team used:
The Cubs got the most starts out of their top five starters, with 152. Here are the numbers for each NL team:
Chi - 152 (93.8%)
SD - 143 (87.7%)
Ari - 139 (85.8%)
Mil - 137 (84.6%)
SF - 136 (84.0%)
NY - 133 (82.1%)
Atl - 133 (82.1%)
Hou - 131 (80.9%)
Fla - 131 (80.9%)
Cin - 129 (79.6%)
Pit - 127 (78.4%)
StL - 125 (77.2%)
Phi - 123 (75.9%)
Col - 122 (74.8%)
LA - 118 (72.8%)
Was - 103 (63.6%)
Those pesky Nationals again kept the Dodgers out of the bottom spot.
Using Baseball-Reference.com, I ranked each team's starters by innings pitched to define each rotation slot, and averaged them. I used the league 4.43 ERA to calculate the cumulative ERA+, so they may be a bit off. Here are the numbers for the 2007 NL:
| Rotation Slot | GS | IP | IP/start | H/9 | HR/9 | BB/9 | K/9 | ERA | ERA+ |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| #1 Starters | 33.3 | 209.7 | 6.31 | 9.00 | 0.83 | 3.00 | 6.62 | 3.84 | 115 |
| #2 Starters | 30.9 | 187.4 | 6.06 | 9.33 | 1.13 | 2.74 | 6.28 | 4.32 | 103 |
| #3 Starters | 27.9 | 160.4 | 5.75 | 9.38 | 1.16 | 3.38 | 6.58 | 4.53 | 98 |
| #4 Starters | 21.7 | 124.4 | 5.73 | 9.13 | 1.16 | 3.12 | 6.20 | 4.59 | 96 |
| #5 Starters | 16.4 | 88.9 | 5.43 | 10.17 | 1.26 | 3.35 | 5.84 | 5.07 | 87 |
| #6 Starters | 11.3 | 60.4 | 5.37 | 10.18 | 1.15 | 3.32 | 6.22 | 5.26 | 84 |
What's interesting is that even if you expand the average NL rotation to include six starters, that still leaves roughly 21 starts unaccounted for!
What does this mean for the Dodgers? None of the eight hurlers who started a game for the Dodgers outside their "Big Three" had an ERA+ of 100 or better. Only the Pittsburgh Pirates and Florida Marlins can share this dubious claim. Think about that for a moment. Nearly every team in the NL got league average innings out of at least one starter outside their top three. Not the Dodgers. David Wells and his 5.12 ERA in seven Dodger starts made him the fifth best starter on the team!
What does this mean for Kuroda? If they can get more than 124 IP with an ERA+ of 96 or more out of their newest Japanese import, they will be above average in the National League, and I'd call his season a success.
(Editor's note: And if the Dodgers' top three retain their advantage over the rest of the NL, so much the better.)
* * *
In other Dodger Thoughts commenter news, Nate Purcell went through Kuroda's 2007 boxscores and determined (with some small amount of self-confessed margin for error) that Kuroda's groundout/flyout ratio was 2.25 to 1.
In North America, cowhide is used to cover baseballs. In Asia, it's horsehide. There is a difference in its tackiness.
http://tinyurl.com/2aaul4
(Just saying)
Kershaw can't get here fast enough for me. I hope he dominates enough that he's pitching in some capacity for us in August. I think even if he does a Joba like job out of the bullpen he could have an impact.
Upside, fantasy-like: if the "big three" pitch slightly above their projections, Schmidt does something miraculous, and Kuroda is league-average, we could be looking at 90+ wins regardless of how many games JP and Garciapara take to play themselves out of their jobs...
Assuming the big 3 stay healthy and and continue to produce at last years levels, the back end of our rotation will likely determine if we make the post season. I wouldn't call 96 ERA+ a success for the money being paid, but it would be a significant upgrade over what we had pitching #4 last year.
I have a question. You note:
None of the eight hurlers who started a game for the Dodgers outside their "Big Three" had an ERA+ of 100 or better. Only the Pittsburgh Pirates and Florida Marlins can share this dubious claim. Think about that for a moment. Nearly every team in the NL got league average innings out of at least one starter outside their top three.
But we also see that taken as a whole, the third starter has an ERA+ of 98 and the fourth starter and ERA+ of 96. Do the Dodgers (as far as the 4th starter is concerned), Pirates and Marlins drag these averages down below 100, even though all the other teams are at 100 or greater?
Nate, what kind of conclusions or projections can we draw from the 2.25:1 GB:FB ratio? Does that number mean that we shouldn't expect Derek Lowesque numbers, but some success wouldn't be surprising?
Nate (or anyone),
I know it would be a small sample size, but do you have any information on whether GB rates stay steady when moving from Japan to the US, or, whether the GB rates in Japan are - on average - comparable across the league to the US?
vr, Xei
Basically, the Dodgers had no ERA 100+ depth whatsoever from 4 down.
Seems to me we'd really need to know where linedrives fit in before we can really make accurate projections. Clearly, Ratio A would have very different implications than Ratio B, despite having the same GB:FB ratios.
Ratio A: 9 GBs, 1 FB, 10 LD
Ratio B: 9 GBs, 1 FB, 1 LD
19 If what Bob said about the Japanese leagues is true, I'd imagine it'd go down with less people trying for the fences and most players just trying to put the bat on the ball.
vr, Xei
Wolf was the #4 starter, in that he threw the 4th most IP. His ERA+ was 97, but no one else was even close to him from the rest of the staff.
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe the Rockies got 155 starts out of pitchers with an ERA+ of 97 or better.
16
Speaking of luck, look at the Dodgers "rest" versus the Padres. The Padres got even worse pitching than the Dodgers (72 ERA+ vs. the Dodgers' 80) yet the Padres' winning percentage in those games was .477 as compared to a nearly league worst .390 for LA.
I'm sure some of that was due to the Padres' superior bullpen and offense but I don't all of their advantage was due to those factors.
Seems unlikely, though.
The 8 point difference in ERA+ between the Dodgers and adjacent Padres is the largest gap between adjacent teams in the Big Three ERA+ standings.
vr, Xei
However, our big three would have less weight than anyone elses because they threw less innings.
He's on his winter break: he has nothing else to do anyway.
vr, Xei
Nate went here:
http://www.japanesebaseball.com/boxscores.jsp
and then looked at the somewhat abbreviated play by plays for all but one of Kuroda's starts.
And echoing an earlier comment, Japanese hitters hit more grounders because they are just trying not to strike out.
Wolf had 18 starts of 97 ERA+
Hendrickson had 15 starts of 88 ERA+
Tomko had 15 starts of 79 ERA+
Wells had 7 starts of 89 ERA+
Kuo had 6 starts of 62 ERA+
Schmidt had 6 starts of 72 ERA+
Loaiza had 5 starts of 55 ERA+
Stults had 5 starts of 79 ERA+
Kuo, Schmidt, Loaiza, and Stults all went 1-4 each.
Wells got lucky and went 4-1.
I had forgotten about Wolf. Kuroda will need to do make many more starts than Wolf's 18 to be much of an improvement. The rest will depend on starters #5-6+ being healthy enough to not go 1-4 or god forbid 2-11.
Milwaukee was the only team to get better numbers from outside their "big 3". Gallardo was actually their 6th starter by IP.
I tried to remove all subjectivity from this. We could go through and debate which starter occupied which slot, but in reality the innings pitched kind of determine that. Think of it as a way to show how teams allocated their staters' innings. Perhaps if Gallardo was called up sooner, the Brewers would have had a bigger division lead and would have made the playoffs. But they didn't, and that's instructive.
Are any Japanese teams looking for a centerfielder...?
5 innings or fewer: six times
6/6+ innings: 13 times
7/7+ innings: 13 times
8 innings: once
I think the owner of the website has them, but he might not have the boxscores on his website now.
I have my Excel file at home. I can search when I get home, unless Nate isn't busy. :)
I know Penny averaged 6.30 IP per start.
Bravo!
Sincerely,
SB
Something I don't fully understand: among the "big 3", the Padres had more innings pitched and a lower ERA, but a lower ERA+ . Does this reflect park adjustments?
I researched this same question last year and I don't believe any carrier has direct flights from any LA airport to West Palm. Plenty directs from LAX to Orlando, though.
Yes, it's purely park adjustments. A league average ERA in Dodger Stadium was 4.57, and was 4.04 in Petco.
Thanks to everyone for the kind words and thanks to Jon for the opportunity!
And nice work, Eric - this is most illuminating! Considering the Dodgers also have Schmidt (fingers crossed) and Loiaza (toes crossed) plus Kershaw-McDonald-Stults-Kuo, it's hard to imagine how the bottom of the rotation can't be markedly improved over the '07 model.
Carlos Silva, perhaps the top starting pitcher remaining on the free-agent market, does not figure to be available much longer.
The Mariners are in serious negotiations with Silva on a contract that would be worth at least $44 million over four years, according to major-league sources.
--
68 - wasn't this the general consensus going into '07 with Schmidt and Wolf added though?
Going into 2007, the "Big Three" were Schmidt-Lowe-Penny, with Wolf in the Kuroda role, and Tomko/Hendrickson in the Schmidt/Loaiza role, with Billingsley-Kuo in the up & coming role (although most of use here thought Billingsley should have been in the rotation much sooner, if not from the beginning of the season).
Meaning, now matter how much we plan, we will probably need one or more of Kuo, McDonald, or Kershaw to start at some point this season.
They didn't have specifics on whether the hits were groundballs, flyballs or line drives.
I included sac bunts as ground outs and line outs as fly outs if that makes any difference.
What does this mean for Kuroda? If they can get more than 124 IP with an ERA+ of 96 or more out of their newest Japanese import, they will be above average in the National League, and I'd call his season a success.
You could have just used the Kuroda Accord!
It's back to normal...
Ahh, it was a good ride..
Ouch
If anything, this verifies the parameters of the Kuroda Accord.