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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Ramon Martinez II ... II
2008-01-29 17:36
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Ramon Martinez (II) gets a Spring Training invite on a minor-league contract, report Tony Jackson of the Daily News and Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise.

From Leung: My best memory of Ramon from last year came when Matt Kemp befuddled him with a greeting of, "What it do?"

Comments (177)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-01-29 17:40:58
1.   Humma Kavula
Lucille's fine. Obviously, there isn't a spot for him on the opening day roster, but send him to Vegas and let him wait for an injury. I don't have any problem with that.
2008-01-29 17:41:23
2.   Eric Enders
"What it do?" -- a question that could also be asked about Martinez himself.
2008-01-29 17:42:36
3.   D4P
You picked a fine time to return to me, Lucille.
2008-01-29 17:42:59
4.   Bob Timmermann
Lucille II will perhaps turn into Joe Torre's West Coast version of Enrique Wilson.
2008-01-29 17:43:48
5.   Eric Enders
I don't have a problem with sending him to Vegas and waiting for an injury. I do have a huge problem with the idea that he might actually make the team over Abreu. It's a distinct possibility with Mustache in charge.
2008-01-29 17:44:15
6.   LAT
Its been a while since I LAT-ed myself.

407. LAT
I was a pretty soft touch as a judge. The only people I really threw the book at were those driving without insurance. If you hurt someone and don't have the resources to compensate them you better have insurance or you better not be driving. BTw, there are tons of people without insurance out there.

The only other person I gave a maximum fine to was someone who did not have her baby in a car seat. No excuse for this.

2008-01-29 17:45:35
7.   regfairfield
And so answers the question of who gets to fulfill the honorary Ramon Martinez role of who gets to be useless utility guy for the year.
2008-01-29 17:46:02
8.   Humma Kavula
5 Oh, I agree entirely. If he makes the team, it will be the worst tragedy ever to befall the days of man.
2008-01-29 17:50:42
9.   El Lay Dave
LAT-ed.

Back in posts 152 and 164 Toy Cannon and bhsportsguy provided some scouting analysis from BHQ and BA, respectively, on the Met's prospects being traded for Santana. I looked up the BHQ ratings for Dodger prospect from a post TC put on True Blue LA, and the BA rating from their own writeup. While this comparison is admittedly crude, here is an attempt at mapping a similar set of Dodger prospects:

BHQ BA rank Age Pos. NY Plyr
9E 2 18 RHP Guerra
?? 3 22 CF Gomez
7B 4 22 RHP Mulvey
8C 7 25 RHP Humber

BHQ BA rank Age Position LA Plyr
8B 3 24 SS Hu
9C 4 22 LHP Elbert
9E 6 19 RHP Withrow
8C 7 23 RHP McDonald

The Dodgers don't have a CF prospect like Gomez, but I used Hu because he's at a premium defensive position. The Dodger pitchers may be too good (if Withrow = Guerra and McDonald = Humber, Elbert > Pulvey); consider, say, Orenduff, who is outside the BA top-10 and a BHQ 7C.

I suspect that some/all the following are true:
-Santana blocked LA
-LA doesn't want to give the six-year extension
-Minn just traded for a SS and needs the CF more
-Santana really wants NY or Boston

2008-01-29 17:51:16
10.   D4P
7
Yep. It was a Royce Clayton or Guy With Generic Latino Name, after all.
2008-01-29 17:51:17
11.   Bob Timmermann
8
Right after the development of nuclear weapons no doubt.
2008-01-29 17:51:20
12.   trainwreck
Now I have this DJ Khaled song stuck in my head, where they say "What it do" a lot.
2008-01-29 17:52:27
13.   regfairfield
1. Lucille is Dodgers utility guys
2. Jesus dies.
2008-01-29 17:52:27
14.   ToyCannon
Bank on it, Abreu and Hu will be manning the keystone for Vegas. I think Jeff Kent said he didn't want of the youngsters looking over his shoulders. He doesn't mind being replaced defensively by a wily veteran like Lucille II but damn if he was going to sit down for the likes of HuAbreu.
2008-01-29 17:52:29
15.   LAT
I have to go to an orentation tonight for 8th grade parents about what to expect in high school next year. Are you kidding me? I have a daughter going into H.S.? Someone made a mistake. My daughter likes to hang out at Dodger games with her Dad. She likes to play with her dolls and have me read to her. My daughter's not going into high school!

D-E-N-I-A-L!

2008-01-29 17:53:56
16.   ToyCannon
Not to increase the pain but I was sneaking girls out of their rooms in 8th grade.
2008-01-29 17:57:00
17.   trainwreck
15
You could always make sure she fails her classes.
2008-01-29 17:57:46
18.   Bob Timmermann
15
Let's all start singing "Sunrise, Sunset" to get LAT in the mood.
2008-01-29 17:59:10
19.   Eric Enders
15 Watch "Thirteen." It'll cheer you up.
2008-01-29 17:59:45
20.   Bob Timmermann
19
Even "Juno" will get LAT in the right mood.
2008-01-29 17:59:52
21.   Humma Kavula
15 Just wait until she gets married.

And then just wait until she has a baby.

My father-in-law was a wreck when we told him he was going to be a grandfather.

Speaking of that: I heard today that the average age that one becomes a grandparent in this country is forty-six. I couldn't believe it.

2008-01-29 18:00:36
22.   trainwreck
19
Or "Kids."
2008-01-29 18:00:39
23.   Bob Timmermann
Speaking of that: I heard today that the average age that one becomes a grandparent in this country is forty-six. I couldn't believe it.

I'm doing my part to help raise that average age.

2008-01-29 18:03:37
24.   Humma Kavula
23 No kidding. I know people who were older than 50 who became first-time parents -- much less grandparents.
2008-01-29 18:04:44
25.   trainwreck
21
I was 11 when my mom turned 46.
2008-01-29 18:06:09
26.   Jason in Canada
My grandfather was 74 when I was born. My other grandparents were all 60+.

These kids today are spoiled with there "young" grandparents.

2008-01-29 18:06:29
27.   Jason in Canada
My grandfather was 74 when I was born. My other grandparents were all 60+.

These kids today are spoiled with their "young" grandparents.

2008-01-29 18:06:49
28.   Bob Timmermann
24
My father became a grandfather for the first time at age 67.
2008-01-29 18:07:26
29.   Jason in Canada
Please excuse my double grandparent post.
2008-01-29 18:19:01
30.   Marty
25 Me too
2008-01-29 18:27:10
31.   Daniel Zappala
My biggest concern with the Kurkjian chat is this line, regarding Joe Torre:

Plus, he brings a cache to the job.

What exactly is Joe Torre trying to hide? Is he going to put Juan Pierre in his cache? Fantastic!

Or maybe he's got some extra memory for Colletti's laptop, so that it can display more statistics.

Either of those might be more useful than cachet, which won't help the Dodgers win any games.

2008-01-29 18:29:32
32.   wireroom
My dad was 42 when I was born.
2008-01-29 18:32:16
33.   Bob Timmermann
30
I was 9 when my father and mother turned 46. That was back in the day when a woman having a child at age 36 was considered to be very old.

None of my nieces and nephews really got to know any of their grandparents on either side of their family.

I grew up with my maternal grandmother in an extended household and I think it really helped. I loved having her around because she knew so much stuff. She could talk about the past without boring you to death.

And she made the world's best grilled cheese sandwiches.

2008-01-29 18:34:15
34.   Gen3Blue
LATed again--but no great loss.
2008-01-29 18:35:24
35.   Dave G
My dad was 60 when I was born. And my mom 30. Second family for him, first for her.

So I have a couple half-nephews (kids of my half-brother and half-sister) who are older than me, and all of them are around my age.

We all get along great.

2008-01-29 18:43:06
36.   wireroom
35 Your dad must have been quite the ladies man at 60!
2008-01-29 18:47:54
37.   Gen3Blue
These grandchidren of us younger people are going to need all the years experience they can get cause we still have many more years to figure out how to take advantage of them.
2008-01-29 18:59:58
38.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
Can someone more hip than I explain "what it do" to me? I have heard it about a hundred times, and I get that it is a greeting, like "how is it going?", but I don't know the precise meaning, or the derivation.

Bob? You tend to know these things...

2008-01-29 19:03:41
39.   trainwreck
38
You basically got it right. Means "What's up?".
2008-01-29 19:05:11
40.   Bob Timmermann
38
I'm 42. I'm unhip.
2008-01-29 19:12:47
41.   trainwreck
D4P needs to move to the Bay Area. That episode of the Simpsons where Lisa tutors Cletus's kids that he loves, is on practically every week here.
2008-01-29 19:22:28
42.   Disabled List
Lost in all the Santana nonsense is the fact that, two days after the Bedard trade was announced, the Orioles are still holding up the deal.

It occurs to me that the Mariners are giving up more for Bedard than the Mets are for Santana.

2008-01-29 19:29:41
43.   Bob Timmermann
42
You need to factor in to the potential Bedard deal that Peter Angelos is an idiot.
2008-01-29 19:31:34
44.   Ken Noe
I'll confess, signing RM II to any contract frightens me. For the first time in awhile, that old dread of Ned has returned. It's like seeing your ex-alcoholic friend outside a bar.
2008-01-29 19:35:08
45.   Terry A
43 - But a remarkably rich idiot. Like most of the other owners of baseball franchises.

5 - "Crown Prince," not "Mustache!"

2008-01-29 19:42:26
46.   jasonungar07
As a 36 year old who has a first child who is a 10 weeks old, I now for the first time in my life have a legit regret....I wish I had him 10 years ago.

The other things that I thought were regrets were just annoyances. I knew I would love being a dad but words just can't explain how cool it is. I want it to speed up and slow down all at once.

2008-01-29 19:48:56
47.   68elcamino427
46 Congratulations on the new addition to your family!
Few are more fortunate than the children that are wanted by their parents.
There are a alot of kids out there who were never wanted by their parents.
The love that you have for your son is a joy to read.
2008-01-29 19:52:25
48.   Eric Enders
I wonder if Jon changed his headline because he just thought of a better one, or because Leung thought of the same thing?

(I do like the new one better, btw.)

2008-01-29 19:52:32
49.   bhsportsguy
Nate Silver signs off his analysis of the Mets deal for Santana by saying that the Mets got him without giving up a single top tier prospect makes this a happy day for Mets fans.

However, what does that mean when by most analysts, the Mets did give up their 2nd best position player and 3 of their top 5 pitching prospects.

2008-01-29 19:53:10
50.   68elcamino427
48 The love that you have for your new baby. Boy or girl, it's a great time for you.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-01-29 19:55:34
51.   still bevens
49 That the Mets farm system is terrible and now its even worse?
2008-01-29 19:55:45
52.   68elcamino427
49 I'm keeping in mind that the Twins scouting department has a great reputation.
They may see something that we don't.
2008-01-29 19:56:24
53.   Eric Enders
49 "However, what does that mean"

It means that they'd already largely depleted their farm system through trades and promotions.

2008-01-29 19:59:20
54.   Eric Stephen
I love that Diamond Leung scours YouTube for obscure Dodger fans.

http://tinyurl.com/262e3g

Also, the sideburns are a nice touch.

2008-01-29 20:01:50
55.   Eric Enders
55 I love that the guy has a Lester Freamon-style mugshot bulletin board behind him.
2008-01-29 20:02:27
56.   68elcamino427
44 Your post is funny and I share your sentiment. I was happy learn that RM II had departed.
The prospect of having to see him again makes me weary.
2008-01-29 20:04:40
57.   jasonungar07
I appreciate that Camino...! It's been a good offseason. (for what I was hoping to see out of the dodgers as well)
2008-01-29 20:05:12
58.   jasonungar07
Oh it's a Boy!
2008-01-29 20:07:56
59.   Eric Stephen
55
I'm now considering putting a similar board at my desk at work.

I had to Google Lester Freamon, as I have not seen The Wire. It's my next series to catch up on. I know it's great; I just didn't want to jump in without seeing any previous seasons.

In a similar fashion, Thursday will be my inaugural first run Lost episode, as I am now fully caught up.

2008-01-29 20:12:59
60.   Eric Stephen
The Tony Jackson piece on the Lucille II signing says, "[Martinez] will be given a shot to compete with youngsters Tony Abreu and Chin-lung Hu for what probably will be two utility infield spots on the opening-day roster."

Is there room for two utility guys on the 25-man roster? I think that means one of two things will happen:

1) an 11-man pitching staff
2) Ethier or Pierre will be traded

I'm assuming Delwyn Young is on the squad (maybe that's faulty reasoning). Or maybe Tony Jackson was just speculating on the two utility spots. Who knows?

2008-01-29 20:13:52
61.   overkill94
For those trying to equate the haul the Twins got from the Mets to what we would have given up, I prefer using Sickels' grading system:

Mets guys (with the rank in their system):
#2 Deolis Guerra, RHP, Grade B+
#3 Carlos Gomez, OF, Grade B (undecided, may raise to B+. You guys are right about the injuries, but you also need to be more wary of Mets propaganda.)
#4 Kevin Mulvey, RHP, Grade B (may raise to B+)
#7 Phil Humber, RHP, Grade B-

Dodger prospects that fit into the same grade range:
#3 James McDonald, RHP, Grade B+
#4 Chin-Lung Hu, SS, Grade B
#5 Jonathan Meloan, RHP, Grade B
#6 Dewlyn Young, OF, Grade B-
#7 Chris Withrow, RHP, Grade B-

So, essentially, a package of McDonald, Hu, Meloan, and D. Young is almost equivalent to what the Mets gave up (slightly lesser since Gomez and Mulvey were borderline B+'s). Simply switch LaRoche (an A-) in for D. Young and all of a sudden our deal is better. That's a long way from the Kershaw/Kemp/LaRoche package we were expected to give up.

2008-01-29 20:14:33
62.   Eric Enders
or 3) LaRoche is sent down, or
4) Nomar is the second utility guy.
2008-01-29 20:16:17
63.   Andrew Shimmin
I wonder if there's correlation between facial hair stylings and Nomar/LaRoche or Pierre/Ethier preferences. Muttonchops mean you pick the right ones, mustaches mean you don't? Maybe mustache is too broad; handlebar mustaches might pick wrong on one, but right on the other, while caterpillar mustaches pick wrong on both.
2008-01-29 20:21:15
64.   Eric Stephen
63
And full unkempt beards make baaaaad choices.

http://tinyurl.com/2o8l5t

2008-01-29 20:23:35
65.   Eric Enders
64 I resemble that remark.
2008-01-29 20:27:59
66.   Eric Stephen
65
Channeling my best Rodney Dangerfield..."it looks good on you though."
2008-01-29 20:30:00
67.   natepurcell
I think Eric Enders is correct.

Nomar is considered the ultimate utility guy. Lucille is basically competing with Abreu and Hu.

Preferably, the utility players are Abreu and Nomar, with Abreu getting roughly 30 starts at 2b and 10 or so at shortstop.

Nomar should spell Loney, Laroche, be a PH specialist, and maybe play a little left field.

Pierre should.....well, you know.

2008-01-29 20:30:29
68.   caseybarker
"Thirteen" may be the most horrible movie I've ever watched.
2008-01-29 20:49:28
69.   jasonungar07
If we traded Pierre and LaRoche could take hold of 3b it really would be the best thing for all involved.
2008-01-29 21:26:53
70.   Bluebleeder87
16

Not to ad to TC's comment but I was a hall monitor in high school & would sneak girls out that way. To be really honest it wasn't GIRLS. It was only one girl, my girlfriend, I also had the key for the elevator which led to the teachers lounge.

2008-01-29 21:42:13
71.   Jason in Canada
54 That is a Classic, I mean classic video. He even takes a shot at the Dodger Blues guys.
2008-01-29 22:16:21
72.   Kevin Lewis
I now have a new project for work tomorrow, and it involves my bulletin board. That guy is a genius, a genius.
2008-01-29 23:52:26
73.   Zak
Late to the party, but here goes. My mom was 20 when she had my younger sister and then my parents were done with kids.

Now, I have two kids, and my mom turns 50 next month.

So, she's in there with the "average age" crowd.

Also, my wife's mom is only a year older than my mom.

2008-01-30 00:04:46
74.   Eric Enders
Boy, ESPN is sure on top of all the breaking stories. Sportscenter's Neil Everett (discussing the Santana deal) just reported that the Mets won the NL pennant in 1988.
2008-01-30 07:19:13
75.   D4P
Watched "In Treatment". Didn't love it, and don't plan to watch again (especially since it's on five nights a week). I didn't care at all about the female character, and finding out she was in love with the therapist didn't do much for me either. I also thought the process of discovering that she was the one who issued the "ultimatum" was kinda lame. I think we were supposed to feel surprised and like it was a huge revelation, but it seemed contrived and fell flat.

In other news, we only watched about 15 minutes of Breaking Bad before Mrs. D4P decided it was too dark for her. I guess I'll be watching it by myself, which is OK because I like this kinda stuff.

2008-01-30 07:40:03
76.   Jon Weisman
75 - You do know there are five different patients, right?

I didn't love the way the show started, but you might give it another chance. Otherwise, you'll just be like Bob, won't you ...

2008-01-30 07:52:34
77.   ToyCannon
75
That is exactly what happened when my wife and I started watching it. I also liked the darkness of it.
2008-01-30 08:04:32
78.   cargill06
why not join the bedard discussions again? if i'm not mistaken he is locked up until '09 for a good price
2008-01-30 08:10:49
79.   GobiasIndustries
75
I'm with you on "In Treatment" as I too watched the first episode last night. I thought the whole plot was kind of lame and fairly predictable. My wife seemed to like it so I'm doomed to watch the other episodes that are going to round out the week....Lucky me.

As for "Breaking Bad", all I can say is that show is awesome. I totally dig the premise and Bryan Cranston cast in the lead is magnificent. I don't think they could have done a finer casting job for the protagonist.
Find the time and watch the show, you will not regret it.

2008-01-30 08:18:53
80.   Kevin Lewis
I am half way through the second episode of Breaking Bad (I missed the first one), and I am really enjoying it. I too like the dark drama/comedy that is taking place. So, it will be another show that I watch by myself, just like Battlestar Galactica and Firefly.

I ran in to my first obstacle for the board project today. Where do I find photos/cards of all the players like the guy in the video?

2008-01-30 08:21:09
81.   Disabled List
I liked the episode of In Treatment I saw last night, with Blair Underwood.

78 I believe the Bedard-to-Dodgers rumors last time around centered on Kemp and Kershaw. Nevermind the fact that Kershaw has been declared all but untouchable; talentwise, that's more than what the Mets just gave to the Twins for Santana, and probably a little more than what the Mariners are offering. And that's more than I'd be comfortable giving up for a pitcher who would improve an area that we don't really need a whole lot of improvement in, and would weaken our lineup considerably this year.

Bedard is also something of a question mark. He came out of nowhere and has had two good seasons, but he was shut down last September for some reason, and that's a big red flag.

2008-01-30 08:29:49
82.   cargill06
81 ok so why not try to revisit an offer something between adam jones and kemp/kershaw, you would think the o's would listen to a better deal than seattle comes up with, like i said he's really cheap 3.4 million last year
2008-01-30 08:31:51
83.   ToyCannon
Not to mention the arm problems before the two good seasons. I don't see how we can match the Mariner offer without hurting the team.
Jones does equal Kemp in perceived value so he has to be included. Sorry but I just don't see how the Dodgers can be competitive unless Matt Kemp is a big part of the 2008 offense.

I like Bedard and at one time hoped we could get him without including either Kemp or Kershaw but after looking at what the Mariners offered I don't see how that is possible. That was a great offer and I'm baffled why the Orioles have yet to accept it.

2008-01-30 08:39:31
84.   regfairfield
82 Frank McCourt probably won't be happy that his 13 million dollars would go towards a long reliever.
2008-01-30 08:39:36
85.   cargill06
i know i'm about to become under attack, but kemp for bedard i'd have done it yesterday. kemps value will never be as high as it is right now and replacing loaiza with bedard will be more valuablable than having kemp playing every day instead of ethier
2008-01-30 08:40:38
86.   cargill06
84 any doctor would be happy if schmidt comes back as a long reliever, he's not pitching til at least may and who knows if he'll be affective
2008-01-30 08:41:17
87.   Marty
I'm not sold on Breaking Bad yet. I love dark comedy/dramas but this one leaves me a little queasy. Even though the lead character seems to be a smart chemist, he's done nothing but stupid things through-out the rest of the two episodes. I feel sorry for his wife.

But I'll continue watching and give it more chances.

2008-01-30 08:41:25
88.   regfairfield
86 That would be 15 million of his dollars. I was referring to Kuroda.
2008-01-30 08:41:32
89.   cargill06
i don't know what bedard is getting for money in '08 and '09 but 3.4 for a pitcher of his calibar is fantastic, than after the '09 season schmidt is off the books
2008-01-30 08:42:33
90.   cargill06
88 , if you trade for bedard you go penny, bedard, lowe, billingsley, and kuroda. he still fits in the rotation
2008-01-30 08:44:02
91.   regfairfield
89 Bedard wants eight million in arbitration and the Orioles are offering six. I have no idea how that works if he gets traded. I can't see him not getting the eight if the case goes all the way.
2008-01-30 08:44:44
92.   regfairfield
88 So far there's no indication that Schmidt won't be ready.
2008-01-30 08:46:08
93.   Andrew Shimmin
85- I'd attack you, but I don't care enough about this. Say one word against Eric Byrnes, though, and it's on.
2008-01-30 08:47:35
94.   ToyCannon
92
Other then common sense and history.
2008-01-30 08:48:46
95.   regfairfield
94 What can I say, I'm an optimist.
2008-01-30 08:48:53
96.   Andrew Shimmin
92- I read somewhere that he wouldn't be ready before May and that there was no way to know whether he'd be effective.
2008-01-30 08:49:23
97.   ToyCannon
93
You mean that 4th outfielder for the Diamonbacks who can only throw by launching his body airborne?
2008-01-30 08:49:45
98.   cargill06
92 i'm sure you've read the article on torn labrums, than throw in a torn bicep tendon and bursa scarring to boot. i'm not too optamistic
2008-01-30 08:50:33
99.   Andrew Shimmin
97- He's a complicated man; no one understands him but his woman. And his dog.

And me.

2008-01-30 08:51:21
100.   regfairfield
98 It's out of date. Labrum surgery isn't instant death for a pitcher any more, but there isn't enough data to determine how effective the new treatments are. (I'm assuming you're referring to the thing Will Carroll wrote three years ago).
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-01-30 08:52:15
101.   cargill06
trading for bedard, also fills a hole if lowe is not re-signed after this season. i see a lot of upside if that deal happens
2008-01-30 08:53:24
102.   Marty
I'd have about the same amount of optimism for Schmidt's comeback if he came back as a lefty.
2008-01-30 08:54:05
103.   cargill06
100 correct, what pitchers since than have recoverd well? the one hope for me about torn labrum is drew brees, he tore his labrum in december of '05 and was ready to go august of '06, and had the best season of his career. i know it's a different sport. but still it's a ray of hope
2008-01-30 08:55:26
104.   ToyCannon
99
You just like his hair and the fact he wears cordoroys.
2008-01-30 08:55:50
105.   Andrew Shimmin
101- Since just yesterday you were sure the Dodgers need to get Santana, but you're willing to go for Bedard, instead, now, who else would fill this need you see? Anybody who hasn't already been traded to someone else?
2008-01-30 08:57:21
106.   ibleedbloo
May be old news but I didn't see it posted. BennyP from the dodger board (he is the moderator) says "The Dodgers granted ptcher DJ Houlton his release so he could play ball in Japan this year".
2008-01-30 08:57:24
107.   cargill06
105 marquee pitchers don't grow on trees
2008-01-30 08:58:21
108.   ibleedbloo
Here is a link for the post from the Dodger's website. http://tinyurl.com/2pou3n
2008-01-30 09:00:46
109.   uke
Question for anyone and everyone... When do the Coliseum game tickets go on sale? I heard today? time?
2008-01-30 09:01:08
110.   Daniel Zappala
106 But wait, he was in the bullpen on that guy's board from the YouTube post! That message on the Dodger board has to be false.
2008-01-30 09:02:10
111.   Daniel Zappala
Everything's about hope and change right now. I hope Schmidt's surgery worked, for a change.
2008-01-30 09:02:52
112.   ibleedbloo
109 My presale day is today as a season ticket holder. I think general public is on the 2nd.
2008-01-30 09:04:07
113.   regfairfield
101 The problem is diminishing returns. You want to weaken something that we're bad at (hitting) to improve something we're already good at (pitching). The step down from Kemp to Delwyn is way worse than the step up from E-Lo/Kuo/McDonald. (Bear in mind I think Delwyn won't amount to anything and the best case scenario is he turns into Craig Monroe.) We also would go down to six outfielders on the 40 man without anyone capable arriving soon.

Here's the 2009 rotation right now.

Penny
Billingsley
Kuroda
McDonald
Schmidt

This is with Kershaw waiting in the wings, Kuo possibly still having some promise, and a free agent class that includes Sabathia, Sheets, and Oliver Perez. The only way to replace Kemp is by going free agent shopping and giving a long term contract to Pat Burrell or Adam Dunn. I do love those guys, but they're going to want a lot of years and are not going to age gracefully.

Pitching is this teams biggest strength. You should deal from where you have a surplus, not one of the thinnest parts of the organization.

2008-01-30 09:04:55
114.   Jon Weisman
I think it's pretty silly for anyone to definitively predict whether Schmidt will be ready or not in April, since there are clear signs either way. If you read somewhere that he would or wouldn't be ready, you either read a huge scoop that no one else had, or complete speculation.

He had a serious injury but the timetable for recovery he is on puts him on target to be ready to take the mound. Whether he'll have a setback in March, April, May, June or never is beside the point. Let's just accept the fact that we don't know. Certainly, that's the premise that the Dodgers are operating under. They're not counting on him, but they haven't dismissed him.

2008-01-30 09:05:02
115.   Jim57
Everyone here is overlooking or not talking about the biggest problem the Dodgers have. Juan Pierre. He makes a mess of the outfield. All the Santana trade stuff is just deflecting attention away from what is the real problem. We have a good starting rotation and good bullpen. The fly in the ointment is Pierre. We will do just fine with an outfield of Ethier/Jones/Kemp. Don't gloss it over gang, Pierre is the biggest problem with our team right now.
2008-01-30 09:05:24
116.   uke
112 oh, as am i...
2008-01-30 09:05:55
117.   ToyCannon
109
They go on sale to the public on Saturday.

They go on sale to season ticket holders today at 10:00.

Anyway for a laugh here is part of the message they sent out.

"Tickets are subject to availability. You may purchase up to
16 tickets. Tickets are available in the following three price
categories: $25.00 and $15.00. "

See anything wrong with that statement?

2008-01-30 09:07:37
118.   regfairfield
115 Never thought I'd see someone say we don't talk about Juan Pierre enough.
2008-01-30 09:07:43
119.   kinbote
I can barely keep up with the pace of conversation here. Stupid job. This is for about 70 posts ago, when the discussion turned briefly to time, the passing of it, and reproduction:

"I was twenty one years when I wrote this song
I'm twenty two now, but I won't be for long
People ask when will you grow up to be a man
But all the girls I loved at school
are already pushing prams."

2008-01-30 09:08:16
120.   Andrew Shimmin
105- I agree, but I'm not sure what that has to do with whether there are other pitchers you'd want, in place of the two you've mentioned, given that those two have already been traded.
2008-01-30 09:08:48
121.   ToyCannon
114
I'm going strictly on the premise that pitchers who had shoulder surgery during the summer will not be ready to pitch by opening day. I'm ignoring everything the Dodgers, Doctors, or Schmidt says. It is my opinion and I have no problem stating it.
As Daniel says, hopefully he will be ready and effective.
2008-01-30 09:11:58
122.   cargill06
115 true.

113 i'd much rather give a long term big money deal to dunn, rather than sabathia/sheets and i don't think i'm alone there

2008-01-30 09:12:32
123.   Jim57
Juan Pierre is our most glaring problem aside from the 5th spot in the starting rotation. I think that one of the Schmidt/Loaiza/Kuo/Stults will emerge and do a decent job in that spot. Playing Pierre is just absurd and makes the team weaker.
2008-01-30 09:12:47
124.   fanerman
I'm also assuming Schmidt won't be ready, but even then, our pitching is STILL deep and strong. So what if we don't have a potential Cy Young winner. Our rotation can still be top 5 in the league. Our biggest problem is our offense. And, there's one clear way to upgrade that. And we all know what that is.
2008-01-30 09:13:45
125.   cargill06
120 i don't think bedard has been traded, and there is still a small chance santana won't be traded

121 agreed

2008-01-30 09:15:13
126.   regfairfield
123 Everyone here realizes that already.

122 Why would you give a long term deal to someone with old player skills? I understand wanting to stay away from Sheets, but Sabathia?

2008-01-30 09:15:14
127.   Jon Weisman
121 - I've never seen you say Schmidt won't be ready. I think "I'll believe it when I see it." is a different mindset.

But if you want to go by Dodger history, what's most likely is that Schmidt will pitch in April, pitch ineffectively and then go on the DL. Which just goes to show again that there are too many wild cards to know one way or another.

2008-01-30 09:17:02
128.   overkill94
107 Neither do franchise outfielders who are under team control for 5 more years (not to mention what else we would have to give up).
2008-01-30 09:17:39
129.   fanerman
Oh man. There is nothing better than a glass of freshly squeezed orange juice.
2008-01-30 09:18:56
130.   Andrew Shimmin
129- Pff. Oranges grow on trees.
2008-01-30 09:19:52
131.   Jon Weisman
129 - New quote for the sidebar!
2008-01-30 09:21:26
132.   fanerman
Just because oranges may not be a "marquee" food and do happen go on trees doesn't mean I should trade a ton of freshly squeezed orange juice for some "marquee" food. I think my freshly squeezed orange juice is quite valuable by itself.
2008-01-30 09:22:28
133.   Kevin Lewis
Man, I thought we were being good by not talking about Pierre. You are preaching to the choir. We have just accepted it is out of our hands. It took a long time to get to that place.

What do we do with Loaiza if we get Bedard?

2008-01-30 09:22:29
134.   cargill06
126 simple, hitters a much safer investment. dunn will give you 35-45 hr and a .850-.925 OPS every year.

now i know you're about to say but you want to trade for a pitcher whose had arm problems. bedard is cheap for '08 and '09 and after the '09 season schmidt comes off the books and if you want to extend you can use some of that money. and as much as you guys love kemp he'll probably be a .350 OBP guy and i don't know how likey a consistant 40 HR season is from him....

ok attack

2008-01-30 09:24:05
135.   Kevin Lewis
Man, I thought we were being good by not talking about Pierre. You are preaching to the choir. We have just accepted it is out of our hands. It took a long time to get to that place.

What do we do with Loaiza if we get Bedard?

2008-01-30 09:26:21
136.   cargill06
134 i love kemp and his potential, but IMO he is a .275/.325/.500 guy and 20-20 which is very good, but i belive you guys think he is better than that
2008-01-30 09:26:25
137.   Kevin Lewis
134

Our offense would really suffer without Kemp in the lineup. I am slowly coming to the realization that Ethier might be dealt sometime soon. As much as it pains me to say that, I am much more comfortable with Pierre, Jones, Kemp than I am with Pierre, Jones, Ethier

2008-01-30 09:26:41
138.   fanerman
131 I found a place near work that happens to sell it. It's amazing. Brings me back to my days of yore, when my mom would make me some with our super cool juicing machine. And, at first you think I'm going off topic by talking about orange juice, but it's a set-up for a rather timely metaphor.
2008-01-30 09:27:20
139.   Kevin Lewis
But I would prefer Ehtier, Jones, Kemp

Just like it is on the Board!!!

2008-01-30 09:28:10
140.   Kevin Lewis
138

You are better off eating the orange. More fiber and it take longer to digest.

2008-01-30 09:29:25
141.   Jim Hitchcock
I just talked to a guy from Vero Beach who said
it's an open secret that the Orioles are moving into Dodgertown next year.
2008-01-30 09:29:35
142.   fanerman
140 I eat oranges. I like oranges. But I LOVE freshly squeezed orange juice.
2008-01-30 09:30:42
143.   ToyCannon
I love Sheets. For all the talk about his injuries he's the same age as Bedard and has pitched 1229 innings while Bedard has pitched 658 innings. He's also got a great K rate while having excellent control.

I'd give Sabbathia a contract before I gave one to Bedard. I love the big horse.

2008-01-30 09:30:43
144.   GMac In The 909
134 Do you actually believe this stuff or do are you posting all of these longshot scenarios to get a rise out of DT?
2008-01-30 09:31:07
145.   regfairfield
134 Dunn will give you that now, but big lumbering players like Dunn who have no speed and succeed by swinging as hard as they can don't have long and prosperous careers. Much like the Carlos Lee contract is going to look horrible by the year 2010, there's almost no way that Dunn will stay productive over the life of a six year deal.
2008-01-30 09:32:32
146.   Kevin Lewis
143

Don't you think Cleveland will do all they can to extend his contract this year?

2008-01-30 09:33:13
147.   D4P
76
You do know there are five different patients, right?

Yeah, I know that. But I didn't really care much for the therapist either. I think I prefer it when therapy sessions are part of a show rather than the whole show itself.

I didn't love the way the show started, but you might give it another chance. Otherwise, you'll just be like Bob, won't you ...

You make a good point.

77
That is exactly what happened when my wife and I started watching it. I also liked the darkness of it.

The beginning of the second episode started to remind me of "A Simple Plan", which I loved (and my wife couldn't watch).

2008-01-30 09:34:14
148.   ToyCannon
134
So we agree that hitters are a safer investment, yet you want to trade our RF for a pitcher.

That is exactly what Kemp will probably do this year. At age 23.

Try this:
http://www.truebluela.com/story/2007/11/21/162636/72

2008-01-30 09:35:43
149.   cargill06
144 yes, and i know this doesn't have much weight wing you guys, because as one person posted on a thread, you guys are more "intelligent" than analysts and baseball writers. but i asked the simple question bedard for kemp, as non dodger non-bias points of views and 8-0 answers came up of course or duh, i value thier opinions a lot as they have a lot of baseball knowledge but i know they're not intelligent in your points of view
2008-01-30 09:38:42
150.   Andrew Shimmin
I thought I didn't care about this, but I was wrong.

Which eight did you ask?

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-01-30 09:39:22
151.   ToyCannon
I wonder how Canucks blood pressure is doing? If you kill our favorite Canadian we will not be happy. That would leave Jason.
2008-01-30 09:39:58
152.   cargill06
mark, mike, ted, brian, kyle, brett br, brett bi, jared
2008-01-30 09:40:13
153.   fanerman
149 I think you put too much emphasis on big names and what they've done in the past and not enough emphasis on how old a player is, how much money he commands (either as a free agent or arbitration player), and whether he's going to decline or improve in the next few years.
2008-01-30 09:40:47
154.   underdog
19 20 22 Man, you guys are cruel! ;-)

Speaking of movies, help me settle a bit. Saw and enjoyed the heck out of Cloverfield last night. But is the Statue of Liberty's head really that small? It seemed like they took, uh, some liberties there but I could be wrong. What are the dimensions of the head?

--

Re Kemp - our offense needs him more than it needs another great pitcher, frankly. Bedard is great but our pitching is fine, with Kershaw and McDonald still to come. The offense has more question marks so the Dodgers are right to hold on to Kemp.

2008-01-30 09:41:56
155.   cargill06
don't get me wrong i love everyone's points of view on this website and everyone here seems to be very intelligent about baseball, but as one previous post stated "be careful if you go against the nerd inner-circle they'll eat you alive.'' i just find it hard to believe that everyone on this site agrees with everyone on every issue.
2008-01-30 09:42:15
156.   underdog
settle a bet, that should be.
2008-01-30 09:42:36
157.   fanerman
155 I guess you missed our lively discussion about the merits of kicking field goals the other day.
2008-01-30 09:42:48
158.   Howard Fox
117 ...three price categories...

you must have received a different email than I did...there is no "three" in my email

2008-01-30 09:42:51
159.   cargill06
in the history of this site has anyone disagreed with jon? i've been here for a few weeks and still haven't seen it
2008-01-30 09:43:15
160.   underdog
155 Read through a good chunk of last year's comment threads and you'll see that clearly everyone on this site does not agree with everyone on everything, far from it.
2008-01-30 09:44:45
161.   underdog
Get thee to an archivery!

Or better yet... "I don't like Bruce Springsteen."

(ok, I do, but I'm just trying to start something.)

2008-01-30 09:45:20
162.   GMac In The 909
155 I rarely agree with the stuff that comes out of ImprobableImpossible's mouth. And what is this inner circle of which you speak?
2008-01-30 09:45:58
163.   regfairfield
159 See the post where we signed Kuroda.
2008-01-30 09:46:20
164.   cargill06
154 and that's fine if you just want to compete for the divison and maybe win the wild card, and not do anything in the play-offs like we're so used to. if that's acceptable than hang on to the young guys at all costs and hope that they maybe good in '09/'10 and than maybe we can do something than
2008-01-30 09:46:31
165.   Andrew Shimmin
Jon'll delete your user account if you even hint that you think he's wrong. But there's a circle, within the nerdy cannibal circle, that is preparing the way for a popular uprising. All we need is a leader.

And some human hocks for soup; there's a potluck later.

2008-01-30 09:47:34
166.   fanerman
162 You don't know about it because you're not in it. Oops I've said too much.
2008-01-30 09:49:15
167.   Jon Weisman
155 - "i just find it hard to believe that everyone on this site agrees with everyone on every issue."

They don't always agree, which is why your opinion is welcome and you shouldn't worry so much when people do disagree with you.

159 - Yes, people disagree with me. It helps that I'm wrong sometimes - that makes it easier for people to do it.

2008-01-30 09:49:35
168.   Kevin Lewis
164

How would Bedard guarantee something better?

2008-01-30 09:51:45
169.   cargill06
i just think we all agree that there is A LOT of talent on this team, and i think we all agree probably not enough to win the pennent. we're only 1 or 2 pieces away from having a real shot to win the pennant. and if it's a player like bedard you have a shot this year and in 09
2008-01-30 09:52:19
170.   cargill06
it makes the team better. he dominated in the best offensive divison in baseball last year
2008-01-30 09:53:23
171.   regfairfield
I agree with your basic idea that you should do anything you can to get elite talents. I was all for giving up anything to get Miguel Cabrera.

The question is is Eric Bedard one of those irreplaceable talents, and should we gut our offense to get him. If it was still early in the offseason, I might lean towards yes, but now that the team is pretty much set, there's no good way to replace Kemp.

2008-01-30 09:53:56
172.   fanerman
169 But we lose Kemp. And our offense gets significantly weaker. You would agree with that right? Does our pitching improve more than our offense regresses, considering that our rotation is pretty strong and pretty deep as it is?
2008-01-30 09:54:14
173.   silverwidow
Pierre and Ethier flanking Jones in the OF is WEAK.

This Bedard talk is tiresome.

2008-01-30 09:56:37
174.   old dodger fan
After spending $36 million on Schmidt only to discover he was injured does anyone really think Ned would give up anything of value for Bedard until he shows he is healthy? If we sign him and he goes on the DL in May I think Ned will be looking for work.
2008-01-30 09:56:38
175.   Andrew Shimmin
I confess that my sportswriter reading list is pretty short, but I don't recognize the names on your list. Do they have surnames?
2008-01-30 09:56:47
176.   GMac In The 909
166 ... and its mystery is only exceeded by its power?
2008-01-30 09:56:49
177.   Jon Weisman
NPUT

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