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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Utter Deflation: LaRoche To Have Surgery
2008-03-07 15:27
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Nomar Garciaparra (right wrist) and Andy LaRoche (right hand) each got hurt today. X-rays on Garciaparra were negative; they haven't been reported regarding LaRoche. Silence isn't golden.

Jason Schmidt will open the season on the disabled list, Joe Torre said, according to Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise.

Jeff Kent and Takashi Saito are also still out for the time being, but Hong-Chih Kuo might pitch Saturday, according to Ken Gurnick of MLB.com.

Tony Abreu went 1 for 3 in his return to action.

Update: Yep - bad news. Tony Jackson of the Daily News says LaRoche "has a torn ulnar collateral ligament in his right thumb and will need surgery, which Ned said will take place in the next couple of days, probably in Los Angeles." He's going to be out for weeks, maybe months.

Comments (176)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-03-07 15:40:59
1.   Jon Weisman
I see Tony Jackson's blog in my Google ad.
2008-03-07 15:41:55
2.   underdog
La Roche is hopefully fine. We just need to wait for him to get home from his carpool.
2008-03-07 15:41:59
3.   Bob Timmermann
I see dead people in your Google ad.
2008-03-07 15:44:20
4.   fanerman
2 What an environmentally friendly ballplayer, that LaRoche guy.
2008-03-07 15:57:44
5.   Marty
This made me laugh.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/c6a5728047

No nudity, but drug references

2008-03-07 15:59:02
6.   Jacob L
I fell asleep before the end of the UCLA/Stanford game, and haven't seen any replays of the foul that was debated in the last thread. I just gotta ask why this is a big deal? Poor officiating influencing the result of a Pac-10 basketball game? Unheard of!
2008-03-07 16:00:42
7.   Eric Enders
The funny thing is, it was really a very well officiated game IMO until the blatantly blown call at the end.
2008-03-07 16:00:43
8.   trainwreck
From previous thread:

BH, that guy is going to be in for a let down. Jrue Holiday is the best player in the country, let alone point guard.

2008-03-07 16:01:54
9.   El Lay Dave
5 My company firewall deems that website NSFW - "Pornography/Sexual Materials". Guess I'll get my laughs later, at home.
2008-03-07 16:04:33
10.   trainwreck
5
That was good. That guy nails the Plainview voice down. I also loved the bowling alley on the television.

"I clear your bong load."

2008-03-07 16:06:28
11.   Kevin Lewis
Just watched the video. There was plenty of body contact before the block, so it looks like it could have gone either way.
2008-03-07 16:09:09
12.   Eric Enders
5 Holy cow that's funny.
2008-03-07 16:14:16
13.   El Lay Dave
From Gurnick's Notes:
Garciaparra said his wrist was numb, but it wasn't nearly as swollen as LaRoche's thumb.

I don't like the sound of that.

2008-03-07 16:14:35
14.   El Lay Dave
13 The wrist being Nomar's.
2008-03-07 16:16:08
15.   El Lay Dave
Also in Gurnick's Notes is this from Saito:
"I don't want to be on the mound Opening Day if I'm worried about my calf. If I have to, I would tell the coaches I'm not ready. I don't want to affect the team because of an injury. I would like to be 100 percent."
2008-03-07 16:22:15
16.   Gen3Blue
Was the game today on MLB-TV, and did someone see it. I had been under the impression that Laroche fell on his wrist, and this conjured horrible thoughts of a serious sprain, that could be worse than the already bad broken wrist. Now I hear that it was the ball hitting his thumb. A broken or sprained thumb is bad enough, but not quite as complicated as a wrist. Did anybody see this?
2008-03-07 16:23:35
17.   silverwidow
LaRoche out 8-10 weeks

Damnit.

2008-03-07 16:24:30
18.   Dodgers49
13 but it wasn't nearly as swollen as LaRoche's thumb.

I'm still trying to figure out how LaRoche managed to get hit on the thumb of his right hand by a thrown ball he was diving for while having a glove on his left hand.

2008-03-07 16:25:14
19.   trainwreck
17
Stupid life.
2008-03-07 16:26:31
20.   underdog
Crud.

Yep, more from tony jax:
http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/

Ah well, get the injury out of the way now, I guess. :-/ Maybe by the time he comes back (which would be, May?) Nomar could be in a bad slump and Andy will get another chance.

2008-03-07 16:26:39
21.   fanerman
17 Sigh. Alright Nomar. Keep mashing and stay healthy so we don't trade for Inge.
2008-03-07 16:27:16
22.   Humma Kavula
These things happen. These things happen. These things happen.

(sways, holding knees; sits up, removes i, n, g, and e keys from keyboard)

2008-03-07 16:27:58
23.   underdog
I'm still confused as to how he injured himself, too. Was it Ardoin's throw, or by falling on it?
2008-03-07 16:28:45
24.   KG16
17 - hope Andy likes, Vegas, he's going to be spending a lot of time there this summer.
2008-03-07 16:30:04
25.   fanerman
24 If Nomar is our primary 3rd baseman, Andy won't spend thaaat much time there. If we get Inge, then he probably will.
2008-03-07 16:30:09
26.   Eric Enders
"What is the recovery after ulnar collateral ligament repair?
Following surgery, patients will be placed in a cast for four to six weeks to protect the repaired ligament. At that point, gentle motion of the finger will begin. Most patients are able to play sports 3 to 4 months after surgery"

http://orthopedics.about.com/cs/handcondiitions/a/gamekeepers.htm

2008-03-07 16:30:43
27.   KG16
Hey, Furcal has a cannon, yeah? He could maybe play third if Nomar isn't producing and Hu can play short?

Yeah?

Please, someone tell me this can work.

Please...

2008-03-07 16:31:59
28.   underdog
26 3-4 months?! Why did they say 8-10 weeks then? Being overly optimistic?

Sigh. I hate Spring Training.

Ah well, Andy will be our starting 3rd baseman next year.

2008-03-07 16:32:31
29.   Humma Kavula
20 The proper thing now is to root as hard as we can for Nomar to hit and to stay healthy. If he does neither, there will be a trade and we will not like it, I promise you.
2008-03-07 16:32:31
30.   ROC
17 Diamond shares the bad news.

I already leaned toward's his blog more than Tony's, mostly because I think it's cool that a baseball reporter speaks the extra languages he does. Not complaining about elevators helps, too.

But now that Jackson's ego seems to be have become a factor, I've got no reason to visit given timely news comes from other sources.

2008-03-07 16:33:21
31.   fanerman
29 Exactly.
2008-03-07 16:33:54
32.   Dodgers49
23 Was it Ardoin's throw, or by falling on it?

From Tony Jackson:

>> In the top of the fifth, with runners on first and third, catcher Danny Ardoin tried to pick D'Angelo Jimenez off third. But LaRoche, who might have been screened out by Jimenez trying to get back to the bag, was hit in the right wrist by the throw. <<

2008-03-07 16:34:37
33.   bigcpa
28 In order for LaRoche to be as secure in March 2009 as say Loney is now, he would have to log 100 games this year and play well.
2008-03-07 16:35:43
34.   trainwreck
Just another reason to hate the St. Louis Cardinals.
2008-03-07 16:36:14
35.   El Lay Dave
Danny Ardoin is this year's Jason Repko. Except Repko had a legitimate shot at the major league roster.
2008-03-07 16:36:58
36.   Eric Enders
According to Dr. Frank Jobe's website, "with a complete tear, the patient can anticipate six to eight weeks in a cast prior to beginning strengthening and rehabilitation exercises."
http://tinyurl.com/23cbl6

The Dodgers' estimate of 8-10 weeks is frankly sounding a little optimistic.

2008-03-07 16:38:20
37.   bhsportsguy
From another site, sounds like you get the cast off in about 6-8 weeks but then you have to regain your strength.

You will be placed in a thumb spica cast after surgery for four weeks. Some surgeons will take the spica cast off at four weeks and then place your thumb in an immobilizing splint for another two weeks.

Some patients work with a physical or occupational therapist to help regain range of motion and strength in the thumb. Most patients are able to return to normal activity three months after their surgery.

2008-03-07 16:38:28
38.   Humma Kavula
36 Is LaRoche's injury a "complete tear?" If not -- if it is a partial tear -- does that lessen the healing time?

That is the straw I am currently grasping at. Damn... straw... always out of reach!

2008-03-07 16:39:07
39.   Jon Weisman
24 - Vegas is completely beside the point.
2008-03-07 16:39:45
40.   underdog
Welp, now I hope Nomar can stay healthy, as was said above, because I don't like the idea of whatever "Plan B" is in Ned's safe.

So Nomar, Abreu and then who? Angel Chavez (this year's Wilson Valdez).

2008-03-07 16:40:39
41.   Bob Timmermann
29 and 38
both contain the letters i, n, g, and e.

He lied to me!

2008-03-07 16:41:37
42.   Disabled List
Too bad Ethier can't play 3B. What a bummer.
2008-03-07 16:41:53
43.   Humma Kavula
41 You'r r ht. just thought t would b a fu y th to say.
2008-03-07 16:41:54
44.   Eric Enders
Also, the ulnar collateral ligament is the same one that pitchers tear which requires Tommy John surgery, except in the elbow. So this is basically like the thumb version of TJ surgery. Except it sounds like instead of using a replacement ligament from elsewhere in your body, they simply repair the one that's already there.
2008-03-07 16:42:30
45.   fanerman
Delwyn should buy a 3B glove to go along with 2B and OF (and his catcher's gear).
2008-03-07 16:43:52
46.   fanerman
42 I'd take a Nomar-Ethier 3B/LF over Ethier-Pierre 3B/LF.
2008-03-07 16:44:46
47.   ibleedbloo
You know its bad news when the title of the article you're reading changes 3 times before you get to the last post.

I liked it better when I was in the waiting room.

2008-03-07 16:46:33
48.   Icaros
All these injuries, and they never happen to Juan Pierre...
2008-03-07 16:47:51
49.   Eric Enders
Another bad thing about this is that even when LaRoche comes back, the Plaschkes of the world are going to pin a J.D. Drew-type reputation for fragility on him, even though this was a freak injury unrelated to his durability.
2008-03-07 16:49:25
50.   El Lay Dave
LaRoche entered the game as a PR for Nomar after the HBP. I wonder if/when he was scheduled to play today. Is it irony if he was on the field only because of what happened to Nomar?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-03-07 16:51:11
51.   fanerman
sigh. limb by limb and tooth by tooth, i wish andy laroche was bulletproof.
2008-03-07 16:52:13
52.   Humma Kavula
Perhaps it's time for a calmly worded letter urging Mr. Colletti not to make a panic move. This is bad, but let's wait and see how Nomar is, if he hits, if anyone (Abreu?) can fill in, and so on. Wait a beat and see what happens.
2008-03-07 16:53:22
53.   Kevin Lewis
I feel like Chunk in Goonies. Where is the whip cream
2008-03-07 16:54:15
54.   bhsportsguy
52 It is not as if LaRoche is never coming back, basically they are kind of the situation they were in last year.

Now, if something was to happen to another player, then I might begin to worry.

2008-03-07 16:57:00
55.   fanerman
30 I like Diamond Leung's blog, too, but for some reason it slows down my browser (Firefox) a ton. Is there some script I can disable or anything? Anybody know?

Thanks.

2008-03-07 16:57:19
56.   ImprobableImpossible
I get out of a two-hour meeting with the boss and flip to DT to get my spirits back up.

Well, there's always happy hour.

2008-03-07 16:58:34
57.   Zach the Ripper
Not only will we now have to watch Nomar flail at first pitch strikes for the next 3 months, but I'm guessing Laroche's injury also hurts our lineup by forcing Kemp ( or Ethier if Joe knows whats best for the team)into the 8th spot.
Laroche woudl have hit 8th if he earned the 3b job, but since it is now Nomar's, there is no way Torre bats Nomar behing Kemp or Ethier...the funny thing is we know he'll bat Pierre before Nomar. What a topsy turvy world this is.
2008-03-07 16:58:46
60.   underdog
56 That's where I'm heading now. Drink up, and then going to Cobb's Comedy Club. If that doesn't make me forget about Andy's thumb, nothing will.
2008-03-07 16:59:11
61.   Zach the Ripper
58, 59

Uhh...i'm gonna blame that one on my PC.

2008-03-07 16:59:29
64.   Humma Kavula
54 And what happened last year? He got Shea Hillenbrand.

Maybe the Inge rumor came out of nowhere. That's entirely possible. But if it didn't come out of nowhere -- if there was some small shred of truth, even if it was just a call to see if the Tigers would take Pierre for him -- it's a sign that the Dodgers have Inge on their radar... and having both third basemen go down, even briefly, on the same day, scares me.

2008-03-07 16:59:33
65.   jtrichey
44 They are the same ligament in name only. They are completely separate ligaments in actuality and the surgeries really should not be compared.

I am surprisingly not depressed by this. Nomar now has to either put up or shut up, and if he puts up, that can only be good for the Dodgers. June isn't that bad a starting time for LaRoche. The worst thing is this could be a power sapping injury for this year.

2008-03-07 16:59:45
66.   Zach the Ripper
62, 63

Yep, not my fault....but regardless...Sorry about that guys.

2008-03-07 16:59:50
69.   Bob Timmermann
This isn't nearly as bad as the 1986 spring training injury to Pedro Guerrero.
2008-03-07 17:00:31
70.   fanerman
61 62 63 That one, too?

That's a hypothetical question. You don't have to answer that.

2008-03-07 17:01:09
71.   Bob Timmermann
Good luck, Zack, we're all counting on you...
2008-03-07 17:01:35
72.   underdog
So if LATed refers to being preempted by a new post up top, and underdogged is an accidentally giant cut and paste, can a "zach the ripper" be multiple triple posts? that'd be cool.

okay, i'm off to drink and laugh and cry.

2008-03-07 17:02:10
73.   Marty
You must have the new Intel Tri-core chipset.
2008-03-07 17:02:37
74.   Zach the Ripper
How fast do you guys want that comment #'s to go up? I can keep doing it if we want to go for a record.
2008-03-07 17:03:45
77.   StolenMonkey86
The record is over 1000 from the 4+1 game. Just hit refresh instead of submit again. :)
2008-03-07 17:03:55
78.   Bob Timmermann
This isn't Inside the Dodgers. Jon isn't worried about the comment count.
2008-03-07 17:05:35
79.   Zach the Ripper
I swear it is my computer...I just hit submit one time...and didn't hit another key....it appears to be some sort of conspiracy to take the focus off my words of wisdom in post 57....and 58...and 59.
2008-03-07 17:05:41
82.   fanerman
We're not big on breaking comment records. They kind of just happen. Anyway, how the heck is your computer doing that? You don't have to answer that question.
2008-03-07 17:07:42
83.   Zach the Ripper
There is no place like home.....
2008-03-07 17:07:49
86.   evenatriple
Totally off the subject, but does anyone have suggestions for parking at the Coliseum for the 3/29 game? Somehow the idea of trusting the McCourts to handle properly a shuttle from Dodger Stadium for thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of people, seems foolhardy. I have this image of a line of 15,000 people waiting at midnight for the six buses to come back. On the other hand, the idea of fighting with 115,000 other people for parking in the area seems crazy too. Any USC fans have suggestions? I'm told that people in that area often "rent" their front lawns for football game parking. Does anyone have suggestions for residential streets in that area where this happens, and that might be easy/safe to get in and out of? Thanks
2008-03-07 17:08:15
87.   Marty
I'll be your Helpdesk: Reboot!
2008-03-07 17:09:56
88.   Jon Weisman
83 - Time for you to reboot.
2008-03-07 17:10:41
89.   Jon Weisman
87 - Hey, I'm as smart as the tech guy!

69 - God, that's true.

2008-03-07 17:15:52
90.   MC Safety
I could almost cry right now. Lets hope Nomar can top last years campaign.
2008-03-07 17:17:06
91.   trainwreck
60
Who are you going to see?

I worked at Cobbs last week for Last Comic Standing. I got to feel important watching the show from the balcony.

2008-03-07 17:21:41
92.   trainwreck
I see that Hal Sparks is performing. No wonder underdog had to go get drunk.
2008-03-07 17:23:41
93.   underdog
92 Sigh. I'm still stuck at work. Drinking and comedy has to wait. Stupid computer. Yeah, Hal Sparks. Not my first choice. I wanted to go see Dana Gould, whom I love, tonight, but my friends already had tix for this one and it was free and what the heck. I should sit in the front row with my arms crossed and look at him like, "You better be funny!"

And here we go.

2008-03-07 17:24:43
94.   Gen3Blue
The worst problem with this is it begins to make Andy seem like Jason Werth, Drew, or Nomar. I hope it is not true. There is something I am missing here, but I can't grasp it yet.
2008-03-07 17:24:52
95.   Andrew Shimmin
I haven't had a left arrow key for about six months. Tapping the sensor that's below the key (if the key were there, that is) still works.
2008-03-07 17:26:39
96.   Bumsrap
I am now rooting for D. Young to be moved to third and surprise there like he has been doing at second. There is always Dewitt.
2008-03-07 17:28:01
97.   Eric Enders
If Brandon Inge is Option C, I have to think DeWitt is something like Option J.
2008-03-07 17:29:51
98.   Bob Timmermann
America's streets are safe again. Marion Jones has entered prison.
2008-03-07 17:29:51
99.   Humma Kavula
97 Option J, in the BTF sense? Because no one wants to see that.
2008-03-07 17:29:54
100.   MC Safety
93 Dana Gould is hilarious.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-03-07 17:37:06
101.   fanerman
98 If you were a stand-up comedian and a friend of mine had free tickets to one of your shows, I'd wish I could go see Dana Gould but figure "what the heck" and go see you instead.
2008-03-07 17:49:12
102.   CanuckDodger
I have to be the only person here who felt HAPPY reading the news about LaRoche. Why? Because I had already resigned myself to the inevitability of Torre choosing Garciaparra over LaRoche, and whether LaRoche went to the bench or to Vegas, either way it would be a huge injustice directed at LaRoche, in my opinion. And it probably would have embittered LaRoche. But now, Torre can't CHOOSE Nomar over LaRoche. The decision has been made for him. And LaRoche can't feel slighted by the Dodgers the way Loney did last year when he got upset and asked for a trade.
2008-03-07 17:49:36
103.   GMac In The 909
56 Pssshaw. Like you know anything aboot happy hour.
2008-03-07 17:54:38
104.   fanerman
102 A lot of my sadness comes from being uncertain about whether or not Ned overreacts and decides to "add some depth." Part of me did feel relief for the reasons you said.
2008-03-07 17:57:23
105.   gpellamjr
102 That's exactly how I felt. One less thing to be infuriated about as the season begins. And Nomar is a guy I can root for. Now there's no reason not to.
2008-03-07 18:06:17
107.   Jack Dawkins
Was at the game today and had a good view --happened to be standing just to the 1st base side of the press box -- of both Nomar's HBP and the LaRoche injury. At the time Nomar's looked more painful and serious than Roche's, but alas . . .

At this stage, there just seem like so many other options -- Abreu, DYoung -- to act as a stopgap at 3rd so I also don't see why Coletti should be considering Inge or something worse.

Other tidbits if anyone cares: Kent's hammy may be bothering him but he took a lot of BP. Also saw him talking to Plaschke so brace yourself for a Kent column tomorrow.

Aaand, Mark Sweeney signs a lot of autographs.

Going to Sunday's game, so it looks like it will practically be another DT Day :)

2008-03-07 18:16:16
108.   regfairfield
Sadly, I think going to go get someone, not necassarily Inge, might be a good idea. Finger injuries have a tendency to linger and cause people to forget how to hit (see Julio Lugo and Coco Crisp for recent examples) and I don't know if we can count on Nomar to be healthy, or Abreu/Young to be productive enough to play a corner. This injury might have just killed our third base production for the season.
2008-03-07 18:16:36
109.   CanuckDodger
Jon, if Frip isn't banned from this site for #106 IMMEDIATELY I am going to be pretty angry about it. It is only out of respect for you and the other commenters that I have resisted telling Frip what I would very much like to happen to him and where he can go after it happens.
2008-03-07 18:27:36
110.   Andrew Shimmin
109- Jon's email address is in the side bar.

I don't think I'd have been able to convince him to kill D4P's account if I'd made it a public ultimatum. . .(just kidding)

2008-03-07 18:27:51
111.   Eric Stephen
LaRoche's injury is further proof that Kobe is the Pie Man. Since Kobe didn't have the finger surgery within his allotted time period, someone else in the vicinity had to bear that burden.

108
I don't share your pessimism toward 3B. I think April and most of May will feature Nomar plus a healthy dose of Abreu. I don't think Ned will go into panic mode or anything to block LaRoche long term. I'm sure the front office is still high on Andy.

2008-03-07 18:28:25
112.   natepurcell
At least its not his left thumb since he's a right handed hitter.
2008-03-07 18:31:08
113.   regfairfield
108 I'm actually not scared of blocking LaRoche right now. I'm more concerned about LaRoche being lame for the rest of the season.
2008-03-07 18:33:03
114.   Eric Enders
The Dodgers' Saturday schedule on Big Fox this year (as linked on The Griddle) is really weird. The Dodgers appear seven times in the first 12 weeks of the season, but only once in the final 14 weeks. They must think we won't be contenders.
2008-03-07 18:36:21
115.   Jon Weisman
I frankly found the viewpoint in 102 bizarre. I mean, feeling that it would be better for LaRoche to have an injury that could ruin his entire season, rather than having him repeat Loney's experience of fighting his way back to the bigs, even if he shouldn't have to fight - I just find that a little unfathomable. The powerlessness and frustration and negative feelings in the current scenario for LaRoche are much worse than in the scenario where he gets sent down for more seasoning.

That being said, it's just an opinion and didn't mean any harm.

On the other hand, Frip, it does seem that you have been going out of your way to antagonize people for sometime now. 106 was completely out of line. If I see another comment like it, I will have to ask you to stop participating - though I can't even tell that it would matter, since you don't seem to get much enjoyment out of it.

2008-03-07 18:36:28
116.   Eric Stephen
So now we know both LaRoche and Schmidt won't be available on opening day. What is the 25-man situation now?

Catchers (2)
Martin, Bennett

Infielders (6)
Loney, Kent, Furcal, Nomar, Sweeney, Abreu

Outfielders (5)
Pierre, Andruw, Kemp, Ethier, Young

Starting Pitchers (5)
Penny, Billingsley, Lowe, Kuroda, Loaiza

Relievers (7)
Saito, Broxton, Proctor, Beimel, Seanez, Kuo, Brazoban

Depending on Kent's health, I wouldn't be shocked to see Hu with the big club in April as well.

2008-03-07 18:38:18
117.   Jon Weisman
I'm going to read bedtime stories. Try to keep it cool in here.
2008-03-07 18:43:19
118.   Eric Enders
116 Hu's presence on the Opening Day roster might depend more on Abreu's health than Kent's.
2008-03-07 18:52:26
119.   GMac In The 909
Times like these really make me miss Boom Boom.
2008-03-07 18:55:08
120.   CanuckDodger
115 -- If I were in LaRoche's shoes, being sent to Vegas or benched in favor of Nomar just because of Nomar's seniority would hurt hurt SO much more than an injury that promised to keep me from playing for 8 to 10 weeks. A sports injury is an act of God, and in this case it is a relatively minor one (Frip's comment would make one think I said "Hey, glad to hear Andy's a quadraplegic. Woo hoo!"). What happened to Loney last year was an insult, with human agency behind it. It was no act of God. And Loney's reaction to it (he was devastated, lashed out at Grady and Ned in anger, and then played in Vegas so badly that he might as well have been injured) leaves no doubt in my mind that Loney was hurt worse (emotionally) than LaRoche is hurting now (physically).
2008-03-07 18:58:50
121.   Eric Stephen
120
I think you are underestimating the emotional hurt LaRoche could be experiencing now as well. He had a very good chance to win the 3B job, his first real chance after being passed over last year. To be hurt at this stage has to be devastating to him, in a "will I ever get a shot" kind of way.
2008-03-07 18:58:54
122.   Eric Enders
I've always wondered if perhaps everyone was a little too quick in attributing Loney's physical failures in AAA last year to some sort of pop-psychology mental anguish.

I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm saying everyone seems to accept it as a given, when it isn't.

2008-03-07 19:01:37
123.   Eric Enders
Matt Kemp, for instance, has been demoted to Vegas twice in the last two years and each time he tore the cover off the ball when he got there.

As did LaRoche, actually, last year after being sent down.

2008-03-07 19:03:44
124.   jasonungar07
Yeah Canuck as a fan I can see what your saying, but as an athlete this would be devestating. Way more so than being beaten out by a guy who makes more in a single homestand than you would have made all season.
2008-03-07 19:03:48
125.   Jon Weisman
120 - I don't really want to get into a philosophical debate, so I'll just agree to disagree with you.
2008-03-07 19:09:21
126.   CanuckDodger
121 -- "He had a very good chance to win the 3B job..."

But my original post states the opposite of that premise. Whatever I had hoped before, for the last week I have been depressed thinking it a certainty that Torre is going to go with Nomar because he the PVL.

2008-03-07 19:13:41
127.   Eric Stephen
126
I would generally agree that Nomar was the favorite, but there have also been rumblings about Nomar as supersub which seem to contradict that.
2008-03-07 19:16:21
128.   Suffering Bruin
117 I've been grading papers all day, dealing with teenagers, LAUSD bureacracy... and now this--one of the younguns gets a big time boo-boo.

Sure, I'll keep it cool. By drinking something cool.

2008-03-07 19:16:22
129.   CanuckDodger
122 -- Is it possible to say anything about psychology without it being dismissed as "pop" psychology? This is where I go all Old School and get my back up about sabermetrics, when it seems like forever since I have found myself on the opposite side of the saber people in an argument. Stuff that can't be quantified or measured DOES actually exist and is relevent to baseball. The game is played by humans, not by machines.
2008-03-07 19:21:05
130.   Brian Y
It was also being bandied about how Nomar might take grounders at SS and 2B as well and that Andy would've been on the roster regardless of who starts.
2008-03-07 19:22:20
131.   CanuckDodger
123 -- Each time Kemp was demoted I was fine with it, because I thought he needed the extra seasoning, and I expected that Kemp knew it too, so took the demotions in stride. Loney's demotion last year was an outrage to Loney, to me, and a lot of other people because it was so clear that Loney had nothing more to work on in Vegas. Coming into this spring training, I saw LaRoche's situation being analogous to Loney's situation last spring training, not to Kemp's.
2008-03-07 19:23:38
132.   gpellamjr
I have no idea how this will affect LaRoche emotionally. And I'd rather not invest too much into the consideration of such things. What I was expressing in 105 (not that anyone really cares what I think) is that there is a sense of relief for me that now I don't have to stress out about a stupid move being made. That I can just relax and root for Nomar. I find it extremely frustrating-- but in the way I feel frustrated when a softball game against a team that is much better than mine is rained out.

LaRoche is going to take it how he's going to take it. He'll be back in a couple of months, he'll still be young, and he'll be awesome.

2008-03-07 19:25:59
133.   gibsonhobbs88
Well since I got LAT'd in the earlier post before this one, I will just say that I hope Ned doesn't panic and i wish Andy well for a full recovery. That is a real tough break for the kid, I feel for him. I just hope we don't continue with an epidemic of injuries like we did in '05. This team has a lot of depth in the minors but I don't wish to rush to test it all just yet.

UCLA might have gotten a break last night but the PAC-10 has always been known as a whistle happy refs conference. I've seen the Bruins get the wrong end of some questionable calls as well. They did take advantage of it and dominate the overtime. They also never say die and fought back to even be in the position to tie the game so give them some credit for some fight and heart. I am wary of their hopes come tournament time because of their one glaring weakness of perimeter shooting. The Bruins have suddenly become allergic to making any shot beyond 5 feet from the basket. I'm not even talking 3 pointers, even good looks from 15-18 feet they are bricking with regularity. Opponents are going to pack that zone in even tighter in the paint if they can't enough perimeter shots to keep teams honest enough to open the lanes for Collison and Westbrook to penetrate and dish. Otherwise, I love the team's defensive tenacity and never say die spirit.

Go Dodgers, Bruins and Lakers, Make LA Proud!

2008-03-07 19:26:17
134.   Brian Y
the worst part about this injury "to me" is that I had a great talk with Andy while in Vero and he is genuinely a nice guy who wants to be a Dodger more than anything. He kept getting mistaken for his brother which was humbling to him and you could tell. It seems like he has a great head on his shoulders and will pull through this but you never know. I hope he does.
2008-03-07 19:27:49
135.   gibsonhobbs88
133 - should be can't make enough perimeter shots. Oops!!
2008-03-07 19:34:43
136.   Reddog
Having LaRoche get hurt immediately brings Repko to mind for me. What is happening with Repko - can he make the club? Can he be a starter, if not now maybe next season?
Is he having a good spring? If anyone knows anything, thank you.
2008-03-07 19:38:51
137.   LogikReader
Today is a sad day in dodgerland. I just hope LaRoche makes it back ok... eventually.

Please don't make a trade for Inge...

I know how to cheer myself up. I'll play the Hot Wheels game!

2008-03-07 19:40:40
138.   Bob Timmermann
137
Gas or rocket fuel?
2008-03-07 20:00:58
139.   Sam DC
I understand what you're saying Canuck but I have a hard time seeing a young player getting that ruined by a team handing a legit former superstar like Nomar a starting job, regardless of how many steps the guy has lost. I'm not saying it's right, just that it's one of those things that happens and that most young players can manage one way or another.

Speaking of gas and rocket fuel and keeping it cool in here, I'll add that it would some a lot less emotionally destructive than say, being Hee-Seop Choi and losing starts to Jason Philips who, as far as I can recall, was not a former batting champion.

2008-03-07 20:01:43
140.   Sam DC
Why does ESPN think I would prefer to watch the San Antonio/Denver game over the LA/LA game?
2008-03-07 20:02:33
141.   paranoidandroid
I will never cheer an injury for anyone. Never. Not Bonds, not Pierre, not even Milton Bradley. It is simply rude and beneath this great site to even say it.

That being said, I don't think Canuck would truly be happy LaRoche would be injured, it must have just come off wrong. He deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Perhaps Delwyn can take a few grounders at third and get a shot to stick around a bit. That is the only positive I can take out of this news. Speedy recovery Andy! You'll be a mainstain in the bigs for a long time, your start is simply pushed back a few months.

2008-03-07 20:05:10
142.   Gen3Blue
95 Andrew. My spacebar bounced off my keyboard a couple of months ago, but I haven't taken the time to fix it yet. It probably improves my proof-reading because I have to check if I have spaces between my word.
Incidentally, while I like to read Tot Holmes at Dodger Dugout, does he ever read his blog. It makes my comments here look like some of the most proof read copy ever.
2008-03-07 20:05:41
143.   Sam DC
139 "some" = "seem" a lot more destructive . . .
2008-03-07 20:09:58
144.   68elcamino427
Ned signed Nomar for his bat when Drew opted out.

Nomar was kicked to 3rd when the new young power bat emerged last season and claimed 1st.

Now Nomar is the 3B by default when the next new young power bat goes on the DL.

Please Nomar, stay in one piece until La Roche gets healty again.

2008-03-07 20:11:08
145.   Terry A
Dylan's story in the LA Times really makes Colletti come across as sympathetic about LaRoche's injury. The only direct quote from Colletti is something like, "Thank heavens Nomar's OK!"

LaRoche who? Andy what?

2008-03-07 20:12:45
146.   dzzrtRatt
Dodgers.com has Ned saying he won't be trading for a third baseman, but will play Nomar, Abreu and Ramon Martinez until LaRoche recovers.
2008-03-07 20:17:56
147.   Gen3Blue
146 I don't dare read it tonight, but it sounds good.
2008-03-07 20:41:56
148.   Izzy
Regarding LaRoche, I wouldn't get too concerned over how he is dealing with it. I am sure the shock is there enough,today. I think it was Andre Ethier who was responding to a question regarding his lack of playing time who said, "Hey, I have been battling since I started playing T ball." He is exactly right, adversity is in the nature of baseball. It's really just how you handle it.
2008-03-07 20:44:32
149.   Andrew Shimmin
142- In the future (once the robot rights movement gets it act together) I firmly believe your computer will be the first machine to successfully sue a human being for divorce.
2008-03-07 20:46:21
150.   scareduck
108 - Nomar is in fact a very good example of hand injuries lingering as well.

109 - I assume you are kidding. If not, well, may as well ask for a pony while you're at it. I don't see what he said rising to a banishable offense.

145 - the direct quote was

"We're fortunate that Nomar didn't have something more serious happen to him."

I'm not sure how you read "thank heavens Nomar's OK!" (as though Colletti's first thought was for Nomar) into that.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-03-07 20:47:38
151.   CanuckDodger
141 -- Yes, it is not about being happy that Andy got hurt as such, it is about being glad that he avoided having happen to him what happened to Loney at the end of last spring training. I guess I am alone in thinking that that kind of psychic wound is worse than the physical one. And that makes me wonder why I am alone in thinking that. Maybe I am just psychologically sensitive that way. If you want a glimpse into the workings of the "inner Canuck," consider this: when I was 5-years-old, one day I was walking back home from kindergarten (back in the old days when kids didn't get driven to and from school every day) and a drunk driver ran me down in the street (it was a hit-and-run, but the guy was later caught by police). My left leg was badly broken, and if I had landed differently after being propelled 20 feet in the air I suppose I could have died. I walked with a noticeable limp until around my mid-teens. Flash ahead to when I was 24-years-old. The woman I loved metaphorically "broke my heart." No physical pain, no long-lasting physical impairment like a limp. And yet which of the two things do you think I consider the worst thing to happen to me in my life? Which thing fouled up my life more, and longer, with the greater negative ripple effect? Psychology matters, and if I am wrong about what would be worse for Andy -- a hand-ligament injury or stupid Dodger-PVL-Love cheating him out of his due -- I suppose it is a case of me assuming he is "wired" the way I am.
2008-03-07 20:51:30
152.   Terry A
150 - Just thought it was an interesting quote choice (by the writer), given Colletti gets so much grief for his PVL leanings.
2008-03-07 20:56:07
153.   immouch
ok, i'm late to all this, and i probably read the previous 20 or so posts a bit to quickly, but did i just see that... ramon martinez might still be on our team and might pick up PT until laroche is back in the mix? we have hu... abreu... delwyn young... several batboys... clubhouse attendants... the lady who plays the organ... lots of people better equipped to get ml at bats than ramon martinez. sorry if that's insulting but... jeesh... when will ned go away?
2008-03-07 21:00:09
155.   immouch
151: also, that post has it all, eh? the torment of lost love. a tot nearly killed by evil. freudian questions of psychological vs. simple, physical pain... pretty interesting, actually.
2008-03-07 21:01:07
156.   Dodgers49
145 When I read Ned's quote I assumed he was just expressing his relief that he had not lost both players for two months.
2008-03-07 21:21:36
158.   Daniel Zappala
151 Canuck, that was actually quite touching. I appreciate that insight into your earlier comment. I think I understand what you are saying now.
2008-03-07 21:23:13
159.   scareduck
154 - okay, I failed to notice the post had been yanked by the time I got in.

151 - on that subject, I recently Googled the name of my first girlfriend... turned out she had moved to Phoenix and had posted an Amazon wishlist as a sort of registry for her second wedding. (She was briefly married in the 90's.) As her watchword was "living well is the best revenge", I consider myself to have won that particular war, considering. Phoenix? Orange County? Uh... not close.

2008-03-07 21:23:20
160.   Daniel Zappala
116 My hope is for Sweeney to get dumped, Young to make the team as both reserve IF and reserve OF, and Repko as an extra outfielder. That gives us a lot better flexibility and a better hitting bench.
2008-03-07 21:31:04
161.   Jon Weisman
151 - Canuck, believe me, you have no singular claim to being sensitive. We're just disagreeing with you.

154 - I don't think Frip literally hoped that your mother would fall down the stairs any more than you literally hoped LaRoche would get hurt. That doesn't mean what he said wasn't wrong, but I think it's clear that in his perverse way he was just trying to make a point. More than one person read your original comment, however mistakenly, as you being glad LaRoche was hurt.

I'm deleting 154 and 157 and I want an end to this part of the conversation.

2008-03-07 21:33:18
162.   immouch
i'm bummed about laroche. and i sincerely root for him to be back; i believe he'll be a very solid player for us and, beyond that, he seems like a nice enough guy. (though my injury sympathy fades beyond that. as injuries go, a 24-year-old pro athlete's thumb ranks below, say, kid oncology, etc... whatever.) anyway, all that said, is it possible there's a pony in the manger here? specifically, is it possible laroche's bad thumb sparks ned into a serious effort to trade the divine mr. p? i mean, the white sox might be willing to part with crede. and the white sox would be a great place for juan (a seriously nice guy who needs to take ball 4 way more often) to re-impress the world with his old world skills, etc.
i'm not being ghoulish; i'm being optimistic.
2008-03-07 21:35:07
163.   popup
LaRoche has certainly had his fair share of injuries. Paul Molitor is the only player I can think of who was able to overcome multiple injuries as a young player yet still have an outstanding major league career. Here's hoping that Andy will follow the career path of Paul Molitor.

Stan from Tacoma

2008-03-07 21:44:11
164.   LogikReader
Coby Karl: official sign of a Lakers Blowout :)
2008-03-07 22:05:13
165.   trainwreck
A poster at Minorleagueball.com said he had the same surgery as LaRoche and two years later he still does not have full grip strength back in his hand. He did say that Andy will probably get better rehab, but still this sounds pretty bad.
2008-03-07 22:07:19
166.   trainwreck
In Treatment fans:

I would take Kate over Laura in a heartbeat.

2008-03-07 22:08:49
167.   Kevin Lewis
I shaved my gotee tonight, and I already miss it :)
2008-03-07 22:16:13
168.   Michael D
Instead of Inge, how about trading Pierre for Eric Chavez? I'd rather find out what he has left over Nomar, plus it gives Ethier a job.
2008-03-07 22:40:03
169.   gpellamjr
166 My wife and I were just discussing that we think Kate looks like an alien or something. Not at all attractive. But I did think she looked much better when she was taking the trash out and not all made up.

167 I intend never to see my chin again.

2008-03-07 22:54:16
170.   Bob Timmermann
My Firefox browser is in open rebellion with me.

I may have to destroy it in order to save it.

2008-03-07 23:02:16
171.   scareduck
167 - I trimmed mine, but it's still on speaking terms with me. I shaved it completely off for my wedding and grew it back thereafter. I can't remember how long it's been since I didn't have a beard now, probably pushing 15+ years.
2008-03-07 23:02:39
172.   scareduck
170 - what's wrong with your browser?
2008-03-07 23:06:01
173.   MC Safety
168 That story got retracted.

Between Kobe (though you can't tell), Eduardo and Andy LaRoche, it's been a brutal month or so on the injury front.

Btw, 48 is hilarious.

2008-03-07 23:06:31
174.   Marty
My Firefox browser is still showing complete and utter disdain for Linkification. I'm considering amputating the left arrow key. Evidently, it's the pinkie toe of the keyboard. That should show it.
2008-03-07 23:18:27
175.   Bob Timmermann
172
It was continually crashing. I reopened it in Safe Mode and I apparently got rid of the offending extension.

RIP, my bookmarks.

2008-03-07 23:20:06
176.   Bob Timmermann
Then there's the weird thing about how my iPod (which has lots of space on it) refuses to sync all 1000 songs from a playlist. It will only sync 999 of them.
2008-03-07 23:32:54
177.   Just Blue
136-
LaRoche's injury immediately made me think of Repko too. He looked like he was finally putting it all together last year until he collided with Furcal, and now he has to re-establish himself just to be a pinch-hitter in a crowded outfield. He's having a decent spring so far, especially compared to Delwyn Young (at least offensively).

LaRoche's injury is devastating for sure. I hope he comes back strong this summer. Until then I'll be rooting for Nomar all the way. The optimist in me is excited for the shot in the arm our team will have when both LaRoche & Kershaw arrive at the all-star break (assuming that Kershaw doesn't magically crack the rotation sooner).

2008-03-08 00:05:44
178.   sporky
My Firefox kept crashing, even in Safe Mode. The spontaneous crashing stopped when I un/reinstalled Java.
2008-03-08 00:30:45
179.   Bob Timmermann
ESPN's site is doing EVIL things to my Firefox browser.

I shall stay away from it.

2008-03-08 00:31:50
180.   trainwreck
169
Well I think she is attractive. I guess that means I am attracted to aliens.

Take me home, ET. Take me home.

2008-03-08 00:33:05
181.   KG16
39 - my mention of LaRoche spending a lot of time in Vegas this year wasn't so much about his injury per se. It's more my concern (which I think I mentioned in the last thread) that LaRoche is going to get labeled as injury prone and now won't get a fair shot.

I'm hoping that LaRoche recovers and still gets a shot at being the starter at 3rd. But I think if LaRoche sees any significant time in the majors, it won't be with the Dodgers.

2008-03-08 00:35:17
182.   KG16
167 - I shaved my beard two weeks ago, and got a hair cut. Since then, I've been carded twice. And I'll be 30 in 10 days.

Me thinks seeing my chin is overrated; as is my jaw line.

2008-03-08 00:35:56
183.   Bob Timmermann
180
I'm on trainwreck's side here.
2008-03-08 00:42:22
184.   KG16
179 - ESPN is also killing Safari, so it's serious, whatever it is
2008-03-08 01:48:08
185.   Greg Brock
Just found out about LaRoche. What a total disappointment. "Deflating" nails it on the head. Total bummer.

Sigh

2008-03-08 01:56:52
186.   trainwreck
183
Thank you, Bob. I figured I was not the only person that finds her attractive.
2008-03-08 02:13:42
187.   trainwreck
In fact, I find her very attractive. She is a MILF. Can I say MILF here?
2008-03-08 03:50:00
188.   Jon Weisman
187 - Actually, no.
2008-03-08 04:15:47
189.   DXMachina
If it were me, I'd be more depressed about not being able to play anywhere for a couple of months (at a minimum), not even in Las Vegas, than I would be riding the pine in Dodger Stadium behind Nomar. At least then I would still have opportunities to show Joe and Ned that someone had made a mistake. Right now Andy has absolutely no control over anything. That has to be terribly frustrating.
2008-03-08 07:58:45
190.   Bob Timmermann
I'm staying away from the Worldwide Leader in Sports website for a while. It may be healthier.
2008-03-08 08:47:11
191.   Daniel Zappala
179 ESPN's site was designed by trolls with no understanding of user interface design.

182 I have never had a beard, aside from what I can grow in a day or two when I don't shave. I'm pushing 40 and I still get mistaken for a student on campus:

"Have you voted in the BYUSA (student association) election yet?"

"No."

[Long pause, wondering if I'm anti-election, anti-student, or just plain weird.]

"Well, will you vote for _____ today?"

"Sorry, I can't, I'm a faculty member."

[Relieved/embarrassed smile.]

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