A DT scoop! Thanks for the info, Jon. That's a shame about Raglani, who, with the numbers he put up in AA last year, probably had about a 50/50 shot of making the majors at some point in his career. I hope his other opportunities are good ones. Did you get the impression that he was encouraged not to return, or are the Dodgers sorry to see him go?

Anyway, a shout out should also go to Jon Meloan, who pitched six innings of one-run, three-hit ball at altitude tonight.

I thought Ned gave some nicely thought out answers in the ITD blog.

But then I would think that wouldn't I.

Marty, I did get your email and I am sending you a reply, we are good to go.

Meloan's progress as a starter is exciting.

Nice start from Jon Meloan. If he can start that's a huge plus for the organization.

Here's a picture of Terry Dunlap from last year, which speaks for itself: http://whiteyball.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/dunlap1.jpg

Nice to hear Edwin is doing good.

2--He still has a couple of headscratchers--although he did answer BigCPA's stolen base question:

"The stolen base provides great value to a team's success."

Um, no. It really doesnt Ned.

Then a guy asks whether the Dodgers employ a sabermetrician like the Red Sox and Padres do:

"A couple of our baseball operations staff members spend time doing statistical analysis. We believe that statistical analysis plays a role in decisions on players, but like reviewing their character, work habits, leadership abilities, injury history, it is part of the equation and not always the entire answer."

I'd like to know how exactly they measure leadership and character.

Then a question about minor league wages (which I found most interesting).

"All minor league players, regardless of when they get drafted, start at the minor league minimum of $1,100 / month. After their first year, we increase their pay depending on which level they are playing at, i.e., a first time Triple-A player would get $2,150 / month."

That really isnt very much. Doesnt their seem to be a gigantic divide between MLB salaries and say even a AAA salary? Doesnt seem like it should be so.

I can see why a guy like Raglani could retire. He can make more money (if he has a degree almost certainly), doing a regular job than playing minor league baseball.

One of the arguments that is always made in defense of Colletti is that none of the prospects he has traded have turned out to be any good (Tiffany, Guzman, etc.). It's starting to look like Edwin Jackson might be the first one to punch a hole in that line of reasoning.

Not that anyone here needs reminding: January 14, 2006: Traded by the Los Angeles Dodgers with Chuck Tiffany (minors) to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for Danys Baez and Lance Carter.

The short stint in LA last year not withstanding, is there a reason why Meloan isn't considered a top top tier pitching prospect? I don't hear much hype about him, but his minor league #s are off the charts (better than Broxton et. al), even in vegas.... he isn't old. Or is he in the plans in a big way and I just missed it???
He looks like a big improvment to the back end of our 'pen, why not use him in that role?

10. Primarily because there is very little hype around relief prospects in general, which is what Meloan was until this year. Broxton got some attention as a starting pitching prospect before being converted to relief at upper levels, thus more hype. Meloan's attention was also lessened because of the injuries he's gone through.

11
Seems odd to me that he doesn't appear on anyone's "top 100" list with those #s given the enormous value of a good late inning bullpen. You could make a case thats how SD won the west in '05, '06.

11 -- Broxton got a lot of hype even as a relief prospect because he was considered a CLOSER prospect. Even with good numbers as a releiver in the minors, Meloan has always struck scouts as a guy with a ceiling as big-league set-up man. His fastball, while nice, just isn't of the over-powering variety.

.... I guess im wondering why we are using some borderline guys in relief rather than letting Melaon dominate as a 6th-7th inning guy. Assuming his minor league success translates for the most part.

andruw jones has the 2nd worst OPS in baseball... money well spent

But I have seen Meloan listed in several Dodger Top 10 Prospects lists, at least, so it's not like he's a total unknown. (He was #7 on Baseball America's Dodger Prospect list.) There was a bit of a write-up about him in this year's Sporting News preview. Again, that's all just FWIW, but I think the Dodgers know what they have. I did wonder why the Dodgers didn't give him more of a chance in relief first, but a) when he has pitched at major league level, and even in the spring, he still looked like he had some work to do, and b) they saw in him some potential as a starter, which means building up his stamina and strength, which means back to the minors for awhile. But I was seeing him as a Scott Proctor type, someone who could be a good set-up man. If he can actually be a decent starter, that gives the team more leverage and options, though.

15 - OPS stats after a week+ of baseball should be left in the closet. Let's check back on him in a month or so, eh? Hopefully he'll find his missing bat by then.

8 Just to be clear, a player on the 40-man roster makes at least the minimum salary ($390,000) even if they are not on the active 25-man roster.

Meloan isn't an anonymous figure - he was discussed constantly last season. The only reason he dipped into the background this year was because they were moving him to the rotation, and that raised questions over whether he would make the adjustment.

18 - Is that true? I think some players have split major/minor deals.

16 I'll leave to this Canuck and Nate but is it possible that while Meloan may have been able to dominate at lower levels, he might be better suited to start.

13. True, if you do have the Future Major League Closer tag, you also get more hype, but I still believe he was on most people's radar because he was a pretty decent starting prospect.

17 hope you're right.

22

probably also b/c he was clocked at 100mph at one point.

21. I believe he did dominate at lower levels, but he was an injury concern, thus they wanted to limit his innings.

Because he was listed as the Dodgers' "Impact Rookie" in the Sporting News 2008 Baseball Preview (and because I'm procrastinating about doing actual work), here's their write-up on Meloan (which is obviously written pre-Meloan-back-to-starting):

"The tall, strong-framed reliever may have finally found his home in the bullpen, where he has developed in the minors' top closer. Meloan pitches aggressively with an 88-94 mph fastball, but likes to challenge hitters and tends to pitch up in the strike zone. He has four complementary pitches he can go to, including an 85-88 mph cutter, 83-85 mph slider, 77-81 knuckle-curve and 79-82 changeup. Repeating his three-quarters delivery is something he does very well and that consistency helps him maintain excellent command (3.3 K/BB ratio). Between Class AAA and AA last season, Meloan saved 20 games with a 2.03 ERA and was incredibly difficult to hit (12.3 Ks per game, .156 opponents' average). He has experienced elbow problems in the past and the Dodgers have monitored his usage patterns closely, but he was healthy in 2007. The ability for Meloan to succeed in short relief is already there, so he could open 2008 in the Los Angeles bullpen." (!)

Again this is FWIW, but it's kinda useful.

20 -- You are right, Jon. Minor leaguers on the 40-man roster don't get the MLB minimum. Something more like $90,000.

21 I believe the conventional thinking on Meloan has been that his stuff plays up considerably when used in shorter stints. I recall some concern about his ability to maintain his stuff deep into appearances.

Considering he was a near lock to make the 2008 team as a reliever, his conversion to starting leads me to believe it's something he will pursue rather seriously. Additionally, it's easier to move from long to short than from short to long.

I had forgotten how important the 40 man roster was for prospects. It must really suck when you get taken off the 40 man like Zach Hammes. Talk about a decrease in earnings.

24,000 a year or 90,000 a year when your 24 is enough of a difference when you have a family, no wonder Raglani gave it up. At best he might have been a fringe major leaguer but the reality was much higher that he would never have gotten a shot.

I remember Oscar Robles saying how important it was to even play in the major leagues for one day because his whole family was covered the rest of the year by the medical plan.

Oh man, Peavy again tonight?

Unfair, unfair!

Sigh. Nice for the D's to be back home, at least.

Per the CBA, players signing a major league contract (read: 40-man roster) for the first time, their minimum salary while in the minors is $31,250 (it goes up to $32,500 for 2009-2010).

Players signing a second (or later) major league contract, or with at lease one day of MLB service time, the minimum salary in the minors is $62,500 (raises to $65,000 in 2009-2010).

Part of the dispute of Tony Abreu last season involved his placement on either the MLB or Minors DL, and thus what salary he would receive during that time (prorata of MLB minimum of $380k or minors salary of $30k).

30
[Padres fan]: "Oh man, Penny again tonight? He shut us down after our lucky first inning Saturday. We can't hit that guy! Unfair!"

23
Think of it this way: who would you rather have as a hitter (regardless of salary or position) in 2008: Kendall or Andruw?

32 True, but Penny doesn't own the Pads quite as much as Peavy owns the Dodgers.

But maybe he'll have less pine tar on his hands tonight... speaking metaphorically, of course!

31 I knew I should have looked at the CBA.

31 Blake Dewitt and Ramon Troncoso earned more last week than they would have playing the entire yaer at Jacksonville.

More on Raglani. He didn't like his assignment and wanted out.
http://tinyurl.com/55wcuc

"I was under the impression that I was going to Las Vegas," he said. "I went into (spring training) and everything that I had been told was that that I'd be going to Triple-A. Then they told me about a week and a half ago that I'd be back in Jacksonville. I had decided a long time ago that I did not want to go there for a third straight year. … Needless to say, I was pretty disappointed with the organization."

Raglani and his agent unsuccessfully lobbied the Dodgers to release him from his contract. They then asked the team to trade the outfielder, but that effort was also fruitless. "They said they were unable to work anything out," Raglani said. "I'm skeptical of how hard they tried."

The other day I read somewhere that he was still taking college classes in the offseason; now he's re-enrolled.

It does seem weird they wouldn't promote Raglani to AAA. They had Paul and Repko, I understand, but you'd think there'd be room for him in Vegas (even with George Lombard and His Orchestra). But scouts didn't really seem to get that excited about him either, in general.

C'mon Jon, let's have a "Raglani gets Lombarded" headline! :)

In the Old Friend Bowl, Hendrickson beat Odalis Perez.

IP H R ER BB K HR
MH 7.0 3 1 1 0 2 1
OP 5.2 6 2 2 0 6 0

Hendrickson did it on 80 pitches (52 strikes). The two runs charged to Perez (93 pitches) scored on a double off the reliever. Marlins won 4-3.

40 Maybe the Nats aren't winning the pennant after all.

38 Despite 85 BB, he did K 139 times and hit .248 (.245 the previous year), albeit with some power - 21 HR - at age 24 at AA. I've never seen him, but one might imagine that's a player with a hole in his swing or slow bat or something.

I'd rather have Lombard or Griffin as insurance instead of Raglani. Still they should have done the right thing and released him. If he was going to AAA for the 3rd year they had no plans for him. Why block his future?

42 You mean his lofty #42 ranking on Scout.com's list of Dodger prospects was a fluke? ;-)

I wonder what Cory Dunlaps history is that he would rather be fat and lazy then make 1/2 million for a few years at the minimum?

He had enough baseball talent that he could have had a career if he'd made the effort.

43 Sounds like the same hard line that led to our losing Kyle Blair.

That's a bummer for Raglani, but it still seems like an odd choice to me. I know everyone's priorities are different, but if it were me I'd be hanging on as long as I could. Not only do you still have hope for the majors (which means big bucks), but you get to play baseball every day. There's always time to get your degree and/or find a 9-5 job after you're done.

8 - I'm a proponent of the stolen base being part of the offense, but I'll leave that issue aside because nobody is going to change anyone's mind around here on the value of it.

But measuring a guy for things like "character and leadership" aren't that difficult to do. On character: has he gotten in trouble in HS or college? Spent any nights in a holding tank? How's he interact with his family? Leadership isn't that hard either: have scouts watch him at games, is he ignoring his teammates or interacting with them? Does he yell at a guy for striking out with a runner on third or does he try to pick him up? Those sort of things tell you a lot about a player that aren't in the numbers.

LA Observed reporting that Geffen is in talks to buy the Times.

49 Did you get my e-mail sir?

50 Yes I did. I'll call.

Raglani rejected; Tiffee tiffed. What's next?

48 -- Don't waste your time. If you notice, the question was phrased to be impossible to answer, "how they measure leadership, etc." Of course it isn't something that can be measured. And Coletti, in his answer, never indicated that they were measuring intangibles.

It's great how sports is a profession that many customers don't care if the people purveying what they're paying for are pieces of crap as long as they're good at what they do.
Ignoring everything but the stats is like hiring someone based on their resume and never checking their references.

52 - Meloan moanin'?

30 my buddy is going, punk!

So about Raglani; was this guy a contender or just a guy who at age 25 took a hard look and decided that the road ahead to the big show is too long and his skill set a bit too questionable to stick it out?

I've wondered about the personal economics of some of these guys who are on the bubble of making it, but maybe not and they are getting to the point in their lives when it's time to settle down, get a mortgage and a mini van along with a real job.

The whole topic and story arc of someone trying to make it in the big show would probably make a good book I think.

56 ...or a script?

I'm writing this script that has a Raglani-type character in it, but it keeps feeling like a wannabe Bull Durham so I'm changing a lot of it. Still, I find this kinda story interesting.

I do think the Dodgers should do the right thing and just release the guy - although it's their right, and maybe he should have been more patient because it's possible, maybe even likely, that he'd get a call up to AAA this season. Still, he doesn't seem to have a lot of long term ML potential.

Raglani at the Crossroads - could be a good title. Or a really bad one. I see Ryan Reynolds, or perhaps Joseph Gordon Levitt, as Raglani.

56 The odds are long if you are a first round pick to get to the show.

47 maybe it's just me, but when I read his reasoning for retiring I had this image of one of the fairer sex nagging him about not bringing home enough money.

52
McDonald farmin'?
Chavez chafed?

I don't think the organization can cave to every demand or threat. I think the relationship between the organization and it's player is many ways like parenting. Sometimes a hard line is necessary.

Penny perturbed

tiger needs a round in the 60's today.

Kershaw K'ing

Repko Reckless

They all need a round in the 60's

I don't think the Dodgers could allow the precedent of releasing somebody because he didn't like his minor league assignment. Guys with better records than Raglani have been denied promotion. Sub-.250 batting average with a ton of SO's? Nothing automnatic about getting promoted with that season behind you. Ultimately, Raglani getting out of baseball and getting on with his regular life is probably best for him. I saw no MLB future for him and not even a 40-man roster spot for him, so he'd be making very little money in the years ahead if he stuck with the game.

63
Didn't you learn your lesson from last month re: Tiger? Or are you trying a reverse jinx? :)

68 ya seriously, but if he shoots another 72 today he'll be 8 shots back, but this time he'll behind better players. right now snedeker is -6, phil -4, and furyk -3 all with some golf left in the 2nd round. not to mention zach who is 2 shots ahead of tiger and can pick up a few more if tiger only shoots 71 or 72

59 That certainly occured to me right near the top of the list.

A friend of mine went to college on a baseball scholorship and did pretty well. He was a late round draft pick of the Yankees. He went to camp and was assigned to Class A but decided not to go.

A few months earlier my friend had talked with a friend of his older brother who spent 8 years in the minors before being cut and regretted the whole thing. 30 years old, no experience at anything except playing minor league baseball.

My friend (he is in his late 40's now) has no regrets. He has a good career. I wonder if he ever wakes up in the middle of the night and thinks, "What if..."?

Your morning laugh will be provided today by FireJoeMorgan, in a new blog entry about an article titled "Baseball Stats Mania Rates a Zero."

Do read it and keep all liquids out of your mouth until you're done.

71 sure, regrets if doesn't work out and nothing gained, but certainly regrets if he never tried.

72

I saw that yesterday and it made my day

72 The article in question, btw, was written by Jim Armstrong, the same Armstrong who writes these terrible, really short pieces of nonsense for the Denver Post. Sometimes about the Broncos, sometimes about other teams, sometimes about Brett Favre, always very lazy and practically embarrassing. Seriously, he'll make you appreciate Plaschke. So it's almost too easy, but I enjoyed the takedown all the same.

69
I think anything 70 or below will be fine for Tiger today. Obviously a 67 or so would be great, but he'll be fine if he's within 6 teeing off early tomorrow making a run before others tee off.

Golf Thoughts...

Cool, I needed to get back to work anyway. ;-)

76 ya that's what i was thinking 70 would be fine but he needs a round in the 60's

tiger birdied 1

67. Good point. I would think the Dodgers would atleast attempt to pursue a trade. Perhaps they did, who knows. Three years in a row at AA, especially at his age really means 0 future with the Dodgers. He'd probably have 0 future with any other team, but why not trade the guy and give him a shot. You wouldn't be setting a precedence if you traded the guy quietley. But you are right that it's probably best for him to pursue other interests and get a real job, save some money and start building up his 401K. The later in life you start saving the worse off you are when you retire.
vr, Xei

77. haha, atleast it's sports related and there isn't a Dodger game going on, but I feel your pain. I'm going to go find a pole to sit on. :)
vr, Xei

What a coincidence...

Me and my second graders are studying alliteration today and I used some of your examples today with them. They know about my dodger love affair so they tried to use them in their poems... here's the winner:

Dodgers don't double dare dentists.

I think the relationship between the organization and it's player is many ways like parenting.

That's a little creepy, no? Just because several Dodgers want to kill Flanders doesn't necessarily mean it's Oedipal.

But it does make me wish I'd thought to seek a CBA with my parents, when I was a kid. I don't know how a strike would have been different from my general laying about, though. More signs, maybe.

67
And what precedent would that be? Choice between being a fair slaveholder and a bad one.

It is not like they have much of an investment in him. He got a little bonus and has been getting the minimum since.

52

Furcal bifurcated

Am I the only person alive who roots against Tiger?

86 no i have a buddy roots against him with all his heart and soul, mainly because he disagrees with me that tiger is the most dominant at his sport more than anyone else ever was.

I thought I was the only person on DT who rooted for the Tigers?

Raglani would have qualified to be a minor league free agent after this year, right?

86 phil and rory probably do also

For starters, 51s' Meloan finding his groove

>> Rated the Dodgers' eighth-best prospect by Baseball America, Meloan is making the transition from reliever to starter this season. <<

http://www.lvrj.com/sports/17543879.html

89 Raglani would have qualified to be a minor league free agent after this year, right?

I believe the article mentioned the Dodgers own his rights for two more years.

I stopped rooting for Tiger after he changed his golf swing, started sucking (by Tiger standards), the media asked him about it, and then he got all defensive.

92- Yeah, I didn't notice it, but I was counting his college years. Oh well.

I've been rooting for Tiger since he was a teenager. He's become probably the only overdog I route for in individual sports, which is a nice change of pace for me.

80 Whether the Dodgers did or didn't at least try to trade Raglani [and this seems to be one of Raglani's beefs], he was unlikely to generate any interest. Is Colletti [or an associate] really supposed to call every single team and ask if they want a pretty undesirable prospect? The point about precedent is a strong one, as it would open the door for any prospect to have recourse if unhappy about an assignment.

WE for Raglani: 0%

Rooting for Tiger is like rooting for the Yanke--, uh, Red Sox. It's too easy, and everyone else already beat you to the bandwagon.

Just a little something about an organization that had a huge vested interest in a player and still granted him his release when he requested.
From BP:
" C.J. Henry, Yankees (No. 17 overall, $1.575M bonus)
Henry is just about ready for somebody to stick a fork in him. He never produced with the Yankees, and after going to Philadelphia in the Bobby Abreu deal, he hit just .184/.238/.322 last year at Low-A Lakewood and requested his release. The Yankees are giving him another shot this year, but the player who could have been playing basketball with the national champion Kansas Jayhawks had he not tried baseball is expected to give hoops another shot next year, joining his brother Xavier, who is generally seen as one of the top players in the country."

97 no rooting for tiger is like rooting for the harlem globetrotters.

96
No, why bother with the effort, simply release him so he can make the best deal possible.

93 Which time, 1998, 2003 or 2005?

100 I understand our investment in him was minimal, but it was still our investment, starting from the time he signed with us. Morally, it's easy to make the case for releasing him; professionally, it isn't so easy. Maybe we still saw a glimmer of hope for him and we weren't quite ready to give him up for nothing. We played hardball and so did he.

2003

95 I've like Tiger since I saw him on That's Incredible

96 100

I have to wonder if the Dodgers weren't also worried about the precedent it might set to let a AA fringe player call the shots here, especially if he was carrying a beef.

I suppose they wouldn't be too keen about having a player who didn't like his assignment get out of it.... it's a bad business model.

Jim Baker's Second Annual Knee-Jerk All Stars

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7354

105 yeah, my point in 61

6 Terry Dunlap looks Jim Campanis in uniform on opening day this year!

Maybe Raglani will write a book. Ball Four: The Minor League Edition

87. Your friend is right, there have been a few more dominant chess masters in history than Tiger has been at golf. That's right, if you can consider golf a sport, I'll call chess a sport and only stop when you admit then that golf is not a sport.

106
I'd like to see him do the opposite version.

Andruw Jones and Russel Martin would certainly be on the list.

110
You must have a very limited definition of what a sport is. Would you care to elaborate for us?

110
Really? Golf is not a sport? You realize golf carts aren't permitted on the PGA Tour right?

110 they walk about 20 miles a tournament. it's a sport.

112. Why? You don't consider chess a sport?

Golf is more a sport than auto racing ...

114. 20 miles? Can I call the five miles I walk around in my offce per day a sport, we're competing with other business?

sport= skill, physical endurance
game= brain power, no physical endruance

poker, and chess are not sports they're games.

Dodgers' Loney a major fixture now

http://www.dailybreeze.com/ci_8885579

116. Way to pull in the only "sport" I dislike more than golf.

uh oh, I can sense our conversation up till game time

Just because something is a competition doesn't mean it's also a sport. If it doesn't require any kind of physical dexterity or display of strength, it's not a sport.

Chess, poker, ballroom dancing, scrabble, spelling bees: Not sports.

I'm still torn on auto racing.

118. I consider Candyland a game, but it requires no brain power, where am I wrong?

122. I would think that ballroom dancing requires a great deal of physical dexterity, why would it not?

123 do you want me divide the game category into childrens game, and adults game?

Looks like Golf chat just landed in the sand trap! :) vr, Xei

Where do hot dog eating competitions fall?

125. No, because frankly, I'm still not sure how golf requires physical endurance, walking 20 miles over 4 days, just doesn't cut it for me. Of course, as long as this discussion keeps the talk away from the Masters, then I'm happy.

I think the delineation is troublesome between game/sport/pastime/hobby

Darts .... game that is sort of a sport (hand/eye coordination needed)
Fishing .... a hobby/pastime that became a sport
Car racing ... not a sport (personal peeve)
Horse racing ... a centuries-old "sport" (but not fair to the animals)
Bowling ... sport (barely)

Others?

Skeet shooting?

105 The Raglani situation seems like it there are too many shades of gray to judge it so black and white. I would much rather see the organization evaluate these types of situations on a case by case basis and not worry about any sort of precedence. I think painting everything with a broad brush is a much worse strategy than letting a near has-been out of his contract.

The organization made it pretty clear to Raglani that he wasn't viewed as a future contributor by sending him to AA again. If they have no use for him, why keep him around? Let him try to latch on with an organization that doesn't have that much depth in the OF.

128 try walking 5 miles up and down hills in 90 degree heat and see your legs feel, while have to keep your concentration up... i'm guessing you've never golfed.

I am a tournament Scrabble player (seriously!).

Our tourneys are usually weekend-long events, playing 12-15 games long, sometimes 8 games in one day. So, mental and physical endurance IS required.

Nonetheless, it is NOT a sport in my eyes. It is a game/hobby.

As much as I can't stand to watch golf (playing it is Ok), I can't see how you would not call it a sport. Perhaps it's not much of one compared to many other sports, but I can't see how you could deny that it was a sport. vr, Xei

and don't forget that those golfers have to hit their shots with people taking pictures of them during their backswings. :)
vr, Xei

I believe golf is a sport .... understanding the physics of the game, being able to produce a particular type of shot under totally differing circumstances each hole. "Competing" against others who are playing the same course with the same conditions, while they possess different physical and reasoning/logic tools.

Golf may not be glamourous .... but its a sport.

If you can do it while drinking a beer, it's not a sport.

Or, if John Daly can do it, it's not a sport.

Walking up and down the course is not what makes golf a sport. The physical acumen, dexterity, skill, and yes, strength required to hit a golf ball from the tee into the hole, is what makes it a sport.

If Juan Pierre can do it, it's not a sport.

132. I have, many times, frankly, I find it very dull and not remotely interesting. Maybe if they didn't allow caddies and the golfers had to carry their clubs I'd be more respectful, but not much given that I still would do 4 rounds a day as a caddy and then have to go play soccer aferwards in the summer. I'm sorry, it's just not very challenging to physical endurance at all.
Like I said, I have not problem call it a sport as long you call my playing tiddly winks with my children the same "respect" esepcially since we do races around the house in between rounds.

138 Please.. that would definitely exclude baseball as a sport. If Mo Vaughn or even David Ortiz can do it...

138 If John Kruk can do it, it's not a sport.

It's funny where people make their stand on what is and isn't a sport. Me? I always say that if a judge decides the winner then it's not a sport. Golf? A sport. Dancing, figure skating, cheerleading? Not a sport.

Then you'll get the inevitable "But referees decide who wins!" and everything devolves from there.

138 Daly can't do it. That's why he keeps withdrawing from tournaments. Too grueling.

Battlebots .... now THAT's a sport!
http://www.battlebots.com/

137 - then baseball is not a sport? (I'm thinking weekend softball with kegs at second base and in the dugouts)

Pinball? I kinda think its a hobby .... but it DOES require great reflexes and dexterity.

144. I believe that is the Mike Wilbon definition of a sport. Of course, that doesn't help with regards to the definition of a sport versus a game.

139. So I assume that you are going to give billiards, darts and fishing the category of sport?

144 So boxing = not a sport?

137

sex?

Tonight's Dodger starter Brad Penny has made 100 career starts as a Dodger. The team has a 58-42 record in those starts, and Penny has pitched at least 6 innings in 69 of those starts. He has a 3.70 ERA in 596.1 IP.

There have been only 29 pitchers to make 100 or more starts as an LA Dodger, and Penny's 119 ERA+ ranks 5th (or tied for 4th with Derek Lowe; not sure about the rounding).

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/7XQE

151 But a judge decides the winner... at least in my house.

Some people think golf is a sport. Some don't. Neither side is going to convince the each other. It's sort of like debating religion with a holy roller and an atheist.

147 Baseball barely qualifies as a sport. For both the beer and the John Kruk factor.

150

A comparison ....

Boxing is a sport (but a dumb one, given the object is to pummel one's opponent into submission, and the inevitable toll it takes on the participants in the long run).

Football is of course a sport but its not perceived as dumb, because the physical toll it takes in the long run is perceived as a by-product (not the object) of the nature of the game.

Boxing is the sport that makes the whole thing fall apart, because sometimes it's decided as a sport (when there's a knock out) and as a competition (when there's a decision).

It also doesn't determine if it's a game or not, but I usually just call those stupid so I don't have to focus on them.

here's my definition of sport: physical competition against other persons which require feats of strength or dexterity.

So... baseball, basketball, hockey, football (both kinds), water polo, boxing, mma all sports.

Poker, billards, darts, chess, checkers, etc, not a sport.

Fishing, horse racing, auto racing, and events requiring judges to determine a winner are competitions but not sports.

So, three categories: Sport, competition, game.

154. I say we're all winners.

158 - golf falls into sport, in my system, by the way.

154 Amen.

158 What about golf? There's competition against other persons but it's not direct. That's why I was okay with Mickelson's comments from yesterday, because he is not in direct physical competition with Tiger. Why not be honest about Tiger since he's really competing against himself?

That was a hell of a threadjack, Penarol. What were we talking about before this started?

158. Dexterity is defined as skill with hands, how are billiards or darts not requiring a feat of dexterity?

So, over/under on when the mystery substance appears on Peavy's hands tonight?

164 - billards and darts fail on the fist prong: physical competition.

163. The purpose of this threadjack was to get away from what was being discussed before hand so I will definitely not be brining it back up again. that is why consider all of us winners in this discussion, because we are not discussing what was being discussed earlier.

166. How are you defining physical competition then?

158 Your examples don't meet your definition, though. Billiards and darts are physical competitions against other persons which require strength or dexterity. As are lumberjack competitions, foosball, air hockey, rodeo, and jumping rope. Are all those sports?

It looks like Tiger is still at even par. Can Phil say within striking distance?

169 - ok, modification of the definition: direct physical competition.

171. Then you are eliminating golf as a sport.

Tiger just committed the mother of all Rule 1 violations.

Not looking like he's gonna win this week.

170 like i said if tiger shoots 71 or 72 today i think he's in a lot of trouble, but i've thought that many times before and he's proven me wrong.

and penarol1916, pitching isn't a sport right?

delete my question on 174... no point on it being discussed anymore.

plus andrew is gonna come and make fun of me soon.

171 Awesome. I always wanted arm wrestling to be considered a sport.

In all seriousness, though, it's impossible to come up with a written definition of a sport because it's always going to include things it shouldn't or exclude things it should include. The only way to identify what is or isn't a sport may be the Potter Stewart method.

176 - good point, to borrow a line from Justice Stewart: I know it when I see it.

what's the projected cut at right now? that needs to be tiger's #1 concern.

176. I believe that is far and away the best definition so far, and since my computer is being moved and I won't be able to read this afternoon's thoughts, feel free to return to discussion of the Masters and Tiger.

ugh... I just jumped over to mlb.com and see they're already playing up the yanks and the saux. Is there any way we can petition the commissioner to move one of these teams to the NL Central, so they only play each other once every 6 years?

feel free to return to discussion of the Masters and Tiger

Thanks, your highness.

57 71

That the thing about the story, the "what if", or maybe the road not taken side of the story.

Raglani might or might not make it to the show, who knows how things would play out, but what would Yogi say (WWYS)?

"When You Come to a Fork in the Road, Take It!"

179 Go sit on a pole. ;)

What, repeatedly getting kicked in the crotch isn't enough?

182 why do you think johnny bench hit more hr's than you?

it's not fair he got to hit on astroturf his whole career.

IMO bowling is not a sport but in a strange way I find my self thinking that dancing is a sport of some kind, its beautiful to watch & it also takes great stamina to do it for long periods of time

I think what we need is a clear definition of "sport." Given that, it will not be hard to decide whether or not golf is a sport.

187
On the contrary, we don't need a definition of "sport". Golf is what it is. Who cares whether some people think it counts as a sport or not?

165 So, over/under on when the mystery substance appears on Peavy's hands tonight?

Since this game is in Dodger Stadium balls that are thrown out will go to the Dodgers dugout where Torre can examine them himself. So no, Peavy won't be using any substance tonight. :-)

I feel bad but I kind of like that one competition where they see who can cut trees the fastest. They also do a race to see who can climb the trees the fastest. I'm not sure if it's the same competition, but the one where you have to spin your opponent of the log in the middle of the lake is highly entertaining as well.

I also like the competition where they see who's truck is the awesomest. They one where they have to like drive over rocks and go through really deep mud. Brilliant.

Let me go on record as saying the Dodgers need to win two out of three this weekend. Though I guess that would be true of any weekend. We can't afford to go 4-8, that's for sure.

190

What about the strongest man competitions? Don't they move boulders around and pull cars with their teeth?

Dodgers third baseman DeWitt gets taste of life in majors

>> Los Angeles Dodgers third baseman Blake DeWitt was handed a white envelope last week as he sat on the bus headed to San Diego.
It was filled with cash — the $623 for a seven-day trip paid to every Dodgers player for meals.

"I make more in meal money than I made each month last year," says DeWitt, <<

http://tinyurl.com/3w96ex

193
I always find it amusing that players who get paid so much in salary also get the food, housing, etc. paid for.

"We're giving you so much money already that you can't be expected to pay for basic life necessities with your own money."

What was the "sport" which launched Mr. T to stardom? I believe it involved running around a bar and jumping on or over things.

194

I think having to pay for three meals a day on the road could get real pricey for someone on the league minimum. The other guys with big contracts, not so much a problem.

188 Well, as a mathematician, I like seeing clear definitions. People don't debate the characteristics of golf, but whether or not it is a sport. And what is irritating is when someone gives a reason why something is a sport while still excluding something else with the same property and making sport a subjective term.

194 Corporate CEOs (e.g. Frank McCourt) charge the company for their food, lodging, etc. on business trips too.

Rich people, such as the player, simply can afford to spend their own money to go beyond the minimum provided.

197- It's not really about a definition. It's about connotation. Saying that Golf, or tiddlywinks, or whatever else isn't a sport is just a more combative way of saying, "I don't like it."

Dodgers Get Second Look At Padres' Peavy

>> Dodgers first baseman James Loney has hit safely in all nine games his team has played this season and is hitting .364. At the other end of the spectrum is newcomer Andruw Jones, who is hitting just .129.

Things will probably not get better for Jones tonight, as he is a paltry 1- for-18 lifetime against Peavy. <<

http://www.nbc10.com/mlb/15856110/detail.html

194- I can't believe you're opposed to per diem. The Greenback Party would still be around if, instead of being about boring monetary policy, their platform had been about demanding more per diem.

From the link in 193 :
DeWitt's transition to the major leagues was eased when the Dodgers invited him to a two-week winter-development program [in L.A.] in January.

"Just little things like how to get to the ballpark, be on time and what was involved in a given day," says DeWitt, 22. "I think without it, I would have been lost."

Already one dividend paid from that program. Front office must be happy their idea was useful. Good for them.

193 , 198 - expenses are all about taxes, union contracts, and history.

196 Give me the Major League minimum each year and I will somehow struggle to find a way to eat each day. I guarantee it.

202 - didn't the Dodgers always used to have a winter workout at Dodger Stadium? Why is this being treated as though it's a new thing?

202 - It was a slam-dunk of an idea - and the only reason not to do it would be the expense of it. What's nice to see is that they didn't pinch pennies.

205 - They did, but I don't know that it was quite the same animal as this. This year's effort seemed a lot more progressive.

199 - Yes and no. I don't particularly like figure skating or gymnastics, which I don't consider sports but I do enjoy billiards which I also don't consider a sport.

The one that gets me the most is hunting. I get particularly annoyed when hunters are referred to as sportsmen. Outdoorsmen, sure. Hobbyists, yeah. But sportsmen, no.

207 Anyone who can sit in a tree, freezing, for hours without a TV, the internet, or other people to keep them company should get a name all to themselves, but sportsman is not the correct name.

204 - But will you turn down the meal money if it's handed to you?

In the entire world, there are 800 major league baseball players in a given year. They get nice benefits. It's not news.

205 I think the orientation aspect and the number of younger prospects invited were new.

209 I'm not syaing I would turn it down in any way. I'm just disagreeing with his reference that it may be a problem for the lower paid players if they didn't receive the money.

204

I deserved that

211

I retract my statement

212 Not trying to be harsh on you in any way, just making a point.

193 I feel weird reading that. That's insane, seriously.

Wow, the new REM album is really good. Finally.

---

My own stubborn, YMMV definition of a sport is anything that is: competitive; takes special skill; and requires physical exertion. I generally haven't liked calling auto racing a sport but gave up on it a long time ago. I guess by my definition you could call billiards a sport but I think of it as a game.

It's about connotation. Saying that Golf, or tiddlywinks, or whatever else isn't a sport is just a more combative way of saying, "I don't like it."

eggzactly. That is why Hockey, soccer, car racing, billiards, pole-sitting and bowling are not sports.

Amazingly, NCAA basketball is only a sport for one month.

What about CGI Lexus Jumping? Is that a sport?

ask me again if I feel bad for Juan Pierre...

A former phenom's rise

>> Finally able to harness each of his three pitches -- a high-90s fastball, hard-breaking slider and effective changeup -- Jackson owns a 0.64 ERA and looks like that nasty 20-year-old from '03. <<

http://tinyurl.com/4yj3do

I just got my grey DT shirt.

How edgy would it be to get Juan Pierre to autograph it?

NPUT