So are people happy Martin's starting a day game after a night game? I am, assuming he's feeling good, why not? Don't they have an off day tomorrow anyway?

Not too often that the Dodgers have started all their outfielders 1-3 in the lineup.

Man, I hope Furcal comes back soon.

Glad to see Ethier back in the lineup. Hope he's not too rusty.

I am surprised. Atleast he's not starting at SS, right!? :)
vr, Xei

1. Two nights in a row.
vr, Xei

Our due date is fast approaching May 12th. It is weird to have such a life altering event on the way, but to still feel surreal about it all. My wife has been a trooper. She is still working!

1 Martin will be fine. Besides, he has Thursday and next Monday off. I like giving Jones the next 2 days off. And a three day rest for Furcal might help him be ready for the weekend series against Houston.

I don't have a problem with Martin starting so much because I'm assuming that he'll break down in 2 or 3 years and we should have May or Santana ready by then.

3 - if Kuo is pitching, starting at SS is a day off.

7 Well that's an optimistic look on things.

I just noticed that interleague play starts in 9 days. Seems a bit early this year.

8. Thumbs up!
vr, Xei

a rusty Ethier is miles better than Jones

And yes, I like giving Jones the day off (plus tomorrow) as well. It can't be good for his psyche right now, struggling at home, hearing it from the crowd, even when he has a couple of good at bats, when he then regresses he hears it and presses badly. Time to take a step back.

And at the worst, create a phantom injury - perhaps a pulled pinkie, a bruised ego or something.

Okay, back to work for 40 minutes.

1 - Martin has started at catcher in 29 games, 2 games at third, and has caught at least part of every game so far.

If only Furcal weren't out, this would be the lineup I voted for.

The real question is why isn't Marting batting #1 or 2

14 Yes. He could still get 162 games caught this year- scary.

5 - My little one turns 1 in a few weeks. I'm not sure what is weirder being on the precipice of that moment or watching your kid get up and walk away from you--as Jon notes, smiling the whole time. I envy you for those early weeks with the kid (we're likely only having the one) because they're unlike anything else and it was probably the best time I had in my life. Congrats btw.

These starts are gonna affect Martin come crunch time. I know he's great but he is also human.

Here's a small victory. Isn't it nice that Kemp has become Torre's number one outfielder? He's in every day. I know that was my biggest worry coming out of spring training.

Um, why isn't anyone else panicking about Furcal being scratched again?

19 Again, remember he's off completely tomorrow and no travel, either. And I'm sure he'll get an off day next week at some point. It's fine.

21 my comment was on the last thread...we are fighting over DeWitt v LaRoche, and Furcal has come up lame...

I think I'd be more worried if he was back in today because it would tell me he was trying to play through an injury again.

0 Brilliant. You brought tears to my eyes, Jon. Nothing in this world compares to coming home from work and having your kid meet you at the door. My boy is a year and a half now and is the joy of my life. Thank you.

And now we return to your regularly scheduled Dodger conversations.

From the Inside the Dodgers blog, Josh posted "Furcal still out with a stiff back, but hopefully tomorrow's off day will do some good. The same goes for Andruw, who will hopefully get to clear his head and start from scratch on Friday."

Still doesn't sound too serious, sounds more precautionary, but if he's out starting the next series, I'll start to panic more. We need our sparkplug!

21

It seems more cautionary to me, and he will get the extra day off. I guess I am glad he is not playing through the pain like last year. If he sits for the Houston series, than I will be worried.

ahhh, by 26 seconds

26 based on what I have seen with our medical and training staff the past few years...I am not reassured...

A "Day" in My Life (last night 'til this morning):

7-year-old boy: Hits double, drives in three runs. Much rejoicing.

3-year-old boy: Wakes up at 3 a.m., gets drink of water. Immediately pukes all over me.

1-year-old boy: Wakes up at 5 a.m. with fever. Spends morning swearing a lot (in baby talk).

And yet I still disagree with Wilker's brilliant (as usual) line that life's a losing proposition. There's just too much good stuff going on. We win.

I'm not worried about Furcal at all. Worry about him playing a noon start after being scratched last night with a sore back?

I thought I was paranoid.

I just noticed that Cincinnati hit four home runs in the 2nd Ouch

The same goes for Andruw, who will hopefully get to clear his head and start from scratch on Friday

Good grief.

Not worried about Furcal missing a couple of games, until I hear the phrase "back spasms" or "herniated disk".

30 All those kids?! What are you, a Mormon?

Seriously, if you want to see something crazy, come to Utah, I'll take you to church, and there are 50 families like Kevin's in the pews. Not recommended for Andrew Shimmin.

I'm assuming Kuo, Broxton, & Saito are out for today's game. That leaves Park, Wade, Beimel, & Proctor.

If Penny can pitch his usual 6 innings, we can use Wade/Beimel/Proctor to close it out.

Wade needs to have another productive outing if he wants to hang onto his spot. Right now, he looks likes the most likely to be sent down when a move is made.

36

I hope the pews are comfortable.

I was at a Methodist church Sunday that was being used as a concert hall. They had PADDING in the pews.

Man, those Methodists have it cushy. Literally.

39
I guess there's a method to their padness...

When will the Dodger all-star third baseman, Blake DeWitt, bat 2nd in the order? :)

We do have padding in our pews. Unless you get there late, in which case you sit in the folding metal chairs in the overflow that stretches back into the gym.

40 LOL

dusty at it again

does anyone have any idea on vloquez's pitch count. 7IP with 4 walks and 10 k's it has to be up there.

40 Groan.

On the Hawai'i television front, I just turned on FSNPT and I've got the 9th inning of last night's game. Had I known it was going to be on, I coulda seen DeWitt's HR (and Alou's steal of home -- a Mets fan I know asked on his blog how that could possibly happen, and I took great joy in explaining it using DT as my source).

I am relieved not to see Fox Kansas City on that channel as I did yesterday. I have nothing against KC, but...

44

Gameday says 118 through 7 innings.

Baby Thoughts
Mormon Thoughts
Church Thoughts

I'm definitely a fish out of water on DT today.

44
118 pitches through 7 for Volquez. Presumably he'll come out now.

36- I went to Disneyland a couple of weeks ago. There were kids everywhere. It was a trying day. Kids are bad at standing in line; they have no respect for buffer zones.

I know a guy who feels it is his right/calling/ministry to rub the bloated bellies of expectant mothers at his church. This is quite the spectacle.

And it's not even a cult or a sect or anything. (Well, maybe a sect, but they'd never admit it.)

Volquez is filthy.

49 Bring a squirt gun next time.

50

I have said, "what are you doing?" many times to people touching my wife's belly without asking.

I am still laughing at the post last night about the nephew in the bathroom at Dodger stadium. Was it Marty? "Nice Shoes"

Hilarious

20 The "No. 1" OF tag is nice, but let's see what happens when Kemp goes through a 2 for 12 stretch and it's decided that he only gets 2 starts in a week again. I've not yet seen a rational explanation for why Ethier sat 4 of the last 5 games. But I'm often regarded as a crank.

41 The same day Andruw Jones is hitting leadoff.

In that Reds-Cubs game, the Cubs, on the other hand, are not experiencing on of their best pitching days:

HR - J Votto 3 (7, 2nd inning off J Lieber 0 on, 0 Out, 5th inning off S Marshall 0 on, 0 Out, 6th inning off S Gallagher 1 on, 2 Out), A Dunn (6, 2nd inning off J Lieber 0 on, 0 Out), P Bako (4, 2nd inning off J Lieber 0 on, 1 Out), J Hairston Jr (1, 2nd inning off J Lieber 1 on, 2 Out), B Phillips (6, 5th inning off S Marshall 0 on, 0 Out).

Wherefor art thou, Sean Hill?

Meanwhile Barry Zito missed exactly one start, didn't pitch out of the bullpen once, and is starting for the Giants today in Pittsburgh.

Joe's recent Banny log is excellent today, especially with the reflection on Bissinger.

Not to be overly critical, but I think people are way overrating Dewitt. He is not going to keep up his performance anywhere near this level. And its silly to say he's better than Laroche based on a months worth of at bats, while dismissing their years of work in the minors.

Dewitt (5 years in minors): .279/.333/.444 .777 OPS 57 HR 329/146 K/BB 1859 AB

Laroche (6 years in minors): .294/.374/.522 .896 OPS 92 HR 282/212 K/BB 1698 AB

Laroche is just a much better player, period. You don't forget six years worth of data because of one month. Also keep in mind just how much luck plays a factor with so few at bats. Example:

Furcal 2008: .366/.448/.597
Pujols career: .332/.423/.619

Raffy has basically been as good as Albert Pujols with the bat so far. You think he'll keep that up? Or look at Cano.

2005) LD%: 20.6% BABIP: .318 BA: .297
2006) LD%: 19.9% BABIP: .359 BA: .342
2007) LD%: 16.9% BABIP: .329 BA: .306
2008) LD%: 17.0% BABIP: .155 BA: .157

Cano is not going to hit .157. He's obviously been tremendously unlucky this year. If you look at one month's worth of data it is easy to be misled.

Dewitt has the lowest line drive percentage of anyone in the majors with more than 50 at bats. Also no one (who qualified) in the last three years has been as low as Dewitt. He has a 8.5 LD%, where the next lowest is 12.9% by Gary Matthews Jr. last year! Of the bottom 11 guys, only one had a babip over .300 (and it was .303). Most were in the .270's or lower. Dewitt's BABIP is .348. If you think he is not due for a HUGE decline then you are very much mistaken.

Maybe this sounds like I am bashing Dewitt, but I actually like him. There is just no way he is going to be a good player yet. Every game he plays over Laroche once Laroche is healthy is a mistake. Laroche is just a much better player right now. On things like these you can't let emotions get in the way, you are hurting the team if you let Dewitt play over Laroche. Unfortunately, the Dodgers may just make this very mistake. Rant over. I need to start a blog for stuff like this. ;)

54 Pierre and Kemp were hot, Jones has a large paycheck.

56

Yep, and my fantasy opponent started Zito and Maine today. I am hoping for carnage.

can I ask for one of you fellows to post the score every now and again?

wow, 7 home runs. That's a lot of rally killing. vr, Xei

Why is a day game considered a "Business Man's Special" anyway? Wouldn't it be better classified as an Unemployed/Nightshift Special?

Who is Joey Votto, and how does he hit three home runs in a game?

Furcal should be ready for Friday says Vin.

61

1-2-3 top of 1st 0 runs 0 hits

Vin also almost jinxed us a home run for David Wright there. Phew.

63 - because it's an excuse to take a day off, or instead of having a meeting on the links, you have it in the box seats.

Or because that's just the way they say it.

64 Votto is one of the top OF prospects in the game, maybe the best first year outfielder. Highly regarded and already raking for the Reds.

I believe the "Businessman's Special" tag started back in the 1900s when teams in New York would start games around 4 pm to allow people who worked on Wall Street to make it to the games.

For various reasons, the name got stuck to day games with the Dodgers.

I cannot vouch for 100% accuracy of the above statement.

64 - Hot prospect turned real player. Dusty Baker wisely started some PVL (Hillenbrand?) over him to start the season.

SoSG has a nice post about handling '77 Mustangs.

I'm pretty sure Trainwreck has Votto on his team in Xeifrank's h2h league.

69
Replace "outfielder" with "first baseman" and you're on the money.

Votto's the first baseman, right? Bruce is the outfielder.

Whoa. Angel Pagan made a great grab and then flipped into the bleachers. Hit the railing and rolled over. Hope he's okay. He's still in the stands.

71 Hatteberg.

Bottom of 1st

Pierre: popped out to 2nd
Ethier: Fouled out to LF
Kemp: Ground out to SS

0-0 Top of 2nd

Vin assures everybody that Matt Kemp can play CF.

Off to lunch

55 Brent Knapp
The same day Andruw Jones is hitting leadoff.

Wrong answer.
Correct answer: When he becomes an all-star.

Had to actually work a little so this is a little late, but 30 perhaps Wilker's a little correct and the last 24 hours have shown a slight regression to the mean :)

Actually I agree, there are if one looks, too many good things to concern oneself overwhelmingly with the bad.

Tonight I get to go see my twin girls in their soccer game then head straight to my son's baseball game, then catch the Dodgers on DVR. Good times all.

"Shortstop Rafael Furcal reported improvement in his sore back ... Furcal missed the last 12 games of last season with lower back spasms, but this injury is said to be in a different area and not considered by club officials as serious. "

http://tinyurl.com/4t6x45

well i got to watch the first inning on the tube, looks like I'll be here with you and gameday the rest of the day, so hello all.

I guess thats why Beltran's numbers arent so hot. He hit that ball as hard as a human can, but right at Loney.

85 - a very good hitter once said that the key was to hit it where they ain't.

marlon anderson is still alive?

83 thnx for the info on furcal.

Kershaw pitched one inning of relief today:

Carolina Top 5th

Pitcher Change: Clayton Kershaw replaces Danny Muegge, batting 9th.
Aaron Thompson called out on strikes.
John Raynor flies out to center fielder James Tomlin.
Chris Coghlan grounds out, third baseman Russell Mitchell to first baseman Greg Jacobs.

Game is 5-5 in the ninth.

the Mets are making way too much contact for my liking today... even if they are fouling balls off.

that one wasn't foul.

90

Thats the story with Penny now. Very few swings and misses. Eventually big leaguers will make solid contact if you throw enough pitches to them (and Brad really on throws 2 different pitches).

Sheez. Come on Penny.

This is how he sometimes is in the first inning. Guess he delayed it for an inning. Might be good to settle down, Brad.

Bring Guo in!
vr, Xei

Marlon Anderson playing 1st base is just wrong.

Penny ain't doing too hot.

Brad geting killed by scrubs.

Marlon Anderson looks like a good player. Maybe Ned could trade someone worthless for him, like Andruw Jones.

64 The people who don't know Joey Votto, probably don't know Andy LaRoche. They are both blue chip prospects who are extremely likely to have long sucessfull careers. Unlike Blake DeWitt. But I do love what DeWitt is doing right now.

Been here, done this.
vr, Xei

Who else should be the Mets backup first baseman?

... Well done, Penny. Who needs a sweep, anyway?

I just recalled that Penny often struggles vs. Mets, no? Alas.

Sure would be nice to not have to depend on bullpen for once in this series.

With the pitcher on deck and 1st base open, why not walk Casanova?

Penny for our Thoughts.

This umpire doesn't appear to call pitches "strikes" when they're in the lower half of the strike zone.

groan

WE: 23%
vr, Xei

90 Penny has, so far, been completely unable to get the Met hitters to miss his pitches. He looks terrible right now.

alright keep it at 4 and I'll believe

who is this wright fellow?? he'll never amount to anything

108. Make that 16%
vr, Xei

This is like that Padres game where Penny got singled to death.

I'm sorry. I sat down during lunch to watch a half an inning, and that happened. I won't do it again.

Wright has been terrible this series.

ok we can come back from this, granted its john maine, but still we've been given enough reason to believe we can still win it ha

That was just unlucky. I guess the Mets' RISP ailments had to end sometime. Next game would've been preferable.

David Wright is 0-10 with 6Ks in this series.

ARRRRRRGGHHH. The game is blacked out for me on MLB.tv. Stupid Mets media market.

Actually, I just checked the score. Maybe that's a blessing in disguise.

So he K's David Wright but can't Casanova Frankenstein out?

It's tough to be too hard on Penny - he's technically our 1 I guess but he's really more of a 2/3. I think once Bills and Kershaw are anchoring the rotation, we'll perceive Penny a bit better.

so much for patience at the dish

I'm suddenly glad I didn't try to take the day off to go up to the stadium... well, not really, I just want to tell myself that.

Dodgers currently lead the Wild Card race by half-a-game minus four runs.

121 lets not forget this guy has been cy young caliber the past couple years, we have to hope for a little better than that, knowing that he is capable of being a number 1.

From Tony Jackson:

"... That was actually one of two ceremonial first pitches today. The other one was thrown out by Friday Night Lights star Aimee Teegarden, much to the delight of Dodgers PR staffer Mark Rogoff. Much to the chagrin of Rogoff, she requested Blake DeWitt as her catcher."

This is not going to end well.

wow, penny is bad today.

... I would say it's about time to come get your pitcher, Torre.

What concerns me most about Penny is his declining strikeout rate. He's just not putting batters away on 2-strike counts.

That last hit he gave up was just plain bad luck.

Gack. Penny is awful today. How fast can Kershaw come up? Just for a couple of innings.

Can someone give an update on the score? From what I can see it is the Mets leading 4 to 0.

let's see if penny can get the 80 year old scrub catcher out this time.

132

... It's now 5-0.

Nice screen name, by the way.

125 - I know he's piled up a lot of wins, but I just don't perceive him as a 1 pitcher.

I'm not worried about Penny overall; he just never does well against the Mets. Eric Stults does better against the Mets. He'll be fine next game. But today, he's not cutting it.

5-0 now

Penny is going to take one for the team today. Unless the Dodgers bat around at some point.

I'm so glad that I'm not watching this game. It sounds like a disaster and it is still early.

134 - Thanks.

That should've been out at 2nd. Russell took too long and still basically got him. Looked like a tie at 2nd base but they often call that an out.

129 He's gotta try and get penny to go 5 after kuroda's 10 out gem last night.

all right, got out of the inning with only 1 run. Pitch count is at 65 through 3. How many innings will he go tonight? Let's hope DeWitt gets the offense jump started, he was a part of every run scored yesterday.

Penny hits here?
vr, Xei

Loaiza's available to mop up, isn't he?

Huuu...Time for Penny to make up for the struggles a little.

Penny's a half way decent hitter for a pitcher, plus, it saves a pinch hitter for a potentially higher leverage spot later.

Hu for Tu! Er, two.

Penny has a 5.08 ERA in day games with enough innings that I think we can skip the small sample size mantra.

Juan started the rally last night..come on JP

Penny can't get the runner over either, its just not his day.

146 - or, you know, that

Bottom of the third seems a trifle early to pinch hit for Penny, especially given the game last night. But he's been off and Loiaza is available. I dunno, not an easy call but I think they made the right one. (Until I see Penny stink it up in the next inning.)

Pitch Count through 3, Penny - 65, Maine - 32.

"... the Dodgers leave who ..."

You'd think Vinny could remember the name of the guy on second. :-)

152. Dodgers only used two pitchers through 7 full innings last night. The bullpen is not taxed (minus Guo). vr, Xei

148 I used to think it had something to do with the temparature but its a cool afternoon.

... I think the answer to the trivia question is Pena and Hershiser.

154 gotta love names like that. I went to a cricket match at Lords and there was a Pakistani player named "Wasim"...and the the running joke all day was it Waswho? it Wasim!

157 - What is the trivia question?

Ahhhhh where'd Vin go?

Isn't Penny the guy who has terrible starts against the Mets? and by terrible I mean abysmal. Is that just his career at Shea or the Mets overall?

Either way, something like this was expected.

160 - a nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

161 - Charlie Steiner was saying Penny is 5-11 lifetime against the Metsies.

http://tinyurl.com/4ef5qg

155 - Maybe Kuo will pinch hit for Penny

If you live in the Inland Empire, go check out the birthday boy.

I guess Gary Bennett wanted to be fresh to be able to play cards tonight.

James Loney, Gary Bennett and Scott Proctor will participate in a charity celebrity poker event from 6:30-8:30 tonight at San Manuel Indian Casino in Highland.

Other celebrities will include World Series of Poker champion Annie Duke, Shannon Elizabeth, Donnie Wahlberg and Sugar Ray Leonard and the proceeds will benefit survivors in Darfur, Sudan.

165 - I enjoy watching Annie Duke play. Heck, watching World Series of Poker is fun on any day when nothing better is on TV.

163

Thx, scareduck. So, to answer my question the answer is: both.

Bear in mind, Penny only has 6 career starts vs NY at home (4-2)

Since Votto hit 3 home runs today will David Ross be playing 1st base tomorrow?

John Maine was 0-3 lifetime against the Dodgers, he was the pitcher who gave up the 3 bombs to Betemit, Kemp and Kuo.

165

Whatever happened to Shannon Elizabeth, anyway??

Is there any way to check the Dodgers record on weekday home games? Theres very few of them, but every one I've been to over the last couple of years has been a total blowout.

162 I was listening to it with mlb.tv (even with its problems, it's still the best way for me to watch the Dodgers since I live out of SoCal). Vin disappeared after a couple innings.

Just got in and uh-ohh
Looks like a "bad Penny" day.

I cannot believe Penny is still pitching. How'd he survive into the 5th inning?!

Wow I just got the highlight of that stop made by loney, that was blistered

171 They don't play that many, you might be thinking about those Saturday afternoon home games. Also they had lost their last few home openers.

2008 - 1-0 going into today's game.
2007 - 1-1
2006 - 0-3

Vin makes a Paul Simon song reference!

Has Penny been like this all day-can't seem to get it over?

Yikes.

what are Penny's stats for day games?

you have got to be kidding, the pitcher is raking today.

Ugh-ly.

That was one of several not super impressive hits the Mets got off Penny today, but fair is fair I suppose. The Dodgers have had a few themselves these past coupla weeks. Oh well.

Sweep Expectancy: 2%
vr, Xei

176 The two that stick out in my mind was another start by Penny in which San Diego annihilated him and Peavy hit a HR, the other day game thats so painful was when Hendrickson pitched against the Marlins and gave up 8 in about 3 innings. I always keep these horror shows in the back of my mind when I consider going to a weekday day game.

... Why am I not surprised that Torre allowed Penny to stay out there and lose the game for the team? Amazing stuff.

theres the nail in the coffin, my goodness, a friggin single to john maine when your ahead 0-2.

I was gonna say we could still chip back at 5 in the bottom 5th, but man thats disappointing.

178 - No he's gotten it over plenty of times. But they've either fouled those off or hit 'em fair. Except for the few K's. He's just been hittable overall. Ah well. Time to move on.

is penny done yet?

Now that we're down 7, my ability to believe has been thoroughly obliterated. How can they leave Penny in there? He has completely lost it out there.

185 Why am I not surprised you typed that?

185 Because we probabl weren't coming back anyway and we were just coming off Kuroda's effort last night.

Smart move-that hit bats men with one out.

They show Rick Honeycutt on the dugout phone. Vinny captions it with: "Honeycutt, calling dial-a-prayer"

185. They had their chance to pinch hit for Penny back in the 3rd, but Torre instead chose to get as many innings as possible out of Penny. Didn't pan out. Better luck friday.
vr, Xei

Well, I'd rather lose like this. Brad's stuff was not good today. his fastball needs to be at 94-96 to be really effective because it is fairly straight. He couldnt control his secondary pitches either, so he didnt stand much of a chance.

... 112 pitches in a blowout. Just -- unbelievable.

Vin just said that out of the 112 pitches that Penny threw, the Mets swung and missed just 7 times. Pretty sorry performance.

I don't see how the bullpen is tired, other than Mr K.
vr, Xei

Based on Jon's post today, I think infanticide is in order.

Are you guys forgetting that we have Blake Dewitt...?

Penny's outta there.

Look, Torre's had a quicker hook for other struggling starters during this good stretch, and the bullpen's come to the rescue. If he left him in an inning too long today, I don't quite get the doomsday proclamations about what should've been done today. What should've been done is Brad Penny should've pitched better. Kuroda pitching better yesterday and sparing the bullpen a lot of work would have helped a great deal, too.

190

... He should have been pulled in the second or third. If it's obvious he doesn't have it, and it WAS obvious, then get him out of there early and you might still have a chance to win.

When does this become a Chan Ho Park mop-up game?

Penny threw over 110 already this season. Hmmm....

201. 2 pitchers pitched 7 full innings yesterday. vr, Xei

Phew. We finally reached David Wright.

Proctor comes in and walks in a run on 4 pitches. I guess it's important to remember that notwithstanding today's result, the Dodgers still won the series.

191 Also Derek Lowe has not pitched past 5 innings in his last several starts, Chad is no guarantee to go long and Kuroda will need to bounce back.

If there is a problem with the Dodgers sor far, they lead the NL in innings pitched by their bullpen. This is why, the Dodgers will need to carry 12 pitchers until the starters can show they can consistenly pitch deeper into games.

This is going to Arizona-ize our pythagorean record. :)
vr, Xei

You cannot manage every game to win that day, otherwise you burn out your bullpen.

And with 10 earned runs allowed today, Penny's ERA finds itself at 4.79.

205 - Mostly Kuo in long relief, yah, but he's the only long reliever I have a great deal of confidence in.

Ugh, and Proctor's not faring too well either.

The Mets were bound to have a breakout game, the Dodgers were bound to have a bad one. This is ugly but you move on.

Time to rest Martin.

Oh well.

Why not let Young play a few innings, just to get him some field time?

Maybe Bob knows the answer to this. When was the last time the Dodgers overcame a 10-0 deficit?

I didnt get to see the beginning, why did Penny suck so badly?

Penny cant be happy with Procter with letting those inherited runners scored.

Cant remember the last time Penny gave up 10 runs in a game.

Dodgers' Pythagorus is taking a beating today.

I think to win any game this year without Rafael Furcal will be quite an effort.

210. Nobody said to do it "every" game. :)
The bullpen is not tired, and there is an off day tomorrow.
vr, Xei

Hey, when you lose, it really doesn't matter if its a laugher.

210 Stop being logical and thinking long term! That's not "sexy" enough for the 'net. ;-)

Well if nothing else the Dodgers have shown me that I do indeed have a job and have work to do and now I have no excuse to not do it. So off I go.

Annnnd, Brad Penny just saw his ERA go from 3.19 to 4.79.

210

... Park and Loaiza have had adequate rest. If you're destined to be blown out, then why burn Penny for over 110 pitches? And if Park/Loaiza happen to have good stuff, maybe the Mets can be held for a time and the team at least has the ability to make a game of it and perhaps win.

There's no excuse for Torre's move, or rather the lack of a move.

I agree with 213 and 214 -- rest Martin, bring in Pee Wee! Might as well get some use out of this stinker.

New career high for runs allowed in a game by Penny:

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/bqmS

Hopefully the 112 pitches dont affect Penny for his next start. Not much of a point to leave him out there when you got Loaiza/Park both in the pen to mop up.

Penny's first pitch of the game was 88mph and it didn't get much better from there. He also pushed a super-ugly 83mph something (changeup?) up there that brought back memories of the biceps grab. You can't win them all . . .

218 Some truth to that, but without Furcal yoiu have to get guys like Martin and Ethier near the top of the line-up.

Let Martin hit, then rest him if the Dodgers don't rally this inning.

we have a day off tomorrow also, so the bullpen would have another day to rest, so maybe the hook should have come sooner, but oh well. Let's start another streak Friday.

wow good ten pitch at bat from J-Lo

let's just get a couple of runs here . . .

So basically Penny has lost velocity?

He hasn't really been throwing hard all year.

DeWitt . . . do it again, kid!

210 The other side of the equation is that if you focus too much on tomorrow, a lot of today's go a wasting. It wouldn't otherwise be so much of a problem if some had the mind to pitch souls such as Broxton and Saito for more than 1 inning. Sorry, throw in Beimel and Wade as well. If you had Broxton and Saito each going the 8th and 9th [i.e., Broxton the 8th and 9th one day, Saito another day], Beimel and Wade the 6th and 7th [ditto], that would free up Park and Kuo to enter early when our SP clearly doesn't have it. Proctor would be the proverbial Johnny on the spot. The problem is that we've essentially turned 4 of our pitchers [Saito, Broxton, Beimel and Proctor] into one inning pitchers.

Oh, I read through the last thread.

Question, on Dewitt's bases loaded single, how was that scored, ground ball or a line drive?

I ask because I honestly can't fathom Dewitt's low LD% because I have seen Dewitt hit a lot of those type of gb/line drive balls.

Judging between what exactly is a gb/ld/fb is bordering on subjectivity.

not tonight, blake.

Because of the 2 off days, Penny doesn't pitch until next Tuesday, however, you may still need Loiaza or Park during the weekend.

chalk it up as 'one of those days'.

lovely

236 - I don't know how it was scored, but it was definitely a grounder.

I wish Gameday would just go ahead and break, fercryinoutloud.

well, all we need is another signature 10 run inning and we'll be right back in this thing..

Guess which guy forgot to drop Penny from the starting lineup on his fantasy team today?

THIS GUY.

241

Was it though? :)

236 And wouldn't any variation of scoring affect all batters.

Isn't this why we have Chan Ho?

Something is wrong with gameday link. I just got back from a meeting/lunch and opened gameday to check in on the game and it says Mets 12 Dodgers 0. This is a mistake, right?

I still think this might be a nice opportunity to give D. Young some needed playing time on the field.

(Last time I say so, so as not to incur a Rule 8 violation)

I wish Torre was like my high school baseball coach."Hey Penny how about running 6 laps around Elysian Park and Andruw you can pace him!"

248 Yep, it's just a dream. You'll wake up from it... in 3...2...1... No, wait, it's real. Sorry.

It's U-g-l-y, we ain't got no alibi.

I think we should make like the Metsblog the first two games of this series and start sniping at each other and wondering if the season is over.

No, strike that, reverse it.

Back to work.

Proctor is very quietly off to a terrible start this season. Going into this game, opponents were OPSing 1.181 with men on against him.

247

... I give up. Apparently the only "logical" thing to do is to run Penny out there for high pitch counts, while watching him get absolutely hammered for more runs than he's ever given up before. Anything otherwise is "not thinking long-term" and "internet sexy", or whatever 223 was going for up there.

246

It would but the subjectivity of scoring is going to be marginalized the larger the sample size gets. Does anyone have Dewitt's line drive rate from the minors last year?

Okay, the freaking out about Penny should probably stop. 112 pitches is not the end of the world.

Having him face the pitcher with two out in the fifth and 104 pitches under his belt is defensible. I might have taken him out, but I can see the other side of it. I don't know why he was left in after that to face Reyes, but that's only one batter that you can't explain.

244 You aren't the only one. There's goes the ERA and the WHIP for the week. Now it's rely on the save, the hold, the K, the K/9, and the K/BB. Hopefully, one Edinson Volquez keeps it going.

255

I agree. Penny just needs to stop sucking and pitch like the staff ace. He needs to regain his velocity back.

253 Obviously we disagree, but not every game is winnable.

Had the Dodgers showed any sign of scoring today, maybe Torre manages differently, he did last night but John Maine is a better pitcher than Nelson Figueroa.

If it's any consolation, or whatever, I do agree they should've pulled Penny sooner. My only point above was that I can understand why they didn't pull him quite as early as some would've liked, even given how off he looked. He's been known to have bad innings and then get back on the horse and it was really early. On the other hand, given Penny's track record vs Mets I'd almost argue that he shouldn't have even started in the first place, But of course that wasn't going to be an option. Might as well have brought Chan Ho in but again at the time I wasn't feeling too confident in him vs. the Mets either. Ah well, some day soon we'll have Public Enemy #1, The Minotaur, to bring in as a secret weapon.

Yeah, 252 I'm more worried about Proctor lately. He's had some good innings and some really bad ones so far this season. The Dodgers will have other relief options as the season wears on but he's kinda important.

No, really, back to work, I swear. Starting now.

252 yea he kinda flies under the radar, but he really hasn't been that good this year.

I tried to defend him earlier in the year, because although his numbers aren't great, he has been seemingly better when it counts, than he has in mop up like this.

254 Minor league splits seems to be not archiving correctly, so no. It was 14.6% in 2006.

Or, what Jon said.

What was Penny's highest velocity today, btw? Anyone know?

262 I saw 94. once.

or the velocity of an unladen swallow for that matter?

Probably about the same today.

Worst Dodgers shutout since a 13-0 loss to the Angels on June 25, 2004.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN200406250.shtml

14.1 percent actually.

261 If it the same site I'm thinking of, the 2007 stats are not available right now.

262 - 88 MPH from what I've seen so far.

236. I would think the "border line" LD thing evens out given a large enough sample size as all players are judged the same. Also GB% is part of the equation, so it's not like you get no credit towards your f(L,G,F) if you hit a hard ground ball that was almost a line drive.
vr, Xei

I propose we debate a new topic:

If Peter the Great were playing in the NBA, would he be starting at the 3 or the 4?

What about Charles de Gaulle?

255 For me it isn't the pitch count. He just didn't have it. There needs to be a Plan B other than leave him out there to get shelled then burn the bullpen when the game is well out of hand. We should have tried to stop the bleeding after he gave up 3 and then got himself in further trouble [especially with the off day tomorrow].

244 Sorry, hadn't checked yet, but Edinson did keep it going. I expect that we'll see him in the All-Star game.

270 Napolean would have a been a 1. George Washington a 5.

262 actually in that first inning he was hitting between 92-94 on all his fast balls

MLB Gamecast drives me insane with the way every ball in play looks like a blooping fly ball. Each time I want an out, it looks like an easy fly to the outfield, only to go down as a line drive single. Ahhhhhh

270. Open it up on the Griddle. :)
vr, Xei

271 - I won't argue that.

You guys saw that Young is in at 2B and Bennett in at C?

272
Washington could have played the 5 in his own era, but he would be way undersized now. I suppose he could be a Dave Cowens or Alvan Adams type center.

277 I was considering their era. Henry VII maybe a 4.

276 - Torre looking at the options again. That's good, but don't see Young being able to spell Kent in the same way as Hu has, i.e., late inning defense. Anyway, nice to see him in there.

Nothing like watching Hamilton & Burr scrap it out in the paint.

278 - 3.5

280
See if people could have settled their differences by just playing one-on-one on the schoolyard, America would have had Alexander Hamilton for a longer period of time.

Has any pitcher that Ned has traded for lasted one complete season?
Seo - No
Hamulack - No
Baez - No
Lance Carter - No
Mark Hendrickson - Yup but he be gone now
Dessens - Nope
Maddux - Nope
Proctor - Maybe, Maybe not

Jon, what position will you be grooming your son to play? IF is easier, since as soon as he can sit up, you can roll him grounders and throw some pop flys with the Nerf ball [helps him get an early start with the whole hand-eye coordination thing]. He can always switch to the OF later if that's what he prefers. I'm leaving out catching 'cause it's murder on the knees and ditto pitching re the arm [shoulder and elbow].

282 I know Washington was a big man, but would really be a nation if we had challenged the red coats to a game of hoops?

282
I don't see how giving small men even more of complex is something that would benefit mankind. As it is, we only have gravity on our side when it comes to the benefits that small men have over tall men.

283
That's quite the Rule-13 violation-inspiring list.

Chan Ho hasn't been so bad, but they've obviously let off the gas a bit..

line drive! line drive!

270 "What about Charles de Gaulle?"

Not sure but he could probably put up a great deal of resistance on defense.

This is the least painful loss of the year. Just think how bad the Mets felt after squandering all those runners in their one run loss last night. Martin and Furcal get their rest, we take 2 of 3, and start out fresh again on Friday night.

291
Yup, plus we didn't waste our prime 07:00-10:00 time. Unless you want to watch the replay tonight.

292
Doing laundry will be such a pleasure. Perhaps I will live blog that experience on the Griddle.

271 He just didn't have it. There needs to be a Plan B other than leave him out there to get shelled

Didn't you listen to Penny's grandmother? She said you never take Brad out after a bad inning. It just makes him mad.

292 or watch the lakers without flipping back and forth constantly.

282 - there are a number of us who consider his absence a Good Thing.

296
I guess we know whose ancestors were ringleaders in the Whiskey Rebellion now.

282 Hamilton strikes me as a person who would like golf or tennis, not basketball. Maybe polo.

And in any contest, Ben Franklin would've been ogling the cheerleaders.

oh joyous day!

292 Let's all enjoy the next two days off while the team does. by the way, ToyCannon, I always loved Jimmy Wynn even though he replaced my first favorite player Willie Davis. That 1974 team was the one that made me a lifetime Dodger fan when I was 9 years old. Buckner, Crawford, Ferguson, and that familiar infield. Sutton, Rau, Mike Marshall. Good memories.

The Mets haven't had a CG 9-inning shutout since 9/6/2006. Oliver Perez shut out the Braves 8-0. The Mets had two rain-shortened shutouts last year by Maine and Glavine.

Man! Saw that I just missed an Andruw Jones double.

Guess my prediction for that yesterday was a day late.

284 - Well, I have an older son who's almost 4, and he doesn't have a position yet other than maybe Hot Wheels racer, so the jury is definitely still out. In fact, there might be a mistrial.

come back time, If Druw is gonna double to right field, anything is possible right now!

Miley's double does not look like a line drive in Gameday...

Hey, Andruw Jones suddenly has a two-game hitting streak. :-)

Boy, they really want this CG for Maine, don't they?

They are hoping there will be no sinking of Maine in this inning.

Man, that's awful. I'm clearly loopy from lack of air today.

how well did Jones hit it?

309 oops just got the vid on gameday

301 - Fond memories as well of Wynn. Saw him do the hat trick against the Padres.

Actually, I don't quite get why the Mets have left in all their starters save the injury replacment earlier. Given the score, you'd think they'd be resting a player or two, too...?

For years in which there is pitch data, the most pitches in a game for a Mets starter in a shutout is 166 by David Cone back in 1992.

My best friend called last night to brag that he was ditching work and going to the game. He was bragging because he knew I couldn't.

I'd like to say something, ah, creative to him. Something like...

I'm open to suggestions.

And there will be no complete game today, either.

haha that was the worst possible way I imagined him getting a double lol, but maybe it'll helps the confidence..and hey hey no shut out!

What is the biggest deficit a team has come back from in the 9th?

312
The Mets already were resting starters.

314 - No comment really necessary, as the game was probably punishment enough. But you could give him a Nelson Munitz "Hah. Hah." and point at him and laugh if that will help.

Yea, no more complete game for Maine. I got look for some bright side in my fantasy matchup

Old friend alert. Actually, we could see several old friends out of the bullpen in the next week or so.

304 So, the older son is grooming himself for Nascar. Have him watch that one GEICO commercial [so he'll know to take them into the wall]:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWgpGVGeL_g

C'mon double steal, that will shake them up.

301 1974 Cy Young Award Voting
1st Mike Marshall - Dodgers
2nd Andy Messersmith - Dodgers
4th Don Sutton - Dodgers

With Kemp's RBI single, this is now the Dodgers' worst blowout (11 runs or more) since their July 17, 2007 15-3 drubbing by the Phillies.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN200707170.shtml

Mark Hendrickson was on the mound for the Dodgers that day and gave up seven runs in three innings, all earned.

I believe the most runs made up in the ninth inning is 7.

We do not discuss drubbings by the Phillies, and we do not discuss games in which the Phillies were the drubbees until very late in the game...

well..go phillies

My lasting memory of Duaner Sanchez as a Dodger will always be when he three his glove at the ball in Ariz