I am genuinely saddened.

I hope the Dodgers at least have a pregame ceremony to honor him.

At least that hastens the day I'll be heading to Cooperstown for the 1st time. I should be ready to retire by the time he gets the call and I think I'll spend a month hitting baseball stadiums on my trek.

Farewell Mike! No question he is headed for the Hall, yes?

3 Count me in.

Ya knew it was coming .... but its still a bit sad.

I'm glad he's got things to turn to and concentrate on now.

4 - No question.

I started following the Dodgers in 1984 or so, and I just missed Pedro Guerrero's back-to-back 30 HR / 100 RBI years in 1982-83. At some point in the early 1990s (it was probably the disaster year of 1992) I kept wondering, "it sure would be nice if my team could have a 30/100 guy."

Blammo! Along comes Piazza (and eventually, Karros too). All this from a catcher? Pinch me, I must be dreaming!

The final day of the 1993 season, Piazza cemented his legacy for me by vanquishing the hated Giants (even though the not yet as hated Braves benefited) with his two bombs.

It seemed Piazza had more power to the opposite field than most players did pulling the ball.

Obscure but cool stat: Due to the players' strike and an injury, Piazza only had 46 PA in 11 games after June 4, 1995. But on that late a date he was hitting an amazing .523 (23 for 44).

Here's hoping the Dodgers retire his number post haste.

In 1993, two rookies faced off with the Division Title on the line. I never would have thought Salomon Torres would last longer in the majors than Mike Piazza.

I was in attendance at what was likely the most famous moment of his career -- I wish he'd taken that bat splinter and sent it right back at Clemens.

I would only go to a pregame ceremony for Piazza if Chase Carey and Peter Chernin were also invited and I was also allowed to throw garbage at them.

4 7 But which team's hat does he wear?

Going back to the last thread, I agree with Eric that the Dodgers should call up LaRoche if Jones is DLed for one big reason, to show appreciation to Andy for the hard work to get back at least a month before anyone thought he could. Torre has indicated that he told him that a few weeks ago and by bringing him up, the Dodgers could confirm this appreciation.

4 No question unless Kirk Radomski or somebody starts calling up reporters.

I'm gonna go ahead and repost that long LATed post.
-----

So we haven't discussed the use of Jones' roster spot very much. Is there any legitimate candidate other than LaRoche? (Granting the possibility that the Dodgers may well just decide to sign Chad Fonville or somebody just so they won't have to call LaRoche up.)

There is no argument to made for needing LaRoche to get regular playing time at AAA. He's not like Hu -- he's not a developing player. He's a 24-year-old major league hitter who should have gotten a regular job long ago, and who has merely been toying with AAA pitchers.

Likewise, there is no argument to be made for needing to replace Jones with an outfielder. The Dodgers don't need five outfielders, as evidenced by the fact that they've used their fifth outfielder for all of three innings in 2008. And if they did need a fifth outfielder, that man could be LaRoche, who's played the outfield in the major leagues. (Note that I'm not necessarily advocating he play there, just noting it as a possibility.)

There is no other obvious candidate at Las Vegas or Jacksonville to be called up, unless you think we need 13 pitchers or you like the Quadruple-A goodness of a Terry Tiffee or John Lindsey.

So, it's pretty clear-cut, right? LaRoche could serve as a pinch hitter, start once a week in place of DeWitt (and more if DeWitt starts slumping), and play left field if necessary. There's no reason we'd want him in AAA, and there's nobody else in AAA we'd want. It seems like a self-evident choice to call up Andy. You can never underestimate the Dodgers' ability to do the wrong thing, but short of that, I think LaRoche will be here on Monday.

11 - Mets.

11 : Without looking, he definitely had his best seasons on the Dodgers, right? But I know he was beloved in New York, too, especially after he homered to win the first post 9/11 game in the city.

This reminds me, we are coming up on the 20th anniversary of one of the great months in Dodger player acquisition history. In June of 1988, the following players were drafted or signed by the Dodgers:

Eric Karros
Mike Piazza
Raul Mondesi
Pedro Martinez

The also signed former AL All-Star Damaso Garcia :) on June 29, but he was released before ever playing with the big club.

15
I agree. Piazza played in the World Series with the Met and got the sharp end of a broken bat thrown at him while he was a Met. And he got beaned while he was a Met. And the Mets actually showed appreciation for him.

Unlike the Dodgers ownership.

Have I mentioned that I didn't like Carey and Chernin?

I would say I can't believe that trade was already ten years ago, but I'd be lying. Seems like a lifetime ago.

I think there's no question he'll wear a Mets cap. Which makes me sad, but while he was a significantly better player with the Dodgers, he played significantly longer with the Mets. That's what most baseball fans will remember him as. Doesn't hurt that he played his only World Series with the Mets too. And that his departure from NYC was less acrimonious than his departure from LA.

... Last Wednesday marked ten years since a Day Of Infamy in Dodger history -- May 14, 1998. And now, Piazza's career has sadly come to a close.

It's also very sad to me that Michael spent more time as a New York Met than he did here.

I own exactly one Dodger jersey. It has the number 31 on it. In my mind, he will always be a Dodger; my favorite Dodger.

20 Maybe uncle Tommy could convince him otherwise.

No matter what you think of Ned, you at least have to believe that he wouldn't think trading the best player in baseball is the solution to our problems.

With LA
3017 PA, .331/.394/.572, 159 OPS+
5 seasons of 140+ OPS+
2 playoff losses, both sweeps

With NY
3941 PA, .296/.373/.542, 136 OPS+
3 seasons of 140+ OPS+
2 playoff appearances, 2 NLCS, 1 World Series

He's probably going in as a Met, but it's a close call.

22
It's not Uncle Tommy's or even Piazza's decision.

Personally, I think Piazza should not have a cap on his plaque. That was some good hair.

The one thing that I think could put him in a Dodger hat is, frankly, the Lasorda factor. Piazza's rise from obscurity is such a huge part of his story. To me, his origin story is bigger than his being in a World Series (and not winning one). I'm not saying others will think that way, but perhaps the key decision-makers might.

If Piazza goes in with a Dodger hat, I assume the Dodgers then retire his number?

Illogical as I know it is, I still hoped to see him retire as a Dodger.

14 - Eric, that is a rock-solid set of arguments for LaRoche.

But I'll bet they call up Repko.

Obviously, I hope I am wrong.

Adroin up, Bennett to the DL, per ITD.

To show how messed up the Dodgers were in the Fox era, they get into a contract dispute that is more about ego than money with their best player and trade him and get a guy who his just as well. And a couple years later, they get into a contract dispute with him that's more about ego than money too and trade him.

Except they didn't get an equivalent replacement.

25 It's definitely Piazza's decision. The Hall will only step in and overrule if the player picks a hat that's clearly absurd. (i.e. Boggs with the Devil Rays.)

If there are multiple legitimate choices (i.e. Fisk, Winfield, Ryan), the Hall will let the player make the decision.

I've never thought the Piazza trade was that bad because Piazza was:

A.) A catcher, and a likely decline in his offensive stats was something likely to happen as he aged.

B.) He had refused a contract extension, and if he had not been traded the Dodgers may have got very little in return for him.

C.) Gary Sheffield was a great hitter in his own right. Bonilla/Eisenreich sucked, but I thought getting Sheffield was fine.

What did the Marlins get out of their Piazza deal?

If anyone got the shaft, it was probably Florida.

29 Speaking of former power-hitting catchers with ties to Philadelphia who have announced their retirements, is it too late to lure Mike Lieberthal back?

29 Any word on who gets waived to make room on the 40 man?

34 Schmidt to the 60 day DL, per Diamond.

There's a Bennett post below this one if anyone cares. Chat can stay here.

Love the new post down low, let Piazza have top billing.

21
I own two Dodger jerseys: #31 and #32.

26
Does Piazza have to go into the Hall wearing a Dodger hat for the team to retire his jersey number? Is that actually part of the criteria? Seems to me they should hang up his jersey regardless of what hat is on his plaque.

The Marlins got Preston Wilson and later flipped him for Juan Pierre (and Mike Hampton) for Piazza.

38 That's a good question. I doubt if anyone knows whether that's part of the criteria because the situation has never come up before. It'll be interesting to see what they do.

Piazza will become the lowest draft pick inducted into the Hall of Fame. And the distinction will be permanent, since the draft only goes 50 rounds now.

On a semi-related note, the dodgers preference/inability to sign any of their young players long term has severally dampened buying a jersey. I've thought about trying to seek out a retro 53, but I also really like the idea of 55 the day a long-term contract is signed.

32 - they traded the best hitting catcher of all time at the age of 29. 33, 34 years old, I can understand the concern. But Piazza was, looking at his numbers, in the middle of his prime years. After D4P, it was the worst trade in the history of the franchise.

It's going to be a bittersweet day when Piazza goes into the Hall of Fame with a Mets cap. It never should have been that way.

And shame on the Dodgers for letting any player, including one as good as Brad Penny, wear 31 on their back since he's been gone.

The Marlins still have Sergio Mitre, Ricky Nolasco, and Renyel Pinto to show for Piazza.

The Dodgers, of course, have Ethier to show for him.

34 They could put Schmidt on the 60-Day DL. His rehab can go into June and even if they wanted him to pitch in the 5th spot, the first time it comes up is the 27th and then June 1st so its not that big a deal.

35 45 Sorry, I should read these comments more closely. But at least that guarantees that they will give Jason probably the max amount of time he can take which is another 3 weeks.

41
I won't buy jerseys of current players. Though DeWitt's hot start has me tempted to continue my drive through the 30's and add #33 to the collection.

Or I could always just buy it as a tribute to Jeff Hamilton.

Is it possible that the today's two posts are related?

Maybe Ned lobbed a call to Piazza's agent last night and that nudged Piazza into making his announcement today?

Wishful thinking?

47 It's been a much easier selection for my NFL representation (Colts fan since birth) to select current players, but I'm thinking of adopting a similar philosophy in baseball.

The two problems that always arise are a) It's been hard to find a good retro jersey and b) I haven't really lived to see a Jersey-worthy Dodger play. Piazza was close, but I was 12 when he was traded and only have faint memories of hearing his name called over the PA

10

... I think I'd be arrested for what I would do to them. I couldn't care less if I never heard their names again.

The Dodgers, of course, have Ethier to show for him.

I had to think about that one ...
Piazza for Sheffield/Bonilla/Eisenreich/C Johnson
Sheffield for O. Perez/Jordan/A. Brown
A. Brown & F. Gutierrez for Bradley
Bradley & A. Perez for Ethier

And of course, Andrew Brown got traded for Milton Bradley one more time.

I don't really think there's a baseball-related argument to be made that the Piazza trade is the worst or second-worst in franchise history. I get the feeling that those saying this mean it was the worst in emotional terms rather than in baseball terms.

We got a Hall of Fame hitter back in return, too. A better hitter than Piazza, actually. That needs to be considered. In terms of what we gave up and what we got back, the John Wetteland and John Franco trades, among others, were worse.

I have a lot of great Piazza memories. One that came to me is this game http://tinyurl.com/6jupv9, a midweek day game that I went to on a whim with a couple of buddies. Ismael Valdez out-dueled Pedro for a 1-0 win, and the only run came on a Piazza homer, the hardest hit ball I ever saw in person. It was a line drive that hit the back wall of the Dodger bullpen on the fly. I swear it was never more than 20 feet off the ground.

53 My memory often deceives me on these types of recollections but the two players who come to mind for hitting the hardest line drives are Pedro Guerrero and Mike Piazza.

Anyone disagree.

This is a very sore subject for me. Piazza should have never been traded we all agree. He also went to the WS with the Mets. However, let us not forget what he did as a Dodger: Rookie of the year, 40 homeruns, part of the four players to hit 30 or more in one season, catching Nomo's no-hitter. Not to mention he got his only chance to play in the bigs with the Dodgers because of his Godfather Tommy. If anyone has any pull out there please let's call the Dodgers' front office and tell them to acknowledge this much beloved Allstar and future HofFamer. Charles Steinberg is in to the whole sentimentality of the Dodgers and hopefully he'll put Piazza's picture on Dodger Stadium and retire his number (not to mention Garvey's, Hodges, Wills, and Fernando's). Also, Piazza should have been part of the Opening Day ceremonies. Why wasn't he there. I'd love to see all the Dodger Thoughts bloggers call Dodger Stadium on this one. I don't often get a chance to submit my views, but this one is too important to pass up. Thanks for indulging me.

I still find it puzzling that Piazza didn't wind up with an AL team for the second half of his career. Imagine the total value he could have had DHing half the time. That's when I realized that MLB is not a rational marketplace.

Sayeth Piazza:

"But I have to say that my time with the Mets wouldn't have been the same without the greatest fans in the world. One of the hardest moments of my career, was walking off the field at Shea Stadium and saying goodbye. My relationship with you made my time in New York the happiest of my career and for that, I will always be grateful."

... I think we can rule out a Dodger cap on Michael's Hall of Fame plaque. As sad and infuriating that is to me, I can't really blame him.

54
Not me
http://www.truebluela.com/2008/5/20/523975/piazza-no-more

56
I think Piazza loved catching and didn't want to just hang around the clubhouse between at bats. Some guys are baseball players, some aren't.

I've already posted this on BBTF, but it works here, too:
What I'll forever remember about Piazza is the follow-through on his swing.
There he is, in the batter's box, on his tip-toes in a closed stance. Both hands remain on the bat, which now is over his left shoulder, the barrel pointed at the ground.
Meanwhile, the ball is rocketing toward the seats in right-center. (I've never seen anyone with better opposite-field power.)

JT you're probably right, but imagine if the Dodgers had a Mike Piazza night something like that and Tommy had a talk with him. What does he really owe the Mets organization? The Dodgers however, gave him his start and so much more.

I can't imagine that the Hall isn't the criteria for the Dodgers if they didn't retire the numbers of Fernando, Garvey, etc.

The only exception has been Jim Gilliam, who died unexpectedly on the eve of a World Series.

I would retire Fernando's number before Piazza's if the Hall isn't a criterion.

I will always remember Piazza as the first player in baseball who started hitting tons of home runs to the opposite field. Even though I have no idea whether that's actually true or not.

54 - Not me.

57 - His comments about his time in New York illicit many disappointing and envious feeling within me.

"The Dodgers today placed Gary Bennett on the 15-Day Disabled List (retroactive to Monday) with left foot plantar fascitis."

Isn't that what Tim Salmon had? That's a rather serious malady if I'm not mistaken.

58 Nice.

62 I don't think most are questioning that the Hall is a criterion; it's whether being inducted into the Hall as a Dodger is a criterion.

Piazza hit the ball harder to all fields than anyone I remember seeing. His line drives seemed to reach the outfielders faster than anyone else's.

I also remember gong to a game against the Cubs with a very young Kerry Wood pitching. With the bases loaded, Wood brushed Piazza back (likely on accident) and got a big reaction from Piazza and the crowd. Later in the at bat, Piazza hit a grand slam on a weakly hit fly ball down the right field line. I'm going to search baseball reference and see if I can find it.

54

Winfield and Sheffield would also be in my group for hardest line drive hitters.

67 I've had it and while I could see it being a problem for a catcher, it's not horrible pain.

The only problem is the only cure is resting it.

"Plantar fasciitis"

The malady is a proofreader's nightmare.

I've been a Dodger fan since '73'74. Mike Piazza is the first "immortal" player I saw wearing the blue. He was the best Dodger I ever saw and, like Shaq, never truly appreciated by the media in this town. There was always something about Piazza to harp on--the defense, the contract, what have you. I got sick of it but I never dreamed he would get traded.

http://tinyurl.com/59njez

That was easy.

Piazza will unfortunately chose the Mets cap for the HOF. Just read the article in the NY Daily News where he singles out the Mets fans as the ones he loves the most...

Last but certainly not least, I can't say goodbye without thanking the fans. I can't recall a time in my career where I didn't feel embraced by all of you. Los Angeles, San Diego, Oakland and Miami - whether it was at home or on the road, you were all so supportive over the years. But I have to say that my time with the Mets wouldn't have been the same without the greatest fans in the world. One of the hardest moments of my career, was walking off the field at Shea Stadium and saying goodbye. My relationship with you made my time in New York the happiest of my career and for that, I will always be grateful.

One more thing on Piazza. I don't see how he could hold anything against the Dodgers today since the McCourt era has nothing to do with the Fox era. It was Fox alone who did what was done to Piazza. Today's Dodgers org. would never had made such a blunder.

I had a busy day and didn't find out we won last night until just now. It is very pleasant to fall asleep on the east coast pretty sure of a loss and find we won twice in a short stretch. And DeWitt is really becoming a problem, albeit a nice one.

Bennett marks the third time this year that the Dodgers have come up with a mysterious, previously-unheard-of injury for a player whom they coincidentally needed off the roster for performance reasons.

I kind of like it, actually. They did the same thing with Marlon Anderson last year, but I don't think they've ever done it as much as they have this year.

The media reaction to the Piazza trade, if anyone is interested:

http://dodgermath.com/?p=260

55

... I think there are many, many Dodger fans who feel as you do. Once Piazza reaches the Hall, I'm sure that the Dodgers will retire his jersey. That ceremony will be a chance for all of us to show him the appreciation for what he did here, and that we never wished for him to leave.

And I agree with 52 in that the emotional attachment to Michael being a Dodger was the reason why the trade is looked back on as one of the worst days in this team's history. The talent-for-talent exchange wasn't bad at all, in fact, the Dodgers probably "won" the trade on that basis.

I think Kobe had Plantar Fascitis once. It's more of a basketball injury.

80 - Plaschke, good as gold. Yeesh.

76 Eric, this has come up before but doesn't the HOF choose the cap not the player?

There have been many HOFs who played with the Dodgers who are not recognized by having their number retired but Piazza would probably the highest profile player ever to fit in that category if the Dodgers don't retire his number. Piazza was NL Rookie of the Year, multi-All-Star, set club and league hitting records and of course has that connection with Lasorda.

Certainly nothing has to be done right now, but in August 2014, Mike should have a ceremony at Dodger Stadium retiring number 31.

84 see 25 and 31 .

I've had a mild case of plantar fasciitis. I would get up in the morning and my foot would hurt like a (Rule 1 violation). It would feel better after I put shoes on. But it went away on its own.

Mark McGwire had plantar fasciitis. UCLA basketball player Michael Roll had to miss almost all of the season with the same malady.

80--That Plaschke column is classic. He actually states "to heck with team chemistry, as long as Gary Sheffield can produce on the field thats all that matters".

How did he morph from that attitude into his 2004 writings about the Loduca trade?

More from the press notes. The Dodgers still have the third-best record in baseball since April 25.

Tampa Bay 15-8 .652

Texas 15-8 .652

Dodgers 14-8 .636

If it's bad karma to root for an injury to occur, is it also bad karma to hope that Bennett, Loaiza and Nomar stay on the DL the rest of the season, now that they're already there?

My memory of Piazza will be the laser beam line drives and tape measure homeruns to all fields. I specifically remember some of the incredible blasts he hit in Miami, Colorado, and of course the ball he hit out of Dodger Stadium. I also remember how quick he used to be able to turn on and hammer the high fastballs. The details about how the trade went down with the Fox guys who knew little about baseball still bothers me.

87 Plaschke "apologized" for the Piazza trade, saying that Sheffield was a cancer, etc. And since then, chemistry has been king in the world according to Bill.

Plaschke did like the acquisition of Milton Bradley. Until he didn't.

I vaguely remember Piazza swing as hard as he could and connecting at Coors. I think the ball hit the upper deck and was still going up.

Is there anywhere one can find Piazza's career spray chart? I want confirmation for my belief that he hit more opposite-field home runs in his career than pulled ones. (I'm probably wrong, but...)

According to the Home Run Log on B-R.

136 homers to left
81 homers to right
78 homers to center
75 homers to left-center
89 homers to right-center

Before his trade to Florida I think he had hit the longest home run there which was a complete bomb to center field.

91
And then he flip flopped again and said he was wrong to advocate trading Sheffield.

89 - Yeah, but how much rooting do you think it would take anyway? Garciaparra's recovery is going nowhere. Bennett seems like he'll be gone for a long while.

60
If Tomko was to create a painting of Piazza that is the pose I'd pay for.

Piazza's favorite pitchers to hit homers against were Pedro Martinez, Jason Schmidt, and Tom Glavine. 6 each.

105 homers at Shea. 92 at Dodger Stadium. 19 at Stade Olympique. 17 at Coors.

His favorite opponent was the Phillies: 44 dingers.

I was at the game when he hit it out of the stadium. Unfortunately, I didn't see it. Oh, I was watching, it's just that it was hazy that day, and I couldn't see the ball against the hazy sky once it left Mike's bat.

My wife disowned the Dodgers the day he was traded, and to this day will not call herself a Dodger fan.

94 - This may help:
www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=piazzmi01
It's Mike's career splits; check "hit location."

too slow - bob wins.

100
Sadly, in that same game, Otis Nixon lost a fly ball in the hazy sky and that cost the Dodgers the game.

I didn't know those splits were on BB-Ref. So Piazza pulled 211 homers and hit 170 to the opposite field. That's close enough.

79 I must say that I am also a big fan of these mysterious ailments that put underperforming players on the DL. I thought this kind of thing only happened in the NBA, but the Dodgers are doing a great job of using the DL as way to manipulate their roster this year. I am really looking forward to seeing LaRoche real soon.

Piazza's game where he hit the ball out of Dodger Stadium.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN199709210.shtml

Eric Anthony was on the Dodgers? Really?

100 How many times have a ball been hit out of Dodger stadium? hasn't it only happened twice?

has a ball.. haha grammar

107
Not once,
Not twice,
Not even thrice

Four times.

Twice by Willie Stargell, once by Piazza, and the last time by Mark McGwire.

107 4
Pizza, McGwire, Stargell x2

And let's not forget that when Daryle Ward was with Houston, he fouled a pitch out of Dodger Stadium over the roof along the first base line.

Which isn't easy to do.

I will always lose out to the mighty Bob(s). Oh well.

I was at the game when McGwire hit it out, though again, only old enough to remember them putting it on the big screen.

97 I have a feeling that we will never see Bennett in a Dodger uniform again. Not that many tears will be shed!

So is Piazza the only player to do it on the up-and-up then, since McGwire was a steroid guy and Stargell a famed greenies distributor?

109 Did only Vin call him by the name his mother (Stargell's) preferred, Wilver?

111 I thought I was the only one who remembered that.

I think this was the game Ward fouled the ball out of Dodger Stadium.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN200105270.shtml

It was a Sunday night game. And I'm pretty sure Dreifort was pitching. And he was likely throwing very hard.

106 - That game was near the end of LA's 11-losses-in-15-games stretch run. UGH.

114
And Piazza was the only guy who did it and publicly admitted that he was not gay.

For a guy without much power, Daryle Ward sure had a lot of power. He's also the only guy ever to hit a home run into the Allegheny River.

it sickens me that Piazza spent more time as a Met than a Dodger.

When the Hall comes a calling it better be Dodger blue he is sporting.

109 110 thank you for that, I never knew willie stargell hit two balls out, I can't even imagine how strong he must of been to knock to homers out of the ravine before the steroids era..

I think it's more impressive that Stargell hit a ball out of Dodger Stadium when home plate was further back.

I just noticed in the Dodger Math piece by Andrew, this note near the bottom:

>>"It was really just his opportunity to say goodbye and thank you to the fans," said Ken Gurnick, a spokesman for the Beverly Hills Sports Council, which represents the 29-year-old catcher who played his first home game with the Marlins on Wednesday night."<<

Maybe the trade is why Gurnick hates the Dodgers so much. :)

90

... I think the most memorable moments for me with regards to Piazza were spread out over four months in 1993. Michael had only hit 4 homers in April and another 4 in May. So, it was still up in the air for me as to whether he hat legitimate power and would end up with 20-25 homers, or whether the pitchers would "figure him out" and he would decline the rest of the way.

He instead proceeded to hit 27 homers in the last four months of the season, culminating in those two he hit to slam the door on the Giants on the last day of the season. The feeling that we were watching the start of something and someone very special just kept building all year, as he learned to make adjustments at the plate from at-bat to at-bat.

Another moment I'll never forget was Michael returning to his hometown at the 1996 All-Star Game in Philly. Piazza, of course wearing his home whites, faced Charlie Nagy. He got an inside pitch to hit -- and hammered an absolute BOMB to left that just electrified the crowd there. It was a magic moment.

May 14, 1998: A dark day in Tommy Lasorda's life. Piazza traded. Sinatra dies.

126 - My Dad turns 63. What a cruel birthday present the Piazza trade was.

Is Piazza the only Dodger home-grown HOF to be sent away and play out the rest of thier productive career with another team. How many other teams in recent years have traded away their own future HOF before he started his decline? I can't think of many. Roger Clemens?

126 - Sinatra's death won me my office's ghoul pool.
I immediately gave the money to a church.

124 As someone who remembers his days with The Sporting News, I can assure you that Gurnick hated the Dodgers long before the Piazza trade.

It's not a Dodger moment, but Piazza's 8th inning HR at Shea in the first game in NY after 9/11 was pretty electric.

128
Are you not counting Pedro?

If not, Winfield counts for SD.

Frank Robinson is a famous one. (And Clemens, who left Boston as a free agent, is not.)

132 - As does Ozzie Smith.

60 73 "Plantar fasciitis"

It's not really a specific malady - it can cover a multitude of ill-defined ones. It basically just means "sore foot".

134
Actually, Winfield wasn't traded, so I messed that one up. Ozzie is kind of different since he was terrible with SD and great with StL.

"sore foot" sounds like a malady to me :)

132 To be fair, Roberto Clemente, though never to wear a Brooklyn Dodger uniform, might be the best one.

Take a look at these youtube presentations of the Mets love for Piazza. Dodgers fans should be saddened. We were shamed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hr9uVCCiB8
And his last game as a Met.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcUnmujPp7I&feature=related

General request for help on a DTism: what means "LAT" as a verb?

So does Ardoin coming up mean more Russell Martin at 3rd, and no LaRoche (at either 2nd or 3rd)?

128 Do players like A-Rod, Ken Griffey, Johann Santana, Delgado(maybe?), Sheffield (maybe, Randy Johnson, Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, etc. count or am I totally misunderstanding the question?

128 I would definitely count Pedro although the Dodgers never allowed him to reach his potential as a starter. I think Winfield is the best comparison since he had some great years with the Padres before they let him go. I remember Ozzie as a good field, no-hit SS when with San Diego and never expected him to be reach the HOF early in his career with the Padres. Frank Robinson is a good one, but a little before my time.

138 - wasn't he let go after the Dodgers were in LA, though?

Whomever the Lakers traveling secretary is should get a raise. First the Nuggets bus catches on fire, not the Spurs are stuck for a night on the tarmac in New Orleans.

http://tinyurl.com/6zf2xf

My memory of the ball Piazza hit out of DS was that I was watching on a game-of-the-week broadcast and I was shouting to the announcers that Piazza had just hit the ball over the pavillion. Because they weren't even noting it.

I also vaguely remember a time when Piazza doubled past shortstop. Hit a one or two hopper by the SS who was playing more or less straight away that made it all the way to the wall before the outfielder could run it down.

144 - answering my own question, no, he wasn't:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/clemero01.shtml

140
what means "LAT" as a verb?

Named after famed DT commenter and noted high-profile attorney LAT, to "LAT" is to post a comment after Jon has effectively ended the thread via a "NPUT".

139 Mike Piazza gets a long standing ovation when he first returns to Shea as a Padre. Mike Piazza gets booed when he returns to Dodger Stadium. And we wonder why he will probably wear a Mets cap in the HOF?

When Piazza returned to Dodger Stadium as a Met, he got booed.

When he returned to Shea as a Padre, he got several standing ovations, even after he hit two home runs which threatened to beat the Mets.

The Mets did more to deserve him than the Dodgers did. And that includes the fans.

149 I cringed every mets/padres game I went to and heard Piazza booed. Worst feeling I've had as a fan of the blue.

150 Or, what he said.

135 have you ever had plantar fasciitis? I have and can tell it's more than just a "sore foot". I've had numerous knee surgeries, sprained ankles, shoulder injuries, etc. Plantar fasciitis is extremely troublesome. Very painfull and does not go away quickly at all. Not just some label they throw on a sore foot.

i do have to admit, it's kind of weird sitting here at work in the afternoon and not having to keep checking up it the line up has been posted... this is kind of boring and no fun, too bad jacque jones got signed maybe we could've picked him up to create a crowded OF again.

I have to join in on the DT lingo question, now that I know what LAT means, what then is NPUT...and acronym for something?

142 I was trying to point out future HOF players that were traded. Not those who left as free agents like A-Rod. But you definitely came up with some good ones that were traded.

155
NPUT = New Post Up Top.

155 - New Post Up Top.

wait what does LAT mean?

157 158 gracias

159 nm

Loaiza, Jones, Bennett . . . So when Colletti & Co. decide to place someone on the DL, do they immediately just bust up laughing? I smell an investigation a-comin'.

147 I saw this recently upon the passing of Buzzy Bavasi. The timeframe is the fall of 1954.

BizBall: It's been well documented that O'Malley and Rickey were quite different people. Some might say they were oil and water…

Bavasi: The best way to describe that is with Clemente. I had a deal with Mr. Rickey. Mr. Rickey asked me to go to Pittsburgh with him. And said, I'm sorry I was going to stay with the Dodger group, whom I knew.

And he wrote me a letter saying if anytime he could help me, all I had to do was pick up the phone. So, we couldn't bring Clemente up [from Montreal] because we had to keep him on the club under the old rules if he got more than a $4,000 bonus. And I know that Rickey had first [pick in the] draft, so I flew to Pittsburgh. And he agreed with me that he would take John Rutherford that would have let us keep Clemente.

So I'm home free and I call Fresco [Thompson] and we were happy about it. And this was a Friday. The draft is on a Monday. Sunday evening Branch Rickey, Jr. called and said "Buzzie, the deal is off" and I said, "Why?" And he said, "My father and Walter had an argument and he called my father every obscene name in the book therefore he's going to take Clemente" and that was it.

LAT is not an acronym or initialism here. Instead, it's a state of being.

153 I'm with mac, I had this not that long ago and it was a royal, well, pain. It's better now, but it took several trips to a foot specialist, new special ortho inserts for my shoes, and special stretches. It was caused by playing soccer on astroturf, in my case, on shoes that were more made for regular grass. Once I switched shoes and got those padded inserts it was much better, but my heel especially hurt like heck for a while. So I guess I have some sympathy for Bennett...

Though this could also just be a concocted malady to get him on the DL since they won't accept "general suckyness" as a medical condition. ;-)

But, yeah, plantar fascitis is no fun. It can be the bottom of your foot, but the pain can manifest itself along the heel or side of the foot.

when arodian catches let's make sure nomar is playing 3b

I don't think Bennett can use plantar fascitis for his soft tosses back to the mound or his infamous throw over 40 feet over Loney's head on Friday.

how espn says Piazza hang sit up after 16, while dodgers.com says after 19...who's wrong?

man i really have to start previewing my comments, that was just ugly

I wish Piazza the best in the future. I agree it stank that he got traded. It's nice to be reminded that all these fan faves will probably be traded soon as well.

Ardoin and plantar fasciitis are double-barreled proofreaders' nightmares!

167 Maybe he has plantar ulnaritis, or brainus crampus, too.

--

You know, LAT'd and NPUT'd is one thing; but hopefully people will behave here well enough because you don't want to get underdog'd. No sirree.

167 This just in: Mark Sweeney has restless leg syndrome.

168
16 years in the majors (1992-2007), 19 in baseball (1989-2007).

I may have had plantar fasciitis a while back, though never diagnosed as such. Just woke up one day and it felt like somebody had taken a sledgehammer to the small bones on the side of my foot. I tried ignoring it for a few days but the pain got so excruciating I eventually went to a podiatrist, who gave me a special shoe to wear. After a couple weeks, the pain disappeared.

166 - and with that typo, Danny went from being French to Armenian!

Yeah, I was thinking LaRoche may not want to be called up if Ardoin was also called up, for safety's sake, but then realized he's been playing with him in Vegas for weeks and no injuries. They should call up Repko too and then give everyone flak jackets.

... Here's a quote from Joe Torre on Blake DeWitt, in case anyone actually thinks that DeWitt will keep his 3B job after Nomar's healthy:

DeWitt's single helped the Dodgers avoid their eighth loss in 11 games and prompted Manager Joe Torre to say of the 22-year-old who hadn't played above the double-A level until this season,

"He might not be the greatest player in the world, but he's going to have a long career."

... Pardon my asking, but what the heck does Torre mean by THAT? Talk about a backhanded compliment; it's like Torre's having a fit that he's having to play someone other than Nomar.

178 - Maybe I'm taking it too literally, but I take it as a forehanded compliment. Saying this 22-year-old will be along for a long time is a good thing.

If you're interpreting that as Torre having a fit about playing DeWitt, I think your own fears have clouded you.

If Repko is ever recalled (and I hope the only way it happens is to replace a just-traded Juan Pierre), I will refer to him as Carpet Bomb.

178 Yeah, that quote can be interpreted a lot of different ways. I don't think it's anything to get all hot and bothered about.

Blake DeWitt is, in fact, not the greatest baseball player who exists in the world. It could be something as simple as Torre trying to temper people's expectations so that when the inevitable regression to the mean comes, DeWitt's not viewed by people as a failure.

It could be a lot of things.

181 He certainly will make a few more outs with the bases loaded hopefully they won't be in crucial situations like last night.

178 Don't forget who Torre's last third basebman was. He is basically saying that DeWitt is no A-Rod, but he will find a way to stick in the big leagues. Whenever I hear Torre talk about DeWitt, it sounds like he is a big fan of the kid. You are taking his statement the wrong way.

Let us fondly remember on this solemn day the game in which Michael Joseph Piazza stole two bases against the A's:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN199708280.shtml

Both steals were back ends of a double steal (one with Eric Young, the other with Otis Nixon), but they count nonetheless!

My greatest E-Sport memory ever is going 8-8 with Big Mike, hitting four home runs and the cycle in one game.

Even in Pixelated Ken Griffey 64 land, Mike Piazza hitting a triple was a sight to see.

174 ah thanks for the clarification

Piazza will forever be involved in the most memorable moment I ever had in person at Dodger Stadium. September 21, 1997 — a little over a week after I met my future wife — I watched Piazza get hold of a ball and send it over the left field pavilion into the players' parking lot. And I was there to see it and still have my mouth agape at the sight.

The day he was traded began my disillusionment with the Dodgers under Fox ownership that earned me the nickname "Dodger Refugee" from friends and family. And the fact that he is likely going in the Hall of Fame as a Met just revisits that pain.

That said, remembering the hoopla that surrounded the retirements of Johnny Bench and Carlton Fisk, I don't quite understand why more isn't being made of Piazza's departure considering that he is, by far, the best hitting catcher in the history of the game. There is no question that Piazza is a first-ballot hall of famer … and when that moment comes, number 31 should be retired in Chavez Ravine.

179 ,181

... Why not say that DeWitt is doing a great job thus far, he's been our best hitter since Furcal went down, and just leave it at that?

I mean, what if Torre was just starting his managerial career and Coletti was quoted as saying "Yeah, well Torre's not the greatest manager in the World, but he'll be doing it for a lot of years."?

I would expect a manager to show a little more outward loyalty and confidence in his players, instead of essentially saying that his rookie third baseman looks to be a journeyman.

Maybe it's just me, and if it is that's fine, but I'm sure that if Nomar was having a stretch like this, there would be no shortage of Torre accolades to describe him and his play.

My wife just called and she is very bummed. 16 years after the earthquake we are still fixing things in our house and his whole career has come and gone. By the time Matt Kemps career is over all of you who have kids will have seen them graduate.
Luckily I have a game to go to tonight otherwise I might be hiding in a hole. I can deal with just about any situation by ignoring it, the passing of time is hard for me to ignore.

181 regression to the mean...it would be great if Torre knew what the heck that was...

188 I agree with you. When DeWitt finally misses on a bases loaded opportunity, or has a couple of bad days in a row, Torre will say how we never expected much from that kid. Whereas if it is Nomar, he'll say he's had a long and successful career and should be given the benefit of the doubt.

188 yea i agree too, I just don't think it was worded appropriately, and while I'm sure Torre's intentions were not to give a back handed compliment, it certainly comes off a bit that way.

We can all take solace in the fact that tonight's lineup will likely have 6 of the highest 21 career OPS in LA Dodger history:

7. Blake DeWitt .904
10. James Loney .881
13. Jeff Kent .861
16. Matt Kemp .836
17. Russell Martin .826
21. Andre Ethier .820

Piazza is 3rd on the list by the way, behind a former Marlin and a Marlon.

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/UMmC

Does this have the aura of being a backhanded compliment?

From Dodgers.com, last night's game story.

In a season with more questions than answers, DeWitt has been, in Torre's words, "a godsend."

"The kid has the ability to use the whole field, and that's his biggest advantage," Torre said. "I thought his first swing, where he missed, was forced. But the rest of his at-bat was very poised, which is very uncharacteristic for someone with his limited experience."

Tonight's lineup:

Pierre, LF
Ethier, RF
Martin, C
Kent, 2B
Loney, 1B
Kemp, CF
DeWitt, 3B
Hu, SS
Billingsley, P

194 no, not at all...such niceness coming from Torre on DeWitt...

has he been traded to Kansas City or Tampa yet?

188 - Torre has been effusive about DeWitt the entire season. You're taking one quote, giving it the worst possible interpretation, and forming a general opinion from it.

How much he likes Nomar may be another matter. But Torre has said nothing to indicate he doesn't love DeWitt.

Didn't Torre also "compliment" Blake by saying something along the lines of "he hasn't hurt us out there" as well though

195 see that's so anit-climatic

Loney sure has been getting a good deal of grief from some people lately for someone in the top 10 in Los Angeles history.

198 - That was in the context of the Dodgers - and 99 percent of Dodger fans - having the lowest possible expectations for Blake.

200 ya i don't get it either, you can tell loney has been in a pro-longed mini slump yet he's still ops .790, any day i expect him to go on a tear, last night he had some good AB's

200 Do you know how many throwing errors he's made this season that were his fault? It's at least one.

195 What is everyone going to complain about? Does this mean no soccer posts to placate the crowds?

195 6 Dodgers that have been drafted or signed by the Dodgers and developed by the system, 1 who was acquired and played his first MLB game as a Dodger and two free agents.

Outside of having Young play 2B or OF in this game, this lineup represents the largest group of homegrown talent this team can throw out there at any given time.

199

... Yeah, I'm glad Torre has so much confidence in DeWitt that he's actually batting ahead of Chin-Lung Hu in the batting order. Mighty charitable of Joe.

200 I was shocked at how quickly everyone jumped all over J-Lo..

201 And yea that was the context of the quote, I wasn't ticked off by that, but thought it could also be seen as "Back Handed".

Isn't it old news that Torre isn't quick to praise young guys and tend to give vets the benefit of the doubt though?

202 Loney's actually been one of our better hitters in May. Really only him, Martin, and the guy at third have been hitting since Furcal went down.

I hear ya 189 I only have one regret now and thats that my son was born 10 years ago. I had a bunch of things I though mattered, but didn't.

I feel I wasted almost 10 years in selfish pursuits I could mostly take back. Not this one. live and learn i guess

Ardoin has an .854 OPS in Las Vegas, .905 in May and is 12 for his last 32 with four walks.

I pretty much already know the answer to this question, but I wonder if Pierre will move down (#7 or 8 spot) or stay at the top of the lineup (#2 spot) when Furcal gets back.

Pierre has started 1st or 2nd in 24 of his 31 starts, including tonight. The other seven times he was 7th or 8th.

Further invalidating anything anyone has done in Vegas.

205 Unless the dream of seeing LaRoche or DeWitt get a start at 2nd along side the other at 3rd ever comes true..

I was at the game last night, and it sure was fun to see. Kemp's throws from center were awesome.

Did anyone see the close up of Kemp's pick off? I thought for sure he made it back in time, but maybe his hand hung up on the dirt rather than going straight to the bag?

211 - My guess is when Furcal comes back Pierre will bat #2 at the outset, and then when he reverts to Slappy McPopup again he'll move down. I'd love to see Delwyn steal a start or two from him, particularly if Jones does go on the DL. We'll see.

210 plus one hit fielder

Yeah, I'm actually excited to see whom the Dodgers call up to replace Andruw on the 25-man roster. Since Nomar won't be ready, I want to say all signs point to LaRoche but I'd rather not get my hopes up. That way I won't be emotionally crushed when Andy is stuck in the green room waiting for the call, so to speak.

214 - The throw came in at just the perfect spot. He was out, but he got kind of a bad break (after he leaned the wrong way, that is).

Reading over Andrew's Piazza collection, I see this letter:

"As much as I'll miss Mike Piazza (OK, and you too Todd Zeile), it's about time that something was done.

It equates well to a game of Scrabble. You can have all of the most valuable letters–J, Q, Z and X–but regardless of how much potential each individual letter has, as a whole they do nothing. "Jqzx" isn't a word. You can keep hoping that something is going to give, but how long do you hang on to those letters before you trade them in and begin anew? Definitely not three years. It's just too bad that Bill Russell couldn't have been thrown into the deal.

JOSH SEGAL, San Diego

I've been playing a lot of Scrabble lately, and I can tell you that this guy's knowledge of how to win at Scrabble is just as poor as his assessment of the Piazza trade.

188-By the same token, if Nomar were having a stretch like this, would you then say "he's our best hitter since Furcal went down," and leave it at that? Or would you maybe say something else?

Just wondering.

218
He may have gotten a bad break, but Kemp's got an awful lot to live for.

214 - I really thought, from looking at slow-mo replay on TV, that he had indeed just made it back in time, but it's one of those "ties sometimes goes to the defense" calls and he didn't argue. It was very close. But he did look just safe to me.

not born. sorry

220 no...you'd say "isn't his wife the one who..."

221 like peace on earth, goodwill toward men...stuff like that?

189 209 I'm 22 and the thought of time passing me by is downright frightening.

I do love how the Piazza trade was about chemistry and money, and the guy we got back is probably the worst citizen in baseball, and had just recieved the largest contract ever.

226 you have no idea....

226 Piazza retiring is the second time I've felt old in my life after "realizing I'm older than my dad was when I was born."

The Bruins beat the Bears today to win title 102 as they win their first ever NCAA Championship in Women's Tennis.

There is no truth to the rumor that next season, the basketball uniform will be changed to UCII.

There are 3 teams in post-season competition right now, but the going will be tough for them to win a title, my hunch is on the softball team but times have changed a bit since that program dominated the sport.

Wow - same lineup 1-8 two days in a row. Has that happened yet this season?

226 that is why we travel so much and do so much for our kids and for others...I am not going to be one who looks back and has regrets for what I wanted to do but never did...

231
April 29-30 in Florida
May 2-3 in Colorado

220

... I have never been shy about praising Nomar, or any Dodger. I have praised him on this site many times. My beef with the 3B situation is with Torre, for putting Nomar in a situation that wasn't best for the team, as there were and are younger players better than he is. That's not Nomar's fault; he's had a great career and he's merely going through the same decline phase that everyone before him has gone through. I know that he's giving 100%, it's just that 100% of him isn't equal to what it once was.

When Nomar was in the games, I rooted for him to do well. If he was going through the same stretch that Blake is now, I absolutely would say he's our best hitter since Furcal went down. I don't have any issue with any player on the team, or actively root against any Dodger.

234 yes, but isn't his wife the one who....

232 Yeah I'm getting into that frame of mind. I started working last year after college and that's when I started to realize how precious time is and how fast it can disappear.

221 ,225
Think of Peter Boyle in a top hat.

226 Sigh... ;-)

Anyway, it is good you have that realization now. When I was just outta college I felt like everything would move slow and things would be like that forever. Er, in some ways I'm kinda glad things weren't like that forever. Then if you lose a close loved one, as many of us have, it reminds you even more abruptly and painfully how precious everything is.

>sob!< This conversation is bumming me out.

Now back to baseball. I'm excited about the weekend series with the Cards, for once, because of Furcal's return and whatever other wackiness is up the Dodgers' sleeve.

234 - But why are you seeming to grind an axe so hard, then? Right now, there is no DeWitt-Nomar issue. DeWitt is playing every day. He is getting praised. The worst thing that's been said about him is he isn't A-Rod. So what's the problem?

I'll say it again. The last time that DeWitt was benched, he was OPSing .730. He is currently keeping the best Dodger prospect - who is older and more experienced - in Las Vegas. Blake DeWitt has been treated more than fairly by Joe.

There was almost no proof that at the time of his benching, Blake was better than Nomar.

237 All right, you win. You win. I give. I'll say it. I'll say it. I'll say it. DESTINY! DESTINY! NO ESCAPING THAT FOR ME! DESTINY!

Sorry... er, what were we talking about?

we decided long ago that we were not going to wait for retirement to do things...we want to do things and go places when we are young enough to enjoy the experiences...

we spend way too much, but when you see friends and acquaintances dropping at 40, 50...you realize you have to enjoy every minute when you can...maximize time with your kids and family, going to Dodger games for me, traveling around the world...

239 Jon, we're just yanking your chain...the only Blake I ever really placed great reliance on was Carrington...

In 1983, I was 18 and working as a clubhouse attendant for the Dodgers. In August of that year, I was traveling with the team in Philadelphia. I remember a 14 year old kid from Philadelphia who took batting practice with the team during an afternoon workout before one of the night games. Someone told me that his dad was one of Tommy's good friends. The kid later shared the batboy duties with me that evening and during the rest of the 3 game series. I didn't even remember his name or know that he was drafted by the Dodgers five years later in 1988. When I saw a picture of him in a Dodger uniform during spring training in the early 90's, I suddenly realized that this was Mike, the same kid that I briefly worked with as a batboy in 1983. Today, Mike Piazza retires as arguably, the greatest hitting catcher in the history of the game.

238 Yeah I'm glad, too.

241 That's the attitude I'm starting to have.

Anyway... I'm really not worried about DeWitt and Nomar. DeWitt has turned enough heads.

241 - The key for me, retroactively, was to travel a lot before the kids. Because I ain't goin' anywhere these days.

244 I'm more worried about Furcal's back and our starting pitching than anything else...we can't go wrong with either DeWitt or LaRoche at 3B...and our youngsters are getting the chance and producing...but to go anywhere, we need Penny and Lowe to give us more quality, and we need Furcal in the lineup...

There have been nine catchers to have a season with a 150 OPS+ (minimum 300 PA). Eight of the nine only accomplished this feat once.

Mike Piazza has six such seasons.

245 wrong attitude...

we took our kids to nice places even as young as 3 mths old, we have taken them traveling around the world, they have each been on more cruises than many adults ever will...

they know how to travel, they know how to behave in a fancy restaurant...

we never let them hold us back for one minute...having them with us only enhanced our experiences

243
You throw us a bone every once in a while.
You must have a gazillion stories, when are your going to start breaking them out?

we weren't 3 mths old, our kids were...I am not from Kentucky...

245 I agree. It is so hard to even go down to San Diego for a weekend. I can't wait till the kids grow up a little bit and then we can go on trips or on vacations.

I used to love driving up the coast and going to Monterey, San Francisco and further up north in my 20s. I think between 1997 and 2004, I must have taken a trip along those roads about 15-20 times. Now with a 3 year old and a 6 month old baby, it's impossible to imagine that trip happening in the next 4 years at least.

247
I meant to say 14 catchers, with 13 having a 150 OPS+ once. Stupid facts.

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/ydRp

Mike Mussina was pulled after giving up just one ER and 0.2IP. However, his WHIP took a beating.

248 - Don't get me wrong. We travel. But it's always to New York to see my wife's family, or Colorado for an occasional ski trip. I'm not disagreeing with your philosophy. but the cold hard reality is I get 10 or so days of vacation each year, one salary to spend on it, and most of that has to be spent with my wife's family.

Give me the vacation time and the financial support, and we'll be on the next plane.

ARod returns and the Yankee's are down 7 runs in the 1st inning. Looks like they will be in last another night.

243 That's a great story.

248 One thing I can see us doing is more cruises. We took our son on a Mexican cruise last May when my wife was pregnant, and I can see us doing that again. We are also planning on going to Cabo next year with the kids and hanging out at a resort.

I love traveling and I guess we will take vacations, but the type of vacations have definitely changed. We like going to Europe, but that's tough with little kids especially since I'm a big art and history buff and my son won't spend 10 minutes in an art museum. Also, it's tougher to go on vacations where we can hike and walk around a lot.

239

... I think that my issues with Torre re: DeWitt/Nomar have been outlined pretty well.

1-When Nomar was healthy enough to play, he immediately got the job at 3B and was batting 3rd in most of his games.

2-Not only was DeWitt benched immediately, he was SENT DOWN.

3-Despite DeWitt's production and results as a hitter, he's batting 7th while inferior hitters like Kent and Pierre are batting leadoff and 4th respectively.

4-The backhanded compliment I posted above.

That doesn't even include other issues within the team -- such as Young being left to rot and Ethier being benched for a spell in favor of inferior veteran players like Jones and Pierre. I respect you and hbsportsguy, but I respectively disagree with you in that the young talent is being given a full chance to succeed on this team. In my opinion, the youngsters are being given a chance only when there's no other veteran option available.

Yikes. And Bronx Banter is not the happiest place on earth. Nick, you're welcome to hang out here tonight until it's safer. ;-)

254 well that's good, just never let your kids make you feel tied down...everything with them makes things better...

254. 10 days a year, that's brutal. You should see if Bob is hiring. :)
vr, Xei

249 Too many. I should really start writing them down before I get too old and start forgetting them all. One of the funny things that Mike said to me in 1983 is that he called me lucky because I got to work with the team everyday while he only got to see them when they came to Philadelphia. If he only knew what the future would hold!

257 you might be surprised, we took our kids on a mediterranean cruise, and on another to the baltic states...

I am a history buff as well, and our kids actually enjoyed themselves...and probably much of their enjoyment came from spending alot of quality time with us...

contrary to what it may seem here, I am a pretty fun guy...lol

262 You should get in touch with Mike and see if he remembers you!

at least I used to be, if memory serves...

Chad Billingsley has sort of been the anti-Shawn Chacon this season (which is great no matter how you slice it), with a decision in each of his eight starts.

258 - 1) He was the incumbent. Batting order isn't really relevant.

2) DeWitt was very arguably better off playing every day in Las Vegas than riding the bench.

3) I guess this matters to people - it doesn't really matter to me. The No. 7 guy was the guy in position to win the game last night.

4) Here, I can't help but think you're just being stubborn.

Look, I've written chapter and verse about the need for Ethier to play, etc. But up to this moment, you've been talking about DeWitt, and he is simply not the poster child for the Dodgers mistreating their kids.

243
Neat story. I have come late to the Piazza party, but would have loved to have seen him retire has a Dodger. He was the one home grown Dodger who I remember watching alot who will go into the Hall of Fame, Pedro wasn't around long enough and don't think Garvey will ever get in.

The dark side if the Piazza story for me was the whole way MLB was slow to approve the sale to Fox, which then prevented O'Malley or he decided to bow to the pressure of MLB, they signed Mondesi, but he left the signing of Piazza to what would become the Fox ownership, which never fully appreciated what they had in both Piazza and the Dodgers and really just used it to expand their sports market and their MLB holdings. While my anger was primarily aimed at Fox, I also felt O'Malley and MLB, especially O'Malley should have been more careful who he sold the team to.

If he could have found better local ownership who could have paid close to the same price, I always thought Piazza would have had the contract he wanted or perhaps backed off a bit; stayed a Dodger and they would have found a way to win it all in a few years! But like alot of things in life it doesn't always have the Hollywood ending. While Piazza had a ton of endorsements in New York and lived the great Superstar Life, I always thought he would have been alot bigger had he stayed here!

Ethier, hmmm, that name used to mean something...

The Reds continue to parade former Dodger catchers with tonight's lineup:

Corey Patterson cf
Paul Janish ss
Ken Griffey Jr. rf
Brandon Phillips 2b
Adam Dunn lf
Edwin Encarnacion 3b
Joey Votto 1b
David Ross c
Matt Belisle p

I just went and checked out Bronx Banter. That place is not kid friendly.

243 Somebody should look through the tapes of those old Dodger games in Philadelphia and see if they can find footage of Piazza as the batboy. That would be pretty cool.

264 I doubt it. I have kept in touch with a few of the players, but after 25 years, you move on with your life and keep all the good memories.

229 Next year I get to realize I'm older than when my father died. That's assuming I get that far.

Mark Hendrickson is off to an interesting start against the Snakes. vr, Xei

272 I know that if you watched the tapes from that series in August 1983, you would see him picking up bats. I don't know how to obtain that footage, but I would sure love to have it. And I am fairly certain that 1983 was not the only year that he dressed as a batboy for Dodger games at the Vet.

Piazza was probably my favorite Dodger growing up, I hope he goes into the hall with a LA cap on.

276
The Dodgers actually lost one of those August games in Philly, which is amazing since they went 11-1 against them in 1983. Too bad the Phillies pulled a "1988 Dodgers" to turn the tables in the NLCS.

10

I'd be next in line Bob, & I think the line would be like the one at Dodger Stadium shuttle buses to the Coliseum.

Big Bird pitched well against them in a game last season, too, if I recall...

Okay folks, who cares about baseball, it's NBA lottery time! Who are you rooting for to get the first 2 picks?

280. Clippers and Team B.
vr, Xei

267

1-Now wait a second. You said in #166 of "Andruw Jones Gets Kneedled" that Nomar lost his job to a kid. So it's an open job, is it not? Blake ended up getting it by default and played better than Nomar did last season, albeit in a very small sample size. So ...

2- ... did he deserve to automatically ride the bench when Nomar came back? Or could he have been used in a platoon role, with perhaps some pinch-hitting and defensive replacement duties on the days he didn't start? I thought DeWitt deserved at least a part-time role on the big club.

3-In my honest opinion, batting order placement reflects the manager's confidence and respect for that player. Especially when we're talking about an old school guy like Torre, who doesn't seem to be a sabermetric convert like you and I. Sure, statistically we know of course that it really doesn't matter much where a guy hits in the order. But I don't think that has anything to do with Torre's rationale behind his batting orders.

4-That's OK. I AM stubborn; can't deny it. But I truly don't think he would ever use that type of a comment in reference to a veteran player. If you do, that's fine. I just didn't like it, and I thought it fit right in line with his and the Dodgers M.O. regarding the young players on this team.

236 When you're 20, 10 years is half of your life. When you're 40, 10 years is only a quarter of your life. Life does indeed speed up.

4 Late in commenting, but readers of BP will be familiar with JAWS, which is Jay Jaffe's hall of fame criteria based upon peak and career totals of WARP (Wins Above Replacement).

It would appear, based upon a rushed calculation, that Piazza's JAWS score is higher than the average Hall of Fame catcher, and hence, the data backs up the argument that he had both a sufficient peak and a sufficiently lengthy career to be inducted.

I think his career would have been extended, and his Hall of Fame candidacy made even more clear cut, if he had been switched to a less physically deteriorating defensive position earlier in his career. Quite simply, he was a fearsome, awesome hitter. I can picture his swing and recall most clearly the way he'd drive the ball to the opposite field for a home run, winding up his swing standing nearly straight up. An extremely impressive hitter!

280
I'd like to see Portland add to their stellar collection of young talent. Add in Memphis for #2 just as an "atta boy" for the Gasol trade.

285 Portland's gonna be scary good really soon. I don't want them to get any better =/.

I feel like Portland is already loading up, but I like them. I'd be happy for Memphis, too, or the Clippers. Part of me is rooting for the Knicks, who have been in disarray, because my dad is a pained Knicks fan and it would be fun to see them not blow something for once.

284

Piazza's numbers, From Baseball Reference:

Gray Ink: Batting - 101 (222) (Average HOFer ≈ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 53.9 (55) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 205.0 (38) (Likely HOFer > 100)

Why would anyone ever feel sorry for the Knicks? Or their fans?

Ever.

286
I would love it if Portland became a great team. The league needs great teams. I still would want the Lakers to beat them, of course.

278 The Dodgers owned the Phillies during the regular season that year and nobody expected the Phillies to win the series. Especially after the Dodgers had beaten Philly in the playoffs in 77 and 78. It just seemed like we had their number. But I remember Steve Carlton beating Jerry Reuss 1-0 at Dodger Stadium in Game #1 with a HR by Mike Schmidt. Then they lost games 3 and 4 at the Vet and it was over.

287 they already blew it in their coaching search to replace thomas...it isn't getting any better any time soon

289 - I feel sorry for my dad. He's been a loyal Knicks fan for like 50-60 years. You gotta problem wid dat? I don't feel sorry for their management, but I do think they have loyal fans who deserve better than that morass.

280
Any info on the Clips? Ralph Lawler called me today and said we had a 25% chance at a top 3 pick. I told him, he was full of it but he just kept on talking.

I stopped feeling sorry for the Knicks after Willis Reed hobbled onto the court and ruined my young life.

The Clippers have the 6th best chance of getting the #1 ball, at 75 out of 1000. The Heat, Sonics and Wolves had the best chance.

And here we go...

282 - I guess I've lost track of what we're arguing about. I've never denied that Torre has an affinity for veterans. And I agree that DeWitt could have stayed on the roster, could be batting higher in the order. But the central question I thought we were arguing is, "Does Torre like DeWitt?" I still find the answer to be unequivocally yes.

Liking DeWitt and liking Nomar are not mutually exclusive. Taking it cautious with young players in terms of playing time, batting order and such is a time-honored philosophy; many people believe it's good for young players development. Just because what the Dodgers think is good for Nomar is different from what they think is good for DeWitt doesn't mean they're down on one or the other.

292
I don't know if the Knicks blew it with D'Antoni. Some would say the Knicks don't fit D'Anotni's system, but the Knicks' roster doesn't really fit any system, does it?

If anything, D'Antoni "blew it" by choosing the Knicks. From a team quality perspective, not a money perspective of course. The Bulls may have been a better choice for D'Antoni; then again, there is really no pressure for D'Antoni since the Knicks can't get much worse.

283 I don't think that's the reason. Minutes and hours go by faster too. I remember as kid the 20 minutes it took to make Kraft Dinner seemed like an eternity. A 2 hour drive was like being in the Donner Party. I don't believe the difference is because .00001% of my life had passed instead of .000001%.

Oh, they do it in reverse order.

Golden State got the 14th ball (hah hah) - that's where they were slotted to go anyway. Then Portland (13), Sac (12), Indiana (11), NJ (10), Charlotte (9)...

Clippers will pick 7th -- sorry guys. Knicks 6th - sorry, Dad. Memphis -- 5th. Seattle - 4th.

Oh man...

I can't believe the freaking Bulls will get a top 3 pick.

Maybe D'Antoni should have waited til after the draft to decide between the Bulls and the Knicks.

... Everything seems to be going according to form in the lottery thus far.

Which means the best player in the draft will be the sixth pick.

297 on the one hand...and on the other hand...and on the...wait I am running out of hands...

305 - Oh man, Kevin Love on the Knicks. Poor guy. I can just see that now.

Unless your Beasely or Rose who cares about the 3rd pick? That pick will flopping around for the next month.

3rd pick ... Minny
2nd pick ... Heat!

So...

That's just totally unfair!

Yah, I think D'Antoni took the wrong gig.

Wow, the 33-49 Bulls get the top pick!

307
You think Love will go in the top 10?

The Bulls odds were 17:1000 and they get the top slot.

311 Not likely, but possible. I could see the Knicks taking him (against his will, probably).

-281-

I have wondered for years, but never asked. Do you type out "vr, Xei" at the end of each post or do you have a script?

Ok, I've tried , -#-, and .#. . How do you link to another comment?

315 Use "[" and "]" around the comment # (without the quotes

by the way TC great quick right-up on Piazza.

297

... I don't think it's that we've lost track of it, it's just that I'm reacting more to some of the decisions and quotes re: DeWitt than you are. Again, that's OK. My reactions (or over-reactions) are simply a result the Dodgers' reluctance to play the young guys over the last couple years.

I'm a big believer in the Bill James belief that "every game or season you wait to bring a guy up is a game or season of that player's career that you lose." I'm always going to be partial toward playing young guys who've shown they can do things at this level, more so than guys who are in obvious decline and just hanging on their reputations. And I'm very disappointed in the people like Coletti, Little, and Torre who have made decisions showing that they are partial to the guys who are on the way down.

NPUT

188 etc. - I agree with you. I DON'T think this is over-interpreting what Torre is saying. I got LAT'd in one of the previous posts, but it took 70-something games before Loney dislodged Nomar at first. It'll likely take a similar number of games before DeWitt dislodges Nomar.

Dude, I remember watching Piazza hit a Curt Schilling 95+ heater about head high for a home run, You don't see that that often, he was OUR mythical creature.

how many guys in this draft will ever play in an nba all-star game? not a strong draft..

Just gotta add my comment for the sake of posterity re: Mikey Likes It. He was my favorite Dodger. The guy was one of those players who could draw fans out to the ballpark simply in anticipation of what he might do. I never saw a Dodger crush a ball like him. I thought the trade was one of the dumbest I'd ever heard of. I was pretty hurt and I thought the media overstated their point saying he wanted a trade. You just don't trade a guy who, even at that time, after five years (and his most productive year that past year .362 40 HRs, 124 ribbies) was clearly going to be one of the greatest-hitting catchers of all-time. I didn't see (OK, yeah, I wasn't in the clubhouse much) any of the supposed egomania by which the LAT and other media sources justified the trade. Mike always seemed like a selfless teammate. And those incredible home runs he hit to right field when he extended his swing. Anyway....I might see his like again at his position, but not often.