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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Top Dodger Tools (And I Mean That in the Good Way)
2008-05-30 08:19
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

This is tangentially inspired by Joe Posnanski's latest post. What do you think are the best tools in the Dodger organization? Clayton Kershaw's curveball, or Matt Kemp's speed, or Takashi Saito's smile, or what? Let's get a list.

Comments (246)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-05-30 08:26:08
1.   ibleedbloo
Broxton's Fastball
Kemp's Speed (I think he is the best going 1st to 3rd on the team)
Martin's ability to walk
2008-05-30 08:29:52
2.   Eric Stephen
Repko's arm
Furcal's defense (& arm)
2008-05-30 08:29:58
3.   regfairfield
Loney's contact hitting
Broxton's fastball
Saito's slider
Bills/Kershaw's curve
Pierre's speed
Furcal's arm
LaRoche's patience
2008-05-30 08:31:00
4.   Inside Baseball
The dulcet tones of Vin Scully.
2008-05-30 08:33:21
5.   cargill06
3 speaking of loney, i think he's just so close to going on a tear.
2008-05-30 08:37:48
6.   Eric Stephen
Is it unrealistic that I expect Clayton Kershaw to go undefeated in his major league career?
2008-05-30 08:39:51
7.   D4P
I expect Clayton Kershaw to go undefeated in his major league career

Just like his presidential idol!

2008-05-30 08:42:02
8.   DodgerBlueBruce
Martin's durability.
2008-05-30 08:43:18
9.   Ken Noe
Ethier's resilience. Saito's character.

Off-topic, I have to recommend the latest posting on Cardboard Gods on one of my favorite books, Pat Jordan's A False Spring.

2008-05-30 08:44:19
10.   Eric Stephen
Scott Erickson's changeup.

What do you mean that's his fastball?

2008-05-30 08:54:22
11.   ToyCannon
Kuo's fastball to a lefty, looking Wagnerish to me
Kershaw's curveball
Russel Martins enthusiasm for playing the game.
DeWitt's ability to play a solid defensive 3rd base with stone hands. I would think they would break or the ball would bounce off them alot.
Andruw Jones ability to read where the ball is going when it is hit and his inability to read where the ball is going when it is pitched.
Juan Pierre's ability to convince the baseball establishment that because he's the hardest worker in baseball he deserves to play everyday on a major league team instead of doing what Doug Glanville does for a living.

Regarding the thread below I'll take the C Lee line. KC is in the depths of a huge offensive meltdown, and the Met's have David Wright.

2008-05-30 08:55:50
12.   PHilldodger
Jeff Kent's moustache
2008-05-30 08:56:04
13.   Disabled List
Derek Lowe.
2008-05-30 08:59:27
14.   fanerman
Andre Ethier's boyish good looks.
2008-05-30 08:59:46
15.   Eric Stephen
Just saw this cool organizational chart on Athletics Nation, courtesy of a link from Rob Neyer:

http://tinyurl.com/6dndgt

2008-05-30 09:01:22
16.   ImprobableImpossible
Bowa's helmet
Torre's brain (with memories provided by Penny and Lowe)
Beimel's hair
Ethier's face
Nomar's nose
Kent's mustache
DeWitt's sideburns
Vinny's voice
Saito's smile
Loney's necklace
Kershaw's left arm
Billingsley's right arm
Furcal's hands
Martin's heart
Andruw's belly
Broxton's thighs
Pierre's socks
Kemp's feet
2008-05-30 09:02:00
17.   cargill06
11 so like kershaw +2.5 something like that?
2008-05-30 09:04:01
18.   fanerman
16 All Loney contributes is his necklace? What about his crazy eyes?
2008-05-30 09:05:20
19.   the count
Lowe's sinker
Abreu's injury history
Torre's poker face
Colletti's mustache
Chan Ho Park's bow
2008-05-30 09:06:31
20.   fiddlestick
Brad Penny's contract
Brad Penny's girlfriends
2008-05-30 09:06:49
21.   arborial
19 I think Chan Ho Park's Flying Ninja Kick is definitely an 80
2008-05-30 09:08:49
22.   regfairfield
15 I did something like that for the Dodgers a while back, but without the draft pick compensation and the being good looking part.

http://images.truebluela.com/images/admin/Trade_Tree.gif

You can add Proctor and Brady Clark on there if you want to make it up to date.

2008-05-30 09:09:27
23.   regfairfield
18 His sunglasses subtract from his eye value.
2008-05-30 09:12:41
24.   Eric Stephen
I apologize if this was brought up yesterday, but this was in Keith Law's Thursday chat, about today's starting moundsman:

Dan (Bourne, MA): Jim Callis yesterday said Kershaw>Hamels. Is this true?

SportsNation Keith Law: I agree with that opinion.

2008-05-30 09:14:15
25.   Eric Stephen
22
There are never enough Aposto Garcia mentions on this site.
2008-05-30 09:21:38
26.   underdog
Kershaw's curve.
Russell's demeanor and arm.
Broxton's fastball.
The Bison's speed, arm and raw power.
Furcal's arm.
Loney's swing.
Brad Penny's balloony midsection.

---

Okay, Molly, we're waiting! {tapping foot}

2008-05-30 09:24:51
27.   regfairfield
I'm sure Jon never has the problem of going back to years old posts and wondering what the heck he was thinking when he threw the title on there.
2008-05-30 09:25:59
28.   silverwidow
Padres manager Bud Black says a crack in Chris Young's skull has to heal to ensure his brain doesn't get infected.

Just a sad situation.

2008-05-30 09:27:43
29.   fanerman
28 That's frightening! Gosh I hope he's okay.
2008-05-30 09:29:52
30.   sweepstakes
How about Billingsley's thighs? They could crush walnut shells.
2008-05-30 09:30:06
31.   D4P
Okay, Molly, we're waiting!

I guess she ordered the large cappuccino...

2008-05-30 09:37:20
32.   underdog
30 Good one.

28 Yikes. Was that from the Pujols line drive incident? I truly hope he heals up... makes baseball (and my hatred of the Padres) seem very trivial.

2008-05-30 09:38:10
33.   kinbote
Aggle flaggle klabble.
2008-05-30 09:41:09
34.   Johnson
Kuo's bat flip.
2008-05-30 09:49:33
35.   Eric Stephen
Kershaw had a game score of 60, the 13th best MLB debut in LA Dodger history. (Karl Spooner's game score was at least 93 and as high as 99 -- I'm not sure how many walks he had in his debut for Brooklyn, a 15 K 3-hit shutout in 1954)

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/VAnw

Of the 12 ahead of him, how did they fare in start number two?

1) Pedro Astacio - 87 game score in debut / 45 in start #2
2) Nick Willhite - 82/63
3) Doug Rau - 77/56
4) Eric Gagne - 75/41
5) Kaz Ishii - 72/70
6) Hiroki Kuroda - 71/41
7t) Hideo Nomo - 68/23
7t) Ramon Martinez - 68/68
9t) Shawn Hillegas - 65/59
9t) Rick Sutcliffe - not counting - debuted in 1976 and didn't start again for 3 years
11) Edwin Jackson - 65/61
12) Doyle Alexander - 63/58

The collective ERA of these debut starts was 0.89, with a WHIP of 0.78. The pitchers were 7-0, and the Dodgers went 9-2 in these starts (losing the Gagne & Nomo debuts). Average game score was 72.

In start number two, the ERA dipped to a still respectable 3.45 with a WHIP of 1.35. The pitchers in start two were 3-6 with a team record of 5-6. Average game score was 53.

2008-05-30 09:51:50
36.   cargill06
Regarding the Met's and they can't hit lefties from the least thread

2006- .254/.332./406 vs. LHP
.268/.335/.461 vs. RHP
2007- .290/.357/.454 vs. LHP
.269/.337/.423 vs. RHP
2008- .278/.354/.437 vs. LHP
.247/.327/.384 vs. RHP

seems to me they hit LHP better.

2008-05-30 09:53:59
37.   Bob Hendley
The Solution's gumption.
2008-05-30 09:54:02
38.   Jon Weisman
33 - Knuffle Bunny!
2008-05-30 09:54:44
39.   Jon Weisman
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7594

From Baseball Prospectus:

"Cody Ross had one of the worst Aprils you can imagine, hitting .146, 7-for-48, with just two walks and no homers. Ross has followed that dismal performance with an oddly great May. So far, Ross has hit nine home runs in the month, but has just three other hits, all singles. From May 10 to May 25, Ross went 5-for-24, with each of those five hits landing in the seats. Ross followed that stretch up by hitting three homers in two games against the Mets, becoming the first player to amass eight home runs in a span of nine hits since Adam Dunn did it in May of 2003. For the month, Ross has an Isolated Power figure of .587; for contrast, the higest ISO figure over the course of a full season is the .535 mark of Bonds in '01. Finally, since the start of 2007--when Ross hit .335 with 12 homers and a .653 SLG in 197 plate appearances--Ross has a .319 ISO, which is the highest for any player in that period with at least 300 plate appearances."

2008-05-30 09:55:41
40.   kinbote
38 After much thought, that's the only thing I wanted to say this morning.
2008-05-30 09:56:48
41.   regfairfield
39 We're good at giving away guys named Ross who have occassional flashes of greatness.
2008-05-30 09:56:59
42.   Eric Stephen
36
Good point.

The Mets are 36-22 in games started by LHP in 2007-2008.

They are 78-78 in games started by RHP.

2008-05-30 09:59:46
43.   s choir
I hope this doesn't incite a rule 5-violating debate, but I just wanted to interject with the news that Nate Silver of Baseball Prospectus has outed himself as "Poblano", the shadowy figure behind the brilliant demographic political analysis at www.fivethirtyeight.com.

Nate/Poblano has been the most accurate predictor of the primary race outcomes this election season, and he doesn't take a single poll--he bases his analysis on census data.

2008-05-30 10:01:12
44.   Eric Enders
Does 41 include Ross Porter?
2008-05-30 10:02:26
45.   regfairfield
44 I just realized it did about a minute before you made that comment.
2008-05-30 10:06:39
46.   Eric Stephen
35
By the way, Karl Spooner followed up his 3-hit 15 K shutout debut with a 4-hit 12 K shutout in start #2 (his game score was anywhere from 89 to 95 depending on his walks).

His game score total in his first two (and only) starts in 1954 was 188. That has to be the highest for the first two starts of one's career, and I would venture to guess it's one of the highest two-start stretches for anyone in history.

The highest two-start stretch I could find for Koufax was 181. Pedro had a 188 stretch in 1999.

2008-05-30 10:13:58
47.   Eric Enders
Jose DeLeon had a 263 in his first three games. That's going to be tough to match.
2008-05-30 10:17:05
48.   Eric Enders
Actually, ignore 47 . Have I mentioned I'm lousy at math?
2008-05-30 10:18:23
49.   Sam DC
43 Wow, that's pretty interesting.

On another "sorry if this is old news," have folks seen the blogger mock draft put together by Future Redbirds. http://mlbloggermockdraft.wordpress.com/

Pretty interesting, though not the most readable presentation.

Dodgers are on the clock now -- Jason Churchill of Prospect Insider has the pick.

Here is the Nat's guy discussing who he thought the Nationals would pick. http://tinyurl.com/6lbl54

The concept is to predict what you think each time will do in the real world, not what you think it ought to do.

2008-05-30 10:23:20
50.   regfairfield
49 Now I'm definately glad I declined the offer to participate.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-05-30 10:26:53
51.   dianagramr
0

Kim Ng

2008-05-30 10:32:32
52.   Eric Stephen
42
I should clarify that I meant the Mets were 36-22 in games started by LHP against them.
2008-05-30 10:40:26
53.   Bob Timmermann
*Morgan said that although Torre was criticized at the end of his managerial run with the Yankees, he deserves respect.

"When he came, they had 22 championships and when he left they had 26," Morgan said.*

When Bob Lemon started as manager of the Yankees, they had 21 championships and then they had 22 when he left (the first time).

When Ralph Houk started, the Yankees had 18 championships and then they had 20 when he left (for the first time).

2008-05-30 10:43:04
54.   dianagramr
53

Dear Mr. Morgan:
How many titles did the Mets, Braves and Cardinals have before/after Torre left?

(not dissing Torre's managerial ability, but the '96-'01 Yanks DID have some awesome talent)

2008-05-30 10:46:32
55.   D4P
54
I remember posting Torre's managerial records with the Mets, Braves, and Cards, around the time he was hired by the Dodgers.

They weren't pretty.

2008-05-30 10:51:54
56.   bhsportsguy
54 But really, do teams win without talent. Certainly, there are coaches and managers that have won with less talent then their competititon but I always think its unfair to throw out, well they should have won with those players argument.

How many baseball teams have won 3 or more World Series in a row? Two franchises.

The New York Yankees (Joe McCarthy, Casey Stengal and Joe Torre managing)
The Oakland A's (Dick Williams and Alvin Dark)

In the NBA, John Kundla, Red Auerbach and Phil Jackson have coached teams that have accomplished that feat.

2008-05-30 10:52:25
57.   Eric Stephen
Carlos Delgado, hitting .212/.246/.379 against LHP this season, sat out the last two games before the Dodger series as southpaws started against NY. Delgado has grumbled over this platoon development, but Willie Randolph stated Delgado would be in the lineup tonight against the lefty Kershaw.
2008-05-30 10:58:19
58.   Bob Timmermann
56
In Red Auerbach's mind, the Celtics won all those championships because they had great coaching. The Lakers only won because they had great players.

Because that Russell guy and that Cousy guy and (insert name of Hall of Famer here) guy were bums!

2008-05-30 11:15:44
59.   kinbote
http://tinyurl.com/5dwqxo

Rosenthal trying his best to make me stop following baseball altogether.

2008-05-30 11:16:50
60.   larry slimfast
logan white's methodology.
russell martin's tremendous patience.
the current roster's youth.
the 2009 roster's loss of dead weight.
joe torre's calm.
clayton kershaw's potential.
chad bills's right leg.
james loney's hands.
the team's fan written blogs.
2008-05-30 11:17:41
61.   Bob Hendley
35 - Speaking of debuts, the Dodgers purchased a 17 year old Mexican pitcher(aren't there child labor laws?), named Javier Solano from the Monterrey Sultanes. The last I heard he had done well in minor league camp and the thought was to send him up to the Loons, once the weather improved up there. Meanwhile he was to be in extended ST. I still don't see him on their roster, but don't know how to get info on what is happening (i.e., has the weather not improved or has his development slowed?) Any routine way to follow extended ST, or does one just have to wait for the odd comment from the media or management?
2008-05-30 11:18:29
62.   D4P
59
Good grief.

Before a Dodgers game earlier this season, Joe Torre asked outfielder Andre Ethier to state the most important thing he wished to accomplish that night.

"Hit a home run?" Ethier asked.

No, Andre.

"Get two hits?"

No again.

"How about to trying to win a game?" third base coach Larry Bowa interjected, with an expletive thrown in for good measure.

Welcome to the evolution of the Dodgers under Torre, the former Yankees manager who is making his return to New York this weekend against the Mets (MLB on Fox, Saturday, 3:55 p.m.).

"They all think, 'You put up good numbers, you get paid," Bowa says. "Joe's trying to convince these guys, 'If you win, you're going to get your money.'"

2008-05-30 11:20:33
63.   Ken Noe
54 55 Dodger fan Chuck Todd on MSNBC's "Morning Joe": "I thought we were hiring the American League Torre and not the National League Torre."
2008-05-30 11:22:36
64.   Jon Weisman
Myopia. Sure, the kids have something to learn. What kids don't? But is that really the story of the 2008 Dodgers?
2008-05-30 11:24:02
65.   Eric Stephen
I'm glad Mark Sweeney (I originally typed Mike) was able to get prominently quoted in that article before his decaying carcass is shipped home.
2008-05-30 11:26:24
66.   dianagramr
62
http://www.imsdb.com/transcripts/South-Park-Gnomes.html

CARTMAN
So what are you gonna do with all these underpants that you steal?

GNOME
Collecting underpants is just phase 1. Phase 1: collect underpants.

KYLE
Sooo, what's phase 2?

GNOME
Hey, what's phase 2?

GNOME 2
Phase 1: we collect underpants.

GNOME
Yeah yeah yeah, but. What about phase 2?

GNOME 2
Well, phase 3 is profit. Get it?

STAN
I don't get it.

GNOME 2
You see,
Phase 1: collect underpants.
Phase 2: ...
Phase 3: Profit.

CARTMAN
Oh, I get it.

STAN
No you don't, fatass!

KYLE
Do you guys know anything about corporations?

GNOME
You bet we do!

GNOME 2
Us gnomes are geniuses at corporations.

2008-05-30 11:26:48
67.   LogikReader
[all the posts]

Time to add more fuel to the fire. On ESPN Radio today, Peter Pasquerelli attributed the Dodger hitting woes to lack of production from the young hitters. "The young hitters need to start playing better."

Ok let's just see how much you're paying attention:

Last two weeks:

Ethier: .327 / .375 / .462
Martin: .320 / .370 / .360
Kemp: .293 / .408 / .341

Loney: .276 / .329 / .427
DeWitt: .227 / .292 / .386

I see Loney and DeWitt struggling, and the slg is awful for everybody, but that was still a pretty ignorant statement for Peter to make. I thought it had more to do with having three automatic outs in the lineup.

2008-05-30 11:27:30
68.   williamnyy23
62 Interesting exchange, but if the next question was what could Andre Ethier do to help the Dodgers win a [insert Bowa expletive here] game, two very good answers would be "hit a homerun" and "get two hits".
2008-05-30 11:28:04
69.   LogikReader
67

Heck, not even Loney.

2008-05-30 11:28:07
70.   D4P
I can't remember if I've said this before, but it seems to me that one difference between "new stats thinkers" and "traditionalists" stems from their beliefs about winning.

For new stats thinkers, winning is simply the result of scoring more runs than the opposition. Players are supposed to do things that help score runs for their team and prevent runs from being scored by the other team.

For traditionalists, winning is a thing in itself that transcends runs scored/prevented. Players can be winners in a sense that has little/nothing to do with runs. Players can either know how to win or not, independent of their runs-related performance. In fact, some kinds of run-supporting activities might even be thought to be harmful (or at least neutral) with respect to winning. Players aren't supposed to do things like hit HRs, strike opposing hitters out, etc.: players are supposed to "win".

2008-05-30 11:28:59
71.   underdog
59 A better bet would be to stop following Ken Rosenthal altogether.
2008-05-30 11:31:14
72.   underdog
67 - Peter, Peter... The Dodgers lack of hitting the past week has as much to do with: Furcal being absent (he made the offense "go" when he was around the first month); lack of clutch hits with RISP by everyone; Kent's suckitude; Pierre coming down to earth. Sheesh, do we have to re-live this "it's the kids" nonsense all over again?
2008-05-30 11:34:05
73.   regfairfield
I wonder if Maza counted as one of those young players?
2008-05-30 11:36:07
74.   adrian beltre
it really just drives me crazy that not only can rosenthal cite jeff kent and mark sweeney as his sources, but that so many of his peers consider them to be credible examples of what the young players should aspire to be. a career pinch-hitter and a second baseman with an attitude problem and the inability to see things as they really are are two main components of a world series contender?
2008-05-30 11:37:02
75.   regfairfield
72 There is some truth to it though. Except for Pierre we really haven't been running out any veterans and we've scored 12 runs in the last seven games. It's the young players fault because our lineup has been young guys+Pierre.
2008-05-30 11:37:22
76.   Ken Noe
Rosenthal entered Joe Morgan Territory a long time ago, but what most stands out to me in that piece is that Kent still wants to stir things up, this time with Sweeney as his Gonzo. I was afraid that a losing streak would lead to the resurrection of this nonsense.
2008-05-30 11:38:12
77.   bhsportsguy
72 But the kids are a big part of the story.

Five of the top 7 players with the most plate appearances have less than 2 years experience. Juan Pierre is pretty much Juan Pierre. Jeff Kent has had a bad May.

I know that the media has not done anything to stop this kids vs. veteran storyline but I think the point of the story is to say that you if you are Blake DeWitt or James Loney and a fly ball could give you the tying run. you have to approach the at bat that way. And I'm not saying they are not.

But it would not surprise me if this storyline continues on the two nationally televised games this weekend.

2008-05-30 11:40:26
78.   D4P
I will grant that it's ultimately unrealistic to expect these writers to check the stats to verify every single claim they make about stuff like "Team X is struggling because of their kids".

But is it too much to ask that they check one lousy time? I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that every time some quote has come out the past few years about how the kids are primarily responsible for the Dodgers' struggles, I've been able to spend 1-2 minutes looking at the stats only to find that the kids were performing no worse (and usually better) overall than the veterans.

Why can't "professional" writers do the same thing, at least some of the time?

2008-05-30 11:42:03
79.   Eric Stephen
We just have to put up with a few more days of the misrepresentation of the Dodgers because they're in NY. We get Joe Buck, Tim McCarver, and Rosenthal tomorrow, and Jon Miller & Joe Morgan Sunday to recycle these tired stories, before getting back to the everyday hatred of Plaschke & Simers, et al.
2008-05-30 11:43:36
80.   adrian beltre
78 - its really sad. one time i read a, la sportswriter's critique on the zito signing and, of all the reasons to be against it, he questioned zito's durability. i wrote him and told him about all of zito's 200-inning seasons and he merely said thanks, it was an oversight. its scary how much influence they have and how little regard some have for accuracy.
2008-05-30 11:46:23
81.   natepurcell
Has this Chris Withrow story been talked about yet?
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=1086

And...what has happened to Bryan Morris? He has vanished!

2008-05-30 11:46:54
82.   bhsportsguy
79 I think both the stories and the reaction to the stories on DT are a bit over the top.
2008-05-30 11:47:31
83.   Bob Timmermann
79
Plaschke & Simers won't be anywhere near the Dodgers until the end of June. The only time Simers will be dealing with the Dodgers will be the Vin Scully-John Wooden talk.

There's this team called the Lakers that's having a good year...

2008-05-30 11:48:33
84.   Eric Stephen
83
But my hatred for them will still exist every day! :)
2008-05-30 11:49:13
85.   D4P
I looked at the correlation between Player's Age and (1) BA, (2) OBP, (3) SLG, and (4) OPS) for the following Dodgers:

Andre Ethier
Andruw Jones
Blake DeWitt
Chin-lung Hu
Delwyn Young
Gary Bennett
James Loney
Jeff Kent
Juan Pierre
Luis Maza
Mark Sweeney
Matt Kemp
Nomar Garciaparra
Rafael Furcal
Russell Martin

I found a significant negative correlation between Age and BA, and Age and OBP. (Age is also negatively correlated with SLG and OPS, but neither correlation is significant. However, it's worth noting that the correlations are reasonably strong, and the sample size of 15 is really small).

In other words, up to this point, a Dodger's batting average goes down as his age goes up, and his on base percentage goes down as his age goes up.

2008-05-30 11:50:12
86.   Bob Timmermann
I think there have been plenty of Dodgers beat writers who have been harping on the failings of Andruw Jones. And Brad Penny. And Derek Lowe.

Simers has focused almost all of his faux-wrath on Jones. Plaschke complained about Jones' weight in spring training.

2008-05-30 11:51:29
87.   natepurcell
85

So what you're saying is that a players hitting skills deteriorate (!!!gasp!!) as they get older?

2008-05-30 11:52:31
88.   Bob Hendley
85 - Yep, Bowa was right, the kids are just playing for the numbers.
2008-05-30 11:53:01
89.   Ken Noe
"'Everyone is here to try to help you get better, and you need to trust us on that.' But one thing about trust -- you have to earn it. You can't just tell 'em, 'trust us.'"

Gee Joe, you probably shouldn't let Bowa and Kent stick it to them with a reporter either, if trust is what you want.

2008-05-30 11:53:13
90.   Eric Stephen
82
I normally don't care about stories like these, but it's just so incredibly frustrating to see the same lazy and tired cliches use by national media to explain the club's struggles.

I'm not too bent out of shape because I don't necessarily think the organization (outside of maybe Bowa) believes this tripe. This seems like Rosenthal had a story to tell, and used his relatively benign quotes to frame his piece how he wanted.

I do enjoy the comic potential of a 4-for-42 Mark Sweeney exclaiming, "we wish it would happen a little quicker." (and I realize I'm parsing his quote and possibly using it out of context)

2008-05-30 11:53:21
91.   fanerman
85 If I remember my stats class right, correlation ALWAYS means causation. I think you're onto something.
2008-05-30 11:55:32
92.   bhsportsguy
89 Phil Jackson calls his players weenies in the press. Ben Howland called out a college player about his conditioning (Kevin Love) to the media.
2008-05-30 11:56:26
93.   Disabled List
To be fair, I think the single biggest problem with the Dodgers' offense right now is the lack of power. And the kids deserve to take their lumps in that regard. Matt Kemp with only a .341? Loney and Martin have been underwhelming as well.

However, the power outage is a systemwide flaw, and is hardly the kids' fault exclusively.

2008-05-30 11:58:18
94.   D4P
91
You remember correctly. The part you might be forgetting is this:

"When two variables are correlated, that necessarily means that one of the variables caused the other. Determining which variable caused the other requires the researcher to decide which explanation best suits his/her pre-conceived agenda and objectives at the time. If, at a later juncture, the researcher finds it expedient to change his/her mind, s/he is free to do so."

2008-05-30 11:59:56
95.   fanerman
94 I know. I was just kidding.
2008-05-30 12:00:08
96.   D4P
Matt Kemp with only a .341?

Kemp's SLG is .441, which is still not very good, especially considering that he's batting over .300.

2008-05-30 12:00:47
97.   bhsportsguy
90 But if the bulk of the players playing on the team are younger players and the team is inconsistent, isn't it possible some of that can be attributed to those players.

Sure, Rosenthal could have prefaced the piece with the horrendous start by Jones and Furcal's untimely injury and Kent's slump but the fact remains that for the most part, Martin, Loney, Kemp, Ethier and DeWitt are playing everyday and with the injuries a clearly not ready Chin-Lung Hu has had to struggle to hit more than his weight.

Add to it the Dodger's history of over-hyoing their young players (and you could consider their unwillingness to deal them as part of that) and whatever happened last year and you get a story.

2008-05-30 12:02:06
98.   D4P
95
I know. So was I.
2008-05-30 12:02:41
99.   Disabled List
96 I was referencing the numbers for the last two weeks that LogikReader posted in 67 . Should have been clearer about that.
2008-05-30 12:04:30
100.   fanerman
98 Yeah. Don't know why I typed that second sentence.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-05-30 12:05:14
101.   Ken Noe
92 If that's what we want from Torre, fine, but at least let's stop the "healing the divided clubhouse" nonsense. Because if I'm Loney, I think I'd feel like Bowa just tore off the scab.
2008-05-30 12:05:18
102.   Jon Weisman
Was the Dodgers' starting lineup Sunday their youngest ever in Los Angeles?

30 Pierre
28 Maza
26 Ethier
25 Martin
24 Loney
23 Kemp
22 DeWitt
24 Hu
20 Kershaw

Total: 222
Average: 24.7

Maybe a September game had a younger group.

2008-05-30 12:06:23
103.   Greg Brock
So, an anonymous baseball blogger turns out to be a TV writer, and an anonymous political blogger turns out to be Nate Silver.

I wonder how many other people are pulling double duty as anonymous?

2008-05-30 12:06:37
104.   Marty
Well, whatever the reason, the kids have not been hitting much. I'm starting to worry about my trust in Loney, Kemp and Ethier.
2008-05-30 12:06:45
105.   caseybarker
66

Jeff Kent: Hooooww do I reach these keeedz?

South Park Thoughts.

2008-05-30 12:07:15
106.   Jon Weisman
97 - But BH, Rosenthal's story follows the pattern about making it all about character flaws. They're not analyzing the performances in any meaningful way.

No one here denies there's room for improvement. But it's the approach taken in the stories that's so simplistic.

If Ethier fails what essentially is a trick question, is that really news?

2008-05-30 12:08:55
107.   Jon Weisman
103 - You could be Mr. Chips.
2008-05-30 12:09:24
108.   D4P
I can understand someone like Kent not loving everyone around him saying "wazzup" and "shizzle" and "nizzle" or whatever.

But I don't understand why that should have any effect on how he hits, runs, fields, or throws. If anything, isn't "not allowing off-field stuff to affect on-field performance" a big part of what we're supposed to like about PVLs in the first place...?

2008-05-30 12:10:07
109.   Eric Enders
"Kemp's SLG is .441, which is still not very good"

The slugging percentage in MLB this year is .404 and for right fielders it's .433. Kemp's SLG may be "not very good" in terms of our expectations for him, but in terms of producing as a right fielder should produce, he's right on target.

Actually, since he's a center fielder now maybe he should be compared to the collective .406 SLG for MLB center fielders.

2008-05-30 12:10:23
110.   Greg Brock
107 Actually, they call me MISTER TIBBS!

Bell rang. Back to work :-(

2008-05-30 12:10:27
111.   Eric Stephen
102
Last Sept 29:

29 Pierre
29 Valdez
22 Kemp
23 Loney
24 Martin
25 Young
23 LaRoche
23 Hu
22 Billingsley

Total 220
Avg: 24.4

2008-05-30 12:11:21
112.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think Ethier knows what the fourth word ending in -gry is either.
2008-05-30 12:11:35
113.   sweepstakes
"He has more years as a player and manager (45) than they've been alive," says Jeff Kent.

Hey genius that's longer than you've been alive, too. It annoys me how people are always saying he plays the game the right way. I know Kent's 40, but he takes days off on the field. He'll jog to first on an obvius groundout. Last night that slap hit-- I think it was Endy Chavez-- hit that tapper that Kent failed to charge. That prolonged and inning and led to a Mets Rally.

2008-05-30 12:11:56
114.   Eric Enders
103 "I wonder how many other people are pulling double duty as anonymous?"

I'd like to take this moment to admit that I am actually Joe Klein.

2008-05-30 12:12:15
115.   JoeyP
Somehow Jeff Kent has mysteriously stayed out of the media's criticism.

Doenst the media hate Jeff Kent?

Why can they pick on him for reading motocross magazines, but leave him alone when he OPS'es .500 for a month?

2008-05-30 12:12:53
116.   Disabled List
103 I am Spartacus.
2008-05-30 12:13:40
117.   Eric Stephen
111
An even younger one six days prior, on 9/23:

29 Pierre
22 Abreu
22 Kemp
23 Loney
24 Martin
25 Ethier
23 LaRoche
23 Hu
22 Billingsley

Total 213
Avg: 23.7

2008-05-30 12:14:28
118.   Marty
I'm Ken Tremendous. Oh wait, that one's taken.
2008-05-30 12:15:23
119.   Disabled List
Actually, I'm Ned Colletti. You people are all on my list.
2008-05-30 12:15:26
120.   bhsportsguy
106 I understand that.
2008-05-30 12:16:22
121.   larry slimfast
62 70 It certainly is frustrating when one of the the two sides of this argument fails to realize that these two things (favorable individual stats and winning) are not mutually exclusive. It's annoying and possibly detrimental when either one of them takes a side and refuses to recognize the other's worth. Larry Bowa and Andre Ethier are both setting themselves up against a perfect opponent in this argument/situation and you won't get anywhere with that. There is no perfect opponent. The media is just highlighting (and exacerbating) the situation.

Larry Bowa should know better than to put that kind of pressure (implied 'winning or losing the game is on you, kid') on a player. Andre Ethier should understand that he can't hit a dinger or go 2 for 4 if he doesn't get the right pitches to hit and that a walk or three is just fine.

Hopefully Joe Torre is telling them both that one player can't win a game but if you set yourself up for success in each individual situation you are doing your job of helping the team win.

It's like that John Nash equilibrium theory or whatever. Each individual should do what is best for himself that is best for the team. That's not actually how that goes but it works well for this situation.

It's all talk. Ethier's fine. Bowa's a blowhard. And I've rambled on too long.

2008-05-30 12:17:59
122.   JoeyP
92--Howland's criticism is a alot more clear cut re: Love's conditioning. Thats something pretty clear to everyone.

It's when coaches criticize players for the intangibles like "knowing how to win", that has no place.

And if Phil Jackson called his team "weanies", then thats just as dumb as what Bowa/Torre have said. Phil's never won a championship without at least two hall of fame players in his starting lineup. If the Lakers win this year, maybe he can relieve that stigma (I doubt Pau's a hall of famer).

2008-05-30 12:19:21
123.   Eric Enders
Ethier's answer was, in fact, absolutely correct. The one thing he could have done that would be most likely to help the team win would be to hit a home run.

Larry Bowa: On Notice.

2008-05-30 12:20:42
124.   regfairfield
112 Bob, you stole my next post, I'm unhappy.
2008-05-30 12:21:03
125.   underdog
106 That's basically what I was trying to say earlier. There's no denying it's a teamwide slump and the young players are a big part of that.

However, to point at them directly and specify "young players" when frankly at this point most of the team is young in general, and whatever veterans there are have also not been pulling their weight, is specious at best. How about saying "The Dodgers as a team are not hitting well" rather than trying to create a story that points fingers at demographic on the team. That just leads to more division. No thanks. Been there, done that. I don't want to get bent out of shape about it, I guess it's just a bit of nervousness that we'll be going down that path again.

It's funny, too, though -- when I was watching one of the Dodgers-Cubs games this week on ESPN and you heard Chris Berman say the Dodger woes are exacerbated because of the absence of Furcal (which is totally true), Jones (huh?), Nomar (wha?), Kent being out (sort of true). So it's like, who's fault is it -- the veterans being out, because when they're in, they totally produce, which we know is false except for Furcal, or the young players who are undeniably going through growing pains but have also more often than not been the ones bailing the team out on offense this season when things were going better.

Anyway, as Eric S pointed out above, we'll have to hear that same refrain a couple more times this weekend in the nationally televised games, and what would cut down on that (because, to be fair, announcers have also been praising how much young talent the Dodgers have, so it's not totally imbalanced) is for the Dodgers to play better and win.

It's as simple as Jack Fimple!

2008-05-30 12:21:50
126.   bhsportsguy
122 Why is that a negative. Popavich won 2 with Duncan and Robinson, perhaps Parker or Ginobili will make it. The Rockets had two HOF when they won. The Pistons had great players.

In the NBA, you win with great players, no other sport can be dominated by having one or two great players.

2008-05-30 12:21:51
127.   underdog
Oh, and I'm actually outing myself now as Dame Judi Dench.
2008-05-30 12:22:13
128.   Eric Stephen
122
Before we dismiss Phil Jackson's coaching ability, the flip side is also true. Neither Jordan, Pippen, nor Kobe have won titles without Phil as their coach. And Shaq won once, but with another HOF coach. If you want to go down the Rodman HOF road (I'm not opposed to it), all his titles were with HOF coaches too (Daly, Jackson).

All I know is Rudy "don't ever underestimate the heart of a champion" T coached the Lakers in 2005 and it was a disaster. Phil came back and they won 45 games and gave the #1 Suns all they could handle in the first round.

2008-05-30 12:23:39
129.   JoeyP
Well, whatever the reason, the kids have not been hitting much. I'm starting to worry about my trust in Loney, Kemp and Ethier.

Kemp's fine as long as he stays in CF.
The other two should be upgraded through free agency if available.

2008-05-30 12:25:28
130.   Eric Stephen
128
I would also like to add that the Tim Thomas tying three in Game 6 from 2006 still burns me (I don't wake up screaming like when I think of the Vince Young 2006 Rose Bowl, but still). It robbed us of a postseason Laker-Clipper matchup!
2008-05-30 12:25:53
131.   bhsportsguy
Would it be fair to say that the D-Backs are not winning right now because Reynolds and Upton have been slumping for the last month or so?

Its a different sport but did Kobe Bryant become a better player this year because he got better at basketball or was it some characer adjustments and trust issues that he resolved. Statiscally, this is not his best year but if you watched him for the last month or so, there is no doubt that he is the best player in basketball.

2008-05-30 12:26:34
132.   Eric Enders
If James Loney were drowning, would JoeyP toss him a life preserver?
2008-05-30 12:27:26
133.   Fallout
55 D4P
I remember posting Torre's managerial records with the Mets, Braves, and Cards, around the time he was hired by the Dodgers.
They weren't pretty.

Good Grief.
Torre is not good enough for you?

Anytime the kids get criticized, even by Torre, you guys raise your backs. If he criticizes Jones you pile on.

2008-05-30 12:27:43
134.   underdog
It's funny, I'd forgotten about both Rudy Tomjanovich (very short era) and even Del Harris for awhile. It feels like it's always been Pat Riley and Phil Jackson, because they were there awhile and won championships. But Harris coached for quite some time. And who can ever forget the Randy Pfund Era? (Okay, I was just looking at Lakers' coaching history online.)
2008-05-30 12:29:40
135.   JoeyP
In the NBA, you win with great players,

Exactly.
Therefore the coaching aspect at the NBA level is largely overrated, and Phil Jackson doenst have some magic beans that make his players "know how to win". Therefore, Phil shouldnt criticize his players as "weanies" in the media. Thats bunk. Phil needs great players, more than the great players need Phil.

You could say the same thing for Joe Torre, even though basketball does require much more coaching that does baseball.

2008-05-30 12:30:35
136.   D4P
133
Not sure what you're getting at. We're supposed to believe Torre is a great manager worthy of $4 million a year because his Yankee teams won some championships. But the teams he managed before the Yankees weren't very good, which would appear to increase the likelihood that the Yankees won because of their players, not their manager.
2008-05-30 12:31:25
137.   Eric Enders
131 I know basketball's harder to quantify statistically, but still, "I don't care what the numbers say, Kobe's the greatest, I know because I watched him for the last month" doesn't strike me as a particularly defensible statement. At the very least, wouldn't you also have to watch all the games the other candidates played in the last month?

I don't have any opinion on this since I pay as much attention to the NBA as I do to Olympic Curling. It just seems like a funny thing to say.

2008-05-30 12:32:07
138.   madmac
OT, but thought this was pretty amazing.

http://tinyurl.com/6bqgds

2008-05-30 12:32:16
139.   larry slimfast
123 I disagree. The one thing (offensively) that Ethier could do that helps the team win is not make an out when batting. Ethier can't expect to be in a position to hit a home run.

It's all semantics... and K. Rosenthal just not getting it.

2008-05-30 12:33:16
140.   D4P
135
IMO, the thing that sets Phil Jackson apart from many other "great" coaches/managers is that he does things very differently from most other coaches in his profession (e.g. the Triangle offense, his use of timeouts, his use of Zen philosophy with his players, etc.).

Contrast that with Joe Torre, who (from what I can tell) doesn't do anything particularly innovative relative to other managers.

2008-05-30 12:34:12
141.   bhsportsguy
137 His numbers are fine (top 5 by most measuring methods) but basically, having watched a lot of NBA games over my lifetime, I can say that he is able to control a game like no other player right now.
2008-05-30 12:34:47
142.   JoeyP
131--I dont think Kobe's gotten "better". I think replacing Kwame, Smush with Gasol/Fisher has made all the difference.
Plus Sasha became better than useless this year.

Kobe is playing great considering there's many rumors swirling about him cheating on his wife Vanessa, with another Vanessa (ex-Laker girl, 18yrs old) who happens to look like a younger version of his wife. Strange...

2008-05-30 12:35:24
143.   Bob Timmermann
137
Kobe would be a good skip. I would hate to be down three in the last end knowing that Kobe had the hammer.
2008-05-30 12:35:44
144.   bcg60
129 - Completely disagree with you about Ethier and Loney. Ethier has raised his average from .283 to .306 or so in the last 2 weeks now that he's finally playing consistently. Don't know how that constitutes not hitting much and Loney is showing signs of coming around. They're both outstanding defensive players. I think they will both be allstars for many years to come the near future.
2008-05-30 12:36:22
145.   D4P
138
That reminds me: I've always thought it weird that television will show "native" people nude, but not "civilized" people.
2008-05-30 12:36:59
146.   bhsportsguy
142 A-Rod played well and they had pictures.

I think there is one website that has posted it and their attorney has said even if it is not true, they reserve the right to post it since Kobe has admitted one affair in the past.

2008-05-30 12:37:43
147.   MollyKnight
Here's some stuff I got yesterday from the game:

http://tinyurl.com/5xhrvk

2008-05-30 12:39:18
148.   Eric Stephen
147
Nice mainstream Minotaur reference!
2008-05-30 12:41:24
149.   madmac
145 when it's "native" it's just icky, when it's "civilized" it's sexual?
2008-05-30 12:41:34
150.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, if you multiply any integer by nine, the digits will add up to a multiple of nine, not nine.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-05-30 12:43:13
151.   regfairfield
150 But if you add the digits of the result together, you'll hit nine.
2008-05-30 12:43:55
152.   fanerman
Nine, nine, nine, nine, nifty number nine.
2008-05-30 12:44:16
153.   Bob Timmermann
I don't like these nines. I want them cast out.
2008-05-30 12:45:00
154.   adrian beltre
nice work, molly
2008-05-30 12:45:18
155.   Eric Enders
I wonder if Sweeney knows what four divided by 42 is.
2008-05-30 12:46:25
156.   D4P
I've never liked how X.9repeating is equal to X.
2008-05-30 12:46:41
157.   adrian beltre
sweeney is beginning to come off as a little millar/schilling-esque to me
2008-05-30 12:46:49
158.   SoSG Orel
147 Great piece, Molly! I loved it.
2008-05-30 12:47:19
159.   fanerman
equal to X+1?
2008-05-30 12:48:23
160.   bhsportsguy
148 Now if she had written Matt "Bison" Kemp and Blake "The Solution" DeWitt, she would have completed the DT Trifecta.

Nice story Molly and I have to believe there is more.

Just watch out for over-dressed player's wives.

2008-05-30 12:48:29
161.   fanerman
Thanks Molly! The Minotaur nickname is going mainstream. My roommate who thinks I'm a moron for calling him The Minotaur with my internet friends will be most displeased. Woohoo.
2008-05-30 12:49:38
162.   Reddog
There's an old Peruvian wise saying, "My uncle is sick, but the highway is green."
2008-05-30 12:51:38
163.   Fallout
140 D4P
LOL
2008-05-30 12:52:11
164.   Eric Stephen
155
Well, the is a nine in there. Maybe Sweeney is on to something.
2008-05-30 12:52:55
165.   D4P
equal to X+1?

Oops, yeah. That too.

2008-05-30 12:53:04
166.   Ken Noe
Thanks Molly. But clearly this "Nine" is a Dharma-like cell within the team: Pierre (9), Kuroda (18), Kemp (27), Ardoin (36), and Proctor (45). With the subtraction of Kershaw, a new 54 will be needed or something major will happen, probably involving Sweeney's career.
2008-05-30 12:53:55
167.   KG16
My contrarian streak is flaring up right now. Winning individual games really has very little to do with season or career stats... it is, to use a phrase everyone is familiar with around here, a sample size issue. A particular hitter is going to get anywhere between 3-6 plate appearances in an ordinary game. A guy going 4-5 in a particular game is going to tell us nothing about the kind of player he is long term; and without the context of the box score, it won't even tell us if it had any impact on the final score (4-5 with 4 singles to lead off innings in which the next three batters strike out will be useless).

Winning, ultimately, is about execution in a single moment, removed completely from every other plate appearance in a player's career - because, past performance has nothing to do with the player's current at bat. The object is to score more than the other team, it doesn't matter if you score one more run or a hundred more runs, and to do either of those things, you have to execute in a particular situation.

I've said before, tongue in cheek, that the only stat that matters is the final score; another way of looking at it is that the only true indicator of a team's success is the standings. That, I think, is what Bowa and Torre are getting at, though they are communicating it poorly. What they should be telling the players is something along the lines of, "Don't worry about your stat line. Focus on the game today, focus on each at bat, each pitch."

What bothers me, to a certain extent, is that Bowa (and Kent/Sweeney) seem to imply that the younger guys are more interested in their individual careers and getting paid when they are eligible for arbitration and/or free agency. That, quite frankly, should be on a player's mind; as one's career path should be on any person's mind. Arguing that a professional should not be interested in the things that define his career is absolutely stupid (that would be like saying I shouldn't care about whether or not I win cases as an attorney). The job of the coaches should be to put it in perspective - and again, I think Bowa is trying to do that but is communicating it terribly.

2008-05-30 12:55:58
168.   Jon Weisman
Nice, Molly. If only you had worked a Lost reference in there... :)
2008-05-30 12:57:45
169.   underdog
147 Nice work, Molly.

Plus, Bob T learned that the Bison was also watching women's softball yesterday, so they have that in common!

166 Well, the team's definitely looked "Lost" at the plate lately so...

2008-05-30 12:59:03
170.   Bob Timmermann
167
I hear you're all about having the motions showing up properly indented.
2008-05-30 13:00:48
171.   Bob Timmermann
169
I was surprised to find out that the winners in the WCWS World Series play again today, but the losers don't.

However, the losers play Saturday and the ones that win have to play a second game against the losers of today's games.

2008-05-30 13:02:35
172.   underdog
171 - I was surprised my g/f was annoyed when I said I was rooting for whichever team had the cutest starting 9. I immediately retracted.

That lengthy at bat really was something, I saw the highlights later.

2008-05-30 13:02:53
173.   KG16
170 - I keep trying to come up with a good come back, but I got nothing.
2008-05-30 13:03:42
174.   jasonungar07
I'm so sick of the dodgers. I wish I had the guts to break up with them. We have been together 25 years now, it's hard.
2008-05-30 13:05:00
175.   underdog
My boss wants to have our weekly phone meeting /check-in at 4pm this afternoon. Doesn't he realize that's when the Minotaur appears? How can I explain this to him? Sigh.
2008-05-30 13:06:14
176.   regfairfield
175 Who schedules a meeting at four on a Friday?
2008-05-30 13:06:17
177.   underdog
174 Maybe it's time you made an honest team out of them and proposed?
2008-05-30 13:07:08
178.   underdog
176 - My boss. (In fairness they're usually on Thursdays but he had some other stuff pressing on him this week and isn't free til this afternoon.) Sigh.
2008-05-30 13:08:01
179.   Jon Weisman
ITD lineup:

Pierre, LF
Kemp, CF
Kent, 2B
Loney, 1B
Martin, C
Ethier, RF
DeWitt, 3B
Maza, SS
Kershaw, P

2008-05-30 13:12:51
180.   Eric Enders
Woulda been nice to have a good defensive SS in there behind Kershaw.
2008-05-30 13:14:39
181.   fanerman
Maza/Kent is not inspiring up-the-middle.
2008-05-30 13:15:01
182.   Bob Timmermann
Texas Southern made the NCAA tournament in baseball despite a 16-32 record.

They are not hosting a regional.

2008-05-30 13:18:54
183.   KG16
179 - I can live with that line up, though when I talked about moving Kent out of the clean up spot, I wasn't really thinking of moving him up in the line up.

Does anyone think that Torre would actually try Kemp as the lead off man?

2008-05-30 13:24:04
184.   Eric Enders
Richard Linklater has made a college baseball documentary, just in time for the CWS:

"INNING BY INNING: A PORTRAIT OF A COACH is an intimate look inside the world of University of Texas baseball coach Augie Garrido, the winningest coach in NCAA Division I history in any sport. He is the winner of five National Championships (three at Cal State Fullerton and two at UT) and the only coach to win National Championships in four different decades and at two different schools. The film profiles this remarkable coach's career and unique approach to teaching the game with unprecedented access to his team meetings, practices, and conversations with players during games."

(Augie's boys are currently tied 1-1 in the fifth.)

2008-05-30 13:29:34
185.   larry slimfast
Just once, before the all-star break, I would like to see the following lineup.

1 Kemp CF
2 Furcal SS
3 Martin CA
4 Ethier RF
5 LaRoche 3B
6 Loney 1B
7 DeWitt 2B
8 Pitcher PI
9 Pierre LF

2008-05-30 13:34:51
186.   Eric Stephen
I think it was Stan Mikita, but that was one of the worst non-Ozzie 7th inning stretch performances in history in Chicago.
2008-05-30 13:35:56
187.   larry slimfast
183 wow, was slowly typing 185 in between handfuls of popcorn. i've been thinking kemp for leadoff ever since sorianno has been tearing it up for the cubs
2008-05-30 13:36:11
188.   Eric Stephen
186
Strike that, it was Bobby Hull as the greatest offender in Chicago.
2008-05-30 13:36:22
189.   Jon Weisman
183 - I don't think that will happen, but I've often thought he fits the profile of what Torre would want at leadoff in the absence of Furcal - speed, batting average and different from Pierre, some pop.
2008-05-30 13:37:26
190.   cargill06
just spit balling here, but how does a dunn for pierre and penny trade sound? i know the reds need another SP but they also just release patterson so i doubt they'd want JP, but i'm sure dusty would love to have him.
2008-05-30 13:40:43
191.   kinbote
It seems like yesterday that Kershaw pitched. We really need to limit his pitches and innings right now. It's early in the year, he's young, and we have a lot of pitching depth. It's far too soon for him to be assuming anything resembling a saviour role.
2008-05-30 13:43:34
192.   Eric Stephen
190
Dunn has a full no trade through June 15, and a partial no trade (he can list 10 teams) afterwards. Plus there's the fact that Ned would never want Dunn.
2008-05-30 13:44:08
193.   Bob Timmermann
177
I would wait until June 17.
2008-05-30 13:44:46
194.   Fallout
183 KG16

Maybe if: 1)Kemp doesn't start to hit more HRs
2)Pierre and Furcal are out of the line-up.

2008-05-30 13:45:58
195.   trainwreck
184
I take it when they mean winningest coach of all-time they mean by regular season record or something?

I think the recently retired Arkansas track and field coach had like 42 national titles and all kinds of crazy records.

2008-05-30 13:47:32
196.   cargill06
i maybe jumping the gun but our beloved rockies are in the process of blowing a 9-1 6th inning lead.
2008-05-30 13:48:08
197.   Eric Stephen
195
I took that to mean most regular season wins.
2008-05-30 13:48:45
198.   Eric Stephen
196
All thanks to Bobby Hull's awesome rendition of Take Me Out To The Ballgame.
2008-05-30 13:49:53
199.   Eric Stephen
10-9 Cubs in the 7th.
2008-05-30 13:50:25
200.   cargill06
it's now blown 10-9 cubbies
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-05-30 13:52:56
201.   delias man
I like Bison batting second. 6 hole does not suit him.
2008-05-30 13:57:58
202.   KG16
194 - Torre was the one to first put Soriano in the lead off spot, no? And did so when Soriano was already hitting 35+ homeruns.

I doubt Torre would lead off with Kemp (unless Furcal and Pierre are both out), but like Jon said, Kemp strikes me as a Torre-style lead off man.

2008-05-30 14:02:16
203.   KG16
190 - While the idea is tempting, I think it was foreclosed upon by the Jones signing. When (if?) Jones is healthy, we again have 4 above average outfielders for three spots. If Jones ends up on the shelf the entire season, it's a different story.

Also does Dunn have a clause in his contract that allows him to become a free agent if traded a la Gange?

2008-05-30 14:02:29
204.   cargill06
good outing today for marmol

1 ip, 0 hits, 0 walks, 3 k's, 10 pitches 9 for strikes.

he now has 52 k's in 35 IP, with a 1.54 ERA and .121 BAA

too bad james couldn't keep that ball fair.

2008-05-30 14:08:44
205.   Eric Stephen
203
Dunn will be a FA after the season anyway.
2008-05-30 14:13:20
206.   KG16
205 - well, then I am definitely not opposed if Jones is done for the year.
2008-05-30 14:13:51
207.   cargill06
205 that's why i think dunn maybe moved at some point, no?
2008-05-30 14:14:12
208.   Indiana Jon
Wow, I just read why Kershaw picked 22 for his number. That's a little disturbing.
2008-05-30 14:17:11
209.   underdog
I haven't been a fan of the "bring Dunn to LA" ideas, but I will say Pierre + Penny has it's merits. I'm still not ready to give up on Penny though; it's not his actual stuff, it's his command. He may need a tweak here and there and then be right back on it. Still, with all the other pitching the Dodgers have, and their undeniable need for more power... it's tempting. I'm still not a fan of Dunn's defense and he doesn't seem to do much else other than homer or strike out, but...
2008-05-30 14:18:40
210.   PHilldodger
201 Not to get all "scouty" on the group, but when is the last time Kemp has turned on a pitch on the inner half of the plate? I get the MLB package and have missed a few games the last week or so, but I can't remember the last time Kemp hit a ball hard to the left side of the field. And in the Cubs series Kemp saw numerous hanging sliders and fastballs down the middle that he either fouled off or was way ahead of.
I understand that they've been working hard with Kemp on taking balls to right field, but I fear in doing so Easler, Mattingly, et al have "coached out" his ability to turn on an inside pitch and hit it 430 feet to left field. It looks like Kemp's approach to every pitch is to block it to center or right field, and he's so strong that allows him to still put up decent numbers. Does anyone else notice this?
2008-05-30 14:19:54
211.   kinbote
204 Marmol is incredible. He's one of the few late-inning arms who compares favorably to Broxton. He's a future K-Rod to me.
2008-05-30 14:20:32
212.   Eric Stephen
208
I really, really liked Will Clark. Not as a person, mind you, but as a player. That swing was sweet! I even liked the scowl. The 1989 NLCS duel waged between Clark (.650/.682/1.200) and Mark Grace (.647/.682/1.118) was epic.
2008-05-30 14:21:28
213.   Jon Weisman
210 - Yeah, it's been a topic of conversation. Some have your concern; I and others have contended that long-term, Kemp's focus on going to right will pay off in an ability to hit to all fields.
2008-05-30 14:21:35
214.   kinbote
209 Et tu, underdog? Don't get dragged into the Dunn rumor abyss . . .
2008-05-30 14:21:48
215.   Eric Stephen
209
I'm still not a fan of Dunn's defense and he doesn't seem to do much else other than homer or strike out, but...

Other than the 100 walks a year and .382 OBP. (But I don't like his defense either)

2008-05-30 14:21:52
216.   KG16
210 - probably over compensation on the part of Kemp. Generally when an athlete is "learning" a new skill, he tends to focus too much on doing that particular skill. Sometimes it is to the detriment of his overall game; other times, not so much. My guess is that in the next couple of days/weeks, the coaches will say, "Ok, kid, you got the opposite field thing down, now work with what the pitcher gives you."

When that happens, expect to see balls hit 430 feet in every direction.

2008-05-30 14:23:47
217.   larry slimfast
In other news, Kemp sure does seem to be taking walk a lot more recently.
2008-05-30 14:26:40
218.   kinbote
We ended up picking Missouri Melville in that mock draft referenced earlier.
2008-05-30 14:28:57
219.   D4P
When that happens, expect to see balls hit 430 feet in every direction

I'm looking forward to seeing Kemp foul one straight back 430 feet.

2008-05-30 14:31:58
220.   cargill06
but think about it, if you work out a pierre penny for dunn deal, you live out 1 more year of mistakes with andruw jones than you're set with Dunn, Ethier, and Kemp in your OF for a long time.
2008-05-30 14:32:01
221.   kinbote
From Rotoworld:

J.D. Drew is out of the lineup for Friday's game with vertigo.

This is usually where someone jumps in saying what a serious ailment vertigo is and shouldn't be taken lightly . . .

2008-05-30 14:33:22
222.   kinbote
220 Assuming you extend Dunn.
2008-05-30 14:33:57
223.   nofatmike
209 "I'm still not a fan of Dunn's defense and he doesn't seem to do much else other than homer or strike out, but..."

I wouldn't mind seeing Loney in LF with Dunn taking over at first.

2008-05-30 14:34:50
224.   cargill06
true, i'm sure penny has a good share of value on the trade market, considering how inexpensive he'll be for 1 more year.

but there is no point talking much further about it, just something i was thinking of.

2008-05-30 14:36:59
225.   D4P
221
Vertigo is high on my list of fears.
2008-05-30 14:37:06
226.   nofatmike
221 "This is usually where someone jumps in saying what a serious ailment vertigo is and shouldn't be taken lightly . . ."

To which, someone responds, "Just ask Nick Esaky."

2008-05-30 14:37:11
227.   underdog
214 You're right! Must resist... must.... resist...

C'mon Dodgers, just start hitting, confarnit!

221 It's totally understandable, I mean Drew jumped into the water near the GG Bridge to save a blonde woman. He deserves a day off.

2008-05-30 14:39:16
228.   Jon Weisman
Eddiemania?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/varsitytimesinsider/2008/05/baseball-not-fe.html

2008-05-30 14:41:30
229.   Eric Enders
The only side effect of vertigo I'm aware of is that you may end up dating both blonde and redheaded versions of Kim Novak.
2008-05-30 14:43:09
230.   underdog
Yay! My meeting with boss will now happen in a few mins. Leaving plenty of time before game.

Now, just make it worth my while, oh Minotaur!

2008-05-30 14:43:56
231.   fiddlestick
Dusty Baker might be the kind of guy who'd like Juan Pierre, but since Krivsky's not in charge anymore, Jocketty has ditched Corey Patterson and brought up Bruce. New Sheriff and all that.
2008-05-30 14:44:24
232.   kinbote
227 I have only your best interests in mind. I, too, was tempted to weigh in on the trade but then resisted, because, after all, Dunn would fill a power void while enabling us to shed Pierre's {system crash}
2008-05-30 14:45:04
233.   Bob Timmermann
I've had vertigo. It's not pleasant. And I certainly wouldn't want to try to hit a baseball while suffering from it.
2008-05-30 14:48:29
234.   fiddlestick
I'd love to see Kemp hitting more bombs to left, but it looks like to me he's going to the plate with an understanding of how pitchers are going to try to get him out and looking for a pitch to drive in that mindset.

I'd be much more worried if he was rolling over balls to short and third 4 times a game rather than hitting balls to center and right when he's being consistently pitched low and away. He still has occasional AB's where it looks like he's already decided on the way to the box that he's going to hit the first 3 pitches he sees, but with nowhere near the frequency he did in previous years. To my eyes, he looks worlds different in terms of pitch recognition, approach, and the ability to lay off pitches that aren't strikes. Umpires have been giving pitchers the Glavine strike zone off the outside corner to him quite a bit by memory as well.

I think he's progressing quite well and that's not even taking into account his age and lack of baseball experience.

2008-05-30 14:53:28
235.   Daniel Zappala
221 I can confirm that vertigo renders you completely useless to do anything but lie down and close your eyes, much less play baseball. Unless you think seeing the world swirl around in circles might help you to hit better.
2008-05-30 14:53:40
236.   kinbote
233 If it's anything like a sunstroke, I don't want it either.
2008-05-30 14:55:19
237.   scareduck
231 - that's an interesting point. Since Krivsky was the one who hired Baker in the first place (and we all know what a CP-fetish Baker had while in Chicago), it makes you wonder how long Baker will last if the Reds continue scuffling.
2008-05-30 14:55:21
238.   Fallout
202 KG16
That's a good point.

167 KG16
I thought you were doing OK until the last paragraph. Torre, Bowa, and even or Sweeney want the kids to do well. They are not tearing into them but giving them a different way at looking at things. What kid doesn't need that? There are times in a ballgame, for example, when you have a runner on 2nd and no outs you need to advance him to 3rd. Other times in that situation you (when down by a few runs) are not going to give yourself up to advance the runner but go for a base hit. Things like that need to be taught and even drilled into their minds if they expect to be winners.

I wouldn't be too concerned about Bowa not communicating well but Kent...

2008-05-30 14:59:20
239.   fiddlestick
237 Or if he continues the Wood/Prior act with the future of the Reds' rotation.
2008-05-30 15:04:07
240.   Jacob L
Vertigo is high on my list of movies.

That's where you made your mistake. You shouldn't keep souvenirs from a killing, Madelyn. You shouldn't have been so ... so sentimental.

2008-05-30 15:05:20
241.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2008-05-30 15:05:40
242.   kinbote
The Reds were evidently deep in the Bedard bidding, dangling some combination of Bailey, Cueto, & Votto (I'm assuming Bruce was untouchable). That might why they traded Hamilton for Volquez in the first place. Hey, Red Thoughts is fun!
2008-05-30 15:06:37
243.   kinbote
Is it okay if I keep talking about the Reds on this thread? ;)
2008-05-30 15:10:34
244.   MollyKnight
Breaking news: Blake DeWitt taking ground balls at second base right now, for the first time this year.
2008-05-30 15:13:35
245.   BlueCrew Bruin
212 I must admit to all of that as well. Will Clark was one of my favorite players growing up...and I even {looks around shiftily} rooted for the Giants in that '89 NLCS. I've since been reformed and am now a new man. All the same, I await my banishment.
2008-05-30 16:11:10
246.   scareduck
244 - not really breaking news. The Dodgers announced that yesterday.

http://tinyurl.com/6rh936

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