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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Kemp Faces Suspension for Tussle
2008-06-03 22:35
by Jon Weisman

Dodgers outfielder Matt Kemp and Rockies catcher Yorvit Torrealba face short suspensions after a skirmish in the eighth inning that was born more of frustration than animosity.

In the top of the eighth, Torrealba got a close fastball near the chin. In the bottom of the eighth, with two out, Kemp struck out on a pitch in the dirt. The ball bounced so that Kemp was in Torrealba's path to the ball. Torrealba pursued the ball with maybe a little extra force in trying to push through Kemp, while Kemp's back foot kicked up against Torrealba's helmet. Kemp turned and shoved Torrealba and then stood facing him, and then Torrealba shoved Kemp with two hands into the throat. And then a bench-clearing wrestling match of almost no moment started, though in the moment you're always scared something catastrophic might occur. I was with Vin Scully in feeling that you just hate to see that happen, even if there was never really much unadulterated venom.

In interviews after the game, members of both squads seemed to feel little if any latent hostility, and Kemp himself was pretty much contrite.

"He kind of shoved me, and I shoved him back," he said. "It was a lot of frustration ... and it was stupid. Not a good decision on my part.

"It was dumb on both of our parts. ... It was frustration, no excuse to act like that."

It's impossible for the players not to be punished, but I would imagine it would be on the lighter side of brawl banishments. What Kemp did was less hysterical than how Larry Bowa acted when challenged earlier this year about being outside the third-base coaching box, but of course Bowa is not a starting player and therefore more expendable.

In Kemp's absence, whenever that comes, Delwyn Young, who had two doubles tonight as the Dodgers were being shut out on six hits and two walks, should get more playing time.

Brad Penny had a somewhat deceptive quality start: six innings with two runs allowed, but he ran up his pitch count early and ended up throwing 116. He also balked (for the first time since 2003, according to The Associated Press). Colorado had six hits and four walks. However, it's hard to blame this one on anyone but the offense. Dodger shortstops haven't had a hit since the Coolidge administration.

* * *

Eric Stults, 28, is having a fine season in Las Vegas. After a slow start, the lefty has a 3.64 ERA and 61 strikeouts in 71 2/3 innings. Since May 1, he has allowed 13 earned runs in 44 2/3 innings (2.62 ERA) with 42 strikeouts.

Comments (170)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-06-03 22:51:59
1.   Tripon
ESPN has photos of the fight.

2008-06-03 22:57:37
2.   Jon Weisman
1 - Gameday has video, if you follow the link in the last thread.
2008-06-03 22:58:59
3.   Bob Timmermann
I prefer the photos. It makes you think you're staying up late to see what happened in the Ali-Frazier fight.
2008-06-03 22:59:33
4.   gibsonhobbs88
Obviously frustration over slumps and things not going well-its going to happen. At least Kemp is owning up to it and it sounds like he will take his punishment without an appeal as long as its fair and equal to Torrealba. If Watson gives Kemp 8 days and Torrealba one as is Watson's anti-LA track record in the past indicates, then you will see an appeal.

The only thing consistent about the Dodger offense these days is their inconsistency!!! Enough said, Goodnight!!

2008-06-03 23:02:16
5.   sporky
From the AP recap:

>>Dodgers center fielder Matt Kemp struck out on a pitch in the dirt from Taylor Buchholz for the third out in the bottom of the eighth inning, and the ball rolled a few feet to the right of catcher Yorvit Torrealba, who accidentally made contact with Kemp from behind before picking up the ball and tagging him lightly in the chest.

The frustrated Kemp, who was 0-for-4 with two strikeouts and two groundouts, then shoved Torrealba -- who retaliated by shoving Kemp in the face with both hands. In no time, they were wrestling on the infield grass as both benches and bullpens emptied. Order was quickly restored without any further incidents. Kemp and Torrealba both were ejected.<<

2008-06-03 23:07:28
6.   LoneStar7
5 classic, but did it fail to mention that johnny damon was quick out of the dugout to protect kemp by throwing kevin millar of kemp's back?
2008-06-03 23:14:28
7.   Linkmeister
"Dodger shortstops haven't had a hit since the Coolidge administration."

No doubt taking their cue from Silent Cal.

2008-06-03 23:14:30
8.   ucladodger

LOL at accidentally made contact. That was about as non-accidental as it comes.

2008-06-03 23:16:10
9.   Bob Timmermann
The 100 Juan Pierre Jerseys bet will not have to be paid off!
2008-06-03 23:16:15
10.   LoneStar7
nevermind 6 you should do with most of my comments, please pass over it the attempted joke makes no sense considering I thought the AP wrap in 5 said clay buchholz..

I blame this critical reading error on gary bennett (credit: A. Shimmin)

2008-06-03 23:29:58
11.   Andrew Shimmin
9- Only 42% of precincts reporting, Bob--getting a little ahead of yourself, I'd say. Plus, Orange county's only got 11.1% of their votes in. Still a lot of time. Team Prop 98 may want to suspend its campaign, though. . .
2008-06-03 23:33:10
12.   Andrew Shimmin
I went for a walk and, so, missed the tussle, and had to catch up on the comments. I think Jon's right that Kemp misinterpreted the original contact, but I think he misinterpreted the push as a hard tag in the back. He thought he'd already been tagged, so when Torealba came at him again (to tag him for the first time), he thought he thought that was a completely unprovoked attack.

I also agree that it doesn't matter much.

2008-06-03 23:43:13
13.   Bob Timmermann
"I do not choose to hit for the Dodgers,"

Chin Lung Hu.

2008-06-03 23:48:31
14.   natepurcell


2008-06-03 23:51:17
15.   Andrew Shimmin
14- Don't get all Sporky-y on us. "I do not choose to run for President in 1928."

2008-06-03 23:53:01
16.   sporky
14 See 7 .
2008-06-03 23:54:00
17.   Andrew Shimmin
Uh-oh. Sporky's still here. I thought I was defaming her behind her back.
2008-06-03 23:54:55
18.   sporky
17 It's ok since I don't get it.
2008-06-03 23:57:07
19.   Andrew Shimmin
18- You took another slap at wikipedia in the last thread. I'm trying to stigmatize anti-wikipedia sentiment.
2008-06-03 23:59:51
20.   sporky
Surely you can't blame me for suspecting a website that says a 6 foot man wears a size 5.25 hat.
2008-06-04 00:02:20
21.   Andrew Shimmin
20- It's the final arbiter of all human knowledge!

Anyway, you've been warned. Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the wikipedia.... Our Amongst our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.

2008-06-04 00:02:37
22.   bigcpa
Take my tickets... please!
2008-06-04 00:10:34
23.   sporky
21 I'm actually watching a BBC comedy... just Blackadder, though.
2008-06-04 00:12:04
24.   sporky
This is the strangest thing I've seen in a while.

2008-06-04 00:25:54
25.   LoneStar7
23 which blackadder series?
2008-06-04 00:30:58
26.   nofatmike
Dodger shortstops haven't had a hit since the Coolidge administration.

Hey! My favorite president! :-)

2008-06-04 00:33:21
27.   LoneStar7
well for all who care, blackadder goes forth has got to be the funniest in my opinion at least.
2008-06-04 00:34:51
28.   sporky
I'm partial to Blackadder the Third.
2008-06-04 01:08:31
29.   Andrew Shimmin
A classmate of Marty's lost an election tonight.
2008-06-04 01:10:34
30.   Andrew Shimmin
Only about 700,000 votes away from Bob's having to buy 100 jerseys. Starting to look like it may not happen, though.
2008-06-04 01:17:08
31.   El Lay Dave
199 by Terry A from the last thread. We visited old friends in St. Louis and then headed south to Memphis via Arkansas, then across the great (and very green) state of Tennessee, visiting some of the wife's kin and eating a whole lot of biscuits and gravy, ultimately relaxing a week or so in the Great Smokeys. We were in Nashville briefly; isn't that sushirabbit territory?
2008-06-04 01:21:49
32.   Dodgers49
McDonald retires 17 in a row, but the BayBears hold on for the victory.

2008-06-04 01:26:30
33.   Dodgers49
Batting first pays dividends for May

2008-06-04 04:56:10
34.   das411
woah!! way to show a little Larry Bowa unprovoked anger there, Bison!
2008-06-04 05:03:29
35.   das411
Today's east coast fun fact:

Phillies who would lead the Dodgers in home runs -

21 - Chase Utley
15- Ryan Howard
14 - Pat Burrell
9 - Jayson Werth
8 - Pete Happy
6 - Chris Coste

maybe that'll get some coversation going with you Westies...

2008-06-04 05:16:59
36.   D4P
From Ned's Point of View:

Batting Average
Werth: .260
Pierre: .279

Werth: 34
Pierre: 48

Stolen Bases
Werth: 7
Pierre: 21

Runs Scored
Werth: 22
Pierre: 23

Advantage: Pierre

2008-06-04 05:57:54
37.   Sammy Maudlin
According to my research, Dodger shortstops have had 11,541 hits since the 1928 season.
2008-06-04 06:11:05
38.   D4P
Doesn't Jon look foolish...
2008-06-04 06:35:59
39.   Terry A
31 - Ah, nothing like a vacation in the heart of the Humidity Belt!

Yes, Sushirabbit is in Nashville. And in your brief drive through Arkansas, you were about an hour east of me. Although actually, I was in Memphis on Saturday, so who knows?

2008-06-04 06:50:50
40.   Daniel Zappala
What exactly was Bob's bet??
2008-06-04 06:54:03
41.   Sushirabbit
31,39 - Yeah, I'm in Nashville, and even though the bonus room was 77.7 degrees at 10:15 while I fell asleep to the Dodgers on Extra Innings, and I can barely walk across the bottom floor of my house due to strewn toys, anyone from DT is welcome to come visit awhile and catch a game if they are in town.

Actually, the Smokies are really Sushirabbit territory. I've spent alot of time in those mountains (and rivers). And I was in Knoxville visiting my Dad over Memorial day weekend. Glad you had a relaxing time!

2008-06-04 06:56:43
42.   D4P
the heart of the Humidity Belt

Speaking of which: high temperatures here in Durham from today through Tuesday are supposed to range from 95 to 99.

2008-06-04 07:00:11
43.   Bob Timmermann
"The hitting of most Dodger shortstops isn't hitting."
2008-06-04 07:05:12
44.   Ken Noe
7 That will come as a surprise to Bill Russell, lifetime .263 and better in his prime.

36 Really from Ned's point of view:

Pierre: fast, classic lead-off man, has ring.
Werth: Nope.

2008-06-04 07:06:13
45.   Sushirabbit
Ya know, last night on that first hit to Pierre, I was thinking, "gee, I know I'm a perennial Pierre picker, but he's looking better as outfielder." Then the wan one immediately had to go and erase his questionable benefit by getting picked off. Erase one run. Then his throw was not that great to the plate, despite Vin's protestations otherwise.

He's a fourth outfielder at best, and he's proven it time after time. And when I hear some lame talk of how hard he works, I press the mute or FFWD button.

2008-06-04 07:09:24
46.   Bob Timmermann
"There is no right for a Dodger shortstop to get a hit by anyone, at any time, anywhere."
2008-06-04 07:11:50
47.   D4P
"And the hits (from Dodger shortstops) just (don't) keep on coming."
2008-06-04 07:24:42
48.   Doctor
Pretty unimpressed with the Torre/Bowa era and they way they have this team playing and acting.... Shut out by the worst team in MLB, fight, move to 2 games < .500…. Always hard to tell who is to blame, but I definitely don't feel as though I can say Torre has done a "great job" with the squad. He is there I guess, and fills out the line up card, but I don't see any signs of amazing leadership or getting the most from players etc…..
2008-06-04 07:25:10
49.   D4P
Federer loses the first set to Gonzalez, 6-2.
2008-06-04 07:27:01
50.   D4P
He is there I guess, and fills out the line up card, but I don't see any signs of amazing leadership or getting the most from players

(DISCLAIMER: I say this not to defend Torre, but rather to offend the managerial position itself).

What are some examples of how Torre could show amazing leadership/get the most from players, and how could those things reasonably be expected to improve team performance?

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-06-04 07:40:27
51.   JoeyP
The Cubs are 16-2 vs the NL West this year.
2008-06-04 07:43:28
52.   old dodger fan
I just watched the replay of the Kemp incident last night at I would like to see some other camera views but it looked like Kemp pushed first. Then it turned into WWF night. It will be interesting to see the MLB response.
2008-06-04 07:46:43
53.   Doctor

Agree, but Kemp's push was to the chest (pad) not the throat.... but either ways it was stupid and it was good to see him say so.

2008-06-04 07:49:34
54.   Jon Weisman
52 - Read (or reread) my account up top.
2008-06-04 07:50:20
55.   Jon Weisman
In other words, Yorvit's push was first, but was arguably in the line of duty.
2008-06-04 07:59:54
56.   Doctor

The debate of whether players are people or number generators is seemingly boundless (and I can't generate the numbers to figure out what effect people have.)

2008-06-04 08:03:14
57.   Bob Timmermann
I slept through the Kemp-Torrealba Affair. I will trust whatever the propaganda dictates.
2008-06-04 08:03:30
58.   D4P
Is your observation that Torre hasn't done a good job based on our record, or something else?
2008-06-04 08:23:15
59.   old dodger fan
54 Torrealba pursued the ball with maybe a little extra force in trying to push through Kemp

I really did read your post. My interpretation of your post before reading 55 was that Kemp over responded but Torrealba started it. After reading 55 I think I misunderstood what you were saying. From my view of the video 55 is correct.

2008-06-04 08:24:33
60.   Jon Weisman
59 - I understand. I meant no ill will.
2008-06-04 08:35:49
61.   twerp
35 See also Marlins, Florida, for Ross, Cody==

10HR. .202 BA, .270 OBP, .505 SLG.

Ross' 10 HR have come in 109 AB. Werth + Ross= 19 HR. The Dodgers' as a team= 39, last in the league. Next lowest? Giants, 43.

Ross' .202 BA probably would be the focus for some folks...

2008-06-04 08:36:12
62.   old dodger fan
60 No problem. I wasn't clear.
2008-06-04 08:43:46
63.   JoeyP
At least Sweeeney has 5 hits on the season.
Travis Denker now has 3 (including a homer).
2008-06-04 08:44:05
64.   Eric Stephen
Would it be a story at all if former MLB player Willie Aikens got released from prison if it weren't for his middle name?
2008-06-04 08:44:08
65.   regfairfield
61 How about the .270 on base?

Are we really upset we effectively traded Delwyn for Cody Ross? If Ross was still around, we wouldn't have room on the roster for Delwyn, since it's not like Cody Ross is going to stop you from signing Pierre or Jones.

2008-06-04 08:44:34
66.   Eric Stephen
I thought Denker's HR made him 4 for 13. Still less than Sweeney though.
2008-06-04 08:47:17
67.   D4P
Are we really upset we effectively traded Delwyn for Cody Ross?

No. We're upset that Ned pays the Pierre-Joneses huge amounts of money (over multiple years) for production less than or equal to that of the Werth-Rosses that Ned gives away for nothing, and who make no money by MLB standards.

2008-06-04 08:49:22
68.   Bob Timmermann
2008-06-04 08:51:07
69.   regfairfield
67 Pierre is a better player than Ross. Pierre can ocassionally get on base, plays very good defense for a corner guy and runs the bases better than anyone. All Ross does is hit home runs, at the expense of every other aspect of the game. He wouldn't make the team better.

Besides, Ned would just spend the Pierre money on something stupid anyway.

2008-06-04 08:51:20
70.   CodyS
Bill Hall wants a trade. He would be good to have, particularly if you hope that once you stop jerking him around he returns to his hitting form. But for the Dodgers, they would actually want to jerk him around and have him be a part-time guy at 3 or 4 positions. So it doesn't seem to be a fit.
2008-06-04 08:51:22
71.   JoeyP
I no longer believe OBP is 3 times more important than SLG'ing.

It's all about OPS---i.e OPS has a higher correlation to runs scored than does OBP by itself, or SLG by itself.

A competant GM doesnt sign Pierre in the first place, but having a guy with pop that can play CF (like Cody Ross) would have given the team even more reason to not sign Pierre.

And at the time of the deal (which is what you have to look at---so many other things down the line could have changed the roster)---> It was Jason Repko for Cody Ross.

Repko's doing nothing in Vegas.
Ross would lead the Dodgers in homers.

Not a good decision when it was made, and even worse now.

It walways looked like Ned was trying to purge the team of all the DePo players around that time. When you look at Pierre/Druw/Ethier, and compare their cost/production with Werth/Ross/Bradley---> looks really bad.

2008-06-04 08:53:30
72.   D4P
Pierre is a better player than Ross

Are there stats you can show me to back this up? Ross wins OPS and EQA...

2008-06-04 08:55:04
73.   regfairfield
71 And VORP, which weights on base more heavily, corelates better than OPS.

I agree the original Repko for Ross decision was a bad one, but Ross guy would have been gone by now anyway. (And probably Delwyn too, because Repko would be on the team now since he would be out of options).

2008-06-04 08:55:23
74.   regfairfield
72 Defense and base running do mean something.
2008-06-04 08:55:26
75.   D4P
I no longer believe OBP is 3 times more important than SLG'ing.

It's all about OPS---i.e OPS has a higher correlation to runs scored than does OBP by itself, or SLG by itself.

Your second statement doesn't address your first. In other words, the fact that OPS is a better predictor of runs than either OBP or SLG says nothing about the relative importance of OBP and SLG.

But maybe you knew that.

2008-06-04 08:56:36
76.   D4P
Defense and base running do mean something

Yes. EQA factors in SBs.

Are there good stats that factor in defense that show Pierre coming out on top, or are you just basing your conclusion on your own observations?

2008-06-04 08:57:15
77.   JoeyP
plays very good defense for a corner guy and runs the bases better than anyone

Pierre's arm is horrible, and Cody Ross was known as one of the best outfielders in the Dodgers organization when he was in it.

Ross's career line is .250/.320/.499

There's no way anybody should want Pierre over those numbers. No matter how good Pierre "runs the bases"....Seriously, regairfield is sounding like an old school scout these days ;).

Ross's .270 OBP this year is distorted because he's gotten very unlucky on BABIP. He's only K'ed 19 times in 109 ABs, yet he's only batting .202

2008-06-04 09:00:21
78.   ibleedbloo
I know the runner must stay in the baseline and "avoid" a defensive player making a play on a ball. In this situation, however, the play was behind Kemp, so, who has the right-of-way?

In other news, this "situation" makes me miss Milton Bradley…just a little.

2008-06-04 09:00:51
79.   regfairfield
76 It doesn't factor in things like taking the extra base, which is were Pierre excels. Eight of his 11 base running runs came from the little things.

The numbers show Pierre is about an average defender overall (slightly above average defense, dropped to average by his arm) which should convert to a strong corner outfielder. Ross doesn't really have enough play time for numbers to mean much, but scouting reports are pretty down on his ability to play center.

2008-06-04 09:07:13
80.   Neal Pollack
I am no Pierre supporter, but how can you say with a straight face that the Dodgers' problems exist, in part, because we don't have Cody Ross? Jayson Werth, on the other hand...
2008-06-04 09:07:19
81.   D4P
It's hard for me to believe that taking the extra base once in a while and average defense make up for huge OPS and EQA deficits, but if you think that, then I probably should too.
2008-06-04 09:07:51
82.   D4P
It's as if you've built a man from straw.
2008-06-04 09:08:30
83.   JoeyP
75---I agree that if you are comparing two players with the exact same OPS, that you'd want to have the player that has the higher OBP component. I'm not questioning that OBP is more important than SLG'ing, but I am questioning why anyone would choose a player that has a higher OBP, but a lower overall OPS, since we know OPS has a higher correlation to runs scored than either individual component.

Lets compare Cody Ross to Juan Pierre:

Cody Ross has a .270/.505/.775 OPS
Juan Pierre has a .351/.324/ .675 OPS.

I just cant see how it makes sense mathematically to choose Pierre if everyone agrees that OPS has a higher correlation to runs scored, than either individual component.

2008-06-04 09:13:20
84.   kinbote
Anyone know why Lucas May was batting leadoff yesterday for Jacksonville? If the answer involves Mark Bellhorn, I probably shouldn't have asked.
2008-06-04 09:15:28
85.   ibleedbloo
On this date, 18 years ago we saw Lucille I strike out 18 Braves. Today the next Dodger who has a chance to do that will be on the bump. I would guess he gets to half that number today. Anyone take the over?
2008-06-04 09:17:03
86.   D4P
I agree that if you are comparing two players with the exact same OPS, that you'd want to have the player that has the higher OBP component. I'm not questioning that OBP is more important than SLG'ing, but I am questioning why anyone would choose a player that has a higher OBP, but a lower overall OPS, since we know OPS has a higher correlation to runs scored than either individual component.

First of all, you need to recognize that the correlations observed between runs and OBP, SLG, and OPS are average correlations. In other words, while it may be true that "On average, when a player's OPS increases, so does the number of runs scored by his team", that doesn't mean that every single increase in OPS would necessarily increase runs scored, or that every single decrease in OPS would decrease runs. The relationship is an average, which doesn't necessarily apply to every case.

Second, if it's true that OBP is more important than SLG, than it's a pretty easy mathematical task to show that it's theoretically possible for a player with a higher OBP but lower OPS to have a more positive impact on runs scored than a player with a lower OBP but higher OPS.

2008-06-04 09:17:09
87.   underdog
84 - Don't know, but he had three hits so I guess it wasn't a terrible idea. Bellhorn was batting clean-up however, so the manager was 1-2 in cool decisions.
2008-06-04 09:17:44
88.   regfairfield
Actually looking at the numbers, I'm wrong about this. .250/.320/.500 from a centerfielder in a pitchers park is way more valuable than I thought. Pierre probably has a 20-25 run advantage in the other aspects of the game, but it doesn't make up the difference.
2008-06-04 09:18:27
89.   blue22
86 - If I'm doing my math correctly, Pierre's OPS with a 3x weighting towards OBP leads Ross's similarly weighted OPS 689 to 656.
2008-06-04 09:19:09
90.   underdog
85 I'm still calling him the Minotaur, so don't ask me to jinx him with a prediction. ;-)
2008-06-04 09:20:29
91.   D4P
I should clarify this:

it's a pretty easy mathematical task to show that it's theoretically possible for a player with a higher OBP but lower OPS to have a more positive impact on runs scored than a player with a lower OBP but higher OPS

I don't mean that ANY combination of higher OBP/lower OPS will trump lower OBP/higher OPS: I just mean that at least one combination (and probably, an infinite number, if you use enough decimal places) would do so.

2008-06-04 09:22:13
92.   regfairfield
I wonder if that 3x OBP number was only meant to apply at extreme pitchers parks like Oakland.
2008-06-04 09:22:21
93.   JoeyP
Under on Kershaw with 9ks.
He hasnt K'd 9 yet this season in a game. He's had 8ks twice.

He may be on a pitch count, so it could be difficult to have a high strikeout game.

2008-06-04 09:23:01
94.   kinbote
Mr. Praline: look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That parrot is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not 'alf an hour
ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein' tired and shagged out following a prolonged squawk.

Owner: Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for [Cody Ross].

Mr. Praline: PININ' for [Cody Ross]?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got 'im home?

2008-06-04 09:23:34
95.   underdog
BP's Kevin Goldstein picks his own mock draft today and has the Dodgers nabbing Casey Kelly with their pick.

>>It's no secret that the Dodgers are also very high on Hicks, who plays in their back yard. With Hicks likely already gone by the time they pick, there has been a lot of speculation about the Dodgers going the college closer route, and their scouting department has been seen in attendance of Texas Christian closer Andrew Cashner's late-season games. The problem is that kind of safety selection just doesn't fit with the Dodgers' philosophy. High-ceiling high school players do, and the best one on the board at this point could be two-way Florida prep star Casey Kelly, the son of a big leaguer who has first-round talent as an infielder and as a pitcher, while also having a scholarship to play quarterback at the University of Tennessee clouding his signability, a factor which contributes to people having him going anywhere from seventh to 30th
Selection: Casey Kelly, SS/RHP, Sarasota HS (FL)<<

I think they're looking at Hicks, Collier, Kelly, Martin and Friedrich, and it will be one of those guys, but not sure what order they prefer each of them.

2008-06-04 09:24:28
96.   underdog
94 Or conversely, "This Pierre wouldn't 'voom' if you put 4 million volts through 'im, he's bleedin' demised."
2008-06-04 09:25:51
97.   kinbote
85 I don't think he should be up right now, so I'm not making a guess.

Kuo, Stults, McDonald, & Meloan all should've been considered before Kershaw.

I'm finding I disagree with almost everything Colletti & Torre have done this year.

2008-06-04 09:26:12
98.   D4P
Along those lines, has anyone been able to recreate Depo's "OBP is 3X more important than SLG" factoid?

I've never been able to produce this result. In fact, I usually find that SLG is more important than OBP.

2008-06-04 09:28:47
99.   kinbote
96 My alternate was:

Dodger Thoughts: Where the elite meet to discuss fleet feet.

2008-06-04 09:29:10
100.   JoeyP
95--I'd be completely shocked if the Dodgers took a college closer.

Just doesnt seem a Logan White type pick at all.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-06-04 09:33:02
101.   kinbote
95 I assume we'd draft Kelly as a pitcher? Here's his scouting report:

2008-06-04 09:40:56
102.   schoffle

I couldn't agree more, why they would want to burn out an arbitration year on a 500 team when he wasn't even dominating at Jacksonville while we had so many other good options seems to be nothing more than a public relation move. What will they do if he struggles over his next 3 or 4 outing? Calling up Kershaw this year (aside from a possible September cup of coffee) seems to involve way too much downside risk, with very limited upside. Hopefully Kershaw and the Dodger will make me eat my words.

2008-06-04 09:42:53
103.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
The FSN crew last night predicted 3 games for Kemp/Torrelaba. Does anyone here see any different?

I assume Kemp appeals any forthcoming suspension, hoping to get it reduced to one game, but life has taught to never assume anything (see UnderSeige 2 with Steven Segal for a defination of assumptions)

2008-06-04 09:43:02
104.   old dodger fan
101 This might scare a few teams off: One of the better athletes in the class, whoever drafts Kelly will have to lure him from being a two-sport star at the University of Tennessee, where he is a quarterback recruit.
2008-06-04 09:46:41
105.   kinbote
104 Knowing Logan White, I'm guessing a pre-draft agreement would have to be in place.
2008-06-04 09:47:54
106.   silverwidow
102 why they would want to burn out an arbitration year on a 500 team when he wasn't even dominating at Jacksonville

First off, they're not burning an arbitration year. Kershaw will not become arb eligible until after the 2011 season. His ML debut was late enough that "Super Two" won't be a factor.

Secondly, how is a 2.28 ERA, 1.08 WHIP, and 3:1 K:BB ratio for a 20-year-old in Double-A not dominating?

2008-06-04 09:48:27
107.   underdog
103 - Sounds about right. An appeal might get it knocked down to a game each but Watson tends to not favor the Dodgers, like, ever so...

104 - Saw that, too. May be a turn off. Hard to know. I still think they'd prefer Collier if Hicks is gone. And maybe even Martin, too.

2008-06-04 09:49:46
108.   underdog
102 and 97 are trying to ruin my enjoyment of Kershaw's game today. I won't let it!
2008-06-04 09:55:08
109.   old dodger fan
I am not a Braves fan but this does make me sad. He seems like a good guy.

"John Smoltz has said that he'll be content if he never throws another pitch. Now, just two days after he attempted to alleviate stress on his shoulder with a move to the bullpen, the Braves veteran pitcher finds this to be a more defined possibility.
Smoltz will visit noted surgeon Dr. James Andrews on Tuesday in Birmingham, Ala., and it is likely he will then undergo season-ending surgery on his right shoulder.

"I can't compete against my body anymore," Smoltz said on Wednesday"

2008-06-04 09:56:33
110.   Eric Stephen
There is an outside chance Kershaw will be a Super Two. He was called up on May 24, so if he stays on the big club (or Major League DL) the rest of the year he accumulate 128 days of service time. This will put him on the low end of possibly qualifying as a Super Two in 2011.
2008-06-04 09:57:56
111.   kinbote
106 The better argument against it was that we didn't really need Kershaw yet, so calling him up "early" smacked of desperation. We are not pitching-starved or in need of a hero. We just need the right players playing and given opportunities to succeed.

As for today, I wish him the best and all that good stuff. Underdog, enjoy away!

2008-06-04 09:58:06
112.   LogikReader

Aw. I was always a big Smoltz fan. Now the only player linked to the great 90's teams is Chipper Jones.

2008-06-04 09:59:22
113.   Eric Stephen
Linked, as in continuously a Brave since the 1990s? Because otherwise Glavine would count.
2008-06-04 09:59:50
114.   underdog
I don't say this very often, but see the Juice blog -- new entry on Smoltz.
2008-06-04 10:00:10
115.   D4P
Now the only player linked to the great 90's teams is Chipper Jones

Maybe we could help them out with that...

2008-06-04 10:00:13
116.   Xeifrank
Just to get in on the Cody Ross v. Juan Pierre talk that I missed earlier. Here is what I have for the two players, based on 2008 WAR stats. I am not saying this is 100% correct, it's just what I'd like to add to the discussion. All units are in wins.

2008 WAR:

Cody Ross:
Offensive WAR: -0.95
Pos Adj: 1.5
Def Adj: 0.5
BaseRun Adj: -0.15
Total WAR (Playing time adjusted): 0.68

Juan Pierre:
Offensive WAR: -2.09
Pos Adj: 1.5
Def Adj: 0.2
BaseRun Adj: 0.75
Total WAR (Playing time adjusted): 0.27

I gave both players an equivalent playing time adjustment of 0.75. Defensive and base running adjustments are my best estimates.
vr, Xei

2008-06-04 10:04:17
117.   underdog
Yeah, but WAR, what is it good for? (Sorry)
2008-06-04 10:04:36
118.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
If Randy Johnson can come back from back surgery at 43, then I dont see why Smoltz cant come back either. Tough break for a big time gamer. Cooperstown will be waiting.
2008-06-04 10:04:48
119.   D4P
Guillen said on Tuesday that he and Williams had cleared the air, saying, "This one was the most uncomfortable situation I ever went through because it was a relationship, it was a friend ... When it's a friendship and he thinks I threw him under the bus, that hurt my feelings."

Poor Ozzie. Kenny hurt his feewings.

2008-06-04 10:07:04
120.   LogikReader

I keep forgetting that Glavine went back to the Braves. Yep, he should count too.

2008-06-04 10:07:19
121.   fanerman
I went to the Giants-Mets game last night.

highlight: Travis Denker's first major league home run.

lowlight: watching Omar Vizquel attempt to start a 6-3 double play and fail to record an out

That is all.

2008-06-04 10:07:49
122.   LogikReader

HAHhahahahahah! Seems like McCourt's kind of guy.

2008-06-04 10:08:58
123.   underdog
121 - Wasn't the Giants losing also a highlight, even if it was to the schMets?
2008-06-04 10:09:41
124.   Bluebleeder87
93 I'm thinking he'll K 7 or 9.
2008-06-04 10:10:28
125.   Doctor

If trying to win the division this year smacks of desperation then I hope they smack away...... if the kid is mature enough and were not over using him I have no problem with getting a boost from Kershaw. The "maybe next year" rally cry is getting really old for the Ds. At some point you need to go all in and try to have a winning season. Again, as long as they keep close tabs on his innings and psyche… Lots of young players helping teams in baseball this year.

2008-06-04 10:11:11
126.   fanerman
123 I went to the game with an obnoxious Mets fan friend. No matter who won, I lost.

Oh I forgot one other noteworthy item. Obnoxious Mets fan friend wore his Mets cap and is white. In the BART train, some random dude walked up to him and said, "You look like David Wright. That's kinda cool."

Obnoxious Mets fan friend, whose favorite player is David Wright, was glowing the rest of the way back home.

2008-06-04 10:14:05
127.   kinbote
Memo to the Rox: Please don't charge the mound while Kershaw's pitching--Thank you.
2008-06-04 10:17:32
128.   Eric Stephen
I believe the last time someone rushed a Texan was when Robin Ventura got humiliated by 67 year old Nolan Ryan! I shudder to think what would happen to poor Willy Taveras if he were to lock horns with the Minotaur.
2008-06-04 10:18:29
129.   fanerman
126 Oh I also made good use of the Grabowski Principle. In the top of the 4th, Zito gave up a hit to Pedro. I told my friends that within 10 pitches, Zito would implode.

Zito got out of the inning. After the first 2 guys reached base in the next inning, on pitch #9, Zito gave up a double to Carlos Beltran. LI = 2.35, WPA = .162. And that was that.

2008-06-04 10:19:02
130.   underdog
126 - Ah, that sucks. A lose-lose situation. You could still tease him a bit about the Mets being blown out the day before, though I guess there's not much teasing we Dodgers fans can do right now. Maybe they'll both lose tonight.

Okay, time to get some work done so I can take a Minotaur break later.

2008-06-04 10:19:05
131.   kinbote
In light of the latest "news" that the Red Sox are not considering signing Barry Bonds, I think The Onion should run a piece with the headline:

All 30 major league teams simultaneously announce via conference call that they are not interested in signing Barry Bonds.

Now about that hot Adam Dunn rumor . . .

2008-06-04 10:26:26
132.   schoffle

Hey I'll admit his numbers this year were more impressive than I thought but given that he has all of what 6 starts in 2008 in Jacksonville (no I won't count 1 innings starts) it certainly would qualify as a small sample size. Others have addressed the super two issue and while I certainly jumped the gun on assuming that he would lose an arbitration year you appear just as guilty in assuming that he won't. Anyway since you didn't give an option on his promotion to the bigs, should I assume that you are in agreement with the rest of my post?

2008-06-04 10:31:27
133.   old dodger fan
126 I don't care much for the Mets but I really like David Wright. If you are going to spend a ton of money on a player, he's a good choice.
2008-06-04 10:31:55
134.   Alex41592
Breaking News: Mark Hendrickson has struck out Mark Teixeira, no word yet on whether JoeyP is ready to concede. Developing story...
2008-06-04 10:32:17
135.   KG16
125 - I agree, if Kershaw gives the Dodgers a better chance to win every fifth day, we shouldn't worry about when he qualifies for arbitration... it's not like the Dodgers aren't going to be able to pay an absurd amount of money anyway.

Penny, Lowe, Kudura, Billingsly, Kershaw - that's a rotation I could live with; though I'm open to seeing Lowe (and/or Penny, if he doesn't improve) replaced by Kuo

2008-06-04 10:33:33
136.   Kevin Lewis

I was told during a softball practice that I look like Jeff Kent. I was not glowing.

I could just grow the mustache and complete the look

2008-06-04 10:35:04
137.   underdog
Penny, not Lowe, should go, and be replaced by Kuo, you know?

Then the rotation will have at least three K's in it, which seems to be more than Penny can give us per game these days.

Add the possibility of Schmidt in a month and that's a pretty good rotation.

Now we just need Raffy back and for the other guys to hit more consistently and the Dodgers will make us all feel less grumpy.

2008-06-04 10:37:44
138.   berkowit28
136 Has anyone mentioned seeing your likeness on their morning toast?
2008-06-04 10:39:05
139.   kinbote
Then the rotation will have at least three K's in it

Don't Guo there ;)

2008-06-04 10:40:28
140.   fanerman
136 Since I've never seen you before, I can only imagine you look exactly like Jeff Kent without a mustache.
2008-06-04 10:42:10
141.   regfairfield
134 Loney's EQA is five points higher than Pierre's.
2008-06-04 10:44:35
142.   Jon Weisman
Not directed at anyone in particular: I ask everyone to stop making a commenter's preference for Texeira an ongoing story. Rule 8 works both ways. If someone has anything new to add to the Loney-Texeira discussion, that's great. Otherwise, I think it's exhausted.
2008-06-04 10:45:26
143.   Jon Weisman
Today's lineup:

Pierre LF
Kemp CF
Ethier RF
Martin C
Loney 1B
DeWitt 3B
Maza 2B
Kershaw P

2008-06-04 10:46:58
144.   D4P
And with that, Jon secures a spot on The Obelisk.

Just kidding.

2008-06-04 10:48:15
145.   Eric Stephen
By FIP (via Hardball Times), Lowe is having his best season as a Dodger.

2005: 4.10
2006: 3.72
2007: 3.97
2008: 3.49

2008-06-04 10:48:52
146.   Sam DC
How dare Texeira strike out with two on. My kid just picked him for his fantasy team last night, and this is the gratitude he shows?
2008-06-04 10:49:37
147.   Eric Stephen
I was hoping Delwyn would see some time at 2B today with Kent sitting. Oh well.
2008-06-04 10:50:30
148.   D4P
By FIP (via Hardball Times), Lowe is having his best season as a Dodger

Interestingly enough, he also has his lowe-st G/F ratio as a Dodger. I would have guessed the opposite.

2008-06-04 10:53:39
149.   kinbote
143 Death, taxes, and Pierre leading off. Torre sure does like his clearly defined roles. The tail is wagging the dog so vigorously I fear permanent injury.
2008-06-04 10:54:13
150.   silverwidow
132 Anyway since you didn't give an option on his promotion to the bigs, should I assume that you are in agreement with the rest of my post?

Not totally in agreement. You mentioned that we had "so many options" but in reality, there were only two: Kuo and Park. If it were up to me, Kuo would be in the rotation, but Colletti and Torre already said they prefer him in the pen. So, if it comes down to Park or Kershaw, obviously I'll take my chances with our top prospect.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-06-04 10:57:32
151.   kinbote
147 Hurry up and learn 2b already, Andy. I wonder how long before he's major league ready for the position. Any guesses? I'm thinking Luis Maza has a pretty short leash (yes, I just wrote that sentence).
2008-06-04 11:02:20
152.   kinbote
I'm channeling my inner cargill and predicting a 6-2 loss today coupled with two roster moves after the game. One of them will not be Kenny Williams replacing Ned Colletti. Sorry for all the posts this morning. It's the last week of school and grades are in.
2008-06-04 11:04:06
153.   old dodger fan
I was looking at our minor league teams box scores desperatly hoping to see the name "Furcal" in one of them. No luck but did see the name "Bennett" at Inland Empire last night.
2008-06-04 11:05:21
154.   underdog
I know, alas, Maza and Hu at the bottom of the order is just a total black hole on offense. I do understand the need to want solid defense back there behind The Kid, and Young may be too worrisome at second for them, but I still hoped for the same. And yes I hope we see Andy soon, to play 2nd and 3rd as fill-in. It would have to be an improvement.

Furcal and LaRoche, when the former is ready, will be 1000% improvement over Hu and Maza. That day can't come soon enough.

2008-06-04 11:06:36
155.   sweepstakes
153-- Not such a big deal as long as they don't let G.B leave.
2008-06-04 11:07:33
156.   Eric Stephen
Of Hu and Maza, Hu will be the first one sent down, whether it is when Furcal comes back or LaRoche comes up. One of the two (or insert veteran middle infielder here) will be on the team all year since the club will need a backup SS.

I would imagine LaRoche's callup will be linked to Mark Sweeney's DFA. Vegas is off today, but LaRoche has played the last 4 games at 2B, so that's something. At least.

2008-06-04 11:09:24
157.   gibsonhobbs88
107 - I mentioned that back in post #4 - people just ignored it. Watson actually abhors anyone wearing anything LA. Remember how he basically allowed the Rangers to take head hunting target practice at the Angels 2 years ago and no punishments were handed down until Adam Kennedy charged the mound instigating a bench clearing brawl. A couple Angels had to fall on the sword as well and get suspended for any Rangers to get suspended when Padilla and one of their other pitchers got away with head hunting Guerrero and one other hitter and the Angels didn't retaliate and Watson sat on his hands and did nothing. Remember Scoscia's comments after the fight, "We did what MLB requested, leave it up to them to discipline, and they did nothing. This never would have happened had MLB acted in the first place." You better believe if the Texas pitchers went after the Yankee or Red Sox hitters the same way as the Angels, they would have suspended by Watson before they hit the showers in the clubhouse. But Watson basically was giving the Rangers pitchers "carte blanche" to take out as many Angel hitters as they could without impunity!! Watson is the "Stu(pid) Jackson" of MLB!!!!!
2008-06-04 11:12:21
158.   Kevin Lewis

I have the same stocky body type, so I could sort of see it if I have not shaved and have a Dodgers hat on. But I do smile a whole heck of a lot more.

2008-06-04 11:13:05
159.   fanerman
158 What's your stance on motorcycle magazines?
2008-06-04 11:15:30
160.   Bob Timmermann
Micah Owings batting 8th for the DBacks today.
2008-06-04 11:21:18
161.   Kevin Lewis
Never read one. The first and only time I rode a motorcycle the throttle stuck, and I had to choose a slide on the ground or a crash into the side of a building. I chose the slide.
2008-06-04 11:21:38
162.   kinbote
156 Just as long as they don't mess with Tiffee. He's here to stay, baby!
2008-06-04 11:27:39
163.   kinbote
Leadoff hitter [Weeks] on against Owings in the 1st.

Talk about coming back to earth. Arizona has been awful. In other matters baseball, Prince Fielder hits the prettiest homers in baseball. His opposite field shots are amazing to watch.

2008-06-04 11:30:08
164.   ToyCannon
In almost the same number of at bats, Maza is hitting 421 as a 2nd baseman and 095 as a SS.
I'm expecting a Kershaw special today. After watching what Francis can do with his arsenal watching the Kershaw/Kuo duo should be entertaining.
2008-06-04 11:30:11
165.   Alex41592
1-0 Brewers Bot 1 Mr. Kotter Kapler double
2008-06-04 11:32:41
166.   bhsportsguy
Kemp could delay accepting any suspension until he can schedule a hearing (which usually only takes place when a team is back in the NYC area) or do it at a time more convenient.

Last year, there were some complaints about Chris Young's suspension since he did it around the all-star break which meant he did not miss a start.

The next time the Dodgers are back east is August when they play in Philly and WDC.

2008-06-04 11:33:56
167.   bhsportsguy
166 Baseball suspensions are different than the NBA which are automatic and player's have no appeal rights.
2008-06-04 11:35:12
168.   Eric Stephen
I would imagine Park is the long man today, since Kuo threw 63 pitches on Sunday. Park hasn't pitched since Kershaw's last start, on Friday.
2008-06-04 11:36:08
169.   old dodger fan
Edwin Jackson vs Josh Beckett on ESPN today.
2008-06-04 11:40:35
170.   Jon Weisman

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