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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

2008-06-04 15:10
by Jon Weisman

The Dodgers have some of the best pitching in the National League, and arguably the very best relief pitching: second in relief ERA, first in relief strikeouts per inning.

But the offense is moribund. Since Rafael Furcal's injury, only Russell Martin has been anything special (and that's solely from an on-base percentage standpoint). Some players have been adequate, others profoundly the opposite. To get so little production from so many positions is simply too much for any team to overcome.

In 32 games since May 1, the Dodgers have drawn 89 walks (14 by Martin) and hit 22 home runs.

Things might look different soon, or maybe this will take a while. But there's no mystery right now. The Dodger offense rolls over too easily.

Comments (124)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-06-04 15:13:51
1.   dzzrtRatt
Are you on a losing streak? Is your pitching frail and ineffective? Is your manager on the hot seat with the tabloids counting down his demise? Are your hitters swinging and missing at pitches they used to hit into the gap? Is that what's troubling you, Bunky?

Well lace up your cleats and shine up your batting helmet! You're playing the Dodgers! When those boys from Los Angeles are on the field, losing streaks end and winning streaks continue. Mark Sweeney's on that team, Bunky, and if it's close in the late innings, they'll send him up to bat! A brighter day is coming. The sun is shining again and everybody's happy!

(bumped from the LAT zone on the previous thread)

2008-06-04 15:15:25
2.   Xeifrank
I agree with the person in the previous thread that the Dodgers should not be starting PMH all at the same time.
vr, Xei
2008-06-04 15:15:50
3.   JoeyP
Quick Fix:

DFA Sweeney
Call up LaRoche.

Pierre/Ethier platoon. Pierre vs Lefties.
DY/Kemp play everyday.
LaRoche plays 2nd when Kent gets a day off, and at 1st when there's a lefty on the mound.

Maza/Pierre/Hu cant end fast enough.

2008-06-04 15:17:00
4.   LogikReader
Things might look different soon

As far as I can tell Vin last told us of Furcal "No new news... Nothing to report."

Very depressing.

2008-06-04 15:17:05
5.   Xeifrank
3. You're hired!!! Report to work tomorrow.
vr, Xei
2008-06-04 15:18:50
6.   GMac In The 909
3 Why is that so difficult to see from the dugout/GM office?
2008-06-04 15:19:56
7.   blue22
So it was quite easy in the spring to see Pierre's ineptness at the plate (seemingly going 0-for-March), benching him in favor of the white-hot Ethier.

Now, I wonder, what does Joe make of Pierre's much more standard .284/.351/.324 line?

2008-06-04 15:22:31
8.   D4P
And yet, the Dodgers are 6th in the MLB in stolen bases.


2008-06-04 15:23:06
9.   bhsportsguy
Boy, when things click for the Dodgers, they click.

Dodgers average 7.1 runs when they win.
Dodgers give up 2.9 runs when they win.

Dodgers average 1.9 runs when they lose.
Dodgers give up 5.4 runs when they lose.

2008-06-04 15:24:35
10.   bhsportsguy
7 As Eric S. and I will both point out, that line is really deceiving because of Pierre's .900+ OPS against lefties (50 PA) this year.

Against the more likely to be faced righthanded pitcher, his OPS is less than .600

2008-06-04 15:26:29
11.   silverwidow
5 Don't hire him; he might DFA Loney.
2008-06-04 15:27:27
12.   bhsportsguy
3 Until they straigthen out SS (either Furcal or another backup), I don't know how they straighten this thing out.

As much as 3B was a question coming into this year, both Furcal and Abreu being out as SS has tied up this team for the present.

Now you can make the LaRoche move but that's really a once or twice a week issue.

2008-06-04 15:28:40
13.   Bob Timmermann
Esteban Loaiza is back with the White Sox.
2008-06-04 15:32:58
14.   bhsportsguy
9 And I know that is somewhat not far off what other teams do but in 31 losses, you are only scoring 58 runs, if you can just push across a few more runs, you might win a few of those.
2008-06-04 15:34:28
15.   blue22
10 - But he's underperforming against righties. Overall, he's pretty much right on his recent history (with a little more OBP, a little less SLG).

And I'd say he's getting more of a chance against lefties than Ethier seems to be getting recently.

2008-06-04 15:34:56
16.   D4P
More hilarity (and expletive-laced tirades) to ensue.
2008-06-04 15:35:10
17.   regfairfield
13 I don't think that'll go to well for him. He should have gone to Oakland or San Diego.

5 It's actually justified to leave LaRoche in AAA now that he's learning second.

2008-06-04 15:36:28
18.   D4P
The point has been made before that our team (which lacks power) has to rely on stringing hits (usually, singles) together to score runs.

Seems like we would expect that kind of offense to score runs inconsistently across games.

2008-06-04 15:37:31
19.   jujibee
13. How much money are we on the hook for?
2008-06-04 15:38:26
20.   regfairfield
19 All but about 200 thousand.
2008-06-04 15:39:21
21.   blue22
19 - the whole $7M, right? He did pass waivers, correct?
2008-06-04 15:40:28
22.   Xeifrank
Even though they are far behind in the NL West, the Rockies have made up some ground the past two days on all other NL West teams. The DBacks, Dodgers and Giants all lost their last two games, and the Padres may do the same later today. On the bright side, the Dodgers haven't lost any ground on the DBacks and Giants the last two days, as they are the closest two teams in the standings to us. vr, Xei
2008-06-04 15:41:40
23.   LogikReader

I think the question is WHY does our team lack power? I had Kemp pegged to hit at least 25 homers this year, and possibly more. I figured Loney was a lock for 20-25, and Ethier could have slapped 15 or so, along with Martin.

Maybe it was just wishful thinking.

2008-06-04 15:42:40
24.   jujibee
Every time I turn around it seems like Billy Beane just knows how to do things better than any other GM in baseball. He got us to nab him and pay his full pro-rated salary. When we try to turn him to some other pawn he clears waivers and we're stuck with the grunt of it again. Just ridiculous Ned, ridiculous. Chaulk it up to "another lesson learned"
2008-06-04 15:43:36
25.   regfairfield
23 Kemp's power was largely projection based. He's never hit more than 17 home runs in a season outside of Vero. Loney's up and down power numbers made his projection a total crap shoot. Martin and Ethier could still easily do that.
2008-06-04 15:44:08
26.   trainwreck
At least we get to watch Edwin Jackson on national television.
2008-06-04 15:44:14
27.   Gilberto Reyes
0 Jon, you have pretty much summed it all up. The offense has been horrendous since Furcal went down. And some great pitching efforts are now being wasted.
2008-06-04 15:44:36
28.   Sammy Maudlin
The Dodgers should give DeJesus a chance at shortstop until Furcal returns. He can actually bunt and draw walks.
2008-06-04 15:46:42
29.   blue22
25 - He seems to be taking more of an opposite field approach too, maybe to try to mitigate his penchant to hack away at the outside breaking ball.
2008-06-04 15:46:51
30.   jujibee
23. I've noticed a huge decline in power (Kemp especially) because these guys seem like they're trying to hit every single pitch opposite field. They are also going up to the plate very un-agressively compared to last year. If I were an opposing pitcher, I'd start everyone off with an inside corner fastball and quickly get the count 0-1 as the Dodger hitter would either take the pitch, or try and bend it to the opposite field off the thin of the bat. Since when is pulling a gift inside pitch a bad thing? (not that it hasn't happened this year at all, just a lot less frequently)
2008-06-04 15:47:34
31.   D4P
Chaulk it up to "another lesson learned"

More like "Opportunity to learn a lesson squandered."

I doubt Ned takes anything valuable from the experience.

2008-06-04 15:47:36
32.   Eric Stephen
How about those Lakers?!!!
2008-06-04 15:49:41
33.   blue22
30 - I view it as Kemp making an adjustment to a widely-known weakness. He's still hitting .312 with an 821 OPS. Not bad for someone still trying to figure out how to hit.
2008-06-04 15:50:05
34.   GMac In The 909
32 It's a good thing the Lakers are in the Finals or else -- with the way the Dodgers are playing -- Bret and Jemaine would have to talk me down off the roof.
2008-06-04 15:52:09
35.   regfairfield
Since Furcal went down:

Ethier: .301/.333/.434
Kemp: .289/.366/.389
Loney: .292/.333/.438
DeWitt: .292/.357/.483

None of these guys have been bad by any means, but these are our corner guys who should be carrying the offense, and only DeWitt is really performing.

2008-06-04 15:52:36
36.   Jon Weisman
I think there were reasonable expectations for the starting lineup to have decent OPS across the board. What happened is that one outfield position has been a season-long crisis, shortstop has been a crisis for now half the season to date, and first base and second base have underperformed expectations. (At third base, I think DeWitt is providing what people might have expected from LaRoche.)

I think the performance at those first three positions I mentioned (eliminating shortstop for the moment thanks to Furcal's hot start) has been bad beyond reasonable expectation.

2008-06-04 15:52:56
37.   jujibee
33. I agree, but when he was hitting the ball out of the park, he was pulling the ball aggressively. I don't mind the new approach, I just wish he could blend the 2 together.
2008-06-04 16:15:38
38.   jasonungar07
The only thing more pathetic than me being a Dodger fan is me being a LA King fan. Thank god for those 32 's
2008-06-04 16:17:42
39.   Louis in SF
While the post sums up the current Dodger situation correctly, it is very difficult to change things without knowing how much longer Furcal will be out for and if when JOnes comes back we can expect any real power production. If Jones comes back with some real pop, I think we have a good chance to make up some ground, if he doesn't I don't see much happening. Our other real power source which is more potential is Matt Kemp and he is still developing.
2008-06-04 16:30:41
40.   El Lay Dave
A Simple Desultory Philippic (Or How I Was Ned Colletti'd into Submission)

I been Denys Baez'd, Esteban Loaiza'ed.
I been Juan Pierre'd, McCarter'd.
I been Julio Lugoed and Tomkoed 'til I'm broke.
I been Andruw Jonesed, nearly cloned
from Sabean, cause I'm PVL-prone.
That's the bias I use, well, no joke!

(Slur rhymes as needed - folk rock!)

2008-06-04 16:32:38
41.   Johnny Nucleo
We're last in the league in HR's with 39, one behind Washington. Philly has 89.
2008-06-04 16:32:39
42.   Sammy Maudlin
Scott Elbert pitched a scoreless 8th inning and got the win for Jacksonville today.
2008-06-04 16:34:20
43.   berkowit28
9 I get the impression that when they play a poor pitcher, then several of them can hit, and string those singles and doubles into several runs. But when they play a good pitcher, no one but Furcal (and - to be fair - Kent on his good days) knows how to blast through. And since it takes a few of them in a row to actually add up to a run, you getr nothing: just a single hit once every two or three innings. They can't play top ML pitching. Is some of this inexperience, so they'll get better? Probably, but it's hard to know in advance who will really improve significantly.

Having them all at the same stage (roughly) is what makes things difficult. That's why the idea of having a few proven vets in there is not a bad one. The trouble is that Colletti couldn't find any real starts and just brought in decrepit vets who turn out to be so declining they're close to worthless. Some of that is bad luck, but most of it was bad judgment.

2008-06-04 16:41:27
44.   NoHoDodger

At least us Kings fans know deep in our hearts that we support a bunch of losers.

Dodger fans always believe that the Series ring is there to be had.

2008-06-04 16:49:14
45.   Jon Weisman
43 - Most major league pitching, by definition, isn't top major league pitching. But I think the Dodgers are struggling to string together baserunners against middling major league pitching, more than I would have thought.
2008-06-04 16:53:39
46.   StolenMonkey86
More hilarity (and expletive-laced tirades) to ensue

At first, I read that as "expletive-laced trades", which given our GM, would be appropriate.

Who do we get with our 15th round pick?

2008-06-04 16:54:26
47.   GMac In The 909
45 Cy Young could show up right now and blank that lineup tossed out there today.
2008-06-04 17:05:51
48.   CajunDodger
This is not really how you should look at things, but we had:

We had $49 million on the bench (Kent, Furcal, Jones, Garciaparra) today.

We currently have $63 million on the DL or being paid not to play for us (Loaiza, Schmidt, Furcal, Jones, Garciaparra).

I have not been commenting lately, but I can't even watch the games without getting irritated to the point where marriage counseling is needed.

In some ways this is more frustrating than the 2003 team...

2008-06-04 17:07:19
49.   CajunDodger
How many more lessons does Ned need? This is not on the job training...

Now I'm getting cranky.

2008-06-04 17:12:52
50.   Jim Hitchcock
48 Your wife gets mad at you when the Dodgers lose?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-06-04 17:14:08
51.   silverwidow
Edinson Volquez for Josh Hamilton

Cy Young for MVP?

Unbelievable trade.

2008-06-04 17:22:29
52.   sublime1
Betemit just went deep for the Yankees
2008-06-04 17:28:10
53.   Bob Timmermann
The longest streak of futility by Dodger shortstops before was 9/13-23/1997 by Greg Gagne and Juan Castro. There were 26 at bats straight without a hit by those two.

Nelson Liriano played short during that period but didn't bat.

My counting may have been off.

2008-06-04 17:29:22
54.   bhsportsguy
52 Betemit as a Yankee, 44 strikeouts, 6 walks, OPS less than .700 and batting average under .250.
2008-06-04 17:29:43
55.   regfairfield
Loaiza had the same or better FIP than the following:

Bronson Arroyo
Matt Cain
Ted Lilly
Jeff Francis
Johnny Cueto
Roy Oswalt
Barry Zito
Brett Myers
Oliver Perez

Loaiza wasn't amazing but he was better than about a third of the starters in the league so far. Getting him for seven million wasn't really a mistake, but getting him, then immediately losing patience was.

2008-06-04 17:31:35
56.   bhsportsguy
54 Again, not saying it was a good or bad deal, just pointing out that he has had a rough time in NY, hitting wise.
2008-06-04 17:33:29
57.   Bob Timmermann
Bizarro hitting streaks by Dodger shortstops.

2008-06-04 17:37:30
58.   Megaballs
Dejesus shoulda been up for a cup of coffee sometime in the last week. Unexpected things can happen from youth...see DeWitt.

And we'd whet his beak for 2009 2010 while giving us a taste.

I also check this DT daily just to see when Laroche finally gets his call.

2008-06-04 17:42:02
59.   twerp
Someone last thread was talking about Loney not being "clutch."

IIRC, he hit foul grand slams--barely foul--in back-to-back games in Chicago. If one or both had stayed fair, fans probably would still be talking about how clutch Loney is/was, since either or both would have been game-winners.

So not hitting in the clutch might be a bit strong. Being a few feet from two grand slams might be about right. He made outs after each foul grand slam, but still...

He's not playing as well as anticipated. But he and the rest of the team have about two-thirds of the season to turn it around.

2008-06-04 17:44:13
60.   regfairfield
58 Or he could stink, run out of options by 2011, and get traded for whatever middle reliever was good the year before.
2008-06-04 17:48:05
61.   CanuckDodger
Less than 24 hours from the Dodgers drafting the next waves of young talent in the organization and you are all moaning about the major league team. Priorities, people!:)
2008-06-04 17:49:17
62.   Megaballs


2008-06-04 17:50:38
63.   Megaballs
(60) A week or 10 days wouldn't burn service time...
2008-06-04 17:51:07
64.   fanerman
61 I'm not moaning. I'm busy voting for Russell Martin, Matt Kemp, et al for the all-star team.
2008-06-04 17:52:01
65.   regfairfield
63 Once you get put on the 40 man and play in the minors, you lose an option.
2008-06-04 17:53:56
66.   Megaballs
(65) I knew I was wrong right after I hit submit.
Back to lurking and Go Dodgers!
2008-06-04 18:16:21
67.   CajunDodger
I think it has to do with my throwing things at the TV when Andruw comes up to pinch hit in the 9th with two out and the tying run on base.

Or when Kershaw, Bills, Kuroda, etc., pitches their arm off only to get a single run of support.

2008-06-04 18:17:39
68.   CajunDodger
Way too tired to read old posts...

What is the consensus hope for our #15 pick for tomorrow?

2008-06-04 18:26:40
69.   Bob Timmermann
I think it's time to dust off the Stanley Cup and get ready to hand it to the Detroit guys tonight.
2008-06-04 18:30:07
70.   CanuckDodger
68 -- Well, I want Aaron Hicks and it sounds like the Dodgers do too, but Hicks probably won't be available at #15. If OF Zach Collier is still available I bet we take him, and that would be a great [pick.
2008-06-04 18:34:34
71.   CajunDodger
I know that we signed Withrow last year in part because Logan White liked him but also because he would sign for slot money.

Has there been any mumbling from the front office about paying for talent and not slot?

2008-06-04 18:39:57
72.   bhsportsguy
71 The Dodgers don't talk about it (actually few teams actually talk about it at all) but generally they have stayed at slot especially in the first round.

If Hochevar had signed at the reported offer, it would have set a record for the supplemmental 1st round at that time.

2008-06-04 18:57:19
73.   D4P
It is currently 87.8 degrees here, at roughly 9:57 PM.
2008-06-04 18:59:16
74.   Bob Timmermann
You have a thermometer with that degree of precision?
2008-06-04 19:04:10
75.   Vishal
you know, i think this dodger team maybe actually isn't that good after all.
2008-06-04 19:24:33
76.   Gen3Blue
I have been consistant in feeling that the D's offense would be poor in the first have, although I didn't anticipate there would be no veteran contribution. But I have been optimistic about the second half,
However this was partly based on the example of Grady's management. IIRC, by the last two months of the season Grady was batting JC at the bottom of the order and I assumed Torre would figure that out earlier.
Am I wrong---when did JP get moved away from the top of the order?
2008-06-04 19:27:08
77.   underdog
76 - There's no reason to assume Pierre won't eventually find his way down to the lower part of the order when Furcal comes back. Furcal is a lock to lead off. Torre had already shown he would bench Pierre at the beginning of the season (though that didn't last long) and also bat him low in the order when he did start, but when Jones stank up the joint and then Furcal got hurt that all changed. I don't see why it wouldn't then change again. Especially with a) Furcal coming back (we hope) and b) the offense so stagnant right now.
2008-06-04 19:27:40
78.   Gen3Blue
I hope with only one pick this year, the Dodgers don't let slot effect them, and fall further behind the Yanks and Detroit, who don't give a fig about slot.
2008-06-04 19:29:10
79.   underdog
Good lord, tomorrow is way too action packed for us sports fans. The baseball draft. The Lakers-Celtics Game 1. The Dodgers-Cubs game. Hoo boy.

And of course I would have to go to a movie screening tomorrow night so I'll be missing both games live.

But the draft! Now that should be fun.

I think Canuck is right, assuming Hicks is gone by 15, which he likely will be, Collier would be a fine pick. I hope it's one of those guys.

2008-06-04 19:30:41
80.   scareduck
79 - I'll be at Friday's game and Saturday's as well. Did anybody else get the 60% off e-mail for field box seats? Heckuva deal.
2008-06-04 19:32:24
81.   Gen3Blue
77 I hope you are right, but I don't underestimate his ability to insinuate himself into an old boy network. I have almost lost the faith that Torre instilled in me early on, but JP is the perfect marker to see if Torre has any commom sense.
2008-06-04 19:34:40
82.   bhsportsguy
78 Others with more insight may differ but just from what I am seeing, there isn't a lot of talented players that are going affected by signability issues and certainly none of the ones mentioned that the Dodgers are looking for.
2008-06-04 19:34:47
83.   scareduck
78 - if the Angels weren't so stupid about throwing away their first-round picks on dumb free agency signings (hello, Gary Matthews, Jr.), they'd be in that list, too. Jered Weaver ended up way over slot when he eventually signed (though you could argue he's been about worth what they're paying him, especially in 2007-8). Nick Adenhart was another such, and though the returns are still early, the fact that he's holding his own at 21 in AAA is pretty impressive. They really haven't had an out-of-slot steal like that since, IIRC.
2008-06-04 19:38:29
84.   natepurcell

They let Matt Harvey walk to UNC last year.

2008-06-04 19:39:26
85.   scareduck
84 - now that you mention it, I remember that. I have a feeling that was a case where they had a number in mind and the player had a bigger number in mind.
2008-06-04 19:40:19
86.   Gen3Blue
I admit I'm hoping for Hicks or Collier(sic)? Does slot matter much here?
2008-06-04 19:45:28
87.   Johnny Nucleo
69 At least this year it's going to go to a team with a decent fan base. Unlike the last three times.
2008-06-04 19:45:43
88.   CajunDodger
I don't think so, but I worry anyway. Logan has certainly done enough to prove how adept he is at finding players without giving Texeria or Porcello-type money.

I just want it to be over and see the list and agonize about guys I have never seen and how they will affect the team in 2012.

Wonderful misery...

2008-06-04 19:47:19
89.   Daniel Zappala
Since we're having prospect chat, how is Xavier Paul looking as a prospect these days?
2008-06-04 19:51:05
90.   D4P
You have a thermometer with that degree of precision?

No, but the internets (apparently) do.

2008-06-04 20:02:49
91.   CajunDodger
Not exactly setting the world on fire, but is OK with a .286/.434/.790 line.

He has had 4 multi hit games in his last six though. 18 extra base hits in almost 190 ABs won't do much to get you noticed. Looks like we won't be seeing him in LA any time soon.

2008-06-04 20:04:28
92.   underdog
89 - He seems a little forgotten but on the other hand, who knows, maybe he's surpassed Jason Repko on the OF depth chart. He still has that rep for having a great throwing arm. His numbers so far this year:

BA .287 OBP .354 SLG.441 OPS 795

Too many strike outs, not enough walks. Not doing terrible by any means but not wowing anyone...


Welp I'm off to try to get through the rest of these Dirty Harry movies (the new remastered box set), as much as I can take anyway. (The first one still holds up as great, the 2nd one's pretty decent, then... mostly not so hot.)

2008-06-04 20:05:18
93.   underdog
Or what Cajun said.

Wow, Jim Carrey was in the Dead Pool. I'd forgotten that. This oughta be good, i.e., bad.

2008-06-04 20:11:41
94.   Jon Weisman
"Pitching coach Rick Honeycutt said the organization remained conscious of Kershaw's workload, but that the plan of limiting him to 25 innings per month applied only in the minors."

2008-06-04 20:11:44
95.   bhsportsguy
Dodgers are young but D-Backs and Rays a little younger.

All three teams are fielding pretty young teams, based on their age at the beginning of the season and just looking at games started for the 8 position players, the D-Backs have an average age of 25.9, the Rays are 26.7 and the Dodgers are 27.3.

The difference is that the Dodgers have Kent while the D-Backs did not have a regular player over 32 and the Rays nave only 1 player that is 30 who is made 24 starts. Everyone else for the Rays is younger though 4 of their key starters are 26-29 years of age.

The D-Backs have a 5 players 25 and younger that are regulars while the Dodgers wanted to have 3 players that are 30 with Kent at age 40. The Dodgers have 4 regulars 25 and younger.

2008-06-04 20:12:20
96.   Jon Weisman
More from Dylan:

"The Dodgers want to limit Kershaw to 170 innings this season. Honeycutt said Kershaw could make up to 21 more starts, which, at about of six innings per start, could add up to somewhere around 120 innings. He has already pitched 58 innings this season, including 43 1/3 in double A."

2008-06-04 20:12:54
97.   Daniel Zappala
Thanks, guys.
2008-06-04 20:20:24
98.   natepurcell

These car insurance quotes I'm getting have been ridiculously high. Everyone hates the 22 yr old, single, male driver.

2008-06-04 20:24:52
99.   scareduck
91 - Not exactly setting the world on fire, but is OK with a .286/.434/.790 line.

If Paul actually possessed a .790 SLG, the Dodgers would have him manning the outfield in preference to Ethier. He's actually got a .286/.356/.434 line (you got his OPS for the last figure).

2008-06-04 20:28:04
100.   Daniel Zappala
I guess the good news is that Paul is only 23 and he's playing CF, so if he can get his OBP up he might have a chance to contribute.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-06-04 20:30:50
101.   das411
So....Detroit DID win that Cup after all, eh Bob?
2008-06-04 20:32:01
102.   NWdodger
Both Aaron Hicks and Zach Collier appear to be Kemp clones. My question is they sound like they close to as raw as Kemp was too. Is this a good use of the 15th pick? Or are they looking for someone who can contribute sooner as Logan suggests:

""What's different about this Draft," said White, assistant general manager for scouting, "is that now we're in position where we have to look, at No. 15, at going in a different direction than before and looking at need a little closer now."

2008-06-04 20:43:56
103.   CanuckDodger
102 -- I don't think that White's statement means that he is thinking of the big league team's short term needs. I think he means looking at the farm system, seeing where it is weak, and addressing that. Our farm is lacking in outfield prospects, and in general we are stronger on the pitching side than in the position player department.
2008-06-04 20:44:27
104.   kinbote
Someone in the previous thread touched on Denker. I was listening to KNBR today and Giants manager Bruce Bochy was raving about him. He talked about how he really liked Denker's set-up and approach at the plate. He mentioned Denker's consistent hard contact and power, and even stated that Denker's bat (coupled with his versatility at 2b & 3b) would afford him a big league career.

There was a time when I trusted that the prospects we eschewed were not quite major league quality [Ricardo Rodriguez, Chin-feng Chen, etc.], but that time has passed. We are in trouble with Colletti in charge and there's no way to sugarcoat it. We are a young high-payroll team with a marquee manager and huge fanbase. We also have a lot of injured veterans. In the strangest of plot-twists, I have now given up all hope of winning the wild card and am now solely focused on somehow overtaking Arizona. We are beyond lucky that they stink right now. Shame on us for not taking advantage.

2008-06-04 20:49:03
105.   kinbote
103 Canuck, if you don't mind, could you please explain a little about your thinking on Hicks as your top [realistic] pick? What is it exactly that sets him apart? I'm personally wishing on Collier, but there's a handful of names I'm content with if we land them.
2008-06-04 21:03:28
106.   CanuckDodger
105 -- If everything goes right for Collier, he will probably be a big league corner outfielder who hits for power (though how much is unclear) and a decent average. His arm is slightly below average, and while he can play CF now, scouts think that with his body type he is going to slow down by the time he reaches the majors.

Hicks probably has similiar potential with the bat, though less current power. The big difference between him and Collier is that scouts expect him to keep his speed and stay in CF, and he has a strong RF-type arm. Thus Hicks has true 5-tool potential, while Collier does not.

2008-06-04 21:07:53
107.   NWdodger
Any chance Hicks moves to pitcher? It sounds like some clubs prefer him there.
2008-06-04 21:12:00
108.   underdog
Is there any chance White thinks outside the box so much this year that he takes a college player first, or is that just a bit too "different"?
2008-06-04 21:12:23
109.   NWdodger
Does anyone think the rumor the Dodgers are looking at Casey Kelly has any legs?
2008-06-04 21:14:00
110.   kinbote
106 Thank you. BTW, I finally broke down and registered on U.S.S. Mariner after Bavasi's latest trick (from

On Wednesday afternoon, after Seattle's 20th loss in 27 games, Bavasi ordered each of the 25 players to sit at his locker to be held publicly accountable for his performance . . . Bavasi said he is basically stuck with the players he has, that no team wants to make a trade this far ahead of the July 31 trading deadline.

And, who constructed this horrible team?

2008-06-04 21:16:32
111.   CanuckDodger
107 -- I saw a very brief video clip of Hicks pitching and I liked what I saw. If Logan White wants him to pitch, and we get him, I will accept that, but I think we need a center field prospect more than another pitching prospect. Supposedly Hicks prefers playing the outfield and hitting to pitching, and it may not be a good idea to make a kid concentrate on the area of the game he is least interested in.
2008-06-04 21:21:20
112.   CanuckDodger
108 -- It could happen. There is that rumor about Andrew Cashner (a college reliever who throws really hard), but Goldstein at BP says he and others don't believe it.
2008-06-04 21:23:23
113.   NWdodger
I keep hearing Andrew Cashner's name come up for the 15th pick. Why would they be looking for a closer? It's seems they are pretty loaded with closer-types much less a college closer unless they see him moving into the rotation.
2008-06-04 21:25:54
114.   NWdodger
112-- Looks like you already addressed it. Any thoughts of him moving into the rotation? What are his secondary pitches like?
2008-06-04 21:32:25
115.   CanuckDodger
113 -- The Dodgers could be interested in converting Cashner back to a starter. Or, if what White said about need really does apply to the MLB team, the Dodgers could be thinking about what happens when Saito is gone, which may be right around the corner. Broxton becomes closer, but who fills Broxton's shoes as set-up man? Before the Dodgers turned Meloan back into a starter, I was thinking it would be Meloan. Troncoso and Brazoban aren't doing well in Vegas right now. Proctor has been a gas can this season. Wade probably doesn't throw hard enough for the Dodgers to trust him as a set-up guy.
2008-06-04 21:35:26
116.   CanuckDodger
114 -- Cashner has a slider that can be very effective, but it isn't consistent. Cashner was a starter in college before he was turned into a reliever, and I don't think he was that good. Anyway, if we really are interested in Cashner, my bet is that we see him as a set-up man for Broxton.
2008-06-04 21:36:04
117.   natepurcell

Maybe Scott Elbert.

2008-06-04 21:37:28
118.   CanuckDodger
If there are any more draft questions for me, I will try to reply to them later tonight. I have to step away from the computer for a while.
2008-06-04 21:42:56
119.   Reddog
I don't think its time to panic yet regarding our lack of offense. Looking on the bright side, in another month, Andruw Jones should be back.
2008-06-04 21:45:38
120.   NWdodger
I hope they don't convert Elbert to a reliever. How many 2-3 starter types do the Dodgers have? Lowe is gone next year with Penny to follow afterwards. Let's hope Colletti at least offers arbitration so the Dodgers can get a few picks.
2008-06-04 22:07:07
121.   NWdodger
An article on Scout is comparing Collier to Jay Bruce. Sign me up!

2008-06-04 22:11:39
122.   kinbote
117 Just from my BA readings, I think LH short man is most definitely in Elbert's future. Realistically, at this point even that would be a net win for us. No need to get greedy.
2008-06-04 22:26:46
123.   Jon Weisman
2008-06-04 22:39:10
124.   underdog
It would be lovely if the Dodgers would have any shot at Isaac Galloway in the 2nd round, but I'm sure he'll be gone in the supplemental easily.

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