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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Heir to Kirk Gibson
2008-06-10 22:30
by Jon Weisman

The way Russell Martin dashed home from second base on an infield single by Matt Kemp in the seventh inning tonight, you might have thought it was 1988 all over again. It was enough to just about make you believe.

Comments (248)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-06-10 22:33:32
1.   KG16
I always believe... the kid in me just won't let it go that anything is possible in sports.
2008-06-10 22:34:11
2.   Bob Timmermann
But Ken Rosenthal told me that Martin had "flattened out."
2008-06-10 22:36:29
3.   Erin
Rosenthal is obviously right about everything. After all, he thinks the Dodgers are missing Andruw Jones' "presence" in the lineup.
2008-06-10 22:36:43
4.   Jon Weisman
Open letter to Ken Rosenthal: What good are all your sources if they are telling you the moon is made of green cheese?
2008-06-10 22:43:07
5.   Eric Enders
0 I was thinking the same thing. Not only when he scored, but also a few moments earlier when he ran pell-mell to second base on a single.

And a heckuva slide, too.

2008-06-10 22:44:47
6.   scareduck
Somebody needs to find some eye black.
2008-06-10 22:46:48
7.   jasonungar07
put a C on that jersey of his.
2008-06-10 22:47:40
8.   Greg Brock
"It got me an RBI"

--Matt Kemp, sort of bumming me out right there.

2008-06-10 22:48:25
9.   jasonungar07


all year long, they looked to him to light the fire, and all year long, he answered the demands, until he was physically unable to start tonight——with two bad legs: The bad left hamstring, and the swollen right knee. And, with two out, you talk about a roll of the dice... this is it.

2008-06-10 22:48:32
10.   kirk gibson
Actually, it reminded me more of the movie Major League when Tom Berenger bunted home Willy Mays Hays from second.
2008-06-10 22:50:19
11.   Neal Pollack
It was an awesome play, that's for sure. I would be believing a lot more if the Dodgers were in first place, 10 games over .500. But Russell Martin is well on his way to being one of the greats.
2008-06-10 22:51:49
12.   Bob Hendley
Mongo throw gas.
2008-06-10 22:52:08
13.   KG16
7 - the only sport where uniforms should include a "C" is hockey.
2008-06-10 22:53:04
14.   El Lay Dave
I don't care about a "C" on a uniform; get Martin's signature on a contract extension, pronto!
2008-06-10 22:55:05
15.   Bob Timmermann
Perhaps we can compromise and just make Martin wear a special armband instead of a "C".
2008-06-10 22:55:09
16.   KG16
by the way, how is it that Martin is third in voting for the NL All Star Game? Not third overall, that I could understand, I mean third for catcher. Behind Soto and McCann? Really?
2008-06-10 22:55:43
17.   KG16
15 - only if he has to give it to another player when he comes out of the game.
2008-06-10 22:56:25
18.   Greg Brock
Time for another All Star campaign!
2008-06-10 22:57:13
19.   Bob Timmermann
But of course!
2008-06-10 22:57:32
20.   CanuckDodger
14 -- No way. Carlos Santana will be our starting catcher in 2011. Trade Russell Martin after 2010 for a mega talent.
2008-06-10 22:58:17
21.   Bob Hendley
A banzai headband instead of a batting helmet?
2008-06-10 22:59:22
22.   El Lay Dave
16 Soto: .278 .371 .527 129 OPS+ 10 HR
McCann: .306 .387 .579 153 12
Martin: 314 .422 .429 122 5

All-Star ballots dig the long ball.

2008-06-10 22:59:55
23.   Alex41592
DeWitt #2 Web Gem
2008-06-10 23:00:11
24.   KG16
20 - Carlos Santana? Isn't he like 68? And a musician?
2008-06-10 23:01:48
25.   Bob Hendley
24 - Oye como va!
2008-06-10 23:01:49
26.   KG16
22 - I would explain the Soto thing as an ESPN effect, they've been playing up the Cubs this year (the whole 100 years angle) almost as much as they've been playing up the Yank-Saux. Yours seems to work for McCann.
2008-06-10 23:01:58
27.   CanuckDodger
The 51's scored 13 runs in one inning tonight. Against the Padres' Triple A team.

And Greg Miller didn't walk anybody in two innings. Miller in his last 11 appearances:

14.2 IP, 10 H's, 1 ER, 9 BB's, 16 K's.

2008-06-10 23:02:57
28.   CanuckDodger
24 -- Yeah, so?
2008-06-10 23:12:35
29.   jasonungar07
Santana at the Greek was one of he best show I ever saw.
2008-06-10 23:14:17
30.   scareduck
8 - what on earth for?
2008-06-10 23:14:57
31.   LoneStar7
just watched a video highlight on titled "kershaw makes a great pickoff move to get kemp"
2008-06-10 23:19:48
32.   Greg Brock
30 It's a selfish thing to say when asked about another player's great performance.

I love Kemp, but not a great moment.

2008-06-10 23:26:28
33.   Eric Enders
30 , 32 Also because it demonstrates that he's bad at math. He got two RBI on that play.
2008-06-10 23:29:28
34.   underdog
Jason Repko was a home run shy of hitting for the cycle in that Vegas game tonight. Plus a stolen base.
2008-06-10 23:31:04
35.   Greg Brock
34 Plus, zero collateral damage. Which is nice.
2008-06-10 23:34:32
36.   berkowit28
32 I thought that if you play well for yourself in baseball, you automatically play well for the team. What's wrong with that?
2008-06-10 23:37:26
37.   Bob Timmermann
That's not what Larry Bowa thinks!
2008-06-10 23:38:33
38.   Greg Brock
36 Of course, but you don't need to be an I Guy about it. Talking about you're own numbers is bad. And when it's in response to a question about a teammate's great night, it's cringeworthy.

And some of you disagree. Whatever. Agree to disagree. Let's move on.

2008-06-10 23:43:36
39.   bablue
I'll stand by my approval of the Berroa trade. I think Berroa hit more line drives today than Hu hit in a month! ;)

Also, I think we have allowed the fewest runs in the NL now!!!! Now if we can just score...

Uh, well, Soto and McCann are both real good and have both had better seasons so far, what else can you say. Allstar voting comes too soon, I think.

Also, not to sound like a whiner, but in the game thread people complained about Kent swinging at the first pitch. When did swing at the first pitch become so horrible? I was much more annoyed when the Bison took a 83 mph fastball for a strike right down the middle in the first inning. Taking a pitch like that is a horrible baseball move. I don't care that Loney just walked, thats the best pitch you're gonna see. And what happens, he gets out. And just for the record:

Jeff Kent (when putting first pitch in play):

Career: .320/.330/.567 1502 PA
2007: .330/.320/.585 97 PA
2008: .314/.306/.543 36 PA (compare to rest of this years numbers)

And Career after 0-1 count: .263/.308/.444
3891 PA

Kemp Career:
First Pitch in Play (small sample size alert): .495/.489/.817 95 PA
After 0-1 Count: .257/.273/.378 337 PA

ANd the first pitch swings don't even include eventual walks. I think its a terribly f;awed idea that you shouldn't swing at the first pitch. You don't want to take an essy fastball to hit and get in an 0-1 count. Any decent hitter should swing if they get something good to hit. Now, obviously sometimes you'll do what Kent did and pop up, but you can't expect to get a hit everytime. But the real flaw is taking a great pitch to hit like Kemp did, and then swing at a breaking ball out of the zone.

And i don't mean this as a slam at Kemp but more not understanding what it seems like many DT'ers believe. Am I crazy for thinking this?

2008-06-10 23:44:15
40.   LoneStar7
32 hes a kid, and I think he'll grow up sooner than later...he just needs discipline and good management around him, I believe he has it, and should learn everything he can with all these good people around him.
2008-06-10 23:44:32
41.   underdog
35 - Not quite - actually he broke some lady's leg when trying to catch a foul ball in the stands and then later swung so hard at a pitch he lost control of the bat, hitting Angel Chavez, who was in the dugout, in the privates. Fortunately, no one else on the team was seriously injured however, so all told a successful day.
2008-06-10 23:47:44
42.   Jon Weisman
39 - I think the belief is that Kent would be the first guy to criticize a teammate for swinging at the first pitch in that situation.
2008-06-10 23:50:19
43.   Icaros
Reports that Repko took out 6 neighborhood mailboxes driving home from tonight's game are unconfirmed at this time.
2008-06-11 00:06:02
44.   Reddog
The Padres really look like a bad team this year. We need to beat up on the bad teams, so hopefully we can sweep this series.

Talking about second base, or shortstop, maybe Juan Pierre could learn to play one of those positions. We're apparently stuck with him for three more years. He's quick enough, and he hits more like a middle infielder than an outfielder, so why not have him fielding grounders and learning to play 2nd or short?

2008-06-11 00:06:59
45.   bablue

Even though he would do it? Ahh, I guess could see that. But he complains about everything, so who cares?

2008-06-11 00:09:32
46.   Icaros

Juan Pierre making left-handed throws from SS with that soft-serve ice cream arm?

2008-06-11 00:11:02
47.   Bob Timmermann
You should check which hand Juan Pierre throws with.
2008-06-11 00:25:36
48.   Eric Enders
Yeah, if Pierre were right-handed he likely would have been converted to a second baseman many years ago.
2008-06-11 00:26:31
49.   Andrew Shimmin
I object to the notion that Pierre at SS is that much crazier than Berroa at SS. Or Pierre in LF.
2008-06-11 00:26:34
50.   dodgerstang
I heard a rumor that Bill Hall of the Brewers is on the trading block. I don't know his game too well, but I think i remember him playing several positions over the past couple of years (3B and CF, I think). Can he play in the middle infield at all? Anyone think he's worth a look. I know he's got some pop, and I know Torre likes to have as much flexibility as possible with his lineup (Don Mattingly was talking about this in an interview yesterday with Mike and the Mad Dog on WFAN. It's on their site. He was also talking about how many of our young hitters aren't approaching their at-bats with a "game plan.") I think there is some validity to that, especially with Kemp. Anyway, we obviously need another option in the middle of the infield, because Furcal seems like he may be done for a while. Every report pushes it back further and further. It would be great to find someone with a little bit of power to play shortstop, even if he's a free swinger. That's why I was thinking maybe Hall. Can Brandon Inge play short? He's another guy Torre would love to have, I bet.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-06-11 00:27:41
51.   bablue

He's left handed.

2008-06-11 00:28:26
52.   Eric Stephen
I'm just happy I correctly charged a run to Bryan Corey and not Cla Meredith in the 7th inning in my scorebook.

The Martin mad dash for home was a spectacle to see.

Sorry for not meeting up with you, JJ42. I purposely ditched my phone as to avoid any Laker updates. I managed to only hear that the Celtics were up at some point in the 3rd quarter, so I was able to watch the entire 2nd half once I got home.

2008-06-11 00:29:54
53.   bablue

Both of those guys contracts are horrible. And both would be terrible at short. We don't really want either of those guys.

2008-06-11 00:31:11
54.   sporky
From the Times FYI article:

>>"[DeWitt]'s been amazing," LaRoche said. "You can't take a guy out of the lineup when he's hitting the way he is and playing defense the way he is. That's an obvious decision."<<

Granted, there's not much else he could of said in response to that question, but it was still neat of him to say so. If I remember correctly, he was pretty enthusiastically clapping (with a gimpy hand, no less) for Blake when he got his first few hits.

2008-06-11 00:35:13
55.   Bob Timmermann
The Tigers are giving Inge MORE playing time now as the season goes on. He's going to catch more since Pudge Rodriguez's expiration date seems to be drawing near. And Inge is also going to be playing more third base.
2008-06-11 00:35:30
56.   bablue
Just saw this. Cody Ross is an idiot.

2008-06-11 00:36:49
57.   JJ42
52 Not a problem - we'll meet up at another game. I did enjoy the Dodgers crowd taking over Petco after we took the lead.
2008-06-11 00:38:41
58.   Eric Stephen
Tonight was an especially Dodgeriffic crowd in San Diego. It was awesome. Announced attendance was 26,000 and change, but that's tickets sold. It didn't look like more than 20,000 in the park. The perfect recipe for a fan takeover.
2008-06-11 00:39:07
59.   fanerman
54 Mr. DeWitt and Mr. LaRoche have a gentleman's agreement involving sharing 2B and 3B when Mr. Kent retires.
2008-06-11 00:44:16
60.   Eric Enders
56 I kind of agree with Cody Ross, actually. The whole deal where fans hold home run balls for ransom has gotten a little out of hand.
2008-06-11 00:45:00
61.   Eric Stephen
My personal sports heroes tonight, in order:

1) Golden God
2) The Machine
3) Black Mamba
4) The Minotaur
5) Paul "Seal" Pierce

2008-06-11 00:46:54
62.   sporky
59 I hope they give the LaRoche/DeWitt-as-permanent-2B/3B-in-2009 idea serious consideration. One of the two should make a half-decent defensive 2B.
2008-06-11 00:47:00
63.   fanerman
2008-06-11 00:49:10
64.   Eric Stephen
When Pierce got stabbed several times in the face a few years back, I thought it would make him look like Seal. Seal got the last laugh however, thanks to Ms. Klum.
2008-06-11 00:50:38
65.   fanerman
64 Lol nice.
2008-06-11 00:51:56
66.   El Lay Dave
56 I blame the people who pay ridiculous amounts of money for such items for creating the marketplace and thus the frenzy. Why, Josh Wilker gets far more value out of torn up baseball cards than anyone but the Griffey family should get out of that ball.
2008-06-11 00:51:58
67.   bablue

Really? But its the fans ball, and I wouldn't give up say 50,000 dollars for a few autographed things. I certainly don't think the players has a right to the ball.


Yeah, me too. Except, it doesn't really look like Dewitt has a lot of range (IMO), and he's the smaller of the two, so would it work?

2008-06-11 00:56:29
68.   bablue

I wouldn't blame anyone, but I think its stupid of Ross to say the fan is greed for trying to get money out of it. Would he give up money on his next contract? Especially if this were what set him up for life? Is the fan supposed to give all that up for basically nothing? Doesn't make any sense to me.

2008-06-11 01:03:04
69.   El Lay Dave
68 Ross shouldn't say anything. Given that the marketplace exists, I don't blame someone for selling the ball. Who couldn't use an extra ${five-digit figure}?
2008-06-11 01:12:32
70.   bablue

Hmm... Juan Pierre unfortunately... and Jason Schmidt... Andruw Jones... Nomar... okay this is just too sad. I'm done...

2008-06-11 01:15:07
71.   sporky
70 You can't blame them for signing with the team that offered them the most money.
2008-06-11 02:01:27
72.   xaphor
The whole deal where fans hold home run balls for ransom has gotten a little out of hand.

Not unlike ballplayers holding their services for ransom, auctioning themselves off to the highest bidder. Turnabout is fair play in my books.

2008-06-11 02:41:59
73.   Michael D
I think Griffey has more than enough money that if he wants the ball badly enough he can make it happen. Then he can pay the guy in pennies.
2008-06-11 02:45:19
74.   Eric Enders
And why exactly should the player's salary have any bearing on whether the fan's actions are crass?

I fail to understand why so many ordinary fans are jealous of the money ballplayers make and feel the need to vilify them for it. Look these are entertainers, the money is very well-earned, and they're making what the market will bear. Get over it already. Oprah's studio audience doesn't boo and hiss because she makes tons more money than they do. People who go see Brad Pitt movies don't vilify him for his salary. But somehow with athletes this seems to be an acceptable attitude. I just don't get it.

Look, you don't like baseball players making big bucks? Then don't give them your money. Don't go to the games and don't watch them on TV and don't buy apparel or products they endorse. If you do any of those things, then it's your fault they make a lot of money.

2008-06-11 02:47:39
75.   Eric Enders
By the way, did anyone notice that at the exact same time we were rallying from behind against the Padres, Las Vegas was doing exactly the same thing against the Padres' AAA team. Down 8-0, they scored 13 in the sixth to go ahead.
2008-06-11 02:48:54
76.   Eric Enders
Greg Miller, the new super-dooper version, had another fine outing. It was his fourth walkless outing in his last six, and he's allowed only one run over his last 12+ innings.
2008-06-11 03:54:05
77.   JT Dutch
... I would ask to please not insult the 1988 Dodgers by comparing them to this current team.
2008-06-11 06:53:25
78.   StolenMonkey86
If I were to suggest the following, would I be kicking of a campaign, or hopping on the bandwagon?


2008-06-11 07:22:04
79.   JoeyP
I cant get over how amazing this Josh Hamilton story is.

Take a crack addict, have him be completely out of baseball for 3 years (2002-2005). From what I read, he was not even doing much baseball stuff when he was on crack. He was working in construction (and was even on an episode of flip that house)

He gets re-instated in 2006 and plays 15 gmaes in A ball.

He makes the Reds in 2007 (at age 26) and has a pretty good season.

This year, he's got 17hrs 70RBIS in only 64 games played.
I never really believed in players being a "natural", because I always thought even the pros need repetition or their skills will fade. But Josh Hamilton is really proving me wrong.

Can you imagine how good the Cubs would be if they hadnt dealt him to the Reds in the Rule V?

2008-06-11 07:22:50
80.   Penarol1916
Alex Eisenberg did a nice evaluation of Ethan Martin's swing in The Hardball Times today. Makes me not want to correct him and say that he has been drafted as a pitcher. Of course, I also want to see the analysis of his pitching motion.
2008-06-11 07:30:06
81.   Ken Noe
Undaunted, Rosenthal still yearns for Ned to trade Kemp. Other tidbits: Ned willing to move one of the kids in exchange for "veteran presence." Ned's already made deals in the past to trade youngsters but "backed out." Ned also offered Loaiza for Uribe but Williams held off, knowing that Ned would release him anyway and they could move Uribe to someone else. Wasn't one of Plaschke's raps against DePo that other GMs allegedly had no respect for him and thus played him?

2008-06-11 07:30:11
82.   regfairfield
79 I think it's like the A's did with the Rays that year. You can't actually trade your pick in the Rule V draft, but you can tell someone who to draft, then trade for him.
2008-06-11 07:37:45
83.   OhioBlues12
81 - I just read that piece and wished I hadn't. Why don't we see numerous articles about why the Rays should trade BJ Upton or the D-backs should trade Chris Young or the Marlins should trade Hanley Ramirez? I am so sick of Rosenthal.
2008-06-11 07:41:37
84.   Ken Noe
83 I actually thought about not posting it but then I saw the Rosenthal comments at the top and it seemed germane. Plus, I think the answer to your question is that the Rays and Snakes' GMs aren't feeding this stuff to the press. Ours clearly is.
2008-06-11 07:45:05
85.   overkill94
81 How do the Pirates have "pitching to spare"? Their current rotation sports guys with ERA's of 4.10, 4.55, 5.65, and 6.83 and they have nothing coming through the pipeline.

Then again, Neil Walker might be available since they drafted a stud 3B with their 1st round pick.

2008-06-11 07:50:26
86.   Ken Noe
85 There was that rumored deal last week, Bay and Snell for Ethier/Meloan/Wade that supposedly foundered when the Bucs also asked for LaRoche. I didn't take it seriously, but the way Rosenthal is thumping Bay and pitching, the Bucs might be willing to move Snell.
2008-06-11 07:57:05
87.   regfairfield
86 If Huntington as enlightened as he's supposed to be, there's no way he's taking a low upside outfielder and a couple of relievers for his best two players.
2008-06-11 08:01:15
88.   cargill06
86 if some type of deal like that were to happen, bay would have to start, andruw (when healthy) would have to start... no way they platoon kemp and pierre right?
2008-06-11 08:04:58
89.   Terry A
Rosenthal conveniently ignores that Colletti's track record indicates he's not going to get anything close to sufficient value for Kemp.

Like Jon said yesterday: the story here is Colletti, not Kemp or any other youngster.

2008-06-11 08:06:42
90.   Ken Noe
Again, I don't give any credence to that rumor other than the Bucs' conceivable willingness to move Snell and maybe Bay. I only mentioned it because we discussed it last week.
2008-06-11 08:17:13
91.   JoeyP
I just noticed one of my fantasy teams had Adrian Beltre on it, and figured he was doing alright since he had hit so many homers early.

Not so.

I've found a player that is struggling just about as much as Druw:

Beltre's splits:
April: .290/.400/.538 (93 Abs)
May: .189/.237/.387 (111 Abs)
June: .114/.179/.200 (4 for 35)

What started out as one of Beltre's best, may end up being his worst.

2008-06-11 08:17:27
92.   Jim Hitchcock
0 Don't have time to read all the posts, but it was Kirk Gibson revisited.

And the previous trip home? What's the sound of one hand slapping?

2008-06-11 08:18:33
93.   regfairfield
91 As of a couple weeks ago, Belte's PrOPS was something like .930. He's due for an upswing.
2008-06-11 08:20:14
94.   ToyCannon
The Dodgers may not be playing very well but they sure have been lucky. Saturday Night and last night they got quite a few breaks.
Martin hits a couple of seeing eye groundballs and is a hero, home team outfielders unable to judge flyballs.
Other then Kershaws command he looked very good. No hard hit balls that I remember other then the one Kent should have been able to make a play on. Usually he catches what he gets to when he leaves his feet, so that is disconcerting.
In watching the game on TV I noticed little play was given by Vin to the great slide by Martin when he scored from 2nd, and Loney got barely a mention on his great scoop after the awesome play by DeWitt.
2008-06-11 08:23:21
95.   cargill06
93 what's PrOPS?
2008-06-11 08:28:39
96.   Eric Stephen
I was keeping score at the game last night, and on the play in question (groundball single by Adrian Gonzalez) I added a not-so-cordial note to Jeff Kent on my scorecard.

That should have been at least one out if not two (although the DP may have been unlikely).

I also don't understand why Torre didn't double switch when he brought Broxton in. There's no excuse for having Broxton bat in the 8th. Even so, the Dodgers got lucky that it was a sacrifice situation anyway, but of course Broxton's bad bunt and Gonzalez's great play ended that. I thought Berroa went into 2B too weakly on that play. He should have taken out Khalil Greene rather than slide head first into the bag.

2008-06-11 08:30:26
97.   Bumsrap
Lets not forget to follow the money when looking at trade ideas such as Bay and Snell for Meloan, Wade, and Ethier. While the Pirates might want to shed $$, the Dodgers don't want to add $$.
2008-06-11 08:32:17
98.   thinkblue88

Predicted OPS

2008-06-11 08:33:30
99.   MollyKnight
He would have been the hair apparent, too, if he hadn't shaved his mustache.
2008-06-11 08:34:51
100.   Jon Weisman
96 - I think he was too enamored of DeWitt's defense to take him out and have LaRoche make his debut in that situation, especially since DeWitt had just made that great diving play.

Still, I would have made the double-switch.

If it were up to me, though, I might have brought Broxton in when Proctor was brought in. I think it's time for me to revive the Smokejumper campaign.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-06-11 08:41:25
101.   dzzrtRatt
Rosenthal's tripe is yet another dangerous indicator that Colletti equates winning, say, two playoff games this season as tantamount to job insurance. What will he do to win two playoff games?

I don't think he'd trade Kemp right now, however, until he knows whether Jones can play at something approaching his 2007 form. It's bad enough that he signed Jones as he was falling off a cliff, but to keep Jones while Kemp blossoms elsewhere would not only cost him his job in LA, it would make him unhirable.

Rosenthal's theory seems to be that if a team has a struggling offense, it should trade one of its few offensive forces for another offensive player with a lower ceiling who costs more.

2008-06-11 08:41:33
102.   Bumsrap
44 etc. If Pierre were asked to play short or second he would switch back to his natural throwing arm and stop experimenting with ambidextrousness.
2008-06-11 08:43:55
103.   kinbote
A belated standing ovation to Jon for his Two Words piece. Great stuff.
2008-06-11 08:44:51
104.   Penarol1916
97. I don't remember reading anything about the Dodgers not wanting to take on any more money. When was this written?
2008-06-11 08:49:53
105.   sporky
Rosenthal is the new Plaschke.
2008-06-11 08:53:23
106.   Ken Noe
105 The old Plaschke will return once the Lakers are done, and he too will be unhappy with the Dodgers. One assumes he's hearing the same spin from "team officials."
2008-06-11 08:57:11
107.   kinbote
A little help please. This article says that the Dodgers have 5 draftees playing in the CWS:

I count 6:

Anthony Delmonico--Florida St. SS
Allen St. Clair--Rice LHP
Jonathon Runnels--Rice LHP
Clayton Allison-Fresno St. RHP
Thomas Nurre--Miami 1B
Austin Yount--Stanford 3B

Where's my mistake?

2008-06-11 08:58:37
108.   Alex41592
Jon, Bob or anybody. I was only three during Gibson's MVP season. Are there any particular game(s) that stand out to you from 1988 where Gibson did what Martin did last night. You mentioned it for a reason, I'd just like to know the specifics.
2008-06-11 09:00:41
109.   Kevin Lewis
It is interesting that a lot of the comments on Trade Rumors talk about the guy taking the ball from another fan. Didn't that happen back when Bonds was chasing the Single Season HR record? I think the person went to court and got the ball back thanks to video and eye-witness evidence.
2008-06-11 09:03:32
110.   Eric Stephen
I was hoping anybody but Proctor came in during the 6th! I was hoping they would leave Kershaw in actually, although he was struggling with his command.
2008-06-11 09:05:24
111.   cargill06
108 i was 3 also during that season. the one play i always see highlights of is against the expos, he scored from 2nd on a past ball, i believe to win the game?
2008-06-11 09:06:40
112.   Eric Stephen
Alex, the game in question was against the Expos in August. Gibson scored from 2nd base on a wild pitch in the bottom of the 9th to give the Dodgers the 4-3 win.

2008-06-11 09:08:39
113.   Alex41592
111, 112 - Wow, that must have been quite the wild pitch. Thanks.
2008-06-11 09:09:28
114.   Eric Stephen
108 ,112
The call from Drysdale was awesome for that game too. It was something like:

"The ball gets by...Santovenia. Gibson's coming around third. HE'S GONNA KEEP ON COMING. The throw to the plate...HE SCORES!!!! DODGERS WIN!"

Also, Gibson and Martin had similar reactions immediately after scoring. The pop up after the slide and fist pump.

2008-06-11 09:10:13
115.   Eric Stephen
It was back in the days before the "bryanf" seats, when Dodger Stadium had a ton of foul ground.
2008-06-11 09:16:17
116.   Jim Hitchcock
115 And it was only on radio. Best call Drysdale ever made.
2008-06-11 09:20:53
117.   Alex41592
Also, how many games did Vinny do in the 70's and 80's. Not many games were televised so who did radio? Was it Vinny, Porter and Drysdale and they rotated? Just curious.
2008-06-11 09:20:54
118.   Eric Stephen
I think you are right, although his call of Gibson's HR is awesome too. I have been unable to find it on the internet but heard it years ago (I believe it was when the Dodgers ran their own website, pre-MLBAM). Drysdale's call was better than Jack Buck's "I don't believe what I just saw" call, IMHO.
2008-06-11 09:21:25
119.   bablue

Yeah I think that did happen. I wonder if the same thing would happen here. The ball is certainly not going to be worth as much money.

Oh and trading Kemp for any of those guys in the Rosenthal article would be a nightmare.

2008-06-11 09:22:57
120.   Eric Stephen
Unless he had a network commitment (he did game of the week for NBC, and had previously done work for CBS), Scully did just about every game whether on TV or radio.

If the game was on both TV and radio -- at least from what I remember -- Scully would do innings 1-3 & 7-9 on TV and 4-6 on radio, with Ross Porter and/or Don Drysdale doing the opposite.

2008-06-11 09:24:14
121.   underdog
107 Good catch. It appears the mistake is's, not yours.

Oh lord, I actually both read and mostly agreed with a column that TJ Simers wrote! Someone get me some medication, I'm gonna have a stroke.

But I'm a sucker for anything ripping on Curt Schilling.

2008-06-11 09:27:39
122.   screwballin
116 Drysdale's call of Gibson's homer was great. He just comes unhinged. The Dodgers, or someone, used it in a marketing campaign years ago, and it gave me chills every time.
2008-06-11 09:31:59
123.   cargill06
119 i thought the rumor was trading 'dre?
2008-06-11 09:37:16
124.   ToyCannon
Also you had to be there to understand the significance. The crowd was just going wild, it was like we had won a playoff game.

We all loved Gibby so when he did it, it made it special. If T-Bone had done it, we would have said, cool and then headed home but I don't think we would have gone crazy like we did. I could be wrong.

2008-06-11 09:37:47
125.   Eric Stephen
Chad Billingsley has pitched more innings (45) against the Padres than any other team, and his career ERA against the Friars is 2.05.

Since a shaky relief outing on 4/27/07, Billingsley has allowed 2 runs over 30.2 IP against SD (4 starts, 3 relief apps).

In Petco, his ERA is 1.80, with 30 K in 25 IP.

If Jake Peavy is the Dodger killer, Billingsley is the Padre killer.

Also, Peavy has an 11-1 career mark against LA with a 2.31 ERA. However, his opponent only has a 1.29 career ERA against SD! :)

2008-06-11 09:42:27
126.   MC Safety
Cody Ross is a moron.
2008-06-11 09:47:20
127.   scareduck
101 - Rosenthal's tripe is yet another dangerous indicator that Colletti equates winning, say, two playoff games this season as tantamount to job insurance. What will he do to win two playoff games?

A great deal rests on the graf in the story

Dodgers officials, however, say privately that they are indeed more willing to break up their young core. If that is true, Kemp would bring the greatest return.

Read into that what you will, but I see it as the beginning of yet another disastrous course. Back to 101 -

Rosenthal's theory seems to be that if a team has a struggling offense, it should trade one of its few offensive forces for another offensive player with a lower ceiling who costs more.

Has this not been Ned Colletti's theory as well?

2008-06-11 09:52:05
128.   scareduck
121 - what, exactly, did Schilling do wrong there? Is he an invited member of the press? No, he was doing what anyone else who was within earshot and had a blog might do. Simers just hates anybody with a computer (as though he sent in his column, as Matt Welch once quipped, by carrier pigeon). Simers can occasionally say things that need saying, but his bagging on Schilling was wholly unwarranted.
2008-06-11 09:55:36
129.   ToyCannon
When has Ned ever traded an offensive force for an offensive player of lesser value?
He's released offensive players like Werth and Ross and replaced them with less capable players via free agency but those weren't trades.

He has traded Izzy for pitching, and Betemit for pitching, and Navarro for pitching. I wouldnt' say trading Aybar for Betemit counts as an offensive force for a lesser one but if that is what you're hanging your hat on, it seems questionable.

2008-06-11 09:56:27
130.   underdog
I still have yet to see a time where any of Rosenthal's ominous predictions, especially re: the Dodgers have actually come true. Maybe someone is feeding him these ideas, but there is a lot of evidence that he's just a fool who is not worth giving any credence too.

He's like the Crawfordsville Monster - just pretend he doesn't exist.

2008-06-11 09:58:40
131.   underdog
128 - Not to defend Simers, because I generally hate everything he writes, but I think the point was Schilling was bagging excessively on Kobe Bryant for getting after his teammates when a) he was doing what he should've been doing and b) Schilling even admitted he knows nothing about Kobe other than that now he just knows he's a big jerk for bagging on his teammates. I mean, it's fine, Schilling makes no pretense about being a Celtics booster, but a lot of that just felt like propaganda based on eavesdropping. But since I like Simers and Schilling about equally, I don't really care that much.
2008-06-11 09:58:41
132.   OhioBlues12
These stories by Rosenthal and other mainstream media vilifying our young players and clamoring for more veterans is getting ridiculous. I try to take solace in the notion that McCourt probably has some say in approving additional payroll and at this point I wouldn't think he is too happy with his ROI. I mean, if nothing else he has got to see that Nomar, Jones, Schmidt, and Furcal are all very well paid and are injured? Right?
2008-06-11 10:00:13
133.   blue22
124 - I was there!
2008-06-11 10:00:44
134.   fanerman
I'm not gonna worry about Rosenthal's sky-falling predictions until someone with a touch more credibility starts saying something. I try to avoid listening to Rosenthal and I think I'm better off for it.
2008-06-11 10:00:46
135.   Bob Timmermann
You mean that wasn't a documentary?
2008-06-11 10:04:31
136.   screwballin
Have I missed this, or is Rosenthal correct that they're planning to play Nomar at SS?


2008-06-11 10:05:14
137.   fanerman
135 There was a movie?
2008-06-11 10:06:00
138.   cargill06
136 yes, nomar kent up the middle. i can't wait for the dodgers to make the 3rd out so i can watch this defensive show.
2008-06-11 10:07:38
139.   Daniel Zappala
I like Gurnick's lead for the game last night: "Martin's bat leads the youth movement". I've already started thinking of him as a veteran, but counting him as one of the young players helps our cause. Anytime any "young" player does well, we can point to the triumph of this approach.
2008-06-11 10:08:27
140.   screwballin
132 I didn't read that as Rosenthal vilifying Kemp at all. Some pretty flattering quotes in there.
2008-06-11 10:09:06
141.   KG16
138 - my concern would be for the Dodgers getting three outs with Nomar and Kent up the middle. I'd be nice to have a guy who could strike out, say, 27, on the mound those days.
2008-06-11 10:11:21
142.   underdog
Maybe he's thinking of that Bell Witch movie? (American Haunting was it?)

Rosenthal could be the Bell Witch, too, as far as I'm concerned.

2008-06-11 10:12:42
143.   regfairfield
129 Bradley for Ethier? Granted there's a play time is a factor there, but he's been a beast the last two years.
2008-06-11 10:12:54
144.   blue22
I believe Nomar is a better option than Berroa at least. Playing Berroa at the expense of Hu means they are already willing to throw defense out the window for offense. A good thought, but unfortunately Berroa is hardly an offensive player. Nomar should be an improvement on Berroa offensively.
2008-06-11 10:15:35
145.   regfairfield
Sadly, if we're not going to play Hu, Nomar is our best option.
2008-06-11 10:16:22
146.   Neal Pollack
There seems to be little doubt that Colletti spends time buttering up his lackeys in the mainstream media, if only to defend his pathetic track record. If Kemp had 11, or even 9, HRs at this point, would they be talking about trading him? And if they do trade him, are we all willing to make anti-Colletti signs and bring them to every game?
2008-06-11 10:16:55
147.   cargill06
espn's gamecast has a new "hot zone's" feature, where it indicates the players hot zone's broken up into 9 pieces, i'm sure everyone's seen s a version of it. apperantely willie bloomquist has 8 hot zone's yet is hitting .167.... and shawn marcum now has 7 k's in 3.1 ip
2008-06-11 10:17:16
148.   Neal Pollack
I would like Jon to do a post on the Dodgers' training staff. Our injuries seem to have a way of oddly lingering, and even getting worse as time goes on.
2008-06-11 10:20:16
149.   KG16
145 - hey, I came to that realization last night, the booze did not help
2008-06-11 10:21:04
150.   blue22
145 - I agree wholeheartedly. Allowing Hu the opportunity to improve his offense, while providing terrific defense for a groundball heavy staff, is the best course of action.

If you're going offense over defense, may as well pick the better hitter.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-06-11 10:21:15
151.   Daniel Zappala
They can't trade Kemp, as I just bought a Kemp t-shirt in April and it's the only Dodger paraphernalia I've bought. Ever.
2008-06-11 10:21:57
152.   Bob Timmermann
You could bring anti-Colletti signs to Dodgers games, but they would either be confiscated or you'd be told to leave since they're prohibited.
2008-06-11 10:22:06
153.   El Lay Dave
Derek Lowe might wake up in a cold sweat dreaming about a Nomar-Kent combo behind him in the middle infield. (Nomar's move to the 60-day DL means he's not eligible to return until around the 26th, so it wouldn't seem anything is set in stone yet.)
2008-06-11 10:24:04
154.   Jon Weisman
148 - I've really got nothing to add to that. The only thing to keep in mind is to be skeptical of what you hear being said in the press about recovery times.

I guess I will say that I like the current approach better than the rush-'em-back-and-see-them-become-worse method.

2008-06-11 10:26:00
155.   OhioBlues12
Off topic, but just looking at the stats of some of our minor leaguers and I noticed that Xavier Paul is having a decent season in Las Vegas. Will get a shot after Jones leaves? Seems like he may turn out to be a pretty good player.
2008-06-11 10:28:24
156.   El Lay Dave
I have to laugh at the poll. I know they're ridiculous, but still, it amazes me, both the voter and, in the case, the poser of the question.

Who should be the Dodgers' fifth starter?
Chan Ho Park - 56%
Clayton Kershaw - 27%
Jason Schmidt - 10%
Hong-Chih Kuo - 7%

Jason Schmidt is a choice?! He can't even throw right now!

2008-06-11 10:33:01
157.   sporky
I work with a woman who follows the Dodgers somewhat closely (i.e. goes to about 10 games a year, watches >50% of the games on TV and gets all her news about the team from or pre and postgame shows), and she just told me that Juan Pierre makes a "great leadoff hitter" and that she "doesn't trust" Chad.

I'm going to bite a hole through my lip.

2008-06-11 10:33:52
158.   fanerman
157 Did you tell her about DT?
2008-06-11 10:35:11
159.   MC Safety
What's odd is last year we couldn't get an injured Furcal off the field because he's a gamer and he didn't want to let his team down. Now, all of the sudden, Furcal, with free agency looming is "playing it safe". Also, I love how they include the "but he feels good" bit to the story on his setback.
2008-06-11 10:36:29
160.   sporky
I did, and she seemed politely disinterested. I think she's from the Buzz Bissinger school of thought when it comes to blogs.

Oy, she just said that Broxton should be sent to AAA for a while. The hole in my lip is only getting bigger.

2008-06-11 10:36:46
161.   Eric Stephen
Maybe you can make her hand hurt like Bob's co-worker.
2008-06-11 10:38:37
162.   Bluebleeder87
154 yup. The other trainers let the player dictate when they could come back, not very smart.
2008-06-11 10:40:07
163.   El Lay Dave
81 I also find the Loiaza tidbit in the Rosenthal article, though a minor point, slightly intriguing, if true.

The Dodgers offered to split the difference between Loaiza's contract and [SS Juan] Uribe's, but the White Sox balked and signed Loaiza for the pro-rated minimum after the Dodgers released him

The difference between the two contracts is about $3M, but Colletti could have offered up to the entire difference and be no worse off financially. I know Uribe is falling off a not-to-high cliff offensively, but I think is defensively adequate (?) and much more likely to at least put up a 75 OPS+ than Berroa. Plus Ned would save a little face by getting something - someone who is a little easier to argue is a major-league SS - instead of nothing for Loaiza. Maybe Kenny Williams wanted MORE than the difference from Colletti.

2008-06-11 10:41:48
164.   sporky
This is the same person who said that Kemp was arrogant for getting caught stealing.

It's great that there's another girl who follows baseball (who else would I discuss the state of Russell's facial hair with?), but some of the things she says are just FJM-worthy.

2008-06-11 10:41:57
165.   El Lay Dave
160 She probably voted for Chan Ho. Did you point out to her that Broxton just blew away four Padres on Ks last night?
2008-06-11 10:45:26
166.   Kevin Lewis
How can you not trust Chad at this point? Oh, she must of not seen his last two games. Man, I still loved the game in Chicago, even though we lost.
2008-06-11 10:45:27
167.   regfairfield
164 This is why I don't talk baseball in real life.
2008-06-11 10:45:50
168.   El Lay Dave
160 Oh, and did you gently point out to her the that primary job of a leadoff hitter is to be well above average at getting on-base and that JP has been below league average at it for three straight years, and below it this year when he bats leadoff?
2008-06-11 10:46:15
169.   ToyCannon
Sure that works but we all know the constraints Ned was working under.

Plus the last I looked we play in the NL and MB is doing all his damage this year as a DH. Everytime he's tried to play the outfield he's ended up hurt. I always felt Milton had at least one Carl Everett break out season in him. How interesting that it also happened in the state of Texas.

2008-06-11 10:47:33
170.   ToyCannon
Kazmir against Lackey should be a heck of a game. I wish Chad was dueling against Peavy tomorrow.
2008-06-11 10:50:48
171.   MC Safety
157 At least she didn't tell you Juan Pierre is the hardest guy in the game to strike out.
2008-06-11 10:50:54
172.   sporky
I think she's better than the crop of fans who boo when our pitcher successfully lays down a bunt. She gets an extra few points in my book because she's female (baseball affirmative action!) and could name everyone on the 25 man roster , but, but...

This reminds me of that BP podcast where they interviewed a woman who basically wrote a baseball for dummies/women book.

2008-06-11 10:51:03
173.   scareduck
129 - When has Ned ever traded an offensive force for an offensive player of lesser value?

Nomar for any of LaRoche or DeWitt.
Nomar over Loney.
Luis Gonzalez over Kemp/Ethier.
Andruw Jones over Kemp/Ethier, and moving Pierre to left.

These are not trades. They are, however, tradeoffs, that is, conscious decisions to place a vetruhn on the roster and then making the manager's decision for him in terms of playing time. I therefore don't trust Colletti for one second to deal some of the core kids coming up out of blind stupidity or impatience.

2008-06-11 10:51:29
174.   ToyCannon
I was lucky enough last year that when I found out my co-worker was a huge Dodger fan he was open-minded. At the beginning of the year he liked the Gonzo/Pierre signings, by the end of the year he had converted.
2008-06-11 10:51:48
175.   CajunDodger
He looked as good last night as I have ever seen him.
2008-06-11 10:51:53
176.   El Lay Dave
157 Chad Billingsley's last five starts:
2-1, 32 IP, 31 K, 1.97 ERA, batters hitting .197 against him.
2008-06-11 10:53:05
177.   blue22
170 - Vasgersian said that Wolf vs Billingsley is about as good a pitching matchup as you'll find in the NL right now.

Apparently he's not aware of rule 6 below.

2008-06-11 10:54:02
178.   silverwidow
Kershaw is getting the Billingsley 2006 treatment from Tony Jackson in his game stories. "Walks too many, throws too many pitches" yada yada yada.

The kid is 20.

2008-06-11 10:55:22
179.   MollyKnight
Speaking of Kirk Gibson, I will be seeing him this afternoon in the DBacks clubhouse. I'll give my regards from DT.
2008-06-11 10:56:00
180.   ToyCannon
Wolf has been very good lately and at least he acknowledged how good Chad has been.
2008-06-11 10:56:11
181.   El Lay Dave
179 Don't offer him any eye black.
2008-06-11 10:56:59
182.   JoeyP
Its amazing on many levels that at one time---Dodger Mgmt told us Nomar was too brittle to play any position but 1st base.

Then he got a little more spry (of course, getting older must make one more flexible...), and it turns out he can play 3rd base.

Now back at SS.


2008-06-11 10:57:52
183.   El Lay Dave
176 If you go back a little farther, the last eight starts are almost equally impressive:
4-2, 50 IP, 47 K, 2.34 ERA, .200 BAA, .294 SlgAgainst.
2008-06-11 10:59:15
184.   silverwidow
The most impressive thing about Bills during this stretch has been the amazing cutter. So much movement and deception.
2008-06-11 10:59:22
185.   underdog
I do worry about us facing Wolf, though. The ex-player factor, always seems to do us in. But hopefully Chad will continue to pitch as he has.

I'll be at the Yankees-A's game tonight, but will try to follow the Dodgers on my phone (between innings, so it doesn't annoy my dad too much).

2008-06-11 11:00:01
186.   scareduck
172 - incidentally, sporky, have you read Jean Hastings-Ardell's Breaking Into Baseball: Women and the National Pastime? It's a fascinating book, one I've unfortunately only had a little bit of time to peruse; now that I've finished The Boys of Summer, I've theoretically got some time to do it. She's an interesting person, too; her husband was one of the original Angels, Dan Ardell:

I picked up a copy of her book at a SABR meeting a couple years ago. More info on the book here:

2008-06-11 11:00:47
187.   D4P
Don't offer him any eye black

Just put it in his hat.

Back on topic, is anyone in the MSM holding Torre accountable for his apparent inability to resolve the clubhouse issues the MSM told us he would resolve?

2008-06-11 11:01:04
188.   ToyCannon
Enjoy the game with your Dad, the Dodger box score will await you when you get home.
2008-06-11 11:01:27
189.   Bob Timmermann
Why would your father get annoyed at you glancing down at your phone more than if you just spent an equivalent amount of time looking at a scoreboard?
2008-06-11 11:01:58
190.   old dodger fan
168 Perhaps she would point out that JP's OBP is 4th among Dodgers on the 25 man roster with 50 or more AB's and higher than Kemp or Loney (though not by much) and he has gotten on base in each of the last 13 games.
2008-06-11 11:03:07
191.   Bob Timmermann
Portugal-Czech Republic has had more scoring than the Mariners-Jays.
2008-06-11 11:04:26
192.   El Lay Dave
Gurnick had this at the end of his most recent LaRoche article:

Torre said the switch [Hu / LaRoche] became imperative late in Sunday's game.... Had the Dodgers mounted a ninth-inning rally against closer Kerry Wood, the only position players remaining would have been Hu (batting .159), Luis Maza (.233) and back-up catcher Danny Ardoin. "When you look at the situation pinch-hitting the other day, we didn't have many bullets left," he said.

Um, Joe, you are carrying 12 pitchers on the roster and some of them are getting pretty rusty. That is the price you pay in that trade-off.

2008-06-11 11:04:38
193.   kinbote
182 That's almost as amazing as when we were told that Schmidt's arm checked out fine.
2008-06-11 11:04:50
194.   ToyCannon
Bowa is fueling it, just as we knew he would. When your whole game is built on hustle and brimstone you can't stand to see guys with actual skills play the game so easily so they must not be playing the game hard. It is always so with the cock roosters of the game.

I think that is one of the reasons I like XXXstein so much. He played hard but without the crazy temperment and ego of most small ballplayers.

2008-06-11 11:06:00
195.   sporky
186 Thanks for the rec! I'll look into it.
2008-06-11 11:07:02
196.   fanerman
194 That is true. I've never seen him dive AFTER he made a catch.
2008-06-11 11:07:40
197.   underdog
My dad's nerdy enough to understand. But I will definitely focus more on our father-son time than the silly ol' Dodger game. Maybe when he gets up to go to the bathroom or get himself the traditional malted ice cream.

This is usual our baseball catch-up time, where he finally asks me what's up with the Dodgers and I have to explain it all in a very short attention span fashion. I'll sum it up in very few words. "Rafael Furcal on DL. Ned Colletti foolish. Young players just starting to gel."

I love my dad enough to root for the Yankees tonight, what more do you want? ;-)

2008-06-11 11:09:25
198.   kinbote
From the oldie but goodie file:

Colletti insisted there was no sign of any damage when the Dodgers inspected Schmidt in the offseason before making their contract offer.

"If I had any inkling that this was what was going to be happening in the middle of June, I doubt if we would have gone forward with that," Colletti said.

By the way, this is from last year, but it never shows its age. I'll repost it next year too. :)

2008-06-11 11:12:28
199.   Jim Hitchcock
139 I'm waiting for the explanation of why Martin's Rudolph Valentino 'stache only lasted 2 days.
2008-06-11 11:13:44
200.   Terry A
131 - A column by Simers, written about Schilling and Bryant? It's a sad day when Simers is the most likable person in any group.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-06-11 11:13:55
201.   Bob Timmermann
But if you repost it next year, then other people will repost that Schmidt's injury was not detected until he had surgery for what was considered a smaller matter.

And then there will be an inevitable back and forth about the nature of medical diagnosis.

And then Jon will get frustrated.

And bhsportsguy will end up taking his rage out at the food court at a local mall. He will do this by refusing to buss his own tray.

2008-06-11 11:14:17
202.   sporky
Someone mentioned that DeWitt hasn't been doing very well for a while (since May 15, he's hitting .253/.319/.668). Would Andy see more time at 3B than 1B?
2008-06-11 11:14:38
203.   old dodger fan
197 My Dad took me to my first Dodger game in 1959. We rooted for them together for years. Late in life he became a Braves fan. Ugh! I learned to smile and nod when he talked about them. You're doing the right thing. Enjoy him while you have him. I'd give my 401(k) to watch a Braves game with my Dad today.
2008-06-11 11:16:48
204.   fanerman
203 If I had a 401k (not eligible for one more month), I would, too. Except a Dodger game. My dad wouldn't care to go to a Braves game.
2008-06-11 11:17:54
205.   Samhain
Nice mention of Vinnie in today's Keith Law ESPN chat.

Earlier in the chat someone asked who Law's favorite TV announcers were. Law said he watches ballgames on TV with the sound down.

Then the following question exchange occurred....

Mike (DC): KLAW - Watch the game with the sound down even when Scully's calling it?

Keith Law: (1:57 PM ET ) Sound WAY up. A Vin Scully broadcast should be savored. He is, by the way, the single nicest person I have met since I started working in/around baseball.

2008-06-11 11:18:27
206.   ToyCannon
We took opposite trails. My Dad was a Braves fan because he grew up in Wisconsin but became a Dodger fan because all his sons were Dodger fans.
2008-06-11 11:18:34
207.   LogikReader
Ultimately, the goal is for the Dodgers to remind me of 1978 more than 1988. I dunno... I can really root for this team despite its short comings.

But the major downside to the '88 miracle is that it gave Fred Claire long term immunity. Talk about a double-edged sword!


Ok, I was still discouraged by the Lakers even though they won. I can't believe how good the C's defense is this year. Anybody here think the Lakers have a shot the rest of the way?

I think they have a shot, but its going to be really hard if Odom and Gasol don't show up.

2008-06-11 11:18:56
208.   silverwidow
202 .668 is DeWitt's OPS during that stretch, not SLG.
2008-06-11 11:19:33
209.   LogikReader

That's the first nice thing I've heard from Keith Law in quite some time! Very cool.

2008-06-11 11:19:54
210.   ToyCannon
Vin Scully is nice and great. How did we get so lucky? Maybe that is why we have Tommy to counter balance Vinny.
2008-06-11 11:20:24
211.   fanerman
205 That's what I do. Unless Vin's calling the game, the sound stays down.
2008-06-11 11:20:53
212.   Brent Knapp
Did we draft Ethan Martin as a pitcher or third baseman?
2008-06-11 11:21:20
213.   ToyCannon
I like Keith Law and I don't normally like curt people but when I consider the ignorant questions he's asked, he's being polite by being curt.
2008-06-11 11:21:20
214.   fanerman
2008-06-11 11:22:33
215.   kinbote
201 Bob, my only response to that is: Have you ever tried forcing a tray full of leftover Chinese Express trash into that narrow opening while holding your wife's Banana Republic bag in the other hand? It's not so easy! And if there's a beverage container on the tray, I can almot guarantee that it won't make it into the receptacle. I've forgotten what we're arguing about, but I'm outraged nonetheless.
2008-06-11 11:23:25
216.   ToyCannon
Broxton looked like he was using a toothpick as a bat last night. Hopefully last night is a sign of things to come as he was super nasty right after Dssrat said correctly that Bell was having the better year.
2008-06-11 11:23:33
217.   sporky
208 I lack cut/paste skills.
2008-06-11 11:23:46
218.   silverwidow
Ethan resembles Brett Tomko, which is pretty scary:

2008-06-11 11:24:05
219.   underdog
203 Sweet. :-) Thanks.

My dad and I had some interesting times when I was a wee lad and the Yanks and Dodgers had their world series face-offs. The first two (for me), in the 70s, I was way too young to get that into it, but then for the 81 series, when I was 11, we had a pretty friendly rivalry going by then. But otherwise, he's always rooted for the Dodgers as his second team, and likes them even more now because he's always liked Torre (much more even than I do) so there's less of a rivalry -- until they meet again in the world series. Which would be pretty special if it happened again in his lifetime.

Anyway, I shall savor these games...indeed.

2008-06-11 11:26:10
220.   Bluebleeder87
it was cool seeing SB post yesterday... I guess he is really busy cause I dont see him post that much this year.
2008-06-11 11:27:13
221.   underdog
Btw, you have my permission to publicly censure me if you see me post here anytime while the A's-Yanks game is still going.
2008-06-11 11:28:22
222.   dzzrtRatt
These stories by Rosenthal and other mainstream media vilifying our young players and clamoring for more veterans is getting ridiculous.

Now I understand why past Dodger GMs absolutely refused to take the Dodgers into full rebuilding mode. They couldn't take the heat. The local and national media believe the Dodgers are a rich team in a key market that can and should go out and buy or trade for topline players, and get irritated by the idea that some minor league scrubeenee would be given a job that rightly belongs to, say, Magglio Ordonez. In the scenario with which the baseball media is most comfortable, the Dodgers are allowed to develop one young player, maybe two, but not eight.

I would turn Rosenthal on his head. The Dodgers should realize they're still a year or two away from being a great team. So, let's trade Kent and Lowe to the Red Sox in exchange for Buchholz and Pedroia and a couple of single-A prospects, and then Penny to the Mets for Mike Pelfry and some more prospects. Think Rosenthal would go for that?

(Sort of kidding).

2008-06-11 11:28:23
223.   27indigo
208 I thought the whole reason mgmt loved DeWitt so much was his ability to make adjustments. Doesn't sound like he's doing much adjusting.

Either that, or mgmt was just spouting off some nonsense.

2008-06-11 11:28:59
224.   Brent Knapp
214 why would someone at hardball times analyze him as a 3b? I know with loney there was some debate, but is there any debate with ethan martin?

2008-06-11 11:29:53
225.   kinbote
215 My ommission of the "s" in "almot" was intentional. I wanted to visually portray the sheer passion of my reply. To make up for the error, I will now intentionally spell "omission" incorrectly [done] in honor of Bob's double-double consonants.
2008-06-11 11:30:26
226.   Bluebleeder87
I'm in the boat that likes Nomar playing SS, anybody is better then the production we've been getting from that position.
2008-06-11 11:32:35
227.   Jon Weisman
224 - Well, it didn't help that MLB announced him as a third baseman when the Dodgers drafted him.
2008-06-11 11:33:08
228.   Eric Enders
224 At the draft Bud Selig erroneously announced that the Dodgers were drafting Martin as a 3B, so the Hardball Times probably just never got the correction.
2008-06-11 11:33:24
229.   Eric Enders
Or, what he said.
2008-06-11 11:33:35
230.   fanerman
226 The SS position is sad when I'm not sad that Nomar may be playing SS for us again.
2008-06-11 11:35:26
231.   Brent Knapp
[...] thanks for clearing up the confusion.
2008-06-11 11:37:20
232.   underdog
I still don't quite get what's up with Furcal. I mean, as frustrating as it is to not have him in there, given past history I suppose it's good not to force someone back only to have them get hurt again if they're not 100%. But it sounded like a doctor said he wasn't ready even though he feels fine. He went from being very close to not that close, without any setbacks. What changed? What is going on?

Should we call in Mulder and Scully?

Sorry if this is rehashing something that was answered already.

2008-06-11 11:39:15
233.   Eric Stephen
From a morbid curiosity standpoint, I'd love to see Nomar playing SS. At the very least, he'll get time at a position that doesn't block anyone (I'm assuming Hu needs a month or so in AAA to work out the kinks), so I don't have to get worked up about lost PA for LaRoche, Loney, or DeWitt.

Here are his +/- the last two years, at positions less demanding than SS:

3B: +2 (in 61 innings)

1B: -16 (30th in MLB, in only 571 innings)
3B: -5

1B: +7 (7th in MLB)

2008-06-11 11:41:43
234.   Eric Stephen
Should we call in Mulder and Scully?

By the time the Dodgers are in St. Louis (August 5-7), Furcal should be back anyway.

Plus, Vin Scully won't be broadcasting on that trip. :)

2008-06-11 11:42:13
235.   Jon Weisman
Oh, for those waiting for a Kuo post, Andrew did us the favor of writing it already.

2008-06-11 11:44:12
236.   underdog
234 Ba-dum-bump! [rimshot] ;-)
2008-06-11 11:46:04
237.   Jim Hitchcock
234 There is a chip available to transmogrify Steiner/Monday into Scully.

The downside is that installation requires a direct jack into the brain.

2008-06-11 11:53:09
238.   Bob Timmermann
My ancestors gave their lives in the cow pastures of Clinton County, Illinois to protect those double consonants.
2008-06-11 12:05:58
239.   dsfan
Would love to see Jon revisit many of Rosenthal's projections on what the Dodgers will or might do and see how well they squared with what did or didn't happen. Sometimes I get the sense that the Dodgers feed him misinformation, or that he is relying strictly on what other clubs are saying about he Dodgers, not what the Dodgers themselves are saying, almost like the Dodgers don't play ball with him the way some other clubs do, or the way agents do.
2008-06-11 12:13:56
240.   Eric Enders
The Dodgers also could very well be telling Rosenthal these things as a way of giving the young players a little kick in the pants, without actually having any intention of dealing them.
2008-06-11 12:13:56
241.   Jon Weisman
"Dodger third baseman Blake DeWitt was named the National League's Rookie of the month today by Major League Baseball."
2008-06-11 12:14:14
242.   Jon Weisman
"DeWitt hit .322 with five home runs and 18 RBI over 26 games during the month of May. The 22-year old went 28-for-87, scored 14 runs, hit two doubles, drew eight walks, posted a slugging percentage of .517 and an on-base percentage of .379. DeWitt ranks second among all Major Leagues rookies with a .290 average and is tied for the Major League-lead with six bases-loaded hits. Gillette, the presenting sponsor of the National League Rookie of the Month Award will donate $5,000 in the name of Blake DeWitt to the Dodgers Dream Foundation. "
2008-06-11 12:14:53
243.   Jon Weisman
240 - As I wrote in the comments at 6-4-2, how different is this from the impatience-with-youth column Plaschke wrote last fall?
2008-06-11 12:15:55
244.   D4P
The Dodgers also could very well be telling Rosenthal these things as a way of giving the young players a little kick in the pants, without actually having any intention of dealing them

I've thought about that, which led me to wonder: in what way is the performance of the young players thus far subject to improvement from a mere "kick in the pants"? Will they run harder? Throw faster? Hit the ball farther?

2008-06-11 12:19:22
245.   Eric Enders
The Dodgers actually had three of the league's better rookies in May. DeWitt went .322/.379/.517 (despite entering a deep slump in the latter third of the month), Kuroda had a 2.87 ERA in 37 innings, and Wade allowed one run all month.

All those young players ever do is drag down the team. ;)

2008-06-11 12:27:17
246.   Daniel Zappala
244 They will fly farther and thus get to first base faster if you kick them as they are running out an infield chopper.
2008-06-11 12:28:38
247.   D4P
The ball is not rolling very far in the Switzerland-Turkey game.
2008-06-11 12:35:23
248.   Jon Weisman

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