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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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Vote of Confidence, With an Explanation
2008-06-21 22:35
by Jon Weisman

Dodger owner Frank McCourt has given general manager Ned Colletti a vote of confidence, in a manner of speaking, writes Bill Shaikin in his well-written Sunday baseball column for the Times.

"I have the utmost confidence in Ned and his group," McCourt said. "We've come light-years in terms of having more of a team in the front office."

This is not to diminish McCourt's satisfaction in no longer having to referee intramural disputes, but the object is to win, not just to play nice. Colletti could win, or try to, by trading young talent for veteran help before the July 31 trading deadline.

"We have never made a decision during my ownership based on immediate, near-term, win-loss results," McCourt said. "That's not how we're built. That's not what we're about."

The apparent conclusion, then, would be that Colletti would be safe no matter how the Dodgers finish. Colletti and McCourt agreed last year, after all, that the Dodgers should not package young talent for Johan Santana, Miguel Cabrera or Mark Teixeira.

However, McCourt refused to say whether Colletti will keep his job if the Dodgers finish with a losing record.

McCourt called it a trick question, and not unjustifiably. If the Dodgers spiral toward last place, he doesn't want to be reminded of a quote he gave in June. He gave a quote in support of Paul DePodesta three years ago, then fired him before the Dodgers had lost even one more game.

That leaves Colletti with no assurances, and with no idea what kind of team the Dodgers might be fielding by the trading deadline.

To that point, Shakin adds that "Colletti insists he won't go for broke to try to keep his job, to showcase himself for the owners."

Update: Seattle will be granted permission to interview Kim Ng and/or Logan White for its general manager vacancy should the Mariners desire to request it, Shakin writes. Apparently, it's Colletti's decision. Read into that what you will.

Update 2: And one more from a busy Shaikin: The Union Station-Dodger Stadium shuttle bus is coming back next month, pending Los Angeles City Council approval.

Under the plan, the city will cover the estimated $70,000 cost of the program through surplus funds in the transportation department, with the Dodgers responsible for marketing. City Council President Eric Garcetti said he expected fans would pay a nominal fee to ride the shuttle.

"It'll be a lot less than parking at Dodger Stadium," Garcetti said. "Save your money for Dodger Dogs."

The shuttles would run from Union Station, with two stops along Sunset Boulevard, enabling fans to connect from Amtrak, Metrolink, the downtown DASH shuttle and several city bus lines. The estimated ride time from Union Station would be 16 to 19 minutes, according to city documents.

Comments (98)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-06-21 22:42:08
1.   silverwidow

Are these the two highest Game Scores of all-time?

Sandy Koufax, 9/9/65 vs. Cubs (Perfect Game); Game Score: 101

Randy Johnson, 5/18/04 vs. Braves (Perfect Game); Game Score: 100

2008-06-21 22:45:30
2.   underdog
This is actually kind of reassuring, in a way. Whether or not Colletti deserves to be GM, or deserves to keep his job at least through the year is separate from what he might do if he is directly feeling pressure to "do something" big in order to keep his job. By at least giving the GM until this next offseason, one would assume that he won't go for broke and trade young players for some "help," which may be no help at all. The future would still seem to be brighter than the present for the Dodgers. Whether Colletti is a part of that future is another matter, but unless he's fired right now, which he won't be, he shouldn't be scared into making further dumb mistakes.
2008-06-21 22:46:57
3.   dzzrtRatt
Also LAT'd and somewhat to the point:

Addendum: Now that LaRoche is on the 25-man roster and Torre clearly plans to use him, I think we can all be calmer about the roster, don't you think?

I like Ardoin better than Bennett, so I hope they don't bring Bennett back. That's about it. I assume when Rafael comes back, it's Maza who goes down, not LaRoche. If we get both Garciaparra and Furcal back, I expect we'd demote Berroa and keep him warm down in Vegas, and that Andy would stay. Have to admit, Berroa has played well enough to forestall a bigger, dumber move, so he's been a net plus.

LaRoche's trump card is the potential for power. They certainly don't expect him to start hitting dingers and turn around the team's fortunes immediately, but they know if they don't get power from him, there's nowhere else to go (except Jones), so they're going to have to find a spot for him.

2008-06-21 22:47:43
4.   Bob Timmermann
Kerry Wood had a 105 in his 20 K game against the Astros in 1998.

Some extra inning performances are longer.

2008-06-21 22:47:49
5.   sporky
E: J Pierre (2, bobble)

Bobble error! I learn something new every day.

2008-06-21 22:51:36
6.   underdog
5 You've never attended Juan Pierre Bobble Error Night? Bring the family!
2008-06-21 22:52:03
7.   sporky
2 I agree, although Frank's word isn't worth much.

If Ng or White is becomes a GM elsewhere, I wonder how much (if at all) that would affect Ned's general managing.

2008-06-21 22:53:42
8.   sporky
7 "is becomes." Lovely.

5 I didn't know you could be charged with an official "bobble error." I thought it would be a fielding error.

2008-06-21 22:55:37
9.   sporky
Bobble is fun to say repeatedly. Bobble, bobble, bobble.
2008-06-21 22:56:54
10.   Jon Weisman
8 - Officially, it's just an error.
"Bobble" is descriptive.
2008-06-21 22:57:38
11.   dzzrtRatt
What if you were the GM and you wanted to "go for broke," with no current Dodger player or prospect untouchable? Is there a trade out there that would make the Dodgers a World Series-caliber club? Can anyone think of one?

To pick an obvious possibility, what it would take to get Matt Holliday would almost have to include either Billingsley or Kershaw, plus LaRoche, plus more, or else why would the Rockies do a deal?

The Angels should try to get Holliday. That's the kind of team that should do a deadline deal. They aren't good enough to overcome the Sox in the postseason, but they're close and adding Holliday would make them scary. They can afford to give up pitching and youth to get him. They kinda owe it to their fans to go for it before Vlad gets too much older.

2008-06-21 22:59:39
12.   Bob Timmermann describes what an error was so you will see things like "fielding" or "throwing" or "bobble" "dropped throw" or my personal favorite "catcher interference."
2008-06-21 23:00:24
13.   sporky
10 :(

11 That would be quite an expensive outfield.

2008-06-21 23:01:02
14.   Bob Timmermann
If the Angels got Holliday, they're going to have find somebody to take Gary Matthews, Jr. off their hands. The Rockies wouldn't want him.
2008-06-21 23:06:30
15.   ToyCannon
Evidently communication is over rated when it comes to winning. It doesn't really matter if everyone is on the same page if the page is badly written.
2008-06-21 23:06:57
16.   Jon Weisman
See update to this post above re: Seattle.
2008-06-21 23:07:17
17.   Lexinthedena
14 Cubs would take him.
2008-06-21 23:09:57
18.   Jon Weisman
And the Union Station shuttle is returning. See yet another update above.
2008-06-21 23:13:19
19.   Lexinthedena
16 I can't imagine this board if White moves on. Well actually I can.
2008-06-21 23:14:06
20.   underdog
If anyone was wondering what Stripe from "Gremlins" has been up to:

2008-06-21 23:16:35
21.   Bob Timmermann
It sounds like the shuttle would run for all games rather than just Friday nights. This could mean I could go to games after work a lot more easily.
2008-06-21 23:25:56
22.   ToyCannon
If Furcal, Jones, and Schmidt can really be ready by the All-Star game it will be like making a huge blockbuster trade without giving up anything. The only position left to upgrade would be 2nd and you can't really do that.

Hopefully for White or Ng they get asked.

Good news on the shuttle. I'll have to give it a shot when it is up and running. If I drive my truck I figure the cost is 20.00 in gas. If they market it right they should get a decent response. The downside is that I'll probably be riding back to Union Station with a bunch of drunken fools so if we win the ride will be fun, if we lose it will be irritating. Kind of like DT without the drunken fools part.

2008-06-21 23:26:50
23.   bigcpa
First of all:

LAD .262 .328 .381
LAA .260 .322 .389

I don't see a lot of columns about the dysfunctional Angel offense this year.

Unfortunately this column sows the seeds of the "offense is too young" theory. This paragraph is especially bad:

On the days the Dodgers rest Jeff Kent, they might run Kemp, Martin and Loney through the heart of the order.

The horror! At least acknowledge that Kent has been awful himself. And our leadoff guy gets another free pass. This dysfunctional offense avg'd 5.1 runs/gm in April.

2008-06-21 23:30:31
24.   Jon Weisman
23 - I don't know where you're getting that negative read. It comes across to me as pro-kids. Re-read these four graphs of Shaikin's:

In either case, the Dodgers would risk disrupting the core of young players they have trumpeted for years without ever letting that core establish itself. They also would risk gutting the depth of an organization that now calls Angel Berroa its major league shortstop.

The kids won't all pan out, but Russell Martin, Chad Billingsley and Jonathan Broxton already have. James Loney, in his first full season, is hitting .308.

Matt Kemp, in his first full season, is hitting .291 with seven home runs and 13 stolen bases. He has driven in 43 runs, the team high.

The coaches might tell Blake DeWitt something once and might have to tell Kemp the same thing five times, but he is by far the most talented among this group, the most coveted by opposing teams. The Dodgers say they aren't trading him.

2008-06-21 23:31:13
25.   Jon Weisman
And this one:

The Dodgers could get to October yet, in this division, without an extreme makeover. If they shatter the emerging core, there could be a lot of veteran patch jobs in the future, a lot of overpriced .500 teams. That's a high cost for one round of the playoffs, unless you believe you better get there today or you won't see tomorrow.

2008-06-21 23:37:50
26.   Bob Timmermann
If I told you once Matt, I told you five times. The trashcans are placed there for a reason.
2008-06-21 23:40:17
27.   Lexinthedena
I am very encouraged by Kemp's recent at bats. He will hit hit 15 hr's after the break. You heard it here first.
2008-06-21 23:44:57
28.   OaklandAs
Career Home/Road Splits for Matt Holliday (from

Home: .363 AVG/.427 OBP/.658 SLG/1.085 OPS
Road: .274 AVG/.337 OBP/.444 SLG/.780 OPS

Is Holliday really worth a Billingsley/LaRoche package?

2008-06-21 23:45:56
29.   bigcpa
25 I agree he's not bashing the kids. It's just not how I would have explained the offense's struggles. Whether Kent or Nomar are in the lineup doesn't affect my ability to assess Kemp, Loney, Ethier.

The Angels mix in Howie Kendrick or Casey Kotchman, relatively invisibly, because they have Vladimir Guerrero and Garret Anderson to carry the load.

Exactly what load has Garret Anderson been carrying?

2008-06-21 23:53:38
30.   Jon Weisman
29 - I took his point to be that as long as Kent is around, Torre won't be able to resist batting him third, fourth or fifth, regardless of what Kent is hitting.

I'm still not seeing anything in the column that indicates that Shaikin believes the kids are the offensive problem.

2008-06-21 23:59:07
31.   bigcpa
30 If those three can anchor themselves there, the Dodgers can start breaking in youngsters where they should be, at the bottom of the lineup.

Would you have written that?

2008-06-22 00:00:43
32.   Greg Brock
Sure, I'm disappointed with the Dodgers, but I'm really pleased with the microbrew I found tonight.

Good Microbrew on Sunset. Lovely.

2008-06-22 00:06:31
33.   natepurcell
If Logan White leaves, I will cry.
2008-06-22 00:13:21
34.   Greg Brock
I wonder if Colletti still makes jokes about VORP.

VORP is funny. Not 60 million dollars dead money funny, but still...Humorous.

Jokes. Funny guy. Humor. We laugh!


2008-06-22 00:24:58
35.   Eric Enders
It looks to me like Shaikin is trying to play it right down the middle -- he's not outright blaming the young players, but neither is he taking up their defense. And neither does he acknowledge the glaringly obvious truth that the young players are the only thing that's gone right on this team. And he suggests that the Dodgers could win (or try to) by trading young talent for a veteran, which implies that he lacks faith in the young players.

In reality, there is no scenario whereby the Dodgers could improve their chances to "win now" by trading young players, because any such trade would involve creating multiple holes on the MLB roster. To get a Matt Holliday, you'd have to trade at least three guys currently filling roles on the team, which means you'd be making your team weaker overall despite adding a marquee player. For the top-level players that Shaikin and Colletti are dreaming about, James McDonald ain't gonna cut it. We're talking about giving up some combination of Kemp, Loney, Billingsley, Broxton, Ethier, Kershaw, LaRoche, or DeWitt. The notion that the 2008 Dodgers could be improved by such a trade is a ludicrous proposition that could only be advanced by someone who was predisposed to believe that veterans, simply by their veteraniness, are the only types of players capable of helping a team win a pennant race.

Shaikin does talk about the rash of injuries, but it would have been nice to see him acknowledge the obvious truth that the Dodgers' problems this year have been caused almost exclusively by the poor performance or unavailability of veterans, namely Jones, Pierre, Furcal, Penny, Schmidt, Sweeney, Nomar, Berroa, Loaiza, and Proctor (along with the poor performance of one young player, Hu). Any column that attempts to assess the state of the Dodgers without recognizing this is a column that hasn't been completely thought out.

2008-06-22 00:33:06
36.   bigcpa
35 Very well put- and at 2:30am your time?
2008-06-22 00:37:34
37.   Jon Weisman
31 - Maybe not, but I don't disagree with it per se. I'd like a lineup that had Loney, Kemp, Ethier and Martin at its heart (in whatever order). No, Pierre wouldn't be my leadoff hitter, and while I wouldn't oppose batting LaRoche second, I wouldn't oppose batting him seventh either.

I mean, he's basically saying that "those three" are no longer kids that need to be babied. If that's the smoking gun, there isn't much smoke.

In response to 35, it seems clear to me that Shaikin thinks trading the kids to win now would be a mistake. Again, reread the graphs in 24 and 25 . I agree he could have assigned more blame to some vets, but I think some of these criticisms border on nitpicking.

2008-06-22 00:37:42
38.   Eric Enders
Scott Proctor calls out Penny and Kuroda in his postgame interview: "I'm tired of people making excuses and saying I'm hurt. I'm not."

And what are we to make of Colletti's completely unsolicited offer to send Ng or White off to Seattle? The cynic in me sees a desperate attempt on Colletti's part to save his own job by removing his rivals one-by-one until all viable replacement GMs have been cleared from the room. Then again, if Ned is as nice a guy as they say he is, maybe he's just being vocal about trying to get a deserved promotion for one of his people.

2008-06-22 00:38:40
39.   Eric Enders
36 1:30. We do things on Mountain Time here in far west Texas.
2008-06-22 00:42:16
40.   bigcpa
37 I plead guilty to nitpicking. We've seen very little "what's wrong with the team?" stuff, and I'm worried about the wrong storyline taking shape.
2008-06-22 00:42:43
41.   Greg Brock
Why in the world would Colletti want Ng and White around? She is the most likely future female GM, and he is the scouting wunderkind that gave the Dodgers this entire crop of young players.

Of the three, he's the only one with no discernible achievements.

2008-06-22 00:44:39
42.   bigcpa
Joe Sheehan chat yesterday- "I really like Matt Kemp. He's got a 15% shot of being Vladimir Guerrero."
2008-06-22 00:48:04
43.   Jon Weisman
40 - Look, the possibility of a kids-for-vets trade is out there, however stupid an idea it is. Shaikin's article doesn't torch it, but it sure puts a lot of holes in it.

38 - That's the obvious question, although I don't know why you call it "completely unsolicited." Do you think Colletti sought out Shaikin to talk about this? Much more likely it was the reverse.

2008-06-22 00:51:23
44.   Eric Enders

Of the three, Colletti, the cagey baseball lifer, is the only one to accomplish a thing in the game of baseball.

The inexperienced White may have gotten lucky with his stable full of untamable young bucks like Matt Kemp.

Ng, a baseball outsider, is at her best on paper, staring down Eric Gagne in arbitration.

But neither of them knows what it takes. Neither of them has the experience.

Neither of them knows what it's like to make that exhilarating deadline trade. Neither knows what it's like to fire a manager.

And, most important of all, neither of them has a shiny gold World Series ring like Colletti does.





2008-06-22 00:55:07
45.   Greg Brock
44 Colletti must look around and see the field.

Like Caesar, he is surrounded on all sides.

The scouting guru is beloved.

The front office impresario ready to break the glass ceiling.

He sits in his office, 60 million lighter and surrounded by potential.

His time is now.

But has it passed?


2008-06-22 00:56:00
46.   bigcpa
Another Sheehan copy/paste:

Guido (Charleston, WV): Will the Dodgers be dumb enough to trade Kemp? Hu? LaRoche?

Joe Sheehan: I think this is a battle for the soul of the franchise. If Ned Colletti makes another Dioner Navarro deal with one of those guys, I think the Dodgers lose Logan White within the year, and it gets very dark and cold up from Sunset Blvd. If Colletti doesn't do that, perhaps White gets elevated into the GM's chair, and the Dodgers become the Red Sox West in three years.

2008-06-22 00:56:58
47.   Greg Brock
Whatever happened to the old crusty veteran scout that found Ethier? Did he die?

I bet he died.

2008-06-22 00:59:04
48.   Dr Gonzo
37 Indeed; I was almost encouraged by Shaikin's piece, especially given how Plaschke would have handled it.

(1) He calls Schmidt, Nomar, Jones and Loaiza "busts."
(2) He says that breaking up the young "core" would lead to a .500 future.
(3) He recognizes that "they're not one player away."
(4) He does lament that our youngsters are not supporting players in the offense, they ARE the offense... and implies we should adjust our expectations accordingly.

38 And regarding Ng/White: even considering the soul-wilting season we're enduring, I can't see Ned as being so machiavellian... besides, isn't there a 'viable replacement' in NY whose contract expires in September?

2008-06-22 00:59:31
49.   regfairfield
That guy's totally heard of Jay Bruce. We should get him.
2008-06-22 01:11:40
50.   Eric Enders
43 Unsolicited by Seattle, I should have said.

And speaking of offering unsolicited GM advice to Seattle, I think Colletti himself would be a great fit for them.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-06-22 01:15:13
51.   Greg Brock
Colleti could stay in the front office. He's a PR guy, after all. Not a baseball guy.

Ng and White could run the baseball ops, and Colletti could coordinate the father son catches and Hollywood Stars extravaganzas.

2008-06-22 01:22:05
52.   Eric Enders
He would probably go with Proven Veteran Sylvester Stallone over Ed Norton.
2008-06-22 01:33:55
53.   Greg Brock
Colletti signs M. Night Shyamalan to a two picture, 50 million dollar deal.

"I feel like I'm signing him on the way up!"

2008-06-22 01:50:14
54.   bhsportsguy
Jayson Stark or Rob Neyer named Ng and White as possible candidates for the GM job earlier in the week, they were among several possibilities.

I agree with Jon, Shaikin asked Ned if he would object to their interviewing for the job and he said no he wouldn't.

Why is that a story, its not likely that a move like that would take place during the season. White already interviewed for the Houston job last off-season.

I have never been comfortable with the kids vs. everybody else argument, frankly its tired and it really doesn't make much sense to me. And when it comes up, I tend to want to vacate for a while.

And to be absolutely clear, it doesn't matter who brings it or which side anyone is on. If you like the kids fine, then be ready to take the criticism, fair or unfair because they are getting paid to play baseball in the No. 2 market. If you think the veterans are to blame, than suggest reasoned alternatives not just play 8 guys from Jacksonville.

My read between the lines is that whatever happens with this team, ultimately Colletti will answer for its success or failure. For now, it appears, he has all the cards he will get to play with since he appears to holding the company line on not dealing his young players. However, this also probably negates the Dodgers being "sellers" since McCourt isn't offering any guarantees yet.

2008-06-22 01:52:09
55.   bhsportsguy
46 I still say if you have to reach for the Dionner Navarro deal as the poster child for bad trades, its a pretty long reach.
2008-06-22 01:58:06
56.   Greg Brock
If the kids get criticism, who, exactly, gets credit?

I missed the part where the plucky vets have led this team to its winning ways.

2008-06-22 02:00:01
57.   Eric Enders
"suggest reasoned alternatives not just play 8 guys from Jacksonville."

Given that eight guys who were recently with Jacksonville are the ones carrying this team, that's probably not as unreasonable an alternative as you're saying it is.

In fact, the single biggest thing that's gone wrong with the Dodgers in the last three years is the reluctance to play guys from Jacksonville unless absolutely forced to.

2008-06-22 02:53:01
58.   Andrew Shimmin
Colletti is like Gary Bennett: there was never any reason to sign him. There's no reason to keep him. There are plenty of reasons to believe you could do better, with minimal effort. But we won't be rid of him until some cockamamie excuse is ginned up.

I hope the McCourts have somebody going over his browser history every night. It would solve everybody's problems if Colletti's been looking at porn on his work computer. Think about it: The Dodgers would get a new GM. The McCourts wouldn't have to take the hit for firing another one. Hour after hour of Dodger coverage on ESPN. Colletti could get a show on one of those cable channels devoted to giving shows to people who get famous for being morons, publicly. Win/Win/Win/Win.

2008-06-22 06:10:02
59.   Sam DC
Well, now that Wayne Krivsky has signed up with the Mets (so perfect!), McCourts got to keep Colletti.

What else could he do?

2008-06-22 06:23:21
60.   herchyzer
37 . Well. > took it to mean that for the present season, having Kemp, Loney, Martin, and Ethier as the "heart" does present a problem as exemplified by the dearth of scored runs since the demise of Furcal (That's me using Furcal's injury as a benchmark, not him). In other words he's saying that presently, due to their green-ness, the young'uns can't handle the load asked of them. In a more perfect Dodger world they wouldn't be expected to.

He's also suggesting that there's no short term fix available, and reporting that Dodger brass seems to share that opinion and is determined to "stay the course." This, naturally, is a great relief to all.


2008-06-22 06:26:29
61.   herchyzer
60 . ">" was supposed to be "I", for what it's worth.
2008-06-22 06:33:43
62.   Ken Noe
This article apparently is like a Rorschach test, people see different things. I see Shakin very unimpressed with Ned: In three seasons under Ned Colletti, the Dodgers' victory total has gone from 88 to 82 to a projected 74, while the payroll has gone from $98 million to $108 million to $119 million. There's a lot of busts, for a lot of money....This is not the best of resumes for a general manager.

I see McCourt thankfully committed to looking to the long term, as quoted by Jon above. "We have never made a decision during my ownership based on immediate, near-term, win-loss results." I also see that about the best he can say about Ned and his "group" is that they have "more of a team in the front office." And then there's this: McCourt refused to say whether Colletti will keep his job if the Dodgers finish with a losing record."

So when I look at the ink blot, I see McCourt saying that Ned won't be making a big deal involving the young ones, even if he wants to--and he says he doesn't. Ned rather seems to invest most of his hopes in getting people off the DL. If the team rebounds, fine. If it falls apart, Ned could be job hunting. Stay around .500 and he's probably okay another year. But whatever happens will happen with the the essential team that now exists, DL included, barring a surge in the next two weeks.

But then the ink blots always say more about us, don't they?

2008-06-22 07:37:56
63.   silverwidow
28 Is Holliday really worth a Billingsley/LaRoche package?

Who suggested this? Billingsley is the best pitcher in the organization and won't be traded for anything.

2008-06-22 08:06:54
64.   Suffering Bruin
56 Echo chamber alert! That's me, echoing.

I want Logan White to be the GM of the Dodgers. I want Kim Ng to stay with the Dodgers. That is all.

2008-06-22 08:15:39
65.   Johnny Nucleo
54 bhsportsguy, I may not always agree with you, but I always appreciate your viewpoint in these discussions.
2008-06-22 08:28:36
66.   Disabled List
Just to be a bit of a contrarian... How sure are we that Colletti's replacement will be any better than Colletti? Logan White is phenomenal at the amateur draft, but as far as we know, he's never done projections and cost-benefit analyses on potential free-agents. Nor has he ever had to negotiate with the Scott Borases of the world. From her arbitration experiences, Kim Ng would appear to have the negotiating chops for the job, but what do we really know about her free-agent scouting and philosophy? And does DeJon Watson have the requisite experience to handle the job?

If McCourt decides to go outside the organization to fill the job, would any A-list GM dare come work for an owner who's already on his third general manager in five years?

2008-06-22 08:39:03
67.   silverwidow
66 would any A-list GM dare come work for an owner who's already on his third general manager in five years?

Probably Brian Cashman.

I can see Ng getting the interim job if Colletti is fired in-season, though.

2008-06-22 08:48:09
68.   Bob Timmermann
I would be extremely perturbed if the McCourts fired Colletti midseason. That would be bad on so many levels.

Colletti will most assuredly finish this season and I think he has a 95% chance to finish next season.

2008-06-22 08:53:01
69.   bhsportsguy
65 Thanks.

Sometimes I feel I'm Daffy Duck and everyone else is Bugs Bunny.

Bugs: "Duck season!"
Daffy: "Rabbit season!"
Bugs: "Duck season!"
Daffy: "Rabbit season!"
Bugs: "Duck season!!"
Daffy: "Rabbit season!!"
Bugs: (reversing the flow) "Rabbit season!"
Daffy: "Duck season!!!"
Bugs: "Rabbit season!!!"
Daffy: "I say it's duck season, and I say, FIRE!"

2008-06-22 09:01:11
70.   Bob Timmermann
Would you like some tea?

How many lumps do you take?

2008-06-22 09:19:00
71.   ChicagoDodger
66 White is phenomenal at the amateur draft, but as far as we know, he's never done projections and cost-benefit analyses on potential free-agents.

This is a bad thing? Anyone who has ever done a cost/benefit analyses on free agents would conclude you stay away from just about all of them. Certainly the most expensive ones.

If McCourt decides to go outside the organization to fill the job, would any A-list GM dare come work for an owner who's already on his third general manager in five years?

I would go with Ng/White as co-GM's and let them do what they do best. As for free agency, I am not opposed to them taking their time in this department. After years of watching other supposed exeperienced Dodger GM's screw up in free agency, isn't taking their time, perhaps even sitting out a year the best strategy anyway?

2008-06-22 09:20:51
72.   Eric Stephen
Scott Proctor calls out Penny and Kuroda in his postgame interview: "I'm tired of people making excuses and saying I'm hurt. I'm not."

I read that quote as, ""I'm tired of people making excuses and saying Scott Proctor is hurt. Scott Proctor is not."

If everyone spoke like Rickey Henderson, communication would be a lot clearer in this world!

2008-06-22 09:25:53
73.   JoeyP
How sure are we that Colletti's replacement will be any better than Colletti?

I doubt he could do worse.
You look at the dead money free agent signings, and the dumb trades--->and Juan Pierre---> Colletti just doesnt understand how to assess value to MLB players.

I hope the Dodgers can get a stat guy back in there, and then they'll become Red Sox West. Its not going to happen with Colletti.

2008-06-22 09:27:07
74.   ChicagoDodger
72 If you are correct, and it looks like you may be, then that's not a good thing for Proctor.

If so, he should have just followed up that comment with "and I'm tired of people saying I belong in the major leagues. I don't." Not that I can imagine their are many who still think he does.

2008-06-22 09:27:11
75.   JoeyP
I would be extremely perturbed if the McCourts fired Colletti midseason. That would be bad on so many levels.

No it wouldnt.

2008-06-22 09:30:08
76.   Bob Timmermann
I guess some people like to see complete organizational disarray.
2008-06-22 09:33:36
77.   ChicagoDodger
76 I guess some people like to see complete organizational disarray.

Bob, I think you summed up the last 20 years of the Dodgers in just one sentence.

It was either write that, or write "as opposed to?"

2008-06-22 09:40:22
78.   Howard Fox
75 ok, so they fire him, and bring in someone else you don't like who is willing to trade the kids...then you'll be happy?
2008-06-22 09:40:54
79.   Bob Timmermann
Sometimes I feel like Danton surrounded by an army of sans-culottes.
2008-06-22 09:41:55
80.   Howard Fox
79 I knew I shouldn't have skipped my English classes in high school
2008-06-22 09:42:57
81.   Bob Timmermann
History class. Your comment was better anyway. I was getting way too Dennis Miller-ish there.
2008-06-22 09:45:18
82.   Eric Stephen
Positivity point of the day:

Entering June 22, 2007, Jeff Kent was hitting .264/.349/.460. From that point forward,he hit .337/.400/.537.

2008-06-22 09:48:13
83.   silverwidow
78 There's a difference between trading prospects and trading your everyday players.

The "kids" comprise the majority of the lineup, so it's not like a new GM is going to suddenly ship off multiple regulars. It makes no sense.

2008-06-22 09:50:58
84.   underdog
53 Tee-hee.

I predict the Dodgers season concludes with a twist ending!

2008-06-22 09:54:36
85.   ChicagoDodger
83 I agree with you, or should I say you are right, it doesn't make sense.

But, couldn't one say the same thing with regards to free agent contracts? Meaning, the bad free agent contracts comprise the majority of the DL list players or underacheivers, so it's not like a new GM is going to come in and saddle the Dodgers with even more bad free agent contracts. It makes no sense.

2008-06-22 10:07:03
86.   Bumsrap
Logan White is phenomenal at the amateur draft, but as far as we know, he's never done projections and cost-benefit analysis on potential free-agents.

Drafts usually take the best player available regardless of position. Shouldn't free agent signings and trades mostly try to fill position weaknesses first before worrying about best player?

I ask this because the Dodgers and Colletti signed both Pierre and Jones as centerfielders when Kemp was already here, and Ethier available for right field. Additionally, the Dodgers already had a leadoff hitter in Furcal so getting Pierre was merely doubling up at leadoff.

Maybe Colletti didn't want any of the third basemen that were available and he thought he already had a veteran in Nomar and backup in LaRoche. He had veteran Kent at second backed up with Abreu so Colletti had no personal reason to go after a second baseman. That kind of leaves left field as the place to shore up instead of signing Pierre for CF.

Hindsight is usually more accurate than foresight and maybe Kemp was too big of a question mark than he is turning out to be, and Abreu's breakdown was as a big of a surprise as Nomar's wasn't. And, nobody knows what is going to happen with Kuo physically.

The Dodgers need a clutch 4 and 5 hitter and good obp in the first two spots in the lineup. Furcal, Martin, Loney would be great in the 1, 2,and 3 spots but Kent, Jones have not been the answer for the 4 and 5 spots. Kemp is more than an adequate 6 hitter and Ethier and DeWitt/LaRoche are more than adequate in the 7 and 8 spots.

It is not the youth that is hurting this team it is the absence of clutch and consistent and power coming from the 4 and 5 spots and those spots are usually filled with proven and well experienced hitters.

So I would suggest that if the Dodgers make a trade, they should make the unrealistic trade of Jones and Pierre and Kent and Ethier and Penny, and Lowe and get two corner outfielders for the 4 and 5 spots and a second baseman for the 8th spot. Either that or admit that they already have championship level hitters in the 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, and 8 spots and what is missing is a 4 and 5 hitter because Jones and Kent have failed to adequately fill those roles.

2008-06-22 10:08:30
87.   Howard Fox
83 and we know that because....why....??

most people out there, including much of the front office, sees the young regulars as part of the "kids"...therein lies the problem...

but in reality these "kids" are in a middle ground, not seasoned vets, but no longer raw kids...and no one in charge quite knows where they are or where the team is...

2008-06-22 10:08:50
88.   jasonungar07
The problem I have is they announce to the fan base and to their own players (basically) that we can win this season, but we need Furcal, Nomar and Jones to do it (or outside help). Otherwise were not sure were good enough.
2008-06-22 10:11:50
89.   jasonungar07
Kent is OPSing .590 with runners on base and has been our 3 or 4 hole guy all year. JP is .303 OBP as leadoff in 45 games or so. all other reasons aside, u cant win like that.
2008-06-22 10:12:47
90.   KG16
Free agent assessment isn't that hard. You look at where your team has deficiencies, determine whether you can live with an internal solution (if there is an internal solution), figure out how much you're willing to pay a player to fill the deficiency, and then attempt to sign said player for said amount or less.

The trick, particularly for a big market, high payroll team, is the getting the first two steps right.

Anyone who has watched baseball for more than 8 years can figure out how to do this.

As far as Ned getting fired, I'm really don't care at this point. The Dodgers are where they are this season for a whole host of reasons, and removing Ned midseason doesn't really change anything. Besides, even if it makes sense on a baseball level, it doesn't make sense on a business level - going with 3 GMs in 5 years will make the McCourt's look like clowns that no one but the most desperate will want to work for (read potential exodus of current staff).

2008-06-22 10:14:10
91.   Howard Fox
at this point in their development, the kemps, loneys, laroches, etc are not the leading men, at least not yet, and if the Dodgers want to win now, they needed a couple of vets to lead the way

but Coletti has proven a poor judge of free agent talents and abilities (at this point in their careers), and what we have are over the hill guys who see themselves as being still in their prime

2008-06-22 10:19:05
92.   Jon Weisman
Game thread is open.
2008-06-22 10:19:32
93.   jasonungar07
I see it that they see it that way to Howard and to give them credit I agree. To expect alot out of 23-26 year olds is asking alot, we just have failed to put the right pieces around them. You put Sheff and Green circa 2001 in the middle there and things would be pretty rosy. Instead we get what we have gotten. Kent, Nomar, Gonzo, Jones.

The key was JD opting out.

2008-06-22 10:21:06
94.   Howard Fox
exactly....JD opting out is the root cause of much of what our problems are today...
2008-06-22 10:27:03
95.   Andrew Shimmin
79- Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm wearing pants.
2008-06-22 10:29:30
96.   ChicagoDodger
But the Dodgers don't have to replace Colletti. They can quietly remove his powers while letting him keep his role.

The McCourts have already come out publicly stating they "don't make decisions based on immediate, near-term, win-loss results,"

That should be a message to Colletti to leave the core young players alone. It should also be a message to leave alone any of the other good young players (in the minors or on the 40 man roster) for short-term returns.

Essentially that would leave purging the roster of any bad contracts without bringing in any other bad ones. That might mean simply staying the course until the bad contracts are gone with Torre not playing the bad contracts or Colletti keeping them on the DL.

The Dodgers would simply be stating they are a young team building for a bright future. If Coleeti were on board with that, then he stays on. If he's not, then he can quit, and Ng/White can move up. It's not as if the Dodgers were choosing some wild new approach. Just a prudent one.

2008-06-22 11:05:17
97.   OaklandAs
63 See post 11
2008-06-22 12:14:41
98.   herchyzer
73 . I think another GM could have made things much worse than what Colletti has done. Most say that his most egregious decision is Pierre. He could have traded half or more of our young players for Texiera or Santana, or both, and any number of other things.

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