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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

June 24 Game Chat
2008-06-24 18:10
by Jon Weisman
Comments (417)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-06-24 18:20:42
1.   Linkmeister
Presumably neither Norm nor Larry Sherry will make an appearance (on the field).
2008-06-24 18:23:10
2.   Greg Brock
All things considered, good lineup.
2008-06-24 18:25:57
3.   El Lay Dave
Paul Konerko is on the DL, so now I won't know if the fans were going to cheer him, boo him, or be indifferent.
2008-06-24 18:26:29
4.   Lexinthedena
Pierre has a special kind of fairy dust that only works on managers, color commentators, and Bill Plashke.

I'm looking forward to watching Laroche build on his excellent PH at bat last game.

And Pee Wee is in, and his at bats excite me almost as much as the Bison's.

2008-06-24 18:27:51
5.   Eric Enders
I suspect that during this series there will be a lot of griping about the Konerko trade. I'd just like to make the preemptive observation that while it was obviously a bad trade, it's not like Konerko is the greatest thing since sliced bread. His tOPS+ for his career (that is, his OPS+ relative to other first basemen and DHs) is almost exactly 100, meaning he's an exactly average hitter for a first baseman. He's basically a glorified Eric Karros.
2008-06-24 18:32:11
6.   Bob Timmermann
Wild game in Omaha tonight.

Bulldogs up 8-6. The Bulldogs blew a 5-0 lead.

2008-06-24 18:32:18
7.   Linkmeister
And who (besides Karros) would want to glorify Eric Karros?
2008-06-24 18:32:38
8.   Lexinthedena
The Konerko trade wasn't as bad as it now looks. He was awful as a Dodger, and below average as a Red. It took him awhile to become the slugger that he is. The Dodgers were not in a position to be patient with him.
2008-06-24 18:35:49
9.   Eric Enders
8 That I disagree with, though. The Dodgers should always be in a position to be patient with a young player who shows potential. They gave him 151 at bats.
2008-06-24 18:36:15
10.   Greg Brock
The Konerko trade is pretty low on my Dodgers outrage scale.

It certainly ranks below wearing the blue jerseys.

2008-06-24 18:36:19
11.   Andrew Shimmin
Somebody should put a tie on Patrick O'Neal.
2008-06-24 18:36:36
12.   Eric Enders
6 For the benefit of the lazy, which team's actually winning?
2008-06-24 18:37:15
13.   Linkmeister
12 FSU.
2008-06-24 18:37:39
14.   Bluebleeder87
I wonder if Jon is at the game.
2008-06-24 18:38:36
15.   Bob Timmermann
Appropriately, Orel Hershiser is providing analysis for ESPN for these College World Series games.
2008-06-24 18:39:04
16.   Linkmeister
Apparently there's no Gameday equivalent for college baseball. Here's ESPN's running box/play-by-play in text:

2008-06-24 18:39:40
17.   Linkmeister
Why appropriately?
2008-06-24 18:40:53
18.   Greg Brock
17 Bulldogs, man!
2008-06-24 18:40:54
19.   Lexinthedena
9 If your saying that he should have been sent back down, your right.
2008-06-24 18:42:05
20.   Lexinthedena
15 I really feel that Mike Fetters should be involved.
2008-06-24 18:42:39
21.   Bluebleeder87
And Pee Wee is in, and his at bats excite me almost as much as the Bison's.

I like your thoughts on PW Lex, I like how when pitchers pitch him outside he takes the ball that way if pitchers come in on him he pulls it & when they throw it down the middle well the ball might end up half way up the bleachers.

2008-06-24 18:43:10
22.   Alex41592
CSTV has a gametracker that's rather interesting:

2008-06-24 18:43:30
23.   Linkmeister
18 Oh, man. I'm embarrassed.
2008-06-24 18:45:18
24.   Bob Timmermann
I was trying to Tinyurl GameTracker.

It's a little balky. Especially when it gets to the end of the game.

2008-06-24 18:45:47
25.   Eric Enders
15 I was actually wondering about that last night.
2008-06-24 18:46:53
26.   Bob Timmermann
I think Linkmeister has no love for the WAC unless it's his beloved 'Bows.
2008-06-24 18:47:00
27.   Bluebleeder87
I've heard Konerko has a Robin Ventura like presence in the clubhouse.
2008-06-24 18:47:15
28.   bigcpa
Career HR:

Konerko 284

Karros 284

2008-06-24 18:48:17
29.   Greg Brock
The Adam Dunn/JP Ricciardi fracas gets weirder and weirder:

2008-06-24 18:49:13
30.   Bluebleeder87
15 25

Hershiser has that IT as a broadcaster imo.

2008-06-24 18:50:06
31.   Bluebleeder87

apparently they are SABR clones of some kind.

2008-06-24 18:50:25
32.   scareduck
6 - Bulldogs vs. Bulldogs makes for an interesting story, but a lousy broadcast.
2008-06-24 18:51:57
33.   Linkmeister
26 Not quite true, although rooting for Fresno State does take some heavy swallowing.
2008-06-24 18:52:20
34.   68elcamino427
Dunn Sterling all over again! (bad, bad Clippers joke)
2008-06-24 18:53:42
35.   Eric Enders
The CSTV gametracker is pretty cool, actually. It's like a little game of RBI Baseball.
2008-06-24 18:54:45
36.   overkill94
13 Actually, it's CSUF. They're part of the Cal State system! (not to be confused with Cal-State Fullerton)
2008-06-24 18:55:29
37.   Lexinthedena

2008-06-24 18:55:53
38.   Eric Enders
So you're also asking me to call SDSU, CSUSD instead?
2008-06-24 18:57:30
39.   Alex41592
Red Sox are rallying with three straight singles and it's 4-2 AZ two on and nobody out for J.D Drew Bot 8 with Qualls pitching.
2008-06-24 18:59:42
40.   Bob Timmermann
San Diego State University's official name is San Diego State University.
2008-06-24 18:59:52
41.   Greg Brock
37 I'm going to guess Mets/Sox '86 on RBI Baseball...



2008-06-24 19:00:08
42.   Alex41592
Drew strikes out. One away for Manny.
2008-06-24 19:00:44
43.   berkowit28
To those who were wondering at my ignorance of Mark Buehrle and - correctly surmising that I am an "NL only" guy - yeah, that's basically right. I've really only been following MLB for just under 3 seasons now - staring July 2006 - basically by following almost all Dodgers games and whatever else I pick up along the way.

Since the Dodgers don't play outside the NL much, my AL awareness is basically confined to bits and pieces of Red Sox, Yankees and Angels, also Tigers a bit, as they get most exposure on ESPN, post-season, etc. As the Dodgers gradually work their way around interleague play (so just 2 seasons for me), I occasionally glean the odd smattering - A's whatever. I claim complete ignorance of the Texas Rangers, for example, aside from Gagne's short time there. I'm not in a big hurry to learn more about them just yet, either. ;-)

2008-06-24 19:02:55
44.   Alex41592
Msnny grounds to third. Two outs and runners at 2nd and 3rd for Lowell.
2008-06-24 19:03:18
45.   Bob Timmermann
If you want to fit in with the hip DT crowd, you need to know who all the Rays players are.
2008-06-24 19:04:05
46.   68elcamino427
Looking at tonight's lineup another way.


2008-06-24 19:04:24
47.   Alex41592
Lowell OFF THE MONSTER! 2 run double and the Red Sox tie it up at four in the eighth.
2008-06-24 19:05:35
48.   Alex41592
Varitek singles in Lowell! Red Sox 5 D'Backs 4! Papelbon warming up!
2008-06-24 19:07:43
49.   Greg Brock
43 If it makes you feel better, I'm pretty convinced the Rangers and Orioles are the same team.

The run and switch and when nobody is looking.

2008-06-24 19:07:54
50.   Alex41592
Moss singles to right. Bob Melvin has stayed with Qualls throughout this rally. Until now.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-06-24 19:09:08
51.   Bob Timmermann
In August, I'm going to go see the Rangers play the Orioles.

I'll take pictures to help you out.

2008-06-24 19:10:19
52.   Bluebleeder87

I just checked & apparently Mookie Wilson was the Juan Pierre of that era except Mookie had some pop hitting as many as 10 one year.

Mookie's best OBP year was 1987 when he had a whopping 359 OB% his worst was 1991 with a 277 OBP.

2008-06-24 19:11:08
53.   Alex41592
Papelbon is in to face Snyder, Byrnes and Drew in the ninth. 5-4 Sox.
2008-06-24 19:11:33
54.   StolenMonkey86
The Drew Bros are a combined 0-8 tonight in Boston.
2008-06-24 19:16:21
55.   Bluebleeder87
A.J. Pierzynski is the anti Russell.
2008-06-24 19:17:52
56.   KG16
Mr. Lowe seems to be channeling Mr. Penny.
2008-06-24 19:17:58
57.   Bluebleeder87
mean while at Dodger Stadium, sigh.
2008-06-24 19:18:36
58.   StolenMonkey86
how about that infield defense
2008-06-24 19:19:03
59.   Bluebleeder87
D-Lowe needs to channel that sinker & get a DP.
2008-06-24 19:19:42
60.   StolenMonkey86
what happened to Dye's PA?
2008-06-24 19:20:01
61.   KG16
gameday has decided that Mr. Dye does not deserve to be in the game any more.
2008-06-24 19:21:18
62.   KG16
well at least only one runner advanced.
2008-06-24 19:21:29
63.   StolenMonkey86
how did JP's throw look on that one?
2008-06-24 19:21:40
64.   Eric Enders
37 Mookie played in an era of less hitting, and he also played in a pitcher-friendly park, so his numbers in context are, alas, light years better than Pierre's. However, he was also nowhere near as good as Mets fans thought he was.
2008-06-24 19:22:57
65.   Bluebleeder87
just checked Buehrle's splits & he is pretty consistent home & away plus he's been lights out his last 2 starts, hopefully we get to him quick.
2008-06-24 19:24:15
66.   Bluebleeder87
if anything at least this ump has a nice wide strike zone, works perfect for D-Lowe.
2008-06-24 19:25:23
67.   Bluebleeder87
in honor of who we are playing today, my pick to click tonight is Matt Kemp & or Russell Martin.
2008-06-24 19:25:41
68.   Indiana Jon
Direct quote from the White Sox announcer:

"You know what I like about Juan Pierre? Everything."

The other announcers reply:

"I agree."

2008-06-24 19:26:27
69.   Bob Timmermann
I'm guessing that the first announcer was Ken Harrelson and the second was Darrin Jackson.
2008-06-24 19:27:35
70.   Bluebleeder87
seriously man, if your a pitcher you gotta love this ump.
2008-06-24 19:28:11
71.   Indiana Jon
69 I wish his name was Kenny Williams, then maybe we could work something out.
2008-06-24 19:31:54
72.   Icaros
You know what I like about bedbugs? Everything.
2008-06-24 19:32:36
73.   Indiana Jon
72 I agree.
2008-06-24 19:33:16
74.   Bluebleeder87
at least Buehrle didn't take D-Lowe deep.
2008-06-24 19:34:34
75.   Greg Brock
I've got an Earl Weaver audio file that they should listen to.

But I'm not posting it here!

2008-06-24 19:35:20
76.   Bluebleeder87
home runs from apposing AL pitchers shouldn't be allowed...
2008-06-24 19:36:29
77.   Indiana Jon
76 I think we should OK the grand slams.
2008-06-24 19:41:42
78.   68elcamino427
Hey everybody, Andy's up!
2008-06-24 19:42:46
79.   Bluebleeder87
I gotta tell you guys man, when I was at the game the other day I was kind of in shock at how tall Loney is.

I was like dang man...

2008-06-24 19:43:16
80.   Bob Timmermann
I'm taller than James Loney.
2008-06-24 19:44:16
81.   Lexinthedena
I'm taller than Delwyn Young.
2008-06-24 19:44:22
82.   scareduck
76 - especially when they hit them to the apposite field.
2008-06-24 19:44:35
83.   bhsportsguy
78 Bad at bat by Andy, 2-0 count, you cannot hit into a room service double play on that pitch.
2008-06-24 19:46:27
84.   berkowit28
They're just a good team. They do things right - put together hits to get runs, don't make dumb fielding errors, pitch well. They're a better team.
2008-06-24 19:46:31
85.   68elcamino427
I was taller than James Loney, until probably 1997 or so.
2008-06-24 19:47:04
86.   StolenMonkey86
I'm taller than Muggsy Bogues.
2008-06-24 19:47:24
87.   scareduck
70 - That's no umpire, that's Doug Eddings!
2008-06-24 19:48:44
88.   scareduck
Nice 1-2-3 frame by Lowe.
2008-06-24 19:48:44
89.   kinbote
I think the Mets should fire their manager after losing 11-0 to the M's tonight. Ugh.
2008-06-24 19:49:01
90.   overkill94
Loney has about an inch on me. I have the picture to prove it!
2008-06-24 19:49:58
91.   berkowit28
Well, if Lowe can keep that up, we've got half a chance, if we could get two or three hits in an inning. A big if.
2008-06-24 19:50:12
92.   JoeyP
This could be the quickest game of the season.
2008-06-24 19:50:27
93.   Gagne55
I'm taller than Earl Boykins. Thats about it as far as proffesional athletes go. I'm about even with Eckstein.
2008-06-24 19:50:39
94.   StolenMonkey86
88 - Derek Lowe is about a foot taller than I am.
2008-06-24 19:52:06
95.   Bob Timmermann
Looks like if there's a DT basketball game, I'm posting up just about everyone.

This would presume that I had any appreciable skill at basketball.

I don't really have any appreciable athletic skills at anything.

2008-06-24 19:52:09
96.   68elcamino427
That is Angel-Pierre home run power right there.
2008-06-24 19:52:44
97.   kinbote

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss . . .

2008-06-24 19:54:08
98.   LogikReader

A 15 second at bat!

2008-06-24 19:55:28
99.   sporky
94 Same here.
2008-06-24 19:55:48
100.   scareduck
89 - a more reasonable approach would be firing Oliver Perez and finding a scrub to take his place in the rotation.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-06-24 19:55:49
101.   Alex41592
Steiner takes over on radio at 7:55, wow.
2008-06-24 19:56:30
102.   Bluebleeder87
80 81

I'm shorter then both. I'm more in the David Eckstein mold.

my buddy Frank though, his brother is 6'7 6'7!!

2008-06-24 19:56:36
103.   scareduck
99 - that would make you tallish for a girl, yes?
2008-06-24 19:56:52
104.   Bob Timmermann
And they're still in the 7th in Omaha!

The Bulldogs are up by a TD and a PAT.

2008-06-24 19:57:51
105.   scareduck
Randy Johnson is 11 inches taller and 13 days older than me.
2008-06-24 19:57:57
106.   LogikReader
Now, imagine if the Dodger game ended before that CWS game. That would be embarrassing (for the CWS)
2008-06-24 19:58:40
107.   overkill94
Nice 8-hopper to 2B there Slappy
2008-06-24 19:58:42
108.   Bluebleeder87
I'm actually taller then Eckstein!!
2008-06-24 19:58:44
109.   LogikReader

Check that, I forgot who was pitching on the Dodgers.

This game is just so fantastic.

2008-06-24 19:59:04
110.   scareduck
Who was it that was saying Pierre's arm in left doesn't matter? Gah.
2008-06-24 19:59:17
111.   Bob Timmermann
You should have tried watching some of the early round games between UCLA and Fullerton.

Those were excruciatingly long.

2008-06-24 19:59:39
112.   scareduck
Nice play, Andy!
2008-06-24 19:59:49
113.   overkill94
Hell of a plate block by the GG there
2008-06-24 20:00:48
114.   sporky
103 I grew a foot in high school. That hurt.

Broxton weighs more than twice as much as I do. That's one hefty dude.

2008-06-24 20:01:00
115.   LogikReader
Andy made a nice play but Russell Martin did a great job blocking the plate too. That was a nice tag team play :-)


Goodness, the White Sox are trying to get the Dodgers back into the game!

2008-06-24 20:01:48
116.   Icaros
I grew a foot in high school. That hurt.

Out of which leg?

2008-06-24 20:02:17
117.   Bluebleeder87
Rob are you indifferent about Cabrera leaving the Halos? I think he's a really good ball player, I don't really know his numbers though.
2008-06-24 20:03:02
118.   LogikReader
That was some good defense for the Dodgers this inning. Anyone checking out the Cubs game on EI? This is a major, MAJOR comeback. Two on, nobody out, 9th inning. Cubs fought from down 7-1 and now are down only 7-5!
2008-06-24 20:03:32
119.   LogikReader
Anybody got George Sherrill on their fantasy team?
2008-06-24 20:04:15
120.   silverwidow
Kyle Russell has THREE walks tonight.
2008-06-24 20:04:48
121.   silverwidow
120 Pitchers are just scared of him now.
2008-06-24 20:05:16
122.   Alex41592
119 - ME! ME!
2008-06-24 20:06:48
123.   Bluebleeder87

I don't like WGN's promotion style so I'm kind of on strike against them.

2008-06-24 20:08:07
124.   LogikReader

Is the game on WGN too? I wish I had that channel here.

2008-06-24 20:08:32
125.   bhsportsguy
121 In the Rookie leagues? I doubt that.
2008-06-24 20:09:00
126.   Alex41592
Dodgers have something going here for the red hot Loney.
2008-06-24 20:09:26
127.   sporky
116 I walked into that one, didn't I...
2008-06-24 20:09:30
128.   LogikReader
Alex, lemme tell ya, Sherrill just got two HUGE strikeouts just now with the bases loaded. 2 outs still, bottom of the 9th, Cubs still alive...
2008-06-24 20:09:54
129.   Alex41592
Well forget that.
2008-06-24 20:09:54
130.   sporky
Does Loney still lead the league in GIDPs?
2008-06-24 20:10:03
131.   Bluebleeder87
you can't blame Loney there, I mean he scorched it.
2008-06-24 20:10:35
132.   bhsportsguy
126 Yep, another double play.
2008-06-24 20:11:28
133.   StolenMonkey86
I'm 36 years younger than Grady Little, same birthday.
2008-06-24 20:11:28
134.   LogikReader

Sherrill saves it! Strikes out the side!!!!

Now back to the Dodgers game.

2008-06-24 20:12:22
135.   silverwidow
125 I'm not doubting it. This guy is far too good for Rookie ball and he's probably getting pitched around.
2008-06-24 20:12:23
136.   Alex41592
128 - Wow. 3 huge strikeouts with the bases loaded and nobody out to end the Cubs 14 game home winning streak.
2008-06-24 20:14:45
137.   Alex41592
Halfway through in 1:04.
2008-06-24 20:14:55
138.   sporky
Halfway through the game in 70+ minutes...
2008-06-24 20:15:07
139.   JoeyP
A guy like Buerhle would win multiple Cy Youngs if he pitched in San Diego.
2008-06-24 20:17:00
140.   JoeyP
Real bad AB there by LaRoche---1st pitch hackin.
2008-06-24 20:17:40
141.   Alex41592
2008-06-24 20:17:42
142.   sporky
2008-06-24 20:17:45
143.   JoeyP
2008-06-24 20:17:46
144.   StolenMonkey86
140 - not what you'd expect from him
2008-06-24 20:18:02
145.   Bluebleeder87
Pee-Wee is his nick don't wear it out! woot!!!
2008-06-24 20:18:16
146.   Greg Brock
Yes sir!

Now to the bench with you!

2008-06-24 20:18:29
147.   LogikReader
Now you can put Pee Wee on the board!!!


2008-06-24 20:18:29
148.   MC Safety
And Pee Wee hits it out!- Vin
2008-06-24 20:18:31
149.   bhsportsguy
Time for a Sporky squeel
2008-06-24 20:20:26
150.   OhioBlues12
Playing Pee Wee everyday would mean quite a bit for this team.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-06-24 20:20:43
151.   Bluebleeder87
checking B-R.Com, Ethier has been slumping the past 28 days actually with a really but BA/OBP/SLG also, man, hopefully he'll bounce back.
2008-06-24 20:20:58
152.   LogikReader
First thing I thought when Pee Wee hit it out:

"Why can't we use THIS guy in left field or 2B?"

Nahh... it's too obvious, isn't it?

2008-06-24 20:21:00
153.   StolenMonkey86
I like how that homer was presented by state farm.
2008-06-24 20:21:05
154.   sporky
149 That's what I meant to say in 142 :)
2008-06-24 20:23:13
155.   Lexinthedena
I have NO doubt that as it stands now Pee Wee would put up better numbers over a full season than any of the other Dodger outfielders .
2008-06-24 20:23:40
156.   Greg Brock
152 No rings. No MVP's. Hasn't proven himself. Not consistent.

Circle whichever one you'd like.

2008-06-24 20:24:20
157.   bhsportsguy
152 Outfield maybe, I think Kent is beginning to hit. And he probably making a case to platoon with Ethier now.
2008-06-24 20:26:14
158.   sporky
When Furcal and Jones return, who'll get sent down/cut? Berroa and Maza? Sweeney?
2008-06-24 20:26:43
159.   Alex41592
And we just keep on moving along.
2008-06-24 20:27:20
160.   JoeyP
Platoon with Ethier and Pierre.

Ethier sits vs lefties.
Juan vs righties.

Pee Wee everyday.

2008-06-24 20:27:22
161.   Bluebleeder87
looks like D-Lowe has settled down some, I hope we score a few more runs though.
2008-06-24 20:28:28
162.   Greg Brock
158 I assume Maza down (don't need him with Young and Berroa), Sweeney DFA.
2008-06-24 20:30:17
163.   JoeyP
Kemp should steal 2nd.
AJ cant throw anyone out.
2008-06-24 20:30:19
164.   sporky
2008-06-24 20:30:34
165.   bhsportsguy
That was just a showcase dive, never had a shot at the ball.
2008-06-24 20:30:38
166.   Alex41592
I leave the room for a second and Pierre is out and Kemp is on first.
2008-06-24 20:31:47
167.   JoeyP
Great catch, but horrible baserunning from Kemp. Ugh.
2008-06-24 20:31:53
168.   Greg Brock
165 Eric Byrnes approves.

Just kidding, Shimmin.

2008-06-24 20:31:53
169.   MonkeyBlue
Kemp.... so young
2008-06-24 20:32:40
170.   bhsportsguy
169 Its now beyond 5 times.
2008-06-24 20:33:11
171.   sporky
169 Sweeney resents that comment.
2008-06-24 20:33:20
172.   Bluebleeder87
Pierre gets upset but why should he if he swings at the first pitch & isn't selective, I don't get him man.
2008-06-24 20:35:46
173.   Bluebleeder87
from what I remember the White Sox have a really good bullpen I hope we get to the ChiSox pitcher pronto!
2008-06-24 20:36:58
174.   underdog
Very delayed reaction, but...

Pee Wee!!

(I was on the phone when he hit his dinger.)

Now if only the rest of the offense could come alive. Otherwise another good starting pitching performance wasted.


Pee Wee!

2008-06-24 20:37:32
175.   bhsportsguy
Beer sales are about to stop. They better hope for extra innings to sell more food.
2008-06-24 20:37:37
176.   Lexinthedena
Pierre is an oppressor. Keeps the Dodgers and their fans down!

My new nickname for Pierre will be "The Tyrant".

2008-06-24 20:37:42
177.   sporky
From the PE blog:

>>Third baseman Blake DeWitt, who was the NL Rookie of the Month in May, has had a horrid June thus far, hitting just .185 with no runs batted in so far this month.

Manager Joe Torre said a large reason for that is that DeWitt has not been using the opposite field, something he did so well during the first two months of the season.

"Right now, he has absolutely no patience at the plate," Torre said. "He's swinging as soon as the ball comes out of the pitchers hand."<<

2008-06-24 20:37:57
178.   StolenMonkey86
8 Ks for Lowe through 7. Someone give the man a lead.
2008-06-24 20:39:23
179.   StolenMonkey86
Loney-LaRoche-Young due up. Heart of the order.
2008-06-24 20:40:20
180.   Greg Brock
Can we find out Pitches per PA from somewhere? Just in June, I mean.

I'd like to see if that is accurate.

2008-06-24 20:41:26
181.   LogikReader
Tonight, I don't think anyone has patience at the plate. 6 pitches for 3 at bats in the 7th, so far.
2008-06-24 20:41:44
182.   Bluebleeder87
it will look like a line drive tomorrow.
2008-06-24 20:42:02
183.   underdog
Tough going against Buehrle, too.

We'll take that infield hit to bring Pee Wee up.

2008-06-24 20:42:40
184.   LogikReader
They just have to let Burhle make some more pitches. It can be done!
2008-06-24 20:42:45
185.   underdog
"Delwyn Young can flat out hit." - Vin.
2008-06-24 20:43:37
186.   Greg Brock
181 Dude throws a lot of strikes.
2008-06-24 20:44:53
187.   underdog

Well, this is quite a pitcher's duel. Not much more to say than that.

2008-06-24 20:45:08
188.   MyTummyHurts

Mark buehrle's pitches look nice a juicy...

2008-06-24 20:45:10
189.   LogikReader
Despite the groundout, that was a good at bat for Delwyn Young.

Did we decide on a moniker for Andy LaRoche? I'd go with "the Kid" or "the Karate Kid" based on his at bat song.

2008-06-24 20:45:44
190.   StolenMonkey86
3.87 P/PA for DeWitt on the year. Swinging at 42.7% of pitches.

Pierre on the year, at 3.81, up from 3.41 last year. Similar swing percentage.

Kent is slightly down to 3.39 from 3.46 last year. His swing percentage is up from 46.8% to 51.2%.

2008-06-24 20:46:18
191.   underdog
If I have to see one more of those poorly made MLBTV ads with baseball players who can barely read cue cards, I may take a hostage.
2008-06-24 20:47:22
192.   LogikReader
The CWS game is now over! I lost track of when it ended, but the Dodger game is now in the 8th inning.
2008-06-24 20:47:22
193.   bhsportsguy
180 He is seeing less pitches, I mean its a pretty small difference but here is how it breaks out.

March and April: 3.8
May: 3.99
June: 3.7

2008-06-24 20:47:59
194.   Bluebleeder87

how does "La Solucion" sound? it's spanish for "The Solution" knowing La Roche's dad was half mexican & all.

2008-06-24 20:49:55
195.   Alex41592
Well this game is over because Dye just put one, well two on the board.
2008-06-24 20:50:28
196.   underdog


Guess the game's over now. :-/

2008-06-24 20:50:50
197.   Bluebleeder87
Jermaine Dye is just a great hitter. The pitch stayed up though.
2008-06-24 20:51:10
198.   LogikReader
I don't know where Xei is, but with our "power" the win expectancy is probably -50% right now
2008-06-24 20:51:21
199.   Greg Brock
190 193

Thanks guys.

2008-06-24 20:52:26
200.   LogikReader
Are we ever going to win a series? The Reds series don't count.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-06-24 20:53:09
201.   LogikReader

I mean the Rockies and Padres will land on the schedule eventually, but still, this is something else.

2008-06-24 20:53:28
202.   underdog
DLowe just hit his expiration date.

Ah well. Bummer.

And Andy Kaufman's coming out of the bullpen!

2008-06-24 20:55:03
203.   Greg Brock
200 If it makes you feel better, the Dodgers aren't this bad.

I mean, they aren't good or anything, but they're comfortably average.

2008-06-24 20:56:52
204.   sporky
What alert is this?
2008-06-24 20:57:04
205.   jasonungar07
u guys don't have faith in Berrora, Sweeney and Pierre to get something going? what is wrong with you people.
2008-06-24 20:57:33
206.   Bob Timmermann
Orange alert for DeWayne Wise!
2008-06-24 20:57:40
207.   bhsportsguy
And why is Young a player without a position?
2008-06-24 20:57:47
208.   underdog
200 Sure does feel hopeless in that regard doesn't it? But yes, we will win a non-Reds series. Hopefully we won't have to wait til Furcal is back to see that. Or until I have grandchildren.
2008-06-24 20:58:42
209.   LogikReader

Yep, I am back to "not minding Ned Colletti's re-assignment."

2008-06-24 20:58:44
210.   underdog
Well, this inning could have gone better.



What else is on TV?

2008-06-24 20:59:26
211.   MollyKnight
2008-06-24 21:01:30
212.   Jon Weisman
199 - "The Reds series don't count."

I keep seeing this. I get why it's being said, but considering that the Reds have basically the same record as us, why should we be snobbish? They all count. I don't see the teams beating us throwing those back.

2008-06-24 21:01:31
213.   LogikReader
I don't post here on game nights as much, but really, why aren't the fans and the media more up in arms about this team? One of the bad side effects of the Lakers success is that the Dodgers are allowed to underachieve for 20 years and get away with it.

I'm sure there is criticism, but not in the right direction. I.e. why criticize kids when there are plenty of awful signings that are ripe for the taking (including all of Jason Ungar's last post)?

2008-06-24 21:01:37
214.   berkowit28
203 The White Sox are avoid team. The Dodgers are a mediocre team. Some promising players, that's all.
2008-06-24 21:03:08
215.   underdog
This is it Sweeney. This is your last chance. If you do nothing here, you're voted off the island.


2008-06-24 21:03:14
216.   berkowit28
214 avoid = a good
2008-06-24 21:03:18
217.   LogikReader

By fans and media, I meant the non-DT crowd.

2008-06-24 21:03:19
218.   bhsportsguy
209 Yep its Ned's fault that the young guys can't play consistently, take bad at-bats, make base-running errors, etc.

At some point, regardless of who is on the DL and who is not playing well, this core group is going to have to start stringing together some good games instead of just showing flashes of what they might turn out to be.

Now, that might not be this year but eventually either they start doing it or you look elsewhere.

2008-06-24 21:03:20
219.   Bluebleeder87

We disparately need Furcal back he's our only hope.

2008-06-24 21:03:30
220.   Bob Timmermann
The Yankees lost 2 of 3 to the Reds.
2008-06-24 21:04:56
221.   underdog
212 I tried correcting him on that once too, but {sniff} was ignored. I think the point is... why can't we seem to win series from anyone else?

Okay, Sweeney, you're done.

At least until tomorrow night when you're dragged back out to strike out again.

2008-06-24 21:05:39
222.   OhioBlues12
212 - I don't think it has to do with the Reds not being a worthy opponent. It is more directed at the fact that they seem to bring out the best in us or we match up well against them or we just have their number. Playing against the Reds doesn't seem to truly reflect the ability of this team.
2008-06-24 21:06:26
223.   underdog
He looked safe there, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.

219 Furcal = Obi Wan.

2008-06-24 21:07:50
224.   Greg Brock
214 Kemp, Loney, and Martin are all top third in the NL by position. They're doing it.

Pitching's good, bullpen is good, young players are good, and the team is performing under win expectancy. There is a lot to like.

They just don't have enough pop. Like the past ten years.

2008-06-24 21:08:08
225.   LogikReader
221 , 222

I tend to agree. Basically I look at the Reds the way I see the Padres, but in reverse.

The Padres beat the Dodgers quite a bit. Does that definitively mean the Padres are that much better than the Dodgers? Not really. So how they play against SD or CIN doesn't reflect the Dodgers on the whole.

2008-06-24 21:08:34
226.   Bluebleeder87
to be honest the White Sox COULD HAVE scored many more runs in the first few innings.
2008-06-24 21:08:56
227.   OhioBlues12
Berroa/Sweeney/Pierre . . . . That is twice that Berroa has led off an inning, so that is basically two innings we have given away.
2008-06-24 21:08:56
228.   Bluebleeder87
I like watching Troncoso pitch, o.k. leave me alone!!
2008-06-24 21:09:41
229.   Bluebleeder87
I wonder why they don't use him as a starter, I don't know I think the dude rocks.
2008-06-24 21:09:43
230.   KG16
213 - I think the Dodgers are allowed to underachieve because they are the Dodgers, the franchise that gave us "Wait 'til next year".

But more than that, I think the Fox era hurt more than anything because that's where the Dodgers lost their way and McCourt still hasn't figured it out yet.

I think there is a feeling that the Dodgers are trying to rediscover who they are as an organization. And so most people cut them some slack. Comparing them to the Lakers really isn't fair because the Lakers' leadership has remained consistent and maintained a philosophy. Plus, it's easier to rebuild/reload in basketball than it is in baseball.

2008-06-24 21:09:48
231.   underdog
217 Haven't read any of the other Dodger related boards lately, I take it?
2008-06-24 21:10:17
232.   underdog
Good to see Tron-Tron back and looking solid.
2008-06-24 21:10:54
233.   bhsportsguy
Opposing starting pitchers on this homestand have gone at least 7 innings in each game and the Dodgers have scored 6 runs. They have done it by pitching strikes and not allowing the Dodgers to work the count. In fact the 4 run outburst occurred on 12 pitches, after that the Dodgers went scoreless for over 12 innings until Young's home run.
2008-06-24 21:11:13
234.   adrian beltre
nice inning by troncoso
2008-06-24 21:11:13
235.   Bluebleeder87
I don't think we've come back from a 5 run deficit this year but tonight is the night, I feel it.
2008-06-24 21:12:54
236.   underdog
It's really pretty simple, too. What Greg said in 224 is right on. And then they just seriously have missed Furcal. There's no disputing that. Now good teams shouldn't be so dependent on one player, but the Dodgers are an average team that can be good with one spark plug type player like Furcal. So honestly, the team could continue to tread water and then heat up in July and leap into first place. So, there you go.
2008-06-24 21:14:24
237.   Bluebleeder87
it's like everything is going right for the other team & everything goes wrong for the bums.
2008-06-24 21:14:46
238.   underdog
Cabrera's going on my single night Obelisk.
2008-06-24 21:15:16
239.   jasonungar07
I do think it is Ned's fault for that stuff apparently being the crutch for our failure for two straight years, yes.

If we had real players around these younger folks that produced then maybe these kids wouldn't feel as if they had to carry the team. They all can see that our leadoff hitter and 3 hole hitting veteran can get it done to take off some pressure. And with all the talk allowed in the media about how we will be a good team once the calvary returns no wonder they are pressing. But of course they are pros and should be better than that.

You just replace the one hitter with anyone who can get on base above .295 and our 3/4 hitters with a couple of good solid consistent bats and were a good team.

2008-06-24 21:15:57
240.   Alex41592
2:04 game. Quick and painless.
2008-06-24 21:15:58
241.   Physics DR
We are two outs from being just 2.5 games ahead of the Giants.

THat would hurt.

2008-06-24 21:16:01
242.   sporky
At least it was a quick game.
2008-06-24 21:16:21
243.   Bluebleeder87
2008-06-24 21:16:44
244.   still bevens
The Dodgers are totally the slumpbusters of MLB.
2008-06-24 21:16:52
245.   KG16
someone explain to me how missing the lead off hitter affects the guys batting 5-6-7. Really. I get how it could affect the 2-3-4 hitters - they get to see the pitcher from the stretch, the defense shifts, chances for RBIs. I can see how it might, and I stress might, affect the 8-9 hitters, if they can get on base and he can drive them in, but aren't these things really at the margins? Maybe one PA per game?

It's not like losing a point guard in basketball or a running back in football, it's one guy who gets 5-6 PAs per game.

2008-06-24 21:17:27
246.   scooplew
Bulletin: Mark Sweeney is closing in on historic territory: worst-ever batting average by a non-pitcher with at least 50 at bats in one season in L.A. Dodgers history. The three lowest ever:

1. Billy Grabarkewitz (1969) -- .092 (6 for 65)
2. Mark Sweeney (2008) -- .103 (6 for 58)
3. Milt Thompson (1996) -- .118 (6 for 51)

Can he do it?
(Adapted from a prior posting)

2008-06-24 21:19:12
247.   Bluebleeder87
I'm kind of on a coma this year regarding my beloved Dodgers, maybe I'm doing it subconsciously because I know there not gonna make it this year but they just have so much promise with pitching & young talent I can't get to upset, you know.
2008-06-24 21:19:27
248.   OhioBlues12
246 - Truly pathetic and even worse he is our primary option off the bench.
2008-06-24 21:19:51
249.   Bluebleeder87
2 years ago I would have raised hell...
2008-06-24 21:20:15
250.   Greg Brock
245 I agree that the Furcal thing is a bit of a red herring, but if he plays, Berroa or Maza don't, other players drop down, better chance of scoring early in games.

You're right, though.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-06-24 21:20:37
251.   bhsportsguy
245 The same way that apparently Sweeney's presence is costing the team the pennant.
2008-06-24 21:20:45
252.   Zak
If it helps, John Fogerty is singing "Lodi" on MHD. Not sure if anyone here is a fan.
2008-06-24 21:21:20
253.   underdog
245 If you're talking about Furcal, he gets on base at a higher rate than Pierre, he slugs much better (he even, gasp! hits home runs on occasion), and yes, if the other guys are hitting at all, he'll score some runs. So of course other guys have to do their share, or it won't matter that much, but Furcal makes things happen, he gets on base, he hits with some power, certainly more than Pierre. And then there's the less measurable energy he brings to games, too. I know that's more of a subjective thing but the team seems more lifeless without him, too.
2008-06-24 21:21:29
254.   Bluebleeder87
we haven't even had one of those really cool come from behind wins this year, like the one we had against the cubbies last year.
2008-06-24 21:21:44
255.   LogikReader
Well, it was Buerhle, and he pitched very well tonight.

Tomorrow we'll get to see the rest of the Sox rotation and give it another go! There's still two more games left vs Chicago.

2008-06-24 21:23:08
256.   das411
Yo Zappala, just for the record somebody on this blog was indeed there for K-Rod's 30th save, and is expecting him to put up at least 60. Anything less will be a disappointment!

...but is everybody else here off partying like it's 1959?

2008-06-24 21:23:11
257.   underdog
251 If anyone thinks that then they're being silly, but it would be nice to have a pinch hitter who we could have confidence wasn't going to do something other than nothing every time he comes up to bat. No, that doesn't make a big difference in the Dodgers collective record, but here and there it adds up. A PH who gets on base in some way would be nice.
2008-06-24 21:23:24
258.   bhsportsguy
The first 14 games without Furcal the team went 7-7, since then I believe they are now 9-20.
2008-06-24 21:23:27
259.   Bob Timmermann
Well, things have gotten bad and things have gotten worse, but I already know the tune.

Man, I don't want to get stuck in Lodi.

2008-06-24 21:23:38
260.   Greg Brock
251 The continued use of Sweeney represents more of a mindset that irks. The reliable vet that isn't.

He also has an opinion, which bothers me.

2008-06-24 21:24:24
261.   underdog
Oh well. Another day, another chance tomorrow. Backatcha then.
2008-06-24 21:25:48
262.   Johnny Nucleo
246 If .200 is the Mendoza line, is .100 the Sweeney line?
To be fair, there's no way he's genuinely a .100 hitter. Small sample size alert.
2008-06-24 21:26:17
263.   Bluebleeder87
it's gonna be a tough go at it with the Halos coming to town also, I'm gonna probably end up going & spending my money too.
2008-06-24 21:27:47
264.   Jon Weisman
225 - Well, okay, but I don't recall ever hearing anyone say that the Padres series don't count. When the Cardinals kept sweeping the Dodgers, did people write that off as if it didn't matter. Not in the slightest.

Things are rough enough without saying that basically, we haven't won a series in ages, when we have. Saying "the Reds series don't count" strikes me as going out of one's way to be negative.

2008-06-24 21:28:42
265.   scooplew
What did we expect? We were overdue for a game in which we scored one run or were shut out. We had gone a remarkable eight straight games without either occurrence.
2008-06-24 21:29:09
266.   Bluebleeder87
Dye about watching Burhle pitch "It gets boring"

He got you the W didn't he, geez!!

2008-06-24 21:29:41
267.   KG16
258 - post hoc ergo propter hoc?

Furcal is not the difference between winning the World Series and being the Marlins. And if he is, then this team is seriously flawed.

2008-06-24 21:31:44
268.   berkowit28
237 Nonsense. Lots went wrong for the White Six, and they still came back and won it. They are a better team.
2008-06-24 21:32:11
269.   Bob Timmermann
If the Dodgers were as good as the Marlins this year, I'd be very happy.
2008-06-24 21:32:24
270.   LogikReader

Yeah. It's just been a rough month. You add up the Dodgers and Lakers month together, and it's a whole lot of hurt. Even the best teams will have rough months, and best of all, there's still three entire months to go after June.

2008-06-24 21:32:52
271.   KG16
269 - sorry, make that the Pirates
2008-06-24 21:32:58
272.   Greg Brock
The Marlins are good.
2008-06-24 21:35:27
273.   scooplew
The struggles of the Dodgers remind me of the first line of Leo Tolstoy's "Anna Karenina," which is, "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." Each bad baseball team has unique woes; teams playing well seem to show very similar traits with one another.
2008-06-24 21:36:35
274.   JoeyP
Just a bad team man.
2008-06-24 21:37:56
275.   Bluebleeder87
all that said we're only what?? 4 games back, man, our division is blushingly bad man...
2008-06-24 21:37:58
276.   OhioBlues12
267 - The thing with Furcal is that he is really the closest thing that we have to an impact player. Kent is firmly in decline and Jones may be as well. Martin is getting really close to being that player and the rest of the kids are not close yet. This team's problem is that we don't have that one player that can do something to change a game or single-handedly win a close game when the rest of the team struggles. If everyone in the lineup doesn't play well every game then we are going to struggle as we have seen.
2008-06-24 21:38:19
277.   underdog
273 Well said.

Hopefully after this month the Dodgers will re-enact Tolstoy's final novel, "Resurrection."

2008-06-24 21:40:14
278.   Bluebleeder87
hopefully when Kuroda & Penny come back (nicely rested) we will make a serious run at it.

not to mentioned Furcal.

2008-06-24 21:41:07
279.   sporky
At least they didn't blow through the bullpen tonight...?
2008-06-24 21:41:52
280.   Greg Brock
279 That's the spirit!
2008-06-24 21:42:33
281.   Bluebleeder87

Mike Piazza's don't grow on trees OB12 but I hear ya. & when they do Newscorp. sells them away.

2008-06-24 21:44:00
282.   scooplew
Dodgers' record vs. White Sox prior to 1959: 0-0
Dodgers' record vs. White Sox in 1959: 4-2
Dodgers' record vs. White Sox since 1959: 1-6
2008-06-24 21:44:51
283.   Jon Weisman
BH, I don't think people are saying that Sweeney has cost the Dodgers the pennant. I don't think people are saying that the younger players don't need to do better in order to win. While I agree that sometimes the criticisms of Colletti can be knee-jerk, I also think that a lot of the people you're responding to would just like to see the players with the most potential on the field - even if they are mediocre in 2008. And that feeling doesn't change even when the lineup is filled with kids, if there are still a couple spots that people also could think would be better served without a mediocre vet. Just because a player makes eight of 10 free throws doesn't mean you wouldn't wish him to make nine of 10.

I don't happen to think that benching Pierre for Young or cutting Sweeney will have a grand effect on the fortunes of the team. But it's okay to want the incremental improvement that those moves might provide. It's okay to believe that the Dodgers are being too patient with Sweeney. It's okay to still be upset with the Pierre signing and not buy Ned's reasons for it. (As long as you don't violate rule 8!)

Now, going the other way, it is worth pointing out that when the lineup is 8/9ths what you'd want it to be (given who is healthy), that maybe the complaining when the team loses should be a bit more muted. By and large, the kids are playing, and Ned is living and dying with them like the rest of us.

2008-06-24 21:45:10
284.   Physics DR
Good Russian novels and Good Chinese movies ALL have sad ending :)
2008-06-24 21:48:03
285.   Eric Enders
In the ninth in San Diego, Hoffman just gave up home runs on consecutive pitches to two guys who previously had combined for one homer all year.
2008-06-24 21:52:58
286.   Greg Brock
How are you supposed to take a ton of pitches off a guy who pounds the zone all day?

Have good at-bats, yes. But look at strike one, foul off strike two...What are you supposed to do?

Seeing a lot of pitches is also contingent on the pitcher throwing balls that are not strikes. 95 pitches, 65 strikes tonight.

68% strikes is no joke.

2008-06-24 21:53:01
287.   scooplew
284 Many Russian movies are also quite sad. If you have never seen "Ballad of a Soldier," made nearly 50 years ago, it is well worth viewing.
2008-06-24 21:55:45
288.   KG16
286 - well, could have been worse... he could have thrown 81 pitches, all strikes, and probably set a record in the process.
2008-06-24 21:57:36
289.   sporky
284 286 Hear, hear!

It sucks that the Dodgers have faced Cliff Lee, C.C. Sabathia and Mark Buerhle in 3 of their 4 most recent losses.

It sucks even more that of the next 5 projected opposing pitchers, 4 of them have ERAs lower than 3.5.

2008-06-24 21:58:01
290.   Physics DR
Good movie. Agreed. very sad ending
2008-06-24 21:58:36
291.   sporky
289 Make that 3.2. Yeesh.

I hope they don't get swept in back-to-back series.

2008-06-24 22:01:49
292.   KG16
good news, the Axis of Evil Comedy tour is on comedy central. A friend of mine from law school is in the crowd, I think
2008-06-24 22:01:55
293.   underdog
283 Very well said Jon, that's sort of what I wanted to say but couldn't articulate it. None of these things are The Reason why the Dodgers are struggling to score, but incremental improvements do have an impact. To say Sweeney is why the Dodgers are struggling is ludicrous. But to say they couldn't be improved with someone else hitting off the bench would be blind also. Furcal isn't The Reason either, but he sure does have an impact when he's in there. That's nobody's fault; he's just hurt. But all these things add up. Some of them the Dodgers have little control over - injuries - but for the ones they do have control over, let's try to make the team as good as we can, particularly because they don't have that one impact guy who can mash consistently right now. And yes, the starters, young and veteran, need to step it up, too.

And as Brock said, tonight's pitcher pitched a hell of a game, threw strikes all night, and as Sporky said, tough pitchers in this stretch, for a lineup that struggles to be consistent, well, what can you do.

I really do have faith the Dodgers will turn it around next month. Maybe it'll be fruitless, but, I do really believe that.

2008-06-24 22:02:35
294.   sporky
289 Should be 283 and 286 . Russian and Chinese lit are not my forté.
2008-06-24 22:03:07
295.   underdog
And now I will read "War and Peace" and hope I don't finish it before the Dodgers next win a series.
2008-06-24 22:04:54
296.   Jon Weisman
As I always say, War and Peace is great for the first 1,200 pages. Then it tails off.
2008-06-24 22:06:29
297.   arborial
Proof that PeeWee doesn't get enough playing time and that ESPN has absolutely no idea what they are talking about:

The homer is credited to Delmon Young and it links to his profile.

2008-06-24 22:06:43
298.   Greg Brock
Tolstoy is great, but nothin' cracks turtles like Leon Uris.
2008-06-24 22:08:18
299.   scooplew
283 Jon, as usual, you nailed it. Replacing Sweeney with someone else -- anyone else? -- would be an incremental improvement. So would finding someone else to take Proctor's spot. Ardoin, in limited duty, may be an upgrade from Bennett. The departure of Loiaza led to an incremental improvement of the Dodgers. Over the course of 162 games, little things improve a club. It's a bit like watching the minute hand on a clock. You never actually see it move, but it does. The whole is the sum of its parts.
2008-06-24 22:09:30
300.   Eric Enders
Delmon Young could probably use the homer. He has the same number of homers Pee Wee does and he plays every day.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-06-24 22:18:31
301.   Physics DR
296 297

A new tranlation of War and Peace by Pevear and Volokhonsky -- I think is very good.

They did a much better translation of Anna Karenina several years ago that won several awards.

Both of these translations make the books easy to read. provide better inter-action between the characters, and better scenic background.

I got my 17 year old son to start reading Anna Karenina earlier this year and was liking it. However he stopped the very minute his English teacher told him is was one of here favorite books. He really disliked this teacher!

2008-06-24 22:23:15
302.   Physics DR
Why do K12 teachers pick only PC books or sad books, or boring books?

Too many kids (especially boys) start to loss interest in reading.

2008-06-24 22:24:01
303.   Eric Enders
Ask Brock. He's the one who made kids read Uncle Tom's Cabin.
2008-06-24 22:24:54
304.   KG16
302 - because there is a list for each grade handed down from the districts, and those lists are crap.
2008-06-24 22:28:25
305.   Greg Brock
303 I knew that was coming. And from you.

I deserve it.

My first pick was Slaughterhouse Five. And the AP English teacher threw a hissy fit because it was her book and OMG I so want to teach that next year!

In retrospect, I should have picked Huckleberry Finn.

2008-06-24 22:29:56
306.   Eric Enders
At least you don't teach in Texas, where you'd get in trouble if you let a kid read any book which implies that the Confederacy was wrong in any way, or that sex exists.

I'm overstating, but not by much.

2008-06-24 22:32:01
307.   Greg Brock
When I have tenure, I'll give my AP kids whatever the hell I want them to read.

Until then, by the book, baby.

2008-06-24 22:35:50
308.   scooplew
301 I was thinking of the best novels that I have ever read, and two "recent" ones came to mind -- "Sophie's Choice," by Styron, and "American Pastoral," by Roth. Roth may not be the best American writer, nor is he the most versatile American writer, but I think that he is the best most versatile American writer.
2008-06-24 22:43:20
309.   underdog
Should I begin my rant about standardized testing here, or would that be a rule 5 violation?

306 Confederacy of Dunces? Now that's a book I'd teach to children!

2008-06-24 22:43:47
310.   Bob Timmermann
I see minute hands move all the time at work. We have those clocks that make that "click" and "clunk" before they move ahead.

The clocks at my workplace are remarkable in that no two clocks there ever show the right time. It's as if the library was a collection of wormholes that people passed through putting them into different realities.

Which could explain a lot.

2008-06-24 22:46:48
311.   Greg Brock
Wow, I missed the beginning of the game, where Steve Lyons talked about how the Dodgers need to be more aggressive at the plate.

It bookends nicely with Joe Torre saying that they need to have more patient at bats.

Talk about a Confederacy of Dunces.

2008-06-24 22:49:02
312.   Eric Enders
309 I probably have exactly the same rant you do.
2008-06-24 22:49:25
313.   CanuckDodger
309 -- I'm afraid Ignatius does things with a rubber glove that wouldn't be approved of by the school system in Texas.
2008-06-24 22:51:39
314.   underdog
Mitch Jones hit a home run again tonight for Vegas. Whoop de doo. Uh oh, and Ramon Martinez has been hot since rejoining Vegas. Uh oh. Don't do it Ned. Don't.

Repko continues to heat up, too.

2008-06-24 22:51:44
315.   D4P
Texas sucks.

End of rant.

2008-06-24 22:52:24
316.   DaDoughboy
..and that makes it oh for 4 this year at the stadium! just had that feeling that maybe Lowe was (once again) given a bit too much rope.

Also found out I got tix for tomorrow as well..gonna break out of my personal slump.

2008-06-24 22:53:09
317.   CanuckDodger
Has anybody here ever seen HBO's The Wire? I bought the first season DVD set tonight because I kept hearing how great the show is. We'll see.
2008-06-24 22:53:25
318.   Eric Enders
- - - - - - -
"A popular high school English teacher in Tuscola in west-central Texas has been placed on paid leave and faces possible criminal charges ... The teacher, Kaleb Tierce, 25, is being investigated for distributing harmful material to a minor after the student selected and read 'Child of God' by the Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist Cormac McCarthy."
2008-06-24 22:56:22
319.   Vaudeville Villain
Since we're apparently into Literature thoughts, I thought that the story behind Confederacy of Dunces' publication was more interesting than the actual book. I thought the book was just okay.
2008-06-24 22:57:55
320.   Eric Enders
317 You could round up every other TV show that's ever been made, squeeze out whatever greatness they have in them, combine all that greatness into one show, and it still wouldn't be able to touch "The Wire" with a ten-foot pole.

So, yeah. It's good.

2008-06-24 22:58:03
321.   DaDoughboy
The sign that the apocalypse is indeed upon us..
2008-06-24 22:59:16
322.   D4P
You could round up every other TV show that's ever been made, squeeze out whatever greatness they have in them, combine all that greatness into one show, and it still wouldn't be able to touch "Arrested Development" with a ten-foot pole.
2008-06-24 23:00:27
323.   underdog
316 Um, we're pooling our money together here and are going to send you to the Symphony tomorrow instead. Hope that's cool.

317/320 - What Eric said. I will say too that you should give it a few episodes to both sink in and to hit its stride. That's pretty much true for each of its seasons. I have Season 1 and Season 4 as my favorites. But they're all great.

2008-06-24 23:01:49
324.   Vaudeville Villain

People can be so stupid.

2008-06-24 23:02:01
325.   Bob Timmermann
Eric Enders and I have constructed altars to David Simon in our homes. I sacrifice a bottle of Jameson's on it each night.
2008-06-24 23:04:15
326.   The Mootz
322 No touching.
2008-06-24 23:07:04
327.   jasonungar07
The Wire is one of the best shows ever. I am jealous that you have so many episodes to watch..
2008-06-24 23:07:48
328.   Vaudeville Villain

It is my favorite show, ever.

There is a moment in Season One that I might put up there as one of the most gut-wrenching things I have ever seen in any medium, including Rorschach's fate at the end of Watchmen, and the entire final chapter of Thomas Pynchon's Mason and Dixon.

2008-06-24 23:08:09
329.   underdog
I have a small David Simon shrine here as well.


"One of the sad things about contemporary journalism is that it actually matters very little. The world now is almost inured to the power of journalism. The best journalism would manage to outrage people. And people are less and less inclined to outrage." - Simon

"It occurred to me, having written a couple of 600-page tomes, that if you want to say something intricate about something as disorganized, confused, and interconnected as an American city, you want to stay for the whole season on a single story." - Simon

2008-06-24 23:09:14
330.   DaDoughboy
Be patient with it...Treat it like Mr. Kershaw..
2008-06-24 23:17:57
331.   Bob Timmermann
I'd tell you who did "it" in "The Wire," but I'm not sure which "it" it would be or when or why.
2008-06-24 23:18:24
332.   Physics DR
TO: He who must NOT be named!

I have tickets to 4th of July game in SF.

If the Dodgers are ahead of the Giants I will convert.

2008-06-24 23:27:30
333.   Greg Brock
What books would you all have a high school teacher assign?

Give me three indispensable books that won't get anybody fired.

2008-06-24 23:32:11
334.   Louis in SF

Whether you convert or not, if you decide you want DT folks with you let me know, I am starting to see what is available. Went to the game last

In an earlier post both Jon and underdog referenced the important point about"incremental" change, and how it has been lacking.

What I find equally frustrating is any sense at times of urgency not panic in some of the Dodger lineups. I can't say definitely the Dodgers would have won all of the games, but certainly on many of the Sunday games where Kent was rested Mazza played instead of either LaRoche or Young, a few more starts for Young and maybe we win 1 or 2 of those games and maybe we are 1 or 2 games closer to Arizona.

2008-06-24 23:35:15
335.   underdog
333 I assume Catcher in the Rye still gets people fired somewhere?

How about a little Orwell, "1984." Or Fahrenheit 451. Or Slaughterhouse 5.

To Kill a Mockingbird.

100 Years of Solitude.

Catch-22. (Er, that may be found subversive by some people in West Central Texas, though.)

Song of Solomon.

The Plague.

2008-06-24 23:36:55
336.   Eric Enders
333 You talking history class or English class?
2008-06-24 23:38:38
337.   Greg Brock
Catcher in the Rye, 1984, To Kill a Mockingbird, and Slaughterhouse 5 are all read at our school.

AP Euro reads The Plague.

2008-06-24 23:39:41
338.   Greg Brock
336 Either one.
2008-06-24 23:45:14
339.   bleedsblue

Darkness at Noon--Kesstler
Cannery Row--Steinbeck
Man in the High Castle--Philip K. Dick

If I taught HS I wouldn't let a kid read Child of God unless his parents were on board; that guy should have steered him to All the Pretty Horses or something.

2008-06-24 23:48:34
340.   sporky
My favorite HS English teacher covered Rushdie, Irving, Camus, Saramago and Nabokov, although I don't know if any of those books were indispensable.

In retrospect, I'm amazed no one made a fuss about him.

2008-06-24 23:49:44
341.   sporky
340 Then again, I didn't go to high school in the US.
2008-06-24 23:50:32
342.   Greg Brock
I also realized my responses may seem kind of curt, which is not what I'm going for. There isn't a group of imaginary intertubes people whose opinion I respect more than this crowd.

I'm legitimately asking.

2008-06-24 23:51:16
343.   tjdub
I was forced to read The Brothers Karamzov in college and hated it so very much. Once allowed to read it on my own it is one of my three or four favorites. I think it's hard to enjoy an assigned book no matter what it is.
2008-06-24 23:53:25
344.   tjdub
Has anyone else read Steinbeck's To a God Unknown? I love that book and don't know anyone else who has read it?
2008-06-24 23:57:10
345.   68elcamino427
Thank You.

0-3 BA .200 Berroa
0-2 BA .167 Lowe
0-1 BA .103 Sweeney
0-4 BA .280 Pierre (0 home runs in over two seasons)

AB 3, R 1, H 1, RBI 1, BA .286 (Home Run) Young

Move over old Tyrant, Young is moving in.

2008-06-24 23:59:48
346.   bhsportsguy
345 Why do I even bother?
2008-06-25 00:05:50
347.   bleedsblue
Question for you guys:

Does batting practice ever consist of them hitting off of pitches thrown by guys on the pitching roster, in a game-simulation of the mix and speed of pitches they'll actually see, or is it just hitting easy pitches as they do the pre-game practice on the field?

2008-06-25 00:08:15
348.   scareduck
318 - Mencken thought -- and I agree -- that the rest of the country would be immensely better off had the South succeeded in succession. And here I had better stop lest I drift into a rule 5 violation.
2008-06-25 00:08:27
349.   bhsportsguy
347 It is certainly not game simulation and I don't think anyone on the active roster throws BP. While I would not say it is easy pitches, no one throwing curve balls or splitters either.
2008-06-25 00:11:52
350.   Greg Brock
347 Pitchers throw simulated games against a few hitters. But that's usually for rehab.

Batters just take beeps to loosen up before the game.

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-06-25 00:11:53
351.   Dodgers49
I'm still trying to understand why Nomar would fly all the way to Boston to see a physical therapist and then ignore the advice. This doesn't seem like a smart move to me but I guess we'll soon find out.

>> The Dodgers infielder has missed 53 games with a strained left calf but recently cut in half the 10 days he was prescribed to take off by his physical therapist in Boston and is getting closer to a rehab assignment. <<

2008-06-25 00:14:36
352.   Greg Brock
Harry Turtledove taught me that Southern secession would have been disastrous.

And ultimately the nation would have been reunited anyways.

2008-06-25 00:14:57
353.   Physics DR

MAJOR depression. :) but OK

2008-06-25 00:15:11
354.   Eric Enders
East of Eden's a really underrated book. One year we were allowed to select two of our own books and I picked that and 1984. So I'd take those two and maybe some of these...

Darkness at Noon
Lord of the Flies
Angle of Repose
Fear and Loathing (OK, that one'll get you fired)
Cuckoo's Nest (maybe that one too)
Grapes of Wrath
Of Mice and Men
Jane Eyre (I loved, loved, loved this in high school. But I was a weird kid.)
In Cold Blood
Barrio Boy (Galarza)
Old Man and the Sea
Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass
All the Pretty Horses
The Known World

2008-06-25 00:20:23
355.   bleedsblue

So wouldn't it make sense to have something like a game situation batting practice, especially when some of the hitting issues seem to be related to plate discipline? I thinking Kemp and DeWitt would benefit from this. Couldn't hurt, right?

2008-06-25 00:21:00
356.   sporky
354 I loved East of Eden. I was actually grateful that my teacher had us read that book.
2008-06-25 00:22:29
357.   Eric Enders
It could hurt the pitchers' arms, which is why they don't do it.

Of course, it might make sense for a team to keep a washed-up pitcher like Tomko or Loaiza around for exactly that purpose -- somebody who's not on the roster, but is hired to serve as a near-major-league-caliber batting practice pitcher.

Probably not many people would want the job though.

2008-06-25 00:23:20
358.   Greg Brock
357 Jose Lima, please pick up the white courtesy phone.
2008-06-25 00:26:38
359.   underdog
The Known World is a great book. I was trying to think of a few more recent books that might already qualify as classics and that would be one of them. (Atonement might be another. And Philip Roth had a few recently, too.) I wonder how that one would be for high schoolers, though. Maybe really sophisticated students.
I'm in favor of anything Steinbeck. I've even been to the Steinbeck Museum in Salinas. (No really, it's a cool place.)


Okay, night all.

Oh boy! Sleep! That's when I'm a Viking!

2008-06-25 00:29:42
360.   tjdub
354 East of Eden is absolutely number one on my list (and Steinbeck is my favorite author overall) The whole scene wherein Lee takes the Genesis story to his elders is the best few pages of anything I've ever read hands down.
2008-06-25 00:30:22
361.   GoBears
Just, for the love of Choi, don't assign Faulkner. I had to read every novel the man ever wrote, and many of the short stories. Egad. Decline of the old South. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we get it. If you have to assign Faulkner, choose "As I Lay Dying." It's the same as every other one, only much much shorter.

I s'pose they read Gatsby at some point?

2008-06-25 00:30:40
362.   Greg Brock
Maybe Eric will give me credit for assigning Grapes of Wrath and showing my philosophy class Waking Life.

Then my Uncle Tom's Cabin malfeasance may be forgiven.

I can only hope.

2008-06-25 00:33:32
363.   Greg Brock
361 They read Gatsby as Juniors, right when I teach the Roaring Twenties. It helps so much with context, and the kids really get it.

The fact that English teachers won't coordinate the rest of their reading with the History teachers pisses me off to no end.

2008-06-25 00:36:33
364.   bleedsblue

I was thinking the same thing.

On Dodger Talk they were talking about how tough it is for Sweeney since he gets so few ABs. Something like this could help him too. I have no doubt he does better than .100 against a pitching machine. I'm guessing it's more of a reaction time issue for him.

There doesn't seem to be any chance of roster changes on the horizon given what Torre, Colleti and McCourt have said recently, which leaves only two options for improving the offence: waiting for the slumps to end or changing the training. I think they need to think outside the box here and quick.

2008-06-25 00:38:50
365.   68elcamino427
Because your positions are the result of careful consideration and your ideas are sound? I agree with most of the ideas that you share. In this particular instance, it's just a matter of a different approach.
Another way to make the offense more powerful, would be to identify all of the players that have averaged 20 home runs or more over the past two seasons who are before their thirtieth birthday and find a way to aquire three to five of these players and lock them up for three years.
Loney could be such a player as could Kemp, LaRoche, and Young.

jus say'in

2008-06-25 00:44:03
366.   Linkmeister
They're gonna hear Hemingway's name a lot if they stick with literature, I suppose, so it wouldn't hurt to pick one of his (I'd try A Farewell to Arms -- war stories keep the boys on board, and Nick will enchant the girls).

We read The French Lieutenant's Woman, A Separate Peace, As I Lay Dying (hated, hated, hated it!).

If you get to the 30s, Dreiser or dos Passos, maybe?

2008-06-25 00:45:50
367.   Eric Enders
364 I hear ya, but I think we're underestimating the complete resistance baseball people have to new and different ideas. BP's probably been done the same way for 100 years, and it's going to take something far more apocalyptic than a 35-40 record to change that.
2008-06-25 00:48:54
368.   bleedsblue

Torre and Colleti have basically said they're going to stay the course with the current roster. Are you talking about 2009?

2008-06-25 00:49:44
369.   Linkmeister
Oops. I put Nick Adams in "Farewell," but of course he's not. The doomed romance would keep the girls interested, though.
2008-06-25 00:52:34
370.   Greg Brock
I really doubt hitters would want to turn BP into a simulated game. Hitting is a pretty mentally exhausting thing.

Get up there and spray the ball around, get your back and trunk loose, and play ball.

2008-06-25 00:56:56
371.   68elcamino427
i'm guessing it's more of a reaction time issue with him
I agree, Sweeney has been doing this PH gig for a long time. What's really changed for him? Maybe he just doesn't see/react to the ball as he was once able to. Time marches on.

For the young guys, a tremendous emphasis has been put on "seeing" more pitches. Maybe they are thinking more about what they are doing and reacting less than they need to? This is a conundrum, because they need to learn to do this, so that it is second nature and they are no longer thinking, but just reacting when they are implementing these strategies at the plate.
Often, it's a difficult process for us to observe. Torre is committed to it and he should be, for the players that he wants to retain will then "know how to win".

2008-06-25 01:03:15
372.   Greg Brock
Once upon a time, players were done at 35. Mark Sweeney is 38.

The days of 38 year old productive players largely went out with the reopened CBA.

Now, somebody just needs to tell Nomar.

2008-06-25 01:07:33
373.   68elcamino427
That's what they're saying today. Let's see what actions they will take after the All-Star break when some of the answers to the "ifs" are known. "If" Jones can hit close to his career average. "If" Furcal can play for a sustained period of time and be productive again. "If" Penny can regain his form.
I would really be surprised "if" McCourt will allow the rest of the season to be played in the fashion that it has been since Furcal went down, to date.
2008-06-25 01:18:25
374.   Greg Brock
Has there ever been a more unnecessary remake than "The Day the Earth Stood Still" starring Keanu Reeves?

Other than Psycho
Or Planet of the Apes

Think about that. Off to bed.

2008-06-25 01:20:04
375.   bleedsblue

I agree there would be a lot of resistance to doing something like this, and that for the young guys it is a "seeing more pitches" issue. I know that they study video of the pitchers they're up against (not sure about the Dodgers, but I've heard players on other teams talk about this) but something tells me that's just not the same as getting up to the plate and watching the pall come at you, and deciding if, when and where to swing. Clearly it's not a replacement for a traditional BP.

I'm just wondering if there's a way to do that same thing outside of a real game. Another plus might be some added info for the managers in that it might help in roster decision making.

2008-06-25 01:51:41
376.   68elcamino427
Right now it goes kind of like this:
"You" are the player.
Mr. Torre, or one of his associates has informed you of what he expects from you.
On a regular basis, you are reminded of these goals.
Mr. Torre is continuoulsy observing everyting that you do. He is interested in your actions on and off the field, but mostly on the field. So, in the practice of batting, fielding, running , even resting, he is always watching, always listening. Mr. Torre believes that everything that you do that is associated with a Dodgers uniform is a reflection of him. In a way he feels that you are an extention of him and Mr. Torre takes a lot of pride in what he does. Mr. Torre thinks that he is the best and even if he's not, he is paid the best of any MLB manager, so don't get any funny ideas.
If you are fortunate enough to get some PT, you have noticed that he is constantly perched on the dugout steps, arms resting on the rail, chin often resting on the arms, eyes relentlessly watching ... you. Occasionally Mr. Torre makes a comment to his associate Bob, the Bench Coach, who always seems to be next to Mr. Torre's left shoulder, waiting to receive a shared thought. Will you play? Will you stay? It's all up to Mr. Torre. No pressure on you to produce or anything.
2008-06-25 05:35:47
377.   regfairfield
A big problem is I think we were all expecting someone to break out this year, and so far no one has. Combine this with our vets collapsing and you have the current state of the team.
2008-06-25 06:35:34
378.   Marty
Sometimes a Great Notion
Mildred Pierce
The Long Goodbye
2008-06-25 07:06:36
379.   Penarol1916
363. When I was in high school, during sophomore and junior years, there was an option to take your History and English classes as a 2 period block and they would be completely coordinated. Sophomore year was World History and World Literature, while Junior year was a focus on American History and Literature. The literature portion for Junior year started out pretty slowly, but picked up soon enough. Unfortunately for senior, AP English and AP European History did not align enough to make that option work.
2008-06-25 07:09:00
380.   Terry A
Mostly from the Washington Post:

Nick Johnson delivered the epitaph for his 2008 season by text message. "I need surgery on my wrist," he wrote to teammate Paul Lo Duca. Lo Duca responded much like others yesterday in the Washington Nationals' clubhouse when they learned that Johnson, their first baseman and regular No. 4 hitter, will miss the rest of the season while recovering from a right wrist injury. "Dude, you need to talk to my pharmacist first," Lo Duca wrote back.

(Confession: I may have changed part of that. It's early; I can't remember details.)

2008-06-25 07:35:38
381.   Penarol1916
As for book selections that won't get you fired, one of my favorites, that gives an interesting taste of life in the late 1800's and America's relationship with much of the rest of the world is Mark Twain's The Innocents Abroad. It is a pretty funny read as well. For a high school history class, I also really liked reading a lot of Daniel Boorstin's work.
2008-06-25 07:49:20
382.   JoeyP
This team has worse problems than Mark Sweeney. Sweeney gets the type of unnecessary grief that Jason Grabowski got. In the end, as long as each do not start, all they do is pinch hit and the Dodgers arent 6 games under .500 because the pinch hitter sucks. Its much more than that.

How many days till Juan Pierre is off this team?

2008-06-25 07:56:58
383.   ToyCannon
Johnny Got His Gun
2008-06-25 07:57:49
384.   cargill06
382 1,169 give or take a few days.
2008-06-25 08:04:13
385.   68elcamino427
740 more days would be a time around the All-Star break two years from now :)
2008-06-25 08:06:17
386.   Ken Noe
I used to be very anti-Sweeney--most of our starting pitchers are more likely to get a hit--but now I want him to stick around until he unseats Billy G as the all-time Dodger with lowest BA and 50+ ABs in a season (.092, 1969). It can be done! Do it for Billy G!
2008-06-25 08:10:34
387.   Ken Noe
By the way, I think Kent deserves credit for actually sticking up for his younger teammates: Coaches can say be patient, but in the same breath, they're saying this (opposing pitcher) throws strikes early. How can you be patient when a guy throws strikes early? That's the catch, and it's hard."
2008-06-25 08:16:17
388.   Bumsrap
From Dodger Blog--LA Times

Torre saying after game yesterday:
Hitters need to make the pitcher work.
Pierre and Kent get it and Martin gets it sometime.
Team watches video if haven't seen a pitcher before.
In Majors, pitchers like Buehrle don't have throw a fastball on a 2-0 count.
If the pitcher is throwing strikes, make sure you have a plan with your atbat.
Know what the pitchers throws and look for the type of pitch you want to hit and don't go up there just reacting to whatever he throws.
Loney hit first pitch really hard but still hit into double play--team needs to make the pitcher work. (a contradiction? pitcher throwing strikes and Loney perhaps looking for a particular pitch according to his plan for that at bat)

Sounds like Torre and Colletti are making contingency plans if team still not doing well after Jones, Furcal, Nomar, Penny, Kuroda return so that they will be ready to do something before the July 31 trading deadline.

2008-06-25 08:22:11
389.   regfairfield
388 I really don't like hitters being told to lay off pitches they smashed.
2008-06-25 08:27:19
390.   Penarol1916
I have not looked at the pitches per plate appearence stats, but can anyone confirm that Pierre is making the pitchers work?
2008-06-25 08:30:57
391.   jasonungar07
I plan on hitting a weak grounder to 2nd base. If that don't work, short fly ball to lf.

very well.

2008-06-25 08:33:18
392.   old dodger fan
390 -See 190 above.
2008-06-25 08:37:47
393.   Dodger Dawg
The problem with this team as I see it, is that no one other than Pierre, and Furcal is in his prime. Everybody is either up and coming, or on the downside of their careers. If somehow you could surround the younger players with other players that are in their prime years you might have something. Also having Pierre in his prime years is no help.
2008-06-25 08:39:10
394.   Ken Noe
Loney leads Pierre in every batting category--BA, OBP, hits, runs, rbis, walks. Kemp leads him in everything except walks and OBP; they're tied. Ethier leads Pierre in everything except BA and hits. Kent ranks below all of them. Perhaps what the team most needs is to upgrade offensively in LF and at 2b, not the opposite.
2008-06-25 08:41:15
395.   GoBears
Brock -

How about some of the muckraker stuff? Upton Sinclair, perhaps? A little Jungle would offer the opportunity to teach some historical lessons. It would also give you an excuse to show "There Will Be Blood" in class.

I suppose Norman Mailer would get you fired.

I second (third? eleventh?) the Hemingway ideas. Always liked "For Whom The Bell Tolls, in addition to those already mentioned."

2008-06-25 08:42:19
396.   Ken Noe
394 Plus they all lead Pierre in OPS, sorry.
2008-06-25 08:45:06
397.   ToyCannon
Ex big time Oriole prospect Matt Riley trying to pitch his way back to the bigs in Vegas after multiple TJ surgeries had 6 k's in two innings of relief work yesterday.
In his last 10 innings he has 18 K's and has given up only 5 hits.
2008-06-25 08:46:05
398.   Johnny Nucleo
377 I think that is bang-on.
2008-06-25 08:49:42
399.   Kevin Lewis
My senior AP English teacher was amazing. He must have had some serious tenure because we were in charge of creating a book list of 20 titles from the library based on genre and total pages. If you didn't space it out correctly, you were in trouble. So, one Monday he told us to choose any book on our list with 650 pages or more and to have it read by Friday. One of the girls in our class did not choose her list wisely, and the shortest book she had over 650 pages was about 1400 pages. Every day we would check in to see how far along she was in the reading.

I loved going to that class every day. I never laughed so hard in a classroom setting, and this was a place where we took "comma" tests.

2008-06-25 08:50:33
400.   68elcamino427
Kent gets it. He gets the plan.

Career Avg. Numbers:
BA .289, OBP .355, SLG .502, OPS 123

2008 Season to Date:
BA .255, OBP .293, SLG .413, OPS 82

Do the Dodgers need to own a tv station like the Yankees and the Red Sox to make this plan work better?

Jones is in his prime years too!

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-06-25 08:53:05
401.   ToyCannon
The Jungle was an eye opener for me and the start of my questioning everything. Luckily for me, my 9th grade English Teacher gave it to me to read since I was always reading in her class. She decided if I was going to ignore her English lessons at least she'd give me a good book to read. Upto that point I'd only been reading SF books.
She was also the one who followed that up with Johnny Got His Gun. Plus she was hot, like Van Halen teacher hot.
2008-06-25 08:54:03
402.   jasonungar07
Joe just expect more out of the young kids. He is getting exactly what a 40 year old clean up hitter should be giving us and JP is doing what he has always done.
2008-06-25 08:54:09
403.   Dodger Dawg
Left field is a power position, and it's been thought to be so for years. If you're going to go against traditional baseball logic and put a one armed bandit (because he robs better players of playing time) out there coupled with a declining 2nd baseman you're more interested in not looking bad that you acquired these players than winning ball games.
2008-06-25 08:56:14
404.   bhsportsguy
I think Tony Jackson reading between the lines of Kent's statement had a correct read of what is going on.

"Your humble correspondent and blog host (that would be me) is a firm believer in the Joe Torre approach to hitting, the idea that you make an opposing pitcher work as much as possible, throw as many pitches as possible and that you go to the plate with an idea of exactly what you want to do. The proof is in the pudding -- and in the four World Series and six A.L. pennants Torre's Yankees teams won by taking that approach."

"But you have to remember, those were VETERAN teams. This is a young team. And it's just possible that they aren't ready to take on this cerebral approach to the game just yet. Not that they won't ever be. But let's put it this way: this approach has been preached to them since Day One of spring training, and it obviously still hasn't caught on with any consistency -- and because these guys are so young, it might not catch on anytime soon ,either (read: anytime in 2008). These guys are still at a stage of their careers where they would prefer to keep things as simple as possible, and Torre's way is definitely not simple."

2008-06-25 08:57:00
405.   68elcamino427
Gotta go with these guys, they're the only ones that understand the plan.
Maybe they should be turned into coaches?
2008-06-25 08:58:54
406.   MC Safety
Pretty stoked The Temporary Solution wasn't in the lineup batting 6th last night.

I'm glad they're at least waiting for DeWitt's steroids to wear off before they send him back home to AA. A banned solution showing up on the MiLB drug test would be the last thing Ned needs right now.

2008-06-25 08:59:29
407.   Jon Weisman
2008-06-25 09:00:56
408.   regfairfield
Dodgers PrOPS amongst qualified players

Martin - .849
Ethier - .809
Kent - .790
Loney - .754
Kemp - .742
DeWitt - .735
Pierre - .721

2008-06-25 09:03:05
409.   bhsportsguy
Maybe's its my old eyes but the games I watch, this team is not losing because Pierre and Kent are playing. I know what everyone else is saying but I just can't make that leap.
2008-06-25 09:04:35
410.   Physics DR

I had a 9th grade English teacher like that. The hot part.
I spent the whole year looking at my feet when I had to talked to her.
Otherwise I would have exploded.

2008-06-25 09:07:52
411.   Bob Timmermann
2008-06-25 09:09:03
412.   GoBears
404. I disagree. First of all, the Yankees' success was not necessarily the result of their approach to hitting. It could just have been vastly superior talent. You wear a pitcher out by getting a lot of hits against him too.

Second, Kent made a clearer point than Jackson is making. The problem isn't (necessarily) that young guys can't wait for their pitch. The problem is that they are getting contradictory advice (take pitches vs. swing at good pitches). As Kent said, if a pitcher throws first-pitch strikes right down the middle, that might be the best pitch you'll see, and swinging early is the same thing as swinging at a good pitch to hit.

If youth (read, inexperience) matters, I'd guess it matters in two ways. First, their pitch-recognition skills are not that well developed. This seems clearest with Kemp. It doesn't matter how patient you are - if you can't tell a strike from a ball, you're in trouble. Second, maybe (this is just speculation) young guys see strikes early, whereas vets with proven success see more nibbling.

How often does A-Rod look at 2 strikes? Rarely, I bet. I bet he swings at early strikes or else starts counts 2-0.

The confusion, as I see it, is that Jackson and others (maybe even some of the coaches and players) equate "patience" with "taking pitches, whether they're hittable or not."
Sure, any kind of pitch-taking will help to wear out the opposing pitcher (pitches is pitches for him), but if those pitches are called strikes, you're not going to have a lot of success against him starting every count 0-2.

2008-06-25 09:12:34
413.   Dodger Dawg
409. This team isn't losing because of Pierre and Kent, but it's not winning with them either. It's just 2 places that could , or should be upgraded. Will it help? It probably wouldn't hurt.
2008-06-25 09:12:54
414.   regfairfield
409 Kent and Pierre are, at the moment, the worst hitters on the team and only Proctor and Penny have worse VORPs. They're not entirely to blame, Kemp, DeWitt and Ethier's recent slumps have helped, but they deserve fingers pointed at them more than anyone else.
2008-06-25 09:16:52
415.   regfairfield
I guess I managed to block out the fact that Angel Berroa is our starting shortstop. We can blame him too.
2008-06-25 09:18:32
416.   scareduck
Not understanding why Jon disabled comments on the NPUT.
2008-06-25 09:18:42
417.   Jon Weisman
Sorry - comments are open above.

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