Couldn't the Simers column be read as a knock on Torre?

Back in my heyday, if there was a communication gap between someone older and someone younger, the assumption was the older guy was to blame. Simers seems to be saying that by advocating Mattingly join the team full time. Mattingly's really cool. He wears sandals and love beads, he likes the Beatles, and his favorite word is "relevant."

P.S. I was surprised by the negative reaction some had to the Dodgers' winning without a hit. Me, I loved it. I found myself actually hoping they wouldn't get a hit in their last couple of innings. Shades of 2003, except I seriously doubt the offense will be 2003 bad the whole season.

Orlando Hudson just flew out on a 4 and 2 pitch.

2 - Now that's a patient hitter!

Yesterdays game reminds me so much of the Koufax perfect game on 9/9/65. Bob Hendley lost a 1 hitter but the hit had nothing to do with the run. In the 5th inning Lou Johnson walked, went to 2nd on a grounder to the pitcher, stole 3B and scored when the throw went into LF.
Linescore:
Cubs 0 0 1
D's 1 1 0

1 I was hoping they would not get a hit as well though I wouldn't have liked it had the Angels rallied to win.

Yesterday was so 2008 for the Dodgers. They have lost 9 of their last 16 yet have climbed to within 2 1/2 games of 1st in the NL West. One almost gets the feeling they could lose 3 straight yet somehow move closer in the division. Sort of like not getting a hit yet somehow winning the game.

5 those were my feelings as well, in the bottom of the eigth I was kinda hoping we wouldnt get a hit...then was sure the baseball gods were going to spite us in the top of the 9th, but luckily we escaped

The Simers piece is insane.

Just absolutely insane.

I loved Simers title also.

I wouldn't hold my breath on the Dodgers getting a no-hitter any time soon. In this day and age of pitch counts, we have a hard enough time getting a complete game. Factoring in the fact that the only guy who works deep into games (Lowe) is a sinkerballer who doesn't strike out a lot of guys and I just don't see it happening in the near future.

1 I agree with you, it was more like shades of the early and mid 60's...

WOW! I was in the air when this was happening, and still in the air now. Thank goodness that MLB.TV archives didn't have any stupid highlights to ruin the game for me. Followed along with DT.

A couple of games ago, underdog was willing to offer his kingdom for a bloop hit. Keep the cats, dog, who needs a hit.

Really surprised at the negativity of some of the comments. Jeez.

11
You must be on a really long flight.

4 - My first game at DS as a kid. Spoiled for life!

12 - I ain't comin down!

we should all be focusing on the pitching and the great timely defensive plays and doing what was needed to win...

was it an unusual way to win, of course...but they did

if Torre pulled a pitcher with a no-hitter at the same junction, he'd be crucified...but Scioscia gets a pass...

the old double standard at work, McCourt/Coletti/Torre bad, Moreno/Scioscia good

this is a kind of win that can turn a season around and light a fire under the team...and then again, its only one game, and we are still relying on washed up veterans to pull us along (IMHO)

the Dodgers "body language" indicates towards a Furcal extension. I don't like how there treating who but to be fair there is probably mo to it than this... Putting my self in who's shoes my confidence would be WAY down the way they are treating him.

9
You do know that Derek Lowe has thrown a no-hitter before?

17 he has also won in the post season

15
I'm pretty sure Scioscia didn't get criticized because it was a no-brainer to pinch-hit for Weaver in the 7th. Has there really been a lot of Torre criticism in the mainstream media?

my phone is making the corrections...(Sorry) Who should ne Hu & mo should be more.

I just pitched a complete game to add to my spelling woes.

To state the obvious: If this game had been in Angels Stadium, Weaver might not have been pulled because he wouldn't have been in the batting order; and if their pitchers had managed to get through the Dodger order in the ninth, it would have been an official no-hitter.

Torre might not have been criticized as heavily as you think if he'd pulled his no-hitting pitcher. It's part of the NL game -- most people understand that. If your team is losing 1-0, you need hits. Plus it's not as if the Angels or Dodgers bullpens are weak. The manager's job is to win the game. Scioscia's move really can't be questioned on the merits. Any manager who let his pitcher bat in that circumstance would have been rightly criticized.

20 - When you punch in 1 (800) dod-gers does your phone automatically correct and call 1 (dia)lap-rayer

21- and, when is the best time to pull a pitcher? Weaver had about 95 pitches through 6 and would be trying to continue with a no-hitter with pitches 96 through 145 had he gone 9 innings.

It's funny how people think there will be no more Dodger no-hitters in the foreseeable future. The way I look at it, the Dodgers are the only team where all five starting pitchers are capable of throwing a no-hitters on any given day. If anyone in baseball is going to throw one, it's as likely to be the Dodgers as anyone else.

The not-going-deep-into-games argument doesn't really hold any water either, given that we have Broxton and Saito at the back of the bullpen.

I liken the prediction that the Dodgers won't get any more no-hitters to Early Wynn. When Wynn won his 300th game in 1963, many people (including Wynn himself) opined loudly that nobody would ever win 300 games again. That he would be the last one ever. Then Gaylord Perry did it, and everyone said he would be the last one. Then Steve Carlton, and everyone said he would be the last one. Then Seaver, Niekro, Sutton, Ryan, Clemens, Maddux, Glavine. Now everyone says Glavine will be the last one. He won't. And the Dodgers will also pitch a no-hitter soon enough.

11 Ah, don't worry, I won't auction off my cats for a boost to the Dodgers offense! As I said last night, I think the offense will be boosted in less fantastical ways - i.e., Furcal's return, Nomar-for-Sweeney, maybe even Jones returning and not stinking up the joint, and of course the kids continuing to improve. I enjoyed last night, too, though I still was kinda rooting for a hit.

Oh, but if we need to sacrifice Simers or Plaschke to a volcano at some point, I'm all for it.

They were right about Young being the last 500 win pitcher.

Anyone care to forward Simers' piece to the FJM, folks btw?

But what are you all doing here? Super EuroCup game on right now.

.293 veteran leadoff hitter on base %
.696 veteran clean up mans OPS.

General Manager Ned Colletti is under fire, though, and Manager Joe Torre said again, "it's still a work in progress" getting through to the team's young players.

--

You have a hard time getting thru to me when you insult them in the press and then surround then with garbage. And I'm Kent's age.

Here's some news that I'm sure people will have A LOT to talk about including myself:

Juan Pierre will be everyday LF even AFTER Andruw Jones returns.

Torre just told us this morning, although he said Rafael Furcal would probably go back into the leadoff spot when he comes back, with Pierre dropping to second.

``(Pierre) has been that consistent guy for us every day, and he refuses to acknowledge any bumps or bruises, even though you know he has them,'' Torre said. ``He has been great. Juan is going to be our left fielder, and Andruw will be our center fielder.''
That means, of course, that Andre Ethier and Matt Kemp will compete for playing time in RF. Although Torre wouldn't acknowledge that was part of the plan, it is apparent that those two benefitted from pushing each other early in the season. Ned Colletti is a big proponent in the value of having players compete, his thinking being that it brings out the best in the players doing the competing.

This morning's other news is that Chan Ho Park is out of the rotation. It isn't that Joe is backing off on his plan to go with a six-man rotation. It's just that it won't start until Brad Penny comes off the DL, probably on Saturday at San Francisco, when he is tentatively slated to pitch UNLESS he suffers some sort of setback in his simulated game on Tuesday at Houston. Yes, Chan Ho has had two really good starts in a row. But they weren't going to go with seven starters, so somebody was going to have to go sometime, and Joe wants Chan Ho as a long reliever, a role he has been really good in all year.

29 - That's from Tony Jackson.

Ranking my expectations for the next Dodgers no-hitter.

Billingsley
Kershaw
Kuo
Miller
Elbert
Kuroda

20 Bluebleeder87
I thought that you were trying to sound young and hip to impress the Dodger kids...or maybe ESPN.

shoot me now.

Not that I'm against that, but it is kind of weird. Chan Ho has two great starts, and is banished to the bullpen. Stults has one great start, and we have to throw convention on its head to make sure he can keep pitching.

Shoot someone now. I can think of a better candidate than Jason.

I read somewhere that Torre said that Jones would not automatically be a starter when he comes back. Does anybody know if Jones has lost any weight.

29 Ned Colletti is a big proponent in the value of having players compete, his thinking being that it brings out the best in the players doing the competing.

So can someone explain why it's not a good thing for Jones & Pierre to compete for playing time? It being so beneficial and all.

35 Simers?

Would you like to shoot him now or wait 'til you get hom?

(And yes, I don't think Jones is much of a guarantee right now. I think Pierre's status has as much to do with uncertainty about Jones. I still think if Jones actually came back and looked like Jones of 2 years ago (or even last year!) that might change things a bit. Whatever, having Furcal back in the leadoff spot will help, even if Slappy is still starting, feh.

My guessing is that he realizes Ethier and Kemp have much more potential but aren't reaching it with the current setup.

This sounds like the lineup until a decision is made about the July 31 trading deadline:

Furcal
Pierre
Kent
Jones
Garciapara
Martin
Loney
Kemp

If they start winning, no trades will be made and if they start losing, perhaps the older players will be traded.

Torre is probably thinking Ethier can be that left handed power bat off the bench. Plus a solid option for double switches late in games. But the idea Pierre has been great is just absolutely ridiculous. Competition is great but it should be for all four players. Not for the two players who deserve to play everyday.

37 "(Pierre) has been great" is undoubtedly the dumbest thing Joe Torre has ever said.

But to quote George H.W. Bush and The Dude, this will not stand. I think we should all show our maturity as Dodger fans and blog commmenters and not go bat&$%* over this comment. It's cosmic flame bait.

39 Ah, but one has to believe that competition between Pierre and Jones would be just the tonic to get Jones's average up to a robust .180, and Pierre's OPS to .650

No?

Sigh.

42
Battles?
Batman's?

4

I was thinking that too, but after looking at the short list of 5 games since 1901 when a team won without any hits, the really close comparison is the Ken Johnson no-hit loss to the Reds in 1964. For one thing, the line scores for that game and last night's game are identical. For another, in both cases the only run scored after the pitcher's error allowed a man to reach base. Fun with coincidences!

I just realized I don't have today's Dodgers-Angels tilt on Extra Innings. To the movies I go!

42 That's fine. I just think the problem with many writers is there is no accountability. Most just take what is said and print it without questioning the sense to it.

I guess the problem is, if you ask the right questions, you are more then likley not going to get "any" answers to "any" of your future questions. And that's sad.

46
In stories about the game, Reds pitcher Joe Nuxhall claimed that Pete Rose should have been given a hit instead of an error being charged to Johnson.

The play was a slow roller that Rose, then a young second baseman, was going to beat out anyway.

Hanley Ramirez ties it up in Florida with a solo HR in the 9th. AZ-Fla 3-3, 1 out, bottom 9.

Wall-E was the best movie of the year.

51
I have less than zero interest to see that movie.

Marlins win! Dodgers are 2 GB as of right now.

Fish win.

The iron is hot. It's time to strike!

Why, Prime Ticket, why? Again with the no telecast today!

Thank you Marlins!

52 fair enough....not everyones cup of tea.

Nice win for the fish!!

Apparently Yahoo! Sports' definition of tiebreaking is as strong as Plashke's definition of plate appearances.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=AiLgXITqXO24RKfohLSNAKsRvLYF?gid=280629128

Dodgers could move to within 1.5 today.

59
That story will be edited a bit more thoroughly soon. But in today's news world, the AP needs to get some story out about a game as soon as possible.

As Joe Torre continues to fan the flames of the debate (what kind of clubhouse presence is Torre going for anyway?), I thought I would look at the team in yet another way. Who are the team leaders in various categories, and how old they are:

AB:Loney age 24
R:Martin 25
H:Loney 24
2B:tie Kemp/Loney 23/24
3B:Loney 24
HR: tie Kent/Martin 40/25
RBI:Kemp 23
BB:Martin 25 (the great hitting approaches of Kent and Pierre have yielded a total of 28 walks all year)
K (low K rate):Pierre 30
Avg:Martin 25
Slg:Loney 24
OBP:Martin 25
SB:Pierre 30

Our top 4 OPS+ are Martin, Loney, Kemp, and Ethier.

G:Beimel 31
IP:Lowe 35
W:Billingsley 23
W%: sadly Billingsley at .500 age 23
Sv:Saito 38
K:Billingsley 23
ERA:Billingsley 23

I still would like to see some acknowledgement in the mainstream press about the above. How can anyone look at the stat sheet and even come close to concluding that our young players aren't getting something? Simers should be suspended by the LA Times for writing his article without even mentioning who the best players on the team actually are. The whole attitude since DePodesta was first hired just drives me crazy. Everyone with their head just stuck in the sand (or perhaps in a bodily orifice).

Nice play for the Old Man.

56 Yes its back to Gameday, and I'm glad I knew it earlier today. Its seems like year's since I've missed two in a row on a weekend, but it must be the local TV contract. I would have liked to blame it on East Coast bias.

As much as I love Pixar I wasn't looking forward to Wall-e very much either. Eh, a cute robot? Pass. But it's great. And moving, too. Seriously.

Angels are now scoreless for their last 19 innings versus the Dodgers!

62 That only shows that the young kids are selfish and only care about their own personal stats.

Maybe today's game will be a zero-zero tie! They can settle it on penalty swings.

I'm starting to feel like we're stuck in some bad espionage movie in which NedCo actually still secretly works for the hated Giants and Torre still secretly works for the hated Yankees and we're the crackpot conspiracy theorists whom nobody believes until it's all but too late. Only the bumbling inability of the opposition (AZ) keeps hope alive. It's getting harder to convince myself that the powers that be are trying to win.

McPopup.

Wow, just noticed Lackey's ERA. That's, uh, pretty good.

Come on Martin! stupid DP.

When Furcal comes back, I'd send LaRoche down to AAA, and make Berroa the other half of the 3B platoon.

I'd like to officially throw my hat into the ring, competing for Torre's job. It'll make him better, Colletti! And I only want half of what he's pulling down.

There's a lengthier recap on Yahoo! Sports and the Ramirez HR is still tiebreaking.

73 Spoken like a true sabotaging DBacks fan.

65 can we also acknowledge that the race for sound design Oscar is over? And that, after Wall-E, we probably shouldn't bother giving out another sound design Oscar?

74
Now, they've officially screwed up.

Hippo Vaughn and Fred Toney open up a bottle of Champagne.

15 19

Looking back at the other "no-hitters," it is interesting to note that the managers did leave the pitchers in to bat. Yes, I know it was back in the 60s, but still, it was 0-0 and "you have to go for the win."

In the 1964 Cincy-Houston game, Ken Johnson was allowed to make the last out in the bottom of the 8th. Then Joe Nuxhall led off the top of the 9th and grounded out. Later that inning, the Reds got their unearned run.

In the 1967 Detroit-Baltimore game, Earl Wilson batted in the 7th inning, with men on 2nd and 3rd and one out (he popped up). In the bottom of the 8th, with two on and one out, Steve Barber walked (the next batter knocked in the Orioles' only run). Then in the top of the ninth, down 1-0, with two on and no one out, Wilson batted again--admittedly only to sacrifice.

59 74 76 The article also said:
"Dan Haren struck out seven and allowed five hits in six innings for the Diamondbacks, who ended their nine-game road trip 2-8."

How does a team go 2-8 over nine games?

I'm surprised that no one has asked yet--when, if ever, is the last time the Dodgers swept a three-game series without giving up a run?

77 I think writers sometimes just get caught up in sensational words like "tiebreaking" that they forget what it actually means. He describes game action pretty well, but the tease sounds soooo much better with a tiebreaking homerun as opposed to a normal one.

OK, I retract my question :-(

80 They have been really bad.

75- If I were competing for Colletti's job, I'd send LaRoche to Phoenix for Jailen Peguero and Augie Ojeda. Then I'd pray like hell that LaRoche wasn't any good for at least the next year and a half.

Rats! There goes the shutout. And maybe the win, given the way the Dodgers are also scoring.

84 I was refering to the ten decisions in 9 games not to the poor quality of play. Sorry, if you were making a joke, I can't tell.

86 the last time the dodgers survived giving up a run was a week ago against Cleveland :(

I read things like Torre's quote and it makes me not care about this team. I don't even want to watch them anymore. I'm going to watch The Wire.

Oh I hate this. Lowe gets ahead of most hitters, then can't or wont come in. Walks a guy to scoring position and THEN gives up his dreaded hit!

And you wonder why I hated Cleveland:
http://shysterball.blogspot.com/2008/06/and-that-happened_27.html

Check the recap of Thursday's White Sox-Dodgers game.

Yay. Jeff Kent avoids the 0-hits in an 8-innings-worth-of-at-bats win controversy.

81
From September 9-11, 1966, the Dodgers did not allow a run to Houston in a 4-game series.

http://tinyurl.com/3m633n

The last 3-game shutout series for LA was July 22-24, 1960 against the Phillies.

89- I finished the first season, last night, and then I watched the first episode of the next one. They chanced the theme music! Why?! I know it's a Waits song, but if you've got a choice between Waits and The Blind Boys of Alabama, I know which way I'm going, ten times out of ten.

94
It's the same song with a different person/group each year.

94 I have watched 3 seasons (love it) but all 3 versions of the song have been really bad IMO. they got progressively worse from season 1 to 3

What has the world come to when Chandler family heirs have to announce their weddings in the NEW YORK Times?

http://tinyurl.com/3up39m

93 I think the Dodgers that year set a team record by pitching 38 consecutive scoreless innings during the season. The Dodgers actually tied it in 1991 during Dennis Martinez's perfect game.

95- Thank Ch-i for the fast forward button. I see I have the Neville Brothers to look forward to. Awesome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wire_(TV_series)

Vin forgot about Fernando! And on the anniversary!

And also Derek Lowe.

(He was talking about all the people in the ballpark today who have pitched no-hitters.)

The MLB record is 56 straight shutout innings by the 1903 Pirates.

I have seen several one-hitters -- I even was the official scorer for two of them in the California League -- but never a no-hitter. The first one-hitter was on June 30. 1959, 49 years ago tomorrow. Don Drysdale and Sad Sam Jones of the Giants hooked up at the Coliseum on a Tuesday night before 59,312 fans. My Dad and I were sitting high up between home and first -- there were plenty of seats high up at the Coliseum. Heading into the bottom of the 8th, the Giants led, 2-0, thanks to a two-run homer by Willie Mays in the 3rd, and the Dodgers were hitless. A leadoff walk in the 1st inning to Jim Gilliam by Jones had ended any perfect game thoughts. Jones struck out the first two Dodgers in the 8th -- Don Zimmer and Ron Fairly -- and then Gilliam hit a blooper or slow grounder that shortstop Andre Rodgers of the Giants charged but was unable to field cleanly. The official scorer ruled it a hit -- it was a close decision. That was the only hit the Dodgers got. Jones pitched a complete game, striking out 10 and walking two -- Gilliam both times. The Giants won, 2-0. I remember feeling badly for Jones. Jones went 21-15, his only 20-game season and finished second in the Cy Young voting to Early Wynn. There was only one winner for both leagues in those days. Jones, who was known for chewing on a toothpick whenever he played, died in 1971, a bit shy of his 46th birthday.

The consensus is that the season 5 version of the song is the worst one. I tend to agree, even though I usually like the artist.

berroa?

hmm wonderful grandpa wesley...oh well what can we expect from the black hole

Berroa's a sportsman; he didn't want to take unfair advantage of Kotchman's mistake.

Stupid wind.

solid ab by juan

Pierre and flyballs. This happens too frequently.

In the Highly Improbable Department, Washington beat Baltimore 3-2 on a 2-out, 2-run homer by Ronny Belliard off of George Sherrill.

It is disappointing the the Dodgers have done so poorly in attempting to replace Furcal, even for the short term. None of the three -- Hu, Maza and Berroa -- has been close to adequate. Surely, they could have found somebody who could have done even incrementally better. Berroa, in 58 at bats, has no RBI. Did the Dodgers think that someone who couldn't play for K.C. would turn things around with them? If Furcal's return is delayed even further, or if he comes back and gets hurt again, I hope we won't see Berroa again.

110 - Now there is a rivalry that still needs to get off the ground. Perhaps that will help. Took my Monterrey, Mexico friends to the game on Friday. Lovely park in the new/old sort of way. Even with the stands full of O orange not really much emotion in the stadium. I am thinking that even when Baltimore and DC were in the AL together there wasn't much of a rivalry, or at least the old-timers don't talk about it.

Is anybody experiencing blackout on their KCAL channel?

113 no

110 Belliard has some pop. Sherrill ain't great. What is so strange?

114. Strange. O.o

Btw, the Sultanes were saying that there is a movie coming out on their 57 Little League team. Any of you Hollywood types hear about this? I remember a movie on them when I was a kid in late 50's early 60's.

111 Don't think you'll get much disagreement about the fact that none of those guys really cut it in Furcal's absence. But when you're down to plan C and then D for shortstops, and know you likely only need a short term solution, it's not easy to just conjure one out of thin air. There really weren't many good solutions that would have been had without much cost out there, imho. Who did you have in mind? (Just curious.)

In injured Dodger pitcher news, this from Dodgers.com==

"Kuroda, Penny Toss Bullpens"

Harrumph. Don't the Dodgers know that with that much load on their arms, these guys never will make it back? :)

The text message question asks if you think the Dodgers have "exceedded" expectations.

god, the dodgers hitting is pathetic.

With the obviously unfair benefit of hindsight, wouldn't you rather have just let Hu do his thing?

Yikes. Lackey is really at the top of his game this year. Arguably, no one is better.
We need to see some mediocre pitching before the youngsters slump again.

122 No hindsight needed. A lot of us were saying that at the time.

Lisa: "Come to Homer's BBBQ, the extra 'B' is for BYOBB"

Bart: What's that extra B for?

Homer Simpson: That's a typo.

122 I thought, at the time, that he would have been better off just playing defense and hitting 8th. I saw (and see) no reason for Angel Berroa. The only benefit to sending him down I saw was "confidence," which probably isn't helped by his lack of playing time. So, to make a boring story over:

yes.

Way to make him work, guys. {Sigh}

Oh well, I have a lot of stuff to do today.

No, I thought Hu's confidence was shot and something was off with him, that he needed some time away from major league pitching to find it again. At this point I'd take him back, except he hasn't been doing anything in Vegas, or even playing much - is he hurt?

This game, and the whole series basically, has been a combo of great pitching and feeble hitting, for both teams.

Damn Lowe is pitching pretty good so far. The offense bending over so far.

118 Ramon Martinez had a good year for us in 2006 and a poor year in 2007. He's at Las Vegas. Angel Chavez has spent most of his career in the minors, but he does have 5 homers and 45 RBI at Vegas this year. Once it has been established that Berroa can't cut it, and I think that has been demonstrated, I would look elsewhere.

Kemp is a mess at the plate right now. The whole team looks terrible, but Matt isnt even close.

Meet the Feebles.

131 If the answer is one of those three players, I think the Dodgers are asking the wrong question.

131 I would agree that either Martinez or Chavez might be better options than Berroa. Though I can also imagine the amount of scoffing here if either of them were given that job earlier, too. Now I think we'll take anyone. But "Chavez?! Lucille II? Egads! there's got to be someone else out there." would have been about the reaction from many here, probably even myself. ;-)

By my count, the Dodgers have scored 0 runs or 1 run 25 times this season, with another possibly entry today. Does anyone know what the club record is for scoring fewer than 2 runs in a season?

100 - He didn't forget. He was just saving it.

Jason Repko used to be a shortstop, too. Of course he might also take out Kent or DeWitt or someone in an infield collision. And he was probably moved from SS for a reason.

I wonder if this game will have the same final as the EuroCup game. So far so good.

1 hit in last 14 innings.

139 if you mean that both teams will play like hell for the last half, um, I think you're probably right.

To be fair, Lackey's looked superb.

And so has Lowe for the most part. I guess it would be justice if Lowe lost this one after last night's win, but I'm not interested in justice.

Possible moves next week...

6-man staff:

Billingsley
Lowe
Stults
Kershaw
Kuroda
Penny

6-man bullpen:

Saito
Broxton
Beimel
Kuo
Park
Wade

Kuroda's activation = Troncoso option
Penny's activation = Falkenborg DFA

141 Score, I meant.

No, likely not as much excitement.

Maybe a few yellow cards to the Angels, though, that would be nice.

It's the no way inning again. I have a feeling Kent's hit is going to be our "attack" today.

Here comes Mr. HardFoulFeebleOut.

Adrian Beltre just hit one of the strangest home runs I've ever seen. Facing Peavy, Beltre's knee buckled as he was swinging and he fell down in the batter's box. The ball went over the fence anyway.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

Schadenfreude alert.

Oh shoot! Pierre looks really hurt!

That could be really bad.

I hope nobody's thinking anything but "I hope he's not badly hurt." He looks to be in a lot of pain there.

149 Uhh... yeah...

Sheesh. Guys. Seriously. Bad karma.

Well, he seems to be walking off on his own power. That's good.

144 now that I think about it, I'm 100% positive we could come up with much correlation between Ballack and Vlad. Neither one of them are ever completely healthy (actually, that might be it).

And the point was scored by someone who hasn't done much of late... aw crap. Although Rivera's not nearly the historical player Torres is.

154
I'm just saying what's on people's minds.

Who would win a battle between Schadenfreude and Karma?

156 Vlad needs to be bleeding profusely first, though.

I have to admit, seeing him injured conjured up mixed emotions, but I hope the injury is nothing serious.

so, like, what happened?

I'm not a doctor, but I'm going to suggest four months of rest for that, Juan.

And then Ethier wastes the opportunity there.

Is he at least coming out of the game, or is he just pulling a Paul Pierce?

161 Take two bases and call me in the morning?

What the heck happened? Darn this no TV gameday dimension.

160 - Pierre seemed to get tangled up with the infielder when stealing a base, landed on his ankle or twisted it somehow. He came out of the game on his own power I think, but seemed hobbled. So, there, he's injured, but nothing serious.

165 Pierre stole 2nd, head first, Aybar (SS) fell onto the back of his leg. It looked like shin (Aybar) on ankle. Based on the vast medical knowledge that I just made up, I don't think it's bad.

I was thinking that Pierre bruised his knee in the collision.

I don't recall seeing Pierre come out of a game for an injury while on any team.

134 135 Perhaps neither Martinez nor Chavez is the answer. But, arguably, neither can do much worse than Berroa. Is Colletti scanning the waiver wires? Can he pry loose an adequate backup from another club? He simply needs to be more creative in fixing our shortstop inadequacies. They have been allowed to fester far too long.

167 Was Aybar yellow carded at least?

166 Sounds like he'll be "Day-to-Day"

It's June 29th--does Joe Torre know his players yet?

McDonald with 6 shutout innings, 9 Ks.

Well, those who wanted a Young-Kemp-Ethier outfield got their wish.

170 That was an obvious yellow card. I'll call it for the Kuranyi card. One more, Aybar...

2 goals would be too much for the Dodgers to overcome, unless they get a lot of penalty time at the end.

the Angels do have an Iker Casillas level scoring block ability

Nice slider from Lowe!

Uh oh, did Lowe pull something on that slider?

176
Pierre should have milked it more.

I think you're getting a better feed than KCAL

Lackey's gunna hit for himself. I think he's going the distance.

Come on Lowe!

174 For one game, probably.

I'm not going to lie and say I hope he recovers quickly. But I expect that what will happen, given the Dodgers' medical history, is that Pierre, to show his toughness, will return to the lineup right away, or almost right away. And will play the rest of the season with a bum knee, limping slightly, thus robbed of his one asset, his speed.

167,164 Thanks--this mode id frustrating.

But I went through the early 60's.
If you are against one of the best pitchers in the league back then as a Dodger pitcher you don't: Go ahead 2-0, then lose your concentration and throw four balls. That was a run and usually a loss.

Walking an AL pitcher?!

I don't think there's a thing wrong with Lowe--I think he's making fun of Pierre, with his limpy little bounce step coming off the mound. What a bastard.

yesssss! Nice defensive stand by the Dodgers' fullbacks. Now let's see if they can push it up and score on the other end.

186 Good thing he recovered to throw two strikes there.

186 Huh? In the game I'm watching Lowe struck him out. Are you on KCAL's parallel universe feed? ;-)

Ah okay. Never mind.

Hah hah. Vin: "Lowe pitching a tough gem, but right now it's a zircon."

Is Martin wearing camouflage paint on his face?

188 Umm... fullbacks are offensive players. Specifically in two back formations he's the guy who lines up behind the quarterback but in front of the halfback.

190 It was a 3-1 count when I posted that. I was frustrated by Lowe not hitting the strikezone.

194 Not in soccer.

194- In real football. In the other kind of football, they mostly stay back and try to entice the other team's offensive players into being offsides.

194 not in soccer.

If you're an Italian fullback, you either try to draw the opponent offside, or alternatively, beat him up.

Lackey is having such a easy time. CG shutout is inevitable.

Lackey really has pitched a superb game. He's been lights out for most of the season.

When I play fullback, since it's in a league that doesn't have offsides, I usually actually have to play tight defense against cherry-pickers, or entice them into tripping and hurting themselves.

Soy ice cream tastes funny.

197 heresy. Sometimes we also fall flat on our backs for no discernible reason.

In other news, John Lackey is going on to my list, right behind Jake Pevey, who is right behind Peyton Manning, who is right behind Manny Shamalyan.

(slaps forhead) Oh yeah. Soccer.

203 I'm telling you, go to Maggie Mudd's in San Francisco, or find their stuff in a bay area health food/gourmet store. It's awesome, very ice cream like. Some other soy ice creams have a weird aftertaste but theirs is delish.

The Angels will be assimilated!

Falkenborg is not who I would have chosen to pitch in a 1-0 game.

31 strikeouts for Angels hitters in this series so far. Pretty amazing.

206
There is one in downtown Walnut Creek. I just saw them on that show Unwrapped. Maybe I should try it.

He's been pretty good though.

I am not a big fan of Pierre either
HOWEVER
wishing or hoping for somebody to be injured
should be rules violation.

208 Considering how both line-ups have looked, it doesn't seem to matter much who pitches.

Falkenborg has been a revolution. Mid-90s heat, good breaking balls. Just solid stuff.

210
Actually that's Maggie Moo's.

Make that 32.

210 - go!

Oh, I don't think that's the same then. The M Mudd's is in Bernal Heights in SF.

208 And yet the Angels go in order.

Looking over Lackey's gamelog, he has gone at least 7 innings in every start. He has not given up more than 3 runs in any start. He has thrown between 97 and 106 pitches every start, so he's liable to complete this thing.

"Mark Sweeney to hit for Berroa" might be the least exciting thing ever said in sports today.

220 - Basically fixing a problem with a problem.

Dewitt's OPS is now .712 for the season.
Time to give LaRoche the job full time.

How ironic would it be if Berroa got a hit here and then Sweeny went deep for the first time all season?

Oh well, we likely won't have Sweeney to kick around much longer anyway. If he does something good here, great, if not, just another nail in his coffin here I suppose.

Why on earth are the Angels having a meeting on the mound to talk about how to pitch to Sweeney?

Nevermind Sweeny hits early.

Sweeney batting for Berroa is a pretty good example of a manager making a move just for the sake of making a move. And burning 50% of his bench in the process.

So, now that Berroa is out, who plays short?

Hmm, Sweeney was 2-3 vs Lackey before, and gave that one a good rip. And still an out.

I was going to take a nap this afternoon but watching this game is kind of like taking a nap.

Sweeney's average is now at .098

202 - No off sides? That must be very strange for playing soccer, though I think in its history there was a period when that was so.

Doesn't it seem like Maza might actually be better than Berroa? Maybe he should start til Furcal's back.

Also, Lackey or K-Rod for the ninth?

229 So Mark Sweeney is now below the Sweeney line? Pathetic.

wow. Dodger fans are wildly different in there expectations for the year.

LOL, the poll on KCAL has 43% EXCEEDED expectations for the 2008 Dodgers.

Could somebody explain how offsides works in soccer?

230 - It's a little strange, but it's because we play 8x8 on half a regulation field size. So there's less room. But still people who cherry pick annoy me.

honeycutt would be better than berroa

236 If an opposing player is behind the last defender when the ball is struck (excluding GK), it is offsides.

235 What?! Did people think this was going to be the 2003 Tigers?

I'm a jerk, but I have no problem hoping for 15 day DL or more for Pierre.

Sweeney, at .098, is now the owner of the 14th-worst single-season average in the history of baseball. (65 or more PAs.)

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/syC6

Using Sweeney is of course an insult to any thought that we want to win( but I suppose using Pierre has answered that question. But the game was logically lost in the second inning anyway--unless a miracle appears.

239 So if a player is on a breakaway and I'm the last defender, I could just run past him and suddenly he's offsides?

236 -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiwmR6CC0Bk

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-offside-in-soccer.htm

Dodger pitching has given up 3 runs in 45 innings.

244- It's against the rules to try too hard to score, in soccer. Really takes the fun out of watching people run back and forth over the same hundred feet of grass. Which the soccer people call "pitch."

236 . If an offense player doesn't have the ball, there must be always at least two defensive players between him and the goal for him to receive the ball. This is measured at the point when his teammate who is passing the ball to him has made contact with the ball when kicking it. (this only comes into play when he is beyond the half stripe). Or something like that.

244 - If you let him slip behind you before the pass is kicked to him then he'd be offsides, yes. In my league if you do that then you're just toast.

Vinnie gave a report from the clubhouse on Pierre. Injured knee, MRI coming up soon, who will DT posters have to hate on if he goes down for a while. Just kidding about the last part.

Does Kuo have an injury? He hasn't pitched since throwing on back to back days last weekend.

242 Join us tomorrow as Mark Sweeny takes aim at Charlie O'Brien.

Vin announced that Pierre will need a MRI on his knee.

If there's ligament damage, be prepared for a panic trade by Ned.

244 "It's against the rules to try too hard to score, in soccer."

Torre clearly missed his calling, then. He should have been a soccer coach.

And now you know why soccer is so darn popular in America. Sarcasm intended.

244 no. If I strike the ball, and a teammate is behind the last defender, it is offside. If I'm one on one, it is legal. the TEAMMATE is the key.

255 It's one of the most widely played sports in the country, actually. And has been on the increase in popularity in recent years. I do think it helps to have played it, to be more into it that is...

242 Sweeney's also closing in on the worst BA of any LA Dodger with 50 or more AB (my personal favorite sign of ineptitude):

1. Billy Grabarkewitz (1969) -- .092 (6 for 65)
2. Mark Sweeney (2008) -- .098 (6 for 61)

Why did we double-switch with Maza batting ninth? Torre really thought that having Maza bat in the ninth spot was better than having LaRoche hit for the pitcher?

Let's go Pee Wee!

253 I doubt it. Especially if Furcal and Jones are coming back as it appears. I could see them calling up Repko or someone.

So it sounds like you can't go offsides if you already have the ball just if you don't have the ball you can't set up beyond the last defense.

peanuts?

255 I think that the lack of mainstream support is more directly tied in to a lack of stats to follow on a day to day basis, and a difficulty in following players from high school to college to pros.

Vin said Delwyn's family calls him "Peanuts."

LOL!!!!!!!

Yes, when you take out the talented kids who can play baseball, football, or basketball, you have to have something to build up the self esteem of the others...

Pee Wee!

Wow, a hit. I don't know what to do with myself.

Peanuts, Pee Wee, Delwyn, DY, call him what you want, he can hit.

So Peanuts, as the family calls him, comes up and hangs a rope to left. Vin

262 - In a nutshell.

266 That's right, because soccer requires no athletic ability or anything.

Anyway...

Bob Feller said the true test of heart is if a pitcher can hold a 1-run lead in the ninth.

He said a lot of other crazy stuff.

262 exactly correct. Now if I'm receiving a pass (or "through ball"), I can run beyond the last defender, assuming I was in front of him when the ball was struck. But let's just forget about that for now.

263 - In a nutshell, as well. Yes, I noticed that is what Vin has been saying for the past couple of weeks, and not Pee Wee.

WHAT??? kind of strike zone was that???

Oh come on!!! that was waaay outside!!

that ball was outside

266 I'm just going to go ahead and ignore that.

It's Pee Wee.

That was OUTSIDE.

Ethier gets the wrong end of a very questionable call.

267 - Hold on tight to the cats!

Gamecast shows Either to have been called out looking by a pitch half a foot (at least) inside

278 I tried, really I did...

That was a horrendous call.

If even Vinny is willing to say it's bad call, that means it's close to being one of the all-time worst.

or outside, I can't really tell how it's oriented

282 They're safely doing what I should be doing: napping.

Let's go GG!

well its up to the stache i guess

Martin is so good. Nice at bat. The umpire's right arm was twitching on that pitch.

I'm glad we have a hitter at the plate in this spot who will take the right approach.

Well, we worked those counts and got Lackey out of the ballgame! :-/

Lackey's over 120 pitches... perhaps he's starting to tire.

the stache needs to come through

I'm still ticked off about Ethier. I mean, we're trying to win a baseball game here, and the ump just wants to get it over with.

It's K-Rod. Scioscia made the right move, I think.

lets go boys

291
Martin leads the team in walks, BB 44, SO 37 :)

Well at least the ending has some excitement, however it ends.

If Kent gets a dinger, I will go to my grave fighting for him to get into the HOF.

Please don't green light Kent.

That call may have been pay back for the horrible Ethier call?

Be selective Jeff. Don't get too anxious.

even Frankie Rodriguez knows that there's always room for J-Lo.

Please don't swing Kenty.

My heart is racing.

o no, im too scared to watch

Way to go Old Man!

This game should be tied up.

something has to give...

Loaded for Loney...

304 That sounds like a teaser you'd hear on E! network.

At least Loney can't hit into a double play. :-/

Dang the ump is giving the pitcher the advantage here? COME NOW!!!!!

I like very much. How about a WP?

312 I really need to get my reel ready to send to The Soup

{in Elmer Fudd voice} Kill the umpiwe, kill the umpiwe!

313 Shush!

BAH!

crud

loney u are god awful

Underdog, please offer your kingdom to the gods.

as expected

What did Loney do to make the 3rd out?

We missed a sweep by THAT much.

325 Weak grounder to second. He had a pretty good at-bat until that.

325. weak gounder to 2nd baseman.

Great pitching, awful hitting last 5 games.

Only positive was maybe Pierre being out for awhile.

Ah well. They showed some spark at the end.

2 outta 3 vs an AL club, and the Angels, ain't bad.

And Lackey really did pitch superbly. Whatcha gonna do?

The Dodgers sometimes hit better on the road, so let's see what they can this week.

lowe cant wait to get out of dodger land

323 Too late. :-( I'm all out of kingdoms.

So we went one whole turn through the rotation, five games, giving up only three runs. You expect to do better than a 3-2 record when that happens, though.

327 328 Thanks. A hit by Loney there could have been a defining moment both for him and the club.

no clutch hitting, big surprise.

334 Who says defining moments are always positive?

Why is Loney's hitting streak and hot stretch ignored but after a great at bat he ground out in the clutch and he's awful?

?Que paso de Juan-o? (I donno how to use accents 'n stuff.)

Anyway, after flailing about like a limpwristed paintywaist in a 90 minute soccer game, I need a nap. Cheers all.

322 What a ridiculous statement. Loney has been our hottest hitter for a month-- the only thing driving this offense at all. He had an excellent at-bat against the best closer in baseball. He just grounded out. Sometimes players ground out. Even good players.

335
I sat through a 30-minute presentation at SABR38 by Dick Cramer and Pete Palmer that confirmed their belief that there is no such thing as a clutch hitter.

It's not that the Dodgers don't have good clutch hitters. They don't have good hitters.

The situation is immaterial. Or else the Dodgers could sign 8 Scott Fletchers to play the field and have the clutchiest team of all time.

337. short term memory my friend. Anyway the whole batting order was pathetic this series.

337 . He's a Bum.

342 - Since you are a blue monkey, I assume that you are talking about the Bums. Same could be said about the Halos.

Actually, one could argue that the Angels have exceptionally good pitching. I think the rest of the AL would agree with that statement.

Giving big recognition to Martin and the pitching staff. Martin is doing a terrific job with all of the pitchers and implementing the game plan outlined by Torre and the advance scouts.
They shut Vladdy down.

The thing that gets to me about this offense is just looking at some of the names of guys who are being productive this year. The Cardinals were being led by freaking Skip Schumaker, Ryan Ludwick, and a converted pitcher (even with Pujols out). John Bowker would be tied for the lead on this team in home runs. Fred Lewis would be out best hitting outfielder. 3 players on Pittsburgh not names Jason Bay would lead our team in OPS by a huge margin. Its just sad.

347 . Maybe it'll all change, like... Monday after this coming.

There is tremendous interest on my part to see how Furcal, Jones, and Nomar do for Las Vegas this week.

if the Dodgers win 2 out of every 3 from here on out, I don't care how many hits they get.

What're you, burgess meredith?

By the way, I've spent the last week trying to impress people I actually know by telling them the tale of my replacing the hinges and back cover of the screen on my laptop (second laptop in a row to have the hinges freeze, and bust through the cover--is that an engineered obsolescence thing? I'm sure I use my computers more than most people use theirs, but I don't feel like I'm beating them up. . . anyway). But nobody cares. So, I call on the people of DT to celebrate my accomplishment. I'd like at least three attaboys, please. And maybe somebody could give me a cool nickname, playing on my handiness. The Fixer, or something. I don't know.

Catching up with the news at the Dodger.com site and Torre's thoughts, I can say that starting Jones in center and batting Pierre second will lead to disastrous results and inevitable loss. Of course with BB, miracles could reverse this, or more likely, it won't happen for health and fate.
So we still have a chance and only the baseball Gods know why.

352 Let me guess, Dell laptops?

God bless you--striking a blow against marketing, consumerism and obsolescence.
I dub thee-----Andrew the acomplisher--destroyer of globalism. This is good.

352 Attaboy, Attaboy, Attaboy!!
Or maybe a squeeel.

Well done.

He's mister hingemeister,
he's a shinmin,
he's mister hingemeister,
he's mister unfrozen screen

They call him hingemeister, whatever breaks, he simplys puts screws in its place, he's too much.

Okay, it doesn't work as nice as the original song, but I tried.

352 I'll give you an Attaboy, but I can't offer a nickname. Frankly, the Attaboy is offered based on the fact that I cannot possibly do what you have described, which is also why I cannot provide a nickname.

354- The last one was an HP; this one's an Acer. At least with this one, the damage was isolated and the damaged parts were replaceable for fifty bucks.

See? This is all I wanted! Internet people are way better than real life people.

According to Tony Jackson, Pierre is not going to Houston for tomorrow's game and will have an MRI instead.

If it's OK, Pierre will rejoin the team Tuesday. Young will be the likely leadoff man Monday night. If Pierre gets DLed, it will be time for the triumphant return of Repko!

Atta boy Andrew!

Okay, why do cats feel they have to interrupt our catnaps? If that's not ironic, it's at least cruel.

360 Yeah, and I think Jackson was being facetious about Repko batting lead off. Or at least I presume he was. Who knows. But Pee Wee batting lead off would be kind of cool.

Btw, check out the Score Bard's latest on the Humbug blog if you haven't already.

Kevin Pearson on the P-E blog:

"Dodgers LF Juan Pierre, who has been invaluable to the team this season, injured his left knee while sliding into second base on a steal in the sixth inning."

I looked up the word "invaluable," and it turns out it doesn't actually mean "not valuable" so I don't know what Kevin Pearson has been watching.

Unvaluable would be more appropriate, though perhaps I am unfair. I hope the team feels Furcal is ready to return, and not just Furcal.

Pierre has had some games where he was valuable, definitely. And many more where he was un-valuable. Then some where he was just inadvisable or incalculable or just inconceivable.

(And I still don't wish anything serious on him. Just keep him out long enough for Ethier and Kemp to mash. And Delwyn to say, "Look I can hit leadoff." And then Furcal to come back. And Jones to show he's ready. And then Pierre can come back. Right before the trade deadline.)

I hope somebody is documenting all these adjectives that have been used to describe the guy with the 70 OPS+. "Great." "Invaluable." We can go back and read them years from now. It'll be like going back to 1929 and reading the quotes about how the stock market's future looked sunny, or the quotes in 1932 from all the people who thought Hitler was harmless.

I'm shocked since that story (Pierre, Jones and some type of platoon with Ethier and Kemp) was posted before the game on Press-Enterprise, Daily News and Dodgers.com site, that this site hasn't melted down into Rule 1 violations.

Get well soon, Juan. What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.

368 I'm shocked you haven't told us everything is going to be alright, yet. ; )

Check out the "Recommendation" they make for Matt Kemp on his Yahoo web page. They are normally not intentionally humorous but this one is.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7780/news

337 & 340 I think the frustration over Loney's game-ending AB is that even though he's been hitting well for a month, there has been very little run production out of him in the same period. Not much in the way of clutch hitting. And this AB was about as clutch as one could be, and his body language, to me at least, was very passive. I'm sure he didn't try to ground out weakly to second, but one can understand the frustration. And waaaay back to the Simers column, I think in his mangled way, he was criticizing a perceived sense of entitlement that he feels the young Dodgers have. A sense of entitlement without the results to back it up. Just trying to interperet the column into English, is all.

On the postgame Steiner and Monday called Pierre "a huge loss"... that they'd miss his stolen bases and his ability to manufacture runs yada yada. Someone notify firejoemorgan.com.

Is a Dodger Dog really $6.50?

20 runs in 48 games. Huge loss.

Will Pierre land on the DL? Has Pierre ever been on the DL?
Proctor wanted to go his entire career without being on the DL.
Lots of DL for the Dodgers this year.
Is the signing of Gary Bennett the cause of this?

Pierre's never been on the DL his entire career.

366 You are dreaming dreams I would love to dream. It's getting close to a time on the East Coast where I can try and drift off to a world where Andrew is OK, Furcal comes back healthy, and everyone else including Delwyn is mashing!

Incidentally--and back to reality, Jones must have taken this time to lose weight, get in shape and work out in the gym and the cage. Although most men would have invested a few million for income in his position, I can't believe someone would give up on the big contracts so easily.

371

... more from rotoworld:
"Juan Pierre left Sunday's game because of a left leg injury sustained sliding into second base.

With Andruw Jones set to return this week, the Dodgers would benefit if Pierre landed on the disabled list. As is, he's set to remain the regular left fielder, leaving superior players Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier to battle for at-bats. Jun. 29 - 6:51 pm et"

If JP goes on the DL, back of envelope calculation would have $80 million in salaries there out of the $113 million total.

We lost Furcal and it led to Pierre playing everyday not to mention Hu/Berroa everyday.

Now, we have the probability of getting Furcal back and losing Pierre so Ethier and Kemp can play everyday. We are so doomed! I just don't understand how one man can fool so many people. We are much better off without him. That's from a baseball perspective.

As a person he is one gutsy son of a gun and I wish him a speedy recovery. He would play on a broken leg and he loves the game a lot. But, the idea his absence makes the team worse could not be further from the truth. Losing a leadoff batter with a .293 OBP won't hurt the team. DL Pierre and play Young against righties and Repko against lefties until the break. Pierre is completely worthless if he tries to run at less than 100%. Play it safe.

372 And waaaay back to the Simers column, I think in his mangled way, he was criticizing a perceived sense of entitlement that he feels the young Dodgers have. A sense of entitlement without the results to back it up.

And if that's true, is that news? Talk to just about any kid from age 10 to about 27/28 (for some even older). I think you will find that most have a sense of entitlement. It's not something specific to just these young Dodger players.

That's what I don't understand. That is the youth of today. That's what you get. If you refused to sign any young player that had a sense of entitlement, pretty soon the rosters would be bare.

With another manager and GM, I would have taken Torre's extolling of JP as great, in the face of a lot of hard evidence to the contrary, as a prelude to a trade. Now, we will never know, well, until Ned writes his memoirs. Dang.

As someone between the ages of 10 to about 27/28, I am slightly offended.

384 - Talk about entitlement! ;-)

385
See we have to tell Fanerman five times how to feel entitled, but Nate Purcell feels entitled the first time we tell him.

I humbly ask Bob Timmermann, Bob Hendley, and ChicagoDodger to teach me the ways of feeling entitled as a youth between the ages of 10 and about 27/28.

384 And slightly offended is a small price to pay for that wonderful age.

382 - If anyway seems to display a sense of entitlement, it would be Kent. As a future HOF, I can't argue that he hasn't earned it over his career. The only other outward display of such, that I can recall, would be Andre and some of his remarks coming out of ST, but I think that most of us here at DT figured that he had earned the LF spot.

I'd like to stay and chat but I have to get some kids off my lawn.

You'd think that the blue jays would scare them away.

Talk to just about any kid from age 10 to about 27/28 (for some even older). I think you will find that most have a sense of entitlement.

I think a lot of that comes from the everyday lies children are told by adults, things like "everybody is smart enough to go to college" and "you can be whatever you want to be if you put your mind to it."

It's the downside of the era of political correctness.

Honestly, I don't know where the entitlement stuff comes from when it comes to Loney specifically, at least. I'm not in the locker room with the guy (sorry Buzz, I don't have a press pass) but I never get the sense that he acts above everyone or isn't up for learning and whatever else.

I feel like some of these reporters, at least, play into the veterans' mentality that is somewhere along a Scooby Doo villain: "If it wasn't for these meddling kids..."

You think maybe God was so offended by Torre's pledge to play Pierre every day that He struck him down to prevent it? OK, how about... Pierre heard rumors that he was going to be traded so he got injured to prevent it? Well, what if...

391 - Hah hah. Actually I don't even have a lawn. I have a porch, and three planters full of veggies and herbs. Even the blue jays have moved on. I'd pay to have a lawn and kids on it that I can yell at.

I feel the urge to move a trashcan.

395

Herbs, huh?

396

That's what God said to himself this morning when he decided to injure Juan Pierre.

397 LOL.

393 agreed, every time I see loney interviewed he seems calm, quiet, humble, and laid back. Pompousness, cockiness, and a sense of entitlement are the last things that come to mind when i think of James Loney

Hey, when is DT Bay Area going to a game?

397 - Your typical City-by-the-Bay victory garden, no doubt.

400 In his interviews, he comes off as having the personality of an amoeba.

403 A very nice, courteous amoeba, of course.

403 - Jeez, talk about faint praise.

401 Let's not make it in August, because I'm not gonna be in town for most of August.

James Loney: The Amoeba.

I think we have resolved the nickname issue.

Oh no.

406

Oh, so you want to go to one that still means something...that didn't work out too well for us last time.

Who bats leadoff if Pierre sits out:

1. Berroa
2. Maza
3. Newly Acquired Guy Who Gets On Base An Awful Lot

Perhaps, from the veterans perspective, the young players are supposed to kiss the vets butts, and when they don't, it's misconstrued as having a sense of entitlement.

But the bigger part of this equation was the comment about sense of entitlement without results to back it up. The young players are the only position players (besides Furcal) that are producing. Whatever the young players have, I sure wish the older players would get some of it.

I was slow to realize that today was game #81. We are on track to not have a single player who will crack 20 home runs. Wow.

Where do you draw the veteran line? Is there a DMZ?

Loney can only be Crazy Eyes. Or because I like him so much--Crazy Horse. I wish it could be so.

It is tough enough to hit MLB pitching feeling entitled as in I have been great everywhere I have played and I am confident I can do it here as well.

vs.

Thanks so much for the AB, I know there are so many others more deserving.

411 - Yep, that's how it seems to have been done in the case of JP. Gaze down the bench to see who looks like a lead-off hitter. IIRC, when he was with the Yanks, Torre was so uncomfortable with not having the "type" that they brought in Womack, of all people.

Definition of what TJ Simers describes as "youthful entitlement".

Robot Made of Nails approaches Simers in the Dodgers Clubhouse before a recent game and stands facing him, looks at the top of Simers' head and laughs ...

Simmers must feel he is entitled to write what he writes.

415 - Sorry, Sporky has spoken. Perhaps we can make it Bug-eyed Amoeba. Its like "squee", it will grow on you.

Simers is a robot made of stupid.

421 - Ha! I have always thought of M. Sweeney to be a robot made of snails.

411 According to Torre, according to Jackson, it's

1) Young
2) Kemp
3) quick return of Pierre

According to Jackson himself (just speculating), in absence of 3) it's Repko.

I'm shocked since that story (Pierre, Jones and some type of platoon with Ethier and Kemp) was posted before the game on Press-Enterprise, Daily News and Dodgers.com site, that this site hasn't melted down into Rule 1 violations.

Apathy has set in.

410 I'm forever the optimist.

397 Yeah, {cough} catnip, actually.

No, cooking herbs, ya young whippersnapper!

420 Yeah, I'm barnacly like that.

Although my association with 'squee' is kind of embarrassing.

410 You guys should go to the one next weekend; I won't be able to come, so then you can't blame me for them losing. (I wish I could go, though.)

Well, it's either August or the last series in September. I'm away soon after the August series but could do that one; that way if they lose, we can't blame Fanerman. And the late Sept one.

Repko's not in the Las Vegas lineup tonight. I wouldn't be surprised to see him leading off in CF tomorrow for the Dodgers.

It'll be nice to see Jason back in the bigs. Always liked the fellow.

429
Repko is not allowed to be in the same city as Furcal.

429 - Gotta think that Pee Wee would be in the lineup against Oswalt.

429 - Good eye. He'd could be on a plane to Houston soon so they're probably playing it safe so he doesn't run into any walls. I like Repko :)

Also, Young shouldn't have any problems playing left field at Minute Maid. There's little to no room to move in left. Anything over his head is probably gone or off the Crawford Boxes.

I agree about Kent and his "sense of entitlement." He's an unpleasant and bitter (why?) human being. Example: A few weeks ago, there was a shot in the dugout of DeWitt clearly asking Kent a question having to do with whether he should've gone home or to first on a throw the previous inning, and Kent blew him off. Re Simers, I was referring to his column having to do with "the PERCEPTION of entitlement" on the part of the younger players. I have no problems with Kemp, Loney, Either et al -- except Kemp's refusal to concentrate on the base paths. I have to go now and take off my prosthetic leg and beat my dog.

433 - Safe for the walls?

428 I'd be down for this weekend if anybody else wants to go.

For those fans who don't follow the team closely, JP's injury can be filed into the category "Blessings in Disguise"

For the rest of us, this is [fill in the blank]

396 - "I feel the urge to move a trashcan".

Be careful Sporky, we all know what happened to Attaboy Shimmin. Of course, he apparently has titanium trashcans.

This team is run by fools. The mainstream media is drunk, mentally challenged, or completely oblivious. The manager is Bizarro-Daredevil, in that he can see, yet has the superhuman ability to utterly flub every major action that is needed.

This is why humanity has video games. At least when Old Snake robs somebody at gunpoint and crushes the guy's groin with his hand, I can pretend that it's a member of the conspiring LA baseball idiots, who somehow manage to actually get paid for their work.

439 I play as Old Snake with the MGS1 face camo

Xavier Paul is having a slightly better year than Repko.

(Sorry... I momentarily drifted off into a world where the Dodgers make player personnel decisions based on merit. Won't let it happen again.)

437 - At the game this afternoon those were the first words out of my mouth. Then I immediately thought about what Torre said this morning and it's funny how this game works sometimes.

Repko's fine as a 4th outfielder. As long as he stays away from Furcal. He has some experience. He probably won't play much if he is called up. I'm fine with him.

439 Other than that how'd you like the play Mrs. Lincoln?

On the topic of things that make me happy, by the way, I heart Metal Gear Solid 4. Ned Colletti wishes he could rock a mustache like Snake.

Young - Kemp - Ethier
DeWitt (LaRoche) - Berroa - Kent (DeWitt) - Loney
Stults
Martin

Young
Ethier
Martin
Loney
Kemp
Kent (DeWitt)
DeWitt (LaRoche)
Berroa
Stults

Just a thought ...
(Alternative thought) ...

With Stults pitching in this lineup the black hole is almost gone.
This is a case where it could make sense to bat Stults #8 in the batting order.

Why not try the alternative lineup until Furcal returns?

436

I'm already going to Friday's game with other people. We'll have to figure something out for later this season.

looks like i missed an interesting game for my niece's baptism. Did get to see the bottom of the ninth and was wondering why Young was hitting in front of Ethier.

I'm really not sure about my thoughts on Pierre. I never want to see a guy get hurt. At the same time, I've voiced my frustration with Pierre as much as everyone else around here.

What this is, more than anything, is a very strange season getting even stranger.

I do want to comment on the game itself. Lackey was great. And it would have been tremendous for Loney to get a hit to win the game today off K-Rod. But no such luck. It was a great series to watch and thankfully interleague is over.

Also, can somebody explain to me how you can break the 100 meter dash world record and not have it count because of the wind being to fast at your back? THAT is a stupid rule.

443 - The second Lincoln reference of the day reminds me of being at Nationals Park (I think that's what it's called) on Friday. Don't know how Sam DC and stolenmonkey feel, but I found the running of the presidents to be an abomination. Teddy R has a grotesque grin on his face and the others (George, Jefferson and Lincoln) look like they were dug up from the grave. DC as Disneyland. There was a jocular moment, as it were, when the Orioles Bird tripped Teddy. Perhasp I am being too sensitive.

441 - I noticed that, and Ruan as well. But gotta think that its better for them to keep playing in Vegas for now, rather than being the 4th outfielder in LA. But what do I know.

I like the presidents race.

I must admit, it does sound witty.

449 I thought that was hilarious in a right of the Simpsons kind of way. Since it wasn't actually The Simpsons, it's a little more disquieting. But I still laughed.

I missed the game today (no Extra Innings) so I had no idea Pierre was hurt until I just read it here. Is it bad? Can he walk? Will it be season ending surgery? Sorry, I was getting a little excited there. In reality, it looks like I will be reverting to my beginning of the season Torre hating, apathetic self. Pierre over Kemp, never seen anything like it.

At mid-season, it really looks like our team's offence certainly isn't winning us any games. Looking at individual OPS+, only Martin is well above league-average at this point. I really hope that one of Kemp, Loney, or Ethier can break out and that Furcal comes back with his April form. Those are our best hopes for improvement at this stage. Some addition by subtraction will also help, of course. If Jones can have an OPS+ of more than 110 for the rest of the year, that will also be a bonus.

J.D. Drew is having a monster year. How great would it be to still have him in the lineup? I'm not a big Colletti basher, but looking back, not re-signing him was probably the most regrettable decision of his tenure here. Somewhere around $100 million (Pierre, Garciaparra, Jones) has been spent in an effort to replace what we lost in Drew. Sad.

448
What's hard to understand about someone not getting a sprint record because they had an aiding wind? Or am I not understanding your question?

As I think I said here earlier, Pierre's supposed status - before his injury mind you - has as much to do with uncertainty about Jones. I still think if Jones actually came back and looked like Jones of 2 years ago (or even last year!) that might change things a bit. There's a lot of supposition based on things the Dodgers, Torre, the players, and we the fans, have no idea how they'll pan out, and Jones is a big part of that. I still believe Kemp and Ethier will get a lot of playing time, even separate from Pierre's injury status. I don't get the old school love of Pierre and all, but I also think a lot of things are being assumed based on manager and GM PR-speak without knowing everything they really believe or really plan on, not to mention the unpredictability of the currently disabled players.

455 Last year's stat line would not have been well received, .270/.373/.423, 11 home runs, by the media who would have one, derided Drew for taking the arbitration route, two, derided the Dodgers for signing him for 2 more years and more money and three, again Drew's production in 2007.

Today in Florida, they did a modern president's race with Bush #1, Clinton, and Reagan vs. Marty the Marlin.

Bush #1 pulled up with a hammy out of the gate, Clinton stopped racing to converse with two strategically placed ball girls on the side of the field, and Reagan got confused and ran into the wall.

Marty won.

Weaver, Lackey, and Oswalt in a row. That is a tough road to hoe.

I find it funny that when Pierre is at his best he's still not better then what has to sit for him, but when he's at his worse, he gets platitudes up the wazoo. He is actually playing the worse baseball of his career but they just can't get enough of him. Actually it is not funny, it is painful. Painfully funny.

448 To set the land speed record with a motor vehicle, your official speed is the average of two trials (done within an hour) - once into the wind, and once against. That seems fair in that field. Obviously, asking sprinters to do the same is different, so the compromise is discriminating against runners who have the benefit of too much tailwind. That makes sense to me.

414 Where do you draw the veteran line? Is there a DMZ?

That would be me. Making 40 years old the veteran line.

456 - No, I understand the rule. But, I don't understand why the record wouldn't stand because of wind. They don't call home runs ground rule doubles because of the wind blowing out.

Also, what's Kenny Lofton doing these days?

Humph..I guess you guys are right. When I lived in Argentina, the Argies loved the Simpsons, but were a little sheepish about it in front of me. They were actually surprised when I told them that I, as well as millions of Americans, liked them, and that we had no problem in laughing at ourselves. They didn't understand that.

463
The record stands but is noted as "wind-aided." It's sort of like the Weaver-Arredondo "no-hitter."

There is also a separate listing for records set at altitude, but they are not stigmatized the same way as "wind-aided" records. The Mexico City Olympics had a bunch of records that lasted for a long time: long jump, 100, 200, 400.

The altitude listing does not come into play for middle distances and higher.

456 - What was your stance on Beamon's world record?

The Radar O' Riley of DT, rather I would be Col. what's his name.

466
I liked Bob Beamon's record because it gives me a metaphor for whenever anyone breaks a record in some endeavor by a wide margin

"He Beamoned it!"

Even though Mike Powell has had the record for a very long time.

458 You're right, of course. The re-signing would have been blasted by the Times for a good solid year and a half. Sigh.

some minor league stuff....

Kyle Russell: 1-3 2bb, k, hbp. on the season, 13bb and 14k in 45AB. Dodgers need to refine his swing somehow this offseason to cut down on the strikeouts without sacrificing too much power.

Javier Solano: 3IP 1H 0ER 2bb 2k 3.86era. I just have a feeling Solano is going to become a top pitching prospect for us.

Lambo: 0-3 bb, k. Hes at 289/350/464 at 19 years old on the season. To put that into perspective, league average is 250/321/370 with the average age being 21.7 years old. So basically, he is right on track, hitting well in a league that suppresses offense.

Carlos Santana: 4-4 3b, bb. On the season so far in 259 ABs, 38 XBHs with a k/bb ratio of 41/52. If this isn't breaking out, I don't know what is. Average age for the CAL League is almost 23 years old so Santana at 22 is right where he should be. I'm expecting a promotion within the next couple of weeks.

Austin Gallagher: 3-4 2b 3b bb. Thats 20 XBHs in 129ABs with a very respectable 30/13 k/bb ratio. I was really disappointed when he didn't the Loons roster and pleasantly surprised when he showed up on the 66ers roster. At 19 years old, with his size and his current contact rates, He is a pretty exciting prospect right now. I believe his power will definitely develop and he is already showing an advanced feel for the strike zone. Dodgers might have hit back to back homeruns in the 3rd and 4th rounds of the 2007 draft.

James McDizzle: 6IP 5H 0ER 1bb 9k. He started the season really slow, but that was attributed to a dead arm phase he was going through. Now at full health, he is steaming through the Southern League; almost as easy as he was last summer. Last 10 Games: 56IP 43H 23bb 58k 2.57era. He is coming on strong and might warrant a call-up if we need another pitcher.

Andale Javier!

Remember that J.D. Drew is a malingerer and doesn't play through pain. Scott Proctor is a warrior!

Last year's stat line would not have been well received, .270/.373/.423,

And yet, it was still much better than Juan Pierre's.

So in summary...

Even after all our graduations within the last two years, the Dodgers have reloaded the system really quickly. This isn't even taking into account some of the younger pitcher prospects like Martin and Withrow who we know just by their pedigree, are going to probably do pretty well themselves.

So by the time some of our current youngsters are up for arbitration money and we have to make a decision whether to invest long term or not, having these players as backup plans will definitely help the GM who needs to make those decisions (whoever that person may be because i don't believe its going to be Colletti).

Nate, its my opinion that DeJesus is the best prospect in the Dodger organization.

Would you agree?

His age, position, and OBP in the southern league is out of this world.

I think he should be given the job for 2009, ahead of Furcal.

Anyone else feel the same?

457 Since Andruw Jones went out and before's today's game, here are the stat lines for the 3 remaining outfielders.

Pierre - .265/.296/.309
Kemp - .258/.308/.423
Ethier - .237/.286/.407

While Jones was on the active roster:

Pierre - .290/.342/.309
Kemp - .323/.370/.466
Ethier - .281/.349/.425

I'm not sure how the rotation system played into these stats and you are talking about a larger sample size for the numbers with Jones than without. But they are what they are.

If Pierre has a Carson Palmer injury (doubtful, but who knows), I have a feeling Ned is going to trade a bunch of good young players for an outfielder.

470 Thanks for those. (And KRussell's power numbers sure look good so far though, small sample size notwithstanding.)

Re: Santana, where would he get promoted to, though? Isn't Lucas May at Jacksonville? Could they both be there, or is May due to get bumped to Vegas? (And I know Ellis is considered less of a prospect, but doesn't he also affect that decision?) Anyway, will be interesting to see. And to think some thought the Dodgers were barren at catcher in the minors after Russell Martin. (I thought that at the time, but May and Santana moved on in and up pretty quickly.)

475

He is #3 for me behind McDonald and Elbert. Elbert's last outing was really encouraging for me (3IP 1H 1bb 7k). If he can get back to where he was pre-surgery, he's a better prospect than DeJesus.

With Ivan's power being basically non-existent- I know I've asked this before but- will his patience translate to the majors when pitchers realize if they just throw it down the middle of the plate, he's not going to really do much with it?

Also, Ivan played 2b. Is that because Dodgers love versatility or is something wrong with his defense at short? Coming into this season, scouting reports were very good on his defense though.

478

I could see a DH/C combo between the two of them. Catching is grueling and not everyone has the same energy as Russ Martin. I'm sure rotation them in the humidity of Florida in August would not be a bad thing.

I just think Santana's peripherals are just too good for the CAL League. He needs another challenge offensively.

479 And even without the power, he still strikeouts 11-13% of the time.

481

Which is excellent I know. All I'm asking is some line drive, gap-gap power to keep pitchers honest. If that can happen with maturation, he's a perfect #2 hitter.

I think they should end the Meloan as a starter experiment. He got lit up today, although his K rates are good.

482 No, you misunderstood me, even without the power he has struck out more than he walks and I am afraid that once he starts seeing better pitching, he won't be able to work counts to get walks.

470 Thanks Nate. I enjoyed that.

476 That's very interesting. The data do support the idea that a little bit of job insecurity makes these guys play better. I don't want to get into this, but it also supports the idea of a double standard - Pierre "has been great", in Torre's eyes, while Kemp/Ethier are facing a platoon type situation. I do understand, however, that management is impatient for these guys to continue improving, and using the incentive of less playing time is one way to motivate better performance. Pierre is through with his development, but the lack of playing time seemed to motivate him as well. With all the usual caveats about small sample sizes etc.

472 AND he clogs up the bases all the time. I almost forgot about that.

I am not half the warrior that Scott Proctor is, that's for sure. It's bed time for me here on the East coast.

484

Who are we talking about here?

I was talking about De Jesus...he has more walks than Ks...

Ken Noe saw the Dodgers and Angels combine for 2 runs, its likely the next MLB game he attends, those teams will likely score that much before the 3rd inning is over.

486 I'm talking over his career in the minors and the stats I am looking at, its only 2 more walks than strikeouts for this year, that can change by the end of the year.

488

This year hes at 53bb 46k and his rates have gotten better every year; increasing his walks and lowering his strikeouts.

2005 Rookie Ball combined: 16bb 40k
2006 Low A: 63bb 85k
2007 high A: 57bb 64k
2008 AA: 53bb 46k

477

No way. NedCo has Jones to lean on now. Since he's going back into the lineup, with a handy Delwyn Young on the bench, and with a possible return of Furcal, we have all the depth we need right here.

The LAST thing Ned would ever do is trade youngsters to replace Juan Pierre. The worst he could possibly do is nab Moises Alou off the waiver wire or something like that, assuming the Mets release him. Even that won't happen with Repko waiting in the wings.

481 -- As a rule of thumb, you want to see a hitting prospect's strikeout totals be no worse than about one-fifth of his AB's (not plate appearances). DeJesus has a VERY low whiff rate.

475 -- I am surprised by your enthusiasm for a hitting prospect with absolutely no power, though I understand how the walks would attract you. Best prospect in the system? No, but he is legitimately in the 2 to 5 range.

491

Canuck, who do you feel is the best prospect on the Odgen team right now?

Man, the GCL team doesn't really look too exciting in terms of positional players doesn't it?

We are at the half way point for many teams. What is the bigger surprise? The 150:1 Rays with the best record in baseball. The Mariners, Padres and Rockies with the three worst records in all of baseball. Or the Giants being only 5 games out?
vr, Xei

492 -- Probably Javier Solano, although I wish I knew why he isn't starting. The next best might be Geison Aguasviva. Kyle Russell is the new Sergio Pedroza. Remember how he hit .500 and slugged over .700 in 12 games in the Pioneer League after he was drafted, in 2005? Now Pedroza's 24 and way over his head in Double A. Same thing is going to happen to Russell. And Pedroza didn't even strikeout much in the Pioneer League.

493 - Um, yes?

The Rays are definitely surprising to me. I'd figured they'd be 4th in the AL East with an outside shot at being competitive (and figured they'd maybe be good enough to compete in a couple of years). I think most knew the Padres were due to fall apart, I just think a lot of us had that scheduled for 2009, not 2008. I can't explain the Rockies, other than bad timing with injuries. As for the Giants, well, they're 5 games out by default.

494

I think the Dodgers know what they have with Solano and they are babying him a bit. He's only 18 years old. When Ethan Martin starts pitching (what the hell is he doing now anyways?), he'll probably get the 3 inning out treatment as well.

496 He hasn't signed, Tony Jackson says that his advisor are asking for more than slot but they will probably take the Dodgers slot offer of around $1.75M when everything is done. Jackson noted that White was in the Dominican so it may take a while to get him signed.

493

Hello again, Xei. Let's talk surprises!

The 150:1 Rays with the best record in baseball.

Gotta be the biggest surprise so far. I knew they'd be very good, and I predicted them to win 85 games this year, but I never thought they'd be THIS good. It's such a great story.

The Mariners: worst record in AL

Not surprising at all. That team was mismanaged for years and I still can't believe anybody was predicting them to win a wild card. They have some decent hitters, but that Adam Jones trade was HORRIBLE. And, what do you know? The O's are above .500 .

Padres in last place

I'm with KG16.

The Rockies

The Rockies' predicament is the least surprising development in MLB this year. If I could have called anything, I was calling the Rockies to come crashing down to earth. I felt the same way about the Dbacks but I'm not convinced they regressed to the mean yet.

Giants 5 games out

I didn't think this was so surprising. That they're only 5 out is surprising, but that they're competing doesn't shock me. Early on I felt their starting pitching was too good for a last place team. No way, I thought, could they lose 100 games. They've been ok from time to time. Rowand and Molina are hitting rather well so far.

What's Withrow doing these days.

496, I must have missed that. Was that in an article or a blog post?

493
How about the Oakland A's?
Did you think that their record would be this good before the season began? How do you think they'll end up?

Funny that Ivan Junior doesn't have his Dad's speed but does have the patience that would have made Ivan Senior a much better ballplayer.

Yes, BH I think several things are going to happen with Ivan Junior. His patience will play in the big leagues and he will develop more gap power. I have nothing to base this on other then my own subjective opinion. Unlike Joey there is no way I give the job to Ivan Junior next year. He won't be ready until 2010 for the bigs. He was the only Dodger prospect to make the futures team. I included a little scouting report on him from HQ over at True Blue.

Canuck and Nate what do you think about all the LH behemoths that Logan has been signing over the last 3 years? History has not been kind to players 6'5 or taller. Your either great or your nothing and not many have been great.

500 Its in the comments section.

http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/2008/06/white-sox-6-dod.html

501. The A's are hanging in there. Let's see how they do against the Angels this week. Before the season started I had the Angels in first and Mariners in last, with both the A's and Rangers fighting it out for 2nd place around the .500 mark.
vr, Xei

503
I'm going to start telling people I'm 6'4" now.

504

If Logan is in the Dominican, we might have some talent coming in around july 2nd.

503

I find it interesting. We went from having virtually no left handed power to well... a lot. Hopefully one of them will turn into a big league slugger. Though as you said, history isn't on their side.

Records when scoring 2 runs or less

CO 6-22 .214
AZ 4-17 .190
SD 6-29 .171
SF 4-21 .160
LA 1-30 .032

Last year, the Dodgers were 8-42 in those games.

503 -- Logan has always liked lefties, be they pitchers or hitters, and getting some really big hitters looks like an attempt to get more power into the system. Perhaps even a desperate attempt.

Hmm. I think this is what's going to happen.

Pierre will not go on the DL. He's a gamer. Torre will be impressed by his gameriness and put him in the lineup every day, even if his speed is neutralized by his messed-up knee. He'll hit about .100, won't be able to steal bases, and will have to play deeper LF, meaning his throws will land somewhere about 50 feet from the shortstop hole. And Torre will be delighted.

You think Pierre was bad before. I predict we're about to see Pierre try to be like Furcal 2007.

503 "all the LH behemoths that Logan has been signing over the last 3 years? History has not been kind to players 6'5 or taller. Your either great or your nothing and not many have been great."

That's kind of what you want, though, isn't it? The last thing you want is for those guys to turn into average, Ethier-type hitters, because they'll all probably end up at first base and a first baseman who hits like Andre Ethier will only hurt your team. Better to take a bunch of high-ceiling, all or nothing guys. If four of them crash and burn but the other one turns into Jim Thome, then you can consider yourself successful.

511 see 184 . You are not alone.

Probable Roster Moves in the next few days.

1. If Pierre goes on the DL, Repko brought up from Vegas.
2. Prior to Wednesday's game, Troncoso optioned, Kuroda activated from 15-day DL.
3. If Penny passes his simulated game, prior to Saturday, Falkenborg DFA (or if they decide this 6-man rotation is not going to be used, Stults optioned, Penny activated from 15-day DL.
4. If Furcal passes through his rehab stint, Furcal activated from 15-day DL, Berroa optioned to Vegas.
5. If Nomar deems himself fit to play, than several things could happen. First, someone is going to have be removed from the 40-man roster. Off the active roster, the choices could be Sweeney or Maza. My hunch is that it will be Maza. While the Dodgers will still search for a legitimate utility player who can play 2B/SS, if Furcal and Nomar are both activitated, they will probably keep LaRoche as the back up at 2B and Nomar will be the back up SS. The reason I think Sweeney survives is that if Pierre is hurt, Young will play in the OF and they won't have another left-hand bat on the bench.

So a week from today, the 25-man roster could look like this:

Pitchers (12): Penny, Lowe, Kuroda, Billingsley, Kershaw, Stults, Wade, Beimel, Kuo, Park, Broxton and Saito.
Catchers (2): Martin and Ardoin
Infield (7): Loney, Kent, Furcal, Garciaparra, DeWitt, LaRoche and Sweeney
Outfield (4): Ethier, Kemp, Young and Repko.

514 If Pierre is going to be out for a while, when Jones comes back, they could option Repko back to Vegas, DFA Sweeney, purchase Ramon (Lucille II)Martinez's contract and option DeWitt back to Vegas.

It may or may not matter, but this series is where Kemp, Ethier and Young need to step up and make some noise (with their bats) about being beched....

Isn't Mark Bellhorn in the minors with us? Wouldn't he be a better option than Berroa?

Who led the bullpen in appearances last week?

Well, here are the usage rates for the last 6 days:

Falkenborg - 3 games
Wade - 3 games
Troncoso - 2 games
Broxton - 2 games
Saito - 2 games
Beimel - no appearances
Kuo - no appearances

517. Is Guo still on the team. :)
He hasn't pitched in a week now. Torre also gave him a 10 day stretch with no appearances from 6/1-6/11. Guo last 20 innings... 1-ER, 21-K, 2-BB, 0-HR, 13-Hits. Numbers good enough to be our closer.
vr, Xei

Is there any good reason to use your worst relievers more than any one else? It's not like we've only had blowouts the last week.

Im certainly no fan of the Torres decisions on playing time, but re: Kuo he maybe right to limit his innings. It's working. He is on pace to toss 93 IP this year and it's by far his best season. Maybe this pace is all his arm can take.

521 Problem is that a lot of those have been garbage time. He's only seen 24 high leverage situations this year, to go with 62 medium leverage and 99 low leverage.

522

Yea, but then again- he has had a lot to prove... that should get better given his stellar first half.
Man, our pitching has been amazing.

520 Well, Troncoso pitched in games where the run diffential was 5 either way. Wade only pitched in games when the Dodgers were trailing. Falkenborg pitched in 2 games where the team was trailing and in Friday's 6-0 shutout (it 3-0 when he pitched).

519--I think Torre's saving Kuo in the event that a long relief appearance is needed.

Thats why Wade/Falkenborg have been used in their 1-inning stints instead of Kuo.

Stults/Park/Wade almost make up for how bad Penny's been this year. Those 3 have been amazing.

522 I think the issue is that the way the Dodger games have been going this year, there really isn't many games where you have had a 3 or less run lead with 3 innings to go.

Will Ex-Angel prospect Dallas McPherson get another shot at the big leagues?

He's got 28 home runs at AAA Albuquerque--> Marlins affiliate.

Putting up some monster Billy Ashley/Jack Cust type AAA stats:

.311/.425/.705

526 Actually looking through the numbers, you're right. Beimel and Park have higher leverage, but I was surprised to see that Kuo was ahead of Proctor.

Granted, Proctor has been pretty good at turning high leverage situations in to low leverage ones.

514 - I would assume that Sweeney survives until Jones is ready to be activated, at which point Young reverts back to being the primary LH PH.

515 - I would also be in favor of sending DeWitt back down to try to get his bat going again and, more importantly, play 2B almost exclusively to prepare for next season. Replace him with Lindsey or Tiffee for bench duty.

527 I can't verify this, but McPherson is probably leading professional baseball in strikeout rate, well ahead of Ryan Howard. Since he's not walking like Jack Cust, he doesn't deserve the chance.

The Dodgers' record in their "5th starter" spot is 7-6. Its the only rotation spot where the Dodgers have a winning record.

Record when starter is pitching:

Penny/Park: 7-9
Lowe: 9-9
Kuroda/Stults: 8-9
Billingsley/Kuo: 7-10
Loiaza/Kuo/Park/Kershaw: 7-6

Speaking of the A's, and speaking of international signings, sounds like they have indeed won the Inoa sweepstakes (according to Baseball America:)

http://tinyurl.com/572dhg

Sunday morning, Torre called Pierre his everyday left fielder, saying he would continue to be a constant in the lineup even when Andruw Jones made his expected return for the start of the second half of the season. At the time, Torre said that Jones would start in center field and that Andre Ethier and Matt Kemp would split time in right.

Joe Torre wants to win now and everyone knows that if you want to win now, you play the people who know how to win. Ask Larry Bowa, Jeff Kent, ask Ned Colletti. They'll all tell you the same thing and these guys have been around baseball longer than most of us have been alive--the youngsters may get you there but you can't trust them to win games for you. You need the vets. They know how to play the game the right way.

That is the best argument I can make for Joe Torre's decision to play Juan Pierre over Andre Ethier and Matt Kemp. Now, if you want to make an argument based on how productive each player has been, well... you're on your own.

532--I didnt realize how tall Inoa is.

They list him at 6'7 210# as a 16yr old.

I know! I thought that was a misprint til I saw it printed in other sources, too. Yeah, speaking of very tall players... you have to wonder.

Dude is throwing 96 when he's 16, has no coaching and is still pretty skinny. I can think of worse ways to spend four million.

No thats why Frank hired Joe. So when someone questions the manager everyone will say you cant question Joe Torre. He is Joe Torre and he is paid millions more than the last guy . It's clear to me that the attitude has been set that it's not your time yet young guys and so thats how they behave. And it's all economics. I refuse to believe Joe Torre is that ignorant on baseball or that we all are that much smarter.

Fire Frank McCourt.

514 4. If Furcal passes through his rehab stint, Furcal activated from 15-day DL, Berroa optioned to Vegas.

Berroa is out of options.

538 I think we can safely DFA him.

I'm off to Houston with some friends and we will be at the game tonight. When I got my tickets a few weeks ago I had hoped that we would catch Kershaw, but I'll settle for an outfield without Pierre. Go Dodgers!

Ethier in June has played himself out of the lineup.

.194/.256/.389

541
And yet, he still out-OPSed Pierre.

541 If we kicked everyone out of the lineup who had a bad June, we wouldn't have a team.

At no time has a leadoff hitter with a 0.300 OBP in June been so much as hinted at as a problem for this offense by Torre or Ned. It led to a decision to give JP the starting LF spot. Stop the madness. Has anyone seen anything like this before?

Has anyone seen anything like this before?

It's not uncommon for managers to stick and keep guys in the leadoff spot who don't get on base an awful lot. It is, however, uncommon to pay said managers $4 million a year.

544 It may be that Torre and Ned are just being patient; there is that possibility. We are very much in the divisional race, we have been pitching spectacularly well and we are without our most productive player in the lineup. If the bats warm up in July and the pitching stays in the same zip code of where it is now, we'll be good.

At least, I think that's what they're thinking...

The Yankees let Bobby Richardson bat leadoff for most of the 1961 season (117 games). He had an OBP of .297 in the leadoff spot and .295 overall.

The Yankees won 109 games and scored 827 runs.

Just think of how many runs they would have scored that year with somebody getting on base.

The Yankees high OBP guys that year were all power hitters (Maris, Mantle, and Howard.)

Dusty Baker favorite Corey Patterson is clogging the bases at a .231 clip in the #1 spot this season.

547

So all we need is Pujos, A-Rod and Ryan Howard. Then Pierre wont be a problem.

The Braves let Omar Moreno bat leadoff one year. Chuck Tanner felt they needed speed at the top of the lineup and he got that, alright. He didn't get anything else out of Moreno but he got speed.

And hey, didn't the Dodgers use two of their weakest hitters at the top of the order last year? I'm just sayin'...

Patterson has had just 28 starts in the leadoff position and none since June 17.

Jerry Hairston and Jay Bruce seem to have the leadoff job now. With an occasional Norris Hopper or Joey Votto tossed in.

549 That's the point in a nutshell. In order for a team to succeed with a really, really weak bat at the top of the order, you better have some horses behind him.

We don't have the horses.

549
More like Josh Hamilton, Carlos Quentin, and Jorge Posada.

540 "hoped that we would catch Kershaw"

Just go again tomorrow. :-)

Horses. We need horses.

Was Pierre really that much worse (or any worse) than position players other than Martin and Loney in June? I'd go do the figures myself if I knew how. Is there any way to incorporate his base stealing when he did get on base into these figures? He did move over to 2nd and 3rd a few times to score when someone else actually hit a single.

I'm genuinely curious. I know how bad he is at getting on base. But he has seemed more patient since Furcal has been out in May or Jine, and made a few walks and hits as a result. And just about everyone else has been worse than they were before (especially DeWitt, and probably Kemp too). Is there really a big difference still?

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but I thought this article was pretty interesting: http://tinyurl.com/4f337s

At Fangraphs, USS Mariner's Dave Cameron has started a countdown list of the 50 most valuable players in the game. Cameron published 50 to 46 today, and at #50 is James Loney. He says he prefers Loney to Kotchman, Votto, and Conor Jackson.

Hmm, Juan Pierre was 12 for 34 vs Roy Oswalt in the past.

556 I think it's true that most of the Dodgers have been slumping on offense for awhile. Loney got hot recently, a few of the other guys have had a few spurts but yeah overall, it's been team-wide. Pierre was doing pretty well for awhile earlier in the season but definitely dropped off dramatically. As a leadoff guy his OBP went way down and was pretty bad for leadoff.

Pierre's arm alone should have him benched over Ethier. That's not even getting into offensive numbers

556 His stolen bases were worth about a run and he little thinged at a rate of about a run a month last year.

Saying Pierre's arm should send him to the bench is like saying his ability to take the extra base should make him start. It really doesn't mean that much.

he little thinged at a rate of about a run a month last year

He musta productive outed for a fraction of a run here and there as well. And good piece of hittinged.

pierre's arm cost the team a lot more than any of his stolen bases produce. How many DP's does he take the team out of becase the runner takes second or those weak throws to the plate on shallow hits that any other left fielder they don't score his arm kills the team

556 - Pierre hasn't walked since June 6th and has only three walks in the entire month of June. His OBP this month is .301. To answer your question Ethier, Berroa and DeWitt had awful June's.

565 Pierre's arm cost the team 7.5 runs last year and his non stolen base base running runs gave the team about 7.5 runs. They actually cancel each other out nicely.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/best-outfield-arms-of-2007/

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6845

So adding Ethier's arm would add 7.5 runs a season how much will his OPS add in offensive production?

On a positive note, our pitching is great. I just hope we don't heat up the offense and regress in pitching.

No team could possibly have a bigger upgrade then we will going from the Hu/Berroa black hole to Furcal. Even the Furcal of last year would be an upgrade. The historical Furcal would be a plus upgrade. The April Furcal would be a monster upgrade.

We can complain about Pierre's .301 OBP in June but having three automatic outs(DeWitt, Berroa, Pitcher) at the bottom of our lineup is also killing us. We are not turning over the lineup enough to be effective. This will change and when it does watch what the middle of the order will do with their 4th at bat against a struggling starter or middle relief. Right now these guys have to face the teams setup guy or closer in their 4th ab.

This is just a subjective opinion and I've done no study to support this opinion.

Continuing with the positive theme, I'm expecting the Dodgers to win the West. They may even do so without a winning record.

571

I am expecting this too.

571 572 As am I.

Any word on the picnic location?

571

The weird thing about all of this is that we have stayed in the race with horrible offense. It can't get much worse, and if we turn it around, than watch out NL West. I am still amazed we split the series with the Cubs at home and took the series against the Angels. This is a testament to our great pitching, and I feel like things will only get better.

571 Baseball Prospectus gives the Dodgers a 31% chance today of winning the NL West and a 32% chance to make the playoffs. They have a 1% chance to win the wilcard. They are very fortunate to be in the NL west, the worst division in baseball. For example, the Yankees, who are 6 games over .500, have only a 14.6% chance today of making the playoffs (3.5% to win the division, and 11.1% chance to take the wildcard)

557 Man, that Mike Napoli guy is crabby. He takes offense because Kemp described Saturday night's game as having "a playoff atmosphere?" Kemp was just referring to the game being dramatic and the crowd being into it. And how many playoffs has he been to? One, I think.

Napoli has Premature Jeff Kent Syndrome.

I'm kind of PO'ed we don't play the Snakes till after the all-star break.

574 - I really need to get on that.

I think I may be more intersted in the Boston/Tampa game then the Dodger/Astro game tonight.

If anybody could use Sabbathia it is Tampa and they have plenty of guns to get it done. I don't think anyone could come close to matching any package they put out for him.

577 Napoli has Premature Jeff Kent Syndrome.

Heh. Imagine what he'll be like in 10, 15 years.

Hopefully the next time the Dodgers play in a real playoff atmosphere they will respond with a hit.

581 - Walter Matthau.

This "NL West is the worst division in baseball" rap is going to turn around quickly. Arizona, the Dodgers, the Giants and Colorado all have the potential to be legitimate contenders within a year. Is there a division with a more dominant corps of pitchers under 30?

All of a sudden, I'm having a brainstorm. Make the All-Star game into a division vs. division All-Star tournament! With seedings based on combined records.

Day 1: Three elimination games, leaving three next-rounders to go to...

Day 2: Second and third-highest seeded teams play each other.

Day 3: Winner of Day 2 plays highest-seeded team.

Day 3 winner gets to designate some big pot of money to go to charities selected by each team in the division.

No more home run derby. More players get to participate. Fun for all! And then we'll see if the NL West is really "the weakest."

Premature Jeff Kent Syndrome

AKA Premature Ejerkulation.

There a grumpiness indicator, like the Richter or Mohs scale.

*should be

Grumpiness is recorded using the Beaufort scale.

584 The NL West was one of the better divisions in baseball last year so you can see how quickly things can change. I agree that things could turn around again next year with all the young arms.

I don't think the players would be into your All Star division tournament. They hardly care about the single All Star game we currently have.

589. Better yet, instead of having a divisional all-star tournament, why don't they just take the best team from each division and heck even throw in the best non-division winner and have some sort of playoff to see which division representative is the best. They could even play it when the season is over, in October and November. vr, Xei

590
Better yet, instead of taking the best team from each division and even throwing in the best non-division winner and having some sort of playoff to see which division representative is the best, why not using some kind of ranking system involving voters and computers? The top two teams in the rankings at the end of the year could duke it out for the championships, and you could have 14 other series matchups involving the other teams, just for fun.

I thought grumpiness was measured on the Brimsley scale.

588/592 - Not the Mencken Scale?

584 I like this idea! As long as fans can choose the line-ups. ;-)

557 Nice to see that the Dodger-Angel "rivalry" actually has a pulse. However, these recent comments by Napoli and Garland don't add up to much. They sound more like frustration from losing a game where you no-hit your opponent.

Here's some optimism for you: the Dodgers are going to go 59-22 starting today, finishing the season at 97-65.

The BCS Championship Game: This time it counts. Because we say so.

591. Great idea, but I'd suggest having some sort of parade before each game. :)
vr, Xei

590 591
The players, owners, and players union would have absolutely no interest in playing these extra games.

594

Shields had the healthiest perception for Kemp's comments. I just think Napoli and Garland were pissed about losing that way.

RIP ex-LA Times reporter Ken Reich.

Jon links to his site, Take back the Times, on his sidebar.

600 - Wow. He must have been blogging about the Times right to the very end.

598 The players would, if you didn't pay them anything for playing all season.

595 You must be in sales.

599 I would be pissed too! Don't forget that they were shutout the day before as well. Looking back at the series, the Dodgers outscored the Angels 7-1 in the three games. You would expect a sweep in that situation. But not with the Dodger offense. Dodgers should feel fortunate to win one of the last 2 games with their anemic bats.

Will we have an All Star this year?

Reich was also an extremely avid traveler. In this post from May, he writes about having visited his 100th country.

http://takebackthetimes.blogspot.com/2008/05/realization-of-goal-malta-is-my-100th.html

604 But wouldn't the fact that they outscored the Angels 7-1, as you mention, mean winning 2 out of 3, if not sweeping, were still about the "right"/fair outcome?

605 Yes.

First, every team has an All-Star.

Second, either Russell or maybe Chad will be picked by the coaches, I'd bet.

604 The Angels did have good pitching, though. I would've been okay with 1 of 3.

605 Don't we have to, as outlined in the rules?

Praying that Furcal really does return on Friday...

VORP for Dodger shortstops this year...

Furcal 26.7
Maza - negative 2.2
Berroa - negative 5.0
Hu - negative 9.9

605 I think Russell Martin is a lock to be chosen to the All Star team by the coaches. I think Chad B. is a real longshot and would have to do something spectacular in his last few starts to earn a spot. Furcal was a lock before he got hurt.

Even with the tough competition this year, I'd be shocked if Martin is not our representative.

610 VORP speed behind, cap'n!

612
Soto is way ahead in the voting for catcher right now. McCann and Martin are the two most deserving. It looks like they will have to take 3 catchers for the NL. If the Dodgers get only one representative, it would have to be Martin.

Evan Longoria in June:

.309/.378/.670/1.048

He is good at baseball.

The fact that Martin isn't in the top 5 in fan voting is kind of a travesty of a mockery of a sham, but I guess it doesn't matter much since he's not going to finish first, and will get picked by the coaches. Still...seeing both Molina brothers ahead of him kinda irks me.

600 I covered a couple of Peter Uebberoth LA Olympics press conferences alongside Ken Reich, and then when I worked for Tom Bradley had to suffer his presence at our press conferences. Reich was the kind of reporter people like Uebberoth or Bradley hated to see at press events: Unimpressed with the hoopla, dismissive of the story, rude, dogged in pursuing his questions, openly skeptical of the answers. He also acted like the rest of the reporters in the room should make way for him, because he was a Timesman. But in a way, that was part of his honesty. In those days, the Times was more important than TV or the Her-Ex or Daily News, so of course he figured he should ask the most questions: He had more important readers. Reich was the kind of reporter who most of us wanted to be, but couldn't be: A total prick. If those three words were on his headstone, I don't think he would have objected. I never knew him well enough to get behind that persona, but among journalists he was admired, even by those who didn't like him.

616 Giants fans have to vote for someone!

I've said this before. No Martin at the All-Star game. He needs the rest! Let Bengie or Yadier crouch behind the dish for two hours of meaningless baseball. If they'd let him play third base, fine.

Let Kent go. It's his last shot. Martin will have lots more opportunities.

618 - No they don't, they could abstain!

Well, they could vote for Rowand. Though he's not currently in the top 15.

615

The whole Rays team is good at baseball. And this is with BJ Upton not hitting for power, Crawford under his career averages, and Pena missing a chunk of time. They are going to be scary good for a really long time.

Their front office is spectacular and Andrew Friedman is tremendous.

619 - I hear ya on that one. But your wish is unlikely...

Plus, Russell would only catch a few innings at most, if that, and would still get days off around the game.

621 True, true. Though of course picking number one in the draft a bunch of times doesn't hurt either.

Of the 81 remaining games, the Dodgers only have 18 games against teams who currently have winning records.

Though of course picking number one in the draft a bunch of times doesn't hurt either

Also not painful: trading with Ned Colletti.

624
Arizona has 20 such games remaining.

621

Very true, but a most of their contributors were pickups. Navarro, Howell, Jackson, Garza, Aybar, Pena, Floyd, Percival, Wheeler, Miller, Bartlett, Iwamura, Hinske, Gross were all acquired by Friedman, I believe. Not too shabby.

There are just five teams in the NL with winning records. Since interleague play is over, this number should go up. Or else the Cubs are going to go all 1906 on us.

623
You need to pick first when your competition spends 200 million on salary. I would bet the RedSox and Yankee's spent more on bonus money then the Rays over the last 10 years even with the Rays having a top 5 pick every year. Going over slot tends to take away the advantage of being lousy year after year.

621
That is the key most of their players are actually under performing their projections. Until June, even Longoria was very pedestrian. He has more then made up for his lackluster start with an explosive June.

617 - "among journalists he was admired, even by those who didn't like him."

That's the sense I got from reading him, even though I never met him.

627

"A most" should be "a lot"

I still like the Dodgers Sept schedule over AZ. Those 7 games against STL are going to be tough for them.

True again, they've done well not just in the draft but in many of the acquisitions.

Now I'm hearing that for once they may be looking to acquire veteran players to help their playoff run. The one time I'd actually want Ned to maybe deal with them and he probably won't. Not that I'd fully trust it... but...

Interesting column from Mike Lopresti (USA Today) about the American League's superiority over the National as expressed in interleague play:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/6jd2wk

616 Both of the Molina brothers are having solid years so you should not feel too bad about them being ahead of Martin in the voting. Bengie has numbers very similar to Martin with 12 more RBIs. The guy who has no business being ahead of Martin in the voting is Jason Kendall who has 1 HR and is batting .268. But the Cub fans are fired up for good reason and stuffing the ballot boxes unlike Dodger fans.

617 630 Ken was a difficult person to deal with. Especially on any tech support issues. He left a few help desk people in tears.

Any word on Pierre, even a rumor? If he's going to play tonight he should be on his way to the airport...

I don't think he's playing tonight, but has been declared "day to day," thereby setting up three nightmarish months of lineup anxiety. Dodger denial of reality will continue.

633

They have all of the resources to be a player for a guy like Sabathia. They would have to give up some guys like Hellickson, Davis, etc but if they got Sabathia they would easily have the best 1-3 in baseball. Plus they would get the 2 draft picks once C.C leaves, so they could probably replace what they gave up in the first place.

638 - He didn't even fly to Houston with the team as far as I know.

Diamond Leung just posted, Pierre to DL, Repko activated for tonight's game.
vr, Xei

639 I read an interview with Terry Friedman, he says the Rays being similar to the Marlins in the sense that they will not be able to keep all of their players and at this time cannot take risks such as signing high priced free agents.

He also says the DH works against the Rays because they generally cannot sign a good one to be just a DH.

From Gurnick:

"Outfielder Jason Repko was expected to be activated for Monday night's game against the Astros, although the player he will replace on the Dodgers roster was still to be determined. "

http://tinyurl.com/6asvsl

*

My reaction: If Pierre doesn't go on the DL, it could be the end of Sweeney.

641/643 - Whoops. Never mind.

Diamond Leung is saying JP is on the DL

We'll reset the ticker. NPUT.