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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
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Pierre Hits DL for First Time, Repko Recalled
2008-06-30 13:35
by Jon Weisman

Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise passed along the update.

Comments (159)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-06-30 13:40:29
1.   Xeifrank
Juan Pierre has been placed on the disabled list after an MRI exam revealed a sprained MCL in his left knee. Jason Repko has been recalled for today's game. Juan Pierre will still start in left field and bat cleanup.

>> I added that last sentence, in case you weren't sure. :)
vr, Xei

2008-06-30 13:40:29
2.   silverwidow
What's the recovery time for a sprained MCL?
2008-06-30 13:40:44
3.   bigcpa
It would be wrong to say "rejoice," so I will not say that.
2008-06-30 13:40:55
4.   Bob Timmermann
Be careful what you wish for, for it just may come true.

Or as my mom would say, "Always expect the worst, that way if something good happens, you'll be pleasantly surprised."

2008-06-30 13:42:59
5.   silverwidow
I know RB Brandon Jacobs had the same injury last season and was out over a month.
2008-06-30 13:44:49
6.   Telemachos
This time around, at least Repko will take out Berroa, not Furcal.

Seriously, though, I'm glad to see Repko on the Dodgers again. For some reason, I've always liked him (as a utility outfielder, not necessarily a starter).

I hope Pierre takes the full time needed to completely get back to 100%. (Not being snarky -- his plus is his speed; if he's not 100% then his value is greatly diminished).

2008-06-30 13:45:09
7.   sporky
From some cursory googling, it seems the recovery time can range from 2-6 weeks depending on the severity.

I hope it doesn't affect his speed.

2008-06-30 13:45:21
8.   cargill06
juan pierre will come back, and probably be unsure of his running ability with the sprained knee, so we will get a juan pierre that doesn't steal bases when he comes back... doesn't that sound lovely?
2008-06-30 13:45:29
9.   Telemachos
(oops, there were supposed to be tags for "gallows humor" for the first sentence. Please take it as tongue-in-cheek. :)
2008-06-30 13:45:54
10.   bhsportsguy
2 If no other issues and its mild sprain (grade I or II), 2-4 weeks.
2008-06-30 13:46:53
11.   JoeyP
Ethier-Kemp-PeeWee till the All-Star Break?

Thats not bad.

2008-06-30 13:47:20
12.   Alex41592
Pierre needs to play this safe as his speed is his game. The Dodgers as well need to play this safe, he's going to want to come back immediately even if he's not 100%. Welcome back Jason Repko.
2008-06-30 13:51:22
13.   Jon Weisman
No offense intended to anyone, but I would like to declare officially stale, at least from a DT standpoint, the jokes about how Repko is a danger to other players.

If you feel singled out by this directive, please know that you are not being singled out :)

Anyway, I feel like this guy has gotten enough grief for the Furcal incident.

2008-06-30 13:52:50
14.   Doctor
Tony Jackson seems convinced Repko will be the new leadoff hitter, I honestly can't say for sure if that is an improvement. How about Russ Martin?
2008-06-30 13:53:01
15.   underdog
The Dodgers today purchased 15-day shares in RepCo, the Wall Street Journal reported today.
2008-06-30 13:54:43
16.   Kevin Lewis
I am really happy for Repko. I have always liked watching him play. He reminds me of Russel in terms of attitude for the game...but not the golden god status.
2008-06-30 13:54:50
17.   underdog
14 I guess we'll see, but I'd be surprised if Young isn't starting instead. I don't see the righty Repko going against righty Oswalt in Repko's first appearance of the season.
2008-06-30 13:55:15
18.   Kevin Lewis
I would love to see Russell bat leadoff
2008-06-30 13:56:00
19.   silverwidow
Option A:

LF Young
CF Kemp
RF Ethier

Option B:

LF Ethier
CF Repko
RF Kemp

Which one?

2008-06-30 13:56:29
20.   Disabled List
13 Does this mean I can't nominate "Calamity Jason" as an official nickname for Repko?
2008-06-30 13:58:36
21.   D4P
Or "Jason Voorhees"...?
2008-06-30 13:59:00
22.   Alex41592
14 - For what it's worth Repko had 31 walks and a .369 OBP this season at Vegas. With 6 HR's though he does have 70 strikeouts. 15 stolen bases out of 20 tries. OPS .787.

He is an improvement, but I wouldn't start him vs. Oswalt tonight. Lefties are batting .304 against Oswalt this season. Though Oswalt has given up 11 home runs to righties this season. He's not exactly un-hittable this season, but he's also very capable of pitching a gem at any moment.

2008-06-30 13:59:30
23.   Jon Weisman
17 - We'll know soon, but I'd bet on Young starting tonight. But I think they want to see what Repko can do in the next few days. A platoon seems possible.

The way the desire for speed at the top of the lineup affects who is in the lineup at all is just too tiresome for me to deal with.

2008-06-30 14:00:34
24.   bhsportsguy
Sobering thoughts

Buster Olney's thoughts on who can get C.C. from Cleveland.

4. Dodgers: They have the goods to make a deal, if they agree to swap the likes of Matt Kemp, but the Dodgers might have two problems: No. 1, they rarely pull the trigger on prospect-laden deals, and No. 2, the value of some of their prospects is perceived to be slipping by other teams.

2008-06-30 14:01:22
25.   Eric Enders
I'm not even going to pretend I'm not delighted about this. I feel bad for Pierre, but I have more allegiance to the Dodgers than I do to Pierre, and Pierre's injury helps the team immeasurably.

People have wanted the Dodgers to acquire a big hitter in a trade -- well, basically, they just did. At least for 2 to 4 weeks. Trading for an outfielder with an OPS+ of 130 would have improved the outfield by 30 points of OPS+ (by replacing Ethier's 100). Instead, we improve the outfield by 30-35 points of OPS+ by replacing Pierre (70) with Delwyn Young (who, let's be conservative, will probably be around 100-105).

One of the frustrating things about 2007-08 Dodgers has been the situation where the team would improve remarkably if only a few key players got injured. Nobody likes rooting for an injury, but if you genuinely want the team to win, that's what you're forced to do. I'm happy about this, and I'm not going to feel guilty about it. Dodgers management has driven us to it by their refusal/inability to recognize their best players and put them in the lineup. If it takes a freak accident for that to happen, then it's fine with me.

2008-06-30 14:02:09
26.   okdodge
Joe T. seems to warmed up a little to PeeWee. I'd bet he gets the majority of the p.t. with Pierre on the DL.
2008-06-30 14:02:55
27.   schoffle

I have never understood why he took so much grief for that, he made the catch.


He has been much better than that in June with a OPS better than .900

2008-06-30 14:03:10
28.   LogikReader

I choose to ignore CC trade speculation. I mean, really, he's going to be a free agent in October. How hard is it to wait?

2008-06-30 14:03:58
29.   cargill06
russ leads off?
2008-06-30 14:04:16
30.   Doctor

That's "vegas OBP" Not even the top in the top 3 OFs for the 51's.

2008-06-30 14:04:49
31.   Tom Meagher
19 The best, imo, would be Option A against RHP, Option C against LHP:

LF Young
CF Repko
RF Kemp

As much as we were all intrigued by Ethier's ability to hit southpaws in 2006 and the stories of his dad (I think) making him learn to do so and practice extensively, he's just not a good enough LHB for his hitting southpaws to ever be valuable. I'd rather give Pee Wee the full playing time.

2008-06-30 14:05:12
32.   bhsportsguy
Interesting to note that some believe that the Indians may want to make a trade now because not only will they save half his salary, they will not have to expend additional money to the compensation picks that they would get if they kept C.C. and offered him arbitration.
2008-06-30 14:05:36
33.   D4P
No. 1, they rarely pull the trigger on prospect-laden deals, and No. 2, the value of some of their prospects is perceived to be slipping by other teams.

Except that they routinely pull the trigger on prospects-perceived-to-be-slipping-by-other-teams-laden deals.

2008-06-30 14:06:05
34.   delias man
Hooray, another .235 career hitter is on the team. We should be more worried about that then him wrecking other players bodies.
2008-06-30 14:06:46
35.   Disabled List
CC is going to be a Yankee next year. Bet the house on it.
2008-06-30 14:07:36
36.   cargill06
what's juan pierre's eqa this year compared delwyn youngs?
2008-06-30 14:07:59
37.   sporky
Hey, a homegrown outfield!
2008-06-30 14:08:32
38.   Eric Enders
32 That's just silly. The Indians have a good front office, and I refuse to believe they'd be that dumb. I give that rumor little credence.
2008-06-30 14:09:04
39.   Alex41592
27 - Yes, thank you. To add in June Repko has 9 walks and 21 strikeouts. An OBP of .442 and an OPS of .971.

Also, this season against lefties he has an OPS of .934 in 70 AB's with 9 walks (.420 OBP). A straight up platoon Young vs. righties and Repko vs. lefties would be a very good idea.

2008-06-30 14:09:31
40.   Jon Weisman
24 - As if the idea that the Dodgers would trade for pitching wasn't silly enough before, you'd think that the national coverage of the 1-0 games this weekend would alert even the most casual observer to how preposterous the idea is.
2008-06-30 14:10:00
41.   underdog
24 Gack, I wish Olney would get off that train of that finally. He never even mentions that the other big "problem" for the Dodgers to pursue Sabathia is that they don't need pitching. Granted, CC can probably hit better than their #8 hitter right now, but, he otherwise doesn't solve any of their problems. Oh, and also those "prospects" he keeps referring to aren't prospects anymore. Other than that, thank you Buster Bluth.
2008-06-30 14:10:15
42.   Tom Meagher
32 I call BS. Who is your source?
2008-06-30 14:10:23
43.   underdog
Train of thought, I meant in 41.

Or, what Jon said.

2008-06-30 14:11:44
44.   Eric Enders
36 .250-.271
2008-06-30 14:12:43
45.   cargill06
44 the .250 belonging to pierre i'm assuming.
2008-06-30 14:13:08
46.   Tom Meagher
39 Why would you platoon the switch-hitter (Young) and not the lefty (Ethier)? Young is probably slightly better against LHP.
2008-06-30 14:13:09
47.   Eric Enders
45 Of course.
2008-06-30 14:16:19
48.   Rob M
As a daily BP reader, I'm finding it notable how much they under-cover the Dodgers, but this weekend takes the cake. There's been no mention of the no-hitter-that-wasn't, the shutouts, and Carrol didn't even mention Pierre in UTK.
2008-06-30 14:18:20
49.   Alex41592
46 - I don't want Ethier's glove out of the game. And I believe this Ethier slump is a fluke. Plus, he spent his whole life learning how to hit left handed pitching with his dad. He can hit lefties. Plus Young gives you a pinch hitter and options as to when you can use him (against LHP or RHP). As opposed to having a very left handed bench when you load up righties in the lineup so you're forced to use a lefty (Sweeney or Ethier, etc) in a pinch hitting opportunity against a lefty. It's happened a lot when Young plays for Ethier this season.
2008-06-30 14:18:46
50.   Tom Meagher
46 That is, Young is likely a slightly better hitter as an RHB. The difference between the two against LHP is probably about a one run advantage for Young over the course of 100 PA.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-06-30 14:21:31
51.   Neal Pollack
O happy day!

I enjoy watching Repko play and am glad to see him back...our RPG is about to go up tremendously, and the press will attribute it to the "veteran leadership" that Nomar will provide upon his return.

2008-06-30 14:22:06
52.   Eric Enders
48 I'm a daily reader too and I disagree that they under-cover the Dodgers.

Will Carroll's column revolves around analyzing the reported injuries, and they didn't even release the diagnosis on Pierre until 30 minutes ago. I've got problems with Carroll's analysis sometimes, but I'm not going to hold his inability to mind-read against him.

2008-06-30 14:22:50
53.   bhsportsguy
42 First, I resent being accused of making stuff up, I just paraphrased what Buster Olney wrote is in Insider column on

Here is the full excerpt. It is Olney's opinion.

The Indians are not looking to make a Sabathia deal to save money -- after all, they offered the pitcher tens of millions of dollars -- but the faster they move, the more money they save. If they trade him within the next week, their savings would be about $8 million, another executive guess-timated; that would be the combined dollar figure of money not paid in salary to Sabathia, and money not paid out to sign the compensation draft picks received when Sabathia walks away as a free agent.

2008-06-30 14:25:39
54.   Eric Enders
53 Nobody accused you of anything. Go back and read his post. He was calling the idea bogus, not questioning that you genuinely read it somewhere.
2008-06-30 14:26:54
55.   natepurcell

But Carroll does take the time to tell the world how much of an injury risk Chad Billingsley is.

2008-06-30 14:27:35
56.   silverwidow
Repko, CF
Ethier, RF
Martin, C
Kent, 2B
Loney, 1B
Young, LF
DeWitt, 3B
Maza, SS
Stults, P
2008-06-30 14:28:06
57.   silverwidow
That is from Diamond.

I am stunned that Kemp isn't playing, but Repko is.

2008-06-30 14:28:27
58.   underdog
Hah hah. So much for my theories!

Btw, I'm glad to see Maza starting for Berroa. It's kind of grasping at tiny straws, but it seems like he's a slightly better bet both in the field and at the plate.

2008-06-30 14:30:23
59.   vegasblueman
This has to set the record (at least for the time being) for most dollars ever on a disabled list?
2008-06-30 14:30:37
60.   underdog
I re-read 42 and it does sound a bit accusatory even if surely not intentionally so.

Hey, Kemp is batting .000 vs. Oswalt!

er, in one at bat.

2008-06-30 14:31:36
61.   delias man
Disappointing, that short porch is calling for Laroche.
2008-06-30 14:31:49
62.   underdog
Sigh. And Andruw Jones is 7 for 13 lifetime vs. Oswalt.
2008-06-30 14:32:41
63.   underdog
61 I'll bet ya Andy starts tomorrow.
2008-06-30 14:32:46
64.   Disabled List
Jeff Kent is older than the rest of tonight's lineup combined.
2008-06-30 14:33:06
65.   okdodge
56 Why no Kemp!! This year has been exhausting. I hope the glass half full predictions from the previous thread start to come to fruition soon.
2008-06-30 14:33:38
66.   bigcpa
Chad Fonville would start over Kemp. At this point I'm not sure Hanley or Sizemore could bat leadoff for a Torre team.
2008-06-30 14:33:44
67.   The Trolley Dodger

Repko 27
Ethier 26
Martin 25
Kent 40
Loney 24
Young 26
DeWitt 22
Maza 28
Stults 28

Average age: 27.33
Average age, sans Kent: 25.75

2008-06-30 14:34:09
68.   LogikReader

Kemp not playing? Does this have to do with the "he struggles against tough righties" theorem?

2008-06-30 14:34:35
69.   Alex41592
What is it with Torre and his obsessive need to have a 'lead off' guy in the lineup? Though Repko can smoke one over the short porch. Plus Kemp hasn't had a game off in over two weeks.
2008-06-30 14:34:36
70.   sporky
So is today's black hole a party of one?
2008-06-30 14:35:04
71.   Doctor
The 2008 Dodgers will not start their best 3 OF in the same game. Its some sort of rule.
2008-06-30 14:35:06
72.   okdodge
67 Kent has had his moustache for more years than most of the others in the lineup have been alive.
2008-06-30 14:36:56
73.   Alex41592
I feel much better about this lineup than anything I've seen since April 30th.
2008-06-30 14:37:23
74.   RELX
As much as I join in the rejoicing, I don't think JP's absence is going to affect things much one way or the other. While he is certainly a drag on the line-up, and I expect Young, if he gets most of Pierre's starts, to be marginally better, no one on the team, except for Martin, is having a good offensive season, and Pierre not being in the line-up is not going to change that.
2008-06-30 14:37:26
75.   underdog
Isn't it possible that Kemp just needed a day off? At any rate, he'll be in the line-up tomorrow.
2008-06-30 14:37:52
76.   LoneStar7
67 I thought peewee "peanuts" was younger, and james a couple years older...interesting
2008-06-30 14:38:22
77.   Eric Enders
I'm sure that if one tried exceptionally hard, one could put together a lineup using the current roster that is worse than tonight's. But it would be difficult.

I was operating under the assumption that Repko would be the 25th man. Upthread, while you guys were discussing how much playing time he was going to get, I was dismissing the idea out of hand. I temporarily forgot we were dealing with a manager whose incompetence knows no bounds. Anything he can screw up, he will.

Seriously. Get somebody, anybody, who can tell the difference between a good baseball player and a bad one. It really ain't that difficult. Backward as baseball men are, almost every other team manages to get its good players in the lineup, and its bad ones on the bench. It's not too much to ask.

2008-06-30 14:39:21
78.   RELX
69 . When Torre managed the Yankees, Jeter batted leadoff often, and he was certainly not the prototypical leadoff hitter.
2008-06-30 14:39:47
79.   Doctor
Were looking at well below 0.300 career OBP for that group.
This is a mess.
2008-06-30 14:40:18
80.   regfairfield
Who would have thought losing Pierre actually would have have been a proble,?
2008-06-30 14:41:16
81.   RELX
Based on the last few comments, I guess we now have to hope for a Repko injury?
2008-06-30 14:41:46
82.   Tom Meagher
49 All valid points, but they don't add up to a very compelling argument for me. My evaluation of Ethier has nothing to do with a slump and hitting against your dad is not the same as facing a major league LHP with a developed repertoire. If it is believed that Ethier's defense is more than five runs per season better than Young's, then I am fine with choosing to start Ethier. That having been said, there is plenty of value in giving Young those PA to aid his development.

Your PH objection is silly, I feel. I will note that the bulk of your objection basically boils down to it being too bad that the Dodgers have Mark Sweeney on their roster instead of a semi-competent RHB. If you load your lineup with RHB to face a southpaw SP (I'm assuming that in your scenario there are six RHB, Loney, and Ethier/Young in the lineup with DeWitt, Maza/Berroa, Sweeney, and Ardoin on the bench), you will be lucky if there is ever a LHP RP in the game. Managers are going to use a true LOOGY on Loney, if at all, not against the PH for your pitcher. Against the starter, the only time you would think about pinch-hitting would be for your pitcher, and half the time the LHP SP will be out of the game before you choose to do that. There's no reason to pinch hit for starters who have the platoon advantage. So the question is whether you would want to use Young to PH for the pitcher against the LHP SP in the 6th or whether you're ok with using one of the RHB defense guys (Maza/Ardoin/Berroa). With the positional flexibility of LaRoche and DeWitt still on the bench, it seems fine to use one of them in such a situation and sit on Ethier to use him against a reliever. Starting Young over Ethier really does not create any bench problems other than a small lack of flexibility over pinch-hitting for your SP. And if the Dodgers were to replace Sweeney with an RHB, there would be no grounds for this objection.

Let me just say this about Ethier and his dad. For all the practice, there is no way that Ethier has genuinely developed a reverse platoon split. Once you know that, you know Ethier has to be a very good player to start against LHP, because a) he will be worse against them, even if only by a little (though count me down as believing it will be more by a "lot") and b) there is an opportunity cost involved, as freely available RHB corner outfielders will hit a LHP better than a slightly above average LHB (Ethier). Colletti, of course, has systematically prevented the Dodgers from taking advantage of b).

2008-06-30 14:41:47
83.   sporky
How often do guys get called up from AAA to lead off?
2008-06-30 14:41:51
84.   Louis in SF
Jon wins the pool for Repko leading off
2008-06-30 14:42:04
85.   Luis Chavez
Completely agree.
2008-06-30 14:42:49
86.   Alex41592
One thing that is we have a lineup tonight where anybody 1 though 9 can go deep. Even Luis Maza.
2008-06-30 14:43:38
87.   PHilldodger
It will be interesting to see if Repko becomes a fixture in the lineup until Furcal is back. Torre obviously likes a "leadoff hitter" (i.e. a fast guy) batting first, regardless if that player is one of his best 8 position players.
Also, anyone want to place bets on who goes when Nomar returns. My money is on LaRoche going back to Vegas, with Sweeney staying and Dewitt not going back to the minors where he needs to be.
2008-06-30 14:44:09
88.   Doctor
Turns out Pierre wasn't the problem, Torre is the problem.
2008-06-30 14:45:01
89.   GMac In The 909
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."
- Bullet Tooth Tony
2008-06-30 14:45:11
90.   Disabled List
Repko's getting four hits tonight. The karmic wave coming off this thread practically guarantees it.
2008-06-30 14:45:32
91.   Eric Enders
This just occurred to me, and I realize it's completely nuts, but what if Torre is trying to get Colletti fired, possibly so that Joe can reunite with Cashman next year? That would explain all the playing-time decisions which no rational, thinking human being could come up with.

Yeah, it's nonsense, I know. It's just that Torre's lineups give the overwhelming impression that he's actually trying to lose.

2008-06-30 14:45:34
92.   D4P
Torre obviously likes a "leadoff hitter" (i.e. a fast guy) batting first, regardless if that player is one of his best 8 position players

And regardless of whether the player can get on base or not. I hope I live long enough to see Baseball People realize that speed is more important in front of bad hitters than in front of good, and that getting on base in front of good hitters is more important than being able to run fast.

2008-06-30 14:45:54
93.   regfairfield
82 I'd look at Young's minor league splits for the last two years. He's OPSed about 200 points less against lefties than righties.
2008-06-30 14:46:46
94.   sporky
88 Was Pierre ever the problem?
2008-06-30 14:46:47
95.   D4P
Torre : Ned :: Tracy : Depo ...?
2008-06-30 14:48:35
96.   D4P
Turns out Pierre wasn't the problem, Torre is the problem

We don't have to pick and choose here...

2008-06-30 14:50:59
97.   GMac In The 909
96 Exactly. Everyone knows the problems are the guys who are 26 and under on the team. Duh.
2008-06-30 14:51:17
98.   regfairfield
94 He was a problem at the very least.
2008-06-30 14:51:57
99.   Eric Enders
If there is one thing for which I am thankful today, it's that Nook Logan didn't get sent to Las Vegas out of spring training.
2008-06-30 14:55:35
100.   LogikReader
Ok, I'm sorry, but this time I'm going to have to dissent with the crowd.

Number one, what is the problem with Repko batting leadoff? His OBP numbers aren't horrible in 2008. He should be ok in CF defensively.

I mean, bh, back me up here: aren't we down to just one player who has black hole potential in tonight's lineup? And with Maza, at least you have a capable glove in the infield. Is DeWitt not allowed to have a slump as some of the other guys have?

It's not like Kemp is going to sit out every game this week. He hasn't had a day off in a while. I think I like our chances much more than with Pierre any place in the lineup.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-06-30 14:55:57
101.   PHilldodger
92 Yes, thanks for clarifying.
2008-06-30 14:57:12
102.   LogikReader

I should say, Repko's minor league OBP numbers aren't horrible in 2008

2008-06-30 14:57:47
103.   sporky
The problem is the guy who wanted to sign him and the other guy who insists on leading off with him everyday, not the player who accepted the obscene offer and plays when he's told to.

I hate that I have to qualify this, but this isn't to say I'm endorsing Pierre as one of our top three (or four. or five) outfielders.

2008-06-30 14:57:57
104.   dzzrtRatt
77 It can't be the worst lineup. Where's Berroa? Where's Ardoin? And what about Sweeney at first base?

Nope. Sadly this is one of the best they could offer, assuming Kemp does need a day off. I'd rather see LaRoche over DeWitt, but that's just a bias.

2008-06-30 14:57:58
105.   cargill06
100 you have to consider dewitt a black hole.
2008-06-30 14:58:44
106.   Tom Meagher
52 /53 /60

I'm sorry bh, I didn't mean to imply you had made it up, I meant I called BS on the speculation and wanted to know where you got it from. My apologies for the confusion.

That having been said, I don't think Olney actually says what you had suggested in 32 in that excerpt, "that the Indians may want to make a trade now because ... they will not have to expend additional money to the compensation picks." Olney is just stating there the amount they would figure to save (which is kind of silly, since one of the picks could be the 16th or the 60th), but he actually states plainly that saving money is not their rationale for considering trading him. I don't know if others have suggested what you suggested in 32 .

Now, I do agree that, all else being equal, it is preferable to acquire players whose signing bonuses have already been paid, so if you had two identical twins with exactly similar talent and one you had to draft and give a signing bonus and the other you could acquire in trade, you'd much rather make the trade than get the pick even if you were guaranteed to get the player you wanted simply because you don't have to foot the signing bonus. That is a definite advantage of not waiting for the picks, so Olney is not wrong to mention it, though he is clearly being misleading since draft picks are generally a good return on the monetary investment of the signing bonus.

In any event, moving Sabathia now instead of on July 31 makes absolutely zero difference in whether the Indians have to pay out some signing bonuses to compensation picks.

2008-06-30 14:59:23
107.   Sushirabbit
95 and the corollary :: phillips:pierre
2008-06-30 14:59:42
108.   bhsportsguy
Just reposting this since the first prediction (it was easy) came true. From the last thread.

514. bhsportsguy
Probable Roster Moves in the next few days.

1. If Pierre goes on the DL, Repko brought up from Vegas.
2. Prior to Wednesday's game, Troncoso optioned, Kuroda activated from 15-day DL.
3. If Penny passes his simulated game, prior to Saturday, Falkenborg DFA (or if they decide this 6-man rotation is not going to be used, Stults optioned, Penny activated from 15-day DL.
4. If Furcal passes through his rehab stint, Furcal activated from 15-day DL, Berroa optioned to Vegas.
5. If Nomar deems himself fit to play, than several things could happen. First, someone is going to have be removed from the 40-man roster. Off the active roster, the choices could be Sweeney or Maza. My hunch is that it will be Maza. While the Dodgers will still search for a legitimate utility player who can play 2B/SS, if Furcal and Nomar are both activitated, they will probably keep LaRoche as the back up at 2B and Nomar will be the back up SS. The reason I think Sweeney survives is that if Pierre is hurt, Young will play in the OF and they won't have another left-hand bat on the bench.

So a week from today, the 25-man roster could look like this:

Pitchers (12): Penny, Lowe, Kuroda, Billingsley, Kershaw, Stults, Wade, Beimel, Kuo, Park, Broxton and Saito.
Catchers (2): Martin and Ardoin
Infield (7): Loney, Kent, Furcal, Garciaparra, DeWitt, LaRoche and Sweeney
Outfield (4): Ethier, Kemp, Young and Repko.

2008-06-30 15:00:39
109.   Terry A
Kemp's getting a day off to think about the thoughtless things he said to offend a couple of players on Joe Torre's favorite baseball team.

He might have to write some sentences, too.

2008-06-30 15:00:43
110.   regfairfield
103 If you go by that, it's never a player's fault that he stinks.

100 DeWitt has been a terrible player for about 80% of his career now. He's a hole.

2008-06-30 15:01:10
111.   D4P
The problem is the guy who wanted to sign him and the other guy who insists on leading off with him everyday, not the player who accepted the obscene offer and plays when he's told to

Pierre is a problem because he sucks.

Management is a problem (in part) because they acquired/put Pierre in the lineup.

The second part is thus only a problem because the first part is a problem.

2008-06-30 15:01:13
112.   PHilldodger
100 There' a slump, and then there's posting a OPS of .451 in 81 plate appearances for a player (Dewitt) who everyone thought wasn't ready for the ML level at the beginning of the year. Dewitt pretty qualifies as a black hole at this point.
I don't have a problem per se with Repko playing CF today. The bigger question is if Repko is deemed the de facto leadoff hitter until Furcal returns.
2008-06-30 15:01:24
113.   underdog
Seriously, Kemp needed a day off. That explains it. I think LaRoche should be starting every day at this point, but other than that I don't see why this line-up is worth jumping off a cliff about. And like I said earlier, I'm happy to see Berroa sit.
2008-06-30 15:03:13
114.   bhsportsguy
106 Thanks, let me say this, I don't agree with the analysis but I just wonder what kind of players would the Indians expect to get.
2008-06-30 15:04:05
115.   Gen3Blue
I hope Kemp is not playing because he has gone so long without a day off. But I can't help but find humor in the chance that Torre needs someone who looks like a lead-off hitter. Kemp doesn't look like a lead-off hitter. And he has two much power for a LO hitter. That he is fast enough(probably faster than Repko) doesn't matter, and it can't be his OBP--or JP would never be considered for leading off.
It must be his looks are wrong.
2008-06-30 15:04:38
116.   sporky
110 My point is that Pierre wouldn't be a problem if he weren't a) a Dodger or b) playing everyday.

He stunk before, and he still stinks now. It should've been apparent to the people in charge of making FA/roster decisions.

This is getting too circuitous. I apologize for beating the decomposing horse.

2008-06-30 15:04:42
117.   bhsportsguy
110 How DeWitt stands in terms of management views him will be known if and when Nomar is ready to be activated later this week.
2008-06-30 15:04:57
118.   cargill06
109 i missed that, what did he say?
2008-06-30 15:06:24
119.   silverwidow
108 In case you missed it, Berroa is out of options.
2008-06-30 15:08:30
120.   regfairfield
Not that it really matters though. No one would claim him.
2008-06-30 15:09:51
121.   RELX
One thing I have wondered for awhile is how committed Torre is to managing the Dodgers? I am not implying that he is going to quit or anything like that, but sometimes I wonder if he is still in shock from losing his Yankee job, and really doesn't want to be here. What really caught my attention were all the comments he made in spring training and early in the season about not knowing the team. When he was with the Yankees, he would spend the off-season in Hawaii, and not come back until ST. Of course, back then he had the same core group for years, so maybe it was ok for him to just show up at ST, as the Yankees didn't usually integrate bunches of young players into the line-up from year to year. With a new team, however, and a young one to boot, you'd think he would have done a little more homework before ST, which I did not get the feeling he did. I am not saying that this would have improved his decision-making, but it often feels like he has a lax attitude to managing this team, which seems to be rubbing off on the players. There is a fine line between calm, but intense, and calm and disinterested.
2008-06-30 15:10:18
122.   silverwidow
120 Agreed, he's terrible. But a DFA would have to be done in his case.
2008-06-30 15:16:08
123.   Xeifrank
Repko's MLE (converting from Las Vegas to Dodger Stadium, based on 2008 stats) is not all that impressive (.220/.277/.323). Pre-season projections had him anywhere from a .685 to .727 OPS.

vr, Xei

2008-06-30 15:17:29
124.   El Lay Dave
Count me in the doubter camp on Repko as a batter. His career numbers in Las Vegas are "meh" and not-so-great this year either, especially considering he's doing it as a 27-year old. He is "hot", so if that carried over, that could help in the short run. I also wasn't impressed with him while he was in the majors - not enough discipline, too many whiffs; and that hasn't changed overall this year in AAA.

I'm worried about LHP Eric "13 OF flies in my shutout" Stults pitching in the Houston bandbox with that short LF porch.

I fail to see why a guy with a .404 OBP and some speed can't lead off.

Kemp has been struggling and has looked pretty bad at the plate at times. I can't work up a lather about sitting him today against Oswalt. If that day off stuff works, today is a reasonable choice.

2008-06-30 15:17:53
125.   Jon Weisman
121 - At the ballgame yesterday, I wondered aloud if three years managing the Dodgers to non-playoff finishes could derail Torre's seemingly locked path to the Hall of Fame.

That's just really idle speculation on my end, but I don't know how committed he is.

2008-06-30 15:20:41
126.   sporky
I have a blood blister in my ear. I guess that means it's time to upgrade my earphones.

Does anyone have a pair they like?

2008-06-30 15:21:23
127.   Neal Pollack
I think we can mostly agree that this team has been poorly run this year, but running Repko out at leadoff in Houston isn't in the top 20 mistakes. Can anyone honestly say that Repko-Young-Ethier is worse that Pierre-Young-Kemp, which is what we were going to have if Pierre didn't get hurt? Not having Juan in the lineup is a plus no matter how it gets sliced.

LaRoche is obviously being punished for that improvised bunt. Just another example of a selfish young player who doesn't understand What It Takes To Win™.

2008-06-30 15:22:20
128.   bigcpa
We face 3 LHP's in the next 5 games this week. The next Torre litmus test will be if Repko starts over Ethier.
2008-06-30 15:25:53
129.   Eric Enders
Based on a lot of the little things he says and does, I've thought for a while that Torre isn't all that committed to managing the Dodgers. It's my opinion that he took the job mostly to show Steinbrenner, "See, other people want me," and not because he's actually interested in managing the Dodgers. Stuff like not remembering who Eric Stults was even though he pitched in spring training -- those things smack of a manager who's going through the motions.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Torre retires before his contract is up.

2008-06-30 15:26:43
130.   El Lay Dave
125 Torre just spent the last 12 years in one of the most visible, press-intensive jobs in major league baseball. While the Dodgers are a long, storied, historic franchise, I imagine about 1/10 the press person-hours are expended in the Dodger locker room compared to the Yankees. Maybe some competition for his job, in the form of omnipresent press criticism, would be good for his performance and commitment. :)
2008-06-30 15:27:58
131.   The Mootz
125 Torre's a lock for the hall no matter what.

However, there are times when I miss Grady Little.

2008-06-30 15:28:07
132.   El Lay Dave
129 I actually wouldn't be surprised if Torre retires before his contract is up.

Might have been the plan until Donnie Baseball's personal situation reached critical levels.

2008-06-30 15:28:22
133.   D4P
It's my opinion that he took the job mostly to show Steinbrenner, "See, other people want me,"

And because it pays $4 million a year.

2008-06-30 15:30:07
134.   Jon Weisman
127 - I don't think Repko is any kind of improvement over Pierre. Certainly, it made sense not to give Pierre $45 million with someone like Repko available to fill in. But that doesn't mean that Repko's career EQA isn't well below Pierre's.

So basically, your question comes down to whether you'd prefer Ethier to Kemp.

2008-06-30 15:31:32
135.   Neal Pollack
I guess I prefer Kemp, though I wish I didn't have to make the choice.

Repko has a better arm than Pierre, and more power.

2008-06-30 15:31:49
136.   El Lay Dave
127 LaWitt/DeRoche has become a platoon. As as Young/Ethier.

I'm still finding it hard to believe that Repko has gone from "possibly 5th OF if Young weren't out of options" to "recalled to lead off immediately against Oswalt".

2008-06-30 15:32:24
137.   RELX
125. I would think he is a lock for the hall based on the fact that he had historic success with the Yankees, plus he is extremely well-liked by the media. However, if the Dodgers are mediocre during his tenure, it will add fuel to the argument that he really was "clueless Joe" as the NY Daily News headline said upon his hiring in 1995, and it was the great Yankee teams that made Torre seem like a great manager, and not the other way around.
2008-06-30 15:33:03
138.   Eric Enders
124 I agree that Stults is fairly likely to get ripped tonight. I wish it weren't so, but the stars appear aligned against him, a mediocre lefty fly-ball pitcher facing a team with a lot of RH power in Minute Maid.

Back when Casey Stengel and Earl Weaver were managing, they'd adjust their rotations to avoid stuff like this.

2008-06-30 15:33:32
139.   D4P
Torre is the "Pops McIntyre" of the big leagues.
2008-06-30 15:33:59
140.   El Lay Dave
136 "As *h*as Young/Ethier, at least until Pierre hit the DL." -- Typo, then didn't complete the thought.
2008-06-30 15:35:10
141.   dzzrtRatt
I wondered whether Torre was wishing he'd stayed on the sidelines so he'd have been available when the Mets fired Randolph.

You can't stick it to the Steinbrenners if SportsCenter and the NY Daily News don't cover your team.

2008-06-30 15:36:09
142.   Dodgers49
Just catching up after reading 700+ comments.

From a previous thread:

36. I read somewhere that Torre said that Jones would not automatically be a starter when he comes back.

Unless my memory is playing tricks on me it was Ned Colletti who made that statement. Apparently he doesn't talk to Joe Torre. :-)

2008-06-30 15:36:10
143.   Tom Meagher
93 You will have to enlighten me for his 2007 LV splits, so I'll look at 2005-6 and his MLB splits. (And let me clarify: I say he figures to hit slightly better against LHP because this is the norm toward which we heavily regress for natural righties who are switch hitters, not because I glanced at his major league stats and pulled a Tom Smykowski.)

vs. LHP: 358 PA, .281/.327/.405, .319 wOBA
vs. RHP: 900 PA, .297/.348/.506, .363 wOBA

The sample size, I will say off the bat, is too small for that split to mean anything to us. The difference is entirely caused by having hit 35 HR against RHP and 6 against LHP; if you take out all of the PA where he homered, you have a duel between .268/.315/.340 and .266/.321/.352. Not that that means his split is "fake" or that we should arbitrarily remove HR from the equation. I'm just not willing to basically argue that Delwyn Young hits RHP much better because he straight loses his HR power against LHP. Simply put, this sample just means nothing to me.

Let me ask: if we were to bet on which population of pitchers Young will have more success against in his major league career from here on out, what odds are you giving me if I say he'll hit LHP better?

2008-06-30 15:37:57
144.   Jacob L
Maybe we shouldn't hire managers who had success in New York. Davy didn't seem all that interested, either.
2008-06-30 15:39:43
145.   ToyCannon
I watched SNL and can't get the Mighty Mouse song out of my mind. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but as a tyke, Mighty Mouse was my main man.

This isn't relevant to anything but it beats banging my head against my keyboard which is what I felt like doing when I saw the lineup.

2008-06-30 15:40:18
146.   underdog
141 I got the sense that Torre was thrilled to be out of NY entirely. I don't see how the Mets' zoo would've interested him.
2008-06-30 15:40:53
147.   RELX
144 . Come to think of it, my feelings about Torre remind me very much of the way I felt about Johnson.

Of course, Tracy was very excited about the job, so maybe commitment isn't all it's cracked up to be!

2008-06-30 15:50:30
148.   El Lay Dave
I know a lot of experienced eyes like Delwyn Young as a hitter, but what should I make of the fact that in AAA, ages 23-35, he has 1280 PAs, 98 BB, 244 K, 39 HR (but 114 2Bs/3Bs). Is that too much whiffing and not enough walking with not enough power?

And happy birthday to Delwyn who turns 26 today.

2008-06-30 15:51:36
149.   GMac In The 909
147 I used to refer to Johnson as a cardboard cutout because he'd just sit there with the same glazed over look on his face.

Torre seems to be cut from the same cardboard.

2008-06-30 15:52:13
150.   Gen3Blue
143 Almost 0.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-06-30 15:54:12
151.   Gen3Blue
148 Should that be 23-25?
2008-06-30 15:54:37
152.   tjdub
Remember in "A League of Their Own" when Dottie (Geena Davis) just makes out the lineup because the manager is drunk/missing and because "It can't be that hard"? I say we get Torre wasted and let the players take care of it. As long as Martin gets the task and not Jeff Kent then all will be well.
2008-06-30 15:55:04
153.   ToyCannon
I think of Skip Schumaker in that if he's given the at bats he will produce in ways that will make his skeptics wonder what they didn't see.
2008-06-30 15:55:19
154.   El Lay Dave
145 I get the feeling that George Carlin would be for no-hitters counting, even if the pitcher didn't get 27 outs. (I watched SNL too while DVRing it, but fell asleep during one of the commercial breaks [getting old!]. Of the parts I saw again, I didn't realize how much I remembered seeing Janis Ian sing "At Seventeen", but it flooded back when she came on.)
2008-06-30 15:55:50
155.   Indiana Jon
Is Torre the worst, most misinformed, most over payed manager in baseball?
2008-06-30 15:55:54
156.   El Lay Dave
151 Yes.
2008-06-30 15:56:04
157.   Indiana Jon


2008-06-30 15:56:18
158.   Jon Weisman
2008-06-30 15:56:19
159.   Eric Enders
149 I could care less if he's made of cardboard, particle board, or thick cardstock, as long as he puts the right players on the field. Which he doesn't.

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