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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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Spring Training 2009 Update
2008-07-08 23:41
by Jon Weisman

Next Tuesday is the deadline for the Dodgers to formally notify county officials representing Vero Beach about their intentions to move to Glendale, Arizona for Spring Training 2009, Laurel Scheffel of reminds us.

"As of right now, it does look good (for the facility to open on time in 2009)," Dodgers vice president of spring training and minor league facilities Craig Callan said. "... The decision is not up to me, but we will definitely notify Indian River County by July 15."

The Dodgers will face a $575,000 fine for economic damages if they do not return to Vero Beach in 2009 without notification by Tuesday. ...

Although the (Arizona) facility's Nov. 19 groundbreaking was later than originally anticipated, the construction crews are making up lost time by working double shifts each day, he said.

Almost all the stadium walls are up and the two-acre pond that divides the ballpark is almost completely filled, which will provide irrigation for the fields currently being prepped for sodding.

"Everything is moving at lightning speed," Callan said. "There has been a lot of transformation out there in the last couple months."

Julie Frisoni, communications director for the city of Glendale, said the construction company, M.A. Mortenson, is sending a letter to the city guaranteeing the facility will be done in time for 2009 spring training.

However, if the Tuesday deadline passes without a change to the timeline and the ballpark is not finished by the start of spring training, Glendale will be required to pay the teams a fine of $250,000 per game, minus what the teams recoup playing elsewhere. ...

Meanwhile, Amy Sherman of the Miami Herald tracks the Baltimore Orioles' progress toward a move to Vero Beach for Spring Training 2009 or 2010.

* * *

Tom Hoffarth of the Daily News understandably found it odd that in Tuesday's 12 noon FSN Prime Ticket replay of Monday's near-perfect game by Hiroki Kuroda, the lone hit (by Mark Texeira of Atlanta) was edited out - especially considering that the replay broadcast was only three minutes shorter than the game itself.

Comments (262)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-07-08 23:53:53
1.   Alex41592
Dodgers will change hitting coach again

Mike Easler will be replaced by Don Mattingly after the All-Star break.

With the Dodgers' offense ranking among the worst in the league, the club is expected to change hitting coaches at the All-Star break by replacing Mike Easler with Don Mattingly, according to sources close to the situation who requested anonymity because the move hasn't been finalized. Mattingly is due to take over when the Dodgers start the second half of the season in Arizona on July 18.

Manager Joe Torre declined to comment.

If Easler is dismissed, the Dodgers would have let go a hitting coach in midseason for the second consecutive year. Bill Mueller replaced Eddie Murray last June.

Easler, who is expected to be reassigned within the organization, is the Dodgers' eighth hitting coach in the last 10 seasons. The Dodgers appointed him last January, after Mattingly resigned from the coaching staff to tend to family matters amid his divorce proceedings.

Mattingly, a career .307 hitter with the New York Yankees, was on Torre's staff in New York and was signed to be his Dodgers hitting coach in November. After his resignation, he stayed on as a special assignment coach and has joined the team when it has traveled to the Midwest, near his Indiana home.

Mattingly has told the Dodgers that he is ready to coach for the rest of the season. Mattingly's agent, Ray Schulte, did not return a phone message Tuesday.

The Dodgers lead the National League in earned-run average but rank among the bottom five in runs, hits, home runs, walks, on-base percentage and slugging percentage.

2008-07-09 00:00:52
2.   Jon Weisman
1 - Next time, instead of printing the whole bit, just do a link and maybe an excerpt. And certainly credit the source. Otherwise, their story is being effectively stolen.,0,6047902.story

2008-07-09 00:01:51
3.   Alex41592
2 - Sorry, I normally do and forgot.
2008-07-09 00:02:33
4.   Jon Weisman
3 - No worries - just a good reminder for everyone.
2008-07-09 00:05:08
5.   bhsportsguy
2 At first, I thought it was made up but the it had too much detail, so I looked for it and found it on the Times site, poor Mike Easler, he sounded so cheerful on the post-game show.

Also, that same link has some info on the CC trade, Shapiro is quoted that the Dodgers had sincere interest but it appears once it got beyond the initial 2 for 1 deal, one of the names is reportedly Andy LaRoche, it didn't meet with what the club wanted to do.

2008-07-09 00:07:56
6.   bhsportsguy
BTW, Joe from Alhambra knocked down a Dodgertalk caller's proposed trade for Matt Holliday and Garrett Atkins by using home/road splits and the stat that Holliday only has 3 home runs in Dodger Stadium in over 120 plate appearances.
2008-07-09 00:12:37
7.   Linkmeister
Completely O/T security alert: If you're a Windows XP user who got updates today and hasn't installed them yet, read my experience first.

2008-07-09 00:24:53
8.   berkowit28
Yes, because I had to listen to most of last night's game on the radio, I watched the truncated version taped at 12 today. I was surprised that none of the earlier innings were omitted, only to be amazed when the whole of the 8th inning (not just Teixara's run) was removed. Given that they usually remove about 3 of the later innings, I suppose they thought they were doing us a favor waiting until the 8th. But they should have just removed one if the less consequential innings (maybe the 2nd or so) rather than the 8th which changed the game. Or, just for once, maybe they could have cut out 4 minutes of ads and shown the whole game.
2008-07-09 00:30:02
9.   Bob Timmermann
Any inning when Vin reads a sponsor's ad in it, like the AFLAC trivia question is supposed to stay in. Or the text message poll.

That gets priority because those people paid extra money to get mentioned while the game is going on.

2008-07-09 05:10:33
10.   Ken Noe
5 I wonder if the Tribe came back and told Ned he could have some other short-term rentals too if he threw in a pitcher and Kemp with Andy.
2008-07-09 06:58:49
11.   old dodger fan
7 I have 3 computers and ran the updates this morning on 2 of them before I read your post. No problems so far. You probably have a lot of applications that I don't.
2008-07-09 07:08:01
12.   PalmdaleSteve1
How about DT caravan cum road trip to Spring training '09 in Arizona as a fund raiser for DT?

Block of rooms in Peoria, nightly Adult beverages, face time with some of the "boys"....I might even go for that.

2008-07-09 07:19:30
13.   okdodge
Another off topic subject: I have an interview at work for a huge promotion in 40 minutes, I'm so nervous!!!! Ok, now I need to get back to cramming office policy for possible questions. Wish me luck :)
2008-07-09 07:22:38
14.   old dodger fan
13 Good luck.
2008-07-09 07:27:03
15.   Bob Timmermann
Good luck. And remember, difficult personnel problems should always be referred to H.R.

That's one of my favorite answers.

2008-07-09 07:48:48
16.   Jon Weisman
15 - I know that's who I turn to.

2008-07-09 08:17:04
17.   Neal Pollack
That is good news about Mattingly. I feel like Easler has led many hitters astray this season.
2008-07-09 08:39:45
18.   Eric L
Saw this on ESPN's main page:

"Report: Dodgers will make Mattingly hit coach"

So which coach are they going to make him hit?

2008-07-09 08:41:16
19.   Doctor

Agree, only concern I have is doesn't it take weeks and months for a new coach to effect changes? Heads are spinning at this point changing coaches every year. But I guess Mattingly has been working with them on and off all year (which might have been adding to the mess).

2008-07-09 08:42:32
20.   Bob Timmermann
I'm still more concerned about the ESPN report of Brett Favre sending a text message to the Packers GM.

That's how I make my important career decisions.

2008-07-09 08:43:00
21.   KingKopitar
How important are hitting coaches?
2008-07-09 08:44:03
22.   still bevens
Mattingly seemed to have a positive effect on Andruw after you would read about the two working together. If he can make a difference with Druw and get Kemp to smoke fastballs like he did when he was first called up thats good enough for me.
2008-07-09 08:58:51
23.   dzzrtRatt
18 It's got to be Bowa. He's been cruisin' for a bruisin' since he got to town.

Bowa is Joe Torre's id, and Mattingly is his superego.

Flying eastward last night, a Yankee fan told me the best thing the Dodgers have going for them is Joe Torre. When I replied that I didn't think it was working out quite as well as I'd hoped, that in fact he's making some puzzling decisions that seem to be harmful to the team's prospects, she blamed it on L.A. "He's not an L.A. kind of guy."

So there you have it. It's not Torre, it's us.

2008-07-09 09:02:19
24.   Bob Timmermann
Torre is not like the quintessential L.A. guy: Walter Alston.
2008-07-09 09:02:46
25.   Bob Hendley
So, if Marky T's hit was edited out, its like it didn't happen, right?

Occasionally, I have to view the Bums using the archives. I try to ignore the highlights, as they usually foretell the outcome. However, once I saw a highlight that said that the benches had been cleared. I expected to see what is usually the worst of the worst, a baseball fight. But all it was was a bunch of guys milling around on the field and I assumed that it must of been a Mongo/gas incident.

2008-07-09 09:03:19
26.   underdog
I'm happy to have Mattingly back on board. I don't like the idea of any hitting coach scapegoated for a team's hitting woes, so I feel bad for Easler if that's how it feels, but it's clear Mattingly has had some positive affects on at least some of the hitters when he's consulted with them. I think this will be good.

23 Yay, Ratt found a laptop it appears. ;-)

2008-07-09 09:04:47
27.   underdog
24 Or Tommy Lasorda. That guy had LA written all over him from the moment he first got off the bus from Philly.
2008-07-09 09:08:19
28.   KingKopitar
25 Baseball fights are so boring. Nobody knows how to fight and they never even bleed. C'mon, face wash that guy!
2008-07-09 09:09:16
29.   regfairfield
So has anyone been able to figure out why the A's were willing to dump Harden for Chad Gaudin with less service time and a couple bench players?
2008-07-09 09:09:40
30.   CanuckDodger
AT BP, Will Carroll, not for the first time, says the Dodger front office is divided, and that teams don't want to deal with the Dodgers because of the confusion. Carroll claims that he has been told that at least two deals have been made that ownership stepped in and quashed.
2008-07-09 09:10:08
31.   adrian beltre
i live in new york now and its really frightening hearing their take on things, especially when those thigns enter my realm of focus like torre with the dodgers. they really, sincerely think things like torre is a winner and if he doesn't win in la its gotta have something to do with la. also frightening is the way elton brand handled his business. something must be seriously wrong with the clips.
2008-07-09 09:11:23
32.   regfairfield
I guess I kind of answered my own question if they figured Harden is going on the DL.
2008-07-09 09:13:59
33.   CanuckDodger
29 -- Isn't it obvious? Harden is damaged goods. The A's know it better than anyone, and unfortunately for the A's, everybody else around baseball knows it too. Harden will probably be on the DL in a week or two, and then the A's get nothing in trade.
2008-07-09 09:16:45
34.   CanuckDodger
33 -- Let me clarify my statement: If the A's had hung onto Harden longer they would've got nothing in trade.
2008-07-09 09:20:37
35.   dzzrtRatt
26 I'm confused. I was complaining about not having a laptop?

If I was, I was probably typing the complaints on my laptop.

I am a bit schizoid, however, so anything's possible.

Anyway...if Carroll's perception is true then good for the Dodgers. Let teams try to blow us away with trade offers. If a team really, really wants one of our guys, they need to know that only offers that will impress Colletti, Ng, White and McCourt will be considered.

2008-07-09 09:24:18
36.   regfairfield
33 Yeah, looking at it assuming Harden will barely play, the A's win the trade.
2008-07-09 09:25:51
37.   Bob Hendley
I had one of those encounters with a Yanks fan this weekend. He asked about Torre and you can tell he expected me to marvel about him. I told him that it hadn't been a smooth process. That basically we have a lot of young players and that he was still trying to get to know what he had and figure out the best way to use them. The fellow seemed crestfallen, but said that while he missed Torre, the Yanks were reloading and it was better for them to have a new manager because Torre wouldn't have been able to deal with the situation. Great.
2008-07-09 09:30:22
38.   underdog
35 - Oh huh, I thought you the one traveling to NY who said he may not be able to check Dodger Thoughts while away. That may have been someone else. I don't have my DT Personnel Tracking Sheet in front of me. Never mind!


Hm, wasn't Will Carroll the one also predicting for 2 years running that Chad Billingsley's body was going to fall apart any second now?

2008-07-09 09:33:22
39.   dzzrtRatt
I was in NY for a couple of hours, waiting for a late connection to Richmond, VA, where I am now.

I will probably be following tonight's game via you all plus Gameday, unless by some miracle ESPN is covering it. I love monitoring the games that way. With apologies to Merle Haggard, it's not Vin Scully, but it's not bad.

2008-07-09 09:36:47
40.   old dodger fan
39 You live in Richmond?
2008-07-09 09:41:19
41.   Eric Stephen
If Mattingly can solve the Matt Kemp puzzle, it will be great for the club. Hopefully Mattingly's expertise isn't limited to his like kind: sweet-swinging lefty first basemen.
2008-07-09 09:45:05
42.   JoeyP
30--That would follow with the Tony Jackson story on McCourt quashing the CC for Kemp deal.
2008-07-09 09:47:36
43.   JoeyP
29--The thinking was that Harden has a 7mil option for 2009 that the A's were not going to exercise. They also didnt think he'd pitch enough innings this year to qualify as a Type A free agent.

His velocity is reportedly down, so they made the deal now rather than wait a couple more weeks.

Beane really likes Gallagher apparently.

2008-07-09 09:48:31
44.   KG16
41 - I don't know, the Dodgers do have a sweet-swinging lefty first baseman
2008-07-09 09:51:41
45.   Eric Stephen
That's what I meant. Mattingly joined the club in Chicago a few weeks back and tinkered a bit with Loney, who had (coincidentally or not) a good run soon after.

I'm saying I hope Mattingly isn't only able to help sweet swinging 1B like he was.

2008-07-09 09:51:41
46.   Bob Timmermann
But some want a sweet swinging switch hitter first baseman.
2008-07-09 09:53:11
47.   dzzrtRatt
40 No, I live in the LA area. Richmond is one of the cities I visit for my job. This is my second time here since the beginning of the year. I liked the weather a lot better in January!

My irregular circuit takes me to a lot of AAA cities. I saw a game in OK City a couple months ago. I'll be in New Orleans and Portland hopefully before the season's over. I don't know what Richmond's team is doing the next couple days, but I might try to see them.

2008-07-09 09:54:08
48.   Bob Timmermann
The team in Richmond and the team in Atlanta are often interchangeable this year.
2008-07-09 09:56:16
49.   Eric Stephen
Much like the Portland/San Diego interchangeability. Old friend Brian Myrow, fresh off the plane from Portland, hit his 1st ML HR last evening.
2008-07-09 09:56:43
50.   CanuckDodger
42 -- It also suggests that the quote in Jackson's story about McCourt and Colletti being on the same page in not liking the deal is a lie. If there WAS a Kemp/Sabathia deal Colletti had to have made it, and he wouldn't have made it unless he liked it. Another possibility is that Carroll's sources are wrong -- that they have an inaccurate perception of what is going on with the Dodgers and they are trying to cast the Dodgers in a bad light because they are angry that the Dodgers aren't just caving to their trade demands.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-07-09 09:58:55
51.   KG16
45 - ah, gotcha, clearly, I need coffee. Lots and lots of coffee.
2008-07-09 10:08:27
52.   Terry A
30 - Isn't there someone else out there -- Tim Brown, Buster Olney, Keith Law... somebody, anyway -- saying the same thing about discord in the Dodger FO?

If this is accurate (and please note use of the word "if"), it may shed light on Colletti's recent tendency to dump blame on some of the player personnel people.

2008-07-09 10:08:36
53.   Neal Pollack
I was at the game last night so I missed the chat. We probably had no shot anyway, but was anyone else criticizing the way Torre handled the staff? Having Bills bunt in the fifth, come in the sixth and effectively give up the game for good--that's not good management. You pinch-hit for him with a man on, bring Kuo in to pitch the 6th, then maybe you're down 3-1 instead of 6-0. But what do I know? I'm no baseball professional.
2008-07-09 10:11:00
54.   Neal Pollack
52--It seems to me that most of the Dodgers' problems have to do with the front office right now.

Also, at the game last night, there were a LOT of people booing Kemp and yelling "bring back Pierre." I had to keep my fists to myself. That said, Kemp DID suck up the joint last night.

2008-07-09 10:12:03
55.   Eric Stephen
Derek Lowe has faced off against Tim Hudson thrice before (once while both were in the AL), and is 2-1 against him:

May 9, 2002
Lowe: 8 IP, 1 ER, 2/1 BB/K, Win
Hudson: 7 IP, 4 ER, 1/5 BB/K, Loss

April 3, 2006
Lowe: 5 IP, 7 ER, 1/2 BB/K, Loss
Hudson: 4 IP, 5 ER, 3/3 BB/K, ND

May 5, 2007
Lowe: 7 IP, 0 ER, 2/8 BB/K, Win
Hudson: 8 IP, 3 ER, 0/3 BB/K, Loss

2008-07-09 10:14:02
56.   bhsportsguy
53 But I think with no off-days and it with Stults and Park lined up to pitch the next few days, you need to keep your bullpen ready, especially Kuo for those games. No one was hitting Atlanta's pitcher so sending either Young or LaRoche up there probably wasn't that appealing at that moment.

Chad should have been able to get through the 6th, he got by (aside from the one pitch to McCann) the toughest part of their lineup.

Call it a friendly disagreement but I don't see the harm of letting Chad continue in the game.

2008-07-09 10:14:42
57.   Jon Weisman
50 - Both your scenarios are clearly possible. I just would emphasize that the "nix" scenario doesn't mean Colletti's on the chopping block, or any more so than he was before. Entirely possible that McCourt nixed the deal and gave Colletti a vote of confidence. You can debate how much that vote of confidence is worth, but we're still in speculation mode.

53 - I was fine with leaving Chad in. I thought he had two good innings left. He has often righted himself after a bad inning.

2008-07-09 10:15:05
58.   CanuckDodger
52 -- I imagine the sources that talk to Carroll talk to those other guys too. My point is that those sources don't seem to be within the Dodger organization. They are outsiders looking in, and perhaps they have an unclear view, or quite baldly are trying to grind their own axes with what sort of information they pass on to journalists.
2008-07-09 10:15:51
59.   regfairfield
Dave Cameron ranks the top 50 players in terms of trade value. Russ comes in at 18 behind Mauer and McCann, likely because those two are already wrapped up, Bills is at 25 and Loney is at 50. I don't agree with putting Loney over Kemp, but it's a good showing.

2008-07-09 10:16:37
60.   regfairfield
57 I agree, Bills was getting nickel and dimed in the fifth, I had no probem with him coming back. Bringing in Troncoso was a mistake though.
2008-07-09 10:17:09
61.   bhsportsguy
54 I have heard those things too at times, a lot of attendees are down on LaRoche too.

But they cheer for Nomar. And boo Jones.

Maybe the media just dislikes front offices generally, it just when its people you don't like, it doesn't bother some as much.

2008-07-09 10:18:54
62.   madmac
33 It's like he was born to pitch for the Cubs. Well atleast born to be a pitcher for the Cubs.
2008-07-09 10:19:23
63.   Doctor

What a joke, it was an ugly game but he snapped a 7 game hitting streak and gets boo'd? .... D'okay.

2008-07-09 10:20:02
64.   Terry A
58 - It's also entirely possible that those guys are using Carroll's reporting as their source.

Maybe someone could ask Tony Jackson to elaborate on the alleged tension in the front office. No Dodger beat writers or columnists have noted it, have they?

2008-07-09 10:20:39
65.   bhsportsguy
60 Who else is left, Borg? Or maybe Wade.

Interesting comment from Buster Olney, he just said that there is a difference between the Brewers and the Dodgers in this sense, for Milwaukee, getting CC to go for the playoffs makes a lot of sense, for the Dodgers, trading someone like Kemp (why his name keeps coming up who knows) for CC to win the West doesn't solve the problem of how to advance through the playoffs.

2008-07-09 10:20:55
66.   old dodger fan
So the fans are booing Jones and Kemp. Anybody else?
2008-07-09 10:21:40
67.   regfairfield
65 I bring in Kuo probably, or at least Beimel or Wade. The game was going to be out of reach if those guys scored, you had to shut down the inning.
2008-07-09 10:23:33
68.   bhsportsguy
67 Okay, I really think they wanted to give Kuo another day off after pitching twice in three days over the weekend. But Beimel would be an okay choice, though he was a bit rusty when he finally did come in the game.
2008-07-09 10:23:34
69.   Lexinthedena
Most of the games I go to, Kemp gets big cheers. I think he was booed more for sucking so bad yesterday.
2008-07-09 10:24:08
70.   bhsportsguy
66 They booed Chad last night after the 5th.
2008-07-09 10:24:15
71.   regfairfield
Yeah, I think a golden sombrero means you get booed, no matter who you are.
2008-07-09 10:32:39
72.   okdodge
47 Next time your in Okc for business, let me know. I'll go catch a AAA game w/ ya. My dad and I go about once a week anyway. The Rangers have a prospect who is tearing it up, the guy is pretty fun to watch.

2008-07-09 10:33:29
73.   taikwanboe
The rumor that McCourt squashed a Kemp+others for CC deal makes no sense to me. The Dodgers have allowed the fewest runs in the NL but are only outscoring the Giants, Padres, and Nationals. It's like the complete opposite of the type of move Colletti should be thinking about. Were we really going to go with an OF of Jones, Ethier, and DY/Repko?

The bit about Casey Blake is also pretty peculiar seeing as Torre won't give LaRoche a chance to take 3B away from DeWitt. Unless they were going to move him to SS?

2008-07-09 10:33:58
74.   Bob Timmermann
I would only go to OKC for exciting NBA action.
2008-07-09 10:36:06
75.   Bob Timmermann
Casey Blake is inexplicably popular among the fans of Cleveland.
2008-07-09 10:36:38
76.   bhsportsguy
73 Well, I think they are concerned about Penny and CC would be better than Stults, Park or Kershaw. A rotation with Chad, Kuroda, Lowe, Penny and CC even with our limited offense would give the team a chance to win every game.

I mean I could sell it that way if I was to make that deal. And had the deal been, oh let's say LaRoche and McDonald for CC, I would be tempted to do it.

2008-07-09 10:36:49
77.   old dodger fan
I see several AAA games every year. I see a lot of great young players headed up and usually at least one older one headed down which always prompts me to say to my wife, "I remember when he played for ..." and she politely smiles as her eyes glaze over.
2008-07-09 10:38:21
78.   Terry A
73 - DY/Repko would go away as soon as Pierre returns. Remember, Colletti has made no bones about his affinity for Pierre, and Torre -- who made absolutely boneheaded comments about being "OK" with Pierre's OBP -- seems to feel the same. Neither seems particularly enthralled by Kemp.
2008-07-09 10:39:42
79.   Eric Stephen
The Dodgers have had three Golden Sombreros™ in the last 9 days.

2008-07-09 10:40:29
80.   Howard Fox
77 I usually have to wake my wife to tell her stuff like that

78 after watching Kemp at the game last night, I'm not particularly enthralled by Kemp either

2008-07-09 10:42:51
81.   Doctor
Pierre will be back to lead off when he comes back, we might as well get used to it. Torre isn't happy with the job Kemp is doing there, but basically said that the leadoff hitter must have speed so he's not going to change it... pretty clear we can't get away from that problem.
2008-07-09 10:43:19
82.   bhsportsguy
78 How does Kemp playing just about everyday since April equate to not being enthralled by Kemp?

Kemp has great talent but he has not progressed as a hitter like Martin, Loney or recently Ethier. He gets by on just his athletic ability but as a baseball player, he is still learning.

I don't like how the Dodgers try to challenge him by vague comments to the press but over the last 2 months, he has been in the biggest slump of his career.

2008-07-09 10:44:30
83.   Eric Stephen
we might as well get used to it

That made me think of a famous Bobby Knight 60 Minutes interview with Connie Chung.

2008-07-09 10:47:03
84.   bhsportsguy
They were more fun when they were cursed.

Residents of Washington, D.C. and the remaining 44 states may now apply for the position of [Red Sox] Governor.

Deadline for submissions is July 29. For more information and to apply, visit Governors will be selected on or about August 12.

The selected Governors will receive an Unlimited Fenway Park Tours Pass for two, two tickets to a select 2008 Red Sox regular season game, a Certificate of Governorship signed by the President/CEO of the Red Sox, periodic "Governors Only" conference calls with the Vice President of Red Sox Nation and a select Red Sox executive, a Red Sox Nation shirt, a 2009 Red Sox Nation Fan Pack Citizenship, a subscription to, personalized "Red Sox Nation Governor" business cards and a photograph of the Fenway Park centerfield videoboard with their name on it.

2008-07-09 10:48:19
85.   Howard Fox
82 my problem with Kemp is he seems not to learn...maybe I am wrong, and maybe it is lousy coaches...a 2 month slump isn't major, or maybe it is, if he doesn't adjust to the pitchers as they seem to have adjusted to him
2008-07-09 10:48:56
86.   regfairfield
You might say he's not coachable...
2008-07-09 10:49:14
87.   Doctor
Kemp is practically on a hot streak compared to some the ruts the young players in AZ and FLA have been allowed to work through this year and last.
2008-07-09 10:50:16
88.   Bob Timmermann
Kemp has been branded as "uncoachable" or "someone who has to be told five times to learn one thing."

That brand will never escape him I fear.

2008-07-09 10:51:14
89.   Howard Fox
88 that goes along with the branding from Kent as being one of "those" young players
2008-07-09 10:52:14
90.   Bob Timmermann
The media in Boston started hating Ted Williams in 1939 and kept it up for his whole career.

I think he came out OK.

2008-07-09 10:53:44
91.   underdog
The booing of everyone now I suppose could be called more democratic than just booing Andruw Jones but it's really starting to get to me. Do other teams' fans boo as much as Dodger fans do these days? It seems pretty classless and lazy, frankly - as if, "when in doubt, boo" is a new philosophy.

But I've ranted about this before. Ignore me.

65 That's kind of funny, considering the same Olney was one who only a couple of weeks ago was criticizing the Dodgers for not making a move to acquire more pitching! I remember laughing at that then because they already clearly did NOT have a pitching issue; they needed more offense. Now it sounds like Olney's either come to his senses, done an about face, or is slightly schizophrenic.

The point is, most of these "experts" don't know any more than guys in their basements.

Now if you'll excuse me, my pop-tarts are burning and my mom is calling me.

2008-07-09 10:53:45
92.   ToyCannon
I thought only Blake DeWitt was in the biggest slump of his career.
2008-07-09 10:55:18
93.   Terry A
82 - I can't find my login info for the P-E on my work computer, so I can't access the recent story about Kemp in the leadoff position. But IIRC, in that story, Torre dismisses Pierre's horrible OBP by saying, essentially, "But gosh, he's fast when he does get on," as if to excuse the fact that Pierre, you know, hardly ever actually does get on base. I believe it's this same article in which he criticizes -- or at best very faintly praises -- Kemp.
2008-07-09 10:55:46
94.   JoeyP
If Kemp could learn to hit home runs, I'm sure he would.

Its not a coaching thing.
Kemp just isnt a very big difference maker if he's not lanuching balls over the fence. That isnt a coaching thing. Its just a talent thing.

2008-07-09 10:56:52
95.   okdodge
Man Bob, you're really against OK today. Too bad, if you every came out here you'd probably like it.

I like how in our local rag they're referring to our new NBA team as the OKC TBD's.

2008-07-09 10:57:23
96.   Howard Fox
92 he is...except for the past 2 games
2008-07-09 10:58:53
97.   Howard Fox
Kemp is just one of those players who is either hot or cold, no in between.
2008-07-09 10:59:01
98.   Bob Timmermann
Discussing booing here is a topic that gets people upset.

Some want to boo. Some defend the rights of fans to boo (xeifrank is the president of the ACLBoo). Some don't want to boo.

It's all a mess.

I think it comes down to the fact that the Dodgers attract a base of many casual fans who don't have much connection to the players and they just boo any negative outcome now.

The average LA sports fan has deeper feelings about Sasha Vujacic than Chad Billingsley.

2008-07-09 10:59:33
99.   ToyCannon
The biggest shock of driving cross country recently was finding that OK was pretty. I expected dust bowls.
2008-07-09 11:00:21
100.   underdog
98 - Booooo!

No, but seriously... sad but true.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-07-09 11:00:24
101.   Bob Timmermann
Oklahoma is my second favorite state that begins with the letter O.

And it's got the lead by a wide margin over the third place state.

2008-07-09 11:01:36
102.   Bob Timmermann
Seriously, I have only been in Oklahoma once and I was 5 and on a train. However, that does allow me to cross it off my list of states I've visited.

All I know about Oklahoma comes friends who grew up in Texas, so it may not be the best source.

2008-07-09 11:01:38
103.   Neal Pollack
This may be controversial to say, but I think that the booing of Kemp is racially-based, at least in part. The racism of Dodger fans (and sports fans in general) doesn't get talked about as much. Kemp is vaguely hip-hop, he flashes some jewelry, he has an "attitude." I think this also comes through, in a far more pretentious way, in Plaschke's writing about him.

Jones, on the other hand, just gets booed because he sucks.

2008-07-09 11:02:59
104.   okdodge
Ok, I gotta know, did we beat out Oregon or Ohio?
2008-07-09 11:04:17
105.   Bob Timmermann
That could be true, but the fans don't boo Juan Pierre or Russell Martin all that much.

And most of them don't know who Cory Wade or Delwyn Young are.

2008-07-09 11:05:06
106.   Neal Pollack
Russell Martin is half-white, and therefore exempt. Pierre, well, he obviously is a master hypnotist.
2008-07-09 11:05:27
107.   Bob Timmermann
You haven't been reading the Griddle recently about my trip to Cleveland have you?

Ohio and I don't get along.

Oregon's best attraction is visiting the shrine at D4P's childhood home.

2008-07-09 11:06:01
108.   jasonungar07
Since when does Kemp get booed? Am I missing something? Last night? See this is sad I have to say it like this and sure you can maybe make a case for Piazza but people would boo Kirk Gibson if he k'ed 4 times.
2008-07-09 11:06:03
109.   LoneStar7
98 its pretty hard not to have strong feelings about sasha though, you either love him or loathe him..but thats all i hope to say about the lakers right now, still too soon
2008-07-09 11:06:25
110.   okdodge
I've actually never read the griddle. My apoligies. Maybe today is the day I start.
2008-07-09 11:07:10
111.   Howard Fox
I sincerely doubt the booing is racially based.

Dodger fans boo cause many (not all) of the players are over-hyped, and as such we expect the players to live up to how great they are supposed to be. Plus we live in LA where we expect bang for our buck and have to endure a high cost of living.

2008-07-09 11:07:39
112.   underdog
103 I think there may be some truth to that regarding Plaschke, although he adores Pierre, so I don't know... and with fans, who knows, it's hard to generalize such a diverse group. People have their reasons (or lack thereof), but I think it's more out of general stupidity or fickleness than anything racial. Anytime Kemp does something special, anything great out there, he gets a huge round of applause. Too many fans are just being lazy and fickle, not anything overtly racist, in my opinion.
2008-07-09 11:07:41
113.   blue22
97 - Do you mean at-bat to at-bat, game-to-game, or month-to-month? Because I think he's pretty consistent overall. Since last season, he's never had an monthly OPS higher than 938 or lower than 725.
2008-07-09 11:08:00
114.   Reddog
What's clear is that Dodger management is much more forgiving about a PVL performing dismally than a young player. If a young player starts off hot, he's got a chance to play, but if he shows little in his first couple of opportunities, he becomes a benchwarmer.
2008-07-09 11:08:31
115.   Bob Timmermann
You can start with this:
2008-07-09 11:09:55
116.   Bob Timmermann
Plus we live in LA where we expect bang for our buck and have to endure a high cost of living.

And our inherent nature makes it unable for us to properly appreciate Joe Torre.

2008-07-09 11:11:29
117.   ToyCannon
How come D4P only posts DeWitts OPS for a month when it blows?
DeWitt July OPS/OPS+ = 725/105

That June OPS+ of 32 is as bizarre as the 148 in May.

You wouldn't have thought it possible but A Jones has a lower OPS in July then he did in April/May. A 3 home run game tonight should do the trick.

2008-07-09 11:14:10
118.   LoneStar7
103 but I wouldn't say its his appearance that gets him booed, if anything it may be more the stuff he says or the way he says it, we all know he's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I've heard enough of him to believe that he is a good guy and a hard worker.

I was at the game last night and i think the booing i heard was just out general frustration, not anything racially charged

2008-07-09 11:17:41
120.   underdog
Sounds good. Where do I sign that petition?
2008-07-09 11:18:43
121.   Xeifrank
98. Just to clarify. I don't boo. I just don't get bothered or take offense to those that do boo. I don't like boo-ing if it's loud and done near my eardrums. I don't like personal insults and obsenities yelled at players, umps, managers etc..., but boos are ok by me. I don't take them too serious. vr, Xei
2008-07-09 11:19:38
122.   fanerman
Hah I just saw that Elton Brand left the Clippers for more money in Philadelphia. I wonder Mr. Boom Dizzle feels.
2008-07-09 11:22:22
123.   bhsportsguy
One thing is clear, Matt Kemp hits best when he hits the ball early in the count, first pitch, 1-0, 0-1, 1-1, is where he does his damage, getting deep into the count has not worked well for him so far.
2008-07-09 11:24:43
124.   ToyCannon
If I was a player I'd change my name to Boog and that way in my brain I'd always rationalize they are chanting my name.

The way I handle players like A Jones who are in a slump is to cheer them when they come up and sit on my hands when they strike out. They know they suck they don't need us to remind them of that but I'm sure when they are going through a tough time, hearing your home crowd behind you has to count for something. That of course depends on if I like the player in the slump. I never saw my Dad boo anyone which is just another instant of my father teaching me how to behave by his actions and not his words.

2008-07-09 11:26:22
125.   Tom Meagher
75 Inexplicably popular? Then he must be extremely popular. Blake was a pretty worthless player already past his nominal prime when Cleveland signed him, and he's been a very cheap player turning in league average or better performances each year. Free bad talent that turns into pretty good talent is generally popular with the fans.

Also, I like the Harden deal for the A's even if he ends up avoiding the DL. Briefly, I don't see how Gallagher is a less valuable asset than Harden, Murton is already the best hitter the A's have against LHP (with Thomas on the DL), and Patterson and Donaldson is a pretty decent return for Gaudin who is already in his arb years and who is redundant on the A's major league roster (they've got five better RHP relievers and Gio Gonzalez could match him as the sixth starter). Anyway, there's more at the 5th OF.

103 I agree. I don't know if DT has already discussed it, but the evidence is pretty compelling and wide-ranging. Kemp has been treated as if he should be playing like someone who has been playing baseball at a high level his whole life instead of for six or seven years during which he has been aggressively promoted. Lack of experience is conflated with a "lack of intelligence." He's criticized for not showing more power when his minor league ISO never exceeded .211, and that was in the Sally League at age 19; there are very few players that show more power in the major leagues at this age than Kemp is showing now, and few of them have a total package exceeding Kemp's.

Kemp gets criticized for not having a perfect mental approach for the game, and this is supposedly his fault. Well, then why are the things they are talking about drilled relentlessly into the heads of seven-year-olds who get to build on that training for another 15 years before being where Kemp is now? It's because there is a difference between intellectually understanding these things about baseball and committing it to instinct/intuition/muscle memory. The bulk of the criticisms against Kemp seem to amount to faulting him for not fitting in with the bevy of suburban players who have 15-20 years of baseball training.

2008-07-09 11:26:41
126.   Xeifrank
123. Do you have a breakdown by pitch count?
vr, Xei
2008-07-09 11:27:54
127.   JoeyP
125--If Murton is the best hitter the As have vs lefties, then why did they have him report to AAA?
2008-07-09 11:30:03
128.   LoneStar7
Druw still gets the sarcastic roars and standing o's when he does so much as draw a walk..poor guy, he just needs to really jack one out here, and by here i mean dodger stadium..he has to hit one at home before Slappy does right?
2008-07-09 11:31:14
129.   ToyCannon
Mr Boom has the security of his contract, the Clipper fans however feel betrayed since they signed the Baron with idea that Bland would accept less to have the best point guard in the history of the franchise to play with after saying he was all about making sacrifices for winning.
He may get more all-star berths in Philly but he won't get any more winning and Philly is the last place I'd want to be at back end of his contract.

I blame the Clippers for giving Dunleavy an extension and not sacking him. Other then an injury prone 29 year old point guard desperate for an extension who would freely choose to play for that control freak.

Maggette is going to have fun in Golden State playing for the wild one until he gets hurt.

2008-07-09 11:31:41
130.   schoffle
I am not sure where all this talk of Matt Kemp being simple (which is a more polite term than many here seem to be using and not just today) comes from. I am not claiming that he is Einstein or anything but I have heard him in interviews and he has never come off that way to me, so I am wondering why this has become accepted group knowledge? Is there anything specific to support this notion or are a few over exuberant base running errors and perceived difficulties with pitch recognition all that is needed to support this label?
2008-07-09 11:33:53
131.   regfairfield
Murton is like Delwyn Young. His bat isn't really good enough to start and he doesn't have the defensive value to play anywhere but a corner. This leaves him in the role of a guy you use instead of paying Ricky Ledee. Murton is a nice guy to have on your team, but if he's starting, you probably have issues.
2008-07-09 11:34:33
132.   Alex41592
123 - To give everybody an idea: OBP/SLG/OPS

Matt Kemp: This season:
0-0 Count: .415/.756/1.171
1-0 Count: .480/.680/1.160
1-1 Count: .452/.742/1.194
0-1 Count: .433/.621/1.054

0-2 Count: .152/.182/.333
1-2 Count: .143/.214/.357
2-2 Count: .182/.204/.386
2-1 Count: .167/.273/.439
3-1 Count: (4 AB's with 2 hits and 5 walks)
3-2 Count: .459/.360/.819

2008-07-09 11:35:03
133.   Bob Timmermann
I think Blake had also been on a recent hot streak so that might have helped his cause.

And the Indians really didn't have anyone else starting, aside from Sizemore, who would set hearts aflutter.

Ryan Garko and Jamey Carroll don't get people excited.

2008-07-09 11:36:54
134.   El Lay Dave
126 Career numbers:
2008-07-09 11:37:16
135.   bhsportsguy
132 And it pretty much breaks out the same over his first two years too.
2008-07-09 11:38:36
137.   Bob Timmermann
Remember that EVERY player has worse numbers with two strikes on him because there are more ways to make an out with two strikes on you than with none or one.
2008-07-09 11:41:14
138.   bhsportsguy
130 I believe, despite Greg Brock's thoughts on the topic, that kind of talk revolves around his ability to learn from his short comings on the field and not repeat them.

What bugs some here is that Kemp's mistakes seem to be more unforgiving than those by veterans and that is talent and production does not get love like lesser producing veterans do.

2008-07-09 11:41:36
139.   Alex41592
137 - Yes, if you look at Lance Berkman's numbers for example he's awful behind in the count (0-1, 1-2). That's the norm. Or like Bob said anybody who plays will have worse numbers with two strikes and/or behind in the count.
2008-07-09 11:41:43
140.   Tom Meagher
127 Did they really? It's probably because they're not ready to ditch Emil Brown and didn't particularly feel it was the right time to send anyone else down. Unless you insist on 2008 numbers as The Truth, it is clear from the numbers that Murton is easily their best batter against LHP.

131 Murton has a better bat than Young does. Of course you don't really want him starting against RHP, but the A's have plenty of better options against RHP (Cust, Gonzalez, Buck, Sweeney). Murton is great as the 1/3 part of the platoon and adequate as a 4th OF / injury fill-in against RHP. Given the players the A's have to work with, that's a very valuable piece for them. I fully agree he has little value on the Cubs, where though he'd be an upgrade over Fukudome against LHP don't need to upset KF because it's a much more marginal upgrade than for the A's.

2008-07-09 11:41:44
141.   Kevin Lewis

Sasha who?


2008-07-09 11:42:16
142.   fanerman
132 Ahhh. I thought the standard form was AVG/OBP/SLG. I was confused for a second.
2008-07-09 11:43:21
143.   cargill06
132 he has yet to have a 2-0 count this season?
2008-07-09 11:44:59
144.   Alex41592
143 - BAH. .167/.167/.333. Only 6 times this season.
2008-07-09 11:46:21
145.   Kevin Lewis

Plus, didn't Kemp pick up baseball much later in life? I think we take for granted the fundamentals a lot of us learn when we were 5, 6, or 7 years old. So much of what I do on the softball diamond is automatic from playing all the through high school, but someone who didn't play that much early on might struggle with base running early on in their career. I mean, I am not a speedy guy, but I know how to run the bases well, yet I can't remember where I learned that... thanks, Dad!

2008-07-09 11:46:29
146.   Alex41592
144 - 6 times this season he's put the ball in play on a 2-0 count.
2008-07-09 11:46:37
147.   El Lay Dave
2007 Major League Splits by pitch count:

0-0 Count .344 .349 .551 .901
1-0 Count .341 .342 .562 .903
2-0 Count .351 .350 .617 .967
3-0 Count .394 .964 .805 1.769

1-1 Count .327 .332 .512 .844
2-1 Count .338 .553 .891 .306
3-1 Count .368 .697 .642 1.339

0-1 Count .324 .332 .480 .813
0-2 Count .166 .177 .235 .412
1-2 Count .178 .186 .263 .449
2-2 Count .195 .200 .300 .500
3-2 Count .233 .469 .385 .853

2008-07-09 11:47:38
148.   JJ42
Let's face it. There is different fan etiquette these days - definitely more of the what have you done for me lately. I strongly disagree that race has anything to do with booing at Dodger Stadium.

Rather, it is the fact that people who have had to deal with ticket price hikes and long concession lines are frustrated with our losing record, our key acquisition hitting .167, and one of star youngsters striking out 4 times.

2008-07-09 11:50:16
150.   Kevin Lewis

I just picked him up off waivers.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-07-09 11:50:40
151.   Tom Meagher
WRT to Kemp and counts, it is fairly obvious that a player who does not draw many walks will have better results on pitches early in the count. Kemp doesn't lay off enough marginal pitches for pitchers to worry much about walking him, so he probably has a lesser quality of pitches later in the count to work with than a more patient hitter would receive, which is not to say that it's even remotely easy to become a more patient hitter. Kemp is much more likely to be behind in a deep count than ahead, so it goes to figure he would be much better when he hits the ball earlier in the count. But that doesn't mean he can just try to get a hit early in the count in every PA - he doesn't get to fiat that the same pitches he's handled early in the count in some of his PA will be there in other PA. His hitting approach is just at equilibrium right now, and as his ability to track and identify pitches improves (assuming it eventually does so, as few 23-year-olds do not eventually get better at this), the equilibrium will shift.
2008-07-09 11:51:11
152.   schoffle

All that suggests is that he has been very good in 7 of a possible 12 counts and very poor in the other 5. Without any context (i.e. league averages for the same counts) how can we come up with any conclusions based on these numbers?

2008-07-09 11:54:19
153.   schoffle
I guess I missed 147
2008-07-09 11:57:01
155.   El Lay Dave
147 The 2-1 line is wrong; it should be:

2-1 Count .338 .338 .553 .891

2008-07-09 11:58:46
156.   GMac In The 909
154 You should change your handle to Old Friend Ticker
2008-07-09 11:58:49
157.   Duranimal
I have no idea how smart Kemp is, but based on what we've seen so far, it seems fair to doubt his baseball instincts. Persoanlly, I don't think a player can improve that part of his game after a certain age.

Everyone's pinning the hopes of the franchise on him, and I think we're going to be disappointed. I hope I'm wrong.

2008-07-09 12:01:31
158.   fanerman
I think Kemp is relatively inexperienced at baseball compared to other major leaguers so traditional rules don't necessarily apply to his learning process. I am still confident that, even if the learning process is slower due to his inexperience, he will improve. I am also a little more optimistic with Donnie Baseball around, maybe without any good reason.
2008-07-09 12:03:41
129 He may get more all-star berths in Philly but he won't get any more winning and Philly is the last place I'd want to be at back end of his contract.

elton brand gets all-star berths because he's pretty good not because of where he plays. philly has a MUCH greater chance of winning than the clippers even if he did stay playing with baron davis next year. look at the roster and the conference they play in. maybe this really is BEST for him in terms of winning AND $$$$$.

2008-07-09 12:05:43
160.   Marty
I was wondering how soon I would be noticing some missing posts.
2008-07-09 12:06:27
161.   fanerman
159 I think ToyCannon was referring to moving to the Eastern Conference and being ranked against the Eastern Conference PF's, and not necessarily that his play will improve in Philadelphia. That said, I think ToyCannon might be short-changing the strength of the 76ers' team a little.
2008-07-09 12:07:53
162.   Tom Meagher
For the record, I know nothing of why anyone at the stadium boos. That being said, it seems a completely unreasonable argument to say that Kemp's booing has nothing to do with racism. I am not saying that the booing must be principally because of racism, but it seems at best extraordinarily naive to argue that racism does not function as at least a tiebreaker. The evidence that race permeates perception among people raised in the US is pretty thorough and compelling, and I think to dismiss its impact on baseball fans is a self-serving fantasy.

I am not at all suggesting that Matt Kemp is Emmett Till and that some Dodger fans are JW Milam. The functioning of contemporary racism does not occur through people deciding to believe in hatred but rather reacting to a system of dynamics that goes back to 1455 from which none of us are exempt. Personally, I saw the preliminary evidence as compelling enough to feel that my responsibility as a white person was to take a scientific approach to studying racism, and that is quite a task requiring addressing a number of fundamental epistemological questions. I am really amazed at how many people are willing to assume that there knowledge of the dynamics of racism is at an advanced level without any sort of comprehensive approach to learning about it when these same people would never feel the same about their knowledge of physics or chemistry. That being said, that isn't the result of bad people but rather the very dynamics that they fail to grasp.

2008-07-09 12:12:40
163.   Kevin Lewis

Tom, thanks for your comments. I am appreciating them immensely.

2008-07-09 12:14:41
164.   underdog
So the Warriors don't resign their best player but they sign Corey Maggette to a five-year contract worth around $50 million. Cool.
2008-07-09 12:16:21
165.   GMac In The 909
165 ... and reportedly signed Turiaf to an offer sheet worth $17 mil over four years.
2008-07-09 12:18:07
166.   JJ42
162 Great comment.
2008-07-09 12:27:43
167.   Flonne

That's Chris Mullin for you.

2008-07-09 12:36:28
168.   blue22
164 - You don't think Baron Davis is a bit overrated? I don't think he's a max-level talent, especially when you have someone like Monta Ellis around to fill his spot.

Maggette is a pretty efficient player when healthy. Plays good D, gets to the line, and is a good shooter.

2008-07-09 12:36:47
169.   Jim Hitchcock
160 I wonder if GMac and Kevin Lewis referring to other's posts are the kiss of death?
2008-07-09 12:39:03
170.   underdog
168 Let's put it this way, I think Davis would've been overpaid by them, but I also think they'll miss him. Maybe not that much if Montae steps up. And I agree, Maggette is a good player, he should help them a lot. But that's a lot of moolah for an efficient player with mild injury risk. We'll see.

Man, I like Ronny T, too, but I bet the Lakers don't match it. They'll miss him.

2008-07-09 12:39:36
171.   Xeifrank
168. Not that I am an expert, but I thought that Maggette's knock was that he was a "poor" defender. Atleast that was the perception that I got from Dunleavy.
vr, Xei
2008-07-09 12:40:05
172.   Howard Fox
162 my belief is that people in general are much too quick to point to racism as the reason for many things in life, booing being just one very minor one...

does it exist, absolutely, but is that the reason people boo Kemp or others? highly doubtful...

I find that the fans boo most of the batters, rightly or wrongly, and I for one can understand the frustration...if I was one of the pitchers on the team, I'd be booing

2008-07-09 12:40:37
173.   Xeifrank
Yankees / 150:1s are locked in a tight game.
As are the Twins and the 2:1s.
vr, Xei
2008-07-09 12:43:00
174.   blue22
171 - You know, he used to have the reputation as a good man-to-man defender, but reading some quick scouting reports right now says that he has slipped some.
2008-07-09 12:44:04
175.   Neal Pollack
There's a weird dynamic in Dodger-land, because a lot of the fans I see booing Kemp are Hispanic, and there's a long history--to say the least--of racial tension between blacks and Latinos in Los Angeles. Of course, 99 percent of Hispanic fans DON'T boo Kemp, but I think that you can't discount the gulf between the fan base here at DT, mostly college-educated liberals, and the Dodger fan base at large, for whom booing a black guy might not be such a taboo.

Am I treading on thin ice here?

2008-07-09 12:45:26
176.   Xeifrank
175. I would say so.
vr, Xei
2008-07-09 12:45:34
177.   Neal Pollack
Note that the same dynamic applies to working-class "white" fans in the South.
2008-07-09 12:46:42
178.   Bob Timmermann
I bet bluebleeder wouldn't boo Matt Kemp.
2008-07-09 12:46:45
179.   Howard Fox
now you've slipped under the ice
2008-07-09 12:47:19
180.   Neal Pollack
Foot, meet mouth.
2008-07-09 12:49:58
181.   bryanf
Jon, I've been MIA for a few days, but I wanted to respond to your post about the future of Dodger Thoughts. Basically, I hate paying for anything online. I'm so spoiled by free content that it really pains me to pay for things. That said, I wouldn't think twice about paying a fee to read any content you provide, even it was an ESPN Insider kind of format where some stuff was free and some stuff wasn't.

That being said, I would really love to see Full RSS feeds and RSS feeds for the comments on Baseball Toaster in general and would definitely pay for that too...

2008-07-09 12:50:16
182.   Neal Pollack
I swear to God, my life is an online Curb Your Enthusiasm episode.
2008-07-09 12:53:13
183.   LoneStar7
175 In my honest opinion I just think we've read into this way too much, I'm not sure how a guy getting booed for a earning a golden sombrero win the midst of a blow out is being considered an act of racism?
2008-07-09 12:53:52
184.   cargill06
my rule of thumb is any argument or discussion about racism is something probably best left alone, not much good cna come from it and it seems like it's just too easy to say something that is taken the wrong way. not speaking from personal experience just something i've learned
2008-07-09 12:54:45
185.   Terry A
I resent the pejorative term "golden sombrero."

I submit "golden trucker hat" as an alternative.

2008-07-09 12:57:45
186.   Neal Pollack
Touché, Terry.
2008-07-09 12:59:54
187.   Terry A
All in fun, my friend. All in fun.
2008-07-09 13:06:47
188.   Xeifrank
Stolen base in NYY game just increased the Yankee's WE by 12.8%.
vr, Xei
2008-07-09 13:07:57
189.   Xeifrank
The Melk Man strikes out with winning run on 3rd with one out. vr, Xei
2008-07-09 13:08:29
190.   Xeifrank
Free baseball in the large apple.
vr, Xei
2008-07-09 13:09:41
191.   Xeifrank
Grant Balfour, just doesn't seem like a very good baseball name for a pitcher.
vr, Xei
2008-07-09 13:10:28
192.   underdog
182 and 185 both made me laugh out loud.

So there's that.

Anyway, I always hope, perhaps naively, that Dodger fans of all stripes (and even those without stripes!) could come together, find common ground in the one color we all share a vested interest in: Blue.

But, I realize that between tensions about the world in general these days, people's frustrations with their own lives, frustrations with each other living in a huge tense city, and so on, that that dream won't be realized every moment of every game.

2008-07-09 13:11:12
193.   jujibee
The newest from Rosenthal is great. I particularly like this excerpt:

The Dodgers not only could have had Sabathia, but also Indians third baseman Casey Blake and infielder Jamey Carroll without giving up any of their top young major leaguers, according to major-league sources.

The Indians would have received a package that included the following types of players, if not the exact names: Third baseman Andy LaRoche, right-hander Cory Wade, Class AA right-hander James McDonald and Class A catcher Carlos Santana.

As always, according to ......sources.

2008-07-09 13:13:15
194.   still bevens
You'll pry Carlos Santana from our cold dead hands.
2008-07-09 13:14:13
195.   Terry A
192 - "But, I realize that between tensions about the world in general these days, people's frustrations with their own lives, frustrations with each other living in a huge tense city, and so on, that that dream won't be realized every moment of every game."

Yeah, I paused for a moment today and realized I've been a bit of a tool around here the last couple of days, and a lot of it is because I'm venting frustration from my real life (or, as they call it on the Internets, my first life). And nobody here deserves that. So, my apologies. And shut up. What are you lookin' at?

2008-07-09 13:16:27
196.   Ken Noe
Rosenthal has become obsessed with the Dodgers. Increasingly he seems personally insulted that the team won't make the trades he wants, or any trade for that matter. It's really odd.
2008-07-09 13:16:39
197.   jujibee
If anyone is interested in the Rosenthal article:

It's quite a read.

2008-07-09 13:17:12
198.   regfairfield
193 So how come it usually takes Kemp, Kershaw, and LaRoche to get David Wells, but now we could have had the Indians' franchise for a sack of magic beans?
2008-07-09 13:22:23
199.   underdog
198 - Santana and LaRoche are magic beans?

I'll keep the cow, thanks. We don't even need a pitcher anyway. If the Dodgers are to make another move it should be for a hitter who will genuinely help the team more than anyone currently on the roster. Otherwise, the Rosenthals and Olneys of the world will have to find someone else to get their trade fix from.

2008-07-09 13:26:37
200.   Terry A
The Dodgers are on the clock.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-07-09 13:28:42
201.   cargill06
just out of curiousity how will santana become an asset to the club other than a trading chip or position change?

and how long will it take for a 22 year hold with a 1.022 OPS in A ball to be moved until Jax, shouldn't that move have been made alreay?

2008-07-09 13:28:56
202.   Xeifrank
vr, Xei
2008-07-09 13:28:58
203.   Jon Weisman
197 - Here's the crux, which shows his agenda:

"When will the Dodgers finally leverage their supposed excess of young talent into a trade that translates to major-league success?"

2008-07-09 13:29:27
204.   Kuo-fax
162. Great comments. Long time reader, few postings... I wonder if what is going on here isn't as much underlying racism, in terms of the booing of Kemp, but more of an overall issue of anti-youth culture going on with the Dodgers.

I can see a situation where the younger players, like Kemp, are embodying hip hop culture/youth culture, which gets demonized as "lazy" and "disrespectful" by the club (and media) elders who don't understand the age divide. There would seem to be some inherent racism in that whole view of youth, no? My two cents...
2008-07-09 13:30:29
205.   regfairfield
199 There was some hyperbole going on there.
2008-07-09 13:30:37
206.   Xeifrank
201. Trading chip or position change (perhaps by Martin). Both are big assets, right? vr, Xei
2008-07-09 13:31:37
207.   cargill06
and how long will it take for a 22 year hold with a 1.022 OPS in A ball to be moved until Jax,

should read, "up to Jax"

2008-07-09 13:32:33
208.   Jon Weisman
Drive for show, park for dough:

LOS ANGELES – The Los Angeles Dodgers and 76 have partnered to offer fans a "Free Ride" to Dodger Stadium. Fans will receive a $10 gas certificate with the purchase of each ticket to the July 27 game against the Washington Nationals at 1:10 p.m. The "Free Ride" promotion begins now through July 26 and is valid for all Field, Loge, and Reserve level seats.

"We're pleased to offer fans $10 of free 76 gas to make their ride to Dodger Stadium a free one," said Dodger Vice President of Consumer Development Frann Vettor-Gray. "We hope this will provide more families the opportunity to enjoy Dodger baseball".

2008-07-09 13:32:37
209.   cargill06
206 right, i was just curious what how he would help the dodgers.
2008-07-09 13:32:48
210.   Neal Pollack
Rosenthal is crazy. For what, exactly, are the Dodgers on the clock? Did they NEED Sabathia? If we don't make the playoffs this year, we can clear out most of the Augean stable of bad contracts, McCourt can fire Colletti, and then we can all find something ELSE to complain about next year.
2008-07-09 13:34:41
211.   Ken Noe
Reading DT and other sites, I frankly was a little worried about what I would find at DS this year. Gangs! Fights! Now racism? For the record, maybe I was lucky but I found less potential trouble and a happier crowd than I usually encounter in Atlanta or in SEC football. I've heard racist things from visiting fans in Jordan-Hare that made my skin crawl. The worst I heard in DS was the boring "Angels Suck."
2008-07-09 13:34:56
212.   Tom Meagher
My initial comments on Kemp/racism were about how he's evidently been treated by the media and some or all of the Dodgers' front office, and as I said before, I don't pretend to know anything about why people at the stadium boo. But I just don't get a comment like 172 , which simply states that the author believes people point to racism much too quickly. I think it is perhaps true that people are too quick to try to fit an incident into certain paradigms of What Constitutes Racism, but that is a very different phenomenon that has to do with how Eurocentric discourse/experience has shaped our categories of thought. Sorry, but to me, it is quite clearly problematic that so many feel they are entitled to an opinion on the scope and impact of racism at the same time that they do not treat this entitlement as requiring intensive study and analysis.

I don't see how 172 is any different than 175 and its progeny. Both offer speculation about the scope of "racism" that apparently are not very hesitant. The difference is that the moves in 175 have been ruled out of acceptable discourse for many more people than the moves in 172 have.

I guess I have stayed fascinated with baseball because their is so much objective evidence that it does not require much work and much framework analysis to be able to make simple analyses, and yet baseball is so full of ethnoscientific approaches that these simple correctives are frequently called for. Baseball isn't of much import and in the end I wish I could limit my compulsion to follow it and argue about it much more. Discussions of racism, on the other hand, carry infinitely more signifance but frequently even less of an attempt to research and vet the significance of knowledge and the frameworks for deriving knowledge. However, this is to be expected because the functioning of racism operates in the fundamental constitution of our subjectivities and knowledge of the world.

And when I say racism, I'm just trying to adapt the terminology to the discussion itself. The term itself is of limited utility since the definitions of racism that have the most sway are crafted by its benefactors to rationalize it and minimize its apparent significance. The phenomenon to which I am ultimately referring is the creation of a world-system of colonialism and subsequent coloniality beginning with 1455 (Romanus Pontifex) and 1492 (the year of both Columbus and the Alhambra Decree).

2008-07-09 13:36:07
213.   Ken Noe
210 Late at night Rosenthal dresses up like Colletti and trades Matt Kemp, over and over.
2008-07-09 13:36:56
214.   cargill06
210 and if we really want CC wouldn't it make more sense to sign him at the end of the year instead of trading away players than signing him?
2008-07-09 13:36:57
215.   Xeifrank
209. Others have talked about the possibility of moving Martin to either 3B or 2B down the road if Santana pans out. Others are more experts on how well Martin would do defensively at those positions, but obviously it would be a huge boost if Martin could play a decent 2B, given he was replaced at C by someone who had some actual talent. vr, Xei
2008-07-09 13:38:38
216.   Neal Pollack
212--That is EXACTLY what I meant.
2008-07-09 13:39:29
217.   Tom Meagher
204 Yes. I mean, we know that in the US in general young black males are extremely demonized. Why would we expect baseball to be free of influence from this?
2008-07-09 13:40:56
218.   Xeifrank
208. That's great! The $10 would get me to the stadium or pay for part of the parking. Every little bit helps. It's a nice promotion.

211. The worst I heard at the last Dodger game I went to, were about 2 or 3 inning of very loud F-bombs from a drunk group of tattoed (gang bang looking) guys sitting right next to me. They showed up in the bottom of the 5th inning. We moved seats (up a few rows) in the top of the 6th.

vr, Xei

2008-07-09 13:41:33
219.   underdog
205 Ah! Got it.

204 Great handle. And welcome!


Rosenthal has driven me bonkers for several years running so I no longer read him but wish everyone else was protected from his... stuff, too. Really, when you think about it, he makes his living off trade rumors. When a team isn't trading, that's less for him to talk about and analyze. So he gets frustrated. And thinks they need to do some real honest to goodness trading so he'll have more to comment about. It's kind of pathetic, actually.

2008-07-09 13:42:24
220.   regfairfield
Booing Kemp after the golden non denominational hat - probably not racial.

The idea behind "ballplayer" Blake DeWitt and "uncoachable" Matt Kemp - race probably has a bit to do with that, and when a major newspaper supports this perception, it spreads among the fans.

2008-07-09 13:43:45
221.   LoneStar7
reading 213 directly after 212 made me laugh out loud.
2008-07-09 13:47:27
223.   CodyS
Whether it's racism or just "kids these days," fans are not enamored of how Matt Kemp presents himself. And his merely adequate production to date isn't overcoming that. He could hire an image consultant if he cared.
I doubt the reality of Matt Kemp is that he is a jerk or stupid. He seems perfectly nice and smart when he talks. He just has to push the reality out there, maybe extra hard. It is, after all, his job. He will make many millions more in his life if he becomes good at it.

I heard a story about how when Chipper Jones was a rookie, he tied Terry Pendleton's shoes because TP's back hurt so much. That's the sort of rookie fans want to hear about.

2008-07-09 13:48:07
224.   Xeifrank
>> Sorry, but to me, it is quite clearly problematic that so many feel they are entitled to an opinion on the scope and impact of racism at the same time that they do not treat this entitlement as requiring intensive study and analysis.

I'm not a big fan of "racism chat", atleast not on DT. I agree that it's a good thing for everyone to educate themselves on this and other important topics, but I think at the same time we have to steer away from the "elitist" attitude of only those who have done "intensive study" and "analysis" should be the only people expressing viewpoints. It's not practical and doesn't seem too democratic.
vr, Xei

2008-07-09 13:50:48
225.   JoeyP
The idea behind "ballplayer" Blake DeWitt and "uncoachable" Matt Kemp - race probably has a bit to do with that, and when a major newspaper supports this perception, it spreads among the fans.

I somewhat agree with this, but it also has to do with not skin tone but the size/athletic ability of each player.

You're not going to find many "coachable, great attitude, ball player" type articles about Adam Dunn. Or Miguel Cabrera. Or Manny. You will get them about Blake Dewitt or David Eckstein. Even Juan Pierre (and he's as black as they come).

Dewitt is scrappy in the traditional baseball sense.
Juan Pierre is scrappy.
Kemp isnt.

Baseball fans arent 'racist' against black players.

They are prejudiced against big athletic types, and will always pull for the little guy over the athletic dude with talent.

Much of the pre-moneyball attitudes of casuals fans have not changed, and likely will not given the pure stupidity in the media.

2008-07-09 13:51:20
226.   Xeifrank
Looks like the Patriots are going to cover the point spread against the Vikings today. :)
vr, Xei
2008-07-09 13:51:21
227.   ToyCannon
If Furcal was healthy I would have made the trade as outlined. Santana is exactly that, a trading chip, as is Mcdonald. As I said before LaRoche and LaPorta are comparable.

I for one do believe we need pitching. Maybe no none noticed but Eric Stults and Chan Ho Park are in our rotation. How do you think that is going to play out in August?

If the offer was true and we did not accept it, it means that the Dodgers value LaRoche more then they let on.

2008-07-09 13:52:13
228.   Jon Weisman
Okay, I've enjoyed Tom's comments, but I think things are now going out of bounds. We need to find a new topic.
2008-07-09 13:53:04
229.   regfairfield
223 Oh that loveable scamp Chipper, such a nice boy. Not like that Matt Kemp, he might stab me and my children. He listens to that rap music you know.
2008-07-09 13:55:13
230.   Xeifrank
>> Maybe no none noticed but Eric Stults and Chan Ho Park are in our rotation. How do you think that is going to play out in August?

I'm not too worried at the moment. Both are doing well, and even if the clock strikes midnight on one or both... we still have Guo, Kershaw, McDonald, Penny and Schmidt as possible alternatives. vr, Xei

2008-07-09 13:56:31
231.   sporky
Racism Thoughts with only 5 comments deleted? Amazing.
2008-07-09 13:59:03
232.   Marty
231 And they had nothing to do with the racism conversation!
2008-07-09 13:59:13
233.   Tom Meagher
220 Yeah. As to whether it is "a bit" or more, that obviously depends on a lot of factors, so I don't see any utility in trying to parse it out. I think it is fair to say that racism per se plays some small role (the "bit") but is also compounded by a number of more seemingly benign phenomena that, at their core, stem from the hegemony of Eurocentric thinking. For instance, if we know that the people with the power to develop discourses on baseball have overwhelmingly been white males raised in the US, then wouldn't we presume the body of knowledge they have generated to bear some relation to an episteme that invents and favors whiteness, especially when the evidence is strong that the baseball paradigms they've fomented have not been particularly scientific? What constitutes a subjectively valuable baseball player has been influenced by a body of knowledge that privileges whiteness in a myriad of comprehensive fashions. Further, what constitutes a "projectable" player or a player with a good makeup is influenced by the same body of knowledge. To acknowledge this influence is not to try to measure its impact (to claim that Kemp would get 60% of the boos he gets now, or whatever), since the point isn't to emancipate Matt Kemp per se but rather to eliminate the system of knowledge/being that is impacting him.

Anyway, I wish people who put so much mental energy into baseball would put more effort into understanding racism at a deeper level and in a much broader context; tragically, this absolutely includes wishing I did the same. But hey, I'm only a year older than Kemp, so hopefully like him I have room for further growth.

2008-07-09 14:05:04
234.   Terry A
Dear Mr. Buster Plaschkenthal,

HA! We already traded Dioner Navarro (All-Star catcher) for Mark Hendrickson. So there. Who looks foolish now, buddy?

2008-07-09 14:06:15
235.   KG16
208 - with gas at $4.65 a gallon, and driving a full size truck, $10 bucks of gas is just about what it would cost to get me to the stadium. So, if I take someone with me, I'll use their coupon to get home and it's a free trip.
2008-07-09 14:07:01
236.   sporky
232 All the more impressive!

I smell a NPUT on the horizon.

2008-07-09 14:07:42
237.   ToyCannon
Interesting how those names do nothing to assuage my worries but put you at ease.
2008-07-09 14:07:44
238.   sporky

I really need lunch.

2008-07-09 14:09:54
239.   sporky
People are already lining up for the new iPhone. How can they afford to buy a new phone if they're spending all their time camping out to buy one?
2008-07-09 14:10:44
240.   KG16
234 - in some respects, I understand where the trade-the-kids-and-win-now crowd is coming from. LA's a big market, the Dodgers are a storied franchise, they aren't suppose to "rebuild", they are suppose to reload.

When A-Rod and Jeter and Posada and Rivera retire or otherwise move on, they'll be complaining about the Yankees bringing up so many kids and not going out and getting the best players. Well, assuming the Yankees don't go out and buy the best players available anyway.

In their world view, young teams that are built from within are for those small market teams from those square states in the middle.

I think the Dodgers have the right balance between young and old, internal and external, but they've made some poor decisions on both sides of the equation.

2008-07-09 14:13:15
241.   LoneStar7
For some reason i think Colletti will swing a kupchak-esque trade that makes us quickly forget his past blunders.

but maybe I'm just being overly positive in light of the recent winning.

2008-07-09 14:13:42
242.   thinkblue88
Matt Kemp is from Midwest City,Oklahoma. Just to clear things up for those that have never been to Midwest City, Oklahoma....It's a city!! For those that think MWC is country,ie:cows,barns,corn fields, MWC is as far away from country as you can get.
2008-07-09 14:17:20
243.   RELX
223 .

"I heard a story about how when Chipper Jones was a rookie, he tied Terry Pendleton's shoes because TP's back hurt so much. That's the sort of rookie fans want to hear about."

But, Matt Kemp moved Jeff Kent's trashcan last year!!

2008-07-09 14:17:51
244.   Jon Weisman
The Variety review of Generation Kill:

"If "John Adams" was something of an expensive misfire, HBO nails the target with "Generation Kill" -- a raw, gritty, so-real-you'll-forget-it's-drama miniseries from "The Wire's" David Simon and Ed Burns. "

2008-07-09 14:18:19
245.   Xeifrank
247. I'm open for improvement, but am a realist that all of your starters can't be of the Chad Billingsley talent. I'm fine with Guo or Kershaw as my #5 or even #4 starter. Especially knowing we have Stults, Penny, Schmidt, McDonald and the new and improved CHP all possibly in the pipeline (?marks for Penny and Schmidt due to health).
vr, Xei
2008-07-09 14:18:55
246.   Tom Meagher
228 Fair enough, I will bow out (I posted 233 before I saw your comment) after this last one, but I'd really like to say something about 224 .

I don't support the notion that only "informed" people should contribute to the discussion. However, I would be careful about throwing around words like "democratic" and "elitist". A racist state in the US has been supported by democracy (whether you believe it stopped being racist at some point in the past or not), and so we must distinguish whether democracy constitutes a teleological goal to which human societies must aspire or whether it is an empirical description of forms of human governance. If the latter, then being undemocratic is not per se of negative significance. If the former, then the functioning of democracy actively requires the alteration of people's viewpoints, and suggesting that these viewpoints stem from a lack of study on a very complex phenomenon seems a useful way to foment such alteration and not a claim that viewpoints should be discarded wholesale. Any study of racism absolutely requires a critique of the elitism of knowledge production, and it is ironic to me that my implicit suggestion that such an anti-elitist critique is necessary to a meaningful examination is itself possibly accused of elitism.

I apologize for taking DT off track, but this is similar to the physicist in the crowd getting riled up when there is a discussion about corked bats. The physicist's point isn't that other commenters are wrong because they know nothing about formal physics, it is that their claims are lacking in rigor or in their analytic framework and that rigorous studies have shown evidence to the contrary. I honestly do not think I can go around telling people they are simply wrong, and I wouldn't aspire to anything more than encouraging people to investigate their knowledge on the subject further.

2008-07-09 14:18:57
247.   fanerman
243 They should teach tying vets' shoes at the pre-season rookie camp thing.
2008-07-09 14:19:53
248.   ToyCannon
That number was reserved for me, didn't you notice 245
2008-07-09 14:21:42
249.   Marty
When I first read that, I thought it said Jones tied the shoelaces together as a prank.
2008-07-09 14:23:34
250.   sporky
I feel vocabularily inferior.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-07-09 14:24:05
251.   ToyCannon
Me to, but then I figured it was just a white guy showing a black guy how to tie his shoes so his back wouldn't hurt. The kind of things you don't learn unless John Wooden is your coach.
2008-07-09 14:24:19
252.   Kevin Lewis

I asked that question yesterday. Either they use their vacation time or work in a setting where they can let the current job go and just find another one the next day (waiting tables maybe)...or they work for a small online tech review company and they are on assignment.


I understand wanting to not touch on this topic, but I think this is exactly why we should talk about it. I know I have plenty of knee jerk reactions that are based on stereotypes, racism, and things ingrained from our culture. I just think that as a country we have not come as far as we like to think when it comes to racism.

2008-07-09 14:24:59
253.   dkminnick
228 - For the record, I have not enjoyed them.
2008-07-09 14:25:22
254.   Dodgers49
7 Completely O/T security alert: If you're a Windows XP user who got updates today and hasn't installed them yet, read my experience first.

Unfortunately, I installed that update last night before signing off only to discover when I returned to the computer this morning I was unable to get on the Internet. I ended up doing a System Restore.

2008-07-09 14:26:04
255.   fanerman
251 I figured it was just a rookie tying a vets' shoes for him so the vet wouldn't have to bend down to tie his shoes.
2008-07-09 14:26:16
256.   Xeifrank
246. I agree with 99% of the stuff you say. I just don't agree that only the "informed", "educated", those who have done "intensive study" should hold more weight in their opinion. It reminds me of when I was travelling in China and talking with my nephew (by marriage) there. We were talking about our forms of govt, democracy and the right to vote. He said he liked the idea of voting, but that his vote should count more than many others because he was more educated. I know it's not apples to apples with what you said, but it quickly reminded me of it. :)
vr, Xei
2008-07-09 14:28:00
257.   sporky
236 I was right!
2008-07-09 14:28:57
258.   Kevin Lewis

Yikes. That would be awkward and tough to know how to properly continue the conversation.

2008-07-09 14:29:13
259.   Jon Weisman
2008-07-09 14:29:45
260.   Terry A
259 - Oh, sure. Just when it's getting good.
2008-07-09 14:30:50
261.   fanerman
Without continuing the conversation, I'd just like to say thanks Tom for your thoughts. It certainly is something worth examining further.

And at the very least, i hopefully expanded my vocabulary.

2008-07-09 14:34:28
262.   Jon Weisman
253 - Noted - thanks for letting me know.
2008-07-09 14:44:04
263.   natepurcell
Anyone want to see videos of Carlos Santana?
2008-07-09 14:44:48
264.   El Lay Dave
Tom Meagher - "But hey, I'm only a year older than Kemp, so hopefully like him I have room for further growth."

I would never have guessed. And I mean that as a compliment.

2008-07-09 15:01:50
265.   Tom Meagher
246 Yeah, I'm not making any claim about whose opinions get more weight; I'm saying that if you feel that you are entitled to an opinion on an issue, that entitlement comes with some responsibility to develop that opinion through research. My original phrasing was that it is problematic to have the sense of entitlement without a matching sense that that entitlement demands further study, which is not to say that it is wrong to respect and listen to opinions that do not stem from intensive research.
2008-07-09 15:19:03
266.   Gen3Blue
203 What a horrible glimpse of a non Dodger fan. The guy is maybe a fan of only winning--or needs an old vet to feel safe?
2008-07-09 15:49:15
267.   Fallout
162 Tom Meagher
The evidence that race permeates perception among people raised in the US is pretty thorough and compelling...
Personally I resent your comments. I do not take to heart a fallible study that is based on opinions and bias. responsibility as a white person... ??? Who made you feel guilty?

racism does not occur through people deciding to believe in hatred but rather reacting to a system of dynamics that goes back to 1455 from which none of us are exempt.

Man, are you serious? Your philosophy professors must love you.

The study of physics or chemistry is based on empirical facts. Believe it or not, your study is just an opinion apparently based on your need as a white person to straighten things out. (But I was being righteous) Oh, isn't that unique.

at best extraordinarily naive to argue that racism does not function as at least a tiebreaker.
Oh, please, take it somewhere else. Maybe back to you college friends where you can find mutual admiration questioning the moral character of US society.

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