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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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In(law)vasion 2008
2008-07-12 06:02
by Jon Weisman

Big family week coming up, so posting could be light ...

Comments (256)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-07-12 07:37:26
1.   Bumsrap
The article in the Times this morning should more than get things started here. The Dodgers way to play baseball.
2008-07-12 07:44:04
2.   CanuckDodger
The Dodger's young pitchers under Campanis weren't allowed to throw sliders, according to the Times article? Did not know that. And it is odd that Lasorda would bring that up while discussing the decline of the organization, as if Dodger pitching prospects throwing sliders somehow caused things to go wrong for the Dodgers.
2008-07-12 07:48:09
3.   Bob Timmermann
Tom Niedenfuer was the first Dodgers rookie pitcher I can remember that threw a slider. And he was allowed to throw it because he had learned it in college.

The prohibition against sliders was mentioned a lot.

And Tommy Lasorda hates Fred Claire. That vendetta is never going to end.

2008-07-12 08:28:53
4.   Ken Noe
The Dodger decline didn't start with Fox, it just snowballed. It started with Fred Claire, the first Dodger GM who never met an over-the-hill PVL he didn't like. Darryl Strawberry did not play the Dodger Way.
2008-07-12 08:50:50
5.   CanuckDodger
3 -- Didn't Bob Welch and Dave Stewart throw sliders? I could be wrong; my memory is pretty foggy on the matter.
2008-07-12 08:55:48
6.   CanuckDodger
The Dodger Way? The game has changed a lot since that book was written. Any "Way" that apotheosizes speed in the modern game over pure hitting, on-base percentage and power is nothing but a Way to Loserville.
2008-07-12 09:04:30
7.   Bob Timmermann
Welch and Stewart may have developed sliders later, but they didn't come up throwung them.

Scully and the national broadcasters, especially Tony Kubek, talked about the lack of sliders a lot.

2008-07-12 09:18:00
8.   D4P
If you get tired of typing "Ned" or "Colletti" or "Ned Colletti", you can just type "Ned 'Apotheosizes speed and athleticism over pure hitting, on-base percentage and power' Colletti" instead.
2008-07-12 09:20:06
9.   Eric Stephen
I'm not sure how I feel about this whole "Dodger Way" thing.

On one hand, there are many reasons the Dodgers have not been successful in recent times. But there are many ways to win, and with winning the whining will subside.

On the other hand, I would like to see some continuity in the organization. Changing managers and GMs every few years tends to eat into that.

2008-07-12 09:23:47
10.   D4P
But there are many ways to win

Does this mean:

1. There are many approaches to the game that can result in winning, with some yielding a greater chance of winning than others

2. There are many approaches to the game that can result in winning, with each yielding the same chance of winning.

2008-07-12 09:25:21
11.   Eric Stephen
More #1 than #2, but I was thinking more that the Dodgers lack of success isn't necessarily because no current employee has a copy of Campanis's book.
2008-07-12 09:41:07
12.   Johnny Nucleo
4 He struck gold by signing Kirk Gibson as a free agent in 1988, won Executive Of The Year, and it was all downhill from there.
2008-07-12 09:48:45
13.   Bob Timmermann
The book in question doesn't really preach any particular philosophy. It's just a guide on how to do certain drills.

It does have an old school philosophy of lineup construction, but it was written in the 1950s.

It's not a book about player acquisition or development. But it does have ways on how to properly organize your spring training camp if you have 500 guys show up.

2008-07-12 09:50:52
14.   Eric Stephen
Hopefully it has some diagrams on how to set up those strike zone strings. I always loved that.
2008-07-12 10:10:16
15.   Eric Stephen
Don't know if this was discussed last week, but it looks like Dodgers' 6th rounder Tony Delmonico will head back to FSU next season.

From last Friday:

"Martin is also optimistic that Tony Delmonico, selected in the sixth round by the Los Angeles Dodgers, would return for his senior season. He would move from shortstop to catcher if that happens."

2008-07-12 10:12:28
16.   Bob Timmermann
I believe the book has a section about the strike zone strings. It also tells you how to make a sliding pit.
2008-07-12 10:36:32
17.   regfairfield
While the speed and don't throw sliders part is overrated, making this team a pitching and defense team isn't a bad idea. We can't turn this in to slugging team without ripping everything apart, but if we just focus on getting a good defensive second baseman, we can have a defense where the worst players are Kemp and LaRoche. Then we can throw McDonald's and Kershaw's out there with more confidence.

The offense comes from hoping our guys break out, but if they don't, then we still have pitching and defense to support us.

2008-07-12 10:38:09
18.   Bumsrap
Nothing wrong about great pitching, great defense, and good speed other than eliminating Kent and Nomar from playing middle infield defense.
2008-07-12 10:40:05
19.   Suffering Bruin
At what point were Tommy Lasorda's Dodgers about defense? Pitching, yes. Speed? At times. But defense? Please.

Look, I'm getting older, I'm not a big research guy but baseball memories are long-lasting for me. I remember the Dodger defenses in Tommy Lasorda's years as manager. They were not good.

2008-07-12 10:44:57
20.   Bumsrap
My memory is more like: Cey, Russell, Lopes, and Garvey were good, maybe close to being very good defenders--just not great defenders. Baker and Smith likewise.
2008-07-12 10:46:03
21.   D4P
Check out the photo of Rich Harden on the front page of, and how far his back foot is off the rubber before he has released the ball.
2008-07-12 10:46:18
22.   Suffering Bruin
Newhan's article to me is not unlike Plaschke's columns about the team, only better written. He thinks the Dodgers are having problems because they have "lost their way" when in fact the Dodgers as presently constituted are having the devil's own time identifying their own best players that give them the best chance of winning a baseball game. I'm still waiting for that column.
2008-07-12 10:49:48
23.   Bluebleeder87
19 Alfredo Griffin was pretty good from what I remember...
2008-07-12 10:50:05
24.   Suffering Bruin
20 Russell was criticized for his defense just constantly--a lot of errors. Garvey was great with the glove though his arm was pathetic, Cey was pretty good, Lopes was on the average side. Baker and Smith were both fine outfielders.

The Dodgers had some years where they were average defensively and some years where you could tell they just decided to live with the bad defense and make the best of it. My point is, they were never known for a philosophy of defense first. Or second, or third for that matter.

A big reason for the Dodger's success in the 70's and 80's was pitching. Lots and lots of great pitching.

2008-07-12 10:51:43
25.   Bumsrap
If I were Frank McCourt I would still be laughing at the person that told me they were going to bring back Jones before the All Star Game.
2008-07-12 10:52:17
26.   68elcamino427
Jon Weisman gets indirect recognition in the lower right hand corner on page 2 of today's LA Times.
We are directed to Blue Notes where Jon's ideas are the center of attention.
Very nice.
2008-07-12 10:52:42
27.   Suffering Bruin
Really, it was Lasorda's Dodgers who had the notorious defenses. The Dodgers of the 60's could really catch and throw.
2008-07-12 10:55:49
28.   Bumsrap
24 - So while the Cey, Russell, Lopes, and Garvey may not have met the definition of great defense as stated in The Dodger Way to Play Baseball, they did meet the definition of low turnover.
2008-07-12 10:56:42
29.   RELX
20 . My memory is completely different: Russell was a terrible SS, Lopes was a terrible 2B, Cey was so-so at third, and Garvey was a good defensive 1B, especially adept at scooping balls out of the dirt, which came in handy because nobody on the infield had a good arm, including Garvey.

I double checked, and the numbers back what I am saying. Lopes made 11, 24, 15, 18, 14, 20, 14 and 15 errors in his eight full seasons as the Dodger 2B, while Russell made 34, 31, 39, 11, 28, 29, 31, 30, 19, 14, 29 and 22 errors in his seasons as the Dodgers regular SS. I would have no problem saying Lopes and Russell were a terrible defensive middle infield.

2008-07-12 11:00:22
30.   Bob Hendley
29 - They were both converted outfielders, IIRC.
2008-07-12 11:00:46
31.   Bumsrap
29 - Russell had a great arm and I will concede about that infield being only good and very good.
2008-07-12 11:01:18
32.   Suffering Bruin
From the Times this morning: "Penny, who has struggled, going 5-9 with a 5.88 earned-run average, feels he should have backed off sooner when the irritation in his shoulder persisted."

Fill in the blank: when Jon read this, he ___________________________.

2008-07-12 11:01:39
33.   Bumsrap
29 - Russell had a great arm and I will concede about that infield being only good and not very good.
2008-07-12 11:02:28
34.   Suffering Bruin
30 You are correct, sir! More specifically, both Lopes and Russell were converted CF's.
2008-07-12 11:03:00
35.   Bob Hendley
And Garvey was a converted scatttered-armed 3rd baseman, so yes these guys were not in there for their defensive skills. My memories of Cey, however, was that he was quite good defensively.
2008-07-12 11:03:03
36.   Bumsrap
32 - agreed with most of the rest of us.
2008-07-12 11:03:53
37.   RELX
Looking at the stats, Russell really was a pretty mediocre hitter as well, very much in JP territory. His OBP in 1977 was .301, in 1978 it was .320, in 1979 it was .297, in 1980 it was .295. He did perk up in 1982 to .357, but his career OBP is .310. Despite my memories of him as a solid #2 hitter, he really wasn't good at much of anything.
2008-07-12 11:04:13
38.   Bumsrap
Yeager was very good also
2008-07-12 11:04:20
39.   Eric Stephen
Has Dodger draftee and Nick Saban snubber Melvin Ray been assigned to a minor league club yet?
2008-07-12 11:04:28
40.   RELX
29 . Which is what they always looked like in the field.
2008-07-12 11:05:53
41.   Eric Stephen
I need to look this up, but I thought I saw some advanced defensive metric (Tom Tango's blog, maybe?) that had Bill Russell as one of the best defensive SS ever. His range apparently was outstanding, which overshadowed the errors.
2008-07-12 11:05:54
42.   Bumsrap
37 - I remember him hitting 7th or 8th more than second but he could hit leadoff this year with those stats.
2008-07-12 11:06:00
43.   CodyS
I had that book when I was in little league. Should send a copy to Matt Kemp! :-)
2008-07-12 11:09:26
44.   jasonungar07
Gosh you know I am 37. So what I recall most about those 77-78 Dodgers is Craig fraking Nettles flying thru the air crushing my childhood hopes and dreams. Who knew it was so good then.
2008-07-12 11:09:30
45.   RELX
It is fun to go back and look at the stats of players you watched and liked as a kid and then realize that, if they were playing for the Dodgers today, you'd be asking what the hell the manager was doing starting them.
2008-07-12 11:10:03
46.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think the 1960s era Dodgers infield was necessarily all that great with the leather aside from Wes Parker at first.

People thought Wills was great, but I've never been able to get a handle on his defense. Second and third base were revolving doors with Gilliam, Lefebvre, Tracewski, and Kennedy taking turns there.

Alston tried to make Tommy Davis a third baseman. He was horrible. Later the Dodgers tried to make Bill Sudakis a third baseman. He was horrible.

At least Willie Davis could cover a lot of ground in center. Except for that time in Game 2 of the 1966 World Series ....

But who needs defense when you have Sandy Koufax striking out 350 guys a year?

2008-07-12 11:11:05
47.   Bob Hendley
43 - Cuz if he won't listen, maybe he'll read? Wonder if he thought of the glasses last night himself?
2008-07-12 11:11:43
48.   RELX
42 . I remember--and I could be totally wrong--that Russell hit #2 alot in the mid to late 1970s, and then was moved down to #8 regularly when they acquired Ken Landreaux to play CF in 1981.
2008-07-12 11:12:11
49.   bisonjones
Growing up watching the 70's Dodgers, I can say with great confidence that Bill Russell was a mediocre player. On occasion he would chop a double down the line, but that was it. No runs produced; possessed that winning combination of no power and no speed; mediocre fielder who could be counted on, regularly, for the big error on a routine grounder. He was coat-tailing in that infield and gets a good rep based on longevity.
2008-07-12 11:13:50
50.   RELX
46 . The "by the book" Dodgers did have this odd habit of taking outfielders and trying to turn them into infielders, when usually, it is the other way around. If the team were following "the book" these days, I imagine Kemp would have been moved to SS when Furcal went down.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-07-12 11:14:21
51.   Bob Hendley
"But who needs defense when you have Sandy Koufax striking out 350 guys a year?"

I think being able to stay awake was probably the major talent of those infielders.

2008-07-12 11:16:35
52.   Bob Timmermann
In over 2000 games played in the majors, Bill Russell batted 2nd 704 times and batted 8th 706 times.
2008-07-12 11:17:28
53.   RELX
49 . Growing up in NY, I only had the chance to see the Dodgers in person when they played the Mets. I am not exaggerating when I say that Russell made an error at every game I attended. As a matter of fact, he was known as such a bad fielder that the Met fans would yell every time a grounder was hit to him, knowing that, eventually, he would boot one.
2008-07-12 11:18:30
54.   Bob Timmermann
That was a holdover from the Rickey era. Rickey used to believe that he could identify a players true position from observation. I believe he referred to it as "coconut picking."

Rickey's philosophy was taken on by Bavasi and, in turn, Campanis.

2008-07-12 11:20:28
55.   RELX
When you think about it, it seems that the Dodgers won all those years despite "the book," not because of it.
2008-07-12 11:22:00
56.   regfairfield
Baseball Prospectus is being astoundingly slow right now so I can't be more rigorous than this, but the '74 Dodgers lead the league in defensive efficiency.
2008-07-12 11:24:13
57.   bisonjones
RELX, do you remember the Dodgers/Mets game (at Shea) in the late 70's when Garvey tied it at 2-2 with a clutch homer in the ninth, and then Mike Jorgensen won it for the Mets in the bottom of the 10th with a pinch-hit, walk-off grand slam? I was at that game with my dad and we were both in a bad mood for a week.
2008-07-12 11:26:09
58.   Bob Hendley
At least Willie Davis could cover a lot of ground in center. Except for that time in Game 2 of the 1966 World Series ....

The ground he covered, the ball, not.

2008-07-12 11:28:50
59.   Marty
I remember Cey as being good with what he could get to, but he had zero range. We used to laugh at Cey's idea of diving for a ball. It was more like tipping over sideways.
2008-07-12 11:29:07
60.   regfairfield
They also lead in '75 and were second in '76. These were good defensive teams.
2008-07-12 11:29:18
61.   Eric Stephen
Bill Russell Errors in NY
5/11/72 - 2 errors
8/23/73 - 1 error
8/9/75 - 2 errors
8/27/76 - 1 error
8/28/76 - 2 errors
6/5/78 - 1 error
6/6/78 - 1 error
6/7/78 - 1 error
8/19/78 - 1 error
7/10/79 - 1 error
7/12/79 - 1 error
6/11/80 - 1 error
6/12/80 - 1 error
5/16/82 - 1 error
8/28/84 - 1 error

15 of his 77 games in NY with an error, 18 errors total.

2008-07-12 11:29:50
62.   Gagne55
With a the comments about moving outfielders to third base, no mention of Pedro Guererro?
2008-07-12 11:31:15
63.   Eric Stephen
June 11, 1980

2008-07-12 11:32:08
64.   RELX
57 . I remember it vividly--I was listening on the radio, as the game wasn't televised and I didn't go for some reason. It was June 11, 1980:

2008-07-12 11:32:15
65.   Louis in SF
I think the important part of today's article is the continuity issue and the fact there was a dedicated plan, and I believe a stronger faith in the farm system. While free agency has changed many things, I can't imagine Dodger management in even the 70's blocking young prospects like the Dodgers have done over the past two years.

On a personal note not to beat up on Ned, but living in SF I have asked a number of Giant fans over the past few days what did they like about Ned, and none of them could identify one special thing they liked or thought he excelled at.

2008-07-12 11:32:42
66.   Gagne55
53 Did you attend a three game series in June 1978?
2008-07-12 11:33:58
67.   RELX
61 . So he made an error in 20% of his games in NY. While my memory exaggerates--which I knew it would--it wasn't that far off.
2008-07-12 11:34:51
68.   Eric Stephen
But if you asked a number of Dodger fans, would they know enough about Kim Ng to have an opinion of her? She's essentially in the same position Ned was in with the Giants.
2008-07-12 11:34:52
69.   Suffering Bruin
60 I had no idea they were rated that high and I certainly wouldn't have thought those mid-70's teams were comparable to the best defensive teams in baseball. Thanks for that.
2008-07-12 11:35:36
70.   Eric Stephen
His error rate in NY was higher than his career rate. Was the infield bad at Shea, or not?
2008-07-12 11:38:31
71.   RELX
Plus, he did seem to make errors in nearly every game of certain series against the Mets--June 5, 6, 7, 1978, July 10 and 12, 1979, June 11 and 12, 1980. As a 10, 11 and 12-year old during those years, it did seem like he was making an error at every game I attended because he did make errors at MANY of the games I attended.
2008-07-12 11:38:37
72.   Gagne55
65 The Sabean/Colletti Giants were actually very good at picking up midseason aquisitions like Schmidt and Lofton that won them close races. Colletti was actually a very good GM for quite a while. Then he traded Joe Nathan and his career was all downhill from there.
2008-07-12 11:41:48
73.   RELX
{70}. I don't think the infield was any worse than any other in the NL, though it is hard to really know. On one hand, the Mets had error machines like Frank Taveras playing short during those years, but they also had Doug Flynn, who was gold glove caliber.
2008-07-12 11:43:29
74.   Bob Timmermann
The "Dodger Way to Play Baseball" was also predicated on the fact that there wouldn't be stuff getting in the way from the team keeping a player indefinitely.

Then the Dodgers traded for Andy Messersmith.

You can't apply the O'Malley-Bavasi-Campanis Dodgers system to today's game because it wouldn't work. You can't count on a team having a group of players together that long anymore.

2008-07-12 11:43:46
75.   68elcamino427
Wonder if Kemp was wearing the glasses because something was amiss with his contacts?
2008-07-12 11:46:46
76.   bisonjones
63 , 57
Thanks! Ah, yes.
I would not have been able to tell you that Sutcliffe (a year removed from his rookie-of-the-year year) gave up the GS.
2008-07-12 11:48:28
77.   Johnny Nucleo
Bill Russell's 1982 APBA card was pretty terrible, let me tell you. I always batted him 8th.
2008-07-12 11:52:36
78.   bisonjones

My dad and I would attend one or two games each year at Shea. As I am certain you remember, back then, Dodgers/Mets played 12 times (2 series in each other's park). Is there a special memory about the June '78 series? We probably went to one of those three games. Please refresh my memory.

2008-07-12 11:53:36
79.   Eric Stephen
Jacksonville has a double header today against the Mississippi Braves. Kershaw starts game two. The first 3,000 fans receive a Chin-Lung Hu bobblehead.
2008-07-12 11:54:44
80.   Eric Stephen
I think he was referring to the series in which Russell made an error in each game, referenced in 61 .
2008-07-12 11:58:48
81.   Jon Weisman
I just want to say that having seen now the second episode of Generation Kill, I'm into it.
2008-07-12 11:59:28
82.   bisonjones

Thanks - got it.

Checking out the boxscore from June 11, 1980, I see that Alex Trevino, who was the light-hitting, backup catcher for the Mets at the time, got an RBI.
Trivia question (sort of): do any of you, as I do, have an unfortunate memory of Trevino tied tp Fernando Valenzuela?

2008-07-12 12:01:05
83.   Alex41592
June 5th, 1978

Dodgers blow 8-2 lead and lose 9-8 on a throwing error by Bill Russell.

2008-07-12 12:01:40
84.   Eric Stephen
The Giants' 2007 50th round draft pick Mike Loree, a 21-year old in Class A, is on quite a roll:

June 25: retired final 2 batters he faced
June 30: 6 perfect innings (win)
July 5: Reitred first 20 batters, then allowed a HR, then finished the 7th with an out
July 10: 7 perfect innings (ND)

He has retired 62 of the last 63 batters he faced!

2008-07-12 12:03:26
85.   Eric Stephen
Correction: Loree's last start was last night (July 11). Here's the link to a story on him:

2008-07-12 12:05:07
86.   Gagne55
78 Oh, I just saw on the chart that Russell made an error every game that series. Looking up the games now...
The Mets won the first game 9-8 scoring three runs in the ninth off of Forster. The game ending play was the error by Russell. the second game was an 8-2 rout by the Dodgers in which Rau threw a CG. In the third game, the Mets won 3-2 with the winning run scored in the eighth, unearned due to Russell's error. Zachary threw a CG for the Mets.

I wasn't born until 10 years later, so I wouldn't remember these games.

2008-07-12 12:05:57
87.   Eric Stephen
Opposing NL West announcers will team up for today's Diamonbacks-Phillies game, as Matt Vasgersian & Mark Grace will call the game for Fox.
2008-07-12 12:08:31
88.   Alex41592
87 - Anybody know if Harry Kalas works games on the radio for the games not on local television, like today? Or does he take them off like Vinny?
2008-07-12 12:10:48
89.   Gagne55
87 Well, if the Dodgers can't get on FOX, the D'backs is the next best thing. I have a feeling I'll get Minnesota-Detroit though. :(
2008-07-12 12:12:42
90.   Alex41592
Arizona Diamondbacks at Philadelphia Phillies - Matt Vasgersian & Mark Grace (Fox, 3:55pm, 55%)

MARKETS INCLUDE: Albuquerque, Atlanta, Austin, Baltimore, Birmingham, Charlotte, Cincinnati, Columbus, Dayton, Greensboro, Greenville, Houston, Knoxville, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Louisville, Memphis, Milwaukee, Nashville, New Orleans, Norfolk, Oklahoma City, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Portland, Raleigh, Richmond, Sacramento, San Antonio, San Diego, San Francisco, St. Louis, Tulsa, Washington

Colorado Rockies at New York Mets- Kenny Albert, Tim McCarver & Ken Rosenthal (FOX, 3:55pm, 23%)

MARKETS INCLUDE: Boston, Buffalo, Denver, Fort Myers, Hartford, Jacksonville, Miami, New York, Orlando, Providence, Salt Lake City, Tampa

Minnesota Twins at Detroit Tigers- Dick Stockton & Eric Karros (FOX, 3:55pm, 21%)

MARKETS INCLUDE: Boston, Buffalo, Denver, Fort Myers, Hartford, Jacksonville, Miami, New York, Orlando, Providence, Salt Lake City, Tampa

2008-07-12 12:12:46
91.   Bob Timmermann
Minnesota-Detroit going out to:
Boston, Buffalo, Denver, Fort Myers, Hartford, Jacksonville, Miami, New York, Orlando, Providence, Salt Lake City, Tampa

Colorado-New York going to:
Boston, Buffalo, Denver, Fort Myers, Hartford, Jacksonville, Miami, New York, Orlando, Providence, Salt Lake City, Tampa

Everybody else gets Arizona-Philadelphia.

2008-07-12 12:13:13
92.   Bob Timmermann
A certain part of my anatomy feels very small now.
2008-07-12 12:14:05
93.   Alex41592
90 - Whomever sent this out needs to fix it.
2008-07-12 12:18:02
94.   Bob Timmermann
Ahh, we have equally faulty information.

That has improved my mood.

2008-07-12 12:34:59
95.   DXMachina
70 If I remember correctly, it was the Dodger Stadium infield (back when it was still that reddish color dirt) that was considered one of the worst infields in baseball.

I have a copy of "The Dodger Way" book. It's autographed by Campanis, Jackie Robinson, and a handful of other Dodgers who were on the team in '57.

2008-07-12 12:44:16
96.   RELX
95 . Wasn't the reddish color because the infield was made of crushed brick? Was that also part of the Dodger way?
2008-07-12 12:57:51
97.   Eric Stephen
No Harry Kalas thus far on the Phillies' radio broadcast today.
2008-07-12 13:01:07
98.   Eric Stephen
Baseball Prospectus had an event with DePo at Petco last night and I missed it. Darn. That's the price of being gone for most of two weeks I guess.
2008-07-12 13:09:24
99.   underdog
The Giants are making it tighter in Chicago in the 9th - now 7-4 Cubs, with 1 out and bases loaded. Marmol's been bad.
2008-07-12 13:13:53
100.   underdog
Sheesh. Marmol's been bad, and then he was momentarily injured, and it's now 7-5 with 2 outs, and Pinella's leaving him in!
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-07-12 13:15:01
101.   underdog
Oh man.

A sharp ground ball should've been the third out, but Theriot's throw went over the head of the other -ot, Fontenot, and the tying runs come in to score!

Sheesh. Pinella sucks.

2008-07-12 13:17:37
102.   overkill94
What's up with James Adkins? He got monumentally rocked yesterday and has been mediocre overall this year. Is it time to convert him to his inevitable LOOGYness?
2008-07-12 13:21:00
103.   JoeyP
Cubs were up 7-0 after 7.

Now its tied in the 9th.

2008-07-12 13:28:54
104.   underdog
Free baseball at Wrigley!

102 - I've kind of thought of Adkins as a reliever all along. Maybe the experiment is over now but they'll probably give it more time. Lefty starters obviously have more value...

2008-07-12 13:33:48
105.   underdog
Definitely read the newly posted interview with Logan White about Ethan Martin now up on Blue Notes:

Very interesting.

2008-07-12 13:43:08
106.   Bob Timmermann
So why were all these men posing together in this photo?

2008-07-12 13:47:27
107.   Gagne55
Victorino goes deep!
2008-07-12 13:50:24
108.   underdog
106 - Let's see, there's Drysdale, and... Now which one are you?
2008-07-12 13:53:19
109.   underdog
Is that Merlin Olsen, too?
2008-07-12 13:55:06
110.   Bob Timmermann
Yes, Merlin Olsen is in the photo.
2008-07-12 13:55:50
111.   Bob Hendley
Dinah Shore asked them to? Jeez, Drysdale's as big as Merlin.
2008-07-12 13:56:50
112.   Bob Hendley
Rosy, Roman..who else?
2008-07-12 13:57:24
113.   Travis08
Willie Davis is in the front left.
2008-07-12 13:59:17
114.   Bob Hendley
That's who that is. The other guy is real familiar..
2008-07-12 14:00:56
115.   Travis08
114 The sixth guy was playing for the Lakers at the time the photo was taken.
2008-07-12 14:03:56
116.   berkowit28
Cubs - In play run(s). Cubs 8-7.
2008-07-12 14:04:26
117.   berkowit28
116 Walk off in 11th. Final.
2008-07-12 14:04:26
118.   Bob Hendley
2008-07-12 14:04:53
119.   Travis08
Photo and caption here:

2008-07-12 14:08:01
120.   Alex41592
Adam Eaton should be DFA'd for being an awful major leaguer but also for giving up a two run double to The Unit. 5-2 AZ.
2008-07-12 14:10:18
121.   Travis08
119 If that TinyUrl doesn't load, it's the 10th picture here:

2008-07-12 14:12:19
122.   Alex41592
10-2 AZ. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
2008-07-12 14:13:57
123.   underdog
Cripes, it's now 10-2 AZ. Thanks, Phillies, thanks for nothing!
2008-07-12 14:27:48
124.   Eric Stephen
I don't know nearly enough about Willie Davis. I would love to read an autobiography or see a documentary of him.
2008-07-12 14:30:12
125.   xaphor
White's final thought from 105 :

"I know people don't like to hear it sometimes, but a kid might get there in three years, but it might be six or seven years before he's really a big-time contributor on the roster."

2008-07-12 14:35:06
126.   68elcamino427
That is a definite must read. White's got my vote for GM.
2008-07-12 14:35:44
127.   Johnny Nucleo
125 Adrian Beltre comes immediately to mind.
2008-07-12 14:54:44
128.   Dodgers49
Ask Kershaw: He loved L.A.

>> Clayton Kershaw realized his lifelong dream of playing major-league baseball when he spent six weeks with the Los Angeles Dodgers, going 0-2 with a 4.42 ERA in eight starts. But on July 5, the young left-hander was sent back to the Suns, for whom he'll start tonight against the Mississippi Braves at the Baseball Grounds of Jacksonville.

The Times-Union recently caught up with Kershaw, who shared his thoughts about pitching in the majors, how he dealt with returning to Jacksonville and much more: <<

2008-07-12 14:55:35
129.   underdog
Speaking of Kershaw, looks like at least the first game of the Jax Suns doubleheader today was rained out. I wonder if the night game will still go on as planned and if he'll pitch.
2008-07-12 15:01:19
130.   natepurcell
If the world is fair, Logan White will be the Dodgers GM come this offseason.
2008-07-12 15:05:04
131.   Dodgers49
Dodgers' Sweeney ready in a pinch

>> "When you have a guy that can come off the bench and get you a base hit against your setup guy or your closer, there aren't a lot of those guys floating around," 51s manager Lorenzo Bundy said. "He's been a proven commodity in the game for a long time, and he's a guy (the Dodgers) are going to need down the stretch to come off the bench and produce." <<

2008-07-12 15:07:39
132.   Bob Timmermann
Proven commodities:

Worthless commodities:
Whale Oil
Mark Sweeney

2008-07-12 15:14:28
133.   68elcamino427
Hilarious and true.
2008-07-12 15:22:22
134.   sporky
A bag of Flaming Cheetos is a more valuable commodity than Mark Sweeney.
2008-07-12 15:23:43
135.   bhsportsguy
130 I don't read anything in that interview that indicates to me that Logan White is more qualified to be a GM than I thought before I read it.

What does he really say, that it takes time for some to develop. Is that at the major league level, the guys he drafted in 2002 have been in the system for 6 years, the 2003 group for 5.

Again, it is a whole different animal to be the scouting and development person than being the GM of the major league club. At the minor league level, no one is expecting Ethan Martin to help the LA club right away, but as GM, that move you make as to impact the club immediately.

2008-07-12 15:24:00
136.   Alex41592
R.I.P Bobby Murcer
2008-07-12 15:25:05
137.   bhsportsguy
125 Also, a lot of GMs and managers get fired during that time it takes to wait for that player to develop.
2008-07-12 15:29:08
138.   JoeyP
Well, Logan White is more qualified to be GM than Ned Colletti is.

At the very least, Logan White has a good scouting background.

Guys like DePo or Epstein, or Friedman---> they have the analytical background.

What background does Ned have?
He's a PR guy making talent acquisition decisions.

I'm really not sure why the McCourts even considered interviewing him. You'd think, in order to be a successful MLB GM---> that one must be eithr really good at identifying talent through either A.) Scouting, or B) Statistical Analysis.

Ned was neither.

Logan is at least the first.

2008-07-12 15:29:31
139.   DXMachina
136 That's a shame. He was a good guy.
2008-07-12 15:30:17
140.   JayB
I realize the conversation is about the "Dodger Way" and comparisons about the defense of the present Dodger team with the earlier Dodger team of Garvery, Lopes, Cey, and Russell,etc., but what about 4 infielders (those I just named) who had over 20 homeruns each in one season??? Personally I would take a medicore to better-than-average defensive infield that hit over 80 homeruns among them, than the present crop! Defense is great, but with so few homeruns, that IMHO is why the Dodgers have lost so many low scoring games! No power! What power you have is batting lead-off! Kemp is not a lead-off hitter!!!!!
2008-07-12 15:30:55
141.   regfairfield
Alex Rios is another guy that took a while.
2008-07-12 15:32:19
142.   regfairfield
Kemp also doesn't have power (yet). You can win without hitting home runs, it's just that the Dodgers don't have the defense thing down either.
2008-07-12 15:41:40
143.   JayB
Even with good pitching, you have to score runs to win! Lead-off hitters need a good OBP and need to work the pitcher. Lots of S.O's and very few B.B.'s is not good for a lead-off hitter; working the pitcher and getting on base a lot is what is needed. Other than the fact that Kemp's has good speed and a good S.B. stat, I think he is better suited in the 3,4, or 5 slot where he can drive in runs!
2008-07-12 15:42:17
144.   68elcamino427
Does Kemp not have power or is he just not using the power that he does have properly?
2008-07-12 15:44:54
145.   regfairfield
I'm not saying Kemp is good leadoff hitter, he's not, but it's entirely possible to win games without hitting home runs.
2008-07-12 15:45:09
146.   sporky
And I thought I liked exclamation marks.
2008-07-12 15:45:34
147.   regfairfield
144 He doesn't have power that's actually helping the Dodgers at this moment.
2008-07-12 15:51:58
148.   68elcamino427
White has the knack for recognizing talent and projecting what that talent may become.
Some of this knack is learned and some of it is a genius ability, a talent.

So would you prefer your GM to be someone who can evaluate talent and make ery good decisions when drafting and trading or do you prefer an MBA type that can master the contracts and needs to rely on the talent evaluators before making the final decisions? In the latter case the MBA is saddled with the final decison and really just making an educated guess. In the former the highly skilled talent evaluator knows from the imperical evidence and from his instinct what the best decision is. The talent evaluator can always hire a Kim Ng type to perfect the details. I prefer the intelligent talent evaluator as the final decison maker.

2008-07-12 15:57:26
149.   Gagne55
140 When did Russell ever hit 20 home runs in a season?
2008-07-12 15:58:34
150.   Alex41592
Kerry Wood is out of the All-Star game with a blister. Replacement to be named later.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-07-12 16:00:42
151.   DXMachina
The thing you have to remember about the baseball in the late seventies and early eighties is that there weren't a whole lot of good hitting shortstops in baseball. Here are the NL starting shortstops in 1977 with their OPS+. The AL was about the same. Templeton was the only starting shortstop in the majors over 100. (Things started to get better in '78 when Trammel came up and Yount broke out.)

Garry Templeton (StL) 110
Dave Concepcion (Cin) 84
Chris Speier (Mon) 81
Bill Almon (SD) 80
Bill Russell (LA) 78
Ivan DeJesus (Chi) 76
Larry Bowa(Phi) 72
Frank Taveras (Pit) 70
Pat Rockett (Atl) 64
Tim Foli (SF) 53
Roger Metzger (Hou) 51
Bud Harrelson (NY) 34

The other thing to remember is that half the parks in the NL were turf, which probably knocks down the error totals for the six guys who played on it, most of the time. Russell was in the middle of the pack.

2008-07-12 16:01:45
152.   JayB
149. I stand corrected on Russell, it must have been one of the outfielders. I just remember that the Dodgers had 4 players that hit 20 or more homeruns one year, and I believe Garvery, Lopes, and Cey were the other three. My mistake.
2008-07-12 16:02:39
153.   ToyCannon
Adkins has had some brilliant outings followed by terrible outings. He's a year out of college, pitching in a tough offensive league, temper the expectations.
2008-07-12 16:03:34
154.   68elcamino427
Was Dusty Baker the other player with 20 HR's that year?
2008-07-12 16:03:46
155.   Alex41592
152 -


Garvey - 33 HR's
Cey - 30 HR's
Baker - 30 HR's
Smith - 32 HR's

2008-07-12 16:04:03
156.   DXMachina
152 - You're thinking of Garvey, Cey, Smith, and Baker, who all hit 30 one year.
2008-07-12 16:05:42
157.   68elcamino427
RIP Bobby Murcer - Think Cure
2008-07-12 16:05:55
158.   ToyCannon
Garvey, Cey, Baker, and Smith hit 30 or more in 1977.
In 1979 Garvey, Cey, and Lopes all hit 28 home runs. It was the only time in Lopes career he hit more then 20 home runs.
2008-07-12 16:06:36
159.   Alex41592
Garvey, Cey and Baker each only had one 30 HR season in their careers and it just happened to be the same season.
2008-07-12 16:07:46
160.   ToyCannon
So basically this powerful infield you spoke of was really only Garvey and Cey, the 1st and 3rd which is the norm for any infield. The infield of the 70's was unique for their longevity not for their power.
2008-07-12 16:07:52
161.   JoeyP
142--I'm not sure how much more runs the Dodgers could prevent with better defense.

This team needs power bats in the worst way.

2008-07-12 16:08:24
162.   Indiana Jon
Looks like Kershaw is pitching in relief now. Came in for the second inning.
2008-07-12 16:09:32
163.   sporky
Buster Olney has a new blog post regarding steroids, age and performance drop off:

>>The age of decline has seemingly been reset into the age range of 33-34, rather than at 37-38.


And some officials believe that what they are seeing in the last couple of years -- a seemingly natural physical regression in players in their mid- and late-30s, in keeping with what presumably took place before the Steroid Era -- will be reflected in contract negotiations.

"Five years ago, you could give a guy who was 33 or 34 years old a three-year or four-year deal and believe he could still be a pretty good player at the end of the deal," an AL GM said. "I'm not so sure anymore.<<

2008-07-12 16:10:04
164.   Eric Stephen
That was merely the resumption of a suspended game from last night, which was stopped in the 1st due to rain.
2008-07-12 16:10:12
165.   ToyCannon
Pat Rocket brings back nothing from my memory banks. I wonder if Josh has done a Cardboard God story on him?
2008-07-12 16:11:23
166.   ToyCannon
Take note Rafy
2008-07-12 16:17:38
167.   Indiana Jon
164 Yes. I didn't mean he was permanently pitching in relief. Just that he was pitching now in the 2nd inning.
2008-07-12 16:18:03
168.   Bob Timmermann
You don't remember Pat Rockett? Man, he was ... so ... very Braves like of that era.

The Braves stunk back then and we liked that way!

2008-07-12 16:19:56
169.   silverwidow
Nomar, SS
Ethier, LF
Martin, C
Kent, 2B
Jones, CF
Loney, 1B
Kemp, RF
DeWitt, 3B
Kuroda, P
2008-07-12 16:20:56
170.   Bob Timmermann
Joe Torre opting for the 1997 version of Nomar tonight.
2008-07-12 16:21:49
171.   sporky
169 That's a new one.
2008-07-12 16:21:53
172.   goofus
163 Too late to save Ned from Andruw....
2008-07-12 16:23:40
173.   Eric Enders
Nomar does hold the MLB record for most RBI by a leadoff hitter, I believe, with 99.
2008-07-12 16:24:47
174.   Suffering Bruin
169 I think I'm going to start a "Free Andy LaRoche" campaign.
2008-07-12 16:25:07
175.   natepurcell

Lineup is fine. Again, I just wish Torre works Andy in there occasionally.

2008-07-12 16:25:07
176.   Eric Enders
Can somebody please tell Torre that DeWitt's OBP over the last month and a half is about .280, and that his slugging percentage is even lower?
2008-07-12 16:25:09
177.   Bob Timmermann
Close, but it was 98.
2008-07-12 16:25:44
178.   goofus
Good choice for leadoff, a guy who steps out of the dugout swinging already... But maybe hitting Kemp lower will help him, if so, I can stand Nomar leading off. To me, Ethier is their best choice, he has patience and he makes contact.
2008-07-12 16:26:03
179.   Bob Timmermann
Darin Erstad had 100 RBI batting leadoff in 2000.

His bank account says thanks.

2008-07-12 16:27:45
180.   sporky
Kershaw might get his first win of the year!
2008-07-12 16:28:31
181.   JayB
160. More "powerful" than the present infield.
2008-07-12 16:30:09
182.   JoeyP
Looks like Joe just flipped Nomar & Kemp.
I'm still surprised he doesnt try Russ at lead off.

Putting free-swingers like Nomar, Pierre, Kemp in the lead off spot just doesnt make a great deal of sense.

2008-07-12 16:30:24
183.   Eric Enders
Funny how Nomar got all sorts of publicity for breaking that record and I don't remember hearing anything about Erstad breaking it. I guess he need to play in Boston.

It's kind of nostalgic thinking back to the days when Darin Erstad could actually play baseball. It seems like such a long time ago.

2008-07-12 16:33:41
184.   68elcamino427
Bucking one of the classic definitions of insanity I'm banking on Jones having a great game with the bat tonight. I must do this - otherwise I'll surely go crazy.
2008-07-12 16:34:00
185.   dzzrtRatt
163 I believe this (that taking steroids out of baseball has lowered the "decline" years" from the late 30s to the early 30s) very strongly. When I was a kid, it was common for players to retire by 35 despite no major injuries. It was considered almost eccentric to be playing major league ball past 40. We're heading back to that era.

And that is yet another reason why the Rosnethals/Plaschke types who insist the best role for Matt Kemp is trade bait to get someone who knows how to win are so misinformed. The premium on young players is higher than ever. You would only trade a Matt Kemp for the equivalent value in players around his age. The idea that you would trade a guy like Kemp before he has had a chance to prove himself one way or the other, "while his stock is high" as the cliche goes, is a poor strategy.

Sure, Kemp could turn out to be a bust, but you've risked almost nothing on the way to finding that out. You haven't cost yourself other players, and you've cost yourself very little money. The only conceivable cost is that by focusing on Kemp you've deprived another prospect of the same opportunity. Compare all that with the downside of Andruw Jones and it becomes clearer than ever that the "trade Kemp now" camp is following a philosophy that belongs on the ash heap of history.

Sometimes the keeping-Kemp advocates are depicted as sentimentalists, yearning for a return to the days when the Dodgers developed from within. To me, this is a coldly rational position that only happens to be emotionally satisfying at the same time if it works out.

If Kemp is who we think he is, he's got 10 years. We can have at least six of them at a reasonable cost, including his likely peak year.

2008-07-12 16:35:44
186.   Alex41592
LaRoche will start tomorrow somewhere with a lefty going for Florida.

This will be Nomar's first start in the leadoff spot since May 8th, 1998. A game that he left early because of an injury in which he suffered a separated shoulder.

2008-07-12 16:37:09
187.   dzzrtRatt
I was in transit and couldn't comment, but needless to say, Jon's post from yesterday was worthy of a standing ovation.

Bill Plaschke might go down in sports journalism history as nothing more than Jon Weisman's foil. His idiocy has inspired some of Jon's best work.

2008-07-12 16:38:45
188.   silverwidow
Kerry Wood is out of the All Star Game.

Could KUO possibly get the spot???

2008-07-12 16:39:24
189.   ToyCannon
It was interesting listening to Vinny last night when DeWitt came up. He seemed to go out of his way to give him support, ignoring his offensive woes and concentrating on his multi game game errorless streak.

For whatever reason Andy LaRoche is out of the loop and I can't shake the feeling that Adrian Beltre is going to be a Dodger again because if they won't give Andy a shot, they have to go outside the company. They can't live with Dewitt's offensive woes much longer.

2008-07-12 16:42:40
190.   Bob Timmermann
The 150:1s have appeared to have hit a rough spot. They could lose the yellow jersey in the AL tonight to the Angels.
2008-07-12 16:44:06
191.   Bob Timmermann
Kuo won't make the All-Star team unless he saves a bus full of nuns and orphans from a fiery wreck. Provided that someone in that bus is related to Clint Hurdle.
2008-07-12 16:45:17
192.   DXMachina
Interesting that after all of Joe's talk about needing speed at the top of the lineup he sticks Nomar in there.
2008-07-12 16:46:14
193.   Alex41592
BTW, not that it would happen. But, Beltre's contract runs out next season in which he'll be paid 12 million. A trade could be possible and it would be far from the worst thing Ned could do. The Mariners are cleaning house and trading Beltre could be an intriguing idea. It might not take much if we take on the rest of the money. Just a thought.
2008-07-12 16:49:43
194.   D4P
Nomar's greatest asset is his ability to hit a single, so you want to maximize the chances that he'll be able to use that asset.

If you only give him 3-4 PAs, he might not get the one-bagger. But if you give him 5 PAs a game, it's almost a sure thing.

2008-07-12 16:52:08
195.   MC Safety
i wish matt kemp was white.
2008-07-12 16:52:14
196.   silverwidow
Kershaw is pitching a great game so far:

5 shutout innings, 1 hit

2008-07-12 16:54:19
197.   Bob Timmermann
Bill Shaikin pines for Larry Beinfest to come to L.A.:

It's sad when someone prefers Jeffrey Loria as one's boss than whomever it is who owns the Dodgers at the moment.

2008-07-12 17:01:07
198.   Eric Enders
197 "whomever it is who owns the Dodgers at the moment."

Is Frank McCourt the new University of Arizona?

Anyway, while I agree about Kuo and the nuns, he did make Baseball Prospectus's NL All-Star Team.

2008-07-12 17:02:39
199.   ToyCannon
I tried to make that happen when I wanted to trade him for Josh Hamilton. I was told I was crazy.
2008-07-12 17:03:56
200.   Alex41592
186 - Nomar also started two games in 2002 (7/15 and 7/16) against Detroit as Tony Jackson has pointed out in his blog.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-07-12 17:09:13
201.   ToyCannon
Once Kershaw proves he knows how to win he should be up in no time:)

I wonder what the Phillies would want for Brett Myers? The skinny is that they are looking for pitching even as they keep one of their best pitchers in the minors. I know he has struggled this year but the difference between his stuff and Kendricks's is a chasm as wide as the difference between Bill Plasche and Jon Weisman and yet Kendrick gets to step up every 5th day.

2008-07-12 17:09:41
202.   Reddog
To me it seems pretty obvious that Andruw Jones' precipitous decline coincides with his stopping the use of steroids. He is a shadow of what he used to be. How else could you explain it?
2008-07-12 17:11:20
203.   Eric Enders
Nomar has batted .298/.337/.517 as a leadoff hitter in his career.

He is also 0-for-1 with a sac fly against pitchers named "Nomar."

2008-07-12 17:16:35
204.   Who Is Karim Garcia

Apathy, weight gain, injury, contract, new clubhouse, expectations.... and most of all, a swing that even a little leaguer would be ashamed of.

You figure out which one of these is the chicken and which is the egg.

2008-07-12 17:17:56
205.   D4P
There are other explanations (e.g. wasn't that good to begin with, is older than he says he is, is fat, got a big contract so doesn't have much motivation, has manboobs, etc.) that aren't mutually exclusive with cessation of PED use.

I think they're all partial explanations.

2008-07-12 17:23:13
206.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Which is more mechanically flawed?

Charles Barkley's golf swing
Andruw Jones' bat swing

At least Chuck can tell a joke. Jones is just becoming one.

2008-07-12 17:23:35
207.   bigcpa
Watching the Red Sox roll up 9 runs on 10 hits in the first 3 innings. Hard to believe we're playing the same sport sometimes. Seeing Pedroia play always reminds me of LaRoche. Guy is just a month older than Andy, put up .308/.391/.454 in the minors, then hit .190 in his first 150 major league ab's. Now at 1,000 career ab's he's at .304/.360/.435. Imagine that.
2008-07-12 17:24:35
208.   Bob Timmermann
bhsportsguy just stopped by the library to look at the Dodgers photo exhibit. I went through the photos again and I was even more taken by the shot of Guerrero getting ready to slam his glove on the field after Clark's homer in the 1985 NLCS.

The photo has such a wide variety of emotions in it. Guerrero looks supremely ticked off. A few fans are standing and cheering. Some are standing and looking backwards as Clark's homer traveled several rows up.

And in the front row of the LF pavilion there is one woman facing forward or at least staring at third base. Perhaps she is watching Clark circle the bases. Perhaps she has no idea what to think.

It's really an amazing shot.

2008-07-12 17:24:37
209.   Eric Enders
204 Lots of people seem to confuse physical failings with apathy. We haven't seen any evidence of apathy from Andruw.
2008-07-12 17:25:25
210.   sporky
207 The Dodgers are hoping for a 2007 Pedroia from a 2008 DeWitt.
2008-07-12 17:27:21
211.   Who Is Karim Garcia

Good point. I should have chosen my words more carefully.

2008-07-12 17:32:37
212.   twerp
202 205 Re "manboobs"--

From Google:

"Androstenedione supplementation may lead to elevated plasma estrogen concentration, which can lead to breast development in men, breast cancer, and pancreatic cancer.."

Not saying anyone should think from this "aha...andro use by Jones." But if there's other evidence along with his apparent major production falloff, kinda makes you wonder.

2008-07-12 17:32:44
213.   Bob Timmermann
On the Internet, words are never chosen incorrectly! It's the best part of the medium.
2008-07-12 17:35:00
214.   Bob Timmermann
Will the 150:1s still be in first at the break?
2008-07-12 17:36:35
215.   Bob Hendley
Where have you gone Karim Garcia? 2007 stats when he helped them to the Mexican League Championship. .374/.437/.680
2008-07-12 17:42:04
216.   sporky
212 If the Wikipedia photo is any indication, he might just have gynecomastia.
2008-07-12 17:42:06
217.   Bob Hendley
215 - Ooops. That be the Sultanes de Monterey.
2008-07-12 17:46:30
218.   Bob Hendley
106 - Bob, so, why the photo of Big Don, Willie D., Rudy, etc? Still standing.
2008-07-12 17:46:33
219.   sporky
216 Perhaps NSFW, but hopefully no one's still at work.
2008-07-12 17:48:48
220.   Who Is Karim Garcia
¡Arriba los Venados de Mazatlan!
2008-07-12 17:52:19
221.   Bob Timmermann
I just thought it was an interesting shot that's all.
2008-07-12 17:53:42
222.   sporky
If Elbert can close out a 6-0 game, Kershaw is in line for his first win of the year.

7IP, 0ER, 2H, 5K and 1BB

2008-07-12 17:54:00
223.   JoeyP
Its as if LaRoche is the new Choi.

The question is:

A.) Will the Dodgers trade him for a Derrick Lee.

B.) Or trade him for a Paul Loduca.

C.) Release him

2008-07-12 17:54:08
224.   Bob Hendley
221 - Here as well. Was it for some variety show appearance?
2008-07-12 17:54:36
225.   Bob Hendley
220 - The Little Dears.
2008-07-12 17:55:28
226.   Bob Timmermann
It was a PR shot for Channel 5. Back in 1964, the station used a local athlete to read the sports news.

I saw a tape of Drysdale doing it in 1964. He wasn't quite polished then.

2008-07-12 17:56:26
227.   Bob Timmermann
Alex Rodriguez, determinist:

""There's really no random events," Rodriguez said."

2008-07-12 17:57:24
228.   regfairfield
161 Plenty. The Dodgers would have won two games more already this year if we had Mark Ellis instead of Kent, replacing Nomar with Hu would have a similar effect over a full season.

Look what defense has done for the Rays. Heck look at almost any team that's surprisingly good, you'll find that the common aspect is great defense. I'd love to have a power bat but without seriously changing the team, it's not going to happen. Pitching and defense gives us something to contend with while we wait for our guys to break out.

2008-07-12 18:03:17
229.   jujibee
Thinking a little outside the box here, but the Mets need an outfielder. How about this:

Laroche, Kemp, Wade, McDonald for David Wright

Laroche replaces Wright, Kemp gives them a high ceiling outfielder, Wade gives them another reliable bullpen arm and McDonald gives them some pitching replenishment in an already depleted minor league system. We get Wright, who's going to be expensive shortly.

We'd be giving up essentially, Kemp and Wade for him because Laroche rots on the bench and we have pitching depth in the minors already.

2008-07-12 18:05:20
230.   natepurcell
Mets Fans would riot if they traded David Wright.
2008-07-12 18:08:17
231.   fanerman
The Mets will not trade David Wright.
2008-07-12 18:08:49
232.   jujibee
230. So is that trade that unreasonable? Seems like a lot of talent for a masher seeing as how our package can be controlled for a while and Laroche might be able to put up Wright x 75ish% kind of numbers with regular playing time. They are already paying superstar type money for a few on their roster.
2008-07-12 18:10:01
233.   Eric Enders
While we're at it, let's see if we can get A-Rod for Lucas May and Brazoban.
2008-07-12 18:11:01
234.   sporky
We get Wright, who's going to be expensive shortly.

I don't think the Mets are terribly concerned with their payroll. Marlins they are not.

2008-07-12 18:13:27
235.   jujibee
233. I did say thinking outside the box. Cabrera left for in my opinion less than that package, not the financial details between the teams match. But if we're going to trade, I'd rather give up a similar package like that and get a difference maker rather than what we've seen out of Coletti in the past 2 years. Otherwise, I'm fine with what we have. But nice sarcasm for what it's worth.
2008-07-12 18:13:55
236.   Eric Enders
"our package can be controlled for a while"

Putting aside the uneven talent levels, Wright is signed through 2013 while Kemp is under team control until (I believe) 2012.

(Presuming that any team can control Kemp, which Plaschke seems to think they can't.)

2008-07-12 18:14:17
237.   scooplew
Regarding yesterday's posting about the Dodgers saying their final goodbyes to Dodgertown:

I went to several Fantasy Camps, and I found Dodgertown a truly remarkable, nostalgic and rich venue. There were streets named after players and Scully, and Campy's Corner, where Campanella would hold court for so many years after he was so badly injured. There were also giant photo collages in the bar/lounge of each of the World Series that we won. There were enormous photos down a hallway of players from the 1940s and on, including a remarkable one of Jackie Robinson in a rundown -- he evaded the tag -- and one of Gil Hodges stretching so far at first you wonder how he avoided ripping his hamstring. There was a posed shot of the players, some holding umbrellas on a Jeep-like vehicle, and a set-up shot of Pee Wee Reese and Stan Rojek (?) diving through the air next to one another in the infield, their arms outstretched in front of them. You could warm up and throw into the strings that helped pitchers find their control. There was a giant color photo of Dodger Stadium. There were four full practice fields and Holman Stadium, I could go on and on. This was where the Dodgers Way to Play Baseball was born and nurtured. Suffice to say, that this was a special place, and I will miss it.

2008-07-12 18:20:00
238.   Eric Enders
If we want to discuss Wright seriously, I would guess the bidding would start at Kershaw, Billingsley, Kemp, and LaRoche. And even that might not be enough.

He doesn't have a no-trade clause, so at least there's that.

2008-07-12 18:20:43
239.   JoeyP
Dodgers team pitching stats:

Runs allowed (374)--3rd out of 30 MLB teams
Hits allowed (385)--6th out of 30 MLB teams
HRs allowed (73)---2nd out of 30 MLB teams
Ks (680)----8th out of 30 MLB teams
Bbs (298)---12th out of 30 MLB teams

Instead of trying to find an infielder that would prevent a few more hits from falling in (and have an anemic bat), I may try to find a few more pitchers that dont bb as many guys, while still trying to maintain or improve the offense.

I dont think run prevention is a problem, not to the extent that you'd try to improve it while downgrading the offense.

2008-07-12 18:26:06
240.   natepurcell
If we want to discuss Wright seriously, I would guess the bidding would start at Kershaw, Billingsley, Kemp, and LaRoche. And even that might not be enough.

I bet that gets it done.

If I were the Mets, I wouldn't do the first proposed trade for Wright. But if when you include BOTH Bills and Kershaw, you have to take that deal.

2008-07-12 18:26:07
241.   JoeyP
I guess my main contention with emphasizing acquiring defense is that defense cannot prevent homers or walks.
2008-07-12 18:27:51
242.   Bob Hendley
I think that we are more than willing to trade defense for some power, isn't that the basic idea of Kent at second all these years? He just doesn't seem able to fulfill his part of the bargain anymore.
2008-07-12 18:28:50
243.   Eric Enders
240 Baseball-wise the Mets should probably make that deal, but whatever GM had the cojones to make it would be raked over the coals in the media, and likely lose his job before the trade paid off.
2008-07-12 18:38:04
244.   CanuckDodger
Read something interesting on another board. Apparently Scott Elbert has complained about having to pitch to Lucas May, and he is not the only Jacksonville pitcher in the same frame of mind. May is so poor at blocking balls and prone to the passed ball that Elbert and other pitchers are afraid to throw anything low.
2008-07-12 18:41:00
245.   Indiana Jon
240 The Mets would easily take that deal, but the Dodgers would be dumb to do it. Wright isn't enough better than Laroche to give up our two best pitchers for the next five years and our best outfielder. Of course Joe would let Wright play, so that would help. Maybe Dewitt will pull, strain, or twist something soon.
2008-07-12 18:44:32
246.   Eric Enders
245 I agree that the Dodgers would be dumb to do it. I just think that any trade involving Wright would have to be lopsided in the Mets' favor, to make it worth the PR hit they'd take.
2008-07-12 18:45:10
247.   Johnny Nucleo
Game over in Jacksonville, Kershaw gets his first win of 2008.
2008-07-12 18:46:27
248.   Bob Hendley
245 - Sad to say, but injuries seem to be what induces line up and roster changes these days: Bennett, JP, M. Sweeney, Druw. It's play until you drop.
2008-07-12 18:50:20
249.   Eric Enders
It stinks to be a fan of a team where you have to root for injuries to save management from itself. One of the things that really hurt the team last year was that Nomar, Gonzo, and Pierre all refused to get hurt. (Well, Nomar did, but after it was already too late.)
2008-07-12 18:53:47
250.   68elcamino427
Re: Player's age relative to performance -

30 5/24/77 Penny - DL
30 8/14/77 Pierre - DL
30 10/24/77 Furcal - DL
31 1/2/77 Proctor - DL
31 4/19/77 Beimel - Meeting expectations
31 4/23/77 Jones - Flopping
33 2/10/75 Kuroda - Meeting expectations
35 1/19/73 Schmidt - DL
35 6/1/73 Lowe - Meeting expectations
35 6/30/73 Park - Exceeding expectations
(36 12/31/71 Loaiza) - DFA
38 2/14/70 Saito - Meeting expectations
38 10/26/69 Sweeney - Flopping
40 3/7368 Kent - Below expectaions - but hey he's 40

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-07-12 18:56:24
251.   Eric Enders
Beimel is most definitely exceeding expectations. Perhaps Kuroda slightly as well.
2008-07-12 18:58:47
252.   Indiana Jon
Pierre is also meeting expectations, unfortunately.
2008-07-12 19:00:05
253.   D4P
The respective performances of Pierre and Kemp in the leadoff spot present a great case study in player evaluation. Observe the batting averages, and then everything else:

Pierre: .256/.294/.290/.583

Kemp: .255/.340/.404/.744

2008-07-12 19:01:29
254.   Indiana Jon
253 Yeah, but observe the way Kemp made two base running mistakes last year. He needs to go.
2008-07-12 19:06:52
255.   Bob Timmermann
2008-07-12 19:16:38
256.   Tripon
Wait, if we really wants Wright, we're going to gut our pitching strength? Then what's the whole point? I rather half a hole at 3rd base, than suddenly lose 2/5 of our starting rotation for next year.

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