Hopefully we can blame the All Star break for the dip in quality pitching.

Got LAT'd...

ToyCannon: Hard to lead off when you are sitting on the bench watching Ethier, Jones, and Pierre play the outfield

[Channeling my inner bhsportsguy...]

Kemp has started 82 of the last 89 games, and the only 3 games he missed in the last 59 games were due to suspension (2 games) and eye injury (1 game).

Kemp is a fixture, even if its not at leadoff.

Lets see Jones hit leadoff. We'll see that six strike outs yet.

Ethier is more likely to miss games than Kemp. He even knows why...

If its one thing with Jones and Pierre, is thats they're consistent.

It was nice to be able to assume for awhile that a runner was not going to go from first to third on a single to left.

Is Kershaw slated to pitch on regular rest Sunday? It looks like Billingsley Friday, and Lowe Saturday, each with an extra day of rest.

The 5th starter spot doesn't figure to come up until Tuesday against the Giants. Assuming Penny won't be ready by then, I would guess Johnson is the favorite to get the call Tuesday.

6
Per Bill James Online...

Pierre in LF, 2008
547 innings
opponents have advanced an extra base 27 of 65 times (41.5%)

Ethier in LF, 2007-2008
561 innings
opponents have advanced an extra base 32 of 65 times (49.2%)

2
I was going to put a little smiley on the end of my comment but then I remembered that doesn't sit well with the macho crowd. I don't believe for a minute that Kemp will be sitting on the Dodger bench.

Hard to do that when you are playing for the Pirates:)

9
:)

Go read the latest from FJM. All you have to do is three substitutions:

Torre instead of Riggleman
Pierre instead of Vidro
Lead-off instead of DH

It's uncanny

11 more like Andruw Jones and his sub .200 BA.

"I feel good every time he walks up to the plate, primarily because here, in America, I have clean water and food with enough niacin in it to stave off pellagra. Plus, very little chance of getting sleeping sickness."

Just as funny, even substituting Torre for Riggleman.

Did someone say today that Colletti was in Las Vegas? I hope he doesn't pick up the local newspaper: :-)

Colletti overdrawn as Dodgers employee

>> Wasting company money usually turns an employee into an ex-employee. So Ned Colletti, the Los Angeles Dodgers' general mismanager of funds, is in trouble with his boss. <<

## A review of Colletti's biggest front-office blunders reveals how lucky he is to still hold his job. ##

%% McCourt should cut his losses and can Colletti before he tries to deal for Barry Zito. %%

http://www.lvrj.com/sports/25795059.html

Ouch. He had to bring up Barry Zito. He's still on pace for 20 loses?

14 Just wondering, but why would a guy in Vegas care about the Dodgers? Is it related to the 51's?

When did "good at bats" become better than good results?

17 Process is better than results. The problem comes when you incorrectly define what a good at bat is.

I hate good at bats.

16 14 Just wondering, but why would a guy in Vegas care about the Dodgers? Is it related to the 51's?

I live in Las Vegas and I care about the Dodgers. So I don't find it odd at all. :-)

16
Kind of odd that news on the Chicago Bears follows it.

semantics

Isn't ALL sports news (except for Nevada teams) relevant in Las Vegas?

Anyone ever visited Cashman Fields? Everytime I'm in Vegas, I always skip it to play blackjack.

The Dodgers are the closest major league team to Vegas. They have an AAA team there. They have a radio affiliate there. Why wouldn't they care about the Dodgers?

23 Gamblers have been allowed to bet on Nevada teams in Vegas sportsbooks since 2001.

How do the Dodgers trade Lowe when Kuroda's health might be in question?

Why can't Torre understand that Kemp, Ethier, Martin, and Loney should hit in the first four spots?

25 because of their terrible at bats

Serious comment:

Juan Pierre doesn't

1. Take pitches
2. Walk
3. Get on base very much

In what way, then does he "know how to lead off"? By being fast? Is that it? Really?

25 Fair enough. It just seemed odd to see an article criticizing Colletti from a Vegas paper. Followed by stories about the Chicago Bears and Billy Packer.

29 - That Torre is a regular Yogi Berra

29 Juan Pierre knowing how to lead off is equal to Ned Colletti knowing how to general manage.

{channeling my inner Tony Jackson} Baawwwk! The sky is falling! The Dodgers are out of it! Their offense is nowhere to be found (except for most of this road trip)! Bawwwk! Take cover, it's over. {/channeling, off}

Speaking of running around like a headless chicken, I'm off to play soccer.

How many managers, by name, would not bat Pierre lead off when he returned? I'm genuinely curious...

I wouldn't either, but it would also shock me to see too many managers not drink that Kool-Aid.

Plus, maybe they're going to "showcase" Pierre.

:-)
:o)

Pierre knows how to lead off and can't.
Kemp doesn't know how to lead off and can.
People who think they can coach.
People who seem confused, administer.

"Hi, I'm Ken Rosenthal, here with Juan Pierre. Juan, Joe Torre says you really know how to lead off. What exactly does that mean?"

"When you lead off, you're the first guy to bat. Otherwise, you wait until a teammate bats. You really have to keep an eye on the umpire, especially on the road."

"Thanks Juan. Back to you, Joe and Tim."

Teams with high offensive production. The Rangers, Red Sox, Cubs, etc.

How many managers, by name, would not bat Pierre lead off when he returned?

What is it about managers that makes them think weak hitters who don't get on base make great leadoff hitters? Just because weak hitters don't belong in the middle of the lineup doesn't mean they belong at the top. That seems to be the mental mistake managers make.

34 - I like that. Hey Juan, hide that limp so we can trade you.

Keep an eye on the Brewers/Cardinals game.

Hard to showcase a guy with that contract. Even if guys like Kemp and Ethier has bad at bats, they have fantastic contracts. You want Pierre for $25 million over the next three years? I got a bridge to sell ya.

38 - Don't know. Because they're speedy? Yeah, that's it. Speed of lightning... roar.. of...

Thunder?

Wait a minute! I should bat leadoff!

Okay, I'm really off.

1-0 Cubs Lee HR.

It's not hard, Torre bats his fast guy lead off. Johnny Damon and Melky were the worst hitters on the Yankees last year, but they led off because they're fast. On all of those Yankee teams, the worst hitter almost always leads off. Kemp isn't leading off for any reason except that he's got a lot of steals.

Russia has made emo illegal. You can't have emo websites, listen to emo music, or dress emo style. They say it causes depression and suicide.

Maybe Russia is not so bad after all.

44

If he would just come out and say, "He's the worst hitter on the team, but I'm leading him off because he's fast," it'd be a lot less frustrating and abstract.

Juan Pierre isn't the worst hitter on the team.

46
Yes. Still stupid, but at least more comprehensible.

47

Close enough.

Looks like Tim Hudson's hurt.

Just once I'd like to hear Vinny say that Juan Pierre would be a heck of a ballplayer if he could steal 1st base.

Juan Pierre would be a heck of a ballplayer if he could walk more, and hit more, and in general not play badly on defense.

Why does Gurnick keep calling Stults a "rookie"? He passed that threshold at the end of 2007.

"Rookie" in Gurnick's world probably has little to do with qualifications and cutoffs, but is more a synonym for "someone I don't trust."

54 True dat.

Here you guys are saying bad stuff about poor widdle Juan, and he goes and hits a double in his first at bat.

Tony Clark, professional hitter, puts the DBacks ahead 2-1.

This just in: CC Sabathia is pretty good.

56 - Double AND a walk for Pierre so far in Vegas.

Cubs have 2nd and 3rd with nobody out.

Lilly delivers on a high chopper over third to score one run. 1st and 3rd with nobody out for Soriano. 2-2.

Slow ground out scores another. 3-2 Cubs Top 5.

Lilly steals third!

63
I'm lobbying for pitchers' hitting stats to count in my fantasy league.

And the steal comes through on a groundout. 4-2 Cubs.

4-3 Cubs after a Jackson RBI triple. Then the D-Backs ran themselves out of the inning.

The Giants broadcasters were just talking about Kershaw. Saying he has a great curve, but has to get it over for strikes.

Hey guys,

I thought today's Dodger game was more uplifting than the last two. We got some six innings out of Kuroda this time... six!

I'm so glad that worked out. The last thing I'd want is for LA to have its bullpen all banged up. The Dodgers even held the Rockies to 5 runs. I didn't see the game on TV, but it appeared to be a better showing than yesterday.

Anyhow, here's my random pic of the week. Me in front of NBC studios! Enjoy

http://flickr.com/photos/28821347@N04/2690499259/in/set-72157606303005938/

RBI single Soto 5-3 Cubs Top 8. 1st and 3rd one out.

I want CC on the team next year. Perfect fit really- west coast, National league, have $$$ available. And what a rotation we would have. CC, Billingsley, Penny, Kuroda, Kershaw.

Arizona's defense is awful.

And by the way, how did they end up without a lefty reliever? Shouldn't they make Doug Davis a LOOGY and put Scherzer or somebody in the rotation?

Slaten went on the DL the game after he gave up the bomb to Loney.

FSN AZ spelled Dan Haren's name on a graphic as "Harden."

71 - Doug Slaten strained his right knee.

Heh. The DBacks broadcast just announced their Friday starter as Rich Harden.

They really do want to be the Cubs.

70

No argument here. CC is lookin' GOOD right now. No hitting the Cardinals until the 6th inning? Strong stuff.

--

How did Arizona win the last two games? Wow!

Bases loaded walk. 6-3 Cubs.

How long before Micah Owings goes the Rick Ankiel/Adam Loewen career path? His pitching is something less than inspiring.

Obviously there are three of us here and think we should stipulate for the record that we are all watching the Cubs-DBacks game.

If the Cubs lose this game, they would drop from #1 to the wild card.

However, I doubt the Cubs will lose this game.

The Cubs-DBacks game is now officially over.

Are there any other games on?

Giants vs. Nats!

Grand slam Reed Johnson 10-3 Cubs! Fan may have interfered...

We'll have to fight the Yanks, and maybe the Angels for C.C.'s services. (I'm always going to add the periods for his name). And Penny's 2009 year is with a team option with a 2 million dollar buyout. Its likely the team will pick it up, but you never know. If we do the deal for C.C., with around 17 mil a year, for whatever year, I would assume the money we pay Kent and Nomar today would cover most of it.

Official 10-3 Cubs. 1 back.

So what do you guys think of that call?

To me, it was close, but not definitive enough to make the interference call.

82
New York Times Style Guide Fetishist!

Man, Eric Young over at baseball Tonight is somehow worse than Steve Phillips and John Kruk.

84 - That summed it up quite nicely.

Ron Santo is giddy. I'm hearing a lot of "Alright" tonight.

Would fan interference be subject to instant replay? I would think that you could look at that hit 100 times and not come up with a definitive call.

Bob, did you count me among the "three people watching the Az/Cubs game?"

There's also a yellow alert for Ree Johnson, believe it or not!

82 - whichever team agrees to leave off the periods gets to sign him.

90 - me, too. That salami was really something, second one I've seen today (I was at the Angels game).

90
No.

And you aren't one of the officially authorized cycle alert observers.

But thank you anyway.

Yellow alert for Reed Johnson in Phoenix. This is a yellow alert.

82

I really think CC wants to hit. Heck, he might be our team leader in homers if he had 250 ABs. He's fared pretty well in the NL so far, so i'm thinking he would like to stay. Also, look at all of the money we have coming off of the books after next year. Over $30 million from just Jones and Schmidt which could be used to give CC his deal and hopefully extend some of the young guys. That doesnt even include the money we have from Kent, Furcal, and probably Lowe after this year

89 - agreed. It looked to me like the fan lifted his arms under the ball but not enough to touch it; the ball actually cleared his arms and bounced off the top of the wall.

93 - CC is also a California native, so LA would be pretty attractive I would think.

93 Think we can do a sign and trade for C.C. for Juan Pierre and Andruw Jones? The Brewers get a lead off man, and a power bat!

Actually, for a somewhat serious post, do teams still get draft picks if they do a sign and trade?

Sabathia is also Milton Bradley's best friend, so I'm sure he's heard all sorts of wonderful stories about how great the McCourts are.

96 The question hasn't come up because teams aren't allowed to trade free agents until midseason (June?) the following year.

The guy is building a house in Orange County somewhere.

Don't turn those tvs off yet! Snyder with a 3 run bomb... 10-6 Cubs in the 8th.

But, Snyder killed the rally, Romero struck out and it's in the ninth.

I love how homers tend to kill rallies.

The Brewers are not gonna trade CC after they picked him up, but count me among those who'd love to see us sign him in the off season. I'd be pretty happy replacing Lowe with Sabathia.

Glad the Cubs got the W today. I take back all my threats and insults.

I need to go curl up in the fetal position now. Ciao.

Whoops - thought that one was over. Okay, bottom of the 9th. Better watch to make sure the game hasn't been jinxed.

The game isn't over, but I'm betting a certain Cub outfielder's attempt at something is. I dont have the credentials for specifics :D

Good to see Hu with a couple of hits for Vegas tonight too, including a double.

I can't believe Eric Cyr is back, yeesh.

Dbacks have 2 on with 2 out, down 10-6, and they pinch hit for their leading RBI and HR guy Reynolds with Chad Tracy. Interesting.

And Marmol throws Tracy three straight breaking pitches and makes him look foolish, game over.

And... scene!

97 But you know who will be gone.

Hu's on fire lately. Another hit to make it a 3 for 5 night.

Isn't Chad Tracy the D'Backs best hitter for the past two weeks? Why is he pitch hitting?

109 Unless Ned loses it and resigns Kent for another year.

Tonight the left-handed Tracy sat with the left-handed Lilly pitching.

It worked out for them. Tony Clark played instead and homered.

112 O lost, and by the wind grieved, ghost . . .

Cycle alert canceled. Stand down.

Sorry. I had to take out the garbage.

And that wasn't metaphorical.

Ned: Kent gives us tough at bats, and he's a bargin at only $8 million a year. To be frank, if you have a hall of fame caliber player and you have a chance to sign him. You do it. He'll also will continue to provide leadership in the field and in the clubhouse. I'm sure our younger guys in the team values the experience he has, and I hope they learn from him.

All three division leaders in the NL lead their closest pursuers by one game.

I'm assuming that the Mets and Phillies aren't pursuing each other since they are tied.

Dylan Hernandez:

The Dodgers appear to be unwilling to meet Baltimore's high asking price for closer George Sherrill

I hate Baltimore. We're not going to get fleeced like Seattle did.

I don't think the current version of the Dodgers stacks up very well against the 1927 Yankees. Then again, in two weeks or less we should have Juan Pierre back.

110 I think it's because Hu's eyes work now.

110 120 I wonder if Hu had vision problems when he was with the Dodgers.

121 Yeah, probably. But he kept it quiet because he was starting everyday in the big leagues.

The center fielder for the '27 Yankees, Earle Combs, was basically like Juan Pierre, except good. He had the worst throwing arm in baseball, no home run power, but lots of speed (lots of triples) and he got on base an awful lot.

I know this was a bone of some contention last month, but are we all basically agreed now that the Dodgers would be better with Hu as Nomar's caddy instead of Berroa? (Development issues aside.)

I don't know why Berroa's still on the team since Ozuna does everything that Berroa does and then some.

But Combs still hit some home runs (58 in all). But he didn't steal many bases, although stealing bases with Ruth and Gehrig following you in the order is probably contraindicated.

In Game 4 of the 1927 World Series the Yankees won the championship on a walk-off wild pitch.

With the bases loaded and nobody out Johnny Miljus struck out Gehrig and Meusel. But threw a wild pitch to Lazzeri and Combs scored to win the title.

127
They were following the plan ...

Walks received in the 1927 World Series:

Yankees 13
Pirates 4

Strikeouts by batters in the 1927 World Series:

Yankees 25
Pirates 7

OBP in the 1927 World Series:

Yankees .338
Pirates .243

the '27 Yankees were pretty good. I'm particularly amazed by the fact that the guy who hit .356/.486/.772 with 60 HR, 164 RBIs, and 192 hits didn't even get a vote for MVP that year.

In those days a person could only win the MVP once. Ruth won in 1923 so he could not win the award again. Also, you could only nominate one player from each team for the award. Gerhig was the Yankees choice. So, he selected as MVP.

ok, someone explain to me how the dodgers still have a better chance of winning the west than the snakes. or should i just write this off as part of the world according the espn?

Because the Dodgers have a much better bullpen, pretty good starting pitching, and both the D'backs and the Dodgers both have young, growing hitters. And lately the Dodgers young players have out performed the D'Backs young players. Also, Brandon Lyons is a horrible closer who is the 2nd coming of Eric Gagne, circa 2007 and 2008.

A classic football matchup this December 7:

Steelers vs. Cowboys

In Pittsburgh for the first time in 11+ years.

133

The real X factor is the Rockies. You can see the Rockies gaining confidence after their last homestand.

Will they be able to carry the momentum from the homestand on the road, or was this recent surge just an anomaly?

I don't know if the Dodgers have a better chance than the Snakes but I can't see them as having any less a chance. They are both flawed teams with talent. How or if they overcome those flaws will tell the story. But I think Tripon's right, the Dodgers could conceivably overcome them with LA's strengths. The X factors for the Dodgers could be, if they're neck and neck come September, which I expect they will be: could Furcal come back? And who will get the help from within the organization, in addition to possible help from outside. There's no way Arizona runs away with it. And Colorado, yeah, they could jump back in this thing, though I still see their starting pitching depth as weak past the first couple of guys. We shall see.

In the 2nd half it should be interesting to see how the older guys (30+) hold up with no types of vitamin B avalable to help, especially the pitchers.

The older guys have moxie, savvy, presence and character -- they don't need no stinkin' Vitamin B.

It's young sissies like Russell Martin who wear down in the second half.

[/end rule 7 violation]

I think a pretty fair report on the NL west by Steve Phillips on ESPN. He liked the D's going into the break, but the Saito injury tips the scales slightly toward the D'Backs- with Colorado still in the rear view mirror, but maybe gaining a little ground. So many ifs in LA… Penny, Furcal, Saito, Jones, 3B, Kent, oh, my… has there been any report on how Raffy is doing in recovery? probably still too early.

Random stat of the day:

In his short major league career thus far, Broxton has 7 saves and 16 blown saves.

Looking ahead to SF series good news: we miss Lincecum again, bad bews: we miss Zito....

This season has been remarkably consistent.

The lowest point was -7 below .500.
The high point has been +5 above .500.

I was looking back in Dodger history, and this year really mirrors 10yrs ago--1998.

That team's high point all season was +5 above .500.
Its low point was -4 under .500.

It finished 83-79, 15 games out of 1st.

Point of positivity for the day:

Loney is on pace for 41 doubles. Ethier & Kemp are on pace for 38 each.

There have only been 5 LA Dodger clubs to have three players achieve 30+ doubles. The 2003 club, offensive juggernaut that it wasn't, had four players with 30 doubles, including Jolbert Cabrera (in only 380 PA)!

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/bmP9

33 Doubles is the magic mark for this trio. No LA Dodger team has ever featured three players with 33 two-baggers.

If you want to include Brooklyn as well, no Dodger team ever has had three players with 35 or more doubles.

133
If this team were to become the 6th Dodger club to have 3 players hit 30+ doubles, is this team on pace to hit the fewest HRs of the bunch...?

144
Yes.

2003: 124 HR (15th of 16 teams), 574 R (16/16)
2007: 129 HR (15/16), 735 R (10/16)
2006: 153 HR (15/16), 820 R (4/16)
2000: 211 HR (4/16), 798 R (8/16)
1978: 149 HR (1/12), 727 R (1/12)
2008 pace: 114 HR (15/16), 683 R (13/16)

From MLBtraderumors.com:

Dodgers have an interest in Robinson Cano and might be willing to deal Derek Lowe and outfielder Matt Kemp, but the Yankees aren't inclined to part with the red-hot second baseman unless there is a front-of-the-rotation-type starter coming to The Bronx. Lowe, who has the stomach for big games and has AL East experience with the Red Sox, doesn't fit that bill.

146
If the Dodgers do that deal, I will not watch another game this season. I give zero credibility to that rumor.

I probably won't watch another game this season either way, but that rumor is ridiculous.

146 i like the idea, lowe and a guy not on our major league roster. but kemp? no way.

That rumor comes from George King of the New York Post (the New York Post, Jerry!) who has ZERO credibility, tends to make things up and is almost always wrong. It's not worth thinking five seconds about.

(I could see a Lowe + a lesser prospect deal for Cano, however. But he plays second. And his numbers aren't any better than Kent's this year. And Kemp... right. Wishful thinking, George.)

146-Another rumor generated by the Yankee Entitlement Machine (how do I trademark that?).

It usually goes like this, "The Yankees are looking at offering (insert rare valuable commodity here) and (insert another valuable commodity here) for (insert overrated because they are a Yankee prospect(s)/role player(s) here), but they should be able to do better than that for (insert overrated prospect(s)/role player(s) from above here)."

Why on Earth would we want George Sherill? He's a LOOGY who happens to pitch in the 9th.

Cano would be pretty awesome though.

151-Should read "offering a trade for"

Robinson Cano is really good, like Mark Ellis good. A package like Kemp+Lowe is pretty close to reasonable.

116 and 133 just can't be written by the same person.

154 -- Uh, no. If Tony Abreu wasn't hurt, and he was actually allowed to play 2B for us everyday, he wouldn't be putting up numbers any worse than Cano is for the Yankees this year.

No way the D's trade Kemp. If you trade him then you have an OF problem. What's the point??? Trading Kemp only made ANY sense at all if Jones was mashing HRs and playing good D in CF- not transforming into a liability on both sides. Jones is a weak spot, Pierre is a weak spot, Ethier is acceptable, but can't carry the offense by any means. I think we are pretty much going to dance with the ones we brung at this point, ex maybe a minor impact bull pen or 3B deal. Lets just hope for some help from Penny, maybe Furcal in Sept.

154 -- Uh, no. If Tony Abreu wasn't hurt, and he was actually allowed to play 2B for us everyday, he wouldn't be putting up numbers any worse than Cano is for the Yankees this year.

154
Andrew, where do you find prOPS numbers? I thought it was on Hardball Times, but I was mistaken.

154 I like Cano, too, despite his down numbers, but Lowe AND Kemp? You're kidding me. Lowe and Hu and/or a pitcher, maybe.

154,157
Cano for Kemp may be about right. But who do you have to play C/RF. Noone. No gain--why trade?

156 You can say that again!

Loney/Lowe for Cano would be a better deal for the Dodgers

162, 156
I am still trying to decipher.

Happy birthday, Barry Bonds!

156--Cano is having a bad year this year for the Yankees. But he did have 2 great years previous, and is still just 25yrs old.

Loney/Lowe for Cano works for both teams.

It gives the Dodgers a 2nd basemen for next year. Plus, it opens up a spot for Teixeira. Yankees need a 1st basemen. Works all the way around.

159 They're there, in their own section.

I'm not saying I'd do Kemp and Lowe, but the talent is pretty close to equivelant. I rated Cano higher than Kemp coming into the season, and I'm not going to stop based on half a season. Yeah, Abreu could do what Cano is doing now, but his PrOPS is .757 and the power is starting to come for him. He's not quite as good as he was in 2006 or 2007, but his talent level is much closer to that than his current numbers.

To keep some balance in this thread I am going with a Kent and Lowe for Cano.

During the AROD negotiations I think the Yankees said they might put Cano at third if they didn't sign AROD.

166 or if tex doesn't work, get AD to move from LF to 1B

169--> Agree.

Unless we can give Dunn or Burrell the Ned 3/50 deal, I'd avoid them. They play in hitters parks, are horrific fielders (Dunn's -63 from 2005-2007 leads only Manny, Michael Young and Jeter, Burrell's -50 puts him ahead of Dye, Cuddyer and Griffey) and players with their skillset tend to go south fast.

167 -- Regfairfield, without TRYING to insult you, your reluctance to change your mind about players once you have made up your mind, regardless of even as much as a half season of recent performance, makes me think of you and Joe Torre as birds of a feather: he held a certain opinion of Andruw Jones coming into the season, and he's damned if that opinion is going to be altered by a little as a half season of continuous stinking, so of course Jones has to play everyday. It is just stubborness, really. Adaptability to changing circumstances is needed to be a good baseball manager, and a good baseball analyst.

[169, 170] Who is AD???

173-Andre Dethier

172 I don't watch Cano, is there any indication that the man suddenly forgot how to hit like Jones did? His numbers say he should start to hit better, and now that his power is coming back his PrOPS should go up along with it. 25 year olds don't go from being an elite talent to crashing and burning.

And you know, you did tell me something pretty similar about DeWitt.

172
I haven't noticed you changing your mind about Greg Miller who has had one decent month in the last 12 and has been the worse pitcher in the the Dodger organization in July if you were to look at results and not stuff.

173
Adam Dunn or Adrian Dantley

As any fantasy player can tell you, Robinson Cano has a huge 1st/2nd half split.
1st Half OPS = 730
2nd Half OPS = 920
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=canoro01

My theory on building a team is to create a core group of guys that will stay together as a team and tweak the team as needed.

Martin, Loney, Kemp for me is that core for position players with Ethier very close to being part of that core. Others might join that core like LaRoche or DeWitt in the future.

If a team doesn't have a core, then fans have cheer other team's players as they come and go through the Dodgers.

For me, the pitching core includes Billingsley, Kershaw, Elbert, Kuo, Broxton and hopefully at some point Miller. Lowe, Penney, Schmidt can go anytime it is convenient. Kuroda might become a part of the core if it looks like he will get a contract extension.

172
I should have used DeWitt. Much better example because he did deride you in early June about your constant harping that DeWitt would cave. I think I questioned you also.

175 -- What I told you about DeWitt is to wait to see if he stopped cutting it in the majors before complaining about him. Once he hit a wall, I was fine with sending him to the minors to regroup, but that demotion never came. DeWitt is another perfect example of what is wrong with Torre: DeWitt made a good first impression on him, so Torre stuck with him for two months of crappy offensive performance. Failure to adapt to changing circumstances.

171--If you could put one of those guys at 1st base, would you be approve of that?

And just to show I'm flexible, I no longer consider short Chris Young to be the 19th most valuable player in baseball.

Don't want to put any more pressure on them, or jinx it, but the Dodgers need to sweep the Nationals at home this weekend. That would put them at the elusive .500 and keep them with the Dbacks at the least, before their series next week. They need to beat the weaker teams at home, period. I will be disappointed if they lose one. That said, I can see it happening...

181 So how long do you stick with a guy? When do you consider a guy permanently broken and when it's just a slump.

183
There was a point at which you considered short Chris Young to be the 19th most valuable player in baseball...?

I can see them losing to Odalis Perez.
Its the Dodgers, you know its gonna happen.

186 Over the next six years, yep. Other than that my list still looks pretty good, which isn't saying much after half a season.

Don't you think Torre's playing Andruw Jones has as much to do with the front office, for having spent all that money on him (and Pierre)? And with Pierre out it's made some sense. When Pierre comes back, if Jones and/or JP are taking away playing time from Kemp and Ethier other than a very occasional day off, I will agree with you he's being stubborn. But it's not like he hasn't seen or hasn't been frustrated with Jones suckitude. Imagine if both Pierre and Jones were on the bench, as they should be, that will be a fun day for Ned Colletti.

I'm doing better than Rob Neyer at least, I didn't have Asdrubal Cabrera on my list.

187 Sigh, I know. The Sucky Ex Pitcher Gets Revenge Syndrome, I've seen it happen.

He just likes typing "Asdrubal."

190 You're not turned off by Cano's 4% walk rate?

140 and 58 holds. Thats why saves are a dumb stat. You can blow a save you never had the chance to earn.

193 I definately am, but young middle infielders who can OPS .800 and play great defense are really valuable.

182
Not me, I want to see Loney break the club record for triples for an infielder.

191
That Jose Lima win for the Royals has certainly traumatized people.

I know the Dodgers lost to Maddux and Wolf this year, but they weren't that bad.

176 -- Miller's July performance HAS made me give up hope that Miller will get his act together in time to ever be a Dodger. (I still think he will get about a million chances to right the ship, from other teams, given how hard he throws from the left side.) I change my mind about a lot of MLB players and prospects over time. I just don't post constant updates about those changes; and thinking about it, when I do write something about a change of attitude, it is apt to be when I have changed my opinion for the better. It is a SAD thing when a player's big league dreams look to be unravelling. That is not something I usually spend much time dissecting.

185 -- How long do you stick with a guy? No hard and fast rule. Every case has to be treated on its merits. I decided a month ago it was time DeWitt went to the minors, for his own good as well as the team's.

199 I guess that also brings up the idea of what consistutes a slump. Kemp and Ethier were sporting .700 OPSes for two months. Is that still acceptable?

Vinny loves Kemp. Were not trading Kemp.

Heh. Yankees fans see the rumour and don't want to give up Cano. Dodgers fans see it and don't want to give up Kemp. It is George King, so it's almost certainly a total fabrication anyway.

Problem is, even if you think the players are roughly comparable in value, it doesn't really help either team, b/c they're both trying to win now. You need Kemp (and Lowe, right?) and we need Cano - now.

Cano's plate discipline is bad, true. Kemp's isn't exactly great, is it?

I'd love to get Kemp, obviously. I'd surrender blue chip prospects to get Kemp... but our best trade chips (Hughes and Kennedy) have had lost seasons. Shelled and injured is no way to go through life, son...

Dunn said in 2006 he would rather not play first base, Scott Hatteberg ended up there.

Dunn needs to be a DH.

Josh Bard is coming back for the Padres tonight.

The entire NL West playoff race has changed.

204
Take courage.

202 I think that's a pretty good sign it's a fair trade.

203 - And Soriano wanted to be a 2B and Cabrera wanted to be a 3B. That is, until they got their long-term money. At that point, they'll play wherever you tell them too.

200 -- If you are sure the player is MLB ready, and hasn't entered a career decline phase, then you have to show more patience. Since DeWitt was expected to be in in Double A this season anyway, a prolonged stretch of bad performance, at a certain point, cannot be dismissed as a "slump." In Jones's case, he has been consistently terrible from day one of the season. He is "done," and I think it was obvious long ago.

There was one voter in the pre-season media poll who picked Cal to win the Pac-10 in football.

The other 38 picked the school on Figueroa near the Sizzler.

2008 salaries: Albert Pujols $13.8 Million, Vlad Guerrero $15.5 Million,
Andruw Jones $18 Million.

The other 38 picked the school on Figueroa near the Sizzler

With the prophylactic mascot...?

211
How do you do?

210 If we're taking things that far out of context, Hanley Ramirez: $439,000.

Joe Torre: $4 million.

206 It may be fair, but it might not make sense for the teams involved. If one team was a clear "seller" and the other a clear "buyer" it could probably be made to work. But both teams are trying to win now, as far as I know. Even if the Dodgers decided to sell sell sell, I don't know if selling Kemp is smart. You sell old guys if you can. The Yanks have finally gotten to the point where they only take old guys if they can be gotten w/o surrendering talent in exchange ($ is fine - see the Abreu trade).

Irrationally, no way do I want to part with Cano. I love the guy, warts and all.

Ian Kinsler: $500,000

Russell Martin: $500,000;

The economics of baseball salary have only a passing acquaintance with economics principles that come out of a textbook.

Old Friend SP vs. Dodgers in recent times:

2008
Maddux: 2-0, 2 GS, 11 IP, 1 R (seasonal 3-8, 94 ERA+)
Wolf: 1-0, 7 IP, 1 R (6-10, 82)

2007
Maddux: 2-1, 3 GS, 16.2 IP, 10 R (14-11, 98)
Jackson: 1-0, 6 IP, 2 R (5-15, 78)

2006
Weaver: 1-0, 5.2 IP, 1 R (8-14, 78)

2005
Lima: 1-0, 8 IP, 1 R (5-16, 63)

That's 8-1 for a group of pitchers that were otherwise 33-73 against the rest of the league, all with atrocious ERA+ numbers.

I guess a counter would be that Pedro is 1-2 against the Dodgers during the same period with a 5.85 ERA.

Juan Pierre: $9 million

Blake DeWitt: Priceless.

Ahh, whining about baseball salaries. It's game as timeless and exciting as playing Strip Stratego.

202 Cano's plate discipline is bad, true. Kemp's isn't exactly great, is it?

Yes, however - and I'm sure you know this - Kemp is two years younger and with ~1250 less MLB plate appearances, so we still hold out hope that Kemp's will improve. Cano seems less likely.

Howie Kendrick: $432,500

Strip Stratego

My uncle and I invented the completely-unrelated "Bang Stratego".

You set up your pieces in the same squares as regular Stratego, but only the flag piece has any special significance. Each player takes turns flicking one of his/her pieces toward the other player's pieces, hoping to knock down his/her flag (thus winning the game). Pieces that are knocked down are removed from the board.

I think I set the record with 12 pieces knocked down on a single flick.

210 Think of it as 9 years of JP at $9 mil instead of 5....
I think the decision has been made to can Colletti, and he may have been told already; they are waiting to the end of the season to announce it. If, perchance, the Dodgers make the playoffs, that might make things a bit awkward.... Kudos to Frank if he sticks with it.

My wife, elementary school teacher and shaper of young minds: $39K

Anyway, Kemp has 30 BB's in 366 AB's this year. Cano has 16 BB's in 373 AB's. He's topped 20 only once in his career.

Kemp's is bad. Cano's is non-existant.

221 My spy just killed your 2! Off with the top!

227
I thought the spy could only kill the 1, but maybe I'm forgetting.

227
A Spy can only kill a 1, can't it?

229 If a spy attacks, he wins, if he gets attacked, he loses.

To be fair, baseball salary whining is more exciting to me than Stratego talk. :)

Alright guys, I'm in a keeper fantasy league and getting offers left and right as many teams are selling right now (deals need to be made before MLB trade deadline). Unfortunately I only get to keep 3 players from season to season. Here is a list of my top priority players, who should I keep and who is expendable (BTW all picks in the first 5 rounds are automatic FA's the following season)?

Kemp
Loney
Billingsley
Kershaw
Kendrick
Price (I wasted a bench spot just to sit on him)
Pence

I need to brush up on my Stratego strategy. They can only kill the 1.

233 *According to wikipedia.

There are rules for tournament play established by the International Stratego Federation. Which I think is one guy's house.

http://www.edcollins.com/stratego/isf-rules.htm

Love this little Gem from MLB.com Too bad were more into un-enhance mode:

One veteran scout believes having Matt Kemp in the leadoff spot will enhance the Dodgers' second-half chances.

"Some people say he strikes out a lot; OK, so did another pretty good leadoff guy, Bobby Bonds," the scout said. "Kemp gives them a dangerous bat at the top of the order, a guy with power who can run. They don't have that with [Juan] Pierre."

Kemp has hit safely in 17 of 19 starts since Pierre went on the disabled list on June 30. As a leadoff man this year, Kemp is batting .316 with with a .393 on-base percentage and a .925 on-base-plus-slugging percentage. Ten of his 25 hits from the leadoff spot have gone for extra bases. In his last seven games, Kemp is batting .406 (13-for-32) with five multi-hit games.

231
But I've got all of my Miners ready to go attack the area around Eric's flag.

232 Billz and Price for sure... maybe Kershaw.

232 - Drop Loney, Kendrick, and Pence right off the bat, as they are easily replaced.

I'd go with Billingsley over Kershaw and Price, but you might want to keep all 3 pitchers and throw Kemp back.

If you want to keep Kemp, I'd go with Billingsley and decide between Price and Kershaw (Price might be more polished, but he plays in the AL East which frightens me).

232
I'd keep Billingsley, Kendrick, and Kemp (SBs)

Isn't Stratego just wannabe Risk?

241
It's more like chess with math.

242
I rescind my bashing then.

240 - Kendrick doesn't hit for power, walk, or steal bases. Unless he's hitting .340 (which to be fair, he is right now) he's not doing much to help your team.

243
It also has elements of poker because you try to bluff your opponent into thinking that some pieces are worth more than they really are.

Thanks for the advice all, it's a tough decision. On one hand I think that if I keep all 3 of the young pitchers, I can just go nuts with offensive draft picks next year. But Kemp and Kendrick (despite his injuries) are really hard to let go. The toughest questions to answer are will Kershaw dramatically improve next year and will Price be a big impact arm out of the gate?

Kemp at the top has eliminated that pit in my stomach of thinking who is coming up after the pitcher while watching the game. I actually have some hope of a 2 out rally. I am sure most can relate.

226
Take heart, my wife elementary school teacher extraordinaire 70K, 12 weeks vacation, excellent health plan, excellent saving plan, excellent pension plan, pay no social security, joy of working with crazy parents, joy of working with crazy kids, having them come back at 18 telling you they are going to Harvard and that you were the reason why is priceless.

Wow, Stratego Thoughts. I can't believe that many people know about the game. Now I've got that stupid song in my head.

STRA....TE....GO

248
You can become a supervisor in a public library and learn who to call when you find lice in the reading room.

That's a valuable skill.

Geez, to learn I've been playing stratego wrong all the years. I thought the spy could kill anyone he attacked. Now I learn he can only kill the big dog. Only at DT's.....

249
Stratego was an answer in a recent NYT crossword puzzle.

"Game that starts with 40 pieces."

249 ... by Milton Bradley.

251
The rules were usually printed on the inside of the lid.

I only had my brothers to play against. And they were all older than me and they always won.

I'd probably lose now if I played my 11-year old nephew. He has the ability to play games that require you to think more than one step ahead.

If you ever want to see me truly humiliated, play me in chess. I'll likely lose in about 10 minutes.

I always thought the rule regarding the Spy was as described in 230 .

254 What about Chess Boxing?

Iraq's Olympic team is banned; no appeal is permissible. At least it's not another news story about the torch.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics/7523708.stm

I think the kids prefer to watch Mixed Martial Chess nowadays.

248 - Thanks, that helps.

248 What state does your wife teach in and long has has she been teaching?

We always made a Mad Magazine reference when someone thought he was attacking the marshal with his spy, but it turned out to be the other spy.

Spy vs. Spy was a fun arcade game.

I'm starting to think Bob's nephew is Little Man Tate.

261 - Speaking of which, did anyone ever play the Mad Magazine board game as a kid? I remember loving the irreverence of it.

Rosenthal says we're trying to get Orlando Cabrera. Supposedly dangling Lowe 'agressively.'

263
He's not that smart. I'm just really bad at chess.

264
Pierre and Cabrera would pair up two of baseball's greatest outmakers!

Mad Magazine board game

Hadn't thought of that in a long time. When I was a kid, people routinely said I looked like Alfred E. Neumann. They don't say that anymore, but I don't know if that's because I don't look like him anymore, or people don't think about him anymore, or people are more polite now.

Alfred E. Neumann

Such is my reign of terror here, I've got people using extra Ns when they're not needed!

254 The recent versions of Stratego now have the numbers reversed, so the Marshall is 10, General 9, Miners 3, Scouts 2, etc. Makes it very confusing to play if you're used to the original.

I guess I was conflating Alfred with Liselotte Neumann.

267
The Griddle Iron Fist.

Famous quote from our new emperor: "Let them eat peaches."

Rosenthal:

The Dodgers, needing a shortstop and late-inning reliever, talked with the Nationals about both Cristian Guzman and Jon Rauch, but wouldn't part with Class AA shortstop Ivan DeJesus Jr. in a deal for Guzman, according to a source with knowledge of the discussions.

Blue Jays quietly discussing Halladay? Dodgers one of the teams?

Report says Halladay is unhappy in Toronto nad has let them management know it. It also said Toronto is intrigued by what other starters such as Sabbathia, Harden, and Bedard have fetched that they may be inclined to trade him (far away from the AL East).

Wonder what it would take to get Halladay who is signed through 2010 at a very reasonable contract.

Lowe AND Kemp for Cano? No thanks.

271 but wouldn't part with Class AA shortstop Ivan DeJesus Jr. in a deal for Guzman, according to a source with knowledge of the discussions.

If true, that's encouraging. I wouldn't give up DeJesus for Guzman either.

272 I would trade Kemp and Kershaw for Halladay.

266 Maybe it's that "What Me Worry?" tattoo you have?

--

265 - Cabrera's OBP is .325 this year and OPS is .678. {yawn} If he came cheaper than that he'd... well, he's still not better than Nomar in that regard. (Nomar = .333 OBP) Pierre was at .327 before injury. {Yawn, NedCo, Yawn.}

God, I can't wait 'til August 1st.

2008 salaries: Albert Pujols $13.8 Million

Did the Cards buy out Pujols arbitration years?

That is one great deal.

The Nats are going to have a hard time trading someone who isn't on the team.

In my fantasy league we're talking best pitchers in baseball(real baseball not fantasy) and I compiled a top 15 list, please imput. Would like to know if you agree or who should be removed, added, or moved around.

1. Sabathia
2. Webb
3. Lincecum
4. Haren
5. Peavy
6. Halladay
7. Sheets
8. Beckett
9. Kazmir
10. Billingsley
11. J. Santana
12. Hamels
13. Lackey
14. Felix Hernandez
15. Roy Oswalt

Hurt all the time or else- Harden
Wait and see- Volquez, Cliff Lee

274--Me too. Halladay's probably the best pitcher in baseball.

Kemp/Kershaw at this point do have their flaws.

277 Yeah, he re-signed as he was entering arbitration.

I highly recommend today's Bronx Banter (the one about a 25th anniversary).

Milton Bradley interview:
http://tinyurl.com/6c3lez

283
And yet most sportswriters would rather talk to Mark Sweeney.

274 That's too much for Halladay. And alot more then Milwaukee gave up for Sabbathia.

Trading Kemp causes too many outfield problems and Kershaw is too young and too good to give up.

Perhaps there isn't a trade that would ever make sense for both sides, but I wouldn't deal Kemp and Kershaw for him.

To say that Kemp and Kershaw have their flaws is like saying your 10 year-old kid has flaws. Of course they do. If they are 30 and still have flaws that's a different story, depending of course, what those flaws are.

285 Halladay is not a 3 month rental; he'd be our ace for 2+ years. He's THAT good.

274,280 -- And what a prototypical "Colletti Move" that would be -- over-valuing what a player has done, for some other team, in his prime years, while under-valuing two "unproven" players with limitless potential and their best years ahead of them (and relatively cost-controlled years).

Halladay's still in his prime though, and is cost-controlled for the next two seasons.

Sure we would have Halladay, but our offense would be even more terrible and we wouldn't score any runs for him.

Then Ned would go out and spend a ton of money on offensive players and that has not been a good thing.

In addition, having to see Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre in the lineup everyday would cause a DT meltdown.

I highly doubt Torre would bench Andruw for Young.

Question, folks. I was discussing the merits of the proposed Cano-Kemp+Lowe trade with my fellow Yankee fans elsewhere, and seem to be in a disagreement regarding how good Kemp is as a CF (I think he will be fine, others think he will be below average at CF).

Can someone here shed any insight on that?

This trade wouldnt be about 2008 though. It'd be about 2009/2010.

Halladay on the Dodgers pitching staff....?

{channeling Homer}
aaarrruggghhh...(drools)

286 -- And Kershaw will be our ace for MORE than 2 years, while being paid like an indentured servant -- he's THAT good. And that is not even bringing up Kemp.

Going back to what I said about Regfairfield/Torre, it is odd to see people here (people here in general) dumping on Torre and Colletti (with justification) and then have folks advocating things that come right out of the "PVL's Rule!" mindset

291 - Are we talking defense in CF, or overall? He's a five tool player. He's got holes in his swing, sure, but he's getting better like literally every week. Considering he didn't play baseball full time til just a few years ago, and has tremendous power potential, and speed, he's going to be a good one. He's still learning to play CF when called upon, and sometimes takes wrong routes to the ball, but also has the potential to be spectacular out there, whether in RF or CF. Just my opinion, but...

292 I agree it's about 2009/2010, but by then, how much better is Halladay then Kershaw/Kemp? And Dodgers could go after Sabbathia in the offseason if they are so inclined.

Given that, which is better? Halladay?

Or Sabbathia, Kershaw and Kemp for the extra amount they would be paying CC over Halladay's contract? I know which way I would vote.

291
I think he can at least be average and has the tools to be a high quality center fielder. He needs to take better routes to the ball, but his athleticism can make up for his mistakes.

292
Where is our offense coming from? As I said, you're giving Ned more money to play with and that is not good.

288 -- Halladay is 32 next May. Koufax and Drysdale were retiring from the game around that age.

260
14 years, California, LAUSD(Yuck)

The best advice I'd give any young teacher is to get nationally certified because so many districts offer big bumps in salary because they want their teachers to be nationally certified.

It is a pain in the ass grueling year of writing writing writing and does nothing to make you a better teacher but it does make you certified.
Not that I'm qualified to give advice to teachers but that doesn't stop me from doing so.

295 297 Thanks. I got what I was looking for, it also seems that CF is his natural position in minor league, according to wikipedia.

http://www.nbpts.org/

294 - People here in general? How many people have actually advocated the proposed deals today? Three? Five?

Beyond that, I don't know that Cano or Halladay qualify as PVLs (a term I don't like using, for what it's worth).

I'd be happy to have Halladay as a free agent (and can see him being as good for a couple more years) but to trade everything for him seems ludicrous, as great as he is. We'll regret it within 2 years. We'll have people logging on here with the handle H4K.

Isn't Halladay a guy who gets hurt every year? I don't doubt his stuff, but he (just from my memory haven't looked it up) cant seem to stay healthly for a full season.

I wouldn't do Kemp + Lowe for Cano.

I wouldn't do Kemp + Kershaw for Halladay.

That's about it, back to packing.

294--I think there's a difference between targeting players in their prime, and past their prime.

There's nothing wrong with trading prospects for star players in their prime.

Sure, the Red Sox could have kept Hanley & Anibal Sanchez. But then they wouldnt have had Beckett/Lowell. As they say, flags fly forever.

299 That's crazy, my sister has been a teacher in Oklahoma for 5 years now. She barely makes over 30K. She needs to move to California and start living the good life. (Cost of living not withstanding)

I believe the handle would be R4C

305--He was hurt in 04/05.

But traditionally he's an innings eater that actually has talent.

And for the record, I'm against both proposed trades mentioned today.

Flags fly forever, what a great line.

306 I'm with him.

303 -- I wondered if my phrasing was unclear. The "people here in general" part applied to "dumping on Torre and Colletti." That is certainly true, and as I said, I think it is justified dumping, rather than being unfair. JoeyP certainly dumps on Colletti, for many reasons, and it seemed odd to me that he would advocate what to me would be a quintessential Colletti move (and very anti-Billy Beane, JoeyP's idol).

Even though Kershaw hasn't been that impressive, I feel very strongly that he is going to be really really good as early as maybe next year. There are some players you stick with and he is that player for him. I'm not dealing him in any reasonable trade situation.

Me being purely bored at work, but:

298--Tex & Dunn.

Loney & Lowe for Cano.

C, Martin
3b, LaRoche
1b, Texiera
LF, Dunn
RF, Ethier
2b, Cano
CF, Druw
SS, DeJesus/Nomar

Staff:
Halladay
Billingsley
Penny
Kuroda
Kuo

That would be a team with everyone in their prime except Nomar/Druw.

308 But I don't the cost of living should be ignored, either. (As my sister the Bay Area CA schoolteacher will tell you.)

309 Yah, but the K's took care of two players.

309 Yah, but the K's took care of two players.

313--Colletti moves young players for inconsequential crap or over the hill veterans. Thats why I dump on him. He doesnt know how to correctly value under-valued commodities, or turn junk piles into something useful.

I've never been opposed to trading prospects for in their prime difference making players.

In addition, while Beane does some terrific things, I think the Dodgers need to aspire to be the Red Sox (given their budget), rather than the As.

307 -- Kemp is not a prospect. And again: it is odd that this board constantly, collectively rips journalists for calling our non-prospects "prospects" and then someone here uncharacteristically makes the same mistake. And Kershaw, while a prospect for a limited time yet, isn't just any old prospect: he's the very best one in baseball, according to Baseball America. And no, the #1 prospect in the game NEVER gets traded, as in, it has never happened.

279 - I like Lincenum quite a bit too, but I'm not sure he's put in enough time to be considered one of the best in the business. If he has another year or two like he's having, I'd definitely put in in the top five.

I'd trade for Halladay in a heartbeat. The package could not include any of the following though: Bills, Kershaw, Kemp, Ethier, Martin. Everyone else in the organization is available.

Lowe to the Yanks for Austin Jackson and Wilson Betemit.

DFA Sweeney and Berroa. Jackson takes over in CF when Jones is done in 2009.

I have an unhealthy mancrush over Austin Jackson, sorry.

322
So who is the Yankees backup infielder for the times when Jeter and Rodriguez can't play?

324 - as a Dodger fan, I believe the proper response to that question is: Who cares?

From a Yankee perspective, I believe the answer would be: those guys get paid too much to take a day off.

I still don't know why we're trading out most consistent pitcher (not the best, that's reserved for Chad), especially with Penny's status still unknown or unreliable. What would have been better is to have had a healthy Penny and then trade him, since if he was healthy he would have been overvalued. But he had to ruin things by being bad the first half of this season and getting injured. Sigh. Wait, what were we talking about?

324
We can give them Berroa : )

324

I am not against including Berroa in that trade scenario.

320--> If the Dodgers were a small market team, then yes it would be smart to keep the young players and hope they pan out.

But, given the payroll, trading them for something more currently established (and much better) would make the team better in 09/10.

The Dodgers have a $130 mils payroll. Worrying how they would replace Kershaw in 2011 should be the last of their concerns.

You act as if this is Liriano, Bonser, Nathan for AJ.

We're talking Roy Halladay.
If you're not going to trade prospects (even as good as Kershaw) for the best pitcher in baseball, then you're basically a huge risk taker. Betting on the risk, instead of taking the sure thing.

The only thing you're risking is money (Halladay's 09/10 contract), unless you really believe Kershaw is going to be better than Halladay during those two years.

Kershaw for all his good stuff, is not even close to Lincecum. He looks good, but his periperals at the minor league level (K/rate especially), suggest he's not going to be better than a Billingsley, and certainly not one of the best pitchers in baseball in 09/10 like a Halladay currently would be.

If Kershaw turns out awesome in 2011 and 2012, then great for him. But I think the Dodgers should be able to manage given their payroll.

It'd hurt dealing Kemp IMO moreso than Kershaw, simply bc Kemp is so darn valuable in CF if he OPS's .820+ or so.

{repeats 276 until falls asleep}

The Kent-to-TB chatter is somewhat amusing. Maybe we can give them Larry Bowa while we're at it.

realistically, what would the Dodgers have to give up to get Halladay? And if they could get Halladay, doesn't that make Lowe expendable?

329
We are not the Red Sox. The Red Sox have Theo Epstein. We have Ned.

*We're talking Roy Halladay.
If you're not going to trade prospects (even as good as Kershaw) for the best pitcher in baseball*

I have him 6th. 279

328 - Now there's a sentence that hasn't been written since, what, 2005?

319 -- Fine, let's be the Red Sox. The Red Sox DON'T trade the prospects they really value for veterans. Hanley Ramirez was in every sabermetrician's dog house when the Red Sox dealt him, coming off a statistically unimpressive year in Double A. It was the scouts who loved Ramirez. If Theo Epstein had had any idea what Ramirez was going to do for the Marlins, he would not have made that trade, and the Red Sox would have still won the World Series if they had had Ramirez at SS instead of Lugo and had made some other arrangements for their rotation instead of getting Beckett. And Beckett was 25 when the Red Sox traded for him, not over 30.

Trade scenarios? I guess it's an off-day...

326--Couldnt the Dodgers just re-sign Lowe if they wanted him back that badly after the season?

When you deal Lowe now, you're really targeting 09/10.

I dont think anyone is arguing that trading Lowe will make the 08 team better. I doubt it would.

Let's look at a comparable trade, though - how the Mets acquired Santana, also considered the best pitcher in baseball at the time. How does the package the Twins received for Santana compare to this Halladay exchange idea? Not favorably, I'd argue, not at all. You're talking about THE best pitching prospect in baseball. #1. Yes, Halladay is great, but he will only be great for maximum 2 more years, arguably. At most. AND one of the top young hitters in baseball. So if Santana could be had for a comparably weaker package, the Dodgers should hold out, too, and trade some good prospects but those two guys.

Also Kershaw and Lincecum is not a fair comparison. Kershaw is 20 years old. Lincecum was a polished, older college pitcher.

I'm not adverse to trading some of the organization's best prospects at all, for someone like Halladay, but that borders on the ludicrous imo. If Colletti was worth his mettle as a GM he would hold out on these thins - and as much as I don't like him either, he seems from what I've heard (as with the DeJesus rumor) to be more inclined to hold out.

338 Yeah but those kind of moves signal a team giving up on THIS season, which I don't see the Dodgers being in a position to do.

340
Dealing Lowe would be a White Soxian "White Flag" trade.

Who would play the part of Mike Caruso?

339. Keep in mind that not all trades are created equally. I'm not sure how true this is, but I remember reading during the time that Santana was getting traded to the NYM that he had tied the Twins hands by demanding a trade to only the Mets. So you might want to be careful when using the goods in the Santana trade as comparison. :)
vr, Xei

339
Santana trade was interesting, because it hurt us that we had so many good young players. Twins wanted a bunch of them, but that was too much to give up. The Mets system wasn't very good, so it was fine to give up a bunch of their guys.

341 Hey, Caruso's playing for the Joliet Jackhammers! There's still hope.

342/343 - True, but that's kind of why I brought it up. I feel like the Dodgers are always being punished for having so much young talent, they're always asked for every single great player. But with a deep farm system, they should still have plenty of good players to be able to trade for something worthy in return. If teams would just stop asking for Kemp...

329 -- So much to respond to here, but I don't have all day. To focus in on the Lincecum/Kershaw thing, you've got to be kidding. Lincecum was in his age 23 season before he pitched in the majors. Kershaw is only 20, four years younger than Lincecum and thus much less developed, and I am on record as disapproving of how the Dodgers have rushed Kershaw to the majors. Kershaw has a higher ceiling than Billingsley, and I recall that you were pretty down on Billingsley when he wasn't striking out many big leaguers, and was walking about as many as he struck out.

345--Thats true but Billingsley's peripherals in the minors were better than Kershaw's.

And the point I was making was that Kershaw is not likely to be a dominant starter in 2009/2010, like a Halladay will probably be.

I didnt say Kershaw couldnt end up being great in 2011. He may well be. But I dont think the Dodgers should put off trying to acquire help to win in 09/10, to protect something that may turn out good for them in 2011.

And its not like trading Kershaw means he'll never have a chance to come to the Dodgers. Maybe they can sign him when he's a free agent?

And its not like trading Kershaw means he'll never have a chance to come to the Dodgers. Maybe they can sign him when he's a free agent?

Ahh, you mean like the big contract the Dodgers offered Pedro Martinez?

Doug (NY): Local paper has the Dodgers interested in Cano and offering Kemp + Lowe. Yanks are seeking top of rotation starter (Billingsley, Kershaw) instead. Thoughts?

Keith law: There is no way I'd deal Billingsley or Kershaw for Cano. That's one of those "does this sound like a phone hanging up?" moments.

341-Being a former Giant flameout, I imagine Colletti could bring in Mike Caruso to play the role of Mike Caruso to solve the SS woes.

If we're looking for a shortstop, I hear Lugo is available. {ducks}

I'm tempted to speak for others, but I'll leave it at me. I don't trust Ned to make the right deal, in part because of his poor judgment of talent in the past, in part because he still views major league players like Kemp as prospects, but also because I'm terrified of losing the next Pedro or Konerko and having in thrown in my face for the next two decades. The trade deadline scares the beejeebers out of me every July, whoever the GM is. What keeps me relatively calm now is, ironically, the failed Sabathia deal. I really don't think core guys like Kemp or Kershaw are going anywhere because White and McCourt will not allow it. Ned is a lame duck on a short leash, and barring a miracle finish he will be gone in October thanks to Andruw Jones.

351 "A lame duck on a short leash": The Ned Colletti story.

What deals did we make at the deadline last year? I know the Loaiza deal/waiver pickup was after the deadline. What came at or before? I don't remember.
vr, Xei

Hu has comes back hitting. If the vision was the problem, then we might have a problem solved.

I'd like to know what happened with Hu. Earlier in the year they said his vision was not a problem and then boom he's on the DL with vision related problems but to my knowledge, no one has said what they were or what the treatment was.

No one here would be shocked to find out A Jones has a left eye problem even though they said they checked his eyes. I'd get 3 opinions before I put that to rest.

There won't be any lame ducks until November 5.

By the way, Jayson Stark says that Beltre has LA on his no-trade list.

329 If you think the Dodgers can be unconcerned with money in a couple years then how about we shell out for CC this off season?

We get to keep a pitcher that every baseball mind on the planet thinks will be one of the top arms in the league sooner rather than later.

And we get to keep an outfielder who might become an absolute stud. And if he doesn't well then he'll just be a 5-tool guy who steals 30 plus bases, hits 20 plus homers, and hovers near the top of the league in outfield assists. Not exactly the worst thing in the world.

351 Ned has said repeatedly this year that Kemp is not a prospect. You can't paint Ned with the same brush as the rumor mongers.

353
Boom Boom fades into the background as he is quickly forgotten.

356
That's win-win!

Why would Beltre have LA on his no-trade list?

All we heard about Beltre was that he loved LA, missed LA, and that was one of the reasons why he sucked in Seattle.

Thats a shocker.

357
I think you'd get about a 90% approval rating here for signing CC as a free agent.

Did Beltre ever say he missed Los Angeles?

Or did people just assume he missed Los Angeles?

360
His steroid source in LA is in Washington?

CC as a Dodger next year would be glorious.

362
Like many Dodgers he said he missed LaDuca. I didn't know what that meant at the time.

Cain retired the first 9 Nats on 27 pitches.

joe (LA): should the dodgers be shopping kemp? seems like they're giving up on him really early.

Keith law: No, they shouldn't be shopping him. You can't rush a guy to the big leagues that quickly - and he sort of rushed himself by destroying the minors - and then expect him to be a finished product when he walks in the door. They can't all be incompetent baserunners and indifferent fielders like Proven Veteran Jeff Kent, you know.

I guess people assumed he missed LA bc of its latin culture as opposed to Seattle.

Maybe he didnt.

And maybe he does have some resentment towards the organization for his age fiasco. Recall Boras tried to get him free agency based on that snafu/coverup by the Dodgers.

367
Okay, Keith Law reads DT.

Pierre making quick recovery

>> "Hopefully I'll be ready to go in a couple days. I don't see any signs why I wouldn't be, but I don't want to jinx myself," Pierre said before leading off and playing left field for Las Vegas. "I'm good -- good enough to play."

Barring any setbacks, Pierre is expected to play three games here before rejoining the Dodgers on Saturday. <<

http://www.lvrj.com/sports/25846069.html

Ja(y)son Werth hit a homerun today.

That is all.

Yeah, I think most of us will be on board with a CC signing in the off season. That just costs money, not prospects. At least some money will be off the books in the off season.

I'd feel a little sorry for NedCo if it wasn't for the fact that he's made this bed for himself, but still... he's basically in a lose-lose situation for his own job security, by not acting at all vs. pulling the trigger on something that could be the final nail in his coffin. (Or bed, I'm mixing metaphors here!) He's basically going to have to pull off something much smarter than any of us expect him to, to both save face and save his job.

367/369 - Keith Law is awesome.

Can someone please recommend a good RSS reader? I like the interface on Google reader but it's hours behind on feeds.

373 white sox fans were killing him for saying alexi rameriez is a bad fielder and that he is not close to longoria for ROY voting.

He was called an idiot once or twice

361 I can't really think of any logical reason for the Dodgers not to make a strong push for CC this off-season.

He's from NorCal and the Dodgers are the only team in this state who can afford to pay him what he wants. I think I read somewhere that he doesn't want to go anywhere East of Cleveland, though I don't have that tidbit in front of me so apologies if I'm wrong (or it was just a rumor to begin with).

Also, it would be a huuuuuuge signing for the Dodgers. It's been forever since we landed the big prize on the free agent market. He'd be 29 in the first year of the deal and would only regress, but he'd certainly be the ace of the team for his first few seasons, and in between starts he could sit next to a certain young, dominant lefty we've got.

Oh and the dude drops bombs.

368 -- Oh, Beltre is resentful toward the Dodgers, but I'm surprised you would think it goes so far back. After Beltre signed with Seattle, he had a lot to say about how he felt disrespected by how the Dodgers dealt with him when he hit free agency, making no effort to talk to him or his agent. That was DePo, and though DePo is gone, the McCourt ownership is still in place.

I'll be shocked if the Dodgers don't go after CC. Shocked.

375 First part is totally justified, he's statistically pretty average except in rate2 (albeit in small sample size). There's pretty much no case to make for him over Longoria though.

Signing C.C. would cost us our first round draft pick, which is 15th or worst. Steve Logan White might be upset that he can't choose another position player and convert him as a pitcher again for another year but I can live with it if it means we can get C.C.

And I personally think Ned's gone no matter how the Dodgers finished. McCourt must realize that both Kim Ng, and Logan White are several team's short list for GM's spots and there's a chance we're going to lose one of them, or both of them. If this team can fire Grady Little after two years to trade up to Joe Torre, McCourt should trade up again and put somebody capable in charge. That or bring back Depo and stick a knife in the Padres' left eye.
P.S. What would be worst for the Dodgers, the Giants getting the first pick, or the Padres?

The Padres are 100% more likely to screw that pick up.

380
Based on historical evidence, neither. The Giants have not made much ground on signing their picks this year, and the last time the Padres had the number one pick, they made the worse pick in my memory because of signability issues. Do the Padres have more money now then they did then?
You hope to rebuild a franchise with a number one pick, not be frugal. Is it a safe bet to say that neither the Giants or Padres would pick the best player available in 2009 due to signability issues?

I still can't believe the Royals picked Hochevar with the first pick in 2006. We should do a stadium bow to them every time Kershaw pitches at Dodger Stadium.

Manny Acta deserves a better team to manage.

He's left with starting Paul Loduca at 1st base today.

Other notables:
Estrada at Catcher.
Langerhans in Left.
Felipe Lopes at 2nd.

If the Nationals hadnt gotten some really good years out of journeymen pitchers like Redding, Odalis, Lannan--> they may be even worse than 38-63.

To think I could've gone to today's Nats-Gnats game and decided work would be more fun.

Poor Tim Redding.

Did I mention the Dodgers better sweep this weekend or... or... I'll punch something!

382 There's no way they didn't learn from the Matt Bush thing, so I don't think there's anyway they miss the best avialable. Has Posey or anyone signed for the Giants?

382 Well, the Giants picked Tim Lincecum tenth in the 2006 draft(Dodgers picked Kershaw 7th in the same year) and paid him $2.025 million as a bonus. Its not as if the Giants don't have money, just don't have the crazy money as the Dodgers, Angels, Cubs, Red Sox, and the Yankees do. The Giants is the same team that gave a $127 million contract to Barry Zito, I think its fair to say that they're able to pay any high draft pick.

As for the Padres, thats what revenue sharing is for.

And how is Hochevar doing? If anything about that whole situation is worth mentioning, its that Logan White isn't going to play softball with anybody, especially not a clown like Scott Boris.

Keith Law has spent four years in the Jays front office, worked for BP, graduated from Harvard and has an MBA from Carnegie Mellon. He might make a very interesting successor to Ned if McCourt still isn't ready to give it to Kim or Logan.

385 - Cain facing the minimum through 5. 4.5 innings in the books in just over an hour. You could've gone and still come back to finish up work. Uh, assuming someone scores soon.

388 - Wouldn't Ng and White quit on principle if Law was hired over them? I would.

Justin (LA): Should the Dodgers be using the Billingsley model on Kershaw (stick him in the pen) to break him into the league? Granted, they started Bills as an SP when they brought him up in '06, but moving him to the pen to begin last season seemed to be quite effective.

SportsNation Keith law: Yes. I think every team should handle its young SP like that when circumstances allow it. It's the Earl Weaver Way.

Hochevar has been really inconsistent so far. He's had three starts where he's gotten destroyed and has been a decent pitcher otherwise. Still doesn't seem like a guy you'd want as a number one pick though.

Ok, the Cowboys plane just landed here, I'm off to see them and get my 59 minute break from work. :)
vr, Xei

D4P (NC): Should the Dodgers be building their team around hitting 3-run HRs?

SportsNation Keith law: Yes. It's the Earl Weaver Way.

389 Ng might now, she realizes that its going to take an awful lot for the first female GM to happen. White would be pissed off to the point of quitting and quickly signing with another team.

388 Law called out Riccardi in public, I think he's pretty much unhirable at this point.

389--Not if they didnt want the job in the 1st place.

Keith Law (Bristol): Top 5 farm systems?

SportsNation Keith law: Unordered: Tampa, Boston, Texas, San Francisco, Oakland. Thought about: Baltimore, St. Louis, Atlanta. Did NOT think about: Houston, White Sox.

389 -

When the next opening here occurs, we're going to lose whichever one doesn't get the job. If McCourt goes outside, we'll probably lose both of them. He's going to have some tough decisions to make. I was just commenting that Law's background is very interesting and would make him a viable candidate.

396 - Then why are they here? It can't be that much fun to be "the guy that makes sure Kemp and LaRoche aren't traded". I would think they would aspire to bigger things.

Don't the Giants have to sign their guys for it to count?

399
The world is not exactly brimming with front office major league jobs. You take you can get and hope it is an improvement. Do you think Ned wanted to be the GM of the Dodgers? He just wanted to be a GM.

White and Ng are only in the Dodger organization until a better offer comes their way, not because they feel any loyalty to the Dodgers. If anything White would have loyalty to Evans for hiring him and giving him the chance to show what he can do.

399 White didn't land the Astros GM job for whatever reason last year, but both Ng, and White are up for the Seattle job, and whatever else opens up(Phillies, maybe Toronto). I say its a good chance White's gone unless McCourt hires him as the GM. I'd say the Padres would be a good fit for either of them, but they're grooming DePo to eventually take over.

397 - I know I'm biased, but I'm skeptical that the Giants suddenly have one of the top 5 farm systems. I know they had a good draft and have a few very good, very young players like Villalona, but I don't see it...

We might actually lose Ng to the Mariners next year. I heard she's a viable candidate over there, at least by reading USS Mariner.

For all the Giant draft bashing, their class from last year's draft is looking really good.

Do you think Ned wanted to be the GM of the Dodgers?

I think Ned wanted/wants to be the GM of the Giants, in part so he can wear his ring (in public).

398 - Ng has more experience, so I think she's a more likely candidate to be LA's next GM (you know, if the unfortunate should happen). I could see White sticking around as Ng's #2 but yeah, I think he'd have one foot out the door.

I think Brian Cashman is one of the few external candidates that would be considered over Ng and White.

397
They got quite a load from 2007 and their international signings.

Withrow has yet to throw a professional pitch this season.

401 - But you said that they wouldn't want the Dodgers' GM job if offered. I don't see either of them refusing an offer, unless another, better one became available (Ng back to the Yanks?)

404 - The M's aren't getting Antonetti, I don't think. So yeah, I personally think Ng is a leading candidate for that job.

Hopefully Sabean will trade some of those guys for some PVL in the off season, true to form, although he seems to have learned a little bit since the Twins trade.

Will Kyle Russell get moved up to the Loons before Ogden ends?

The college 1st basemen the Blue Jays drafted (David Cooper), has already been placed into the Midwest League.

Quite a pitcher's duel in SF. Either that or a pathetic display of offense.

409
I never said that. No aspiring GM would ever turn down an offer unless they felt they were being set up for failure. The guys who turned down the Dodgers saw Frank McCourt and how he treated Depo and ran away until only Ned was left standing.

Brett Wallace is also in the Midwest League.
He's crushing:
.324/.468/.568 in just 37 Abs so far.

410

McCourt bypass Ng for numerous inferior candidates until he picked Ned. I believe that she will never be a GM for the Dodgers under the McCourt regime.

Maybe it's because she is part of the young "new-school" sabr-incline crowd, and that McCourt wanted something different, thus Ned.

413 - Oops, 396 was JoeyP, not you Toy.

I don't understand the fascination with Kyle Russel. Hell, Pedroza was a SS last year who destroyed the Pioneer league at a younger age and didn't get a sniff as a prospect. In over 200 at bats he had a 981 OPS. Russel a year older then what Pedroza was in the same league is at 994 as a corner outfielder compared to a SS.
All I heard was that Pedroza was old for the league. If so, what does that make Russel?

Thats why the Dodgers should put Russell in a more advanced league to see how he handles it.

415 - It's always been rumored - so take it for what you will - that Jamie McCourt is eager for the Dodgers to be the first team in baseball with a female GM.

I think there was a perception that after what happened with DePo, that Jamie's desire was overridden by the desire to have a media-friendly, old school type GM. I don't think that hurdle will exist when the time comes to replace Ned.

I think Kim is a very viable choice to be the next Dodger GM. Not saying she'll get it, or that Logan will or won't get it. But I can pretty much guarantee she'll be on the short list, with at least one powerful voice in her corner.

415 - You don't think Jamie McCourt might want to be known as hiring the first female GM (and a minority too)? She seems like the sort that might be intrigued by that distinction.

I also think that the front office is in a different place than when they went after Colletti. With two quality GM candidates to pick from in-house, he might go for the stability angle.

How's Russell compare to Matt Berezay? It seems like he was just as successful as Russell at his age without the strikeouts before AA ate him alive.

420 - Uh, yeah, what the man said there in 419 .

A total of 7 hits through 7 innings in that Redding vs Cain matchup in SF.

419
Is that hearsay or is there some backbone to that information? Seems like it is easy to connect the dots just because Jamie is a strong part of the Dodger ownership and Kim is a female but I'm skeptical. To many hormones in the same room.

Berezay isnt a bad comp, although his college career was much less impressive than Kyle Russell. And he's a different type of hitter: only 5'11 180, bats right handed.

Berezay hit 26 Hrs in 430 ABs his soph/jr year.

Russell hit 28 HRs alone his soph season in 223 ABs.

424 - It's more than hearsay but it's dated info. It's not just because they share a gender.

Devaris Gordon has made 17 errors in 28 Ogden games.

426 - I mean, you can certainly treat it as hearsay. It's just my opinion that there's something to it.

Man, I hope the Nats toss up a line-up like they have out there today, when in LA this weekend.

If I was the owner I think I'd hire a 3 headed GM if they had the ego's to work together.
Kim Ng - contracts and rules - she has proven to be an expert in these areas.
Logan White - expert in player evaluation
Depodesta - ability to look into the future and evaluate trends. Other then Odalis Perez his free agent signings were scary good compared to his peers.

430 - I agree. If they did indeed get along and agree to their various areas of focus, that would be fantastic leadership.

430 - But who's going to give vapid interviews for sports talk radio and kowtow to Plaschke?

415 -- I'm sure Jamie wanted Ng hired as GM after DePo got fired, but Frank didn't defer to his wife's judgment on that, so there is no reason to think he will defer the next time around.

Hereis something that I never see anybody considering when Ng is talked about as a GM: How many free agents will choose against signing with a club that has a "girl GM?" I think the answer is, "A lot." I think Frank McCourt knows this, and is why he did not defer to his wife's wishes.

433--I completely disagree.

Free agents are going to go where the money is.

Doesnt matter what sex is offering them the deal.

I don't get it, why would free agents care whether a GM is a man or woman? I can totally see and expect the "old boys network" of GMs not being good about or wanting to deal with her, but would free agents really have that as a deciding factor?

433--You might have a point if there a woman manager, bc I could see some conflicts some players may have of having a woman on the bench, interacting with them everyday.

But club execs are so far from the day-day activities of the players I dont think they'd care.

Its not like Kim Ng isnt around currently anyway. The players agents deal with her on most contracts anyway.

If there's one thing that agents of players would be scared of, its that Ng's is pretty much an assassin at contracts. After a couple of years of Ned spending money like a drunken sailor, they might realize that Ng's not such a sucker and won't give a contract like $38 million for two years for Andruw Jones.

We now know what the problem is with Andruw Jones. It's those darn opposing pitchers:

Jones showing slight progress

>> Jones blames most of his recent problems on opposing pitchers.

"The curveballs they throw me are basically unhittable," he said. <<

http://tinyurl.com/6z4q9b

433
Have to agree with Joey on this. Seems these days the player doesn't even know who he has signed with until the agent tells him. Money talks loud enough to shout down any objections of gender foolishness.

438
That Kip Wells was sure unhittable.

438--For whatever reason I laughed out loud reading that.

438
Try not swinging Andruw, you are not some young kid who has never seen the breaking ball before.

438 "It could have been different if I had more at-bats at Triple-A, but I think the team needed another bat," Jones said. "I can still work on stuff up here."

441
It may be the LOL quote of the year. Come to think of it, between Ned, Joe, and Andruw the Dodgers could keep the BP quote desk laughing all night.

Laughing and crying. Jeez, Andruw, if you didn't think you're ready yet how is it good for the club that you're essentially doing rehab in games that actually matter?

And I taught Ichiro had the quote of the year title wrapped up.

That's hilarious.

"If it wasn't for you meddling curveballs, I would've succeeded!" says Andruw after removing his mask at the end of this episode of Scooby Doodgers.

Breaking News: Ichiro really hates Cleavland.

446 What was Ichiro's quote?

A snippet from Jayson Stark's newest article about buyers and sellers:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings

"Interestingly, other clubs that have spoken with the Blue Jays say they'll talk about anybody. But when the conversation turns to, say, Roy Halladay, the conversation ends fast.

"He likes it here," Ricciardi says. "He wants to win here. And he's signed for two more years. So if we trade him, we'd be giving up on the chance that we're going to be a good club in the next two years. And we don't feel that way."

Hopefully this will end Roy Halladay Thoughts.

"The curveballs they throw me are basically unhittable," he said. <<

Funny how they seem to find Andruw no matter where Joe hides him in the batting order.

Then they throw their hittable curveballs to the other guys.

Just not fair!

Oh man, the Nats have runners on 2nd and 3rd, with 1 out in the 9th, down 1-0 to Matt Cain. Then Zimmerman's fly ball out apparently wasn't deep enough to score Willie Harris and the next batter made out too, so that's it, Cain wins a 1-0 CG shutout against the AAA team in Washington.

449

Ichiro quote:

http://ussmariner.com/2007/06/11/best-ichiro-quote-yet/

441 me too.

"If the other corner outfielders have too much speed and too much ability and try to do too much, it's hard for me," he said.

452 -

Please don't refer to them as a AAA team until they leave L.A. You've probably gone and jinxed the whole weekend now.

453 LOL. I guess Ichiro and Bob Timmermann are BFF's.

456 - I was on record here earlier as referring to their line-up today specifically, not their team in general. So hopefully that absolves me. I've already said here I'm worried they'll lose to Odalis, among other things.

Players only going where the money is is a myth. Every FA player nowadays has geographical preferences, manager preferences, pitching/hitting coach preferences. We hear it all the time. We keep hearing about players taking LESS money to sign somewhere because other criteria are in play. In fact, people keep thinking Sabathia is going to be a Dodger next year for non-monetary reasons, one of which is wanting to hit in the league that will let him do it. As for gender prejudices, don't fool yourself: these are jocks, not editorial writers for the New York Times.

Having chatted with a bratwurst vendor on the South Side, Rosenthal now has us trading Lowe for Cabrera since Ned wouldn't give Williams his price for Uribe (what, a case of Dodger Dogs?) A passing pennant seller from Cleveland added that LaRoche for Casey Blake was possible. Ken (him, not me) is excited.

http://tinyurl.com/6n8new

This is my favorite Ichiro quote, though:

On his personal battles with Dice-K:
"I hope he arouses the fire that's dormant in the innermost recesses of my soul. I plan to face him with the zeal of a challenger."

I thought you guys were talking about Ichiro's expletive laden speech before the All-Star game.

461 -

Are you sure that was Ichiro? Sounds like Vic the Brick to me.

"I love baseball, but being here (in the United States), I've been able to play golf every day. I can't play in Japan because every course has caddies, and the caddies all want autographs and don't want to let me golf." - Ichiro Suzuki in Seattle Post-Intelligencer Report (February 21, 2000)

460 Of, I forgot, he also thinks the Sox might ask for (wait for it)...Pablo Ozuna. You know, the guy they just released.

I like this one too:

"Playing on this team and seeing what is happening around me, I feel that something is beginning to fall apart," the center fielder said after Friday's 13-2 loss to the Yankees.

"But, if I was not in this situation, and I was objectively watching what just happened this week, I would probably be drinking a lot of beers and booing.''

Ichiro seems like he would be hilarious to be around all the time. Kind of quiet, but always smiling in the corner like he knows something you don't.

Then every know and again he busts out some hilarity like: "When you talk about (golfers or race-car drivers), I don't want to see them run. It's the same if you were to meet a beautiful girl and go bowling. If she's an ugly bowler, you are going to be disappointed."

463
Feeeeeeling you!!!

I try to stop reading something MLBTR that starts with "Ken Rosenthal says..."

467
know and again

I'm not Canadian, I swear (no O-ffense, Canuck). :)

I also like this exchange after Torii Hunter robbed Barry at the All Star Game

Ichiro: "Holy [bad word] you caught it!"
Hunter: "Holy [bad word] you speak English!"

On performance enhancing drugs: "When you take steroids, it's not as if wings grow out of your back, and you start flying all over the place and stealing home runs (from hitters)."

What's the thought on Lowe's Type A free agent status? Is he on the bubble, or is he a solid Type A?

Let's trade for Ichiro.

467 wtf??

460 that is the most uncomfortable looking pitcture of a human i've ever seen. it looks like they took that picture in the middle of a prostate exam.

I would love for Ichiro to be on this team, even the current M's team know that their fans would have their heads on a pike if they traded him.

The notion that a female GM would hamper free agent signings is preposterous. These are businessmen we're talking about -- both the agents and the players. It is all about the money, almost always, even when the player insists it's about the quality of schools or whatever. And in the rare instance when it's not about the money, it's about the specific situation that the team is in. (Are they a winning team, do they want the player to switch positions, etc.)

The idea that a player and his agent would give up millions to not have a female boss is just not credible. And, as has been mentioned, Ng is already negotiating most of the contracts anyway.

If McCourt fires Ned this off-season, the next GM would be the sixth in the past eleven years (if we count the couple of minutes Dave Wallace served as interim).

From 1938 to 1998 there were only seven GM's in sixty years.

I suppose someone could find another instance of this kind of turnover, but six GM's in eleven years certainly sounds like it could be some sort of record.

A little research please, Bob.

I just got a missed call from (222)222-2222, anyone have any idea what that is?

479 It's the Accidentes! guy. I'd love that number. Just press 2 until someone says hello.

Is there a pitch that Andruw can hit...?

Seriously.

He's hitting .250 against change ups. Yay?

481 fastballs down the middle?

480 i thought that was like a 213 or 310 area code.

482
Where can I find those splits...?

473

He's solid.

473
What's the thought on Lowe's Type A free agent status? Is he on the bubble, or is he a solid Type A?

I don't guarantee much, but I guarantee that Lowe will be a Type A.

Last year Lowe was 9th in the NL in the complicated Elias scoring system (using 2006-2007 data), and the top 20 starting pitchers were Type A (top 20%). Chuck James was 20th. You do the math! :)

485 I used to get them from bornbybits.com, but it looks like he's charging for them now.

486/487 - Thanks. I thought maybe this big rush to trade him might have to do with him being close to pitching his way to a Type B status.

I find it kind of ironic that a GM that is obsessed with PVL is shopping one of the most notorious PVLs on this team...

490 I thought part of being a PVL is not being good at baseball?

Lowe, by reputation, has always had the PV but not the L. Maybe that has something to do with it.

490
If you think about it, it fits perfectly with the stereotype (not that I believe it):

If we keep Lowe, all we get are draft picks.

If we trade Lowe, we can get "proven" commodities, who are closer to PVL status than draftees.

Its the amount of players with PVLs that matter, not the quality of them.

478 - if there's another opening this year, I'm submitting my resume. And if by some strange happenings (no one else applies?) I get the job, I am going to make sure there is a golden parachute provision in the contract. Something along the lines of "if employee is discharged without cause, he shall be immediately paid all outstanding salary and all benefits owed to him will run through the term of this agreement."

Per Diamond Leung

Dodgers signing autographs:

DeWitt, Billingsley, Wade, Kent, Ethier

http://tinyurl.com/39s5sz

I love Indian lunch buffets but I hate how you feel after feasting at one.

Quite a conundrum!

497
I made curry for lunch and dinner.

496 - no dates in Orange County? I hope they aren't ceding the territory.

477 -- Why are you assuming the players would be "giving up millions of dollars" not to have a female GM? Nobody else wants to sign them? No other team? I'll go out on a limb here and say we Dodger fans don't want those guys anyway.

Your idea that it is all about economics is just ridiculously contrary to the facts. Some players won't sign with West Coast teams. Some players won't sign with East Coast teams. Some players won't play in New York because the fans and media are insane. A lot of players won't play for the Blue Jays because they're in a foreign country. Greg Maddux won't play for any team that isn't in San Diego or Los Angeles. Kuroda rejected a contract offer from the Mariners for an extra guranteed year and more money per year than the Dodgers offered because he wanted to play in L.A. DePo made a trade to bring Javier Vazquez to the Dodgers from the Yankees and he refused to come because his wife would be too far away from her parents in Puerto Rico. The list could go on and on. These guys make so much money, and there is no shortage of teams offering big money, more than they could ever spend, that the "little" things often make the difference in determining who they sign with.

This quote from Jayson stark completely confuses me...

Jack Wilson: One rumor -- heavily denied -- is that they asked the Dodgers for Matt Kemp and/or Chad Billingsley for Wilson. But everyone agrees they want two or three players, depending on who they are, all of whom have to be big-league ready.

Mission Impossible?

Ex-UCR Coach Pentland Enjoys Helping

>> His mission is to get Andruw Jones going. <<

http://tinyurl.com/5rg66e

500 You have a point, but it's totally misappropriated when it comes to the female GM thing. Players will alter their destination due to things that will affect them everyday (weather, teammates, manager, proximity to home, etc.), not by who gives the team a pep talk once a month and speaks to the media.

I love that the Pirates are making demands for Jack Wilson. Isn't Kemp better than him right now?

501
LOL

501 - I <3 the "and/or" part of that sentence.

Jack Wilson for Matt Kemp and/or Chad Billingsley. Aim high, baby.

501 That seems strangely Littlefield-esque.

"We want a starter and a top prospect for a three month rental"

"Okay, how about just a top prospect"

"B prospect?"

"Oh crap, the trade deadline is in 10 minutes, we'll take Bobby Hill."

501

Funny.

But are the Pirates saying that Kemp and Billingsley is not enough? That they need a 3rd player?

Isn't Orlando Cabrera going to be a type A free agent as well? He was #9 in the AL last year so I doubt he would fall far enough to be a type B.

I still don't think it's a great trade since Cabrera doesn't have power either, but at least we'd still get the draft picks (or a shortstop for next year if he somehow accepted arbitration).

509 - Neither of them can play shortstop, so obviously LA would have to put Hu or DeJesus in the deal as a throw-in.

Ok the Cowboys just left. Their plane was 45 minutes late landing here. There were a lot more people than I thought seeking autographs etc.. I scored a few for my neighbors kids, the best being Jason Witten. The line for Romo and Barber was way too long, and for some reason even the cheerleaders had a long line at their table. Interesting experience, but I don't follow pro football well enough to know one player from the other without their jersey on. vr, Xei

509 Doesn't matter, even Ned isn't that dumb. Especially now that Wilson has cooled down and his OPS is all the way down to .650.

513 Fire Neil Huntington?

I guess we have to wait seven days to say for sure.

513 But he's still hitting .275.

506 - You know White, NG and Frankie won't let that one pass through-unless they put it up on a bulletin board of ridiculous trade offers they've received that they can laugh at when they've had a hard day! Or paste it into memory album of "trades you would have been hung in effigy if you made them" or the album of "What do you think today is, April fools day?"
No matter what we think of Ned, he wouldn't be that stupid to trade Kemp and Bills for a light hitting SS. He would never get a sniff of baseball job by doing that unless he was a saboteur/mole all along placed by the Giants!:)

Man, if the Mariners got Melky Cabrera or Brett Gardner for Washburn, for once they'd be on the right end of things. It's rumored, anyway, though that could just be who they're asking for in return. I think Cabrera's value has gone way down but would still be of use to the M's.

So many people on the MLS-All Star team are from California.

512 Yet you had no problems distinguishing the players from the cheerleaders.

518 You know stuff about/watch the MLS?

517 - I think the Yanks still need Cabrera, don't they? Gardner can't be an everyday starter for them.

Gardner would be ok (as in, better than nothing), but they already have Jeremy Reed who is a better version of Gardner. Just getting Washburn's salary off the books next year ($10.5M) is relief enough.

Actually Washburn's been better as of late, and would likely help the Yankees. He's of no use to the M's so maybe that would be a good trade for both sides. One rumor had the Yankees also getting Jose Vidro in that trade. See FJM for more on him.

522 - It'd be Igawa for Wash/Vidro.

Financially speaking it's even, only Igawa's salary is spread out through the next 3 seasons. I wonder if he'd be able to revive (or is it just "vive" when there wasn't anything there in the first place) his career in spacious Safeco park.

520
Not really, they just said where they were from before the game.

So since it's an off day and rumors are swirling, here's a question for you all:

Who would you seek to acquire to improve the Dodgers? Don't worry about who our GM is or what you hear out there. What one player or players would you try to acquire, who should be realistically at least potentially available (i.e., skip over those Hanley Ramirez dreams you have), and how much would you be willing to give up to get them?

For me, I think the Dodgers could stand to strengthen the bench with one more good hitter off the bench. (And preferably not Mark Sweeney or someone better than him.) And a good backup SS. But I'm still debating as to who that would be (or would that be Hu).

And possibly one more reliever of quality.

That would be a terrific trade for the Mariners if they could convince New York to pay for part of the Igawa contract. Getting rid of Vidro has the added benefit of protecting Riggleman from himself.

that "or" was supposed to be a ";" for some reason...

I wouldn't mind someone like a Melvin Mora off the bench, but not if he costs much to acquire.

525
What kind of package do you think it would take to get Jason Bay?

528
If we could package DeWitt, Meloan, and some prospects, then I would do it in a heartbeat.

525 It looks like we could use one more decent reliever. If it were me, I'd see if Elbert or Meloan could fill that role before I'd trade for anyone.

We could use another hitter off the bench, yes. Ideally, a well-constructed team should be able to use either its backup catcher or utility infielder as a pinch hitter. We can't do either. Again, if it were me, I wouldn't bother trying to acquire some PVL Sweeney-type who can't really hit. I wouldn't worry about acquiring someone who's proven they can pinch hit. I'd just worry about acquiring someone who can hit. Anyone who can hit can also pinch hit.

I would be partial to a Dallas MacPherson type in that role -- someone who was once highly thought of, but their moment passed, and now they're performing again and can be acquired at minimal cost. Tsao was sort of the pitching version of this.

527 Mora is probably a worse player than DeWitt at that point.

529 It would probably take real talent to get Bay at this point, I'm guessing similar to what it took to get Teixiera.

I think it is really galling to hear the sportstalk hosts in the afternoon breakdown the Dodgers. Yesterday on ESPN, Denholm and Long still saying the "Kids need to step up their game,no more talk of potential, it's put up or shut up time" when certain ones like Ethier, Laroche have been blocked and treated unfairly and now are supposed to ride the white horse in to save us! A clue to all those pundits and the spoon fed Plaschkeites, "it's been the overpriced, borken down vets that have dragged this team down this year, not the kids!" I thank God for our youthful core everyday and will be crossing my fingers from now until next Thursday evening that the "Dodgers braintrust" such as it is doesn't do anything stupid to mess it up! I'd rather have status quo and do nothing now than to trust Ned to make a judgment on a trade! I have a lump in my throat from even thinking about what damage could be done! Yikes!!

Shouldn't - or at least it sounded like - Dallas Mac be available fairly cheaply? How about trading a (if he's healthy) Proctor or another expendable pitcher for him?

Or Meloan.

529 I would too but sounds like it would take more than that. Maybe at the last minute the Pirates will get more desperate but with Bay I kind of doubt it.

530 McPherson would be interesting. I have no faith in him performing thanks to his absurd amount of strikeouts, but getting him for a PBTNL and replacing Sweeney with him would at least be an interesting move.

Actually, someone like Justin Ruggiano would be a good hitter off the bench for the Dodgers. He's got a .297/.356/.489 line in AAA this year and .290/,333/.452 in the majors.

Too bad we can't find players like that anywhere.

533 If the Marlins aren't going to call him up when he's OPSing 1.070, they have no intention of using him.

Yeah , we know what Wilson is. We don't know what Kemp or Bills might become. Maybe Young and Hu at the most. Don't make me sick.

Right, so shouldn't he be had pretty cheap? It's not NedCo's typical kind of move, though. Some of the players the Dodgers are rumored or linked to I wouldn't mind having on the team, or as backups, but at the cost they are asking for them, that's what scares me.

535 What happenned to Ragliani? I take it nothing good. We dumped Rugg in some awful deal, I can't remember what.

You could shake any AAA tree and a dozen guys better than Mark Sweeney would fall out. Ryan Shealy, just to name one example, would be better than Sweeney and could be had for peanuts.

Actually, MIKE Sweeney would be better than Mark Sweeney and could probably be had for peanuts. (He's on the DL but about to return.)

A few days old, but still somewhat amusing. From Tony Jackson:

>>One day after saying he always has a dry throat and is constantly thirsty when playing in Colorado - where he had 24 RBIs in 14 career games through Monday - Dodgers first baseman James Loney walked into the clubhouse and found that his teammates had left a gift at his locker. Neatly arrayed on a chair were four bottles of Powerade, eight bottles of Dasani water, seven throat lozenges, a bottle of Afrin and a packet of Gatorlytes electrolyte powder. <<

540 - Or a character from Peanuts would be better than Sweeney.

539 Raglani is enjoying his retirement from baseball after refusing an assignment to Jacksonville this spring.

I would like to go on record as predicting that Blalock will be the Dodger third baseman within the next week. I think Ned would be willing to give up what the Rangers would ask for him (it wouldn't be anyone near the top of our young phenom/prospect list) and it would bring some potential power to the lineup. I think by the time JP comes back, they will pretty much have given up on Andruw so they'll be looking for some more power, and I don't think they'll give LaRoche a chance to be that guy.

544 Tony Jackson's source said we have "NO" interest in Blalock.

538-540 If they can get some help to strengthen the bench that doesn't cost us any bright prospects, then I approve. Most teams always seem to ask for freshly grilled filet mignon from the Dodgers and give us "5 day old" chicken meat in return.

545 -

Who are you gonna believe? Me or Tony Jackson?

547 If it was Gurnick, I would've said you.

Speaking of Tony Jackson, he must not have been very happy to find out Plaschke wrote a column glorifying an elevator operator.

Do you think there are a lot of jocks walking around in awe of Ned Colletti's masculinity?

OPS+es of our bench guys (assuming LaRoche starts)

DeWitt - 79
Ozuna - 73
Delwyn - 70
Ardoin - 46
Berroa - 35

If Ned does nothing else, he needs to get a 90ish OPS+ guy for the bench. I'd even take a John Lindsey callup at this point. Building a semi competent bench should be easy to do, and the Dodgers are failing miserably at it.

The Pirates announcers are insisting that after Clay Hensley of the Padres gave up back to back homers to Jason Bay and Xavier Nady that he had never given up a homer in the majors.

I think they need to check last year's stats for Hensley.

Perhaps they will find out who gave up home run #755 to Barry Bonds.

Brad Halsey?

549 - Now that made me laugh!

Brad Halsey gave up homer #714.

Mike Bacsik?

I really should know better about challenging Bob.

The Pirates announcers corrected their mistake.

557
You could play me in chess.

Bob has also spent the last several years developing a resistance to Iocaine powder.

Scene from War Games II:

"Take us to Defcon Zzzzzzzz"

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/24/missile.error/index.html

550 -- Was that question for me, Andrew? Frankly, Colletti does strike me as a jock's kind of guy. Big, burly guy, kind of gruff, spouts all the usual sports cliches, likes hockey.

I realize that people aren't exactly buying what I am saying on this matter, but I think people are reading their own attitudes into an alpha male culture that is pretty different than the one most DT people belong to. Call it unreasonable all you like, but I don't think baseball players not wanting to play for a female GM is any more improbable than, say, American soldiers not wanting to train and fight along side gays. That WE think they shouldn't care is a question entirely different than whether THEY do care.

562
While there may be some players who respond to a female GM in the way you envision, I would guess that there would be a larger number of players (and their agents) who think that a female GM will be a pushover in negotiations such that the player/agent will be able to get whatever they want.

Baseball ownership's good old boys club = Female GM?

562 I've spent a lot of time in major league locker rooms. I've witnessed the, frankly, neanderthal culture to which you refer. I fully understand how pervasive it is. But I still don't think the presence of a female GM would affect a player's decision one iota.

Players care about stuff that affects them. A female GM wouldn't affect their day-to-day life in any meaningful way, and wouldn't impact their decision. Just as their general dislike of Ivy League pinheads doesn't dissuade them from wanting to play for the Red Sox or Rangers.

Oddest Neyer article ever. A puff piece on Brett Butler... except for the part where Neyer implies that he was a coke head in the 80's.

In the early 1980s, many baseball players were using cocaine. Some of them got into trouble, and a few of Brett's Kansas City teammates went to prison. Now, I'm not going to suggest that Brett was using cocaine, but I do know he was considered one of the hardest partiers in the Midwest at that time. Funny thing, though … Brett never got into any trouble. None that made the papers, anyway.

563

Ng already handles most of the Dodgers contracts anyway. She's the same person who kicked Eric Gagne's ass in Arbitration, twice. I doubt she has a rep of a wall flower.

Butler's long been a hypocrite with a capital H, but that's the first time I've seen that particular thing implied.

559 - how about chess boxing?

wasn't that piece about george brett?

Probably, since Butler was never a Royal.

Sorry, you're right. George Brett.

If Colletti gets fired, maybe he'll be the next Marlboro man.

Jim Edmonds in 2008

Padres: .178/.265/.233/.498
Cubs: .274/.371/.555/.926

Underdog--I don't want him, but I think we'll end up with Casey Blake. His versatility (3B, 1B, LF) makes him an easy Ned target. What would it take? Not sure. Perhaps Meloan and Hu.

Wow George Brett was a coke head, who would've ever guessed that?

(sniff, sniff) Is he gonna say the pine tar is too high on my bat...Is he...Is he...He did, he just (expletive)did....AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!(sniff, sniff) AAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

I heard a rumor that Ned Colletti is slated to portray Jack Palance in an upcoming biopic.

I heard a rumor that Ned Colletti is slated to portray Khan in a remake of "Star Trek II".

I heard a rumor that Ned Colletti is slated to portray Bill Paxton's smarmy car salesman in a remake of "True Lies".

In Canada, liking hockey is manly. In America, liking hockey is Canadian.

NPUT

580 In Russia, hockey likes you!