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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

State of the Pitching
2008-07-31 08:00
by Jon Weisman

The Dodger pitching staff on Trade Deadline Morning (with ERA+ figures for the starters):

Starting pitchers
145 Chad Billingsley
--Currently has the second-best ERA+ in Los Angeles Dodger history, minimum 375 innings.

119 Derek Lowe
--Slumps sometimes, has that bad inning here and there, but ranks 18th in the NL in ERA+ this season.

101 Hiroki Kuroda
--Billy Joel doesn't know why Kuroda goes to extremes, or why he couldn't come back from his recent slump unless he's hurt again.

98 Clayton Kershaw
--Has pitched effectively in five of 10 starts this season, and still has a better ERA+ than Greg Maddux.

320 Jason Johnson
--A sustained rebirth from Johnson would be a greater surprise than Chan Ho Park's 2008.

139 Eric Stults
--On paper, better than Johnson.

75 Brad Penny
--If he's healed – and it was reportedly just tendinitis, after all – why shouldn't he be effective?

--- James McDonald
--Has a 3.19 ERA, 113 strikeouts in 118 2/3 innings. How about trying out McDonald now, before he crosses the 150-inning limit, rather than waiting until September when he might be burned out?

--- Jason Schmidt
--Scenario: He's healthy September 28, throws one inning of relief, gets a division-clinching victory.

---Esteban Loaiza
--Hey, he's available - rock-bottom prices!

Relief pitchers
The Dodgers currently have five reliable relievers: Jonathan Broxton, Hong-Chih Kuo, Chan Ho Park, Joe Beimel and Cory Wade. Ramon Troncoso and Brian Falkenborg have been intermittently effective. The team has one of the best bullpens in the majors, even without Takashi Saito or (gulp) Scott Proctor. Some of the above starting pitchers could also pitch in relief if needed. Scott Elbert is also a candidate for a promotion, though his control is a concern.

If it were me, I would promote McDonald next week if Johnson needs replacement or Kuroda or Penny need more rest.

* * *

Tony Jackson of the Daily News has a follow-up on Tuesday's "out-of-play" ruling at Dodger Stadium.

... it isn't clear whether the ball went out of play when it hit the flat surface, when it appeared to roll off the flat surface toward the stands just before Lewis finally picked it up or when a fan in the front row might or might not have touched it.

The flat surface didn't exist before 2005, when several rows of premium seats were added down each line. The old wall was too narrow for a ball to land on top of it. But apparently, the ground rules - which Hamilton said vary from ballpark to ballpark - were never revised after that 2005 renovation to account for the difference.

(Former major-league outfielder Darryl Hamilton, now an on-field operations official for the commissioner's office), said the on-field operations staff discussed the play at length during its weekly conference call on Wednesday. He also said the Dodger Stadium ground rules would be updated to clarify whether the flat surface is in play or out of play.

Comments (708)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-07-31 08:06:47
1.   cargill06
It was just shocking to me that their 3rd base coach sent Castillo there. That is the single most bone-headed 3rd base coaching move I've seen this year.
2008-07-31 08:07:50
2.   D4P
320 Jason Johnson
--A sustained rebirth from Johnson would be a greater surprise than Chan Ho Park's 2008.

139 Eric Stults
--On paper, better than Johnson.

Billy Joel says that these are the time to remember, 'cause they will not last forever.

2008-07-31 08:10:51
3.   regfairfield
As much as it pains me to say this, Chan Ho probably warrants a mention as a starting candidate.
2008-07-31 08:13:08
4.   ibleedbloo
I wouldn't have guessed that Bills only trails Kevin Brown(?!?) in soon we forget.
2008-07-31 08:13:33
5.   Jon Weisman
3 - So does Kuo, for that matter, but I think the Dodgers may have resolved not to consider either for the rest of the year
2008-07-31 08:14:01
6.   Terry A
Tony Jackson's coverage of the possible Maddux deal notes that Maddux's bad numbers are a product of playing for a bad team.

No mention (probably because he didn't research it) of how horrible Maddux has been away from Petco this year.

2008-07-31 08:15:05
7.   KingKopitar
I had a dream last night that the Dodgers traded Andy Laroche for Esteban Loaiza and Matt Kemp for Chad Tracy.
2008-07-31 08:15:51
8.   Disabled List
Fitting to see Kuroda's ERA+ at almost exactly league-average. His up-and-down, great-one-start-horrible-the-next season has been driving me nuts, on both the Dodgers and my fantasy team.
2008-07-31 08:16:26
9.   OhioBlues12
3 - Why would it pain you to say that? Chan Ho has been great this season and every team is going to rely on more than the same five-man rotation to get them through the season. I am grateful that we have had some quality innings from Park, Stults and Johnson because players of their ilk are needed every season.
2008-07-31 08:21:13
10.   regfairfield
9 Because I still don't really believe in him and I haven't exactly been kind to him this year. Plus I considered Chan Ho to be somewhere around the number 12 starter this year, so I assumed we'd never see him.
2008-07-31 08:22:19
11.   underdog
When will you believe in him though, outta curiosity? September? (Or hopefully, October?) ;-)

3.5 hours to go folks. Go take a walk. We'll call you if anything happens.

2008-07-31 08:23:56
12.   D4P
Billy Joel asks (on Chan Ho's behalf), "What will it take til you believe in me, the way that I believe in you...?"
2008-07-31 08:26:07
13.   regfairfield
11 When his FIP and ERA actually are kind of close to each other. I'm still really scared his regression to the mean will happen at the worst possible time.
2008-07-31 08:26:53
14.   Jon Weisman
So how do you guys feel about my McDonald in August suggestion?
2008-07-31 08:27:19
15.   OhioBlues12
10 - That's too bad. I think we get caught up heaping too much support behind either great veterans or high ceiling young players. I don't think enough attention is paid to those journeymen that really do have value of the course of the season as we have seen. The team has to turn to somebody at various points during a season and I think it is great that we have gotten so much out of several guys who were not given a second thought at the beginning of the season.
2008-07-31 08:31:56
16.   underdog
14 I'm all for it, but doubtful it's going to happen. But maybe, if they don't end up acquiring Maddux after all and need a fresh arm at some point in August, it's possible. (But they might just call Stults back up for that.)

Sounds like the Griffey trade's a go. For two middling prospects, might be money involved. Could be his last chance for a ring (in a box).

2008-07-31 08:32:47
17.   regfairfield
14 I'm for it. We need to save some of Kershaw's innings for later.

15 The problem is that you don't really know when Chan Ho, Aaron Sele or Jose Lima is going to revert back to form. I just can't believe that journeymen suddenly figure it all out, the collapse is usually inevitable. Torre pulling Chan Ho from the rotation before it happens is a really great move.

2008-07-31 08:33:49
18.   Disabled List
14 I'd rather see McDonald make some August starts instead of Stults, or even Jason Johnson, but Brad Penny is the X factor. I'm hoping he can return in August, because we'll need him to be close to his old level of performance for the stretch run.
2008-07-31 08:35:50
19.   Xeifrank
It would be interesting to see the ERA+ numbers from members of the bullpen, as well as some stat that shows the volatility/up and down starts from Kuroda. His ERA+ is right around league average, but he sure has taken a wild path of getting there.
vr, Xei

Disclaimer: This post was brought to you by where you can talk baseball and all sports with Billingsley fans and more... free!

2008-07-31 08:37:17
20.   Xeifrank
14. Do we have an opening in the rotation? If we do then it's no worse than trading for Maddux.
vr, Xei
2008-07-31 08:38:41
21.   OhioBlues12
17 - I don't think it is about figuring it all out. I think it is about getting quality innings out of players that were summarily disregarded at a time when the team needs it. We are not looking for long-term projection out of these players, just short-term gain which we have gotten in spades.
2008-07-31 08:38:51
22.   regfairfield
FLAKE - Standard deviation of per-start SNVA for each pitcher. This was previously shown as the variance, and was used to compute the "flakiest" pitchers.

1. Hiroki Kuroda

2008-07-31 08:40:44
23.   alex 7
Chan Ho Park's HR/inn. are about career-average. His K's are up there at 58 over 70 innings. Giving up a hit an inning. Solid control. Fastball's in the low 90s. Martin may or may not be impacting his staff in a positive way with his pitch calling. I don't see a reason to worry too much.

Park's ERA may finish in the low 3s instead of it's current 2.42 ERA, which will mean a few bumpy outings, but still better than his 4.2 career mark.

2008-07-31 08:41:14
24.   regfairfield
21 The problem is that these guys are known useless players. You can't predict how Brandon Webb is going to do in the short term, and you definately can't predict how some journeyman will do. Sometimes you end up with Chan Ho, sometimes you get Scott Erickson.
2008-07-31 08:41:46
25.   Jon Weisman
19 -

242 Hong-Chih Kuo
183 Chan Ho Park
252 Joe Beimel
139 Jonathan Broxton
159 Cory Wade
85 Brian Falkenborg
78 Ramon Troncoso
203 Takashi Saito
65 Scott Proctor
--- Scott Elbert

2008-07-31 08:42:38
26.   alex 7
also, Park is facing lineups like the Padres', Giants', and Diamondbacks' fairly often. He can get those guys out.
2008-07-31 08:43:28
27.   Xeifrank
22. Where did you find the list?
vr, Xei
2008-07-31 08:46:12
28.   whodat807
23 Doesn't Chan Ho's fastball touch 94-97 MPH? In the past few years, his fastball's been junk, and it's nice to see him regain some of the strength and stuff that he had earlier in his career.
2008-07-31 08:46:19
29.   Disabled List
Some Greg Maddux home/away splits:

IP: 73.0/61.1
ERA: 2.84/6.02
OPSA: .649/.842
BABIP: .245/.353
K/BB: 2.85/2.83

His strikeout-to-walk ratio is almost identical at Petco or on the road. But look at that disparity in BABIP.

Might not be the worst acquisition, if Ned can get him cheaply enough.

2008-07-31 08:47:17
30.   OhioBlues12
24 - Clearly they have not been useless. Park was injured for several seasons and is now healthy and throwing with increased velocity. I see no reason to believe that he won't be effective for the rest of the season. Johnson and Stults are a likely not more than #5 starters but they have given us better than #5 results when called upon.
2008-07-31 08:48:39
31.   larry slimfast
I wonder... would Maddux accept a role in the bullpen? He just seems like a valuable asset on so many other levels.
2008-07-31 08:49:00
32.   whodat807
Griffey apparently OKed the deal to the ChiSox. I'm not sure how much he'll help Chicago, but I'm glad there's a chance we'll see Junior in the postseason this year.
2008-07-31 08:49:58
33.   overkill94
25 It's kind of surprising how much higher Kuo and Beimel's ERA+'s are than Broxton's. I realize the guy's not quite at his usual pace, but he still has a very solid 3.18 normal ERA. What goes into ERA+ anyway?
2008-07-31 08:50:06
34.   Bob Timmermann
I would picture Maddux as a pretty poor reliever. He doesn't come out like a house afire when he pitches.
2008-07-31 08:50:35
35.   Eric Stephen
I have a feeling we'll be calling the time as we get closer to 1pm, much like Vin Scully in Koufax's perfect game ("9:46pm...").
2008-07-31 08:51:23
36.   D4P
I picture Maddux as a pretty poor starter.
2008-07-31 08:51:45
37.   whodat807
24 I would think that if Chan Ho was still the 'useless player' he was during his exile from Dodger Stadium, he'd have shown it by now. Surely, going into August, we've long since exited small sample size territory?
2008-07-31 08:51:54
38.   overkill94
32 Quentin to the Dodgers for Pierre and Lowe

Maddux to the Dodgers for some C prospect

Chicago's log-jam in the outfield is fixed and they finally get that starting pitcher they've been looking for! ;)

2008-07-31 08:51:54
39.   Suffering Bruin
14 Worth a shot. Provided there's a spot for him (Penny's not back, Kuroda is banged up, etc.) I have no objection to McDonald getting a shot.
2008-07-31 08:52:01
40.   Eric Stephen
It's just ERA adjusted for park effects and compared to the league. 100 is average.
2008-07-31 08:52:09
41.   larry slimfast
maddux does have mildly better numbers early in the pitch count... but don't we all?
2008-07-31 08:53:50
42.   regfairfield
27 BP custom report.
2008-07-31 08:55:19
43.   overkill94
36 Maddux looked like a fairly poor bet when we got him from the Cubs in '06 and he proved to be quite a spark. There could be something to the notion that he focuses a bit more when he's in the middle of a pennant race.
2008-07-31 08:55:39
44.   Kevin Lewis

I miss the Appetizer in PV. Their submarine sandwich was awesome, but the last time I went they no longer used the marinated lettuce in the Italian changed the whole sandwich for me. I was very sad.

2008-07-31 08:57:06
45.   Suffering Bruin
35 Every hour, on the hour, one of us does a Vin imitation of the countdown... who's with me?
2008-07-31 08:57:38
46.   goofus
Bottom line, I do not trust Kuroda, I'd trade him in a heartbeat if I could get return value. I think he has great abilities and if everything goes well, he's near perfect. But errors and freak happenings shake him too much. Maybe the phrase is "lose concentration" but whatever, his effectiveness is gone. Players used to call this "having rabbit ears". Broxton may, I say may, have the same problem, it is not uncommon. I remember a Dodger game, playoffs or World Series, where Burt Hooten blew up. He thought the umpire missed a call or two on him and he completely lost it, couldn't throw a strike at all. He never completed the first inning.
2008-07-31 09:00:55
47.   regfairfield
37 You can keep things up for a while if you're lucky. Kyle Kendrick went all of last year on fairy dust.
2008-07-31 09:02:48
48.   LAT
No Maddux. He will do to us what Glavin did to the Mets on the last day of'07.
2008-07-31 09:03:35
49.   OhioBlues12
47 - Then what is the problem? A while is better than nothing at all and it is not like we are placing the future of the franchise on their shoulders, we have other players for those honors.
2008-07-31 09:06:25
50.   Eric Stephen
It's 9:06am. One for one with Kevin Towers. Ned looks in, and here's his pitch. Aguasviva to the Padres!
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-07-31 09:07:41
51.   Disabled List
Either the Dodgers just traded for Brett Favre, or I've gone bleary-eyed from watching too much ESPN.
2008-07-31 09:07:43
52.   Wilbert Robinson
14 - I listened to parts of McDonald's start last night and it sounded like he was really laboring. He had some command issues and gave up a lot of line drives but maybe it was just a bad outing because he had a pretty good July (in spite of a sharp decline in his k/bb). One thing to keep in mind is that he has already thrown 118 innings. Last year he threw 134 total. But nevertheless I'd love to see him pitch for the Dodgers this year.

McDonald K/BB:
PreJuly 3.1
July 1.25

Avg. 5.4 IP per start on the year.

2008-07-31 09:07:54
53.   Jon Weisman
27 - Just the Dodgers' Baseball-Reference team page.
2008-07-31 09:08:13
54.   Suffering Bruin
"What's that old saying? 'It gets late early out here?' That was from Yogi Berra and for Dodger fans, it's been late for days now--the trading deadline is a mere four hours away but for most of us, it may as well seem like four days. So many rumors, too many to mention, the latest being Matt Kemp being part of a package to go east while Manny Ramirez comes west to the Dodgers--we read that on in an article by Jon Heyman, not to be confused with that sage of the internet, the all-knowing and all-powerful Jon Weisman but that's another story. For now, Dodger fans are sitting on pins and needles waiting, just waiting because that's all they can do until something--or nothing--happens. Until 1pm, if not sooner..."

My bad imitation of Vinny, counting down to the trade deadline. Back in an hour.

2008-07-31 09:10:17
55.   cargill06
46 He hasn't been giving up HR's or walking many people. I just chalk last 4 or 5 starts to tough luck. He'll be fine.
2008-07-31 09:10:27
56.   briano
If for no other reason, Maddux would again be great to have on the bench as another pitching coach for the young guys. He will also rise to the heat of the battle to be on a contender again. Dodgers should have never gotten rid of him in the first place. Off topic but I really need to know: Where is Rick Monday? I hear Steve Lyons now on the radio. What happened to Mo? Forgive the random off topic. But I gotta know.
2008-07-31 09:12:00
57.   Xeifrank
Sorted by FIP, which only takes into account things like HR, SO and BB. vr, Xei

Saito 1.82
Troncoso 1.90 (.Note: .383 babip)
Guo 1.95
Broxton 2.37
Billingsley 3.15
Beimel 3.25
Lowe 3.41
Kuroda 3.86
Johnson 3.98
Wade 4.03
Park 4.07
Kershaw 4.23
Penny 4.66
Stults 4.73
Falkenborg 5.09
Proctor 5.33

To me, this list shows just how great Billingsley is. His FIP is 4th in the NL (also 4th in the NL West), behind Haren (2.78), Lincecum (2.82) and Webb 3.01), based on min 100 IPs. FWIW, the 5th and 6th are also NL West pitchers (Peavy, Lowe... excluding Sabathia). Also what stands out is how well Troncoso has pitched. His peripherals are outstanding and has taken a beating from a .383 BABIP against.
vr, Xei

2008-07-31 09:16:56
58.   regfairfield
It seems like having Maddux as a pitching coach is like having Vince Young do color commentary.

"Well the quarterback got a little pressure here, so he obviously should have ran it 80 yards to the house"

Maddux is one of the greatest control pitchers ever, does his stuff work if you can't throw all of your pitches exactly where you want them?

2008-07-31 09:19:44
59.   cargill06
57 I asked this question on Sat and never really got an answer.

Isn't K/9IP a bad way to measure how effective a strikeout pitcher someone is? Wouldn't strikeout % be more effective?

The example I use is a guy pitches 6 innings gives up 7 hits and 2 walks but k's 7. That's a 10.5 K/9IP ratio, but K'd 26% of the batters faced. Another guy k's 6 in 6, but gives up 1 hit and 0 walks. His K rate is 9 K/9IP, but k's 31.5% of the batters faced.

Wouldn't that skew some FIP's one way or another?

2008-07-31 09:19:56
60.   MC Safety
Long Beach would love to see James McDonald in August.
2008-07-31 09:23:37
61.   Greg Brock
Happy Trade Deadline Day everybody!

Observe it a manner consistent with your religious faith.

2008-07-31 09:24:33
62.   JoeyP
Was a 100 ERA+ the break even point for the Kuroda Accords?

Or was it higher?

2008-07-31 09:24:58
63.   Bob Timmermann
I shall spend the day venerating the Virgin Mary and drinking sacramental wine out of a paper cup.
2008-07-31 09:26:33
64.   delias man
Redondo Beach would also love to see McDonald in August.
2008-07-31 09:27:18
65.   Bob Timmermann
I loved the ending of Mark T.R. Donohue's latest Bad Altitude post:

"In order to make this a successful road trip, the Rockies have to win a series in Miami. That'll be a tall order considering that Colorado is starting not one but two former Brewers with "De" in their last names in the series."

2008-07-31 09:27:23
66.   Greg Brock
63 Light a candle for me, Bob!

Also, if one is near Palos Verdes, one might as well schlep to San Pedro for a delicious sandwich from Busy Bee's.

Best. Sammiches. Ever.

2008-07-31 09:28:21
67.   ToyCannon
Unless Penny has a setback I see no reason for McDonald. McDonald may be better in the long term but I doubt that if he was put in the rotation today he would fair any better then Johnson, Stults, or Park.

Andrew you must have watched Park pitch quite a bit this year. He is throwing quality stuff, and his peripherals have been climbing all year.

He kind of reminds me of Alvarez who was washed up with a history of arm injuries when we gave him one more shot. He was finally healthy and his once solid stuff returned. As long as Wilson was healthy he produced for us. If Chan Ho was throwing 88-90 will little movement I'd understand your concern but I see a nasty fastball and his command is solid enough that he has become a solid member of the pitching staff. I know you hate to be wrong, but it is July 30th and he is not going to turn into a pumpkin. He still may have a rough outing or two as even someone as talented as Broxton will but I'm sold and have been for several months.

2008-07-31 09:28:29
68.   Bob Timmermann
Candles are $5.
2008-07-31 09:30:32
69.   D4P
Religious freedom isn't free.
2008-07-31 09:32:03
70.   Bob Timmermann
I can get Greg Brock a deal on indulgences though.
2008-07-31 09:33:25
71.   whodat807
Here's a deadline day issue that I've been wondering about since I was a kid: Who's job is it to photoshop a player's new team's uniform onto their MLB stock photo on ESPN broadcasts? Do you think they just pasted a hat and a uniform on top of his old photo?
2008-07-31 09:34:01
72.   Xeifrank
59. =((HR*13 + Walks*3 - SO*2)/IP) + 3.2

Your example 1 yields a FIP of...
((0 + 6 - 14) / 6) + 3.2
FIP = 1.87

Example 2 yields a FIP of...
((0 + 0 - 12) / 6) + 3.2
FIP = 1.20

So yes, the second pitcher will have a lower expected ERA based on FIP. Keep in mind that your example is extreme as it's based on only one outing (small sample size). vr, Xei

2008-07-31 09:34:56
73.   ToyCannon
The White Sox trade is a real head scratcher. Thome is on fire so he can't DH. The three outfielders have all performed much better then Griffy and they have a possible MVP candidate in Quentin. Can't bench Dye or Swisher.

Is Konerko done and they are going to move Swisher to 1st and Griffey to CF? Yikes

2008-07-31 09:34:58
74.   Greg Brock
70 I know a guy in the indulgences district.
2008-07-31 09:35:30
75.   Xeifrank
65. Bob, I thought you of all people would've caught that it should've been "de", not "De". :)
vr, Xei
2008-07-31 09:35:32
76.   ToyCannon
Has anyone ever been traded for a Class A player and then been the MVP the following year? Or any minor leaguer for that matter in a one on one deal?
2008-07-31 09:35:38
77.   Eric Stephen
The Kuroda Accord©
< 125IP ERA+ 96

break even
125IP-150IP ERA+ 96-106

150+IP ERA+ 106+

© Nate Purcell Industries, 2007

2008-07-31 09:35:43
78.   jasonungar07
"When you have young players, even if with the player you can get, you may not want to give up a young player who isn't as good as he's going to be," said Torre. "Those are the ground rules. Matt Kemp is good now and in a couple years he'll be special. Kemp may be better than the guy you're going to get, and that guy probably is making a ton of money. That's just good business sense there."


2008-07-31 09:36:19
79.   Xeifrank
73. "Yes" to your last sentence.
vr, Xei
2008-07-31 09:36:37
80.   ToyCannon
Alen Davidian
2008-07-31 09:36:49
81.   underdog
Alert: Don Mattingly will be on Jim Rome at the top of the 2nd hour of his show. Which is in a half hour here at least.
2008-07-31 09:37:54
82.   Bob Timmermann
It was cutting and pasting.
2008-07-31 09:38:21
83.   regfairfield
73 At this point I have to believe he's insurance for when Thome makes his annual trip to the DL. Quentin/Griffey/Dye would give Manny/Ross/Willingham a run for it's money in defensive incompetence, which would really hurt Danks and Vazquez.
2008-07-31 09:39:22
84.   Suffering Bruin
78 I'm off to go buy a Joe Torre poster.
2008-07-31 09:39:22
85.   ToyCannon
Seems like a lot of money for break even. Kyle Lohse is having a season that I did not think was in him.
2008-07-31 09:39:28
86.   Eric Stephen
That's just good business sense there

I know it was an overall good point by Torre, but for some reason I can't read that without thinking Ron Burgundy saying "Its Science."

2008-07-31 09:40:46
87.   underdog
73 Yeah that one's a real head scratcher, I agree.

61 I'll be holding a silent meditation followed by a reading from the Old Testament in Hebrew, particularly Logan 15:6, in which the patriarch Colletti is warned about trading thine youth.

2008-07-31 09:41:08
88.   briano
Nothing on Rick Monday? Anybody know what happened to Mo? Has he been relegated to announcing only away games?
2008-07-31 09:41:26
89.   Who Is Karim Garcia
I, for one, welcome our trade deadline overlords.
2008-07-31 09:41:59
90.   ToyCannon
Given the size of the Marlin outfield, I would be afraid to take the mound if Willingham/Manny were allowed to be in the same outfield. It would be like having two Greg Luzinski's.
2008-07-31 09:42:37
91.   Kevin Lewis
what does cash in the back pocket have to do with pitching machines?

Busy Bee is good, but I also like Lighthouse Cafe in San Pedro. Amazing BBQ beef sandwich on a toasted roll mmmmmmmmm

2008-07-31 09:42:57
92.   JoeyP
85-->12 mils does seem pretty high amount for a league average pitcher.
2008-07-31 09:43:15
93.   Xeifrank
88. Wasn't he going to the White House to commemorate his flag saving play? Not sure when that was scheduled, but Lyons sure is brutal on the radio.
vr, Xei
2008-07-31 09:43:32
94.   Eric Stephen
Seems like a lot of money for break even

Are you saying Kuroda's AB music should be "You Wreck Me" by Tom Petty? :)

It's valuable to be average. So far, there are only 60 starters in MLB this year with 100 IP and a 100 ERA+.

2008-07-31 09:44:27
95.   Marty
I'm off to Lou Mitchell's in Chicago. Best omelets I've run into in my travels.
2008-07-31 09:44:35
96.   Kevin Lewis

I will cast my vote for the third party.

2008-07-31 09:45:06
97.   Xeifrank
92. $12Mil should give you around 2.5 win above replacement, right?
vr, Xei
2008-07-31 09:45:17
98.   underdog
Huh, this sounds familiar. (From MLBTR:)

"The Rays appear unlikely to make a trade, by the way. Perhaps they're cursed by their own loaded farm system."

2008-07-31 09:46:16
99.   adrian beltre
from will carroll at bp:

The Red Sox, on the other hand, will try to deal Manny Ramirez even if the Pirates fall out. They can't do a deal to just the Marlins, but the Dodgers and one other mystery team have been contacted. The Dodgers are thought to be offering Matt Kemp.

i have a bad feeling this is going to happen.

2008-07-31 09:46:41
100.   Bob Timmermann
Rick Monday was at the White House over two weeks ago. Did he end up getting a Cabinet position without us knowing about it?

Should we ask Sam DC if Monday is going to be a new U.S. attorney for some place?

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-07-31 09:46:43
101.   Gilberto Reyes
14 Jon, thank you for recognizing that McDonald is worthy of a shot with the big club this year. I have been pushing that idea on this site since late May. I don't think it was wrong to promote Kershaw, but at the time, McDonald seemed like an appropriate choice as well. James has been solid all year and deserves a look. And the idea of promoting him now, when his innings are still low, and when the team could actually use a starter makes more sense. Also, he would be able to debut without putting him through the additional September playoff run pressure. Stults and Johnson made their contributions. Let's give McDonald a chance.
2008-07-31 09:48:02
102.   cargill06
72 My point being, is when we look at stikeout pitchers the stat that is always brought up is K/9IP. Wouldn't K% be a much more effective measure?
2008-07-31 09:48:08
103.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Any conjecture about the Dodgers ending up with a SS?
2008-07-31 09:48:34
104.   underdog
99 We talked about that earlier. Will Carroll is the only one mentioning that, and even he admits his sources are sometimes meshugganah. It's possible, but most likely was something the Sox inquired about, just as every team that talks to the Dodgers likes to ask about Kemp. I wouldn't trust that one.

But that doesn't mean I won't feel better in 3 hours and it hasn't happened.

2008-07-31 09:48:37
105.   Eric Stephen
Monday is the new Secretary of Flag Protection.
2008-07-31 09:49:25
106.   regfairfield
90 Numbers since 2007

Manny: -39
Ross: +6 (didn't see that coming)
Willingham: -16 (in left)

Quentin: -6
Griffey: -19 (was -26 in center in 2006)
Dye: -43 (somehow was -41 last year according to the "enchanced" +/- they rank with)

2008-07-31 09:49:33
107.   Bob Timmermann
Scott Akasaki and Billy DeLury are taking self-defense courses to get ready for MannyB.
2008-07-31 09:49:55
108.   Eric Stephen
Will Carroll is also probably mentioning the Dodgers are in the market to replace an injured Chad Billingsley. :)
2008-07-31 09:50:35
109.   Bob Timmermann
But Monday would always get invited to the State of the Union address because they just wouldn't care if something happened to him.
2008-07-31 09:50:54
110.   regfairfield
92 Yeah, but if we didn't have him we'd be giving the ball to Stults right now. At least he's helping the cause.
2008-07-31 09:50:57
111.   D Prouty
I keep hearing the White Sox are shopping around Orlando Cabrera. Should we be going after him?

14 - I could see McDonald joining LA sometime, especially if Kershaw remains inconsistent. I'm not saying swap one for the other, but possibly alternating starts or going back to a 6 man rotation to conserve innings for both. Although in the wake of Johnson's start on Tuesday, Torre will probably keep him in the rotation long enough to have his ERA jump to 8.00 as to block McDonald. Here's hoping Penny comes back OK.

2008-07-31 09:51:34
112.   Who Is Karim Garcia

You're talk about K% was interesting, though I'd be lying if I said that I fully understood the implications.

2008-07-31 09:51:43
113.   JoeyP
Dodgers get: Manny & Clay Bucholz
Red Sox get: Matt Kemp & Joe Beimel

Do you do that deal?

2008-07-31 09:53:20
114.   goofus
Pierre and La Roche to the Red Sox; Manny to Cincinnati; Adam Dunn to the Dodgers. The Red Sox pick up both Manny's and Pierre's salary.
2008-07-31 09:54:36
115.   JoeyP
Actually, I'd force the Red Sox to take Juan Pierre's entire contract if I was making the above deal:

Dodgers get: Manny, Bucholz, & prospect
Red Sox get: Kemp, Pierre, & Beimel

Trading Kemp would be tough, but you'd get out of Pierre's contract plus get a high ceiling starter like Bucholz back. Not to mention Manny to help win in the short-term.

2008-07-31 09:54:42
116.   adrian beltre
104 sorry about that, i hate recycling old conversations. i just think it would be so fitting that the hitter i have most often heard his ceiling compared to be the guy they trade him for. plus i promised id get his jersey on any team he is traded to, and i really dont want a red sox jersey.
2008-07-31 09:55:59
117.   Who Is Karim Garcia

I don't. Kemp is under our control for more years at a lesser price and possible more production. The addition of Clay is intriguing, but our pitching depth in the organization is enough so that I'm not jumping at him.


Dream come true, but there is little to no way at all that the Boston would pick up ALL that salary.

2008-07-31 09:56:37
118.   JoeyP
Boston's not going to deal Manny without getting a good hitting OF'er back.
2008-07-31 09:57:35
119.   cargill06
112 I don't know the implications either, but take a look at Maddux's 95 season

181 K's in 209.2 IP, for 7.8 K/9IP nothing too impressive. But take into account he only walked 23 guys, and gave up 147 hits. If you looked at his K% I would be it's higher than some guys with over 9 K/9IP that season.

2008-07-31 09:57:42
120.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Just for giggles, which would you want back...

Shane Victorino
Cody Ross

2008-07-31 09:57:59
121.   regfairfield
115 I think the first deal is pretty fair, but it just takes us down to one competent outfielder above A ball in 2009 while it gives us more of our biggest strength.
2008-07-31 09:58:31
122.   jasonungar07
lol for Eric {86}

Torre Burgundy: When you have young players, even if with the player you can get, you may not want to give up a young player who isn't as good as he's going to be

Ned Corningstone: No, there's no way that's correct.

Torre Burgundy: Those are the ground rules. Matt Kemp is good now and in a couple years he'll be special. Kemp may be better than the guy you're going to get, and that guy probably is making a ton of money. That's just good business sense there."

Ned Corningstone: Doesn't it mean Trade Him?

Torre Burgundy: No. No.

Veronica Corningstone: No, that's - that's what it means. Really.

Torre Burgundy: Agree to disagree.

2008-07-31 09:59:26
123.   Bumsrap
I am guessing that Colletti could get Maddux cheaply if the Dodgers picked up all of his salary remaining for the year. I am also guessing McCourt is getting smarter and won't let Colletti increase payroll, especially on a player that has at best a 50/50 chance of helping.

If Colletti really wants Maddux then he can trade like salary for him. Maybe someone like Pierre. That gives him more money to go after Sabathia next year. And, as bad as Jones is hitting, I think the Dodgers are a better team with Jones playing instead of Pierre along side Ethier and Kemp.

2008-07-31 09:59:47
124.   underdog
Peter Gammons says the three-way Manny deal is close to dead. It may not make sense for Boston.

And Jason Bay is in the mix for Toronto, too(!) Weird times, man, weird times.

2008-07-31 10:01:19
125.   Who Is Karim Garcia

Agreed that looking at his walk and hits are important as is his K rate, but couldnt we just look at WHIP for that.

2008-07-31 10:01:25
126.   goofus
117 They are paying Cincy to take Manny, they are getting LeRoche to pick up Pierre's salary. It's not like they can't afford it, or even may trade him away anyhow.
2008-07-31 10:02:00
127.   cargill06
Maddux in 95, 7.8 K/9IP 23.0% K%
Burnett this year, 9.2 K/9IP, 23.1%

K/9IP is a major factor to figuring FIP, why should someone be penalized because they face less hitters per 9?

2008-07-31 10:02:30
128.   fanerman
When is the trade deadline over?
2008-07-31 10:02:46
129.   underdog
116 Oh no worries! Just wanted to catch you up. I think all of us were at least briefly worried about it but I'm not taking it too seriously... {{bite nails}}
2008-07-31 10:02:48
130.   CanuckDodger
You guys in the US probably haven't heard about this yet, but a pretty grisly news story is the talk of Canada right now. Late last night, on a Greyhound bus from Edmonton bound for Winnipeg, a man took out a butcher's knife and killed his sleeping seatmate, stabbing him repeatedly. The driver and other passengers fled in terror, and the killer was later seen through the bus's windows holding up his victim's severed head like a trophy.
2008-07-31 10:03:58
131.   underdog
10:03 AM, less than three hours to go and everyone here today can breathe a sigh of relief.

Colletti hits a little nubber! And it's just foul. We'll do it all over again.

2008-07-31 10:04:29
132.   KG16
113/115 - I wouldn't make either of those deals. reg is right in 121, it means the Bums would have to rebuild their outfield completely or hope that their pitchers didn't allow anything out of the in field.

Right now, I can't see trading Kemp for anything short of a superstar in his prime (Manny should be on the decline).

2008-07-31 10:06:04
133.   D4P
Ethan Martin, the Dodgers' first-round draft pick in June's draft will undergo season-ending knee surgery. Martin, who the Dodgers now plan on using as a pitcher instead of a third baseman, reportedly injured his knee during fielding drills. The severity of the injury is unknown.
2008-07-31 10:06:59
134.   JoeyP
Dodgers last two 1st rounders have been cursed.

Has Withrow threw a professional pitch yet?

2008-07-31 10:07:11
135.   Eric Stephen
Best segue ever
2008-07-31 10:08:00
136.   regfairfield
134 He threw like seven innings last year.
2008-07-31 10:08:03
137.   Bumsrap
Torre doesn't have enough players if he wants to shore up the defense in the 8th and 9th innings and be able to pinch hit. Kent and Nomar already come out and if Manny is in left, he should be on the bench for the late innings if games are close and the Dodgers have the lead. Billingsley doesn't have his shutout and the Dodgers don't necessarily win if Manny or Pierre were in left last night.
2008-07-31 10:08:06
138.   fanerman
132 Right now, I can't see trading Kemp for anything short of a superstar in his prime (Manny should be on the decline).

I concur.

2008-07-31 10:09:08
139.   fanerman
130 Wow that's absolutely frightening =/
2008-07-31 10:09:23
140.   cargill06
Reg, where is the flaws in my question in 127 ?
2008-07-31 10:09:25
141.   underdog
133 Yikes. Bummer.

Where's that from?

Okay, DON MATTINGLY! Live on Jim Rome.

2008-07-31 10:09:48
142.   cargill06
130 ya, that's absolutley horrible
2008-07-31 10:10:04
143.   DodgerBakers
88 I thought I heard Steiner say earlier this week that Monday was on vacation.
2008-07-31 10:10:54
144.   Greg Brock
The Dodgers are holding out hope for a Brad Penny market, and one of the clubs they're watching is the Detroit Tigers. But Jim Leyland insists that Tim Byrdak will be back soon from his contused fingernail, and that Bobby Seay can at least do a loud job resembling a chimpanzee while he fills in.

Ken's random Diamond Notes generator is good for what ails ya on this day.

2008-07-31 10:11:10
145.   regfairfield
140 I'm thinking about it. My initial thoughts are K/9 is simply easier to compute, and that K/9 plays into the idea that all non home run hits are mainly luck so you shouldn't get punished by them.
2008-07-31 10:11:12
146.   Bumsrap
130 - Give them back their hockey teams, now.
2008-07-31 10:12:18
147.   ToyCannon
If would be fitting if the Bay deal is dead for Boston but somehow Tampa finagles a deal for him. If McGee hadn't gone down with TJ they would have more to offer. It is close to the Dodger scenario last winter where I think we would have a better shot at Miggy if Elbert had not gone down with shoulder problems.

Toronto could use some offense but what could they offer the Pirates? Travis Snider? Why would Toronto bother? They can't jump 2 teams with McGowan gone for the year.

2008-07-31 10:13:06
148.   Tripon
Chad Billingsley tosses his first career shutout with a five-hitter despite this pre-game interview...

Leung: How's it going?

Billingsley: Good.

Leung: Proceeds to next question

Billingsley: I'm starting.

Leung: Covers mouth

2008-07-31 10:13:16
149.   fanerman
144 Good idea!
2008-07-31 10:16:57
150.   natepurcell

That sucks a lot.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-07-31 10:17:20
151.   wronghanded
145 Wouldn't K% just be Ks/BF?
2008-07-31 10:17:47
152.   Greg Brock
149 The Dodgers feel they have a competitive pen with Ramon Troncoso and Hong-Chih Kuo, but they need Jonathan Broxton, whose obsession with graham crackers was in danger of becoming a distraction, to return to last year's level.

Oh Noes!!!!

2008-07-31 10:18:51
153.   cargill06
151 right.
2008-07-31 10:18:53
154.   ToyCannon
Humans are still monkeys. Make enough movies showing the exact same thing and someone, somewhere will mimic it.
2008-07-31 10:20:31
155.   sporky
mark (chicago): With all the conflicting reports out there, all baseball journalists need to take a breath and try to not sacrifice accuracy for speed. They really aren't doing their jobs and appear to be mouthpiecess of various organizations. I know * has lost all credibility to me already.

SportsNation Jim Callis: (1:04 PM ET ) I deleted the writer's name . . . but yes, I agree with the point. There's such a rush to be first that accuracy gets sacrificed last night, and that's not good. I went to bed last night after reading that a Manny Ramirez deal was on Bud Selig's desk for approval, and that obviously wasn't the case.

2008-07-31 10:20:50
156.   underdog
Mattingly's comments on The Andruw Jones Question on Jim Rome were most illuminating. You should give it a listen later if it's rerun or is on line later.

But the upshot of it is that he compared the situation to when Jason Giambi first came to NY and he worked with Giambi and said after his knee problems Giambi was a total mess, his swing was a mess and he was pressing because he was in a new place. It took a lot of time but he got better. He attributes a lot of Jones' problems to pressing in a new place and having lost all confidence after a slow start. He said if Jones got off to the same start in the comfort of Atlanta they'd seen that before so he'd press less because they'd be after him less and there weren't all these new expectations. He said his swing was a mess but he's working with him and Jones is working hard every day. He doesn't believe he's "lost it," after Rome asked him that.

2008-07-31 10:21:28
157.   wronghanded
153 I agree with what you're saying, K% is more important than K/9.
2008-07-31 10:21:46
158.   regfairfield
I got the answer now. The reason you evaluate based on perhiperals instead of runs allowed is because it takes out two factors: BABIP, and team defense. K% rewards pitchers who have low BABIPs (so they face less batters) and who have a strong defense behind them who can turn more balls in play into outs.
2008-07-31 10:22:25
159.   underdog
Mattingly also had thoughts on the Dodgers' young hitters but there wasn't that much new there. They have talent, some of them were just "go up there and hack" mentality and had to learn more patience, but they're doing well and are talented and blah blah.
2008-07-31 10:22:37
160.   Tripon
Arthur Rhodes' last game with the Mariners resulted in an ejection. Now the left-handed reliever has been thrown into a pennant race with the Florida Marlins.

Rhodes, 38, has been traded by the Mariners to Florida for pitching prospect Gaby Hernandez.

2008-07-31 10:23:32
161.   Eric Stephen
The ease of figuring K/9 is a major selling point. You have to dig a little deeper to find batters faced.

There isn't much difference between the K/9 leaders and K% leaders. Of the 110 MLB pitchers with 100 IP this year, 88 of them are within 5 rank spots of their positions on both lists. For instance, Edinson Volquez ranks 3rd in K/9 but 4th in K%, so he is 1 rank spot off. The top guys are all in essentially the same spots on both lists, with a little variation.

2008-07-31 10:23:32
162.   Xeifrank
127. K% takes into account balls put in play, which in a small sample size can be very luck based. A pitcher who gives up 10 bloop singles vs a pitcher who had all those bloop hits hit at somebody for outs will have very different K%, but will have the same FIP.
vr, Xei
2008-07-31 10:24:09
163.   underdog
Yeah, Rhodes was ejected after arguing with ump about a questionable ball call (it did look like a strike, but of course you're never going to win that one). Seems like a logical deal for both teams.
2008-07-31 10:24:36
164.   CanuckDodger
About the news story on the grisly murder, what are the chances the last sentence of a news wire story on such a thing would make one laugh out loud? I suppose you all know that Canada has very strong gun registration laws? Here's the last sentence of's story: "The minister [Canada's Minister of Public Safety] said he's not entertaining any notion of registering knives as dangerous weapons given that millions of kitchen knives alone are sold annually." Knife control laws? A journalist was stupid enough to ask a government cabinet minister about the possibility of knife control laws?
2008-07-31 10:25:31
165.   sporky
155 The Toaster seems to eat consecutive asterisks, but for what it's worth, the number of asterisks matched up with a blogger who is thoroughly convinced that Billingsley's arm is about to disintegrate.
2008-07-31 10:25:44
166.   Greg Brock
Don Mattingly's highest walk total in one season was 60.
2008-07-31 10:25:57
167.   Bob Timmermann
No offense, but it's Canada. I fully expected someone to ask that question.
2008-07-31 10:26:23
168.   Ken Noe
152 You rang?
2008-07-31 10:26:27
169.   Greg Brock
Oh, 61. My bad.

Huge plate discipline, that guy.

2008-07-31 10:26:36
170.   cargill06
158 makes sense.
2008-07-31 10:26:55
171.   Hallux Valgus
156 Mattingly was on the pregame show a couple of days ago and said something about Jones getting too low in the legs and uppercutting his swing, which I found to be utter crap, because he has always dipped way low (I once saw him hit a massive home run with his right knee on the ground) and has always had an uppercut swing. Granted, his swing is a mess, but I don't think it's any different than his swing in years past.
2008-07-31 10:26:57
172.   underdog
That's a scary story. I've actually ridden Greyhound a couple of times in my life and never had any problems (except for one drunk woman who had to be ejected) but I do recall napping with one eye open, and that's without even imagining something so grisly.


Meanwhile the Manny trade talks are not dead after all. Or maybe they are. Or not. Or just resting. Or maybe they wouldn't voom if you put four million volts through 'em, they're bleeding demised.

Or not.

2008-07-31 10:27:02
173.   Sean P

Humans are primates and monkeys are primates, but humans are not monkeys.

2008-07-31 10:28:39
174.   wronghanded
162 So FIP doesn't factor WHIP?
2008-07-31 10:28:53
175.   berkowit28
143 Vacation mid-season? Don't they have rather long vacations in the off-season? There must be more to it than that, some special situation - someone getting married, sick, whatever.
2008-07-31 10:29:54
176.   underdog
169 - Twue. Though doesn't it seem like Kemp is being more patient at the plate? Maybe that's all on his own. Or Mattingly's of the "do as I say, not as I do/did" school of teaching.
2008-07-31 10:30:20
177.   Xeifrank
174. I posted the FIP formula earlier in the thread. vr, Xei
2008-07-31 10:30:59
178.   underdog
Did you know that Rick Monday is actually one of the Watchmen? He didn't make the comic book's final cut, but apparently his character was called The "FlagGrabber." Yep, it's a little-known fact.
2008-07-31 10:32:14
179.   Bob Timmermann
It's still a grind to cover 162 games. And all the spring training games. After all these years, I would think Monday has some vacation time due him.
2008-07-31 10:32:48
180.   ToyCannon
I love posters who know so much more about hitting then hitting coaches.
2008-07-31 10:32:52
181.   Eric Stephen
Per 72 (and The Hardball Times), here is the calculation for FIP:

=((HR*13 + Walks*3 - SO*2)/IP) + a league adjustment factor (currently 3.2; it can fluctuate)

2008-07-31 10:33:30
182.   wronghanded
177 Oops, I missed it thanks.
2008-07-31 10:33:53
183.   fanerman
180 Most of the posters I own are inanimate.
2008-07-31 10:33:53
184.   Greg Brock
180 Who said anything like that?

Nobody, that's who.

2008-07-31 10:36:38
185.   ToyCannon
Not talking to you Greg, stand down.
2008-07-31 10:36:38
186.   D4P
I love posters who know so much more about player evaluation than general managers
2008-07-31 10:36:48
187.   Indiana Jon
180 Posters also know more than General Managers and Managers, so why not hitting coaches?
2008-07-31 10:37:31
188.   Bob Timmermann
I love posters who know more about catcher's interference calls than I do.
2008-07-31 10:38:33
189.   Greg Brock
185 I haven't seen anything about anybody being more of an expert than Mattingly.

Now Colletti, yes, he's a big dumb animal, folks.

2008-07-31 10:39:17
190.   wronghanded
187 Because it's Donny Baseball, the sport is in his name for crying out loud!
2008-07-31 10:43:14
191.   ToyCannon
171 based on one at bat that he once saw A Jones take. I'm sure that was more relevant then the hours and hours of video that Mattingly has seen of hitters.
2008-07-31 10:44:10
192.   ToyCannon
But, not a monkey.
2008-07-31 10:45:30
193.   Tripon
Don Mattingly should be our first pitch hitter off the bench. ...Okay, second pitch hitter after Kuo.
2008-07-31 10:47:09
194.   Terry A
I love that poster of Alyssa Milano in a hockey jersey. Or at least I did when I was a kid.
2008-07-31 10:47:29
195.   wronghanded
173 Q: Some primates are humans and some primates are monkeys so are some humans monkeys?

A: Ned Colletti

2008-07-31 10:48:24
196.   gibsonhobbs88
Approximately 2 hours 10 minutes to go!
How's everyone holding up?
2008-07-31 10:50:00
197.   D4P
How's everyone holding up?

I just can't take all this back and forth with the Manny Trade™. The future of American baseball (nay: society) hangs in the balance!

2008-07-31 10:50:59
198.   Greg Brock
191 I just took that as a long way of saying his problem is in his head, not his swing.

Which I happen to agree with. Well, that and the lack of performance enhancing drugs. Those two things.

2008-07-31 10:51:34
199.   Terry A
Also: I got my tickets for Tuesday's Billingsley/Carpenter (I think) matchup at Busch Stadium. Bob will be glad to know that the St. Louis stadium hails itself as "Baseball Heaven."

It's printed right on the tickets, so it must be true!

2008-07-31 10:51:39
200.   natepurcell

I have to pack all my clothes and I'm having a hard time doing that.

But, it could just be that I have a burning hatred for moving.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-07-31 10:52:05
201.   gibsonhobbs88
How many PVL's can Colletti gather at young talent's expense in the next 2 hours plus that he can get past Mccourt/White/Eng? That is the question? Not quite Shakespeare but for Dodger fans right now, a very vital question for our teams future!
2008-07-31 10:52:07
202.   Hallux Valgus
191 I think you're inferring far too much.
2008-07-31 10:52:18
203.   bhsportsguy
Personal insults just bring down DT to a talk show mentality.
2008-07-31 10:53:00
204.   DaDoughboy
anyone have tickets for tomorrow night they can't use? This DT'er trying to find some tixs..thanks guys/gals.
2008-07-31 10:54:36
205.   Terry A
203 - Yeah? What do you know about it, boogerhead?
2008-07-31 10:56:45
206.   Bob Timmermann
Does "Baseball Heaven" have a trademark symbol next to it?
2008-07-31 10:57:19
207.   Greg Brock
Nothing will be worse than Nate's "OMG Kershaw is cleaning out his locker!" bomb last year.

Man, that was...Most bothersome.

2008-07-31 10:58:05
208.   Terry A
206 - No, but it does appear just below the image of a sliding Yadier Molina. Only in Baseball Heaven could Yadi generate enough footspeed to make sliding worthwhile.
2008-07-31 11:00:28
209.   bhsportsguy
205 I don't know anything about it.
2008-07-31 11:01:43
210.   Alex41592
You mean to tell me the Manny trade is NOT going to happen? What in the heck.
2008-07-31 11:01:52
211.   trainwreck
That is flippin insane.
2008-07-31 11:01:55
212.   natepurcell

Yes that was horrible, I apologize again.

2008-07-31 11:03:09
213.   Terry A
209 - Shoot. I thought you might at least call me a goober or something. Work with me, people!

(You get that 205 was pure silliness, I hope. I agree with your comment in 203.)

2008-07-31 11:03:37
214.   Greg Brock
212 Nah, it was funny....Afterwards.

Those few minutes, not so much.

2008-07-31 11:04:41
215.   natepurcell

You think it'll work two years in a row?

2008-07-31 11:04:50
216.   Bob Timmermann
bhsportsguy's theme song is "Goober Peas" by the Kingston Trio.
2008-07-31 11:05:02
217.   Gen3Blue
I'm just glad to learn we don't have to wait until midnight to know. That would make for a long day.
2008-07-31 11:05:22
218.   Tripon
The Score 670 Chicago reports that the White Sox are close to acquiring John Lannan from the Nationals.
It's unknown just who the Chicago would be sending over in the deal, but this is Jim Bowden we're dealing with, so anything is possible. Lannan is arbitration eligible through 2013, and he can keep the ball on the ground, which would make him a nice fit in Chicago.

Lannan seemed like such a goof when he pitched against the Dodgers a little while back. Wouldn't mind him pitching for the Dodgers though.

2008-07-31 11:06:41
219.   Greg Brock
215 Only one way to find out...
2008-07-31 11:06:58
220.   natepurcell




2008-07-31 11:07:13
221.   cargill06
212 for those who weren't around, please explain.
2008-07-31 11:09:20
222.   D4P
I had a dream last night that Tobias was pregnant, and was claiming that I was the father.

It was weird.

2008-07-31 11:09:29
223.   CanuckDodger
207 -- When Nate revealed he was joking, you want to know how I felt? Let's just say that if Nate and I had been on a Greyhound bus together at that time....
2008-07-31 11:09:47
224.   GMac In The 909
221 It seems to be covered in 207
2008-07-31 11:11:47
225.   Zak
I wish this wasn't a true story or at the least, I wish I was exaggerating, but unfortunately this is true. I got hit by a cold yesterday and last night I was sick as heck. I have very vivid memories of waking up for a few minutes at a time about 5-6 times last night. And every time I woke up, in my half-asleep, barely-able-to-breathe stage, I was thinking about the baseball trading deadline. The whole thought of it all made me sicker I think.
2008-07-31 11:12:00
226.   fanerman
I had a dream last night that Matt Kemp hit a home run. And everybody on Dodger Thoughts was happy. It was a good dream.
2008-07-31 11:12:14
227.   trainwreck
Why did everyone just run out of the bus and leave that guy to be decapitated? I don't think a guy with a knife could take on a giant mob of people.
2008-07-31 11:12:15
228.   Tripon
223 You'd be asking Nate why they don't ban knives in America?
2008-07-31 11:12:16
229.   okdodge
223 wow. here's the line, there's canuck.
2008-07-31 11:12:34
230.   Eric Stephen
The think I don't like about the trade deadline anxiety is that even though the deadline is at 1pm, there is always that 30 minutes or so afterwards during which deals could get finalized.

It's like extra time in soccer. You think it's over, but it's not quite over yet.

2008-07-31 11:12:48
231.   Zak
222 Did you violate his never-nudeness?
2008-07-31 11:12:52
232.   natepurcell
It feels good to know that my imprint has been left on DT where the shockwave still resounds a year later.

Very proud for myself.

2008-07-31 11:13:11
233.   GobiasIndustries
Did someone forget to take his Timocil last night?
2008-07-31 11:13:16
234.   Kevin Lewis

Man, that story made me sick to my stomach. That is absolutely horrible. I can't imagine what an experience like that would do to an eyewitness.

2008-07-31 11:14:17
235.   CanuckDodger
229 -- Relax, Nate and I are pals.
2008-07-31 11:15:26
236.   fanerman
227 I had the impression that by the time they figured out what was going on, the guy was dead already.
2008-07-31 11:15:29
237.   Andrew Shimmin
The truly weird thing is that, even after doing everything in 130, Canuck still has internet privileges. Canadian jail must be pretty sweet.
2008-07-31 11:16:21
238.   D4P
Fortunately, the dream did not include any potentially impregnating activities. It all took place post-conception.
2008-07-31 11:16:38
239.   Lexinthedena
130 That's one of the more disturbing things I have ever read. Couldn't find any news links to it though.
2008-07-31 11:16:43
240.   okdodge
I didn't say I thought the comment wasn't humerous. In fact when I read I pictured some canuck type dude (whatever that is) riding in the dodger's huge travel bus, holding up Nate's head wearing a Dodger helmet.
2008-07-31 11:17:04
241.   Greg Brock
I can't hear Reid Brignac's last name without thinking of the rock monster from Galaxy Quest.


2008-07-31 11:17:28
242.   cargill06
227 maybe in the heat of the situation courage would take over. but from a logical standpoint i'd flee, as wrong as it maybe it'd be different if it were a family memeber or friend, compared to a complete stranger.
2008-07-31 11:17:39
243.   Andrew Shimmin
2008-07-31 11:18:45
244.   CanuckDodger
227 -- I think it was already too late for the victim when somebody saw what was happening. The decapitation happened after the victim was already dead, and while the decapitation makes the whole story more horrific, if the victim is already dying, do you risk any more lives to prevent something disgusting happening to the corpse?
2008-07-31 11:19:14
245.   larry slimfast
keith law's link to ken griffey jr's stats on his trade blog go to pat tabler's stats instead.

2008-07-31 11:19:20
246.   Kevin Lewis

Easier said than done.

2008-07-31 11:19:53
247.   Greg Brock
"There was no rage in him ... It was just like he was a robot or something," he added.

The eyewitness is obviously not familiar with Asimov's three laws of robotics.

2008-07-31 11:20:17
248.   jujibee
2008-07-31 11:20:50
249.   ToyCannon
To pass the final two hours. A quick look back at what we have done this decade at the trade deadline.
2008-07-31 11:22:13
250.   Andrew Shimmin
By the way, Rich Lederer was (may still be, I haven't seen him pushing it in a while) a big proponent of moving off of K/9 to K/100 Pitches. It's worth a read, if you haven't seen it before.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-07-31 11:22:37
251.   trainwreck
They just play street hockey, badminton, and smoke dope. Sure sometimes the dope sucks. I've seen documentaries about this.
2008-07-31 11:23:09
252.   Bluebleeder87
It is always nice to see a Dodger progress the way billingsley has, very promessing. Man, I saw Kevin Brown warming up once from close distance, that was really cool.

Just imagine a 94+ fastball that drops all of a sudden, WHAT!?

2008-07-31 11:24:04
253.   D4P
You seem to be missing something in 2004...
2008-07-31 11:25:43
254.   cargill06
248 did he commit suciede it doesn't say.

if i was the police, id have a hard time not ending his life right there.

2008-07-31 11:27:27
255.   Andrew Shimmin
The Canadian decapitation made Drudge. The story, right beneath it, for juxtapositional purposes.
2008-07-31 11:27:53
256.   wronghanded
252 I played ball with Bruce Bochy's kid and got the opportunity to go to Qualcom before a Padre game in the late 90's. I saw Brown throw a BP and was amazed at the movement and control he had. One of the guys we were with asked him if he could throw a 4-seamer and he preceded to pump a 98 MPH fastball(radar gun was in front of us) right down the pipe. Needless to say we were all blown away.
2008-07-31 11:29:27
257.   Bob Timmermann
He was just looking for trades on the deadline day.

The Heart and Soul trade was on July 30 I believe.

2008-07-31 11:29:54
258.   Andrew Shimmin
Oops. Forgot the link: (grotesque, but not unsafe for work)

2008-07-31 11:30:13
259.   ToyCannon
Thanks, day before the deadline but it is there now.
2008-07-31 11:31:17
260.   CanuckDodger
251 -- Trailer Park Boys!
2008-07-31 11:32:41
261.   trainwreck
I pretty much quote the show everyday, so it was about time I got to make a reference on DT.
2008-07-31 11:33:28
262.   The Blue Legend
Rome was on fire with his "Golf Guy" segment. I bet there is a few "Golf Guys" in here
2008-07-31 11:35:12
263.   ToyCannon
Two movies I can never not watch if my remote happens to glance past them even though I own both of them.
Galaxy Quest
Princess Bride

If my partner did not like these movies we would not be married.

2008-07-31 11:35:21
264.   Greg Brock
Who cares if Adam Dunn likes playing baseball? He's good at it.

This ongoing meme is one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

Jeff Kent doesn't like baseball very much, either. And he's not good at it anymore.

2008-07-31 11:35:37
265.   CanuckDodger
261 -- Do you have any favorite quotes?
2008-07-31 11:40:04
266.   jujibee
According to MLBtraderumors

1:31pm: Heyman says the Dodgers are back in the mix for Manny but the Marlins aren't out of it.

If you click the Heyman link on the page, it says the Dodgers are offering Ethier but the Sox prefer Kemp. Come to think of it, an outfield of Kemp Manny and Jones is quite appealing.

2008-07-31 11:40:20
267.   trainwreck
I have a ton, too bad you can't say most of them here.

Ricky: ...I'm having trouble talking, but I am smart.

Ricky: Get over here you alien skinny giraffe chickens!

2008-07-31 11:40:36
268.   kngoworld
More junk:

>>>>>1:31pm: Heyman says the Dodgers are back in the mix for Manny but the Marlins aren't out of it.

The Dodgers have offered young outfielder Andre Ethier, but Boston is believed to prefer Matt Kemp.<<<<<<

2008-07-31 11:40:43
269.   ToyCannon
In an effort to increase the eyeballs at True Blue, Andrew has added the Textually Active Snorgtees to the ad lineup. I applaud this move, reminds me of the old Herald Examiner ads in the sports pages.
2008-07-31 11:40:51
270.   underdog
247 A Robot Made of Knives?


263 - I agree, Toy, I can watch Galaxy Quest repeatedly. I think I've worn the grooves out on that DVD, if you could wear grooves on DVDs.

2008-07-31 11:40:53
271.   Bob Timmermann
Jayson Stark says the Dodgers deal for Maddux is dead.
2008-07-31 11:41:21
272.   Ken Noe
Heyman: Ned offers Ethier for Manny, Sox want Bison:
2008-07-31 11:41:39
273.   trainwreck
Bubbles:I got a grey kitty, white one,
and a tabby too/
And a big orange guy
who put snakes in my shoes/
Mad MC skills, leave ya struck,
and I roll with ma kitties,
and I'am hard as {Rule 1}/
I am down with Plato and Socrates/
And I like to get busy with all the ladies.
Grunt, grunt/
sumthin,' sumthin,' sumthin,'/
Up in ma shed, up in ma shed...
2008-07-31 11:43:48
274.   natepurcell

How does that work with the new mandate on not taking on anymore salary?

2008-07-31 11:44:54
275.   natepurcell
You have to pick up Manny's options right?
2008-07-31 11:45:28
276.   kngoworld
274 McCourt will pay any amount of money for a former Red Sox.
2008-07-31 11:45:55
277.   still bevens
275 I think the caveat is that you have to not pick up Manny's options.
2008-07-31 11:46:20
278.   ImprobableImpossible
Manny doesn't want his options picked up. He wants another long-term deal after this season.

Keep Kemp!

2008-07-31 11:46:25
279.   Ken Noe
274 Sox would pay it, supposedly.
2008-07-31 11:46:36
280.   kngoworld
275 I have read reports that Manny wants his options declined at the end of season, no matter what team he is on.
2008-07-31 11:46:43
281.   natepurcell

Then the trade isn't as good.

2008-07-31 11:46:50
282.   sporky
I'm standing by with my 'Molecular Biology of the cell.' Just let me know when.
2008-07-31 11:47:22
283.   trainwreck
I hope Ned does panic and give them a giant package centered around Ethier.
2008-07-31 11:47:56
284.   underdog
Ethier would be more reasonable from the Dodgers' standpoint. Anyway, I hope this whole thing dies a quick, horrible death.

One hour and ten minutes, folks. Keep together in an orderly fashion. There's coffee and tea in the lobby.

2008-07-31 11:48:04
285.   trainwreck
2008-07-31 11:48:29
286.   underdog
271 Is it dead, or just resting?
2008-07-31 11:48:37
287.   jujibee
On second thought, 2 months of Manny sounds nice, but next year we'd be stuck with having to watch JP play every day with Jones and Kemp. I say we just keep Ethier.
2008-07-31 11:48:40
288.   GMac In The 909
278 ManRam for a buck.
2008-07-31 11:49:02
289.   Greg Brock
286 It's pining for the fjords.
2008-07-31 11:49:27
290.   Bob Timmermann
It's passed on. Deceased. Expired. Singing in the Choir Invisible.
2008-07-31 11:49:53
291.   Ken Noe
284 If there's any truth to it--it is Heyman after all--it should founder on Bison. I still want this over.
2008-07-31 11:50:02
292.   RIYank
Ugh. I'll be unhappy if the Dodgers trade Kemp for Manny. Probably not as unhappy as you'll be, but still.
2008-07-31 11:50:03
293.   Greg Brock
It has ceased to be.
2008-07-31 11:51:19
294.   Scanman33
287-Not once Ned brings in Randy Winn.
2008-07-31 11:51:38
295.   sporky
FSN Prime is airing 'Andre Ethier: Before the Bigs' tonight.
2008-07-31 11:51:43
296.   unlazy4sports
I hope Ned stays firm on Ethier and not give in with Kemp. Maybe get the Sox to take Pierre as well?
2008-07-31 11:54:18
297.   Ken Noe
The temptation to please Plaschke and Rosenthal must be strong. Logan, take the phone away from him, now!
2008-07-31 11:54:28
298.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Gammons just said that someone close to Manny said that they are still talking to the Dodgers.


2008-07-31 11:55:12
299.   underdog
292 "Probably not"? ;-) I think this place will explode with Hulk-like rage and take the whole Toaster down with it.

293 This deal wouldn't voom if you put 4 million volts through it.

(Oh wait, that's the second time I've quoted that today. I'm a nerd.)

How about...

This deal's a bit runny today.

Oh! The cat's gotten it.

2008-07-31 11:55:48
300.   Zak
I don't know why Kemp's name is still out there. At this point, shouldn't Kemp be almost as untouchable as Billingsley. Not blaming the Dodgers FO, but they should be making it plenty clear to everyone that Kemp is not leaving unless replaced by someone like HanRam.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-07-31 11:56:07
301.   silverwidow
We're going to trade Ethier/LaRoche/???.

I just know it.

2008-07-31 11:56:36
302.   Xeifrank
The possible Matt Kemp / ManRam trade was last seen riding on a Greyhound bus headed for the Canadian border.
vr, Xei
2008-07-31 11:57:00
303.   bigcpa
If we do Ethier for Manny and he leaves I can't see us going with Pierre/Jones/Kemp in '09. So that makes us bidders on Burrell/Dunn.
2008-07-31 11:57:02
304.   Greg Brock
I haven't been this nervous since I climbed the twin peaks of Kilimanjaro.
2008-07-31 11:57:16
305.   Uncle Miltie
After seeing that Manny would be a rental, the only way that I'd make the deal is if the Red Sox took Pierre along with Ethier.

With Ned in charge, I'd prefer that the Dodgers not make anymore deals.

2008-07-31 11:57:18
306.   fanerman
One more hour and some change.
2008-07-31 11:58:44
307.   underdog
{{biting nails}}

Can someone hack into Ned's cell phone and cut off service?

2008-07-31 11:59:41
308.   cargill06
302 man that's cold
2008-07-31 11:59:43
309.   Greg Brock
Steve Phillips, pop psychologist.


2008-07-31 11:59:44
310.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Steve Phillips thinks our problem is that we have young players, and old player.... no one in their prime.

I don't necessarily disagree.

2008-07-31 12:00:22
311.   regfairfield
John Perallato saying that Beane's turned off his phone.
2008-07-31 12:00:46
312.   cargill06
307 earthquake?
2008-07-31 12:00:58
313.   Greg Brock
310 He's not wrong on that, but the idea that the pressure bothers the young players is weird.
2008-07-31 12:01:09
314.   sporky

>>Dodgers manager Joe Torre is known to love Ramirez from Torre's days in New York managing against him, and Dodgers owner Frank McCourt, a Bostonian, has long been enamored of Red Sox players and can't be counted out now.<<

That's kind of embarrassing.

2008-07-31 12:01:40
315.   Terry A
307 - Canuck can hack into his central nervous system and cut off...
2008-07-31 12:01:54
316.   Bob Timmermann
The inimitable Buster Olney says the D-Backs will stand pat.
2008-07-31 12:03:44
317.   Greg Brock
Ken Rosenthal is reporting that four out of five dentists prefer Crest Whitening Strips over the leading brand.
2008-07-31 12:04:15
318.   underdog
Not that anyone needs a perspective check, but just a call for your good wishes and fingers crossed about something unrelated. See, my g/f was found to have some growths on her thyroid, which aren't that uncommon. They're gonna do a biopsy soon (though not soon enough for my own psyche). The odds are really good it's not cancerous, and if God forbid it is, still in her favor, very treatable (but not fun), but we're still pretty nervous about it til we get the results. Sometimes they do surgery, sometimes they just keep an eye on it and give thyroid medication. But at any rate, if y'all could think good thoughts and cross yer fingers, I'm sure it can't hurt! She's less freaked out than I am. :-) (And no need to post anything here. Just think good thoughts. Will let y'all know what happens.)

Baseball is a nice distraction from all this, though. Although a horrific trade or some sort might ruin me more than it normally would.

2008-07-31 12:04:19
319.   Who Is Karim Garcia

So we're interested in ManRam because Torre and McCourt have manlove for him.


2008-07-31 12:05:09
320.   trainwreck
He also reported that Matt Kemp brushes his teeth with his own spit, so the Dodgers may trade him.
2008-07-31 12:05:35
321.   Greg Brock
318 All the best, man.
2008-07-31 12:05:38
322.   gibsonhobbs88
I swear, I will cut off my allegiance to the Blue if they trade Kemp for a rental. I'm not even happy if we give them Ethier and LaRoche. Ethier and Pierre or Jones I can live with and would even approve as it would get one of our albatrosses off our necks. I don't think epstein would be that stupid though! I am so afraid Colletti and Frank will approve this turkey of a trade and send our future outfield stud away for two months of Manny. I'm almost as scared as the morning of Jan. 17, 1994, not quite, but almost.
2008-07-31 12:05:39
323.   sporky
318 Good luck!
2008-07-31 12:05:51
324.   regfairfield
This would be a really good time to force the Pirates to make a bad move. They have to rebuild more than we need their players.
2008-07-31 12:06:01
325.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Phillips wouldn't have traded Kotchman for Teixiera.
2008-07-31 12:06:14
326.   Terry A
Tomorrow's LA Times headline:

319 - ManLove brings ManRam for ManBoobs

2008-07-31 12:06:15
327.   fanerman
318 Oh man. Good luck!
2008-07-31 12:06:25
328.   bhsportsguy
Every year its the same.

On the one hand, I don't see why Ned doesn't trade for now, heck what does he care what the team looks like next year or 2010.

On the other, if things hold pat for another hour, he and the Dodgers will get ridiculed by Plaschke and Simers for not going for it and reward their long suffering fans with something that looks like they are trying to win now.

2008-07-31 12:06:51
329.   GMac In The 909
318 My fingers and toes are crossed until further notice.
2008-07-31 12:07:24
330.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Ethier is my favorite Dodger, by far. I will be very upset if he leaves. It will be a very sad, sad day for me indeed.
2008-07-31 12:07:34
331.   Bob Timmermann
Good luck to her.

But I didn't know you were dating Doug Davis.

2008-07-31 12:08:35
332.   willhite
If we wind up with Manny, Congress needs to pass a law that he and JP can't be in the same outfield at the same time.

Good luck underdog - fingers crossed

2008-07-31 12:08:44
333.   trainwreck
Who can turn down the pride of Northgate High School.

I'm thinking good thoughts, underdog.

2008-07-31 12:09:13
334.   Terry A
Best wishes, underdog and g/f.
2008-07-31 12:09:22
335.   trainwreck
Actually, Icaros would.
2008-07-31 12:09:22
336.   Louis in SF
I think at the end of the day the Manny thing doesn't come off with the Dodgers because the salary dump, anything over 1 million has to be approved by the commissioner's office, so if the Dodgers added Jones or Pierre the salries would be closer, but don't think the Red Sox are interested in either of those two.

Does it make any sense to try and do Ethier for Bay straight up? He is signed through next year and in fairness represents more power

2008-07-31 12:09:28
337.   Ken Noe
318 Hang in there--we just went through something similar. All was well.
2008-07-31 12:09:45
338.   underdog
331 Thanks folks!

Hah! I forgot he had thyroid cancer. Well, he's a good model if, again, God forbid it comes to that. Sigh. I believe she'd go on the disabled list for awhile, too, if PR firms have disabled lists. They'll probably call up some rookie flack to fill her spot.

2008-07-31 12:10:12
339.   blue22
318 - Ok, taking a break from my self-imposed moratorium on posting to wish you and your girlfriend the best of luck. You're a good guy, so I can only assume you've picked yourself out a quality partner. Hope all turns out well, and you can breathe easy.
2008-07-31 12:10:23
340.   underdog
"Thanks folks!" was meant for all of you, not just Bob.
2008-07-31 12:10:55
341.   Who Is Karim Garcia

Best of luck, bro.

2008-07-31 12:10:58
342.   Zak
318 Good luck man. Like Bob said, before you know it, she'll be ready to pitch in the majors.
2008-07-31 12:11:10
343.   sporky
Rotoworld: A source told that the Rays will get Jason Bay from the Pirates for Reid Brignac and Jeff Niemann.
2008-07-31 12:11:20
344.   Eric Stephen
I wish you and your GF the best!
2008-07-31 12:11:31
345.   Bob Timmermann
Plaschke has criticized the Dodgers front office every for not making a big deal at the trading deadline except in 2004.

Then he criticized the Dodgers for making too many big deals at the trading deadline.

2008-07-31 12:11:55
346.   GMac In The 909
Jason Bay is now a Ray, per MLBTR.
2008-07-31 12:11:59
347.   Alex41592
A source told that the Rays will get Jason Bay from the Pirates for Reid Brignac and Jeff Niemann.
2008-07-31 12:12:01
348.   trainwreck
It's okay, Bob's like the size of 2 or 3 people anyways.
2008-07-31 12:12:11
349.   silverwidow
Jason Bay to Rays for Brignac/Niemann (
2008-07-31 12:12:21
350.   underdog
I wonder what Giants fans who mancrush on Ethier will feel if he leaves the division for manram? A lot of mixed feelings and sadness.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-07-31 12:12:34
351.   Jon Weisman
345 - Boom!
2008-07-31 12:12:39
352.   Greg Brock
48 minutes!

And then the hour afterward when deals trickle in.

But 48 minutes!

2008-07-31 12:12:46
353.   RIYank
318 Good luck, Sweet Polly!
2008-07-31 12:13:19
354.   trainwreck
I think the Rays dominated this trade. Niemann is an innings eater, with a bad injury past. Brignac looks like a one-year wonder.
2008-07-31 12:13:27
355.   Ken Noe
Some perspective from Rotoworld: According to's Jon Heyman, the Dodgers are back in on the Manny Ramirez talks, but they're offering Andre Ethier, not Matt Kemp. This after Heyman said last night that the Dodgers had made it clear they were willing to trade Kemp for Ramirez. The Red Sox would surely prefer the right-handed hitter and are likely to hold out for him.
2008-07-31 12:13:27
356.   whodat807
Good luck to you and your girlfriend, underdog.
2008-07-31 12:13:32
357.   Bob Timmermann
Doctors love to send me in for thyroid checks because I always show up at the office with a fairly high pulse rate (although normal BP). Every doctor I see has to go through the ritual of just determining that I'm always freaked out by going to the doctor.
2008-07-31 12:13:32
358.   underdog
Thanks again, guys (and gals). {{sniff!}}

I'll keep ya posted. :-)


Wow, that's a great trade for BOTH teams, no?

2008-07-31 12:14:31
359.   sporky
If TB gets Bay, can Boston afford to trade Manny? I don't think any trade can match his production this year.
2008-07-31 12:14:45
360.   underdog
354 - I thought scouts were really high on Brignac? Or is he overvalued?
2008-07-31 12:14:47
361.   natepurcell
Pirates should have gotten a third piece.
2008-07-31 12:15:20
362.   ImprobableImpossible
Does this mean Ned will now overpay slightly less for Jack Wilson?
2008-07-31 12:15:48
363.   Greg Brock
I'm still waiting for any of those Rice guys to sniff anything close to being good.

Throwing your arm off in college is a bummer.

2008-07-31 12:15:51
364.   cargill06
346 Xei, should be happy
2008-07-31 12:15:59
365.   blue22
361 - Desmond Jennings?
2008-07-31 12:16:24
366.   Who Is Karim Garcia
If ManRam comes to LA, I'll buy a beer toanyone who accompanies me to the first game he wears Blue.
2008-07-31 12:16:28
367.   bhsportsguy
318 Good luck with that.

And this may bring a smile to your face today, but really I hope everything works out, we still need to do that Bay Area DT outing.

2008-07-31 12:16:42
368.   fanerman
150:1, Baby!
2008-07-31 12:16:48
369.   regfairfield
What's so good about Brignac? He's young for his league, but he's sucking in AAA.
2008-07-31 12:16:49
370.   trainwreck
They were, but I think people see him as iffy now.
2008-07-31 12:17:06
371.   Greg Brock
Though I can think of somebody that likes how Niemann's last name is spelled.
2008-07-31 12:17:26
372.   trainwreck
People like that he's a 6-3 shortstop and had one good season. At least, that's what it seems like to me.
2008-07-31 12:17:55
373.   Uncle Miltie
I love this trade for Tampa Bay. Ir gives the Rays a legit middle of the order bat who gets on base at a high rate.
2008-07-31 12:19:02
374.   underdog
Huh. Well then the Pirates are stupid, as usual.

367 If you come up for the Aug 8 series you can join us! I'm looking for tix now.

2008-07-31 12:19:08
375.   trainwreck
Pirates should have demanded either Hellickson or Davis, along with John Jaso.
2008-07-31 12:19:33
376.   RIYank
Dang, I don't like that at all. Jason Bay in the AL East (and without pinstripes). And Manny's still in the division, too.
2008-07-31 12:19:52
377.   underdog
371 What's the big deal? So he can paint cheesy watercolors of athletes. Big whoop.
2008-07-31 12:20:17
378.   natepurcell

Not a big fan of Davis, but they definitely needed a 3rd piece.

2008-07-31 12:20:25
379.   underdog
376 I hope he is in an hour anyway. Stop jinxing it!
2008-07-31 12:21:52
380.   Marty
Best of luck Underdog
2008-07-31 12:22:13
381.   Indiana Jon
For the last half an hour, I've been repeating in my head:

"Please be Ethier, please be Ethier, please be Ethier."

2008-07-31 12:22:53
382.   underdog
337 And belated thanks, Ken. Who knows, we may email you for advice. :-)

38 minutes folks... are we still intact?

2008-07-31 12:23:11
383.   Ken Noe
For the last half an hour, I've been repeating in my head: "Please be Pierre, please be Pierre, please be Pieere."
2008-07-31 12:23:49
384.   Ken Noe
382 Anytime, not that I have much.
2008-07-31 12:23:54
385.   fanerman
For the last half an hour, I've been repeating in my head: "Please be Pierre and Andruw, please be Pierre and Andruw, please be Pierre and Andruw."
2008-07-31 12:24:04
386.   Tripon
The heck is ESPN doing? Why are they showing Golf and Tennis when they're baseball talk going on!
2008-07-31 12:24:23
387.   underdog
147-year old Hal McCoy comments on the Griffey trade:

Doesn't his picture look like one of those fake ones for like the astrologist in the Onion?

2008-07-31 12:24:32
388.   whodat807
I'd have been all for trading Ethier for Bay, but now that he's off the table, I really hope we don't give up either Ethier or Kemp for ManRam.
2008-07-31 12:24:37
389.   cloakedarbiter
Please be Pierre... please be Pierre... please be Pierre...
2008-07-31 12:24:41
390.   LogikReader
For the last half an hour, I've been repeating in my head: "Please be asleep, Ned, Please be asleep, please be asleep..."
2008-07-31 12:24:49
391.   Indiana Jon
383 385 I guess the voice in my head is just more realistic.
2008-07-31 12:25:42
392.   underdog
{{busy hacking into Ned's cell phone account via personal connection at AT&T}}

{{rerouting all calls to a telemarketer in Bangladesh}}

2008-07-31 12:25:45
393.   regfairfield
I don't think Manny's going anywhere. Any kind of deal where we want the Red Sox to pay him off is inherently complicated, there's not enough time for it.
2008-07-31 12:25:50
394.   Louis in SF
Good luck and my thoughts are with you Underdog. UCSF is very good with that stuff, but other places in the Bay Area are also good.
2008-07-31 12:26:27
395.   The Blue Legend
35 more minutes (I hear the clock ticking like in the show 24)
2008-07-31 12:26:27
396.   trainwreck
They put the deadline coverage on ESPNews, because two seasons ago they had a big special and absolutely nothing meaningful happened.
2008-07-31 12:26:41
397.   Indiana Jon
I would love an Ethier for Manny deal. I have a bit of manlove for Manny myself and Ethier seems replaceable. Kemp, not so much. The only scray thing is what we send with Ethier.
2008-07-31 12:28:07
398.   Bob Timmermann
I've been chanting "Systems analyst! Systems analyst! Systems analyst!"
2008-07-31 12:28:30
399.   Landonkk
393 Unfortunately a trade only has to be agreed upon by both teams before the deadline. If it requires Commish approval, they can take as long as they want as long as its on Selig's desk before then.
2008-07-31 12:29:17
400.   Marty
I don't want Manny. I just want Pierre and Jones disappeared.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-07-31 12:29:18
401.   still bevens
399 Never forget the Lugo post-deadline bombshell of 2006.
2008-07-31 12:29:25
402.   bigcpa
From the Globe's Gordon Edes (3:24 p.m.): It's looking like the Red Sox are not engaged with the Dodgers in any talks regarding Manny Ramirez.
2008-07-31 12:29:34
403.   The Blue Legend
This is the calm before the storm. Didn't we find out about the Maddux trade a few minutes after the deadline?
2008-07-31 12:30:11
404.   Marty
398 Is that a Vanilla Sky reference? Isn't is System Support!
2008-07-31 12:30:18
405.   The Blue Legend
Yes the Lugo headline felt like a punch to the stomach
2008-07-31 12:31:01
406.   Tripon
Breaking News!

Dodgers trade GM Ned Coletti,OF Andruw Jones, and OF Juan Pierre for GM Theo Epstein, Manny Ramirez, and Josh Beckett.

2008-07-31 12:31:57
407.   underdog
The Dodgers just acquired Brett Favre, apparently. More news as it happened! QB problem is solved. Good work, Ned!
2008-07-31 12:32:09
408.   RIYank
402 That's good. Edes is a cut above the other gossip mongers. Two cuts.
2008-07-31 12:32:36
409.   cloakedarbiter
406 As long as the Sox eat up Manny's salary
2008-07-31 12:32:48
410.   PHilldodger
404 I believe it is a reference to The Simpsons. One of Bart's classmates is hoping the result of an aptitude test shows him suitable to be a Systems Analyst.
Been a long time since I've seen that episode though.
2008-07-31 12:32:54
411.   The Blue Legend
I'm dreading the Jack Wilson for Ethier & LaRoche headline.
2008-07-31 12:33:03
412.   sporky
398 I saw that episode when I had no idea what a systems analyst did (not that I have any clue now, though).
2008-07-31 12:33:11
413.   underdog
Hm, the White Sox are actually interested in old friend Joel Hanrahan, not Hannan as was previously reported. Understandable mistake.
2008-07-31 12:33:22
414.   trainwreck
So he's going to start for the Avengers?
2008-07-31 12:33:30
415.   Ken Noe
406 That comes with Peter Gammons too.
2008-07-31 12:33:47
416.   27indigo
Stark says Maddux not coming to LA
2008-07-31 12:34:01
417.   Jon Weisman
406 - What's weird is that your "Breaking News" appeared just at the bottom of my browser, and my heart actually skipped a beat because I had to scroll to get to your next sentence.
2008-07-31 12:34:05
418.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Great e-mail sent in to Rome:
"Brett Favre for Manny Ramirez, and let's be done with it.
Signed, an FBI hostage negotiator."
2008-07-31 12:34:56
419.   The Blue Legend
25 more minutes Ding Ding
2008-07-31 12:35:04
420.   bigcpa
Could be that Boston is debating between Hermida and Ethier offers. What I fear is we kick in LaRoche.
2008-07-31 12:35:20
421.   regfairfield
Kevin Goldstein (12:30:50 PM PT): LeverettB24 (Boston, MA): If you were the Red Sox, wouldn't you take Kemp for Manny?

We have about 129 variations of this question in the que. This deal is not available. I repeat. This deal is not available.

2008-07-31 12:36:17
422.   The Blue Legend
I just know Ned is going to blink before Theo, and it's going to haunt us....
2008-07-31 12:36:46
423.   Eric Stephen
So will all the Jason Bay to Tampa headlines center on the Bay/Bay reference, or will they be along the lines of "Devil of a Deal" or something like that?
2008-07-31 12:37:10
424.   GMac In The 909
404 Tech Support!
2008-07-31 12:37:30
425.   bhsportsguy
422 Has he ever blinked on a trade? I am not talking about his free agent deals, but on trades.
2008-07-31 12:37:34
426.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
I'm picturing mayhem in the Dodgers FO, as Logan White and Kim Ng wrestle with Ned to keep him away from the phone.
2008-07-31 12:37:39
427.   RIYank
423 I thought it was against federal law to use the word 'devil' in connection with that team.
2008-07-31 12:38:15
428.   Indiana Jon
The Red Sox have always been my favorite AL team. If we do send Kemp to them, I hope Ned throws me into the deal.
2008-07-31 12:38:54
429.   underdog
Someone please hold me, I'm scared...
2008-07-31 12:39:33
430.   Jon Weisman
Just one month and 21 minutes until the waiver-trade deadline for inclusion on postseason rosters!
2008-07-31 12:39:44
431.   cloakedarbiter
One score minutes left (is that how you use that word?)
2008-07-31 12:40:01
432.   Jon Weisman
426 - Turn your key! I said, turn your key!
2008-07-31 12:40:45
433.   Bob Timmermann
You are correct.
2008-07-31 12:41:47
434.   Ken Noe
Logan: "Just put the phone down, Ned!"
Ned: "You can't stop me. Theo! Theo!"
Kim: "Ned, please, no!"
Ned: "Theo, I'll It's Batman!!"
Batman: "Drop the phone, Mad Hatter! Do it!!"
2008-07-31 12:41:54
435.   D Prouty
I don't want ManRam here if it's only for two months, considering what we would give up. Heyman says part of the deal would be the new team declining the options for 2009, 2010, guaranteeing a rental. Ugh, I'm holding my breath until after the deadline.
2008-07-31 12:42:00
436.   ImprobableImpossible
2008-07-31 12:42:23
437.   RIYank
428 But then you'd be a pink hat. Can you live with that?
2008-07-31 12:43:08
438.   willhite

I'm picturing an old Western with the guy in the white hat and the guy in the black hat wrestling over the six-shooter.

Luckily Kim and Logan have him outnumbered (I hope).

2008-07-31 12:43:22
439.   bigcpa
A source told's Jon Heyman that not only are the Dodgers not offering Matt Kemp for Manny Ramirez, but that they're looking to part with prospects instead of Andre Ethier.
2008-07-31 12:43:25
440.   LogikReader

That joke's been done three times already, once by Manny Ramirez himself.

2008-07-31 12:43:57
441.   LogikReader

Forgot to preface with "hahahahah" because that email was still funny.

2008-07-31 12:44:08
442.   bigcpa
2008-07-31 12:44:17
443.   The Blue Legend
If you are ethier or kemp are you excited or nervous....
2008-07-31 12:44:23
444.   Disabled List
426 , 432 I actually LOL'd at both of those.
2008-07-31 12:44:26
445.   Alex41592
A source told's Jon Heyman that not only are the Dodgers not offering Matt Kemp for Manny Ramirez, but that they're looking to part with prospects instead of Andre Ethier.
2008-07-31 12:44:59
446.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Or, it could be like Private Parts, with Howard Stern, Pig Vomit and the station chief fighting.
"Pig Vomit just hit himself in the head with the phone!"
2008-07-31 12:45:10
447.   Eric Stephen
I was thinking Crimson Tide, but I think I was mistaken.
2008-07-31 12:45:10
448.   PHilldodger
433 Only on this site would I come across a reference to the Systems Analyst. At the time that episode aired, I was in college and one of my roommates was hopeful of becoming a Systems Analyst. We got a good chuckle out of that. It wasn't so funny when he landed a job immediately after graduation making quite a bit more than those of us studying the "Liberal Arts."
2008-07-31 12:45:10
449.   RIYank
439 That would make me happy, except that I have a feeling people say all kinds of thing to Heyman.
A source told SI's Jon Heyman that the Rumanians have cloned a talking donkey.
2008-07-31 12:46:27
450.   still bevens
439 This is the fault of that dastardly and fractured dodgers front office! Curse them for not wanting to make deals proffered by Ken Rosenthal!
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2008-07-31 12:46:31
451.   The Blue Legend
Nothing is official until Rosenthal and Olney say it is....
2008-07-31 12:46:43
452.   Ken Noe
If Heyman's right now, he's admitting he was clueless last night and earlier today. He needs a new source among the Fenway vendors.
2008-07-31 12:47:18
453.   bigcpa
not only are the Dodgers not offering

That double negative really freaked me out. I thought at first we were not only offering Kemp but MORE!

2008-07-31 12:47:43
454.   The Blue Legend
Can't wait for the Dunn for Ethier and 2 prospects headline to pop up.
2008-07-31 12:48:00
455.   RIYank
A source told SI's Jon Heyman that he has no freaking idea what he's talking about.
2008-07-31 12:48:11
456.   D Prouty
439 445 If they can get away with trading only prospects, that 1) Scares me very much which prospects they are giving away and 2) that HAS to mean Pierre and/or Jones is not playing. I will have lost all faith in this franchise if I see a starting outfield of Pierre/Jones/Ramirez with Either AND Kemp on the bench
2008-07-31 12:48:29
457.   Gilberto Reyes
12 more minutes to hold off Ned from a bad decision. Will we make it?
2008-07-31 12:48:57
458.   Marty
A source told's Jon Heyman that not only are the Dodgers not offering Matt Kemp for Manny Ramirez, but that they're insisting Boston take on a Canadian bus rider's head.
2008-07-31 12:49:00
459.   adrian beltre
it sure would be nice to still have carlos santana to sweeten a deal to the sox, who would love to find a varitek successor, im sure.
2008-07-31 12:49:22
460.   GMac In The 909
456 Bench upgraded? Check!
2008-07-31 12:50:56
461.   Tripon
459 Casey Blake is giving us .412 since he's been here.
2008-07-31 12:50:58
462.   The Blue Legend
10 minutes folks...we're in the home stretch
2008-07-31 12:51:45
463.   trainwreck
Time to breath easy.
2008-07-31 12:52:27
464.   sporky
Mr. Heyman seems to have a talking anal sphincter.
2008-07-31 12:52:53
465.   ishXdavid
I've been lurking on this thread, sitting on pins and needles, refreshing every minute or so since I got into work this morning. It's been a tension-filled day, but I had to chime in and say that the biggest development thus far has been the Canadian head taking on a life of its own. Morbid as it sounds, it's provided me with some comic relief as I sit waiting to push the panic button should Colletti trade Kemp away.
2008-07-31 12:53:37
466.   regfairfield
461 And Carlos Santana is hitting .200. Ned's a genius.
2008-07-31 12:53:39
467.   Alex41592
Also, Bay to the Rays is not official yet aside from that one report.
2008-07-31 12:54:22
468.   cargill06
458 please, we could do without those types of jokes. it's in bad bad taste.
2008-07-31 12:54:41
469.   The Blue Legend
i'm curled up in the fetal position shaking under my desk. 1pm can't come fast enough.
2008-07-31 12:54:49
470.   Andrew Shimmin
Something I learned on CSPAN2, this afternoon: you can pay for gasoline with a post-dated check. I was surprised, since I didn't think gas stations took checks at all, still less post-dated ones, but it must be true. It was on CSPAN. It's possible that's only applicable to senior citizens on their way to hospitals, as that was the scenario presented, but still. Good to know.
2008-07-31 12:55:31
471.   trainwreck
This is like the Blair Witch Project, nothing is happening.
2008-07-31 12:55:35
472.   Tripon
2008-07-31 12:56:00
473.   RIYank
467 Excellent. Anybody know what the hold-up is?
2008-07-31 12:56:20
474.   The Blue Legend
bay might still be going to boston according to you know that's legit
2008-07-31 12:57:02
475.   The Blue Legend
bay might still be going to boston according to you know that's legit
2008-07-31 12:57:07
476.   The Blue Legend
bay might still be going to boston according to you know that's legit
2008-07-31 12:57:19
477.   bhsportsguy
468 Marty is having too many Italian beef sandwiches in Chicago.

Go get some ribs Marty.

2008-07-31 12:57:27
478.   Kevin Lewis
I think the Canadian head jokes are too soon. Just like Aids jokes.
2008-07-31 12:57:43
479.   Eric Stephen
This is like the Blair Witch Project

And my head kind of hurts, and I feel a little nauseous.

2008-07-31 12:57:47
480.   underdog
I have to say this is one of our most entertaining threads ever. And that's without anything (Yet! gulp!) happening on the trade front (yet!) Shoulder pats all around. I laughed, I cried, I curled up in the fetal position. Four stars!
2008-07-31 12:57:52
481.   RIYank
Now has also backed off the Bay-to-the-Bay deal. Rays are saying Brignac and Niemann are too much.
2008-07-31 12:58:22
482.   Indiana Jon
473 They're saying it doesn't involve both Brignac and Niemann and that one of those two is on the Rays untouchable list, which is hard to believe.
2008-07-31 12:58:25
483.   Tripon
470 No way a gas station would take a check for payment of gas. Its getting to the point where some gas stations are not allowing credit card purchases.
2008-07-31 12:58:38
484.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
We're melting the Toaster!
2008-07-31 12:58:53
485.   bhsportsguy
480 Did you like the clip?
2008-07-31 13:00:12
486.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
Maybe Ned is just holding out for our old pal SS Julio Lugo in the deal
2008-07-31 13:00:22
487.   scareduck
471 - This is like the Blair Witch Project

Yes, yes it is:

2008-07-31 13:00:54
488.   Kevin Lewis
I don't know who to trust anymore!
2008-07-31 13:03:59
489.   Indiana Jon
I say we do an Ethier/Laroche for Manny/Lowrie deal. That is since we won't let Andy play anyway.
2008-07-31 13:05:17
490.   Indiana Jon
I say we do an Ethier/Laroche for Manny/Lowrie deal. That is since we won't let Andy play anyway.
2008-07-31 13:05:49
491.   overkill94
Sooo, is it over? I'm gonna go lay out in the sun and hope I don't get any bombshells when I come back.
2008-07-31 13:06:07
492.   Disabled List
Reading the comments over the last 30 minutes or so, I have come to the conclusion that there is something seriously wrong with all of us.
2008-07-31 13:08:59
493.   Disabled List
Reading the comments over the last 30 minutes or so, I have come to the conclusion that there is something seriously wrong with all of us.
2008-07-31 13:11:10
494.   bigcpa
Even a non-trade can crash the toaster.
2008-07-31 13:12:14
495.   trainwreck
We can continue DT when we are all in hell.
2008-07-31 13:12:23
496.   Jon Weisman
This is probably the busiest time of the year, so be patient. Your comment may well have gone through.
2008-07-31 13:12:45
497.   RIYank
Wow, Rosenthal made himself look kind of foolish in that last fifteen minutes or so. No, it's off! No, it's back on! Nope, it's dead.
2008-07-31 13:13:37
498.   Kevin Lewis

It would be helpful if we just all had our internet access turned off during this time of the year.

2008-07-31 13:14:04
499.   Indiana Jon
That was a little scary. When I couldn't refresh or get back in, I thought for sure Ned had made a horrible deal and I would come back to find an overload of negative comments.
2008-07-31 13:14:26
500.   underdog
Something seriously wrong with the Toaster, too. Maybe Ned got revenge by hacking into it and crashing its server.
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2008-07-31 13:15:26
501.   dzzrtRatt
I wonder if the lack of trades at the deadline will be blamed on the dysfunctional Dodger office, which has contaminated the entire MLB.
2008-07-31 13:15:38
502.   Neal Pollack
ZOMG! ESPN is reporting that the Dodgers have traded Juan Pierre and Chris Withrow to the Padres for Greg Maddux!
2008-07-31 13:15:39
503.   regfairfield
I think the SBN servers are getting swarmed too. I'm having a really hard time posting on my site.
2008-07-31 13:15:42
504.   sporky
500 It's dead. No, it's alive! Oh wait...
2008-07-31 13:16:11
505.   Indiana Jon
No deal on Bay.
2008-07-31 13:16:13
506.   underdog
497 Just in the last fifteen minutes? ;-)

Seriously, it's great, because now the rest of the world knows what must of us here already knew, which is Rosenthal is a complete fool.

2008-07-31 13:16:23
507.   whodat807
2008-07-31 13:16:54
508.   Kevin Lewis

It would be helpful if we just all had our internet access turned off during this time of the year.

2008-07-31 13:17:53
509.   trainwreck
It's cruel to torture us with trades of Juan Pierre.
2008-07-31 13:18:54
510.   Gen3Blue
I couldn't seem to get to the Toaster for about 10 or 15 minutes. I can't totally let down my guard yet, but it is probably pretty stupid to worry about a Manny trade.
You get a two month rental and then you have to deal with Boras and Manny. Manny couldn't play anywhere but LF so you have deal with Pierre. Shouldn't happen.
2008-07-31 13:18:56
511.   bhsportsguy
509 I never knew Cal fans would be so up in arms about a story about admission guidelines.
2008-07-31 13:19:08
512.   Marty
Sorry, my sick humor gets the best of me sometimes. In my group of friends, nothing is too soon and nothing is off limits. Probably from hanging out with TV writers.
2008-07-31 13:19:29
513.   bigcpa
Ban Neal Pollack. Ban Neal Pollack.
2008-07-31 13:19:34
514.   whodat807
How good a prospect is Chris Withrow?
2008-07-31 13:19:52
515.   bhsportsguy
I am going to wait another hour or so just to make sure that nothing is pending at Bud's desk.
2008-07-31 13:21:10
516.   Louis in SF
In less a trade is still being discussed in the Comiss's office, I think the Dodgers did the smart thing. As much as I was fearful of Manny comming for something more than Ethier, I was also concerned about Jack Wilson. I personally think he is a waist of time and the Dodgers are far better off bringing up Hu and letting Nomar get healthy and pray for Furcal or perhaps if the price is right get Eckstein from Toronto during the waiver period.
2008-07-31 13:21:16
517.   Gen3Blue
502 That is cruel and unusual!
2008-07-31 13:21:23
518.   dzzrtRatt
...Rosenthal is a complete fool.

And yet, there he will be this Saturday, sharing his "insights" with millions during GOTW.

Okay, well back to drooling over this weekend's great pitching matchups. It's actually okay with me that the AZ/LA series is only of interest to our two cities. Records aside, right now these are two of the hottest and hottest-pitching teams in baseball, and it'll be a thrill to see what happens.

2008-07-31 13:21:28
519.   D Prouty
502 Wait, what? I don't see that anywhere. I hope you are not lying sir, wrong time to be toying with Dodger fans' emotions.
2008-07-31 13:21:55
520.   trainwreck
I had no idea how crazy Cal fans were till I went to a game last year. They hate UCLA with a passion. Heck, every UC school seems to.
2008-07-31 13:22:52
521.   bigcpa
If anything we need a Rule 12A banning bogus trade posts in July.
2008-07-31 13:22:57
522.   GobiasIndustries
After all the talks about Bay heading to Tampa Bay or Boston, it appears that the Dodgers may have landed the Pirates left fielder just prior to the 4 p.m. ET deadline. has confirmed that they were a late player in the race for Bay and that it was L.A. One industry source in Pittsburgh believes that a deal between the two clubs has been made.

2008-07-31 13:23:28
523.   fanerman
515 Good idea. Gotta stay on alert.
2008-07-31 13:23:42
524.   regfairfield
I don't even think it's possible to trade Withrow except as a stealth PBTNL type of deal.
2008-07-31 13:24:04
525.   Marty
After all the talks about Bay heading to Tampa Bay or Boston, it appears that the Dodgers may have landed the Pirates left fielder just prior to the 4 p.m. ET deadline.
2008-07-31 13:24:38
526.   larry slimfast
San Diego wouldn't give up Ted Danson for Pierre and anyone... much less Greg Maddux.
2008-07-31 13:24:40
527.   RIYank
When Rosenthal appears on a FOX game, it's just very uncomfortable -- I feel like everyone's thinking, "Gosh, what can we do with this guy, he can't get a real job, okay send him into the stands to grab some dork to talk to." But a lot of people think he writes good columns.
I've always thought he was kind of a nitwit; today I'm convinced.
2008-07-31 13:24:44
528.   GobiasIndustries
Here is the link:
2008-07-31 13:24:55
529.   Indiana Jon
I hope we just gave up Ethier.
2008-07-31 13:24:58
530.   regfairfield
Oh Crap

Will Carroll (1:22:15 PM PT): Manny to Dodgers?

Will Carroll (1:22:51 PM PT): Yep, I have two sources on this one, plus Jon Heyman. NO idea on particulars.

2008-07-31 13:25:14
531.   still bevens
Yankees just picked up the guy we traded to DC for Marlon Anderson.
2008-07-31 13:25:23
532.   Indiana Jon
I hope we just gave up Ethier.
2008-07-31 13:25:52
533.   therickdaddy
Bay for Ethier, sure. Bay for Kemp -- I would not be happy about.
2008-07-31 13:26:00
534.   Neal Pollack
Sorry, guys. I couldn't resist.
2008-07-31 13:26:12
535.   NWdodger is saying the Maddox deal is dead and the Padres have no leverage. I have a hard time seeing the Dodgers giving up a Top 10 pick even with someone else picking up Pierre's contract unless McCourt is filing for bankrupcy.
2008-07-31 13:26:31
536.   whodat807
520 I went to Cal. I went to the UCLA-Cal football game at the Rose Bowl, sitting in the UCLA student section, dressed from head to toe in Cal gear. When Longshore threw a pick after a long, potentially game winning drive, and the UCLA fans cheered and started chanting "OH-ver-RATE-d"... it was the worst sports moment I've ever experienced.
2008-07-31 13:26:51
537.   Neal Pollack
Sorry, guys. I was hoping that by saying it, it would become true. I couldn't resist.
2008-07-31 13:26:52
538.   D Prouty
Oh God, this is from Heyman

The Red Sox traded Manny Ramirez to the Dodgers late Thursday afternoon, has learned.

Nothing on who we gave up

Excuse me I must prepare for the worst

2008-07-31 13:27:01
539.   still bevens
Yankees just picked up the guy we traded to DC for Marlon Anderson.
2008-07-31 13:27:18
540.   trainwreck
I am sure a good number of us thought it was funny. Never hide the dark humor!
2008-07-31 13:27:42
541.   underdog
So we acquired Jason Bay and Manny Ramirez? Yeah, that sounds realistic.
2008-07-31 13:27:51
542.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Back-to-back posts on ESPN's chat with Keri and Neyer:
Carlos (Los Angeles): Sports Illustrated is reporting that Manny Ramirez was traded to the Dodgers. Can you confirm?

TJ (Washington, DC): Rob- is reporting Bay to the DODGERS

2008-07-31 13:28:23
543.   still bevens
Yankees just picked up the guy we traded to DC for Marlon Anderson.
2008-07-31 13:28:30
544.   RIYank
531 Who? Oh, the pitcher? Yadier something?

I think that's still a maybe.

God, I hope you got Bay and not Manny...

2008-07-31 13:28:56
545.   ImprobableImpossible
By Jon Heyman,

The Red Sox traded Manny Ramirez to the Dodgers late Thursday afternoon, has learned.

2008-07-31 13:29:43
546.   underdog
So we acquired Jason Bay and Manny Ramirez? Yeah, that sounds realistic.
2008-07-31 13:30:04
547.   GMac In The 909
How can anyone work in these conditions?
2008-07-31 13:30:11
548.   trainwreck
Sorry, but Will is not batting 1.000 here with Manny info.
2008-07-31 13:30:11
549.   still bevens
Sorry for all this posting. Stupid refreshing getting the better of me.
2008-07-31 13:30:21
550.   blue22
531 - Old friend Jhonny Nunez is a Yank.
Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2008-07-31 13:30:27
551.   fanerman
Please not the Bison. Please not the Bison.
2008-07-31 13:30:32
552.   cargill06 says we got bay

no joke

2008-07-31 13:30:48
553.   cloakedarbiter
In other news, Eric Gagne just got ejected from the Cubs-Brewers game after plunking Jim Edmonds in the top of the 9th, Cubs leading 9-1.
2008-07-31 13:30:54
554.   NWdodger

Says Manny to LA

2008-07-31 13:31:16
555.   Indiana Jon
The Sox are getting Bay in a three way. That may be good for the Dodgers. The Pirates don't necessarily need an outfielder back.
2008-07-31 13:31:24
556.   Eric Stephen
Jason Bay is part of the Manny to LA deal...Bay to Boston.


2008-07-31 13:31:39
557.   ImprobableImpossible

It looks like we took the Marlins' place in the three-way deal. Ethier to Pirates for Bay, then Bay to Red Sox for Manny.

2008-07-31 13:31:42
558.   fanerman
AHHHHH! Too much confusion. I can't get no relief.
2008-07-31 13:31:45
559.   RIYank
Oh, Nunez.
For the former Attorney General?
2008-07-31 13:31:48
560.   underdog
Bay for who? Ethier and Hu? If so, as much as I like Ethier... and Hu... I may have to re-make my opinion of NedCo.
2008-07-31 13:31:59
561.   Marty
What is this work you speak of?
2008-07-31 13:32:11
562.   Terry A
SI: Manny to Dodgers, Bay to Sox. No word on the Dodgers' end of the deal.
2008-07-31 13:32:32
563.   Uncle Miltie
From what I'm understanding, it looks like we traded for Jason Bay and then traded Bay + for Manny. I think I would have rather kept Bay....

So who's in the deal....I'm guessing Ethier and LaRoche for sure....

2008-07-31 13:32:35
564.   D Prouty
SI says we got Manny. says we got Bay. I know we couldn't have gotten both.

My head is about to explode if this is not cleared up soon

2008-07-31 13:34:18
565.   Marty
Pirates to get 4 minor leaguers. so no Kemp. Eithier or Kershaw.
2008-07-31 13:34:50
566.   Landonkk
2008-07-31 13:34:52
567.   trainwreck
I'd rather have Bay, but I'm guessing I am about to feel what it's like to be in prison.
2008-07-31 13:35:02
568.   Indiana Jon
Four minor leaguers to the Pirates!!!!!!! At least it's not Kemp.
2008-07-31 13:35:23
569.   fanerman
565 Per who? WHO??!?!?!?
2008-07-31 13:35:41
570.   D4P
I think I would have rather kept Bay

Me too.

2008-07-31 13:35:51
571.   Kevin Lewis
Why wouldn't we just keep Bay instead of going after Manny?


2008-07-31 13:35:55
572.   RIYank
I don't get it. Why wouldn't Coletti just keep Jason Bay instead of swapping him for Manny? There must be money and/or prospects involved.
2008-07-31 13:36:10
573.   ImprobableImpossible
Manny Ramirez has been traded to the Dodgers in a three-team blockbuster, pending the approval of the commissioner's office, according to a source with knowledge of the deal.
2008-07-31 13:36:15
574.   Eric Stephen
Announcement to come in conjunction with the WBC press conference.
2008-07-31 13:36:42
575.   underdog
As long as it's not Kemp I'll live with this one. But how can the Dodgers afford the rest of Manny's salary? Or is Boston eating some of it?

God, this is all so torturous.

2008-07-31 13:37:39
576.   Eric Stephen
"The Pirates will receive Andy LaRoche and right-hander Bryan Morris from the Dodgers and outfielder Damien Moss and releiver Craig Hansen from the Red Sox.

The Red Sox will pay all of the approximately $7 million remaining on Ramirez's contract."


2008-07-31 13:37:42
577.   whodat807
God this is torture.
2008-07-31 13:38:28
578.   D Prouty
Jason Bay is headed to Boston as part of the deal, has learned. The Pirates will get four minor leaguers in the three-way trade.

Maybe there's hope? I hope there's hope.

2008-07-31 13:38:41
579.   Disabled List
The four minor leaguers have to all be coming from the Dodgers. Bye bye Andy LaRoche, that's for sure.
2008-07-31 13:38:53
580.   Jim Hitchcock
512 What would be really weird was if they tie this guy in with all the feet found in B.C.
2008-07-31 13:38:59
581.   RIYank
I see, a lot of people shared my thought there.
I bet Boston is throwing in more. They couldn't deal directly with Pittsburgh, because Manny would refuse to go there. And the Dodgers couldn't make a deal work with the Pirates because they (you) weren't willing to part with enough to get Bay. The Sox kick in something, cash maybe or prospects.

Could that be it?

2008-07-31 13:39:07
582.   larry slimfast
guess here... LaRoche seems certainly gone but he would be blocked by (or block) the guy they drafted from vandy Alvarez or whoever...

The rest are probably Hu, McDonald and another pitcher...

2008-07-31 13:39:07
583.   D4P
I kinda figured the LaRoche boys would be united...
2008-07-31 13:39:23
584.   RELX
This deal doesn't make sense--our OF is not Manny, Kemp, Jones, Pierre and Ethier??
2008-07-31 13:39:23
585.   trainwreck
2008-07-31 13:39:43
587.   kngoworld
I swear I am shivering and shaking and hardly breathing.
2008-07-31 13:39:55
588.   Marty
So we have Manny, Pierre, Kemp, Jones and Either in the outfield. Doesn't make sense
2008-07-31 13:39:59
589.   ImprobableImpossible
LaRoche and Morris for Manny.

I can accept that, Ned.

2008-07-31 13:40:18
590.   Indiana Jon
Laroche, thats sucks, but at least he will get to play now. Good luck Andy. This is a good deal to get Manny's bat, but only if we go with Manny/Kemp/Ethier.
2008-07-31 13:40:24
591.   RIYank
Who's Damien Moss?

Brandon Moss, maybe?

2008-07-31 13:40:46
592.   Eric Stephen
The only way this deal makes sense is if Pierre and Andruw are on the bench. Otherwise, you gave up LaRoche for the benefit of benching Ethier.
2008-07-31 13:41:05
593.   D Prouty
ESPN confirmed Manny to LA
2008-07-31 13:41:14
594.   JoeyP
Giving up LaRoche & Bryan Morris for 2 months of Manny.

I dont know how I feel about that.

The Dodgers are really going to need to re-tool pretty much their entire infield next year.

Colletti's going out like gangbusters.
He's burning the entire thing down lol...

2008-07-31 13:41:25
595.   surfing slug
LaRoche and Morris for 2 months of Manny?
2008-07-31 13:41:50
596.   underdog
This is insane. I don't know what to think. On the one hand, it will be HUGE and fun to have Manny. And they still have Kemp. On the other hand I'm sad to lose LaRoche if that's true. And our OF is way too crowded. That part particularly makes NO sense.
2008-07-31 13:41:53
597.   RELX
As I said, this can't be right--we now have five starting outfielders???
2008-07-31 13:42:02
598.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
If that's all we're giving up, I'm quite OK with this deal.
Two-month rental = compensatory draft picks after Manny walks. And Manny definitely is a Type A free agent.
2008-07-31 13:42:39
599.   Ken Noe
In the end, Ned did what we all feared he would do: mortgage part of our future to save his job and please Bill Plaschke.
2008-07-31 13:42:47
600.   Penguin
espn news just said the manny story isn't dead...and specifically mentioned the Dodgers. God i can't wait till this is over.
Show/Hide Comments 601-650
2008-07-31 13:42:51
601.   Neal Pollack
I like Andy LaRoche, too, but if the Dodgers do the right thing and play Ethier over Jones/Pierre, this trade makes this team VERY tough to beat, at least in the NL West.
2008-07-31 13:42:54
602.   Xeifrank
If we get Ramirez for LaRoche, we now have 5 starting OFers?
vr, Xei
2008-07-31 13:43:01
603.   trainwreck
Alright, Canuck, pack your bag of knives we are headed to Los Angeles!!!

BTW, I now don't want Kim Ng or Logan White to be GM. I want a new management team, because I have no faith in this one.

2008-07-31 13:43:06
604.   D4P
Colletti's going out like gangbusters.
He's burning the entire thing down lol...

Sabean must be very pleased with his agent's performance.

2008-07-31 13:43:15
605.   Indiana Jon
Speculation we may have received Jack Wilson too.
2008-07-31 13:43:25
606.   Disabled List
Jon Heyman: The club options on Ramirez's contract for $20 million each in both 2009 and '10 were dropped.

So we traded LaRoche and Morris for two months of Manny Ramirez. If the Dodgers do anything but win the World Series this year, this deal will be a bust.

2008-07-31 13:43:28
607.   RELX
594 . With five starting OF's, we won't need no stinkin' infield! They can have Martin and Loney play free safety.
2008-07-31 13:43:35
608.   Marty
So, now we are renting a LF and a 3B. Great.
2008-07-31 13:43:38
609.   JoeyP
Its definitely not as bad as giving up Kemp for 2 months of Manny.

The Dodgers have plenty of everyday OF'ers now.

2008-07-31 13:43:44
610.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
588 - Andruw is now nicknamed "Manny Ramirez's Legs."
2008-07-31 13:43:52
611.   ImprobableImpossible
Can't wait for that first conversation between Manny and Kent.

And does this mean we need a permanent doorman at the left-field bullpen gate now?

2008-07-31 13:43:55
612.   Uncle Miltie
I'd like to reiterate that I'd much rather have Bay than Manny. Ned and McCourt are only concerned about big names....

Good luck Andy.....Ned don't let the door hit you on the way out

2008-07-31 13:43:55
613.   NWdodger
Also of note the Dodgers will be moving to the AL to use Manny as a DH and will also employ a Rover position similar to women's softball to utilize Pierre while not having a SS because they have none healthy on their roster.
2008-07-31 13:44:28
614.   D Prouty
Haven't heard of Morris? Anyone know about his potential? If LaRoche is gone, do we eventually play DeWitt next year? Who's going to start now in the outfield now? I will vomit if Pierre/Jones/Manny is the starting outfield.
2008-07-31 13:44:29
615.   Eric Stephen
It is Brandon. Rosenthal corrected the typo.
2008-07-31 13:44:40
616.   underdog
I would actually feel happy for LaRoche if this is true, at least that he gets to play with his bro and get some starts. I'd be okay if the Dodgers re-sign C Blake or if DeWitt wins it next year. And don't mind losing Morris. But the crowded outfield part makes NO sense. Does Ned think we have a DH in the NL?
2008-07-31 13:44:46
617.   Who Is Karim Garcia
LaRoche couldn't be part of our present, I don't see how he would ever be part of our future.

I can't wait for a Manny-Kemp-Ethier OF.



2008-07-31 13:44:51
618.   Landonkk
I like this deal if it is true...

The fact that we have 5 OF'ers has me questioning the validity though. I am still scared we threw in Ethier somewhere.

2008-07-31 13:45:18
619.   Kevin Lewis
There has to be another deal in the mix, right? We can't have 5 starters in the OF
2008-07-31 13:45:34
620.   Lexinthedena
I would have rather kept Bay, but maybe the Pirates weren't giving up Bay unless they received the Sox prospects. If Pierre and Jones sit, the Dodgers will run away with the division.
2008-07-31 13:45:39
621.   JoeyP
So who comes off the 25 man roster to make room for 2 months of Manny being Manny?
2008-07-31 13:45:40
622.   RELX

"The Pirates will be announcing a trade shortly, as they are a part of a three-team trade that involves the Pirates, Dodgers and Red Sox.

According to an industry source, Manny Ramirez has been dealt to the Dodgers.

The Pirates are believed to have gotten Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen from Boston and Bryan Morris and Andy LaRoche, the brother of Pirates' Adam LaRoche, from Los Angeles.

Boston is believed to have received Bay. There is speculation that Jack Wilson, too, may have been dealt (to Los Angeles), though that has been unconfirmed.

None of the three teams has confirmed anything as of now."

2008-07-31 13:45:50
623.   GobiasIndustries
The Pirates will be announcing a trade shortly, as they are a part of a three-team trade that involves the Pirates, Dodgers and Red Sox.

According to an industry source, Manny Ramirez has been dealt to the Dodgers.

The Pirates are believed to have gotten Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen from Boston and Bryan Morris and Andy LaRoche, the brother of Pirates' Adam LaRoche, from Los Angeles.

Boston is believed to have received Bay. There is speculation that Jack Wilson, too, may have been dealt (to Los Angeles), though that has been unconfirmed.

None of the three teams has confirmed anything as of now.

2008-07-31 13:46:05
624.   GMac In The 909
597 The plan is to not use a shortstop and have Jones and Pierre alternate as an OF rover.
2008-07-31 13:46:07
625.   Landonkk
WBC Press Conference is streaming from now.
2008-07-31 13:46:13
626.   regfairfield
Everywhere is slammed right now.
2008-07-31 13:46:23
628.   RIYank
I think the Dodgers do okay out of this -- of course I don't know as much about LaRoche as you guys do. The team doesn't pay for Manny's services, and you get the draft picks when he walks. If the picks compensate for the two prospects, you basically get a great bat for August and September and don't pay for it. Not bad.
2008-07-31 13:46:23
629.   fanerman
Some men aren't looking for anything logical. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

I think Ned Colletti is one of those men.

2008-07-31 13:46:55
630.   Marty
If Wilson was really in this too, then Eithier, at the least, is gone.
2008-07-31 13:47:17
631.   Wilbert Robinson
Can somebody plz confirm or deny whether or not many is a Gamer?!
2008-07-31 13:47:26
632.   ImprobableImpossible
We had two excellent young third basemen.

They were both ready or just about ready for their shot.

One of them was bound to be moved.

The writing has been on the wall for at least four months that LaRoche would be the one to go.

Getting Manny for two months out of that scenario isn't too bad.

2008-07-31 13:47:27
633.   underdog
On the plus side... I can't wait to see Manny here in SF next week. That's gonna be awesome.

I have 1-2 extra tickets for the Friday the 8th game in SF if any of you are interested and up here in the bay area, let me know asap. Tix are good seats. underdog8 at gmail dot com

2008-07-31 13:47:47
634.   regfairfield
Only thing I can say for sure right now: man does our defense suck.
2008-07-31 13:48:04
635.   D4P
Manny will no doubt be a great influence on our younger players.
2008-07-31 13:48:17
636.   Warren
Sounds good to me. Good job Ned.
2008-07-31 13:48:36
637.   RELX
627 . Colletti, Torre, McCourt, whoever else was part of this, damn you all to Hell. And Ramirez can go there as well.

628 . RIYank
I think the Dodgers do okay out of this

Fellas, do I detect a difference of opinion?

2008-07-31 13:49:06
638.   underdog
if the Dodgers got Jack Wilson, too, then I'm much more in favor of this trade.

So how many early draft picks could we potentially have now, 17? Yeesh.

2008-07-31 13:49:07
639.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
FWIW, Neyer likes the trade for the Dodgers.
2008-07-31 13:49:21
640.   Kevin Lewis
If this means an OF of Manny/Kemp/Ethier than it could be awesome. But something tells me Ethier is going somewhere.
2008-07-31 13:50:03
641.   GMac In The 909
629 Why so serious?
2008-07-31 13:50:04
642.   trainwreck
How much do they cost if you don't mind saying?
2008-07-31 13:50:36
643.   dzzrtRatt
I'll miss what Andy LaRoche could have been.

But, objectively, this is not a bad deal. Not a damn-it-to-hell kind of deal, although I'm sure a few such comments are loading up. It's a win-now deal that has a tolerable impact on the future.

Hey, at least he didn't trade LaRoche for Dennys Baez.

Another way of looking at it. We've spent a lot of money on Derek Lowe, Jeff Kent and Nomar. They will all be gone next year and we'll be a lot younger. Getting Manny optimizes that expenditure if it gets us a title. If.

2008-07-31 13:50:36
644.   alex 7
Odd to think the Pirates wouldn't take Andre Ethier instead of LaRoche. Would fill Bay's spot for Pittsburgh, ease the OF logjam in L.A., and keep LaRoche in L.A. for next year's barren infield.
2008-07-31 13:50:51
645.   Harold M Johnson
Manny is one of the best clutch hitters of the last 5 years, and he hasn't lost that.

If we get to the playoffs, that will be huge.

LaRoche is a future solid player, and while it would've been great to finally give him the shot he deserves, at least this moves keeps things very interesting in the NL West and in the NL in general for the rest of the season. I'm on board with this one.

2008-07-31 13:50:55
646.   Uncle Miltie
Ned is a freaking genius. I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier!

Manny plays 7 innings, Juan Pierre pinch runs for him in the late innings, and then Andruw Jones will come in late for defensive purposes. It only took Ned $47 million to fill the LF spot!

2008-07-31 13:50:56
647.   fanerman
What's the over/under on how many Pierre/Jones/Manny starts there'll be?
2008-07-31 13:51:39
648.   whodat807
I'd be jumping out of my shoes if we traded for Bay. For Manny, I'm merely ok with the trade. All bets are off if it turns out we traded Ethier to acquire Wilson, though.
2008-07-31 13:51:41
649.   Eric Stephen
I almost bought a LaRoche jersey shirt earlier this year too.
2008-07-31 13:51:51
650.   regfairfield
644 They're probably thinking McLouth/McCutchen/Doumit in the long term. They've got nothing at third.
Show/Hide Comments 651-700
2008-07-31 13:51:58
651.   JoeyP
627--You gotta include Logan White in there too. Everything that is written, he signs off on the deal.

Having Manny for 2 months I'm actually looking forward too. He'll at least provide entertainment.

If the deal had been DeWitt/Morris---> that would have been a ton better.

Ethier has to be going to the Pirates if the Dodgers are also getting Wilson back.

There's only so many spots on the 25 man roster.

2008-07-31 13:52:01
652.   Who Is Karim Garcia
You have to give something to get something. Manny providing power is worth it. LaRoche had already been passed up by Blake, at least in the eyes of management.

I think our pitching depth can withstand the loss of Morris.

At worst, we make a run this year and replenish with draft picks when Manny leaves.

I can dig it.

2008-07-31 13:52:29
653.   Ken Noe
I'm hoping this is as simple as Jones pulling his [insert muscle]. But if we got Wilson....
2008-07-31 13:52:40
654.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Going out on a limb, I'm going to say the Dodgers were on the receiving end of another team's desperation - for once.
Once the FLA-BOS-PIT deal fell through, NedCo acted quickly and presented a lowball offer.
I will gladly take two months of Manny plus two high draft picks for a pair of minor leaguers.
2008-07-31 13:52:58
655.   underdog
642 60$ each. Weird, I could've sworn I emailed you on these -- did you not get it? Maybe I have the wrong address...
2008-07-31 13:53:11
656.   surfing slug

If you saw how slow Manny was running to first base on a ground ball heading down the third base line the other night, he's not a gamer.

2008-07-31 13:53:41
657.   Indiana Jon
644 I think the Pirates are looking for McCutchen to replace Bay in the OF. Getting Laroche, Moss (who will also replace Bay/Nady), and a couple pitchers is a pretty good haul for Bay.
2008-07-31 13:53:48
658.   Disabled List
Good God, what are we going to do with our outfield? I guess Pierre and Ethier platoon now. Pierre in CF and Manny in LF is going to be horrific to watch.
2008-07-31 13:53:57
659.   Terry A
2008-07-31 13:55:27
660.   dzzrtRatt
640 That's the rub. You've got to figure Kemp and Manny are locks for a lineup spot, but what happens to Ethier, Pierre and Jones?

Even those who think defense is totally irrelevant have to be concerned about an outfield with Manny and Pierre in the corners.

2008-07-31 13:55:35
661.   Who Is Karim Garcia
It's a shame Manny won't be here for tonight.
2008-07-31 13:55:44
662.   JoeyP
Morris/LaRoche for 2 months of Manny is way way way better than Santana/Meloan for Casey Blake.

If all the Dodgers gave up was Morris/LaRoche, then I have to say this is one of Ned's better deals.

At least he traded for a good player.

2008-07-31 13:55:58
663.   bhsportsguy
I told you that is why I wait an hour for jumping into the yeah no trade pool.
2008-07-31 13:56:06
664.   Ken Noe
New York Times says Theo kept pushing until Ned folded:
2008-07-31 13:56:20
665.   elandcohen
Think of it this way. the Dodgers traded Larouche (whom for whatever reason they did not like) and Morris for 2 months of Manny & 2 first round picks as compensation when Manny leaves. Not bad
2008-07-31 13:56:24
666.   RIYank
637 ;-)
Well, everyone likes their own prospects a little more.
And, as I said, I might be off on LaRoche's value.
2008-07-31 13:56:26
667.   Indiana Jon
Why would Manny want the two 20 million dollar option dropped? He's not going to get that much as a free agent is he?
2008-07-31 13:56:43
668.   Marty
If Either hasn't moved, then get ready for a Jones/Pierre and Kemp/Eithier platoon.

Good Times ahead.

2008-07-31 13:56:54
669.   D4P
Manny should draw a lot of walks in the #3 spot with Kent hitting behind him.
2008-07-31 13:57:26
670.   fanerman
Just Another OutFielder For Ned Colletti.
2008-07-31 13:57:47
671.   Eric Stephen
My initial reaction:

1) I'm heartbroken to see LaRoche go
2) I absolutely love Manny Ramirez, quirkiness and all
3) At least in giving up LaRoche, it was for one of the best players in MLB
4) If Wilson is involved, and Ethier is gone, I don't like it.

2008-07-31 13:57:47
672.   jujibee
644. Especially odd since they drafted Pedro Alvarez who is supposed to be close to MLB ready and a masher.
2008-07-31 13:57:48
673.   JoeyP
658--Why couldnt the Dodgers go with:


Druw/Pierre can collect splinters on the bench.

2008-07-31 13:58:10
674.   D Prouty
Looking ahead to next year, we get possibly 4 or 5 draft picks from Blake and Manny leaving, and we have a whole infield save 1B to replace. If we look in-house we have Hu, Dewitt, possibly DeJesus? Who's out there on the free agent block for infielders this offseason?
2008-07-31 13:58:11
675.   rjc41276
Outstanding deal for the Dodgers.

This is a textbook illustration of how you use prospects in a trade EFFECTIVELY to improve your team.

2008-07-31 13:58:28
676.   trainwreck
Don't think I've forgotten about you either, LA media.
2008-07-31 13:58:41
677.   Linkmeister
If this is true, the question becomes "does Ramirez's bat overcome his defensive deficiencies?"

I'm not sure.

2008-07-31 13:58:44
678.   Ken Noe
Rosenthal: Sox will pay all of Manny's salary.
2008-07-31 13:58:45
679.   surfing slug

I believe Manny thinks he can get 4yr 100mil contract.

2008-07-31 13:58:49
680.   Alex41592
I fully expect Andruw Jones to be DFA'd. Manny/Kemp/Ethier is an AMAZING outfield. I love the deal. I'm also at work and just put in the soundbyte. I'm shaking over the whole thing.
2008-07-31 13:59:15
681.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
668 - No way is Kemp platooned.
2008-07-31 13:59:18
682.   Terry A
So what do we think now about the alleged "payroll-neutral" mandate?
2008-07-31 13:59:21
683.   D4P
From Rotoworld:

No word yet on whether agent Scott Boras was also able to add a clause forcing the Dodgers not to offer Ramirez arbitration. Ramirez would be more valuable as a free agent this winter if the teams pursuing him didn't have to worry about losing a draft pick. The Dodgers might not want to offer arbitration anyway.

2008-07-31 13:59:43
684.   fanerman
673 It's the only way the deal makes sense for me...
2008-07-31 14:00:09
685.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
I haven't seen anywhere, aside from here, that Ethier and Jack Wilson are on the move.
2008-07-31 14:00:29
686.   whodat807
Anybody in the D.C. area for the Dodgers-Nats series in late August? I want to see these new look Dodgers with my own eyes.
2008-07-31 14:00:44
687.   Marty
If they actually DFA'd Jones, I'd like this deal a lot more.
2008-07-31 14:01:03
688.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Jones might now be the world's most expensive defensive replacement.
2008-07-31 14:01:28
689.   Jon Weisman
2008-07-31 14:01:28
690.   Indiana Jon
685 MLB Trade Blogs mentioned Wilson as speculation. Ethier rumors come from here.
2008-07-31 14:01:30
691.   fanerman
How soon can Manny be in the line-up?
2008-07-31 14:01:50
692.   Terry A
2008-07-31 14:02:13
693.   JoeyP
Either hasn't moved, then get ready for a Jones/Pierre and Kemp/Eithier platoon.

So the Dodgers now have 1 everyday OF'er.
And 4 guys platooning in 2 spots.

Thats something.

Pee Wee has to be upset...;)

2008-07-31 14:02:24
694.   whodat807
677 You'd rather have Jones, with his Gold Glove and his .166 average in the lineup rather than a guy who's hitting .299 with 20 HRs?
2008-07-31 14:02:28
695.   alex 7
fun to look at:

Kemp CF
Ethier RF
Martin C
Ramirez LF
Kent 2B
Loney 1B
Nomar SS
Blake 3B
Thighmaster P

That is LEGIT.

2008-07-31 14:02:34
696.   regfairfield
This comes down to who Manny replaces. Kemp is already a more valuable player this year thanks to Manny's defense and Ethier isn't far behind. If he replaces either of those two, we gave up LaRoche and Morris for nothing.
2008-07-31 14:03:01
697.   ToyCannon
I never ever thought I'd see Manny and Kent and Bowa on the same team. I would have lost a lot of money betting against this trade ever happening.

Manny in Left Field for the Dodgers. It is a big name and LA loves it's big names. Bet the place is hopping this weekend.

Now it all comes down to who Torre plays on how big a trade this was for us.

Sweeney be gone.

2008-07-31 14:04:26
698.   Gen3Blue
Boras would have too agree to not accept arbitration for us to get two draft picks.
On the other hand, I guess we could pay to get Manny's 37 year without any more, which might be OK.
2008-07-31 14:04:29
699.   underdog
678 Whoa... if true, that's great.

Except for messing up the arbitration/draft pick thing for next year if that part's true, too.

Any word on whether there's any other players attached to this?

2008-07-31 14:05:16
700.   DodgerBakers
Manny for rest of 2008 per Marcel projections:
.287/.386/.516 with 11 HR and 12 2B
Show/Hide Comments 701-750
2008-07-31 14:05:50
701.   Louis in SF
Nomar to the DL, to make room for Manny?
2008-07-31 14:06:29
702.   D Prouty
664 Theo pushed us until we folded but LaRoche/Morris is all we gave up? Sure. I love LaRoche and thought he would have succeeded here had he been given a full outright chance this year at third, but essentially we got Manny (for free plus compensation picks) for two minor leaguers. We got a good deal.
2008-07-31 14:08:16
703.   CanuckDodger
651 -- If White approved this, then damn him too. But I see no reason to believe he approved it. People were just assuming he had some sort of veto power. Does he have influence? Sure. But in this case, his opinion could have been asked for and it was over-ruled.

I think it comes down to McCourt. McCourt has sided with White in the past, but today he may have sided with Colletti. In fact, he may have ordered Colletti to get a deal done. At the board, somebody there posted that they have a friend who works in a low level marketing department job at Dodger Stadium. He says his friend told him that the talk around the office was that McCourt was furious when he heard about the Angels landing a big fish like Teixeira. So I can see getting Ramirez as a McCourt-driven move to "keep up" with the Angels. And of course for McCourt it would help that Ramirez was a Red Sox hero. This is a PR-driven trade to make Plashke happy, basically, but also a "Win Now" trade since LaRoche and Morris obviously weren't going to contribute anything this year.

2008-07-31 14:10:31
704.   Jon Weisman
I repeat, new post up top.
2008-07-31 14:12:31
705.   Mike De Leon
I'm AMAZED that anyone here would want Manny or Maddux. I don't care what Maddux did in 2006 or 98, 99, 2000 etc. This is 08 and he has pretty much shown that he is on the wrong side of the hill. Besides that someone would have to be shipped to make room for him. Do really believe that Sweeny's going to get DFA'd? News flash if it hasn't happened by now it ain't going to happen and the likely candidate would be DY cause JP and AJ, much as you guys would like to believe they are, aren't going anywhere. And you're using the same excuses the neD uses for JP ' HE's great in the club house and he'd teach the young guys so much', gee that's worth getting rid of one of the only viable bats off bench the Dodgers have left. Then there's the very real possibility that the way he's pitched this year isn't an aberration but has become the norm. Then what? just take him out of the line up? put him on the DL?

I also can't figure out why so many of you undervalue Ethier so much. Compared to Manny Andre's 1000% better in the field has above average speed, a gun for an arm and although his bat might not be in Manny's class it's still solid and remember Manny plays 1/2 of his games in an EXTREME hitters park. Add to that that Manny has already said that he doesn't want his option picked up so if it is he'll probably make the Dodger FO and the fans wish they hadn't gotten him. Whereas Andre has done nothing but go out and do his job regardless of how he's gotten jacked by torre. If his option isn't picked up than deN has given away an above average OFer for 2 months of Manny and now has to go out and find another OF comparable to what Ethier brought. Or he sticks with an OF of PJ, AJ and Kemp which would REALLY send you guys into howling mode. All in all I'm just amazed that you guys really think a deal for Maddux and/or Manny would actually be a good one.

2008-07-31 14:21:11
706.   Mike De Leon
LaRoche gets sent for a 2 month rental on a below average fielding OF?!? That's it I'm done. I refuse to watch, root or support the Dodgers in any way til deN is gone. Later guys.
2008-07-31 14:21:24
707.   D Prouty
405 Ethier being gone looks to be speculation. I'd be against this trade if he were somehow gone. However, and this has yet to be mentioned, there is still a huge discrepancy between AL and NL, so I predict Manny has a huge August, September, and October, because this trade also makes us favorites in the NL West. And Ned actually did something that's not catastrophic. He didn't sacrifice a Kemp, Kershaw, Ethier, or someone else that our future hinged on besides LaRoche and he got back a positively impacting player who is a big bat that hasn't lost it like AJ has. It's not so bad to want him on our team.
2008-07-31 14:29:06
708.   D Prouty
707 Rather that was directed at 705 My bad.
2008-07-31 14:30:40
709.   Gilberto Reyes
Walter Alston will not allow Manny to wear his number 24.
2008-07-31 17:16:39
710.   3upn3down
Manny is confirmed on an American Airlines flight to arrive at LAX tomorrow 8/1. Don't ask me how I know.

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