Can we bring water balloons to the picnic?

I don't think I've h ad to fill those things in over a decade, but I remember messing up a great deal.

I'm assuming there will be plenty of negatives following my post, so here is some positives.

Chad Billingsley
Clayton Kershaw

They will be tough to beat in any playoff series. Even with Torre as manager and Pierre in center.

Re Vishal's 1112 in the previous thread - she does have that look in her eye, doesn't she?

http://tinyurl.com/63nyur

There was a time when I would have been rather jealous. I'm not allowed to utter such thoughts anymore.

I'm assuming there will be plenty of negatives following my post, so here are* some positives.

Chad Billingsley
Clayton Kershaw

They will be tough to beat in any playoff series. Even with Torre as manager and Pierre in center.

Did Manny receive many off days (rest days) in Boston the past couple years, or does he play every game?

4 Kershaw will not be starting if we make the playoffs.

Right now, he sits at 115 IP. His limit is 160-170 on the year (which translates to roughly 9 more starts at 6 IP each).

Going into this thread, 3,800 comments since 12:01 a.m. Thursday. Amazing.

It always bugged me that he was on an inning limit and not a pitch count limit. Like tonight he threw a 6 pitch inning and an 8 pitch inning.

Manny's changing his number to 30, Casey Blake's current number.

(from E.J. Stephens of The Magazine of Santa Clara)

Someone is trying to muscle in on my racket! There's only room for one person on DT with the first initial E and last name that starts with Stephen!

7
Sounds like its time for a pledge drive!

Hey, people! Be sure to click on the "Support Dodger Thoughts" links to your right!

Manny played in 100 of the 107 Red Sox games he was on the team for. The last game he had off was June 18th (not counting yesterday).

Vishal, I posted that Nicollette Sheridan photo a couple days back, and was rewarded with images of Katherine Helmond from Brazil.

13 I didn't post any links. I merely mentioned!

Mentioned, I says!

Lost in tonight's exciting game was that The Unit picked up win #293.

14
That's like saying "hey, there's the three mammary chick from Total Recall, and she's right behind you," and expecting someone not to turn around.

15
...and I can't wait for people to claim that Randy Johnson will be the LAST 300 game winner. Just like Glavine. Just like Maddux. Etc, etc.

And for his last trick, trade a potential star 3b before age 25 for a fifth outfielder.

When the alcohol buzz wears off on most of us...oh in say 10 weeks, we'll realize we have Dewitt,Nomar or Blake accepting arb at 3b next year. Or 3b number 22 since Beltre left 4 years ago.

Gave away Navarro, now Laroche. For a PR move and a chance to get his owner off his back.

Dead man walking. And a bigger mess than Kevin Malone...$115mil and all these transactions.

I want my two pitching prospects, my catching prospect and our 3b for the next 5 years back.

Utterly ridiculous.And frankly I'm shocked at how many bright people here accept this whole mess of a July.

This GM had a legendary, historical and absolutely atrocious three year run here.

Truly one of a kind.

18
And a bigger mess than Kevin Malone

You had me until this point.

Was at the game tonight. Hard to believe this line-up could be so boring, yet they are. I went expecting electricity and instead I yawned.

One thing I did observe: Frank was visably discusted when A. Jones struck out in the bottom of the 5th.

18 is the biggest vent since this:
http://tinyurl.com/32d44l

21 Edward James Olmos?

If they can somehow get rid of Pierre,

which non farm system players will still be locked up?
It wouldn't be bad at all, maybe what $30 million?

Just once I wish I could wear a hat as well as Desi Arnaz. As Eddie Murphy once said, Ricky Ricardo was one stylishly dressed cat.

23
non-farm still on the Dodger payroll 2009:
Andruw - $17.1m
Schmidt - $16m
Pierre - $10m
Kuroda - $10m
Penny - $9.25m option (or $2m buyout)

other commitments:
Nomar - $1.25m (deferred signing bonus)
Furcal - $4m (deferred signing bonus)
Loaiza - $375k (option buyout; may have been paid upon release)

24
One of my favorite things about old baseball highlights is seeing all the men in suits and hats in the stands.

18 Trade accomplished what it was supposed to. Lots of positive PR, tons of media coverage, and a sold out stadium. PR trumps building a ballclub with this management team. LaRoche, Santana-who cares? We're in the news.

20 - One thing I did observe: Frank was visably discusted when A. Jones struck out in the bottom of the 5th.

Only the A's are allowed to be disCusted. First they have to DFA him, though.

24
Whenever Old Man Trouble makes trouble arise
Just put on a big straw hat over your eyes
You'll never see the circumstance makin' you frown
If you just push your eyes under the crown

Life can be simple thin'
A simple thin'
To laugh and sing
Get yourself a hat of straw
And put it on, don't take it off

And when the landlord tells you the rent's in arrears
A big straw hat over your ears
You'll never hear the dialog tragically grim
If you just push your ears under the brim

Aba ariba yep
Aba, aba very good Maggie

So life can be a simple thin'
A simple thin' to laugh and sing
Get yourself a hat of straw
Put it on, don't take it off
And pretty soon your troubles will come to an end
Because you will not see or hear it my friend
To visualize permanent sun in the skies
Just put a big straw hat, big straw hat over your eyes!

Question from reporter: Would you be hesitant to put Pierre and Manny in the outfield together at the same time?

Torre: Not at all. You're going to see that. And in all likelihood you'll see that tomorrow.

Reporter: How about both in left field?

Torre: That's going to be tough.

In addition he will continue to use Jones as a defensive replacement but won't remove Manny for defensive purposes at least in the beginning.

He later went on to talk about how Juan will see the bulk of the time over Ethier. And it's not a knock on Ethier, so on and so forth. And others will get starts once and again. Which you can read in any paper.

And Torre knows he can only look at Juan in center.

Thanks Eric.

I actually meant 2010. DO you have those #'s?

Thinking about it, it will be Kuroda and Pierre each for $10 mil. If we can somehow get rid of Pierre, why do I even dream of this but, only $10 mil. With the arbitrations and what not, I figure another what 30-40 million? Say $50-60 mil locked up for 2010 is not too bad. Please, lets get rid of Pierre. Sign Sabathia.

I can only dream of Sabathia Billingsley and Kershaw. Put a weight clause in CC's contract and you have 3 LEGIT aces on the staff in 2 years!

With Kimg Ng/Logan White as GM in 2 years.....a man can dream....

Positive vibes...

30 Has he seen Juan in center?

I just can't believe we give up LaRoche for Manny yet still refuse to put the best players on the team on the field every day. We deserve whatever is coming to us for such shenanigans.

Apparently Rule 8 has become the equivalent of the 3-second rule in the NBA.

34 Offensive or defensive?

34 Or traveling...

30

Is that real?

37 - Yes. It's from his pregame.

34

The Icaros Plan is coming for you, too. We already have endorsements from key party members.

35
Offensive 3 seconds.

34 I think its closer to palming or carrying the ball over myself.

I don't really think Torre knows how to make out a lineup card. This is why he has a new lineup nearly every night. He's grasping at straws because in NYY, it was mandatory that Jeter hit 2nd, Arod hit 3rd or 4th, whatever. It was all set in stone by his management team that this is how the lineup is going to be. In LA, it's not like that. In LA, he has to figure it out. I'm not convinced he has ever had to manage a baseball team, he's used to just sitting in the dugout and his team winning. This whole "managing" thing is foreign territory the ol' man, and he's in over his head.

Granted, if A. Jones didn't diarrhea all over his own career, then the entire process could have been placed in his lap, but Jones did diarrhea all over his career, and now he's stuck trying to "manage" which is something he's not fond of.

But, like one of the earlier posters said, WE'RE IN THE NEWS! McCourt is going to get big bucks when he sells the team after the Stadium renovations. He's set to earn multiple $100's of Millions on this real estate flipping project of his. The only problem is that this is a real baseball team with real fans which nobody in the management office is concerned with.

I don't like Ned, but McCourt hired him, and continues to enable him. Nobody speaks a coy word about ownership, why not?

42

You're going to be eating those words about ownership when the fans statue is installed. Mark my words.

This is a good time to note how excited I am that I am apparently going to a game with Icaros. I expect any unwarrented optimism about the team to be cheerfully squashed.

Text Message from my friend back in NY:

Ethier on bench LULZ

Sigh.

Manny Ramirez grounded out to the second baseman in his Dodger debut tonight. The sold out crowd of Dodger fans stood up for the at bat so the pee would just roll down their legs.

Andy LaRoche , obtained from the Dodgers in the Manny Ramirez deal Thursday that moved Bay to Boston, singled and scored a run.

Atta boy, Andy.

44

Only if it's unwarranted optimism.

It's all for naught anyway, in terms of the actual game, because the combination of underdog and myself is a jinx.

But yeah, look forward to meeting you!

48 My brother and I haven't gone to a winner since 2004, I think. The last one we went to together was when Weird Game James hit the outfield wall on a GMJ inside the parker.

Giants to win 30-4, sounds like. all four runs scored by scrappy Juan Pierre plays, ensuring his place in CF for the rest of the year. I will likely still find a way to think "well, if we can just get a few men on base.

Sorry, DT.

47

It's strange. This is the first time in my life where I actually want a guy the Dodgers gave up on to turn into as great of a player as possible.

If that happens, a few years from now Plaschke will write a column blasting the Dodgers for giving up on home-grown stars like Andy LaRoche.

It disheartens me to read that press release about Juan Pierre. Torre magically "getting it" about Ethier was one of the breaks we needed for this team to be complete, along with any combination of Penny, Nomar, Furcal, and Saito staying healthy. I don't even care about using Sweeney or writing Kent in cleanup, its such small potatoes compared to benching Ethier more than half the time!

That and the last two losses make me regret any optimism I had when the Manny trade was announced. There's major doubt that this team is good enough to make the playoffs and thats scary after the prospects we gave up. Now I can see that "we don't want to be good enough" is another problem and thats just frustrating. Having those 4 prospects and packing up for 2009 with Colletti gone really sounds like a better alternative.

didnt want to add excess negativity after the game but c'mon, how am I supposed to feel when a highly paid manager with 4 World Series rings can't understanding something that is as simple as 2+2 to just about any intelligent fan?

Is Joe Torre the highest paid manager in the league?

52 I think so. According to a list I saw for last year, he was the highest paid manager at 7.5 million. Piniella was next at 3.5 so that would still make Torre the highest paid.

I suppose Andruw Jones is the highest paid centerfielder in the league...

What kind of job has Ned done?

Good moves
-Saito
-Manny
-Acquired Beimel
-Signed Furcal(not his fault he got hurt)
-Maddux
-Chan Ho
-Getting Either for Bradley
-Good half season from Randy Wolf

Bad moves

-Schmidt
-Jones
-Loaiza
-Pierre(length and amount of contract)
-Tampa trade
- Bennett
-Sweeney
-Tomko

Neutral moves

-Nomar resign
-Kuroda (jury still out)
-Blake
-Betemit for Proctor

I've tried to be objective here. His bad moves have had more negative implications financially. I think he's been fortunate to have a strong crop of young players to draw from. Next move (if still here) should be lock up Martin, Kemp, and Loney long-term. If Pierre can be unloaded, that would be great.

Juan Pierre is a 5 year death sentence. I predict the next GM's #1 priority will be getting rid of him, sort of like DePo's quest to rid the team of Juan Encarnacion.

Not only is it going to suck that Pierre will play, but that he'll bat leadoff.

It looks like the Dodgers gave up Santana, Meloan, LaRoche & Morris just so Torre can re-arrange the furniture on the Titanic.

30 - I almost thought that this was a joke, particularly the part about having both Manny and JP in LF (at the same time?), but then realized that this is the stuff that underdog said that we should ignore.

The problem with Plan Icaros is that it doesn't go to the source, but it looks like Torre has already stubbed his brain and being the old trooper he is continues to come to the park everyday anyway.

Cognizant of rule 8, I will not cry over spilled Andy, but will be watching the Pirate scoreboard to see how he is doing.

Finally, as regards my beloved Pee Wee, I was worried that as the 6th outfielder (and given Joe's love for M. Sweeney) he would have to be DFAed and become another cost in the Manny deal. But as BH and Jon have pointed out, the Bums should be able to hide him until September. Its a lost month, but at least he won't become a Friar.

55
Agree with most of that assessment, but the Blake deal... it stinks. We have up two very promising minor league players for a big leaguer who is barely league average. We did this while refusing to play a third player who, statistics and history and baseball sense all suggested would be as good as or better than the player we picked up. (Remember, the Blake deal was done before Manny was in our sites.) The Blake deal was about Ned keeping his job, not about improving the Dodgers. The Blake deal was disgusting, not neutral.

30:
Pierre over Ethier? Now and forever?... Torre is a very old 68.

58:
whoops. shoulda said "gave" not "have" and said "sights" not "sites." shoulda been smart, not dumb.

50 - I doubt anyone would be shocked if Plaschke would contradict his statement that LaRoche was not a top prospect.

Crapshoot. But, just to be safe, KG is no longer welcome.

http://www.wnbc.com/news/17060607/detail.html

58 - Yes, Ned's move, but I think that Torre drove him to it. After his rehab in Vegas, Andy was brought up in early June and essentially sat on the bench while the Solution was going through his two months of decline, playing in consecutive games only twice through late July. By the time he got 4 starts in a row (and getting some hits and showing some patience at the plate), the die had already been cast. Between management's apparent lack of confidence in Andy and Joe's refusal to play him...(rule 8 violation, sorry).

Anyone else planning on going to the Ethier appearance in Culver City today? I changed my plans to make time just so I could tell him everyone at DT wants him starting in right...

Forgive me if I've said this before but Ned's managment has been like me at the blackjack table. Its not that I lose every hand. I win about the same number I lose, but I always seem to lose the big hands.

Every time Ned pushs a big stack out there (Jones, Muller, Schmidt) Ned draws a 16. Then there are the times he thinks he'ssmarterthan everyone else and hits on a 17 (Pierre and Loiza) When he tosses $5 out he draws a Maddux or Beimel. Eventally I go home broke. I don't know if Ned is unlucky or just bad (although I have an opinion) but its time for him to just go home.

56 If RMS Colletti finally sinks this fall, it might be worth it. The captain will survive, but maybe he'll at least start to think about what a .500 team does to his legacy of genius.

65 Dealer had a six showing and Ned hit on 17 w/Jones. Not to mention,w/$36 mil on the table.

As for Torre's comments about playing Pierre over Ethier, the only solace I take is that Torre has not actually done one thing he has said he would.

64 Tell him he has two big fans in Alabama.

68 A point underdog made last night, and my only ray of hope (if you can call a lack of credibility a "ray of hope").

I need to teach LAT money management in Blackjack

Blackjack is perfect for Joe Torre. There is a very solid book to follow and you end up slightly below average in the long run.

One thing Torre hasn't said he would do that he has done was make Juan Pierre the starter. One thing Torre has said he would do, and important to do so and has done is hit JP at the top of the order. I am depressed and angry. I fully expect after watching 3 games worth of disgusting CF play (along with 4 singles 2 steals and 2 runs) that Torre will say... he is rusty, came back early from injury and a gamer who will be just fine.

the first line should be wouldn't do

It's too bad Ethier is getting the LaRoche treatment. I'm going to miss him just as much.

But, hey, at least Pierre can lead the league in outs again.

I look forward to being told how good Jason Bay is over the next month by writers who didn't even know he was on the planet last week.

Because I don't follow baseball closely and thus need to be educated on this matter.

72 - 3 games! I wish. He has put up with 3 months of Druw. Joe just doesn't see what we see when it comes to JP. He sees a guy who comes to work early and plays hard, and he likes this very much. These are the same optics that kept the Solution at third over Andy.

I'm somewhat surprised to find that at this point I feel Grady did a much better job of playing the best players than Torre has done. When you get right down to it, Torre said a lot of the right things, and placated people, and then continued to play towards the cellar using hopeless lost causes.

I'd get a "Free Andre Ethier" t-shirt, but the last player I did that for was Ryan Church.

And we all see how that's working out.

I'm somewhat surprised to find that at this point I feel Grady did a much better job of playing the best players than Torre has done

Remember when folks around here thought Torre was better than Grittle?

Good times.

Ethier has 60 more PAs this year than he had at this point last season. Kemp has 291 more, this year. Loney has 380 more. Grittle was probably just as bad with third base, given the way he jerked Betemit, and then LaRoche, around.

Grady Little did such a great job of keeping that generational rift from opening up. Yep, yep. He's clearly a better manager than Torre, and should have been brought back because he obviously had the backing of his owner.

Don't take 77 as an indication that I liked the way Little did things.

81- If the Dodgers don't make the playoffs, I'd bet my car the same stories get written this year. Or the press will just blame Manny. I hope we don't get to find out.

81 I don't think Grady did a good job of keeping the generational rift from opening up.

I guess we have to agree to disagree.

3 if by "that look in her eye" you mean, the "why is this loser talking to me?", then yes.

13 that made me not really want to see that movie.

What was the story on the Dodgers having a deal in place with Vlad Guerrero back when McCourt was buying the team? Was it Bud Selig who somehow prevented us from signing Vlad? If we had signed him, we never would've gotten Pierre or Andruw Jones.

Also, when and where in Culver City is Ethier going to be today? Thanks.

Saturday, August 2 - 12:00 p.m. - 1:00 p.m.

Andre Ethier at:

AT&T

3851 Overland Ave

Culver City, CA 90232

(310) 559-2019

84 read 81 again greg. turn your snark filter on.

Saturday, August 2 - 10:10 p.m. - unspecified

Andre Ethier at:

Home dugout bench

1000 Elysian Park Ave

Los Angeles, CA 90012

(323) 363-4377

86

Dodgers had a verbal agreement with Vlad. But since McCourt was not offically the owner, he had not been voted on, but the agreement wtih MLB was in place, McCourt would have had to sign a personal services contract with McCourt. This is exactly what happened with Bonds when he came to SF.

According to everything I have read McCourt was told by Bud not to do this if he wanted to buy the Dodgers. Hence Vlad went to the Angels

88 You've outdone my pretending to miss the sarcasm by pretending that I really did miss the sarcasm. Brilliant.

I've been one-upped!

89
All times Eastern.

91 damn right. you've gotta wake up pret-ty early in the morning to put one over on me.

91
Sarcasm is a dish best served reheated in the microwave for 3 minutes at 70% power. Preferably inside some Tupperware.

94 Lid on or lid off?

95
It depends if stuff is going to spill over the sides. Keep the lid on for soup.

I don't own a microwave. What's the second best serving suggestion?

97 i'm of the opinion that it should be either warmed over or flambé. nothing in between.

97
You've gone through college and grad school without a microwave.

Did you go to Amish Tech?

JAWFAL.

Amish Tech has a terrible film school.

96 Sarcasm soup?

Were there any hot chicks at Amish Tech?

103
They all look like young Kelly McGillisses.

I never saw what Maverick saw in Charlie. She just didn't do it for me.

Perhaps Joe wants Ned to get fired. Perhaps he is seeing this as a way to get a GM job for Kim Ng, whom he knows from her Yankees days.

Yeah, that's it. Joe will suddenly become a decent manager once Ned gets fired.

102 Next on E! Channel.

101 I transferred from there when I realized they'd only let us use paper and scissors to make our "movies."

90 I'm interested in learning about this (genuinely - I wasn't around at the time), but I can't follow what you're trying to say here. Could you (or someone) please repeat, but make it clearer?

105 Goose's choice, on the other hand ...

Btw, any nostalgia for Grady Little (whom I liked personally, but...) just makes me chuckle. Next we'll have people pining for Jim Tracy. Or the fjords.

109
Yeah, she pretty much peaked in that movie. It was all down hill from there.

110 Bring back Bill Russell!

110
People pine for David Ross.

D4P likes Top Gun and doesn't find Kelly McGillis attractive.

I'll be dining with Jack Fimple and Terry Whitfield so I'll miss the next 1000+ comment day.

111 Kelly McGillis followed it with a nice production of Measure for Measure at the Shakespeare Library in D.C., I understand.

87. and 90. Thank you.

Colletti is on borrowed time. I think McCourt is ready for a fresh start, and we'll have a new GM next year.

Alluding to seeing McCourt with a disgusted look after watching Andruw Jones strike out in the 6th inning last, I really believe McCourt has had enough. Then again, its unclear whether Torre has had enough.

Bring back Dan Evans!

(No, seriously ...)

After "Top Gun", Kelly McGillis appeared in "The House on Carroll Street" which wasn't shown many places. And she was in "The Accused." But then she decided to move into the production end. As in child production.

And like many women in Hollywood, she committed the unforgivable sin of getting old. She's 51 now.

114 He thought Meg Ryan peaked in that movie, I think she was all of 23-24.

114 He thought Meg Ryan peaked in that movie, I think she was all of 23-24.

114 He thought Meg Ryan peaked in that movie, I think she was all of 23-24.

I don't think I've ever hated someone as much as I hate Joe Torre.

Hyperbole police, please report to comment 123 now.

If McCourt has half a brain, he will look at the players brought in by Logan White and realize that he does not want to lose this guy. Regardless of Ned's most recent moves, if I were McCourt, I would go to Logan White and ask what I have to do to keep him here -- does he need a GM position? Is he content with being in charge of all scouting with a high salary but would like more input on the major league roster? Does he just need a GM that he sees eye to eye with? In an ideal world, Logan will remain in charge of all levels of scouting and player development because that is what he does best. He is in the middle of revamping international scouting, and I'd like to see that finished. In an ideal world, Logan will get a very large salary to do this, and a budget large enough to sign the Kyle Blairs of the world. In an ideal world, Logan will have a GM that he works well with. I don't think that's Ned, given the rumors we hear of front office infighting. Could it be Kim Ng?

More like bring back Branch Ricky.

I still think When Harry Met Sally is the best romantic comedy of the last 20 years, so it's hard to say she peaked with Top Gun.

Joe Torre > When Harry Met Sally

but still capable of making grown men stutter, apparently.

Joe Torre can do no wrong. Like forcing Andruw Jones to play everday.

114. She was 24.

My mom always refered to her as "Betsy."

131
Big "As the World Turns" fan, eh?

Ah, summer dresses.

I thought Kelly McGillis was a restaurant owner. She acted as well?

JABWTROFIPOACSFLR

Doumit gets picked off, delaying Andy LaRoche's first HR as a Pirate for another inning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supergator

Kelly McGillis is still acting.

42 not to step on the toes of your lovely rant, but torre's always "managed" his own way. trust me, he filled out his lineup cards in NY the same way he appears to be doing in LA. remember, this is a man that found at bats for tony womack AT DH while he sported an OPS+ of 50.

by the middle of last year, brian cashman was fairly openly making moves to eliminate the bad options that joey joe joe just couldn't stop using. DFAing miguel cairo, trading "everyday" scott proctor ...

Sees "Supergator" in the title

Looks for Roger Corman's name

Finds Roger Corman's name

Smiles.

138 Pretty much, its Ned's job to give Torre best possible options to field a team, its Torre job to field out the lineup card. Ned can end all this and DFA Jones, and trade Juan Pierre.

Lookin back on some stats, my 2008 is frighteningly similar to Icaros' 2005 campaign.

When the wind is said to be blowing "10 mph NNE", does that mean to or from the North-Northeast?

Looks like I was very nearly right, from where GameDay put the dot.

143 - He gave it a ride but it died at the front of the track.

It was just another game----or was it?
Our rented star didn't do too bad getting two hits.
Jackie Robinson didn't get any in his debut.
Friday night's game has left some "Hard to forget" feelings but this is only the begining.

140 yes, but that's relying on the man who signed the bad players to awful contracts, to admit that they're bad players that are hurting the team ...

144- Stupid wind.

A westerly blows eastward. It is the direction it is coming from.

My biggest gripe with Torre used to be about his negative comments toward the younger players and not commenting on the performances of Kent, Sweeney, Jones, and Nomar when they made the same mistakes. Torre seemed to too often blame the Dodger record on the inexperience of the youth and not on the lack of production and health of the veterans.

Now my gripe with Torre is that he doesn't use the strategy that he professes. He says he wants to maximize the number of times Manny comes to the plate with runners on base and then ignores the obp of the hitters ahead of Manny.

Kemp, Martin, Loney, Manny does a better job of getting runners on base ahead of Manny than does Pierre, Kemp, Martin, Manny. It is like Torre can state what should be done but can't get himself to do it because his tendencies and instincts are guiding him instead of his free will.

The way Kent is hitting, having Kent hit higher than 6th falls into the same instinct over free will battle.

148
In that case, the wind probably did rob Andy of a homerun.

132 Yup. How did I know you would catch that reference, Bob? There's is no end to the encyclopedic knowledge in your brain. (and it's sad that I still have to run Jiminy Cricket singing through my brain in order to spell "encyclopedia."

151
My grandmother watched 'ATWT' and it was usually on when I got back from high school.

So, I tended to watch Meg Ryan's character from a different perspective than my grandma.

108

When Fox was selling the Dodgers to McCourt, the purchase was highly leveraged. For a variety of reasons Selig and the other owners were willing to have the sale go through, despite some real questions on the finances. At one point Eli Broad and Robert Shapiro seemed interested, but never got it together and never seemed to have the support of MLB.

So with McCourt in the drivers seat but no final vote by the owners scheduled for another month, Vlad is in the final stages of free agency and supposedly it came down to the Mets and the Dodgers. The Mets dropped out or Vlad didn't want to go there at the last minute, and story goes Vlad wanted to come to the Dodgers. Since McCourt was not the official owner yet, Vlad would have had to do a personal services contract. Essentially protecting Vlad in case MLB ownership nixed the deal.

According to some McCourt was frightened to do this because Selig had told him if you do a deal like this McCourt might not have the Dodgers. Hence McCourt said no and Vlad went to the Angels. Hope this helps.

150 - Criminal wind.

149 Having Loney up top might not work given how often he hits into the doubleplay. He is not a very fast runner. I'm happy with him hitting fifth, as he was before the trade and still should be. (Bump Kent to 7th!)

152 Thanks Bob. I needed a good laugh, and you have provided it.

152 You must have been really bummed when, as I recall, Betsy got in a car accident and had to have massive plastic surgery on her face. When she came out of it, she no longer looked like Meg Ryan and wasn't cute at all. Her voice changed too. How could that be?

157
I think lost interest in the show at that point.

157
I keep hoping that Colletti, Torre, Pierre, Jones, etc. are just part of a Victoria Principal dream.

155 - It doesn't seem like Loney is hitting into as many double plays of late. A couple of those double plays he did hit into came after drilling a foul ball or two. I am biased toward Loney. I like him. I tried my best to will him into the lineup at the start of last year and learned not to do that again. Others have suffered the experience of trying to will LaRoche into the lineup. Glad I didn't have to experience that one.

125 - It is becoming increasingly clear to me that Logan White is a very good scouting director, but he would make a horrifying GM. It is not at all clear to me that he would make good decisions WRT veteran talent acquisition, which is precisely the same problem Colletti has. White's comment about the cost of the Manny rental as including LaRoche as "not at all" concerning makes me wonder if he is either being told what to say, knows which side his bread is buttered on, and/or will just go along with the harebrained idea of the week. I can't believe he's a dummy, but it disturbs me to see White so clearly signaling his willingness to go along with a very dubious use of team resources.

150 - The one she had or the one you had last night?

Shimmin willed Bennett onto the DL.

Going back to Jon's original point, last night's Dodgers game took 171 minutes to play. If he spent the entire game filling water balloons, how many did he fill?

What's the average time it takes to fill a water balloon and tie it off? 1 minute? 2 minutes?

I imagine it's slower to start off with and then after a while you can develop a rhythm.

I put the water balloon inventory at somewhere around 120 for the birthday party today.

Felipe Lopez, anyone?

164- There's the shrinkage factor to consider. Some of the balloons are going to get busted in transit.

What's the average time it takes to fill a water balloon and tie it off?

How big are the balloons? What's the water pressure? I just feel like we don't have enough information to really make a reasonable estimate.

But does Jon have more water balloons than Bart Simpson was able to put together for his attack on Nelson Muntz?

And do the water balloons say "Death From Above"?

Berroa, Ozuna, and Lopez is unacceptable. I'm not sure Lopez is enough of an upgrade over the other two to bother with. Still wish they'd bring Hu back up. Even if Berroa's defense hasn't been as bad as was feared, he's not hitting significantly better than Hu did with one eye tied behind his back.

161 - Once a decision is made the argument/discussion/dialog is over and everybody is supposed to walk together. If White clearly identified the pros and cons of the trade and it turns out that he was right, he will have more influence on the next trade unless he continues to fight the battle he already may have lost.

One of the things a person has to learn is to shut up immediately after he wins or loses.

166 - Unless they are frozen.

158 So did my mom. And hence ... that is the extent of my knowledge about such soaps.

171
If you freeze the balloons, some will burst when the water expands. And the rubber in the balloon wall might not be able to withstand the change in temperature.

I believe the DOD has done studies on this.

171- Freeing up freezer space for 120 water balloons would mean taking a chance on the bodies he's got hidden, thawing out. I don't think that's an acceptable risk to preserve forty cents worth of water balloons.

169
Who's Lopez...?

168 Love that episode.

174
I don't think you're factoring in Jon's opportunity costs when it comes to both filling the balloons and having more freezer space to continue his murder sprees.

173 - Actually, I think they went beyond studies and developed a protoype. They were stopped when they began to bid out the production because each ballon would have costed, like, $10.

Can we go back to playing the Nats and Giants again? I miss those days.

1) Acquire Juan Pierre to play CF

2) Realize Juan Pierre can not play CF

3) Sign Andrew Jones to play CF and a power bat

4) Realize Andrew Jones is the worst player alive

5) Trade for Manny because Andrew sucks

6) Andrew Jones ends up on the bench

7) Juan Pierre ends up in center field

8) Currently vomiting

175- Felipe Lopez. He was a Nat, till yesterday. He was an All Star in 2005!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lopezfe01.shtml

Punchline ) Ethier rots on the bench....Dodgers miss playoffs....LaRoche hits 25 home runs next year

I hate Blake in the #2 spot. He doesn't even make contact.

At least we got a superstar in the last trade, but the first one was really stupid.

Blake shouldn't bat 2nd, but he should be batting 5th or 6th, and definitely before Kent.

I'm hoping LaRoche hits 25 home runs this year. That he goes completely ballistic over the next two months, drags his career OPS+ up to 208, wins the ROY award and gets signed long term. I think that would be hilarious.

I'm shocked that D4P doesn't own a microwave.

187- Really? I'm surprised he owns a t.v. He seems like the sort who'd really enjoy telling people that he didn't.

155
160

For the record, Loney has not hit into a double play in over a month (June 30) or 110 PAs.

185 LaRoche's going to bat 25 HR in 33 games?

186
No cell phone/pager/Blackberry/Treo/iPhone/anything else either.

189- I'm not ready to tell you to book it, but, yes. That's what I'm hoping.

188 Yeah, but he was part of a DP last night! Loney couldn't get back to first base in time, the bum!

187
We have a TV, but we're canceling our cable service at the end of this month.

189 Er, 50 games. But, still.

68 LAT
Make that 1/2 of what he said he would do.

193 You should cancel your internet access too, and just hang out at starbucks all day.

193- Really taking the TMYLM cancellation hard, I see.

196
I've considered that type of scheme, but it gets expensive and unhealthy (in terms of food).

197
I've never had HBO...

183 - I can't believe how shortsighted you are. Geting Blake allowed us to get rid of Andy so that Andre could sit on the bench.

Before I vent a little, I must say I still enjoyed last nights game.

But, it appears our management really has no direction,

Sign Juan Pierre after J.D. opts out.

Sign Jones to make up for gaping offensive hole of Juan Pierre.

Trade LaRoche and others for 2 months of Manny to make up for horrible offense of Jones/Pierre

Start the game with Manny, Kemp, and the guy that Manny is trying to make up for in the outfield.

198
D4P's clothes also just have clasps, no buttons or zippers. They're too hochmude.

Neither Google nor Cuil can tell me what "hochmude" means.

202
I don't think I have the spelling correct. My Pennsylvania German is a bit weak.

161
This is the "free resource story" that Bill James wrote years ago about the Blue Jays: that their system had produced so many good young players in such a short time that they began to think of them as a free resource, like air. Hence they would cavalierly trade guys away for veteran rentals on the assumption that, "well we developed that one, that was easy, we'll just develop another one to take his place."

James' point was that young men who were good baseball players were enormously rare and valuble to a major league team and you have to treat them with great care. The Jays behavior was based on an illusion and it would come back to haunt them. As, in fact, it did.

The way Logan White's drafts have been going you have to wonder if he might be getting that feeling, that with him in charge, good young players are a dime a dozen. "Need a power-patience 3rd Baseman? No problem; I'll just check with the computer."

153 Thanks.

65 LAT
The problem with Colletti is that he has taken too many big risks hoping for good returns on big money. With Jones, Muller, Schmidt and Loiza there were warning signs that they might not be worth what they were asking. It might be OK to take a chance on one or two of these types of risks but to go for so many has proven to be a disaster.
(Who would think that all of them would fail?)

204 Nice take! It is worrisome that they don't realize how rare above MLB average talent is. They don't know how talent is distributed system wide and how to evaluate it. While it is easy to notice the stars like ARod, it's harder to separate out the players closer to the mean.

204
"Need a power-patience 3rd Baseman? No problem; I'll just check with the computer."

Logan White is on the "scouts" side of the fictitious stats v. scouts debate.

201 - Same with the coeds at Amish Tech.

208 I would assume White uses a computer to keep track of all minor league players.

suggestion to all DT readers. have any mail received from D4P thoroughly inspected before handling

208
I'd like to think that, if Logan is really the savior we all believe in, he'd deny that there are only two sides, or any sides at all.

It's the Plaschkes and Collettis who think that, at the trade deadline, the world is automatically divided into "buyers" and "sellers."

Myself, I think there's only "smart" and "dumb." Is Logan White smart?

It's an article of faith.

51

I read that too. :o|

D4P totally needs to move to the Bay Area.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kentje01.shtml

Jeff Kent sponsors his own page? Then he must know how his own stats this season?

214
How about Concord?

Or Martinez?

Or Hercules?

Or Pinole?

Or East Palo Alto?

My favorite part of living in Berkeley was guy stopping me on the streets and asking, "Hey pal, I need 73 cents to get me to Pinole. Can you help me out?"

He didn't need 75 cents. He just needed 73. And he wanted to go to Pinole.

I know it seems to so obvious to most of us here, but it does seem that we are in the minority when it comes to Pierre. I have nothing against Pierre and applaud the man for making the most of his God given talents. Really though, I think the common fan has no problem with Pierre starting and in fact believes it's a no brainer that he does start and bat leadoff.

214
Concord's getting filled with gangs now. I basically can't wear red or blue there, so stupid.

I worked for someone from Pinole a long time ago. He was a jerk.

Omar Infante is batting cleanup for the Braves today.

I have nothing against Pierre and applaud the man for making the most of his God given talents

Does he, though? I have to think he could realistically expect to improve his game if he conquered his fear of striking out and started trying to draw some walks.

Ugh. Whats done is done.
Whats the contract status of Garret Atkins?

Who are the 3b in A, AA within the organization again? I believe its been a good year in the organization for the development of 3b prospects. Would those in the know please comment.

218

That's easily true before the Manny trade. My guess though that the majority of fans would prefer to see Ethier, especially since I would say Ethier is considered to be the biggest fan favorite behind Martin from the young players.

216
I have a couple of vacancies in Crockett.

218. I think you're right.

But actually, I do NOT think that Pierre gets the most out of his ability. I am flabbergasted that a guy who has played baseball all his life (1) throws that badly and (2) can't read a fly ball, either as a fielder or as a baserunner. I also can't believe how bad a bunter he is.

A weak arm is a weak arm - that is what it is. But just watching him, it seems to me that he throws improperly - like no one ever taught him. He looks like a bad QB throwing off his back foot.

His raw speed allows him to correct for bad jumps, and he's average in getting to fly balls, and one of the best baserunners in baseball because of his speed. But he'd be even better if he could learn to read the ball off the bat.

So what the heck does he do in all that extra time he spends at the park every day? He's the first one there, but is he just helping the grounds crew?

So, yeah, nice guy. But even given his limited natural abilities, I think he could be a better baseball player than he is.

This is, of course, just the opinion of a guy who never made it past Little League. Any of you with more experience playing or scouting think I'm wrong? I'm happy to be corrected.

217
I saw the lamest pick-up attempt at Blake's last night in Berkeley. This guy was trying to pick up women by bragging how he knew the zip codes of everywhere in California.

Its time to split Southern California from Northern California and then invade Northern California for daring to split from us.

222
Is Pitch F/x used for batters to see how many pitches they swing at that are outside the strike zone?

Juan Pierre gets pitched to a lot differently than James Loney (to keep the lefty comparison). No pitcher is afraid that Pierre is going to hit it over the fence.

Pierre starting and hitting 8th is one thing and hitting leadoff is another. Pierre would have cut off the infield grounder that went through to the wall but the runner still winds up at third because runners too typically get an extra base on Pierre's arm.

229
I understand that way of thinking (though haven't seen any evidence one way or another), but I maintain (based on watching Gameday) that Juan has routinely chased pitches close to/out of the strike zone with 2 strikes in the count.

He has stated that he is strongly averse to striking out, and as a result, he trades a combo of Ks and BBs for a combo of outs and singles. IMO (which I can't prove), the number of BBs in the former would be higher than the number of singles in the latter.

229 - Torre confuses himself by thinking Pierre's obp stat should be interpreted differently from somebody else's because pitchers make him hit the ball to get on base. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter why, it is what it is.

229 Should we compare Juan Pierre to a guy like Ichiro then? Ichiro shows little power, but he already has 40 walks to his 43 K's compared to Juan Pierre's 17 walks to his 18 K's. Not that JP is in Ichiro's league, or even his jock strap, but its not like you need power just to get the pitcher to walk you.

Ichiro: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6615

Juan Pierre:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6550

Andy LaRoche was 0 for 3 today and a walk. (Cubs won 5-0.) His brother has been on the DL since a few days before Andy got there. Andm yes, there are listed as An and Ad.

222 Whether he's truly made the most is really subject. I don't know, but that is what he is most applauded for. Who's to say that anyone has done the most with what they have. I think it's fair to say he's done more with less than most other mlb players. Again, that can be debated as well, but I see no reason not to give him credit for his efforts.

234 odds on Andy LaRoche breaking .250 BA, and a .300 OBP this season?

230 - If Pierre is in centerfield that's only a double. Don't forget Jones taking his sweet time getting to the ball which went to the wall and then lobbed it to Berroa. Pierre cuts that ball off and throws it to Berroa (albeit a lob as well). The ball rolling to the wall was why it ended up being a triple. But, the play was inconsequential.

I don't think there's any evidence that Juan Pierre gets pitched any differently than anybody else, now that Bonds is out of the league.

Intuitively, it doesn't seem possible. Pitching in the major leagues is really, really hard. You can't throw batting practice to anybody. Even Derek Lowe has been known to draw a walk.

When there's a lot more of that Pitch F/x data maybe then we'll see.

I think it's fair to say he's done more with less than most other mlb players

In what way has he overachieved relative to his talent?

His strengths:

Speed. That's it. And he takes advantage of it by beating out a few grounders and stealing bases.

His weaknesses

Everything else. And he doesn't get anything more out of his weaknesses than one would expect. His OBP is low and is SLG is low, just as we would expect. I can't see any part of his game that makes me think he gets more out of it than he should.

Angels vs. Yanks game starts. Kevin Kennedy says that Andy LaRoche was trying to hit a HR each at bat to prove that Torre should give him the starting 3rd base job, and now that he's in Pittsburg, he shouldn't feel like he needs to do that.

Rosenthal says that Manny contracts demands in the offseason isn't happening, (4 years, $100 million), Rosensthal says after talking to various GM, he thinks its going to be more like 2 years, $35 million.(What, another Andruw Jones contract, no way Borris allows that.)

Joe Buck is still a tool.

233 Ichiro uses a "Hatori Hanzo." It's just not fair for a guy like JP who didn't grow up in Japan (or Burbank).

239 that's kind of my point though, he's not all that talented. He has way more weaknesses than strengths. Do those weakness exist because he hasn't tried or because he isn't good to begin with. It's not something I feel strongly about or even convicted to debate. It's just something I'm will to credit Pierre with.

240 So the Dodgers will offer him 2 years, 70 million dollars, while that's the next highest offer ... unless, of course, Frank takes away the piggy bank, and Ned isn't allowed to go shopping at all.

I don't actually have a problem with Pierre playing. The problem is that Ethier is on the bench because Pierre is playing.

If Pierre continues his average hit production through age 40, he will have 3000 hits, which has been an automatic ticket to the hall of fame. I'm just saying ...

i like it when the adds on here try to sell me toasters and ovens.

246
Any microwave ads...?

Our old friend Wilson Benemit is starting at 2nd base for the Yankees today. Why? I have no idea.

My dad was totally anti-microwave. Never had one till college.

Well, the Yanks know what they're doing. Ol' Wilson just hit a 2 run shot off the first pitch off of Jerrod Weaver.

248.

Meat!!!

Man I miss sayin that.

Thats why! :) All right Wilson

BOOM goes the Betemit in NY.

250 - Well, they do and they don't. Betemit can't pay second worth a lick. But, occasionally can hit the ball good.

play*

Keith Law thinks Jones, maybe even Pierre, might disappear soon on the waiver wire:

http://tinyurl.com/58a49m

Random thoughts on Pierre:

-A player of his type (speed, no power) needs to maintain
at least a .360 OBP to be an effective starter.
-A player of his type needs to be a good defensive OF.
-I thought that earlier in the year he was making an effort
to take more pitches.
-If you're told by your manager that what you're doing is
good, why would you change?
-Despite the steals and 200 hits, he's never really scored
a lot of runs(relative to his # of AB's).
-Bottom line: a good 4th OF on a winning team.

-

Pierre has played in 27 games since his last walk. That is the longest stretch of his entire career. He had a stretch of 25 games to end the 2006 season.

256

Just read Keith Law's waiver post and disagree with him on a number of issues, even though I hope/wish he is right on Jones or Pierre.

If everyone in the world knows that Maddux only team he will accept a trade to is the Dodgers, if Arizona blocks him, right now they can't, but the Giants could to piss the Dodgers off, then he is pulled back and likely not traded.

As far as Jones goes I don't think the Dodgers have the courage to send him down until Sept 1, Jones would also have to accept the assignment given his time of service-I am sure he has options.

In my mind most of the decisions going on right now and that have gone on throughout the year on the Dodgers relate to the size of the contract. The closest the Dodgers came to playing the right people was when JP was on the DL, and Jones was rotating in with an occassional cameo by DY.

Sadly it would not surprise me to see Ethier traded during the waiver process.

257 Great points

Juan Pierre is most valuable when used the way he was used last night or as a pinch runner.

256 To quote a dog in a favorite Far Side cartoon (who was waiting for a cat to be tricked into stepping in a dryer): "Oh please, oh please..."

I always like Keith Law, but I'll hug him if he's right on Jones. Pierre is more likely to just be waived, as is typical, but not traded. His prediction about Jones sounds right though. They'll either find a taker once he clears waivers or try to outright him to Vegas. Honestly I wouldn't expect this logjam will be acceptable or part of things for very much longer.

259 The Giants wouldn't do it because they have similar payroll problems as the Padres do. Ariz wouldn't want him because Maddux's numbers are horrible at Chase Fields. There's a good chance Maddux's makes it because the two teams who could block has good reason not to.

259 Some good points, but I disagree about Ethier. In fact I'll bet you a giant helping of garlic fries at the ballpark that there's no way that will happen. If they wanted to trade him they could've done it in the Manny trade. And I just can't see them waiving him now and hoping that works out. They'll be screwed over. I do see Jones getting waived and with his contract clearing waivers. We'll see.

Keith Law would make a horrible GM because he would make fun of everyone, including his own players and then they would beat him up and stick his head down a toilet.

This is a good primer btw for the waiver wire rules, post-trade deadline:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/waiver-wire-primer/

240 Rosenthal says that Manny contracts demands in the offseason isn't happening, (4 years, $100 million)

It's going to be interesting seeing what happens this offseason with Manny. He essentially walked away from 2 years/$40 million. Is this another Boras miscalculation (as with A-Rod)? I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I was just surprised that he wanted those two option years removed when I expected he would demand that his new team pick the options up. This seems like quite a gamble considering Manny's age.

263
Totally struck gold with that Javon Walker signing, didn't we?

Ethier would be claimed immediately by a bad team. The Dodgers would then pull him back and he'd be safe for the rest of the season. The only way Ethier can be traded is if Ned chooses to trade him to the team claiming him. Highly unlikely. Pierre and Jones will most likely pass through waivers and can be traded to anybody who wants them.

Pierre and Jones will most likely pass through waivers and can be traded to anybody who wants them

Don't all you other GMs call at once...

261 262 263 Ditto on "Oh please." Torre himself said after the trade that never planned on having that many outfielders. My guess is that they're now wondering what to do out there--perhaps Torre's comments are part of that thinking out loud. I think one way or the other, Jones is toast. Also agree with the dog, they could've traded Ethier already had they wanted to do so.

I have a haunted CD player. It just turned itself on and started playing.

269 It's not like there are 29 genius GMs and Ned. For half price, some of those guys might well take a flyer.

271 My grandfather, God bless him, was convinced his TV was haunted, but it was just that he kept turning the alarm on by mistake.

Lets trade Andruw Jones back to the Braves for Chipper Jones.

Of course Jones has a no-trade clause. And Pierre has a limited no-trade clause. I'll take a phantom DL for Jones.

Andrew Lambo hit homerun #15 last night.

He's going to be a good hitter eventually me thinks.

Here's the list of players the Dodgers gave limited to full no-trade protection:

Pierre
Penny (Depo)
Nomar
Kuroda
Schmidt
Jones

275 Andruw Jones must know that L.A. just hates the guy. He might welcome a trade back east.

I think we're looking at this with our hearts and not our heads. How would it look PR wise if Ned "admitted" his mistake and released/traded Jones or Pierre? They've spun "Jones is ready to break out" and "Pierre is a good leadoff man" all year to keep the heat off. They kept Billingsley in the bullpen half of last year because we needed "veteran" starters Tomko and Hendrickson in the rotation. Heck, there are updates constantly about Schmidt's rehab, like he's coming back to save the day. There is not a track record of cutting losses and moving on.

278 - Certainly possible, but it'll probably be an off season decision. The deal has been a total disaster but next year will be his last year. That's the only positive and it's a big stretch.

279 Getting Manny--BOOM!-- provides him enough cover in the press. But 277 has depressed me too much to continue.

LOS ANGELES -- Day 1 was hectic. Now that the storm has passed, Manny Ramirez has decided that he wants to end his career as a professional baseball player in sunny L.A.

"I like this city, the environment, the energy in the fans. I think that I'll play here for the remaining of my career," Ramirez said in an exclusive interview with ESPNdeportes.com.

IT BEGINS. Or is it IT HAS BEGUN?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=3516401

"I like this city, the environment, the energy in the fans. I think that I'll play here for the remaining of my career," Ramirez said in an exclusive interview with ESPNdeportes.com.

Obviously a non-story, but it made me chuckle how quickly we got a MBM quote.

http://tinyurl.com/6qbwfw

By 16 seconds! Curses!

I was just thinking.....since the ability to steal bases is now the be-all, end-all measure of a player's worth, far surpassing the ability to hit, hit for power, get on base, field, throw, etc., etc., why don't the Dodgers just quit drafting baseball players altogether and start drafting nothing but world-class sprinters?

"Boras definitely moved the pieces here," Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling stated in an interview with Boston's WEII radio station. "Scott Boras would make zero dollars if Boston exercised his options on Manny's contract."

Heh.

The Dodgers, which will pay an estimated one million dollars to Ramirez, have not discussed their long term plans in regards to the slugger -- at least not yet.

I thought Boston was paying it all...

I was in the car coming home when I heard this gem:

Dave Campbell: I know Billy Beane wrote a book about scouting players using only statistics, but I still think you need to scout the players.

Awesome!

287
Baseball:

It pays to be stupid.

286 - 30,000 tickets plus in less than 24 hours plus parking takes care of that and then some. Not to mention the jerseys and other merchandise. Manny in a day has probably already made McCourt 2-3 million dollars easily.

289
But I thought the reports all said that Boston was paying all of Manny's salary. This is the first time I've heard that the Dodgers are paying anything.

288 Dan Shulman quickly corrected him and explained who wrote the book and what was really about.

Just kidding. Shulman agreed with him.

More like Radio: It pays to be stupid. Dave Campbell is as douchey as it gets.

287 Michael Lewis changed his name to Billy Beane and became A GM?

293 Yeah, and Dave Campbell figured it out.

290 All the early reports I read were "most or all of the $7mil," which I think every fact-checking sports journalist stripped down to "Dodgers pay practically nothing" to "Dodgers don't have to pay a dime."

I was actually kind of waiting for a clarification on this but forgot about it--I figured the Dodgers would have gotten all but the money offset by the near-minimum cost of the two prospects, but I suppose its slightly more than that.

Just wondering, would people still rather have the Andruw deal than the Hunter/Rowand deals? And also wanted to say I think we'll sign Manny for 3 years in the offseason.

296 I think most of us still think it was a better idea to do a short than long term deal, but I don't think anybody could have expected this steep of a decline for Jones.

I think most of us would prefer option D, "Let's stick with our scrappy albatross and play Ethier and Kemp everyday until some dreadlocked fellow gets here."

Do people in other fields pick up seven year old books then criticize them for being inaccurate today?

I think we'll sign Manny for 3 years in the offseason

Hometown Discount™...!!!

Dave Campbell lifetime:.213/.274/.311
Now I know why he doesn't like stats.

Do people in other fields refuse to read seven year old books but constantly criticize the content of said seven year old books?

298 Textbooks in public schools.

Let's stick with our scrappy albatross until the Icaros Plan™ comes to fruition.

Rosenthal claims that a GM said that what Manny did was worse than what the steroid users did during the Steroid era because the steroid users were only taking the steroids to help the team while what Manny did(Hit HR, back up Ortiz, etc.) only hurt the Red Sox.

267 That was an atrocious decision. All in hindsight of course.

I think they should take that deal Walker is offering and run with it.

What is this Icaros Plan™?

Could we please see what Beane could do with a $120 million payroll?

People are still getting mileage out of The Bell Curve. Silent Spring, fort-five years later, still gets it's fair share of grief.

So, yes.

The Dodgers do have some leverage with regard to Jones. His whole purpose in signing that contract went beyond the $36 million; it was a chance to put up good numbers and then sign a far better and longer contract. So far he has only lowered whatever value others might credit to his account. If Ned told Boras they wanted Jones to take assignment to Las Vegas and to give up his no trade clause OR they would nail his posterior to the bench for this year and next, Boras probably would have him do it, because if he doesn't post good numbers next year, there will be no new contract. It is in his best interest to cooperate, or else he'll have to get by the rest of his life on that paltry $36 million.

297,
Yeah, option D would have been nice.

305
Yeah, if a guy is willing to give up millions to retire, you're not going to get much from him this season.

Silent Spring is awesome! Book of the century!

--Malaria

287 ha me and the old mane heard the same thing and made a very similar joke.

Yes, it begins. Boras knows there are only a few teams with the wealth to think about dumping much money on a 40 year old Manny, and will begin to work on Colletti. One can only hope that McCourt has the native intelligence to get both Ned and Torre out of town fast. It is probably too much to hope that he will then then realize he's not good at baseball and take a good profit to get out.
Two things make me sad. Players can't be guaranteed to contribute much past 38, especially in the (hopefully) post steriod era. And what might have been a Dodger era has been jeopardized by what we have given up so far, and would be made much more unlikely if Ethier goes. Sure, any team throwing 20mil bills around can get lucky, but the Dodgers once had the ability to field most of a good team at almost no cost.

I was just kidding, by the way.

bb-ref:
Andruw Jones: 6'1", 170.
Manny Ramirez: 6'0, 190.

http://tinyurl.com/6y8jox

you make the call....

bhsportsguy, are you in southern oregon? I live here and that's where I ran into Fimple a few Little League seasons ago.

Andruw Jones: 6'1", 170

170 stones...?

[316} Reminds me of my driver's license...

Man, I want a large hadron collider. I hope Santa brings me one.

Jumbo hasn't seen 170 since he was 19.

from what I remember reading about the Javon Walker deal, the $11 million signing bonus makes it easy to dump him after 2 seasons. He may never see 2/3rds of the money flashed in the contract.

267 What'd Javon do now?

All I know is I'm glad he's away from Brandon Marshall. That couldn't have ended well.

323 Tried to retire, with the implication being that the robbery he underwent during the off season was really screwing with his head. To be fair to the guy, he offered the bonus up to walk away and retire.

Art Monk and Darrell Green are probably going to be the last Redskins players inducted into the Hall of Fame for a very, very long time.

Daniel Snyder is the man.

Well, I hope no one is really believing what Manny says but it is always fun.

SS Furcal - Resigned 1 year around $13 mil
C Martin
CF Kemp
LF Manny
1B Loney
RF Ethier
3B Dewitt / FA
2B Hu /Dewitt / FA

Sabathia
Bills
Kershaw
Penny
Kuroda

Wade
Biemal
Tronsoco
Saito
Protor?
Brox

95 win team....

Salaries....?????

Ah, just saw the "near-retirement" story for Walker. I kind of feel for the guy, just hasn't been the same since the Darrent Williams shooting. And then the mugging. He's a mess. A wealthy mess, however.

Walker started last season with back to back 100-yard games (including one vs Oakland) before his knee injury. He overcame the Darrent death well enough to act in the same exact way that resulted in that death (spraying people at a club).

He's just dumb. He'll be fine. Report said he's also frustrated at not doing too well in camp. Raw QB arm + great defensive back quartet = some struggles.

someone needs to remind him who Oakland plays during opening week's Monday Night Football.

We all deal with death differently. Champagne on hoes is no different than any other grieving process.

It's the circle of life.

287 I heard the same quote and nearly got into an accident.

325

Chris Samuels has a shot.

328
He can't even separate from the undrafted free agent cornerbacks.

Just let him retire.

Somewhere floating around is the possibility the Dodgers paid Manny $1M for relocating/settling in expenses and the Red Sox paid his salary.

You can't move across the country and get settled for less than a good $800,000 these days.

BC bud isn't going to ship itself down the coast.

336
True, well unless it's in seed form.

Players caught juicing in the minors over last seven days:

Roman Carrasco
Luis Figuera
Jonathan Quinonez
Yeiger Sanchez
Braulin Beltre
Andres Beras
Yedilson Pena
Thomas Mendoza
Francoris Pineda
Renny Amador
Bernardino Jimenez
Daniel Gil

It's almost like there's some kind of connection between these players.

I can't quite put my finger on it.

338
And they're probably all illegal immigrants...! They're taking jobs away from American ballplayers...!

339 Women wouldn't be caught dead with drugs?

There are two words I want banished from Torre's vocabulary. "Earn" and "deserve." Whenever he uses them, Juan Pierre ends up playing. And the Dodgers start losing more, "concerns about the offense" are revived, and Torre starts defending Pierre's outs as better than anyone else's outs.

By the way, since Pierre's return, the Dodgers are 5-3, fattened of course by the games against lowly Washington and San Francisco. How long before they sink below .500 again? And how far do they have to sink before Torre realizes flipping Ethier for Pierre is making all the difference?

This is going to ruin my Dominican Winter fantasy team.

Within an hour after Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein informed Manny Ramírez he had been traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers Thursday, Ramírez's agent, Scott Boras, called the Sox back, according to a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations. If the Sox dropped the option years on his contract - which they had agreed to do if they traded him - Boras said Ramírez would not be a problem the rest of the season. For the Sox, the source said, Ramírez's pledge of good behavior only served as a tacit admission that his disruptive conduct of the last couple of weeks had been calculated, and they had had good cause to suspect more was in the offing if they did not trade him. The Sox told him thanks but no thanks, what was done was done, and pack plenty of sunscreen.

Seriously though: do Latino players roid more than non-Latinos, or is there something about the testing process that makes them more likely to get caught?

344 That is a bold statement, my friend.

Lineup:

Pierre, CF
Kemp, RF
Martin, C
Ramirez, LF
Loney, 1B
Kent, 2B
Blake, 3B
Berroa, SS
Kuroda, RHP

There were 111 balloons at the start of the party. My wife continued a fraction, but some of the total expired overnight.

do Latino players roid more than non-Latinos?

Yes.

Is there something about the testing process that makes them more likely to get caught?

They do steroids.

Well, Loney behind Manny is something. Baby steps, people!

344 Even after he's gone, The Red Sox still feel like the need to dump on Manny.

347 Somehow, someway, Kent is moved out of the heart of the order.

345
Lack of education and resources and how to beat the tests.

353
*Lack of education and resources on how to beat the tests.

Kent is A. Jones, except with a better excuse.

Sit him down.

348 - "Continued" should be "contributed"

355 Despite all the dumping I do on Jeff Kent, we don't have a better option at 2nd. Do you really want to see Ozuna starting at 2nd everyday? Calling up Hu isn't an option right now because all Torre isn't going to DFA guys like Beorra, Sweeney, or Jones, and he isn't going to give up any of the relief corps or any of the starters.

348 I assume that wasn't 111 water balloons? That's a lot of water. Otherwise, it's a lot of helium.

I recommend a viewing of "The Red Balloon" now that the party is over.

There is no better option than Kent at second and he'll have his moments. Batting him 6th is a giant improvement.

357
DeWitt?

360 - I like DeWitt playing everyday in Vegas. He needs it.

Yeah, Kent batting 6th is a good sign, and I also agree that he'll at least do something on offense once in awhile - as opposed to Andruw.

Okay, hope to be able to watch at least some of the game tonight. More importantly, I hope they win. They need these next two desperately, but neither will be easy.

We can call up DeWitt in Sept after a month of wherever he's playing at currently.

Come on by the stadium and watch Andre Ethier chew his bubblegum.

Did anybody go to his autograph signing in Culver City?

364 Is only funny if you imagine it in Vin Scully's voice.

Even then, YMMV.

Andre Ethier will punch someone before this season ends.

With his start there last night, Andruw Jones moved back ahead of Kemp in baseball-reference's starting CF spot. Juan Pierre will not be displaced from the LF spot, this year.

Eleven more innings, and Berroa usurps Furcal's spot!

I'm kinda surprised water balloons are legal in Southern California...

Jeff Kent moving one spot down the order is like the biggest thing ever.

This is like watching an aircraft carrier do a u-turn.

371 Hey, he was in the clean up spot for most of the year. Really, he's moving two spots down now!

I've been away all day. Got into a small fender bender going to see Andre in Culver City.

Anyone catch this already? Manny ready to retire a Dodger.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=3516401

I'm ready to retire a Dodger too. His name is Pierre.

Huh. The football HOF ceremony is ESPN. The baseball ceremony was on ESPNC.

373- Did you still get to see him?

Juan Pierre is the worst thing to happen to L.A. since the 5.4 Chino Hills Earthquake.

377 Let's not be silly. The earthquake didn't do any damage.

Just read it, figured I better get on-line on JDT and state my opinion on all of this:

Am I the only one that sees this entire Manny-thing as going to be a huge disaster in the making?

Listen, I think we might win the World Series with him this year--if we can get our team can get their collective asses hitting; but after that, I can break this down into two columns:

Manny_______________Frank & Jamie

This thing is going to be a proverbial beehive of MF-ing and dis-respect.

"I'm a big believer in, once a guy gets to the big leagues, I don't want him to sit around and think about it," Mets manager Jerry Manuel said. "I want him to get out there and play as quickly as possible."

What a moron!

Will there be a separate thread that will be one night free of repeated Juan Pierre and Andruw Jones references or is it just this one? Either way, drinks will be served and there will be a few parlor games later.

358 - 111 water balloons it was.

To put it in perspective, the balloons did not fill one layer in our kiddie pool. We're not talking about much water, just much effort.

The balloon bits that I'm still trying to pick up from our lawn are a bigger environmental issue..

371 Actually, Jeff Kent has moved two spots down the order. It's a very big deal, because the best hitters are all hitting one after another (if Martin starts hitting again, which I'm sure he will). If only Furcal were leading off, Ethier 2nd and Kemp hitting 5th, Loney 6th, Kent could bat 7th. That would be quite a lineup.

Andy LaRoche went 0-3 and back under the Mendoza line. The bum.

Martin
Ethier
Loney/Kemp
Manny
Kemp/Loney
Blake
Kent

Kent only moved two spots down because Manny is here. He should be seventh.

But lineup constructs are stupid and don't matter, he tells himself over and over.

383 And Blake 8th. No hole anywhere, except Kent being variable day to day. Maybe by Sept. 5th or so?

Yusmeiro Petit, tough lefthander?

387 - Not even a lefthander.

387
I saw him pitch last year in AAA. Great control, nice off-speed pitches, but his fastball is not very good.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Hendley wasn't being serious.

Sarcasm detectors have been on the fritz today, it appears.

Wasn't he a reliever for most of the season?

Ethier is flat out benched for Pierre, bc Petit is a right hander.

Plus, Pierre is back in CF.

I've never posted here before, but have read for quite a while. I felt like I had to post something when I saw the news about Pierre. If Ethier sits on the bench for most of the time, is this Manny deal really that good? We are essentially replacing Ethier with Manny. So, what we gain in more offense, we lose in defense. Does Torre even look at stats comparing Ethier and Pierre?

NPUT

390
I just wanted to bring out my own scouting report.

394
What does that mean?