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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

McDonald Heads to Vegas
2008-08-04 12:32
by Jon Weisman

Like Clayton Kershaw, promising pitcher James McDonald has gotten a promotion from AA Jacksonville. Unlike Kershaw, McDonald will stop at AAA Las Vegas, according to Jeff Elliott of the Florida Times-Union. (Thanks to Dodger Thoughts commenter Dodgers49 for the link.)

McDonald, 24 in October, has thrown 118 2/3 innings this season, striking out 113 with a 3.19 ERA. Opponents are batting .227 against him.

It went almost unnoticed amid the Manny madness, but Kershaw had his second straight start of six shutout innings Friday, improving his season ERA+ to 110. He has thrown 115 innings this season in the majors and minors combined.

Here's where Kershaw ranks among others 20-and-under in ERA+ in Dodger history (minimum 50 innings).

Comments (83)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-08-04 12:44:10
1.   KG16
I'll give the front office credit on this, they are returning to the Dodger way of building an incredibly pitching staff. Billingsly, Kershaw, McDonald can end up being as formidable as any trio in the league.
2008-08-04 12:47:25
2.   silverwidow
We really need to investigate a Billingsley long term deal.

2009 - $500,000
2010 - $3 million (approx)
2011 - $8 million (approx)
2012 - $12 million (approx)
2013 - Free Agent

Offer him 6 yrs/$45 million. This will buy out two FA years, while still paying Chad an average of $7.5 mill per year. It's fair for both sides.

2008-08-04 12:53:13
3.   Alex41592
To answer a question from the previous thread the last Dodger to hit HR's in back to back games actually did it in back to back to back games.

5th outfielder extraordinaire Andre Ethier who homered in three straight games July 2,3 and 4.

2008-08-04 12:55:36
4.   ssjames
So to date Kershaw is the 3rd best 20 and under pitcher for the Dodgers ever that is really impressive (of course this discounts Fernando who was obviously something other then 20 when he claimed he was 20).
2008-08-04 12:58:03
5.   underdog
Off subject, but Morgan Freeman was in a bad car wreck late last night in Mississippi. He's in serious but stable condition. Say a few prayers for him!
2008-08-04 12:58:16
6.   Paul Scott
3 , 54 , 56 - Loney's predecessor hit HRs in 4 consecutive games (sort of). In a 3 game series he hit 6 - 2 in G1, 1 in G2 and 3 in G3. After such a pathetic performance, his manager "rested" him in order to "give him confidence by ensuring he was always used in the best situations for him to succeed." After the day off, he played in the next game and hit another HR, prompting his immediate need for more rest.
2008-08-04 12:59:05
7.   NWdodger
I heard Colletti on The Herd today. He didn't mention McCourt at all in explaining the ManRam deal. He said he consulted Joe about it twice and then pulled the trigger after Pittsburgh agreed to the prospect package. So much for speculation that McCourt pulled the entire thing off without Colletti.
2008-08-04 12:59:13
8.   FirstMohican
2 - That means Billingsley will be 30 at the beginning of his 1st FA year in 2014. Being a FA at 28 (as he's scheduled to be) puts him in better position to sign two very lucrative FA deals instead of one.

I guess his only incentive to sign that deal would be if he thinks he may break down or have a drop off in effectiveness. I don't see any indication for him to think either of those things are likely. If I'm the Dodgers I love that deal.

2008-08-04 12:59:17
9.   Eric Stephen
I agree with you RE: Chad (and Martin, Kemp, Broxton & Loney for that matter). However, if it's a 6-year deal, it would need to be more than $45m using your example. The first four years add up to $23.5m, leaving only an average of $10.75m for the two FA years. More than likely for a 6-year contract the total would be about $50m, probably including a $1m or so singing bonus as well.

If Chad were to sign an extension, I would guess it would be through 2012, perhaps with an option for 2013.

2008-08-04 13:04:06
10.   regfairfield
Regarding that "LaRoche can't hit good pitching" factoid, he actually has hit good pitching better than lousy pitching this year. (.649 OPS for pitchers under 3.50 ERAs, .476 for over 5.50.) Very small sample size on both numbers though.

Manny's OPS drops over 350 points against the sub 3.50 crowd versus the over 5.50.

2008-08-04 13:04:16
11.   Paul Scott
9 Even that is not realistic. Chad would do much better just accepting arbitration. Given the current market (set earlier this year by the Phillis) for long-term deals through arbitration, Bills would probably need to be paid upward of $60M to consider it - and considerably more if any of his FA years were to be covered by options.
2008-08-04 13:07:45
12.   Eric Stephen
A recent comp for Billingsley is Adam Wainwright, who signed this deal before 2008 (in the same service time area Chad will be in for 2009):

signing bonus - $750k
3rd yr - $500k
1st arb yr - $2.6m
2nd arb yr - $4.65m
3rd arb yr - $6.5m
1st FA yr - $9m option
2nd FA yr - $12m option

As far as I can tell the option has no buyout money, so the total guaranteed is 4/$15m. Chad should command more than that, but this is a rough idea for the starting point.

2008-08-04 13:09:53
13.   Dodgers49
Pirates Notebook: Two late offers for Bay spurned

>> CHICAGO -- The Pirates had made up their minds not to trade Jason Bay six minutes before Major League Baseball's trading deadline Thursday, general manager Neal Huntington said, rejecting two firm offers on their table.

But they left open one exception.

"At 3:54, we made the decision that we're either going to wait for this Boston-Los Angeles deal or we're holding onto Jason Bay and walking away from a couple other deals," Huntington said by phone from Pittsburgh. <<

## Huntington credited his calm to the work done by his scouts and new statistical analysts, Dan Fox and Eddie Epstein, the latter armed with a database for every name tossed about in late talks. ##

2008-08-04 13:11:35
14.   Eric Stephen
Eddie Epstein, the co-author (with Rob Neyer) of one of my favorite baseball books ever, "Baseball Dynasties". I believe he has worked for the Padres and Orioles in the past as well.
2008-08-04 13:11:45
15.   regfairfield
In 2007 LaRoche hit pitchers with ERAs under 3.50 better than any other group.
2008-08-04 13:12:00
16.   ToyCannon
From the list Jon provided I remembered Doyle Alexander being so much better then he actually was.
Just based on Joe Moeller's 1964 baseball card I thought he was destined for greatness. If you can't be any good when pitching for the Dodgers between 63-68 you really weren't very good.
2008-08-04 13:17:38
17.   Eric Stephen
What do you think Chad will get in his 3 arb years? I could see 7/10/13 or something to that effect, but not much higher.

Chien-Ming Wang lost his arb case as a super two and got $4m. With normal progression, his 4th year salary should be in the $6-8 range.

2008-08-04 13:18:58
18.   Paul Scott
12 Yeah, sure. All that was before Ryan Howard got $10M in his first year in arbitration. I just don't see that as relevant any longer. If all Bills is looking at is around $7-8/year, then he should wait.
2008-08-04 13:19:20
19.   evenatriple
What really caught my eye in that BR table Jon prepared were the numbers for Koufax at age 20. In fact, if you look at his first two seasons (1955-56, when he was 19 and 20), he pitched about 100 innings (combined) with 60 strikeouts and 57 walks. By 1957 he became a strikeout pitcher, but he certainly showed little evidence of that as he sat on the Brooklyn bench his first few years.

Thank goodness that Buzzie Bavasi and Walter O'Malley showed more patience with Koufax than their successors did with more recent Dodger pitching prospects.

For people who make their living evaluating baseball talent, the Koufax story must be quite humbling.

2008-08-04 13:21:24
20.   Gen3Blue
In regard to Manny and the future, how will his drop-off with age go? Is it fair to use Kent as a starting point for discussion? In other words will Manny's curve look like Kent's albeit perhaps shifted a bit higher in most offensive measures. I'd say Kent is as elite a hitter at 2nd as Manny is in the outfield.
2008-08-04 13:25:23
21.   Gen3Blue
19 IIRC Koufax was hurt by the fact that being a "bonus baby" by some rule he couldn't go to the minors so he had to work out all his problems on the bench or against major leaguers. He might have gotten going more quickly otherwise.
2008-08-04 13:28:02
22.   Eric Stephen
I agree Howard has set the bar pretty high, but also is unique in that he has the shiny MVP award under his belt to inflate his salary.
2008-08-04 13:30:41
23.   ToyCannon
Different world. The Dodgers were forced to keep him on the roster because of the bonus baby rules. It ruined many a prospect.
Sandy felt the Dodgers were very impatient with him and felt he'd been productive a lot sooner if they just let him pitch. You'd be startled if you looked at his game logs and how long he'd go between appearances.
If you want a great read on Sandy and the his reality of how the Dodgers treated him, I'd suggest the solid Jane Leary book.
2008-08-04 13:33:56
24.   Gen3Blue
I'm glad I beat the Cannon, because his explanation is better.
2008-08-04 13:37:02
25.   Paul Scott
28 Arbitration is fairly stat driven. MVP really should not matter. It's mostly a matter of arguing comparables, not BS awards. If Chad (or Russell, or Kershaw) have good agents they will be able to place Howard in context and show that they are as, if not more, valuable to their positions as Howard was to his. Personally, i think it is an easy case (assuming Bills keeps his expected progression) for him to make and there is a substantial likelihood that the bar could be set higher (or more reasonably stated, that the bar set by Howard will be more firmly entrenched) by the Time Bills is Arb ready.

This is particularly problematic for teh Dodgers as they will have Martin and Bills and Kershaw all very close to each other as being Arb eligible players that could easily command $10M in year 1.

2008-08-04 13:38:26
26.   bhsportsguy
One of the men who set up the "Bonus Baby" rules that were in place between 1953-1957, was Branch Rickey.
2008-08-04 13:38:26
27.   Jacob Burch
Also, Cannon, I think the discussion was more along the lines of "Let's make a list of the greatest hitters ever in order. Who is the highest who has ever worn a Dodger uniform"

With that, Frank Robinson is the only one I didn't see mentioned that I could come up with.

2008-08-04 13:42:53
28.   silverwidow
Billingsley and Kemp have the same agent: Dave Stewart.

I think Stew might be willing to work something out. Then again, he knows these guys are future superstars.

2008-08-04 13:46:04
29.   cargill06
As much as we complain about the Juan Pierre signing, let's take a look at our LA buddies in the OC.

GMJR has a OPS+ of 70, and was ranked as the worst defensive CF in baseball last year (not sure about this year), and has played 97 games compared to Pierre's 82. SO GMJR has been way suckier this year. So yay Pierre.

2008-08-04 13:48:49
30.   berkowit28
Loney's predecessor at 1st base was Nomar. Is that who you're referring to? Or some other sort of predecessor? (as rookie? Kemp? Martin?) It seems a strange quote (from Grady?) if it's about Nomar.
2008-08-04 13:49:34
31.   berkowit28
30 referred to 6
2008-08-04 13:51:41
32.   Eric Stephen
He was talking about Hee Seop Choi:

2008-08-04 13:55:40
33.   Deuce
29 Winning covers up mistakes. Plus, their replacement signing is Hunter, ours is Jones.
2008-08-04 13:55:51
34.   DodgerBakers
20 Well, through age 35, Ramirez's closest comps are Ken Griffey Jr., Jeff Bagwell, Frank Robinson, and Barry Bonds. His comparables have not or did not drop below a 139 OPS+ through their age 40 years.

As you can tell, I'm not a statistician, but that seems pretty good to me.

2008-08-04 13:56:25
35.   bhsportsguy
This story is going to get uglier.

2008-08-04 13:56:39
36.   Eric Stephen
I was trying to look up Stewart, because I thought he had made some critical comments about the Dodgers regarding Kemp or Billingsley, but instead I came across this humorous passage from an interview a few years ago:

"What a joke in '90. Me placing 4th. My numbers were clearly better than Welch's other than the 27 wins; in every category I killed the league. The proof is there. I couldn't overcome the 27 wins, [but] that doesn't explain not placing second above the other two guys."

The other two guys he refers to are Clemens and Eckersley. Stewart actually finished 3rd. But here's how #2 Clemens compared to Stew in 1990:

Stew: 267 IP, 22-11, 83/166 BB/K, 145 ERA+
Clemens: 228.1 IP, 21-6, 54/209 BB/K, 213 ERA+

A joke?

2008-08-04 14:00:44
37.   Eric Stephen
Would you rather have Mark Fainaru-Wada-Real or Chris Hansen on your tail? I don't think the end is pretty either way.
2008-08-04 14:01:12
38.   bhsportsguy
33 Their two players will be owed over $100M through 2011 and 2012 after this season, the Dodgers will owe $46M through 2009 and 2011.
2008-08-04 14:01:44
39.   underdog
30 I believe he was referring to Hee Seop Choi and manager Jim Tracy, so a few first baseman ago.
2008-08-04 14:03:27
40.   Tripon
36 Dave Stewart always talks about he beat Roger Clemens in head to heads. Perhaps he means that.
2008-08-04 14:03:48
41.   underdog
That'll teach me to not refresh before posting.


Btw, some amusing banter in an article by Tim Goodman about this Fall's Monday Night Football slate and their new team of hosts:

>>The two {Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann} joked readily about their chemistry and approach to highlights.

"We are just going to sit in the back of the studio - like being in the back of the classroom - and Keith and I are just going to try to make paper airplanes and do highlights and just try to keep it simple and only speak when spoken to," Patrick said. "It's sort of like joining the 'Ocean's 11' crew. This is the 'Costas 11' crew, and I'm Elliott Gould or Carl Reiner."

Olbermann: "Carl Reiner." Patrick: "Carl Reiner. Thank you. So that would make you Elliott Gould." Olbermann: "All right. I'll take Carl Reiner." Patrick: "Or the little gymnast, you can be him, too."<<

2008-08-04 14:04:31
42.   underdog

is that MNF article.

2008-08-04 14:21:43
43.   Prescott Pete

I'll be happy just to watch the football game. The rest of the side show I can do without.

2008-08-04 14:23:16
44.   Prescott Pete
41 Oh, and isn't that Sunday night football?
2008-08-04 14:23:30
45.   Tripon
BK of the L.A. Times blogs makes an important note.
It wasn't an argument simply played out in the media, but reinforced by the manager and voices within the organization. Because of it, every at bat by a player under 25 has been scrutinized and analyzed for its "professional" qualities, with mistakes magnified. In Anaheim, the same line of questioning, whether accurate in its foundation or not, would have been rejected out of hand. If the organization decided the children were the future (and in many ways, they have), support of that chosen path would ring like a mantra. We, meaning the media, would write whatever we wanted, but nobody within the Angels organization would make it easier for us. As a group, they're almost cultish about devotion to message.
2008-08-04 14:24:43
46.   D4P
I hope Olbermann has a weekly "Special Comment" on the cheaters from New England.
2008-08-04 14:28:19
47.   underdog
44 Oops, yeah, sorry, meant Sunday Night Football. It's hard to break away from the idea of Al and John and MNF. The current incarnation of MNF on ESPN is just a dull affair (that I'll still watch on occasion if the game is a good one, but usually on 'mute.')
2008-08-04 14:30:25
48.   Eric Stephen
Dave Stewart always talks about he beat Roger Clemens in head to heads. Perhaps he means that

That he did. Including the postseason, Dave Stewart and Roger Clemens were opposing starting pitchers 10 times. Stewart won 9 of those games, including 5 in 1990 (3 in the regular season).

Career Matchups
Stewart: 9-1, 74 IP, 38 K, 2.19 ERA, 1.03 WHIP
Clemens: 1-8, 56.1 IP, 51 K, 5.27 ERA, 1.63 WHIP

I still think Clemens should have won the CYA in 1990 (over both Stewart and the winner Welch), but Stewart did seem to have Clemens' number.

2008-08-04 14:34:22
49.   Sam DC
My toaster oven seems clunky and inadequate.
2008-08-04 14:36:19
50.   Bob Timmermann
This 1988 game that I went to was a thriller. And I had free tickets for the game right next to the RF foul pole. I was actually more impressed by watching Dwight Evans throw.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-08-04 15:05:29
51.   Eric Enders
Stewart has always said and done a lot of things that were, frankly, nuts, but if he was 9-1 against Clemens I can certainly see how he might believe he was the better pitcher.
2008-08-04 15:09:54
52.   Eric Enders
36 Here are the Dave Stewart comments that Eric Stephen was originally looking for:
2008-08-04 15:15:14
53.   Dodgers49
How the Manny trade went down

>> Several days before the deadline the Red Sox first requested Matt Kemp from Los Angeles, a seemingly reasonable proposition considering that the ultra-talented Kemp was known to be frustrating some of his bosses, including manager Joe Torre, with his inconsistent play and baffling baserunning.

The Dodgers said no.

The Red Sox lowered their request to a combination of young outfielder Andre Ethier and third-base prospect Andy LaRoche. Considering L.A.'s excess of outfielders and LaRoche's falling stock, that seemed more reasonable.

The Dodgers still said no. <<

## The Red Sox requested struggling shortstop prospect Chin-lung Hu (.159 average in 107 major league at-bats this season) but were told that he was on L.A.'s untouchable list. ##

2008-08-04 15:17:23
54.   Tripon
Somebody mentioned here that Bills and Martin are going to see $10 million in their first year of arbitration because they'd be in a similar situation and production as Ryan Howard. How likely is that? I thought the Ryan Howard situation was an anomaly and an over reaction of the arbitration process. If they redo the Ryan Howard scenario over again with this year numbers, he's won't get that $10 million dollars again, or maybe not even that. I'll be surprised if Russell Martin or Chad makes more than $2 million in their first year, even if they're playing more valuable positions than Ryan Howard. I'm be surprised if Howard makes more than the $10 million again for his next arbitration date.
2008-08-04 15:20:21
55.   Eric Stephen
I will bet you any amount of money that all of these things happen:

1) Howard will earn more than $10m in 2009
2) Martin will make more than $2m in 2009 (first arb year)
3) Billingsley will make more than $2m in 2010 (first arb year)

2008-08-04 15:22:43
56.   Tripon
>> Several days before the deadline the Red Sox first requested Matt Kemp from Los Angeles, a seemingly reasonable proposition considering that the ultra-talented Kemp was known to be frustrating some of his bosses, including manager Joe Torre, with his inconsistent play and baffling baserunning.

What. You mean the part where he's hitting .295/.350/.469 or the part where he plays all three outfield positions. Or the part where he has 26 steals to his 8 caught stealing. Come on Heyman. Or the part where Torre regularly praises the play of Matt Kemp. I know you hate the Dodgers, but you gotta do better than this.

2008-08-04 15:25:52
57.   KG16
53 - that makes me feel better about this front office.
2008-08-04 15:26:43
58.   Tripon
From Heyman's piece.

The Dodgers already had a glut of outfielders, and now it's a bigger glut. They were already looking for takers for Juan Pierre and Andruw Jones (the dreadful Jones would need to be accompanied by a hitting instructor), and their search can continue because both are certain to clear waivers. In either case the Dodgers would have to eat a lot more money than Boston did with Ramirez.

2008-08-04 15:28:21
59.   Eric Enders
56 I think Torre's words and actions over the course of the season could lead a reasonable person to believe that he's frustrated by Matt Kemp.

Torre, and the Dodgers in general, suffer from what Bill James once said was the most common form of mismanagement: focusing on what a player can't do and losing sight of what he can.

2008-08-04 15:30:40
60.   Xeifrank
I got a kick out of the AZSnakepit entry from after yesterday's whoopin. The author was very annoyed at how excited Dodger fans were with Manny Ramirez, throwing a few sour grape laced insults at Dodger fans and Manny himself. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-04 15:33:04
61.   underdog
60 I sometimes like that blog for the "enemy" perspective, but that sounds like a post to skip. Thanks for the warning.
2008-08-04 15:33:32
62.   Xeifrank
What are the trends major league clubs have for giving out pre-arb long-term deals to pitchers vs hitters. Seems quite risky with pitchers due to the injury concerns. I remember one astute poster here commenting one time that they'd prefer paying out the arb to young pitchers and consider it a blessing if they actually pitched effectively for that duration of time.
vr, Xei
2008-08-04 15:34:22
63.   Jonny6
Can someone more knowledgeable than me educate me a bit on the waiver process? What exactly happens when a team "claims" a player prior to clearing waivers? Does that team automatically become responsible for that player, or as I suspect is it much more complicated than that?

In other words, what is the risk for a team claiming a guy to prevent a rival from getting him, even though they have no intention of actually bringing them onto their squad?

2008-08-04 15:36:13
64.   underdog
2008-08-04 15:38:12
65.   regfairfield
60 Whatever Dodger fans do, we don't do the stupid fist pumping thing they do, so we win in the end.
2008-08-04 15:38:20
66.   Tripon
60 I was trying to find a Cards blog that would preview the Dodgers-Cards series but oddly couldn't. Maybe they're still shell shocked from losing to the Phillies last night.
2008-08-04 15:38:21
67.   trainwreck
Manny has been great and it sure is fun to have a guy you expect to make something happen everytime he is up to the plate.

But, I have already grown tired of the phrase, "Manny being Manny."

2008-08-04 15:39:12
68.   Jon Weisman
60 - Are we not allowed to get excited? I can understand being annoyed by the curtain call, but I can't really understand begrudging it.
2008-08-04 15:42:18
69.   Tripon

Just trainwreck being trainwreck.

2008-08-04 15:44:26
70.   overkill94
Manny-mania boils down to a few key points:

1. We finally got the big power bat we've been waiting for for so long
2. Any blockbuster trade will have its honeymoon period
3. Since Manny was so eager to leave Boston, it's in our best interest to be over-enthusiastic about having him here since let's be honest - he's basically a little kid that loves the attention

2008-08-04 15:45:13
71.   underdog
66 Vivo el Birdos will surely do it tomorrow.
2008-08-04 15:47:57
72.   Tripon
Gordon Edes stands by his report of Manny (or just Boras calling Theo) not wanting to leave the Red Sox.

2008-08-04 15:48:58
73.   StolenMonkey86
54 - For the Record, the Phillies got a dude from the Astros to argue their arb case. It turns out he should have compared to Miguel Cabrera or something, and since the Phils asked for too little, they lost. The Astros strike me as a stupid organizaion.

Don't forget that the Dodgers' arb cases will be argued by Kim Ng, who beat Boras over Gagne, back when Gagne was streaking.

2008-08-04 15:49:49
74.   Jonny6

So according to the primer, if Team B claims a player from Team A, they can become stuck with him. So shouldn't we put Pierre on the waiver wire just on the off chance that someone would claim him? You never know, stranger things have happened. Maybe it's a poorly designed drop down menu and there happens to be a really desirable player in the alphabetical vicinity. There doesn't seem to be a downside for a team placing overpriced, past mistakes on the waiver wire, so why wouldn't we put both Pierre and Jones on waivers.

As a general rule, do most players placed on waivers sail through unclaimed?

2008-08-04 15:50:13
75.   trainwreck
Anyone here ever watch the IT Crowd?
2008-08-04 15:50:35
76.   Eric Enders
I was also rather annoyed by the inappropriate curtain call, but Arizona fans are the last ones who should be critical. Their fan base is basically a dumbed-down version of the Dodgers' fans.
2008-08-04 15:51:34
77.   Eric Enders
74 "So shouldn't we put Pierre on the waiver wire"

That has almost certainly already happened.

2008-08-04 15:53:18
78.   berkowit28
Anyone else find that the MLB Scoreboard page for today (and any day except yesterday) gets an error page?
2008-08-04 15:57:11
79.   Tripon
The 2nd curtain call screams of the crowd trying to break in a new toy. I was personally waiting for Casey Blake's curtain call a couple nights back and when it didn't come I was crushed. Just crushed. Why was the praise for the gutty little Bruin- I mean, Breadface?
2008-08-04 15:58:37
80.   overkill94
76 Awww, where's your sense of fun? My interpretation was the fans saying "see, this is what we'll do for you if keep your act together and continue mashing for the rest of the year, no matter how inappropriate it may be."
2008-08-04 16:00:28
81.   Jon Weisman
2008-08-04 16:01:09
82.   underdog
Speaking of Casey Blake, I have a new nickname proposal for him, instead of the muppet character idea:

I've been so wooooooooooooooooooooried about him.

2008-08-05 05:06:16
83.   dgrimes248
and speaking of Blake............why haven't the Dodgers requested that he shave his beard? especially if they request that
Mmanny "clean-up" his apprearance/
personally, I think both players should dress/appear the way that they personally choose.

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