Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with
Use your best reliever in a tight situation whenever it comes up. If you need an out - give yourself the best chance of getting the out. Worry about the rest later. Rest pitchers when they need to rest - not because you've rendered them irrelevant by using lesser pitchers.Luck and misfortune, good performances and lesser ones, sent the Dodgers into extra innings Tuesday. For the second time this season, rain short-circuited the outing of the team's best starting pitcher, Chad Billingsley. Joe Beimel hit Rick Ankiel with an 0-2 fastball with the bases loaded. James Loney hit into two double plays ... yet his weakest grounder of the ninth kept alive a four-run, game-tying, ninth-inning rally initiated by Andruw Jones' third home run this season.
Andre Ethier, Russell Martin and Jeff Kent also had key hits in that ninth and Casey Blake a sacrifice fly, while Manny Ramirez showed great discipline in taking a walk when the Cardinals were almost-but-not-quite pitching around him. (Jason Isringhausen blew the save, but that doesn't change the dancing quality of the pitches he threw to the Dodgers' new cleanup hitter.) Matt Kemp and Ethier then added singles in the 10th ... yet Martin had one of his poorest at-bats of the season, hacking away at the first three pitches before capping it with a hopeless swing at a pitch in the dirt.
Cory Wade pitched admirably in relief (and even drew a walk in his first career plate appearance after being down 0-2), handling the ninth and 10th innings and reinforcing what an unsung hero he has been to the bullpen this season ... yet the game ended with the Dodgers sending Jason Johnson, who had thrown 87 pitches 56 hours earlier, instead of Jonathan Broxton, who was available, to face the Cardinals' best hitters in the bottom of the 11th. (Hong-Chih Kuo was declared unavailable, which was understandable.)
The manager's rationale for saving Broxton is that he is the closer, and you don't want to rely on Johnson to protect a lead. This is like worrying about who will guard the safe in the morning after you've left it unlocked overnight. It gets tiresome to repeat this, but when you know one run will cost you the game, you should be using your best pitcher. The alternative is a) you get to use a lesser pitcher when there's more margin for error after your team has scored runs, or b) you get to use a lesser pitcher with no margin for error, but at least you know you gave the game your best shot.
Now, that argument places Broxton in the game even earlier, which I'm fine with - it could have easily minimized the deficit the Dodgers had to overcome. From the article linked above ... The Reliever Reciprocity Rule, or Triple R, or RRR:
If you would use a reliever in a given moment in a game with a lead of X, you should use him with a deficit of X. ... Close games are winnable, whether you are in the lead or trailing. If the reliever is available to work with a lead, he is available to work without a lead. If he needs to rest that game, he needs to rest no matter what.In other words, using Broxton sooner in a game won't make him any more overworked than using him later. If you know you're in a close game now, you don't need to try to guess whether you'll be in a close game the next day.
The other rationale for using Johnson is that with the pitcher's spot having just passed by, you're hoping he'll be able to pitch until that spot comes up again. But the odds of getting that much work out of Johnson were slim - and in any case, the only pinch-hitters left on the Dodger bench were Danny Ardoin and Kuo. So that justification becomes rather irrelevant.
Tuesday's game was a big stew of good and bad - I didn't even mention that Mark Sweeney hit a solid line drive in the ninth that could have given the Dodgers the lead had the ball found its way past Albert Pujols. It's no fun watching the team hit into three double plays or fail to handle a few groundball plays competently. But that's all part of playing the game.
But a manager shouldn't have to be so ignorant of which is a more crucial, pressure-packed situation - the situation that truly requires a pitcher to close down the opposition - pitching in a tie game, or pitching with a lead. It's really rather remarkable that baseball conventional wisdom considers falling near the cliff more dangerous than falling over it.
* * *
Tony Jackson of the Daily News talked to Martin and Torre about Martin's 10th-inning at-bat:
Martin said opposing pitchers don't appear to be attacking him any differently with Ramirez behind him than they were before.
"It's tough to say, but I haven't really noticed anything major yet," he said. "Guys are trying to get you out the way they always try to get you out. It's a game of adjustments. (In the 10th), I was just trying to get a ball in the air, trying to drive it to the outfield. I really wish I could have that at-bat back, but there is nothing you can really do."
Cardinals reliever Ryan Franklin struck Martin out on a 2-2 pitch in the dirt, a sign Martin might be over-adjusting with Ramirez on deck.
"Sometimes, it works against you," Dodgers manager Joe Torre said. "I think Russell got a little aggressive there. If you think having Manny behind you means you're going to get a pitch to hit, maybe you're not as selective. ... But again, he was aggressive, and I don't want to take that away from him."
The last thing I mean to do is come down on Martin, who is still tremendous. It was a noteworthy at-bat, but it was one at-bat.
That reminds me of this (or vice versa):
(Torre, on having Manny in the lineup): "I don't think it's the home run; it's the threat of hitting the home run," Torre said. "It's going to put the opposing pitcher on notice that you're going to have to work hard to get through this."
Technically, Ryan Franklin blew the save for allowing the tying sacrifice fly. Isringhausen got a hold for his 1/3 IP, 3 R, 5 baserunner performance.
http://tinyurl.com/552sjb
>>General manager John Mozeliak was less circumspect, suggesting there would be a meeting with La Russa and pitching coach Dave Duncan.
"Tony, Dunc' and I will talk about what just happened. We can't keep giving games away," Mozeliak said. "We've been very supportive of Izzy. At some point you have to get results." <<
Seems to me the point is that "Torre is no better than his predecessors."
Continue repeating until your hair falls out and you constantly compare your players to late 90's Yankees players.
Only then will you understand the true genius that is Joseph Paul Torre.
#1. Blake Dewitt should be traded to the Cardinals. There were a ton of Blake Dewitt jerseys at the ballpark last night. I'm not sure if he still gets a ticket allottment with being in the minors, but it seems like all of his town was there last nite cheering him on in spirit (since he wasnt there). Cory Wade was also very popular. He probably signed more autographs before the game than any Dodger.
#2. Between the rain delays,--> Loney, Ethier, Kemp all came out on the field to stretch and get ready. Even Juan Pierre did bc he was going to pinch hit. Blake/Berroa also came out to stretch. Manny/Kent never come out to the field unless its game time. When we got to the game, I seen Ethier getting stretched out & figured he was in the lineup. It was a pleasant surprise to see Torre play the best lineup of the year, only then for the Dodgers to go scoreless for 8 innings. Thats baseball I guess.
#3. Cardinal fans hate Isringhausen. They were boo'ing before he even came in. We were getting ready to leave after the 8th inning, but we figured to stay just in case the Cards brought him in. The rocket off Andruw Jones bat was the biggest surprise of the night though it was off Villone.
#4. Its kinda fitting that since the last game I saw the Dodgers play in St. Louis, Loney hit a homer to win the game. This game, he was dreadful. 2 DPs, left the bases loaded (though he made pretty good contact on a low liner to LF), and that squib in the 9th. He also should have been given the error on Berroa's throw for failing to dig it. Berroa actually made a nice stop to get to it, although it probably evens out since there was another play hit at Berroa that was scored a hit but should have been an error. Casey Blake made some nice stops at 3b. His metrics may say he sucks, but last night he was very good in the field. Manny did fine in LF. I didnt see him loaf around much. Kent has no range.
#5. All the home runs last night were no doubters off the bat. Its amazing that you can tell they are gone literally split seconds from the crack of the bat to midway up its trajectory.
#6. We were waiting for either Broxton or Kuo to come in & they never did. I figured Broxton must be hurt or something, but no reason for Kuo to not come in. It was going to be hard for Jason Johnson to go through the middle of the Cards order.
#7. The Cardinal ushers are really strange. They began kicking out most of the unruly fans from their sections. But they did not kick them out of the game. They just kicked them out of their section & told them to go to other sections.
#8. Izturis either has a weak arm, or he knows just exactly what to put on each throw to get the baserunner out. Adam Kennedy probably had the best game of anyone last night, spraying line drives all over.
If Manny continues to hit .600 or better, I think the Dodgers make the playoffs.
12 I've been there, and it drives one nuts.
vr, Xei
If a reliever can get a "Win" for recording one out, there's no reason a starter should have to record 15 outs.*
*That being said, the Win statistic should be abolished anyway.
The Pujols K, throw the runner out at 3b play was huge (and surprising). Kemp also made a nice catch on the Izturis blooper with the bases loaded. It was bad baserunning by the guy at 3b. He should have tagged bc Kemp was way off balance to make a good throw to the plate.
14 works for me.
What was the point of the observation?
"#7. The Cardinal ushers are really strange. They began kicking out most of the unruly fans from their sections. But they did not kick them out of the game. They just kicked them out of their section & told them to go to other sections."
I love that. Kind of what we do with the homeless. In reality they probably just didn't have tickets for that section and were told to move. The key to seat hopping is not to draw attention to yourself.
I know, but I was just expanding upon his point. Trying to get wins and saves for individual pitchers is not always the best thing to do from the team's standpoint.
Why are you so antagonistic?
Not every single post has to have some deep meaning, as I've proven on several occasions.
We get it. You think Joe Torre is overpaid. You think its silly to pay a manager $4m since for the most part they are all similar. We got it after your first 500 posts on the subject.
I'm not trying to be antagonistic: I'm asking what the point of Jon's observation was, if not to give credit to Torre for not being worse than other managers. To me, that seemed to be the point. Jon said it wasn't.
Which is another way of saying that Torre is not worse than the other managers. I guess that's fine, but it doesn't seem to be the correct standard, at least not if we're trying to evaluate Torre being our manager, and doing so under his current contract. I don't think we're trying to evaluate whether to bring back Tracy or Grittle.
But I'm not mad and not trying to argue.
Look at the pretty flowers and butterflies and stuff. "Tra la la la la..."
Considering that I criticized Torre today and in the past and questioned his hiring, it does feel you're being argumentative. It's like you're looking for the most positive interpretation of my comments just so you can critique them, although I appreciate you being in a good mood.
You can't teach an old dog new tricks.
That is all.
5/12/05: 10-3 Cards; Lowe 5 IP, 10 H, 6 R, 2 ER
7/14/06: 5-0 Cards; Lowe 6 IP, 11 H, 4 R
8/11/07: 6-1 Cards; Lowe 6 IP, 7 H, 5 R, 3 ER
Hopefully the new park will provide a different result for Lowe and the Dodgers.
I'm guessing Lisa Bonet was involved.
The story is far more prosaic.
That said, I've said it before and I'll say it again, Torre is a better manager than Jim Tracy and Grady Little, and Bill Russell. And Glenn Hoffman. Period. YES, he's overpaid, I agree with D4P on that (separate from the issue of how overpaid many players are). And YES that manager bar is set pretty low, absolutely. (In fact, I sort of cringe when I type those names above.) Yes, he does stupid things - though last night I didn't not disagree with any of his moves, EXCEPT the Broxton no-show, which could be a crucial one. The fact that he sometimes goes 2-3 games, imho, without making any noticeably stupid decisions, is not really the strongest defense in the world, but again compared to the daily frustrations I felt with his predecessors, maybe I'm just resigned to accept his occasional stupidities.
I agree we could have a cheaper manager who could be no worse, and maybe even better (though Ron Gardenhire is unavailable at the moment). Maybe Don Mattingly would/will be better.
And I have no problem criticizing specific wrongheaded, or debatably wrongheaded, decisions by Torre. It's just the misty-eyed reevaluation of the people behind him that drives me bonkers. They were not as "good" (again, not a high bar) as Torre. And we can definitely do better. That's just mho.
I hope we see Broxton today - for the save.
3 Games
Fernando
Dwight Gooden
Ed Correa (!!)
2 Games
Dwight Gooden (3 times; twice as a 19-year old, once as a 20-year old)
Clayton Kershaw (last two starts)
Bert Blyleven
Bret Saberhagen
Don Gullett
I think Punto brings "energy" to the team.
Mattingly?
(Two of my faves will likely not be available but you never know, they could be enticed, Gardenhire and Scioscia)
Logan White? (j/k)
Terry Collins?
Trimph the Dog?
The grass is always greener.
I'd like to see the triumphant return of the player/manager. Although I don't think Russell Martin (the obvious choice) would give himself any days off. :)
How about writing Pierre not Ethier down on paper before almost every game? If we lose the NL west by 2 games thats going to be real tough to take.
Tracy was the worst in this regard, the starter could have thrown 60 pitches through six innings and still be pulled because it was time to go to whomever. Torre is frustrating because we know exactly who he's going to go to, and what the likely result will be. As much as I hate to admit it, Grady was the best of the last three when it came to bullpen management.
Unfortunately, I didn't see all of last night's game, and I suspect that the rain delays had a major effect on the use of the pen; but the late inning usage was incredibly poor.
Or Greg Maddux?
Seriously?
I guess I saw too many games in person over the previous two seasons where t hat wasn't the case so maybe my results/beliefs in that regard are skewed unfairly...
Farbeit from me to argue with you. I will assimilate.
I suspect Martin is starting to wear down because of all the catching he does. His at-bats over the last week or so don't seem like the Russell Martin he all know and love. So I propose...
1. Kemp CF
2. Ethier RF
3. Blake 3B
4. Manny LF
5. Loney 1B
6. Martin C
7. Kent 2B
8. Berroa SS
Basically the same as it was last night, just flip-flopping Blake and Martin. I think logic would say that Martin is a better April/May hitter than Blake, while Blake is probably going to be a better Aug/Sept hitter than Russ.
I was YESSSSing and NOOOOOOing all by my lonesome. I think I even said I'd buy Andruw Jones a DT t-shirt for that home run.
He'd recognize his mistakes -- like his at-bat in the last inning -- and work not to repeat them. Torre, not so much.
I don't know whether Martin is wearing down because of all the catching he does or not. But I do know this:
OPS by Month in 2008:
April: 926
May: 851
June: 803
July: 738
August: 513
I make no claims about what these numbers mean.
Anyway, the question I have is do you think Joe Giradi(which was the Dodgers first pick, and the Yankees first pick) would be a better manager?
She is a nice person, so I am not going to be the skunk at the picnic, but any ideas of a non-offensive question to ask him?
Agreed. I can not see rule 14 either
You can't see "Animal Style" on the menu at In N Out, but that doesn't make it any less available, or delicious.
No love for In N Out? My giant safety pin mocks you!
If Shannen Doherty showed up at your home, I would check to make sure your homeowner's insurance policy was paid up.
Home runs in Tampa Bay today by Franklin Gutierrez AND Dioner Navarro.
vr, Xei
I understood that, but I surreptitiously changed the subject.
I suppose the Islands Burgers across the street has better burgers, but I don't want to spend extra time at a sit down place today at lunch.
You just want to enter and leave as quickly as possible...?
I can still picture a BH90210 commercial that shows her crying, I think right after some bad bedroom experience. I didn't see the episode itself, but I think it was maybe about her going all the way too soon or something? Anyway, then I compare it to the Gossip Girl ads of today - quite a change.
No, more that the time it takes at In N Out, if I go in and sit down to eat, is far less than the time spent at Islands.
That said, I might do drive through while running other errands.
Fast Food Thoughts!
There is no emoticon for how I am feeling right now.
Quality or quantity? I think the quality of the meat itself is amazing! but... their patty size usually leaves much to be desired.
but that's why they invented the 3x3!
probably more towards quantity, but a flame grill would be nice
I just miss the curly fries from Amy's
At the In N Out I used to work at (Thousand Palms, CA), the closest burger joint one could reasonably claim was better is Red Robin, which is 1.8 miles away. Ha! :)
Fat Burger vs In n Out. THAT is a problem I like to have.
In Santa Barbara, I have In N Out, Fat Burger, and the Habit. For sit down restaurants, there's a place called the Paradise Cafe that serves the best hamburger I've ever had. It's so meaty, grilled on a mesquite flame broiler, and topped with freshly grilled onions and a cheese of your choice.
The Santa Barbara Brewing Company has great burgers too. Did I miss any?
There could be a class action suit here.
...but as long as we're on fast food thoughts, here's a shoutout to current fave-rave Chick-Fil-A. Mmm, love me some Chick-Fil-A.
Kevin, are you referring to the Amy's on Walnut that closed this year?
"I'm so hungry I could even eat Arby's"
[groans and shrieks]
It had to be done.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz....
My girlfriend is a vegetarian, which pretty much makes me a vegetarian too.
The Habit and FatBurger were also two of my favorites, back in the day. That and Super Rica, of course.
Now I'm really hungry. Who cares about the Dodgers? I need a turkey burger and fries.
Since when do you have a girlfriend, and why hadn't we been apprised?
What about the In N Out on Radford? Those are some good burgers.
The In N Out is on Camrose.
Those are some good burgers, Walter.
--
I had an ex-roomie who was a bit of a pothead and so he'd inevitably get the munchies, which I understand, but we lived in the Mission in San Francisco. When he wanted Mexican food he'd make a run for the border, the nearby Taco Bell instead of one of the many incredibly good taquerias. I couldn't believe it. "This isn't Colorado Springs, man, it's the Mission -- get it together!"
Danica McKellar?
I had a "Best Will Ferrell comedy" poll this week that had this choice at the end: "I am sick to death of Will Ferrell comedies!" That one is winning by a wide margin.
The only movie of his I've seen is "Blades of Glory."
Best comedic movie duo. It allows you to use the hot Ferrell/Reilly combo and compare with the greats.
I don't think I've eaten there in the 2000s.
Let me check something. "Comedy" implies "funny", right...?
Hmm, good suggestions.
Maybe I can do a best Morgan Freeman performance in honor of his recovery process.
yep. it was weird. They opened one morning, and by lunch they were shut down
Hope and Crosby, Martin and Lewis, Abbott and Costello were good but I am not sure it really translated well to film in terms as a comedy duo or team.
I think the new guys (Frat Pack) make movies together and some are really funny but I am not sure they are true duo or team.
in the 5-4 loss to the Cards last night Jeff Kent's lack of range showed twice...two grounders got by him, ones that others should have gotten to i believe...i like Jeff Kent, but being a middle infielder may be too much for him at this stage of his career...maybe 3rd base? 1st?
anyone disagree, or agree and see a better solution?
As far as Martin goes he's been doing a magnificent job and you can't expect the same players to do well and carry the
load everytime.
This game showed that after Carpenter was out of the way, the Dodgers came back to rally to a tie in the ninth.
They lost to a great NL contender and they fought real hard to the end.
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