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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

An Olympic Anthem
2008-08-06 11:22
by Jon Weisman

If I were writing about something that happened 20 years ago 20 years ago, I'd be talking about when I was a baby. Today, I'm talking about being a college student the last time Asia hosted the Summer Olympics before this weekend and the only time the continent hosted me.

I got a job as a production assistant for NBC and spent five weeks in Seoul, working all but one day of my voyage. It was quite an experience, taking place just before my senior year - in fact, I missed the first few days of school (as well as Orel Hershiser's scoreless inning streak) because of it. But it was worth it.

That fall, I also began writing a column for the sports section of The Stanford Daily. The piece below was my debut, sent via Wally Matthews' TRS-80 across phone lines extending half a world away and published September 27, 1988 ...

(I apologize for the awful picture quality - and in fact had planned to run more. We're having scanner issues at home.)

Intrigue, psychodrama and Mr. Kim - one man's Olympics

UntitledSEOUL, South Korea - When nothing's safe and nothing's sane amidst all the fireworks of the Summer Olympics, one gets used to being expendable.

That's true whether you are a runner (gopher, slave, whatever you want to call it) for NBC's boxing coverage or a medal-contending boxer. You accept the extraordinary because everything here is extraordinary.

So last week, I'm assigned to go on an errand to the main NBC office at the International Broadcasting Center. Going in the car with me are Janis Murray, an NBC camerawoman who is going to see a doctor, and boxing announcers Marv Albert and Ferdie Pacheco, who are going back to their hotel.

UntitledOur driver, Mr. Kim Jae Ok, is not different from many other drivers in South Korea, who are aggressive, weaving though traffic like it were needlepoint and holding down the horn like they are wrestling down a grizzly bear.

He is rather the most extreme, a Korean driver raised exponentially, the Steinbrenner of the expressway.

Anyway, the decision comes up as to whether Albert or I will be the third to squeeze into the back seat. Pacheco became known as the "Fight Doctor" for being in Muhammad Ali's corner for over a decade. He has acquired a keen mind for analyzing situations both in and out of the ring.

Therefore, his word is accepted as gospel when he says simply, "Well, we can't afford to lose Marv." I sit uncomfortably, if temporarily, in the front seat.

But there really was no need for me to worry. As Albert said about our upcoming drive, "There can't be any more controversy than what we had today."

You can always count on a television announcer for a good transition.

You see, we've been having an informal competition on how best to describe the mayhem of the first week of 1988 Olympic boxing. Albert's word was "intrigue." Wally Matthews, the third boxing announcer, chose "ugly psychodrama." My humble offering was "full-contact tag-team floor hysteria."

It had been a wild 24 hours for the NBC crew leading up to the morning of Sept. 20th - and this is even before a melee broke out over a decision against Korean boxer Byun Jung-Il Sept. 22.

Just after wrapping up a story about a Canadian boxer winning his protest, a rarity in itself, we realized American middleweight Anthony Hembrick hadn't shown up for his first fight.

I'm camped out in the production truck again this morning, so I'm not down at ringside. But with all the cameras, I'm everywhere.

One camera has the shot of the Korean opponent, Ha Jong-Ho, sitting placidly in his corner. Another camera follows Matthews around as he tries to unravel the controversy. Another peers up a tunnel toward the dressing room.

Five minutes after the fight was supposed to start, Hembrick and U.S. Coach Ken Adams walk in their warmup suits. As they begin explaining what happened, Ha is announces as the winner of the fight by walkover.

With this extraordinary gaffe by the United States coming to fruition, we get word from the control room at the IBC that NBC wants us to be ready to go on the air live. That, more than anything else, unleashed our own "ugly psychodrama."

Even though we will go on "live," there are so many people that have to be interviewed that a package of taped material had to be put together within minutes.

That meant Matthews, who was solely a newspaper reporter for Newsday until this spring, suddenly materialized as Sam Donaldson. He thrust his microphone into one argument between boxing officials, and interviewed many witnesses, including Adams, who said he had misread the schedule.

UntitledMatthews made his way into the dressing room to interview Hembrick.

Hembrick starts to mumble something, then trails off.

They're yelling back at us from the IBC, "Are you ready? Are you ready?" just as we're putting the final touches on our report.

They come to us, and we come back with a sizzling 4-minute, 50-second package that explains every existing detail of the infamy, not stopping to virtually castigate Adams for not being competent enough to make sure, for crying out loud, to get his fighter to his Olympic debut on time. I mean, I've never missed a final at Stanford, and I rarely give a gold medal performance at the damn thing.

And yet, as I'm watching, I realize that as good as this report is, with a crew of 30 working on it down to my "expendable" duties of relaying messages and getting coffee to keep the thing going, we can't convey the extraordinary experience any more than Hembrick can.

Fifteen minutes after it ends, my boss, John Cregg, comes up to me and says with a smile, "Put on your crash helmet."

And so, I'm driving back from the IBC with Mr. Kim Jae Ok. A religious seat-belt wearer in the States, I disdain it now and I still don't know exactly why.

I just know it has something to do with the Olympics.

Mr. Kim is absolutely not looking at the road but rather at me. He's pointing excitedly at a pin in his collection and saying wildly, "Norway! Norway!"

I'm just laughing. As if I thought I could make him understand the situation (as if it mattered) - I try to make him look back at the road, saying, "Korea! Korea!"

Comments (215)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-08-06 11:30:29
1.   bhsportsguy
You could have been the Jeff Zucker.
2008-08-06 11:34:32
2.   Greg Brock
The Roy Jones Jr. fight is available online.

A bigger travesty, we will never see.

2008-08-06 11:36:48
3.   scareduck
Re bhsportsguy's 147 in the prior thread -- Better all-time supporting actor, Claude Rains or Thomas Mitchell? -- Claude Rains, hands down. "I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!" I can't think of a single memorable line uttered by Mitchell.
2008-08-06 11:37:07
4.   bhsportsguy
1 Jeff Zucker got his start at NBC by being a researcher at that Olympics for Bob Costas.
2008-08-06 11:37:29
5.   Jon Weisman
2 - Yeah, that came the next week. Absolutely one of the biggest farces I've ever witnessed.
2008-08-06 11:38:50
6.   Jon Weisman
4 - Yep. I was a researcher at the '92 Games and had the thrill of telling Bob what Pericles' claim to fame was.

1992 was when Jim Bell, who now runs the Today Show, got his start.

2008-08-06 11:38:54
7.   Humma Kavula
Jon, did you know Andy Gluck during your Olympic tenure? I imagine that there were a LOT of people there, so maybe not.
2008-08-06 11:39:03
8.   underdog
I was just about to post this in previous thread, where we were talking about movie poll ideas. Anyway, I came up with this one:

In honor of our favorite recuperating actor.

2008-08-06 11:40:51
9.   Greg Brock
And Park Si Hun has stolen the gold!--Marv Albert

And then Roy Jones starts to cry and walks away.

2008-08-06 11:42:47
10.   bhsportsguy
3 Yes, but that movie is just filled with great lines.
2008-08-06 11:46:20
11.   Jon Weisman
7 - I did - in fact, I met him on the plane over.
2008-08-06 11:49:11
12.   Humma Kavula
I worked for Andy when I was in college in Boston -- he helped run a company called Working Media, which was a small publisher. We worked on American Movie Classics Magazine -- the zine they used to (and maybe still do) hawk on the cable channel -- as well as a couple of Information Please almanacs and a number of other projects.

Andy was extraordinarily kind to me.

2008-08-06 11:52:41
13.   Jon Weisman
12 - Yeah, he was a good guy. It was a good group in general.

FYI, Kenny Albert, Marv's son, was the other boxing P.A. The fellow I'm "punching" in the top picture is Matt Gallant, who also went on to an on-camera career.

2008-08-06 11:55:50
14.   bhsportsguy
13 You two had this conversation, though less detailed than today about 2 1/2 years ago.

2008-08-06 11:59:45
15.   Jon Weisman
14 - How embarrassing. I didn't remember.
2008-08-06 12:02:41
16.   bhsportsguy
15 The funny part is that Humma asks almost the same exact question.

But then we do repeat ourselves a lot here and I only found it when I was looking up Andy Gluck and that link came up in the search.

Since it was almost the same conversation (though less detailed) I thought I would point it out.

2008-08-06 12:02:50
17.   D4P
All-time Biggest Farce-Travesties:

1. Patriots cheat Rams in Super Bowl
2. Korean boxer given decision over Roy Jones

2008-08-06 12:05:04
18.   Eric Stephen
The NBC research crew from the 1988 Olympics is starting to look like the 1993 Charlotte Knights.
2008-08-06 12:06:26
19.   Eric Stephen
I'd put Jones #1, with the 1972 Russia-USA basketball final #2.
2008-08-06 12:07:17
20.   KG16
There were a few years when I was intrigued by the Olympics, but not drawn to it. That's changed the last couple of times around because I actually know some Olympians.

I went to high school with a member of the women's indoor volleyball team; I know a couple (it use to be more) of the girls on the water polo team, and a few on the guys team. That's really changed my perspective.

Plus I'm looking forward to being a fan of track and field for the required two weeks every four years.

2008-08-06 12:07:33
21.   underdog
Speaking of the Olympics, I thought it didn't start for another day, and yet saw this morning that the US women's soccer team has already lost a game (to Norway 2-0). :-( They really miss Wambach. But can beat Japan and NZ and still move on.
2008-08-06 12:08:46
22.   D4P
There are events before the opening ceremony...?
2008-08-06 12:09:40
23.   KG16
22 - they've been doing that the last couple times around, usually for soccer, because of the size of the tournament.
2008-08-06 12:11:34
24.   Eric Stephen
I sort of watch the Olympics in passing, something on in the background if you will. My favorite are the fringe events, such as walking, which combines funny-looking walk/racing with hyper-agressive soccer-style referees.
2008-08-06 12:11:46
25.   underdog
22 Apparently! I wish someone had told me. Not that I missed much...
2008-08-06 12:11:49
26.   Greg Brock
I understand hating the Patriots cheating, but no sports event is worse than the Park Si Hun fight. Nothing. Zero things.
2008-08-06 12:11:49
27.   Bob Timmermann
And now DT wants me to sign up for a Korean dating site.
2008-08-06 12:12:43
28.   trainwreck
I am getting an ad for an International Korean dating site.

I'm tempted to join.

2008-08-06 12:12:52
29.   underdog
OT, but I don't think I've ever rooted for a QB from a team other than my favorite any harder than I am for Aaron Rodgers.
2008-08-06 12:15:16
30.   Eric Stephen
Yep, I hope he does well too. He completed something like eleventy straight passes in 2004 against USC, nearly derailing the championship run.
2008-08-06 12:15:22
31.   Humma Kavula
16 That IS embarrassing. I didn't remember either.

But then I tend to repeat myself even in everyday conversation, so perhaps it isn't surprising.

2008-08-06 12:15:33
32.   trainwreck
Did you hear the story about the 7 year old Packer fan that came up to him during practice and started cussing him out?
2008-08-06 12:17:46
33.   Eric Stephen
I think Brett Favre should go to Philly so he can follow his look-a-like Geoff Jenkins.

Either that or the Rays can execute a waiver trade.

2008-08-06 12:21:28
34.   dzzrtRatt
29 Amen! The passion Favre is inspiring both leaves me cold and makes me ill. So incredibly selfish.

Plus, the NFL needs another great QB from Cal.

2008-08-06 12:22:03
35.   Bob Timmermann
23 straight passes. The incompletion came on a pass that should have been ruled backwards and a fumble out of bounds.

I think the USC scoring crew was on the take from Tee Martin.

2008-08-06 12:23:54
36.   Greg Brock
There has to be someplace on this earth where I don't have to hear about Brett Favre.
2008-08-06 12:24:04
37.   KG16
I want to see Aaron Rodgers do well (mainly because I thought he'd do well when he was originally drafted). But I don't want to see the Packers win. I am, I believe, in a quandry.

Perhaps if he has a historically good season and the defense has a historically bad one. that would work.

2008-08-06 12:25:30
38.   Bob Timmermann
Osama bin Laden's latest tape weighs in on the Brett Favre situation.
2008-08-06 12:28:57
39.   trainwreck
2008-08-06 12:29:31
40.   underdog
32 Indeed I did. That was sort of the final straw. And I'm with KG, I want him to do well but have a hard time rooting for the Packers. But that's the only way he'll win the hearts and minds of the Cheeseheads. Which is what they're acting like right now. Quandary, indeed.

I am going to great pains to not type in that other guy's name but I would love to see him banished to the Dolphins.

2008-08-06 12:30:23
41.   Xeifrank
Jon, must've been a great experience in S.Korea during the Olympics. Also, looks like we got a Korean Dating Service Ad out of your latest piece. :)

Just an observation, but it seems to me like the S.Koreans are the biggest whiners when it comes to losing in Olympic competition. Whether it be boxing or speed skating, I've always been a little annoyed of them in the Olympics because of this.

Ever since the Olympics were awarded to China, I have been wondering how on earth were they going to have these world class atheletes compete outdoors in what I would guess is the worst smog in the world. Even with all their so-called pollution control for this years games, I think most of it will come down to weather. I hope all the atheletes have brought their anti-biotics with them, and don't test positive for drugs because of them.
vr, Xei

2008-08-06 12:33:36
42.   bhsportsguy
41 Broad generalizations are probably not the way to go right now unless you want everyone to judge China based on this upcoming Olympics.
2008-08-06 12:34:45
43.   Bob Timmermann
The Ecuadorians whine a lot when they lose in the Olympics.

It's just that no one notices.

2008-08-06 12:36:11
44.   Bob Timmermann
In the third at Wrigley, the Cubs have a grand slam from DeRosa, an RBI double from Marquis, and a 3-run homer from Soriano.
2008-08-06 12:36:31
45.   Xeifrank
42. Oh, ok.
2008-08-06 12:36:34
46.   trainwreck
I think everyone already has their broad generalizations about every country in the Olympics.
2008-08-06 12:39:42
47.   Greg Brock
I root for things to go horribly awry.

So these olympics have a lot of potential.

2008-08-06 12:39:48
48.   Jon Weisman
It won't surprise anyone that I'm an Olympic fan, but my day job and working on the book and DT are going to prevent me from seeing much this time around. Probably I'll have it on in the background when the Dodgers aren't playing. We'll see if my daughter gets into the gymnastics or swimming at all, or if she's gonna hold out for biathlon in 2010.
2008-08-06 12:41:59
49.   trainwreck
We all know that MMA will save the Olympics one day : )
2008-08-06 12:42:13
50.   bhsportsguy
48 With your hours and the time difference, you could probably catch most events live via the web.

Now you may not get much sleep but then you probably don't get much anyways.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-08-06 12:42:23
51.   delias man
D-backs- Bucs just underway in AZ.
2008-08-06 12:46:08
52.   D4P
Anyone else having trouble getting Gameday to load in Firefox today...?
2008-08-06 12:50:41
53.   Xeifrank
52. Everyone's busy finding dates. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 12:52:34
54.   D4P
Except for Greg and his mysterious vegetarian lady-friend who we've never heard anything about.
2008-08-06 12:53:09
55.   delias man
52 working well for me.
2008-08-06 12:53:13
56.   Greg Brock
If you're even remotely interested in these olympics, I'd suggest reading James Fallows at The Atlantic.
2008-08-06 12:53:38
57.   delias man
I sometimes have trouble getting the video highlights to load.
2008-08-06 12:53:45
58.   Greg Brock
54 It was a line from Pulp Fiction.

I would never date a vegan.

2008-08-06 12:54:47
59.   trainwreck
Joe Sheehan is on ESPNews ripping on Juan Pierre.
2008-08-06 12:54:48
60.   Greg Brock
Or vegetarian. Whatever.
2008-08-06 12:55:06
61.   D4P
Ah, so. I've never seen that movie.
2008-08-06 12:58:14
62.   Xeifrank
wow, 3 runs in the bottom of the 9th so far for the 150:1s!!
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 13:04:09
63.   Bob Timmermann
The Cleveland bullpen is turning in a typical performance for this year.
2008-08-06 13:05:46
64.   Xeifrank
63. They waited to fall off a cliff before bringing in their best reliever. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 13:06:07
65.   Xeifrank
Pena walk off HR, how predictable. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 13:06:35
66.   Bob Timmermann
That may have been one of the worst 9th inning performance by a bullpen ever.

Tampa Bay went double, double, home run, single, walk, home run to score six runs.

2008-08-06 13:06:40
67.   Jon Weisman
59 - He has a BP column out today doing the same.
2008-08-06 13:10:09
68.   underdog
You'd think Cleveland would find space in their sorry bullpen for Meloan somewhere.


Speaking of which, no Andy LaRoche today for Pitt.

2008-08-06 13:12:08
69.   Bob Timmermann
Cycle alert canceled in St. Petersburg.

Stand down.

2008-08-06 13:14:26
70.   trainwreck
There was a cycle alert?
2008-08-06 13:15:37
71.   cargill06
When Loney grounded into his 2nd double play last night Rick Monday offered up a gem. Saying, something like, "Loney got his pitch 2-0 and swung, this is something these young hitters are going to have to learn to lay off that pitch and saty out of the double play."

I have respect for Monday, but that may have been the most retarded thing I ever heard him say.

2008-08-06 13:16:21
72.   CodyS
Pittsburgh has seen enough of Mike Schmidt Jr. After going 2 for 16 so far, LaRoche cannot get a start over Chris Gomez.
2008-08-06 13:16:45
73.   Bob Timmermann
I calculate a game score of -14 for Brandon Backe today in Chicago.
2008-08-06 13:17:25
74.   LogikReader

I'm trying to go the whole day without saying, writing, or even hearing the dreaded "F-word".

Let's see John Madden try that!

2008-08-06 13:17:26
75.   D4P
Andy "Mike Schmidt Jr." LaRoche is injured.
2008-08-06 13:17:36
76.   silverwidow
72 He has a deep thumb bruise.
2008-08-06 13:20:07
77.   bhsportsguy
67 I thought his column was a bit restrained actually and he does say that Furcal's injury probably plays a role in all this too.

72 If that is the case, than he better hope that someone tries to snag him away from Pittsburgh.

60 I thought so because those Dodger Dogs probably have a lot of stuff in them but vegatable or soy products are not among their ingredients.

2008-08-06 13:21:51
78.   Dodgers49
Good, bad, ugly for Suns' DeJesus

>> While DeJesus raised his batting average to .304, his errors led to two unearned Mobile runs in the sixth inning. DeJesus' season error total is 20 - a number he previously said he didn't want to exceed this year. <<

## LHP Eric DuBose, who appeared in 52 games for the Baltimore Orioles from 2002 to 2006, was assigned to the Suns after the Los Angeles Dodgers purchased his contract from Bridgeport of the independent Atlantic League. To make room for DuBose, RHP Jesus Castillo (strained oblique) was put on the disabled list, retroactive to Saturday. ##

2008-08-06 13:25:54
79.   Greg Brock
77 I would think that dating a vegetarian would make dining situations uncomfortable. What with the silent judging and not being able to go to certain places or make certain meals at home and whatnot.

I'm not opposed to it or anything.

2008-08-06 13:26:03
80.   Alex41592
1-0 Pirates Top 4 Sanchez solo HR
2008-08-06 13:27:33
81.   CodyS
ESPN (Jerry Crasnick) ranks the (9) contenders bullpens. The Dodgers, he puts sixth despite leading with this topic sentence.

"The Dodgers' bullpen ranks second in the majors in strikeouts and OPS against and first in ERA."

Not sure what criteria he uses then, to rank 5 teams ahead of them. Star power, I guess.

2008-08-06 13:27:45
82.   Marty
I thought LaRoche was injured.
2008-08-06 13:29:56
83.   CodyS
75 Ah, you are correct. Andy hurt his thumb by grounding out weakly to end the game. That's normal and not indicative of someone who's injury prone.
2008-08-06 13:32:47
84.   bhsportsguy
81 I think there is concern about Broxton's "tired arm." Also, the stats could be built up against not so great offenses.

But also, the Dodgers just have not really found themselves in a lot of games where they have had high leverage situations, when they win games, they tend to win them by more than 3 runs.

2008-08-06 13:32:56
85.   JoeyP
I think Alex should be a scoreboard operator in his future profession.

He's like the Vin Scully of updating scores on DT.

2008-08-06 13:36:32
86.   Bob Hendley
82 - Speaking of injuries, me thinks that the trainer should examine Weird Game to see if he received any 2nd degree burns from being under JoeyP's magnifying glass yesterday. ;-)
2008-08-06 13:38:46
87.   Alex41592
85 - Funny you should say that as a friend of mine is not the scoreboard operator but a pitchtracker operator at Dodger Stadium. I also came just short of landing an internship for Dodgervision and now I intern at Fox Sports Radio and just landed part time work there.

Any comparison to the great one I'll take anyday so thanks.

2008-08-06 13:39:07
88.   ibleedbloo
How do ads show up on this site? I have an olympic ad on top and the KoreanCupid on the bottom. Do they have something to do with the topic/headline or do comments have anything to do with them?

If comments do effect the ads, it may be fun on an off day or during a rain delay, to see what we can get to show up.

2008-08-06 13:41:29
89.   bhsportsguy
87 So now you get to hang out in Sherman Oaks.
2008-08-06 13:44:20
90.   regfairfield
84 We're also missing Saito and he could be downgrading us because Chan Ho, Wade and Beimel are pitching way over their heads.
2008-08-06 13:45:30
91.   KG16
79 my cousin dates a vegetarian, she does not mind the rest of us eating dead animals. in fact, she'll even cook them for us. she just doesn't eat meat.

this is a strange thing in my family because we generally ask to have a side of steak instead of veggies. but it seems to work for her.

2008-08-06 13:46:10
92.   underdog
90 Is it fair to say Beimel is pitching over his head since he's been one of the most reliable lefty relievers of the last few years, no? Agree about the other two, though I hold out hope Wade will just continue to be solid.
2008-08-06 13:46:18
93.   cargill06
Also, the stats could be built up against not so great offenses.

Grr, this makes me so fresturated, one of my buddies completely dismisses Billingsley's sucsess because he pitches in the NL west, yet he has a 2.31 ERA vs. Non-NL West teams.

2008-08-06 13:46:27
94.   Alex41592
Yes, a city until recently I've lived in since 1992. You leave home and find yourself right back where you started.
2008-08-06 13:47:20
95.   regfairfield
92 Beimel has shown that he's a decently reliable reliever, but he's definitely not two ERA good, his FIP is 3.26 right now.
2008-08-06 13:49:07
96.   Alex41592
1-0 Pirates Top 6 and it's an interesting game thus far.
2008-08-06 13:50:12
97.   JoeyP
Jeff Karstens wow.
2008-08-06 13:54:52
98.   Jon Weisman
Tony Jackson has tonight's lineup:

Kemp, CF
Ethier, RF
Martin, C
Ramirez, LF
Loney, 1B
Blake, 3B
Ozuna, 2B
Berroa, SS
Lowe, P

2008-08-06 13:56:31
99.   trainwreck
Wow, Ethier gets another day.

Just ignore the bottom of the lineup, it may make you weep.

2008-08-06 13:56:41
100.   bhsportsguy
The NBA schedule is out, I will never understand why they do what they do.

The Lakers play the Clippers twice in the first four games of the season and then they don' play them for 2 1/2 months and then again for another 2+ months.

The Celtics have replaced Shaq as the Lakers' Christmas Day opponent as Paul Pierce gets to have Christmas back home for their first meeting in the year.

Shaq comes back to LA for the first time on Decemeber 10th against the Lakers, in February he's back in a little over a week as the Suns play the Clippers and Lakers on the road.

For those thinking about heading to Phoenix for Spring Traiing, the Suns host the Lakers on Sunday March 1st.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-08-06 13:57:07
101.   underdog
98 Cool! Two straight games with you know who benched and you know who starting. And Kent finally gets a rest. Will we have a day free of complaints about the line-up? (I suppose we could carp that martin's remaining in the 3 spot, though I have confidence he'll get it going.)
2008-08-06 13:57:10
102.   bhsportsguy
98 That is your ground ball special.
2008-08-06 13:57:19
103.   JoeyP
Joe's playing the best OF'ers two days in a row.

Thats progress.

I figured Druw's bomb would get him 3-4 starts.

2008-08-06 13:57:40
104.   Alex41592
Kent taking the game off with Lowe on the mound. That sounds like a good idea. Yay for Ethier!
2008-08-06 14:00:00
105.   Doctor
Great line up. 8 runs today.
2008-08-06 14:00:30
106.   Greg Brock
So all it takes is for everybody to mock you, in print, on the tubes, and on television to finally figure it out.

I'm going to assume Ethier is there to stay.

2008-08-06 14:01:40
107.   okdodge
I wasn't part of the game thread, but last night was the first game I got to watch the blue in a long time. Andruw's homer was kinda funny. Not only did Andruw looked almost surprised, but the Card's announcer both kinda went, "huh?" Too bad the comeback fell short. The lineup looks ok, with the exception of Berrzuna. Hopefully Lowe can get some support.
2008-08-06 14:01:51
108.   Nagman
I once dated a vegetarian for a couple years. I became a closet hamburger eater. I'd find any reason to run errands, and take the opportunity to go thru a drive thru.
2008-08-06 14:01:52
109.   still bevens
Better hitter: Berroa or Lowe? You decide!
2008-08-06 14:02:47
110.   unlazy4sports
Speaking of the Olympics, I'd like to ask all of you, if you don't already have a favorite, to root for Taiwan's (Chinese Taipei) Women Softball team. My uncle's the head coach of that team. Here's something to make him more likeable to you guys, in his lifetime, he's been to Dodgers Stadium and cheered on the Dodgers 4 times! So he's pretty much a fellow Dodger fan!
2008-08-06 14:02:51
111.   underdog
Some of the Dodgers have posted great numbers vs. Joel Pinero. Manny is 11 for 26 with 3 HRs. Blake is 6 for 15 with a HR. Too bad Nomar's out, he was 7 for 13.
2008-08-06 14:03:37
112.   Greg Brock
108 This is what I'm talking about.

Love me, love my devotion to eating animals. They are delicious.

2008-08-06 14:06:40
113.   underdog
Jeff Karstens looks like Neville Longbottom. But pitches a lot better. Still interesting now through 6 innings.
2008-08-06 14:06:55
114.   regfairfield
67 Sheehan really should know better than to blame a two run per game difference on one player.
2008-08-06 14:07:36
115.   Alex41592
1-0 Pirates Top 7 and that Karstens is something else.
2008-08-06 14:09:30
116.   Greg Brock
113 Neville was a dab hand at potions.*

*I enjoy talking like British people more than anything in the world.

2008-08-06 14:09:31
117.   regfairfield
I tried going vegetarian for a girl once. It lasted about two weeks and I gained four pounds because my cheese intake shot through the roof.

Lesson: animals taste great and are good for you.

2008-08-06 14:09:50
118.   JoeyP
Randy Johnson's last 27 innings:
1 earned run
2008-08-06 14:12:45
119.   KG16
118 - it's amazing that he's as old as he is, had all the surgery that he's had, and can still dominate the way he does. Here's hoping that in 20 years we are speaking the same way of Billingsly, only, you know, with out the surgeries.
2008-08-06 14:15:04
120.   D4P
The shocking fact is that production of beef, pork and poultry is a bigger part of the climate problem than the cars and trucks we drive, indeed of the whole transportation sector...the meat industry is a giant source of greenhouse gases, of which carbon dioxide is only one, and not the most dangerous one. All those steer feedlots and factory buildings crammed with pigs and chickens produce immense amounts of animal wastes that give off methane. On an equivalent basis to carbon dioxide, methane is twenty-three times more potent as a greenhouse gas. When you add in the production of fertilizer and other aspects of animal farming (including land use changes, feed transport, etc.) livestock farming is responsible for nearly one-fifth of human-induced greenhouse gas emissions, more than the transportation sector, according to a 2006 report by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations.

2008-08-06 14:15:11
121.   underdog
"They [his teammates] were saluting Johnson for what should be a victory." - Sutton

116 Top o' the mornin' to ya guvnor!

2008-08-06 14:18:42
122.   still bevens
118 I felt like a jerk for wishing injury on Johnson this year but felt like I had to do it. A healthy RJ is bad news for us.

Hope he gets 300 wins tho. Seems pretty attainable.

2008-08-06 14:19:42
123.   underdog
Still a very interesting game through 7 innings now.

No matter what happens, this is quite a nice start to his Pirates career, looking at his first two games...

Would be nice if the Pirates scored another run though.

2008-08-06 14:19:42
124.   Alex41592
Top 8 1-0 Pirates. Heartbeats pick it up a notch.
2008-08-06 14:19:42
125.   JoeyP
6 left to get.


2008-08-06 14:21:29
126.   underdog
I wonder if the Yankees are missing Jeff Karstens these days...
2008-08-06 14:22:09
127.   underdog
And Karstens just got his second hit!
2008-08-06 14:22:33
128.   Greg Brock
120 Oh, I get that eating meat is bad. I just don't care.

I do my thing and you do your thing and life goes on. It's like the harm principle, without caring about harming animals. I like to think of it as selective Utilitarianism.

I'm not a good person. I made peace with it.

2008-08-06 14:22:33
129.   Xeifrank
wow, Randy Johnson is pitching a 5-hitter.
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 14:23:49
130.   trainwreck
So we should just get rid of people?

Well it was a good run.

2008-08-06 14:24:15
131.   Alex41592
Insurance run 2-0 Pirates.
2008-08-06 14:24:25
132.   JoeyP
Karstens is doing it all.
He's going to be 26 yrs old.

Is he that highly of a prospect?

He didnt do much at all with the Yankees.

2008-08-06 14:24:33
133.   underdog
2nd run!

Dunno why Melvin insisted on leaving Johnson in there other than hatred of his bullpen. Loyal to the starter.

2008-08-06 14:25:08
134.   Alex41592
The Unit pitched a good game but he's not the story on this day.
2008-08-06 14:25:09
135.   KG16
128 - eating meat is not bad. it is good. if it wasn't for eating beef, cows would be as endangered as buffalo.

mmmmm, buffalo.

2008-08-06 14:25:26
136.   JoeyP
Looks like Melvin stretched Randy an inning too long.

He was over 100 pitches entering the 8th.

2008-08-06 14:25:40
137.   underdog
128 Care for some more Soylent burgers?
2008-08-06 14:27:34
138.   OaklandAs
114 I don't think that's the point that Sheehan is trying to make. His point is just that all the evidence shows the offense is worse when Pierre leads off, and that there is no evidence to show that Pierre is a good leadoff hitter (no matter how often Joe Torre says so).
2008-08-06 14:28:03
139.   KG16
133 - I'd have left Johnson in too. seven innings, scattering seven hits, striking out seven, only giving up two runs. plus, i wouldn't trust the az bullpen either.

in short, he was pitching a good game and kept his team in, no need to take him out until he got into trouble.

2008-08-06 14:28:20
140.   scareduck
112 - so you are a member of People Eating Tasty Animals, too?
2008-08-06 14:29:35
141.   regfairfield
132 Missing Jeff Karstens is like missing D.J. Houlton.
2008-08-06 14:29:37
142.   D4P
It has been much, much easier for me to stop eating meat then I ever thought it would be. I don't miss it at all, and rarely even think about it.
2008-08-06 14:31:13
143.   KG16
huh, mid-week day game in Anaheim. I wish I'd have known, I'd have gone there instead of work.
2008-08-06 14:32:04
144.   regfairfield
138 He might not have started out like that but his conclusion:

Dodgers offense by Leadoff Man
Hitter G R R/G
Furcal 31 169 5.45
Kemp 21 100 4.76
Pierre 58 195 3.36
Other 2 4 2.00

Conclusions? How about three:
* Andre Ethier is better than Juan Pierre.
* Juan Pierre has a case for being the worst leadoff hitter in the game.
* The Dodger offense grinds to a half when Juan Pierre bats leadoff.

Makes it seem like he blames Pierre entirely for their badness when he bats leadoff, completely ignoring that no one but Martin was hitting well during that stretch.

2008-08-06 14:33:34
145.   Greg Brock
142 Why did you stop eating meat, if I might ask?
2008-08-06 14:34:28
146.   Xeifrank
When is the last time that someone has done what Karstens might do, with <= 4 strike outs?
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 14:35:50
147.   bryanf
Love the lineup today. Here's hoping that the Pirates game ends up staying interesting.
2008-08-06 14:36:06
148.   JoeyP
Dbax are having an extreme regression of BABIP today.
2008-08-06 14:37:04
149.   Alex41592
Perfect game is over at 7 2/3 on a double by SCY.
2008-08-06 14:37:15
150.   underdog
Ah well. SCY with a double.

Outstanding job, Karstens. Now just settle down and get the win.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-08-06 14:37:20
151.   Eric Stephen
I don't have pre-1956 numbers, but the lowest since 1956 was El Presidente with 5 K.

Boo. A hit as I type this.

2008-08-06 14:37:45
152.   JoeyP
6-11 GB/FB couldnt hold for all 9 innings.
Short CY with a double.
2008-08-06 14:37:57
153.   Alex41592
But, 2-0 Pirates Top 9.
2008-08-06 14:38:05
154.   Xeifrank
tying run at the plate.
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 14:38:08
155.   regfairfield
146 Not that it matters anymore, but Dennis Martinez's five leads the Retrosheet era.
2008-08-06 14:38:14
156.   cargill06
ok now that it's done...

am i the only one that thinks 123 ,124 , and125 are rule 9 violations?

2008-08-06 14:38:44
157.   D4P
First of all, my wife and I decided to stop together, which I think made it easier.

Our reasons were mostly two-pronged.

1. We both really like animals, and have always felt guilty about eating them.

2. As people who are generally engaged in professions that preach pro-environmental values and such, we generally try to practice what we preach as much as possible/tolerable.

So, as somewhat of a New Year's resolution for 2007, we decided to give quasi-vegetarianism (we eat fish) a try. Like I said: I'm surprised at how easy it has been. I never thought I'd stop eating meat.

2008-08-06 14:38:55
158.   Xeifrank
Do you let Karstens pitch the 9th until the DBacks get a runner or two on? vr, Xei
2008-08-06 14:40:13
159.   Xeifrank
156. Actually, only your post is a rule violation. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 14:40:33
160.   JoeyP
He's only at 92 pitches sure.
Capps is out for the Pirates anyway. Their bullpen blows outside of him.
2008-08-06 14:41:06
161.   Xeifrank
151,155. Thanks. B-R seems to give short lists to queries if you don't have an account with them.
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 14:41:13
162.   OaklandAs
144 I think his point is that there is no way for Torre to spin Pierre as the best option to leadoff. Everyone who reads BP already knows that Ethier is better than Pierre due to things like OBP, SLG, EQA, etc. But those stats don't matter much to a significant percentage of the mainstream media (or MLB personnel). But those who don't care about EQA should care about how many runs the team is scoring, and there too, the Dodgers perform worse with Pierre.
2008-08-06 14:41:26
163.   Bob Timmermann
Karstens is at 92 pitches. And the Pirates bullpen is not all that good.
2008-08-06 14:41:33
164.   UVaDodger
Well, you have to let him bat at this point, right? He is the hottest batter of the whole game, after all. ;)
2008-08-06 14:42:39
165.   wronghanded
157 Grilled teriyaki yellowtail should ease your pain, if you ever get a hankering that is.
2008-08-06 14:43:39
166.   Bob Timmermann
The Pirates announcers say that no one is warming up.
2008-08-06 14:44:26
167.   Bob Timmermann
Grabow is now warming up for the Bucs.
2008-08-06 14:44:51
168.   still bevens
Wow the Pirates need an almost perfect game to pull off a win with that lineup.
2008-08-06 14:46:08
169.   Xeifrank
Lincecum has thrown 117 pitches, with the Giants leading 3-2 in the bottom of the 8th at home. Wonder if he possibly comes out for the 9th inning?
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 14:46:14
170.   regfairfield
162 Then he should have just left it at that instead of concluding with the idea that Juan Pierre torpedos the Dodger offense single handedly.
2008-08-06 14:46:52
171.   Xeifrank
167. Ok, I would atleast think someone would be warming up. Someone needs to get a save.
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 14:49:51
172.   Xeifrank
That insurance run by the Pirates helps out quite a bit. It moves the DBacks B9th inning win expectancy from 18.8 down to 7.5%
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 14:50:07
173.   cargill06
163 8 IP, 4 K's, 0 BB's, and 1 H,... how in the world does that equate to 92 pitches?
2008-08-06 14:50:31
174.   gpellamjr
The Dodgers are on ESPN2 on Monday! I get to see a Dodger game in HD!
2008-08-06 14:50:46
175.   cargill06
Arizona won, I gaurentee it.
2008-08-06 14:52:36
176.   Ken Noe
I see that Tracy Ringolsby has now joined the chorus of writers this week who think the Dodgers might trade JP and part of his salary through waivers. I've only seen speculation up to now, but I confess that it gives me hope.
2008-08-06 14:52:45
177.   underdog
156 Rule 9 = "typing 'no-hitter' or 'perfect game' to describe either in progress" So, clearly, no, they were not.

169 Giants fans will probably complain if he pulls Lincecum and then the pen blows it. They'd complain if he was pulled after throwing 160 pitches.

2008-08-06 14:53:31
178.   Xeifrank
173. The pitch count estimator I use for my simulator is,

4.81SO + 5.14BB + 3.27BB + (3.16*(outs-so))

What does that work out to for Karstens?
vr, Xei

2008-08-06 14:53:46
179.   Alex41592
Tony Clark GIDP 2 away in the 9th.
2008-08-06 14:53:50
180.   underdog
Super-sweet double play started by Karstens. Very nice.
2008-08-06 14:53:54
181.   Bob Timmermann
Tony Clark eases the pain.
2008-08-06 14:54:57
182.   Xeifrank
178. Should read 3.27Hits
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 14:55:04
183.   Eric Stephen
I can see the health benefits of going vegetarian. But meat is so darned tasty it would be hard to give up. One can eat meat and still eat healthy.

But, Weird Al is a vegetarian, so I'm torn on the issue. I'll let my taste buds win this argument.

I would imagine pressure from a girlfriend or potential girlfriend to turn vegetarian would severely weaken my resolve, however.

2008-08-06 14:56:16
184.   Alex41592
Drew is on for Hudson.
2008-08-06 14:56:17
185.   Bob Timmermann
For people who wish to use the word "ironically" incorrectly, I will point out that the last time Arizona was no-hit Chris Young made the last out. And Chris Young broke up this no-hitter.
2008-08-06 14:56:49
186.   cargill06
177 ya but i believe rule 9 was made in the spirit of ignoring it while it's happening for supersticous purposes. clearly, it wasn't being ignored here while happening, maybe we can appeal to a higher court?
2008-08-06 14:57:07
187.   Alex41592
CG SHO for Karstens. 2 back heading into tonight.
2008-08-06 14:57:12
188.   JoeyP
Dbax went 2-24 on balls in play.
2008-08-06 14:57:13
189.   Eric Stephen
I got 86 pitches through 8 using your simulator.
2008-08-06 14:57:14
190.   underdog
They got one more hit, but the CG shutout is intact. Nicely done, Karstens. Thanks, Pirates. Dodgers need to win their game tonight.
2008-08-06 14:57:51
191.   trainwreck
You can't back down. Next thing you know, she will convince you to root for UCLA.
2008-08-06 14:58:01
192.   cargill06
175 you idiot.
2008-08-06 14:58:35
193.   D4P
But meat is so darned tasty

There are plenty of other food items that are equally (if not more) tasty. The bigger challenge (though not an insurmountable one) stems from finding alternative protein sources. But I have generally found legumes, soy, and fish to be more than acceptable substitutes for beef, chicken, and pork.

2008-08-06 14:59:08
194.   bhsportsguy
188 In a game in 1965, the Dodgers were 1 for 21 in balls in play.

And they won the game.

Of course the Cubs were 0 for 27 (0 for 13 balls in play) , so that helps.

2008-08-06 14:59:23
195.   Xeifrank
I got 103.6 by the formula, and an actual of 113.
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 15:00:46
196.   Xeifrank
186. Cargill, this has been discussed quite a bit in the past. The rule doesn't really make sense, as you can type no-no but you can't type no-hitter. It's not that the no-hitter or pefect game needs to be ignored, it's that you can't type those exact words. This is if my memory serves me right, which is always a big question mark. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 15:02:30
197.   Jon Weisman
186 - I sincerely appreciate your concern :)

Rule 9 is subject for the most part to a literal interpretation. There have been some cases where I've enforced it beyond typing those words, but I try to avoid that to keep the troops at peace.

But you are allowed to acknolwedge a no-no in an oblique way, including by using the words "no-no."

2008-08-06 15:03:23
198.   Xeifrank
196. And my memory seems to be correct. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 15:03:35
199.   Jon Weisman
196 - The distinction between no-hitter and no-no does make sense, as one violates the superstition and the other does not.
2008-08-06 15:04:10
200.   trainwreck
Foods like broccoli and spinach have a decent amount of iron and protein. Plus, there are mushrooms.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-08-06 15:04:14
201.   Xeifrank
199. Ok, we all have our opinions on the validity of that. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-06 15:04:14
202.   Eric Stephen
I like fish quite a bit, so I could totally handle that.

I would root for UCLA in most cases, unless they were playing USC or if their win would directly hurt USC. But I'd play it up like I was giving up a lot! :)

2008-08-06 15:04:28
203.   Greg Brock
157 That's cool. And you're probably not all judgy about other people eating meat, either.
2008-08-06 15:07:26
204.   overkill94
So, anyone going to any of the games this weekend in SF? I just found out I'll be up there for business and am hoping to go to at least two of the games. Mini-DT gathering at the phone booth?
2008-08-06 15:08:38
205.   Greg Brock
157 Though I guess it sucks to be a fish.
2008-08-06 15:09:37
206.   D4P
I eat spinach everyday. It's yummy, especially with parmesan, salsa, and olive oil. Throw in some broth and you gotta stew going.

No. Not judgy, though I would encourage people to make at least some effort to buy meat from places who claim to only buy meat from places who claim to treat the animals relatively well.

2008-08-06 15:11:28
207.   trainwreck
I like to eat vegetables, but if you do not, I suggest taking Spirulina. It is a blue-green microalgae that you can get in pill form and it is basically like eating a ton of cruciferous vegetables.
2008-08-06 15:12:36
208.   Greg Brock
206 I would like to know the cognition of various animals. It would probably lower the likelyhood of me eating them.

Are you aware that you exist?
I'm going to eat you, are you cool with that?

And so on.

2008-08-06 15:13:49
209.   bhsportsguy
204 I think underdog is going and KG16 is going to be there for a wedding.
2008-08-06 15:13:59
210.   trainwreck
We can't even treat humans well.
2008-08-06 15:14:04
211.   Jon Weisman
2008-08-06 15:16:35
212.   underdog
204 Yep, a few of us are going Friday, have some seats together but sold 'em out already. But there are still some seats left right near us. We'll be in Lwr Box 103/Row 39! Go to SFGiants/StubHub to see if you can find a ticket near there. And say hi!

I'm sure there are still good seats left for Sat and Sun games too.

2008-08-06 15:16:37
213.   bhsportsguy
208 Does D4P eat tuna or swordfish or does eat just farmed fish that don't eat other fish?
2008-08-06 15:16:41
214.   KG16
204 - i will be in the bay area this weekend, don't know if i'll be able to make a game though.

i'm guessing that since my date is a giants fan (relax guys, she grew up in the bay area), i could probably convince her.

2008-08-06 15:16:44
215.   Xeifrank
I have a feeling that the Vegetarian Chat (as interesting as it is), could easily enter Rule 5 area (well, atleast it would if I chose to reply to a few of the posts).
Go Dodgers! I hope Derek Lowe throws a "no-no". :)
vr, Xei

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