I agree with Xeifrank, but I would never tell him that. Nor would I tell Jon that I disagree with him.

"No-no" should be off limits, but I am not a Philosopher King, and this is not my kingdom.

1. :)
vr, Xei

Oops, was LAT'd - but to overkill:

204 Yep, a few of us are going Friday, have some seats together but sold 'em out already. But there are still some seats left right near us. We'll be in Lwr Box 103/Row 39! Go to SFGiants/StubHub to see if you can find a ticket near there. And say hi!

I'm sure there are still good seats left for Sat and Sun games too.

1 Your kingdom would skip U.S. History from 1812 to the Polk administration.

Regarding the cognition of animals:

I don't think we'll ever know exactly what they think. But I do know this: we know for a fact that at least some of them have feelings and can sense pain, crowding, discomfort, etc.

And given that we know that, many of them are treated in a way that we should be ashamed of. The treaters get away with it because they have money, are generally isolated from public scrutiny, and provide a product that a lot of people demand (and don't want to pay more money for than they already do).

4 My kingdom would be likely be smote by God.

But it would be a fun ride.

1 - You're a historian, or you play one on TV. Do you know the origin of the term "no-no"?

I remember Vin once describing a pitcher in the midst of a no hitter (or perfect game) as "the loneliest man in the world" while sitting in the dug out. no one wants to say anything and jinx it, so they all stay away. so, i for one appreciate the rule

7 I do not. Tell me!

3 Thanks underdog!

I'll have to convince my buddies up there to go with me, so hopefully they're willing to go on Friday. If I do, I'll make sure to stop by and say hi.

5. That seems to be treading awfully deep into rule 5 territory.

definitely not going to be able to make the friday game. if i go, it'd be saturday.

So if you can you say "no-no", then can you say something of the likes, "he has yet to give up a hit.", "nobody has gotten a hit off of [Pitcher]"?? To me, the jinxing comes from making any mention of the no-hitter/perfect game in any matter or form. You shouldn't be able to word-smith around it. Is word-smith even a word(s)?
vr, Xei

just out of curiosity, does anyone do that fake-bunt-pull-back-slap-hit that Hershiser use to do so well? use to love watching him drop one behind the third baseman.

11. Before I got Lat'd in the previous thread, I made the same comment about the Veg chat.
vr, Xei

D4P,

I appreciate your thoughts on this, and after seeing King of Corn, I am actively seeking meat that is raised more humanely.

This game cannot come soon enough.

Does D4P eat tuna or swordfish or does eat just farmed fish that don't eat other fish?

I mostly only eat wild Alaskan salmon and farmed tilapia, though there was a news story the other day about how tilapia might be bad for you. Apparently, it has excessive Omega-6 fatty acids. But it wasn't clear to me if you shouldn't eat any tilapia, or just not "a lot" of it.

13 that's what i am saying. i completely agree with you, for me to avoid jinxing it you need to carry on with normal behavior as if nothing is happening.

I get the impression that Rule 9 is fairly expansive, since I once had a post deleted for saying something like "the first 9 batters have made outs."

I expected this to be some story like:

"So I'm in Seoul, and Greg Cadaret has a no-hitter going when Brook Jacoby steps up to the plate to lead of the 7th. I turn to Jeff Zucker, who just got me my coffee, and say, 'You know what would make a good movie? Something about the Indians finally winning a pennant. By the way, next time cream and two sugars. You'll never make it in show business, kid.'

"All of a sudden, Wally Matthews walks by and says, 'has Cadaret ever pitched a no-hitter?'. At that precise moment, Jacoby grounds a ball that barely gets through Velarde and Espinoza on the left side, ending the no-hitter.

"From that day on, I vowed never to allow the words "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to be spoken in my presence."

http://tinyurl.com/rule9origin

Worrying about what I eat is probably something I should do.

It does, however, sound like a lot of work.

16
Google tells me that the title is actually "King Corn". I had never heard of it, but maybe I'll check it out. I'm one of those people who has lived most of my life in ignorant bliss of how the world actually runs, but when I learn little things here and there, the knowledge can really have a powerful effect on how I live thenceforth.

14 That play is called the Butcher Boy, although I have no idea why. We've seen it a couple of times this year. I think Eric Stults did it once. But Hershiser was the best I've ever seen at it.

9 - It's a word-construct specifically designed to allow people to talk about no-hitters without jinxing them. And now you know!

13 - Well, yes, that's the problem and that's the kind of thing that violates the spirit of Rule 9. I think if you're looking for some perfectly rigid logic here, you will be disappointed. All I can say is that the phrases you describe are not jinx-proof.

8
I think you do know that Vin does not believe in the power of the jinx. Or perhaps he knows he doesn't have the jinx power.

The man has seen plenty of no-hitters in his lifetime.

27 The "find an attractive co worker who will call you fat if you attempt to eat something remotely unhealthy" diet is really effective.

18
How much is too excessive? I take fish oil pills all the time. I already gave up on vitamins, because of all the stuff I read about them.

22
The old saying is "Ignorance is bliss."

I like to add "Awareness is burden."

It's infinitely easier not to care about the impacts of your lifestyle on the rest of the world, especially if you are of the mindset that (1) you have a right to do whatever you want, and (2) you should absolutely, positively exercise that right.

26 I'd be willing to wager a large amount of money that Vin Scully has personally attended more no-hitters than any human being in history. And he has probably said the word "no-hitter" during most of them.

but when I learn little things here and there, the knowledge can really have a powerful effect on how I live thenceforth.

We are very different people.

Isn't our shear existence a burden on the world?

32 sounds like something Manny Ramirez would say. Or Samson.

28
The story didn't say how much is too excessive, which was annoying. So I don't know the answer. I too take fish oil pills, but they apparently only contain Omega-3s.

I will say I'm absolutely open to a more expansive use of Rule 9, but I thought people would rebel. However, I'm definitely in favor of more precautions.

32 Paradoxically, aren't we part of the world, and therefore limits on our existence would be burdens on us, and therefore on the world?

I think the Baseball Toaster needs a jinx filter. Perhaps Ken can implement it in his next software release. That and a filter on the guy who always posts the win expectancies every inning! :)
vr, Xei

7 Well here's one version but I doubt that he came up with the term himself.

http://weekendamerica.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/03/28/pitch/

34
I take ones that have 3, 6, and 9.

I'm thinking a young death is unavoidable at this point.

Isn't our shear existence a burden on the world?

Pretty much. Maybe we do some things that have a positive impact, but I'm pretty certain that our overall impact is (hugely) negative. It doesn't have to follow, however, that we should all kill ourselves.

It is all non-sense, but this is Jon's blog, so I am happy to follow Jon's rules without regard to a substantive analysis of their merits.

23 http://www.greencine.com/webCatalog?id=246341

Nice little doc, the two guys are entertaining even though it can be a little disturbing. That and reading Fast Food Nation will definitely make one think about one's dietary habits.

26 - of course, i just liked the phrase. it's so fitting when you see 30 guys in a dug out and none of them will even look at the starting pitcher.

30 My count is 20 though only 1 (the Morris no-hitter) is the only one where the Dodgers were not a participant in.

The other rules are so practical and necessary, that I'm glad there's at least one whimsical rule that appears not to make sense on its face. It has a certain charm.

35 the golden rule, treat others no hitters the way you'd want your no hitters to be treated.

44 His bio says 18, so I am guessing he missed the Ryan no-hitter against the Dodgers and maybe the Browning perfect game.

47 The Browning perfect game is one of them because he only lists 3 perfect games, Larsen, Koufax and Dennis Martinez.

44 Vin's bio in the Dodgers media guide says he's called 18 no-hitters and three perfect games, although it's unclear whether they're counting the perfect games among the no-hitters total.

Of course, this doesn't count any no-hitters he may or may not have seen at the Polo Grounds as a kid. In any case, I find it hard to imagine that anyone else has been present at anywhere near the number of no-hitters he has.

41, 45 - Much appreciated.

The Nolan Ryan no-hitter against the Dodgers was an NBC game. Kubek and Garagiola called the game. After the game was over, KABC came back from its break before NBC so Ross Porter got to ask Ryan questions before Kubek did.

Coming late to the vegetarian discussion...

I've been a veggie all my life (my parents switched over a couple years before I was born), although I do eat dairy. My wife, however, is not vegetarian: our solution (something that never was really discussed, just sort of came to be) is that if we cook at home, it's a vegetarian meal. If we order takeout, delivery, or eat out, all bets are off.

I'm not bothered at all by people who eat meat in front of me, although in the past when it's been cooked at home I find the smell somewhat bothersome (nothing worth making a big deal about though).

I'm not particularly a fan of Rule 9, but I completely agree with 41 and 45 , so DL abides.

If "no-no" is ok, then how about some other partial formulation, like "zero-hitter"?

Having a memory like Bob will be one of the next steps in human evolution.

Jon, if you can demonstrate a reproducible, testable jinx, there's a Nobel Prize in it for you!

I was an incredibly superstitious child, but my OCD tendencies eventually led me to choose between either complete neurotic paralysis, or to embrace Occam's razor and reject any premise which couldn't be falsified. I can accept that not everyone (eg Jon) shares my standards for what constitutes knowledge though, and I try and bite my tongue for Rule 9.
Scratch a hard-core scientist, you'll find an OCD weirdo underneath.

Ken Gurnick, like most sports writers, has never been particularly good. Today/late last night he wrote the following:

"Batting behind Ramirez on Tuesday night was James Loney, who followed two Ramirez singles with double-play grounders. Loney is 3-for-9 behind Ramirez, and Jeff Kent is 1-for-8. Torre has used Loney fifth against right-handed starters and Kent against lefties."

Ok, forgetting for a second the stupidity of referencing 0 or 8 plate appearances as if they meant anything, the comment about Loney has merit (well, it accidentally stumbles upon something true).

My biggest issue with Loney as a 1B is that he has no hope of ever being a power-hitter so long as he continues his current swing. As most of you well know, I don't have opinions about actual mechanics from view the guy or seeing some theoretical "hole." I do, however, draw conclusions based on results. Loney, as it is generally know, is a LD hitter. In his 941 MLB PAs, Loney has put up a LD% of 19.8%. The problem is that when he is not hitting LDs, he is mostly hitting GBs. Over that same time, he has had a GB% of 44.3%. The great power hitters rarely, if ever (I am sure someone could find an example) over 40%, most being closer to 35%.

Even high BA (almost alway LD hitting at or over 20%) power hitters keep their GB% low.

Loney, if he doesn't learn to start lofting some hits, will have a ceiling very similar (as a recent DT poster alluded to) Lyle Overbay. The difference right now being that at least Overbay is walking some.

The Browning perfect game was a Friday night, September 16, 1988. Its possible Vin was out of town to do the NBC game the following day.

56
Don't forget that Lyle Overbay has reached on catcher's interference THREE TIMES this year.

58 Is that baseball's version of drawing a foul with a creative flop?

Does anyone have tonight's lineup? Where do you get it from, anyway? When does it usually come out?

Here's tonight's lineup in St. Louis:

Kemp, CF
Ethier, RF
Martin, C
Manny, LF
Loney, 1B
Blake, 3B
Ozuna, 2B
Berroa, SS
Lowe, P

60. Possible sources:
Inside The Dodgers
Diamond Leung (Press Enterprise blog)

All on Jon's sidebar. vr, Xei

yay. new member.

63
Welcome, sit down, have a burger.

Or not.

60
The 3 places besides Dodger Thoughts you are likely to find the lineup are all located on the right-hand sidebar under "Dodger Sites":

1) Inside the Dodgers (Dodgers.com) - a blog run by Josh Rawitch, VP of Communications for the club
2) Inside the Dodgers (Tony Jackson) - beat writer for the LA Daily News
3) Press-Enterprise Dodger blog - Diamond Leung is the beat writer for the P-E.

60
Oh yeah, in most cases the lineup is released within 2-3 hours of game time.

I find absolutely nothing sacred about a no-no or a perfecto if it is being thrown against my team, but I respect Jon's rule (and live in fear of the reverse jinx).

how do you get that quote/link of another comment?

New members don't have to talk about the voluntary extinction of the human race.

Oakland's young rookie pitcher Gio Gonzalez is taking to the mound shortly.
vr, Xei

5 - I appreciate your comment. Well said.

From Tony Jackson:

``I liked what I saw last night with Andre, and that's why he is in there again tonight,'' Torre said. ``He had some good at-bats, and when the game sped up, he stayed right there. He has come a long way for me over the last month or three weeks.''

http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/

57 Any no-hitter involving the Dodgers between 1950-1976, Vin called that game.

From 1977-1989, Vin had other obligations that took him away from calling games, primarily on the weekend.

At some point, Vin just called road games that were televised and then he stopped going back beyond Denver altogther.

Now, he calls only games that are televised on the Dodger TV Network, meaning that there are games at Dodger Stadium that he doesn't call if they are on Fox or ESPN.

70
He already took to it, actually. Got out first two batters and then Rios hit a double.

68
Use brackets, like [ ], to surround the post number you want to reference.

So [ 68 ] becomes 68 .

72
Let me make up some non-sense to make it seem like I am not just picking names out of a hat.

76. Or perhaps, Jim Tracy left his magic 8 ball in his desk when he left. Grady never got around to throwing it away and now Torre is using it to pick starters.
vr, Xei

26 Vin is first and foremost there to inform the viewers (listeners) what's going on, so he is going to let you know if a no-hitter or el perfecto is being thrown. Sometimes he does it subtly, sometimes not. It was funny last week when John Lackey was throwing a no hitter for the Angels through eight innings. The cameras kept showing him standing in the dugout by himself waiting for the ninth inning to start. No one ever came into view of the camera the whole half inning. Ryan threw his no hitter against the Dodgers on my 27th birthday. My roommate had to stop be from throwing a beer bottle through the television. That no hitter broke Koufax's career no hit mark and I was angry. I always agreed with Buzzie Bavasi's assessment of Ryan. "Give me two 8-7 pitchers."

And now Gio gives up a three-run bomb to Barajas.

68 Tools of the trade.

To link to another post in the thread, use [] around the number.

To underline, use _ between the word or phrase you want to underline.

To bold, use * around the intended passage.

Generally, Jon's would rather you link to a site by either pasting the link or use tinyurl.com to shorten it rather than paste the whole quote in, though short excerpts are okay.

Also, if you are going to post something from a subscribser site, Baseball Prospectus, Baseball America, ESPN Insider, etc., Jon would prefer just a small quote and certainly not the entire piece.

69 I am confused, the wikipedia entry on Polk said he was a big fan of Jacksonian democracy, though I guess both being from Tennessee may be part of it.

Thanks for the tips. I'm new to posting comments myself.

81
Polk was called "Young Hickory" because he idolized Jackson so much.

I'm surprised that Andruw isn't starting since he hit the homer last night.

I thought Torre would see that as a sign of things to come.

Also surprised that Ethier starts again.

I wonder if Pierre is being punished for complaining despite the fact that he is the defacto starter.

81 Polk was Jackson's protege, hand picked by Jackson when Van Buren (who was running again) agreed not to annex Texas in a secret deal with Henry Clay, both of whom were running to succeed John Tyler.

Jackson's last great act was crushing Van Buren's shot to get back in the White House.

Tyler, BTW, had been expelled from his own party while president.

The Whigs had some issues.

85 Politics was a lot more fun 160 odd years ago.

86
Like Henry Clay did to Tyler, I am going to formally read Greg Brock out of the Whig Party.

There will be a ceremony and everything.

Cue They Might Be Giants, who told me that Polk was called "Napoleon of the Stump," which is one of the great nicknames of all time.

87 That was not a comment to inspire any breakage of Rule 5.

87 And they dueled!

I miss dueling.

The Cardinals called up Chris Perez and now are going with "closer by committee."

There will be regular meetings.

85 86 He has also been Jackson's floor leader in the House and a reliable vote even after many Tennessee Democrats started drifting to the Whigs. Tyler's ties to Calhoun and the Nullifiers always made him a rather iffy Whig anyway, but vetoing all of Clay's economic legislation didn't help.

Personally, I think that the most popular ways around Rule 9 -- "interesting" for no-hitters and the artejohnsonesque "very interesting" for perfect games -- are self-explanatory, easy to remember, and accurate. They're right up there in the pantheon of DT's additions to the baseball vernacular.

Gammons is on Baseball Tonight questioning how much money McCourt has.

Wow, Peter Gammons still hates Manny.

In 1844, the Democrats were split
The three nominees for the presidential candidate
Were Martin Van Buren, a former
president and an abolitionist
James Buchanan, a moderate
Lewis Cass, a general and expansionist
From Nashville came a dark horse riding up
He was James K. Polk, Napoleon of the Stump

Austere, severe, he held few people dear
His oratory filled his foes with fear
The factions soon agreed
He's just the man we need
To bring about victory
Fulfill our manifest destiny
And annex the land the Mexicans command
And when the votes were cast the winner was
Mister James K. Polk, Napoleon of the Stump

In four short years he met his every goal
He seized the whole southwest from Mexico
Made sure the tarriffs fell
And made the English sell the Oregon territory
He built an independent treasury
Having done all this he sought no second term
But precious few have mourned the passing of
Mister James K. Polk, our eleventh president
Young Hickory, Napoleon of the Stump

Gammons said we had a waiver deal in place for Maddux, but then we demanded that the Padres pay his salary and refused to give the Padres a better prospect in return.

[92} They need to call Randy Flores back from Triple AAA, the all-time USC career leader in wins. I went to high school with his parents.

My dissertation advisor at Illinois, Bob Johannsen, was writing what surely would have been the definitive biography of Polk when illness intervened a few years ago. I still hope to see it finished someday.

On a different note, I see the Padres have an unidentified taker for Giles.

Eric Young is the worst analyst ever. What the heck was ESPN hiring him for Baseball Tonight?

98
I'm OK with that, actually. No need to get Maddux, except maybe as a better extra inning option. :)

97 Great, now do I still need to read that book GB keeps telling me about?

99.
I went to that high school!

I remember intentionally uttering "no-hitter" at the game in 2005 when Pedro took one to the eighth, then propmptly lost 2-1 (to Penny I think). My pal I was with is a huge Mets fan, and we got into an arguement about how I thought it was OK to say it if it was to jinx an opposing teams pitcher. After reflecting on all your posts I realize he was right...Sorry B (better late than never)!

98 That sounds like par for the course. After Manny and Blake, McCourt probably wonders why he should ever have to pay for any of his own players.

54-40 or fight!

I am going to be looking out for Xeifrank on tonight's episode of Hard Knocks.

I think Sutton is rubbing off on the DBax players.
The Diamondbacks grudgingly gave the pitcher credit. Young called it "a very weird" near no-hitter.

"We had a lot of deep flyouts," he said. "I mean, we were on him. But it was his day. That's the only way I can explain it. He definitely gave us some pitches to hit."

This will be the game chat thread.

98
Re: Why McCourt may be reluctant to spend more this season ...
$14,000,000.00 - Jones
$13,000,000.00 - Furcal
$12,000,000.00 - Schmidt
$9,500,000.00 - Penny
$8,500,000.00 - Garciaparra
$7,000,000.00 - Loaiza
$2,000,000.00 - Saito
$1,125,000.00 - Proctor
$1,000,000.00 - Tomko
$875,000.00 - Bennett
$600,000.00 - Sweeney

How much is enough???

97 "This song is brought to you by Buster Posey and Angel Villalona."

108. Well, since I don't watch that TV show (I'm assuming it's a TV show reference of some kind), the meaning of that comment escapes me. All the anti-meat eating and dead president chat has me really looking forward to the start of the game.
Go Dodgers!
vr, Xei

113
Documentary on the Cowboys training camp.

Argh. Another night with the Cardinals announcers. Ah well.

I hope this is a quick game and preferably a quick Dodger victory, as I have an inconveniently scheduled 8:30 soccer game tonight.

Hope 1-6 is productive for the Dodgers tonight, too. Though I predict a key base hit for Ozuna before it's all over.

They moved the centerfield camera to where it should be.

In the comments at Tony Jackson's blog, someone referred to the BP article today about the Dodgers' outfield and Tony asked if the reader could send him the article because it was behind the pay wall. I would have assumed that the beat writers would have subscriptions to BP and BA at least. Or the newsroom would have them.

It really does continually astound me how homer-ish many other announcers are, when used to Vin Scully. Just in how they openly root for and hope for good things from their team.

Curse you, ESPN. I'm assuming its broadcast is why Prime Ticket doesn't have this game on out here.

Say whay you will about Joe Torre, but Tony LaRussa has chosen to play his newly acquired no-hit middle infielder in left field.

114.
More 'reality tv' show than documentary...yet I digress..

101

I can't remember the last ESPN analyst that I thought much of....

Dave Campbell I enjoy, actually.

114. I never made it to the training camp. They came to my workplace though, and there were some TV crews there, but I doubt that there was anything interesting enough going on to put on TV. There was a guy carrying around a giant plastic trash can from player signing table to table for autographing. That was the only memorable thing.
Game is underway now!
vr, Xei

We're making Joel Pinero the next Joel Pinero.

Steiner wasn't kidding about Piniero "struggling"

ERA hovering right around 9.00 all month long.

Not an exciting start. Pineiro is usually good in the first innnig.

118 Since Tony Jackson writes for BA, he probably can access their stuff. But BP is not mainstream enough yet to be a must-have, particularly for beat writers whose job description consists of source-based reporting rather than analysis.

pathetic, russell needs to stop looking at hittable pitches.

122
It's better than "reality tv," so I did not want to call it that.

128 That makes sense. I thought BP was getting to be pretty mainstream but not yet I suppose.

strike 3

was pujols point to the sky really necessary

Yeah I don't blame Lowe and Martin for wondering where that ball before the hit was. Looked right down the middle.

Hm, even with Kent not in there they're getting groundball singles. That was dumb throwing to 3rd.

Argh.

was matt kemp's throw to 3rd necessary?

Pineiro has been hurt by the long ball more than anything that last 30 days. He hasn't struck too many people out either, but his control has been decent and he has a fairly unlucky BABIP during the last month.
vr, Xei

133 God willed that single and bad throw.

C'mon Russ, sloppy!

129 - Last night in the 10th he swung at unhittable pitches, so there's that.

with Adam Kennedy's swing I figured (guessing really) that Kennedy had o.k. numbers against D-Lowe & he does:

overall - 379/455/517 - OPS 972

133 I'm still waiting for someone to point to the sky after striking out, or getting thrown out.

seems like manny always leads off the 2nd

well, that could have been much worse

Ha! Russell Martin Gold Glove griping begins in the bottom of the first, just as it did last night.

D-Lowe should be o.k. plus we're facing Piniero for crying out loud.

Well, Lowe often seems to struggle in the first and then settle down, and Pineiro is often good in the first and then...

So this is true to form.

143 I know, that was hilarious. "Martin won a Gold Glove last year based on his bat." {gripe gripe gripe}

I'm getting pretty sick of these commentators crying over Russ.

130.
Not that 'reality tv' should have a negative connotation or anything..
I did enjoy the Kansas City Chiefs Hardknocks though so I'll probably check out the 'Boys too..

I don't see Molina all the time but I would think his defensive skills ARE probably a little better than Russell Martin's but I feel Russell's OVERALL game is WAY more advanced than Molina but that's just my opinion.

Manny is on FIRE.

MANNY!

139. Anyone else think that Kennedy has a huge uppercut on his swing? I say this, because I read that fly ball hitters (players who tend to have atleast a slight uppercut tendancy) fair better against pitchers who tend to induce more ground balls (sinker ball pitchers).
Kennedy v Lowe.
vr, Xei

Manny is just flat out on a tare you guys!!

yaaaay Manny!

Dude can hit a little bit.

This long-haired freak is good.

MAN-RAM!

As I was saying...

:-)

His numbers vs. Pineiro are pretty ridiculous.

Just Manny being Babe

"In play, runs scored" when there is no one on base is kind of cool.

Small sample size but what is his OPS as a Dodger?

Manny could be the next Marlon Anderson.

After 4 games, the "LA" on Manny's helmet is now completely covered over.

stop hitting it at izturis

Long ball bites Pineiro again.
vr, Xei

152 - I've not seen much of Kennedy, but that would make sense. swinging up at a pitch coming down has a better chance of making good contact, i would think.

Manny Ramirez is better than Andy LaRoche.

Beautiful hitting by Casey.

Btw, what is the story with his helmet? Did he take a new Dodger helmet and set it on fire or something? So it could look like his old BoSox helmet?

what about the name "Event Horizon" for Blake, being that he's right before the black hole?

166. Yes, and the inverse was supposedly true to. Ground ball hitter improves vs fly ball pitcher.
vr, Xei

167 Duh.

wow, I thought he popped that up.

167 Has anyone argued otherwise?

Both the A's and Rangers are about to score a bunch of runs.
vr, Xei

170 Eh?

170
I liked the violence in that movie.

The more former Dodgers prospects fail, the better the Dodgers organization wins on trades.

170 Heh. Nice.

I still like Zoot the muppet though. Or Pete Puma. But that's just me.

167

But what about our future? OUR FUTURE!

Mannyville - Best Right Hand Bat playing now?

175
So much for the A's.

And people found the Dodgers offense painful to watch.

170. Sounds good to me if he's always hitting before the black hole. vr, Xei

104 Class of 72. How about you?

That was not the key base hit I'd predicted for Ozuna. It'll come, chil'n, it'll come.

182. Yeah, that was pretty ugly.
vr, Xei

174

It's hard to tell sometimes.

167

that's true... but we only have Manny Ramirez for a few months.

161 Manny's current Dodger OPS is 1.920. That's one good-looking small sample.

Berroa being Ozuna.

angel providing the O!!!!

I'm surprised Berroa knew the way to thirdbase, Did he ask for directions on the way there?

170 - that was some high quality gore

The dynamic duo produces!

Berrora! I just kept telling myself just extend the inning. Yeah that's a great way to extend the inning.

187 The argument is that six years of LaRoche is more valuable than two months of Manny.

What are the odds of Manny finishing the season with the team lead in home runs?

Nice one, Grampa Snipes!

Okay, maybe I meant Berroa with the key base hit. I get them both mixed up.

]193] was meant for 177

That was amusing.

Berroa has now accomplished his one good thing per week allowed.

Nice inning guys.

Props to the Snipes family.

Berroa got one of those gappers when BH, Bob, Greg & me were there.

Anyone have any ideas why Piniero never panned out in Seattle? I thought in that huge park he'd continue to rise, but looks like he fizzled out.

The Dominican contingent coming through for the Bums tonight.

I bet the Cardinals are glad they kept Joel Piniero instead of Anthony Reyes.

204 Didn't he keep getting hurt?

Berroa and Ramirez are tight. Manny shows the way.

Make Manny the Batting Coach

Make Manny the Manager

Manny

196 You think he'll get any real time with the 'Bucs though?

196.
Apples = Oranges ?

209 It would be very stupid of them to trade their best player for a guy that they wouldn't give a real chance to.

196

There are a lot of contingencies embedded in that argument.

Man, the Rangers are about to turn all Colorado Rockies circa 2007 on the AL. They play in a pathetic division. The Twins will fold and the Sox/Yanks will cancel each other out. AL playoffs - Angels v White Sox and Rays v Rangers. White Sox to the WS over the Rangers.

212 I agree, just like there's lots of them in the argument that two months of Manny is worth it.

Collision at home plate in Arlington. Both David Murphy and Ivan Rodriguez are down.

Yeah, Ethier has come a long way in the last month or six weeks. I particularly like that remark.

212 So are you here just to rehash an old argument or just make generic, obvious statements?

215 - Murphy is shaken up but is back on his feet. Pudge is slow to his feet.

217.
Yes.

Ugly home plate collision in Texas. Much nicer play at the plate in St. Louis.

Oh, you want Arguments! That's in 1-B next door. This is "Abuse."

HAHAHAHA! out by a mile!

Lopez being Kemp.

215
"We have a piper down! I repeat, we have a piper down. Don't worry, he's just pissed."

Two out plays at the plate on infield hits rock!

Thanks!

218. Another injured C for the Yanks?
vr, Xei

And that's a break.

looks like russell martin dips tobacco. i never noticed that.

What on Earth was Lopez doing there? Well, anyway, thanks! Whew.

217

Is this really an old argument? The trade just took place last week.

Where is silly walks?

Bison power!

Pudge is out of the game for the Yanks.

Crazy little thing called glove.

Bison bloop!

Nice job Andre.

Kemp being Berroa. Either being Productive Out.

Lyons is wrong in his interpretation of the rule, right? That's a ground-rule double all the way.

Russell Martin being Juan Pierre. WHAT THE HECK MARTIN.

Russel is so pressing.

I keep seeing the ABs where Martin fails miserably in this situation.

what is russels problem up there

230 It has certainly been discussed and argued over in depth. And no one disagreed that Manny is better than LaRoche.

Martin chill out man. Relax and play baseball.

Buzzard's luck.

Rabble rabble rabble... Russell Martin... rabble rabble rabble

Since Russell does not seem to be adapting to the pre-Manny batting order spot very well, I think Blake should be the new choice. He doesn't seem like the same hitter up there lately.

Dang, what the heck did Manny do to his helmet?

swap Russell and Blake next game..

248

He keeps touching it with pine-tarred gloves.

How bad of a stretch would Manny have to go through before he gets the Russell Martin treatment?

Thanks again, Tony.

Manny is insane.

Wow. I see a God and his name is Man-Ram.

Manny being Josh Hamilton.

great AB Manny!!!!

Manny's being awesome. Boston gave up on this?!!?!

251 - I don't know, but I'm almost bent in half laughing at the idea of Manny catching.

Cardinals = stupid.

Kemp hit that so hard it crashed my computer. I came back just in time to see the RBI Machine strike again.

257
Manny did basically pull a Vince Carter.

that Manny guy really blows

Manny Ramirez is very good at a hitting a baseball.

Nice situational hitting by Ramirez there. Swinging easily at ball 4 and placing it in for a hit with runner on third two out.

259

True that.

OK, I'd like to challenge a certain columnist:

My nine Manny Ramirezezes

vs.

Your nine Blake DeWitts or Juan Pierres, your choice. Mix and match if you'd like.

tommorow is a good day to give russ a day off, hes pressing, its a day game after a night game, travel day, get ready for the giants.

Terrible pitch by Lowe. Pujols eats those for breakfast.

266 - Ramirez wins the Ring in a Box contest too!

I kind of feel guilty for finding it humorous the way Pujols runs the bases.

I always hope that Dodger batters get a hit, but with Manny, I just wait for it. I am so drinking the kool-ade right now. Meanwhile, this St. Louis crew needs to get over Russell's gold glove. Let it go guys. let it go.

259 - in what dimension?

Those stupid Cardinals won a title a couple years back, which is more than the Dodgers have done lately.

264
Swinging easily at ball 4

That pitch looked to be in about the same location as the 2-0 pitch, which was called a strike despite being well off the plate.

Piece of crap hit.

267 - Yep, Russ definitely needs 2 days off.

This looks like the same Martin at the very beginning of the season..I think he will adjust here very soon..

272

I think he was referring to pitching to Manny in that situation. If so, I agree.

272 In the dimension of pitching to Manny with a runner in scoring position, a base open, and two outs...but only in that dimension

Wow all I can get is St. Lou announcers, and I'm already gagging form their homey slant. I didn't know this stop was so bad.

Can we please close out this inning sometime soon?

The Cardinals always seem to give us a hard time, hopefully we can score a few more runs.

261 Pulling a Vince Carter would be Manny suddenly only hitting small dinkers that doesn't leave the infield. And then pulling up lame every single game by the 5th inning.

cheap hit by ludwig

Martin is still a very very good player, but I don't care for the combination of declining to sign a long term deal and then playing worse baseball. It's a red flag for sure. I'm wondering if he got ahead of himself a little, in his head.

C'mon Lowe, wake up!

279 - Yeah, I finally muted them last inning. Couldn't take it anymore.

Must. Limit. Damage.

Finally, finally caught up after my Vegas trip. (Our wedding day was a deadline deal too, so I tend to be out of town around that time of year.) When I saw the news of the Manny trade scroll across a casino TV my first thought was, "will the Toaster survive?" I see that it did.

lowe looks like hes just chucking the ball, nothing behind it.

Lowe being Pinero.

I hate when Lowe does this, or when any pitcher does this.

Lowe folds pretty easily at times.

That Molina hit was put on a tee for him man... sigh.

In play, run(s).

Derek Lowe is teh suck, at least today.

2 outs and nobody on, clutch up and make a pitch.

So much for that quick game i was hoping for.

Something tells me Lowe stayed out past his bedtime last night.

The "Lowe sucking vs. the Cardinals" curse lives!

Time for Manny to knock in 5 more runs so that we can win the slugfest.

well... brand new ball game, let's get 'em boys!

287 - Our wedding day was a deadline deal too

Was there a groomsman to be named later in the deal?

Oh well, at least the bullpens are well rested. :-/

287
Welcome back, Dave! Did you place any bets on the Dodgers to win it all? :)

BLAKE HUSTLE.

I was on board with Blake batting third before that hit. But, now I feel very confident saying Blake should bat third.

FSN Midwest down to one camera. Semi-old timey coverage!

Casey Blake was not negatively affected.

I am OK with the Casey Blake acquisition.

Did anybody here put $ on the Dodgers to win it all in March? :)

301 No, but I did wonder if I should have and how much the changed the odds after the trade. I never did look though.

299 No, but there was a lot of dickering over the exact ring bearer prospects to include.

Weird, due to technical difficulties the Cards' broadcast is down to one field level camera. It's almost kind of cool. Just for a few minutes. Then it will be annoying.

304

Yeah, this angle isn't working for me.

just get the damn bunt down c'mon

He actually did try to pull back.

Can the black hole stike again? Two productive outs is all it will take - these guys do hit a lot of weak grounders to the right side.

I missed the replay. Did it look like Ozuna offered at that HBP/strike?

It seems that when Lowe tries NOT to throw hard is when the sinker really starts working. I'm assuming he's pressing knowing he record facing the Cards..

That was not the world's greatest bunt attempt. (The first one was better.)

306 Dunno, but you may have heard that someone here put some $$ down on the Rays.

313 - Sort of. :-)

typical dodgers, runner on 2nd nobody out and he doesnt move.

How could we have Osuna, Berroa, and the Pitcher coming up in a row? Is it planning?

307 - ah. What did you have to give up to get your wife? Any good prospects? Or was this a challenge trade?

Thats more like the Berroa and Ozuna that we know. And i hate the Cardinals. Absolutely nothing goes right when we play them.

awful.

Instead the Black Hole lives down to its name. Sad.

Bench dwelling utility infielders ought to at least be proficient bunters.

dagnabit

That inning receives the Official Humma Kavula Seal of Annoying.

Remember, if it's not Kavula, it's not Annoying.

321 It does feel that way doesn't it? Cursed. Though we are tied and have scored 3 runs so far, so it's not like this game is completely fruitless.

if your name is pablo ozuna u need to be able to get a bunt down.

320 I had to agree to a very long term contract with no incentive clauses, no option years, and absolutely no opt-outs.

329
I am guessing a no-trade clause too.

327 One of the only two times I called the action just before the pitch was the time Odalis served up the game-winning homer to Pujols. When was that... 2004? 2005?

The other time was last year. I successfully predicted in a particular game, on a particular pitch, that Pierre -- with a runner on first and nobody out -- would try to bunt for a hit, get thrown out, and be happy with his sacrifice. I was correct and I hated it.

and the Cardinals can do absolutely no wrong.

unbelievable, get lowe out of there.

314 A very experienced veteran ought to be able to handle that; he's not some wet behind the ears kid like Billingsley.

Nice pick by Ozuna but he should have flipped it to Berroa so Berroa could have made the throw.

"high fly ball left center and deep"?

Maybe it's good they didn't use Kuo yesterday. Gonna need him today.

Somehow I don't think Loney-Ozuna-Berroa-Blake is Lowe's dream infield.

Unproductive out. Not a big shock that Manny has an arm though.

Lowe's WHIP for the game > 3

Nice throw by Manny. No laziness on that one!

This is carp.

And Adam Kennedy turns into all-wrld against us.

Oh boy. Pujols bases loaded. Hang on tight.

I am not going to predict the action here, other than to say that I fear for the immediate future of this game.

Well wonderful.

this does not bode well for anything good...

This is funny. Bases loaded with one out and Pujols and Ludwick coming up.

::::shiver:::

Well this feels like a high leverage situation.

Great. Just who you want up with the bases loaded.

Man, they've had quite a few seeing eye base hits too, to be fair.

Good thing sports are essentially pointless, otherwise I'd want to jump out my window right now.

11 hits for the Cardinals so far. With about 9 of them on ground balls that good fielders get to.

I hate the Cardinals.

Well, this sucks.

jeezus........

there ya go d lowe, nice location, moron.

That did not take long.

Derek Lowe folds

The Dodgers have a pitcher named "Taronsco" according to the Cards' analyst.

One Manny < Pujols + Ludwick.

There are no words.

I hate baseball

on a T

ggashjdgashjewqe;asfasjfkashjf.;

slaps forehead

I believe I could've hit that pitch out.

Albert Pujols is also a good hitter.

gaaaarrrgh!

Pujols being Pujols.

...and we have a yellow alert for Albert Pujols. I would also note that we have a dead alert for Derek Lowe.

So, er. Who was in favor of having Lowe pitch in relief last night?

That one, too. Is Lowe even trying?

Why the flip is Lowe still in this game!

Well I'm laughing on the inside. Torre this is where you get off your rear.

There is just a curse on this team and the Cardinals have some deal with a higher power. Every crummy player they acquire turns into a damn all-Star (see Ludwick, ryan and Lohse, Kyle) and their crap turns into greatness against the dodgers. I hate this.

There is just a curse on this team and the Cardinals have some deal with a higher power. Every crummy player they acquire turns into a damn all-Star (see Ludwick, ryan and Lohse, Kyle) and their crap turns into greatness against the dodgers. I hate this.

The weird thing is, I am not giving up on this game. Not with the Pineiro + the Cards' bullpen. Does that make me Pollyanna? No. I tried to jump out the window, too, Icaros, then remembered I'm on the first floor. But I'm not giving up.

Don't they usually have a cage in front of the pitcher when they're throwing batting practice?

poop on a stick.

Dearest Joe,

I can't give you anything but love. Especially not good pitches, because I have nothing.

Hugs and kisses,

Derek Lowe

Ludwick is having a nice season.

Just one of those days for D-Lowe.

Come on, Lowe. There are women and children watching.

god i hate st louis. their fans, their manager, poo-holes, the color red.

374 - Because that stupid rain delay blew through our pen yesterday. But now it's time to pull his Cardinal-jinxed butt out of there.

Sigh.

al hrabosky somehow un-ironically mispronouncing troncoso's name must have distracted derek lowe. i can't watch this anymore... for several reasons.

Lowe can't possibly blame this on the defense, or the lack of a big bat. I feel bad that he doesnt get run support normally, but step up Lowe

384 - Dude. Seriously. Chill.

At least the Diamondbacks lost. Looks like I'll be avoiding sports highlights tonight. PS3, here I come.

MEMO
TO: Larry Bowa
FROM: Ken Noe
RE: Lowe

Lowe's done. Please wake up Joe.

Don't forget guys, San Luis has a very poor bullpen.

385 - Maybe Manny can throw an inning in relief.

The St. Louis media is pulling a Minnesota and jumping on the wrong guy's bandwagon for MVP. Pujols is your MVP, not Ludwick.

Great, now we can waste a rested Kou for nothing (x2)...

You know what's creepy? This is my conversation with my co-worker (Giants fan) today:
Me: I'll take Lowe over Pineiro anyday
Him: Yea, but Pujols will come out of his slump and hit 2 out
Me: Well, Manny will see that and hit 2 himself
Him: But Manny will hit 2 solo shots while Pujols hits a slam and a 3 run shot.

Dang, he's half way there. I hope the latter doesn't happen.

Innings like this I like to remind myself it's just a game.

Sometimes his sinker doesn't sink, and then he's terrible. Plus he can't do boo vs. St Louis anyway. Put that together and you get tonight.

391
Your posts always cheer me up. You my boy, Blue!

I wish my soccer game was earlier now.

Some nights you just get rocked. Clearly this is one of those nights.

393 Sometimes it works. Twice in the last three years, there has been an MVP who was the third-best player on his own team.

392 Just think about the value that would add to the trade. Just like we say about Babe Ruth: "...and he also pitched!"

401
Rollins the other one? Good point.

timely hits!

A run an inning.

Wasn't there a story out of spring training earlier about Pujols' dealing with a lingering injury this year?

How does Ryan Ludwick go from being a n absolutely garbage 28 year old player to a guy with a 1.000 OPS? How is that even remotely possible?

See that Lowe? It's called a double play. Remember?

Hey boys and girls, I just pulled into Orlando. Anything happening in the game?

I heart DP's

406 He's playing with a torn ligament in his elbow. He'll likely be having Tommy John surgery as soon as the season ends.

Cursed, I tells ya, cursed!

And Kemp hits 2 absolute rockets right at guys to lead off innings. Its like the Twighlight Zone or something.

407 The St. Louis Arch is actually a shrine to the god of washed up hacks.

It's very effective.

Games in St Louis make me want to BABIP my head in.

Ha! Everyone watching on MLB.tv is now getting the warning that their DVR is entering sleep mode.

Wake up, lazy MLB intern! Wake up!

407 Ludwick should be tested after every single game. And Joel Pinero knows how to hold a 5 run lead.

Feh.

Way to get right back in it, guys. Oh well.

7 pitch inning.
Yipee.

The Dodgers are better at home than on the road.

Who the heck would eat dinner, and watch a movie in their van IN THEIR DRIVEWAY? Come on automakers...

Russell Martin needs some Focusin.

I think I'm so bitter because my boss is a Cardinals "fan" and gloats all the damn time. Not like he could name the guys on the team, or knew who Ryan Ludwick or Kyle Lohse were before this year. Its just so aggravating seeing this team just turn crap into gold every year, especially when the two teams meet.

The AT&T commericals feature an actor who I would describe as "the poor man's Paul Giamatti."

Of course, it wasn't all that long ago that Paul Giamatti was the poor man's Paul Giamatti.

It makes me wonder -- did the director say, "Get me Paul Giamatti! What? You say he's doing 'John Adams' for HBO? Well, get me a Paul Giamatti type!"

Most hits allowed in a game by L.A. Dodger starting pitchers.

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/BZCT

407 it's a little game called "one of these things is not like the other one." happens all the time... you might recall adrian beltre?

425 Before I look I'm going to guess Fernando.

Lowe is the first L.A. Dodger starting pitcher ever to allow 13 or more hits in fewer than four innings.

With last night's game, Matt Kemp is now listed as the CF on the Dodger's b-r page, not Andruw Jones. And with today's shot, Manny now has as many Dodger HRs as Jones.

Missed by one. Shucks.

See that Lowe? It's called a groundout. Remember?

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=gammons_peter

Gammons typed up his rant on Baseball Tonight.

Since Manny has 2 more PA, we know it will at least be 8-5. :)

So we only need to come up with the other 3 runs. Doubtful Isringhausen comes in tonight, but I still think we can do it.

Exorcising demons with a new post up top.

428 That's actually kind of hard to believe! Kooky.

419 5 IP, 59 pitches. Joel Pineiro. Pineiro??

431
To be fair, Lowe had a 6/1 G/F ratio tonight, and I gather that many of the "hits" were on the ground. He can't be expected to control whether the grounders go right to our infielders or not.