Andruw Jones pulling a "Manny"?

Has a MLB team ever got in trouble for phantom DL'ing a guy?

I don't know whether Jones is hurt or not, but I have no doubt that he's disabled.

3 He prefers "hitting challenged," if you don't mind.

Man, someone else talking about our "dangerous" line-up... nice.

Dang--LATed again.

Yes we do look like a pretty good offence now, especially with Furcal or even a good Nomar back.

448 from last thread-

It would be nice to start a streak tonight but Hamels is a real challenge. I didn't realize just how good his peripherals are.

Hamels has a FIP of 3.86 his bhuge HR totals the main reason, but in about the same amount of IP, he's given up 36 HR at home and 31 HR on the road so it's not all the park... Kershaw's FIP is at 3.90.

Jones is like Kerri Strug. It's the Olympic spirit. Bela Karolyi carried him from the fence.

The 180: I used to read Plaschke and skip Simers. Now it's the other way around.

Simers speaks truth to power. Obnoxiously so, but still.

Jones is like five Kerri Strugses.

We miss Jamie Moyer this series, but he's having a historically good year. At age 45, he has a 107 ERA+. Only 7 pitchers since 1901 have achieved that, including the oldest guy to HR before Julio Franco.

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/hKtB

Actually, only 13 pitchers 45 or older have even thrown 100 innings. The Unit gets the chance to join that club next season.

Why is Kerri being picked on this morning?

11
117 ERA+ for Moyer, not 107.

12 I'd never pick on Kerri. That vault was one of the guttiest things I've ever seen in athletics.

It would be a heck of a lot more entertaining if Torre put down the Bigelow for a second and was always on the top step of the dugout, Karolyi style, yelling words of encouragement on the club. Rather than go on the DL, Rafael Furcal would "shake it off!" and still be atop the lineup. :)

I took the Dodger Trolley last night, and I will probably not take it again. The ride to the park was no problem. It probably added about 40 minutes to my commute, but I got there in time for the first pitch, and it was pretty relaxing. The real bummer is where they drop you off. Down by the bleachers guarantees that the majority of the people on the trolley will be walking up hill. If they could somehow drop you off straight ahead from the entrance, it would put you near the left field side of the reserved level, a pretty central location for all ticket holders. This becomes more of a problem when you leave. There were plenty of trolleys at the end of the game, but they take a route that winds all the way around the stadium to the original entrance/exit. It took about 25 minutes to get out of the stadium and another 15 or so to get to Union Station. So far, I would be okay with the system, but the final kicker was when we reached the Gold Line at 11:00pm. We sat and waited for 20 minutes for the train to leave (due to the fewer trains on the track at that time). So, I normally would have been home around 10:45 but I walked in the door at 11:45. If I was someone that always paid for parking, it might be worth it. But, since I always park outside and walk in, I will probably stick with that approach, especially since it is such an easy drive from Pasadena.

Like most of us here I've wondered why McCourt didn't can Ned as he makes one expensive blunder after another. Does anyone deserve it more? But now we're hearing that he has serious money problems so that explains it: He can't afford to fire Ned, pay next year's salary and then hire a replacement. The classic solution is to fire him along with some of his assistants, promote Ng and/or White, give them a backloaded contract. A few more bucks can be made by renting out Ned's office... Net is a lower overhead AND improved performance in the office.

Phillies fans blamed the ump on a couple of blogs I read last night, including this comment on the BeerLeaguer blog (which is a pretty good Phillies' blog as far as the writer's commentary goes):
"Last night's game was not helped by the fact that it looked like Tim Donaghy had his umpire crew working the game. The third inning alone showed several botched calls. The balk. The home plate ump making a delayed call on the walk where Ruiz threw the ball away. The strike zone was all over the place."

Yeah, I totally thought the Dodgers won because of the umps. :-/

(I did think the balk was a little weird, though it did look like Kendrick came up but never came to a stop. But he does that a lot and they never call it.) Otherwise... whatever.

A team with smart management would figure out a way to have Kershaw skip an upcoming start or two. But then I remembered Clayton plays for the Dodgers.

There are off-days on the first two Thursdays of September, that might be a good time for Kershaw to miss a turn while still giving the other starters their normal rest. If not that, then maybe one of the Sept. call-ups like Stults or McDonald can fill in.

Incidentally, the schedule is pretty heavy the rest of the way. There are 44 games remaining, but only four more off-days: Aug. 18, and Sept. 4, 11 and 22.

Regarding Kershaw is it innings pitched we should focus on or should it be pitches thrown?

I would think the amount of pitches should be the concern. How many pitches did Kershaw throw last year compared to this season?

Dodgers should do a promotional gimmick with McDonald's when McDonald starts.

From Rob Neyer:

Craig (PA): Hey Rob, as a Dodgers fan, how should a deal with the stress of a stingy owner of a big market team? It seems we could've gotten some more talent at the break (Sabathia, Maddux) if McCourt had been willing to spend.

Rob Neyer: (12:25 PM ET ) But he's been willing to spend, and what good has it done? I think McCourt may finally have realized that giving his GM money is like flushing it down the toilet.

Craig (PA): Quick follow-up, so you're saying the Dodgers problem is Colletti not McCourt. Then why not just promote Logan White?

Rob Neyer: (12:28 PM ET ) I suspect that'll happen in two months if the Dodgers finish behind the D'backs.

17 The Dodgers payroll declines substantially at the end of the year, and even more after 2009 once Schmidt and Jones are gone. McCourt may well be having money trouble at this moment, but he can afford to fire Ned if he wants to do it. The real question is how much he has to scrimp and save to keep Manny, which surely he will try to do. They will move JP at a bargain if necessary--note how he's just become expendable--and the rest of the team will be young and cheap. Get ready for the Loney-DeJesus-Hu-DeWitt infield. I do agree about Ng and White.

I suspect that'll happen in two months if the Dodgers finish behind the D'backs

I understand this line of thinking, but I reject the notion that the evaluation of Ned's performance (and his future with the organization) should depend at all upon the DBacks's record at the end of the year.

23

I imagine Pierre will want to be moved next year too. How much of his salary would we need to pick up to move him?

18 Both of those calls turned out to be insignificant as far as the scoring goes. The balk was in the 2nd inning and didn't net a run and Kent was hit by a pitch right after the error on the steal so the bases would have been loaded anyway. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

That being said, I'm still not sure where the balk was.

19 There are many examples of Dodger management (i.e. Colletti) not being smart, but the handling of Kershaw this shouldn't be included. They've at least had a plan and stuck to it. You can agree or disagree with the plan, but they had a semblance of a plan. If we're running tight with the D-backs, and Kershaw continues to pitch well, do you want him on the mound or Stultz/McDonald? The other issue is Torre not leaving him in for an excessing number of pitches.

20 A guy named Ronald McDonald used to pitch in the Mets system. I saw him in the mid-seventies in the Carolina League.

24 I agree--they have to win the league pennant for Ned to survive.

25 Most articles I've seen suggest it might require half. But that's still a $14 million savings over three years.

23 . The Dodgers will need lots of money freed up at that point just to keep the younger guys, no? Kemp, Loney, Martin, Billingsley, Broxton, Ethier all will be hitting arbitration right about that time, I think. Someone correct me if I incorrectly understand the CBA.

I thought the balk was legitimate. He clearly came to a stop twice in my opinion.

30 I could see that I suppose, but he seems to do the same thing every time

20 Total pitches is probably a more accurate measure of total arm usage, but I don't know where to find minor league pitch count data. (One would think it would be useful for the Dodgers to track it though, at least for their bigger investments.)

b-r.com does tell me that Kershaw has thrown 1047 major-league pitches (265 batters faced, 3.95 P/PA against a league average of 3.80) and faced 241 minor-league batters this season. Last season, 520 minor-league batters. Anyone know an average number of pitches a minor-league batter sees per PA?

27 That's all fine, except that I'm not really sure what the Dodgers' plan is with Kershaw, except to see "how his arm reacts" to each start, whatever that means. I also take issue with the IP limit they have on him: 170 seems a pretty high for a pitcher who's never thrown more than 122 in a year before. I'd like to see it below 160, personally.

Last year, the Red Sox had no problem shutting down Clay Buccholz, even though they were in a September pennant race and Buccholz had just thrown a no-hitter. The Dodgers (and Dodger fans) need to show the same discipline.

32. Pitch counts can be pretty accurately estimated given the standard pitching data like IP,H,SO,BB. If you give me those numbers from the minors last year, I will give you the estimated pitch count.
vr, Xei

34
2008: 61.1 IP, 39 H, 19/59 BB/K
2007: 122 / 89 / 67 / 163

35. Thanks. My excel spreadsheet spat out 2061 pitches for Kershaw in the minors last year. This of course is an estimate.
vr, Xei

24 - really? a club's performance should not be judged in relation to other clubs? that seems strange to me.

I definitely don't think the organization should be happy with just winning the division, but winning the division is at least a step in the right direction - no matter how terrible the division ended up being.

36. Which is 3.96 pitches P/PA, right in line with what Kershaw is doing this year.
vr, Xei

The Dodgers could very well go 82-80 and end up winning the division. That doesn't change the fact that Ned Colletti spent a lot of money to assemble a mediocre 82-80 team.

39
Exactly. The DBacks's record is completely irrelevant, and the Dodgers's record is only partially relevant.

Plus McCourt cares about PR, and the NL West winner will be hammered by the press as an unworthy weakling until eliminated. Only a playoff series victory will change their tune. We can say that's irrelevant, but is it irrelevant to Frank? No, Ned needs more than the West.

Ned needs a photo of McCourt sleeping with a goat.

So is JP in the dog house for comments the other day, and how long will it be

"Who let the Dogs out"...woof woof

I wonder how Ned feels about Pierre sitting on the bench.

44
He problem isn't too torn up about it since he has acquired two players that play the positions Pierre was playing in an eight month span.

43 As soon as Eithier stops hitting.

problem = probably

I doubt Colletti can order Torre to play someone just to make his own ego feel better. I would assume that in any conflict between Torre and Colletti, that Torre wins in a walkover.

You can buy a Joe Torre jersey at the souvenir shops. But you can't buy a Ned Colletti souvenir mustache.

Phoenix radio station KTAR reported yesterday the two players to be named later in the Dunn deal were on the D-Backs 40-man roster, which eliminates Jarrod Parker as one of the choices.

Looking at the roster, the only D-Backs currently on the DL that are possibly the traded ones are Edgar Gonzalez and Doug Slaten.

Would there be another reason for the players to bot be named, other than perhaps the Reds choosing two from an agreed-upon list?

I'm not at all convinced that McCourt will fire Colletti, but I'd love to hear McCourt's speech if/when he does.

"We appreciate Ned's service to the organization. He did a terrific job, but we've decided to move in a different direction."

No deal has been more significant to the Doddger fortunes at the box office this year than the deal for Manny Ramirez.

Just prior to the trade deadline, I attended two games against the Nationals. Now the Nationals are not a good club but it was a weekend series so the crowds are usually pretty good. The announced crowds were in the low 40 thousand range but there were significantly less people in the park for both Saturday and Sunday.

The next game I went to was the first game against the D-Backs right after the Manny trade had been announced. The crowd was very excited and though you could account for some of the excitement to the opponent (though D-Backs and Rockies don't bring out the rivalry spirit like the Giants and Padres at Dodger Stadium), people were very anxious about Manny's arrival.

I then attended Saturday's game against the D-Backs, and the place was packed, I mean not only was it announced at 52,000, there were 50,000 in the park. Manny hits his first home run and the love affair begins.

Last night, I went to the game with Greg Brock, (I showed up like a typical Dodger fan, right when the 3rd inning began) Normally a Monday night game with no give-aways, 42,000 max was probably the average this year and thats tickets sold. Last night 45,000+ and the parking lots were full, the outer regions of the reserve level had people sitting in them. And when Manny came to plate with the bases loaded and delivered in the 3rd inning, the place errupted.

I hate to say it but in LA, sure winning teams will draw but nothing brings out the casual attendee like a star and Manny Ramirez is doing that. Tonight's game will probably be close to a sell out, I am sure Saturday's game will be close to one too.

I see young people, older people wearing No. 99 jerseys.

And Manny did something no one else could do, he made Pierre a 4th outfielder.

And you know what else, it is great fun to watch Manny swing the bat.

50
That sounds like pretty much every firing press conference, other than perhaps the occasional "In light of the recent misconduct..."

That sounds like pretty much every firing press conference

Exactly. And McCourt will look ridiculous trying to justify firing Ned a year-plus after calling Ned the greatest decisions he'd ever made. Frank won't say anything bad about Ned, and it will be unclear why he's getting fired.

51--All that sounds great but shouldnt the increase in revenue allow McCourt to have more funds available?

The Frank McCourt cant add payroll thing this year is really disturbing.

If the Reds are paying a portion of Dunn's salary, the almost HAVE to get something decent in return.

Gotta love the Toga Gold Medal winner. He's never been there in his life.

51 good stuff BH.

Casey, LA, CA: Rank for the next 2 years, Billingsley, Lackey, Johan.

Rob Neyer: (12:59 PM ET ) Lackey, Santana, Billingsley (who's a distant third).

Is Lackey really that much better? Johan's fastball is now in the high 80's, is Billingsley really that far behind the other two mentioned?

PTBNL cant be guys that have played in the big leagues IIRC, so that eliminates Scherzer too (although I couldnt see the Dbax trading Scherzer for 2 months of Dunn anyways).

It'll probably be Owings & a fringe guy.

If we were to release JP right now and someone picked him up (Drays) are we responsible for his contract for the next few years?

53. I seem to remeber a certain GM forcing a new manager onto the club and another manager who recently had signed an extension simply retired to spend more time with his family. I'm not sure how much family Ned has, but it would be convienant and in line with a response from McCourt like this

"Ned has done a great job in his tenure here as GM. We support his personal decision to be with his family and fully respect his choice to leave the Dodgers in good graces. Should he have a change of heart, Ned will certainly be welcome back, albeit in a different role as the GM position will need to be replaced ASAP. Ned will have an active role in helping us determine who is best suited as his replacement."

The marginal gain in revenue from Manny Ramirez's acquisition at this time is minimal.

Next year would be more telling.

54 No he doesn't, its his business and I think he has a right to decide on how to spend his money.

As someone who has gone to 24 games this year, I can say that the last two games that I have attended with Manny on the team have had more excitement and buzz in the crowd than the other 22 games I have gone to prior to that.

Well, there was that no-hitter, so I may have to rethink that statement.

When Nomar returns tonight, every Dodger except Kent will have an OPS+ > 100 and Kent is coming on strong with an OPS of 844 in the last 28 days.
The defense is weak but 1 - 8 is about as good as it will get for us.

60
Well done.

59 How could that work with Owings and not with Scherzer, they are both players that have been optioned this year.

61
Not if they get to the postseason. I don't think any postseason revenue is marginal.

I was at Kuroda's near perfect game v. the Braves and nothing crowd-related that game came close to Manny's first game. I was walking to my seat (yes, typical Dodger fan) as he was walking to bat, and everyone in reserve level stopped to watch. It was amazing.

62--Thats quite a distinct change from your prior stance that the Dodgers under McCourt have never declined to pursue a free agent due to monetary issues.

65--Yep you're right. I keep forgetting Owings was in fact optioned.

The players left on their 40 man roster, yet have not played in the big leagues isnt a very impressive talent pool to pick from.

66 Unless you're the Braves and can't sell out World Series games!

Last night Manny said he used to watch Kent play when he was young. Kent started playing full time in 1992. Manny in 1993. I'm not sure Manny realizes he is about to enter the twilight of his career. Which is not to say they won't be productive twilight years but twilight nonetheless.

Gary Sheffield was still one of the best hitters in baseball at the age of 36. 37 - 39, not so impressive and that is in a league where he can DH.

Manny finishing his career in NY will probably be what happens. He grew up there & each team has plenty of money to throw at him.

Dodgers could get a pretty high draft pick if he signs with the Mets. The Mets will likely be on the high end of the unprotected picks.

just because manny was also playing when he was young doesn't mean he wasn't watching kent... just sayin'

70
Can you rationalize a world series ticket? 200.00 to sit in the far far loge. Lots of couch potatoes who rarely make the journey themselves make fun of franchises who don't draw fans.

53
McCourt will look ridiculous trying to justify firing Ned a year-plus after calling Ned the greatest decisions he'd ever made. Frank won't say anything bad about Ned, and it will be unclear why he's getting fired.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, at the time McCourt made that statement (that Ned was the greatest decision he's ever made) the Dodgers under Ned were 1 for 1 in playoff appearances and were a half game off the best record in the NL (which they would claim after the win on DT Day). Ned's record in his tenure was 142-117 (a .548 win%) at that time.

The 87-96 record since (.475 win%) and possibly missing out on two playoff seasons will be the undoing of Ned. I don't think the two actions (the statement and the potential firing) are hard to separate or justify.

73
Oh I know, but in the interview it seemed like he meant when he was a kid.

The fact we had to sell Carlos Santana to acquire Blake because of the bad deals sitting on the DL would probably have been the undoing of Ned if not for the fact that Manny fell into our laps.

If the PBTNL in the Dunn deal are on the 40 man and have to clear waivers, what's stopping us from putting a claim on them and completely hosing the deal?

68 No its not, I tend to look at what is happening as opposed to what Peter Gammons says is going on.

72 I don't think anyone can say what will probably happen at this time. So much can happen between now and the end of the season. What if the Dodgers win the World Series behind Manny and then throw lots of money at him? I'm content to sit back and enjoy the ride for now.

78 They could have been cleared already though its hard to believe that Owings would not be claimed for $50,000 by someone.

This is why you usually trade non-40-man roster minor leaguers as players to be named later because you have no waiver issues with them.

Also, if they are on the 40-man roster already, the Reds would either have to protect them or risk losing them to a Rule V draft.

81 Right, that's why I'm confused.

81
Are you sure of the $50,000 waiver claim figure? I couldn't find that in the CBA, nor reported anywhere outside of the Rule 5 draft.

82 Now they could wait until after the season and the Rule V draft and then make a trade. (You have 6 months.)

83 Oh, you are right, I am thinking about Rule V draft, waivers, you pick up the existing contract, which in the case of any of the players on the 40-man roster is going to be pro-rated anyway.

Since Manny plays defense, defensively and runs the bases gingerly maybe he will age gracefully.

I don't believe for a second that he does not know the count. Vinny may have believed him but I don't.

Some info on the reason for the PTBNL status:

Byrnes said he "can't shed any light" on the unnamed players. Players on the 40-man roster have to clear waivers first to be traded after July 31. The players who were not announced in the deal either have not yet been placed on waivers or did not pass through unclaimed.

If the players don't make it through waivers, the soonest they could be traded is after the final regular-season game of the season.

http://tinyurl.com/5sx3ke

Eric is becoming Bob like. We are going to have to get him a job where he has to work otherwise he will continue to correct us all day long.

83
Kent is smoking, hasn't he made up 10 points in OPS+ in the last month?

82
Were you waiting to see how Broxton fared against Ryan Howard before posting your Broxton savior piece?

I think Broxton is one of the unluckiest pitchers I've watched when batters make contact.

89 Do you think he sometimes falls in love with his slider?

Of course the same could be said about K-Rod.

89 It messed with my numbers a bit (plus I just got out of a two and a half hour meeting).

Watching it live last night, it just seems like his slider is not fooling anyone anymore. So, if someone can wait on the fastball, they can hit it pretty well. Utley was so close to tying the game.

For those of you at the game last night, did the ball seem to travel weird to you? I don't know if it was the air, but there were a couple of hits that I thought were gone but they died, and I didn't even stand up for Blake's homer, because at that point I thought it would just fall short at the wall.

Speaking of Manny and Kent, didn't see this posted here before. From the AP, an amusing recap of Manny's 9th last night:

>>"This time, there was a plausible explanation—sort of—for Ramirez's brief but conspicuous absence: He thought he had been pulled from the game.

Dodgers manager Joe Torre explained that there was some miscommunication between he and Ramirez, acquired from Boston at the July 31 trade deadline.

After Ramirez was forced out at the plate in the eighth inning, Torre pointed to him from a distance as a way of congratulating the slugger for his single. But Ramirez thought that meant he was being taken out of the game for defense, so he headed up the tunnel.

Just another curious moment for one of baseball's most baffling characters.

"When he came out, his jersey was half undone," teammate Jeff Kent said with a smirk. "So if he was going to the bathroom, he takes his jersey off to do it." <<

http://tinyurl.com/5jaljs

Made me chuckle.

90
I don't know but he hung one to Utley that should have left the yard so maybe he's not as unlucky as I stated.

and the other two players have yet to be named but are on the Diamondbacks' 40-man roster and in their farm system.

D-Backs on the 40-man not on the 25-man roster
P Jon Coutlangus (age 27 season)
P Emiliano Fruto (24)
P Micah Owings (25)
P Jalien Pegero (27)
P Max Scherzer (23)
P Esmerling Vazquez (24) (best changeup per BA)
C Wilkin Castillo (24) (best defensive catcher per BA)
C Robby Hammock (31)
IF Javier Brito (25) (best strike zone discipline, per BA)
IF Josh Whitesell (26)

90
Are they selling the skull caps at the stadium? and if so how much? I'm being inundated by family to buy some.

Broxton seems to just have two pitches: Fastball & slider.

If he cant locate the fastball (which he didnt last nite), he'll get in trouble bc his slider almost always ends up a ball if guys lay off of it.

Broxton can get still be effective as long as he throws 98+. Be interesting to see if he can keep his velocity in the coming years. He'll need to develop the other pitches if his velocity were to ever drop.

93 I thought that too but when I saw Ethier running out to right field, I knew that wasn't the case.

CBS on the implosion of Andruw. It really is remarkable.

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10928887

97 I thought I saw a change-up or two from him, too, no? His change is still in the upper 90s... But yeah he definitely needs one more solid pitch in his repertoire.

88
Kent is going to have to OPS something like 1.030 the rest of the way to get to a 110 OPS+.

Luckily, last year from August 16 through the end of the season, Kent put up a .353/.418/.569 line. It's not over yet! :)

Broxton has some absurdly good numbers for a guy that has so many flaws.

102 What does it matter if he "doesn't have what it takes"? ;-)

33 I wouldn't call the Red Sox situation analagous to Kershaw and the Dodgers this year. Bucholz made 3 starts last year, I believe as a fill-in basis when the Sox had injuries. Kershaw is pretty clearly one of the Dodgers 5 best at this time. The Red Sox also had a 5-game lead in the division when Bucholz threw the no-hitter Sept. 1, and a 7.5 game lead in the Wild Card. It's easier to shut a guy down in those circumstances.
I'm not saying the Dodgers shouldn't shut down Kershaw, just that it appears that they recognize the potential for overwork. I do think "how his arm feels" is one criteria, along with innings and number of pitches. I would hope that if Kershaw is having any discomfort, they would have him skip a start or just not pitch anymore this year. But this is the Dodgers we are talking about.

102--He's only given up 2HRs in 50 ip. That helps.

Maybe Jones could do that Ultra Slim Fast diet and get back in playing shape.

105 The 11 strikeouts per nine and over 3 to 1 K/BB are nice too.

99
That article says that Jones weighs 30 more pounds this year than he weighed last year in Atlanta.

108

and 70..... SEVENTY lbs, more than when he came up

Andruw at 19:

http://tinyurl.com/5ffd5h

108 man, that can't be healthy.

110
The Dodgers reportedly tried to pursue the two men in that picture this past offseason.

110

Man, that is crazy

It is definitely possible that what happened here is:
Andruw- hGH = all blubber, no bat speed.
No way to be sure, but there is some antidotal evidence to that end.

¥et, it is not impossible for him to go out and hire the best trainer in the world to be in shape for next season. I don't think we have seen the last of Jones. Maybe for this year, but not career wise.

there is some antidotal evidence to that end

If only there were an antidote as well.

What about Manny? He was quite a bit thinner when he first came up, too.

And of course so was Barry Bonds! Er, never mind that example.

115 I don't think so, I think he is fat, rich and happy. Jones seems like the type that it's his way or the highway, and if Jones thinks his weight has nothing to do with it (I'm sure he does), he'll sill weigh 235 next year

Bob at 22 - 170 lbs
Bob 20 years later - 220 lbs
I passed a recent physical with nary a nag from my doctor.

If Andruw Jones had gone from 180 to say 250 over a period of 11 years, I can't say that his health is in any trouble. It's not like he's Dmitri Young or Cecil Fielder.

It is understandable that a player puts on weight as he ages, but the difference between, say Manny, and Andruw is the type of weight they put on. Manny looks pretty solid from what I can tell through the baggy uniform and dreadlocks. Andruw looks very soft in the arms, midsection, thighs. He needs to lose about 30 lbs of fat and add about 15 lbs of lean muscle mass.

I don't think ive ever heard Mannys name linked to any kind of perf. enhancing drugs... could be that there really wasn't a power spike- he has been remarkably consistent (given the usual age related effects). Also- he doesn't really look like his body changed all that much.

Who isn't thicker at 31 then at 19? Ever heard of Tony Gwynn?

122 Brittney Spears

Well, hey, I was 150 lbs when I was 20, and I'm 160 lbs twenty years later. So I guess I should have been a professional athlete.

Who wasn't 30 pounds heaver at 31 than at 30?

125

anyone who was already married at 30

The Buchholz hype machine was badly exposed this year. This guy is only a month younger than Bills, but is far more noteworthy because he no-hit a horrible team in 2007.

99 Just amazing about poor Jones. If I were him I would start spring training at 200-210. It is one variable he can control. And I know the story about how dieting ruined his 2007!

118 So you think he's happy despite having numerous articles dedicated to saying how much he sucks?

129
I think he reads those articles on his laptop computer made of solid gold. :)

According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, the tentative 2009 MLB schedule has the Dodgers opening up with 4 games at Petco Park.

That likely means I will witness my first Dodger opening day in person next year. Woo hoo!

128
He'll have more incentive to get in shape next year, assuming he wants to keep playing beyond 2009. But there's always a chance that he intended his current contract to be his last, in which case he might not care much about his performance in 08 or 09.

Weight Thoughts?

127 Buchholz is not a good example of an over hyped prospect. Did you see the guy's numbers in AAA last year? He'll be fine.

Jacoby Ellsbury on the other hand...

129 If he doesn't really care that much about baseball than yes he's very happy. If you don't like your job that much and you knew the next two years you're gonna make an obscene amount of money you would probably be happy even if you can't preform to upper managements expectations.

Bettr go grab your lunch now so you can get in line for the Larry Bowa chat fest coming up.

Eric from Carlsbad: Larry, so what do you think having Nomar back in the lineup do for the Dodgers?
DodgerGuest: Well, Nomar, he's someone who knows what it takes to win games at this time of year. He'll give everything he's got and he's a leader on the field and in the clubhouse.

Ken from Alabama: Mr. Bowa, do you think the young players have proven that they are not the problem this year?
DodgerGuest: I like DeWitt, he's gritty and soaks up baseball learning like a sponge.

BH from Los Angeles: Did you wave Loney home last night?
DodgerGuest: Next question.

134 I'm not saying he won't be good, but almost every outlet in the offseason called him the #1 pitching prospect in baseball. In reality, he's a country mile away from Kershaw.

Buchholz doesn't even have Billingsley's ceiling, who has never been hyped nationally.

Which is why this game will never be right until they get rid of guaranteed contracts. Look at the NFL- which is MUCH more dangerous and physically life impacting. Players union is just out of control. Period.

KG at 18: 197 lbs
KG at 22: 225 lbs
KG at 30: 255 lbs

oh to have the time to swim 10000 yards and lift weights for an hour every day.

Baseball will get rid of guaranteed contracts right after I develop my automobile that runs on a combination of seawater and my own sense of self-satisfaction.

137 I wouldn't say that, it was a tossup between him, Kershaw and Joba.

Plus he was hurt this year.

Red Sox just acquired Byrd. Will either send a Player to be named later or cash.

138
Is the game really not "right"?

142 Marlon or Paul?

138 Don't look now but that NFL CBA is about to go by the wayside, both sides want major changes.

Owners want some type of control on rookie salaries and paying out signing bonuses.

Players will want earlier opportunities to leave for free agency.

Players could also ask for the end of the draft and just have open competition for signing straight out of college.

Some owners may ask for less sharing of revenue from concessions (why should the Vikings get money from Dallas Cowboys merchandise).

If you thought baseball had some ugly labor wars, this next one in the NFL is going to be worse.

139 Keep that pace up you'll be cool 545 at the age of 90.

141 The age differential plays a big part of it.

7 448 from last thread-

It would be nice to start a streak tonight

But they won last night. So the only way they can start a streak tonight is to lose. :-)

144 Paul Byrd.

If people had read the Griddle at 12:48 pm, they would have known which Byrd it was.

147 True. I had Buchholz ahead of Kershaw coming into the year because even though Buchholz was older, he put up better numbers in a more advanced league.

Bluebleeder at 22 - 120 ponds
Bluebleeder at 30 (something) 150+ pounds

81 78 They could have been cleared already though its hard to believe that Owings would not be claimed for $50,000 by someone.

As has already been pointed out, the $50,000 figure is for the Rule 5 draft. Years ago a waiver claim cost $100.00. But I read somewhere last year that in today's computer age the league office just charges a $1.00 transaction fee.

Owens for Adam Dunn might be worth it.

Linkmeister @ 33 -- 215 lbs
Linkmeister @ 34 -- 175 lbs
Linkmeister @ 57 -- 160 lbs

I'm regressing!

Ken from Alabama: Mr. Bowa, do you think the young players have proven that they are not the problem this year?
DodgerGuest: I like DeWitt, he's gritty and soaks up baseball learning like a sponge.
No mention of Kemp or Loney...shocking.

Uncle Miltie at 14- 125 lbs
Uncle Miltie at 21-175 lbs

And no I can't run a 5:25 mile anymore.

It would be interesting to know how much LAT weighed at young & present...

155 At this pace you'll weigh 84 pounds at the age of 90.

156 There's a reason why Torre's the manager, and not Larry Bowa.

156
The cafeteria in Carson Hall can really pack on the lbs.

Marty at 12: 160 pounds
Marty at 14: 125 pounds
Marty at 19: 230 pounds
Marty at 22: 165 pounds
Marty at 30: 200 pounds
Marty at 40: 245 Pounds
Marty at 50: 225 pounds

Marty is not consistent.

145 Interesting that mandatory guaranteed contracts aren't on the table. That's one thing I still can't understand about pro football.

There won't be any labor war in the NFL anyway. The players union is a pushover.

156 I was joking. The chat doesn't start for another 30 minutes.

162 The problem is the hard cap and the percentage of guarnateed revenues to be paid out under the salary cap.

Terry at 18: 160 lbs.
Terry at 36: 160 lbs.

Terry at 18: Could dunk a volleyball, was a state champion sprinter (100 and 200).

Terry at 36: Gets winded walking to mailbox, is thinking (but only thinking) about starting serious workouts

96 90 Are they selling the skull caps at the stadium? and if so how much? I'm being inundated by family to buy some.

I read somewhere late last night that they don't have them in yet but were expecting to have them on sale this coming weekend. Unfortunately, I can't for the life of me remember where I read it. So I guess you'll have to take it on faith. :-)

136, 156, 159 - Wait wait wait... those Bowa responses are really from today's chat??

166.
Simers column mention they would be available this weekend.

164 I can see (if not endorse) the use of a salary cap in a sport like baseball, where the teams have wildly varying amounts of revenue. But in the NFL, all the teams get roughly the same money from TV and merchandising, with the only variation coming from stadium revenue. What possible justification is there for a salary cap in the NFL? How the players union ever signed off on that is beyond me.

136

When Loney rounded third last night I said, "Are you serious, Larry?" It was in a calm tone too.

Tigers just signed Freddy Garcia.

Could you imagine if we re-wind to March 12th, and I told that in Aug. to the end of the year the majority of our line-ups would be
C- Martin
1B- Loney
2B- Kent
SS- Nomar
3B- Blake
RF- Ethier
CF- Kemp
LF- Manny

I think most of us would be really happy with that, and probably confused also.

I still loved what Vinny said last night:

"Bowa was running down the line with Loney...Loney was out...but Bowa was safe!"

haha.

Bowa chat starts at 2 p.m PST.

136 - Good stuff.

Order of a foot race from home to home between?

1 Loney
2 Ethier
3 Bowa
4 Duncan
5 Benji Molina

169 That way the lousiest run team still makes money.

Also, the NFL doesn't like people to focus on the individual player's salary.

Everyone knows what A-Rod makes. Quick, tell me how much is Peyton Manning making and for how long?

Or even more telling, do you know how much money the O-line is collectively making on your favorite team?

Anyone have an extra ticket for tonights game? Thought I would check here before going over to stubhub.

For tonight, who is going to bat 8th if Nomar plays? Is Andruw the Black hole of lineup energy playing? With the Lefty Hamels, I can see Ethier getting benched tonight.

AZ can have Dunn, his OF fielding won't matter in games Webb is pitching as few balls reach the outfield anyway. However, the other days could be a real adventure for the Snakes if they insist on him in the OF. I will enjoy Manny's hitting for however long he's here, he is a treat to watch hit. When men are in scoring position and they have to pitch to him, it is nice to actually have confidence a player will actually deliver on that confidence. His 3rd inning double last nightwas a prime example! What a hitter! What an RBI machine!

170. Wasn't there only one out, with the #7 hitter coming up? No reason to send such a slow runner home on that play, unless someone like Pierre was throwing the ball.
vr, Xei

178. I'm guessing Nomar hits near the top of the lineup and Jones starts and hits 8th. Could also see Blake or Kent at 1B and Martin at 3B. Never know.
vr, Xei

180 That's going to be hard if Jones is DLed for Nomar.

Isn't Jones going on the DL? it hadn't occurred to me that he could be in the line up today. Wasn't he unavailable for playing in the field yest?
Stick a fork in him b/c he's done.

So its been confirm that Nomar is going to start right away?

Jones is most likely headed to the DL to open a spot up for Nomar. I believe Martin could end up batting eighth. Hamels is not the type of pitcher you load up righties on. Lefties can hit him just as well.

168 Yeah, I finally remembered it was in the T.J. Simers column in today's LA Times:

>> Fans arriving at the stadium eager to be a part of Manny Mania, though, were surprised to learn the dreadlock bandannas they had heard about had not arrived yet.

At each concession stand the answer was the same from the salesperson: "Everyone wants them."

A Dodgers spokesman said, "They probably won't be here until the weekend." <<

http://tinyurl.com/6r499f

Eithier could bat 8th. Torre was doing that for a couple of games. Casey might be batting 8th too. Really, it should be Martin tonight if on basis of hitting ability.

184
Agreed. If you load up with righties against Hamels, he can get in a groove with his fastball/changeup combination and just mow guys down.

186
Either Casey or who? Martin? Ethier?

Oops sorry I see you meant Ethier.

I definitely think Ethier will bat eighth against the tough lefty, if he plays at all. My guess, though, is that he'll be benched and Blake or Martin will bat eighth.

Hard to believe that we're considering Martin a number-eight hitter. That, gentlemen and ladies, is an embarrassment of riches. Let's hope we cash it in.

When Martin came up, he batted eighth.

For a long time.

A disturbingly long time.

191 After batting eighth in his first 42 games, he was finally moved to... ninth!

I just found out the Red Sox called up Charlie Zink to make his debut today. Awesome.

Any chance Greg Miller gets called up from Las Vegas?

I wish I lived in a world without zinc.

194 Next to none, probably, unless the Dodgers fall out of contention fairly soon. And probably not even then.

194, 196 - Able was I ere I saw Elbert.

Well I guess I will contribute to weight timeline. I was super skinny as a kid then fat as a teen and then back and forth.

Age 17-220
Age 18-148
Age 20-175 (muscular)
(currently) Age 24- 190 (in need of more muscles)

Remember that month where Greg Miller didn't walk a batter an inning?

Ah, memories.

If I had to guess, Torre will play Ardoin and move Martin to 3B and Blake to RF. Or Nomar at 3B, Berroa at SS and Blake in RF.

200 - If Torre goes out of his way to have Berroa in the lineup. We have a major problem.

People are getting on Martin's case. I wasn't expecting that.

No way Torre is in love with Berroa. No way. He can't be right, he just can't be.

Any rumors floating around in regards to
Dodgers and the waiver wire?

JP

Andruw Jones?

151 True. I had Buchholz ahead of Kershaw coming into the year because even though Buchholz was older, he put up better numbers in a more advanced league.

Buchholz is not just older, he's FAR older (3 1/2, almost 4 years). He was getting rocked in Jr. College at the same age Kershaw was holding his own in Double-A.

If Nomar is playing tonight it will be at short. That is a guarantee.

Nomar at SS. Make it happen.

Kemp CF
Ethier RF
Kent 2B
Ramirez LF
Loney 1B
Blake 3B
Martin C
Nomar SS

NL FIP leaders with greater than 25 innings pitched:

1. Takashi Saito
2. Hong-Chih Kuo
4. Ramon Troncoso
7. Jonathan Broxton

Who is in charge of bringing whiffle ball equipment this weekend?

202
From reading comments on DT since Jose Lima was knee high to a grasshopper, I would say that eventually EVERY player will face the wrath of somebody.

Nobody has immunity here.

Nobody.

This is what I got when I first looked up FIP

Feline Infectious Peritonitis (FIP)

210 That Bison is getting on my nerves! All that roaming he does, and his facial stubble, and... and... I don't like his shoes. He should be benched.

202 No point of having a guy in a hitting slump bat 3rd.

Red Sox front office could be due for shakeup

>> Lucchino could wind up joining Ramirez in Los Angeles, SI.com speculates. Dodgers owner Frank McCourt doesn't seem afraid of a little front-office friction, and Lucchino has a reputation for being difficult. <<

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=444997

210 David Ross?

In the case of Druw, all we ever asked him to do was to a least hit his weight. He's the one that upped the ante.

210 - Takashi Saito has been pretty clean. And RJ Reynolds too, but that's a much smaller sample size.

202 - Russell just looks like he is batting tired out there. He had the one good hit to right where Jayson Werth threw out Loney in the 3rd, otherwise his swings looked tired and weak. His batting average and OBP have dropped 20+ points over the last 2-3 weeks. The Golden God needs to get his second wind to help us down the stretch.

217
Saito was catching a lot of heat, almost Broxtonian, when he had the nerve to give up a few runs earlier in the season.

"What's wrong with Saito?" seemed to be a lingering question, when the answer was really "nothing."

How about that Berroa. Sure he doesn't field, or hit well, but he gives some honest at bats that completely brings you to a murderous rage.

Stupid Corey Wade.

Stupid!

Some people dared to call him a middle reliever when he first came up.

DeWitt upbeat after big league experience

>> DeWitt is batting .306 with two homers and nine RBIs in 15 games for the 51s. He's played 10 of them at second base, where Bundy said he's playing "in case something happens to (Dodgers second baseman) Jeff Kent down the stretch." <<

http://www.lvrj.com/sports/26861544.html

Manny Ramirez went 0-for-5 on Friday in San Francisco. That's intolerable. We should bench him and call up Repko.

Kershaw should become our new closer, since he obviously isn't effective as a starter.

Bills gave up three runs last time. How the heck is our ace! Time to trade for Maddux and DFA Bills. If the Giants pick him up, its an instant win for us.

The original Martin backlash was in April, when people asked if he had lost it.

224-226

LoL!

I didn't know the game thread was up already.
:]

218 - yeah, they should give Russell a game or three at DH. Oh, wait ...

131 Do they have the probable's listed fro that game yet; CC vs. Peavy?

>>Whatever happened to Giovanni Carrara?
-- Gilbert C., Caracas, Venezuela> According to his good buddy and former Dodgers teammate Cesar Izturis, he's pitching in Italy for Danesi Nettuno, along with fellow former Major Leaguers Nelson Cruz and Luis Ugueto. Carrara, a native of Venezuela, has an Italian father and a Venezuelan mother and has become a dual citizen of the countries. <<

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080811&content_id=3292968&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la

Old friend Gary Sheffield has just been waived by the Tigers. I guess Leyland was tired of his whining while he was hitting .220 - at least Andruw keeps his mouth shut!

232 Waivers, not waived. Sheffield hasn't been DFA'ed.

231 I always wondered about his heritage, given his name. It always seemed like he was okay in LA, bad everywhere else. Maybe Italy is just the ticket.

(Btw, TinyURL is your friend. ;-)

http://tinyurl.com/ )

197 Able was I ere I saw Elbert

There's an incredibly bizarre hi-fi palindrome trying to break out of that.

232 Okay, let me retract a little, they just put him on waivers but are apparently hoping to get rid of him. The Yahoo blurb on his player page made it seem like he was gone for sure.

The lineup:

Pierre, CF
Kemp, RF
Kent, 2B
Ramirez, LF
Blake, 3B
Nomar, SS
Martin, C
Loney, 1B
Kershaw, P

237 so so close.

237 Whoa, Loney 8th?

Guess that running blunder cost him in Torre's eyes!

237 - Perhaps he could've swapped Loney and Martin so it's not three straight lefties. But, it's good to see Nomar in and Berroa out.

When was Pierre's last start in CF? Recently?

2008 vs. LHP

Pierre .798 OPS
Ethier .615 OPS

237 - The Man is stickin' it to Pierre. Again.

Who was sent out for Nomar?

241
Thursday.

209 I think I am. Are you gonna participate?

Every since someone mentioned the racist tone on Juan Pierre's BR sponser it has since been changed...

Lots and lots of grit and hustle doesn't obscure the 700+ PA's of 75 OPS+ production Pierre brings. He's David Eckstein in the outfield. Bill Plaschke's unsavory fetish notwithstanding, Juan Pierre should not be a regular in baseball

The 4th outfielder is supposed to get a start every once in a while. Not that I'm happy to see Pierre's name in the lineup, but if Torre wants to keep Pierre's 'fresh', he might as well play him today, and sit him for the next five or six games.

245 - Thanks. I've been out of touch.

my mission is to strike out every single DT'er on the pick-nick.

223 Scene: Dodger Stadium Parking Lot
Time: 11:15 pm: after Dodger Home Game 64 of 2008
Sound: Ominous music in background, footsteps, keys jangling

Jeff Kent opens the door to his beaten up pickup and sits down in the driver's seat. His hands are shaking as he is fumbling with his keys. Beads of sweat have dripped down from his forehead and they cling to his mustache stubbornly. He doesn't want to, but he has to. Somebody has to! He puts the keys in the ignition and turns on the car, cringing at the thought of the inevitable sound of an explosion.

Nothing! No sound but the loud pickup gearing up. Another day survived. Kent would be the Dodger 2B for one more night.

247 It's racist to notice that Eckstein is white and Pierre is black? It's a good thing I am like Colbert and don't see colors...everyone is a shade of gray.

252 You know what I'm trying to say, I just thought it was funny that it was brought up here about a week ago and since than has been changed.

I don't see a Martin backlash, just people pointing out how bad he's been for the last few weeks.

172
Confused is right but I think we would have figured out that LaRoche had been traded. The real headstratcher would have been if we were told that Carlos Santana would be the key to getting Casey Blake and we'd feel remorse about it.

So Pierre gets to face lefties now?

ON PAPER the Dodgers definately improved themselves with the addition of Blake & Ramirez and last night (Monday) they showed just that, suprising beating the Phillies.

I thought Joe said Andre earned his spot the rest of the way?

What good is Juan Pierre when he can't even steal bases anymore?

Whatever happens tonight, I hope Kuo can give us a clean 9th. The last three nights have reminded me of Marty's favorite relief pitcher.

Torre picks his players and then puts the names in a hat to come up with his batting order. Loney has got to be the best #8 hitter in baseball. Figures I'd have tickets to a Pierre game....

252
I was scolded by a sales clerk at Nordstrom yesterday for looking for a gray jacket.

"NOBODY WEARS GRAY! WE DON'T CARRY GRAY!"

guys I might have trouble striking out:

Jon
Greg Brock
LAT
Marty
TC (I'm sure he'll be hard to strike out)
BH
DKMinik (his son is pretty good so...)

Would you trade a Jones DL for a Berroa DFA?

262 - I'll take a Jones DL AND a Berroa DFA, followed by a Hu call-up for the win!

NPUT

250 Seems like the whiffle ball crowd is pretty small. Count me in, should I be able to attend. I'm hoping I can make it, but things could change later this week.

Incidentally, wasn't there supposed to be a group purchase of tickets for the DT Picnic day? I never saw it if there was.

253 I can't be bothered to think of what you are trying to say, I'm too busy looking for things to take issue with in the words you used. ;)

260 They don't carry gray? Then it must have actually been a black David Eckstein jacket.

262 I live in fear that we eventually do DFA Jones and he signs with the Giants and starts mashing...this keeps me up nights. As I'm sure it does Ned.

260
Don't ever cry poor if you are buying Sportcoats from Nordstroms?

Hi. I'm Don G. Ovanni. And I've got a music collection for you!

I hope this is a rare insertion of Pierre for a special reason, and doesn't mean we are sharing time with Ethier. Actually the "hole" is not too big, and with Ethier I would see what that Ph.Pa. article was saying.