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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

7 8 9
2008-08-16 22:16
by Jon Weisman

First of all, the spectacular outfield play (follow the link and then click on the "featured video" tab beneath the viewer) of the Brewers was the story of this game.

As for the ball that they didn't catch, Andre Ethier's 394-foot, 35-inch drive to center field, Matt Kemp will get a lot of grief for not advancing past second base when it fell for a single. Kemp started to go halfway to second base, as is the norm, then returned to first base to tag up. I think the ball was definitely hit high enough, to a great outfielder (Mike Cameron), that it was logical for Kemp to think it would either get caught or get out. It wasn't some liner to the gap. Kemp also had a first-base coach 20 feet away that certainly could have instructed him. That being said, it is a huge bummer that Kemp was only at second base. Kemp gambled in a rational but unconventional way and didn't win.

Ethier homered earlier in the game, but Hong-Chih Kuo allowed his first home run in about three months to surrender the Dodgers' 2-1 lead. Ethier scored the tying run in the bottom of the ninth, but was unable to make a play on a low drive to right field in the top of the 10th, allowing Milwaukee to take the lead again - this time, for good, as Manny Ramirez struck out to end the game.

But it still was about the outfielders. Corey Hart practically did a face plant after his leaping catch of a fly to right. Russell Martin hit one about 90 rows into the left field stands, but Gabe Kapler was able to leap into the stands and catch it. Cameron had a diving catch that he made look easy, and Kemp had a long fly to right in the eighth. It was a pretty eventful game for one that was a pitcher's duel for the most part, and unfortunately for the Dodgers, it ended just on the wrong side of happiness.

Update: More conversation has centered on Kapler being able to make the catch without interference from fans in the stands. As I wrote in the comments below: "I know everyone's riding that fan. Me, I like to see the players decide the game, not the fans. ... The fan completely had a right to the ball. And if I were in that situation, I might well have gone for it. But I'm not going to be the one chewing out a fan for thinking that he's not part of the game."

Comments (169)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-08-16 22:27:11
1.   68elcamino427
Lated from the last thread:


2008-08-16 22:27:42
2.   Icaros
The Wrong Side of Happiness would be a great band name.
2008-08-16 22:27:53
3.   Xeifrank
I vote for "Kemp blew it", and should've been at or near the second base bag waiting for the result. Kemp is a fast runner, he could probably steal 2nd base on Kent's at bat if Cameron caught Ethier's ball. No excuse in my book for this base running blunder.
vr, Xei
2008-08-16 22:31:25
4.   The Dude Abides
That was the most frustrating game of the season to lose. Especially because of the nimrod in the first row of the LF boxes next to the bullpen. He remained seated on Martin's home run ball, and actually let Kapler jump right into his lap to rob Martin. By remaining in his seat, he prevented the fan with the glove to his right from catching that ball for a HR. Instead, Kapler caught it for an out. The nimrod has my vote as Upper Class Twit of the Year.
2008-08-16 22:32:20
5.   Jon Weisman
3 - There is an excuse. You don't have to agree with it, but there are several of us who feel what he did was justified.

Which was more likely - a high fly landing in the ballpark uncaught, or Kemp being able to steal second base at will? I think it's the former, but at a minimum I'd say it's highly debatable.

2008-08-16 22:34:00
6.   Jon Weisman
4 - I don't think those are Upper Class seats.

I know everyone's riding that fan. Me, I like to see the players decide the game, not the fans.

2008-08-16 22:35:33
7.   Xeifrank
5. Kemp colored glasses.
vr, Xei
2008-08-16 22:36:54
8.   Bob Hendley
7 - You are the one who thinks that Kemp can steal second at will. ;)
2008-08-16 22:37:30
9.   Jon Weisman
7 - No, I would say the same thing about Pierre or any runner who could have tagged up in that situation.
2008-08-16 22:38:22
10.   jasonungar07
I don't think it's about blowing it. The Dodgers, not just Kemp made a choice. And that choice was to think that Mike Cameron would catch a ball that he would catch 99 out of 100 times and so he would tag and get to 2nd. It's not about Kemp, at least to me.
2008-08-16 22:38:39
11.   Chiron Brown
Can anyone here clean and jerk 300+ pounds? I can't come close but there are some women on CNBC doing it right now.
2008-08-16 22:39:03
12.   The Dude Abides
Jon, UCTOTY was the first thing that popped into my mind that didn't violate Rule 1. Believe me, I wanted to use a more accurate term. I agree with your argument to a point, but on a ball that's actually in the stands, the fan has the right to the ball. A true fan would have manned up and either caught the ball or gotten out of the way and let the guy next to him catch it. The UCTOTY did the very worst thing, remaining in his seat so the only person with a chance to catch it was the outfielder. Not a True Blue fan.
2008-08-16 22:39:37
13.   dzzrtRatt
3 How can anyone say Kemp blew it? He saw the same game everyone else did, the one where Mike Cameron and his mates made a bunch of incredible catches (see 0 ]. Kemp is, himself, a fleet outfielder capable of incredible range. To just take off on Ethier's fly would have not only shown disrespect for Cameron's abilities, it would have been second-guessed to death if Cameron had come up with it and been able to double him off.

If you see someone do something miraculous, you don't suddenly doubt his ability to do the same miracle when it counts the most.

2008-08-16 22:40:26
14.   Xeifrank
8. haha, I think the probability of him advancing on a tag up and him stealing 2nd are close enough to warrant him to not attempt to tag up on that play (risk cost analysis).
vr, Xei
2008-08-16 22:40:48
15.   The Dude Abides
The German national anthem should be Ride of the Valkyries by Wagner. It would be much cooler.
2008-08-16 22:40:52
16.   Andrew Shimmin
America should have thought ahead and had Haydn write its national anthem, too.
2008-08-16 22:41:17
17.   Jon Weisman
Tony Jackson has come out fervently pro-Journey.
2008-08-16 22:42:08
18.   Deuce
Kemp read that the ball was high enough that it was caught or going out. If that's your read, you go back and tag. Unfortunately, he was wrong. But given the info he had to work with (height of ball, Cameron, etc.) I don't think it was a dumb play. Just turned out to be wrong.
2008-08-16 22:42:20
19.   Marty
We are 5-1 on a home stand with Philly and Milwaukee's best. I'm feeling pretty good about it.
2008-08-16 22:42:28
20.   Bob Hendley
12 - Tough to be sitting in the stands and quickly turn from spectator to participant. Now the guy sitting next to him came equipped and was ready.
2008-08-16 22:42:40
21.   dzzrtRatt
and, don't forget who was coming up to bat next. A very hot Kent and then Manny. Why would Kemp want a "baserunning blunder" to diminish the team's chances with two good hitters coming up.

Kemp's decision was heads-up, conservative baseball. Just the thing he supposedly didn't do before.

If the centerfielder is run of the mill, or if the next two hitters were Berroa and Pierre, Kemp would have probably taken the chance. But not in this scenario.

2008-08-16 22:43:48
22.   Marty
Evidently, I disagree with every opinion of Tony Jackson.
2008-08-16 22:44:32
23.   Xeifrank
Why would Kemp want a "baserunning blunder" to diminish the team's chances with two good hitters coming up.

Which is exactly what he ended up doing.
vr, Xei

2008-08-16 22:44:53
24.   Jon Weisman
12 - The fan completely had a right to the ball. And if I were in that situation, I might well have gone for it. But I'm not going to be the one chewing out a fan for thinking that he's not part of the game.
2008-08-16 22:45:01
25.   Andrew Shimmin
15- Wagner would be problematic.
2008-08-16 22:45:59
26.   68elcamino427
The positive from this is that you along with many others recognize what a talent the Bison is.
My belief is that he was taking his instructions from Duncan on this play.
Kemp has been brainwashed by Torre and Bowa.
This is a good thing.
The coaches are relentless.
Bison-Matty-Kemp, is just scratching the surface of what his talent can deliver.
2008-08-16 22:46:14
27.   Xeifrank
24. I am fully behind you on this one. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-16 22:46:19
28.   Neal Pollack
You win some, you lose some. The Brewers are a damn good team, and they beat us by inches.
2008-08-16 22:46:30
29.   Alex41592
19 - And look what it took to get that first loss. I like our team a lot. Also, take a peak at our schedule. Then take a look at the D'Backs schedule. Snakes still have 7 games with the Cardinals. We have 3 with the Nationals and 4 with the Pirates. Just something to think about after this tough loss.
2008-08-16 22:48:11
30.   dzzrtRatt
Compromise: Nancy Bea playing the Journey tune.

However, if Journey has one good song, it's "Don't Stop Believin'."

OTOH, if Fleetwood Mac has one good song, it is definitely not "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow." It was never any good, and then Bill Clinton made it worse. (Fleetwood Mac actually had a lot of good songs, in their pre-Stevie Nicks era.)

2008-08-16 22:49:05
31.   Andrew Shimmin
if Journey has one good song, it's "Don't Stop Believin'."

Agreed. Journey does not have one good song.

2008-08-16 22:49:54
32.   dzzrtRatt
23 Yeah, but the baserunning decision he made kept the rally alive. If things had gone the other way, if the catch had been made, the game would have been over if he'd decided to run.
2008-08-16 22:52:45
33.   Deuce
Where's Bartman when you need him?
2008-08-16 22:53:28
34.   Bob Hendley
Great game, tough lose. Brewers seem to be more than C.C. and Sheets, with this Bush fellow making for a tough playoff rotation. The pen, however, doesn't seem to be their strongest asset. Looks like they can hit a ton. This fellow Braun comes of the bench after a week of sitting and doubles off of Kuo.
2008-08-16 22:53:43
35.   Alex41592
Dara Torres and her team come just short but she still walks away with 3 silver medals.

Phelps is coming up in a little bit.

2008-08-16 22:55:46
36.   Xeifrank
if the catch had been made, the game would have been over if he'd decided to run.

That would be even dumber of him to do. I haven't heard anybody suggest he should've just run. Maybe there is a misunderstanding?
vr, Xei

2008-08-16 22:56:28
37.   The Dude Abides
I know, but it's getting on to 70 years. It's still an awesome piece, too bad it was misused.
2008-08-16 22:57:07
38.   68elcamino427
Playing these last games to the season's end will become more and more fun with each win.

Torre is doing a good job when his team wins five of the last six.

This is fun.

Dodger Thooughts does so much to enhance this experience for me.

Many thanks to Jon and everyone who participates here.

Thank You.

2008-08-16 22:57:31
39.   dzzrtRatt
36 Am I wrong? Kemp had two alternatives: Hold up or run. Was there a third option?
2008-08-16 22:59:16
40.   Them Blues
17 That's actually a semi-regular feature over there.
2008-08-16 23:00:44
41.   The Dude Abides
I think another big factor in our loss is that hanging breaking ball in the 8th inning. Hardy couldn't get around on Kuo's fastball, so I'm not sure why Russ called for the slider.

That homer reminded me of a certain home run against us in Colorado last September. Breaking balls to opposite-handed hitters in late innings are extremely dangerous, especially when the batter can't get around on the pitcher's fastball.

2008-08-16 23:00:54
42.   Jon Weisman
39 - I think Xei is suggesting that Kemp should have run to or near second base and await the result there, allowing him to return to first safely if Cameron caught it.
2008-08-16 23:01:24
43.   Dodgers49
3 I vote for "Kemp blew it", and should've been at or near the second base bag waiting for the result. Kemp is a fast runner, he could probably steal 2nd base on Kent's at bat if Cameron caught Ethier's ball.

Fortunately, you're not the only one voting. :-) Cameron is one of the better center fielders in the game and one has to think he would either catch that ball or it would go out. And it's unlikely Torre would have had Kemp stealing trailing by one with Kent up and Manny on deck and two outs. Durham stole for the Brewers when the game was tied. Having Kemp take the chance of getting thrown out for the 3rd out in front of your two power hitters doesn't seem like a good idea.

2008-08-16 23:02:49
44.   The Dude Abides
The choice was for Kemp to be standing on second as Cameron is making his leap. If the ball is caught, Kemp makes it back to first. If the ball isn't caught, he either scores or makes it to third, with Ethier making it to second if Bison stops at third, or getting a triple if Bison tries to score.
2008-08-16 23:03:09
45.   Bob Hendley
How about the booing for Gagne. I guess its the drug stuff, no. I mean the Dodgers were the ones who decided not to sign him up again, no?
2008-08-16 23:03:50
46.   Xeifrank
39. Yes, there was third (and probably more) option. He should've stood near 2nd base (far enough that he could return safely to first if Cameron caught it, without getting doubled up). If Cameron makes the catch, then Kemp is safe at first. If Cameron doesn't make the catch then he is atleast at third base, and on the big carrom the ball took back towards the infield, he probably scores. There is no way (imho) that Kemp should've been on 2nd base at the end of that play, no way. When I saw the runner jogging into 2nd base at the end of the play, I thought it was Ethier. I did a double-take when I saw it was Kemp. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-16 23:05:36
47.   Alex41592
Phelps is up and I don't know the result. But, regardless I think if you are near a T.V you have to watch this moment, win or lose.

Also, NBC doesn't make any sense. This would have aired at 8 p.m tonight live in the west coast. Why they continue to air this delayed boggles my mind.

2008-08-16 23:05:47
48.   dzzrtRatt
42 I think #1 on Kemp's mind was not ending the game by getting doubled up. Given the situation, it's hard to argue that his decision was a blunder. It was a conservative percentage play that didn't work out. I bet Torre was pleased with his caution (which I realize might put the kibosh on it).
2008-08-16 23:06:37
49.   jasonungar07
2008-08-16 23:07:56
50.   Deuce
Kemp had three choices:

-Run and hope the ball wasn't caught.

-Go to second and see what happens.

-Go back and tag up.

I think we all agree the first is really stupid. Option two is the right one if the runner reads that the ball is probably not going to be caught. Option three is good if the runner thinks the ball is going to be caught. If Cameron catches the ball (which he should have) we're saying Kemp made a good decision. He didn't make a dumb decision, it just didn't work out.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-08-16 23:10:04
51.   Chiron Brown
43 You're absolutely right, which is why there's no way Kemp would try to advance to 2nd if the ball was caught. Which means there is no reason for him to be standing on first waiting to see what's going to happen.
2008-08-16 23:10:46
52.   trainwreck
I believe it is illegal to go to bars in the Bay Area and not like "Don't Stop Believing."
2008-08-16 23:11:43
53.   Bob Hendley
49 NSFS (Not Safe for Shimmin)
2008-08-16 23:13:02
54.   Chiron Brown
So Phelps got his payday. Go U$A.
2008-08-16 23:13:41
55.   The Dude Abides
Shimmin? Not safe for anyone!
2008-08-16 23:14:42
56.   Xeifrank
Monday is a day off. Would you still give Martin and or Kent a day off, or are the games too important to worry about resting them with the off day on Monday?
vr, Xei
2008-08-16 23:15:01
57.   Jon Weisman
Kurt Streeter has a Kemp column in the Times, I'm sure written before tonight's game.,0,5128986.column

2008-08-16 23:15:24
58.   trainwreck
Come on, that video is hilarious: air keyboard, keyboard on the wall, the fact that no one in the band looks like they should be a rock star.
2008-08-16 23:17:10
59.   Bob Hendley
56 - Tough one. Do we know who is throwing for the Brewers?
2008-08-16 23:17:42
60.   dzzrtRatt
51 I don't think he was standing at first. He went halfway, and then tagged up.

And why not try to get into scoring position on an out in that situation? One out (Ethier's), Kent up next. Avoid a DP or score on a single. They can't walk Kent, but you knew they'd walk Manny if Kent struck out, say. So you're best chance is to score on a Kent hit. Need to be on second to do that.

2008-08-16 23:18:50
61.   Alex41592
56 - Kershaw vs. Suppan

Kent owns Suppan. Russ is 3 for 9.

2008-08-16 23:18:51
62.   Jacob Burch
"They're playing Journey?. There are a lot of girls with bad tattoos right now who are loving this. I know Jeff Kent is"

"You know, if there is a ninth inning rally, they're going to play this as the theme song until the the end."

Eric and Greg Brock.

This was the most heartbreaking loss I've been too, but I think it also made it the most enjoyable--it was quick, dramatic with some great plays.

The picnic was incredible, and special thank you to Eric Stephen for the ticket, BH and Karim for the food, Stephen for the ride, and Bob for the library tour. What a full, awesome day. My feet are beyond dead.

2008-08-16 23:18:54
63.   Deuce
59 Jeff Suppan. I say rest Martin. Play Kent, he's too hot to sit right now.
2008-08-16 23:20:55
64.   Xeifrank
60. Better yet, stand on 2nd base and the game is still going on right now. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-16 23:22:18
65.   Jon Weisman
If Jeff Kent read Dodger Thoughts, he would have a friend who could give him access to that study that says lineup protection doesn't matter. And then he could really take on Vin Scully!,0,2626262,full.column

2008-08-16 23:23:09
66.   Jon Weisman
I thought Brock was coming to the picnic today...
2008-08-16 23:23:25
67.   bhsportsguy
62 Bluebleeder was very bummed about the pitch that Kuo threw to Hardy.

It was great meeting and seeing all of you today.

The game had this strange feeling like 2 runs are not enough but the Brewers were not doing enough to drive in that tying run.

I told Greg Brock if Dodgers pulled it out, we would be forever reminded by Journey.

2008-08-16 23:24:54
68.   bhsportsguy
66 He was there and he played in the wiffle ball games. He got there just as Matt Luke was finishing up.
2008-08-16 23:25:07
69.   Deuce
64 True, but we could second guess many other plays. Why is Kuo throwing a slider to Hardy? Why didn't Either come in and try to catch Hardy's base hit? Why is Torre putting Berroa in the 9 hole? Why is Broxton nibbling to Durham with two out and nobody on? Etc...
2008-08-16 23:25:26
70.   alex 7
Has anyone stated yet that the ball bouncing off the wall was the LEAST likely result in that situation?

I think #50 explained it best. There is NO reason for Kemp to think that the ball might bounce off the wall. Honestly, Cameron had stopped running, was facing the infield, and looking straight up.

If I see a CF standing at the warning track, facing the IF, and looking up, I assume he's about to catch it, or it's a HR.

And Kemp easily makes it to 2nd if Cameron catches it.

2008-08-16 23:25:27
71.   Jacob Burch
66 He did =)
2008-08-16 23:26:02
72.   The Dude Abides
For anyone interested, NBC is showing the mens track 100 meters now.
2008-08-16 23:27:16
73.   Jon Weisman
68 - Man, that guy blends in.
2008-08-16 23:27:50
74.   Bob Hendley
63 - I am like Torre, I hate resting the Golden God, but I guess you are right. But wouldn't be surprised to to him at third, given that Monday is a day off.
2008-08-16 23:28:12
75.   Greg Brock
66 I'm very sneaky.

Great company at the game tonight. Jeez, make a play one time, Brewers outfield.

Oh, and Journey gets a gigantic thumbs down.

2008-08-16 23:28:34
76.   Jon Weisman
70 - I said it in my post up top, and others have as well.
2008-08-16 23:31:02
77.   The Dude Abides
I think people should also consider that running all the way back to first to tag up in that situation means that Andre could pass Bison on the basepath. I think Duncan should have told Bison to stand on second and wait to see what happens.
2008-08-16 23:32:17
78.   dzzrtRatt
How come they never use the Kinks at Dodger Stadium?
2008-08-16 23:34:42
79.   Alex41592
Regarding the upcoming race on NBC. got me on this race result this morning. If it's night time in Beijing and night time here in L.A there is a massive delay in showing the event.

2008-08-16 23:35:33
80.   Deuce
77 Duncan doesn't have any better of a look at the play then Kemp did. I think that's the runner's decision to make. But we don't know if Duncan yelled at Kemp to tag up. I would doubt it.
2008-08-16 23:35:33
81.   Xeifrank
FWIW, the Brewers blog really thought Kemp blew it too. Of course they used words that would violate Rule #1 to describe how dumb it was.
vr, Xei
2008-08-16 23:35:51
82.   Andrew Shimmin
At least they dropped the "Live," bug from the upper right hand corner. That was getting pretty insulting.
2008-08-16 23:36:37
83.   alex 7
calling it a night, but goodness what a game. Love to love baseball. Thanks all.
2008-08-16 23:36:53
84.   Bob Hendley
78 - Lola?
2008-08-16 23:37:12
85.   Greg Brock
82 You, sir, are a sharp-dressed man. I was right.
2008-08-16 23:38:00
86.   spacebrother
I was at the game too. What I think helped to jinx the whole mess was the booing of Eric Gagne. Very un-classy act by the fans. I doubt many of them were even aware of the Mitchell Report.

What I was hoping was that he would get a warm reception and tank by getting choked up. I noticed that he took a moment behind the mound before he started on the Dodger batters. The bad reception may have put him in a more aggressive mood than normal. I also noticed that he left the mound with his glove over his face almost all the way back to the dugout. Was he crying or cussing?

Pretty good game despite the loss.

2008-08-16 23:39:06
87.   jasonungar07
I can only watch like the first 1:27. I re watch it and dare myself to get past that part.

-5 seconds in, the band is playing Air instruments. One guy has white pants, other 2 with jean jackets. All in my 1987 collection.
-19 seconds in, skirt on hot chick all the way to knees. Aww I envy the youth of today.
-27 to 34 seconds in, Steve Perry love fest with himself.
-39 to 47, more Perry with profile views.
-58 Perry at ocean shore on dock in t-shirt tank top flexing and singing. Cut to all the band as a group playing air instruments, see guy on right doing his air drum/guitar thing with the sweet hair and stash
-124 to 127 After barley getting past Neal looking like Adam Corolla the 80's version, I See the guy playing the Keyboards on the wall and thats my breaking point.

How long can you go? 49

2008-08-16 23:39:42
88.   Deuce
[81} There are many situations in a baseball game that call for a quick decision. Sometimes a player makes the right one, sometimes not. Making a decision that doesn't work out is not necessarily "dumb."
2008-08-16 23:40:10
89.   Andrew Shimmin
Wonder how fast he would have gone if he hadn't thrown his hands out to the side, like that.
2008-08-16 23:41:18
90.   trainwreck
Are there pics of Shimmin up yet?
2008-08-16 23:43:16
91.   Greg Brock
Steve Perry is so intense in that video. He really feels it. And I respect that.
2008-08-16 23:43:30
92.   Bob Timmermann
9.68 is a scary time for the 100. Very scary.
2008-08-16 23:43:45
93.   Bob Hendley
87 - I got a little bit past that, thinking that the girl in the black leather skirt would do something. So you missed the part of Perry singing among stacks of iron things.
2008-08-16 23:44:31
94.   Bob Timmermann
Oh, it was 9.69. Well, that's not scary.
2008-08-16 23:46:17
95.   Bob Hendley
81 - How did they feel about Cameron not making the catch?
2008-08-16 23:47:24
96.   Deuce
Perry a geek, but had a heck of a voice.
2008-08-16 23:47:25
97.   The Dude Abides
I bet it would have been 9.60 or better. I remember at 1992 Barcelona, Quincy Watts would have obliterated the 400m world record in his semifinal heat, but he slowed up in the last 15 meters to a slow jog. If he had only slowed a little bit less, he would have had it.
2008-08-16 23:47:33
98.   debaser
Is there a home version of Bob's Dodger Trivia game? Or can the questions be posted on The Griddle perhaps?
2008-08-16 23:47:37
99.   Greg Brock
Somebody needs to tell keyboard player that there is no "cool" way to play the keyboard. Just play the thing, man.

I Viv Savage couldn't make it cool, nobody can.

2008-08-16 23:47:47
100.   Andrew Shimmin
85- Thanks. Next time I go to a DT event, though, I'll be picking up a pair of cargo shorts first. They were all over the place. I didn't realize that was such a popular thing. I like the idea of having more pockets, but am a little worried I'd just lose twice as much stuff, when sitting down.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-08-16 23:49:00
101.   The Dude Abides
Awesome interview. I love hearing Jamaican dudes talk. I bet this guy runs a 9.55 or better before his career is done.
2008-08-16 23:49:22
102.   bcg60
I can't really fault Kemp for his decision. I agree that it definitely was not dumb. As for Ethier not charging to catch the ball that ended up being the go ahead single, it reminded me a lot of a play last season where he did charge to try and make a similar catch and didn't make it. It ended up almost costing them the game and Grady took him out to the shed for a whipping after that game, so he may have been thinking of that play and decided to be more conservative about it. He drove in 2 of our runs and scored another and Matt contributed too, so on to the next game. If we win it's 2 out of 3 in the series.
2008-08-16 23:51:27
103.   Bob Hendley
63 - Actually Blake doesn't seem to hit very well in day games. Maybe he needs the rest.
2008-08-16 23:53:57
104.   Greg Brock
100 Where there are white people doing outdoorsy things, there will be cargo shorts.

Big ups to Who is Karim Garcia and BH. Very nicely put together.

2008-08-16 23:54:09
105.   Kevin Lewis

On tv it looked like Gagne was mouthing off to Kemp after the ball almost went out. He had the glove covering his face and his head turned and followed Kemp as he went by. Kemp looked like he didn't hear a word...if a word was even said.

2008-08-16 23:55:59
106.   Alex41592
Bolt ran the equivalent of starting at the back end of an end zone in football to the goal line of the opposing end zone in 9.69 seconds. Incomprehensible.
2008-08-16 23:57:21
107.   trainwreck
He could be the great kick returner ever.
2008-08-16 23:57:33
108.   trainwreck
2008-08-16 23:58:02
109.   spacebrother

I was looking at Gagne through binoculars. I didn't see Kemp going by. Maybe he wasn't talking to him at all. The Gagne appearance made me very quiet for some reason until the Dodgers loaded the bases the next time.

2008-08-16 23:59:16
110.   Alex41592
Also, Randy Johnson vs. Roy Oswalt in Houston tomorrow morning. At the very least that should be a better game than the first two.
2008-08-17 00:02:57
111.   Bob Hendley
104 So, did yawl call him Who for short?
2008-08-17 00:06:48
112.   Bob Hendley
65 That Kent sure is an ornery fellow. The again, Manny has sure been hitting better with Martin and WGJ hitting behind him.
2008-08-17 00:09:28
113.   xaphor
What a dandy of a Dodger filled day. It was great meeting up with everyone and although I'm sure they've heard it numerous times before, special thanks to bhsportsguy, the wiffle ball crew (don't worry bluebleeder, we'll get them next year), Bob for the library tour, scareduck and his wife for the great company at the game and of course Jon for tonight's tickets but most of all for bringing this community together.

BTW Bluebleeder, I have your bat, some wiffle balls and gloves you left at the park in my trunk. You can email me at xaphor {at} to set up a pick up/drop off or I can just bring them to the next get together.

2008-08-17 00:09:45
114.   ucladodger
A little late and I know this has already been stated, but i could not believe Cameron didn't catch the ball. Maybe it was the fact that the Brewers outfield played the best defensive game I've ever seen from an entire outfield unit, but I didnt think there was any way Cameron would not catch it unless it went 3 feet over. If thats what Kemp was thinking also, then his play was smart. If Cameron does catch the ball and Kemp ends up on 2nd base he gets praised for his great baserunning. If the ball goes over the fence it doesnt matter. In the 1% of the time neither of those events happens he looks like a fool and will get ridiculed.

Matt probably should have been at second when the ball came down, but again, if he made the decision that the ball was either out of the yard or caught, he did make the right play. Unfortunately we were 2 inches from a home run on 2 occasions that would have won the game. But, even after all of that, I feel very confident about this team. I cant see the DBacks continuing this offensive barrage, and i just think we are a flat out better squad. hopefully I'll be proven right over the next month.

2008-08-17 00:16:48
115.   Xeifrank
In the 1% of the time neither of those events happens

Only 1%?
vr, Xei

2008-08-17 00:23:58
116.   ucladodger

From the way Cameron went after that ball, it looked like he had it, and thats just from our angle on TV. On the field when you know a guy like Cammy is in center and you see him with that beat on the ball, the only way you think the ball hits the ground is if it gets over the fence. The Brewers were also playing no doubles defense so they were deeper than normal, which increases the chances of that catch even more. Obviously there is no way to calculate the percentages of that exact play happening, but the ball hitting the fence and coming back in was the last thought I had at the time. The chances of that happening in that defensive situation what that centerfielder are pretty slim.

2008-08-17 00:29:58
117.   Linkmeister
Are there picnic photos posted somewhere? Like Flickr?
2008-08-17 00:34:18
118.   Andrew Shimmin
ToyCannon posted his.

I'm in this one, in the Croatian checkered jersey:

2008-08-17 00:35:24
119.   Alex41592
Kemp is blaming himself for what happened.

He has let mistakes in the past affect him, so we all hope he can put it behind him.

2008-08-17 00:35:47
120.   dzzrtRatt
96 I had a more sneering attitude toward Journey until Bob Dylan himself endorsed Steve Perry's voice. Then I started listening to them more closely. Bobby's right. So for a handful of songs, Journey was good because Steve Perry's great voice can make overwrought arena-rock philosophy sound good.
2008-08-17 01:09:27
121.   JJ42
Got back from the game in Rancho Cucamonga (after a stop in Fullerton to watch the OC Flyers). It was great meeting everyone at the picnic and playing some great wiffle ball - we had some great outfielders who knew how to play that tree!

I'll try to post my photos from the picnic tomorrow after the last leg of the "baseball weekend" - 6 games, 6 parks, 48 hours (yes, I'm counting the wiffle ball game in Elysian Park now).

2008-08-17 03:59:34
122.   FirstMohican
100, 104 - Bummer I couldn't make it. I had my cargo shorts on and everything. But I had to work (for the Dodger game, no less!).
2008-08-17 06:14:25
123.   Ken Noe
Watching on TV, Bison made the right call to tag up. I thought Cameron had it, and as Jon said, that defense had been spectacular. Plus, you don't take the bat out of Manny's hands. If Manny makes contact, the conversation becomes very different. In the end, no blame, just baseball.

I'm wearing cargo shorts today.

2008-08-17 06:38:18
124.   D4P
I wear cargo shorts almost every day I leave the house, at least during the spring, summer, and fall. When winter rolls around, I break out the cargo pants.
2008-08-17 07:05:36
125.   StolenMonkey86
4 ,6 - You don't vote for Upper Class Twit of the year - you compete for it.

2008-08-17 08:13:39
126.   Jon Weisman
For highlights from last night's game, follow this link and then click on the "featured video" tab below the screen.

2008-08-17 08:47:55
127.   Michael Green
Sorry I'm a bit late to this dance, but my two cents:

1. If the fan had interfered and it had gone against us somehow, a lot of Dodger fans would be demanding that the guy be killed.

2. If Kemp had run and Cameron had caught the ball, he would have been doubled off and the writers probably would have depicted it as another example of his head not being in the game, his inexperience, blah, blah, blah.

It's more fun this morning to ask who is the bigger idiot: Kent or Simers?

2008-08-17 09:08:07
128.   Bob Timmermann
From my viewpoint on the Field Level down the right field line (thanks to Eric Stephen), I couldn't see exactly what was happening with Kemp since we could only keep Cameron in our field of view.

When I looked back to the field after the ball came back in, I thought it was Ethier running into second. Then I noticed it was a big guy wearing 27 so I was a little confused. I really couldn't judge.

I don't see why people thought the fans in the LF corner should have interfered with Kapler. It wouldn't have been a matter of being a Steven Bartman and catching a ball coming to you. The fans would have to have physically gone after Kapler. And Kapler is not a little guy. Also, this isn't the 1890s.

2008-08-17 09:13:19
129.   MollyKnight
Even if it was a baserunning gaffe, Kemp didn't cost us the game. Last night I was watching him with two strikes in the tenth and thinking how far he has come this season. Earlier this year he would have struck out on a pitch in the dirt. Now he's battling, working the count, and hitting lasers to right field.

His improvement has been remarkable.

2008-08-17 09:18:56
130.   MollyKnight
I saw a shirt once that had a gal crying with the slogan "Don't Stop Bereaving."

Now I sing that to myself whenever I hear the song.

2008-08-17 09:25:33
131.   D4P
I've been trying to figure out whether Kemp is better this year than last year. Compared to last year,

His BA is lower
His OBP is lower
His SLG is lower
His K% is higher
His IsoP is lower

On the bright side,

His BB% is higher
His BB/K is higher

A big consideration is that his BABIP is lower this year, despite a higher LD%.

2008-08-17 09:31:48
132.   Xeifrank
127. Once again, nobody is saying that Kemp should've been "running". We/I are/am saying that he should've gone to second base and waited the result, so he couldn't have been doubled off first base. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-17 09:32:32
133.   regfairfield
118 And the tradition of me looking terrible in every photo I take continues.
2008-08-17 09:39:28
134.   Bob Hendley
119 - Bison takes one for the team. Of all the critical plays, such as Durham's BB and Either not going for the ball, this actually seems minor. In the end, he was in scoring position where he needed to be with Kent and Manny due up.
2008-08-17 09:40:35
135.   mintxcore
Am I the only Whiffle Baller to wake up this morning totally and utterly sore? Those pics are a great start, can't wait to see JJ42s!
2008-08-17 09:44:13
136.   D4P
Nice Adidas. Are those the kind I used to wear as a kid with all the little rubber "spikes" on the bottom...?
2008-08-17 09:48:36
137.   Bob Timmermann
I didn't even play whiffle ball and I'm sore. But I've been on my feet and walking around a lot the past seven days.

I've been told that this physical activity thing is good for me.

2008-08-17 09:49:05
138.   Who Is Karim Garcia

Sadly enough, I'm sore all over as well. With that said, if we were having another picnic today, I'd be the first one there and the last one to leave.

2008-08-17 09:50:22
139.   D4P
I didn't even play whiffle ball and I'm sore

Keeping score can be rough. Paper cuts, bumps on your middle finger where the writing instrument rests, etc.

2008-08-17 10:04:53
140.   JJ42
Quick post before I head out on the final leg of the baseball weekend - to Dodger Stadium and then to Long Beach for the Armada.

Thank you Jon for creating this website and for everyone who made the picnic a GREAT time!

btw, I'm still surprised that nobody got hurt during the whiffle ball game - the ground was really sketchy. also, can you believe that we were heckled by a group of women for wearing Dodgers gear at Rancho Cucamonga, the Angels single A affiliate?

2008-08-17 10:09:52
141.   Who Is Karim Garcia
JJ42, sounds like a hell of a weekend, I'm jealous. Good timies!
2008-08-17 10:09:52
142.   Who Is Karim Garcia
JJ42, sounds like a hell of a weekend, I'm jealous. Good timies!
2008-08-17 10:13:38
143.   Jimi Shelter
Right. But another school of thought says that Matt's responsibility was to ensure that he ended up in scoring position for Kent and Manny. If the ball was caught, your way would have had Kemp back on first with two outs. With two outs, a runner on second with Matt's speed scores on almost any hit.

I see your point of view, but I'm surprised you can't see it from the other perspective too. Of course, given the outcome, your way would have been the best. But who knew?

2008-08-17 10:15:25
144.   Brad Pennys Alter Ego
Living in Houston, I have to watch on Unfortunately, I got the Brewers broadcast last night. The announcers said absolutely nothing about Cameron not catching that ball, but were berating Kemp for only being at 2B.

They were equally rough on Ethier for not going after the hit in the 10th.

2008-08-17 10:16:28
145.   Bumsrap
133 And the tradition of me looking terrible in every photo I take continues.

That's typically what happens when you hold the camera backwards.

2008-08-17 10:27:54
146.   mintxcore

There needs to be a DT Whiffle Ball league!

2008-08-17 10:47:05
147.   D4P
Freddy Sanchez is batting 3rd for the Pirates, behind Jack Wilson.
2008-08-17 10:56:44
148.   Alex41592
Josh Beckett is getting lit up at home by the Blue Jays.
2008-08-17 10:57:19
149.   Icaros

My powers of inductive reasoning lead me to believe that Wilson is then batting second.

2008-08-17 11:02:43
150.   Tripon
131 What we're seeing from Kemp is what we'd see if Kemp played a full year last year. You might argue that Kemp's was a better player last year, but I'd argue that Kemp numbers were unrealistic last year for a 22 year old still learning the game.

Kemp 2007 was a bolt from the blue.

Kemp 2008 is closer than what Kemp can actually produce over a 162 game season.

Kemp 2009 is going to win the MVP, Gold Glove, and Silver Slugger award. =P

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-08-17 11:04:22
151.   D4P
That must have taken the Power of Grayskull.
2008-08-17 11:04:59
152.   Tripon
144 Biggest problem I have with other teams broadcasts is the blanket homerism.
2008-08-17 11:06:49
153.   Bluebleeder87

the gloves aren't mine & the wiffle ball stuff you can keep for next time, I think the gloves are Kevin Lewis & Lexinthedena

Lex & Kevin check your trunks I think you forgot you gloves.

2008-08-17 11:08:11
154.   Tripon
The D'Backs-Astros game is delayed for some reason, despite being played in a Dome.
2008-08-17 11:09:38
155.   D4P
There's some kind of "ceremony".
2008-08-17 11:12:50
156.   Bob Timmermann
Craig Biggio's number is being retired.

The Astros don't play in a dome actually. They play in a stadium with a retractable roof.

2008-08-17 11:18:27
157.   Tripon
What happened to Casey Kotchman? Its like he fell off the map once he moved to the Braves.
2008-08-17 11:23:12
158.   Alex41592
From ITD:

Kemp, CF

Ethier, RF

Kent, 2B

Manny, LF

Loney, 1B

Martin, C

Blake, 3B

Berroa, SS

Kershaw, P

2008-08-17 11:25:02
159.   Bob Timmermann
The first time since Memorial Day weekend that none of the national TV broadcasts (Fox, ESPN, and TBS) involve the Yankees or Red Sox.

Maintain calm.

2008-08-17 11:25:44
160.   Alex41592
FWIW, Berroa is 4 for 9 lifetime against Suppan.
2008-08-17 11:26:28
161.   Tripon
159 But we been getting Angels games on national broadcast for the last month or two. They just changed the national flavor
2008-08-17 11:27:07
162.   Tripon
160 Or Nomar is hurt again.
2008-08-17 11:28:16
163.   Alex41592
162 - Or it's just a routine day off.
2008-08-17 11:29:21
164.   Alex41592
Hey, D'Backs don't score in the first!
2008-08-17 11:31:05
165.   Tripon
163 Or Jeff Kent went on a murderous rage, and now the Dodgers have to hide the bodies.
2008-08-17 11:34:01
166.   Jon Weisman
2008-08-17 11:34:41
167.   Bob Timmermann
So what's wrong with the Angels being shown on national TV? They do have the best record in the majors. They play in a big media market. The Angels-Indians game was likely scheduled before the season started in anticipation of being it a matchup of two playoff contenders.

ESPN2 is going to show Wednesday's Angels-Rays game.

I'm not certain why the Angels appearances on national TV disturb you, but on my list of things to be concerned this is right below wondering if a certain guy in Altoona, Pennsylvania got a new microwave at a Wal-Mart.

2008-08-17 11:39:52
168.   dodgerkramer1
Jon: I love Matt Kemp just as much as you do. But please be rational: He should have been standing on 2nd base (or at least near the bag) when Cameron failed to catch that ball.

As it was, Kemp was backtracking and standing closer to first base when the ball fell. It was terrible baserunning, and everyone knows that.

Of course it doesn't mean Kemp should be benched, but it WAS a mistake on his part. Don't let your fear of Kemp being punished cloud your judgment.

2008-08-17 12:05:15
169.   Bluebleeder87

it's probably an adjusting period thing for him. Some guys are better than others with that stuff.

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