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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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His Imminence, Greg Maddux
2008-08-18 22:26
by Jon Weisman

The wait (if you were waiting) is all but over. Greg Maddux, baseball pitching legend and guru-in-action, benefactor of large parks and fine defenses, is unofficially on his way to the Dodgers for a player or players to be identified in times hence.

I've written about this before: Petco Park has been hiding some of Maddux's decline, leaving him arguably no better than the Dodgers whose innings he will take. That doesn't mean he can't or won't help, any more than we know whether the trade will be worth it while we're ignorant of whom the Dodgers gave up.

Comments (254)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-08-18 22:33:33
1.   Tripon
Can't wait for the first Maddux-Manny story.
2008-08-18 22:34:10
2.   Greg Brock
I am whelmed.
2008-08-18 22:35:18
3.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Do we know if the Pads are picking up his salary too?
2008-08-18 22:39:15
4.   KG16
2 - I am less than whelmed
2008-08-18 22:39:20
5.   Tripon
A Hannah Montana ad? What evil is this?
2008-08-18 22:40:36
6.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Some part of me hates engaging in the type of conversation that my question will certainly commence, but does anyone think that the mere fact that they went out and acquired Maddux (Manny and Casey, for that matter as well) will have a positive effect on our players...

maddux + manny + blake - andruw = chemistry = wins.

Somewhere, the phrase "heart and soul" is going to be used and I will be ashamed I even asked this question.

2008-08-18 22:43:51
7.   Alex41592
In the we'll never see it again category:

Manny Ramirez vs. Greg Maddux:

2 for 11 with a double.

2008-08-18 22:44:23
8.   KG16
i hate nights like this. i really feel like i should be writing, but i just can't bring myself to do anything productive.
2008-08-18 22:44:57
9.   Greg Brock
Man, I forgot that Bill Haverchuck's mom was a total fox.
2008-08-18 22:48:24
10.   Alex41592
Did you all know that the rights to "Love and Marriage" were not obtained to the DVD's of Married with Children season three and beyond.

Hence, this:

Imagine if your favorite T.V show lost it's theme song. No sir I will not!

2008-08-18 22:50:01
11.   Linkmeister
Who's Bill Haverchuck? Do I want to know?

Maddux can't do much worse than a sore-armed Penny, I shouldn't think.

2008-08-18 22:50:56
12.   KG16
10 - that just makes me weep, if you know, i had tear ducts.
2008-08-18 22:54:25
13.   silverwidow
Just a guess:

Xavier Paul and Justin Orenduff or Greg Miller.

2008-08-18 22:54:48
14.   Linkmeister
Gad. I'd forgotten how grotesque that opening sequence with the cigarette butts is.
2008-08-18 22:55:42
15.   Greg Brock
2008-08-18 22:57:57
16.   Louis in SF
Just simple math, when Penny and Wade went on the DL, Stultz and Sturytz came up, Tanyon was added to the 40 man roster. I hope the Dodgers are not doing something very stupid in acquiring Maddox for what will amount to 6 starts. I am assuming that he will not pitch in Arizona if his spot comes up, and am also doubtful about Coors. Can't get a handle on who the Minor Leaguers will be, but someone has got to come of the 40 man roster and I don't see the Pads taking Tanyon has part of this deal. Wade is also supposed to come off the DL this weekend.
2008-08-18 22:59:46
17.   Who Is Karim Garcia

You have to be kidding me.

2008-08-18 23:03:20
18.   Eric Enders
11 The question isn't whether he'd do better than a sore-armed Penny, but better than James McDonald. It's not a coincidence that this deal happened the day after Ned traveled to Las Vegas and saw McDonald get torched in person. I'm guessing that after he saw that, he decided to give in after all and give the Padres the caliber of prospect they'd been asking for all along.

X Paul is a decent guess. The Padres like college players now, so it could also be somebody like Pedroza or Orenduff.

2008-08-18 23:04:46
19.   Eric Enders
16 I'd guess Sturtze will be DFAed and sent back to Vegas if no one claims him.
2008-08-18 23:06:38
20.   silverwidow
17 Greg "out of options" Miller will never make the Dodgers with his horrible command. The ship has sailed, unfortunately.

Paul is a good OF prospect who also doesn't fit into the teams plans.

2008-08-18 23:07:38
21.   Eric Stephen
Stults could be sent back down for Maddux. And Strutze or JJJ could be waived when Wade comes back.
2008-08-18 23:09:15
22.   silverwidow
This seems pretty obvious:

*Stults optioned
*Proctor to 60-day to make room for Maddux

2008-08-18 23:10:57
23.   Alex41592
21 - I figured they would option Stults back as well, but they still need to clear a 40 man spot for Maddux.

Also, if Furcal comes off the DL you have to clear room for him off the 40 man as well, correct?

2008-08-18 23:12:05
24.   Eric Enders
20 Paul is a mediocre prospect, but he'd probably be an ideal fifth outfielder. We'd miss him next year in that he can fill the Jason Repko role a lot better than Jason Repko can.
2008-08-18 23:12:22
25.   Alex41592
22 - There we go. Proctor went on the DL June 22nd so it would be easy to 60 day him.
2008-08-18 23:12:32
26.   Eric Stephen
Yes, someone will need to be moved to the 60-day DL (Saito?) or DFA'd if Furcal comes back.
2008-08-18 23:13:58
27.   Eric Enders
23 Yes, but when Furcal comes back the room could be created by DFAing Berroa. You don't need 3 guys on the 25-man roster who play shortstop only.
2008-08-18 23:15:08
28.   grady44
Maddux vs. Kuroda; Fairly Similar:

Kuroda 7-8 3.88 1.22 (5.6 k/9) (2.1 bb/9) (0.7 hr/9)

Maddux 6-9 3.99 1.22 (4.7 k/9) (1.5 bb/9) (0.9 hr/9)

Those are pretty similar numbers.

On another note, one of the things I remember from Maddux '06 was that he was on a limited pitch count, only going 5-6 innings. I wonder what effect this is going to have on the bullpen, that has already show some wear the last few days sans Cory Wade. Anyone have access to how many pitches he's averaged per start? I know he's averaged 5.9 IP per start. I guess the question is will he save the bullpen more than Stults, Johnson, or McDonald?

2008-08-18 23:15:41
29.   Eric Enders
28 Severe ballpark differences.
2008-08-18 23:17:47
30.   Eric Enders
28 Maddux has averaged 79.6 pitches per start.
2008-08-18 23:17:49
31.   Tripon
27 You're assuming that Furcal comes back before Sept 1.
2008-08-18 23:20:16
32.   Eric Enders
31 No, September 1 has nothing to do with what I was talking about. It's the 40-man roster spot that's an issue, not the 25-man roster spot.
2008-08-18 23:20:33
33.   grady44

This is true. Although I would have thought that the biggest effect Petco would have had would have been to keep the HR down. However, he's actually allowed 9 HR at Petco (0.9 hr/9) and 7 HR away from Petco (also 0.9 hr/9).

2008-08-18 23:21:09
34.   Eric Stephen
ESPN Radio host Andy Gresh is making the point right now that CC Sabathia is the NL MVP, but Brandon Webb is Cy Young.

How can CC (a) win MVP playing ~3 months, and (b) win MVP but not win Cy Young?

Gresh said Sabathia wins MVP, but can't win Cy Young because he hasn't been there all year. My head just exploded.

2008-08-18 23:27:25
35.   grady44

Also: Maddux BABIP splits (if I figured them out with with late night math):

HOME: .236
AWAY: .353
TOTAL: .291

I guess either way, I believe it comes down to who was going to tax the bullpen the worst. With McDonald probably being on a IP limit (already at 134 ip), I'd think that Maddux is the best option out of Maddux/Stults/Jason Johnson.

2008-08-18 23:27:49
36.   Eric Enders
Didn't Maddux have a gigantic difference between his home and road performances the first time around with the Dodgers?
2008-08-18 23:30:45
37.   Eric Enders
36 Looking it up, it was 1.91 home, 4.75 road. Sample size is so small that it probably means nothing.
2008-08-18 23:32:28
38.   Tripon
A Dodgers fan on the ESPN boards is guessing James Adkins.
2008-08-18 23:33:44
39.   Eric Enders
I would be disappointed if it were Adkins.
2008-08-18 23:49:21
40.   Landonkk
I apologize if this was discussed in a previous thread, but Andruw hit 2 HR's in Vegas tonight. How is it that this guy can rake in AAA but look like a little leaguer in the bigs?
2008-08-18 23:53:32
41.   Greg Brock
40 There are dozens of players that rake in AAA and can't hit in the bigs. Hence, the "Quadruple A" tag.

Maybe Andruw Jones has just become Val Pascucci.

2008-08-18 23:53:51
42.   sporky
I go out for a while, and Greg Maddux is a Dodger.
2008-08-18 23:55:58
43.   CanuckDodger
39 -- I could live with losing Adkins. I bet we are going to lose somebody I prize more highly than Adkins. Probably two people I prize more highly than Adkins.
2008-08-18 23:57:28
44.   milkshakeballa
I custom made a Maddux Dodger jersey in 06' to wear to game 4 against the mets and had great tickets for the first two home games in the NLCS. Let's just say, I was thoroughly disappointed I wasn't able to wear it.

But it looks like I will be able to now though!

2008-08-19 00:01:08
45.   Jacob Burch
43 Pure curiosity -- around how many players do you prize higher than Adkins? Its been a while since I've seen a bonafide Canuck depth chart, and I'm sorely missing it.
2008-08-19 00:12:57
46.   sporky
How exactly do the PTBNL rules work? Anyone not on the 25 man that both teams agree to?
2008-08-19 00:13:43
47.   CanuckDodger
45 -- In the 12 to 15 range, probably. Between the players who have "graduated" this year, and the people we have traded away, our farm is looking shakier than it has in some time.
2008-08-19 00:18:37
48.   sporky
Kershaw on the trade:

>>Although Kershaw is a power lefty and Maddux is a command and control righty, the rookie plans on learning all he can from Maddux.

"If he does get to come, I definitely would ask him as many questions as I can," Kershaw said. "Hopefully he likes answering questions, because I'm definitely going to be doing a lot of that.

"He obviously has a lot to teach. He's been out there so long. He knows a lot more about the game than I do right now, so I'm definitely going to just try to listen to him, pick his brain."<<

2008-08-19 00:20:51
49.   Eric Enders
46 That, and it has to be completed within six months. Usually the team receiving the PTBNL is given a list of a handful of players and allowed to pick which one they want after scouting them for a while.

The PTBNL normally can be on the 25-man roster, but the rule is he has to switch leagues, so in this specific case it would have to be someone not on the active roster.

2008-08-19 00:24:12
50.   Alex41592
From L.A Times:

"The Dodgers will be paying at least a part of the remaining portion of Maddux's contract, making him the first of four trade acquisitions this season whose entire salary isn't being picked up by his former club."

So, the two PTBNL can't be of much significance if we're paying some money.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-08-19 00:25:15
51.   silverwidow
DeJesus is turning into a beast at Jacksonville. A 4-for-5 night brings his line to:


68 walks
14 steals in 16 attempts

He is the YOUNGEST player on the team.

2008-08-19 00:28:38
52.   Eric Enders
I wonder if he's the youngest player in the league. He's probably close to it, at least.
2008-08-19 00:31:10
53.   bhsportsguy

1. Deal must be complete within 6 months of trade.
2. Player(s) cannot have played in the same league at the time of the trade.

Rule 2 means that in trades within the same league, the player to be named later cannot be on the active roster at the time of the trade.

The usual procedure is the trading team provides a list of players that the receiving team uses to make its choice.

If the player is on the 40 man roster, he must clear waivers or they will wait until after the season to make the trade. If the player is not on the 40 man roster, that player does not need to clear waivers.

2008-08-19 00:31:15
54.   CanuckDodger
48 -- God, I hate that expression: "pick his brain." Whenever I hear it, or read it, I immediately think of the assassination of Leon Trotsky (he was stabbed in the head with an ice pick).
2008-08-19 00:32:38
55.   Eric Enders
Whenever I hear it, I think of picking one's nose but going a little too deep.
2008-08-19 00:36:55
56.   Ken Noe
Tim Brown: "According to a source familiar with the trade, the Dodgers will pay "a small portion" of the approximately $2.25 million owed Maddux over the season's final month-and-a-half. In return, the Padres will choose at least one player from a list of five or six, none on the Dodgers' major-league roster."
2008-08-19 00:41:49
57.   silverwidow
I wonder if Furcal is a good comp for DeJesus?

Age 21:

Furcal (A/A+): .322/.387/.389
DeJesus (AA): .315/.411/.410

Not much power but really good hitters who could work the count. Biggest difference is Furcal had an incredible 96 SBs that year.

2008-08-19 00:42:12
58.   sporky
49 53 Thanks. I can't imagine it's anyone above the Paul/Repko/Orenduff/Miller threshold.

55 Me, too. It actually reminds me of mummification, but that involves a hook, not a pick.

2008-08-19 00:43:08
59.   silverwidow
57 That's actually Raffy's age 20 season, my mistake.
2008-08-19 00:48:01
60.   silverwidow
Wait, now I'm confused. Baseball Reference has his D.O.B. as 10/24/77, but their minor league page has it as 10/24/78
2008-08-19 00:49:15
61.   silverwidow
If it's really 1977, then 57 is correct.
2008-08-19 00:49:33
62.   Eric Enders
59 There's almost a six-month difference in their birthdays, so that was about as good a comp season as you could get anyway. They were about 6.2 months apart in age during those seasons.
2008-08-19 00:52:54
63.   Eric Enders
Baseball America's handy-dandy Agegate chart says the 1977 date is correct for Furcal.

Disregard 62 , since it was based on the incorrect date listed on his minor league BB-Ref page.

2008-08-19 01:58:03
64.   LAT
41 41. Greg Brock
40 There are dozens of players that rake in AAA and can't hit in the bigs. Hence, the "Quadruple A" tag.
Maybe Andruw Jones has just become Val Pascucci

. . . or Andy LaRoche.

2008-08-19 02:00:20
65.   LAT
I will live in fear for the rest of the season that Maddux will do to us what Glavine did to the Mets the final day of 2007.
2008-08-19 02:07:36
66.   LAT
From the previous thread: JDSUniphase rides again. Dividands to follow.
2008-08-19 02:46:54
67.   bhsportsguy
If the Dodgers don't change their rotation plans, Maddux will start on the following dates:

8/23 - @ Philadelphia
8/28 - @ Washington D.C.
9/2 - San Diego
9/8 - @ San Diego
9/14 - @ Colorado
9/19 - San Francisco
9/25 - San Diego

2008-08-19 05:06:56
68.   Eric Enders
The @Philly and @Colorado dates are downright scary. The rest of it looks ideal.
2008-08-19 05:58:07
69.   StolenMonkey86
From the last thread:

376, 386 - Passage ... out?

2008-08-19 06:51:13
70.   Daniel Zappala
Does Maddux have plans to retire after this season?
2008-08-19 06:59:02
71.   Ken Noe
Did Ned wait to long? Two weeks ago, he might have gotten Maddux for Falkenborg and his "exploding" fastball. But now we wait....
2008-08-19 07:12:46
72.   Disabled List
Of course, I'm going to the 8/23 game in Philly. Kershaw was originally in line for that game (against Hamels!), but Penny's DL stint moved everyone up a day.

Maddux last pitched on Friday against the Phils, although it was at Petco Park and not Citizens Bank Launching Pad. He did pretty well, going 7 IP, allowing only 5 hits and taking a hard-luck loss on a 7th inning solo HR to Pat Burrell.

Maddux's next start was scheduled to be Thursday, so I'm hoping he ends up pitching at home against Colorado that day. That would put Lowe in Philadelphia on Friday and Kershaw on Saturday.

2008-08-19 07:28:50
73.   tethier
72 I'm going to the game on Friday night so I'm hoping the rotation stays as is. However, it would not surprise me to see them insert Maddux at DS on Thursday so he avoids the "launching pad."
2008-08-19 07:28:56
74.   Paul Scott
I am sure some of you have already done this, but here is a list of the DIFFERENCES in schedule between AZI and LAD for the remainder of the season:

AZI: FLAx3, StLx3, CINx3, SFx1, @StLx4

LAD: SDx3, @PHIx4, @WASx3, @PITx4

In all other respects, the schedule is identical (plus 6 HtH games, split evenly at three at each stadium).

2008-08-19 07:33:20
75.   Eric Stephen
A local sports radio guy here in SD just said Brad Penny and Larry the Cable Guy look alike. It's hard to disagree with that!

Although I don't think Dan Whitney could have pulled Alyssa Milano.

2008-08-19 07:48:30
76.   ibleedbloo
72 Not to be selfish, but I'm flying out of Ontario very early Friday morning and it will make my trip a lot easier if the pay off is watching Clayton pitch that night; no offense D-Lowe, I should see you on Tuesday against the Nats.

Come to think about it though, if Maddux plans on beginning round 2 of his Dodger career the same way he began round one, I wouldn't be very disappointed watching him shut down the Phils in person…minus the rain, of course.

2008-08-19 08:00:24
77.   Disabled List
73 , 76 Come on, you guys! Maddux has been horrible on the road this year, let's give him a nice comfy home game on Thursday. That'll allow Derek Lowe to throw lots of groundballs at the Artillery Test Range in Philadelphia on Friday, and Kershaw vs. Hamels in the Fox Game of the Week on Saturday. It's a win-win situation for everybody!

(The fact that I have tickets to Saturday's game has in no way influenced my opinion on this.)

2008-08-19 08:08:26
78.   Sam PHL
77 - No! I'm going Friday and Monday, and was thrilled when I saw Kershaw and Billingsley slated to pitch. But Maddux throws everything off. I'm hoping to see one of them at least...
2008-08-19 08:11:55
79.   D4P
I'd like to think that if I were Michael Phelps, I wouldn't shill for all the products and services he's probably gonna shill for in exchange for the $100 million he's gonna make.

But it would be tough to turn down.

2008-08-19 08:15:32
80.   Gen3Blue
I admit I haven't been paying much attention to the Maddox situation lately, and I am not sure why San Diego seems anxious to trade him. I would assume it is about saving money, or that the Pads have five better starters. Is there something more to it?
2008-08-19 08:15:47
81.   Sushirabbit
I like His Imminence and all, but my first thought at reading this: It's going to be a crazy winter.

The Dodgers are going to be in a very bad position because of Schmidt, Jones, and Pierre. Free Agents are Nomar, Kent, Furcal, Penny, Lowe, Blake, Manny. Right?

2008-08-19 08:20:25
82.   Eric Stephen
It's primarily a cost saving move. If they can save $500k to $1m (depending on how much of the ~$2.25m the Dodgers are paying) they will do it.

Also, they will be adding two prospects that will at least add depth to their farm system.

2008-08-19 08:21:23
83.   Eric Stephen
Penny has a club option at $9.25m, with a $2m buyout, so there's a chance he won't be a free agent just yet.
2008-08-19 08:22:04
84.   Jon Weisman
Rosenthal finally made something of a contribution:

2008-08-19 08:28:13
85.   Eric Stephen
Maddux will almost certainly be at least a Type B free agent (he was a Type A last year, and there's a small chance he could repeat that), but I doubt the Dodgers will offer him arbitration.

Really the only two places Maddux would sign to play are LA and San Diego, and I doubt the Padres would sign Maddux if they had to give up their 2nd round draft pick (their 1st rounder will be too high to surrender).

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if Maddux accepted arbitration. The best case scenario is for Maddux to be a Type B free agent so he can sign with the Padres and net a supplemental draft pick for the Dodgers.

2008-08-19 08:35:18
86.   Who Is Karim Garcia

Anyone with a Santana statistical update? He was older for he league he was playing in so my wonder was if his value was a bit inflated.

2008-08-19 08:37:17
87.   regfairfield
85 Giving Maddux 10 million when we've got five big holes next year is pretty close to the worst thing in the world.
2008-08-19 08:37:54
88.   Gen3Blue
82 Thanks Eric.
2008-08-19 08:38:01
89.   Eric Stephen
Santana has made a Smooth transition to the Hi-Class A Kinston Indians, hitting .368/.442/.605 in 19 games.
2008-08-19 08:38:08
90.   natepurcell
If he is a type B, you don't have to offer arb to get the draft pick.
2008-08-19 08:38:32
91.   regfairfield
86 .368/.442/.605 with 14 strike outs in 76 at bats for Cleveland. It's probably too late for a promotion to mean anything.
2008-08-19 08:39:26
92.   Eric Stephen
I forgot Beimel as well. He will be a free agent as well, probably a Type B.
2008-08-19 08:40:27
93.   MollyKnight
Could the Dodgers have blocked Dunn from going to the DBacks without picking up the tab on his salary? If not, then we know why they didn't do it.

Whether he's cash poor or he simply doesn't want to give Ned any more of his money to light on fire, the message is clear: no more salaries in 08.

2008-08-19 08:42:09
94.   regfairfield
93 It's reported we're taking on some of Maddux's salary.

I still think the odds of the Reds saying "here, have Adam Dunn and two draft picks, we don't want them" were near zero.

2008-08-19 08:44:02
95.   Eric Stephen
That's not true. Per Article B(4)(c) of the MLB Collective Bargaining Agreement:

A Type A or B Player shall be subject to compensation only if (i) he signs a contract with another Club prior to December 1; or(ii) he is offered salary arbitration by his former Club on or before December 1 pursuant to Section B(3) of this Article XX and signs a contract with another Club

2008-08-19 08:44:22
96.   D4P
I agree. There was no risk associated with blocking Dunn.

The problem with expecting Ned to block Dunn is that such an expectation assumes that Ned would believe that Dunn would help the DBacks, when in fact, it's more likely that Ned thinks Dunn will hurt them.

2008-08-19 08:50:46
97.   bhsportsguy
How come no one is asking why didn't the D-Backs put a claim in on Maddux?

I mean, if the Dodgers claim him, so be it, but if they don't, the D-Backs claim him, the Padres would probably have to pull him back because he has a no-trade clause (similar to Giles) and then the Dodgers can't get him.

2008-08-19 08:51:41
98.   Paul Scott
85 Type B no longer result in losses, only in gains.
2008-08-19 08:52:14
99.   Ken Noe
Kim: "Should we put a claim on Dunn?"
Ned: "Gee what would we do with another outfielder? Pierre's agent keeps calling me as it is."
Kim: "Okay, should we put a claim on Maddux?"
Ned: "No, let's wait to see if we need a starter down the stretch."
Kim: "But if we do that, won't the Padres be able to ask for more?"
Ned: {sigh}.
2008-08-19 08:54:27
100.   regfairfield
97 What's the rules if the team has the same record?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-08-19 08:54:28
101.   Eric Stephen
I wasn't clear in that 2nd paragraph of 85 , but I meant that's what the Padres would give up if Maddux was a Type A. That's why I mentioned the best case would be for Maddux to be a Type B free agent, so the Padres could sign him without giving up anything but cash.
2008-08-19 08:55:30
102.   Paul Scott
93 Dunn for 2 months plus 2 high draft picks is easily worth $3.5M. Bottom line is we were just stupid. There was no possibility of a bad outcome from us putting a claim in on Dunn.
2008-08-19 08:58:02
103.   wronghanded
If we do qualify for the playoffs, I'm wondering how our rotation will shape up.


2008-08-19 08:59:06
104.   Dodgers49
From previous thread:

414 408 I realize's just the quick way to figure the magic number.

Let's look at the end of the 1996 NL West. Going into the final 3 games of the season (Padres at Dodger Stadium), the Dodgers held a 2 game lead, 90-69. The Padres were 88-71. At that point, the Padres' magic number was 6 (Dodgers could finish 93-69, so the Padres needed 6 wins to beat 93), meaning they had to sweep to win the division. Which of course they did.

Actually, the Padres' magic number was 2. Why 2? Because the magic number is determined with reference to the team at the top of the standings. Which in this case was the Dodgers. And any combination of Dodgers wins and/or Padres losses totaling 2 would have eliminated San Diego. So if one had looked at the standings at the beginning of that series the number in the Magic Number column opposite San Diego would have been a 2.

2008-08-19 09:01:10
105.   D4P
Bottom line is we were just stupid

In more ways than one. Like I said: it's very unlikely that Ned thinks Dunn is a good player. Ned probably thought he was being strategic by not blocking Dunn.

2008-08-19 09:01:26
106.   Paul Scott
104 No. You are confusing magic number with elimination number.
2008-08-19 09:01:31
107.   Eric Stephen
That's not right at all. 2 was their "tragic number". :)
2008-08-19 09:02:31
108.   bhsportsguy
100 If they use the regular tiebreakers, the first thing would be head to head.

I suppose they could use something like which team last made a waiver claim.

Again, those types of rules are hidden like the City of Atlantis.

2008-08-19 09:08:48
109.   MollyKnight
What's the difference betwixt Dunn's and Maddux's salary this year?
2008-08-19 09:11:39
110.   Tripon
About 1.5 million a year for the rest of the season.
2008-08-19 09:11:49
111.   Eric Stephen
Dunn is at $13m; Maddux is $10m
2008-08-19 09:20:29
112.   jtrichey
I like getting Maddux, but I sure hope he is NOT in our playoff rotation if we make it there. We have 4 guys better than him anyway.
2008-08-19 09:24:53
113.   cargill06
84 I'm convinced that Ned thinks...
2 months of a .220 hitter and horrible defense + 2 picks < what Arizona gives up for him

Not that I agree with him, but that could be the only logical explanation.

2008-08-19 09:27:28
114.   Bob Timmermann
Why go to all the trouble to acquire Maddux when Kip Wells could have been signed for peanuts?

Now the Royals have him.

2008-08-19 09:28:48
115.   Disabled List
113 Not that I agree with him, but that could be the only logical explanation.

Another logical explanation is that he's incompetent.

2008-08-19 09:29:05
116.   cargill06
From Rob Neyer, makes a very valid point

And second, what happens if the Dodgers beat out the Diamondbacks? By most reasonable definitions, Maddux is now the Dodgers' fifth-best starting pitcher. Would management bump him from the rotation in October, in favor of 20-year-old Clayton Kershaw? Probably not, and that might actually be a stroke of genius. Before this season, Kershaw had never thrown more than 122 innings in one season. Right now, he's at 134 and counting. Figure seven more starts and he's up to 170-175 innings, which is about the most you'd want to see him throwing this year.

Maybe I'm giving Ned Colletti too much credit, but I wonder if the possible acquisition of Maddux isn't designed, at least in part, to save Kershaw's arm.

2008-08-19 09:29:41
117.   Tripon
114 The same Kip Wells the Dodgers scored 8 runs on without acquiring an out?
2008-08-19 09:30:06
118.   LAT
114. Shawn Chicon could have been had for even less. Think of the Chicon and Kent friendship possibilities.
2008-08-19 09:36:34
119.   Tripon
118 Is your goal to have Kent punch somebody by the end of the season?
2008-08-19 09:38:18
120.   Eric Stephen
Milestones (good and bad) Maddux is likely to reach as a Dodger
1) 8th place all-time wins, passing Roger Clemens (354) - Maddux is sitting on 353 (Maddux could also go CC and get the 8 wins needed to catch Kid Nichols for 7th!)
2) Tying Don Sutton for most seasons with 10+ wins - Maddux, sitting on 6 wins in 2008, has 20 such seasons, one behind the Permed One.
3) 13th place all-time IP, passing Bert Blyleven - Maddux is 2.1 IP behind the Dutch wonder
4) 5,000 IP - Maddux is currently at 4967.2 IP, so he needs 32.1 IP to hit this plateau
5) 1,000 walks - he's at 995 (I wouldn't put it past him to not issue 5 walks)
6) 11th place all-time, hits allowed - Maddux has given up 4683 hits, 9 behind Sutton
2008-08-19 09:40:12
121.   Dane Bramage
118 Good one! That made me laugh the coffee out of my nose!
2008-08-19 09:41:22
122.   Neal Pollack
So awesome. I love Maddux. Coletti continues to accumulate old players like he's a boy collecting vintage comic books.
2008-08-19 09:41:31
123.   cargill06
Ken at it again....'s Ken Rosenthal reports the Los Angeles Dodgers could be poised to claim Colorado Rockies CL Brian Fuentes when he's put through the waiver process. They just have to have a worse record than the Arizona Diamondbacks.

2008-08-19 09:56:23
124.   Tripon
123 The Dodgers and ever other NL contender.
2008-08-19 10:01:37
125.   Eric Stephen
Awesome In-Season Pitching Acquisitions

Sal Maglie, 1956 Dodgers
The 39-year old was 13-5 in 26 starts, 2.87 ERA (140 ERA+), finished 2nd in both CYA and MVP to teammate Don Newcombe; club went to the World Series for the 4th time in 5 years, and Maglie lost to Don Larsen's perfect game in Game 5.

Rick Sutcliffe, 1984 Cubs
16-1 in 20 starts, 2.69 ERA (144 ERA+), won CYA (unanimously, over a 19-year old rookie named Doc) for a Cub team making their first postseason appearance in 39 years

Doyle Alexander, 1987 Tigers
9-0 in 11 starts, 1.53 ERA (278 ERA+), finished 4th in the CYA and helped beat the Blue Jays by 2 games in the AL East. Cost was a little steep (a young pitcher named Smoltz) though.

Randy Johnson, 1998 Astros
10-1 in 11 starts, 1.28 ERA (321 ERA+), finished 7th in CYA voting, lost twice to the Padres in the NLDS despite a 1.93 ERA in the series.

CC Sabathia, 2008 Brewers
8-0 in 9 starts so far, 1.60 ERA (270 ERA+)

I'm sure I'm missing some, but those are the ones that immediately came to mind when thinking of Sabathia.

2008-08-19 10:06:05
126.   Eric Stephen
The Dodgers do have a worse record than every other NL contender, except Arizona and Florida.

Don't be surprised to see Bruce Dern at the Stadium tonight giving the thumbs down sign to Kuroda.

2008-08-19 10:15:23
127.   underdog
Hey folks, bad news, I was just informed that I am one of the PTBNL in the Maddux trade. :-( I have to pack my bags and head over to Ducksnorts now I guess.
2008-08-19 10:16:33
128.   Tripon
127 See ya! Its likely you'll be traded to the Reds for Dusty Baker in the off season.
2008-08-19 10:16:40
129.   Dodgers49
106. 104 No. You are confusing magic number with elimination number.

I've always considered them as two ways of referring to the same thing. In others word, I've always viewed the magic number as the number at which a team will be eliminated. In that example the Dodgers Magic Number was 2 which was the combination needed to eliminate San Diego. Since San Diego's Elimination Number was 2 then that's their "Magic Number" the way I see it.

2008-08-19 10:20:13
130.   Eric Stephen
Can we still use the GreenCine promo though? ;)
2008-08-19 10:25:38
131.   underdog
130 But of course!

Wait, now I'm being traded to the Mariners -- argh! This isn't my day. I thought I'd cleared DotCom Waivers already.

2008-08-19 10:27:59
132.   BlueCrew Bruin
127 Poster To Be Named Later? I would've bet money that you were on the short list of DT "untouchables". This brings up the question...since Bob runs the Griddle, when he's posting on DT is that considered tampering? Since he was previously exclusive to DT and then went and started the Griddle, was he tampering with himself? The mind boggles.
2008-08-19 10:35:10
133.   Zak
132 was he tampering with himself?
There was no better way to phrase this? I almost choked on my diet coke.
2008-08-19 10:38:49
134.   Bob Timmermann
Baseball Toaster, like Baseball itself, is exempt from antitrust laws.
2008-08-19 10:41:44
135.   Disabled List
How come nobody here put in a waiver claim to block Underdog???
2008-08-19 10:41:59
136.   D4P
Good thing you weren't eating chicken.
2008-08-19 10:43:46
137.   Dodgers49
104 Okay, the column I referred to as the Magic Number column would actually be the Elimination Number column. I would still consider any teams elimination number to be its magic number because that's the only number they have to be concerned about.
2008-08-19 10:55:28
138.   underdog
135 Okay, thank God, I was just informed that I was waiver-blocked, as was everyone here, by Bob. Thanks Bob!

Apparently it was just some faulty information from Ken Rosenthal.

2008-08-19 10:56:14
139.   KG16
I maintain my previous position that the Shaq Principle applies to Dunn. By which I mean, Dunn will do more to help the Dodgers by playing in Arizona than he would have in LA or Ohio.
2008-08-19 10:56:48
140.   KG16
Apparently it was just some faulty information from Ken Rosenthal.

The Devil, you say.

2008-08-19 10:58:46
141.   KG16
The "Magic Number" applies for winning the division/wild card. The first place team's magic number is the elimination number of the second place team. The Elimination Number is the number the players on teams not in first place pay attention to because that is the point at which they can start planning their vacations.
2008-08-19 10:59:45
142.   Xeifrank
If you haven't done so already, please fill out the Dodgers' Fan Scouting Report.

vr, Xei

2008-08-19 11:01:25
143.   D4P
Dunn will do more to help the Dodgers by playing in Arizona than he would have in LA or Ohio.

Do you wear women's cowboy boots, by any chance?

2008-08-19 11:04:30
144.   underdog
142 Don't forget to remind people there's still room in your DT fantasy football league!
2008-08-19 11:07:20
145.   JoeyP
139-- That theory doesnt make any sense at all.

How does Dunn make Arizona a worse team?

Are you arguing that Dunn in their lineup is blocking a better player? If so, whom is that player?

2008-08-19 11:07:23
146.   Xeifrank
144. Yes, there's still room. Returning members had first priority and now it's open to anyone else. I don't have the league info with me, but if you do, feel free to post it.
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 11:09:01
147.   Xeifrank
145. Maybe he is arguing that Dunn's Offense + Dunn's defense < 0? Not my argument, just sayin.
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 11:12:22
148.   underdog
145 -

Sign up now!

2008-08-19 11:13:07
149.   underdog
148 - Oh and the password is Matt Kemp's nickname, all lower case.
2008-08-19 11:14:10
150.   Bluebleeder87
On the bright side: Maddux will send Kershaw to the pen thus resting him equals a stronger more rested Kershaw for the dance IF we make it...

I don't know Maddux (that's a weird last name when you think about it) dose not instill confidence in me to be a good playoff pitcher, anybody have playoff numbers on Maddux?

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-08-19 11:16:34
151.   Alex41592

2008-08-19 11:18:24
152.   Xeifrank
150. Lowe, Billingsley, Kuroda, Maddux and ??? if Kershaw goes to the pen? 4 man?
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 11:18:43
153.   silverwidow
150 Maddux is replacing Penny, not Kershaw.

For the short term, anyway.

2008-08-19 11:22:37
154.   Paul Scott
150 Do you have any evidence that pitchers should morph to something other than what they are because a game is a "play-off"?
2008-08-19 11:25:13
155.   timm
Even if Maddux doesn't throw a pitch, his presence to Kershaw and Bills will be a positive
2008-08-19 11:27:19
156.   regfairfield
I would think Greg Maddux would have trouble teaching you something if you don't have pinpoint control.
2008-08-19 11:27:26
157.   Xeifrank
154. I see where you are going, but I vote that we wait a few days before we dig into another day of Baseball Myth Thoughts. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 11:27:30
158.   Dodgers49
141 The Elimination Number is the number the players on teams not in first place pay attention to because that is the point at which they can start planning their vacations.

Agreed. :-)

2008-08-19 11:28:24
159.   JayB
The 'Perfect Storm' is brewing for this off-season; with the number of free-agents, money committed to existing salaries, etc.,etc..I think it is a 'now or never' mentality for Ned (because of his job status), and for F. McCourt this may be his best shot at the play-offs in the next couple of years.
2008-08-19 11:28:45
160.   ToyCannon
Whatever the numbers are, and I'm very sure he has solid playoff numbers, they are not relevant to what he will do in 2008 given his current skill set.
2008-08-19 11:29:45
161.   D4P
I think it is a 'now or never' mentality for Ned

Yep. They're going as "all out" as they can, given current conditions and constraints.

2008-08-19 11:30:05
162.   Xeifrank
156. What would his syllabus look like?
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 11:30:15
163.   ToyCannon
3.34 Playoff ERA
3.14 Career ERA
2008-08-19 11:30:16
164.   timm
156 I think his work ethic and preparation can mean a lot to a young pitching staff.
2008-08-19 11:33:07
165.   timm
159 Even with the core of young players they have on the active and 40 man rosters?
2008-08-19 11:33:20
166.   BlueCrew Bruin
133 You mean was there a less awesome way to phrase it? Possibly. Was I willing to do so? Probably not. {/Jim Tracy}
2008-08-19 11:33:21
167.   ToyCannon
It may be now or never for Ned but the Dodgers will be in the thick of things for the next 5 years. Some posters are worried about our holes for next year but those are the same holes we had this year(2nd, SS, 3rd) and last I looked we are tied for 1st place and I would expect improvement in all those spots over a full year.
2008-08-19 11:33:36
168.   Tripon
159 Except we're in the NL West, and it's only going to take 90 wins to win the West again.
2008-08-19 11:36:02
169.   Dodgers49
May's sacrifice fly gives Suns victory over Lookouts

>> The Suns had only two hits over the final seven innings of the game, both by Ivan DeJesus Jr., went 4 for 5 on the night. <<

2008-08-19 11:37:26
170.   JoeyP
I doubt Kershaw, or any of the youngsters, needs to be told to work hard and prepare. These guys have been working hard their whole lives. It takes an amazing amount of effort and self discipline to be a professional athlete.

Maddux would be a benefit to the Dodgers if you believe he'll do better than James McDonald, Stults, or Johnson in relation to what you have to give up to get him.

But any other perceived intangible value is a slight to the current players IMO.

Its not like if Kershaw starts to suck, that people will blame Maddux.

This intangible Maddux argument is a little too much like "Juan Pierre lights a fire under JD Drew" stuff to believe.

2008-08-19 11:38:46
171.   Xeifrank
168. That's the key. The Padres, Giants and Rockies have very little chance of being dominate, so as long as the DBacks young players don't all go crazy at the same time, the NL West is not all that difficult to win (and on to the crapshoot).
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 11:39:40
172.   MollyKnight
But what would we have done with Dunn? Manny-Kemp-Dunn outfield? Um, what?
2008-08-19 11:41:28
173.   D4P
If some pitcher on the team pitches better after Maddux arrives, will the media start giving Maddux credit for said pitcher's improvement? And will TJ write about it? And will said pitcher get upset?
2008-08-19 11:41:35
174.   cargill06
How realistic or un-realistic do these contracts sound?

Furcal 2 yr 26 mil
Manny 3 yr 65 mil

If those could be done, with Kent, Lowe, and Nomar gone those would cancel out. You could fill 3B with DeWitt, fill 2B with Hu/DeJesus. Than your rotation would have Bills, Kershaw, Kuroda for sure Than you can fill the 2 spots with McDonald, Penny, Schmidt of "X" free-agent if they want to increase pay-roll that much.

That's a team I'd like to watch.

2008-08-19 11:42:53
175.   Dodgers49
Ellis' 10th-inning grand slam ends 51s' skid

>> Dodgers center fielder Andruw Jones, on a rehabilitation stint with the 51s (65-65), hit solo homers in his first two at-bats. Las Vegas' other two runs scored on two-out RBI singles by Chin-lung Hu and B.J. LaMura in the fourth inning.

2008-08-19 11:43:42
176.   Xeifrank
174. I might include a certain Taiwanese pitcher in that starting rotation. Wonder if Saito is coming back next year??
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 11:44:04
177.   KG16
145 - I believe Dunn's numbers were inflated playing in the NL Central, there are a few stadiums in that division that are designed for home run hitters. That's not the case in the NL West.

In fact, looking at his home/road splits, Dunn has shown less power on the road (20 fewer home runs, 20 more doubles, or there abouts), his batting average (and no, I don't care that I'm the only guy around here that actually thinks it's an important stat) and his on base percentage are lower on the road. It stands to reason, seeing more games in Arizona, San Fransisco, San Diego, and Los Angeles will cause the same effect. Plus, that doesn't even factor into the hits that would have been home runs in one stadium that end up being F-9 in the NL West.

Beyond that, Dunn is now engaged in adventures in right field, and he's probably not a good enough defensive player to be playing right field.

I could be wrong. It's entirely possible that Dunn is the guy that catapults the Diamondbacks to the title this year. But, much like my Magic 8 Ball says, "Outlook not so good".

2008-08-19 11:44:14
178.   MonkeyBlue
174. No way Boras would allow that contract. I say they want somewhere in 5 year over 110 million deal.
2008-08-19 11:44:16
179.   ToyCannon
I'd like Eric Stults to spend some time with Jamie Moyer.

Just curious, the great left handers I can remember combined an excellent fastball with a nasty slider ( Carlton, Santana, R Johnson) but I was having a hard time coming up with a great LHP who only had a fastball and curve. Koufax seems to be the only who jumps into my mind.

Can you guys throw some names my way that were basically a two pitch pitcher whose arsenal included only a fastball and curve?

2008-08-19 11:46:33
180.   TopCat
136 - Good thing you weren't eating chicken.

Tears in my eyes...

2008-08-19 11:47:05
181.   natepurcell
No way Boras would allow that contract. I say they want somewhere in 5 year over 110 million deal.

You do realize Manny is 36 years old, correct?

2008-08-19 11:47:30
182.   regfairfield
174 I could see Furcal getting that, but I'm thinking there's no way you get Manny without giving him 100 million. The only outfielder the Yankees have set in stone for 2009 is Damon, we'll need to outbid a desperate team.
2008-08-19 11:48:09
183.   D4P
You do realize Manny is 36 years old, correct?

But (36 + Gloss) = Oh, around, 31 or so.

2008-08-19 11:48:37
184.   CodyS
154 Rick Ankiel, Josh Beckett.
2008-08-19 11:48:47
185.   MonkeyBlue
181. Yeah? and? If you think Manny is going to sign a 3 year deal, so be it.
2008-08-19 11:49:21
186.   Cornell Blue Fan
179- Daryl Kile and Aaron Sele
2008-08-19 11:51:32
187.   unassisted
According to Rosenthal with the Maddux acquisition we can finally put the pesky Chan Ho Park in the bullpen. It's amazing how uninformed these 'experts' are.,-but-missed-a-key-one

2008-08-19 11:57:39
188.   regfairfield
187 He could have replaced Penny in the rotation.
2008-08-19 11:57:41
189.   Dodgers49
Maddux's value doesn't change

>> Checking the ESPN Park Factor page, we see Petco Park ranks dead last for runs scored, and Dodger Stadium is right there with it at No. 29. Basically, nothing changes. <<

2008-08-19 11:58:59
190.   KG16
there is a video clip on about the Dodgers getting Maddux. They talk to Penny and Martin. I'm not sure the location Martin gave his interview was the best place to give such an interview. The glowing run way in the background with music kind of threw me off.
2008-08-19 11:59:48
191.   Jon Weisman
190 - Without looking at the clip, I'm guessing it was shot at the charity bowling event that was held for the Dodger Dream Foundation last night.
2008-08-19 11:59:50
192.   Kevin Lewis

I don't think I would say BA is not an important stat, but it definitely doesn't deserve the weight it typically receives, and it needs to be looked at in the context of OBP and SLG

2008-08-19 12:00:56
193.   Xeifrank
189. Last year (2007) Dodger Stadium was 12th using ESPN's calculations.
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 12:01:18
194.   regfairfield
189 ESPNs park factors are well known for being completely wrong. A couple years ago they had Arizona as the biggest pitchers park in baseball.
2008-08-19 12:01:57
195.   Kevin Lewis
After I wrote that, I saw this on ESPN

"David Wright has driven in 95 runs, but is his .292 average too low?"

Apparently David needs to have a .300 BA or higher to be a viable MVP candidate.

2008-08-19 12:02:39
196.   Eric Stephen
I really wish ESPN would remove their "Park Factors", or at the very least change the name. It's very misleading.
2008-08-19 12:03:34
197.   KG16
191 - yeah, i didn't watch it all the way through, the anchoress said "away from the bowling alley" at the end of the clip.

it was just a bad angle.

2008-08-19 12:04:12
198.   Eric Stephen
According to ESPN Radio host Andy Gresh, Sabathia is the NL MVP! But, as Gresh also notes, CC can't win the Cy Young because "he hasn't been there all year." Sometimes ESPN makes my head hurt.
2008-08-19 12:04:43
199.   Marty
I see that Posnanski's blog is going to be duplicated on the SI site. Good for him.
2008-08-19 12:06:13
200.   Kevin Lewis

Joe's stuff from Beijing has been excellent.

Xaphor, I will see you tonight for the glove handoff. I need it for my game tomorrow night.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-08-19 12:07:51
201.   Tom Meagher
I just have a question about whether anybody here at DT (or elsewhere) had researched a piece of trivia. It is looking likely that the three Dodgers logging the most time at shortstop by season's end will be Berroa, Furcal, and Garciaparra. Has any other team ever had three former Rookie of the Years field the same position in one year? Has any other team had the three players with the most playing time at one position all be former ROY?

Maybe I'll try to figure it out later if there aren't any answers on here.

2008-08-19 12:08:29
202.   Kevin Lewis
Someone just sat down outside of my office to eat his lunch. So, he is looking over my shoulder, and it is creeping me out.
2008-08-19 12:11:44
203.   Marty
202 Is it Shimmin?
2008-08-19 12:11:48
204.   Jon Weisman
202 -

I'm the guy who sits next to you
And reads the newspaper over your shoulder
Don't turn the page
I'm not finished
Life is so uncertain

2008-08-19 12:12:57
205.   Kevin Lewis

Nope, he is not dressed well enough. Good thing I have a dual monitor set up, so now he can't see my internet browsing.

2008-08-19 12:14:28
206.   The Dude Abides
17 - No, there was one out in that eight-run onslaught. You're forgetting Wells blew away Andruw Jones with three 83 MPH fastballs.
2008-08-19 12:15:03
207.   Bob Timmermann
Presumably pitchers are excluded so you can skip the 1981 season of the Dodgers with Sutcliffe, Howe, and Valenzuela.

Of course Valenzuela wasn't a ROY during the 1981 season. He was just a rookie. And Sutcliffe was hurt a lot. But not hurt enough to tear up Lasorda's office.

2008-08-19 12:18:05
208.   Kevin Lewis
Has anyone ever tried Malt-o-Meal? I just picked up a free box of it in the office kitchen. Thought I would give it a try.
2008-08-19 12:19:25
209.   Eric Stephen
That is an awesome question!

So far I have only found this close one:

The 1999 Braves (year 1 B.F.) featured ROY winners Walt Weiss (1988) and Ozzie Guillen (1985) log the most time at SS.

2008-08-19 12:20:15
210.   Dane Bramage
204 Man, I love that album. That's the only Lovett one I own, too.
2008-08-19 12:22:00
211.   Eric Stephen
The 1986 Braves 1B top two were Bob Horner and Chris Chambliss, both former ROY. Stupid Ted Simmons for not winning the award!
2008-08-19 12:22:04
212.   Marty
I ate a lot of Malto Meal as a kid, but don't remember what it tasted like.
2008-08-19 12:26:11
213.   Dane Bramage
212 It's sort of a little heartier cream-of-wheat, FWIW.
2008-08-19 12:26:28
214.   The Dude Abides
Malto Meal = blech
I remember it very well. I needed a ton of sugar to get it down.
2008-08-19 12:27:10
215.   Eric Stephen
The top four first basemen for the 1964 Giants were all ROY:

Orlando Cepeda
Willie McCovey
Harvey Kuenn
Willi Mays

Only 3 innings from Cap Peterson prevented a clean ROY sweep!

2008-08-19 12:29:18
216.   Dane Bramage
214 Or, may I suggest that you do what I used to do...stir in some chocolate syrup (yep, I really did that).
2008-08-19 12:30:32
217.   Bob Timmermann
I'm really disappointed that Marty could not recommend L.A.'s best Malt-o-Meal restaurant.
2008-08-19 12:31:04
218.   oshea2002
Just saw that UCLA announced Craft as starter, no surprise I guess. Seeing as they open with an SEC team I will be pulling from them in their first game.
2008-08-19 12:31:45
219.   bhsportsguy
205 Andrew planted a GPS device on all of your cars while you were out playing whiffle ball.

He is now monitoring your wherebabouts.

2008-08-19 12:32:34
220.   bhsportsguy
218 I assume you mean pulling for them but I wouldn't hold it against you to be pulling from them too.
2008-08-19 12:37:38
221.   oshea2002
220 - haha, yes, pulling for them. I'd love to pull from them too, but I'd feel like that's kicking the bruins when they're down.
2008-08-19 12:38:06
222.   Izzy
I wonder how Maddux would do closing? Are first inning stats of starters usually a good indicator?
2008-08-19 12:39:31
223.   Sam DC
Of possible interest only to Rob and possibly not even him, former Dirtbag Marco Estrada called up today by the Nationals.
2008-08-19 12:58:19
224.   Marty
I want my Maypo
2008-08-19 13:03:02
225.   Tom Meagher
215 Great work!

Mays had no starts at first base that season. His only time there was on May 1 in a game in LA. He was 2 for 4 with a homer and a walk in a 7-1 loss. I'm guessing Mays was moved because he was hurt. To start the bottom of the second, the Giants moved Jesus Alou from RF to CF, Duke Snider from LF to RF, Willie McCovey from 1B to LF, and Mays from CF to 1B. What a random game to set such a record!

Peterson was a PH who was inserted as a defensive replacement at 1B in two 8th inning multiple-switches where three of the ROY were taken out of blow outs (SF allowed 13 runs in each game) on July 23 and August 27. Kuenn, Mays, and Cepeda were pulled from the former game, leaving only McCovey in LF; McCovey, Cepeda, and Mays were pulled from the latter (Kuenn had sat).

The four ROY all had regular playing time on that team (Kuenn a bit less so), whereas Nomar has played only 9 games/68 innings at 3B/1B and Berroa 2 games/2 innings at 2B.

2008-08-19 13:05:56
226.   Gagne55
208 Yes. It is good stuff. Make sure to add brown sugar. :)
2008-08-19 13:12:13
227.   Bob Timmermann
Mays was moved to first in that game in 1964 because he had a leg injury and manager Herman Franks didn't think he could cover enough ground in center in that condition. However, he still hit like a 1964 version of Willie Mays, i.e. he was very good.

Mays did not use a first baseman's glove when he played first. He just used his outfielder's glove.

2008-08-19 13:13:19
228.   ToyCannon
184 & 186
Only looking for LHP so of your list only Ankiel makes the cut and he is a good comp. As I recall Boras wouldn't let him throw the slider or am I mistaken?

Isn't Zito a fastball/curve only guy?

2008-08-19 13:20:16
229.   Tripon
228 His agent wouldn't let him throw a slider? What the heck?! Thats like letting your agent telling a basketball player to not work on your free throw shooting.
2008-08-19 13:20:30
230.   underdog
Speaking of the Nationals, that Crow (un)signing disaster should hopefully be the final nail in Jim Bowden's coffin there. Anytime I wonder about the Dodgers' front office I think of Jim Bowden and breathe a sigh of relief.
2008-08-19 13:22:41
231.   Tripon
230 Say hello to new Dodgers GM Jim Bowden.
2008-08-19 13:25:29
232.   Tom Meagher
Just as Ken Rosenthal has no right to run with the "Why didn't the Dodgers block the Dunn trade?" story after everyone else had weighed in last week, he has no right to call Lucas May a "good catching prospect."
2008-08-19 13:29:25
233.   underdog
231 Not gonna happen. Otherwise, I will trade myself to the Mariners.
2008-08-19 13:34:48
234.   Tripon
233 You just know that the M's are just itching to resign Bavasi.
2008-08-19 13:35:11
235.   regfairfield
234 He's on the Reds now.
2008-08-19 13:35:42
236.   underdog
I was just looking for a way to punish myself even more if I'm wrong, which I won't be.
2008-08-19 13:36:10
237.   scareduck
223 - Coach Weathers is thrilled, you can bet. It was front page news on their home page:

2008-08-19 13:43:49
238.   Sam DC
233 He's careful with a budget.
2008-08-19 13:44:11
154.Do you have any evidence that pitchers should morph to something other than what they are because a game is a "play-off"?

jose lima? jeff suppan? PVLness? ?? ??? ?????

2008-08-19 13:45:34
240.   underdog
Hey, since I was out of town, what was the general reaction here to Jayson Stark's piece a few days ago about Manny-mania? Seemed a bit over the top, like he'd been hanging around Peter "I love me some Red Sox" Gammons too much but whatever. Or is there a specific thread about it?
2008-08-19 13:46:01
241.   guy clinch
I'm reading Glen Stout's book on the Dodgers. In his discussion of the 1985 NLCS, he mentions that Vince Coleman was injured before one of the games in St. Louis. The injury involved the on-field tarps. Does anyone know about this?
2008-08-19 13:47:25
242.   Sam DC
240 -- This one --
2008-08-19 13:49:24
243.   Jon Weisman
241 - Yep, he got caught up in a runaway tarp that was on automatic roll-up and got his ankle practically eaten.
2008-08-19 13:50:41
244.   underdog
242 - Ah! There it is. Thanks Sam. Reading it now.

Speaking of high horses, our campsite this weekend was surrounded by packs of beautiful horses that were out on a grazing break from a nearby mountain ranch. That was pretty cool (except for their residue near our campsite).

2008-08-19 13:52:48
245.   El Lay Dave
241 The 1985 NLCS was extremely painful for so many people.
2008-08-19 13:53:20
246.   Marty
I seem to remember Coleman tried to jump over the tarp and missed.
2008-08-19 13:53:22
247.   guy clinch
243. Yikes...runaway tarp. That is one of the more bizarre sports injuries I've heard about in a while. Wonder if any groundscrew people lost a job over that one.
2008-08-19 13:54:10
248.   Tom Meagher
If anyone still wants to talk about Adam Dunn's home/away splits, I just took a look at them. Compared to the general league splits, they are pretty unremarkable (from 2003-2007 in the major leagues, home hitters were .271/.340/.433 and road hitters .262/.328/.417). His wOBA has been 5.3% better at home (.397 against .377) while the norm is 3.7% (.345 against .333).

Dunn has more HR at GABP, but he also K's just as often there; a hitter at home can expect about 94.3% of the K/PA they get on the road, but Dunn is up at 99.6%. Home hitters also walk more often, 106.7% of their road rate; Dunn's just been 103.0%. And his wOBA on balls in play is .297 at home and .299 on the road; the norm is .312 at home and .306 on the road. So, while Dunn's HR total has been helped by his ballpark, the simplest interpretation is that trying to hit the extra HR at GABP means he doesn't benefit from the HFA in K, BB, or balls in play as much as a typical player.

Dunn is a very good batter, and none of the arguments I have seen to the contrary have any merit.

2008-08-19 13:57:59
249.   Bob Timmermann
It wasn't the grounds crew fault that Coleman got hurt. Busch Stadium at the time had a tarp that rolled out mechanically from a slot near the first base line.

There was sufficient time for Coleman to see the tarp rolling out and get out of the way. The Cardinals used that setup for years and nobody was else was getting hurt by it.

The Cardinals have a regular old tarp now and the grounds crew there is extremely good at getting the tarp on and off.

2008-08-19 13:59:55
250.   Sam DC
249 You and the Mound City have come a long way.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-08-19 14:01:00
251.   Tripon
Saudi Arabia little league team is made of American ExPats's kids. Its almost like a team filled with ringers.
2008-08-19 14:01:44
252.   Bob Timmermann
I'm not one to hold grudges.
2008-08-19 14:02:36
253.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2008-08-19 14:03:35
254.   Marty
Old friend Toby Hall denies that his latest shoulder injury was caused by Jermaine Dye blocking his attempt to shove a shaving-cream pie in Dye's face.

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