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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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2008-08-19 14:01
by Jon Weisman

The exact phrasing from the Dodgers' official Greg Maddux announcement:

The Los Angeles Dodgers today announced that they have re-acquired right-handed pitcher Greg Maddux and cash considerations from the San Diego Padres for two minor league players to be named later or cash considerations.

* * *

Double-dog dare:

"It's very rare that you get the opportunity to add a pitcher like Greg even one time, let alone twice," Dodger general manager Ned Colletti said.

Comments (155)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-08-19 14:03:40
1.   Bob Timmermann
Quick everyone! To the Boolean operator translator!
2008-08-19 14:04:37
2.   Marty
Old friend Toby Hall denies that his latest shoulder injury was caused by Jermaine Dye blocking his attempt to shove a shaving-cream pie in Dye's face.
2008-08-19 14:05:16
3.   Greg Brock
Cash Considerations never proved he could hit above AA ball. It was time to move on.
2008-08-19 14:06:13
4.   Tripon
cash considerations?

Who's getting paid, Maddux? or the Padres?

2008-08-19 14:06:45
5.   Xeifrank
Dunn has more HR at GABP, but he also K's just as often there; a hitter at home can expect about 94.3% of the K/PA they get on the road, but Dunn is up at 99.6%. Home hitters also walk more often, 106.7% of their road rate; Dunn's just been 103.0%. And his wOBA on balls in play is .297 at home and .299 on the road; the norm is .312 at home and .306 on the road. So, while Dunn's HR total has been helped by his ballpark, the simplest interpretation is that trying to hit the extra HR at GABP means he doesn't benefit from the HFA in K, BB, or balls in play as much as a typical player.

Tom, interesting stats. What is the boost in HR/PA that a player gets at home vs road? Also, did you calculate these numbers yourself, or where did you pull them from? What years are included in these stats?
vr, Xei

2008-08-19 14:07:10
6.   Humma Kavula
Somebody should start a Tigers blog called "Norm Cash Considerations."
2008-08-19 14:08:30
7.   bhsportsguy
4 That means if the Dodgers and Padres cannot agree on what players are in the deal, the Dodgers could just send cash.
2008-08-19 14:09:33
8.   Disabled List
Wouldn't the "or" here imply that the Dodgers might be sending money instead of minor-leaguers to the Padres?

If so, no big deal. A (presumably) rich team pays off a not-as-rich team for one of its players. That's the natural order of things in the jungle.

If the cash considerations were going the other way, that's another story.

2008-08-19 14:10:01
9.   El Lay Dave
6 Or a Pennsylvania baseball blog called "Dave Cash Considerations".
2008-08-19 14:10:11
10.   bhsportsguy
3 Why aren't you living the good life in one of the most beautiful spots in California?

There must be something better to do there than read this stuff.

I guess the guy just loves his new toy.

2008-08-19 14:11:00
11.   timm
Apparently the deal is predicated on how much Maddux condributes.
2008-08-19 14:12:54
12.   bigcpa
So this makes 3 first ballot HOF'ers and 3 maybe's on the 40-man roster. That's gotta top the Yankees.
2008-08-19 14:13:05
13.   Greg Brock
10 I went Kayaking this morning and into SLO to walk around and shop. I'm taking a break from vacation.

Plus my friends aren't coming up until tomorrow. I have to pace myself.

2008-08-19 14:13:38
14.   timm
11 Or maybe not!
2008-08-19 14:13:54
15.   Ken Noe
So if we don't like Cash Considerations this time, having re-acquired him along with the Professor, we can trade him back?
2008-08-19 14:14:51
16.   caseybarker
6 The first entry could be entitled, "Put a Cork in it, Gary Sheffield."
2008-08-19 14:14:55
17.   GoBears
That Colletti quote is almost Yogi-esque.

Oh, and someone tell Mr. Colletti that acquiring washed-up FORMERLY great players is actually pretty easy. That's why he's able to do it.

2008-08-19 14:16:09
18.   El Lay Dave
So if Padres send money now and the Dodgers send back money later, isn't that called a loan?
2008-08-19 14:16:44
19.   timm
17 Washed up? His ERA is less than 4 this year.
2008-08-19 14:17:34
20.   El Lay Dave
Right now Colletti has the opportunity to add Roger Clemens too.
2008-08-19 14:17:45
21.   timm
19 Or maybe not!
2008-08-19 14:18:13
22.   El Lay Dave
19 However, it is well over 6 outside of Petco.
2008-08-19 14:18:29
23.   still bevens
So does he start tonight or tomorrow. Ticket holders for tomorrow's game want to know.
2008-08-19 14:19:05
24.   Sushirabbit
I'm a bit surprised by Loney's drop in slugging; did anyone else expect a 100 or so drop? Or is it not that big a deal? I guess he could go on another september tear and up it a bit.
2008-08-19 14:19:17
25.   Bob Timmermann
I believe the Dodgers and Padres have started a lend-lease program similar to what the US and the UK had in 1940.

The Dodgers will pay the Padres later for the use of their hose to put out a fire.

Meanwhile, Matt Kemp and Manny Ramirez will save the world from fascism.

2008-08-19 14:19:55
26.   timm
My guess, Sat, against the Phillies
2008-08-19 14:21:03
27.   bhsportsguy
Boston acquired Paul Byrd under the same terms.

"The 37-year-old veteran is heading to the Red Sox for a player to be named later or cash considerations."

2008-08-19 14:22:10
28.   D4P
I'm a bit surprised by Loney's drop in slugging; did anyone else expect a 100 or so drop?

Well, he BA'd .331 last season...

2008-08-19 14:22:52
29.   Jon Weisman
10 - "There must be something better to do there than read this stuff."


2008-08-19 14:23:01
30.   El Lay Dave
27 But Cleveland didn't send any money. Last season, Mark Sweeney was also acquired (8/9) for PTBNL or cash; Travis Denker was named on 8/27.
2008-08-19 14:24:35
31.   regfairfield
24 His total inability to hit for power in Vegas made me think he's struggle in that department this year.
2008-08-19 14:26:12
32.   El Lay Dave
25 I thought one simply returns the hose after the fire is over.
2008-08-19 14:27:06
33.   Eric Stephen

Oooh, now I expect BH to call you a liar and say he doesn't believe you, followed by an amazing version of his most well known post.

2008-08-19 14:27:21
34.   Bob Timmermann
But sometimes the hose can't be reused.
2008-08-19 14:27:44
35.   bhsportsguy
29 I thought that would get a reaction from you.
2008-08-19 14:29:15
36.   Tom Meagher
The comparison H/R splits were all major league PA from 2003-2007. I/myspreadsheet calculated the numbers, yeah. The Dunn numbers are his career home/away splits through yesterday, so whatever his numbers with Arizona have been might be screwing it up a micron or two.

By HR/(PA-IBB-SH), Dunn has been .0654 in CIN and .0544 elsewhere; the "norm" as above is .0288 at home and .0275 away. So, a 20.1% gain for Dunn instead of a 4.7% gain. His wOBA on the three true outcomes (including HBP, excluding IBB) has been .495 at home and .458 away. The 03-07 ML had a .429 wOBA on TTO at home against .401 on the road. So, Dunn has been 8% better on those against the norm of 6.9%.

I have a way of splitting up wOBA (right now, ROE not included) between Plate contribution (K, BB, and number of balls put into play) and Yard contribution (i.e., how well the ball traveled - 1B, 2B, 3B, HR, Outs in play); might publish the details some day. Anyway, Dunn's Plate is .327 H / .325 R, vs. 03-07ML's .334 H / .329 R. Dunn's Yard is .396 H / .379 R vs. 03-07ML's .335 H / .328 R.

While GABP has helped Dunn's raw totals, it has not done so to a greater extent than the typical park factors used to adjust his numbers would suggest.

2008-08-19 14:30:06
37.   Jon Weisman
35 - Rule 3~!
2008-08-19 14:30:22
38.   El Lay Dave
25 Wait - does that mean:
Frank McCourt = King George VI
Jamie McCourt = Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon
Ned Colletti = Winston Churchill
2008-08-19 14:32:12
39.   Gen3Blue
The way that transaction is worded is delightful, because cash considerations could concievably flow both ways, which would almost certainly be counter-productive. Of course we have to assume that Colletti knows that three of the teams in our division are cash constrained and have to develop young players to be competitive, so he wouldn't have offered them really useful prospects.( I'm chocking at this point).
All in all, though Ned has not been too disastrous for our first tier prospects, he has pretty well cleared out the second tier, and going back to the trades with TB,(Jackson and Tiffany?) I'm not sure what we have got of lasting value.
2008-08-19 14:32:18
40.   Dodgers49
Replacing Greg Maddux on the San Diego roster is none other than old friend Brett Tomko.

2008-08-19 14:32:52
41.   bhsportsguy
37 Oops, its good thing your kids liked the lemon bars.
2008-08-19 14:34:19
42.   Xeifrank
36. What is the league average number for HR/PA at home vs road? If I missed it and it's somewhere in one of your posts, I apologize.
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 14:34:25
43.   Jon Weisman
41 - Yes it is. Yes it is. :)
2008-08-19 14:37:45
45.   El Lay Dave
Josh Rawitch is pushing the Think Cure on-line auction, particularly his prize, which does sound pretty nice.

* Spend a day at the stadium with Josh Rawitch, the key behind-the-scenes link between the players and the press. See how game-day stats are assembled, how to handle questions from reporters on deadlines. Experience the fast-paced excitement of Major League Baseball from the inside.

* Meeting Joe Torre and taking part in his pregame media session

* Standing on the field at Dodger Stadium for the National Anthem

* A private tour of the stadium, including areas that the public tour doesn't go (underground batting cages, player's lounge, Dodger offices, press box, broadcast booths, DodgerVision booth...

* every day of my job requires me to interact with all of the Dodger broadcasters

* I spend about an hour of each day in the Dodger clubhouse, as would the fan who purchases the package to go Inside the Dodgers.

High bid currently $430.

2008-08-19 14:37:50
46.   bhsportsguy
Molly Knight did a podcast on the LAT Dodger blog today but I cannot get the link to work.
2008-08-19 14:38:44
47.   skybluestoday
Whoops, sorry, Jon. No offense intended, and I don't have a history of it.
2008-08-19 14:42:31
48.   Kevin Lewis

It worked for me about 3 hours ago.

2008-08-19 14:43:49
49.   El Lay Dave
Maddux wore #36 in his last LA stint. Ardoin has 36 at the moment. His Braves' number was 31, which is Penny's, of course. He wore 30 on the Padres, currently Blake's number.
2008-08-19 14:43:50
50.   Paul Scott
27 That is very very far from the same thing. Boston got Byrd for ONE PTBNL -OR- cash. We got Maddux AND Cash for TWO PTBNL.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-08-19 14:46:43
51.   Xeifrank
49. Maybe he will take the average and wear number 32-1/3. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 14:48:25
52.   Kevin Lewis

Penny doesn't really need his number right now, right?

2008-08-19 14:48:36
53.   El Lay Dave
50 You mean "... TWO PTBNL" or cash considerations. (See Jon's original post.)
2008-08-19 14:48:36
54.   Jon Weisman
50 - We got Maddux AND Cash for two PTBNL OR cash, according to the announcement. Hence the similarity. Not that I'm counting on us not giving up any players.
2008-08-19 14:48:44
55.   cargill06
49 32 is my guess.
2008-08-19 14:49:00
56.   GiantturnedDodger
Is it 7:10 yet? I hate off days.
2008-08-19 14:49:12
57.   bhsportsguy
50 To be fair, add "or cash considerations."
2008-08-19 14:49:40
58.   El Lay Dave
Perhaps McCourt will send cash instead of players if he realizes extra revenue from playoff games?
2008-08-19 14:50:04
59.   Jon Weisman
From the press notes:

Highest Slugging Pct in August, NL Players, 2008

(minimum 40 AB)

Ty Wigginton, Hou .932
Ryan Ludwick, StL .803
Andre Ethier, LAD .786
Manny Ramirez, LAD .780

2008-08-19 14:50:38
60.   bhsportsguy
And while the addition of that last three words may not mean anything, certainly if it wasn't an option, they wouldn't use it in the official release.
2008-08-19 14:50:47
61.   Jon Weisman

"Each of the Dodgers' last nine games have been decided by one or two runs. They are 6-3 in that stretch, including wins in six of the last seven. Beginning July 23, in fact, 20 of the Dodgers' 24 games have been decided by three runs or less. Los Angeles is 11-9 in those 20 games and 15-9 overall in that time. The Dodgers are 17-18 in one-run games and 11-14 in two-run contests."

2008-08-19 14:51:47
62.   bhsportsguy
58 I think the cash part has more to do with the list of players the Dodgers give the Padres and how much the Padres would rather have money as opposed to players.
2008-08-19 14:51:56
63.   bearlurker
Has Rosenthal's article criticizing the Dodgers for not claiming Dunn already been linked?
2008-08-19 14:52:18
64.   scareduck
Regarding Tom's question at 201 in the last thread, the 1965 Giants also had the same RoY configuration at first.

The Lahman database doesn't provide data for particular outfield usages prior to 1995 (i.e., the "OF" designation is widespread), making it difficult to say with any certainty how things broke down. Nevertheless, and relaxing things a bit for the sake of convenience (RoY only, any named position, including pitchers and DHs):

1962-64 Giants, OF: Cepeda, Kuenn, Mays, McCovey
1964-65 Giants, 1B: Cepeda, Kuenn, Mays, McCovey
1958-59 Senators, OF: Bob Allison, Albie Pearson, Roy Sievers
1959, 1961-1964 Dodgers, OF: Jim Gilliam, Frank Howard, Wally Moon
1976 Yankees, DH: Chris Chambliss, Thurman Munson, Lou Piniella
1977 Mets, P: John Matlack, Tom Seaver, Pat Zachry
1980-81 Dodgers, P: Steve Howe, Rick Sutcliffe, Fernando Valenzuela
1983 Dodgers, P: Steve Howe, Fernando Valenzuela, Pat Zachry
1986 White Sox, DH: Carlton Fisk, Ozzie Guillen, Ron Kittle
1993 Orioles, P: Gregg Olson, Rick Sutcliffe, Fernando Valenzuela
2000 Yankees, DH: Jose Canseco, David Justice, Chuck Knoblauch

2008-08-19 14:53:04
65.   bhsportsguy
63 Yes, this morning in the previous thread.
2008-08-19 14:54:06
66.   MollyKnight
2008-08-19 14:55:44
67.   bearlurker

Thanks, just found Jon's post linking it from the previous thread.

2008-08-19 14:56:07
68.   GoBears
59. Just like many here said. Adding Ramirez has helped, but benching Pierre and freeing Ethier has helped even more (by this measure - MR's OBP is absurdly high too).
2008-08-19 14:56:40
69.   regfairfield
Look at the protection that Darin Erstad provides.
2008-08-19 14:57:31
70.   the count
I missed the previous thread so sorry if this has been discussed. But, is anyone frightened by Maddux's home/away splits this season? His ERA is a full 3 runs higher on the road.
2008-08-19 14:58:39
71.   MollyKnight
Does the wording of that press release mean we COULD be getting a Maddux rental plus cash for prospects?

That would fit with the current philosophy.

2008-08-19 14:58:48
72.   Alex41592
Do we EVER find out what cash considerations becomes? I've also seen 'So and so player for future considerations'. Future definitely seems to have more upside than cash.

So, it looks like it's a salary dump. If the Dodgers don't like the Padres player decisions they can write them a nice check and say no thanks.

2008-08-19 14:58:49
73.   cargill06
Matt Kemp logged 14 Non-IBB last month in 122 PA's, this month 1 Non-IBB this month in 74 PA's
2008-08-19 14:59:34
74.   underdog
13 You could always go visit my mom and stepdad in beautiful Sta Barbara, just halfway from there to LA. Or go hang around the Cal Poly campus like Joe Cool (or Joe Cougar).

I kayaked in Morro Bay once and saw quite a few otters; it was awesome.

2008-08-19 15:00:44
75.   cargill06
73 In cast I didn't make myself clear I was talking about this month with the 1 non-IBB taking place in this month.
2008-08-19 15:02:18
76.   JoeyP
72-> I think you have it backwards. If the Padres dont like the list of players the Dodgers give them to pick from, then they can get money instead.
2008-08-19 15:02:35
77.   Tripon
Mets Wagner's is out indefinitely.

2008-08-19 15:03:16
78.   Alex41592
76 - That's fine as well.
2008-08-19 15:05:05
79.   goofus
46 If you can email him, tell him to add: Admission to the after-game-meal with the players, and the bid will really go up. Too bad Andruw isn't there, but we still have Penney...
2008-08-19 15:05:32
80.   Xeifrank
70. Maddux FIP ERA (this season)
Home: 4.04
Road: 4.00

Not too worried.
vr, Xei

2008-08-19 15:06:52
81.   Jon Weisman
The only compensation the press release seems to rule out is a single player, which I find a little odd.

In any case, we might be sending the Padres two minor leaguers or we might be sending them cash. I don't see that it's worth trying to play the guessing game until the answer just comes.

2008-08-19 15:07:23
82.   Tom Meagher
42 First sentence of paragraph 2 of 36 :
"the 'norm' as above is .0288 at home and .0275 away."

Ken Gurnick wrote this of Maddux:
"Maddux went a tough-luck 6-9 with 11 no-decisions and a 3.99 ERA for San Diego." Where exactly did the tough luck come in? The Padres have scored 3.82 runs per game, and Maddux has allowed 4.70. I actually think Maddux is still a slightly above average SP (NL SP have .486 Wins/Decision), but to call that 6-9 tough luck is a huge stretch.

2008-08-19 15:09:23
83.   cargill06
80 Wow, fantastic point. His HR is almost identical H/R this season.
2008-08-19 15:10:57
84.   himynameisyoo
what exactly is FIP ERA?
2008-08-19 15:12:13
85.   regfairfield
Maddux allowing more home runs on the road than in Petco: the genius of Greg Maddux, or lucky fluke that's going to kill us at the worst possible time?
2008-08-19 15:13:49
86.   Terry A
Cash considerations could be a lot of things. Timeshares; free parking (selected Boston lots only); tickets to the AYCE pavilion in Dodger Stadium; personal visit from Tom Lasorda.

It all depends on who's doing the considering, and who doesn't have any cash.

2008-08-19 15:14:13
87.   Xeifrank
"the 'norm' as above is .0288 at home and .0275 away."
Sorry I am having trouble reading this. In your posts on the previous thread you listed a single coefficient that the typical major leaguer would see his strikeout and walk totals rise by, from shifting from a road to a home game (ie K/PA was something like 0.94). What is the coefficient you have for HR/PA moving from a road to home game? Should be just one number, something like 1.047?
Thanks, sorry for the confusion.
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 15:15:51
88.   silverwidow
55 Don't know if you were joking, but 32 is retired. Some guy named Koufax wore it.
2008-08-19 15:16:07
89.   Xeifrank
84. FIP ERA =
((13HR + 3BB - K2) / IP) + 3.2

it's the "best fit" regression formula for converting the fielding independent pitching stats into ERA (developed by Tom Tango, I believe).
vr, Xei

2008-08-19 15:16:08
90.   GoBears
80 That's interesting. Does that mean he has allowed more unearned runs at home, or that he's been plagued by bad defense on the road, just without actual errors?

It looks like the diff. b/w ERA and FIP is bigger on the road - so it's the latter, right?

Please 'splain the implications of the stats you just provided, if you're so inclined. My brain is suffering from a lack of lunch.

2008-08-19 15:18:12
91.   Xeifrank
90. Basically, based on fielding independent pitching stats (HR, BB, K), the three stats a pitcher can control, Maddux has been unlucky on the road. You could also take a look at his BABIP home/road if you'd like. I will leave that excercise for others. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 15:19:12
92.   cargill06
89 It also shows, how unlucky/lucky a pitcher's been this year. Like Dice K for example, his FIP is nearly a 1.4 runs higher than his acutal ERA and if he continues this pitching trends you would expect his ERA to rise.
2008-08-19 15:19:36
93.   Dodgers49
Rangers' Kinsler heads to DL with sports hernia

>> Rangers All-Star second baseman Ian Kinsler was placed on the 15-day disabled list Monday with a sports hernia, and could be headed for season-ending surgery. <<

This is bad news. See Abreu, Tony.

2008-08-19 15:20:49
94.   Tom Meagher
64 '62-'65 met my first criteria alone, but '64 met and exceeded both of my criteria. (Mays did not play 1B in '65, and Kuenn and Cepeda barely played there.) Kuenn, Cepeda, and McCovey all played the same position in each of those four seasons: 1962, LF and RF (one game at each for Cepeda); 1963, LF; 1964, LF and 1B (only one PLAY for Cepeda in LF); 1965, 1B. In '65, Mays, Cepeda, and Kuenn all played LF, as well.
2008-08-19 15:22:37
95.   regfairfield
91 With the Dodger defense behind him, he's more likely to continue being unlucky.
2008-08-19 15:24:01
96.   Bob Timmermann
It's bad news for the guy who had Ian Kinsler on his fantasy team.
2008-08-19 15:25:20
97.   Tom Meagher
87 That was the next bit:
"So, a 20.1% gain for Dunn instead of a 4.7% gain." As a single coefficient, it's 1.0468, Dunn's being 1.2013.

91 If I recall correctly, his BABIP split has been .230 at Home and .350 on the road this season. Keep in mind that the denominator in FIP is IP, which is BABIP-impacted.

2008-08-19 15:25:51
98.   D4P
it's the "best fit" regression formula for converting the fielding independent pitching stats into ERA

Any idea what the "r-squareds" usually are on such models...?

2008-08-19 15:28:44
99.   GoBears
91 Thanks. I get it now.
2008-08-19 15:30:11
100.   scareduck
94 - I know; as I said, I was relaxing the requirements a bit so I could get some answers without having to spend the rest of the day refining my answers. Part of the problem is that the Lahman database only provides outs played per position back to 1995 (maybe earlier, but I'm assuming the data has the same foibles as the OF oddity). I thought it was an interesting list, anyway.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-08-19 15:38:32
101.   Xeifrank
98. Fair question, that I don't know the answer to. I will try to ask the author.
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 15:44:36
102.   CodyS
89 Wow, I always assumed FIP was something more meaningful than that. I imagined it had to do with watching the games and evaluating the plays made/not made compared to average. Or at least involved some aggregate measure of the team defense.
2008-08-19 15:48:12
103.   cargill06
102 I thought so too. It looks pretty accurate over the long run. I found a couple statistical exceptions. Carlos Zambrano's FIP is always a lot higher than his ERA and AJ Burnett's FIP is usually a lot lower than his actual ERA. Of course, it's not perfect but it seems very accurate to measure defensive help/lucky or unlucky seasons.
2008-08-19 15:56:31
104.   D4P
Depo has a comment up on the Maddux trade. Unfortunately, he's not allowed to talk about any Dodger players the Padres might be interested in.
2008-08-19 15:58:59
105.   ToyCannon
Who will be the best pitcher from here on out. Randy Johnson or Greg Maddux?
2008-08-19 15:59:24
106.   GoBears
102. Yeah, me too. But FIP is basically BABIPIP.

Interesting in Maddux's case. That his home and road FIP are so similar means that he gives up more HRs and BBs in Petco than I would have expected. I'd think that for a control pitcher, Petco would be nirvana - just toss up hittable (but not crushable) balls and let the defense run under them.

Dodger Stadium's slightly better-than-average HR factor plus a pretty lousy defense suggest that a Maddux who could not even take full advantage of PETCO (more lucky than good, evidently) might be hard to watch here.

2008-08-19 16:01:21
107.   Tripon
Anybody got a lineup?
2008-08-19 16:01:25
108.   Blue in SF
Russel Martin is on TMZ:

Anyone recognize who he is with?

2008-08-19 16:01:40
109.   silverwidow
It's Fantasy Football season and I've got the 8th pick next week. I'm hoping seven people get cold feet and don't pick Steven Jackson because of his holdout. Then he's MINE.
2008-08-19 16:05:16
110.   ibleedbloo
I think everyone is missing the real story here. I am on the edge of my seat waiting to find out if Maddux will cut his hair.
2008-08-19 16:07:34
111.   Xeifrank
106. I believe that PetCo really only supresses home runs for left handed batters. Which can really be seen in Adrian Gonzalez's stats.
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 16:13:46
112.   Kevin Lewis

Wow, TMZ is quality reporting

2008-08-19 16:19:40
113.   KG16
112 - did you expect anything less from TMZ?
2008-08-19 16:29:23
114.   trainwreck
Probably his PR guy or manager who did not want him being interviewed while he was drunk.
2008-08-19 16:35:39
115.   trainwreck
No idea who the girl is, but I am disappointed in Russell.
2008-08-19 16:41:56
116.   Tripon
Russell Martin is a 25 year old guy in L.A. with a lot of money. Is any of this very surprising?
2008-08-19 16:47:07
117.   Jon Weisman
So after all the chatter, the Angels and Rays are playing tonight. Angels lead 1-0 in the second on a Vlad HR.
2008-08-19 16:49:35
118.   Xeifrank
117. The game doesn't start until the Rays get their first hit.
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 16:49:54
119.   Tom Meagher
More on 64 (and 100 , I knew you knew):

1958-59 Senators, OF: Bob Allison, Albie Pearson, Roy Sievers - Pearson won in '58 and Allison won in '59, so... Pearson and Sievers didn't overlap at any position, and Pearson was traded in early '59 to make room for Allison in CF.

1959, 1961-1964 Dodgers, OF: Jim Gilliam, Frank Howard, Wally Moon. They all played at LF in '59, '61, and '62 and RF in '59, '62, and '64. However, Howard was ROY in '60. Gilliam played 63 innings in the OF in '59, 0 in '60, 63 in '61, 2 in '62, 0 in '63, and 1 in '64; he logged two games in RF in '64, playing in one bottom of the ninth (home team lost) and one bottom of the 13th (walkoff single with one out, scoring Orlando Cepeda!).

1976 Yankees, DH: Chris Chambliss, Thurman Munson, Lou Piniella - Piniella and Munson both played at LF, RF, and DH (with most of Munson's time at catcher, of course), and Chambliss played all 1B except for one game at DH on September 20.

1977 Mets, P: John Matlack, Tom Seaver, Pat Zachry - all pitched out of the rotation (exclusively), so this one counts for sure. Zachry won the '76 ROY for Cincinnati and was part of the package the Mets received for Seaver when he was traded in June of that year, so this was an in-season swap of ROY with Zachry taking Seaver's place in the rotation.

1980-81 Dodgers, P: Steve Howe, Rick Sutcliffe, Fernando Valenzuela - of course, they won the awards in '79-'81. All three pitched in the games of 9/28/80 (Valenzuela came in after Howe blew an 8th inning lead) and 10/6/80 (the one-game playoff: Sutcliffe took over in the 4th, got an out, and then loaded the bases before Joe Beckwith came in and let all three score; Howe and Valenzuela split the final four innings, yielding only one hit and no runs). In '81, Fernando only started, Howe only relieved, and Sutcliffe did both. Howe appeared in four of the six games started by Sutcliffe and four of the 25 Fernando starts (he had 11 CG); Sutcliffe appeared in two of Fernando's starts, and all three pitched in a game on June 6.

1983 Dodgers, P: Steve Howe, Fernando Valenzuela, Pat Zachry - This one works, although if a SP/RP distinction is used it does not. Zachry made 39 relief appearances and one start. The start was game 2 of a doubleheader, and the Dodgers won 2-1 with Howe giving up the only run. The three all took the mound in the games on June 29 and September 10.

1986 White Sox, DH: Carlton Fisk, Ozzie Guillen, Ron Kittle - They were teammates in '85 (when Guillen won) as well. Guillen started all but 12 games at SS and played at no other position. On June 12, trailing 4-3 with Fisk at C and Kittle at DH (both started the game), Kittle hit a single to lead off the top of the ninth. Guillen pinch ran for Kittle and scored the tying run; the Sox added 4 more to go up 8-4. In the bottom of the ninth, Guillen stayed in the game at SS. So this one hinges on whether you want to credit Guillen with a game played at DH. Both Kittle and Fisk saw time at LF, as well.

1993 Orioles, P: Gregg Olson, Rick Sutcliffe, Fernando Valenzuela - Another hit. No overlapping games, as the latter two only made one appearance in relief each. Olson was an elite closer at the time and Sutcliffe and Valenzuela were innings eaters in the rotation walking as many batters as they were striking out.

2000 Yankees, DH: Jose Canseco, David Justice, Chuck Knoblauch - Shane Spencer had more games than any of them and only Canseco logged more games there than Glenallan Hill, but this one's a definite hit.

2008-08-19 16:50:55
120.   Gen3Blue
Nice to see Boras's friend Hochevar getting ruffed up by Cleveland. The certainty that Boras cares nothing for the player or team but only his pocket makes it easy to not feel sorry for him and his players.
2008-08-19 16:51:45
121.   still bevens
Via ItD. Insanely bored at work today so Ive been constantly checking the various sites for a lineup.

Kemp, CF
Ethier, RF
Kent, 2B
Manny, LF
Loney, 1B
Martin, C
Nomar, SS
Blake, 3B
Kuroda, P

2008-08-19 16:55:24
122.   Tripon
120 That's a bit harsh. Hochevar made his own bed when he spurned the Dodgers. Besides, he saved the Dodgers $4 million dollars by not paying for his poor services. ~_~
2008-08-19 16:56:29
123.   still bevens
122 And we got Kershaw out of it too. Which is nice.
2008-08-19 16:57:59
124.   Tripon
121 I'd switch Martin and Loney.

Kinda interesting that Nomar seems to be entrenched at the 7th spot. I would have thought Torre would have tried to inch him back up the batting order to 5th or 6th by now to dispel Loney or Martin.

2008-08-19 16:59:22
125.   Tripon
123 Did we? Kershaw was picked 7th in the 2006 draft, we would have had that pick regardless. Wasn't Horcheaver a compensation pick (in the forties somewhere) in 2005?
2008-08-19 16:59:27
126.   Dane Bramage
122 I think the point is that he spurned the Dodgers on the advice of his agent.
2008-08-19 16:59:31
127.   Xeifrank
Simulator gives the Dodgers around a 55% chance of winning tonight's game. It has Kuroda going 6-2/3rds innings on average and making 98 pitches. It has Jimenez averaging 6 innings of work and 94.25 pitches per game. The four Dodger players most likely to hit a home run are Ramirez, Ethier, Loney and Kemp. For the Rockies it is Holliday, Ianetta and Hawpe (contiengent on the Rockies using their normal starters). Prediction line of Kuroda is...
IP: 6-2/3
SO: 4
BB: 2
Hits: 7
HR: 1
WHIP: 1.35

Go Dodgers!
vr, Xei

2008-08-19 17:00:44
128.   regfairfield
125 The Royals would have taken Andrew Miller and the Tigers would have taken Kershaw if Hochevar wasn't there.
2008-08-19 17:02:09
129.   MollyKnight
I told the guys I'd be in their fantasy football league this year, thinking it would be some harmless yahoo thing.

I got an email today from the commissioner and we are having a live auction in a private lounge below a bar. We each have to chip in $50, and it's a keeper league. I am so overwhelmed, and I'm sure I'll pick a bunch of losers. Of course, being in over your head is probably the best way to assure victory in fantasy sports.

2008-08-19 17:02:45
130.   Tripon
128 Ah. Who would the Dodgers have taken then? Tim Lincecum or Max Scherzer?
2008-08-19 17:03:08
131.   Dane Bramage
127 Xei, you sure run a lot of variables in your simulations, and seemingly quickly. What are you using, Beowulf? ;-)
2008-08-19 17:03:13
132.   Jon Weisman
Stults back to Vegas, Proctor to 60-day DL.
2008-08-19 17:04:02
133.   regfairfield
130 Not sure, but I remember Logan White saying he would have been happy with Morris as the seventh pick.
2008-08-19 17:05:48
134.   Gagne55
127 Buthow many runs?
2008-08-19 17:06:10
135.   silverwidow
130 Bryan Morris, who helped get us Manny.
2008-08-19 17:06:51
136.   GoBears
132. How long does Proctor's contract have to run? Might this mean that he's pitched his last as a Dodger?

I'm mildly surprised that Torre was OK with this move, unless of course Proctor really is that badly injured.

2008-08-19 17:07:51
137.   regfairfield
136 We can non tender him after this year.
2008-08-19 17:10:12
138.   Tripon
135 133 Ah, I see. Guess it all worked out for the Dodgers in the end.
2008-08-19 17:10:43
139.   bferb
Not sure if this has been mentioned in previous threads, but has anyone else realized that this leaves us with 5 starters with sub-4.00 ERA's. (I realize not everyone believes it to be the most important stat but I think its pretty impressive)

Billingsley 3.10
Kershaw 3.59
Kuroda 3.88
Lowe 3.99
Maddux 3.99

Does any other starting rotation in baseball have all 5 starters with sub 4 ERA's?

Also the back-up starters Johnson, Stults, Park all carry ERA's of 3.18 or below, not that those ERA's would hold with larger samples, but still interesting)

2008-08-19 17:11:55
140.   Gagne55
So I just checked out Xeifrank's Dodger's Sims site. It looks like betting using his sims will make an actual profit. However, betting using accuscore will make serious bank!
2008-08-19 17:12:17
141.   El Lay Dave
124 I believe that Torre's thinking is that if Jimenez (RHP) wants to pitch around Manny, he'll have to face a left-hand batter (Loney).
2008-08-19 17:13:19
142.   bhsportsguy
136 It was already at 55 days and there was no sign that he was coming back even in September.
2008-08-19 17:14:34
143.   El Lay Dave
136 The 60 days expire later this week. He last pitched 6/21.
2008-08-19 17:16:13
144.   bhsportsguy
129 I have been told that most good fantasy football players do not pick their QB with their first 3 picks. Usually its running backs, tight ends and wide receivors.

But then, I have never played fantasy football so don't go by me.

You will probably win the league by just picking players you interviewed on your training camp tour.

2008-08-19 17:16:14
145.   skybluestoday
Re: 116

Goodness, who cares? He's allowed to party when he's not working, no?

2008-08-19 17:17:08
146.   bhsportsguy
143 That's true but I think the only players coming off the 60 day roster if available will be Furcal and/or Bennett.
2008-08-19 17:18:23
147.   Tripon
Its the time of the season where it isn't time to fool around with the team. (Which means that Tanyon Sturtze never sees the light of day.)
2008-08-19 17:19:44
148.   Jon Weisman
2008-08-19 17:20:13
149.   bhsportsguy
147 I was surprised he didn't pitch this past weekend.


2008-08-19 17:20:23
150.   trainwreck
If you want one of the elite quarterbacks, then you will need to take one early.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-08-19 17:21:50
151.   El Lay Dave
139 Yes, impressive. In terms of ERA+

Billingsley 142
Kershaw 123
Kuroda 114
Lowe 111
Maddux 98 (because of Petco's park factor of 91)

The staff ERA+ is 121.

2008-08-19 17:29:52
152.   bferb
151 Do you (or does anyone else know) if any other team has all 5 starters with an ERA sub - 4.00 or ERA+ of (nearly) 100 and above? Just curiosity, but I think the Dodgers might be the only team with that distinction...
2008-08-19 18:37:46
153.   scareduck
119 - interesting expansion, thanks for that.
2008-08-19 19:35:14
154.   Gen3Blue
Nothing wrong with hitting ball 4 for a double.
2008-08-19 19:42:17
155.   Gen3Blue
Coudn't advance on that? oh well.
2008-08-19 19:44:33
156.   Gen3Blue
I get the feeling only getting one run on that much hitting is a bad sign for this game.

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