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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

The Password Is 'Ridiculous'
2008-08-24 16:29
by Jon Weisman

Watch for Felix and Oscar's smooth swings ...

Dodgers at Phillies, 5:05 p.m.
Today's Lineups
Los Angeles
Matt Kemp, CF
Andre Ethier, RF
Jeff Kent, 2B
Manny Ramirez, LF
James Loney, 1B
Nomar Garciaparra, SS
Casey Blake, 3B
Russell Martin, C
Hiroki Kuroda, P
Jimmy Rollins, SS
Chase Utley, 2B
Pat Burrell, LF
Ryan Howard, 1B
Shane Victorino, CF
Greg Dobbs, 3B
Jayson Werth, RF
Carlos Ruiz, C
Joe Blanton, P

Comments (461)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-08-24 16:33:37
1.   Tripon
Hopefully Blanton gets knocked out tonight. Dodgers need a laffer to pick up their and my spirits up.
2008-08-24 16:36:45
2.   MollyKnight
Nice work, Ricky Nolasco.

Now let's hope Kuroda is on tonight.

2008-08-24 16:40:08
3.   underdog
And my soccer team won 5-2, and no one got hurt, so let's follow suit in kind, Dodgers! I hope we get good, or at least semi-good, Kuroda tonight, and not the more common Road Kuroda.
2008-08-24 17:04:04
4.   Bluebleeder87
Kuroda needs to summon his inner best today (chi?) let's get 'em boys (in blue) let go!
2008-08-24 17:08:35
5.   Linkmeister
The local munchkins won in Williamsport. If the Dodgers can do as well in the eastern part of the state. . .

2008-08-24 17:10:56
6.   bigE
OK, we're 9 minutes in, and they have already referenced the Kent v. Scully thing twice. Anyone want to set the over/under?
2008-08-24 17:11:27
7.   scareduck
One down.
2008-08-24 17:12:21
8.   scareduck
Never trust a man whose hair is one color and whose beard is another.
2008-08-24 17:15:58
9.   kngoworld
Was that a five ball walk?
2008-08-24 17:17:09
10.   D4P
Nice throw, Pat.
2008-08-24 17:19:22
11.   scareduck
9 - if you beleve the ESPN count it was.
2008-08-24 17:20:18
12.   scareduck
Loney does the good thing!
2008-08-24 17:21:39
13.   Bluebleeder87
now the electricity came back but I can't find my remote...(darn it) I'm gonna have to watch the game in my leaving room.

Nice AB by Ethier fallowed by a nice hit by Kent & Manny Ramirez got hit, now Loney gets a hit to score Ethier. Woo!

2008-08-24 17:22:06
14.   oshea2002
wow - bad ab by Nomar.
2008-08-24 17:22:28
15.   Gen3Blue
Some regular I think it was Underdog, lamented that the way we are going, might we get Joe Morgan on top of everything. Yes we did, and I am afraid I have never seen the D's win while listening to him. Of course Kent couldn't score one the base hit.

Then he says Loney gets a hit because Nomar is behind him! Thats the reverse of the year.

2008-08-24 17:26:19
16.   trainwreck
Actually that was Jon Miller kind of mocking him.
2008-08-24 17:26:36
17.   ucladodger

Miller said that about Loney, but it was a joke, poking fun at the Kent/Manny situation. Nomar killed the inning by swinging at a 2-0 ball. The plate discipline of this team is pretty terrible.

2008-08-24 17:27:18
18.   Gen3Blue
16 I think I liiike it.
2008-08-24 17:28:08
19.   Bluebleeder87
Can't blame Blake there, those high fastballs look very juicy.
2008-08-24 17:28:17
20.   scareduck
That was embarrassing.
2008-08-24 17:28:21
21.   kngoworld
I can't tell if they are mocking Jeff Kent, Vin Scully, or the whole Dodger organization. Either way, its bothering me.
2008-08-24 17:28:27
22.   Tripon
And nomar commits an error. This is going to be a long game.
2008-08-24 17:28:46
23.   ucladodger
If Nomar isnt hitting i'd rather have Hu out there. He's so damn bad out there.
2008-08-24 17:29:35
24.   ucladodger
If Nomar isnt hitting i'd rather have Hu out there. He's so damn bad out there.
2008-08-24 17:32:34
25.   herchyzer
One run scored after all those baserunners is somewhat pitiful. What's the problem here? Slow Kent? Whatever the cause is, it's one of the things that keeps happening to the Dodgers. I follow most games using the periodically refreshing boxscore. We nearly always have a higher overall batting average than the team we play, including the Phill's.
2008-08-24 17:32:56
26.   scareduck
9 - you were right as it turns out. Ethier walked on ball 5.
2008-08-24 17:38:22
27.   scareduck
Painless E6, Dodgers out of the inning.
2008-08-24 17:40:53
28.   bigE
21 I'm going to guess neither of them is a fan of Kent but I agree, it's pretty annoying. If they're going to reference the situation, the least they could do is let the whole audience in on the joke, since I don't know how many people know what they're talking about.
2008-08-24 17:41:30
29.   Bluebleeder87

that is definitely a first for me, wow that's crazy.

2008-08-24 17:46:16
30.   kngoworld
29 First here also, I guess the blame is to be put on the umpire not doing his job. If Ethier would have made an out that would have been a bigger problem.
2008-08-24 17:48:31
31.   Bluebleeder87
at least Kemp had the presence of mind to run on & STEAL 3RD.

weird play non-the-less.

2008-08-24 17:51:42
32.   Tripon
So apprently, Jayson Werth is the equal of Manny.
2008-08-24 17:57:42
33.   Bluebleeder87
Kuroda gets tough with men on base that's good to know.
2008-08-24 18:01:21
34.   Tripon
Part of me thinks Kuroda's never going to be better than a 4th/5th guy. Another part of me thinks that his is only his first year, and he's experiencing the league for the first time. Next year he should be much better. I don't know what to believe.
2008-08-24 18:02:47
35.   scareduck
Looks like Manny got jobbed on the strike one call in that AB.
2008-08-24 18:02:49
36.   Tripon
Manny went into the dugout apprently to check his at bat... or to just use the restroom.
2008-08-24 18:03:14
37.   Tripon
And a DP for loney.
2008-08-24 18:05:09
38.   Tripon
And if you were wondering. Yes, Gammons is still mad as hell about Manny.
2008-08-24 18:05:44
39.   Bluebleeder87
you know what man, I really like the K zone thing on ESPN... sometimes I feel the umps mess up calls & the K zone dont' lye.
2008-08-24 18:06:08
40.   scareduck
Manny strikes out on three pitches, but hey, he gives the Dodgers a great marketing opportunity.
2008-08-24 18:06:52
41.   scareduck
39 - Curt Schilling be damned, I'm all in favor of handing over the K/BB calling job to Questec.
2008-08-24 18:07:26
42.   scareduck
39 - actually, K-zone is mostly acidic.
2008-08-24 18:08:54
43.   Tripon
Did the Dodgers or FSN use something similar to K-Zone? I could have sworn they did but I haven't seen it lately. And yes, Questec needs to accepted by the Umps. Some of these strike zones is ridiculous.

Also, Gammons: Because Martin is Canadian, Martin is wearing down.

2008-08-24 18:09:43
44.   scareduck
If Manny had continued to run full force, he might have caught that foul.
2008-08-24 18:12:15
45.   KG16
I don't like the k-zone, never have. It's a two dimensional pain that is always the same size, even though the strike zone is different for different hitters (particular due to batting stances and height).

Yes, some umps squeeze pitchers. And some umps widen the strike zone beyond belief. But it's been happening since the days of Cy Young. I really would prefer it that way than any other way.

Besides, the first time one of those machines malfunctions, it'll be a nightmare.

2008-08-24 18:12:20
46.   scareduck
Mai Kuroda.
2008-08-24 18:13:07
47.   KG16
45 - when you read "pain", think "pane"
2008-08-24 18:14:00
48.   KG16
and how's the game going by the way, haven't turned on the TV, been watching old Henry Fonda movies on TCM with the folks (mom's b-day).
2008-08-24 18:15:41
49.   scareduck
45 - so, it's more important to have humans making wildly inconsistent mistakes than it is to have a less inaccurate strike zone?
2008-08-24 18:16:28
50.   scareduck
48 - even when I'm at my parents on Sundays, I can turn on the WiFi and follow games on Gameday and/or Gameday Audio.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-08-24 18:16:41
51.   Andrew Shimmin
44- The ball girl was standing between him and the ball. She's probably pretty happy he let it go.
2008-08-24 18:17:27
52.   Andrew Shimmin
48- It's interesting.
2008-08-24 18:20:39
53.   JoeyP
Kuroda's is the Philly stopper.

10 ip
2 hits
1 run
9 ks
2 bbs

2008-08-24 18:22:46
54.   trainwreck
Did Joe Morgan just say Manny was pushing for a Gold Glove?
2008-08-24 18:23:44
55.   JoeyP
That was a nice catch tho, lumbering Manny and all.
2008-08-24 18:23:59
56.   scareduck
54 - affirmative.
2008-08-24 18:25:05
57.   regfairfield
Werth's goatee looks to be caramel kiss.
2008-08-24 18:25:13
58.   The Dude Abides
Yes, he said that Manny was advocating himself for a Gold Glove at the beginning of the season.
/don't shoot the messenger
2008-08-24 18:25:14
59.   Bluebleeder87
for those of you that haven't heard Saito will start throwing from a mound (see how it feels) according to Dodgers Dot Com.
2008-08-24 18:25:45
60.   Tripon
54 I am fairly sure he was joking. ...Fairly sure. I think his point is that Manny might have actually worked on defense this off season, and so was able to make plays he normally isn't known for.
2008-08-24 18:26:05
61.   Bluebleeder87

Like Rob said, he is Mai Kuroda...

2008-08-24 18:26:06
62.   The Dude Abides
Manny>>Burrell at tracking & catching fly balls
2008-08-24 18:27:23
63.   Bluebleeder87

I guess you can say he worked Manny a day to get better.

2008-08-24 18:27:41
64.   scareduck
2008-08-24 18:27:50
65.   underdog
That shot of Gary Matthews in the booth expressing his taste for that strike 3 call was priceless, I have to admit.

Btw, did y'all enjoy Joe Morgan raving about Matt Kemp's baserunning prowess in that second inning. I was shocked but I guess pleased to hear that.

Hope this game remains interesting for awhile longer. Another run or two would be nice.

2008-08-24 18:28:11
66.   underdog
His distaste, I meant above.
2008-08-24 18:28:17
67.   The Dude Abides
Gotta love throwing a 70 MPH curveball to the pitcher.
2008-08-24 18:29:17
68.   The Dude Abides
Bison patience!
2008-08-24 18:29:36
69.   Andrew Shimmin
I'm taking credit for that walk.
2008-08-24 18:30:26
70.   scareduck
Oobee Dubee.
2008-08-24 18:31:36
71.   Gen3Blue
As inconsistent as he has been, you have to give it up to Kuroda for a great game tonight wit almost no support. If he gets on base to lead off an inning, and gets nothing, you got to know it's not going our way--or maybe Morgans broadcasting! Actually the whole problem to me looks like the breaks don't go our way, but one more year and I will have to really look.
2008-08-24 18:31:40
72.   Bluebleeder87
we need some insurance runs.
2008-08-24 18:32:05
73.   JoeyP
Easy DP missed by Phillies.
2008-08-24 18:32:18
74.   Bluebleeder87
I don't know what to make of Blanton's game day pic.
2008-08-24 18:33:28
75.   scareduck
Kent sux0rz.
2008-08-24 18:33:42
76.   JoeyP
Not that time tho.
2008-08-24 18:34:08
77.   The Dude Abides
Considering all the recent talk about young players around the league not hustling, you would think that when a young player (Ethier) does hustle down the line to beat the double play, the veteran announcers would mention it...but no.

And, now Grumpy hits into the DP.

2008-08-24 18:35:02
78.   underdog
2008-08-24 18:35:37
79.   underdog
Kent just missed ripping that previous pitch out of the ballpark, he was too early but that was a hanger. Bummer.
2008-08-24 18:35:42
80.   Tripon
65 Maybe Joe Morgan sees himself in Matt Kemp.
2008-08-24 18:36:16
81.   scareduck
Better than this one.

2008-08-24 18:36:20
82.   Tripon
ESPN is trying to jinx this game!
2008-08-24 18:37:09
83.   Tripon
And they did. :(
2008-08-24 18:37:38
84.   thinkblue88
2008-08-24 18:41:36
85.   The Dude Abides
Regarding games around MLB today: you'd think that the umps would grow tired of being suckered by AJ Pierszynski...but no, he does it again in the final inning, and his team wins. That was the most blatant fake baseball flop I've ever seen, and yet he fooled the umps again. Pathetic.
2008-08-24 18:42:24
86.   trainwreck
Maybe it is just because I hate Joe Morgan so much, but he always seems like he gives such faint praise to the Dodgers and hates to say anything positive about them.
2008-08-24 18:43:07
87.   JoeyP
Dont give Utley anything to hit with 1st base open.
2008-08-24 18:45:13
88.   scareduck
Shutout gone.
2008-08-24 18:46:15
89.   trainwreck
My eyes tell me if Kent's range was not so terrible he could have at least stopped the ball in the infield.
2008-08-24 18:48:20
90.   Andrew Shimmin
I'm not sure Kent can be said to have range, any more. He still has reach, sort of. He can fall down at the ball, too. But I don't think anything he does qualifies as range.
2008-08-24 18:51:20
91.   underdog
Maybe about Kent but that ball looked ripped up the middle. I can't picture many 2nd basemen who would've had it. But it was a good piece of hitting from Utley, too.
2008-08-24 18:51:47
92.   jasonungar07
He has a fantastic fake dive. I thought he would use it there.
2008-08-24 18:52:36
93.   Bluebleeder87

he doesn't even try anymore... he's like, uh, there it goes.

2008-08-24 18:53:38
94.   underdog
That was a super pitch Blanton struck out Manny with. Alas.
2008-08-24 18:54:54
95.   scareduck
89 - I got that impression, too.

Nice play by Victorino to get that Loney fly.

2008-08-24 18:55:14
96.   underdog
Oh man the flying Hawaiian played that so well, and Loney hit that to the one wrong part of the park. He totally ripped that. Darnit!
2008-08-24 18:55:16
97.   JoeyP
Nice catch from Victorino.
2008-08-24 18:56:25
98.   socalcardfan
Jon Miller was telling the story about Charlie Manuel joining the Dodgers in 1974 just in time to witness Henry Aaron's historic 715th home run.

According to, he played four games for the 1974 Dodgers, all in September. Aaron's HR was hit in April.

Anybody got an explanation for that?

2008-08-24 18:58:13
99.   oshea2002
I've found Morgan a bit less annoying then usual tonight.

Great play by Victorino.

2008-08-24 18:59:12
100.   scareduck
98 - watching it on TV?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-08-24 19:00:05
101.   Tripon
Oh, don't pitch hit for Kuroda. Please. We finally have a good pitching performance. Don't muck this up. Please. Please.
2008-08-24 19:02:01
102.   JoeyP
Unbelievable play by Ryan Howard.
Should have been a foul ball.


2008-08-24 19:02:08
103.   natepurcell
Ryan Howard is not going to make a better catch for the rest of his career.
2008-08-24 19:02:20
104.   oshea2002
Wow, this seems to be the Phil's night.
2008-08-24 19:02:36
105.   Tripon
Martin seems to get a lot of foul outs. Also, I don't want to wish anybody hurt but... Howard should have been injured in that play just to make it a agreeable loss on a scoring opportunity for the Dodgers.
2008-08-24 19:03:51
106.   Bluebleeder87
fastball right down the middle & Martin couldn't do anything with it.
2008-08-24 19:04:54
107.   The Dude Abides
Ugh...and now he's leading off in the Phils' half.
2008-08-24 19:05:01
108.   Bluebleeder87
I've always thought Howard wasn't that athletic..
2008-08-24 19:06:20
109.   Tripon
108 He's more athletic than Dunn or Fielder.
2008-08-24 19:07:36
110.   CodyS
108 He is a professional athlete. There's not many John Kruks left.
2008-08-24 19:10:00
111.   JoeyP
Sending Blanton out there for 1 more inning is just asking for trouble.

He's been shaky all night & is over 100 pitches.

Dodgers should score this inning.

2008-08-24 19:10:42
112.   The Dude Abides
One of my early memories of Kruk was watching him bat against a fireballing pitcher (maybe Nolan Ryan). Every time Kruk fouled it back, he would put his bat up to his nose and smell it, to get that "friction burn" scent. Hilarious.
2008-08-24 19:10:45
113.   natepurcell
In relative to other professional athletes, Ryan Howard is athletically challenged.
2008-08-24 19:13:15
114.   Andrew Shimmin
Fiendishly clever of Manual to trick Torre into batting Pierre instead of, um. . .
2008-08-24 19:15:33
115.   scareduck
2008-08-24 19:16:06
116.   scareduck
omg it works out and i am speechless
2008-08-24 19:16:40
117.   The Dude Abides
Slappy scrappiness!
2008-08-24 19:16:42
118.   thinkblue88
2008-08-24 19:18:26
119.   The Dude Abides
Haha...ok let me complete your sentence..."Pierre instead of pinch-hitter extraordinaire who must not be named."
2008-08-24 19:19:28
120.   Bluebleeder87
we must score here.
2008-08-24 19:23:39
121.   Andrew Shimmin
2008-08-24 19:23:49
122.   trainwreck
2008-08-24 19:23:50
123.   JoeyP
Nice job Juan.
2008-08-24 19:23:52
124.   scareduck
OK I feel better now.

Oh, wait ...

2008-08-24 19:24:09
125.   The Dude Abides
Slappy overzealous scrappiness :(
2008-08-24 19:25:02
126.   ryu
If Billy Beane was our GM, Pierre would have been chewed out for that.
2008-08-24 19:25:58
127.   JoeyP
Beane was the GM, Pierre wouldnt be on it.
2008-08-24 19:26:05
128.   oshea2002
I'm won't be surprised if Kemp isn't blamed for not taking strike three and allowing Pierre to steal.
2008-08-24 19:27:17
129.   Tripon
If Logan White was the GM, he'd just DFA Juan Pierre.
2008-08-24 19:27:24
130.   thinkblue88
what an ab!!
2008-08-24 19:27:32
131.   das411
Circular firing squad, commence!
2008-08-24 19:27:40
132.   scareduck
Kemp succumbs.
2008-08-24 19:27:52
133.   thinkblue88
2008-08-24 19:29:36
134.   Tripon
Kemp's AB pays off by tiring out Romero and making Romero walk Ethier.
2008-08-24 19:30:22
135.   oshea2002
Why double switch there instead of taking out Blanton earlier in the inning?
2008-08-24 19:31:16
136.   Tripon
That Mercenary 2 jingle is well, jingly.
2008-08-24 19:34:04
137.   trainwreck
He would? Where have you heard anything like that? I am pretty sure McCourt would not let any GM DFA him.
2008-08-24 19:36:37
138.   Uncle Miltie
Tremendous baserunning by Ethier!
2008-08-24 19:36:47
139.   Bluebleeder87
Nice heads up steal by Ethier & nice AB by Kent.
2008-08-24 19:37:16
140.   oshea2002
I think my fiancee is going to physically attack Jon Miller if he goes to the Kent in front of Manny card one more time.
2008-08-24 19:37:34
141.   das411
104. oshea2002
Wow, this seems to be the Phil's night.


2008-08-24 19:38:10
142.   ToyCannon
Right, you'd have Barton, Crosby, and Chavez instead. Now that is a trio to build your future around.
2008-08-24 19:38:11
143.   Bluebleeder87
we must now hold the lead... I wonder who Torre will bring it for the task at hand.
2008-08-24 19:38:18
144.   JoeyP
Kuo for 2 innings & Brox for 1.
2008-08-24 19:38:58
145.   Tripon
137 I was joking. Although its clear that Ned or the GM who replaces him has to clean house with JP and Andruw Jones. The worst possibility is that Ned trades Ethier away as part of a package to pick up a 2nd or 3rd baseman or a starting pitcher just because he wants to make space for JP and Andruw Jones.
2008-08-24 19:39:08
146.   Uncle Miltie
Chan Ho Park better not be pitching...
2008-08-24 19:39:24
147.   JoeyP
142--Still better than Juan Pierre.
2008-08-24 19:40:28
148.   scareduck
98 - Manuel was traded in October 1973. It's possible he was on the team early in the year but was on the DL. The game in which Aaron hit his 715th homer was April 8, 1974.

2008-08-24 19:40:57
149.   Ken Noe
145 They're benching JP enough that he'll allow a trade, I think, maybe even demand it. LA will have to eat a lot of salary, but they need the salary savings for Manny or CC.
2008-08-24 19:42:06
150.   Uncle Miltie
Joe Torre - manager of the year?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-08-24 19:42:34
151.   Gen3Blue
I think I have come to understand what good Manny and Blake are really doing us. And I certainly have figured out what Nomar and Kent mean. Things may go for us yet. But just as easily they may not.
2008-08-24 19:42:54
152.   ToyCannon
Since Nomar's walk off home run on Aug 13th he has dropped 120 points of OPS with zero extra base hits. Not to be outdone Manny has one XBH during that time. Casey Blake meanwhile doesn't seem to know how to get on base.

Not that Andy Laroche is making any friends in Pittsburgh. He's now approaching Andruw Jones territory.

2008-08-24 19:44:20
153.   scareduck
152 - the Dodgers are the anti-Midases: everything they touch turns to lead.
2008-08-24 19:45:12
154.   ToyCannon
Jason Werth still doesn't do much against RHP but the OBP is solid. Still killing LHP just like 2004.
2008-08-24 19:46:14
155.   scareduck
Wow, nice inning by Park.
2008-08-24 19:46:34
156.   Andrew Shimmin
Daric Barton is going to be a hall of famer. Book it.
2008-08-24 19:47:23
157.   Tripon
Q: Who hits like Andruw Jones and is causing Pirates fans to violate rule one every at bat?

A: Andy LaRoche.

2008-08-24 19:47:39
158.   JoeyP
152--LaRoche's still making contact at least.
2008-08-24 19:48:18
159.   Uncle Miltie
155- agree. I worry that Torre will push his luck and send him back out there against good hitters.
2008-08-24 19:48:50
160.   Ken Noe
LaRoche may just take time, like Navarro did.
2008-08-24 19:49:21
161.   Bluebleeder87
I can not tell a lie, I really thought Park was gonna give up a tatter (tater?) there. I would have trusted my #'s & gone with the pitchers who gives up the least home runs in that situations.
2008-08-24 19:50:02
162.   Bluebleeder87
a lot of us seem surprised Park pitched that inning so well. :o)
2008-08-24 19:50:07
163.   Andrew Shimmin
Clearly Manny is the superior LF in tonight's game.
2008-08-24 19:50:35
164.   Tripon
160 But a team like the Dodgers can't wait several years for a young guy like LaRoche to find 'it'. Well, unless your name Andre Beltre.
2008-08-24 19:50:47
165.   Gen3Blue
2 pitches?
2008-08-24 19:52:02
166.   Tripon
Who hasn't pitched in a couple of days? Tayon Schrutz?
2008-08-24 19:52:18
167.   JoeyP
164--Why not?
2008-08-24 19:53:20
168.   scareduck
161 - "tater". "Tatter" is what one does to the ball, or to one's uniform.
2008-08-24 19:54:30
169.   scareduck
167 - because McCourt has the patience of a two-year-old?
2008-08-24 19:55:12
170.   scareduck
Joe Maddon now looks both old and stupid. Well, stupid-er.
2008-08-24 19:55:23
171.   Tripon
167 Because the current administration couldn't even wait a year to rebuild? I think Jon wrote a similar post, that the Dodgers expect their young players to succeed, and to succeed immediately. And if not, they'll look to replace them with vets like Nomar or Casey Blake.
2008-08-24 19:57:10
172.   Andrew Shimmin
170- I'm not a big video game guy, but even if I were, I think I wouldn't want a video game I paid fifty bucks for to call me names, and make me punt if I didn't want to.
2008-08-24 19:57:12
173.   scareduck
Kuo alert. I repeat, Kuo alert.
2008-08-24 19:57:30
174.   Tripon
Kuo's in! And he won't finish with a sub 2.00 ERA
2008-08-24 19:59:37
175.   das411
Jimmy Rollins for Juan Pierre, anyone?
2008-08-24 20:01:20
176.   thinkblue88
Sweet, Kuroda,Park and Kuo!!

Also, besides Andre, when was the last time the Dodgers acquired a minor leaguer?

2008-08-24 20:01:27
177.   Tripon
175 Gillick's not going to be the GM anymore.
2008-08-24 20:03:26
178.   scareduck
177 - that may be so, but I could see Rollins being moved.
2008-08-24 20:03:48
179.   Tripon
Everytime I think Nomar's is horribly defensively, I remember that Berroa's our defensive backup SS. This is... odd.
2008-08-24 20:03:50
180.   scareduck
My God is Nomar bad at short. That should have been stopped, at least.
2008-08-24 20:03:51
181.   Bluebleeder87
pure cheese to Howard Kuo!
2008-08-24 20:03:54
182.   thinkblue88
Oops. it's only the eight inning, I thought Kuo was in to close. Guess it'll be Ox.
2008-08-24 20:04:08
183.   oshea2002
178 - they're probably looking to move Howard too.
2008-08-24 20:05:37
184.   Tripon
178 Not for JP, he wouldn't be. The only GM dumb enough to make a trade for JP for any kind of talent may be Bowden, and Seaben and Bowden looks to be out in D.C., and Seaben has Wynn, Lewis, and Roberts already.
2008-08-24 20:05:52
185.   John Hale
I was going to ask who pitches to Howard in the ninth.
Burrels hit makes it so that that choice doesn't have to be made.
But would Torre have left Kou in?
2008-08-24 20:06:06
186.   Tripon
180 That was Berroa.
2008-08-24 20:07:05
187.   Andrew Shimmin
176- Sandy Alomar for B.J. LaMura, I think.
2008-08-24 20:07:07
188.   Gen3Blue
No matter what happens tonight it is obvious that the consistant core of this team is Loney, Ethier, Marten and Kemp. Someone put up stats earlier that showed that this is true, except for a recent slight slump by Kenp. I hope that the team keeps with this plan and uses Blake and Manny to get 4 draft choices while we still have Logan White.
I remember an article in BA talking about how while the Dodgers minor league system hadn't hit no 1# it had had an amazing run as no. 2 or no. 3 for many years.
I will be very interested to see how our minor league ranks after two years of Colletti. And I think no matter how much he has spent it will save him.
2008-08-24 20:07:39
189.   Ken Noe
184 Houston's badly run enough to do it. There are others.
2008-08-24 20:07:49
190.   scareduck
I can't believe the boo-birds in Philly. That's two stars who have been booed in this inning, Rollins and Howard. Maybe it's just black players they don't like.
2008-08-24 20:08:35
191.   Tripon
Lidge's in the game. Despite a non-save situation. And So Taguchi's in the game for defensive purposes despite not being a defensive upgrade over Burnell due to Taguchi's age and lost of speed.
2008-08-24 20:09:57
192.   Gen3Blue
Wow, Kemp nailed that, but such is life.
2008-08-24 20:10:17
193.   Tripon
189 I forgot about Ed Wade.
2008-08-24 20:10:25
194.   scareduck
186 - ah, thanks, I missed the double switch.
2008-08-24 20:10:57
195.   Gen3Blue
Ethier is perhaps the best all round player on this team. I love his throws from the outfield.
2008-08-24 20:12:03
196.   Tripon
194 It fooled me too at first glance. I was wondering why Nomar's skin suddenly turned dark.
2008-08-24 20:12:04
197.   Vaudeville Villain

Seriously, what is that junk? Half the fun of Football video games is doing crazy stuff like never punting or kicking field goals, throwing flea flickers three downs in a row, or running fake field goals on first down.

2008-08-24 20:13:16
198.   scareduck
Fasten your seatbelts, it's Broxton time.
2008-08-24 20:13:42
199.   oshea2002
Well, here comes a huge bottom of the 9th. Come on Brox.
2008-08-24 20:13:57
200.   Andrew Shimmin
Bob Costas is wearing his dad's coat.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-08-24 20:14:00
201.   Vaudeville Villain

Who runs Kansas City? Anybody dumb enough to give Tony Pena Jr. as many ABS as he got this year might be tempted by Pierre.

2008-08-24 20:14:31
202.   Bluebleeder87


2008-08-24 20:15:14
203.   Bluebleeder87
I have un-founded nervousness here for Brox.
2008-08-24 20:17:08
204.   superbas
let's do this thing brox!
2008-08-24 20:17:31
205.   Tripon
Does Broxton gets DPs?
2008-08-24 20:19:40
206.   JoeyP
Thank you for bunting.
Stupid Bunter Principle has been invoked.
2008-08-24 20:20:08
207.   fracule
203 Unfounded?
2008-08-24 20:20:34
208.   scareduck
201 - Dayton Moore, former AGM of the Braves IIRC. He has been making a number of good moves from what I can tell.
2008-08-24 20:21:03
209.   scareduck
207 - welcome to the founder's day parade.
2008-08-24 20:21:21
210.   oshea2002
207 - beat me to it.
2008-08-24 20:23:01
211.   scareduck
209 - as I was saying...
2008-08-24 20:23:05
212.   Tripon
2008-08-24 20:23:19
213.   JoeyP
Dont give Werth anything to hit.

Andy Tracy is on deck.

2008-08-24 20:24:27
214.   JoeyP
Werth swung at ball 4.

Good pitching Brox.

2008-08-24 20:24:45
215.   Tripon
That was nuts!
2008-08-24 20:25:45
216.   JoeyP
Andy Tracy- 1st MLB AB since 2004.
2008-08-24 20:26:59
217.   scareduck
This has the scent of a very very bad outcome.
2008-08-24 20:27:35
218.   Tripon
They walked him?
2008-08-24 20:27:45
219.   scareduck
That was bad. As in, not good.
2008-08-24 20:27:54
220.   JoeyP
At least Pedro Feliz sucks too.
2008-08-24 20:28:10
221.   scareduck
218 - on four pitches, none of which were even close.
2008-08-24 20:28:26
222.   confucius
A closer, a closer. My kingdom for a closer.
2008-08-24 20:28:32
223.   oshea2002
No way Morgan insinuated they were pitching around him.
2008-08-24 20:28:50
224.   Tripon
I remember when Broxton had command.
2008-08-24 20:29:04
225.   oshea2002
The first pitch is almost guaranteed to be nowhere near the zone. He's got to stop falling behind.
2008-08-24 20:29:11
226.   Vaudeville Villain
Broxton is wild. C'mon, this is Pedro Feliz.
2008-08-24 20:29:16
227.   John Hale
6 in a row a foot off the plate?
2008-08-24 20:29:52
228.   Tripon
Blown save.
2008-08-24 20:30:04
229.   Vaudeville Villain
Well, that was predictable.
2008-08-24 20:30:11
230.   JoeyP
Well that sucked.

Feliz didnt even hit that well

2008-08-24 20:30:30
231.   fracule
2008-08-24 20:30:33
232.   das411
190 , have you watched those two, ahem, former MVPs put up absolutely no offense over the past month?

In other news...PETE HAPPY!!!

2008-08-24 20:30:47
233.   thinkblue88
oh broxton.......
2008-08-24 20:30:47
234.   ChicagoDodger
Was Kuo doing that bad? Or was it once again managing on auto-pilot?
2008-08-24 20:30:55
235.   Uncle Miltie
Jon Broxton has a great slider, but he seems to refuse to throw it. It's like he's Billy Koch reincarnated.
2008-08-24 20:30:57
236.   JoeyP
Phils fans will have another chance to boo Rollins if he goes 0-5.
2008-08-24 20:31:08
237.   CodyS
Broxton, just not good when it matters. He looked like he wanted to cry in the middle of that Feliz at-bat.
2008-08-24 20:31:26
238.   oshea2002
Broxton does it again. He may be the closer of the future, but he's not getting it done this year when we need it, period. It's time to turn to Kuo and/or closer by committee.
2008-08-24 20:31:29
239.   fracule
I hereby dub Broxton, the 'Not a Closer'.
2008-08-24 20:31:45
240.   John Hale
Does anybody ever hit the ball hard against Broxton?
2008-08-24 20:31:56
241.   Gen3Blue
Well, there is no one as negative, or with as depressing sounding a voice as Joe Morgan.
I'm not surprised at all.
2008-08-24 20:32:02
242.   MC Safety
Numbers shnumbers.
2008-08-24 20:32:03
243.   scareduck
238 - no, he's still Closer of the Future, just not the immediate future.
2008-08-24 20:32:30
244.   Tripon
Maybe we should just have Broxton set up in the 8th, and Kuo close. Or Park close. Or heck, Tron Tron close because this game should have been over.
2008-08-24 20:32:58
245.   Vaudeville Villain
Well, we're out of it, at least.
2008-08-24 20:33:14
246.   JoeyP
Jimmy Rollins is 4-46.

Time for Manny to hit a homer.
Hope the Phils bring in Durbin.

2008-08-24 20:33:22
247.   Greg Brock
Cue the "Broxton isn't a closer" throng.
2008-08-24 20:33:25
248.   MonkeyBlue
My head, it really hurts.
2008-08-24 20:33:30
249.   scareduck
Ah. Rollins grounds out, the inning ends, and the Phans get to boo him once more. All's right in the universe.

I'm guessing he's begging for a trade before 2010.

2008-08-24 20:33:52
250.   das411
NOW do you peepz see why Rollins deserves every decibel of booing he is getting?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-08-24 20:34:02
251.   superbas
eh these dinkers and bleeders against baseball let's go blues
2008-08-24 20:34:16
252.   oshea2002
243 - I'm acknowledging that maybe he is. I would assume he is. But for 2008, he doesn't seem to have the makeup to get it done, so we need to find someone else. I don't know if it's mental, lack of command, or both.
2008-08-24 20:34:31
253.   Greg Brock
Oh, sorry, didn't read the thread first.

Carry on, throng.

2008-08-24 20:35:02
254.   Bluebleeder87
if anything at least we weren't left on the field... I hope we score some runs here.
2008-08-24 20:35:19
255.   Gen3Blue
Broxton was so happy to give up trying to be a starter when he was anointed "closer of the future", but the news is, he may actually have to work, because someone who can throw almost 100, can be a starter if he doesn't have the luck or guts to be a closer.
2008-08-24 20:35:55
256.   JoeyP
See if Durbin can blow his 3rd Dodger game of the year.
2008-08-24 20:36:13
257.   Gen3Blue
Hey, Manny got a hit!
2008-08-24 20:36:29
258.   scareduck
What is this feeling?
Fervid as a flame,
Does it have a name?
Yes! Loathing
Unadulterated loathing
2008-08-24 20:36:51
259.   Tripon
250 Er, no? You might be frustrated with Rollin's slump but its not like he's reaching Andruw Jones's suckitude.

And Loney caught that ball in foul terrority but it didn't hit the ground when it was in Loney's glove? Way is it an issue?

2008-08-24 20:37:00
260.   lukemccain
Brox sux. This guy just does not have a smooth delivery and labors to throw stikes. He needs to get some coaching from Maddux, back off a little and learn to pitch.
2008-08-24 20:37:41
261.   JoeyP
Chad Durbin is exactly what the Dodgers need :)
2008-08-24 20:37:43
262.   Gen3Blue
Morgan is still trying to get an unfair out against the D's last inning.
2008-08-24 20:37:47
263.   superbas
i'm in favor of bunting here {ducks head}
2008-08-24 20:37:50
264.   MMSMikey
how will the dodgers not score here?
2008-08-24 20:38:25
265.   Vaudeville Villain
Getting completely unlucky on a crappy single by Broxton does not indicate that one is 'not ready to close'. It's just bad luck, and as Dodger fans, that's nothing new at all.
2008-08-24 20:38:28
266.   Gen3Blue
Thank god we have Joe and Sweeney.
2008-08-24 20:38:28
267.   oshea2002
ok - Broxton and Pierre for Rollins.
2008-08-24 20:38:54
268.   nick
so the umps are busted for incompetence....that was practically a 60 Minutes episode, though: why so obsessive?
2008-08-24 20:39:12
269.   Tripon
247 I want to believe in Broxton I really do. But he's overthrowing, while other guys like Kuo and Park, and Wade have better command right now. Broxton was facing the weakest part of the lineup and overthrew himself into a blown save. Its great that Torre still has confidence in Broxton, but I'm not sure that Broxton's confident in himself due to all the overthrowing.
2008-08-24 20:39:26
270.   JoeyP
Sweeney doesnt look comfortable bunting.
Let him swing.
2008-08-24 20:39:30
271.   Vaudeville Villain

Sorry, that should say Feliz, not Broxton.

2008-08-24 20:40:25
272.   JoeyP
Dont swing Sweeney.
Let him walk you.
2008-08-24 20:40:37
273.   fracule
265 If it had only been this one game, reaction would be overzealous. But over the last two weeks there is plenty of good evidence against Broxton properly filling that hole right now.
2008-08-24 20:40:47
274.   Greg Brock
Asking Mark Sweeney to bunt is like asking Sweeney to not suck.

Hey, it's a walk!

2008-08-24 20:40:55
275.   oshea2002
265 - if it was just this game, then fine. But that's like his 7th blown save, and he has an era of like 7 in August. Not good enough in a pennant race.
2008-08-24 20:40:58
276.   JoeyP
Wow Chad Durbin really sucks, at least against the Dodgers.

Bases loaded 0 outs.

2008-08-24 20:41:19
277.   thinkblue88
sweet, bases loaded, lets do this blue!
2008-08-24 20:41:27
278.   Tripon
267 More like JP, and Tron Tron for Rollins.

...And the Phillies walked Sweeney.

Hopefully Casey can get a flyout or at least not a DP.

2008-08-24 20:41:33
279.   The Dude Abides
Professional Haircut comes up with a clutch base on balls!
2008-08-24 20:42:04
280.   Gen3Blue
Mark Sweeney--good night.
2008-08-24 20:42:07
281.   oshea2002
wow, that sucked.
2008-08-24 20:42:12
282.   Vaudeville Villain

Dude, dial down the hyperbole. Have you seen his numbers? A guy can pitch well all year, then give up a couple runs, and suddenly he can't close.

Remember when Kuo gave up some runs, and everyone suddenly claimed that he was 'tired'?

Pitchers give up runs. It happens.

2008-08-24 20:42:14
283.   scareduck
265 - were you watching those AB's? Broxton wasn't even near the plate on Andy Tracy's at bat, giving up a four-pitch walk. The next two pitches to Pedro Feliz were just as bad, and on the next pitch Brox gave up a meatball thigh high inside. Garbage, garbage, garbage, and he's been like this in multiple games.
2008-08-24 20:42:20
284.   JoeyP
That was bad luck.
2008-08-24 20:42:43
285.   fracule
2008-08-24 20:42:49
286.   MMSMikey
2008-08-24 20:42:50
287.   MonkeyBlue
Jesus Christ.
2008-08-24 20:43:07
288.   Tripon
2008-08-24 20:43:19
289.   JoeyP
Russ is due.
Looks like they are pitching around him.
2008-08-24 20:43:40
290.   scareduck
283 - that is, it wasn't "bad luck" or any such nonsense, it's that Broxton loses his command with men on base.

Great way to get nothing out of a bases-loaded, nobody out jam.

2008-08-24 20:44:07
291.   Uncle Miltie
And this is where the Dodgers lose. What an awful team.
2008-08-24 20:44:12
292.   MMSMikey
12 hits, 2 runs bases chucked, no outs, dont score, blown saves. im done with this team.
2008-08-24 20:44:34
293.   ucladodger
Only the Dodgers would have scored 2 runs in all of those situations. Only the Dodgers have a closer throwing 100 mph that throws 6 consecutive balls to a AAA player and a guy who has been on the DL for 2 weeks. This is totally pathetic and unacceptable.
2008-08-24 20:44:35
294.   ucladodger
Only the Dodgers would have scored 2 runs in all of those situations. Only the Dodgers have a closer throwing 100 mph that throws 6 consecutive balls to a AAA player and a guy who has been on the DL for 2 weeks. This is totally pathetic and unacceptable.
2008-08-24 20:44:43
295.   scareduck
Also, see 258 .
2008-08-24 20:44:47
296.   MMSMikey
2008 Dodgers: The most un-clutch team ever.
2008-08-24 20:45:19
297.   ChicagoDodger
Be honest. How many thought (with the bases loaded and no out), "watch them not get a run out of this"?
2008-08-24 20:45:23
298.   Bluebleeder87
that wasn't fun to watch.
2008-08-24 20:45:33
299.   sporky
I want to strangle someone, but I don't know who I should strangle.
2008-08-24 20:45:45
300.   thinkblue88
Broxton OPS againt is .607. That's weaker than Pierre type of hitting. He is good, very very good. Only two homers..all year. Yeah it sucks to see him blow a save, but to say he can't close or doesn't have the right type of lipstick or mascara is silly.
And that inning totally sucked.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-08-24 20:45:57
301.   Bluebleeder87

it was in the back of my mind but, geez!

2008-08-24 20:46:40
302.   oshea2002
The top of the 10th was simply unlucky. That stuff happens. Is it just me, or does Martin seem to be inside outing everything now? He seems to be hitting a lot of balls in the air to the right side for the last 10 days or so.
2008-08-24 20:46:53
303.   ChicagoDodger
301 It's just how things are going right now. Can't do anything but watch....or not watch.
2008-08-24 20:46:58
304.   Bluebleeder87
Blake actually had some good #"s in the clutch & against the Philly pitcher. sigh.
2008-08-24 20:47:27
305.   Tripon
Heck, Beimel's should close! You barely use the guy anyway!
2008-08-24 20:47:27
306.   ucladodger
And this all goes back to the great "veterans". Nomar and blake with bad ABs (especially Nomar) the first time around with them loaded. Then Blake puts himself in a hole by missing a hanging slider and hits the ball on the ground in that situation, which you cannot do. I dont care if there are 2 strikes, hit the damn ball in the air.
2008-08-24 20:47:45
307.   scooplew
Like milk left out of the fridge for three days, Blake has turned terribly sour. Time and again at key junctures, he either hits into a DP or strikes out.
2008-08-24 20:48:29
308.   Vaudeville Villain

Thank you.

2008-08-24 20:48:42
309.   ChicagoDodger
302 You might be right, but sometimes I find it too convenient in situations like that to blame it on simply being unlucky.
2008-08-24 20:48:43
310.   milkshakeballa
I don't know what I am suppose to say or feel. The Dodgers know the DBACKS lost. It is a must win game. They blow the save against the bottom of Phillies order. Then they can't score ONE run, ONE FREAKING RUN with the bases loaded and ZERO outs??!?!?!?!??! ONE RUN????? Are you kidding me? I am done tonight. I am sick
2008-08-24 20:48:56
311.   scareduck
300 - he can close in the same way that Ron Santo can sing.

Pig, meet lipstick.

Good closers do not blow 25% of their save opportunities.

2008-08-24 20:49:30
312.   thinkblue88
That last inning reminded me of something Vinny said back in a game in 1999 versus the Dbacks, something like "Here are your 1999 Dodgers, bases loaded, no out, and they couldn't even score a run." I can't believe I remember that.
2008-08-24 20:49:36
313.   MC Safety
What a horrible result. Between Arsenal losing to Fulham and the Dodgers choking every way possible, this has been a crap weekend of sport.
2008-08-24 20:49:43
314.   scareduck
302 - No. That was just not unlucky. He was pitching badly, end of story.
2008-08-24 20:49:51
315.   Greg Brock
I think some people are terribly unfamiliar with how most closers around the major leagues perform.

He's not 2004 Gagne or Saito. Whoopty-freaking-doo. The kid is great, and has been since the moment he came up to the club.

Roaching Broxton is crap.

2008-08-24 20:49:55
316.   JoeyP
Utley just chased ball 4.
2008-08-24 20:50:11
317.   oshea2002
I don't think you can really blame Blake. Yes he missed a good pitch to hit, but you can't blame him for the DP, he had two strikes and hit it hard. Everyone other then maybe Manny and Kent miss easy pitches to hit. The Nomar ab was far worse, swinging at bad pitches with Blanton struggling.
2008-08-24 20:50:16
318.   scareduck
297 - <raises hand>
2008-08-24 20:50:57
319.   milkshakeballa
Unlucky? I'm sorry. But Broxton was NOT unlucky. He threw 6 straight balls to Double AA hitters. He was not unlucky. The 10th inning was unlucky??? Really???? Casey Blake couldn't have had a "professional at bat" and got the ball in the air??? Unlucky???? Are you kidding me?
2008-08-24 20:51:25
320.   ucladodger
The problem with Broxton is he does lose his release point on occasion and throws balls. You cannot cannot cannot throw 6 straight balls to crummy hitters. In the 9th with a 1 run lead all it takes is a walk, a sac bunt and a flare to tie the game. Tonight it was 2 flares but they both came in hitters counts because he fell behind. not to mention walking a guy just called up from AAA on 4 pitches not close to the plate.
2008-08-24 20:51:59
321.   JoeyP
Wow, 11 pitches and Utley just refused to accept the walk.
2008-08-24 20:52:49
322.   confucius
There have been so many people on the dodgers failing to do there job correctly its hard for me to decide who to blame.
2008-08-24 20:53:18
323.   Tripon
315 Explain Broxton's overthrowing then. All he has to do is put the ball in play against Alex Tracy, but he walks him in 4 pitches. Its not even a case of Broxton's living on the margins, he was just missing the strike zone, and couldn't pitch in it with his fastball.

Bemiel's making people miss with so so stuff, but he's showing much better command than Broxton did in the 9th. This is what Broxton's needs to do.

2008-08-24 20:54:04
324.   Vaudeville Villain
Hell of a play by Loney, there.
2008-08-24 20:54:08
325.   ucladodger

You cant blame Blake? He hit the ball hard? What game are you watching? He missed a hanging breaking ball over the heart of the plate. In that situation, you look for a pitch up (which he got) and put it in play (which he didnt). He failed on that pitch. He then hit a weak ground ball to the thrid, which is the absolute worst place he could have hit the ball. You cant blame him for the placement, but you need to hit the ball in the air. The blame is 100% on him and I bet he would even tell you that.

2008-08-24 20:54:16
326.   JoeyP
Loney not as graceful as Howard's, but just as effective.

Nice catch.

2008-08-24 20:54:26
327.   scareduck
315 - I'm sorry, this is garbage. I watch K-Rod on a regular basis. He has his nervous saves, but he nails down the huge majority of his saves. He has his problems -- runners reaching first ALWAYS take second, he cannot control the running game AT ALL, he has occasional problems with the longball -- but the huge, huge, HUGE majority of his save opportunities are converted. Broxton is nowhere NEAR that level. He may be the team's designated closer, but he's just not good enough to be anything like elite.

NICE catch by Loney.

2008-08-24 20:55:29
328.   sporky
I'm pissed, too, but this is bordering on hysteria.
2008-08-24 20:56:32
329.   JoeyP
Joe must be really scared of Howard.
Ryan Howard isnt that good vs lefties...
2008-08-24 20:56:54
330.   Bluebleeder87
I hope the Phillies don't Victorino this game.
2008-08-24 20:57:06
332.   Jon Weisman
I guess the thing that bugs me more than anything is the bellyaching, the "Why does this only happen to us?", the "only the Dodgers could blow this."

A week ago, the Dodgers were playing rather spectacularly, winning early, winning late. Where was the "only the Dodgers" stuff then? You guys are frustrated by not scoring in the 10th? I'm frustrated by short memories.

Look around. This stuff happens all the time to every team. I know it's frustrating, but enough with the rending of garments. Quit feeling sorry for yourselves. You want to quit on the team? Be grownups and quit when they're winning.

2008-08-24 20:57:17
333.   ucladodger
Beimel has the best move in baseball. Amazing.
2008-08-24 20:57:22
334.   Greg Brock
323 He didn't pitch well. Bad walk. Zero balls were hit hard against him.

On a thoroughly mediocre team with fat 18 million dollar non-factors and 9 million dollar noodle-armed turds and an incomp GM, Broxton is the problem. Broxton. Not defense. Not thinking the solution is Greg Maddux. Broxton.


2008-08-24 20:57:24
335.   JoeyP
Ryan Howard, --haha.
2008-08-24 20:57:26
336.   Tripon
What the heck?!? Who told Ryan Howard to steal a base?
2008-08-24 20:57:26
337.   sporky
Thanks, Ryan.
2008-08-24 20:57:41
338.   scareduck
327 - AND I should add I watched Troy Percival for years before that. Neither of them were Gagne ca. 2003-2004. But they were a damn sight better than Broxton.

Thank you for the third out, Howard.

2008-08-24 20:58:45
339.   sporky
Here's a chill pill for everyone.


2008-08-24 20:58:58
340.   Greg Brock
327 Can we wait until we get a decent sample size before we pass judgment? That's all I'm saying, Rob.

It's like people are jumping over each other to condemn the kid.

2008-08-24 20:58:59
341.   MMSMikey
broxton just doesnt have the mental makeup to pitch in the 9th, it doesnt matter how hard you throw, he obviously just cant handle the pressure. if you cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
2008-08-24 20:59:01
342.   MC Safety
Anyone know how Hu has been doing lately?
2008-08-24 20:59:55
343.   oshea2002
323, 334 - I think the truth likely lies in the middle. Broxton is clearly not what's wrong with the team, and is a bright part of the future. But I do think he's struggled recently, and I think maybe sharing the job with Kuo or giving Kuo a shot would be a good move to make.
2008-08-24 21:00:01
344.   Jon Weisman
331 - edited.

331. nick
Broxton ... at times visibly struggles with his command in a way that, imo, dominant closers simply don't do.

Having said that, how many top closers are there. Are there even ten active?

Again, I ask commenters not to use "rule one violation" as a euphemism for a rule one violation.

2008-08-24 21:00:06
345.   Johnny Nucleo
Beimel is a good pitcher. We should use him more.
2008-08-24 21:00:08
346.   milkshakeballa
Jon, with all due respect this is a HUGE game. And when the Dodgers blow this save and can't score with the bases loaded and NONE out, you are going to hear belly aching from a lot of Dodger fans and you know what, its well deserved.
2008-08-24 21:00:08
347.   JoeyP
Who's going to hit a homer to win the game?

I got either Matt Kemp or Werth.

Leaning Matt Kemp.

2008-08-24 21:00:11
348.   das411
Heh this will be a fun game. Let's play with 273 first:

"If it had only been this one game, reaction would be overzealous. But over the last two MONTHS there is plenty of good evidence against JIMMY ROLLINS properly filling ANY SPOT IN THE LINEUP right now."

2008-08-24 21:00:18
349.   Bluebleeder87


2008-08-24 21:00:22
350.   superbas
on the bright side...durbin's still in
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-08-24 21:00:22
351.   scareduck
332 - it's all about what Jeff Kent was talking about in this morning's Times, Jon:

"You guys thought we were going to win the World Series, didn't you?" [Kent] said.

Manny and Blake were going to be the two "big missing pieces". The Dodgers were going to finally jump over the Diamondbacks.

Only, not.

2008-08-24 21:01:11
352.   oshea2002
If we can't win with a walk to Sweeney, a Berroa hit, and picking off Ryan Howard of all people, them I'm at a loss.
2008-08-24 21:01:11
353.   JoeyP
Dodgers must score off of Durbin.
Now he gives up a hit to Berroa.
2008-08-24 21:02:14
354.   scareduck
346 - and frankly, I concur, with the leavening that, as Jon Miller just observed, the Dodgers are WAY outhitting the Phils 13-5, and have stranded 12 baserunners to the Phils' 8.
2008-08-24 21:02:19
355.   Tripon
334 Yes, but those flaws didn't affect on how Broxton pitched in the 9th. If anything that shows how much responsibility Broxton has to close the game. There's little margin for error for the Dodgers and he knows it, and everyone still expects Broxton to still do the job. If he can't handle it then he should relinquish the job and let somebody else handle closing duties, or Torre has to remove him from the job and appoint somebody else.

Yes, Broxton's young. Yes, the team's in the offensive funk. And... he still has to do his job.

2008-08-24 21:02:36
356.   superbas
bleh kemp missing a hanging slider
2008-08-24 21:02:54
357.   JoeyP
Can Ethier do it again?
2008-08-24 21:03:51
358.   Jon Weisman
346 - Then you have misunderstood the purpose of this site. I consider this site a public place, and I don't operate it to have people shout. I operate it as a place where people can find perspective.
2008-08-24 21:05:16
359.   MMSMikey


2008-08-24 21:05:52
360.   sporky
2 runs on 13 hits... that's remarkable.
2008-08-24 21:06:00
361.   Tripon
Jason Johnson's warming up. He should be good enough for 2 and 1/3 of an inning, but then he'll give up a single and then Torre will pull him.

Also, Ozuna in the 3rd spot is outrageous.

2008-08-24 21:06:17
362.   Greg Brock
And... he still has to do his job.

Therefore...What? Demote him back to setup guy for Kuo? Because Kuo has been unhittable, except when he gives up nine-mile bombs in the ninth. Because two or three games apparently dictate a pitcher's worth now.

Of all the guys to complain about, Broxton is like eleventy-fifth on the list.

2008-08-24 21:06:35
363.   thinkblue88
A run on no hits was even better!
2008-08-24 21:06:55
364.   scareduck
358 - I would be more in agreement with you if not for the fact that Frank McCourt has already labeled this a "go for it" year with his high-risk trades.
2008-08-24 21:07:18
365.   das411
Before this game ends, one way or the other, can we all agree on at least one thing?

At least we aren't Mets fans!!

2008-08-24 21:07:37
366.   milkshakeballa
I am not trying to shout Jon, just visibly frustrated.
2008-08-24 21:08:05
367.   Bluebleeder87
I kind of like Jason Johnson here, but let's see how it goes.
2008-08-24 21:08:20
368.   scareduck
334 - On a thoroughly mediocre team with fat 18 million dollar non-factors and 9 million dollar noodle-armed turds and an incomp GM, Broxton is the problem. Broxton. Not defense. Not thinking the solution is Greg Maddux. Broxton.

Total strawman. Nobody's saying Broxton is the biggest problem on the team. He is, however, nothing like an elite closer.

2008-08-24 21:09:06
369.   MMSMikey
manny being manny
2008-08-24 21:09:07
370.   das411
!!!!!! HAWAIIAN!!!
2008-08-24 21:09:16
371.   Vaudeville Villain
Errr, ouch.
2008-08-24 21:09:29
372.   milkshakeballa
362 Broxton's preformence this august moved him up to about top 7 or 8 on the who-to-blame list
2008-08-24 21:10:19
373.   scareduck
368 - and now we can add to that list, noodle-armed left fielders.
2008-08-24 21:10:46
374.   MMSMikey
is ned still No. 1 on the who to blame list?
2008-08-24 21:10:48
375.   JoeyP
Nice loafin Manny.
2008-08-24 21:11:12
376.   Neal Pollack
The Day The Season Died II.
2008-08-24 21:11:19
377.   Tripon
362 Er, yeah? What job allows you to constantly fail or with inconsistent results like Broxton has and allows you to keep your current position? If you can't perform, you should be moved.

...And yeah, I'll be surprised if Victerino doesn't score, the Phillies are due.

2008-08-24 21:11:24
378.   jasonungar07
The password is Ridiculous no doubt.
2008-08-24 21:11:26
379.   milkshakeballa
I do have something that will cheer everyone up here.

The Office - Best moments

2008-08-24 21:11:29
380.   scareduck
362 - Broxton now has seven blown saves. Try again.
2008-08-24 21:11:47
381.   Bluebleeder87
Beimel had Victorino with 2 strikes & he actually made a good waste pitch, you gotta hand it to Victorino man.
2008-08-24 21:12:40
382.   scareduck
374 - no, Frank McCourt, who hired Ned.
2008-08-24 21:12:41
383.   ucladodger
At least Manny's throw was straight...
2008-08-24 21:13:18
384.   JoeyP
Ethier just hugged Manny lol.
2008-08-24 21:13:52
385.   das411
Hamels with a helmet on in the dugout, gotta love it!!
2008-08-24 21:14:41
386.   Jon Weisman
364 - What does that have to do with 358?

I just want people to stop the hysterics. What Frank McCourt does has nothing to do with any of that.

Is what I'm saying so mysterious? I'm not asking people to not be critical. I'm just asking people to act like they've seen a baseball game before.

366 - Everyone's frustrated tonight. That's when it's most important to follow the rules of the site.

2008-08-24 21:14:45
387.   Greg Brock
368 Fine. He's not an elite closer. After fewer than two dozen save chances, we can deem him "not an elite closer."

I don't like his approach on the bump any more than you do, Rob. He's been uncomfortable...That's obvious.

But he's not ruining any seasons. The team is not exceptional, and hopefully he can grow into the role this year, and be the bee's knees when it matters. Which is not this year.

2008-08-24 21:15:17
388.   Vaudeville Villain
Looking at that again, I don't think Manny was loafing, I think he was just sucking at defense.
2008-08-24 21:15:37
389.   Tripon
I'm just saying, we all get mad when guys like Andruw Jones and JP are given chances after chances to keep their jobs when they're not performing. If Broxton can't perform like he has to, then somebody else should get the chance because we can't give games like this away.
2008-08-24 21:15:39
390.   ucladodger

To be fair, you can get a blown save pitching in the 8th inning, where he was for the better part of the year. Tough job where you can get a blown save but not be able to record a save. Thats why his save percentage looks so poor.

But, he has been very bad in august. 5 walks in 10 innings, ERA over 6 more hits than innings pitched. Jon is often very good, but tonights outing was very frustrating.

2008-08-24 21:16:20
391.   das411
2008-08-24 21:16:34
392.   Bluebleeder87
man I'd hate to be a manager on games like this.
2008-08-24 21:16:39
393.   JoeyP
Werth's gonna win the game unless he's asked to bunt.
2008-08-24 21:16:55
394.   das411
Er, sorry for the shouting. Let's see what JWerth does with this!
2008-08-24 21:17:47
395.   nick
331--sorry, Jon.

Looking at Broxton's numbers for this year, it sure seems like he just gives up hits at the wrong time: nothing wrong with K rate or HR rate. But watching him pitch, it sure seems obvious when he's struggling.

2008-08-24 21:19:22
396.   JoeyP
Jason Johnson can get Cole Hamels.
He can do it.
2008-08-24 21:19:28
397.   Tripon
Cole Hamels is Pitch Hitting? He's not pitching in the next inning right?
2008-08-24 21:19:41
398.   ucladodger
Hamels has a gorgeous swing for a pitcher.
2008-08-24 21:20:01
399.   sporky
397 It's pinch hitting.
2008-08-24 21:20:10
400.   Tripon
Well, that was odd.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-08-24 21:20:11
401.   Jon Weisman
I admit, I thought I was looking at the Tim Leary game in reverse.
2008-08-24 21:20:50
402.   das411
Hey scareduck, are the phans at the ballpark supporting their players enough in this inning?

Oh, Cole popped out...good thing Pedro Feliz isn't any good...

2008-08-24 21:20:50
403.   scareduck
386 - I just want people to stop the hysterics. What Frank McCourt does has nothing to do with any of that.

Again, I disagree. McCourt is setting the tone and building expectations (unreasonable as I believe them to be, and so far has been borne out) for a winning season that will lead to at least a division victory. Not beating teams that are in better divisions with better records is still a likely result, but I can totally understand people not recognizing that one or two players are not the team, and that the fundamental issues facing the Dodgers are not going away just because they got Manny.

And I totally do not understand why Manuel didn't call for a suicide squeeze with one out and a man on third.

2008-08-24 21:20:51
404.   Bluebleeder87
I don't know about you guys but Jason Johnson reminded me of a western movie when he notted to Russell.
2008-08-24 21:21:13
405.   scareduck
Happy Pete wins it on the first pitch. Wow.
2008-08-24 21:21:16
406.   Vaudeville Villain
Ugh. Pedro Feliz?
2008-08-24 21:21:16
407.   Tripon
And Feliz gets a 3 run homer. Yeah, fitting end.
2008-08-24 21:21:31
408.   JoeyP
Jason Johnson:
Ryan Ludwick & Pedro Feliz.

Bad loss.

2008-08-24 21:21:46
409.   MC Safety
Hah. Johnson is Bombko all over again.
2008-08-24 21:21:49
410.   thinkblue88
hahahaha....pedro feliz.................i love the dodgers. hahha.
2008-08-24 21:21:53
411.   lukemccain
Losing this game was inexcusable for a team that wants to play in October.
2008-08-24 21:22:09
412.   oshea2002
I'm gonna need a serious thumping of UVA on Saturday.
2008-08-24 21:22:20
413.   jasonungar07
I can just see Ned muttering to someone how he knew he should have signed that guy.
2008-08-24 21:22:20
414.   Indiana Jon
The problem on this site is that there are too many optimists. The optimists start every day expecting the Dodgers to win. If they win then it's an OK day. If they lose the optimists get angry. Try being a pessimist like me. It's a much more enjoyable life. I expect the Dodgers to lose every day. When they do, it doesn't surprise me. When they win, it's totally unexpected and I go to bed extremely happy.
2008-08-24 21:22:29
415.   Jon Weisman
403 - Rob, again, that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
2008-08-24 21:22:56
416.   Bluebleeder87
oh man...
2008-08-24 21:23:05
417.   JoeyP
At least the Dbax lost.
2008-08-24 21:23:08
418.   sporky
Let the TRUE hysterics begin.
2008-08-24 21:23:35
419.   Greg Brock
380 Try again

You're right. He sucks. Trade him.

What is your point here? Who would you like to be the closer? Kuo? Okay, fine, whatever.

I'm over this whole argument, as I'm sure you are. Broxton doesn't have the closer mentality and he's terrible and he's cost us the NL pennant.

"Try Again" made me want to challenge Rob to a duel.

2008-08-24 21:23:51
420.   das411
220. JoeyP
At least Pedro Feliz sucks too.

410 , agreed. Gnight, all!

2008-08-24 21:24:13
421.   Tripon
Well, we can scratch JJJ off the potential closer list.
2008-08-24 21:26:11
422.   sporky
419 For whatever little it's worth, I agree with you about Broxton.


2008-08-24 21:27:21
423.   scooplew
The foundation to this game was built in the 1st inning when Garciaparra and Blake failed to deliver and then reinforced by many of the Dodgers at several key junctures along the way. I expect that the hangover from tonight's bitter loss will result in a blowout by the Phillies tomorrow.
2008-08-24 21:27:27
424.   lukemccain
If Broxton had JJJ's control, we would have won.
2008-08-24 21:28:40
425.   thinkblue88
All I know is that we swept this team last week. That was fun.
2008-08-24 21:29:21
426.   OaklandAs
Since Saito was injured on July 12, Broxton has 10 Saves and 2 Blown Saves. He also has 2 Losses and 1 Win when he entered a Tie game.
2008-08-24 21:29:23
427.   Bluebleeder87
Dodgers Dot Com reports that Saito will throw off a mound in a few days, I'm not gonna get my hopes up with that but it sure would help having him back.

We win this game if he was still healthy.

2008-08-24 21:30:10
428.   Snake in Philly
So frustrating being at a game and having absolutely no confidence when you see your closer come into the fact, what's the opposite of confidence? I know that some will argue that stats do not back up this fear, but I bet most of you feel a similar way when Brox comes in right now.

Anyway, I'm a longtime reader and follower of the site and this is my first time posting. Bill$ needs to play stopper tomorrow night.

2008-08-24 21:32:05
429.   Bluebleeder87

Numbers don't lie I guess but I still don't trust 'em. hey man, I hope he becomes a great closer for us but for now, my brain says watch out.

2008-08-24 21:33:10
430.   RELX
For me, the issue with Broxton is more about next year. While I of course didn't want Saito to get hurt, I thought his injury provided an excellent opportunity for Broxton to get a trial run as the closer, so that the team could determine whether or not to give him the job next season, or else try and resign Saito or another closer. The jury is still out...
2008-08-24 21:33:41
431.   Tripon
Broxton has command issues right now. The Dodgers can't really afford to let Broxton work out his command issues in the 9th inning with a one run lead.
2008-08-24 21:34:05
432.   Bluebleeder87
it was great going threw the roller coaster ride of emotions with y'all.
2008-08-24 21:34:16
433.   oshea2002
The end of the men's vball final is on nbc right now - at least in the central time zone.
2008-08-24 21:37:28
434.   Zak
How about a little perspective here amidst a lot of whining? It sucks to have lost tonight and the last three days, but we are 3 games out of 1st place and tomorrow is our toughest game of the rest of the season, except for the six games against AZ. We still are in a good situation, chasing a team that is hardly convincing as well.

I love Brox and have never criticized him. It is not up to me to say that he can be an elite closer or not. He is 24 and a very good reliever. But, the fact is that he has cost the Dodgers about 3-4 games in a very short period of time. There is no doubt that if he had pitched in August as he has all year, we'd be in a better situation. But again, he is 24, he is our best option and please, leave off the Kuo chants. He was not much better when given the chance.

2008-08-24 21:38:19
435.   scareduck
414 comes pretty close to my feelings here. Post-Manny, people expected to be watching a team that isn't playing .500. They are, and it stinks. The Manny trade is as close to instant gratification as it gets in baseball, and the Dodgers are still mediocre. That hurts. The point, Jon (addressing 415 ), is that you're expecting people to be level-headed about the Dodgers. I really don't understand how you can't seem to make that connection. Winning is what the Dodgers are supposed to do post-Manny.

419 - You're right. He sucks. Trade him.

This is exactly the problem I've had with every one of your posts on this subject in this thread. You keep introducing strawmen, addressing arguments that nobody is making (I never said Broxton had no value, nor that he should be traded), making factually incorrect statements (Broxton's problems amount to much more than one or two games)... Should Kuo be the closer? Sure, for now. But that's almost beside the point.

2008-08-24 21:42:15
436.   Bluebleeder87

I wear my optimism as a badge of honor. & from what I understand we live a lot longer too.

2008-08-24 21:42:55
437.   Andrew Shimmin
433- It's the closing ceremonies, out here. Pretty convincing air guitar for Mr. Page.

David Beckham is not a closer!

2008-08-24 21:44:41
438.   Andrew Shimmin
435- People don't have to be level headed about it, if they don't want to be, but DT is not a rubber room. That's Jon's point.
2008-08-24 21:45:54
439.   Bluebleeder87
another thing is i wish BOB was here to tell us how many times a baseball player has drawn a 5 walk AB.
2008-08-24 21:47:58
440.   nofatmike
437 "Pretty convincing air guitar for Mr. Page."

The same cannot be said for his actual guitar playing.

2008-08-24 21:48:42
441.   Jon Weisman
435 - I expect people not to act like this is the worst team in baseball. I expect people to operate within the decorum of this site. That is all.

I have never said people couldn't be upset, frustrated or disappointed.

I want the Dodgers to win every game no matter who owns the team, manages the team or plays for the team. But when that doesn't happen, I recognize that that was a distinct possibility from the start. The best teams in baseball lose almost 40 percent of the time. I expect people here to understand that.

Most importantly: I don't care a whit how upset you get offline. Here, a certain civility is required. I really don't know how much more clear I can be about that.

2008-08-24 21:48:54
442.   Tripon
Chess Boxing needs to be an Olympic sport. That is all.
2008-08-24 21:49:25
443.   Jon Weisman
438 - Exactly.
2008-08-24 21:50:32
444.   ToyCannon
DeWitt went 5 for 5 today and has 11 hits in his last 4 games including 6 XBH. Just trying to throw some good cheer out there.

When Manny doesn't hit, this team doesn't score, kind of like how it was before he joined the team.

If we can't hit Kendrick or Blanton, Myers is likely to make mince meat out of us. If Manny can't hit Blanton he must really be in a slump.

On the positive side, the critics of the Manny trade felt we were weakening our team for the future by picking an ill-advised run for the present. Not counting on LaRoche in 2009 might end up being a good thing. Even a wrist injury can't explain away his foray into the depths of Marteville.

2008-08-24 21:51:11
445.   Greg Brock
435 Because your arguments are ridiculous. You're willing to label Broxton as a "can't get it done in the ninth" guy after, essentially, one fifth of ONE season. It's ludicrous.

But Kuo should close. Because he has tons of experience as a closer and no history of arm problems. At all. And he has the closer mentality, apparently. I don't know. I haven't gotten him on the psych couch yet.

We just agree to disagree. And it's devolving into a snarkfest, so get one more shot in and we'll be done with it.

2008-08-24 21:53:38
446.   Tripon
444 People who are criticizing the Manny trade would just point out that people now say that Bryan Morris is the prospect we'll miss the most now. Who are these people? Apparently random anonymous scouts Gammons talked to.
2008-08-24 21:55:40
447.   Johnny Nucleo
436 I really appreciate that quality in you, Bluebleeder.
2008-08-24 21:57:03
448.   Tripon
446 Also, I was trying to make a joke in this post. After reading it, it comes off at best horribly sarcastic.
2008-08-24 21:57:08
449.   ToyCannon
They may be right. Before surgery he was a number pick for a reason, but by the time he reaches the major leagues even Juan Pierre will need a new contract.
2008-08-24 22:01:57
450.   scareduck
445 - 7/17 = 41% of Broxton's save opportunities turn into blown saves. He should not, at this time, be the team's closer, full stop. If you think this is ridiculous, why? Because you like watching him walk AAA players on four pitches?
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2008-08-24 22:03:13
451.   Andrew Shimmin
Jon also doesn't care if we swear or discuss politics off line. Or even on other websites. He's quite a guy. If you call a no-hitter a no-hitter, though, even off line, he might come after you. So watch it.
2008-08-24 22:05:00
452.   thinkblue88
Then who do you use?
Kuo? He is 1/4.
It's either Kuo or Broxton, both are not going to be 100 percent. And if not them, then who?
2008-08-24 22:05:42
453.   bhsportsguy
449 I always thought that his injury and Scott Elbert's kept the Dodgers out of play last off-season, had Morris and Elbert pitched well and stayed healthy in 2007, the Dodgers might have had Miguel Cabera or maybe even someone like Dan Haren.

Morris was 19 when he was drafted so he may or may not get an extra year before he has to be protected on the 40-man roster but if not, he will need to be protected after the 2009 season and by all looks, he will still need some more time to develop after that.

2008-08-24 22:05:43
454.   Tripon
451 Did Jon go after Miller and Morgan for jinxing Kuroda's no hitting in the bottom of the 4th.
2008-08-24 22:06:57
455.   Andrew Shimmin
454- Announcers are exempt.

But, if some unfortunate incident should happen to befall either, it would not come as a great galloping surprise.

2008-08-24 22:08:24
456.   Jon Weisman
2008-08-24 22:09:06
457.   Jon Weisman
451 - Wow, I didn't realize how well Andrew knew me.
2008-08-24 22:10:40
458.   Greg Brock

7/17 = 41% of Broxton's save opportunities turn into blown saves.

Because 17 save chances dictate a player's worth.

He should not, at this time, be the team's closer, full stop

Why? This is not a playoff team. Let the kid work the ninth, and figure out if he's the guy to lock down the ninth. The Dodgers are not a playoff team. You know it, I know it, we've known it since May. Hand the guy the ball and let him learn.

Because you like watching him walk AAA players on four pitches?

Yes, Rob. I enjoy watching this. It makes me happier than anything on planet earth. Happier than a pint of Firestone and a fat dip of Skoal. I love watching Broxton fail. Can we just give the kid the ninth inning and let him grow into it?

2008-08-24 22:11:00
459.   ToyCannon
Totally agree.
2008-08-24 22:11:20
460.   LogikReader
I'm back. [crickets]

Wow. I don't think it's fair to criticize Broxton as the sole reason the Dodgers lost the game. I've only read the last few comments, and basically its a debate between Broxton vs. Kuo. But frankly, it's as simple as this:

1. Broxton struggles with guys on base. Fair enough... we can see that he doesn't have the mentality.
2. The Dodgers are not getting it done at the plate. but... what boggles the mind is... HOW? Most of the team OPSed over .800 in the last 7 days. Even poor Russell Martin is OPSing over .800 this week despite being dropped to 8th. Yet, the Dodgers continue to score 3, 3, 3, 1, 2, 2 runs in each game.

Good to be back... I took a sabbatical after the dismal Giants series... only to return after a dismal Phillies series.

2008-08-24 22:16:36
461.   ToyCannon
If Broxton wasn't blowing saves then maybe this would be a playoff team. Crap if we are not playing for the playoffs then bench Nomar, play Hu, bench Kent, play DeWitt, bring up McDonald, and release Maddux.

How can a team 3 games out on Aug 24th not be considered a playoff team? Were we not a playoff team a week ago?

What is pathetic is that both you and Rob agree that this team has no right to try to play for a playoff spot but you can't agree on how not to make that happen.

2008-08-24 22:23:48
462.   fracule
458 Closer has never ever been a trial by fire job. You either can, or you can't. There are no let's see what happens over the course of 20 games with a closer. You can either throw strikes when you have to or you can't. The best closers are effective from the moment they are put into that situation.

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