The Marathon should have a segway division.

1 I see multiple GOB references in 3, 2, 1...

I guess this means McCourt has a pot of money he's willing to spend on the marathon but not on the Dodgers. Not that I blame him: I wouldn't want Ned spending my money either.

to be fair, he is spending quite a bit of money on the Dodgers it seems. He's done extensive renovations on the stadium and has a pretty high payroll from top to bottom.

picking up the last thread... I can't help but wonder if APS (average plus slugging) would not give us a better evaluation than OPS? We see the difference, according to the numbers reg posted, that the difference between AVE and OBP is about .050, but I would think that it overvalues walks to a large degree.

Maybe he'll reassign Ned to run the marathon!

One beam of light in the recent gloom is the continuing ascendancy of Ethier over Pierre. I hope that carries over to 2009.

5 You could find the answer in five minutes with Excel.

Have the matchups been announced for this weekend? Right now ESPN has Arizona throwing Petit, Davis and Haren against us, but what is stopping them from doing this and going for the jugular?
SD SERIES
Aug. 25th- Haren
Aug. 26th- Webb
Aug. 27th- Johnson
Aug. 28th- OFF
LA SERIES
Aug. 29th- Petit
Aug. 30th- Haren
Aug. 31st- Webb
STL SERIES
Sept. 1st- Davis
Sept. 2nd- Johnson
Sept. 3rd- Petit
Sept. 4th - OFF
LA SERIES
Sept. 5th- Webb
Sept. 6th- Haren
Sept. 7th- Johnson

If so 5 out of the 6 games vs. Johsnon, Webb, and Haren all on normal rest. That could be serious trouble.

6 It'll be interesting to see if Ethier blocks players like Andrew Lambo and Kyle Russell in 2010/2011.

Excel regression analysis is awesome. I was terrified to do that stuff in the first college stats class I took, but it got easier & easier.

Excel has to be the best program Gates ever designed

7 - if I knew how to use excel beyond the most basic items, that would probably be true. But since I only use it for easy tables, probably not so true.

6 Maybe he'll change the marathon from 26.2 miles to 90 feet, and reassign Pierre to run the "marathon."

8 Those two series against the Cards for the D'backs looks brutal. I wouldn't juggle my lineup for the Dodgers to give myself an edge against the Dodgers, and then put myself a disadvantage against a better team like St. Louis.

11 From 2007

OPS: .948
APS: .931

8 At least we will have Billz and Lowe going twice against them. That should help. Also, it will be hard for AZ to win a single game against STL with those SPs.

I feel like we only have to split with AZ and the schedule actually favors us to make up the three games. So, as long as we don't get swept in AZ and we can have a good showing in WAS, I think the Dodgers should do ok.

14 - interesting. would anyone consider .017 to be a statistically significant difference?

Before our game starts, I left out a very good restaurant from our Burger discussion some weeks back.

Islands!

Now they include fries with the burgers. I went for the first time on Sunday. Those bad boys were delicious. Mmmm... Kilauea is right in my wheelhouse.

Anyway, back to business.

16 I see your point. Why use something not as accurate though?

What's the theoretical rationale for combining BA and SLG? I don't really see one. For one thing, there's a lot more double-counting in that then there is in adding OBP and SLG.

16 - Even if you think walks are overvalued, why do you want to eliminate them entirely and then undervalue them?

The other problem with BA and SLG is that they completely ignore walks. It's as if we're supposed to believe no one ever scores after drawing a walk.

17 You should try Five Guys. Better fries than Inn & Out. And they give free toppings of bacon on everything.

15
Also, it will be hard for AZ to win a single game against STL with those SPs

Even if St. Louis was a 70/30 favorite in each game of the series, the chances of a sweep are only 34.3%.

Arizona is 23-29 in games started by the trio noted above.

22 Isn't there only one five guys on this side of the country?

And they give free toppings of bacon on everything

Not free for the pigs.

Wouldn't a walk to Rickey Henderson be more valuable then a walk to Mike Scoscia? Is any of that put into consideration of the analysis?

Marathon... hmm...

"Is it safe?"

"I don't know what you mean. I can't tell you something's safe or not, unless I know specifically what you're talking about."

24 In Carson, and they're opening up a place in Cerritos I think. But I live in Torrance and pass by the Carson franchise on the 405 every day to drive to UCI, so its an option for me.

24
Plus it is in Carson. Who drives to Carson to eat a burger except someone who lives there?

0
I'd rather have Carlos Santana in tow and the Marathoners can find somewhere else to toil.

26
Well, part of what you're getting at is that many of these statistical analyses produce "average effects". In other words, let's say that we were studying the effects of college education on incomes, and we found (hypothetically) that college graduates make $30,000 more on average than do non-college graduates.

We would expect to find some college grads who made more than $30,000 more, and some who made less than $30,000 more. We'd also probably find some non-grads who made more than some grads.

By the same token, if we find that a Walk increases Runs Scored by an average of X, we'd find some players for whom a Walk increase Runs by more than X and some less than X.

13 They don't have to beat St Louis to get into the playoffs but they must beat L A.

29 People in Torrance!

Okay, I live in nowhereville. I admit it, but I want to move back to the city, I really do. :(

regarding being Dogmatic, I think the point is that those of the "old-school" refuse to change their ways, whereas those in the "new-school" are willing to change their ways you just have to provide some type of quantifiable evidence that would elicit such a change

30
McCourt can spend his money the way he wants, but it would still be kinda lame if we are giving away players (instead of taking on salary) just so he can buy the marathon.

combining batting average and slugging percentage makes sense because they are based on the same denominator, the same factors are considered in determining both.

I do think that many old schoolers undervalue walks, but I think many new schoolers over value walks. I have never suggested that "no one ever scores after drawing a walk", that would be an asinine thing to say.

Personally, I don't think combining any of the stats tells us much. In fact, I probably tell us less. I tend to prefer the BA/OBP/SLG approach to evaluating players. I can quickly determine the frequency with which a player walks, the type of hits a player gets, and how often he gets a hit. OPS or APS don't tell me that information. As D4P suggests, there's a whole lot of double counting when you start adding these numbers together, and that blurs the relevant information.

25
http://tinyurl.com/6faply

33 Hey don't diss Torrance. It's at least adjacent to interesting things.

31
The averages seem pointless when you only have 600 players you need to evaluate.

32 I agree, and LA vs. Ari games are 2 game swings if you win or lose. I'd rather load up against LA if I were Az.

I think the point is that those of the "old-school" refuse to change their ways, whereas those in the "new-school" are willing to change their ways

With the exception of the really young "new-school" folks, I would guess that most "new-schoolers" (myself included) have changed their ways. Most of us around here no doubt grew up worshiping BA, RBIs, etc., and changed our minds based on convincing advances in research and analysis that not only look good on paper, but that make sense in theory.

17

I ended up going to Pie 'n Burger after that discussion to give them one more try. I was really impressed by the burger this time. Great overall package (bun, lettuce, tomato, cheese, excellent meat, and great Thousand Island dressing). However, it is the price that knocks it down for me. It should probably be about $1 less for every item on the menu.

You know, I generally like Islands, but any time I suggest it, I am shot down.

28 - why in the world would you commute from Torrance to Irvine, every day? I commute from Yorba Linda to Lake Forest (just south of Irvine) every day and hate it. And I love to drive.

My favorite part of the McCourt marathon story was this clarification:

"McCourt, who stays physically active but doesn't run marathons ..."

38 But Torrance itself is pretty dang boring. Not as boring as Irvine, but close to it.

22

I had my chance at Five Guys in NY and I blew it. Ah well... I'll give it another shot when I return.

38

Like RPV?

43
I commuted from Woodland Hills to Irvine for a year. Obviously you do it because that is where the job is and you happen to like where you currently live.

45 Believe me, I know. I pulled the same thing (minus the commute). I still don't get how you can have every business adjacent to a college close at nine.

43 Summer session at UCI, and didn't bother to try to find summer housing. I am moving back to Irvine in the fall. And I don't mind the commute that much, and when I started commuting to and from UCI(back in Fall of 07), gas was only $3.05-$3.25 and I was only paying $30-35 bucks a week, a small price to pay compared to rental rents around UCI. With gas prices over 4 dollars for most of the year, its not such a good plan at the moment.

49 - three words: master. planned. community.

51 That's some really poor planning on their part.

"Should we put a bar next to this college?"
"Nah, I think a children's dance studio would be way more popular"

41 I guess that was kind of my point. Thanks for saying it better than I :)

combining batting average and slugging percentage makes sense because they are based on the same denominator, the same factors are considered in determining both.

But you're adding the same thing over and over. Think about it: in your numerator, if a player hits a single, you add a "1" for BA and a "1" for SLG. If a player hits a double, you add a "1" for BA and a "2" for SLG. Triple = "1" for BA, "3" for SLG. HR = 1 for BA, 4 for SLG. What's the point in adding the 1s for BA? Why not just use the 1, 2, 3, and 4 from SLG? Plus, again, you're ignoring Walks.

I do think that many old schoolers undervalue walks, but I think many new schoolers over value walks.

But the value they place on walks is not abstract or theoretical: it's the result of statistical analyses that reveal the value of walks. They're not making it up. If you want to disagree, you essentially have to show that the analyses they're performing are flawed.

I have never suggested that "no one ever scores after drawing a walk", that would be an asinine thing to say.

But that's essentially what you're saying when you advocate a new stat (BA+SLG) that doesn't include walks over an existing stat (OBP+SLG) that does.

Personally, I don't think combining any of the stats tells us much. In fact, I probably tell us less. I tend to prefer the BA/OBP/SLG approach to evaluating players.

The issue is that OBP*SLG correlates more strongly with Runs Scored than do BA or OBP or SLG by themselves, which when you think about it, makes perfect sense.

OBP is good because it tells us how often a player gets on base, which you need to do in order to score. But it leaves out how far around the base baths the player gets.

SLG is good because it tells us something about how far around the base paths the player gets, but it leaves out how often they get on base in the first place.

Combining OBP and SLG, while not perfect, allows us to some extent to enjoy the benefits of both stats, while filling in some of the gaps in each.

52 At least they finally have a pub on campus. Although I never have the chance to drink at the pub due having classes packed together. Decent pub fare though.

I commuted from Venice to Sylmar (far end of the SF Valley) every day for a couple of months for a film production job and wanted to commit suicide after a few weeks of it. Of course, I had to be there at 630AM usually so the traffic wasn't that bad at least!

I don't miss those days at all.

55 Yeah, they had that until they decided to close down the student center for the last three years I was there.

48 That must have been BRUTAL. My current Northridge to El Segundo run is at my limit.

I commuted from Long Beach to San Diego for about 9 months. It was awful. Now my commute is half a mile, and 9-10 minutes door to door if I walk.

Speaking of burgers... if you're ever in Long Beach go to Dave's on Atlantic and Wardlow, right off the 405. It's just a little stand and they don't make fries, but the burgers are amazing.

55 - Yeah, that pub was the only place within miles of campus, back when I was there... like an oasis, it was. At least for us Philosophy majors who needed a place within stumbling distance to engage in our debates!

56

My wife used to work in Sylmar. Those are not fond memories.

I'm guessing all you commuters had to drive, too. Longish commutes aren't as bad if you can bus or train, since you can sleep, read, laptop, etc. But driving long distances is pretty much a waste of time, not to mention other resources.

23 Eric, Sorry if I made it sound like Arizona was going to get swept against St. Louis. I just meant that they would struggle more to win games in any series where both Webb and Haren are not pitching. That's all. I just meant that it is unlikely that they will have games where the SP will dominate for them resulting in an easy win. I hope they get swept, but I understand they probably won't.

Just stumbled upon Brad Ziegler's stats, including '07 AA and AAA stats he hasn't given up a HR in 147.2 innings. I don't know when the last one he gave up in '06 was but I'm sure you can add at least a few more innings to this total.

63 Yep. One of the several reasons I moved back to SF eventually. (At least now there are some more train/light rail options in the LA area than there were back then.)

66
If I coming from East Bay on BART, what is fastest way to get to Golden Gate Park area? I have never used the buses in SF.

It looks like we will miss Jake Peavy during the home series against SD next week. It will be really really depressing if we don't win all of those games. Again, I understand we probably won't, but we really should.

It looks like we will miss Jake Peavy during the home series against SD next week

It sure seems as if we have missed an inordinate number of other teams' best pitchers this year.

67 When I went to Golden Gate Park over the weekend from the East Bay, I got off at Embarcadero and took the MUNI "N-line" and got off somewhere around 19th and Judah or 31st and Judah. You could stay on BART until Civic Center and still get on the N-Line.

If you use BART, you can get a 25 cent discount on MUNI (so it costs $1.25 instead of $1.50) by grabbing a stub from a dispenser right after you get off the escalator from the BART tunnel but before you exit the BART area (ie, before you push the BART ticket through the machine and cross the gate). I think.

64
Yeah, I think I over thought that one. Trust me, I don't want AZ to shuffle their rotation against us, though. :)

It would be really cool if both STL and AZ are in a tight race when they meet the last week of Sept. We have a 10 game road trip in Sept against sub .500 teams, but SD always plays us hard, and we make heavy lifting of it in COL. I hope we are within 1 or 2 games going into that last week.

69.
Yet the crappy ones still pitch great against us anyways.

69 Agreed. But it seems like we always end up facing Webb, so that sucks. Peavy and Webb have killed us over the years. And they're both young and not leaving our division any time soon.

I worked in Torrance 13 years and lived there 7.
Good things: Next to Redondo Beach, Snax Superburger, The Crest bar, the temperature.
Bad things: Relatively few trees, really bad ranch-style homes, what trees there are are covered in aluminum foil at Xmas time, refineries that explode occasionally.

67/70 - What fanerman said. Except you can also take the N and get off much earlier, if you get off at Stanyan you can walk down to the Stanyan entrance to park. Or get off at 9th avenue and walk down that way to where the museums are.

You can also transfer to the 5 Fulton bus or 21-Hayes bus or 71 Haight bus and take those along either side of the park (pick up on any Market street BART stop).

--

Okay, here we go Dodgers, time to begin your Wake Up and Smell the Coffee Tour!

5 Guys burgers, I must say, are massively overrated.

And really bad for you; a regular burger with fries there is about 1400 calories.

We may be in a crappy division but with Peavy, Webb, Haren, Lincecum, Cain, Billingsley, and Kershaw we could put together quite a group of youngish rotational stars.

I know it seems that way, and it's happened more than we'd like, but if the crappy pitchers always fared well against the Dodgers they'd be below, well below, .500. And we've missed plenty of good pitchers lately, but if you look at all the matchups this season through all the months, we've faced more than enough good NL pitchers for my taste. Doesn't counter the fact the Dodger offense has often been non-existent, just that it's not quite as often as it seems.

Still, would be nice to get off the "schneid" against a team we should beat.

Well, Matt Kemp didn't last long.

1400 Calories - I wonder what an Astro Buffalo Burger is?

Wow, that stadium looks dead.

So much for patient at bats to start. This pitcher must look awfully enticing to the Dodgers hitters or something.

75 You worked at the Daily Breeze?

82 It's just resting.

83 Is he wearing a halter top or a tank top?

84 Yes sir.

Its amusing that the difference between a lineup with Kent and without Kent has Martin batting second and Ethier third, and with Kent has Martin batting sixth, and Ethier 2nd.

7 pitches. I think the Dodger strategy is there's no point in long at-bats against bad pitchers since we don't want them to leave the game early. That way, when they least expect it, we can surprise them with a.... walk.

I'd like to see Ethier bat leadoff. He doesn't have a great OBP, but he works the count usually, and if you're not scoring runs, you want to tire the starting pitcher and make him waste pitches.

87 Back in the days of the battle between Hawthorne PD and the paper?

I think it's more amusing that now Martin has been tagged with the "can't hit in front of Manny" reputation and doesn't get to hit in the 3 spot anymore. Has he had any games batting 3rd since he was removed from that spot?

70 76
Thanks.

Uh-oh Has the worm not turned yet.

Will it ever.

Nice start for Lowe!

Larry Brown: "The thing is they got guys that are willing to make a three-year commitment, which I think is tremendous," Brown said of this current Team USA. "We had guys that committed (for 2004) and then all of a sudden 9/11 happened, and then there were injuries."

http://deadspin.com/5042040/college-football-previews-3-ohio-state

We were living in Altadena. I was commuting to Hollywood and Lovely Bride was commuting to... Pasadena.

Then lovely bride got a new job and started commuting to Redondo Beach. As we were figuring out what we were going to do about her commute, I got a new job in Culver City.

We moved to Hawthorne.

25 - the old saw: in eggs and bacon, the hen is involved, the pig is committed.

97 - at one point I was investigating buying in Hawthorne. About the only part where I would really consider living is the Del Vista part (IIRC, it's been about a decade since I was seriously looking) west of the 405, the smallest part of Hawthorne. The rest was pretty much gangland.

Yay! Russell's learned to hit again.

He's not back to Golden God status but maybe at least Bronze God.

99 That's Hollyglen. That's where we live. It's a great neighborhood.

Though I currently live in DC, I've never watched a Nats broadcast; so far, I'm pleasantly surprised at the quality of the announcing team.

The Dodgers are trying to break its own record.

Sigh. And the mortal Nomar's forgotten how to hit again.

103 Only one left on base that inning though! :-/

101 Right, Hollyglen. Has a nice library.

Used to live right down Aviation from you, Humma...a block from Aviation on 96th St. It's now a dead neighborhood.

The NL LOB record in a 9 inning game is 18.

A guy in my office got a call about an hour ago that told him he got free tickets to tonight's Padres-DBacks tilt. He was all excited, until I informed him that Brandon Webb would be pitching for Arizona.

Now he looks like a man headed to witness an execution.

Takes a dedicated fan to be excited to see the Padres.

Don't do that Derek. Do what you did in the first inning.

I can't decide whether to type "Lastings Effect" or "Run of the Milledge".

The Dodgers and Nationals have two of the lowest watched telecasts in baseball.

The Nationals average a .39 average rating which is 3 times worse than team No. 29, the Angels at 1.24, the Dodgers don't fare much better than that at 1.57.

I'm not sure why the Southern California teams fare so poorly on TV.

ESPN has breaking news that Mark Kotsay was scratched from tonight's lineup.

What a huge story.

113 Going to Boston?

112
Most people have no idea who is on team, so they do not care about the players.

102 - yeah, I was surprised at how good they were, too. The White Sox probably lead the majors in the category of worst announcers, especially for a major market team.

114
They just changed story and say he could be headed to Boston.

So anything with Boston Red Sox is huge news for ESPN.

How snake bit are we?!.

But what were the Mets thinking when they gave up on Milledge?

Gee, Lowe's pitch count is nice and low, but we have to feel like we will never get another timely hit.

112 - I saw that story and wondered whether it's share of the local market or the overall market.

So, good news, I don't have a torn labrum, just a "frozen shoulder". Got some ultrasound, a little electroshock therapy, and some physical therapy exercises.

Oh man, they missed Blake making out on one pitch by trying to stretch the commercials.

115 Are you talking about the Angels or Dodgers or both.

121
All West Coast teams.

112 I may be stereotyping and may risk pissing off some people, but I think most fans in Southern California do not care how the team is doing day-to-day. It's only exciting if it's a big matchup or Manny has arrived or something like that. I have a lot of people I work with who follow the Dodgers by looking up the next morning how they did the night before. And they have no idea how close they are to 1st place or who AZ is playing tonight. And some of these guys go to the stadium 10-20 times a year.

Well, that was annoying.

I hate the dancing SouthWest commercial.

91 That must have been before my time. Though the paper had a pretty good run in with the Torrance PD when they were keeping a house full of hookers for the cops break time.

sigh.

That said, from the few times I've watched the Nats play (in their sorta ugly new stadium), I've concluded that they make a bunch of mental mistakes every game. Hopefully we'll stop hitting into DPs and actually cash in some runs before this game is over.

118 I'm in the 'we'll never get another timely hit' doldrums right now. I must let rational thinking take over and say, we're getting this out of the way right now, and we'll make a crazy run down the stretch.

123 I'm going to rephrase that part about "do not care how the team is doing day-to-day" by saying that even if they do care, they don't follow them on TV. I have so many people tell me that they love going to the stadium but can't watch baseball on TV. Also, most of these people automatically think any 1-0 or 2-1 game is boring whereas a 7-6 game is automatically great.

Help me Lord. I think it's a Dodger announcer who brought up wanting JP to steal a base in some ridiculous conversation.

I have decided that the Dodgers repeatedly not scoring inning after inning is a rule 8 violation and have instructed them to desist.

125 How could you?

131 I say ban em.

Harris looks to be safe.

Oo, that was close.

131 I believe it's also a Rule 3 violation. The Dodgers should be warned.

Jeff Kent seems like a chronic Rules 7 & 10 breaker.

125
Where they guy at the club kicks over the DJ table? That's an outstanding commercial!

He was safe.

Bill Dwyre used the blogger in his mom's basement tack today. He's making me think kindly of Plaschke.

Even the Nationals are getting clutch/RISP hits.

Oooo, the agony, aa-go-neeeee! (As Bugs Bunny would say.)

Anyone else's HD feed on this game off?

131 We should forgive them a few more, as rule 6 has broken like 5 million times, they should be given some leeway.

that ump actually looked pretty cool calling the Nats player out.

141 Sorry, hadn't seen the second run score. Ban 'em.

Nice if unnecessarily dramatic play by Loney there.

Okay, Dodgers, time to work this pitcher more, get on the board.

At the very least, this team is raising my blood pressure into the normal range. So thanks for that.

137 My hatred stems from the day FSN were constantly having broadcast problems, and then aired that ad 3 or 4 times in a row. No, I do not want to dance Southwest. Stop asking me.

137

The only part of that commercial I like is when he does that thing with his hands as if telling them move out peepz I'm gonna bust my moves!

141
rule 6 has broken like 5 million times

That made me laugh.

Its distressing that a two run lead seems insurmountable.

So, how about that upcoming college football season. Should be a good one.

122 Actually the A's and Giants do okay in terms of regional ratings.

146
They're not asking you to dance; they're asking you if you would like to "get away," preferably using them as transportation.

151
The A's, really? The team that no one goes to see and is half full of nobodies?

150 The season is over for me after the second game if SC can't get past Ohio State.

The only thing funnier than an Asian guy dancing is an Asian guy in an afro.

154
That would be the doomsday scenario.

I was just on a Southwest flight from Chicago. I had an aisle seat and it looked like the middle seat was going to remain open. I was already to lift the arm rest up and enjoy a nice flight when this 6 foot 3, 280 pound guy boards the plane. He literally took up 1/3 of my seat. It was a miserable 4 hours.

trivia answer is Minny, Oakland, and Florida, no?

152 No, but the fat guy is asking the girl to dance, and its that part that drives me into a rage every time I see that commercial. Really, there should be a couple of different ads where the guy hits somebody or something different like the DJ, somebody in the crowd, or the girl he's dancing for. But er, that's a different criticism.

153
The A's are my second favorite team, yet all my friends who follow the A's know so little about them.

154 - we would need OSU to lose twice at that point, with their talent/conf - can't happen.

I still think there would be a small chance USC could get into the title picture if they lose to Ohio State.

The SEC teams will beat up on each other. I think only one of Oklahoma or Missouri will have a chance. Basically comes down to Ohio State losing a couple games.

I hate the Big Ten.

OSU is like the Kobra Kai. The big bullies that choke in the end.

Decent AB with an anemic result.

Sigh. The Dodgers are LOB Bluth these days.

I really hated the Big Ten back in the Hayes/Shembechler days. But then again, OJ was my boyhood hero. Go figure.

Is this when I should yell fertilizer?

2008 Top gains in regional ratings

CSN Chicago Cubs 4.87 (51.2%) 169,000 (52.3%)
FSN Florida Rays 2.77 (31.3%) 49,000 (32.4%)
FSN South Braves 3.31 (23.0%) 76,000 (28.8%)
FSN Rocky Mountain Rockies 3.56 (16.0%) 53,000 (20.5%)
FSN Ohio Reds 5.78 (14.9%) 52,000 (15.6%)
CSN Chicago White Sox 1.82 (13.8%) 63,000 (14.5%)
SunSports Marlins 3.49 (11.9%) 54,000 (12.5%)
FSN Midwest Cardinals 8.04 (5.9%) 100,000 (7.5%)
CSN Bay Area A?s 2.09 (5.6%) 51,000 (8.5%)
FSN Florida Marlins 3.41 (5.2%) 52,000 (4.0%)
FSN Southwest Rangers 1.49 (4.2%) 36,000 (5.9%)
CSN Philadelphia Phillies 5.02 (3.9%) 148,000 (4.2%)
MASN/MASN2 Orioles 3.05 (1.7%) 33,000 (0.0%)
YES Yankees 4.40 (0.0%) 325,000 (0.3%)
FSN Wisconsin Brewers 6.73 (-0.9%) 60,000 (0.0%)
FSN North Twins 6.92 (-6.9%) 118,000 (-5.6%)
CSN Bay Area Giants 2.51 (-7.4%) 61,000 (-6.2%)

The Dodgers and Angels have more viewers (89,000 and 70,000, respectively) but their 1.57 and 1.29 ratings are among the lowest in baseball.

If I was a USC fan, losing to a Pac-10 team this year would be far more depressing than Ohio State.

The one thing is that the human vote counts more now then it did when FSU went over Miami, who had beaten them. So that would generally mean that such a scenario - ie - an 11-1 SC team getting in over an 11-1 OSU team that had beaten them in LA, is unlikely. However, due to the backlash against OSU, I could see a scenario where voters manipulate votes to keep them out. I think there's a sentiment that any team from the Big 11 right now needs to go undefeated to make the title game after the disaster of the last 2 seasons.

169 If you were a USC fan, you'd know how wrong that is.

171
Ohio State is at least good and you got a banged up QB. The Pac-10 is trash this year.

I think Dodger pitchers really start to press too much when the offense is slumping like it has been. A lot of pressure to be perfect when you know they're not gonna score many or any runs.

169 - for national title purposes, losing to a Pac 10 team would be better. OSU is almost guaranteed a title shot with a win since the Big 11 is so bad, so that would mean only playing for 1 spot. Conversely, if SC lost to someone else, they're guaranteed in over OSU.

Yeah, but Ohio State is just a notch below Notre Dame and UCLA on the have to beat at all costs list.

I'm extremely bummed that the Dodgers have reverted back to where they were before the Manny "Bump".
I'm trying to keep a good atitude about them, but deep down I've already come to terms that it it in fact the Dodgers, and they will find a way to blow it as they always have thoughout history.
But hey. At least were not as pathetic right now as the Cub's last century of play, or even the Giants for that matter.
So there's that.
The sad part about this is I have tickets to about 5 more games this year, and I'm not sure if I want to invest the time and money to watch these losers in person. And before I'm painted as a fairweather fan, in my defense I've never chosen not to go before in my life if I had a chance; even game 162 of last year, which was actually really fun(PeeWee went deep that day).

I think it is a good lesson that when a team reaches this point where they get so ham fisted they are tripping over each other to make outs, guys like Manny and Kent are no different from the rest.

I think it may be a sign like hitting bottom, when things are about to change.

I'm with Marty on this one. The Buckeyes transcend rationality; they must be beaten.

Casey Blake should get a night off. Who's our backup 3rd baseman not named Nomar or Martin?

Hey, whatever it takes to get Nomar on base.

179 Ozuna. Alas.

DeWitt soon, though.

I know almost nothing about football, so help me out here...

Say you've got two one-loss teams -- one lost its game early in the season and the other lost late in the season. It sometimes seem that the advantage goes to the one that lost early in the season -- i.e., the voters punished that team by pushing it down in the ranks, and then, as other teams lose, it rises back up.

If that's true -- and it really seems to be to someone who knows nothing -- why would losing in Week 2 kill the whole season (so long as OSU loses a game eventually)?

Main reason OSU should be beaten is because you want to see a relevant National Title game instead of a hilarious one.

So is Russell Mitchell definitely not a prospect at all? He hit his 16th homer for Jax today.

176 - but deep down I've already come to terms that it it in fact the Dodgers, and they will find a way to blow it as they always have thoughout history.

You must be in your 20's.

Wow, we gotta score some runs this inning.

I might smash something if we can't.

Two HBP in a row. Let's go for 3 Dodgers!

182 - b/c they would have lost to Ohio State. There have been such uproars over scenarios like this happening due to computers, that the human votes counts for more, and the voters would almost certainly not allow the team who lost (especially at home) to the other team to go ahead of them.

Nomar wants to cheat a little there, man, that was close.

That would have been funny.

Oh and look at that; maybe he really was out

Please don't sacrafice--who is going to drive them in right now. Stick out your hip.

185 Heh, I was just gonna say that, too.

OH no!

182 USC could lose a game in the Pac-10 (they have lost 2 in each of the last 2 years), so a loss against Ohio State plus another loss would take them out of the title game.

Actually, I think there is a pretty good chance that USC will lose at least once in the Pac-10 this year.

Nomar looks like he's hurt now. And the ball hit him, he should get another base on that play.

The umpire got the call right. The tag arrived ahead of Nomar to the base, but the glove didn't hit him until after his hand was on the base.

Uh oh, Nomar's gonna hurt himself diving back to the bag.

191 I'd rather have 2nd and 3rd with one out and Kemp up than risk a DP with Lowe hitting.

Oh, great Nomar's doing everything possible to get injured---but you know what---I don't care for him anyway.

197 - Nomar gets hurt on impacting oxygen molecules.

leave it to the Nats. I love it.

Ball 4 to Lowe. Unbelievable.

Or I'll take a walk of the pitcher over a sac.

182
In general, losing early is better. But losing to OSU in particular essentially fast-tracks OSU into the title game. USC could conceivably win out, but would probably need every SEC team to lose twice to creep into the title game. That's just not a likely scenario for them.

I don't know if it's realistic/healthy to expect a title nearly every year. I always convince myself winning the Pac-10 would be a fine season, capped with a Rose Bowl win. But I'd be lying if I wasn't disappointed that losses to UCLA and Stanford cost USC a legitimate shot at two title game appearances.

Balester is not a closer.

184 Would you take a corner infielder who hit .266/.320/.430 in the bigs?

He might have a September callup in his future, but I can't see much else.

Kemp will hit into a triple play.

Bases loaded again.

Bison: for the love of all things holy, get a hit here.

Ah, former Dirtbag Marco Estrada warms up in the bullpen.

199 His molecules are made of glass, too, I believe.

When it even looks like the Umps are trying to give a mercy win to the Dodgers you know times are bad.

They walked Lowe! They Walked Lowe!

And if Nomar is hurt again, then it opens up a space for Wade, and Torre doesn't have to DFA Berroa, Ozuna, or Schutze. (He should, but now he doesn't have to make a decision.) Well, he could also pick TronTron but that seems to punishing a guy for doing his job decently.

194 - I honestly see us losing either zero game s or 1 to say OSU, or 3. The young but talented O line is either going to perform and gel, or they won't. If they do, the team will be dominant, if not they'll struggle and will win games by 10-14 points based strictly on a great defense.

If we don't score here....

206 Hah hah. That would almost be perfect and awesome, in a nightmare, wrist-cutting kind of way.

Balester looks pretty baleful.

210

that was a really good one.

at least hit a fly ball Bison. darn it!

we'll take it. heads up play by Nomar I still don't know what's going on.

I don't have sound working. Could someone explain what just happened??

Ah, and that's mental error number two for the Nats. Two or three more to go.

Kemp has JP-inits. Kemp!

And Nomar isn't a heady vet. Knock the Nats catcher on his ass!

Wow, when I heard "grounder to 3B" I assumed BH was correct.

Woo hoo, a run!

That almost COULD HAVE been a triple play. Sheesh.

Hi-larious. They could have had a triple play but elected to send it home.

After Zimmerman got the out at third, there was no more force play at home, so the catcher had to tag Nomar to get the out.

Wow, that was l-u-c-k-y.

220 - his body would shatter into sand.

Flores is also not a closer.

Gotta love the dodgers, we score a run without getting a hit this inning!

Sheesh. Ethier! Stop writing your next food column in your head and drive in runs!

you know what I gotta hand it to Nomar... what happened?

Wow--who said it. Kemp tried to hit into a triple play but they messed it up. I hope the tide is turning!

It only seems like a 17-game scoreless streak, Charlie.

229
The Dodger offense is a dish most often served cold.

That was almost a third HBP. What's the record for an inning? Probably a lot more than 3.

Captain sissypants refuses to take one off the helmet for the good of the team.

Stop hitting it to Zimmerman!

Sigh. That could've been better.

Could've been worse, too.

230 - Bags loaded, Nomar at third, Kemp hits the ball hard to third. Third baseman steps on the bag, throws home. Nomar is chugging down the line, the catcher bobbles it, recovers with his back to third base. As he recovers he steps on the bag, then Nomar steps on the bag. He's initially declared out, but there's no force, and on appeal, the Dodgers score, one out.

The Kemp ball really, really coulda been a triple play. In which case I woulda started wondering which god or gods the Dodgers had offended.

234

If we're counting me getting bored in MLB2K7, it's somewhere around 24.

Wow, the thing that is really scary is that Kent and Manny are so useless under pressure. And I don't care about small samples, that's where something special might emerge.

I admit, I was a lot better with baseball rules when I was in my very young teens.

233 now that was witty

Wow, the thing that is really scary is that Kent and Manny are so useless under pressure. And I don't care about small samples, that's where something special might emerge.

Brain Fuentes is placed on waivers. Who would you give up for him? My best bet is that Dodgers offer either TronTron, or a combination of Onderduff, Xavier Paul, and Greg Miller.

Balestar's at 75 pitches, for whatever that's worth.

So after being shut out in a 13 hit game, we finally score without one? Makes perfect sense.

BTW, can anyone remember a player Kemp-like wheels being the last out on a ground ball triple-play?

239 - does it come with can-can music? Because you have to have the Bugs Bunny can-can music to make it really fun.

I can say that again.

I know my browser has been sticky lately but it seems worse with the Toaster. Anyone else?

240 Almost everyone's been useless under pressure for past week or two. I wouldn't say those guys are that way in their careers, though. Both have been amazingly clutch for a long time.

243 Didn't Manny have a bunch of big hits back when he was hot? Let's not make absolutes based on this dismal stretch we've been having.

When are we going to find out what we gave up for Maddux?

244 I would say they don't claim him at all.

251 Padres said they will announce it by 10/15.

247 I was thinking more along the lines of the Benny Hill theme song.

Nicely done, Lowe!

Now let's give him some support. You know, a run or something.

240 You mean the guy who was 8 for his first 11 at bats with RISP for the Dodgers.

Why would we not claim Fuentes?

253
Thanks, dang that is a long time to find out.

254 Hah hah.

OMG! An extra base hit!

{faint}

Well, Manny's power is returning. Now if Kent only got hit in the head, Manny's double would have cleared the bases.

Manny's double is his first extra base hit since his Aug. 17 homer.

Oh man! A hit with a RISP! And we still don't score.

Pierre should be Manny's designated runner.

They have been awake at the plate all week.
That hasn't helped.

Balestar Galactica is now done for the evening.

Well, part of me wants to ask why we're struggling here against the Nats in a 2-1 affair... and the other part of me just wants to cry.

185, and 192

Yes I'm only 27, but still. I hold this team to much higher standards. We're the Dodgers, dag nabit! And our payroll is gigantic. Flipping Gimongous!

I know they still have to play the game, but gees. When you are part of the elite, falling off a cliff is not excusable as many times as the Dodgers have done it.

I have far more respect for the man that earns his wealth, then the man who just used old money to suceed. They should be held to a higher standard. We are a rich team, to not suceed is just a sad waste of money that could go to far more useful causes.

263 And who on the Dodgers have? You're going to write them off b/c they're capable of having a bad week?

Ok. Can we score with a hit? I'm getting really excited.

A CHips guy is now pitching for Nats.

Now what? The Nats may be as cursed as the Dodgers, it seems.

Come to think of it, I think this whole thing started with everybody stopping at third. To conservative?

Manny didn't score on that?!!!! What the.

266 Success is success. There are no caveats from me.

Yet another mistake by the Nats. They sure haven't been stingy with their screw ups.

Please score.

253 Dodgers will claim Fuentes, its a different situation than the Adam Dunn situation. First off Fuentes is a reliever, which everyone who's in contention is looking for, including the Dodgers and D'Backs. Fuentes isn't getting paid a ton this year, and the Dodgers can figure out a place to put him on the 25 man and the bullpen unlike the current logjam the Dodgers have in the outfield. Also, it doesn't have to be a serious offer, we may piss off the Rockies but our main objective is to keep Fuentes away from the D'Backs.

Oh man, he totally was safe, that was a good call and a bad play by Bonifacio.

Er, I guess the throw could've been better, too.

Time for that triple play! C'mon Dodgers!

This is absolutely unbelieveable.

Now THAT, dear darlings, is bad luck.

Ryan Zimmermann goes down as God Emperor of fielding third basemen.

Fertilizer.

SIGH. Now it's our turn to have bad luck again. SHEESH.

I'm gonna cry.

Heavens to Murgatroid.

Ugly. What is with this ultra aggressive first pitch nonsense?

this is just insane man.

...please score...

I'm about to break every single rule.

276 - I thought Loney got tagged up top after he overslid the bag.

I think Garciaparra's line-drive double play officially moved this from the depressing to the fascinating for me.

This is patently ridiculous.

It almost reaches a certain point of absurdity where it just becomes funny.

Now the Dodgers are doomed this inning.

283 It only bothers me when good contact isn't made. Nomar hit that on the screws, but right at Zimmermann. Bad luck.

Keep hitting it to third.

They want to get rid of Lowe. oh well.

This is not a good percentage play. Blake has been ice cold lately. You're putting the tying run 90 feet away. Estrada has four innings of ML experience.

I guess the one advantage to being the worse team in the playoff hunt is that we can claim people before anyone else.
This team could really use Fuentes but as Scareduck says, why bother?

Ugly. What is with this ultra aggressive first pitch nonsense?
I wouldn't criticize Nomar for that. He's always been a guy who has had success putting the first pitch in play. Nomar has never been the type of hitter who works the count.

Incredibly bad luck...

Lowe's only thrown 68 pitches and our bullpen is burnt toast, not much choice here, imho. Not like our bench is that useful anyway.

Come on--can't you get hit, Lowe

8 LOB!

287 Is that a step in Michael Scott's 5 steps of dealing with tragedy? Will you feel like you've done your job if you can just get these fine people to fascination?

295 - Yah, and he crushed that liner, too, just right at someone. The story of the Phills series, too.

287 - it moved from the pathetic to the ridiculous for me.

And ex-Dirtbag Estrada hangs the Dodgers out to dry with the bases juiced. High comedy!

I'm glad I didn't go to this game. Having a mental breakdown in the stand would have been very embarrassing.

like somebody else said, things can't get any worse, good times to fallow.

Wow. This is just... Wow.

289.
I've been laughing for the past week. It's better than being mad or angry, I mean really..this is truly absurd.

297 Really. Did someone put a horcrux on this team? Too bad there are no wizards on the Dodgers to fight back!

8 LOBs now.

the Dodgers offense is definitely fallow.

308 It's in the Mark Sweeney nadir.

When's Furcal back again?

This is a recording. This message will repeat and then self-destruct in 30 days. Beep!

Time for Jon to issue a 2nd warning to the Dodgers.

If we are filming Gilligan's Island, which episode is this?

I am kind of sad to watch the last two episodes of Freaks and Geeks, because then I won't have anymore Freaks and Geeks to watch.

I mean you can't even really get mad anymore. I've become numb to it. You just expect no matter what we will fail to score. Bases loaded and nobody out. We will find a way not to score. And more than once this game. It's absolutely insane and it has to balance out.

295 - Short at bats are actually more productive than long ones, counterintuitively:

http://actasports.com/sow.php?id=180

312 - Either "Wrongway Feldman" or the one where they discover the cursed Tiki statue.

310 - Where's Furcal's back, again?

Fixed.

"With all the runners on base you'd think they'd score one by accident" Charlie Steiner.

he pulls rabbits out of his hat some times...

313 Then you can rewatch them with all the cool commentary tracks!

And then rewatch them again, as I did recently.

312 - the one where Mary Ann and Ginger kill Gilligan and serve him up to the Howells with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

315 Bill James had that same stat on his site.

It makes some sense but it is counter to what is being preached.

Speaking of which, whatever happened to that gnome?? They need some kind of superstitious ritual, whatever it takes.

294 - I did?

Please shave, Ronnie.

I thought the Dodgers had bad luck last weekend when Geoff Jenkins got hurt and Werth when into play for him and was able to make some plays that I don't think Jenkins makes.

Slump busters all around!

318 But the Dodgers already scored an accidental run tonight.

318 - they did, in the fifth.

Lowe's really pitched a great game. One or two mistakes and that's all it's taken to be losing this one.

And the Mets have scored more runs tonight in 2+ innings than the Dodgers scored all weekend + 1.

Last night, amidst all those hits, Manny drew a collar. Tonight he's 2-3, but Kemp and Ethier are combined 0-6. As someone said yesterday, out of sync.

The Nats seem to have a few decent pitchers in their bullpen whom I'd never heard of.

It's still entirely possible that we can score a run against the Nationals bullpen.

330 - the season rule is that no more then three Dodgers are allowed to have hits in one game.

Feels odd the Dodgers are promoting playoff tickets during the middle of a losing streak.

Now the former Angel prospect Steven Shell.

And dayam, he's been pretty good. 2.26 ERA going into this game.

337 The Angels have a few former pitching prospects pitching well for other teams.

Did anyone notice that the second pitch of Blake's intentional walk was right over the plate at 69 MPH? It took the ump by surprise so much that he didn't call it a strike, and it took Blake by surprise so much that he didn't swing.

Why is this road trip starting to feel like the Bataan Death March?

And again the top of the lineup goes zero for eight.

Lastings Milledge is a pretty good player.

340 Except our captors are teasing us with diving catches while we slowly march to our doom.

Hmmm . . bedtime is keeping me from watching but I from a skim it seems like this game has been undull.

In other news, I worked at the Marina Del Rey Islands for a few years in high school/college summer.

Fine Burgers and Drinks.

timed play by Lastings Milledge but still & athletic play non-the-less.

One thing for sure that has happened during this cold streak, the opposing team's bullpen has shut down the Dodgers, I would guess that since last Tuesday, opposing pens have an ERA less than .5 while averaging probably 3 innings a game.

it's gonna be embarrassing if the Nats beat us.

I may have to renew my threat to head back to the mountains if this continues. I'll do whatever it takes.

340 - see 320 . Same motif, only funnier.

Just got off a phone interview for a History of the Simpsons book, and it was extremely hard keeping my thoughts on the yellow folk when friends kept IMing me with ARE YOU WATCHING THIS? messages.

I support this team thick and thin, but these are games that almost make me glad I can't find my remote for a TV that has no manual control.

338 - it pleased me to note that Bobby Jenks' K/9 rate is down. After he publicly told off the Angels organization (which had been more than patient with is childish antics), I held him in nothing but contempt.

What's going on? Gameday froze on Flores's flyout.

351
Are you the interviewer or the interviewee?

354 ee

353 - 1-2-3 inning for Lowe. Now top of the 8th, with Manny up.

Hiro stopped time to end our collective misery.

Manny's been hot tonight. Hopefully this time, we'll be able to do something with him on base.

Great, leadoff hitter on!

Whoop-de-doo.

{twirl fingers facetiously}

Post writer asked around the park re folks' view on instant replay tonight. Here's JT:

Like it?
"You want to get it right and I think all the umpires, I think maybe a number of years ago umpires were a little stubborn about asking for help but I think you've seen more over the last 15 years more guys getting together talking about things. . . . Just the fact they're trying to get it right, when it's something like a home run or fair-foul call . . . I think it makes sense."

Worry about slippery slope?
"It's tough to overturn safe and out then you'll get in to ball and strike and then all of the sudden people have to pack more than a lunch to get here to the ballpark."

http://tinyurl.com/3dj3u2

That must be one hell of a pop up for Flores....

The FBI is investigating whether Pistons guard Lindsey Hunter and business associates duped a man into buying a $1.25 million house he could not afford. -via roto

Oh, that silly Lindsey Hunter.

The lil' mouse that runs GameDay must have taken a break!

This is beyond infuriating.

The FBI is investigating whether Pistons guard Lindsey Hunter and business associates duped a man into buying a $1.25 million house he could not afford

I'm guessing gloss was involved.

This has definitely moved past depressing, through ridiculous, and has become sublime.

You, 2008 Dodgers -- you are the Mozarts of LOBs.

363 Maybe that's the one I just saw running around my kitchen.

Okay, I'm off to pack my backpack and sleeping bag, anyone want to give me a ride back to the middle of nowhere in the Sierras?

Well, unless there's been a DL trip I don't know about (highly possible with the Nationals, they sneak up all the time), should be a Joel Hanrahan sighting on the way.

Well, I went downstairs for dinner, came back up, and nothing's changed.

I feel all hurty and confused, mommy. When will the bad feelings stop?

Oh please tell us how it happened! I want every hysterical detail!

24 straight AB's with RISP without a run producing hit. Is that even possible?

nm, gd is back

Martin hit into a DP, ball hit to, yep, third base, to end the inning. Of course.

368

Yes, and I'm bringing a sack for you to put over your head to add excitement.

Aaron Boone...? Sheesh, MLB: contract already.

Didn't Lowe have a CG loss last year?

it's only been about a week, I still have hope. things can't POSSIBLY get in worse.

This is almost going perfectly with my "down in flames" edict. If we can continue losing in this pathetic "LA Clippers of baseball" fashion - maybe swept by the Nats, score one run against Pit all series, and then maybe get rolled by the Padres, I think Ned could get run within a week of the season ending.

Is Rule 1 really that hard for everyone to heed?

376 I think there's already a TV show like that, and that guy at least knows what he's doing.

Give me a GPS at least.

But no transistor radio - I don't want to be tempted to listen to the Dodgers.

CG loss for Lowe?

After last night's game my wife observed that the Dodgers have lost all four games she has attended. I thought they won one of them...what's the best way to go back and check scores for games that happened a couple years ago? The game I think we won was Broxton (and I think Dioner Navarro)'s ML debut. It was against the Cardinals.

368
Remember to bring a book that tells you which mushrooms are fun to eat and which are not.

Gameday unfroze from Flores long enough to freeze on Martin.

The All-Star with a 3-hit outing.

Man vs. wild.

382

No, you misunderstand. The sack isn't coming off. Neither is the rope tying your hands behind your back. Have fun!

man. that park in HUGE.

386.
Man on 1st, one out, russ ab, I wonder if we score this inning?...

385 Hah hah. I wish I'd had that at Burning Man.

Uh oh, Lowe might not make it for a CG loss after all.

Oh, Broxton shouldn't be tossing. This clearly calls for Loney making a relief effort.

389 No biggie. That's actually how I watch the Dodgers now so I'm ready.

366 - I don't practice Santeria.

389 - but can he squeal like a pig?

At least we're not resigning Nomar ever again in the off season. Never again.

393 - now that -- THAT -- made me laugh.

We have a Joel Hanrahan sighting.

397 - Little do you know. Muwahaha.

If my Dodgers lose it's a complete team loss. I mean, we had so many chances.

I have to give Joe Torre some credit. I expected him to bring in Broxton. Despite the fact that Lowe didn't have a lot left in the tank, I would have kept him because of the way that Broxton has been pitching lately.

Yep, agreed. And hats off to Lowe for pitching a whale of a game, a gritty effort, threw a ton of strikes.

384- The Dodgers did win that game.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2005/B07290LAN2005.htm

from what I understand (last I checked the #'s) Hanrahan is a wild pitcher.

378 - Lowe had three CG losses last year, in fact:

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/uuKy

404- Broxton was un-closery back then, too. But Ghame Over was nails.

97 MPH? What the heck!?!

And Nomar hits it to 3rd. Its as if they're trying to force Zimmerman to make an error.

384
It is my experience that wife's do not appreciate husbands going out of their way to prove their memories incorrect.

Nomar now OPSing .696

The guy is streaky.

405 Averages a walk every other inning.

Since when did Hanrahan start throwing in the upper 90's?

The Nats middle infielders should go home. Zimmerman's the only one who matters.

405 - 36/80 BB/K ratio, 6 WP this year.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hanrajo01.shtml

A little wild but not too bad.

If Ryan Zimmerman had Jeff Kent's range how many runs would the Dodgers have tonight?

404 I lucked into Dugout Club seats that game. One of the best I've ever been to.

Got to see both Eckstein (Hey! I'm bigger than that guy!) and Pujols (That guy could kill me with his pinky!) up close. Was surreal.

Look, it's Mark Sweeney, coming to save the day....
...
...

Joel had turned around his minor league career when we decided to part ways. Ned isn't good at this timing thing.

Here comes Sweeney!!!!

Here we go, Sweeney DP to end it.

I'm packing up my stuff as we speak.

This can't happen as Lowe pitches a "complete" game. Whatever we did to the gods it probably can. And with our own prospect.

No way that ball would land fair. Not this week.

418 - and people wonder why I was way, way, WAY down on the trades for Manny and Blake. If there's one thing that the Nedster has shown, he does not properly value prospects.

412
When he was one our top pitching prospects. Must be a cool thing to throw hard, lose it, lose command, recover the fast ball, semi recover the command, beat the team who lost faith in you.

you better take the walk Sweeney!!

404
Thanks.

Why bother replacing Lowe (.151 BA) with Sweeney (.143)?

It's Bison Time.

Huh. Hanrahan walks the tying run into scoring position. There go those walks.

Wonder if the D'Back inquired about Hanrahan over Jon Rauch.

Also, Sweeney is bald.

Excellent at bat by Sweeney.

Sweeney has looked a lot better at the plate this month

I don't care if I'm wrong, if I were the manager I'd make Ozuna steal 3rd

413 - somebody has to be at the 3 end of the 5-4-3 triple play.

Hasn't Sweeney been a walk machine lately?

"This guy scares me."
- The Nats' announcer on Matt Kemp. I like this announcing team.

Man, Hanrahan has lost the plate. And against Sweeney, too!

http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/

Torre responds to Hershiser

imagine if Kemp hits in a dp.

435 - My aunt Maude would scare them if she had a bat in her hands. And if I had an aunt Maude.

Juan Pierre--pinch runner.

This reminds me of Broxton a few nights ago...

Dont Swing!

Nat's announcer:

"Matt Kemp scares me because he's big and strong"

Kemp what are you doing that was ball for man! ah!!

Kemp swings at ball 5.

All of the headlines streaming on the MLB.com media player are about various people and teams and their opinions yay or nay about instant replay. How exciting!

Hanrahan has the Broxton problem.

And come on Kemp, that was an easy walk.

Nats trying to load the bases. Everyone knows we can't score when the bases are juiced.

That was pathetic. 2-0 and 3-1, you look for spots. Not that.

Sweeney never quit walking. He just couldn't hit. Or catch, or run.

LOL at the Dusty quote from Monday on the radio: "You might be fast but you won't last." He sure has done his best to give truth to that quote as a manager.

Atrocious at bat by Kemp...

Nomar and Blake got destroyed here for poor ab's on Sunday, Kemp deserves as much if not more heat for that ab.

Hi all. I just logged in to see if Gameday is broken for anyone else. When I go there it says that it's the 9th inning and the Dodgers have only scored 1 run against the NATIONALS. Can anyone help me out? Thanks.

C'mon Ethier, this is your time to shine.

That looked like a hittable pitch to Kemp.

you live you learn... stick that in the WHAT NOT TO DO side of your brain Kemp.

Ozuna couldn't have tagged to reach 3rd?

453 Looks like that's happened.

Torre and crew better chew into Matt for that AB. Guy cant throw a strike, is throwing all fastballs, but you swing at 2 balls that had no chance to be strikes? Thats awful and cost the team a great scoring chance. Pathetic. This team doesnt deserve anything with at bats like that.

Hanrahan yearns to load the bases.

I expect to see Pierre's in the game tomorrow.

LOBsters, LOBsters, LOBsters. Time for a surf-n-turf dinner.

And Lowe gets his fourth CG loss as a Dodger.

Fail. Fail. Fail.

This is getting embarrassing.

Well that just happened.

Deposits on playoff tickets are due by Sept. 5th. I'm not exactly reaching for my wallet.

I hate to rag on Kemp cuz he's one of my favorite players on the team, but that was just a terrible ab, and sort of sums up what's been going on.

{{Cry}}

Ah well.

As far as I can tell the biggest thing Kemp did wrong was not crush that 3-2 pitch.

I am guessing the game is over?

Is it too late to ask for the prospects back?

Adding Blake did not make the team better.
Adding Manny made a mediocore team slightly less mediocre.

Maybe the MLBs worst 2 teams here.

I'm gonna go walk home from work now, so by the time I get there I won't feel like kicking my cats.

How many left on base in this one?

466 - if it works anything like the way the Angels do, assuming the Dodgers don't make the playoffs, you can apply the money toward season tickets next year.

I can tell you're excited.

At least Hanrahan is on my fantasy team. I can turn full attention to that instead of the "real" team now, right?

I just watched the most recent episode of Mad Men. This is how I feel about the last five days:

"This never happened. It will shock you how much it never happened."

Slumps are slumps but this is ridiculous against lousy pitching.
McCourt is watching that big deposit for post season tickets shriveling up in front of his very eyes.

471 Whoa, don't go to easy on the Dodgers.

471 Congrats on a huge Rule 6 violation.

the Dodgers offense has been awful the past 7 days, but if we're talking overall, then that's a patently ridiculous thing to say. But I understand we're all venting our frustrations here.

I'm walkin', yes indeed. Hasta manana. If I'm not in the mountains.

As a Dodgers fan since 1955, I am at a loss for words...

472 - no. The Dodgers are a .500 team. That does not make them a bad team, just not a very good one.

If they lose the next two, that would be really embarrassing.

At least we have the Dodger Rays to cheer on.

Disgusting. Losing to a .330 team with almost 1/3 of the Dodgers payroll in a pennant race.
The Nationals are how many games out of the race? And they play with far more emotion and fire then any of the Dodgers. Where the heck is the side of Jeff Kent we all know and dislike when we need him?
What a lost group of players.

469 Ethier grounded to first on a 3-1 pitch.

How many Dodgers have been bad for even the last three days?

0 Obviously, they can't.

I admit it. I dreamed of LA getting stirred up over a playoff run with Manny on board. A run that would help LA get more excited about Chad, Matt, James, Andre and the Golden God.

Now, we're not even spoilers. The only good team we play will be Arizona, and at this point, it doesn't seem like those games will matter.

Wait'll next year!

What a difference a week makes. If anyone wants to be cheered up, skip backwards to Dodger Thoughts from the last home stand vs Phils and Brewers.

And the Nationals will probably win just enough games so that San Diego can draft Strasberg, ensuring that all my rooting interests achieve maximum suffering and that LAT's buddy won't have to write that big check.

On the bright side, this will likely be Ned's final season as the Dodgers GM.

Anyone have the LOB count? On top of what? 5 double plays? Just curious if we set a new record

This is the exact same team a big percentage of people liked a week ago.

473 TEN. 7 H, 3 BB, 2 HBP, and 1 reach on error = 1 run.

I guess that's an improvement from yesterday.

488 - exactly. The more frequent and painful the losses are, the better chance Ned is doing PR for the Giants next year.

490 Yah that was basically my point in 486 .

I understand the angry and frustrated feelings, I feel them too, but this is the way the Dodgers have been all season which also means they should also snap out of it. Hard to keep the faith about this season but perspective checks are sometimes in order.

We need some wizard spells.

Maybe the Dodgers need some sort of Viagra for batting...

This team needs a shakeup. Time for another phantom DL for Nomar.

Oh, and in better, cheerier news, congrats are in order for one Andrew Lambo, for hitting his first HR in AA for Jax today.

Lambo (1, 8th inning off Omogrosso, 2 on, 2 out).

Fun fact: Cody Ross, who we just threw out with the garbage, has 19 home runs this season, which would of course lead the Dodgers by a lot.

Was it mentioned here that the California League awards were announced? MVP: Carlos Santana.

4 days till SC football, 4 days till SC football.......

493 It is one thing to endure a tough streak earlier in the season, but with about five weeks to play and behind the division leader to begin with, it's much harder.

Lambo is a guy worth getting excited about.

77 days until Bruin basketball... 77 days until Bruin basketball.

503 - LOL. Maybe we can get Stepheson eligible this year and make things interesting in the Pac 10.

499 At least LaRoche is having a horrible year. I need some schadenfreude.

504
Make things interesting for second place : P

Demar Derozan is no OJ Mayo.

503
4 days till Trojan football

489
I believe the GIDP record is 7 but I'm not at liberty to verify.

Incidentally the iPhone and Toaster seem to be metal enemies.

506

Can't wait to see Demar get destroyed by Jrue at Pauley. And I want to see Romeo play...boy, what i would pay to see Romeo play against Darren.

As for Stepheson, it was nice that angelo johnson's scholie opened up right before he committed. Floyd is so dirty, but i guess that means he fits right in with the rest of the SC sports programs.

metal = mortal

If Romeo plays a meaningful minute this year, USC is in trouble.

That guy has no business being on a basketball scholarship at a D1 school.

508
I have no idea how USC opponents are going to resist yelling, "Uhhhhh" or "Hoody Hoo" every time they score.

Romero has no business being a ball boy at a D3 school. Floyd really shouldn't be the USC coach, but the basketball problem is Mike Garrent's White Elephant, and whatever he does, he just can't fix it.

7 GIDP in one game is the team record.

The Giants did it against Houston on May 4, 1969.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1969/B05040HOU1969.htm

The Giants lost the game 3-1. The Giants did not GIDP in the 2nd and 6th innings.

507 I don't have an iPhone so I don't know, but...are you supposed to put it in the toaster?

512
Well the program is a lot more nationally known even if they haven't had the success they have had in the past.

More national recruits have USC on their list than UCLA.

Tim Floyd is an improvement over Henry Bibby, but thats not saying much.

I wish Majerus didn't resign. I don't care if he had to coach with a respirator, and a bad heart. He'd still out coach Tim Floyd.

Five Guys is flipping awesome. I was on temporary work assigment in DC for 3 months, and I went to Five Guys for lunch 4-5 times a week.

Try their dogs; they're good, too.

In my own words: rick neuheisel is on right now and I'm getting fired up. Nothing would be better than USC / UCLA being 1-2.

517
I don't think his attitude or his ummm weird ways would fly with recruits from the inner cities. Frankly, I am surprised they work anywhere and that is even allowed to coach.

517
Majerus didn't resign over his health. He's in the same shape as he ever was and coaching in St. Louis. He just didn't want to be so far away from his mother.

*he is even allowed to coach.

Brian Giles is rooting for LA... 3-0 pads

Majerus would have never led the team to the success we've had under Floyd. Floyd is ramping up the program recruiting wise - do I think he's doing shady things with package deals, sending Angelo Johnson to his buddy Larry Eustachy? Yes. But I'm glad we're winning.

I can't believe ucla football ran that ad in the Times. I say bravo for not backing down, but almost calling out Carroll is not wise.

Fun fact: Before I met him in person, I used to picture Rick Majerus when reading the comments of Bob Timmermann.

If Majerus were coaching USC, every USC-UCLA basketball game would end in a 10-8 score.

524
I think it was quite silly since we are looking at a losing season. Let's wait to get the ball rolling a bit, before you start talking smack.

Ben Howland would never do anything like that in a million years.

Ben Howland doesn't have to do that ad. He's always the top dog in L.A. even if he does have an average year.

jim harbaugh called out SC before last season and that "motivation" led USC to an embarassing loss. Maybe Neuheisel knows what he's doing.

He would not do it even if he wasn't. It's especially silly since it apparently came from the athletic department, the same department that won't do the necessary things to make UCLA good at football.

529
Apparently, he did not know about it and it came from athletic department.

Plus, I can't imagine another John David Booty game happening.

It seems for Howland, average means Final Four.

You guys are acting like anyone reads the Times (print version) any more.

531
I feel bad for Booty. 2 Rose Bowl and a 22-4 record and he's not held in high esteem.

534 That's because he didn't go deep, or had a Running back that consistently broke ankles.

Really, I miss Carson Palmer. Although the whole Lineart thing in Ariz amuses me to no end. Really don't care for Lineart.

Well Sanchez will be good and then Matt Barkley should really get every SC fan excited.

Brehaut vs Barkley!!

The Mashin' Macedonian with a two-out, two-run double capped the five-run inning against Webb. 5-0 Padres, .... er, oops, now with two outs in the top of the fourth, Dunn singles and Reynolds homers, 5-2 Padres.

Why do tambourine players think it's okay to shake the things instead of clapping, when everybody else is clapping? Leaving aside how rarely tambourines actually add to anything, they are deeply irritating out of context.

I miss Todd Marinovich.

538
I love that song "Mr. Clap Man"

527, 529 - The Harbaugh thing was an anomaly, and it was one game. Mike Garrett was smart in how he handled the Carroll thing in 2001 - promoted the hiring but not in an obnoxious way, didn't whine about the stupid Oregon billboard, and then when we had the success he knew would come - then the billboards sprang up, etc. I just don't think it's wise to display that kind of bravado when your program is down - printing ads like that and making bold recruiting statements. I wouldn't have been pleased if Floyd or any other SC hoops coach tried to throw down the gauntlet on ucla.

541
I agree with that. Floyd is too busy recruiting 4th graders to concern himself with such ads.

541 Wasn't Carroll something like Garrett's third choice?

Padres are toying with the dodgers...6-2 against Webb bottom 5

543 I know Mike Reilly(current OSU football coach) was Garrent's first choice.

543 - not even that high.

How can the Padres score 6 runs against the Cy Young Award winner, but we cant score 3 runs in a full game against scrubs?

543
Crazy El Lay Dave, bringing facts and logic to the discussion. Shame on you :)

The two events described in 547 happened independently of each other.

547 But Nomar is in his scrub stage. And Torre second guessed himself, the lineup that he posted without Kent and Martin in the 2nd hole was a stronger lineup than with Kent and Martin in the 6th hole. Kent needs to fall down the lineup again, like 7th because its clear that Torre can juggle people in and out spots as needed.

543
Hopefully that is a good sign for Rick Neuheisel since there were a few guys ahead of him.

547 What Bob said. And also because baseball is a funny game. And not in the "ha ha" sense, though sometimes it is that, at least in the Nelson Muntz way.

Maybe there will be a late arriving decree that will make it illegal for any team from the NL West to make the playoffs this season. If the Dodgers don't make it I want Arizona going down with our pathetic, sinking ship.

okay, I'm going to watch "Honeydripper" (or at least listen to it and semi-watch it) while doing some writing, purring cat in my lap, all that will take me miles away from the Dodgers.

In 4 days, I'll be in Eugene Oregon watching the Ducks dismantle the Huskies at Autzen Stadium.

551 - I'm not sure I ever bought the Belotti stuff though. He was never going to leave Oregon, if he wasn't willing to come rebuild SC he wouldn't rebuild ucla for less $.

I think RN was about as good as Ucla could do at this point. Fair or not (alot of this is based on timing), there's the perception right now that it's hard to win with Carroll in town, the facilities aren't good, the $ for assistants is too low based on the cost of living, and that admission standards are too high. I think Neuheisel eventually turns them around, although it will take a little while, and the recruiting hit he'll take with D. Walker leaving will hurt. I know it's a reach, but since they are rebuilding anyway - I'd hire Norton as DC next year. I don't want to lose Norton, but it'd be the right move for ucla - he could grow into the role, he'd certainly stay there at his alma mater (the bitterness of getting denied by dorrell is likely gone), and he's an insane, insane recruiter.

543
More like Garrett's third choice - three times removed.
He was in love with the coach from Oregon.

552 Hey we get to keep our first rounder now!

554
I had a discussion with people on another board about this, but Carroll and Norton are hype coaches that get their players pumped, but are not the greatest at teaching technique and getting them to improve. It really does not matter, because they are the best recruiters around and the players are all ridiculously talented.

If Norton came to UCLA, he would have to hope to recruit like crazy, because he is not exactly coaching the players up.

Quick question.

Does Lowe get credited for a complete game for tonight even though he only pitched 8 innings?

557
I went to thte USC practice for the first time in my life and the most resonating feature from the entire ordeal was that Norton was the loudest MF on the field. He was constantly screaming at his players, even on seemingly innocuous drills.

Norton was easily the most vocal figure on the field last Saturday.

558
Yes. Which throws the no-hitter arguments into a tizzy.

Rockies have a chance to get back in the NL West race with Az/LA beating up on each other over the next week.

They'll likely be 6 games back after the end of tonight.

Thank You Eric

Mets, who led Philly 7-0 after four innings, now are 7-7 in the 13th, and Phillies have bases loaded with none out.

Brett Myers is pinch-hitting for Rudy Seanez.

Victorino had tripled, and then the next two hitters were intentionally walked.

3-2 count to Myers.

Called strike three.

Shane Victorino, member of Bob's fantasy team!

Sadly, that makes little difference for me as my "ace" reliever gave up four runs in the ninth for the Marlins.

Any day now, I'm expecting Manny Ramirez to admit that the Dodgers are contagiously sub-mediocre and actually make him depressed and play worse. It is evident that there is a MAJOR intrinsic chemistry problem with the nucleus of this team.

It pisses me off to say it, but I no longer feel that Ethier, Loney, or Martin are totally "untouchable." There is a characteristic, defeatist mentality that seems more real and tangible to them than the maturity of finding a way to pull through it. They've apparently succumbed to this self-destructive prophecy for two years running, at a critical point in the regular season where psychological vulnerability is simply unacceptable.

I desperately want to be proven wrong.

Ballgame. New York suffers a defeat that shows that it can happen to anyone.

569 = If you desperately want to be proven wrong, you might start by offering some proof that you're right. Show us how the "defeatist mentality" is responsible for the Dodgers losing.
I mean, this is nothing personal, but you're freakin' out :) They've had one very bad week. Trade them if you want, but you've gone haywire on the psychoanalysis.

Matt Kemp may have some rough patches, but he's a million times better than Chris Young.

CY's a guy that hasnt improved at all in the majors.

I desperately want to be proven wrong.

I'd like to help, but I'm not sure your assertion is testable.

I don't really have time to catch up on all of today's comments since I've been on a plane all day and now need to go to bed, but what the heck happened? I went back and looked at the play-by-play and saw that Manny got doubled up on a line drive with no outs? How?

Anywho, it seems that all this unclutch hitting is the Achilles' heel of a team that doesn't hit a lot of homers when things go wrong, but you would think that the luck will turn back in our favor soon. Things have been positively brutal lately, but we're still only 3 games back as long as the Padres hold on.

And on a final note, I'm not sure which gymnast is on Leno tonight (I'm on the east coast) or how old she is, but she's quite attractive.

574 - Smash right to third base. Manny had no chance. Zimmmerman had a great game.

I can't wait until I am in attendance for all 3 games in SD when the Dodgers are hitting with RISP and kicking John David and taking names.

574 - Nastia Liukin, apparently

Old friend Falkenborg trying to set fire to an 8-2 lead, loading the bases with two two-out walks (Jackson and Dunn), but Heath Bell Ks Reynolds to end the top of the 8th.

569 - I also find myself wondering why Ethier, Loney and Martin are being singled out.

You know, all the bad karma seems to work both ways. To have a such a bad game against the worst team in MLB (I insist it's the Nationals) and then all of a sudden, 3 hours later, watch the Padres DOMINATE the Dbacks and Webb.

It's surreal...

573
I need to come out with a new top 10 soon.

572

Seriously.

Kemp looks to be improving, while guys like Chris Young and Delmon Young appear to have utterly stalled out.

578

Thanks Jon. Sorry for the bad syntax. You found better words than I did.

Gerut does it again! I'm almost feeling bad for Rauch.

576 Dang, sounds about right for how things have been going lately.

I've been a bit bummed that I haven't been able to watch many games lately due to traveling a lot, but considering how most of those games have ended up as well as how frustrating the games I've actually been able to watch have turned out, a break from this team might be good for me. I'll probably miss the next two games since I'm in Florida right now (though I'm planning on going to tomorrow's Suns game) and I might miss the weekend series while I'm in Catalina, but I'll be going to games on Tuesday, Friday, and Saturday next week so I'm hoping the team is at least still within a couple games by the time I'm at the ballpark.

552 "Honeydripper" is worth more than a half-watching. Give it your full attention and you'll be glad you did.

574 What killed the Dodgers more than that double play was the situation where Manny failed to score the tying run on Loney's single. That play lost the game right there. I'm not sure who deserves more blame, Manny for loafing or Bowa for reading the play poorly. But he would have scored easily, without a play.

Going into this year, who would have thought that the Dodgers' season would be effectively ended by the relief pitching of closer Joel Hanrahan? Baseball is strange. And Ryan Zimmerman is a defensive god.

571 The 'prove you are right' argument needs to be offered up more often, as rule 6 tends to be broken quite often by some willing to push the team off the plank. We need to acknowledge that baseball is a sum of it's parts. There is nothing wrong with the Dodgers chemistry, they seem to like each other very much, and the joy is genuine when things are going well. 5 games is not the worst we have seen from good teams by any means. Look at where the Mets have been to and back this season. Look at the Rockies. These things have a way of evening towards the evening, and the Dodgers are composed like a genuine play-off team (consistently good pitching, good hitters, risk taking youngsters, and situational veterans) they just have a timing problem right now. That's all. I want to believe this, so I will.

Game over: Padres win 9-2 over AZ.

This is good, but now I'm worried about the Rockies. Could they pull a magic September two years in a row??

If Arizona loses tonight and finishes out playing .500, they finish with 83 wins. The Dodgers would have to finish 19-11 (.633) to win the division with 84 wins, or play .600 ball to tie.

Time is really getting short.

563 - which is a good thing because I'm rooting for the Phils after the embarrassing way the Mets handled Willy Randolph's firing.

I haven't been having a good week here on DT... I'm sorry for posting such lousy content this week. I'll retire momentarily as I regroup mentally. 'Nite all.

I'm glad to see that Arizona is human, after all though. If the Dodgers can get up off the mat and beat the Nats tomorrow, there's still hope.

583 - is he? In what dimensions, and how? Not that I'm intrinsically skeptical of this statement, but I do think that Kemp seems to be rather limited in some ways, and that charges of developmental stalling could be justified. He has good AB's sometimes but then just sleepwalks through others. I recognize that this is part and parcel of having a good young player, but if you think he's improving, improving how? And from what?

586 Indeed! I'm glad I paid attention. It takes its own sweet time, but that's what it is - sweet. It's really beautifully done. You have to have an attention span and some patience but it's great, Sayles' best film in years.

Er, the Dodgers' season ended tonight? Darnit, I had no warning about that. Now what am I gonna do til football season starts! ;-)

587 Very well said.

479 As a Dodgers fan since 1955, I am at a loss for words...

You don't go back far enough. Between 1920 and 1941, the Brooklyn Dodgers didn't win the NL pennant once. By the mid-1930s they were the Bums - 15 years winless, and then some. Even when they won pennants galore in the 40s and 50s, they couldn't remove the tag at least until they won the Series in your 1955, or until they arrived in LA in 1958.

Well, it's now been 20 years since they won the NL pennant (NLCS). They've reverted to being the Bums. That's how they've played the last week anyway. Does anyone find them lovable?

593
So you can only be more disappointed.
;)

592 Kemp regresses in individual at bats, to be sure, and has bad games even, but you can't have watched him all this season and not feel like he's improved. It seems like there's consensus about this from Dodgers coaches, teammates, scouts and even overly critical ESPN announcers. But separate from that, Kemp's shown improved patience a lot of the time (not all the time, which is what I'd like), is a much better leadoff hitter than anyone other than Furcal they could put there, and while he's made mistakes, had bad at bats, and so on, watching him this whole season I can't imagine not thinking him improved overall. He has to keep improving next year of course.

But meanwhile, CY has clearly regressed.

595 - Sez you! ;-)

Ah, football season, like baseball season, is invariably disappointing to fans of all but one team, but if your expectations are fairly realistic, as mine are, I may even finish the season not disappointed!

On the other hand, what is being a sports fan if not incredibly painful and frustrating much of the time.

Okay, after a break, back to watch the end of Honeydripper.

Over the last few nights, two different announcing crews (the ESPN crew on Sunday and the Nats crew tonight) have mentioned that scouts believe Kemp to be the most improved player in the majors. That's not necessarily the final word on the subject, but it's worth considering.

As for "sleepwalking" through at-bats: I'm calling nonsense on that one. Too many people seem to confuse undesirable results with a lack of effort. Kemp has shown much better pitch recognition, but yes, he still has times where he's unable to recognize a breaking pitch in time to lay off it. That doesn't necessarily indicate "sleepwalking," or a lack of preparation, or a lack of desire. If anything, it probably indicates that he's trying too hard.

Kemp's approach has improved noticeably from the "wait for a curveball, then try to slap it to the opposite field for a single" approach he employed during the first third of this year. He's also drastically improved his baserunning and defense (both of which improvements are easily observed, and also confirmed statistically).

596
I thought same thing and then I looked at Kemp's numbers from last year and he was better. Granted, it was only 98 games, but he had an OPS+125 with an OBP over .370.

But that may have just been really lucky, of course, I think people say his stats are lucky this year too.

597
I just want 7 wins.

571 They've had one very bad week.

With all due respect, can one bad week really explain a 132 game schedule that has them at 65-67? If the team were 85-47 and this past week had just happened, then the one bad week makes more sense. In reality they have had one bad season, no?

It would almost be akin to blaming the last 20 years on last year. They haven't had just one bad year, they have had 20 bad years. There is something wrong with the organization.

Certainly, I wouldn't blame defeatist thoughts, or a curse or anythig of that nature, but no doubt there is something wrong with this franchise and it stretches back quite a number of years. At least 20, and one could argue more then that.

Kemp's walk rate is slightly up, 5.1% of his PAs last year were BBs; it's 6.9% this year. It's faint praise, but at that rate, Pierre would have walked 50 times last season instead of 33.

596 "He has to keep improving next year of course."

One would hope that's the case, of course, but I'm not sure it's strictly necessary. Even if Kemp were to never improve from this point forward, he'd still be a very valuable player -- one of the best players in baseball. He's the 15th-best player in MLB this year with 20 win shares (actually tied for 15th with Webb, Burrell, and Soto).

I get the feeling that Kemp will be viewed as a disappointment if he doesn't improve from here on out, but that shouldn't be the case. He's a star-caliber player as it is.

603
I thought VORP was a better stat than win shares?

604 Lots of people like lots of different things. I happen to prefer Win Shares, because it includes defense.

But that's really beside the point. No matter which metric you prefer, Kemp's going to grade out as a really good player.

601.
"They haven't had just one bad year, they have had 20 bad years."

Basically my whole life.
=*(

Kemp, before tonight, with 57% of his time in CF: .298 .347 .479, 55 XBH. Were we expecting much more from Andruw Jones?

601 - Oh, I completely agree that the franchise has had countless mistakes since 1988 - and in its entire history, for that matter.

But I don't think that defeatism is a relevant point to be made.

Most of Kemps value is in CF, so as long as he stays there he's good.

20 bad years is a bit of a hyperbole. 4 90+ win teams, plus two others that made the playoffs. It's not stellar for a big-market franchise with resources, but it's not complete despair either.

On the other hand, one could argue that the Dodgers have had the worst 20 years of any team in the majors in terms of expectations vs. results. (Their competition would probably be the Mets.)

608 I agree with you Jon.

This is/was being discussed on another Dodger list I belong to.

Obviously I don't think a curse, or bad Karma, defeatism, whatever one wants to call it is to blame for the last 20 years.

But one can't blame McCourt or Murdoch or O'Malley alone either. Nor can they blame Colletti, DePodesta, Evans, Malone, or Claire either. Nor can they blame Torre, Little, Tracy, Johnson, Hoffman, Russell, or LaSorda either. Nor can they blame all the players during those time periods.

It really seems to matter very little who is in charge from top-to-bottom. Or who is playing.

There seems to be a fundamental flaw in the organization that keeps repeating itself regardless of the ones making the decisions.

I honestly believe it's large-market syndrome that gets in the way of making the right decisions for the long term future of the organization. But I guess that's a topic for another day.

Dodgers have been pretty mediocre during my life. Not counting 1988, since I can't remember it to save my life. I remember how happy I was when Fox bought the team, because I thought they would just buy all these great players.

610 Eric answers it perfectly in 611 .

One needs to look at expectation when determining success. Expectation for a team like the Dodgers has to begin and end with amount of playoff success. Not regular season success.

I can't imagine "any" Dodger fan in 1988 expecting 1 playoff game won in the following 20 years. No matter how one looks at it, that's 20 bad years.

594 - I find them quite lovable. I have the Lakers for my unquenchable desire to win a title every year. The Dodgers are something to pass the summer with. They are my summer fling. Every spring, I fall in love with them, spend every night with them during the summer. Then in August things start to get stale, they start trying my patience, I start looking for other releases, and by September we go our separate ways.

Then we do it all over again in March.

If they D'Backs don't win the division they will look back on these two loses to the Padres as a turning point. They had the opportunity to push the Dodgers off the cliff and they fell down themselves.

NL West motto: "The Division No One Wants To Win."

The Dodgers were good before thinkblue88 was born. Now they're not.

You do the math.

I haven't been here in a while because this team is unbearable.

Question: Have the words "Colletti" and "fired" been written a lot lately?

It must kill the Cardnials to watch the NL West and know they wont be playing in Oct.

(And I revel in their agony)

Stanford will refund season ticket holders if they don't think the team is entertaining enough.

http://tinyurl.com/5zmag7

571 - First of all, I cannot obviously provide some empirical formula to judge the psyche of this Dodger unit as justification for an admitted opinion. If some codified rule requires that, then I have violated its provisions and apologize. And whether it's "haywire" analysis or not, what is blatantly apparent is that the Dodgers are continuously failing in routine scoring situations in which a healthy dose of fortitude is required. Perhaps one can take the mathematical approach and claim that this painful stretch of leaving runners in scoring position is a process that will inevitably reverse itself by virtue of statistical probability. Okay, maybe; but when? Next year? Point is: our nucleus of youngsters have been the heart of the team for two seasons running, and while they've each had individually meritorious sequences of production and are solid players in their own right, when operating in conjunction, something is afoul. GLittle felt it, and couldn't right the ship. Now Torre's got it in his lap and what can he say? They feel OFF as a unit, and are somehow good at frequently reverting to this style of non-productivity.

616 Or how about, "Welcome to the NL West: Home of the Lemmings"?

600 7 wins should be do-able, given they have a good running game and defense and the division is still fairly weak, though I expect Denver to be better, too, and the Chiefs not quite as horrible (though still pretty bad), while the Chargers will probably regress slightly. So yeah, that seems very possible. Andthing more than that and it's a very nice surprise for you, much less and maybe Al will fire himself. ;-)

621
Heart of team?

There are 4 position players that would be considered young and it took forever for Ethier to get the starting spot. Then you have Bills and Broxton. Kershaw is there now, but he has not been up long.

Last year they all were in and out of the lineup aside from Martin.

622
I have been wanting 7-8 wins for last 5 years, so I am not exactly holding my breath.

Though last year it was nice, just because that Art Shell team was historically bad.

612 - But one can't blame McCourt or Murdoch or O'Malley alone either.

Oh, yes I can. At least, with the current regime, you can point directly to a firing (DePodesta) of a competent GM who was immediately replaced with an incompetent one.

I think Denver is in for a 7 win season. Their O-Line and D-line are as bad as Oakland's. Center is out with knee surgery, 1st round pick isn't wowing anyone, age is creeping up on others, RBs are solid but not spectacular, they lack depth at RB and WR...

Only 3 out. We can do this. We just need a big breakout game. 6 with backs coming soon.

621 Here are the current OPS+ numbers for the 2008 season:
Ramirez 178
Kemp 112
Ethier 107
RMartin 107
Loney 106

Kent 93
Blake 87
Nomar 81
Pierre 67
Berroa 46
AJones 35
Sweeney 14
Ozuna 13

The 4 "youngsters" are all above average offensively; it's the non-youngsters who are mainly to blame for the offensive woes.

628 - That's entirely possible, but I think you're wrong about a couple of areas. 1 - Their DL will be improved, it's a young group for the most part that is starting to gel together and they couldn't be any worse than last year! (I do worry about lack of depth at LB though.) 2) Their OL will be fine. Ryan Clady already looks great, tho he'll make some rookie mistakes and Ryan Harris is good, too. Nalen will be back within a couple weeks into the season. 3) Brandon Marshall is key but they have better depth at WR than they've had in years, actually, with Stokely, the rookie Eddie Royal looking really good, Darrell Jackson (who should be better than in SF, though he could also be a total bust), Keary Colbert, plus good TEs and an improving Cutler. There are def. questions about running game/depth, though when Ryan Torain is healthy that should be better.

Anyway, there are still plenty of questions about them, and some variables, but between an easier schedule this year and an improved defense 7 wins would be disappointing. Maybe Shanahan would fire himself then. ;-)

605

Did you see that article I posted a while back on how VORP undervalues walks?

592

I couldn't really address this earlier, and some posters have already answered it better than I have, but Kemp has slightly improved his walk rate, is playing better defense, and doesn't make quite so many crazy baserunning blunders.

Check out comparisons to other highly hyped young outfielders and check where he stands based on the good old OBP/ SLG/ OPS triumvirate:

Matt Kemp: .346/ .478/ .824

Delmon Young: .331/ .402/ .733
Chris Young: .305/ .431/ .736
Jeff Francouer: .285/ .347/ .632
BJ Upton: .380/ .396/ .776
Jeremy Hermida: .327/ .421/ .747

He's also younger than a lot of these guys.

A scary thought is if we didn't have Kemp this year. Man, this team would suck.

630 Who's this AJones fellow of which you speak?

;-)

Seems a lot of things being talked about tonight.

1. I think the Dodgers need to only worry about themselves and let the rest play out. They still control their destiny and its obvious Manny Ramirez nor Adam Dunn alone is going to take their teams to the division title.

2. If Torre keeps Ethier out there and refuses to start playing Pierre, then to me, the writing is on the wall that whomever is the GM, getting rid of Pierre will be the first thing he or she must do this off-season.

3. If the Dodgers keep getting pitching from Kuroda, Bills, Lowe and occasional good starts from Maddux and Kershaw, they will be in this thing to the end.

4. USC is not worried about UCLA or any ad until the first week of December. Actually, its good media play leading into the nationally televised game next Monday.

5. I agree with KG16, the NBA and the Lakers are much more predictable in the sense of there are more playoff spots and I am looking forward to seeing how Kobe, Pau and Bynum look in November.

6. Ben Howland is a great coach (and he does great weekly press conferences) but he thinks every team UCLA plays is just a step away from the NBA.

7. Are the Raiders still in the league (just joking)? Heck Leinart couldn't beat them.

Didn't we go through a crazy RISP drought last August? I mean really crazy, just like the current one.

634 Amen, brother.

You only forgot to review Honeydripper.

For all that talk about how well Kent was hitting after being put in the third spot of the order ahead of Manny, all he was really doing was hitting line drive singles or one-hop singles. Even the Kent of last season would have gone deep on some of those pitches. He's not elevating the ball anymore.

634
No one is interested in how Baron, Kamen, Camby, Ricky Davis, and Thornton jell?

I have always liked Ricky Davis, because of his reaction after this one dunk...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KM_ryXXjA8

634
Ben Howland always takes the high road unlike a certain old man in the desert.

635 - Absolutely.

re: kemp. no doubt he's grown alot over the course of the season, but it seems like his default is to swing instead of taking a pitch. when the count is 2-0 or 3-1 he makes up his mind that the pitcher will have to throw a strike so he's hacking. also when he's down 2 strikes he stops being aggressive and instead of attacking the ball when it's a mistake pitch, he would try to make contact and punch it somewhere weakly(too much coaching/afraid of striking out??).

kemp and billz are my 2 favorite baseball players so maybe i'm overly harsh. i hope MK learns plate discipline and not go the way of CY or francoeur. he has a beautiful swing and hits line drives all over the yard. i'd like for him to step into pitches more and hit with more backspin to get those home run strokes. right now i see him using just his upper body which shows how strong he is because most of his hrs now are oppo shots.

NPUT

642 - "also when he's down 2 strikes he stops being aggressive and instead of attacking the ball when it's a mistake pitch, he would try to make contact and punch it somewhere"

Isn't that SOP for major league hitters?

Seems to me that right about now is when the PVL should kick in. Guys like Kent, Manny, Lowe, Nomar and Blake -- not to overlook Torre, Mattingly and Honeycutt -- are supposed to be have an aura that will help right the ship. Seriously. They should be able to get the young guys to calm down, take it easy, stop stressing out and focus on what they can control. If the PVL theory has any merit, this team should be able to turn things around. We have more PVLs than 'Zona, so that means we should be able to pass them.

Alternate theory: We have the exact wrong mix of players for a pennant race. Our players are either too young or too old to avoid fatigue in September. The young guys are used to shorter seasons and haven't yet learned to pace themselves (Kemp excluded). The old guys are just worn-down (Manny excluded). Hence, the bats aren't getting around on balls as fast as they were before, and the pitches don't have the same snap.