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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Hill Makes Remarkable Recovery
2008-09-02 09:49
by Jon Weisman

Last October, a table saw mishap severed all but one finger on the right hand of ex-Dodger Koyie Hill. Amazingly, Hill has made it back to the big leagues with the Cubs, writes Carrie Muskat of (link via 6-4-2).

* * *

Look for Dodger Thoughts commenter CanuckDodger's organization prospect ratings in the comments below.

Comments (257)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-09-02 10:28:58
1.   ToyCannon
Silverwidow - thanks for the link to the Josh story in the last thread.
2008-09-02 10:30:07
2.   silverwidow
1 Sure.

Now, let's get some rankings!

2008-09-02 10:31:57
3.   ToyCannon
That is amazing, it is one thing to lose a finger and get it reattached but to lose a thumb and multiple fingers, it is incredible that he can be a major league catcher.
2008-09-02 10:32:29
4.   ToyCannon
He is going to tease us now and not post until after PCT lunch.
2008-09-02 10:33:19
5.   silverwidow
I expect a big drop for Chris Withrow.
2008-09-02 10:39:57
6.   Tripon
Where was Lambo last year? He's gotta be top five this year.
2008-09-02 10:40:10
7.   ToyCannon
I think Canuck is still very high on him. I'm guessing top 5:
2008-09-02 10:41:37
8.   LogikReader
In a world where there was one very distinctive voiceover announcer, Don LaFontaine passes away. Not sure if it was already posted, here you go.

This is another sad day for me and the promo industry.

2008-09-02 10:42:30
9.   Tripon
Saito thinks he can make it back this year.

"I'm very confident that I'm going to be back on the mound this season," Saito said through an interpreter.

2008-09-02 10:42:31
10.   Tripon
Saito thinks he can make it back this year.

"I'm very confident that I'm going to be back on the mound this season," Saito said through an interpreter.

2008-09-02 10:44:23
11.   natepurcell
Dejesus ended the year like a manchild. He is very captivating considering he improved his power output and still maintained a very healthy walk rate.
2008-09-02 10:45:21
12.   silverwidow
7 Eovaldi is a sleeper top 10 pick. He was already promoted to Ogden and continues to pitch excellent.
2008-09-02 10:48:31
13.   Eric Stephen
That's awful. His voice was so distinctive. "In a world..."
2008-09-02 10:48:47
14.   jujibee
Who is Anthony Delmonico? His stats look pretty impressive.
2008-09-02 10:48:48
15.   natepurcell
Lindblom is probably top 10 as well. You can't ignore him. Gallagher too even though he ended his season in a slump.
2008-09-02 10:50:03
16.   ToyCannon
This was his ranking last year. We lost Kershaw, Hu, DeWitt, Troncoso, and D Young to rookie status. We lost Meloan, LaRoche, and Morris to trades.

Kershaw, Clayton 1
LaRoche, Andy 2
Hu, Chin-Lung 3
Mcdonald, James 4
Meloan, Jon 5
DeWitt, Blake 6
Winthrow 7
DeJesus, Ivan 8
Bell, Joshua 9
Paul, Xavier , CF 10
Elbert, Scott 11
Morris, Bryan 12
Miller, Greg 13
Lambo 14
Young, Delwyn 15
Orenduff, Justin, SP 16
Troncoso, Ramon, RP 18
Hammes, Zachary 19
Watt 20
Mattingly, Preston, 2b 21
Smit 22
Ortiz, Jamie 23
Wall 24
Gallagher 25
Adkins, James 26
Johnson, Steve 27
Sexton 28
Mathews 29
Pedroza, Jamie 30

2008-09-02 10:51:33
17.   Jon Weisman
Cory Wade really came out of nowhere.
2008-09-02 10:52:17
18.   ToyCannon
He was the starting SS and made a key error in the College World Series. The word is that the Dodgers are going to convert him to catcher this winter.
2008-09-02 10:54:15
19.   ToyCannon
I'm proud to note that I had Carlos Santana on my top 30 list while most had given up on him.
2008-09-02 10:54:53
20.   regfairfield
7 Based on previous comments Gallagher is number six.

17 I'm pretty surprised I was higher on Wade than Canuck. I had him at like 27.

2008-09-02 10:55:17
21.   D4P
Quit being so humble.
2008-09-02 10:57:08
22.   Tripon
16 Can't see Greg Miller making top 25 this year.
2008-09-02 10:57:46
23.   ToyCannon
As we await Canucks list, the True Blue community prospect list headed into 2008 is an interesting read.
2008-09-02 10:58:50
24.   regfairfield
19 I'll take credit for having Lambo at #7 and Gallagher at 13. Actually I might have somehow lucked into having a better list than Canuck. Broken clock and all that.
2008-09-02 11:02:00
25.   Jon Weisman
Good feature on Alec Baldwin ...

2008-09-02 11:02:30
26.   Tripon
Torre said McDonald, the Dodgers' minor league pitcher of the year in 2007, will be limited to long-relief appearances for the rest of this season. McDonald had a 3.63 ERA in five appearances (four starts) in Las Vegas. "We're not going to run him out of the bullpen in the middle of an inning," Torre said. "We'll give him a little exposure and sort of get that out of the way."
2008-09-02 11:02:58
27.   Tripon
26 Forgot the link.

2008-09-02 11:10:17
28.   CanuckDodger
This is a tough year to be making out a Top 30 Dodger Prospects list for the next year. Between prospects graduating to the Dodgers' big league team (Woohoo!), and being traded away (Boo!), our system has been thinning out. I felt pretty good writing up the first half of my list this year, but the second half -- well, in some spots just coming up with names seemed like hard work. I usually don't like to rank anybody on whom I have zero scouting information, but our thinner-than-usual talent pool forced me to include four names in the Top 30 whose statistics couldn't be ignored in the absence of better performances from players whose tools I know something about. Also, we are going to lose two prospects to the Padres as the price of having Greg Maddux around, and since both of those players are likely among our Top 30 prospects, I have made my list run to 32 names. I will also note that I am assuming that Ramon Troncoso is not going to get enough MLB innings between now and the end of the season to lose his prospect eligibility. The list is by no means written in stone, and I am sure I will reconsider my evaluation of a few guys as new information becomes available, or I just change my mind on a whim, but the current list is an accurate reflection of my thinking right now. Questions and/or comments are welcome.

01. Scott Elbert, LHP
02. Andrew Lambo, OF
03. Ivan DeJesus, Jr. SS
04. James McDonald, RHP
05. Ethan Martin, RHP
06. Josh Lindblom, RHP
07. Austin Gallagher, 3B
08. Josh Bell, 3B
09. Chris Withrow, RHP
10. Ramon Troncoso, RHP
11. Michael Watt, LHP
12. Nathan Eovaldi, RHP
13. Steve Johnson, RHP
14. Geison Aguasviva, LHP
15. James Adkins, LHP
16. Xavier Paul, OF
17. Jon Michael Redding, RHP
18. Josh Wall, RHP
19. Tony Delmonico, 2B
20. Jesus Castillo, RHP
21. Devaris Strange-Gordon, SS
22. Justin Miller, RHP
23. Pedro Baez, 3B
24. Jaime Pedroza, SS
25. Tim Sexton, RHP
26. Matt Sartor, RHP
27. Elisaul Pimentel, RHP
28. Victor Garate, LHP
29. Miguel Sanfler, LHP
30. Francisco Felix, RHP
31. Cole St. Clair, LHP
32. Kyle Russell, OF

2008-09-02 11:16:19
29.   regfairfield
That is a really sad bottom half.
2008-09-02 11:17:28
30.   delias man
I am not really questioning it either way, but just wondering how Ethan Martin goes so high without any IP yet?
2008-09-02 11:17:33
31.   LogikReader

Good list, Canuck! I will defer to everyone else here, as my knowledge of the minors is limited.

However, the phrase "our system has been thinning out" really worries me. For the last year and a half I feared NedCo would slowly destroy the farm system. Do you think this will continue?

2008-09-02 11:24:37
32.   natepurcell
If we play our cards right, we should have a lot of picks in the next draft to reload.
2008-09-02 11:26:10
33.   Tripon
28 Greg Miller just fell off the list?
2008-09-02 11:27:07
34.   CanuckDodger
30 -- Ethan Martin -- Impeccable tools, impeccable scouting reports. The injury that kept him out of action wasn't to his arm and wasn't serious, so that shouldn't be held against him.

31 -- Yes, if Colletti continues to be our GM, between the graduations to the majors that will occur and Colletti's love of trading for "experience," I can see our farm being depleted faster than Logan White can replenish it.

2008-09-02 11:29:39
35.   natepurcell
If Blake keeps mashing, he will play his way into type A status.

With Blake, Lowe and Manny, right there are 6 potential 1st+supp picks.

2008-09-02 11:29:46
36.   bhsportsguy
31 Ned has not destroyed the farm system, in the sense of the depth you are talking about. Its clear that right now, the drafts from 2004 have not produced the number of major league and potential major league talent as the 2002 and 2003 drafts.
From the 2004 draft, DeWitt, Elbert and Wade are on the 40 man roster and from 2005, only Jon Meloan has made a Major League appearance.

There are more players from the 2006-2008 period (when Ned has been GM, than from the 2004-2005 period when Paul Depodesta was the GM) on Canuck's list and while Ned certainly has dealt players who would have been on this list, the dearth of prospects from 2004-2005 is what hurting the depth of the system.

2008-09-02 11:29:56
37.   CanuckDodger
33 -- 2008 was a "last chance" year for Greg Miller's prospect status, as far as I was concerned. He is even out of options after this year.
2008-09-02 11:30:26
38.   silverwidow
Why is Withrow better than Eovaldi? They have similar skill sets, but that latter is younger and has better control.
2008-09-02 11:32:30
39.   underdog
Seems like a very solid list, Canuck. Hard to disagree with it overall. Thanks. I like having Lambo way up there, he's really vaulted himself to near the top in lightning quick fashion. I'm still pretty happy with the Dodgers top 10, even with the graduations and trades.

I don't know, I feel like the fact that the last 5-10 names don't excite isn't something to gnash teeth over too much. I'd be hard pressed to name too many ML franchises (I know there are a few) that could give you a top 40 players list with the bottom names ones that are surefire impressive. Am I off base on that? I think we're a little spoiled by the previous few years with the Dodgers. And I would expect this list to look more impressive again next year with international scouting, a number of high picks next year and so on.

2008-09-02 11:35:54
40.   Eric Stephen
Justin Ruggiano, also from the 2004 draft, has had a cup of coffee with The Best Team in Baseball™.
2008-09-02 11:36:59
41.   Humma Kavula
35 But the Dodgers will almost certainly sign some free agent this off-season, don't you think? (Or maybe you don't think this. Do you believe that the Dodgers will look to in-house options for 2B and SS and 3B?)

Unless the Dodgers finish very poorly (and secure their pick), they will lose their draft picks when they sign someone, right?

2008-09-02 11:37:36
42.   ToyCannon
He hasn't destroyed it but he has thinned it out. Just figure where the guys he traded would be on the list.
Morris - top 10
Santana - top 10
Meloan - top 10

I'm not saying yes or no on the deals but you cannot deny he has thinned the depth. The 2004 draft has both Elbert and DeWitt on the major league roster. For a few years we were wondering if they would pan but right now they are looking spot on. The 2005 draft other then DeJesus is certainly his worse draft. You could also argue that during Ned's reign he has invested very little in quality international signings. The one nugget Baez regressed big time this year.

2008-09-02 11:38:43
43.   Sean P

Matt Sartor should be placed a little higher, no? He has put up outstanding numbers in the Cal League and is only 23. Or am I missing something on the guy?

2008-09-02 11:39:17
44.   ToyCannon
I agree, I think we end up with a push. I wouldn't be counting our draft picks until the dust settles.
2008-09-02 11:39:57
45.   regfairfield
39 Do we have a good idea of who Logan White would have taken in those drafts if we're blaming DePo? Was Phil Hughes on the radar?
2008-09-02 11:41:04
46.   regfairfield
43 23 is old for a guy with half a season in the Cal league.
2008-09-02 11:41:14
47.   natepurcell

I'm expecting they will re-up furcal for a year and go in house at 2b. 3b is interesting because there isn't a lot out there on the market. If Blake wants to come back for one year on an arb contract, that's fine but I'm expecting him to get a longer term deal.

3b might be the target for a trade. Hank Blalock? Adrian Beltre? I dunno, just throwing out names.

2008-09-02 11:41:35
48.   kinbote
28 What do you think we'll do with Elbert next year? L.A. bullpen or AA rotation?
2008-09-02 11:42:39
49.   gibsonhobbs88
8, 13 - I actually knew Don LaFontaine and his family and am saddened to hear of his passing. He had become known as "One take Don" in his industry and that is why he was in such demand because he would save the producers money by just needing one take to do the trailer. He had a great sense of humor and for being very wealthy, he never acted like it, maybe because he worked and scraped to succeed. He was also a very generous and loving man who worshipped in the same church with his family as my wife and I for about 17 years. He participated in the golf tournament in my dad's honor a couple times and one time at our post game meal at a restaurant, he sprung for everyone's meal, just on a whim. (Those meals were always paid individually by the people that attended the event). Our heart goes out to his wife Anita and his daughters.

Any new news on Furcal? Is he even going to be able to pinch hit or do anything in September? Is he toast for 2008? I haven't heard anything new about his progress lately.

2008-09-02 11:43:02
50.   dodgerbob
I'm a longtime lurker, infrequent poster.
Good list! The only name I might add, in place of about anyone in the bottom half of the list, would be Lucas May.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-09-02 11:43:40
51.   regfairfield
Brignac and Gallardo were the only other useful high schoolers taken in the first two rounds that year. Would we have grabbed them?
2008-09-02 11:43:58
52.   natepurcell

I think in the 2005 I read somewhere that Logan like Clay Buccholz.

2008-09-02 11:44:23
53.   CanuckDodger
38 -- Eovaldi had an inconsistent slider before needing Tommy John surgery in high school, and he couldn't throw a breaking ball at all after getting back into action in high school. Maybe that has changed since the Dodgers drafted him, but I don't know. Right now, I am rating Eovaldi as high as I am because the Dodgers say they have clocked his fastball as high as 96 MPH and he has performed well in a few innings as a pro. Withrow, before this year, had both the plus fastball and a good curve, and I am also taking into account Charlie Hough's opinion that Withrow has a better arm than Kershaw.
2008-09-02 11:44:56
54.   underdog
48 AA rotation?

I think he'll start in the bullpen and be given a shot at starting.

We could have a:
rotation before our eyes at some point next season.

Throw in Kuroda/Penny/or a FA (drool, Sabathia) + McDonald and that's a pretty good future.

2008-09-02 11:46:45
55.   silverwidow
38 I am also taking into account Charlie Hough's opinion that Withrow has a better arm than Kershaw.

Wow, I never knew this.

2008-09-02 11:51:05
56.   Humma Kavula
54 Inviting idle speculation:

Is the current hubbub about the Brewers possibly overusing Sabathia a genuine story that should concern potential bidders for CC, or overblown hype? Should the buyer beware? Or is CC one of those freaks that can throw limitless innings? Or has he not actually been overused all that much (I admit, I haven't been checking his pitch counts)?

2008-09-02 11:52:58
57.   CanuckDodger
43 -- Sartor is one of the guys whose stuff I know nothing about, so I was never going to be bold in ranking him. Like Reg says, at 23 he was not young for high A, but I might not have been deterred by that if I at least knew he throws hard and has a nice breaking ball. But the stats are nice and deserve some recognition. He might be the next Cory Wade.
2008-09-02 11:57:27
58.   Johnny Nucleo
48 I always liked Earl Weaver's adage about getting pitchers' feet wet in long relief.
2008-09-02 11:58:29
59.   larry slimfast
Colletti wouldn't have had to thin out the prospect pool if he would have made some good better free-agent signings... or just not made some at all. I think he values the kids more than we think. He just doesn't recognize the point of diminishing returns with the older players. I do hope he is replaced with White after this season no matter the outcome.
2008-09-02 11:59:01
60.   CanuckDodger
48 -- That is a question I have been asking myself, and what we end up doing with Elbert may depend on how well Elbert performs as a reliever in front of Torre this month. If Elbert looks as good as he as so far for the rest of September, Elbert's future may resemble that of Broxton more than Billingsley or Kershaw -- meaning, he could become a reliever permanently.
2008-09-02 12:00:52
61.   Sean P


2008-09-02 12:00:55
62.   Kevin Lewis
Maybe I shouldn't try to understand Simers, but his latest on Kent perplexes me. He spends 75% of the article bashing Kent and saying no one will miss him, and then he ends the article with an anecdotal story on how Jeff Kent might be misunderstood and that he may be a decent guy after all.
2008-09-02 12:01:28
63.   trainwreck
I take it that Orr has not been very good then?
2008-09-02 12:02:22
64.   Sean P

I don't think he understands himself.

2008-09-02 12:03:23
65.   underdog
63 Must be the case, if a fellow Canuck leaves him off the list. ;-)
2008-09-02 12:05:19
66.   Jon Weisman
62 - I don't think those are mutually exclusive: saying no one will miss him and saying he's misunderstood.
2008-09-02 12:12:12
67.   CanuckDodger
63 -- Orr has been disappointing, but there is always a risk taking Canadian players who have been untested in a college league in the US. The level of competition Canadian teens face is so poor that the jump to even the lowest level of the pros in the US is really, really huge.
2008-09-02 12:12:46
68.   Ken Noe
What I notice most immediately about Canuck's list (and thanks for it!) is the absence of a catcher now that Santana's gone for a few weeks of Blake. Canuck, is May that bad? Is there anyone out there about to be switched to behind the plate?
2008-09-02 12:14:38
69.   larry slimfast
47 Martin's the 3rd baseman next year... I'd bank on it. They want him to play everyday. He wants to play everyday. It's a questionable decision but not a terrible one.

I just hope this it's someone like Javier Valentin for very cheap that replaces him and not the surely overpriced Varitek. They'd produce about the same.

A trade of a prospect for a catcher would be foolish unless a lot of salary and one of the overpriced outfielders could be moved. Even then it better be an awesome catcher and at least a replacable prospect.

2008-09-02 12:14:49
70.   Sean P

He's putting up .220/.283/.384/.667 with 64K to 14BB in 178 PA in his second year of rookie ball.

2008-09-02 12:16:28
71.   Eric Stephen
Tonight will be Kershaw's 2nd start against the Padres, but it's not quite that since most of the lineup he faced June 10 will not be the lineup tonight:

CF Hairston - out for season
2B E.Gonzalez - Antonelli is starting now
RF Giles
1B A.Gonzalez
3B Kouzmanoff
SS Greene - injured
LF Huber - Headley is starting now
C Barrett - Hundley is starting now

Here is how Kershaw has fared in his other "2nd time around" starts:

July 22 @ Colorado: 3 IP, 10 H, 5 R, 3 BB, 2 K
Aug 7 @ St. Louis: 7 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 4 BB, 7 K (highest game score of the year -- 70)
Aug 23 @ Philly: 4 IP, 7 H, 6 R, 2 BB, 5 K

2008-09-02 12:16:53
72.   Kevin Lewis

I agree with you on that point, and Jeff is certainly responsible for some of that perception. I guess the article content and tone did not gel well with the final paragraph, especially with no discussion about the anecdote. It felt jagged and rough.

2008-09-02 12:17:34
73.   surfing slug
Can anyone tell me the ave. MPH to Elbert's fastball?
2008-09-02 12:18:20
74.   cargill06
68 Know nothing about him, but last thread someone mentioned that Anthony Delmonico is rumored to be converted to a catcher.
2008-09-02 12:18:49
75.   Jon Weisman
72 - That, I will not argue with.
2008-09-02 12:20:05
76.   Jon Weisman
69 - I disagree. Martin will stay at catcher. Moving him to third is no way to improve an offense everyone agrees needs improving.
2008-09-02 12:22:39
77.   dodgerbob
OMAHA -- Logan White doesn't want to make everyone a catcher. But it would seem the thought does cross his mind quite a bit.
So it wasn't much of a surprise when the Dodgers' assistant general manager in charge of amateur scouting suggested that two of the players he selected in last week's First-Year Player Draft might, at some point, trade in their infielder's gloves for some catching gear. Florida State's Tony Delmonico, whom Los Angeles grabbed in the sixth round, and Stanford's Austin Yount, who was tabbed in the 12th round, will square off in the opening game of the College World Series Saturday afternoon at Rosenblatt Stadium
2008-09-02 12:26:35
78.   CanuckDodger
68 -- I have no faith in May as a catcher, and I wonder if the attempt to convert him to catching should be judged a failure and he should be allowed to go back to the outfield. His defense is terrible as a catcher, and Elbert said in Jacksonville that he and the other pitchers hate throwing to May. Hitting-wise, I can't help but notice that in both 2007 and 2008 May was a really hot hitter in April, but just withered at the plate after April. That could mean that May just couldn't stand up to the physical demands of catching longer than a month and it affected his offensive game.

Tony Delmonico is rumored to be a candidate to move behind the plate. We'll see what happens there.

And frankly, I did consider listing A.J. Ellis in the 25 to 32 range. I see no reason why he can't step in right now and be a back-up catcher in the majors, and a major leaguer is a major leaguer even if he is a bench guy. But when you consider that Ellis is 28, and the Dodgers will probably re-sign Ardoin to be Martin's back-up next year, I opted against putting Ellis on my list.

2008-09-02 12:27:12
79.   Lexinthedena
76 As a third baseman, Martin's numbers would surely improve. If Casey Blake does not return, I could see them putting Martin there. Plus you know McCourt would loooove to have Varitek in Dodger blue.
2008-09-02 12:28:06
80.   Ken Noe
74 77 78 Thanks.
2008-09-02 12:30:53
81.   silverwidow
73 Elbert was 91-94 when I saw his debut.
2008-09-02 12:31:29
82.   Sean P

He's been outstanding so far at Ogden, putting up .333/.438/.705/1.143 with 10HR and only 25K in 145PA. He is already 21, however.

2008-09-02 12:32:18
83.   Gagne55
76 But wouldn't moving Martin improve his offensive numbers? One of the problems the Dodgers had early in the season was that their best hitter was a catcher and put him out pretty much every day. He has worn down and is not hitting like he was early in the year.
2008-09-02 12:33:01
84.   CanuckDodger
73 -- According to, Elbert's fastball has averaged 91.9 MPH in the majors so far.
2008-09-02 12:35:57
85.   Gen3Blue
Good stuff Canuck. I had been wondering why X. Paul seems to often be a prospect when Hoffman is not, but now I notice Hoffman is 6 months older (24 in AA) and I seem to remember that Paul is terrifically athletic.
2008-09-02 12:36:11
86.   Sam DC
P Joel Hanrahan is Washington's recipient of the 2008 Roberto Clemente Award, and by extension, he becomes one of the 30 nominees for the league-wide Clemente award, given annually to the major leaguer who "combines outstanding skills on the baseball field with devoted work in the community." Hanrahan this year began a partnership with the American Red Cross and led efforts to raise awareness and funds for disaster relief in Iowa, his home state, which was hit hard by flooding.

2008-09-02 12:37:01
87.   Ken Noe
It's easier to find a decent third baseman than a catcher. I can imagine Martin moving to third someday, perhaps, but hopefully not soon. That said, I do fear McCourt's Red Sox fetish, and wonder where Gammons got this bowl of Boston baked beans.
2008-09-02 12:40:17
88.   LogikReader
Actually, I think Varitek would make a perfectly fine backup catcher. We just don't want him playing every day.
2008-09-02 12:42:20
89.   Gagne55
Martin's career OPS by month:
April- .876
May- .814
June- .825
July- .816
Sept.- .732

I'd figure Martin could put up at least a .876 if playing full time at thirdbase.

2008-09-02 12:43:01
90.   larry slimfast
76 I'm not saying it's the right decision. I just think it will happen and it's not going to be too hard to recover from. Up to me - I just give the guy more rest. If he could produce all year like he has in his past few first halves, he'd be a perfectly acceptable option at 3rd base, although I'd prefer 2nd. He clearly has more value at catcher but he seems to be on the path of Jason Kendall. Just my opinion.
2008-09-02 12:45:14
91.   Terry A
I thought the close to Simers' column today was missing the notification about the "last word" he typically runs in his column, which is usually an e-mail from a reader he hacked off.
2008-09-02 12:46:37
92.   Ken Noe
89 But does it then help to replace him with someone like Varitek (.691)?
2008-09-02 12:46:47
93.   Dodgers49
Frankly, I'm expecting the Dodgers to be a better team in September without Jeff Kent. I expect DeWitt to play better defense. And although the Dodgers would have been better if Kent had been able to continue the hot streak he was on the first couple of weeks of August I was not expecting that to happen.
2008-09-02 12:47:46
94.   Alex41592

USC jumps to #1. UCLA #23.

Regarding Martin. He's our catcher.

2008-09-02 12:49:33
95.   silverwidow
Kershaw is throwing 70% fastballs according to Fangraphs. That is WAY too high.

Billingsley is at 59% for comparison.

2008-09-02 12:50:26
96.   Jon Weisman
I don't think Martin's best month represents what would be his average performance at third base.
2008-09-02 12:50:28
97.   Dodgers49
49 Any new news on Furcal? Is he even going to be able to pinch hit or do anything in September? Is he toast for 2008? I haven't heard anything new about his progress lately.


Dodgers roster expansive all year

>> The middle infield has become the latest crisis with the loss of Kent. Granted, at 40 his defense has been limited, but his bat caught fire the first three weeks of August, only to have his knee to start acting up and his average start going down. If the surgery goes as planned, the hope is that he could return for the last two weeks of the regular season as a pinch-hitter.

The timetable for Furcal is about the same, although after missing four months with a back injury and surgery, there is guarded optimism that he will be able to become at least a part-time starter in the rotation with Nomar Garciaparra and Angel Berroa. <<

2008-09-02 12:50:51
98.   Jon Weisman
Farewell, Jerry Reed

2008-09-02 12:51:25
99.   whodat807
90 Martin at second? I haven't heard that suggested before. Don't we have a pipeline of solid middle infielders in our minors already (Hu/DeWitt/DeJesus)?

I just can't fathom why we'd put Martin at third when it'd be much harder to find a catcher who'd hit better than whoever will play third for us next season opposed to just sitting the guy down once a week, no matter how unhappy that makes him.

2008-09-02 12:54:15
100.   Ken Noe
In a normal world, LA wouldn't trade their best catching prospect and then try to move their All-Star catcher to third. But of course, we will be in Ned World the next few weeks.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-09-02 12:54:54
101.   Jon Weisman
The other issue is, do you think the catcher that you sign in his place will do better than the third baseman you would otherwise have? Martin gets a lot of grief for dropping to the .700 range in OPS each year, but how many catchers manage even reaching that?
2008-09-02 13:00:30
102.   Dodgers49
Batting title bittersweet for Tiffee

>> 51s third baseman leads PCL at .378, but gets no call-up <<

2008-09-02 13:01:07
103.   Eric Stephen
"East bound and down, loaded up and truckin'..."

Who will be the 3rd celebrity death? I'm going with Marla Gibbs.

2008-09-02 13:01:41
104.   kngoworld
Anyone give Google's Chrome browser a try yet. It seems fast and easy. Although, when refreshing this page it takes me to the top of the comment section and not near the last one I read.

Also, it lets you expand the comment box that I just typed in which is cool.

2008-09-02 13:01:43
105.   Lexinthedena
It's agreed that Martin is most valuable as a catcher, but if a hole Opens up at the third Varitek's ballplayerness will hold great appeal to the FO. It is not far fetched to speculate that Martin will be the Dodgers third baseman next year, and 162 games of 800 OPS isn't all that bad.
2008-09-02 13:04:38
106.   Gagne55
The question isn't just what is available at third vs. catcher but also the difference in Martin's performence at catcher vs. third as well as playing time concerns. Also, if Martin's starts are cut back from 145 to a more reasonable 125 his performence will certainly be better, but that also opens up 20 more games for a Bennent/Ardoin type.
2008-09-02 13:04:38
107.   Gagne55
The question isn't just what is available at third vs. catcher but also the difference in Martin's performence at catcher vs. third as well as playing time concerns. Also, if Martin's starts are cut back from 145 to a more reasonable 125 his performence will certainly be better, but that also opens up 20 more games for a Bennent/Ardoin type.
2008-09-02 13:05:52
108.   Gagne55
102 That really makes Loney's .380 not look that great.
2008-09-02 13:06:58
109.   underdog
102 I know he's not a lefty, but poor Tiffee. Sweeney continues to get at bats while Tiffee gets to sit at home. The Dodgers potentially could have a series of guys come from Vegas who would all be more useful than Sweeney: Young (already called up) is first, but Tiffee and Lindsey would seem more useful, too.
2008-09-02 13:07:02
110.   larry slimfast
99 I'm playing devil's advocate here... I'd rest Martin more myself but I think the writing is on the wall. I bet he's playing 3rd next year and it's not that tough to justify. If he maintains and/or develops his power and speed he's a solid option. An .825 OPS is not out of the question and would probably be top 10 in the majors for 3rd basemen.

If he could play 2nd I'd prefer it to 3rd. I don't have a lot of confidence in DeWitt beyond a solid bench player. Hu and DeJesus can fight it out for SS in 2010. DeJesus ain't ready yet. Trade the lesser option when the time is right.

2008-09-02 13:07:20
111.   jujibee
Martin has to stay at catcher. If he did go to third base, I doubt his offensive production would be that much better than what he does at catcher. It is hard to project what he'd do without squatting every other half inning, but I don't think his power is there to flourish just by a position change. I do like Martin a lot, I just don't think he'd be that improved to consider the catching replacement. I feel if we get Sabbathia this offseason and concentrate on more of a strong pitching great defense mentality using Dewitt at 3rd, Hu at SS and Dejesus at 2nd, we'd be better off than trying to plug offensive pieces into our holes and trying to outscore the opponents, rather than hold them in check.
2008-09-02 13:07:32
112.   Dodgers49
May's homer gives Suns win in finale

>> Suns infielder Ivan DeJesus Jr. did not play, finishing the season with a 23-game hit streak, the longest in the league in 2008. DeJesus also finished with a .324 average, the second-best in Jacksonville's Southern League history. Don Slaught hit .335 in 1981. <<

2008-09-02 13:07:51
113.   cargill06
Poor John Lindsey.
2008-09-02 13:09:19
114.   whodat807
106 Yes, but I'd still argue that 120-130 games of Martin, 40 games of Ardoin, and whoever we get for third would be better than 150ish games of Martin at third and a full season of a Varitek-type behind the plate.
2008-09-02 13:09:45
115.   Ken Noe
Sweeney clearly has photos of Ned at that Odd Fellows convention.
2008-09-02 13:10:12
116.   Jon Weisman
This is certainly a stupid question, but how do companies make money off Internet browsers?
2008-09-02 13:10:32
117.   Ember Nickel

Sorry I'm late, but I think this is good karma for the Cubs. Mordecai Brown, anyone? ;)

2008-09-02 13:10:36
118.   kngoworld
I think if Martin had his way he would play catcher, third base, and shortstop at the same time, for 162 games a season.

I want him to remain the Dodger's catcher for many years. He needs to be more personal stats selfish and less iron manish so he realizes he could benefit from extra rest days.

2008-09-02 13:12:36
119.   trainwreck
I hate Jason Varitek. Please no Jason Varitek. He cannot hit at all, it is a complete waste. Martin is so good, because he is a catcher.
2008-09-02 13:12:57
120.   whodat807
I think the onus is on Torre to convince Martin to sit every once in a while, instead of taking his off days at third. That's what a manager has to do - make decisions that may not be to his players' liking but are good for the team.
2008-09-02 13:13:09
121.   arborial
The whole moving Martin thing is ridiculous. I agree with 99 Ardoin needs to just get one start a week, he is not amazing but at least I don't cringe when he comes up like other backup catchers we had this season.

I know Martin has heart and chutzpah and all those other intangibles that make sitting him so hard but someone really needs to tell the kid that sitting once in a while is actually going to help the team in the long run.

2008-09-02 13:13:26
122.   Eric Stephen
2008-09-02 13:14:22
123.   jujibee
116. I bet they get a kick back in exchange for what the browser kicks back as the best hit for a search. They also have a lot of companies, (usually on the sidebars after a search) that offer something for sale based on the search.
2008-09-02 13:14:54
124.   Jon Weisman
122 - Volume of what? Who's paying?
2008-09-02 13:15:44
125.   Jon Weisman
123 - Your response relates to search engines, not browsers, right?

I'm not talking about, I'm talking about Chrome or IE.

2008-09-02 13:16:01
126.   preacherroe
Russell Mitchell? Any ceiling at all as a prospect?
2008-09-02 13:17:53
127.   Eric Stephen
I just wanted to post a flippant response. I was thinking of Phil Hartman saying how Citywide Change Bank made their money.
2008-09-02 13:18:18
128.   jujibee
What are teh chances of Chan Ho being resigned. If this is the case, I say we bring back Krueter and let Park pitch every 5th day with Krueter behind the dish. Maybe Park even gets back to his ace form, much like how he got back to being an effective pitcher upon his Chavez Ravine return. Little bit of sarcasm there, but there is nothing wrong with designating a catcher to catch every fifth day with the same pitcher.
2008-09-02 13:19:52
129.   jujibee
125. Good question then!
2008-09-02 13:21:11
130.   larry slimfast
101 I do think an acceptable catcher can be had for less $$$ than an acceptable 3rd basemen, in 2009 (<-- the big qualifier). That would be smart IF the Dodgers were trying to sign Ramirez. I sense that average offense, slightly above average defense catchers are undervalued right now because of Martin, Soto, McCann, etc. I do think Martin would be an above average 3rd baseman.

98 Jerry Reed is a guitar hero of mine. He invented mountain funk. I never really thought of him as a crooner.

2008-09-02 13:21:16
131.   kngoworld
An internet browser is mostly another tool that gets the companies name out there and more recognition. Although, adding that little search box in the top right corner of the browser brought in a lot of advertising money.
2008-09-02 13:22:50
132.   ToyCannon
Was a bit of a surprise to not see Kensley Jansen on Canucks top 30. He will certainly make my list and at this point is the Dodgers top catching prospect.

I found the BA list on the Dodgers AFL team a bit interesting. They are listing Russel Mitchell as a catcher. He came through the system as a 3rd baseman and was converted to 1st base during the past year. I wonder if this was a BA mistake or if the Dodgers are going to try to convert him. Does anyone have any info on this?

2008-09-02 13:24:09
133.   Xeifrank
Any full-time move of Martin from catcher to 3B, drops Martin's value to the team by a win or a little more just from the move alone. I doubt you make that back in any uptick to his offensive numbers from the move. It's my opinion that such a move can wait a few years and that any plan should've included the good hitting catcher Santana that they just traded this year, instead of an over-priced veteran.
vr, Xei
2008-09-02 13:25:26
134.   Dodgers49
So where is Rick Honeycutt when we need him? :-)

Broxton, Kuo thriving at back of bullpen

>> Broxton blamed a mechanical flaw in which his shoulder was flying open for a tough stretch from Aug. 9-24, over which he compiled a 7.88 ERA in eight appearances, taking three losses and blowing a pair of saves.

Broxton said he has since worked with recently designated pitcher Tanyon Sturtze to correct the flaw, which has allowed him to stay under control in his past three outings.

"Right now, he looks very smooth," Torre said. <<

2008-09-02 13:27:38
135.   larry slimfast
125 Over simplification alert - Open source companies (Mozilla) don't make money, per say. Corporations make money off of their browsers by proxy. I could go deeper here but I think you get the picture.
2008-09-02 13:28:19
136.   silverwidow
Minor Leaguers on 40-Man Roster:

Mario Alvarez
Yhendy Brazoban
Greg Miller
Justin Orenduff
Lucas May
Tony Abreu
Xavier Paul

Some of these players will be outrighted/waived this winter. Alvarez, Brazoban and Orenduff are probably the first guys to go.

2008-09-02 13:29:55
137.   DaveP
135- An example of Mozilla (Firefox browser) making money is the revenue they earn from a partnership with Google.

"Google pays for prominent placement in Firefox, including the default home page and the default choice in the search box.

The deal has been lucrative for the Mozilla Foundation, whose two subsidiaries create Firefox and the Thunderbird email software. In 2006, Google supplied US$56.8 million of Mozilla's revenue: 85 per cent of the total for the foundation."

2008-09-02 13:30:27
138.   Tripon
I don't think Martin would permanently welcome a move to 3rd base. At catcher, he's always going to affect a game, even if he's not hitting as he's catching everyone, is almost never pulled even from extra innings games, and he has the respect of everyone.

Most of all, he's going to make his money at catching. Its easier to make the all-star team as a catcher, its easier to get recognition as a catcher due to the dearth of catching at the major league level. Posada just signed a big deal despite in his decline years, no way the Yankees pay him that much money if he wasn't a catcher. Veritek going to get at least $6 million this off season for somebody just because he's a catcher. Mike Piazza fought the move to first base even after his skills as a catcher dissipated because he knew the value he had as a catcher. Martin isn't going to be worth as much as a 3rd baseman, and Martin and his agent knows this. It'll be costing Martin millions to switch from catcher to 3rd base, if you're Martin would you do that move for the sake of the team? I wouldn't, because I know that its costing me money to do it, and I'm not even sure it'll help the team.

2008-09-02 13:32:24
139.   trainwreck
Jim Rome ripped UCLA football for days and now is not even talking about them.

What a Kent.

2008-09-02 13:35:02
140.   Tripon
128 Chad Kreuter is the current USC baseball coach. That job is cushy as heck!
2008-09-02 13:37:59
141.   MC Safety
139 What a Kent


2008-09-02 13:38:23
142.   surfing slug
81 and 84


2008-09-02 13:45:32
143.   KG16
116 - i don't think they do. IE and Safari are bundled, so one could argue that they make something off of it when they sell machines and/or operating systems. Chrome and Firefox, I'm not entirely sure how they make money for their respective designers, other than what Dave says in 137 .
2008-09-02 13:45:43
144.   larry slimfast
Gmail just told me they found the Titanic 23 years ago today. Jay Johnstone responded with a GWRBI in the 11th off Jeff Reardon.
2008-09-02 13:53:36
145.   Marty
Volume is always my stock answer for "How do they do that?"
2008-09-02 13:54:38
146.   ToyCannon
Interesting how Mario Alvarez was panned by everyone who covers the Dodger system as being a crazy move when they put him on the 40 man, and 9 months later it looks like they were dead on while those who work for the Dodgers and make these decisions based on the best information were wrong.
2008-09-02 13:57:31
147.   Harold M Johnson
IE does not "make money" but it does direct you to MSN properties and search as the defaults for home pages and search results.

Firefox makes almost all its money from the search box in the upper right corner, which is set to Google as the default option. They give a % of every ad click you make to the creators of Firefox.

2008-09-02 13:59:37
148.   OaklandAs
116 One reason Google wants to make a browser is that they aren't always happy with the way that IE/Firefox/Safari work with their applications like Gmail and Google Maps. So instead of being restricted by the limitations of IE, they decided to make their own browser. So the browser doesn't directly make money for Google, but it could increase the use of Google's other applications.
2008-09-02 14:01:32
149.   Jon Weisman
Thanks for all those answers.
2008-09-02 14:24:42
150.   fordprefect
104 &c.

Apart from the financial/marketing angle here, what's to be the OS of choice, if any? MS? Linux? interoperable?


Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-09-02 14:28:21
151.   fordprefect
Oh, nevermind....

This is just the beginning -- Google Chrome is far from done. We're releasing this beta for Windows to start the broader discussion and hear from you as quickly as possible. We're hard at work building versions for Mac and Linux too, and will continue to make it even faster and more robust.

from google blog...

2008-09-02 14:33:30
152.   Terry A
Am I the only one who read the Google Chrome comic book? Surely Daniel and Shimmin read it.
2008-09-02 14:34:45
153.   Rob M
So I guess Preston Mattingly is officially a wasted 1st round pick. I was pulling for him to figure it out this year.
2008-09-02 14:36:16
154.   underdog
I still prefer Firefox for both Windows and Mac, although the latest version of FF for the Mac at least has been rather buggy/crashy, alas. Safari seems more stable but I don't like the interface as much as FF. I sometimes use IE for work, too, and it's definitely improved but I still don't like it much.
2008-09-02 14:36:57
155.   cargill06
28 What type of defensive player does Paul project to be?
2008-09-02 14:37:13
156.   natepurcell

He does seem like one of White's bigger busts...

2008-09-02 14:38:30
157.   underdog
153 Seems too early to call it "officially" yet, though he's certainly disappointed. Here's a new story on the Loons and Mattingly:

The Loons ended their second season Monday, putting the finishing touches on another disappointing season.

Great Lakes capped a 54-85 season with a 3-0 win over Fort Wayne in front of its 10th consecutive sellout of 5,323 fans at Dow Diamond.

Mattingly was there ... kind of.

Mattingly, a Los Angeles Dodgers' first-round pick in 2006, has not played since July 31. He was put on the disabled list with back pain and has never returned to the lineup.

"It's frustrating ... very frustrating," Mattingly said. "I want to play. I need to play. I know I can play."

"First, I have to get healthy," Mattingly said. "I have scoliosis, so my back is not aligned right. I've been working hard on core strength training. Earlier in the season I had hamstring problems, which might be related to my back problems.

"I plan on playing in instructional league in Arizona if I'm healthy. If not, I'm going to rehab in Arizona. I'm also going to work with my dad (Dodgers hitting coach Don Mattingly."

2008-09-02 14:42:02
158.   kinbote
I'm often [always?] wrong, but I think any talk about Martin to 3b is premature. He might move there in time, but for now his position is secure. I happen to think Delmonico will be our best catching prospect by this time next year. Canuck's assessment of Lucas May is troubling but true.

Personally, I'm looking forward to DeJesus being our opening day SS & leadoff hitter in 2010. A one year deal for Furcal should please both sides.

2008-09-02 14:42:54
159.   Tripon
157 Don Mattingly was put on an AFL roster? I don't remember seeing his name.
2008-09-02 14:46:07
160.   regfairfield
Martin to third would be organizational suicide. Turning a great player into an average player so you can bring in another average player is an incredibly harmful thing to do.
2008-09-02 14:50:04
161.   Tripon
I don't see why Torre would do that to Martin. Martin has veteran status in Torre eyes, this is the same man who gave at bats to Tony Womack at DH. He isn't the sort of guy who would spurn a guy's loyalty like this.

And its odd that Gammons writes an article that Martin is leading the wave of converting infielders to catching prospects and then report that Martin himself is being converted back to 3rd base.

2008-09-02 14:51:04
162.   jujibee
Ned Coletti said in a post Santana trade that his defense was suspect behind the plate and the Indians would have to move him to the Outfield or 1st. Being that we haveLoney and Ethier/Lambo, the Dodgers felt he was expendable. So if he were still in this organization, which I wish he were, he'd most likely be trying to learn the outfield and not be considered anything more than a 3rd string only in extreme emergencies catcher on the big league club, should his outfiled/1st base play get him to the bigs.
2008-09-02 14:52:21
163.   ToyCannon
I'm holding off marking him as a bust, the Loon park/league leave me leery of inadequate offensive production. Lambo barely squeezed an OPS > 800 and was like a tiger unleashed when he hit AA. Carlos Santana had a less then 700 OPS in 2007 and we know what he did when unleashed from the Loons.

Only 5 players 21 and younger were able to post an OPS > 800 in the league.

Not saying Preston has not been a huge disappointment but I'd like to see him in a different league. The only LOON who has really whomped on the MidWest League pitching was Thomas Giles in 2007(950 OPS/23 years old) but then he couldn't hit AA and did just okay in the Cal League.

2008-09-02 14:58:13
164.   CanuckDodger
155 -- Paul can play all three outfield positions, but some would say he can't play any of them well. He's a bit like Kemp: he doesn't have the best instincts, can take bad routes to fly balls, but he has some speed to cover ground. He also has a strong, accurate arm. Regfairfield will be happy to point out that defensive metrics said Paul was the worst centerfielder in the minors in 2007. However, before this season, I read our farm director DeJon Watson insist that Paul can play centerfield. Since Paul projects as a 4th outfielder rather than a regular anyway, or at best maybe a platoon player against RHP's, it may not matter much if Paul is a defensive whiz.
2008-09-02 14:59:19
165.   regfairfield
163 Inland Empire was the third biggest pitchers park in the minors last year, beating out classic run killers Tacoma and Norfolk. It's more forgiving over the last three years (.95) but I wonder if something changed in 2007.

2008-09-02 14:59:43
166.   ToyCannon
The instructional league is separate from the AFL.

You expected Ned to say he just traded one of the best catchers in the minor leagues? He was spinning. Take a look at what Pablo Sandoval is doing for the Giants. Both Santana and Sandoval destroyed the Cal League. Sandoval is now the starting catcher for the Giants and part of their future, Santana was traded. Of all of Ned's deals this one will come back to haunt him more then any of the other deals. Sure he's raw behind the plate, this was only his 2nd year as a catcher. What he does have you can't teach and that is a gun for an arm, and plate discipline.

2008-09-02 15:02:13
167.   kinbote
162 Colletti hasn't really proven to be a whiz at player evaluation, so I wouldn't take his comments too seriously. Minor league players tend to stay at their optimal positions until they prove they are unable to. It's too soon to tell with Santana. Sadly, it's not our problem anymore.
2008-09-02 15:05:03
168.   ToyCannon
Wow, looking forward to the 2008 numbers.
2008-09-02 15:05:36
169.   Tripon
166 Didn't the Giants draft Buster Posey?
2008-09-02 15:07:45
170.   ToyCannon
Sure, you don't draft in the 1st round based on what you have, you take the best player available.
2008-09-02 15:07:55
171.   bhsportsguy
167 I would say Colletti says what the organization's opinion is on a certain player.
2008-09-02 15:08:17
172.   dsfan
DeJesus should a solid 2B for the Dodgers, maybe better. A bit of a reach at SS.
2008-09-02 15:09:39
173.   scareduck
150 - I'm sure the stock answer from Google would be Windows, Mac, and Linux, which is roughly the three supported by Firefox.

I personally wouldn't trust Google to do anything that wouldn't rat you out to them. They have too much at stake for them not to try something like that, and AFAIK they aren't releasing the source code.

2008-09-02 15:09:46
174.   jujibee
166, 167. I metioned that I wish he were still in this organization. I was simply letting you know what Ned said post Santana trade in a radio interview. He may have been spinning, he may very well believe what he was saying, and who knows, maybe he could be right? It seemed like a lot of people here were annointing him the second coming of Martin and I thought I'd throw the Ned interview out there for a different perspective, not that he had me sold by any stretch of the imagination. I rather believe the likes of Jim Callis on his value, and when he compares Santana to LaPorta who netted Sabathia for the Brewers, that alone tells me we got hosed.
2008-09-02 15:11:28
175.   bhsportsguy
162 He also said that both Santana and Meloan were good players who will be in the major leagues.
2008-09-02 15:12:49
176.   Tripon
anthony allentown,pa: DO you believe that LA is better off without Jeff Kent for the stretch run since the younger players never seemed to get on the same page with him in the clubhouse?

SportsNation Joe Morgan: No, they need to score runs. Attitude-wise, you're right, because he never was one to embrace the young players on the Dodgers, but I don't think they're better off without him. It may be a more cohesive unit, but he drives in runs and is a tough out in that lineup.

Wonder if Joe Morgan actually looked at his traditional stats this year (BA/HR/RBIs) before he said this. They're all at career lows for Kent. I don't care if DeWitt doesn't score an RBI for the rest of the year(okay, I care a little) but his defensive value makes him my preferred option for the rest of Sept.

2008-09-02 15:13:43
177.   ToyCannon
I would say that Ned says what he wants you to hear and it has nothing to do with reality. There is nothing to gain from being honest when information is to important to just give away freely.

Ned sold Santana to save his butt because we needed a 3rd baseman and McCourt would not increase the payroll because of the deadwood contracts sitting on the DL. He then spun it that Carlos will probably not stay as a catcher. Other scouts beg to differ. I'll take the non - affiliated scouts opinion over someone trying to save his job.

2008-09-02 15:14:41
178.   whodat807
Apparently, today is the four year anniversary of Frank Robinson's epic 44 second staredown of a homeplate umpire after a call Robinson took exception to. One of many reasons why I loved Frank Robinson. Anybody know where I can find a video of that online?
2008-09-02 15:18:00
179.   Icaros

I think Bob has a continuous loop of that clip as the centerpiece to the Frank Robinson shrine in his living room.

2008-09-02 15:18:59
180.   Tripon
Ned's background in PR, and ToyCannon's right, Ned will spin anything to put a positive light on the situation and on himself. If you notice that in any Dodgers press release that quotes Ned about a player like JP, or Casey Blake, he won't mention specific skills that help the team, but how he's a 'gamer', a 'grinder' or a 'game changer'. He even called JP a great person when the Dodgers signed him, but mentioned nothing about why he got a 2nd leadoff hitter when we needed a power bat at the time to replace J.D. Drew.

Part of that is seems to be that Ned never learned how to valuate players personally by a scouts perceptive and he doesn't rely on sabermetics, so why does his PR skills make him a worthy candidate to be a GM? His skills are more suited for the marketing side of the game.

2008-09-02 15:21:20
181.   underdog
176 Your expectations that Morgan should have checked the stats before commenting on Kent seems to neglect one critical piece of information:

It's Joe Morgan.

Expectations should run very low for JoeChat's to include any connection to real stats or modern reasoning.

2008-09-02 15:21:22
182.   cargill06
176 DeWitt is a -2 in 30 innings at 2B


2008-09-02 15:22:44
183.   regfairfield
182 Defensive stats don't mean anything in small sample sizes.
2008-09-02 15:22:59
184.   Daniel Zappala
152 Definitely read it!
2008-09-02 15:24:16
185.   trainwreck
Doubt it, MLB pulls videos off the net like no other.
2008-09-02 15:24:21
186.   cargill06
183 I know.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

2008-09-02 15:25:24
187.   regfairfield
186 Ah, had no idea what that meant.
2008-09-02 15:25:28
188.   jujibee
180. I hope McCourt finally sees this as well. If Ned did have a value, I don't know where it would be, but I can defiinately say it is not at GM. The Navarro trade makes me ill, and for how taken he got for Blake can only mean he thinks premium catching prospects are expendable because of Martin.
2008-09-02 15:25:46
189.   Tripon
181 Morgan said that Adam Dunn is a good player for the D'Backs because he hits homers, and gets on base all the time a couple of weeks back.
2008-09-02 15:28:33
190.   fracule
166 You can't teach plate discipline?
2008-09-02 15:31:56
191.   cargill06
189 Followed by the gem that the D'Backs will probably not run away with the divison because they strike out too much.
2008-09-02 15:35:37
192.   Tripon
191 To be fair to Joe Morgan, Vin Scully isn't impressed with the D'backs that they strike out too much either.
2008-09-02 15:38:06
193.   JMK
I tend to think players have a certain level of innate ability for hitting and that the quality and quantity of coaching doesn't matter as much as whether a player has some "natural" hitting skills. But I'm wondering if fielding is a lot different than hitting. It seems to me awful early to decide that guys like May or Santana will never develop their fielding skills. Playing time and a little coaching may go a long way toward developing bad fielding players into at least decent ones. I think Blake DeWitt may be an example. I think I heard that when he was tried at second base previously that he was not very good there. And I guess he may have looked bad out there, but can you make an assessment based on the first year a guy's trying to learn a new position? Santana and May are so young can scouts really tell that they'll never develop into good receivers?
2008-09-02 15:40:20
194.   Icaros

To be fair to Vin, he never declared war on a book he never read because it was "about a computer."

2008-09-02 15:42:06
195.   Tripon
194 To be fair to computers, Hal 9000 was a jerk.
2008-09-02 15:43:10
196.   Tripon
John Kurk keeps on hearing OPS on Sportscenter. Looks like his mullet is exploding.
2008-09-02 15:43:12
197.   larry slimfast
Joe Morgan tries to make a perfect argument out of everything. He rarely tries to see both sides of an issue, his previous statements about anything else be darned.

There are no perfect arguments, only degrees of acceptance.

It's a problem in this country. The art of debate is gone. Debate class should be mandatory in jr. high and high school.

and Joe Morgan should be forced to argue with himself over everything he says until he learns that he doesn't always have to be right.

2008-09-02 15:48:50
198.   Bob Timmermann
RIP Jerry Reed

When he's hot, he's hot, but now he's not.

2008-09-02 15:50:14
199.   cargill06
He also thinks the because K-Rod is so skillful at making sure his team is up by 3 runs or less in the 9th more than any other relief pitcher he should win the Cy Young.
2008-09-02 15:51:27
200.   Penguin
As a long time fan of Todd Rundgren, I got a kick out of the article on about his son Rex playing SS at Las Vegas. We'll never see him with the Dodgers, but there are worse things than playing in the minor leagues. I don't want to work, i just want to play baseball all day.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-09-02 15:52:41
201.   trainwreck
Plus he has ridiculous celebrations and other ridiculous actions I won't get into.
2008-09-02 15:55:55
202.   68elcamino427
Russell Martin the All-Star Catcher.

The catcher's first job is to take care of the pitcher. The Dodgers have great pitching and the staff currently ranks near the top of the National League. Martin is doing a great job, Great Job.

Want Martin's offense to be more consistent?
Lock him up in a hotel room on games before or after an off day.

The argument that Martin would greatly diminish his future earning power by moving from catcher to another position is spot on.

Just say'in

2008-09-02 15:56:13
203.   KG16
192 - strikeouts are a funny, funny thing. But I'm going to do my best to stay away from that can o' worms.
2008-09-02 15:57:10
204.   LogikReader
This is all beside the point. K-Rod has no shot at a Cy Young to start with. How can it go to anyone besides Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay? Ok maybe Duchscherer..
2008-09-02 16:01:14
205.   KG16
204 - if he sets the record for saves, he's going to get a lot of votes, especially since the Angels have run away with their division and are vying for the best record in the league. but looking at the numbers (WHIP, ERA+, K:BB, etc) Lee and Halladay are having a better season.
2008-09-02 16:02:37
206.   regfairfield
Gagne won a Cy Young despite being 4th in VORP on his own team.
2008-09-02 16:04:40
207.   Icaros

But he had a really dirty cap!

2008-09-02 16:08:39
208.   Tripon
And steroids. Don't think the writers are going to be fooled again by a reliever for a Cy Young. That ship has sailed.
2008-09-02 16:18:30
209.   Icaros

He was not the first reliever to win a CY. Doubt he'll be the last.

2008-09-02 16:18:39
210.   D4P
And funny looking goggles!
2008-09-02 16:19:49
211.   ToyCannon
Still think Russ should have locked himself into some security. Let us buy out his arb years, make some serious coin for security, and then either sign an extension or hit free agency. Not playing with a long term deal is playing with fire. It is great to be cocky, but all it takes is one serious concussion, one home plate collision, one slide home with his bare hand, one ally oop into a dugout, one severe twisted ankle, one fastball to the face, hand, knee, one line drive off the noggin while being the runner on 3rd base, or one stupid pile on where his shoulder is ruined to deflate his worth.
2008-09-02 16:21:10
212.   Snake in Philly
Kudos to Koyie Hill...unbelievable.

Canuck, thanks for the list and I do agree that the 2nd half looks a little sparse. One question...(a couple) years ago, I remember reading your lists on a different Dodgers board. This was in the heady days just preceding the great Suns team and you had a group of guys that you called "The Canuck Five". This was a list of guys that I think that you wanted protgected at all costs...I think that Loney and Martin were on the list :-) and also Miller and E-Jax :-(. Do you remember the exact makeup of that list?

2008-09-02 16:24:58
213.   ToyCannon
I think when Mike Marshall won the Cy Young back in 74 it was a good thing but it opened the door to many bad things.
I so hate saves as a statistic. Crappy pitchers like Borowski pile them up. Let us give points out based on how the save was accomplished. One run lead, two run lead, or three run lead, how are all these treated equally. It is absurd.
2008-09-02 16:26:13
214.   Tripon
You should never trade a player when his value is decreased. Cano, at the moment, is a second baseman hitting .268 with a .304 OBP and a tendency to take plays off in the field. What do you think you're getting for him? It's not Casey Kotchman.

The Braves would so trade Kotchman for Cano right now. What the heck did the Angels know that Kotchman was going to disappoint so badly with the Braves?

2008-09-02 16:26:59
215.   LogikReader
Isn't it true that a save qualifies as long as the tying run is on the on deck circle?

That means the team could be up by 5 runs with the bases loaded and the RP can get a save!!

2008-09-02 16:27:20
216.   whodat807
If CC Sabathia goes 5-0 in September, finishes 14-0 with the Brewers, and maintains his 1.43 ERA in the NL, should he win the Cy Young?
2008-09-02 16:28:33
217.   D4P
One run lead, two run lead, or three run lead, how are all these treated equally. It is absurd

You know, come to think of it, why does the Save stat have a criterion relating to the number of runs the pitcher can give up, but the Win stat doesn't?

Not that I think either stat is worth anything. They should both be eliminated, but still: if you're gonna have a runs allowed criterion for one of the stats, it seems like you should have a runs scored criterion for the other one as well.

2008-09-02 16:29:47
218.   Tripon
Slippery slope argument.
2008-09-02 16:32:19
219.   arborial
216 yes and I believe they should present the trophy to him by firing it out of an air cannon.

He will then catch the trophy barehanded and calmly throw it on his mantle.

2008-09-02 16:33:06
220.   CanuckDodger
212 -- Ah, the seemingly legendary "Canuck Five," which preceded the Jacksonville Five by a couple of years (2003). They were Miller, Jackson, Loney, Gutierrez, and Hanrahan.
2008-09-02 16:33:18
221.   D4P
And another thing: if you're gonna have a runs allowed criterion for one one of the Wins and Saves stats, shouldn't it be the stat that's generally considered "better" (i.e. the Win stat)?
2008-09-02 16:33:49
222.   Kevin Lewis

If all of that happens, than I would lean that way.

2008-09-02 16:38:45
223.   silverwidow
Lincecum is the Cy Young.
2008-09-02 16:41:24
224.   Kevin Lewis

If 216 does not play out, than I would vote for Tim

2008-09-02 16:43:24
225.   whodat807
223 224 I think it's a two man race between Lincecum and CC. I was leaning towards Lincecum, but it's astonished me that CC has had almost no non-sensational starts for the Brewers so far.
2008-09-02 16:45:22
226.   Kevin Lewis
I am still amazed/saddened that CC couldn't get a win against Boston in the Postseason
2008-09-02 16:46:20
227.   ToyCannon
Rick Sutcliffe winning the 1984 Cy Young is plenty of precedent for CC to win this year. As great as Lincecum has been, I'd vote for CC if he continues to tear it up.
2008-09-02 16:47:53
228.   Jon Weisman


Giles, RF
Rodriguez, SS
Kouzmanoff, 3B
A, Gonzalez, 1B
Headley, LF
Ambres, CF
Hundley, C
Antonelli, 2B
Baek, P


Pierre, CF
Ethier, RF
Ramirez, LF
Loney, 1B
Martin, C
Blake, 3B
DeWitt, 2B
Berroa, SS
Kershaw, P

2008-09-02 16:49:09
229.   ToyCannon
Who would be your Canuck 5 right now?

I don't see anyone who would be untouchable.

2008-09-02 16:49:15
230.   Tripon
no kemp?
2008-09-02 16:50:43
231.   whodat807
Probably a pipe dream, but I wish Hu would be given a second chance at short instead of Berroa.
2008-09-02 16:51:20
232.   ToyCannon
I remember thinking we'd have a heck of a big three in Miller/Jackson/Hanrahan. Instead we got zippo.
2008-09-02 16:51:26
233.   SG6
211 - or a run in with a table saw.
2008-09-02 16:52:29
234.   ToyCannon
I have this feeling that Hu will never be given another chance. I have to be wrong but if you can't displace Angel Berroa, who are you going to play in front of?
2008-09-02 16:55:10
235.   Tripon
232 We'd be complaining that Miller/Jackson/Hanrahan were blocking Bills/Kershaw/Elbert/McDonald.
2008-09-02 16:55:54
236.   Jon Weisman
The last time Kemp didn't start was June 30, the Jason Repko game.

234 - You mean this year or ever?

2008-09-02 16:55:55
237.   underdog
Hu will be given another chance. And I agree, I'd like to see him start soon, if not tonight. But I think it's a simple case of Berroa playing fairly well these days, and contributing on offense over past week or so. He doesn't seem like the hottest of hands to ride, but I am pretty sure that's what it is and not that Hu won't get a shot. Otherwise they could've traded him during the trade flurry a month ago, but sounded like they definitely wanted to keep him.
2008-09-02 16:56:06
238.   D4P
Berroa is playing because we need his veteranybeentherebeforeness down the stretch.

And I'm not trying to be funny.

2008-09-02 16:56:40
239.   ToyCannon
Andy goes deep
2008-09-02 16:57:12
240.   Alex41592
228 - Assuming Kemp is not sick or whatever. It'll be his last off day until the Dodgers are done.
2008-09-02 16:58:40
241.   underdog
Btw, doesn't look like anyone other than Berroa and Blake have faced Baek before, but Casey Blake is 5 for 17 vs him with 2 doubles and a HR.
2008-09-02 16:59:56
242.   CanuckDodger
229 -- "Untouchable" is a tricky word. DePo used to use it a lot, as in "Nobody's untouchable." In the strictest sense, it's true: depending on what you get back, everybody should be available if the bounty you get back is high enough. But I think it is useful to restrict the word to situations where we are talking about other teams' players "reasonably available" for our players. So no "Sure, Elbert is available for David Wright." That understood, I am not okay with trading Elbert, Lambo, DeJesus, or McDonald for what is reasonably obtainable for them. Thus, they are all "untouchable" as far as I am concerned.
2008-09-02 17:00:32
243.   68elcamino427
Re: Lineup

Go'in to the game tonight and my favorite player is sitt'in in favor of you know who.

It will be fun to see Kershaw going for another win.

2008-09-02 17:01:25
244.   trainwreck
I take it you heard the news about Randy?
2008-09-02 17:01:44
245.   Alex41592
239 - A nice hanging curveball that didn't break from Harang. Terrible pitch and Andy took him deep.
2008-09-02 17:02:21
246.   Jon Weisman
2008-09-02 17:02:49
247.   whodat807
This conversation has probably passed me by, but I'm liking Google Chrome.. it's got a nice interface and seems to run faster and smoother than Firefox.

I'm glad Kemp is getting a bit of rest, considering Ethier'll be out for a few days when his kid arrives.

2008-09-02 17:03:42
248.   D4P
Yeah. Returning to the UFC probably means he won't face Fedor. It will be interesting to see how Lesnar fares against "The Natural".
2008-09-02 17:05:11
249.   trainwreck
In his contract it says UFC has to do all they can to get Fedor to fight him.
2008-09-02 17:07:03
250.   D4P
I wonder if that means giving Fedor whatever he wants.

I also wonder if Fedor's contract with Affliction lets him right in other organizations. I'm guessing it does.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-09-02 17:08:38
251.   trainwreck
White said he won't cross-promote with Affliction and he will just try to work out a deal with Fedor or wait till he is a free agent again.
2008-09-02 17:12:08
252.   D4P
That just makes it sound like the fight won't happen. I wonder how long it is until Fedor's a free agent. Randy's getting pretty old.
2008-09-02 17:14:30
253.   trainwreck
Well Fedor wants to fight Randy badly too, so that is a good sign. I would not be surprised to see his agents get him out of Affliction deal, but I think he signed for three more fights.
2008-09-02 17:17:38
254.   D4P
Maybe he could keep his Affliction deal and sign a 1-fight deal with the UFC.

But knowing Dana, he probably wouldn't go for that. But maybe Randy's contract says he'd have to go along.

2008-09-02 17:20:08
255.   trainwreck
Only issue I see is if Randy loses before he gets to face Fedor, then some of the luster is lost.
2008-09-02 17:23:16
256.   D4P
I thought about that too. The other thing is that the winner of Randy-Lesnar is supposed to fight the winner of Big Nog-Mir. So, if Randy loses, some of the luster is gone from his Fedor fight. If Randy wins, then he'd have to wait until after the other fight to fight Fedor, which pushes it back even farther. Plus, he could lose that second fight.

On a related note, it'd be pretty stupid if a Lesnar-Mir rematch decides the UFC heavyweight champion.

2008-09-02 17:31:06
257.   trainwreck
The entire upcoming season of TUF with Nog vs Mir means so much less now already. I think this was all done, because they lacked main events for the next couple of months.

Hence, how you get a Bisping vs Leben main event.

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