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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Charting Jonathan Broxton
2008-09-03 21:52
by Jon Weisman

Jonathan Broxton, ninth inning, Dodgers leading 6-4:

vs. Luis Rodriguez (S)
0-0 96 fastball called strike
0-1 97 fastball called strike, upper-right corner of the zone
0-2 98 fastball, chest-high, fouled back
0-2 95 fastball high, off Russell Martin's glove to the backstop
1-2 97 fastball, fly out to left field

vs. Kevin Kouzmanoff (R)
0-0 97 fastball, broken-bat slow grounder to third base, close play but out 5-3

vs. Adrian Gonzalez (L)
0-0 96 fastball inside
1-0 96 fastball outside
2-0 96 fastball high
3-0 96 fastball called strike
3-1 96 fastball grounded to Blake DeWitt's right, double-clutch but out 4-3

11 pitches: seven strikes, four balls

As Angel Berroa makes a late bid to become a latter-day Marlon Anderson, the Dodgers reach .500 (70-70). Manny Ramirez translated for Berroa in the FSN postgame interview ... until Berroa revealed at the end that he knew English all along. It was very funny.

Update: On the way to Andre Ethier's house, the stork paid a visit to Chan Ho Park and his wife, reports Dylan Hernandez of the Times. Congrats!

Update 2: Ramirez-Berroa video, via The Trolley Dodger: Manny translates Dodgers win

Comments (465)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-09-03 22:09:01
1.   LogikReader
That was the funniest post-game interview I've heard in a long time. Boy is Manny enjoying L.A. or what? That was awesome!
2008-09-03 22:09:27
2.   underdog
Darn, I wish I'd caught the Manny-Berroa interview.

So, where does your charting reflect Broxton's "Want It Mentality"? ;-)

2008-09-03 22:10:57
3.   KG16
d'oh LAT'd, but still: sweet, debut of Sons of Anarchy.
2008-09-03 22:12:53
4.   Tripon
Steve Lyons implies that Blake DeWitt's a better player now over Jeff Kent.
2008-09-03 22:14:01
5.   KG16
4 - some of us would have implied that in May.
2008-09-03 22:14:50
6.   Jon Weisman
Congrats to Scott Elbert for his first career hold!
2008-09-03 22:15:36
7.   Xeifrank
Dodgers magic number is now 25. This weekends series will chop a minimum 4 off of either the Dodgers or DBacks magic number.
vr, Xei
2008-09-03 22:16:16
8.   Tripon
6 What's officially an 'hold' an out that ends an inning?
2008-09-03 22:16:46
9.   whodat807
That was a great game - so many great moments! These Dodgers sure know how to play my heartstrings - one week ago, I was bitter, angry, flabbergasted, and this week, I'm back to believing. I hope someone puts that Manny/Berroa interview up on the internet.
2008-09-03 22:18:18
10.   Linkmeister
That post-game interview was a hoot. I kept saying "Berroa was rookie of the year a while back, I'm sure he speaks some English." Then he slips.

Funny funny stuff.

2008-09-03 22:21:04
11.   Tripon
Rafael Furcal was paid a visit in Arizona by trainer Stan Conte, who oversaw the shortstop run the bases for the first time. Furcal will return to Southern California over the weekend to be seen by his back surgeon.

2008-09-03 22:22:31
12.   Bob Timmermann
Presently on Yahoo's scoreboard page for MLB, Oakland and Kansas City are scheduled to play three games tomorrow.
2008-09-03 22:23:13
13.   ryu
Would've loved to watch that interview with Berroa and Manny. Hilarious!
2008-09-03 22:23:54
14.   Bob Timmermann
There are two definitions of a hold, but I believe the one that has become more widely accepted is that a pitcher enters a game in a save situation, records one out, and then is removed before the game ends and is ineligible for the save.
2008-09-03 22:25:09
15.   Gagne55
12 Triple header? really?
2008-09-03 22:27:16
16.   Alex41592
I watch the game on DVR and miss a new DT member. Halfway through the comments I was expecting deleted posts but it never happened. Needless to say that was quite the moment when it all came together. And I missed instant replay in Tampa!

What a wild and crazy game that was tonight. The stage is set for the D'Backs and Dodgers.

2008-09-03 22:27:22
17.   Bob Timmermann
Just a coding error.
2008-09-03 22:31:22
18.   Tripon
The Dodgers and Philadelphia Phillies have expressed interest in second baseman Tadahito Iguchi, according to his agent, Rocky Hall. Iguchi was released by the San Diego Padres this week.,0,5439326.story

Backup, or trying to replace DeWitt at 2nd?

2008-09-03 22:33:00
19.   trainwreck
Platoon maybe.
2008-09-03 22:35:57
20.   Tripon
19 Would he be an offensive upgrade over DeWitt? Can't see Iguchi be an defensive upgrade.
2008-09-03 22:37:31
21.   trainwreck
I don't think so, but I have no say.
2008-09-03 22:37:59
22.   Jon Weisman
Congrats to Chan Ho Park - a daddy for the second time!
2008-09-03 22:39:16
23.   Alex41592
18 - Don't mess with anything right now.
2008-09-03 22:40:49
24.   trainwreck
Congrats, Chan-Ho and family.
2008-09-03 22:43:39
25.   whodat807
Good for Chan Ho! He pitched in the first Dodger game I ever watched with serious interest, was my favorite pitcher for several years, and gave me and my father many many white hairs. I'll always have a soft spot for him.
2008-09-03 22:44:33
26.   Tripon
Rosters should just be expanded to 40 all year long.
2008-09-03 22:50:24
27.   Bob Timmermann
So I guess Tony La Russa posts here under a pseudonym.
2008-09-03 22:59:31
28.   Tripon
The friday game vs the D'backs are on ESPN nationally.
2008-09-03 23:06:09
29.   Alex41592
28 - Also, it's a weird 7:05 start on a Friday night. Not the normal 7:40 start.
2008-09-03 23:07:17
30.   Tripon
Torre talking about Ethier:

"I think it's easier with him," emphasized Torre. "Once you start talking about it, it's an on-going thing. And your questions are certainly warranted, because a guy with his ability sits on the bench, you want to ask him how he feel about it. He's always said the right thing. And I appreciate it. It does make my job easier."

2008-09-03 23:12:42
31.   The Trolley Dodger
Manny and Angel interview video:

2008-09-03 23:13:11
32.   silverwidow
Haren vs. Lowe
Webb vs. Billingsley
Johnson vs. Kershaw

This is on "probable pitchers."

I am pleasantly surprised about Sunday (thought it'd be Maddux).

2008-09-03 23:18:36
33.   Tripon
31 I noticed that more of Manny's hair was covering his uniform. The return of hairgate?
2008-09-03 23:21:50
34.   bhsportsguy
32 Looks you guys and gals had some fun on the game thread. If the Dodgers pitch Kuroda on regular rest, they can keep both Lowe and Maddux away from Coors.
2008-09-03 23:25:39
35.   LogikReader
I took "I Love LA's" advice and created my own blog. :)

It has nothing to do with baseball, however :\


Trolley Dodger, thank you so much for posting that interview so quickly!!

2008-09-03 23:26:07
36.   silverwidow
34 Maddux is probably for Monday @ SD.
2008-09-03 23:26:39
37.   silverwidow
36 *probable
2008-09-03 23:27:24
38.   Alex41592
32 - Interesting. I wonder if that's just a mistake. They've been promoting Johnson/Maddux all night.
2008-09-03 23:33:11
39.   Jacob Burch
34 Thanks Again for the Game and Company. Was a pretty great W, and I'll remember the Angel shot for a while.

Another Win for the internet scorecard. Hoping for the book by the end of this week or early next week, and to wear it in the next homestand or at spring training.

BH has now posted more from my iPhone than me. His double post takes over the one time I was able to post without crashing it. The Toaster's Session Management acts as a fork for the phone, for some reason.

2008-09-03 23:36:46
40.   silverwidow
I emailed Tony Jackson to see if he can confirm Sunday's starter.
2008-09-03 23:37:47
41.   Kilgore Trout
Does Broxton have any pitches besides a fastball?

Surely when he faces the top hitters in the league he can't expect to just blow the ball by them.

2008-09-03 23:38:38
42.   Tripon
Michael (LA): Is Andrew Lambo a top 50 prospect?

Kevin Goldstein: Absolutely not.

Please send all your hate mail to Kevin Goldstein at

2008-09-03 23:41:26
43.   Alex41592
L.A Times:

Until next week, the Dodgers won't have to glance up at the scoreboard or scream at the clubhouse television, as they did Wednesday while watching the Diamondbacks' come-from-behind victory over the St. Louis Cardinals.

"No!" Russell Martin shouted as Stephen Drew drove a ball to center field to lead off the bottom of the ninth with the Diamondbacks trailing, 3-2.

"Get him!" Berroa called as Drew slid into third base safely.,0,7918240.story

2008-09-03 23:45:09
44.   silverwidow
Does Broxton have any pitches besides a fastball?

Yes, slider.

2008-09-03 23:47:28
45.   Tripon

Frank Coonelly chats. He says that Pedro Alverez is going to be a Pirate no matter what.

2008-09-03 23:49:06
46.   Tripon
WieterLess: Was Andy LaRoche's jogging incident addressed? Is that acceptable behavior from a guy who just came over?

Coonelly: Yes, LaRoche's inability to run out the ball the other day was addressed immediately. That behavior is completely unacceptable and he was embarrassed by it. We are convinced that it will not happen again.

2008-09-04 00:15:48
47.   Xeifrank
Ran a quick sim of the upcoming three games vs Arizona. Preliminary output looks like Dodgers are slight faves in all three.

Lowe: 52.3%
Billingsley: 54.6%
Kershaw: 53.2%

Should be an exciting series.
vr, Xei

2008-09-04 00:26:18
48.   sporky
I saw this on the Ducksnorts blog, and thought it would be an interesting thing to try here (although there is great potential for rule violations).

1. What one thing would you do this off-season to improve the club?
2. Why would you do this? How will it help?
3. What are arguments in favor of your proposal?
4. What are arguments against it?
5. Is it realistic to think that the Dodgers might actually do something like this?
6. If not, are there alternatives that could achieve similar effect?

2008-09-04 00:30:49
49.   The Dude Abides
That was hilarious. Thanks for the link, as I had switched over to watch the US Open.
2008-09-04 00:44:35
50.   Alex41592
About the upcoming series:

"They're coming in our house and nobody comes in our house and tells us what to do" - Russell Martin

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-09-04 00:46:20
51.   bhsportsguy
48 1. Make a decision on Ned Colletti, either fire him or extend him.
2. A lameduck GM would be faced with questions about his future and any moves he makes would be viewed within that prism. If you fire him, you allow the next person a honeymoon period plus you look at things from a fresh perspective. If you extend him, that removes the uncertainity and everyone can focus on the team.
3. As I stated above, the last thing the Dodgers need is constant attention on the front office, they need to move the focus onto the field and the players.
4. Certainly, firing your second GM within 5 years of owning the club does not speak well for your patience and any idea of stability but extending a GM that is certainly not considered among the best in the business may set you back even more.
5. If what we read from press reports since the trade deadline is true, McCourt is unhappy but may not want to pay two GMs since he just finished paying Depodesta too. But McCourt wants to win so he may take the opportunity to grab the other half of the Yankees successful team of Cashman and Torre.
6. I can't think of any alternatives.
2008-09-04 01:05:38
52.   Eric Enders
42 Well, Goldstein's right that Lambo's absolutely not a top 50 prospect right now. With his hot finish he's probably put himself within striking distance of the top 100, though.

Actually, for the first time in a while, I don't think the Dodgers have anyone who's guaranteed to make BA's top 100. The only one who was a sure thing was Santana. Elbert, McDonald, DeJesus, and possibly Lambo could make it, but I could also see any of them being left off.

2008-09-04 05:33:08
53.   D4P
Would a division title for the Dodgers this year essentially guarantee that Ned keeps his job...?
2008-09-04 06:32:38
54.   Sam PHL
53. With the way Manny's been playing, I think it would. Why do you ask...?
2008-09-04 06:39:29
55.   D4P
51 brought the question to my mind.
2008-09-04 06:54:21
56.   Ken Noe
Thanks to those unnamed sources (Rosenthal's vendors?) Heyman speculates that Ned will be back in 2009 win or lose, but not because McCourt is in any way happy with him. I assume it would be because of McCourt's money-flow worries, not wanting to pay two GMs. That means bh's worst-case scenario, and Ned on a tight leash as we saw most of this year. He'd be allowed to resign Manny I'm sure, maybe Blake, but that leads to young and cheap otherwise. Frank won't allow another Jones deal. I do think that JP is being pushed into approving (if not demanding) a trade, although I can't imagine LA would get much in return other than bench space and a bit of salary savings. I guess Ned on a leash is better than Ned unchained, but it doesn't solve the lame duck-ness bh rightly points to.
2008-09-04 06:55:24
57.   Andrew Shimmin
I still think Colletti is done, no matter how the team finishes the year. Unless that hard salary cap that became obvious at the trade deadline was something they'd agreed to in advance (which could be the case, I guess), I don't see how you take away his checkbook in July, and give it back to him in November.
2008-09-04 07:00:00
58.   Andrew Shimmin
Colletti's last salary dump didn't go spectacularly well. He agreed to pay all of Odalis Perez's salary, threw in two low level prospects, and got back Elmer Dessens. There are ways to lose a Pierre trade.
2008-09-04 07:04:30
59.   D4P
He agreed to pay all of Odalis Perez's salary, threw in two low level prospects, and got back Elmer Dessens

...and then failed to offer Elmer arbitration.

2008-09-04 07:07:02
60.   Ken Noe
57 I certainly hope you're right, he should be done and would be most anywhere else. I wanted to fire him after I first saw Gary Bennett throw, and have been confident of his exit. But Heyman's piece sadly makes sense to me given the context of all we've read this year. It would not involve giving him the checkbook back.
2008-09-04 07:13:06
61.   Dodger Dawg
McCourt should do what's best for the Dodgers, and that is to replace Ned with a baseball man (or woman).One who knows how to evaluate talent and hold the PR cliches.
2008-09-04 07:14:18
62.   Sam PHL
How confident are we that Ned's successor would be any better? I think much of the organizational dysfunction stems from the top, and I don't have faith that McCourt will pick a great GM. Plus, given the lack of a commitment to a plan (and the treatment of Depo), how many really smart GM candidates would want to work for him?

I don't mean to imply that Ned shouldn't be fired, but I just lack confidence in the organization to replace him with anyone better.

2008-09-04 07:16:44
63.   D4P
How confident are we that Ned's successor would be any better?

Not very. There are at least two separate questions involved here.

1. Should Ned be replaced with a better GM?
2. Does Ned deserve to be fired because of his performance?

IMO, Ned deserves to be fired, but not because he'll necessarily be replaced by a better GM.

2008-09-04 07:19:42
64.   Ken Noe
If I hire a plumber to fix my pipes, and instead he floods the house, he has to go. I'll ask around and hope that the next guy is better, but I'm still firing the failure. That said, I would assume that the short list would be Ng, White, and maybe Cashman, none of whom would be worse.
2008-09-04 07:22:27
65.   Sam PHL
Weren't Ng and White the plumber's assitants?
2008-09-04 07:26:00
66.   whodat807
I gotta believe that Ng or White (most likely White) would get the next crack at the GM job. I'd be delighted with either.
2008-09-04 07:26:48
67.   Ken Noe
65 They used to work for better plumbers at least, plus White was the one telling Ned to keep the good young fixtures.
2008-09-04 07:27:01
68.   silverwidow
The Dodgers have decided to start Clayton Kershaw instead of Greg Maddux in the series finale on Sunday. Kershaw, who will be pitching on regular rest due to Thursday's off-day, threw six shutout innings against the D-backs on Aug. 1, when he also faced Randy Johnson in a game Arizona won, 2-1. Maddux sports a 9.75 ERA against the D-backs in two starts this season and a 5.37 ERA for his career, more than two runs higher than his career ERA and the highest against any club he's faced more than six times. Maddux will next throw against his former club, the Padres, on Monday after he threw 5 2/3 innings of two-run ball against them this past Monday.
2008-09-04 07:27:48
69.   silverwidow
That's from the postgame notes.
2008-09-04 07:31:27
70.   Sam PHL
I certainly hope Ng or White will do better, but I just wonder how invloved they were with some of Ned's bad decisions.

I'll stop with the analogy after this, but was White okay with giving away nice fixtures to Tampa Bay and Cleveland?

2008-09-04 07:40:03
71.   Ken Noe
70 Certainly White went along with moving more LaRoche recently, which raised the ire of many here. Ng I confess has always been a mystery to me on these issues.
2008-09-04 07:45:40
72.   Bluebleeder87

is Cashman better at evaluating talent then Colletti?

2008-09-04 07:52:43
73.   Bluebleeder87

from what we've seen of Frank McCourt he likes going for a big name [Torre] or some body with great communication skills [Colletti] that has been his trend the last few years, McCourt isn't a baseball man so I won't be surprised if we fall back on the same problem WE'VE HAD SINCE he took over.

So I guess what i'm saying is that maybe he's the problem, that isn't to say he ain't learning though...

2008-09-04 08:02:26
74.   Bob Hendley
59 - I see that Elmer just signed a contract with the Braves, after leading the Diablos to the Mexican League championship over the Sultanes last week.
2008-09-04 08:19:00
75.   ToyCannon
So Saturday is Chad and Sunday is Clayton. The future is here.

I understand the naysayers about the Manny trade but Dodger Stadium has never been so fun and for most fans that is the bottom line. The crowd lives and dies with every at bat. Now I know how the Giant fans felt when their guy had the bat taken out of his hands. Sucks the life right out of the crowd.

2008-09-04 08:32:08
76.   ToyCannon
Regarding the top 100 from what I've heard I'm certain that McDonald and DeJesus will be in it. Since the scouts all agree that Elbert has the higher ceiling I'd be surprised if he is not in it. I'd be very comfortable saying that at least two Dodgers will be in the top 100 with as many as 4.

Goldstein may be the last non-believer in Lambo. He was also quite certain that Dejesus was only going to be a punch and judy hitter.

Just a shame about Carlos Santana. A crying spilled milk kind of shame.

2008-09-04 08:40:25
77.   regfairfield
59 Didn't we trade him for Brady Clark? Or was that Elmer Dessens tour of duty one.
2008-09-04 08:45:01
78.   Ken Noe
76 I had a lot of emotion invested in LaRoche fandom, but I's also quite certain that down the line, the Santana trade is the one Ned trade we'll most lament.
2008-09-04 08:50:19
79.   Bumsrap
Whoever winds up as GM for the Dodgers will be working for a more educated owner. McCourt's education cost him about $130,000,000 and delayed Dodgers progress.
2008-09-04 08:53:23
80.   Paul Scott
White needs to go (or be put back in charge of drafting). Ng would be a decent choice if she learned more from her previous 2 GMs under which she served than she did from her last one.
2008-09-04 08:54:17
81.   Andrew Shimmin
Dessens was let go after '05. He came back from the Royals for Perez in '06. He went to Milwaukee for Clark in '07.
2008-09-04 08:55:46
82.   ToyCannon
Just finished reading last nights thread. I'm still laughing. I can just imagine the look on everyone's faces when he calls out Jon for telling him to settle down.
It so totally reminded me of some kid barking back at a random adult who told him to behave only to find the adult was his teacher for the year.
2008-09-04 08:56:37
83.   Bumsrap
I should add that if McCourt re-signs Nomar and Kent, he hasn't learned enough yet.
2008-09-04 09:01:47
84.   regfairfield
LaRoche put up similar (a bit worse) numbers to Santana at age 22 splitting time between AA and AAA.
2008-09-04 09:03:11
85.   Jon Weisman
83 - I see zero reason to believe those two will be back next year.
2008-09-04 09:07:45
86.   regfairfield
I could see Nomar coming back if he was willing to play for nothing and we need a cheap solution to a third baseman.
2008-09-04 09:08:18
87.   Sean P

White needs to go

No, he doesn't.

2008-09-04 09:09:36
88.   ToyCannon
As a healthy 3rd baseman. Did you see what Carlos did after he left the Cal League? Remember all that talk about his power being doubles power because of the Cal league. Is anyone talking about that anymore?

You respect Law's opinion, don't you?

2008-09-04 09:11:07
89.   silverwidow
I'm still waiting for Santana to hit AA pitching.
2008-09-04 09:12:17
90.   regfairfield
88 Of course. I'm pretty high on Santana, but if you think LaRoche is a flame out, you have to consider that the same thing could happen to Santana.
2008-09-04 09:13:07
91.   regfairfield
And I was just looking at his Cal League stats when I said that.
2008-09-04 09:13:45
92.   ToyCannon
Paul Scott - Logan White
Regfairfield - Anyone named Blake
JoeyP - James Loney
D4P - Just about everyone
Dodger Thoughts - Juan Pierre
2008-09-04 09:13:54
93.   natepurcell
Lets not talk about Carlos Santana...I don't feel like crying in the office today.
2008-09-04 09:16:43
94.   underdog
80 Logan White definitely does not need to go, but I'd be perfectly happy if he continues on in his role as one of the best scouting directors in the business. Kim Ng would make a great GM, actually, in my opinion. I'm also not convinced that anyone will be a perfect GM. But we can certainly do better than current head honcho.

93 Women like that in a man. Just sayin'.

2008-09-04 09:17:05
95.   ToyCannon
I don't consider LaRoche a flame out. At the moment he is a disappointment, it will be a few years before I write him off. Once healthy he could be exactly the player you expected him to be. But I'd still trade him for two months of Manny even if he does reach that potential.
2008-09-04 09:17:31
96.   Ken Noe
It took Navarro awhile to blossom in St. Pete--it's way too early to give up on LaRoche. But that said, he's not a catcher.
2008-09-04 09:19:09
97.   regfairfield
95 That wasn't directed at you.

96 Plus he's younger than LaRoche if you can believe it.

2008-09-04 09:20:29
98.   regfairfield
Right now I'm just hoping Andy pulls a Carlos Quentin.
2008-09-04 09:24:12
99.   Bumsrap
Without getting into which players would give the Dodgers the best chance to make and do well in the playoffs--I enjoy watching DeWitt play much more than I enjoy watching Kent play. Also, while I am enjoying Berroa more as the result of him having fun with Manny, I would enjoy watching Hu more than Nomar and Berroa if Hu were to start hitting again.
2008-09-04 09:27:54
100.   cargill06
98 You and me both, I told my buddy (Red Sox fan) in March that LaRoche would have a better offensive career than Pedroia.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-09-04 09:29:16
101.   MC Safety
92 Don't forget Tripon-Andy LaRoche. I was hoping I'd make the list for Jeff Kent, but everyone (besides gpellamjr) hates Jeff Kent.
2008-09-04 09:34:54
102.   regfairfield
I don't hate Blake DeWitt, I just think there's irrational exuberance around him.

Casey Blake is totally fair though.

2008-09-04 09:45:34
103.   ToyCannon
Those were not examples of posters who hate players, more of an overrated feeling.
2008-09-04 09:50:44
104.   Johnny Nucleo
One thing I don't understand: why is Santana considered a prospect, but Sergio Pedroza was not? They had very similar stats at similar ages.
2008-09-04 09:51:42
105.   regfairfield
What are the odds that Carlos Santana is a higher rated prospect than Matt LaPorta this year?
2008-09-04 09:52:07
106.   Bumsrap
92 and 102
"Paul Scott - Logan White
Regfairfield - Anyone named Blake
JoeyP - James Loney
D4P - Just about everyone
Dodger Thoughts - Juan Pierre"

Bumsrap - Andy LaRoche

2008-09-04 09:53:01
107.   regfairfield
104 Pedroza was at a lower level and he struck out way more.
2008-09-04 09:55:43
108.   Lexinthedena
I like DeWitt as a 2nd baseman if there is a 3rd baseman who can bring above average production, and I like DeWitt as a 3rd baseman if the same can be said about the 2nd baseman.
2008-09-04 09:55:50
109.   Johnny Nucleo
104 Never mind. I always thought of him as a catcher, but in the 14 games he played there he had 4 passed balls. Guess that conversion didn't really pan out. Shows you how much I know about Dodger prospects.
2008-09-04 09:59:22
110.   KG16
73 - McCourt, like many owners, I suspect, is a baseball fan. That doesn't mean he has any idea of how to actually construct a team, and really, that shouldn't be his job anyway. He probably has a pretty decent idea, as most baseball fans do, as to what constitutes good baseball and what constitutes bad baseball (your mileage may vary). My problem is that he's a bit too fickle, never giving a GM or Manager more than two or three years to implement their system.

80 - I tend to believe that one learns more from failure than they do from success (particularly one's own failures and successes). In large part because success rarely prompts one to self-evaluation. Learning from others' successes and failures is not a bad thing, so I would hope that many in the front office learned just as much from the Colletti Administration as they did from the DePodesta Administration or the Evans Administration. If course, I also hope that they learned different things from each of those administrations as well.

2008-09-04 10:01:01
111.   cargill06
105 Let's not open that can of worms. It won't be a pretty thread if that's the case.
2008-09-04 10:03:59
112.   ToyCannon
Interestingly enough he has exactly 374 strikeouts and hits in his minor league career.

When some people talk about the potential of Kyle Russel I think of Pedroza. Excellent power, excellent ability to take a walk, but those strike out rates at the lower levels just sound the alarm.

2008-09-04 10:06:08
113.   Disabled List
Alex Belth has some really good posts up at Bronx Banter today, showing the NY Giants and the Polo Grounds some of the nostalgic love that's usually reserved for the Brooklyn Dodgers and Ebbets Field.
2008-09-04 10:06:20
114.   ToyCannon
Zero, Matt has the pedigree and glossiness of the 1st round pick.
2008-09-04 10:07:06
115.   fanerman
112 Sadly, I associate the phrase "sound the alarm" with Catcher's Interference plays.
2008-09-04 10:09:17
116.   Tripon
101 Hey, I don't hate Andy LaRoche, I just didn't fall in love with him and wonder at times why everyone is in love with him(minor league stats). I saw 2008 as a lost year for him, and didn't believe he could improve the Dodgers chances in any way in 2008 even if he played regularly due to the major league staff not fully trusting him like they did with DeWitt.
2008-09-04 10:10:55
117.   Kevin Lewis

Thanks for pointing me to last nights thread. That was awesome. It reminded me of how I used to log into AOL chat rooms in Jr High and I would create a login name similar to someone using lower case l in place of uppercase I...they looked the same. Then I would post ridiculous things, people would start commenting, and other user would wonder what the heck is going on, saying "I didn't type that!"

I am not proud of it, but it was funny

2008-09-04 10:12:17
118.   bhsportsguy
No one else responded to Sporky's comment.
2008-09-04 10:12:49
119.   regfairfield
114 Let's hope, because Santana's age 22 season is way better than LaPorta's.
2008-09-04 10:17:14
120.   Lexinthedena
Santana is going to be awesome. Blake has been a very good pick-up, but it is going to hurt watching Cleveland replace Victor Martinez seamlessly.
2008-09-04 10:17:55
121.   Kevin Lewis
By the way Lex, that was some solid work at 1B

I am now the Derek Lowe of slow pitch softball

2008-09-04 10:24:12
122.   silverwidow
Isn't the jump from High-A to Double-A the biggest in pro baseball? Lots of guys flame out once they reach that level. Let's see what happens with Santana.
2008-09-04 10:26:18
123.   natepurcell
Can we please stop talking about Santana!??! :(
2008-09-04 10:27:42
124.   silverwidow
Don't worry Nate; we might get a desperate team's 1st round pick!
2008-09-04 10:30:11
125.   KG16
118 - ok, I'll give it a go.

1. I would look for a third baseman, either free agency (not much there) or by trade (depending on who is available, anyone not on the 40 man roster would be a trading chip - with one or two possible exceptions).

2. Assuming Manny is resigned, and DeWitt gets the job at second, third base is the main concern. (Hu should be given a chance at short).

3. The Dodgers don't have anyone else in the system that could take the job at the ML level next year or even in a year or two. It is the one glaring hole in the line up (save left field if Manny leaves and Pierre/Jones are the options there). The Dodgers have established their core, now it's time to supplement and let the team grow.

4. Loss of prospects, recent track record on free agents/trades. As to the prospects issue, I say: except for pitching, the Dodgers don't have much veteraness that can (or should) be replaced in the near future; if prospects aren't going to help the big club by being on the big club, they help by being traded. On the track record, I say: hope for the best, plan for the worst; the battle plan never survives the first engagement.

5. I'd say highly likely, especially if the front office believes the Dodgers are in a spot to challenge for the NL Pennant for the next 5-8 years.

6. I'll have to give alternatives some thought. Perhaps getting Robinson Cano and moving DeWitt back to third, but I haven't seen Cano's numbers lately.

2008-09-04 10:31:11
126.   cargill06
Arizona and Petit have to go to SF and face Lincecum on Monday while Maddux will face Baek. We could easily make up a game on Monday.
2008-09-04 10:32:14
127.   Lexinthedena
121 You are the Brandon Webb, of Fausto Carmona's of Softball.....I froze on that groundball...I need to start gettin on front of them. My bat is starting to wake up too, you just watch. Gerardo's head first slide needs to be on the cover of Los Pistoleros media guide.
2008-09-04 10:34:14
128.   natepurcell

Blake on the cusp of type A free agency is a consolation, I agree.

2008-09-04 10:39:25
129.   Jon Weisman
Guess who wrote the foreword for "100 Things Red Sox Fans Should Know and Do Before They Die."
2008-09-04 10:40:10
130.   Bob Timmermann
Peter Gammons?
2008-09-04 10:43:49
131.   Lexinthedena
129 Peter Gammons?....or ummm, Peter Gammons?....maybe it was Peter Gammons?
2008-09-04 10:44:24
132.   Zak
129 Manny? :)
2008-09-04 10:45:40
133.   Eric Stephen
I'm going to guess Bill Simmons, or CHB.
2008-09-04 10:45:42
134.   Zak
129 Is it Gammons? Seems too obvious. Give us a hint.
2008-09-04 10:46:04
135.   Icaros

Cousin Mose?

2008-09-04 10:47:09
136.   Jon Weisman
It was not a member of the press.
2008-09-04 10:47:56
137.   Bob Timmermann
I have a second guess, but my first guess hasn't been ruled right or wrong and I don't know if I'm entitled to a second guess.
2008-09-04 10:48:41
138.   Johnny Nucleo
118 This would be a good thing to put in a "Season Post-Mortem" thread, when the season's all wrapped up.
2008-09-04 10:48:48
139.   Bob Timmermann
Steven King.
2008-09-04 10:48:53
140.   whodat807
Frank McCourt?
2008-09-04 10:49:18
141.   Zak
Curt Shilling
2008-09-04 10:50:00
142.   Jacob Burch
Is there a good way to practice basic softball infield defense without embarassment in a league game? I'm looking to join some team some where as a exercise motivation (along with a few other sports), but want to avoid the easy no run positions. DT wiffleball is a true inspiration!
2008-09-04 10:50:07
143.   Eric Stephen
Henri Stanley is going to write the foreword for Jon's book.
2008-09-04 10:51:05
144.   delias man
Ted Williams' head?
2008-09-04 10:51:46
145.   Eric Stephen
First base and catcher are the two go-tos for non-movement. If you can throw strikes, pitcher is a good spot (I haven't been nailed by a line drive yet!) too.
2008-09-04 10:53:47
146.   bhsportsguy
129 "The pride of UCLA (and Okinawa)."
2008-09-04 10:53:59
147.   ToyCannon
Sometimes I just love this place.
2008-09-04 10:54:35
148.   sporky
136 I couldn't help it, I had to google. Thanks for the laugh.
2008-09-04 10:54:42
149.   ToyCannon
Bill Spaceman Lee
2008-09-04 10:55:21
150.   old dodger fan
129 An Old Friend?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-09-04 10:55:45
151.   ToyCannon
Cheater, loved the open book tests did you?
2008-09-04 10:56:07
152.   Jon Weisman
143 - You cheated, didn't you?
2008-09-04 10:56:07
153.   natepurcell
Simon Burch.
2008-09-04 10:57:31
154.   Lexinthedena
129 Kevin Garnett?
2008-09-04 10:57:48
155.   Eric Stephen
Yes, I admit it. At least I didn't completely give it away.

Hey, I can do what I want. If you want to criticize me, you should get your own website and post there! :)

(I'm sad I missed that exchange last night)

2008-09-04 10:58:28
156.   sporky
151 :)

152 You should get Mike Davis or Alfredo Griffin to write a foreward.

2008-09-04 10:58:31
157.   bhsportsguy
I cheated but it was hard to find, it took many types of searches, fortunately I have spent a career looking for needles in haystacks so this was right in my wheelhouse.
2008-09-04 10:59:03
158.   ToyCannon
So, what Dodger should write the forward for Jon's book based on that pathetic knowledge?
Who has done more with less?

I bet he ends up with Ross Porter.

2008-09-04 11:00:32
159.   Eric Stephen
2008-09-04 11:00:32
160.   Bob Timmermann
The Angels have hit into three DPs in the first three innings against Detroit and none of them have been on ground balls.

Line drive DP
Popped up squeeze attempt DP

Nevertheless, the Angels lead 6-0.

2008-09-04 11:00:33
161.   ToyCannon
that was great, it will be funny for a while before we tire of it.

Amazon always mentions the forward. How deep a haystock did you climb in?

2008-09-04 11:00:33
162.   Kevin Lewis

Aside from in game experience, which can be painful...practice and more practice

Our team is actually getting together to practice in Pasadena this Sunday, so you can always join us to field hitting practice...can't think of a better way

2008-09-04 11:01:16
163.   Bob Timmermann
I'll take some action on who is writing the foreword to Jon's book.
2008-09-04 11:04:20
164.   Lexinthedena
163 I nominate Chad Fonville.
2008-09-04 11:04:41
165.   gpellamjr
101 Scanning, as I do, each thread only for my name to show up, I noticed this post. I think Tripon is not the biggest LaRoche hater here. What about Alex(the one with the numbers after his name), who feels the need to tell us that every HR LaRoche hits was off of a hanging breaking ball?
2008-09-04 11:05:43
166.   GoBears
My favorite scenario for 2009 is for Kim Ng to get the GM job, but short of that ...

While I was among the first to call for Ned Colletti's head on a spike, I'm thinking now that maybe keeping him around, WITHOUT McCourt's checkbook might be the least of all evils. Let him try to re-sign Ramirez and/or go after Sabathia, but then shut him down. This team has so much young, cheap talent that the best thing next year's GM can do is to sit on his hands and let the young guys play. Any new GM will feel obliged to "put his stamp on the team," while Colletti with an extension and access to the pot of money will feel vindicated and continue his inane meddling (really, I see most of his moves as purely pointless - sound and fury signifying nothing). A still-nervous Colletti might be the least bad alternative, as long as McCourt doesn't let him gamble for resurrection (maybe require unanimity among Colletti/Ng/White/Watson before allowing any move). At some level, Colletti has thrown his lot in with the youth movement - he has greater reason to see it through than any not-from-within replacement would have.

I have not been impressed with Cashman as a talent evaluator over the years, although I'll admit it's hard to know how many of his bad decisions were his own and how many were mandated from on high. And the Bowdens and Gillicks of the world scare me.

2008-09-04 11:08:38
167.   still bevens
165 That story about LaRoche not hustling on a ground ball in Pittsburgh makes you wonder whether all those quotes about young players not learning/'getting it'/whatever were directed at LaRoche and not Kemp.
2008-09-04 11:12:15
168.   ToyCannon
Ned without a checkbook might not seem like a bad idea but wouldn't that just result in more deals where he sells prospects for veterans if the other team pays the salaries?

There is now an older guy sitting in the bullpen with no defined job. He looks like the old peanut vendor who retired. I'll have to get a picture of him on Saturday to see if anyone can tell me who he is.

2008-09-04 11:12:57
169.   regfairfield
167 LaRoche would have to play for it to be true.
2008-09-04 11:14:36
170.   ToyCannon
Maybe LaRoche spent a lot of time watching film of Karros and Kent and figured that was how it is done in the major leagues. They had bad knee's but really how tough is it to run hard three times a game for 90 feet?
2008-09-04 11:16:23
171.   ToyCannon
He could have been lazy during infield practice. Not take well to instruction or simply not do the extra practice they would expect of a rookie.

None of that jives with a guy who was willing to be a 3rd catcher if that meant he could get to the majors sooner.

2008-09-04 11:17:31
172.   GoBears
I have spent a career looking for needles in haystacks so this was right in my wheelhouse.

Current leader in the clubhouse for "Best Mixed Metaphor After the All-Star Break."

2008-09-04 11:18:38
173.   bhsportsguy
172 So is the Nate Longshore era over?
2008-09-04 11:18:45
174.   old dodger fan
166 GM needs to decide whether to take the "Penny Option";
Whether to resign Lowe/Furcal/Blake/Manny;
he has several players arb eligible (7?).

He (she) is gonna be busy.

2008-09-04 11:19:49
175.   GoBears
Ned without a checkbook might not seem like a bad idea but wouldn't that just result in more deals where he sells prospects for veterans if the other team pays the salaries?

Good point by you. I was using "Checkbook" to mean "authority to make deals." You're right - he'd have to be constrained in his freedom to spend minor leaguers too.

2008-09-04 11:22:13
176.   GoBears
173. Sure seems like it, unless and until Riley gets hurt. Longshore was awful last year after he got hurt (and evidently didn't heal). Riley can move around a lot better, which is probably important now that Cal's entire receiving corps from last year is playing on Sundays. It's going to take the lesser talents they have now more time to get open, so the QB can't be a statue.
2008-09-04 11:26:36
177.   whodat807
176 I dunno, Tedford said he wanted to give Longshore playing time--and he did, with terrible results in the first half of the Mich State game. Watching Tedford (who is otherwise a great coach) stick to Longshore through the last year's precipitious collapse makes me wonder if he'll really be content to let Riley get all the snaps.
2008-09-04 11:27:33
178.   old dodger fan
From today:

Brandon Lyon-
at Chase Field- 7.09 ERA in 28 games.
On the road- 2.22 ERA.

2008-09-04 11:30:01
179.   GoBears
174. My answer on those would be yes if and only if Penny shows he healthy, no on Furcal, Blake unless they'll bite at 1-yr, incentive-laden contracts (they won't), and no on Lowe (I really like Lowe, but he won't be worth what he gets paid by someone). As for Ramirez, I already allowed that Colletti should make a run at him.

Basically what I'm calling for is a do-nothing, figurehead GM. In most situations, that would be a horrible idea, but because the core of this team is under control, I think it would be a better idea than anyone with a "win now" mandate and carte blanche. Gridlock is bad if change is needed; if the status quo is pretty good, the gridlock is not the worst state of affairs.

I started by saying I think Colletti is a dreadful GM. But I agree with others that the unknown successor might not only be worse, but with a greater incentive to show how much worse right away. Hence my suggestion that keeping Colletti on as a horrible-but-with-his-hands-tied GM might be the 2nd best option for 2009 (after canning him in favor of Ng).

2008-09-04 11:31:34
180.   Alex41592
165 - I certainly don't hate Andy LaRoche at all. His HR's have been off hanging breaking balls. And the one Harang threw him was an awful pitch. I was merely describing the pitch for those who could not see it because a lot of people care about Andy LaRoche. If it were a 95 MPH fastball at the knees I would have written that, but it was a hanging breaking ball.
2008-09-04 11:36:22
181.   cargill06
173 Nate beat me out at QB in HS, we split time 3 weeks than I was sent into a season long bench gig.

Has really nothing to do with nothing, just sharing.

2008-09-04 11:37:48
182.   Ken Noe
Just watched the hilarious Berroa-Manny interview. I especially liked:

"How do you like your new left fielder?"
"You mean Juan Pierre?"

2008-09-04 11:39:42
183.   Ken Noe
171 There was the story last year that he quit doing the required back exercises, which made me wonder a little.
2008-09-04 11:40:14
184.   UVaDodger
182 Is that on
2008-09-04 11:42:22
185.   Ken Noe
184 Jon just linked it above, my Hoo friend.
2008-09-04 11:42:31
186.   bhsportsguy
Counting today, there is only one more day this season where both the Dodgers and D-Backs are off and that is next Thursday.

After this weekend, the Dodgers and Diamondbacks play around the same time 5 times, the Dodgers play earlier 4 times and they play later 10 times.

The half-game difference will be gone on September 22nd when D-Backs are in St. Louis.

2008-09-04 11:43:07
187.   cargill06
184 see 31
2008-09-04 11:47:02
188.   UVaDodger
185 , 187 Thanks...I feel dumb now. Saw that earlier, but was in class and totally forgot about it.
2008-09-04 11:47:29
189.   ToyCannon
One of my good friends was the High School Quarterback as a Junior. As a senior he got hurt and they turned to a guy in my sophomore class named Bob Gagliano. He took the job and never gave it up even after my friend came back.
He was good but I think most of us were shocked that he ended with a decent pro career considering he went to a JC.
2008-09-04 11:48:27
190.   old dodger fan
Penny-Tough call but the difference between his option and the full contract is $6.75 million. Unless I know he is done I think I'd keep him.

Lowe-I would try to keep him.

Furcal-I love him but unless he will sign a 1 year deal to prove himself healthy before going FA I wouldn't bite.

Kent/Nomar-Wouldn't touch em.

Blake-Who's gonna play 3B if we don't sign him? I'd like to keep him.

Manny-I wonder just how much money this McCourt guy has.

2008-09-04 11:49:55
191.   old dodger fan
185 Tyrod Taylor this week?
2008-09-04 11:51:14
192.   Bluebleeder87

I really feel if Andy La Roche applies him self he can be a really good ball player, I heard of that too (back exercise thing) who knows... I think he is capable of becoming an all-star. veremos.

2008-09-04 11:52:39
193.   UVaDodger
191 Wrong University in Virginia.
2008-09-04 11:54:22
194.   old dodger fan
193 It was addressed to Ken. I thought he was a VT alum.
2008-09-04 11:54:41
195.   Ken Noe
191 Yeah, the redshirt didn't last long. Not much chance of real change, though, until Beamer picks a new OC as well. At least one good thing about being a Tech fan, though, is that aside from 1999 we never did much with that "offense" thing anyway.
2008-09-04 11:55:23
196.   Ken Noe
193 194 Hokie Hokie Hokie Hi.
2008-09-04 11:56:30
197.   old dodger fan
195 Special teams kind of bit you last week. Ugh!
2008-09-04 12:00:10
198.   Ken Noe
197 I hate to say it, but VT lost the edge in special teams a a few years ago. A lot of teams now understand and do what Frank pioneered. Defense usually carries us, but they're young this year and Harris was out.
2008-09-04 12:03:35
199.   Reddog
Right now Berroa is playing a terrific shortstop, and showing he can hit. He's only 28. I say he's our shortstop. DeWitt is our 2nd baseman. Torre clearly likes him.

I don't see anything complicated about this off- season. We re-sign Casey Blake for two years, and we hopefully sign Manny to a 2 year deal. Our outfield is set with Ethier, Kemp and Manny. We can hopefully trade or dump Pierre and Jones. Maybe we pick up a new starting pitcher, like Sabathia.

If Ned stays, he'll be on a tight leash.

2008-09-04 12:05:01
200.   Bob Timmermann
I predict that Manny Ramirez and Scott Boras will ask for a contract where the number of years is not a prime number.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-09-04 12:05:40
201.   Andrew Shimmin
The back exercise story was that he'd taken one day off, and happened to tweak it the next day. The only thing that story proved, to my eye, was that he was kind of an idiot for handing the press the bullet they were going to shoot him with.
2008-09-04 12:07:46
202.   Andrew Shimmin
200- I bet he'd take five.
2008-09-04 12:07:55
203.   Jon Weisman
199 - Manny won't sign for two years, the Dodgers won't sign both Manny and Sabathia (even assuming they sign one), and they'll be lucky to get rid of either Pierre or Jones, let alone both. And Berroa has needed his hottest streak in years just to raise his OPS to .620.
2008-09-04 12:08:33
204.   Icaros

Put last night out of your mind and explain to me how Berroa should be at SS next year over Hu.

Manny forced his way out of Boston because he had only two more years on contract. No way he signs for two or less.

2008-09-04 12:09:14
205.   Bob Hendley
92 - TC, regfairfield once used the "s" word in association with Pee Wee, does that count?
2008-09-04 12:10:58
206.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know about that. Dave Brubeck is pushing 90 and he doesn't have a lot of range to his left.
2008-09-04 12:11:34
207.   Sean P

LaRoche may not have quit doing those back exercises because he was being lazy. He may have done so because he felt that they were not helping. It is not all that hard to lose hope and become resigned to chronic injuries when they don't improve after months of rehabilitation (I have been through this myself with a neck injury).

As a young prospect trying to break into the Majors, it is not that hard to imagine a scenario where LaRoche felt that he needed to cover up that he was not recovering all the way from a back injury.

And I think a lot would be explained if it were revealed that Andy is still suffering from chronic back pain.

2008-09-04 12:17:02
208.   UVaDodger
194 196 My mistake. I feel like that guy last night. Out of my element.

Now, as a general question, is there any reason to expect that we will sign Sabathia? Who was the last superstar FA in their prime the Dodgers signed? I'd love to get CC, but what odds would you guys put on it happening? 20-1?

2008-09-04 12:22:46
209.   Ken Noe
201 207 My point, poorly expressed I guess, was that the Andy-back story was the only time I ever heard anything that could be construed as "laziness" before the trade.

208 No sweat.

2008-09-04 12:24:18
210.   Eric Stephen
Who was the last superstar FA in their prime the Dodgers signed

A certain player who said of LA, "let it burn."

2008-09-04 12:31:31
211.   trainwreck
I have a back injury that I have had to do exercises for a long time and usually what happens is that when it stops being an issue, I stop doing exercises for a bit, because they can be annoying to do. Then of course, it becomes an issue again.

Plus, back injuries flare up more if you lift weights and do not do a lot of stretching.

2008-09-04 12:35:38
212.   Andrew Shimmin
The three Dodgers who've gotten tarred with make-up issues recently are LaRoche, Kemp, and JtD. None of the evidence used to advance the case against any of the three was all that interesting, to me, but I'm less inclined to dismiss it out of hand than I used to be.
2008-09-04 12:37:34
213.   silverwidow
Sign CC for 6/150
Sign Furcal for 1/10+incentives

1B Loney
2B Hu/DeJesus
SS Furcal
3B DeWitt

LF Pierre/Jones
CF Kemp
RF Ethier


This is decent team. The offense will suffer, but the fantastic pitching staff should keep them in games.

2008-09-04 12:39:04
214.   silverwidow
213 I always take Martin for granted.
2008-09-04 12:43:04
215.   UVaDodger
213 What does payroll look like there? Seems like it would be a lot. And is Penny not worth 7 mil?
2008-09-04 12:46:31
216.   Eric Stephen
I would throw Abreu into that camp as well, from the club's standpoint.
2008-09-04 12:46:35
217.   still bevens
213 Jason Schmidt RIP. I think its safe to say his 1 win will be his contribution to the Dodgers over the span of his career. Way to make Dreifort look like less of a bad move.
2008-09-04 12:49:54
218.   Disabled List
213 That team will have trouble scoring runs. Except for Furcal, it doesn't really look a lot different than the pre-Manny lineup that scuffled through the summer.
2008-09-04 12:50:23
219.   jumanjifan01
Has anyone mentioned that Lowe is going to be a type B free agent (according to Detroit Tigers Thoughts)?

Maybe I've been assuming all this time, due to a lack of injuries, that he would be type A...

2008-09-04 12:55:18
220.   GoBears
I think signing Nomar to do anything but public relations work in the front office would be really really dumb.

And I would rather sign Nomar to be the starting SS next year than Berroa.

2008-09-04 12:56:33
221.   Ken Noe
213 My best guess:
C Martin
1B Loney
2B DeWitt
SS Hu/Furcal@1 yr.
3B Some PVL (Blake/Crede/Helms/etc.)
LF Manny (or I don't know my McCourt)
CF Kemp
RF Ethier

Two of Maddux/McDonald/Elbert

2008-09-04 12:58:58
222.   old dodger fan
221 No Penny or Lowe?
2008-09-04 13:05:57
223.   Ken Noe
222 I think Lowe will walk, and Penny will be sent walking.
2008-09-04 13:08:31
224.   UVaDodger
223 Penny's option, as has been stated, costs the dodgers a couple million. I realize he is a flawed pitcher, but isn't it still worth the additional six and a half million or so to keep him for the option year?
2008-09-04 13:09:58
225.   Bob Hendley
218 - Seems a bit of a broadbrush, this pre-Manny perspective. When Rafa went down, the Bums were 18-14. They then proceeded in a downward fashion. Not all due to him being out and who knows how long he would have been able to keep it it (and whether he can come back). Just sayin.
2008-09-04 13:13:43
226.   Tripon
Berroa might get a contact from the Dodgers if they resign Manny because they're big buddies and Manny needs his posse. Not that they'll give the starting job to Berroa, but wasting a 25 man spot to keep Manny happy is something they would consider. I still say Furcal gets a one year deal to prove that his back's finally healthy.

And Berroa's 30. That he's even producing something resembling a MLB player is astonishing.

2008-09-04 13:18:24
227.   GoBears
226. I won't discount the idea of having to keep someone around to entice Ramirez to stay, but is there any indication that he and Berroa were buddies before last night, or at least before Ramirez came to LA? Clearly, they get along well, but are they longtime friends like, say, A Jones and Furcal? Would MR miss Berroa?

Ramirez to me just seems like a friendly goofball who will be fine in any clubhouse as long as he's allowed to "be Manny."

2008-09-04 13:20:06
228.   Eric Stephen
That he's even producing something resembling a MLB player is astonishing

Among SS with at least 50 games, only Tony Peña, Omar Vizquel, and Jon McDonald have been worse offensively than Berroa.

In 474 innings, Berroa is at -1 defensively (using plus/minus).

I'd say he's much closer to the definition of replacement-level player than an MLB player.

2008-09-04 13:20:29
229.   cargill06
That he's even producing something resembling a MLB player is astonishing.

He is? News to me.

2008-09-04 13:26:37
230.   Jon Weisman
227 - It had been written recently but earlier, maybe about a week ago, that Berroa had become Manny's best friend on the team.
2008-09-04 13:27:50
231.   regfairfield
Angel Berroa: .235/.299/.321

His recent hot streak has brought him back up to Angel Berroa numbers.

2008-09-04 13:30:15
232.   Bob Timmermann
Angel Berroa means "Jack Haley" in Spanish.
2008-09-04 13:35:13
233.   Lexinthedena
232 Made me laugh harder that any Croatia jersey ever could.
2008-09-04 13:35:26
234.   whodat807
I wonder where Chan Ho and his wife got the name for his new baby daughter; Selynne sounds neither Korean nor American...
2008-09-04 13:39:53
235.   MC Safety
232 Lol. Jack Haley always cracks me up. I love how he talks like he's black sometimes. Anyone else ever catch that? Me and a few friends get the biggest kick out of that.
2008-09-04 13:41:50
236.   Bob Timmermann
I think most of you didn't have to go to UCLA when Jack Haley was considered one of the fan favorites on the basketball team.

Nothing more inspiring than watching your school lose an NIT game at home to UC Irvine.

2008-09-04 13:44:31
237.   Lexinthedena
234 Do all Koreans have to give their child a Korean name? Does a polish person have to order a Kilbasa every time they walk into a restaurant? huh! Do they!
2008-09-04 13:45:05
238.   trainwreck
2008-09-04 13:45:18
239.   Lexinthedena
236 I remember "fan favorite" Sean Farnham.
2008-09-04 13:49:16
240.   Bob Timmermann
I'm still having nightmares involving Fennis Dembo.
2008-09-04 13:50:32
241.   John Hale
That was the only time I ever chose studying for a midterm over walking the 500 feet from the dorms to watch the bruins. Probably my best non-attendance decision ever.
Jack Haley was not replacement level was he?
Is he still on Fox or Laker broadcasts? Luckily we have Don MacClean on UCLA broadcasts.
2008-09-04 13:51:13
242.   MC Safety
236 Ewww...the Anteaters.

Anyone ever eaten at his family's restaurant Captain Jack's in Sunset Beach?

2008-09-04 13:52:21
243.   Sean P

Please, refrain from using that name. Thanks.

2008-09-04 13:54:42
244.   ToyCannon
It has been easy to be critical of Berroa and his ability to play baseball, but hey for the last week the man has done the job and since I've been one of his harshest critics I'll take my hat off to him.

That home run he hit last night was a deep shot, it came right toward me and for a moment I thought it was going to make the loge. Even being the normal Berroa is better then what he has been upto this point. Could Manny be helping him? Doubtfully but who knows. Cross our fingers and hope for more of the same at this point. Strange things happen in baseball, sometimes that Magic Marlon small sample size shows up at just the right time.

Brian Doyle and his ilk is proof that you can never tell what will happen in baseball no matter what the numbers say.

2008-09-04 13:56:57
245.   Lexinthedena
240 I remember some NBA player talking about when he grew up "Fennis Dembo" became synonymous with crappy... as in "That shot was Fennis Dembo"....
2008-09-04 13:58:45
246.   Lexinthedena
244 I can't figure him out...I remember when he was a rookie there was an article about how he was the strongest guy in the clubhouse, and how his wrists were so strong that he would walk around on his hands sometimes to show off. He certainly looks like he should be hitting home runs....
2008-09-04 14:14:13
247.   Jon Weisman
244 - Completely agree with you - it's just that that's basically separate from the issue that was raised: whether he should be the starting shortstop in 2009.
2008-09-04 14:19:55
248.   Fan since 59
242 I ate there a couple of months back. A friend recommended it to me and I took someone I was getting to know down there. Good food, good portions, nice atmosphere. Too bad the relationship wasn't. I had no idea that was the Haley family's place.
2008-09-04 14:20:58
249.   arborial
I think Berroa is hitting better because Manny is protecting him in the lineup
2008-09-04 14:21:52
250.   Tripon
249 Manny can protect somebody 5 spots behind him?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-09-04 14:21:54
251.   whodat807
237 Haha, of course not. I'm Korean, and my name is Andrew (well, to be honest, my middle name is Korean, but you get the idea). I just thought it was interesting, considering that a couple that are Korean natioanls and who spend a lot of time in Korea to name their child something that native Koreans will have trouble pronouncing.

Celebrities are known to give their children somewhat strange names, but this is the first time I've seen a Korean celebrirty do so; in a way, it's a historic moment!

2008-09-04 14:24:13
252.   D4P
And what of Fan Favorite and NCAA Champion Ed O'Bannon...?
2008-09-04 14:28:02
253.   trainwreck
He sells cars in Vegas.
2008-09-04 14:32:23
254.   arborial
250 His intangibles are that good ;)
2008-09-04 14:35:19
255.   arborial
250 perhaps the first one should have included a winky as well
2008-09-04 14:45:00
256.   Jim Wilson
I like this...

C Martin and Ardoin
1B Loney
2B DeWitt and Hu
SS Furcal and Berroa
3B Blake (I like his bat and grit) Tony Abreu
LF Manny (He proves how much we need a big bat) and Jones (1b as needed)
CF Kemp and Pierre (PH and runner)
RF Ethier

1. Lowe (C.C. if he is willing)
2. Billingsley
3. Kershaw
4. Kuroda
5. Maddux (I like him for his mentoring ability)
R. Elbert/McDonald
R. Kuo
R. Wade
7/LHS Beimel
SU Broxton
CLS Saito (if available)

Cut bait: Penny, Procter, Park (he'll command $$$), Kent, Young (because he needs an opportunity), nor more Nomar, Pierre, and Jones.

If they can't unload Pierre and/or Jones, which they can't, maybe they're worthy of being overpriced bench players. Isn't Sweeney and overpriced bench player/ph?

2008-09-04 14:54:58
257.   KG16
no love for Kuo getting back into the rotation?
2008-09-04 15:00:10
258.   Eric Stephen
Park (he'll command $$$)

I'll be shocked if Park gets more than 2 years and/or $8 million total.

2008-09-04 15:04:29
259.   Tripon
258 If Chan Ho Park gets $8 million from somebody, we should say goodbye and wish him luck and promote either McDonald, Elbert or Lindbloom for the long relief/spot starter/set up position.
2008-09-04 15:06:01
260.   bhsportsguy
A not-ready-for-old-friend-status player was picked up by the Yankees today

2008-09-04 15:13:48
261.   Jon Weisman
258 - I'll be shocked if Park gets more than $3 million over two years.
2008-09-04 15:18:23
262.   bhsportsguy
Just some comments about last night's game by a non-baseball scout (me).

1. Wade LeBlanc could be a good pitcher a Petco, his minor league numbers suggest that he his able to get strikeouts and his control is not that bad. He is also a flyball pitcher, which in Petco can be advantageous if you have an outfield that can make a play. However, the Dodgers did do a good job of being selective and LeBlanc was pitching too many times behind the count.
2. Kuroda kept pitching to the outside part of the plate and San Diego's left-handed hitters kept taking that ball to LF. Now it could be they couldn't square up on his pitches but it happened too many times for me to believe that wasn't the Padres' game plan against him.
3. Elbert was trying to pitch "perfect" pitches but his stuff looked pretty good from what I could see.
4. Cory Wade showed again why his absence from the pen in August was painful to the Dodgers.
5. Ethier is getting pretty sneaky with his ability to take an extra base on a hit.
6. I am not sure Martin and Kemp are batting in the right spots but whatever works.

2008-09-04 15:20:13
263.   Jon Weisman
262 - I hadn't thought about Wade when I posted about August a couple days ago. His absence did make a difference in some of those close games, didn't it?
2008-09-04 15:20:19
264.   Lexinthedena
261 His velocity is up, I could see a team giving him the dough. Minnesota loves those 2-3 year, 3-6 million per guys. Houston always needs pitching. He has been quite good.
2008-09-04 15:22:44
265.   bhsportsguy
263 Cory Wade should be the 2008 Dodger Rookie of the Year.
2008-09-04 15:24:14
266.   ToyCannon
Absolutely not
2008-09-04 15:27:22
267.   Eric Stephen
[Sgt. Osiris]
They traded a dude traded for the greatest dude in LA Dodger history for another dude traded for a Unit.
{/Sgt. Osiris]
2008-09-04 15:27:35
268.   underdog
From Tony Jackson:

This just came from the club. If there are no lingering effects, he'll throw the first of two simulated games on Saturday.

Takashi Saito threw 32 pitches in his bullpen session this morning (both fastballs and curveballs). He did not report any problems following the outing.

2008-09-04 15:28:37
269.   Tripon
264 Time for Chan Ho to go back to San Diego. He'd be a better pitcher than Wolf would be for Petco.
2008-09-04 15:29:05
270.   ToyCannon
Kershaw would argue. Other then Fernando it is probably the greatest 20 year old season in LA Dodger history for a pitcher. Not that there have been very many.

Wade has been effective. He's a middle relief pitcher.

2008-09-04 15:33:03
271.   ToyCannon
I'm a little surprised and happy for Wolf that he's still pitching well in Sept for Houston.
2008-09-04 15:36:45
272.   Eric Stephen
2008 Dodger Rookies, by VORP
Kuroda 22.3
Wade 15.6
Kershaw 11.9
Troncoso 3.8
DeWitt 3.7
2008-09-04 15:37:37
273.   ToyCannon
Remember when our young kids were OPSing between 780-800 and were generally considered a disappointment, and that the lament was that we wouldn't have anybody hit 15 home runs?

The next two weeks are going to be Loney time. No one pads their numbers at Coors like Loney does. Could be exciting to have a hitter like Manny headed to Coors. I remember how excited I'd get when the Piazza Dodgers were headed there.

2008-09-04 15:38:06
274.   Lexinthedena
C.C will be a Ranger, Met, or Yankee next season. He will get more than 6 years/150 Million. Lowe will be a Tiger, or Met, and The Dodgers will end up overpaying for Kyle Lohse. I have no Idea what will happen with Penny. McCourt will spend on Manny, do everything in his power to unload Jones, and probably keep Blake.

Matin C
Ethier RF
Manny LF
Kemp CF
Loney 1B
Blake 3B
DeWitt 2B
Hu/Berroa/DeJesus SS


Beimel (maybe)
Stults/Johnson/Stanley Spedowski

2008-09-04 15:40:39
275.   Tripon
"Andre Ethier was there and I went to give him five, but he put it down," Berroa said with a huge grin. "When I saw the rest of the guys they were sitting down. I started yelling like, 'Wow, wow, wow, what a hitter!' And then they jumped into me."

2008-09-04 15:41:18
276.   JJ42
Anyone planning on going to the games next week at Petco? It would be cool to do a mini DT gathering.
2008-09-04 15:41:51
277.   Eric Stephen
I remember the Bill Russell-led team went into Coors in the final days of what had to be 1997. Russell wanted to rest some of the big stars, and Karros basically said, "Heck no, I busted my butt all year, and I want to pad my stats." Maybe in not so many words, though.
2008-09-04 15:42:34
278.   Tripon
Andy LaRoche went 0-3 with a RBI on a ground out to 3rd base.
2008-09-04 15:42:46
279.   Eric Stephen
I will be at all 3, although I might be late Monday night (picking up a friend at the airport).
2008-09-04 15:45:15
280.   Tripon
I don't know how Lowe is a type-B FA. He's has a chance to finish with a sub 3.50 ERA.
2008-09-04 15:48:12
281.   Icaros
Other than Sabathia, what pitchers will be free agents this winter who are better than Derek Lowe?
2008-09-04 15:49:32
282.   Tripon
Dodgers outfielder Juan Pierre: "I know he doesn't draw walks and he's a low on-base percentage guy, but he is an energy guy. I just think the Dodgers miss him not being on the field. They lack that spark he provides."

Via MSTI which they got their quote from BP.

2008-09-04 15:49:40
283.   Eric Stephen
I bet he's getting killed on winning % and Ks. And he only has 23 wins.

Here are the categories:

1) Total Games (Games Started + 0.5*Games Relieved)
2) IP
3) Wins
4) Winning Pct.
5) ERA
6) K's

2008-09-04 15:49:58
284.   bhsportsguy
272 I keep forgetting Kuroda is a "rookie."
2008-09-04 15:50:28
285.   Eric Stephen
Ben Sheets
2008-09-04 15:50:59
286.   Eric Stephen
Yeah, I debated whether or not to put him on there. I guess he technically qualifies, though.
2008-09-04 15:52:40
287.   Icaros

Okay, that's two...

2008-09-04 15:53:42
288.   cargill06
Rich Harden?
2008-09-04 15:54:06
289.   Eric Stephen
Yeah, your point still stands. Lowe is basically the #3 pitcher in a weak market. I guess if A.J. Burnett opts out, he would pass Lowe but we'd be splitting hairs at that point.
2008-09-04 15:54:33
290.   Tripon
288 Isn't Harden signed though 2009? Those crazy A's and trading their best players with multiple years on their contracts.
2008-09-04 15:54:40
291.   Eric Stephen
The Cubs have an option on him, and unless his arm falls off, Mr. 1.99 ERA will be a Cub next season.
2008-09-04 15:56:14
292.   Tripon
If Lowe's a Type-B, would it be worth it to just resign him? That compensatory pick isn't going to offer the same value of 3 or 4 years of more Lowe.
2008-09-04 15:56:21
293.   Icaros
Wake me when Harden has an injury-free season.
2008-09-04 15:56:30
294.   Eric Stephen
The plan, in theory, behind trading a Harden or Blanton or Haren with multiple years left on pre-FA contracts is that they fetch more than a 2/3-month rental would get.

Of course, we could argue the relative merits of Sean Marshall, et al, but there is solid reasoning behind the practice.

2008-09-04 15:57:25
295.   cargill06
291 Isn't that that Bernie Mac (RIP) movie?
2008-09-04 16:03:47
296.   Tripon
294 True, but the A's should be looking at trading away talent they wouldn't be able to resign due to impending FA whenever it hits. Haren had a very reasonable contract, and then he signed a reasonable extension that ate up two years of his FA years.

I just don't think the A's should be trying to actively trade away guys near or in their prime two or three years away from FA like Haren was. Or they should have least got a better/immediate return for him. Did Billy Beane inquire about Carlos Quentin? .etc?

2008-09-04 16:04:59
297.   Tripon
296 Addendum. Unless they were blown away with the offer, which I don't they were.

Also, James Loney and the hour long RBI program is on ESPN2 right now.

2008-09-04 16:07:06
298.   Eric Stephen
James Loney begins his 24-day-long RBI program tomorrow night.
2008-09-04 16:08:45
299.   Lexinthedena
292 Lowe doesn't want to play in L.A anymore. Remember Gammons saying he wanted to play for the more "passionate" east coast fans?
2008-09-04 16:10:35
300.   Tripon
299 If he did, I didn't see it. And Lowe can say he ate a burrito filled with roaches and all I would care about if he can still pitch.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-09-04 16:12:12
301.   Lexinthedena
300 "You could wrap a piece of crap in tin foil, put fish hooks in it, and sell it to the Queen as earrings!"
2008-09-04 16:12:58
302.   OaklandAs
296 The A's got an awful lot in return for Haren. Two members of their starting rotation (Greg Smith, Dana Eveland), a 22-yr old CF in Carlos Gonzalez who started 75 games this year, 22-yr old OF Aaron Cunningham who OPS'd over 1000 in the minors, and is now a September callup, Brett Anderson a 20-yr old LHP who started for the U.S. Olympic team, and Chris Carter, 21, who hit 39 HR this year in the Cal League.
2008-09-04 16:13:01
303.   underdog
Sorry if someone mentioned this before but I didn't see it anywhere in this thread (it was in the Times today, maybe someone mentioned it) Anyway...

Season likely over for Dodgers' OF Jones

>>Los Angeles Dodgers outfielder Andruw Jones' injured left knee will likely keep him out for the remainder of the season.

Jones told the Los Angeles Times that his season is "basically over," in an article printed Thursday.

Jones, who is batting .161 with three home runs and 14 RBI this season, went on the 15-day disabled list August 12 with patella tendinitis his left knee and was activated Monday when teams were allowed to expand their active rosters to 40 players. However, he doesn't expect to play the rest of the campaign after injuring his surgically repaired knee during a rehab stint with Class AAA Las Vegas. "If the team needed me and I was the only one who could be out there, I would wrap it up and play," Jones told the Times. "In this situation, we have other guys who have been getting the job done. I'll try not to be in their way."<<

2008-09-04 16:15:43
304.   underdog
Jeez, the NFL's first game of the season is not only today, but it's already started!
2008-09-04 16:22:16
305.   bhsportsguy
296 Haren's VORP is 47.6, Greg Smith and Dana Eveland, who were not the best pitchers dealt to the A's in that deal (Brett Anderson is the best pitcher), have a combined VORP of 45.2. Also two of the three position prospects have also reached the show, Aaron Cunningham and Carlos Gonzalez and they still have Chris Carter, who hit 39 home runs in the Cal League (he was traded to the D-Backs for Carlos Quentin) as either another DH/1B or he could be part of trade package.

Danny Haren is a really good pitcher but the A's cannot blame the trading of Haren for their 2008 record, they got a lot for him.

2008-09-04 16:24:00
306.   Andrew Shimmin
ToyCannon's going all Speaker for the Dead, recently. I can dig it. I only hope he breaks it out the next time bhsportsguy says something cruel and hurtful about Eric Byrnes.
2008-09-04 16:25:40
307.   Tripon
302 Okay, if you say like that...

All joking aside, wouldn't all of them have to hit the majors around the same time to field a competive team, and to make it worthwhile in Beane's eyes to not trade, say Greg Smith, or Dana Eveland, or Justin Duchscherer, or Kurt Suzuki if the team isn't competitive for a given year?

2008-09-04 16:28:53
308.   D4P
Jones told the Los Angeles Times that his season is "basically over,"

I didn't realize it ever actually started.

2008-09-04 16:30:06
309.   Tripon
Is Andruw Jones saying that the Dodgers paid $36 million for one year since this season is lost?
2008-09-04 16:34:05
310.   D4P
You're that optimistic about his 2009 season...?
2008-09-04 16:35:47
311.   Kevin Lewis
I may be in the minority here, but if Lowe is willing to come back, I say we sign him. Man he is consistent. Just imagine if he had some offense behind him all year.
2008-09-04 16:36:14
312.   Tripon
310 I'm pretty optimistic that Jones is playing on the east coast next year. I'd lay 1/4th odds that he's a Braves again.
2008-09-04 16:36:29
313.   Lexinthedena
311 He doesn't want to be here Kevin!
2008-09-04 16:37:17
314.   arborial
I thought the comments from Andruw were actually quite humble. He acknowledged the disappointment in the current season and that right now the people playing in the outfield are better than him. Not the refrain of "I don't care" that we heard at the beginning of the season. I am not saying that his signing wasn't the biggest bust in baseball this year but at least he is approaching the situation with a level of maturity.
2008-09-04 16:39:12
315.   D4P
Until he offers to pay back most of his salary, humility rings hollow.
2008-09-04 16:39:34
316.   Lexinthedena
JOnes never wanted to leave Atlanta, he is not happy in L.A, and basically took the year off. He will be gone next year. Dodgers will pay half of his salary, unless he goes to NY.
2008-09-04 16:40:03
317.   OaklandAs
307 Well, the A's won at least 87 games every year from 1999-2006, including 5 playoff appearances, so I think they know how to field a competitive (or even much better) team.

But coming into this year, their key players were the injury-prone Rich Harden, Eric Chavez, and Bobby Crosby, and they decided that making the playoffs was a low probability. I think they will be very competitive again in 2010, and maybe even in 2009.

2008-09-04 16:41:10
318.   Kevin Lewis

Hence the word "if"

That's it, I am benching you

2008-09-04 16:41:29
319.   bhsportsguy
315 If presidents and CEOs don't offer to pay back their salaries if their companies have a bad year, why should Jones or any athlete?
2008-09-04 16:44:04
320.   Andrew Shimmin
319- D4P isn't allowed to respond to that because of rule five. He does invite you to subscribe to his newsletter at a special Friends of DT rate!
2008-09-04 16:44:12
321.   Lexinthedena
318 If is irrelevant if we already know that there is no IF! If you bench me, my agent will be giving you a call.

319 Nobody is accusing Presidents or CEO's of having humility.

2008-09-04 16:45:19
322.   D4P
I didn't say he should, just that "humility" is meaningless unless he puts his money where his mouth is.

That being said, when a team signs a player, I assume the player at least implicitly agrees to provide a certain service, and to get himself in shape to provide said service. Jones didn't do that, and in that respect, he didn't do what he implied he would when he signed the contract and accepted the money.

2008-09-04 16:45:49
323.   Kevin Lewis

I wonder how much his willingness would change if we go to the playoffs and win the first round

2008-09-04 16:46:27
324.   D4P
D4P isn't allowed to respond to that because of rule five

Sometimes I get annoyed by the existence of the rules list.

2008-09-04 16:47:12
325.   Lexinthedena
Nothing is implied with Millions on the table. It better be in a contract.
2008-09-04 16:48:35
326.   Tripon
317 But if that doesn't happens, would Beane decide to blow it up all again and trade all attractive assets? The thing with Beane is that he's always looking to see what he can get for his players, never minding that if Beane decides the season is lost, and trades everyone away, that it kills team's attendance and fan interest.

I don't know how many times a team can do that before interest is destroyed. That said, the Dodgers way of always thinking a city like L.A. won't accept rebuilding, and constantly trade for pricey vets is no better.

...Unless that player is Manny.

2008-09-04 16:49:19
327.   Jon Weisman
From SI via L.A. Observed:

It was no surprise to see pitcher Brad Penny canoodling with actress Eliza Dushku (Bring It On) at a Dodgers bowling event last week—they're a couple. But outfielder Matt Kemp hobnobbing with Larry King? "He comes to the games, and we've become friends," says Kemp. "L.A. is a different world. You never know what'll happen."

2008-09-04 16:49:31
328.   Bob Timmermann
And a CEO has a fiduciary responsibility to his shareholders to make sure they make money. And if s/he doesn't do it, the CEO can be fired. And be given an incredibly lucrative severance package.

Andruw Jones didn't extort his contract out of the Dodgers. If they don't want to pay him, there is a process for that. The Dodgers won't win. Jones could retire and save the Dodgers the money for the final year of his contract.

However, this argument is pointless. It's beyond pointless. It's transcended pointless.

2008-09-04 16:49:45
329.   Andrew Shimmin
324- My favorite thing about rule five is that (to the extent you abide by it) it bothers you.
2008-09-04 16:49:52
330.   underdog
324 - Rule 10 Violator! {screech!}


Wow, I'm glad Jason Campbell isn't my starting FF QB, only the backup. I'm assuming he'll get better.

2008-09-04 16:49:58
331.   arborial
perhaps humility was too strong a word. I guess I was trying to highlight a transition in Andruw's attitude from "I don't care" to "Man I sucked this year". That is also why I made sure to include the fact that I still believe it was the biggest bust in baseball this year. So it is my hope that the change that has been displayed through his words can translate into meaningful changes being made in his actions.
2008-09-04 16:51:28
332.   Andrew Shimmin
327- That's the coolest thing ever. If Larry King can hang with Matt Kemp, there's hope yet that Russ Martin will return my phone calls.
2008-09-04 16:51:51
333.   Lexinthedena
2008-09-04 16:52:30
334.   Tripon
332 I don't think Russell Martin would return your phone call unless you're a cute 20 something female. Or maybe a 30's something female if he's into Cougars.
2008-09-04 16:54:06
335.   Eric Stephen
Penny and Dushku are back together? I thought they broke up? It's amazing what good bowling can bring the world.
2008-09-04 16:54:54
336.   Bob Timmermann
Brad proved his love to her by drinking a gallon of milk in an hour.
2008-09-04 16:55:00
337.   Lexinthedena
335 It's a league game Smokey!
2008-09-04 16:55:03
338.   D4P
there's hope yet that Russ Martin will return my phone calls

You'll need to go on some kind of fashion makeover show before that ever happens. Start by scoring yourself some pimp daddy leather hats and lose the pens.

2008-09-04 16:55:50
339.   MJW101
If I were the Dodger GM in 2009 under the fiscal constraints apparently imposed by the owner I would:

1. NOT offer arb to Furcal, Nomar or Kent.

2. Offer arb to Manny, Blake and Lowe.

3. Trade Pierre + $4M, Stults, DeJesus and one or two player(s) from Canucks list (NOT including Elbert, Hu, Lambo, Withrow or any 2008 draftee) to Baltimore for Brian Roberts. This replaces Kent and allows Kemp to return to his natural place in the order and gets rid of Pierre.

4. Assuming #3 takes place, include Blake Dewitt, Scott Proctor and a player from Canuck's List (same limitation) for Melvin Mora.

5. Assuming Casey Blake accepts arb and Manny does not, include Blake, James McDonald and a player from Canuck's list (same limitation) for Audrey Huff.

Baltimore is looking to trade it's vets for young talented players. I think DeWitt, DeJesus and McDonald would be of great interest to them. Pierre + $4M serves as leadoff in place of Roberts. Stults and Proctor would be very useful and are better than much of what they have now.

The above scenario is salary neutral so the budget would not increase. Frank is happy.

The Dodgers cannot afford both Manny and CC under any circumstances.

2008-09-04 16:56:42
340.   Eric Stephen
I for one felt safe in the knowledge that Andrew had multiple reserve writing instruments just in case any of us needed it.
2008-09-04 16:57:49
341.   Andrew Shimmin
Is this image of Russ Martin based on something? I keep seeing it asserted, but haven't read whatever the source was.
2008-09-04 16:58:15
342.   Lexinthedena
340 And they were protected no less!
2008-09-04 16:58:41
343.   Eric Stephen
Something about the players you are looking to acquire seems familiar...

I for one would hold out for Huff's sister Julie.

2008-09-04 17:00:43
344.   Eric Stephen
It has to be based somewhat on this 2007 AS game image of Russ & Alyssa Milano:

2008-09-04 17:01:04
345.   Andrew Shimmin
342- With Pilot G2s, you don't need a pocket protector. They're indestructible, and they never, never, never leak. Unless you run them through the washing machine, in which case, you're hosed.
2008-09-04 17:01:08
346.   Eric Stephen
I meant Judy!

I ruined an already unfunny joke.

2008-09-04 17:02:08
347.   D4P
I'm guessing Ned's a big pen user.
2008-09-04 17:02:58
348.   Tripon
344 interviewed Russ about Manny at a local nightclub at around 2AM.

I don't think its a big assumption that Martin does troll his fair share of clubs.

2008-09-04 17:04:13
349.   Eric Stephen
Ned pays big money for old, used pens on eBay, and under-utilizes the perfectly good and new Pilot G2s that were stocked in the cupboard when he arrived.
2008-09-04 17:04:35
350.   Jim Hitchcock
275 Doug Padilla needs to learn about punctuation. The article said Kuroda gave up 10 hits in 53 innings, and Wade pitched a perfect 13.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-09-04 17:05:51
351.   fanerman
344 Who are those other people?
2008-09-04 17:06:27
352.   Lexinthedena
349 Feathered fountain pens "know how to write"...they are "pens".
2008-09-04 17:06:54
353.   Marty
Yossarian: That's some rule that rule 5.
Doc Daneeka: It's the best there is.
2008-09-04 17:07:11
354.   Eric Stephen
Huge 5-run (and counting) second inning rally for The Best Team in Baseball® to take a 5-0 lead against the Yankees behind Scott Kazmir.
2008-09-04 17:07:54
355.   Eric Stephen
I believe the dude to Milano's right is her brother.
2008-09-04 17:14:55
356.   Eric Stephen
I would imagine that was some sort of formatting error where the 1/ got removed somehow.
2008-09-04 17:17:08
357.   KG16
325 - certain things are implied in all contracts, like the covenant of good faith and fair dealing

I make the following legal analysis having never read any of the following documents: Jones' contract with the Dodgers; the standard MLB player contract; the MLB collective bargaining agreement...

I can't see how Jones breached his contract and would thus be required to pay back any money he made. He showed up when he was suppose to (spring training and games). He agreed to play baseball, I couldn't imagine that he agreed to play baseball at an All Star level or even an above average level (mainly because his agent and/or lawyer should be fired for allowing such a provision in the contract). Just because the services rendered were not satisfactory does not mean that he was in breach, and this is something that I would suspect is spelled out very clearly in the CBA.

Jones can be humble about having a bad year without saying, here, take the money back. That's just insane. He performed to the best of his ability, there are no circumstances I can see that would legally allow the Dodgers to withhold payment or demand restitution. Beyond that, most of the money is probably spent - percentage to his agent, percentage to his lawyer, and then living the life.


2008-09-04 17:22:18
358.   D4P
He agreed to play baseball, I couldn't imagine that he agreed to play baseball at an All Star level or even an above average level

I didn't say that the contract implied that he would perform at any level, just that there is an implicit understanding that a player will report in the necessary condition to allow for good performance.

Jones is fat, apparently some 30 pounds heavier than last year. He made little to no effort to be in shape to earn his $18 million/year. I'm not suggesting that is a breach on contract in an enforceable sense, but it clearly violates an implicit understanding between person giving out $18 million/year and person accepting it.

Jones can be humble about having a bad year without saying, here, take the money back

I didn't say he couldn't be humble, I said his humility rings hollow.

2008-09-04 17:29:50
359.   Alex41592
Wow, we miss both Peavy and tall Chris Young at Petco. Probables include Cha Seung Baek, Shawn Estes and Josh Geer. Against Maddux, Kuroda and Lowe.
2008-09-04 17:30:08
360.   Bob Timmermann
Jones and the Dodgers didn't have any implicit agreements. They had a contract. It's all spelled out and exceedingly explicit.
2008-09-04 17:30:17
361.   D4P
BTW: I can't for the life of me see why anyone around here would be motivated to defend Andruw Jones or take his side in any:

1. way
2. shape
3. form

2008-09-04 17:31:56
362.   Bob Timmermann
Andruw Jones signed a legal contract. He's got the right to get paid what was agreed to. The fact that Andruw Jones was no good this year has nothing to do with the fact that he should get paid.
2008-09-04 17:32:57
363.   natepurcell
The project Elias player rankings at mlbtraderumors don't make sense for me.

Derek Lowe not a type A!?!?! I don't see it.

2008-09-04 17:34:37
364.   D4P
For the Xth time, I'm not talking about whether he was good or bad. I'm talking about his physical condition, which he has some degree of control over.

He's fat, and I wouldn't be surprised if his extra weight is contributing to his knee problems. Why is that OK? Why shouldn't we care about that?

2008-09-04 17:35:53
365.   dsfan
Just got around to reading the rankings of Dodgers minor leaguers. Well done, Canuck.

Didn't see Beyker Fructuoso on there. I would include him among the Top 20. Arm plus athleticism is why.

2008-09-04 17:36:42
366.   natepurcell
D4P is prejudice against fat people.
2008-09-04 17:36:51
367.   Bob Timmermann
If the Dodgers thought that Jones was out of shape and deliberately so, they could seek to abrogate his contract.

They haven't.

If the team doesn't care, I don't care. It's not my money. Andruw Jones didn't sign a contract with me.

2008-09-04 17:37:21
368.   Tripon
364 Two months of Manny?
2008-09-04 17:39:57
369.   dsfan
Jones' lack of conditioning is objectionable. Highly, But I doubt the practicality of a legal attempt to recoup money.
2008-09-04 17:40:27
370.   D4P
If the team doesn't care, I don't care. It's not my money

Of course it's not your money. But if you're a fan who wants your team to win, having your team waste a lot of resources on an FTOG can mean that they have fewer resources to allocate elsewhere.

And, as we saw earlier this year, it can mean that your team trades away prospects to save a few million bucks.

2008-09-04 17:41:13
371.   Andrew Shimmin
I don't object to Jones's waist line. I only care that he quit hitting.
2008-09-04 17:41:36
372.   regfairfield
363 Type A's:
C.C. Sabathia A 97.44897959
Brandon Webb A 93.96258503
Danny Haren A 92.43197279
Johan Santana A 92.00680272
Jake Peavy A 89.62585034
Cole Hamels A 88.60544218
Carlos Zambrano A 86.05442177
Tim Hudson A 83.58843537
Tim Lincecum A 82.14285714
Roy Oswalt A 81.20748299
Ted Lilly A 80.86734694
Aaron Cook A 80.44217687
Kyle Lohse A 77.12585034
Ben Sheets A 75.51020408
Joe Blanton A 74.31972789
Bronson Arroyo A 72.53401361
Chad Billingsley A 72.10884354
Oliver Perez A 71.68367347
John Maine A 70.74829932

Thanks to how screwy these categories are, this does make some sense. Lowe is only averaging 11.5 wins a year with a sub .500 win percentage and not many strikeouts. That can be enough to push him off the list.

2008-09-04 17:41:52
373.   D4P
But I doubt the practicality of a legal attempt to recoup money


2008-09-04 17:42:22
374.   D4P
I don't object to Jones's waist line. I only care that he quit hitting

You seem to imply that those are completely independent.

2008-09-04 17:42:39
375.   Bob Timmermann
And amazingly, this still doesn't bother me.
2008-09-04 17:43:03
376.   Andrew Shimmin
Baseball has a rich tradition of fat guys who could hit. It's possible that Jones specifically can only hit while not being fat, but I'm not willing to assume that.
2008-09-04 17:44:01
377.   natepurcell

Shouldn't innings pitched and ERA push him back up though?

2008-09-04 17:45:36
378.   KG16
371 - yeah, wow, I just looked at the numbers, scary just how bad Jones got at not hitting the ball. K/AB this year: .361; K/AB for his career: .222

that's some serious variance.

On the bright side for Jones, this will be the first year since 1996 in which he did not record 100 Ks.

2008-09-04 17:45:44
379.   regfairfield
Actually, it must be wrong. Lowe is better than Blanton in all those categories.
2008-09-04 17:47:11
380.   Andrew Shimmin
Does Lowe's ex-wife work for Elias?
2008-09-04 17:47:20
381.   D4P
And amazingly, this still doesn't bother me

I suppose if Jones stormed the field after the Dodgers beat the Nationals or something, he'd go directly to the obelisk.

2008-09-04 17:50:55
382.   KG16
I also expected Jones to have much better career numbers. I half expected him to be a potential Hall of Famer, but .259 career batting average, 1700 (or so) hits, and 370 home runs doesn't look very much like Hall bound numbers. Or is his defense enough to get him in?
2008-09-04 17:51:41
383.   KG16
380 - I would think the prospect of more alimony would work in Lowe's favor in that case.
2008-09-04 17:54:12
384.   underdog
365 "Didn't see Beyker Fructuoso on there. I would include him among the Top 20. Arm plus athleticism is why. "

Top 10 in names, that's for sure!

2008-09-04 17:54:33
385.   Bob Timmermann
I'm the Marshal Sam Gerard to D4P's Dr. Richard Kimble.
2008-09-04 17:59:47
386.   Icaros
How was Lowe a type-A when we signed him after an awful 5-plus ERA season, then becomes type-B after four seasons of sub-4 ERA?

If that's the system, it sucks.

2008-09-04 18:00:43
387.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
I thought Andruw gained 30 pounds specifically to improve his hitting (didn't he blame last year's performance on being underweight?). Gaining 30 pounds in an ofseason is no easy task. I'm sure Jones was working hard on his physique, just not in the traditional way. You can hate the results, but you can't fault the man's intentions.
2008-09-04 18:02:04
388.   Johnny Nucleo
327 At Spring Training this past March I was walking by one of the practice fields and saw a huge lineup of fans getting autographs from an older guy with a Dodgers cap I assumed was a crusty old former Dodger player. Then the Minotaur walked by just behind me and signed autographs for the two or three fans who recognized him.

I recognized Kershaw pretty much immediately. But I didn't realize the "crusty old Dodgers player" was Larry King until much later.

2008-09-04 18:02:39
389.   Tripon
Playoff chances: Dodgers 44.8%

Not bad at all.

2008-09-04 18:02:54
390.   D4P
Speaking of "The Fugitive":

Has anyone seen the French film "Tell No One"...?

2008-09-04 18:04:14
391.   Tripon
387 Everyone assumed that Andruw Jones was going to add more muscle to his body. Nobody thought it was 30 pounds of fat. Forget his intentions, he just came into spring training overweight and there was no excuse for it.
2008-09-04 18:04:43
392.   Bob Timmermann
In 1983, Fernando Valenzuela lost a noticeable amount of weight and struggled at the beginning of the season. And L.A. papers were full of stories about why it was such a bad idea that Fernando lost weight.

Or it could have just been that Fernando Valenzuela got off to a bad start that year.

2008-09-04 18:05:50
393.   regfairfield
386 They cut down on the number of type As a few years ago.
2008-09-04 18:11:43
394.   Icaros

I know, but an update to the system should recognize the worthlessness of the win stat.

2008-09-04 18:15:51
395.   LAT
Lotta fancy lawyer talk goin' on here. I hate lawyer talk. (Heck, I hate lawyers.)

That being said, assuming that causation between Jones play and his weight could be established (which I doubt), the problem here is Ned not Jones. Either Jones was overweight when he signed with the Dodgers and Ned should have realized this or Ned should have required a weight clause in the contract to avoid the problem. Ned turned a blind eye to many aspects regarding Jones; weight, injury, declining numbers, etc.

As for returning salary, if anyone should be giving back its Frank. Of course this is all hypothetical but if Jones were to return his salary to the Dodgers shouldn't the Dodgers return that money (and more) to the fans. Frank has nearly doubled ticket prices since owning the team and continues to put a declining product on the filed. Even if the Dodgers make it to the post season, they will be only marginally above .500 and the worst team in the playoffs. Jones will keep his money. Frank will keep his too. The questions is will I keep mine and give up my season tickets.

2008-09-04 18:17:17
396.   Tripon

Plaxico Burress gets 5 years/35 million? Isn't this a steal compared to what a baseball player can get? Compared to Silva's $4 years/48 million, or JP's 5 year/$45 million, or Gil Meche's 5 year/$55 million, or Guillen's 3 year/$36 million, Plax should be thinking he's playing in the wrong sport.

2008-09-04 18:17:42
397.   Bob Timmermann
Hooray for common sense!
2008-09-04 18:19:48
398.   Icaros

Quit talking tough, you know you couldn't give up your tickets. Just like I'm not going to stop paying an extra ~$200 a year to watch every game on cable.


And football contracts aren't guaranteed. Only the signing bonus.

2008-09-04 18:27:37
399.   regfairfield
395 Unless you're a 400 pound lineman, I really don't know why you'd choose football as a sport to go pro in.
2008-09-04 18:29:00
400.   D4P
What about 400 pound centerfielders...?
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-09-04 18:29:54
401.   LAT
398. I am giving it serious consideration. Including me I used have 8 guys in my group and everyone wanted 10 games. Now I have about 5 guys and I wind up with 32 games. Every year someone drops out and it becoming more difficult to find replacements. I really like my seats but its just getting too expensive. Now if the Dodgers go deep into the payoffs and I could sell some of those tickets to off-set next year's seats I probably would.
2008-09-04 18:34:42
402.   Tripon
400 400 pound pitchers. Nobody cares what you weigh if you can throw a fast heater.
2008-09-04 18:35:07
403.   Andrew Shimmin
Not to go as wobbly on Juan Pierre as regfairfield has been, but I felt a little bad for him that he was the punchline to Angel Berroa's joke in the clip that everybody liked.
2008-09-04 18:38:19
404.   D4P
2008-09-04 18:39:27
405.   Icaros

Perhaps you could retire one of your magic pens in his honor. They probably weigh the same.

2008-09-04 18:46:55
406.   Andrew Shimmin
404- I'm saying.

405- I didn't feel that bad.

2008-09-04 18:52:05
407.   Icaros
I like how Andrew calls it "the clip that everybody liked," as if he was above liking it (or liking anything).
2008-09-04 18:54:39
408.   Johnny Nucleo
400 About a year old, but a potential career option for men who weigh over 1000 pounds in professional sports has been explored...

2008-09-04 18:56:39
409.   LAT
402. And the thread comes full circle to the orginal topic.
2008-09-04 18:56:39
410.   Andrew Shimmin
I model my life after Michiko Kakutani.
2008-09-04 19:02:14
411.   Johnny Nucleo
409 Seeing Broxton on first base next to Prince Fielder a few weeks ago was pretty darn funny.
2008-09-04 19:03:57
412.   Terry A
Real men use Zebra F-402 pens.

And nothing else.

2008-09-04 19:04:22
413.   Icaros

Had to look that one up. Sounds like a pleasant person.

2008-09-04 19:07:50
414.   Jacob Burch
True people use G2 and Uniball!

I must become PC after Molly revealed her love for the G2.

I'm hoping to get some sort of group for season tickets next year, and/or just get my own. I won't be that rich by any measurable rate, but I still would like to go to games that don't necessarily come my way through generous DT posters.

2008-09-04 19:11:10
415.   Andrew Shimmin
412- Never tried it. It looks like it might be too heavy for flipping. And it doesn't come in a .5 or even smaller (I just found out that Pilot makes a G2 refill with a .38!) tip. The thinner point helps mask how awful my handwriting is.
2008-09-04 19:15:18
416.   fanerman
Wow. I only write with pens that are junk.
2008-09-04 19:17:05
417.   D4P
What kind of crazy characters still write by hand these days, anyway?
2008-09-04 19:19:35
418.   Tripon
417 People who drink milk from bags.
2008-09-04 19:24:05
419.   The Trolley Dodger
Uniball Micros are the ones for me. Loved the G2s, but they wouldn't dry fast enough for me.
2008-09-04 19:33:35
420.   Alex41592
Yankees score 5 in the ninth but fall short as the Rays win 7-5. Wheeler with a one pitch save.
2008-09-04 19:54:19
421.   Jacob Burch
419 I have the opposite results in terms of dry-time with G2 and Uniball Micros. G2s have a history of drying very quickly, where as I use the micros for more "delicate" paper writing (Journals, etc).

And the Scorebook has arrived! Huzzah!

2008-09-04 19:55:00
422.   Icaros
Are the Rays drawing at home yet?
2008-09-04 20:15:29
423.   LAT
422. Depends, are they using a G2 or a Uniball?

(Sorry couldn't stop myself)

2008-09-04 20:22:41
424.   scareduck
I used to use Uniball Micros all but exclusively when I was at college for homework and the like. I have a box full of them purchased just after I graduated from college, ca. 1988.

I put one in my shirt pocket, a brand new shirt I got at the Nordstrom's half-yearly men's sale.

The damn thing exploded, ruining my shirt.

I've held a grudge ever since.

2008-09-04 20:26:53
425.   Tripon
Kitchen Nightmares is on Fox right now. Gordon Rasmey is an angry angry man.
2008-09-04 20:29:13
426.   The Trolley Dodger
424 425 Little known fact: Gordon Ramsey would explode if put in a shirt pocket.

Actually, he'd explode even if just put in a shirt.

Or near a shirt.

Or just because.

2008-09-04 20:34:11
427.   Jacob Burch
Is the best time for season ticket purchasing (Or bugging people in groups to get in on the deal) Near the "2-for-1" period?
2008-09-04 20:51:00
428.   scareduck
357 - He agreed to play baseball, I couldn't imagine that he agreed to play baseball at an All Star level or even an above average level (mainly because his agent and/or lawyer should be fired for allowing such a provision in the contract).

So far, I'm having a hard time finding it, bu I believe this is also against the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

2008-09-04 20:54:16
429.   LAT
424. Nothing leaks likes a Pilot Precise V7 Rolling Ball. Had three of them blow up in my briefcase on a plane not too long ago. Don't know if it was cabin presuure or what but they are a mess.
2008-09-04 20:58:30
430.   LAT
Pen Thoughts. One must usually wait until the dead of the off-season for such stimulating talk.
2008-09-04 21:02:38
431.   Jacob Burch
430 There is a twenty+ reply on my of my friend's blogs on the subject of "What is your favorite pen?" written yesterday. Just a hip, hip topic.

Also probable lull before all sorts of hectics awaiting the Dodgers and Diamondbacks.

2008-09-04 21:09:13
432.   underdog
Pen Thoughts!

You'd think it was an off night for the Dodgers or something.

My cats keep batting all my pens into some secret hiding place in the dark recesses of my house so I keep having to buy new ones. It's a fun game we play.

Btw, remind me not to play goalie again, even if the keeper doesn't show up, as happened tonight. I split the job, and we only gave up 1 goal (I gave up none), so there's no shame. Just a lot of deep, deep pain, and possibly some internal bleeding.

2008-09-04 21:19:59
433.   underdog
Someone needs to tell Diamond Leung to stop posting those Troy from WV videos. We get the drift.
2008-09-04 21:22:46
434.   The Trolley Dodger
430 Careful: Moleskine Thoughts can't be far off. ;)
2008-09-04 21:24:17
435.   Andrew Shimmin
431- No link? Must not be a very good friend. . .
2008-09-04 21:24:36
436.   Jacob Burch
The Journals I mention that I use Uniballs for are Moleskins, in fact. Hurray!
2008-09-04 21:26:51
437.   Icaros
TfWV seems like the type of person who will end up assassinating someone to impress Jodie Foster.
2008-09-04 21:27:39
438.   The Trolley Dodger
436 And the one I had the G2 problems with was also a Moleskine. LOL!

I am beginning to have a consumer moral crisis over carrying around a Moleskine and Hipster PDA simultaneously.

2008-09-04 21:46:51
439.   Jacob Burch
438 I'm not sold on their smaller journals, but the medium size ones proves unmatched for things I plan on keeping a while (my common book--which must come back in style, my poker journal). But as you noted, I had a terrible time using G2 with the thicker paper, so I switchd to Uniball--as long as I'm writing on the page for more than a minute, it dries in time.
2008-09-04 22:15:01
440.   jasonungar07
You guys are talking about Pens. Classic.
2008-09-04 22:20:28
441.   Bumsrap
If the Dodgers can't get their money back because Jones is fat, can they get money back because Pierre isn't?

There was a time when I thought a good umpire had to be fat.

2008-09-04 22:21:18
442.   Bumsrap
I like fat pens.
2008-09-04 22:24:50
443.   Bumsrap
I only post now in case I need to prove I stayed up this late. It was a long long evening with CNN and MSNBC.
2008-09-04 22:39:31
444.   kinbote
Since some of you are taking stabs at next year's roster, this is what I've been envisioning:

SS--Furcal (one-year deal)
3B--Blake (two-year deal)

SP--Park (two-year deal)

Anyone think there's a chance we move Kuo back into the rotation?

2008-09-04 22:49:51
445.   underdog
444 - I think the Dodgers will be blessed next year with some non-scrub options for the 5th slot for once. So, yes, it could be Kuo, or if they decide to keep him in the pen where he's been so effective, it could be Scott Elbert, or James McDonald. (I think those two will get a legit shot.) And depending on Penny's health, they could bring in someone else. My fantasy is to sign Sabathia, but I don't see them affording him unless they manage to dump some of the other contract bloat. But they'll have a good staff, even without CC.

now back to Pen Thoughts.

"Take the pen!"
"I cannot take it!"
"Take the pen!"
"Are you sure?"

2008-09-04 22:54:11
446.   Eric Stephen
I fenced against a man wielding only a pen once. I beat him handily, really shattering that myth.
2008-09-04 23:00:29
447.   KG16
446 - he obviously didn't know how to use the pen right.
2008-09-04 23:12:21
448.   Tripon
Way I see it.

SS--Furcal (one-year deal)


Relief: Kuo, Wade, TronTron, Elbert, Scott Proctor, Eric Stults.

Bench: D. Young, Berroa, Ellis, and Aberu, Paul Xavier.

2008-09-04 23:12:50
449.   Tripon
Wondering, can Lambo play 3rd?
2008-09-04 23:18:31
450.   Jacob Burch
Born: August 11,1988
Height: 6-3 Weight: Bats: Left Throws: Left
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2008-09-04 23:19:53
451.   The Trolley Dodger
447 Pen bull as opposed to bullpen?
2008-09-04 23:32:30
452.   Tripon
Does anyone know what the heck happened to Tony Aberu? Its like he fell off the face of the earth.
2008-09-04 23:37:14
453.   Tripon
Injury report: Kent says he's looking to play by month's end. JP's back is better, and both Saito and Furcal are going to get rehab games with the 66's during their playoff runs.

2008-09-04 23:43:26
454.   sporky
I made the best of the off-night by gutting my 3+ year old laptop and cleaning/vacuuming the innards. The CPU temperature dropped about 10-13 degrees. Amazing.
2008-09-04 23:57:57
455.   trainwreck
The Brian Urlacher Old Spice commercial is the greatest commercial ever.
2008-09-05 00:09:15
456.   Jacob Burch
455 His acting job at the end sort of ruins it for me, but funny nevertheless. All of the Bruce Campbell Spots (and a not-quite-SFW Ice Cream Cone one on youtube) have all been solid.
2008-09-05 00:14:32
457.   Louis in SF
The lineup questions for next year are really intriguing, but of the few things I think are set:
1.)Kuo staying in the pen, I think Torre really likes him there and wants a set bullpen.

2.) Martin catches despite what Petter Gammons says

3.) Manny comes back because McCourt wants him back-how much we have to overspend is the big question

4.) Dodgers make a serious play for Casey Blake, 20 homers from a 3rd baseman is not to be sneased at, his versatility is also worth something.

5.) The Dodgers will not be a serious player for CC, because of the price tag and their efforts to use that money for Manny.

2008-09-05 01:14:19
458.   fanerman
454 Congratulations! And all you missed was an enlightening conversation about pens.
2008-09-05 05:35:48
459.   StolenMonkey86
448 - You only listed 24 players - I guess the title player of the post was implied. :)

But are we really certain Saito will retire, because he is just becoming arb eligible.

2008-09-05 07:07:59
460.   Disabled List
After seeing the fans/media reaction to Manny's arrival, I think McCourt will break the bank for him. Four years, $100 million is not out of the realm of possibility. Only if Manny goes somewhere else will the Dodgers make a play for CC. In a perfect world, the Dodgers would go after both, but all that money tied up to Schmierredruw will prevent that. Thanks, Ned.

I wonder what it will take to re-sign Blake. He just turned 35, so he may be holding out for his last big money multi-year contract. I could see him pushing for a 3-year deal, worth around $10 million a year. I doubt very seriously he signs a one-year contract with any team other than the Indians.

Furcal is a tougher call. After two seasons ruined by injuries, if he gets a multi-year offer from any team, he'll take it. And considering that he's only 30 and is very productive when healthy, I think there's a strong chance some team will take a flyer on him. I do hope the Dodgers re-sign him, but it will take more than a one-year offer to do the trick.

Penny's option will be picked up. Maybe Nomar comes back on a one-year deal as a utility infielder. Adios to Kent, Lowe, Beimel, Maddux, Park and maybe Saito. The Dodgers are going to have a little bit of rebuilding to do this offseason.

2008-09-05 08:04:44
461.   cargill06
Why do people write of Saito for next year whne doing their roster projections for next year?
2008-09-05 08:24:46
462.   ibleedbloo
And why do people keep including Nomar as a maybe? He needs to be as far away from this team as possible. Let someone else deal with unproductiveness and his multiple DL stays.
2008-09-05 08:29:21
463.   Disabled List
Nomar is a maybe to return only because it's doubtful any other team would really want him. As long as he's a utility IF on a relatively cheap contract, and the Dodgers don't count on him to be an integral part of the offense, it wouldn't be so terrible to have him come back.

He makes a mean carne asada, after all.

2008-09-05 08:38:42
464.   Jon Weisman
2008-09-05 08:42:26
465.   MC Safety
I hate expensive, oft injured, and when he's not injured he's crap players. Atrocious defense, sub 300 obp, waste of a roster spot. Anything else I'm missing?

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