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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Define 'Sore'
2008-09-08 09:38
by Jon Weisman

From Jill Painter of the Daily News:

"We had a meeting, and this is the time of year that if you're sore you've still got to go," Broxton said.

Let's not forget in the heat of battle that "sore" can be a warning sign of greater trouble.

Comments (207)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-09-08 11:05:42
1.   zappala
It of course all comes down to whether Jones is actually healthy (as you point out) ... but I'd take him over Sweeney as a pinch hitter any day.
2008-09-08 11:08:11
2.   Dark Horse
Sure, if the alternative is Sweeney. Otherwise--and even then--including Andruw seems indefensible.
2008-09-08 11:08:15
3.   vegasblueman
1 - Any day prior to 2008, maybe.
2008-09-08 11:09:28
4.   UVaDodger
Call me crazy, but I still believe that Jones isn't going to always be as bad as he was this year. I have more faith in him than in Sweeney.

That said, I still believe he is worse than our starting outfielders.

2008-09-08 11:09:45
5.   Disabled List
I don't like talk of playoff rosters this far out. There's still 19 games left, and we're only 1 game up in the loss column.

Enumerating. Chickens. Unhatched.

2008-09-08 11:10:07
6.   UVaDodger
4 Way, way worse than our starting outfielders.
2008-09-08 11:12:43
7.   Tripon
Kemp has been fairly quiet this stretch. Its partly why he's batting sixth now. Maybe Torre's going to give Jones a couple of starts down the stretch if Jones can handle it offensively.

And yes, we'd all go apoplectic if Torre actually did it, but Torre might want to see if Jones still has it, and the top 5 or 6 spots are assured with a line up of Martin, ethier, Manny, Loney, Blake, and DeWitt. Stashing Jones should just create a little larger black hole with Berroa and the pitcher.

Eh, I don't know. Its just as likely that Jones never see the light of day again.

2008-09-08 11:14:30
8.   FirstMohican
Dodger fans are used to lights out closers in recent years. Saito gave up only 1 ER run in the entire month and ended the year with a 2 ERA. The last two years Broxton's been great, but not at that Saito or Gagne level.

Besides, you've got to hate someone now that Druw isn't playing and Pierre's primarily on the bench. Didn't Laker fans focus their hate on Luke Walton once Kwame was traded???

2008-09-08 11:14:40
9.   Alex41592
I wouldn't worry too much about Jones considering he can't play in the field.
2008-09-08 11:21:22
10.   Jon Weisman
5 - I agree. I thought twice about posting it.
2008-09-08 11:22:19
11.   oregon dodger
That was kind of my point in the last post. It's not that I want to hate Broxton, I just don't think he's completely suited for the closer role.

And it worries me for the stretch run.

2008-09-08 11:22:24
12.   Dark Horse
5 - That's the bigger truth. No playoff roster chat yet, please. This race is anything but decided.
2008-09-08 11:27:01
13.   ucladodger
228 last thread

You cant be serious in that you'd want Hoffman or Torres over Broxton. Hoffman gives up almost a hit an inning with an ERA of over 4 and an OPS against of .695. Torres does have that nice 2.4 ERA, but doesnt strike out anybody and his numbers are so much better than anything he's ever done before hin his career. Broxton is perfectly fine as a closer and worlds above those two. Maybe its the eyes or the mouth positioning or the cheekbones of the other two that make them superior, but as for plain pitching ability, Broxton is superior.

2008-09-08 11:28:46
14.   Jon Weisman
Apparently, this is for real. Tanyon Sturtze is currently with the Dodgers under the title of "bullpen catcher."

2008-09-08 11:29:29
15.   FirstMohican
11 - Just to be clear, I'm not saying he is unsuited for a closing role. I'm also not sure if there are many pitchers out there who are as good as Broxton who wouldn't be suited for it.
2008-09-08 11:30:29
16.   Tripon
Why even have 40 man rosters? Let every team carry as many players as they want!
2008-09-08 11:30:47
17.   Daniel Zappala
14 That's pretty amazing.
2008-09-08 11:32:29
18.   vegasblueman
13 - I agree his list was a joke. (No offense, Oregon, you were backed into a corner.) And I see your point, UCLAdodger. But don't entirely discount a closer's physical presence and demeanor over the course of a career.

By the way, the best closer in the NL this year is probably Mr. Beach Boy himself, Brian Wilson.

2008-09-08 11:34:35
19.   MrCourt123
Playoff roster or regular season roster, it doesn't matter to me. There is only ONE instance in which I could imagine Jones getting any at-bats or, dare I say, time in the outfield. If (and I know I don't want to get ahead of myself here) the Dodgers have clinched the division with a few games to play I can see giving Jones some time in order to rest someone. To me, that would be his last chance to prove anything. Not that he really deserves any more than his current 205 AB to rectify his abysmal numbers.

From what I have seen this year there is not a single situation where I could see using Jones over other people on the roster as beneficial. Not one.

2008-09-08 11:34:40
20.   Tripon

BP has a Clayton Kershaw article, but I don't have a BP account. :(

2008-09-08 11:35:39
21.   regfairfield
18 The guy that's worse than Broxton at everything?
2008-09-08 11:37:17
22.   Jon Weisman
20 - It's an article on the Dodgers, and it says about what I've been saying.
2008-09-08 11:38:03
23.   oregon dodger
I know Hoffman is past his prime, but he has the experience and the craftiness.

Is it indefensible to say that I'd rather have Saito than Broxton in the closer's role?

I never said anything about doubting his ability. I know he has the skill set. I see him get shaky when the pressure mounts. Not a characteristic I like in my closer.

2008-09-08 11:40:33
24.   Tripon
Hoffman is also the same man who blew a save costing his Padres a chance to win the wildcard and play in the postseason against those hot Rockies.

Seriously, Hoffman? HOFFMAN?

2008-09-08 11:42:25
25.   vegasblueman
21 - Are we going to be rational or overly accusatory and emotional?

Broxton - 3.36 ERA, 13 saves, 20 save opportunities, K's 81, BB's 22, 290 lbs.

Wilson - 4.04 ERA, 37 saves, 40 save opportunities, K's 60, BB's 25, 196 lbs.

Are you sure he is worse at everything?

2008-09-08 11:43:53
26.   Bob Timmermann
Brad Lidge and his 34 saves in 34 opportunities scoffs at Brian Wilson.
2008-09-08 11:45:12
27.   Jon Weisman
23 - You need to understand that people are not reacting to you saying that you like Saito better. People are reacting to you saying your confidence in Broxton was a 2. You didn't even start talking about Saito until later. So don't get all defensive without at least understanding what's prompting the disagreement.
2008-09-08 11:45:22
28.   ucladodger

So who would you rather have - a young guy who you perceive as shakey, but gets the job done or an old, experienced vet but is a far worse pitcher? Give me the guy who gets the job done. The boxscore doesnt show nerves or anxiety of the fans, all it shows is results. And really, how can anybody tell what a pitcher is feeling? We're not inside his head, we have no idea what Jon is thinking. For someone to assume that he cannot handle the pressure by just looking at him is sort of insulting.

I'd rather have a healthy Saito also because when he was healthy he was one of the top 3 closers in baseball. Takashi was absolutely brilliant, and he and Gagne have spoiled all Dodger fans when it comes to closing. Ask Met fans or DBack fans if they would take Broxton.

2008-09-08 11:45:52
29.   Tripon
Wilson = 106+ ERA

Broxton = 132+ ERA, and Broxton's two's years younger at 24.

2008-09-08 11:46:21
30.   Jon Weisman
25 - Broxton spent half the season as an eighth-inning pitcher that allowed him to pick up save opportunities he couldn't possibly save, that he could only blow, because Saito would get the save.
2008-09-08 11:46:23
31.   cargill06
25 Broxton is 48% more man than Wilson. 'Nuff said.
2008-09-08 11:49:10
32.   regfairfield
25 So....Broxton is better at everything? I don't get what you're trying to prove there.
2008-09-08 11:50:34
33.   ucladodger

It isnt fair to Broxton to use his blown saves. Many of those came in the 8th inning role where it is possilbe to accrue a blown save but not collect a save. It would be better to add up his holds/saves and then use the blown saves. He has 26 holds/saves and 7 bown saves. It also is easier to blow a save as a setup guy than as a closer where you start the 9th with nobody on. Broxton "blew" a save this year where he probably allowed an inherited runner to gtie the game, but threw 1.2 innings and allowed only 1 walk while striking out 3. And yes, Broxton is a far sbetter pitcher than Brian Wilson in every way shape or form.

2008-09-08 11:51:00
34.   vegasblueman
26 - Well said.

29 - Would you rather have a better +ERA or 37 saves?

I think we can all agree that we are lucky to have Broxton. Having said that, he is a work in progress and we all hope that he continues to improve.

2008-09-08 11:51:37
35.   cargill06
33 He also blew a save due to error.
2008-09-08 11:54:51
36.   ucladodger

The thing is, he ISNT a work in progress. He is a terrifc pitcher having a "down year" with a 133 ERA+! and I'd rather have the guy with with begtter numbers rather than a guy with more saves (a stupid statistic in its own right) because the guy with the better numbers is a better pitcher with the ability to put up more 0's than the worse pitcher.

2008-09-08 11:56:46
37.   Zak
34 Better +ERA every day, every year. You cannot be serious? You'd rather have 37 saves over a significantly better pitcher. Way significantly better.
2008-09-08 12:00:50
38.   vegasblueman
36 - I am certainly not arguing in favor of Wilson over Broxton. I was just fanning the flames from Oregon Dodger's list in the last post. The point about Broxton's 'blown saves' is valid. He has obviously done better than 13 out of 20.

But I stick to my guns about him being a work in progress. His fastball is fast. But too often this season, it has been right down the plate with no movement on it. I think he will improve upon this as he continues to pitch (or 'progress,' if you will.)

2008-09-08 12:04:00
39.   GoBears
Folks, we're talking past each other. Unless and until oregon and (it looks like) vegasblueman can be persuaded that the save is a horrible statistic and an even horribler measure of quality, there will never be a meeting of the minds on this question. If one believes that saves are a measure of quality, then the arguments in favor of Wilson, Lidge, et al. are not unreasonable. It is the assumption that is the problem.
2008-09-08 12:08:23
40.   Alex41592
Billy Wagner to have Tommy John surgery. Out until 2010 season.

2008-09-08 12:11:20
41.   vegasblueman
How about Manny and Ethier!!!!

I don't care about saves (I am bitter that spazzy-Mcgee-K-rod is going to break that stupid record with cherry-picked opportunities,) but I do care about wins. And a good way to get a win is to have a lead late in the game and have your bullpen hold the lead. I don't care how it's done, I don't care who does it.

We have a great bullpen. I like how we stack up against anybody in the NL except for maybe the Cubs.

Things are good in DodgerLand right now. No more negative from me.

2008-09-08 12:12:32
42.   Zak
39 Maybe I am misunderstanding something year. Lidge has been really good this year. I think he's been better than Broxton. Why is he lumped in with Wilson who has been pretty average?
2008-09-08 12:12:41
43.   GoBears
In the previous thread, Bob Melvin was quoted as follows:

"You can say bounces haven't gone our way and they had a few jam-shot hits," said D-backs manager Bob Melvin about a team that came into the series with a 1 1/2-game lead. "But when you're going good, those things don't happen. That's baseball."

As a statement of correlation, that might be right, but if it's meant as a causal statement (as it usually is) then I think it's backwards.


But when those things don't happen, you're going good. That's baseball."

2008-09-08 12:13:26
44.   GoBears
41. That's the ticket!
2008-09-08 12:16:01
45.   GoBears
39. Yeah, I just threw in Lidge because there was a reference to his 0 blown saves (albeit a sarcastic reference). I honestly don't have any idea how he's really doing this year, as I haven't looked as his stats. I'll take your word for it that he's having a great year. My point there would just be that 36-for-36 in save opportunities (or whatever) is not sufficient evidence to conclude that he's having a great year.
2008-09-08 12:18:40
46.   Bob Timmermann
I only brought up Lidge because he's on my fantasy team.

And I wanted MORE saves. MORE! MORE! MORE!

I want to beat my brother. I've already beaten my nephew. And Sam DC's son.

2008-09-08 12:25:10
47.   oregon dodger
I'm not trying to naysay here either. Jon makes a good point that I should have given better context for my comment. I wasn't looking to start an argument or dig my heels in. I hope I don't come off as defensive.

My point is simply this. I like broxton, I think he's a good pitcher. I loved him in the setup role. He makes me nervous in the ninth and I hope that doesn't come back to haunt us in a critical situation down the stretch.

Point me at all the statistics you want, with two runners on in the top of the ninth yesterday I was sweating bullets. I'm glad he (and the rest of the team) pulled through and I celebrate our victory with all of you.

2008-09-08 12:25:59
48.   Zak
45 Gotcha! I was just confused whether I was missing something that you were looking at.
2008-09-08 12:30:53
49.   Jon Weisman
47 - That's cool. And I think I got a little defensive myself, so it goes around.
2008-09-08 12:31:38
50.   JoeyP
I wonder if posters get worn out from commenting like players get worn out from playing?

Anyone feeling commenting fatigue?

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-09-08 12:32:30
51.   Reddog
Starting a 10 game road trip, I really think the Dodgers need to pick up another game in the standings tonight. We need to beat the Pads, and Lincecum needs to beat Arizona.
2008-09-08 12:33:25
52.   underdog
The topic of this post - Broxton, soreness - made me go "Uh oh" but hopefully he remains healthy and hopefully we also get Saito back soon. Because I like them both and that is one heckuva two-headed monster in the 'pen. Can you imagine any team looking forward to facing a 7-8-9 of Kuo-Broxton+Saito (whichever order they come in)? Not to mention Beimel, the mostly still reliable Park, Proctor (yes, Proctor) and maybe even Elbert?

I won't talk playoff rosters yet at all, but will just say I can't imagine any contending team with better 'pen depth than that, if Saito does come back healthy and effective.

2008-09-08 12:33:39
53.   old dodger fan
46 Have you stopped beating your nephew?
2008-09-08 12:34:12
54.   underdog
50 I am a little. I even sprained a finger this weekend and had to take some time off from posting. At first I was afraid to tell my trainer about it and commented through the pain.
2008-09-08 12:34:16
55.   heyblue
Long time reader, first time posting (I used to post a long time ago under the screen name "fernandomania" but I forgot my password and it seemed easier just to start over...anyway...) I logged in just to let everyone know that I have great faith in the Dodgers the rest of the way out. My daughter, Eva-Marie Rose, was born just before game time on Saturday August 30th and the Dodgers haven't lost since. This could hardly be coincidence. That is all.
2008-09-08 12:35:20
56.   Ian Capilouto
Hey guys, this question is off topic, but can anyone tell me a good website that has the guitar chords for songs. I guess I am asking for a website with charts. I need to learn a couple of Beatles songs and sing along type things for a party I am going to soon. Thanks.
2008-09-08 12:35:40
57.   Zak
47 You do make some good points, but I do feel that you are harsher on Broxton just because he is the closer right now. There are simply not that many better closers in the NL or the majors than Broxton. I'd say 10 or less, but don't attack me on that one.

Anyway, my point would be, that you are a fan just like me. And you give me anyone on the mound, anyone, no matter how good, if the division is on the line, and we're protecting a slim lead and the other team has runners on base, I would be nervous. That's not a reflection on Broxton, but on us as fans. We invest a lot in teams we root for, but for those last outs in the ninth, we are powerless and another human being, no matter how good, seems to be in control of the game. So, it's normal to feel nervous, think the worst, see fear in others' faces that might be in our gut, or something along those lines.

All that being said, I would trust Broxton in those situations. Broxton does not have the gaudy save totals of pitchers who have pithced ninth innings all season, but how many sticky situations has he bailed the Dodgers out in the eight inning? You could argue that Saito's numbers look as good as they do because he's got a set up man who cleans up the messes others have made so Saito can mostly just start with a fresh ninth inning.

Also, it is not wrong to say Broxton is a work in progress. But that should not imply that he is not already a very good ML pitcher. Broxton is young and still learning a lot of things about pitching. But you could say that about Billingsley too and he is among the top 10-15 pitchers in the NL already.

Anyway, not trying to argue or attack you. I actually understand your point and often feel the fears you do in the later innings. But those fears should not be a reflection on Broxton's abilities or on him being the closer.

2008-09-08 12:35:57
58.   old dodger fan
55 Congratulations, and welcome back.
2008-09-08 12:38:09
59.   vegasblueman
55 - Congrats! And let's hope the new good luck charm keeps working tonight.
2008-09-08 12:39:53
60.   Linkmeister
56 Google {song name tabs}.

Let's not throw Broxton out the window. There aren't and never have been a lot of Riveras or Gagnes (when he was great) or even Sutters or Gossages or Eckersleys (we do remember an instance of Eck failing spectacularly, don't we?). Broxton's doing quite well, even though he's shown tendencies similar to Don "Two-Pack" Stanhouse once in a while.

2008-09-08 12:40:36
61.   CeyHey10
53 As a matter of principle, I think that Bob should cease beating his relatives. You've gotta watch those quiet library types...
2008-09-08 12:42:11
62.   Neal Pollack
Broxton hasn't been perfect, and definitely not as good as Saito, but I don't break out into a cold sweat when he takes the mound. If we have to go into the postseason with him as closer, I'll take my chances.
2008-09-08 12:42:50
63.   Ian Capilouto
60 Yeah I already have a few but they aren't very good.
2008-09-08 12:43:22
64.   underdog
55 That's awesome! I think Eva-Marie needs a second middle name, "Blue," just to thank her for the luck. :-) May it continue, but more importantly, may her own life be filled with good luck and health, too.
2008-09-08 12:44:21
65.   bhsportsguy
56 I have no idea if this is right but try here.

2008-09-08 12:45:52
66.   CeyHey10
40 Ergo, K-Rod to the Mets this offseason? If he seeks highest bidder, I'm guessing this seals it.
2008-09-08 12:46:35
67.   trainwreck
2008-09-08 12:46:49
68.   gpellamjr
What I'm really worried about is, who is going to be our DH in the World Series?
2008-09-08 12:47:29
69.   Zach the Ripper


2008-09-08 12:47:51
70.   regfairfield
68 Pierre. Sadly he might be the best option.
2008-09-08 12:49:57
71.   overkill94
52 You forgot CWade! With his emergence we can use Beimel purely as a LOOGy and still have plenty of guys to pitch the late innings.
2008-09-08 12:51:32
72.   overkill94
68 Kent? Considering that would be a month and a half down the line, I'd assume he'd be ready by then. Nomar's another option while Pierre would probably be my third choice.
2008-09-08 12:51:40
73.   fanerman
68 Talk about unhatched chicken enumeration...
2008-09-08 12:51:48
74.   Ian Capilouto
65 69

Thanks a lot guys! Much appreciated.

2008-09-08 12:53:20
75.   underdog
71 D'oh! Major D'oh. I knew I was forgetting someone crucial. Thank God for Cory Wade this season.
2008-09-08 12:54:23
76.   Linkmeister
56 Ok, try this one (ultimate guitar tabs above gave me a list of guitar stores in my neighborhood):

2008-09-08 12:54:34
77.   underdog
Kent would be a good DH. We don't have to worry about his range at 2nd and if healthy I feel he can still hit. I mean, if the Dodgers ever need a DH again, you know, like, next season, when they do interleague again, or whenever, and stuff.
2008-09-08 12:57:09
78.   Johnny Nucleo
60 Let's not throw Broxton out the window

You'd need at least three or four very burly men in order to do that. And a really big window.

2008-09-08 12:58:18
79.   Ian Capilouto
76 Awesome. I have found what I needed when I compare the recordings to the charts.
2008-09-08 12:58:31
80.   berkowit28
68 70 Well now, that all depends. If Furcal comes back in some shape or form, either he or Berroa would be available. Or maybe Kent or DeWitt. Or maybe Nomar. We would have a certain depth if all these injured players recover enough to bat and/or field.
2008-09-08 13:00:14
81.   dodgerstang
I think Nomar would be the DH against LHP and Sweeney against RHP, assuming Berroa continues to play well. Kent another option if his body can handle it.

Speaking of Dodger DHs, any way we can claim Olmaedo for our upcoming series against the Pirates?

2008-09-08 13:00:53
82.   sporky
68 Take it back! Take it back!
2008-09-08 13:08:27
83.   cargill06
LOL, Ireland is suggesting Manny should win NL MVP
2008-09-08 13:09:28
84.   Linkmeister
79 If you've got a permanent need for Beatles charts/tabs, this songbook looks like it would be a good addition to your library:

The advantage is that the charts are in the same key as the originals.

I own some old songbooks that I purchased in Japan, which makes for interesting English translations of the lyrics. The music's right, but the words!

2008-09-08 13:11:20
85.   Bob Timmermann
The radio guy or the entire country?
2008-09-08 13:11:54
86.   whodat807
With Wagner out and their bullpen in shambles, it sure looks like the road to the World Series goes through the NL Central, no?
2008-09-08 13:12:13
87.   Paul Scott
70 It would make more sense to DH Manny and play JP, but I agree as to who our "extra bat" will be.
2008-09-08 13:12:16
88.   KG16
78 - heh, I just had a picture of Andre the Giant (or similar big wrestler, though none were anywhere near Andre) in a battle royal.

0 - I think there's a difference between "sore" and "hurt". Sore is the cumulative effect of playing baseball everyday for 149 games (plus spring training). Hurt is something else. I think Broxton's point is that at this point, you have to play through soreness that you might take a day off for in June or July. Playing hurt, is different.

A lot of athletes see playing hurt as a noble act - sacrificing their own well being and health for the sake of the team. It's also somewhat selfish, I'll admit, the idea that the team can't survive without you. It's a balancing act, and that's where the coaching and training staffs have to weigh in.

2008-09-08 13:15:21
89.   Bob Timmermann
The Mets are somehow keeping it together and I think they are going to hold in the NL East.
2008-09-08 13:21:19
90.   old dodger fan
I love this place. A week ago we had buried the Dodgers and fired Ned. Now we're trying to figure out who our DH will be in the WS.
2008-09-08 13:22:43
91.   jasonungar07
I read this Brox quote last night at like 12:30, I have been gone all day and will catch up, but you know the Dodgers and Dodgers Thoughts consume you when you then bet yourself a million dollars Jon would make a point to post about it as you faded off to bed..
2008-09-08 13:33:09
92.   Disabled List
At the risk of violating my own warning from post 5 , I just want to say that the notion of Pierre as a DH is genius. Any AL team seeing that would be laughing so hard, they wouldn't be able to concentrate on the game.

Gotta get that psychological edge, man.

2008-09-08 13:34:37
93.   Paul Scott
90 I still want Ned fired, regardless of playoff record (if any).
2008-09-08 13:38:43
94.   Duranimal
2 Comments about Broxton

Too many people have the notion that big guys like Broxton can take more physical abuse than their peers. It was awful how frequently Broxton was used at the end of last year. If he had weighed just 200 lbs, my guess is that he would have been shut down in early September. I've wondered throughout the season if his use in 2007 has had an impact on him this year.

It seems to me that what's keeping Broxton from becoming a truly elite closer is that his fastball doesn't have any movement. With a little movement, he could throw nothing but fastballs, and he would be as good as anyone.

2008-09-08 13:39:02
95.   Wilbert Robinson
well in light of the last two weeks...I guess the only question that needs to be discussed now is whether or not Terry Tiffee should be invited to ride on the 2008 Los Angeles Dodgers World Chamionship Parade Float™.

I vote yes.

2008-09-08 13:39:46
96.   Jon Weisman
91 - Is that a good thing or a bad thing? :)
2008-09-08 13:40:44
97.   Zach the Ripper


It's actually

2008-09-08 13:43:21
98.   Eric Stephen
Tom Brady's left knee is "sore".
2008-09-08 13:43:27
99.   Jon Weisman
Houston pitcher Roy Oswalt and Los Angeles outfielder Andre Ethier have been named the National League Co-Players of the Week for the week ending September 7.

Oswalt posted a 2-0 record with a 0.00 earned run average and one shutout in leading the NL with 17.0 innings pitched. ...

2008-09-08 13:53:26
100.   UVaDodger
99 But what was their prize? A nice gift basket? An iPod?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-09-08 13:54:04
101.   Sean P

Hear, hear.

2008-09-08 13:54:53
102.   trainwreck
Remember that Large Hadron Collider rap video someone posted on here? Well, now that thing is actually going to be put to use this week and some think it could end the world.

2008-09-08 13:56:22
103.   Eric Stephen
From the MLB release:

Tourneau, the world's largest watch store, will award both Andre Ethier and Roy Oswalt with a luxury Swiss Timepiece, suitably engraved, in recognition of their accomplishments as Bank of America Presents the National League Player of the Week.

2008-09-08 14:00:04
104.   Jon Weisman
100 - I had the same question.
2008-09-08 14:02:07
105.   UVaDodger
103 Well, that explains why Either was hitting so well. He needed a new watch.
2008-09-08 14:03:35
106.   ToyCannon
I'd rather be talking about our postseason rosters in Sept then next years team. While the Mets are losing Wagner, we are gaining Saito. While the Diamondback Ace's are struggling ours are stepping up. While Zambrano gets shut down, and Harden is "rested", Billingsley and Lowe, rule the roost. While we have the two hottest hitters in baseball, the Brewers have an offensive offense.

Things will undoubtedly change between now and the start of the playoffs just like they changed in the last 9 days, but not since the Piazza days will we take the field with the best hitter in the playoffs. And this time it won't be with a tired catcher but a crazy left fielder.

2008-09-08 14:03:40
107.   UVaDodger
104 Great minds... ;)
2008-09-08 14:04:23
108.   Jon Weisman
What watch?
Ten watch.
Such watch?
2008-09-08 14:06:54
109.   Marty

What watch?
Ten watch.
Such much?

2008-09-08 14:07:22
110.   Jon Weisman
109 - Is it? My mistake.
2008-09-08 14:08:20
111.   jasonungar07
96 It's mid September so it's a good thing. Stuff still matters! I thought you showed restraint!
2008-09-08 14:09:06
112.   Disabled List
According to Gurnick's latest mailbag, some fans have apparently gotten over the non-claim on Adam Dunn, and are now wondering why the Dodgers didn't put in a waiver claim to keep AZ from acquiring David Eckstein.

Gurnick also likes the Dodgers' chances at keeping Furcal around for another season, saying that "it's clear he doesn't want to leave."

2008-09-08 14:18:26
113.   Eric Stephen
108 ,109
Is it sad that I had to look that up?
2008-09-08 14:21:06
114.   trainwreck
I did too and I own the movie and wrote a paper on it.
2008-09-08 14:22:51
115.   Eric Stephen
Sole possession of first place by two teams after tonight?
2008-09-08 14:23:52
116.   regfairfield
112 Since he's better than our current middle infielders, it's not a bad question.
2008-09-08 14:24:00
117.   twerp
In the spirit of some of Jon's posts lately==

Dodgers to Snakes:

"Veni, vidi, vici."

2008-09-08 14:27:05
118.   trainwreck
I picked the Raiders to win in my Pick 'em league.

Only 5 hours away!

I hope Hallux shows up.

2008-09-08 14:34:31
119.   gpellamjr
117 There is no "-i" in "team":

uenimus, uidimus, uicimus!

2008-09-08 14:36:46
120.   kinbote
"Back to the ardors and arbors! Eros qui prend son essor! Arts that our marblery harbors: Eros, the rose and the sore." VN
2008-09-08 14:39:00
121.   underdog
118 Or underdog. Or maybe underdog will be lurking.

Underdog has arrogantly picked the Broncos to win the AFC Worst, but wouldn't be surprised with a season series split with the Raiders. Whether the win is tonight or the other game, who knows. Don't expect a lot of receptions by WR's for either team tonight is my only prediction.


"Mareichtag and I are speaking nothing but English now."

2008-09-08 14:42:37
122.   trainwreck
I expected you to be around to talk trash with us.
2008-09-08 14:43:01
123.   Marty
I don't know why, but I just have no interest in pro football.
2008-09-08 14:45:02
124.   sporky
123 I'm trying to care.
2008-09-08 14:48:46
125.   trainwreck
Your Vikings ;) are playing in the first game tonight.
2008-09-08 14:48:47
126.   Jon Weisman
124 - I'm not.
2008-09-08 14:51:37
127.   underdog
I may be in and out, I have a ton of work to do tonight, alas. :-( But you can trash talk in my place if you want (say what you think I'd say if I was here).

Hm, I wonder where Hallux is these days actually. Maybe you guys scared him off with your Raiders this and Raiders that. Or maybe he... defected to the Rockies! ((gulp!!)

2008-09-08 14:51:48
128.   The Dude Abides
If anyone here is a tennis fan, the US Open final is on CBS right now. Federer playing scintillating tennis at the moment.
2008-09-08 14:52:46
129.   Marty
Why is the men's final on a Monday?
2008-09-08 14:52:48
130.   sporky
125 Are they? I'm failing as a fan already.
2008-09-08 14:54:55
131.   Alex41592
129 - Rain on Saturday pushed everything back a day.
2008-09-08 14:59:09
132.   alex 7
Broncos can still be run on, their O-Line is far from the HOF unit they've been in the past, linebackers are aging...they just look like an 8-8 team to me.
2008-09-08 15:01:52
133.   underdog
132 - So you said before. We shall see. Tonight will be a test, but their D will probably start to gel as season goes on. Their LBs are actually younger than they were last season if you count new guys Niko K and sleeper Wesley Woodyard. DL is overall real young which will mean more ups and downs. Clady and Harris are future pro bowlers on the OL but will also make mistakes early in the season. They'll miss Marshall tonight. I predict 9-7 which might be good enough, who knows?
2008-09-08 15:05:19
134.   delias man
Raiders and Dodgers both on top of the division at the end of the night? 1983 all over again.
2008-09-08 15:05:39
135.   underdog
Sorry Marty... Enough football talk from me. How about that Cool Hand Luke deluxe edition DVD out today?
2008-09-08 15:14:58
136.   fanerman
124 Like Jon I'm not either. It's okay. Some things shouldn't be forced.
2008-09-08 15:19:24
137.   cargill06
134 JaMarcus Russell went to work out with Andruw Jones' trainer this off-season.
2008-09-08 15:19:53
138.   Paul Scott
135 I can eat fifty eggs.
2008-09-08 15:20:01
139.   sporky
I feel like I should give football a shot. I grew up knowing diddly about it, and my school had a better fencing club than a football team.
2008-09-08 15:21:09
140.   delias man
139 - you should join the dark side
2008-09-08 15:22:44
141.   fanerman
140 Which side is that?
2008-09-08 15:23:59
142.   alex 7
prediction time!

Chargers 10-6
Broncos 9-7
Raiders 7-9
Chiefs 5-11

Biggest surprise: Russell's sharp play.
Chargers SB window closes if they don't get it this year (mainly because you start to question Norv Turner, in the same manner Gruden is questioned beyond that first year honeymoon).
Broncos fans finally start getting impatient with post-Elway Shanahan.
Chiefs had a great draft and solid future, just not yet.

Fargas will still be Oakland's top rusher (I'm taking the crazy odds that he stays healthy all season).
Zach Miller becomes one of AFC's top receiving TEs.

2008-09-08 15:26:01
143.   trainwreck
My high school was so bad at football that when we finally won a game in my junior year, the Contra Costa Times made us the front page story.
2008-09-08 15:26:02
144.   delias man
141 The 3 time World Champion Oakland Raiders
2008-09-08 15:27:10
145.   fanerman
140 144 sporky, whatever you do, please stay FAR FAR AWAY from the dark side. PLEASE!
2008-09-08 15:28:16
146.   underdog
138 Nobody can eat fifty eggs.
Well, I believe I'll take part of that wager.

142 All sounds very possible.

2008-09-08 15:32:56
147.   Eric Stephen
Historically the Dodgers are in pretty good shape. Of the 15 previous seasons the LA Dodgers have been in first with 19 games left, they went to the playoffs 12 times. Of the 3 times they didn't make the postseason, 2 of those were by 1- or 3-game playoffs.

Dodgers in 1st With 19 Games Left
1962: up ½ over SF (lost 3-game playoff)
1963: up 3½ over StL (won by 6 games)
1966: up 1½ over Pit (won by 1½)
1974: up 3½ over Cin (won by 4)
1977: up 11½ over Cin (won by 10)
1978: up 4 over SF (won by 2½)
1980: tied with Hou (lost 1-game playoff)
1983: up 3 over Atl (won by 3)
1985: up 7½ over Cin (won by 5½)
1988: up 5½ over Hou (won by 8)
1995: tied with Col (won by 1)
1996: tied with SD, up 1 on Mon for WC (won WC by 2)
1997: up 2 over SF (lost by 2)
2004: up 4½ over SF (won by 2)
2006: up 1½ over SD, up 4 over Phi for WC (won WC by 3)

The Year of Brian Johnson really stands out.

Side note: I never realized Tom Neidenfuer got the loss in the Joe Morgan HR game (Forster gave up the HR). Did the Dodgers have 3 worse losses in the decade than the Neidenfuer games (counting also the final two games of the 1985 NLCS)? Maybe the Jay Howell pine tar game, but that was washed away by the end result of that year.

2008-09-08 15:36:00
148.   Eric Stephen
I meant to say, "Were the 3 Tom Neidenfuer losses the worst 3 losses of the 1980s?" but after posting that I forgot about Dave Goltz and the final day of 1980.
2008-09-08 15:37:18
149.   Marty
I don't mind that there is football talk, I actually love college football.

143 In my senior year, my high school team, Monrovia, was the number one ranked in their CIF division (AAA then I think). Then they were disqualified from the playoffs because it was found out they practiced on a field outside of the high school during Spring practice.

2008-09-08 15:37:44
150.   sporky
My high school didn't even have a football team. Then again, my college didn't really have one, either.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-09-08 15:39:13
151.   tjdub
147 Interesting all of the talk about Broxton today and now you bring up T.N. He truly is "He who must not be named" in my Dodger fan lifetime. I simply don't watch the 9th inning when we have a lead very often at all no matter how effective the closer has been (and I fully support Broxton, by the way). I admit to caring a little too much even now that I'm older, but Buff scarred me for life.
2008-09-08 15:41:00
152.   KG16
142 - I questioned Turner the moment he was hired. Terrible way to go with that team, I think. But SD has a pretty decent window, I think - Rivers, Vincent Jackson, and Antonio Gates have some mileage left on them. LT might only have a couple of years left. And the only question on defense is: will Merriman's knee explode before the end of the season?

I think San Diego probably goes 12-4, or so. As for the rest of the division, I think Denver can get in as a wild card team (maybe) and the Raiders and Chiefs are still playing for the future. Though the Raiders are probably closer.

2008-09-08 15:43:22
153.   trainwreck
Wow, that is weak.
2008-09-08 15:43:22
154.   KG16
150 - why did I have this feeling that you were very young? Like still in high school young?
2008-09-08 15:44:55
155.   sporky
I'm clueless: why is it bad to root for the Raiders?
2008-09-08 15:45:26
156.   KG16
My high school football team split a CIF title my freshman year. We won 5 CIF titles that year, or 4 and a half, depending on how you count a tie in the championship game with your school's rival. If I recall correctly, there was a lot of mud involved in that game.
2008-09-08 15:45:53
157.   sporky
154 It must be the squee-ing.
2008-09-08 15:47:09
158.   Alex41592
Wow, I never knew the 1982 Dodgers had a three game lead with 12 games left and proceeded to lose eight in a row. Morgan's HR broke a lot of hearts but losing eight in a row (including six at home) is what cost them the division. I think that season would've taken a huge toll on my life.
2008-09-08 15:48:08
159.   trainwreck
It is fun being a terrible football team and one of your rivals is De La Salle, the best football program in the country. They would beat us 70-0 with their backups playing the whole game.
2008-09-08 15:49:07
160.   Eric Stephen
It's not bad to root for the Raiders. All it takes is a few hundred stabbings a year to sully the good names of the rest of us decent folk who happen to be Raider fans.
2008-09-08 15:49:11
161.   cargill06
155 A large majority of Raider fans are drunken, violent, rude, annoying idiots. If you asked a Raider fan where top 5 QB's JaMarcus Russell would make most of their lists.
2008-09-08 15:50:07
162.   trainwreck
The Raiders are the rebel team that everyone loves to hate.
2008-09-08 15:50:37
163.   trainwreck
You just described every football fan at any stadium.
2008-09-08 15:50:54
164.   Jon Weisman
The 1982 season is definitely a cautionary tale.
2008-09-08 15:51:57
165.   cargill06
163 Only going to one NFL game (Rams last game in LA), it was quite an enjoyable friendly experience.
2008-09-08 15:52:09
166.   worz
158 If I remember correctly, the Dodges went up by 3 1/2 at one point. I distinctly remember the Times' headline after that game was "Dodgers Pulling Away". Then, of course, they proceeded to lose it all. To this day, I dread seeing such a headline again...
2008-09-08 15:54:02
167.   delias man
160 I am one of those Raider fans who is almost embarrassed to say that I am one because of those stabbers.
2008-09-08 15:55:54
168.   fanerman
155 I probably don't have any sane reasons. The Raiders give me bad vibes (perhaps something to do with their privateer/medievals-dressing fan-base). I don't like how they left LA. I don't like Al Davis. My friend pretends to be a Raiders fan and pretends that I'm a Raiders fan, much to my annoyance.
2008-09-08 15:55:58
169.   Jon Weisman
One of the first DT posts was about 1982:

2008-09-08 15:56:08
170.   Eric Stephen
The lesson, as always: Joe Torre always ends up on top. :)
2008-09-08 15:57:57
171.   trainwreck
Didn't a Dodger fan shoot a Giants fan?

Every team has nutcase fans.

Well, except the Marlins.

2008-09-08 15:58:38
172.   FirstMohican
I don't hate the Raiders at all. I just know better than to honk at a car with a Raiders sticker regardless of how egregiously I've been cut off.
2008-09-08 15:59:59
173.   Gagne55
147 I guess they weren't leading the division, but the 2002 Dodgers were in playoff position with 19 games left (WC position). And they lost it. That was my first year watching baseball.
2008-09-08 16:00:53
174.   Gagne55
170 And that is why the Yankees suck this year. (No Torre)
2008-09-08 16:01:18
175.   Eric Stephen
Good call. I missed that going through the annual schedules on B-R.
2008-09-08 16:12:51
176.   fracule
Hurray!! I don't know it was mentioned here, but Andre Gigante just got NL player of the week.
2008-09-08 16:15:55
177.   overkill94
171 So one shooting is the same as all the crazy Raider-related violence? I realize Dodger fans (at the stadium in particular) aren't the most sane bunch themselves, but I think Raider fans are in a class of their own.
2008-09-08 16:18:42
178.   trainwreck
What is all this Raider related violence?
2008-09-08 16:23:14
179.   Jon Weisman
Tonight's lineup:

Martin, C
Ethier, RF
Ramirez, LF
Loney, 1B
Kemp, CF
Blake, 3B
DeWitt, 2B
Berroa, SS
Maddux, P

2008-09-08 16:30:23
180.   Jon Weisman
Tony Jackson says Jason Schmidt will have a touch-up surgery. Sounds kind of like a trip to Supercuts.
2008-09-08 16:30:37
181.   mwhite06
171 Not that it really matters, but I remember it being the other way around.
2008-09-08 16:33:53
182.   StolenMonkey86
171 Strike that, reverse it.

2008-09-08 16:37:03
183.   Gilberto Reyes
169 The 1982 season rings very close to home for me. It was my first year as a ballboy/clubhouse attendent and one I will never forget it. From the amazing 10 game comeback that started in a July 30th doubleheader in Atlanta to the horrible 8 game collapse in late September. Then 3 straight wins before the infamous Joe Morgan HR.
2008-09-08 16:37:58
184.   scareduck
155 -

1) Al Davis. Probably the worst, most mercenary of any owner in the NFL.
2) The fans. See 160 , but they attract a seriously thuggish following.
3) The team. When they're not breaking the rules, they're losing. No winning seasons in the last five years. Not that I'm advocating being a front-runner, but it seems to me that joining up with a losing team is just a bad idea. (I should bring this up with Helen and her Cubs someday...)
4) It's the NFL.
5) It's football. (2) is merely a exaggerated case of what passes for normal among football fans; if you like violence, football's a great game. I'm unimpressed.

2008-09-08 16:38:14
185.   trainwreck
That was the original story, because at first they thought it was a Giants fan shooting a Dodgers fan, but then they later reversed it.
2008-09-08 16:40:16
186.   whodat807
So this Adrian Peterson fellow is kinda good.

Also, Tony Kornhesier, who I love, is a terrible football commentator.

2008-09-08 16:41:07
187.   trainwreck
I agree on both points. Tony is so much funnier on PTI than he is doing MNF.
2008-09-08 16:42:20
188.   ToyCannon
I'm feeling extra ordinarily cocky today.
Blake DeWitt now has a record of 8-0 as a starting 2nd baseman. Is that the best starting record for a LA Dodger 2nd baseman in history? Larry Burright went 5 - 0 and 8 - 1. No one else seems to be close.
2008-09-08 16:44:21
189.   berkowit28
179 Lineup looks good. Kemp has been advanced one place in the order - it's time for him to get his hitting going again.
2008-09-08 16:47:12
190.   ToyCannon
We've heard this before. From Rotowire:
"Beltre has hit pretty well in the second half, but the last three weeks have been particularly hot. He's hitting .373 (31-for-83) and slugging .711 with a 1.115 OPS, six homers and eight doubles in that span. Perhaps his injured wrist isn't causing as much pain when he grips a bat, or maybe it's because Jose Vidro is no longer batting near him in the lineup. Or maybe he's just in a hot streak. Only Alex Rodriguez has more homers then Beltre among AL third basemen."
2008-09-08 16:57:08
191.   Johnny Nucleo
Is tonight's pitcher Baek as in "Back" or Baek as in "Bake?"
2008-09-08 16:59:58
192.   sporky
191 More like "beck," actually.
2008-09-08 17:01:15
193.   whodat807
191 Baek as in "Bek" or "Bak". In fact, I believe (though am not 100%) that he has the same name as Chan Ho Park, just romanized differently. Sorta like the whole Guo/Kuo thing.
2008-09-08 17:03:21
194.   sporky
193 They're not, actually.

After all these years, Green Bay fans still can't spell Favre's name.

2008-09-08 17:04:11
195.   Marty
Or Baek as in "Björk"
2008-09-08 17:04:31
196.   whodat807
193 I take that back. I always assumed Bak/Pak/Park/Baek were all the same name, but it turns out Baek and Park have different vowels. Korean romanization is a bit confusing - my last name in English is Lee for example, but in Korean it's "Ee". I dunno what genius came up with that system.
2008-09-08 17:04:59
197.   gibsonhobbs88
183 - I remember that season also because we would have had a chance to repeat though we would have faced a very good Cardinal team in the NLCS. I remeber part of that losing streak was a 3 game series at the Murph in SD when the Dodger offense just went to sleep and the games we lost were all like 2-1 or 3-2 type games and maybe one or two were lost in extra innings. All I know was it was agonizing!!

184 - Never was a Raider fan-they were in Oakland when I first followed football-I was a Ram fan in the Fearsome Foursome days. Never warmed to the Raider image, even though I did respect Marcus Allen and thought Al Davis treated him like garbage. To this day, my favorite teams are anyone who beats the Raiders :). My love for the Rams left when that "late hit former showgirl, carpetbagger took them to St. Louis"! I enjoy a good game with good QB and quality games with well run teams. I have gone to SD and watched a couple Charger games the last two years. LT seems like a class act and a hard worker. Congratulations to Ethier for being Player of the week in the NL along with Oswalt. Let's keep the hitting going Blue away from the Ravine!!

2008-09-08 17:05:19
198.   Eric Stephen
Gary Sheffield has hit the 250,000th HR in baseball history. He also hit #249,999.
2008-09-08 17:05:41
199.   scareduck
196 -
2008-09-08 17:08:55
200.   whodat807
199 Darn you, McCune/Reischauer!
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-09-08 17:11:49
201.   whodat807
Rodgers is sure making the Packers brass look smart so tonight.
2008-09-08 17:12:01
202.   Eric Stephen
Apparently it's raining heavily in Detroit, so the HRs in that game (3 in total) may not count.
2008-09-08 17:13:37
203.   Tangled Up in Blue
156 If you are talking about Esperanza and the year was 1993, that was my graduating class.

Of course I played basketball and we did not win the CIF title that year. We did go undefeated in the Empire League though. We had this pesky team called Mater Dei in our division with a guy named Miles Simon so I doubt we would have won the CIF title anyways.

2008-09-08 17:27:49
204.   sporky
My first Vikings game isn't going as planned.
2008-09-08 17:32:52
205.   KG16
203 - not bad, not bad. Class of '96, myself. We were suppose to do something similar to '93, but then they decided that realignment made since and shipped us off to the Sunset league.
2008-09-08 17:36:18
206.   bhsportsguy
My high school football team lost 81-0 in a L.A. City playoff game, the next year they re-aligned the leagues.
2008-09-08 17:41:51
207.   Jon Weisman

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