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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Sauer Soared, Cubs Soured
2008-09-12 12:07
by Jon Weisman

Ramirez has 14 homers and 40 RBI in his first 38 games with the Dodgers. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, he is the first mid-season acquisition to collect 14 homers and 40 RBI in his first 40 games with a new team since 1949, when Hank Sauer had 15 home runs and 47 RBIs in his first 40 games with the Cubs after coming over in a mid-June trade from the Reds.

- Dodger press notes

The two main differences between the 1949 Cubs and the 2008 Dodgers? The 1949 Cubs had been in the World Series four years earlier - but they were in eighth place with a 19-32 record when they traded veterans Harry "the Hat" Walker and Peanuts Lowrey for Sauer on June 15, 1949.

I asked my dad, who attended the 1945 World Series as a 10-year-old Cubs fan, what he remembered about this.

"The Cubs had won the pennant in '45 with the boost of a pitcher named Hank Borowy from the Yankees, and, when Sauer came, there was real hope if not expectation that great things would happen," said my father, a self-proclaimed expert on the combination of Cub worship and fatalism. "The 'angst' so publicized now had not yet developed. Sauer delivered and continued to do so, but the rest of the team devolved down in that and ensuing years to what we all have come to expect."

Comments (141)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-09-12 12:11:55
1.   underdog
Hate to quote Ken Rosenthal, but since we were talking about Manny...

>>Evidently Manny Ramirez found a miracle cure for the sore knee that supposedly hindered him during his final days with the Red Sox.

Not only is Manny mashing for the Dodgers, he's also hustling. It's called, "pending free agency."

A scout who attended Wednesday night's Dodgers-Padres game at Petco Park clocked Ramirez from home to first in 4.48 seconds — a major improvement on his running times with the Red Sox.

"It was the fastest I've ever gotten him," the scout said. "I couldn't believe it."

Equally incredible were the two opposite-field home runs that Ramirez crushed at Petco, an extreme pitcher's park.

"He stayed back on (Shawn) Estes' curveball as good as I've seen a hitter stay on a ball in a long, long time — and he drove it 420 feet," the scout said. "All I could think was, 'Phil Nevin, where are you now?'"<<

(Yikes, another Phil Nevin reference, makes Matt Vasgersian happy.)

2008-09-12 12:12:19
2.   underdog
Peanuts Lowery, they don't make 'em like that anymore.
2008-09-12 12:14:58
3.   bhsportsguy
I mentioned Hank Sauer (and Elias) yesterday.
2008-09-12 12:16:10
4.   Jon Weisman
3 - But you didn't get the exclusive interview. That's what separates the men from the boys :)
2008-09-12 12:18:40
5.   bhsportsguy
4 Well, I called and asked him if he knew a Joe Weisman and he hung up.
2008-09-12 12:21:04
6.   Eric Stephen
I even knew there was a new post before I posted, but wasn't thinking...

In Coors Field, Manny has only played 3 games. 14 PA, .222/.500/.333 (2 for 9, double, 4 walks, 1 HBP). And that was all the way back in aught four.

2008-09-12 12:23:59
7.   cargill06
6 My mistake, I was looking at his career #'s vs. Colorado not his numbers at Coors. It'll never happen again guys.
2008-09-12 12:24:31
8.   Eric Stephen
Just to have this on record:

USC 34, Ohio St 13

2008-09-12 12:24:58
9.   Eric Stephen
Make sure it doesn't! [shaking fist]


2008-09-12 12:26:48
10.   Bob Timmermann
Manny Ramirez was 0 for 8 with a walk in two games at Coors in 2007.

He played there in a postseason exhibition series.

2008-09-12 12:27:23
11.   Tripon

Ethier and Delgado now has the same OPS+ (127 OPS+)

2008-09-12 12:28:11
12.   Tripon
8 More like

USC: 50 OSU: 6

2008-09-12 12:28:22
13.   njr
My friends and I have an ongoing fascination with great old Dodgers player names. I seem to recall a discussion about it here a year or two ago. Our obvious favorite is Van Lingle Mungo. We will often call each other and say we just ran into an old friend, and then when prompted as to who reply "VAN LINGLE MUNGO!"

But the point is I just discovered (as in 5 minutes ago) the song "Van Lingle Mungo" and it's rocking my world.

2008-09-12 12:28:36
14.   tjdub
8 Lou Holtz doesn't think so. I think I counted 4 or 5 if's in his justification for picking Ohio State on Sportscenter. High comedy.
2008-09-12 12:29:33
15.   ToyCannon
Do we have a MVP candidate now?
2008-09-12 12:30:38
16.   Tripon
15 We have two!

Or it just goes to show you how ridiculous the MVP talk surrounding Delgado is.

2008-09-12 12:30:58
17.   Bob Timmermann
How does Ethier compare to Geovany Soto, the Gammons pick for MVP?
2008-09-12 12:31:05
18.   cargill06
Who won the AZ Dodger coin flip???????????????????????????????????
2008-09-12 12:33:20
19.   berkowit28
2 And they don't (much) name them like that any more, either.

But I remember seeing some interview earlier this year with Delwyn Young, where he referred to his nickname being "my family called me Peanut, or some call me PeeWee". We had all sniggered a bit when Vin had referred to him once or twice as "Peanut" instead of "PeeWee". But it looks like he was right. Though I can't find anything authoritative about this anywhere.

2008-09-12 12:33:49
20.   Bob Timmermann
You can watch it live online!
2008-09-12 12:34:06
21.   The Dude Abides
It's hilarious how much Holtz hates USC. He always disparages their chances in any big game, and he always calls them "Southern Cal," which I'm sure peeves any USC alum as much as my San Francisco cousins hate it when I say "Frisco."
2008-09-12 12:34:46
22.   bhsportsguy
Just for Eric Stephen, if he is on the local broadcast area, Fox Prime Ticket is bookending the Dodger game broadcast with a pre-and-post game show from the soon to be named Memorial Coliseum.

Hopefully the Dodgers and Rockies can play a game faster than USC and Ohio State.

2008-09-12 12:35:15
23.   cargill06
20 I tried, I put my heart into it but I can't.
2008-09-12 12:37:44
24.   cargill06
If the Dodgers clinch let's say with 4 games left, will James Mac get a start or would that go to Penny/Stults?
2008-09-12 12:39:31
25.   Sagehen
21 I'm not a big college football follower, but didn't Lou Holtz coach at South Carolina? In the South, that is USC, so of course he calls our USC "Southern Cal."
2008-09-12 12:42:19
26.   Brendan
Lou Holtz owns the Trojans. He can say what he wants. (shakes fist)
2008-09-12 12:43:12
27.   bhsportsguy
I am pretty sure that every time Bob sees the name Lou Holtz, he looks for something to throw at his monitor.
2008-09-12 12:44:02
28.   LU Dodger
Video surfaced of Bob Melvin's rousing clubhouse speech after a 3 game sweep at the hands of the Dodgers.

I think momentum might have switched to the D-backs

2008-09-12 12:47:36
29.   Tripon
28 You mean before they got swept by the Giants?
2008-09-12 12:48:35
30.   LU Dodger

haha yes, it's more fun that way

2008-09-12 12:50:48
31.   Bob Timmermann
No, not really.

I hate Charlie Weis with the heat of 10,000 suns however.

2008-09-12 12:50:56
32.   Tripon
Lou Holtz is older than dirt I believe.
2008-09-12 12:52:16
33.   fanerman
31 Why? I ask because I need good reasons to hate him.
2008-09-12 12:54:40
34.   Bob Timmermann
Never has someone gotten so wealthy and been accorded such respect for LOSING a game.

And he recruited Jimmy Clausen. Every time Jimmy Clausen throws a TD pass, a puppy is killed. Every time Jimmy Clausen is sick, a kitten is rescued.

There is a net gain of kittens over puppies.

2008-09-12 12:56:29
35.   Tripon
33 He's a vastly overrated coach who got a sweetheart extension seven games into first contract who seemly can't coach his blue chippers into decent players on the field and gets into BCS games with a 9-4 record and then gets blown out of bowl games?
2008-09-12 12:56:46
36.   fanerman
34 What game did he lose?
2008-09-12 12:58:56
37.   Xeifrank
0. That's great that you used your father's eye witness account of the 1945 season in one of your posts. Real people are the greatest history books. :)
vr, Xei
2008-09-12 12:58:56
38.   bhsportsguy
34 USC
The first time.
2008-09-12 12:59:30
39.   UVaDodger
35 To be fair, it's more Notre Dame's brand and less Charlie Weis that gets him in over his head in bowl games. Any Notre Dame team that they could shoehorn into a major bowl game would be chosen. Money talks.
2008-09-12 12:59:39
40.   Tripon
38 At least Karl Dorell actually beat USC once.
2008-09-12 12:59:40
41.   Tripon
38 At least Karl Dorell actually beat USC once.
2008-09-12 13:02:23
42.   UVaDodger
34 Aren't those reasons to hate Notre Dame's (thankfully former) A.D. and all the talking heads that praised him for the 'SC loss? Was Weis supposed to turn down the extension?

And wasn't it his due diligence to try to recruit Clausen, a consensus top recruit?

2008-09-12 13:03:46
43.   fanerman
34 I always thought you were a cat guy.
2008-09-12 13:09:28
44.   old dodger fan
Holtz was great at William & Mary. They went to the Tangerine Bowl in 1970. Only bowl game ever.
2008-09-12 13:13:04
45.   Marty
So the Cubs got Sauer literally for Peanuts.

Lou Holtz calls USC Southern Cal because that's the Notre Dame tradition. Greg Brock does too, but that's ok.

Another lengthening Notre Dame tradition is weak teams.

2008-09-12 13:15:32
46.   old dodger fan
He calls USC Southern Cal because lots of people in the south call The University of South Carolina USC.
2008-09-12 13:19:12
47.   Alex41592
For those who care we won the coin flip.

2008-09-12 13:19:25
48.   underdog
Has NBC at least stopped the folly of televising every Notre Dame game, or is that television travesty still being perpetrated?
2008-09-12 13:20:10
49.   Marty
48 They had the ND-San Diego State game, so I think they still are.
2008-09-12 13:22:42
50.   Marty
I missed George Putnam thoughts earlier, but does anyone remember the show he did with Mort Sahl? That was surreal.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-09-12 13:23:46
51.   Indiana Jon
For the life of me I've never been able to figure out why there are so many South Carolina fans on a Dodgers blog, but this thread has finally explained it.
2008-09-12 13:24:21
52.   Xeifrank
California teams have a chance to wreak havoc on two of the Big 10s top three teams tomorrow. Ohio State is in south Central and Wisc is in Fresno. Chances of both California team winning 35-40%?
vr, Xei
2008-09-12 13:29:04
53.   cargill06
52 35.6%
2008-09-12 13:29:17
54.   delias man
Can someone tell me the dimensions of the mat that goes behind the plate in slow pitch? Thanks
2008-09-12 13:31:50
55.   silverwidow
Micah Owings to Reds official.
2008-09-12 13:33:32
56.   cargill06
53 If you look at the money line with no juice it looks like this...

USC 1-4 or 80% chance of winning
Fresno 5-4 or 44.4% chance of winning.

2008-09-12 13:34:03
57.   tjdub
Fresno State will officially occupy top-three status on my college football rooting list tomorrow.
2008-09-12 13:34:12
58.   old dodger fan
51 Just to be clear, I am not a South Carolina fan. William and Mary, yes; South Carolina-No
2008-09-12 13:35:02
59.   Sean P
This is a bit off-topic, but has anyone else around here looked at Mariano Rivera's numbers this year:

63.0 IP, 298 ERA+, 0.683 WHIP, 71 K, 6 BB

K-Rod really is overrated.

2008-09-12 13:35:35
60.   Indiana Jon
55 I wonder if he can play left field.
2008-09-12 13:36:48
61.   delias man
54 - found it 17x34
2008-09-12 13:37:04
62.   Indiana Jon
59 I'm going to make a blind statement without any research and say he is the best closer (career) ever.
2008-09-12 13:38:36
63.   caseybarker
I love those old minor leaugue sets. The sets before 1980 can be hard to find.

I have some 1984-1990 Visalia Oaks cards, but they are not in great shape. The Gene Larkin autograph is my favorite.

2008-09-12 13:39:09
64.   MollyKnight
Anybody else beginning to root hard against the Astros? They're the only NL team I fear in the playoffs. (And I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but I'm still keeping a pessimistic tone in accordance with the scripture.)
2008-09-12 13:40:00
65.   Indiana Jon
58 Just to be clear, I was referring to the Southern Cal fans.
2008-09-12 13:41:57
66.   Indiana Jon
64 I've learned from Manny to be more carefree this season, so I'm not going to root against anybody, only for the Dodgers.
2008-09-12 13:42:15
67.   cargill06
64 I don't fear them, I'd be giddy if we played them at any point in the playoffs.
2008-09-12 13:43:17
68.   regfairfield
64 I don't want to hear any stories about the genius of Ed Wade.
2008-09-12 13:46:08
69.   scareduck
64 - but why? What have the Astros done lately, besides mauling the Cubs, that's worthy of getting too excited about? They're on a tear now, but so what? So are the Dodgers.
2008-09-12 13:49:39
70.   scareduck
59 - yes, Mo is having an insane good season, especially this late in his career. But calling K-Rod "overrated" because of his early-season dip in K/9 and K/BB is misleading; if you look at his numbers month-by-month, you'll see a steady progression to his career norms. He was injured to start the season.
2008-09-12 13:50:07
71.   cargill06
69 Even after this recent tear they're still a -7 run differencial. They're just not a good team.
2008-09-12 13:52:59
72.   Eric Stephen
NBC still has the Notre Dame contract. Unless it's a national game, like vs. USC at night on ABC or something like that, NBC will have the broadcast.
2008-09-12 13:56:39
73.   Marty
I think UCLA fans outnumber USC fans on this site about 10 to 1.
2008-09-12 13:57:26
74.   caseybarker
Fresno State-USC a couple of years back was one of the best I have ever seen.
2008-09-12 13:58:19
75.   Bob Timmermann
NBC televises EVERY Notre Dame home game.
2008-09-12 14:00:50
76.   Louis in SF
Marty, the show that Putnam did with Mort Sahl was Talkback, I don't remember how long it lasted, the show followed the newscast. It was pretty funny. The thing I remember about it, the attacks were not personal, as compared to shows now where people argue and attack each other.
2008-09-12 14:06:08
77.   Xeifrank
74. Yes, great game. Fresno State basically outplayed all but one USC-Trojan.
vr, Xei
2008-09-12 14:07:25
78.   Xeifrank
75. The cakewalk games or the hard games? :)
vr, Xei
2008-09-12 14:07:30
79.   Bob Timmermann
Micah Owings is now a Red.
2008-09-12 14:10:36
80.   Gen3Blue
79 Is he that nice hitting hurler on the Snakes? Who's a snake now?
2008-09-12 14:11:07
81.   Bob Timmermann
Some guy named Dunn.
2008-09-12 14:13:21
82.   Gen3Blue
Ah--- I forgot it was a "Dunn" deal. Well good, I like Owings and I'm just as pleased to see him shed his skin.
2008-09-12 14:16:06
83.   Gen3Blue
82 cont. ...shed his skin for a red one, but thats not right; His vestigal legs developed into red ones.
2008-09-12 14:26:25
84.   ToyCannon
How many times have they been counted out at the all-star break only to make a late run?
2008-09-12 14:32:22
85.   Alex41592
Per ITD:

Martin, C

Ethier, RF

Manny, LF

Blake, 3B

Nomar, 1B

Kemp, CF

DeWitt, 2B

Berroa, SS

Bills, P

Loney is 1 for 15 lifetime vs. Francis. So, he'll start the game on the bench.

2008-09-12 14:35:52
86.   kinbote
Commence the grousing . . .
2008-09-12 14:41:11
87.   overkill94
63 There was one year (1992 according to the Baseball Cube) where I bought the Oaks' team set and proceeded to get every single player's autograph. Marty Cordova was the prize of the set, but he ended up only being famous for winning the ROY and missing a couple games because he got a sunburn from a tanning bed.
2008-09-12 14:42:42
88.   underdog
I won't grouse about the line-up. I think it's wise to rest Loney today and then let him mash the next two days. He's looked really feeble vs Francis. (I know, he loves Coors in general but given the matchup it's not a terrible idea.)

Btw, I do think it's funny the number of us - myself included - who wondered aloud what the heck Ed Wade was thinking making trades for players when his team seemed all but dead in late July. I guess he has the laugh on us now, though I think they'll come up just shy of the playoffs.

2008-09-12 14:47:05
89.   Sean P

People are talking about giving K-Rod the AL MVP. So even if he pitched to his career norms all this season, he would still be overrated.

Having said that, the guy has allowed two men on base in each of his last five appearances (all 1.0 IP each). So, he's still a little shaky.

2008-09-12 14:47:42
90.   kinbote
88 Berkman and Oswalt are the Malone and Stockton of MLB. (And that is the first and last NBA comment I'll make here.)
2008-09-12 14:48:07
91.   silverwidow
Will tonight be the beginning of sub-3 ERA Billingsley? He's been SO CLOSE before but never reached that milestone to end a game.
2008-09-12 14:52:59
92.   Jon Weisman
91 - I was thinking about how if his turn had come in San Diego, how much easier that task would be.
2008-09-12 15:10:56
93.   Xeifrank
Purple Row has the following game weather report. "Mostly cloudy with a 60-percent chance of rain. Winds blowing out to left field at 5-10 m.p.h. Game Time temperature: Around 60."

Skinny: Hopefully, we don't have a repeat of the Billingsley rain delay game earlier in the year. Cool temps and rain could make it difficult for a pitcher to go deep into the game (ie - delays, arm stiffness etc...). The 5-10 mph winds to left field will definitely aid any right handed batters (Nomar). High humidity would likely make it a little more difficult than normal for a ball to leave the yard. A wet field/track could make for some sloppy play (Manny beware). Go Dodgers!
vr, Xei

2008-09-12 15:15:12
94.   KG16
89 - I can understand K-Rod for Cy Young Award, but K-Rod for MVP is just mind-boggling.
2008-09-12 15:16:48
95.   caseybarker

My dad thought Scott Stahoviak was going to be a really good MLB player. Denny Hocking also played a few MLB seasons.

2008-09-12 15:20:16
96.   Humma Kavula
94 Explanation:

Q: Who do you like for MVP?

A: (suddenly seized by coughing) (Ack) (Ack) A-Rod. (Ack)

Q: You heard it here first -- K-Rod for MVP!

2008-09-12 15:21:44
97.   bhsportsguy
88 My hunch is that their version of DT (blogs) are probably mixed on their views of their team (blowing it up and starting over vs. going for wins today)
2008-09-12 15:22:06
98.   overkill94
95 I just looked up that year's roster and found that Eddie Guardado pitched for them as well. Can't remember if he was part of the set and thus one of the autographs I got though.
2008-09-12 15:22:58
99.   ToyCannon
I thought that was Biggio/Bagwell. Did they pass the torch to Oswalt/Bergman?
2008-09-12 15:24:03
100.   ToyCannon
They almost had no choice but to go for it. They have no kids to fall back on.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-09-12 15:32:15
101.   scareduck
89 - K-Rod is only overrated by people nominating him for MVP, and people who can't properly decipher his YTD stats.
2008-09-12 15:37:59
102.   Ken Arneson
101 K-Rod might indeed be award-worthy, but I beg you not to hand anything out to him without first looking at Joe Nathan's stats, and comparing them.
2008-09-12 15:41:23
103.   scareduck
97 , 100 - From this year's BP section on the Astros:

Rather than focus on how to contend through improving the personnel in the lineup, the Astros have instead operated for years on the assumption that certain players were building blocks because they liked them, not because of what they actually contributed on the field. When the players in question are Biggio and Bagwell in their primes, that's fine; when they are Ausmus, Everett, or a completely cooke Biggio, the term "building block" is robbed of its meaning.

On the mechanations required to get to the "win now" and its implications:

... What mattered was that Wade told McLane he thought the Astros could win now. The crazy part is, it might not be such a bad idea.

Why not make a banzai run? It's actually an inspired decision reflecting an understanding of the competitieve ecology of a National League — and especially a NL Central Division — devoid of real titans, as evidenced by the Rockies' run to the World Series. Only two teams in the league won 90 games last year, and 85 victories have been enough to claim the Central in each of the last two seasons ....

... [C]onsider what blasting down to the foundations would have involved. There's very little talent in the pipeline; the Astros' house is effectively built on quicksand. ... [A] long-term plan is pointless in this organization, because nobody — except for McLane and Smith — is going to be here long enough to enjoy the benefits.

2008-09-12 15:47:22
104.   scareduck
Dodgers win home field advantage over the Snakes in a tiebreaker game 163 for the NL West:

2008-09-12 15:48:45
105.   scareduck
93 - high humidity will help the ball leave the yard. Water vapor is less dense than dry air.
2008-09-12 15:52:23
106.   Bob Timmermann
Brewers and Phillies rained out. The NL Wild Card race is in stasis.
2008-09-12 15:52:26
107.   Xeifrank
105. Ok. Even if it's raining?
vr, Xei
2008-09-12 15:53:28
108.   Xeifrank
104. only edged out by 2 hours and 28 minutes. :)
vr, Xei
2008-09-12 15:53:34
109.   fanerman
102 Joe Nathan has a 400 ERA+.
2008-09-12 15:57:54
110.   ToyCannon
Right, that is where I got the idea they didn't really have a choice to make a run for it. I try not to have to many original thoughts.
2008-09-12 16:00:26
111.   KG16
102 - the Saves record is going to put K-Rod over the top. It'd be like a starter going out and winning 30 games. There might be a 20 game winner out there with better numbers overall, but the "W" and "SV" is what the voters will see, not WHIP, not K/9, not anything else.
2008-09-12 16:00:49
112.   Lexinthedena
Seeing the Glenn Burke card made me sad. Lasorda should be ashamed of himself.
2008-09-12 16:01:19
113.   Xeifrank
105. ... follow up, which effect on a flying baseball would then be greater on a humid day? The air being less dense allowing the ball to fly a little bit further, or the ball itself getting weighted down due to the high humidity (think humidor @ Coors). I'm not a physicist nor do I play one on tv.
vr, Xei
2008-09-12 16:03:34
114.   Xeifrank
I wonder how many people who vote for MVP and Cy Young actually know what ERA+ is. Imho, in this day and age, a relief pitcher with 40 saves is not going to get more votes on anything over a relief pitcher with 60 saves, no matter how worthless of a stat a save is.
vr, Xei
2008-09-12 16:06:30
115.   overkill94
111 Even Cliff Lee and his 21-2 record?

Gagne won the Cy Young in 2003 not only because he had ridiculous stats for a closer, but also because there wasn't a dominating starting pitching performance. I realize K-Rod has a single-season record to boost his resume, but Cliff Lee's stats are more than enough to bridge the gap.

2008-09-12 16:08:57
116.   ToyCannon
It is not like he was any good, just another in the long run of speedy centerfielders who had no power and couldn't carry an OBP high enough to warrant starting in CF. He had a certain way of walking to the plate that left me the least surprised person when he came out of the closet.

But your right, he should have been treated better. If the Dodgers supported him they could have been the first to cross the Color line in Brooklyn and the first to cross the Gay line in LA. One wonders about the stupendous pressure gay players are having to deal with in all the major sports.

2008-09-12 16:11:04
117.   ToyCannon
Cliff Lee for me. While winning% does not impress some people, going 21-3 on a team like the Indians does impress me. I'm never impressed with ERA+ for closers. Give me a 100 innings and then we can talk.
2008-09-12 16:11:31
118.   ToyCannon
Less then 1%
2008-09-12 16:12:33
119.   scareduck
113 - considering it takes months for the moisture to penetrate the cover of the ball (the point of the humidor), I have to believe this is negligible.
2008-09-12 16:16:03
120.   bhsportsguy
If Detroit wins tonight, Bob will not have to worry about any team going fishing this weekend.
2008-09-12 16:16:03
121.   Bob Timmermann
Lots of rain on the East Coast. Only the games in Cleveland and Florida are underway.

Both New York teams are home and delayed. Boston is delayed. Philadelphia is rained out. Pittsburgh is delayed.

2008-09-12 16:16:37
122.   Bob Timmermann
Fishing? That metaphor is so 2007.
2008-09-12 16:18:50
123.   caseybarker
I don't think there is a valid comparison between the color line and the "gay line"
2008-09-12 16:19:58
124.   Jon Weisman
115 - I believe my choice the year Gagne won was Jason Schmidt.
2008-09-12 16:21:03
125.   wronghanded
119 It takes months? Every time I've played baseball in wet conditions, the ball seems to get heavier as soon as it is immersed in water. It could be psychological but I know many players that feel that way too.
2008-09-12 16:23:12
126.   Jon Weisman
123 - I'm trying to think how to respond to this, or if I should just delete it.

How about I just say that both involve prejudice and then we move on to other topics.

2008-09-12 16:24:08
127.   caseybarker
What's the coefficient of diffusion of water vapor in horsehide or whatever the ball cover is made of?
2008-09-12 16:24:57
128.   ibleedbloo
124 And Bob's choice was Russ Ortiz?
2008-09-12 16:25:22
129.   caseybarker

Just delete it.

2008-09-12 16:31:26
130.   wronghanded
127 You also need to factor in the absorption rate if the seams as well. I'd suspect that between the yarn (?) and holes in the leather it soaks up pretty fast.
2008-09-12 16:32:51
131.   caseybarker
You're right; the water probably gets through the seams more quickly than anywhere else.
2008-09-12 16:34:38
132.   scareduck
Cubs and Astros in talks to move two of this weekend's games to Atlanta:

Of course, it's too late to fly now ...

2008-09-12 16:35:50
133.   scareduck
127 , etc. - you're talking about tiny fractions of a gram at most.
2008-09-12 16:36:21
134.   Lexinthedena
126 I think it is possible to discuss this in it's relationship to the institution of baseball, or at least in the treatment Glenn Burke received. He was discriminated against because he was openly gay. That constitutes a barrier, or a "line".
2008-09-12 16:39:26
135.   wronghanded
133 Have you ever played catch with a ball that rolls through wet grass a few times? Again I could be wrong but it seems like it gets more than a few grams heavier.
2008-09-12 16:43:34
136.   DaDoughboy

The leather (hide) itself definitely has some absorption capacity. I was a hockey goalie for years and my leg pads were a good 3-6 oz each heavier after each game..I dunno how different the 2 hides though..

2008-09-12 16:46:11
137.   LAT
Probably discussed ad nausiam already but I am suprised Pierre is not in the line up. He has pretty good numbers against Francis. Funny how Joe goes to such extremes. JP was a fixture in the outfield far longer than he should have been and now when a case can be made for playing him he sits. Go figure.
2008-09-12 16:50:41
138.   Jon Weisman
I suppose J.D. Drew will get ripped for this:

Red Sox right fielder J.D. Drew is not giving up on a return this season, despite a back injury that's sidelined him since last month.

"I'm confident, but I can't predict what's going to happen," Drew said before Friday night's game against Toronto. "I know what's going on, I've got a herniated disk that isn't any fun. We've got some capable players that can fill in and do a good job.

"My thing is not to go out there and be a hero and be stupid and really hurt pitching staffs by not tracking fly balls the way I'm capable of and hurt the team by not being able to swing the bat effectively," he said.

2008-09-12 17:04:50
139.   Jon Weisman
2008-09-12 18:06:31
140.   caseybarker

Discriminating against a person because of the way he acts is different than discriminating aginst him because of the way he looks.

2008-09-12 19:16:13
141.   MonkeyBlue
Bison Power.

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