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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

MVP: Manny Valuable Player, But Not Most Valuable Player
2008-09-16 09:00
by Jon Weisman

The recent Manny Ramirez for National League Most Valuable Player talk is ludicrous. I almost don't feel that statement needs supporting evidence, but in case you do, here's Jay Jaffe of Baseball Prospectus to help explain why.

… at a time when Ramirez's name is beginning to surface in NL MVP discussions, what the numbers show is that his streak is hardly unprecedented this year. It's been matched or bettered by three guys who can make solid MVP cases of their own, particularly with regards to (Albert) Pujols and (Lance) Berkman, whose teams have remained in the hunt into the season's final two weeks. And that's not even considering the body of good work that lies beyond their hottest stretches of the year. The MVP is ostensibly about taking a full season of play into account, and by that token, it's tough to consider Manny's shortened National League resume on par with those of Pujols and company.

This isn't to take anything away from Ramirez's unbelievable work as a Dodger - .478 on-base percentage, .743 slugging percentage, 19th in the league in Value Over Replacement Player – but to see him trailing 10 players who are on playoff contenders and 18 overall in that category shows that there are people who have been in the NL all year who will deserve the award more. (And remember, this doesn't take defense into account.)

Ramirez might be the best player in the NL this minute. But he is not the 2008 NL MVP.

* * *

Though I try not to show it so much, I'm as capable of panic as the next guy. A shutout loss in Colorado? A weak top of the first in Pittsburgh, followed by Hiroki Kuroda allowing hits to the first two batters? Sure, I had "Oh no" thoughts.

But I braced myself, and before long, the Dodgers were cruising to victory Monday. It doesn't mean that anything's locked up. Bad times could still be around the corner. But I'm not letting that possibility spoil the good times. I feel I'm appreciating every good moment that's happening.

Comments (109)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-09-16 09:20:07
1.   underdog
Posted right at Jon's NPUT:

I respect Eric's hatred of the Broncos but he loses me with the senseless attacks on kittens and cat-kind. May you find a hairball on your pillow, sir, and a purring beast on your neck one evening.


Btw, Rob Neyer chat on right now, if you feel like asking him a Dodger question.

This one didn't excite me very much:

Jesse (Los Angeles, CA): I know the Dodgers are playing teams with records under .500, but can they ride this wave into the World Series?

SportsNation Rob Neyer: (12:09 PM ET ) Anything might happen in October, but the Dodgers will be heavy underdogs if they have to play the Cubs.

2008-09-16 09:20:56
2.   Jon Weisman
Bob, I guess Dr. George is gonna outlive them all.
2008-09-16 09:23:55
3.   Bob Timmermann
Dr. George is the Highlander.
2008-09-16 09:24:42
4.   Tripon
More fun with quotes.

"The chemistry was worse the year before," Donnelly said, noting the 2006 team made the playoffs. "Chemistry? I'd rather have mathematics, like a three-run homer."

2008-09-16 09:25:13
5.   Jon Weisman
According to Wikipedia, if I may be allowed:

"(Christine) Lund currently runs a small general store in Baranof Warm Springs, Alaska. She's the only resident who lives there year round."

Christine Lund is becoming Ruth-Anne Miller.

2008-09-16 09:25:40
6.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
The benefit of being a step back: I only saw that the Dodgers had lost 1-0 in 10 innings after it was done, with a moment to glance at the box score. Maddux scratchless? That seemed like a silver lining to me.

Then, to see the Dodgers win 8-2 in the same manner (a momentary update) and that Kuroda hadn't given up a run was another pleasing sense. I even missed (until a second look) that Saito had pitched a good inning.

Being too close can be anxious-making, no?

2008-09-16 09:28:51
7.   old dodger fan
As much as I love being up 4-1/2 with 12 to play I still get nervous. Webb, Davis and Randy J are pitching well. If Haren gets back to form the D'Backs could win a bunch of games. They can be streaky, just like us.
2008-09-16 09:29:12
8.   Eric Stephen
Maybe I've just had bad experiences with cats, but I don't trust them and their beady little eyes. They are a shifty lot (no offense, Jon).

My sister had a cat that would pounce on you at any moment. It was especially annoying trying to play pinball and have a cat jumping and trying to bite your hands.

2008-09-16 09:29:20
9.   fanerman
The world is still here...
2008-09-16 09:29:38
10.   Xeifrank
How close to Kirk Gibson's final Dodger MVP numbers will Manny's end up being? Pujols and Berkman will get docked for not being on a division winner or wild-card team (most likely won't make playoffs). But the top 9 OPS leaders in the NL all will most likely miss the playoffs. But in the eyes of the voters it will probably bring the leaders of the NL MVP pack somewhat closer to the David Wright, Andre Ethier, Alfonso Soriano, Carlos Beltran and Manny Ramirez' of the league. I would still think that Pujols would be the somewhat obvious choice, but I don't really care too much about these type of things.
vr, Xei
2008-09-16 09:31:07
11.   ToyCannon
In a perfect scenario the Phillies and Mets tie for 1st place on the last day of the season and both Santana and Hamels have to pitch that Sunday to make it happen.
Since Chad can pitch on the road as well as at home I'd like our 1st game matchup. Lowe and Kuroda have huge home/road splits and ideally we would want them to pitch games 3 and 4 at home. Who should pitch game 2 on the road?

Throw Maddux out there and just hope he gives you 5 innings and 3 runs with the bullpen ready to pitch the final 4?

2008-09-16 09:31:42
12.   Eric Stephen
In Webb's last four starts, including 8 shutout innings Friday, he has a 7.89 ERA.
2008-09-16 09:33:37
13.   Xeifrank
11. I'd feel more comfortable pitching Maddux or Kershaw in Shea and the ground ball pitcher pitching in Philly. Not that logic matters in baseball. :)
vr, Xei
2008-09-16 09:34:51
14.   Jon Weisman
10 - No, I won't get worked up about it either. I mean, if the voters decide that two months of Manny are more valuable than six months of Pujols, because the Cardinals missed the playoffs (even if the Cardinals win more games than the Dodgers), what are you gonna do?
2008-09-16 09:35:16
15.   ToyCannon
Pujols has to win with Chipper and Lance getting some votes. Manny doesn't belong in the conversation with these guys. If he was really any good we wouldn't have lost 8 games in a row and we would have a 15 game winning streak instead of being 13 - 2.
2008-09-16 09:35:37
16.   underdog
8 Cats are like people -- some of them are crazy, some of them are sweet and wonderful (and a few are like my cat Sam, all three). Bitey cats are annoying to me, too, though most are not like that. Some of them can even learn to cook you breakfast (I have a very well-trained cat-household.)

9 As long as he doesn't hit any more of those... home run thinggies... we should be okay. Apocalypse averted.

2008-09-16 09:37:33
17.   Bob Timmermann
I have a cat that likes to bite. You learn to deal with it.
2008-09-16 09:37:47
18.   dkminnick
I hope I'm wrong, but I fully expect our playoff future to be decided at the last series at PhoneCo Park.
2008-09-16 09:38:27
19.   bhsportsguy
A year ago the Dodgers were 1.5 games back of the Wild Card leaders (Padres and Phillies) with a 79-69 record, they lost a home game against the D-Backs and then had that awful double-header in Colorado. They would lose 7 straight and 9 out of 10, Kent would blast the clubhouse, I took a leave from DT and Grady would soon be heading back to North Carolina.
2008-09-16 09:38:29
20.   ToyCannon
Lowe does have a 2.25 ERA at Citizen Bank and an excellent record at Wrigley.
2008-09-16 09:38:38
21.   Johnson
11 If the Phillies and Mets tie for first place, the only reason they'd play a tiebreaker game would be if the Wild Card came from the Central. In that case, we'd be playing the Cubs (or, in the unlikely case that we actually finish above the Phillies/Mets, the Wild Card team). If they have to blow Santana/Hamels in Game 163, it won't help us.
2008-09-16 09:39:11
22.   underdog
17 And throw up, because "that's what cats do, they throw up."


This is a week old, but Cubs fans are rooting for the Dodgers because they'll be "easy."

Fine with me. Though I'd rather not play the Cubs first round, that's for sure.

2008-09-16 09:39:38
23.   underdog
18 I hope you're wrong, too, and I have tix for that series.
2008-09-16 09:40:14
24.   old dodger fan
12 Friday is what worries me. Let's see what Haren does today and Webb tomorrow. I never thought I'd say it but, "Go Giants".
2008-09-16 09:40:22
25.   Eric Stephen
If that is the case, I hope has reasonable last-minute rates.
2008-09-16 09:41:05
26.   Xeifrank
18. I hope you are wrong too. In order for that to be the case, the DBacks would've had to cut the lead to three games or less. I would feel pretty good about the three game lead going into the PhoneCo, a two game lead would start to make me a little edgy, anything less than that and I would have to leave the country. Oh wait, I am. Good luck that last weekend and in the first two rounds of the playoffs.
vr, Xei
2008-09-16 09:44:31
27.   Xeifrank
21. Correct me if I am missing something here, but if the Mets and Phillies tied, and both finished above the Brewers/Astros etc..., wouldn't they need to play a game to determine who the WC was? The Dodgers could not play the Cubs in that scenario, as the Phillies and Mets aren't allowed to face each other in the first round.
vr, Xei
2008-09-16 09:44:38
28.   cargill06
7 With 12 games left, 6 against SF (Cain once), 3 against Pitt., 3 against SD (Peavy once). At worst I'd expect a 6-6 record, forcing Arizona to go 11-2 just to tie. I'm not nervous one bit.
2008-09-16 09:45:50
29.   bhsportsguy
The way I figure it, if we make it through Kershaw, Maddux and Kuroda and don't lose any ground to the D-Backs, I have faith in Lowe and Billingsley to match up with Haren and Webb.
2008-09-16 09:46:18
30.   ToyCannon
Silly man, cats only bite those who have views that are found to be at odds with the universe. Like being a USC and Raider fan. Sometimes being only one can be negated but when they are a combination it is a cats duty to bite and maim. In their eyes you are just a Peter Pettigrew.
2008-09-16 09:46:34
31.   cargill06
27 If the WC comes from the NL East and the Mets and Phils are tied. Head-to-Head record would determine divison winner is. IE Dodgers/Padres 2006.
2008-09-16 09:47:07
32.   bhsportsguy
27 No, if both teams qualify for the playoffs, they would use a series of tiebreakers the first being head to head which I believe per the Griddle, the Mets won.
2008-09-16 09:47:15
33.   ToyCannon
I never mentioned a tie-breaker game. I said I wanted them to waste them on Sunday, the last day of the season.
2008-09-16 09:47:28
34.   Eric Stephen
A playoff game would only be played to determine a single playoff spot. If both the Mets and Phillies are assured playoff spots, tiebreakers will be used to determine which one is the division winner and wild card.

The first tiebreaker is head-to-head, and the Mets won the season series, 11-7.

2008-09-16 09:48:36
35.   Eric Stephen
They would need the Brewers to be in the mix to waste Hamels and Santana on the final day.
2008-09-16 09:48:38
36.   Xeifrank
31/32. Ok, that seems like the best way to resolve it, since both are in. Better renew my subscription to the Griddle. vr, Xei
2008-09-16 09:49:26
37.   Tripon
Vincent (London): What do you expect the Red Sox to do about catcher next year? I bet Theo is slightly regretting the trades of Bard and Shoppach (though he has had a golden touch on most other moves).

SportsNation Rob Neyer: (12:16 PM ET ) My guess? They make a trade for one of the Rangers' young catchers. They also try to re-sign Captain Tek, but some other team trying to emulate the Sox makes him an offer he can't refuse.

Who else are trying to emulate the Red Sox besides the Dodgers?

2008-09-16 09:49:56
38.   Kuo-fax
I know Penny has looked horrible in his two appearances, but I have to agree with him that I hope we wrap up the NL West asap, so we can throw him out there for a start, just to see. Odds are slim, but what if he just needs some innings to regain his composure?

A strong Penny would make a great #4 for the playoffs. A long shot, but one can dream!

2008-09-16 09:50:26
39.   old dodger fan
MLB sets 2008 posteason schedule

2008-09-16 09:50:27
40.   Eric Stephen
Like being a USC and Raider fan

I expect bad things to happen to Huggie Bear, Jr., as other USC/Raider combos have not ended well:

1) Todd Marinovich
2) Darrell Russell
3) Cole Ford

2008-09-16 09:51:31
41.   ToyCannon
Exactly, the last day of the season will hopefully be very interesting for the rest of the league while we are starting James McDonald and Russel Martin is getting three days of whirlpool treatments.
2008-09-16 09:54:33
42.   Bob Hendley
As I recall, even Good Penny tended to get rocked in the first few innings before settling down. Isn't that his MO?
2008-09-16 09:56:56
43.   ToyCannon
I agree, I'd skip Kershaw's and let Penny/McDonald do a rotation spot. We need to find out right now if Penny can help the postseason roster and pitching one inning every 4 days is not going to cut it.
2008-09-16 10:00:07
44.   SortaLaSorda
Something that should be considered in Manny MVP talk: He has had a substantial impact not just for the Dodgers, but also on the NL West, and perhaps the entire National League. Are the D-Backs still in first place hovering at .500 if LA doesn't pick him up? Do the Dodgers have this division-shaking run without him? His impact, one could argue, has influenced much more than just the Dodgers...
2008-09-16 10:00:43
45.   Eric Stephen
Since I have to travel from SD, I'll be able to see Games 3 & 4 in round 1 (Sat/Sun).

I'll be rooting for the wild card team in the other series so the Dodgers will have home field in the NLCS (home games Thu/Fri/Fri/Sat).

World Series home games will be Sat/Sun/Mon. This is working out good for my schedule.

The final possible World Series home game is Game 5, which is scheduled for October 27. That happens to be my mom's birthday. My mom passed away in February. That sounds like a sign to me!

2008-09-16 10:04:18
46.   old dodger fan
Playoff thoughts! I love it. We should do this every year.
2008-09-16 10:05:45
47.   fanerman
46 I'm still knocking on wood.
2008-09-16 10:11:43
48.   Bob Timmermann
But will the Angels, who are pretty likely going to finish with the best record in the AL, pick the long division series schedule or the short one?

I would assume the Angels would use a playoff rotation of Lackey, Santana, and Garland and use the schedule with the extra day off and skip Saunders.

If the Angels were to play Boston, who would be the Game 1 starter: Beckett, Matsuzaka, or Lester? The Rays could start Kazmir, but he might be running out of gas. I would think the Rays would hope to be able to get by with just Kazmir, Shields, and Garza.

But don't be surprised if Price ends up on the playoff roster.

2008-09-16 10:22:27
49.   Xeifrank
48. Any chance the Angels would use Weaver as a post-season starter?
vr, Xei
2008-09-16 10:29:24
50.   old dodger fan
47 1962 made me a worrier. On 9/15/62 we had a 4 game lead, finished 3-10 and tied by the Giants. We lost a horrible 3 game playoff. Believe it or not the 3rd game winner was Don Larsen (in relief of Marichal). Sorry for the ancient history.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-09-16 10:32:20
51.   Bob Hendley
Using SI player data, all I can access right now, Penny in his 17 starts this year has about the same BAA and K ratios in innings 1-3 as compared to 4-6; however his BBs drop from 5.12 per 9 to 2.7 in innings 4-6 and the number of dingers drops from 8 to 4.
2008-09-16 10:36:27
52.   Tripon

Baseball America did a redraft of 2006 with 20/20 hindsight. Apparently, we would end up with Travis Snider

2008-09-16 10:36:51
53.   Disabled List
I remember 1991 well. That wasn't a brutal final-week collapse, but more like a continual drip-drip-drip from mid-August on. It was pure, slow torture. So let's not tempt fate here.

I don't want to end up like a lot of my Mets fan friends, who were walking around in a drooling stupor after the end of last season. (Although that's often a normal state for them any time of year.)

2008-09-16 10:40:38
54.   berkowit28
It's quite possible that Phillies win NL East, without tiebreakers, with the Mets the Wild Card, and Cubs the best NL record. In that case, we'd play the Phillies. I'm hoping that the Mets somehow manage to eke out top spot in NL East. At this point, I'd fancy our chances against the Mets rather than the Phillies, who seem resurgent, like us.
2008-09-16 10:42:07
55.   Disabled List
What happens if the Brewers, Mets and Phillies all finish with the same record?
2008-09-16 10:45:56
56.   Bob Timmermann
Mets and Phillies play tiebreaker for NL East crown. Loser plays Milwaukee to settle the wild card the next day.
2008-09-16 10:47:13
57.   Bob Timmermann
I'm not overly sanguine about the chances of either of the top two teams in the NL East moving past the first round of the playoffs. They both have a lot of pitching problems.
2008-09-16 10:47:55
58.   bhsportsguy
56 Read The Griddle.
2008-09-16 10:50:20
59.   Bob Hendley
58 - Isn't it enough that he has to write it?
2008-09-16 10:51:55
60.   SG6
5 - Good thing the Wiki listing for Baranof Warm Springs matches up:

Baranof Warm Springs is a very small community, having only one year round resident.

I grew up watching Lund, so thanks for passing that along.

2008-09-16 10:53:12
61.   Bob Hendley
56 - That would be neat.
2008-09-16 10:54:05
62.   Harold M Johnson
Pujols in the MVP, he's had another monster season. The Cards may not be in the Playoffs, but they're a winning team and they've got that many wins in large part because of Pujols.
2008-09-16 10:54:21
63.   bhsportsguy
60 Elmer Dills was a constant of my childhood, I always envied anyone who got to eat food and get paid for it. He also always had a charming female companion.
2008-09-16 10:54:21
64.   Bob Hendley
56 - That would be neat.
2008-09-16 11:01:35
65.   cargill06
In 40.1 IP this year Jeff Karstens has a 15:11 K:BB ratio and has surrendered 6 HR's. In his 97.2 career IP he has a 36:31 K:BB ratio and has surrendered 16 HR's.

I like our chances tonight.

2008-09-16 11:03:43
66.   old dodger fan
Lowe vs Karstens
Cain vs Haren

We just need to win one of them.

2008-09-16 11:11:25
67.   Bob Hendley
56 - That would be...nevermind.
2008-09-16 11:13:42
68.   Eric Stephen
On June 14, Brad Penny had a horrible start on Fox in Detroit, giving up 7 runs in 3.2 IP in a loss.

After that game, Dodger starters had a 16-31 record, a 4.56 ERA, and a 1.42 WHIP. They had a BB/K per 9 ratio of 3.5/6.45.

Since that day (starting with 4 shutout innings in the rain by Kershaw), Dodger starters are 36-21, with a 3.35 ERA and a 1.22 WHIP, and a BB/K ratio of 2.49/7.15 per 9.

2008-09-16 11:19:35
69.   ToyCannon
That will get it done.
2008-09-16 11:20:19
70.   Eric Stephen
I forgot to mention, Sunday's Dodger loss eliminated the following from the Dodger Thoughts record prediction contest:

Molly Knight
Inside Baseball
Ken Noe
Bob Hendley

All of those people predicted a 91-71 record.

2008-09-16 11:20:32
71.   ToyCannon
We totally need a pitcher with a name of Abel.
2008-09-16 11:22:28
72.   D4P
But Cain kills Abel...
2008-09-16 11:22:47
73.   D4P
Not to be confused with Mc Cain.
2008-09-16 11:25:20
74.   KG16
49 - Weaver would probably get a start in a 7 game series, but I doubt in a 5 game series.

I'm already starting to plot the Freeway Series. Think ESPN will be as crazy about that as they were the Subway Series? Yeah, me neither.

2008-09-16 11:26:07
75.   fanerman
70 89 and I'm sticking to it!
2008-09-16 11:26:43
76.   ToyCannon
Who cares about ESPN, this town will be jacked.
2008-09-16 11:27:30
77.   fanerman
72 But Abel is the good guy.
2008-09-16 11:27:48
78.   bhsportsguy
76 Are you going this weekend?
2008-09-16 11:29:26
79.   D4P
Abel is definitely better at sacrificing.
2008-09-16 11:31:16
80.   Eric Stephen
After the aforementioned Kershaw start on June 15 (a Chan Ho Park relief loss to Detroit), the Dodgers were 31-38. Here are the NL records since that date:

NY 50-31
Hou 47-32
LA 47-34
Mil 47-34
Chi 45-33
Phi 42-37
Fla 40-40
Col 40-42
SF 38-42
StL 36-42
Ari 36-43
Cin 35-43
Atl 33-47
Pit 29-51
Was 28-51
SD 27-53

2008-09-16 11:32:39
81.   Eric Stephen
Or a hitter named Adam, to raise a Cain pitch into the seats. D'oh!
2008-09-16 11:36:09
82.   Tripon
Too much to ask for a pitcher named Moses?
2008-09-16 11:36:26
83.   ToyCannon
Saturday, Tuesday, and Thursday round me out.
2008-09-16 11:36:59
84.   cargill06
80 Hey my math tells me that they played at a 94 win clip for half a season.
2008-09-16 11:37:00
85.   old dodger fan
81 Adam? Dunn!
2008-09-16 11:38:19
86.   KG16
76 - oh, I know everyone out here would be jacked. but I'm just wondering if ESPN would play it up like they did the Subway Series. I seriously doubt it, kind of like when the Angels played the Giants, it was like the play offs ended a week earlier.
2008-09-16 11:39:24
87.   KG16
82 - having De*Jesus* isn't enough for you?
2008-09-16 11:39:25
88.   ToyCannon
So we have been better then the Cubs over the last 81 games but we don't stand a chance against them. Go figure.

I remember Joey P burying us the day Furcal went down and I probably thought he was right. Hard to see how this team was going to win without him and an outfield of Kemp/Jones/Pierre and a struggling DeWitt at 3rd base. Yet here we are having premature Playoff Thoughts.

2008-09-16 11:42:06
89.   ToyCannon
The Twins had a 3rd base prospect drafted the same year as DeWitt named Moses but he failed to find the path.
2008-09-16 11:42:44
90.   Eric Stephen
Meanwhile, Arizona prepares for a premature evacuation of their season.
2008-09-16 11:43:10
91.   KG16
89 - give him 40 years...
2008-09-16 11:43:44
92.   underdog
87 Don' mess with de Jesus.
2008-09-16 11:44:16
93.   underdog
90 Oh man... {whap!} ;-)
2008-09-16 11:45:36
94.   bhsportsguy
The Mets fired their manager at that same time and the Astros were 14-19 until starting a a current 33-13 run.
2008-09-16 11:49:23
95.   old dodger fan
90 Could this be their Eve of Destruction?
2008-09-16 11:50:25
96.   bhsportsguy
Guess who made the Old-Timers ballot for the HOF, a hint, check out the link name.

2008-09-16 11:51:14
97.   underdog
From LAIst:

"You know things are going right for the Dodgers. Hiroki Kuroda won a road game. Juan Pierre hits a homer. Takaishi Saito came back from a hurt elbow and pitched a scoreless inning again. The only thing missing was an Arizona loss. No matter, with the win the Dodgers magic number is now nine. Kuroda pitched seven innings giving up three hits and no runs (in only 83 pitches!) Manny continued to fuel the Dodgers with a two-run double and James Loney had three RBIs. Plus, and we cant stress this enough... JUAN PIERRE HIT A HOMER."

2008-09-16 11:52:28
98.   LAT
As I see it, the meaningful diffrence between the Dodgers and the Mets, Phills and Huston is that these other teams are the same team they were at the begining of the season. For better or worse. Their records are represenative of who they are. The Dodgers have made substanital moves that explains their improved record. Manny, Blake and finally playing Ethier.
2008-09-16 11:54:17
99.   ToyCannon

Only 4,000 seems like a bargain. Dodger Stadium Ushers could use them to shred beach balls and pester annoying fans.

2008-09-16 11:54:52
100.   fanerman
97 So it really happened huh?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-09-16 11:56:25
101.   Xeifrank
Simulator right now giving the Dodgers around a 58% chance of winning tonight. This is with Ethier and Nomar in the lineup for Pierre and Blake.
vr, Xei
2008-09-16 11:58:43
102.   cargill06
Cano is in Girardi's dog house.

Maybe we can take that problem off their hands?

2008-09-16 12:01:51
103.   Tripon
Lets not. Cano wouldn't be a better 2nd baseman than DeWitt, and the Dodgers might just let DeWitt stay in Triple-A next year and still seek a vet at 3rd base. Plus Cano's contract and his inability to live up to it.
2008-09-16 12:03:12
104.   bhsportsguy
98 Forget about the games, how did your test go the other day?
2008-09-16 12:04:25
105.   Jon Weisman
2008-09-16 12:04:34
106.   cargill06
103 Really? A 25 year old, 108 career OPS+ 2B, who appears to be at least an average defensive 2B and only made $3 million this year.
2008-09-16 12:04:43
107.   regfairfield
What the heck happened to Cano this year? I don't think anyone thought Pedroia was a better player than him coming into the year and then he just completely collapses.

I'd still gladly take him off the Yankees hands, but before this year I probably would have traded anyone in the organization for him.

2008-09-16 12:07:33
108.   Tripon
Cano's earning $28 million for the 08-11 seasons with $12 million options for 12 and 13. If he stays at league average, his contract would suck hard. Cano would be a rich man's Berroa.
2008-09-16 12:10:01
109.   Tripon
106 And he OPS+ ing 81 this year. Forget about the supposed reasons why he's slumping, with Bowa and Torre kicking his ass to be above league average. Trading for a guy with his contracts makes me pause, we should try to rebuild from within where we can.

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