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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
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10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

A New Twist on 1980?
2008-09-22 12:54
by Jon Weisman

Jim McLennan of AZ Snakepit (one of my favorite non-Dodger blogs) looked at the tentative pitching matchups for the remainder of the season and realized that in a winner-take-all National League West playoff game, the starting pitchers would be 23-year-old rookie Max Scherzer vs. 20-year-old rookie Clayton Kershaw.

But which would be the truer twist on 1980 - aside from the Dodgers winning? The once-in-a-generation phenom starting for the Dodgers, or James McDonald: the relatively unheralded September callup who pitches shutout ball in relief and then makes his first major league start in the season's 163rd game? In a way, McDonald fits the prototype better for those still bitter about Dave Goltz.

Not that I'm saying McDonald will make the start. That's just crazy talk, right? Even if Kershaw is tired ... ?

* * *

Diamondbacks at Cardinals, 5:15 p.m.

Update: From Awful Announcing via Tom Hoffarth's Farther Off the Wall, which had the original scoop: sports announcer Al Michaels' appearance as a lawyer on Hawaii Five-O.

Al Michaels Hawaii Five-O
by bsap11

Comments (582)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-09-22 13:10:05
1.   Reddog
I don't like that matchup. Scherzer has pitched really well, and I would not feel too great about our chances in a Kershaw vs Scherzer winner-take-all game.

From the last thread, I really believe McCourt would not allow Colletti to trade Kemp. I think one reason we still have Kemp, and some of the other young Dodgers, is not that Colletti hasn't wanted to trade them, but that McCourt has vetoed those proposed trades.

2008-09-22 13:15:29
2.   Bluebleeder87
Kemp is only 23 years old, I think we're gonna find out what he brings to the dance in the next 1 or 2 years.
2008-09-22 13:16:36
3.   Bob Timmermann
Kemp is only 23 years old
I predict that statement will not be true tomorrow.
2008-09-22 13:18:03
4.   Bluebleeder87
you gonna wonder who his comparables are at that age.
2008-09-22 13:18:56
5.   KG16
Neither McDonald nor Kershaw will pitch game #163.

Mainly because there will be no game #163. The Dodgers will clinch on Friday in Phone Book Park

2008-09-22 13:20:24
6.   Tripon
Better Kershaw than Maddux.
2008-09-22 13:21:55
7.   Tripon
Well, with the current run on oil, and stock prices are down. has returned to showing dumb people on wall street again.
2008-09-22 13:22:53
8.   underdog
Darnit, I forgot to get a Happy Birthday card for the Bison.


re: end of last thread, I just can't see Manny ending up in Seattle, not unless he wants to lose for awhile, become more obscure and get bored quickly (with the team, not the city). No offense to Seattle or anything. I would just be surprised. I would also be surprised if he ended up a Yankee. I think duck's 40% chance for Manny returning to LA sounds about right to me.

2008-09-22 13:24:22
9.   Gilberto Reyes
1 I would not like our chances against Scherzer either, whether it is against Kershaw or McDonald.

McDonald better fits the role of Fernando in 1980 than Kershaw does because he is more of an unknown, and therefore a more risky start.

People seem to forget how risky the thought of Fernando starting that 1980 game was before Fernandomania took off in 1981. The Dodgers didn't realize what they had in Fernando yet. Nobody really did.

And yes, I am one of those still bitter about Dave Goltz. I attended that playoff game as a 15 year old.

2008-09-22 13:26:18
10.   cargill06
5 Sounds about right to me.
2008-09-22 13:26:33
11.   Tripon
8 I think the Cubs are going to make a run on Manny. They currently have Reed Johnson, Edmonds, and Fukudome for the corner OF spots. And the Cubs are being sold to Mark Cuban, a guy who is notorious of signing overpriced Vets with the Dallas Mavericks.

And Cubs fans are passionate, but the media is less vicious as New York or Boston would be.

2008-09-22 13:28:43
12.   Jon Weisman
1 - Well, we did win a Scherzer game two weeks ago. He struck out 11 but allowed three runs in five innings.

9 - This has been oft-discussed on DT. I agree with you, except to clarify that it wasn't that the thought of Fernando starting was risky - it wasn't even a thought that was considered at all.

Eric Enders' antennae just went up.

2008-09-22 13:30:10
13.   Tripon
Rex Hudler is trying to sell you Rally Monkeys. How in the heck does he still have a job?
2008-09-22 13:30:22
14.   Bluebleeder87
Jim McLennan makes a good point, but you gotta wonder how a 45 year old Johnson can hold up & I'm not sure Haren can hold up as well, I'm sure Webb will, Scherzer is a beast & a half. Yikes.

for entertainment purposes, BRING IT ON! :o)

2008-09-22 13:32:09
15.   Eric Stephen
I predict Mark Cuban will have a tough time entering the MLB owners club, especially since the clubs are not always sold to the highest bidder.
2008-09-22 13:35:01
16.   Bluebleeder87
I totally forgot about Scherzer, He's had (what?) 3 starts against us right.
2008-09-22 13:37:08
17.   KG16
11 - I'm thinking the Cubs are going to be the only possible suitors for Manny besides the Dodgers. At least at the price that Manny is going to command. The Mets are a possibility, but I'm not sure they're going to want to take on additional payroll. The Yankees just don't make sense to me as a possible destination.
2008-09-22 13:42:13
18.   Tripon
15 Sam Zell is going to want the highest possible bidder for the Cubs. He's not interested in giving MLB a 'break' unless its worthwhile for him.
2008-09-22 13:44:44
19.   FirstMohican
Not sure if this has been discussed in previous posts: Giants Manager Bruce Bochy will do his part by taking advantage of his team's off day today to move up Tim Lincecum's next start to Tuesday. By doing that, Bochy will be able to send Lincecum to face the Dodgers on the last day of the regular season on Sunday.

He's already thrown 215 innings after only pitching 150 last year. Isn't there anyone in that organization with the sense to stop Sabean or Bochy from doing this?

2008-09-22 13:45:36
20.   kinbote
0 How dare you give up on Stults! ;)
2008-09-22 13:45:44
21.   Eric Stephen
But the owner has to be approved by the other owners and Selig. It's not like it's only a two party transaction.
2008-09-22 13:50:18
22.   Bluebleeder87
I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the politics of baseball.
2008-09-22 13:51:26
23.   kinbote
19 Maybe the higher-ups are too busy thinking about marketing a Cy Young winner?
2008-09-22 13:52:13
24.   fanerman
19 Yeah... I don't get it either...
2008-09-22 13:52:57
25.   Eric Stephen
It's much easier to understand the politics of dancing, which I believe are exempt from Rule 5.

2008-09-22 13:58:07
26.   Ken Noe
Fresh from the narcissism embodied in the hyped end of the Yankee Stadium, Yankee management apparently still believes that the rest of baseball consists of the KC Athletics, willing to trade their brightest talent for unwanted dregs. Kemp for Cano is a trade only the Yankees and their compliant press could find rational. The only real story involves ego.
2008-09-22 13:58:55
27.   Eric Stephen
The Cardinals have won 14 of the last 20 games at home against Arizona, dating back to 2001.
2008-09-22 14:03:20
28.   KG16
23 - that's got to be a huge part of it. If Lincecum wins the Cy Young award (and really, he probably should) they can then lay claim to "the Best Young Pitcher In Baseball" (or at least the National League). And that might actually help with going after free agents, "look, we've got a great pool of young pitchers, in fact, we've got a Cy Young award winner not named Zito. That'll take pressure off you're offensive production. Please come play for us."
2008-09-22 14:04:09
29.   ToyCannon
0 It will soon be a moot point.
2008-09-22 14:09:27
30.   scareduck
15 - there was a rumor recently that Cuban was ejected from the inner circle of Cubs bidders, with no reason given.
2008-09-22 14:10:37
31.   scareduck
0 - was there a particular Snakepit post you wanted to link to, Jon? Because you just linked to his front page.
2008-09-22 14:12:19
32.   ToyCannon
After Kemp signs the same kind of deal that Cano signed it will come down to talent and not money. Good thing Kemp turned out to be a decent CF because as a corner outfielder he's very pedestrian. Age is on his side but it was also on Cano's side after he posted a 126 OPS+ at the age of 23. If I was a Yankee fan I'd expect no less then Kemp like talent for Cano. They think Cano is better then he is and most of us think Kemp is better then he is. Cano sucked this year, Kemp was average. The plate discipline is not getting any better but he's now a center fielder so at least there is that.
2008-09-22 14:17:04
33.   Gilberto Reyes
12 It was those 11 strikeouts and Scherzer's ability to mow through the lineup that concerned me. He was really on a roll for a stretch during that game until he ran out of gas and was removed.

I don't recall Fernando being considered for the start either. There was a lot less media speculation during those days without the internet, etc.

2008-09-22 14:18:15
34.   Jon Weisman
32 - Fixed, thanks.
2008-09-22 14:18:57
35.   Eric Stephen
The Times mentioned the Dodgers are waiting to see how Lowe recovers from his 120-pitch outing yesterday to decide whether or not to pitch him Friday or Saturday in SF. If he pitches Friday, he will be on regular rest and will have him in line to start a potential Game 1 of the NLDS Wednesday, Oct 1, also on regular rest.

Not to get too far ahead of myself, but Billingsley pitching tomorrow means his next start on regular rest would be Sunday. Lets hope he is not needed on that day, so that he can pitch well-rested on Oct 2 (with maybe a weekend bullpen stint to stay sharp).

Again, sorry for the pre-hatching counting, but I'm just laying things out there since they need to be planned in advance anyway.

2008-09-22 14:34:29
36.   Kevin Lewis
Not that I would want to ship off Kemp...but what takers would be out there. Could we get a good haul that wouldn't leave us weaker, or do we let him continue to grow. I love his talent, and it has been fun to watch him improve this year, but he needs to work on the discipline.
2008-09-22 14:42:39
37.   MC Safety
Why would anyone in their right mind want to trade Matt Kemp?
2008-09-22 14:43:27
38.   KG16
what are the plate discipline issues with Kemp?

If it's the fact that he doesn't draw a lot of walks, that seems strange to me.

Kemp swings at a lot of pitches that would otherwise be strikes, he just misses them. Yes, he does swing at pitches out of the zone, but so does Martin, and, really, just about every hitter to ever play the game.

Kemp also tends to strike out looking a lot. Is that disciplined? Or is that poor pitch recognition?

2008-09-22 14:43:48
39.   KG16
also, what 37 said
2008-09-22 14:45:29
40.   cargill06
37 , 39

If the right offer came through why would you want to not want to trade Kemp?

2008-09-22 14:45:31
41.   kinbote
36 I honestly can't think of a single realistic scenario in which we trade Kemp and end up better. I also won't speculate on any trade in which he's packaged with dead weight or moved to make room for dead weight.
2008-09-22 14:47:32
42.   Tripon
Kemp for Johan Santana.
2008-09-22 14:48:01
43.   KG16
40 - if I were GM, Kemp would be on the untouchable list. Unless it was a three team deal that landed the Dodgers A-Rod and Lincecum for Kemp and some prospects, there's no reason I'd consider trading him now.

He's still got the most upside of any of the young players and will likely be a superstar. I would prefer he be a superstar on my team than somewhere else.

2008-09-22 14:49:52
44.   Kevin Lewis

Then he stays for sure. But it is not like the right price wouldn't move him. I was just wondering if there was a feasible "right price" out there.

2008-09-22 14:50:00
45.   kinbote
40 What's the right trade offer going to bring us? We don't need to swap hitting for pitching, and we certainly don't have a surplus of productive outfielders.

The Giants might well trade Matt Cain for young hitting because they just can't seem to develop it [this is changing]. It makes sense for their organization to try to balance their pitching/hitting ledger. We have no such need.

2008-09-22 14:50:30
46.   cargill06
43 If we had 4 capable OF's and trading Kemp can help your team, why not?

Like I said earlier this isn't a rumor, but Hardy has been a much better baseball player than Kemp in the last 2 years and he's club controlled for '09 and '10.

2008-09-22 14:52:03
47.   Tripon
45 Giants have Travis Ishikawa, unless he's moved in a trade, or can play the outfield, it seems counterproductive trading Cain for Fielder.
2008-09-22 14:55:21
48.   kinbote
44 I have my issues with Colletti, but I don't see any team matching up with us on Kemp. This is partly because we have in-house options at almost every position. Strange to say, we have few needs. Of course he could be traded for the right price, but to the Dodgers, the right price should be exorbitant.
2008-09-22 14:59:12
49.   Tripon
48 The Dodgers problem is being resistant of allowing those household assets of being promoted to the big leagues. The Dodgers had to be pulled into allowing Bills to start over Tomko, Kemp starting in CF, and we saw what happened at 3rd. I have to say that Kershaw is about the only player I can think that has the smooth transition to the Dodgers considering everything.
2008-09-22 14:59:14
50.   bhsportsguy
I still think Matt Kemp projects to be this type of player.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-09-22 14:59:50
51.   KG16
The Dodgers' needs for next year will be:

1. left field
2. third base
3. short stop
4. fifth starter

My way of dealing with this would be:

1. resign Manny (I'd be willing to go as high as 4 years)
2. resign Blake for 2 years and look to develop an in house replacement
3. Hu
4. I'm crazy enough to hand over the rotation to all the young guns (Billingsly, Kuroda, Kershaw, McDonald, Elbert/Stultz) and see what happens, otherwise, I'd look for a bargain back end guy.

2008-09-22 15:00:28
52.   Gilberto Reyes
43 I like Matt Kemp and would not like to see him traded, but I would not call him untouchable.

There are other young players under 25, who I would value over Kemp such as Hanley Ramirez, Tim Lincecum, Felix Hernandez, and Ryan Braun.

2008-09-22 15:00:51
53.   bhsportsguy
49 Scan all of baseball and find how many teams start players 23 and younger. This is more of product of drafting high school playrs who are still in the early 20's when they have reached AA unlike college players who are older.
2008-09-22 15:01:11
54.   cargill06
51 I'm for your plan but, I'd prefer a Dewitt, Hu, DeJesus, Loney infield.
2008-09-22 15:02:13
55.   KG16
50 - I really, really want to believe that Kemp will be more like this guy

But that might be shooting a little too high.

2008-09-22 15:02:44
56.   ToyCannon
If Luis Gonzalez had put up the year that Kemp did this year when he played for us in 2007 he'd been ridden out of town on a rail. Oh wait, he did have that kind of year.

They gave Kemp his 500 at bats and he gave us an average season. In fact I don't see one offensive player under the age of 26 who was impressive. The more at bats Kemp and Loney got the more their OPS+ dropped faster then the Dow Jones. I won't even beat the dead horse that is Martins slug% since the all-star break.

Next year at this time I hope they have rebounded and cashed in on the promise they showed in 2007 but let's face it, 2008 was not a growth year for these guys and all of them are tradable for the right package.

2008-09-22 15:03:08
57.   underdog
51 Kuroda is flattered to be considered a "young gun." :-) But I agree. My guess is the rotation will skew young next season but they will sign one more veteran. Maybe not Sabathia, but someone else to mix in, with the loss of Lowe.

47 Prince Fielder can eat Travis Ishikawa for breakfast.

2008-09-22 15:03:53
58.   Tripon
54 Sign Casey Blake to a 2 year deal, and then move DeWitt to 3rd to let DeJesus to play 2nd.

Unless Hu can fix his vision problems, I can't see him as more of a bench player.

2008-09-22 15:04:42
59.   cargill06
50 This is what I said in Jan./Feb. (offensively only)

2008-09-22 15:04:44
60.   Bob Timmermann
Prince Fielder can eat Travis Ishikawa for breakfast.

Prince Fielder is a vegetarian.

2008-09-22 15:05:55
61.   KG16
54 - I wouldn't mind your infield alignment. But I think Blake gives DeWitt a bit more time to develop the power that the team will need. And I have to wonder if DeJesus is ready to make the jump.
2008-09-22 15:06:02
62.   cargill06
50 But I think yours maybe more accurate.
2008-09-22 15:07:07
63.   underdog
56 To be fair, I don't see too many offensive players under the age of 25-26 in the majors in general who are consistently impressive, Evan Longoria notwithstanding (and who knows, he could regress next season, too, though I doubt it). Kemp is not only young but relatively inexperienced still when it comes to baseball. I see him getting better. Martin has definitely slumped but it is possibly due to playing/catching so often as well as basically having a sophomore slump of sorts. He has too much talent for me to write off or anything even close to that.
2008-09-22 15:07:49
64.   underdog
60 But Ishikawa is a straw man.
2008-09-22 15:08:01
65.   Disabled List
I hate to say it, but I agree with TC. The Dodgers offense, geared around the kids, was just about nonexistent in the period between Furcal's injury and Manny's arrival. They are all excellent complimentary players, but they can't carry a team. They need that monster bat in the lineup to really click.

Maybe Kemp can develop into a monster. But I doubt very much that Ethier, Martin or Loney ever will.

2008-09-22 15:08:39
66.   Eric Stephen
2006 Final Week Heroes (Dodgers finish 6-0)
James Loney: 6-12, 10 RBI, .500/.538/1.333
Marlon Anderson: 7-18, 2 HR, .389/.421/.889
J.D. Drew: 6-17, 7 RBI, .353/.429/.765
Kenny Lofton: 8-22, 8 runs, 2 3B, HR, .364/.391/.682
Olmedo Saenz: 2-2, BB :)
Greg Maddux: 2 starts, 2-0, 13 IP, 3.46 ERA

2004 Final Week Heroes (Dodgers finish 4-3)
Steve Finley: walk-off GS
Ishii/Lima/Odalis: back-to-back-to-back 7+ IP, 1 R performances

1995 Final Week Heroes (Dodgers finish 4-2)
Raul Mondesi: 8-17, 5 RBI, .471/.471/.706
Eric Karros: 6-19, .316/.458/.684
Hideo Nomo: 2 starts, 2-0, 13 IP, 1.38 ERA

*I left of 1996 because it left a bad taste in my mouth even though the club mad the playoffs.

2008-09-22 15:09:46
67.   Tripon
56 Both Kemp and Martin play positions where defense is valued as much as their offensive potential, and at catcher, I'd say Martin's defense and play calling matters more to me than his offense.

Its not as if we're trying to fit 9 Manny Rameriez on the field. And young players can and will take a step back in order to take a step forward. But they haven't regressed to the point where we should be actively looking to trade these players. I'd take Kemp over any young outfielder in the game today, including SCY, or Upton. We should allow Kemp to grow, and I doubt that we seen Kemp's peak as a player.

2008-09-22 15:10:13
68.   MC Safety

Most of what you said was spot on. We're looking good right now, but you're right, we haven't really been tested. That said, I've heard from a few people close say ManU is in for a shocker. Rooney's fitness and quality has really been lacking from what I've heard. I wouldn't be so quick to guarantee 15 in a row with the question marks you guys have. First things first, Fergie needs to find someone who can find the net.

As far as Bendtner goes, I have a lot of confidence in his ability. He's niftier than I thought with the ball, plus he can hurt you in the air. Overall, I think he's a decent option. And ever since the Fulham shocker, Denilson has played brilliantly. I think you're right about him becoming a special player, too. Looking into the future, there's a lot to like between Denilson and Walcott. I also like the young Mexican, Carlos Vela. Can't wait to see more of him.

2008-09-22 15:10:22
69.   underdog
Who needs those guys to develop into "monsters"? If those are our expectations for them, then they'll of course never realize them. A hitter like Manny Ramirez is a complete rarity. I'll take a team of guys getting on base and driving in runs, and I think all of those are capable of being that. Monsters, no, I don't see them doing that, though Ethier proved to us the past month or so that he is more than capable of at least monstrous spurts.
2008-09-22 15:12:40
70.   KG16
If you believe that Martin, Loney, Ethier, and Kemp have reached their ceilings, then yes, they should be tradable. However, does anyone really believe that any of them have reached their ceilings?

Or are you just rooting for laundry?

2008-09-22 15:13:20
71.   cargill06
67 Upton for Kemp? I'd say nice knowing you Matt good luck in Arizona.
2008-09-22 15:13:29
72.   DodgerBakers
Re: Matt Kemp's strikeouts:

1st half '08: 104
2nd half '08: 44

I realize the season's not over, but I'd call this a major improvement.

2008-09-22 15:14:05
73.   Eric Stephen
I don't like off days. Things always devolve here into things like (a) acquiring Robinson Cano, (b) trading Matt Kemp, or (c) both.
2008-09-22 15:14:11
74.   DodgerBakers
72 Ooh. The fly in the ointment is that Kemp has had 100 fewer plate apperances...
2008-09-22 15:14:16
75.   JoeyP
56- Ethier was a bright spot.
Kemp did about as well as I figured.
Loney, did about as well as I figured.
Martin - really concerns me. I may have to adjust his upside a bit down.
2008-09-22 15:15:28
76.   Tripon
What was Eckstein's upside?
2008-09-22 15:17:02
77.   Eric Stephen
Still, though, that's a significant improvement:

1st half: 1 K per 3.55 PA
2nd half: 1 K per 6 PA

2008-09-22 15:17:13
78.   Disabled List
69 Who needs those guys to develop into "monsters"?

If we don't re-sign Manny, then we'll need at least one of them to develop into a monster. Otherwise, it's back to the offense we saw from May-July.

2008-09-22 15:18:04
79.   KG16
74 - looking at K/AB, first half he was at .308, second half he was at .178, that's a noticeable improvement, I'd say.
2008-09-22 15:18:26
80.   DodgerBakers
77 agreed. I really think it is just indicative of a young player still learning to play the game. He is not as good as he will be and hopefully will have a nice season next year as he continues to improve.
2008-09-22 15:18:54
81.   underdog
78 Re-signing Manny would definitely take the pressure of there, that's true.

Monsters are such innnnteresting creatures, they lead such innnnnteresting lives.

2008-09-22 15:19:04
82.   KG16
78 - we could also try to acquire a monster via free agency
2008-09-22 15:19:12
83.   MC Safety
When did Travis Ishikawa become a guy worth speculating about?

What did I miss?

2008-09-22 15:20:00
84.   Tripon
Blake DeWitt is a monster. He using a last name as his first name.
2008-09-22 15:20:14
85.   Kevin Lewis

I absolutely expected us to win Game 3 with Maddux pitching at that point. That was a sad than happy and than sad again game in person

2008-09-22 15:22:43
86.   Gilberto Reyes
67 A few other young outfielders to consider before you rate Matt Kemp so high...

Ryan Braun, Jay Bruce, the Upton brothers, and Nick Markakis.

2008-09-22 15:23:36
87.   Tripon
86 Just looking at center fielders. Kemp at a corner spot is less praiseworthy.
2008-09-22 15:23:55
88.   silverwidow
Andrew Lambo = monster
2008-09-22 15:24:15
89.   underdog
83 Dunno. Maybe people were watching the Giant's telecasts this weekend with Mike Krukow hyping up some of their mediocre prospects. He could be a decent starter, but I don't see much that will have me quaking in my boots. I do like Pablo Sandoval's bat, though, but he's a fat tub of goo.
2008-09-22 15:24:59
90.   ToyCannon
I'm not advocating trading Matt Kemp, I know he's only 23, but it bugs me when he's put in the same class as great young players and deemed untradable. I'm not giving up on any of the average producing 3rd year players but I'm also trying to be realistic as to what the future expectations should be for these guys.

What is amazing is that we are about to win the NL West and the 3rd year offensive players other then Ethier all regressed significantly from their sophomore seasons.

2008-09-22 15:25:17
91.   underdog
84 Or perhaps the Dodgers could just sign this guy:

2008-09-22 15:26:25
92.   cargill06
I'm still a little freaked out from this morning when I saw the Dodgers B-R home page. We have an outside shot of having 6 out of our 8 starters under a 100 OPS+ (Martin 99, Loney 99, Kemp 103, Blake 95), and than DeWitt and Berroa will be below 100.
2008-09-22 15:27:19
93.   Kevin Lewis

This is how I am feeling too. I am concerned about Martin's drop in production, but the walks have been great.

What are Martin's 2nd half numbers like this year compared to the past?

2008-09-22 15:28:48
94.   KG16
90 - Martin and Ethier are really the only guys I'd call true third year players. Kemp and Loney played in 50-some games two years ago. Last year was their first full season, this is their second full season.
2008-09-22 15:30:23
95.   Bob Timmermann
Carmona suspended for six games and Sheffield for four.
2008-09-22 15:31:01
96.   cargill06
93 Martin's career 2nd half splits.
'08- .246/.355/.308
'07- .275/.375/.438
'06- .276/.354/.428
2008-09-22 15:31:29
97.   Bob Timmermann
Victor Martinez and Asdrubal Cabrera got three game suspensions.

Also this:

"I don't think it would be ethical for me to comment, since I wasn't involved in the game," Leyland said.

2008-09-22 15:31:48
98.   Zak
68 I would add Nasri to that list too. No doubt, Arsenal is very young and very talented and will be good for years to come. But it's things like letting Flamini leave that mystify me. I know he was a FA, but they could have resigned him before he could negotiate with other teams. He was a monster for them last year.

As for Man U., everyone always takes their bad start as a sign of maybe this is the year they are terrible, but I think they are poised to have a very good year. We'll have to see, but I see people like Ronaldo, Anderson, Berbatov getting comfortable as the season gets along. They still make me chuckle when they start Gary Neville though.

2008-09-22 15:34:25
99.   cargill06
95 Darn.
2008-09-22 15:34:32
100.   Zak
95 They should have the option of getting in a boxing ring with proceeds going to MLB in order to avoid suspensions.

I think MLB would be more interesting if I was in charge.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-09-22 15:34:33
101.   ucladodger

And Kemp played in fewer than 100 games last year. He is so young in his baseball career that he could really turn into anything. He could continue to be the player that he is today (105-110 OPS+ center fielder), regress and become Ryan Howard with the home runs, or really find it and become a 135+ OPS player that goes 35/35 every year for the next decade. I just think that his future is not as easy to predict when compared to other players because of his raw ability level and his lack of baseball experience. Playing the game seriously for only 6-7 years is just nothing compared to everybody else. To me, the power is the big question mark. I dont see him ever being a 80 walk kind of guy, but if he can tweak his approach at the plate, he can easily hit 25-30 homers next year. At 24, that would put him with the marquee center fielders in the game.

2008-09-22 15:35:22
102.   ucladodger

That should say Ryan Howard withOUT the home runs.

2008-09-22 15:39:45
103.   Tripon
Ryan Howard without the home runs would be a pretty poor player.
2008-09-22 15:40:49
104.   cargill06
I guess if Carmona serves his suspension starting today he'd be eligble to pitch the season finale on Sunday, but I doubt Cleveland would want to take a start away from Cliff Lee... I got screwed.
2008-09-22 15:42:21
105.   regfairfield
Kemp's offensive numbers certainly aren't world beaters, but comparing him to Gonzalez is very unfair. Decent center fielders are on an entirely differently level as defensively terrible left fielders.

He's certainly not Mike Cameron right now (a comparison that's been made a lot), he's got neither the power or the defense, but Mike Cameron was one of the most valuable players in baseball in his prime. We should be thrilled if he becomes Mike Cameron.

2008-09-22 15:47:05
106.   bhsportsguy
104 According to the latest wire report, Carmona is appealing his suspension, my hunch is that he will pitch on Wednesday and then drop his appeal and serve the rest of the 4 games and then the first two games of next year.
2008-09-22 15:48:43
107.   cargill06
106 Intersting, hope you're right. If he does pitch Wed. I just know he'll throw 5 innings and finish at 124.2 IP.
2008-09-22 15:50:54
108.   ToyCannon
If he only becomes an offensive Mike Cameron many here will be disappointed. He's way a head of the Cameron curve on offense but most of Cameron's value was on defense, and I don't think Kemp will ever be a plus on defense and Cameron was one of the best.
2008-09-22 15:54:28
109.   ibleedbloo
35 Does anyone have any numbers on how our pitchers fair with extra rest? I believe part of Maddux's problem in 2006 was to much rest; being to strong didn't let his pitches do what they wanted.

Would Bills fair better with extra rest?

2008-09-22 15:55:55
110.   Gilberto Reyes
94 Actually, you could argue that this is Loney's first full season. He got called up after a few months last year so he had limited ABs. And his red-hot power month in September made his overall numbers higher than they probably would have been if he played all season. Remember that his AAA numbers last year were very bad (1 HR in 2 months). In summary, his 2007 big league numbers probably set his expectations too high for 2008.
2008-09-22 15:56:45
111.   MC Safety
98 Nasri is already a star imo, so I didn't mention him. I don't know what happened with the whole Flamini thing, either. I've heard so many different things. I'm sure Wenger felt Toure could do Flamini's job without sacrificing anything, although that remains to be seen. But if we control the ball like we have been, Flamini will rapidly become a moot point. In the end, I trust Wenger's judgement.
2008-09-22 15:57:52
112.   silverwidow
109 Bills w/4 days' rest: 3.33 ERA
Bills w/5 days' rest: 2.87 ERA
2008-09-22 16:03:11
113.   regfairfield
108 Then it's a problem of too much expectations. The only center fielders in the game right now that combine Seattle Cameron's ~110 OPS+ and elite defense are Granderson, Beltran, and maybe Sizemore (but he certainly makes up for it offensively).

It is true that Kemp's defense is never going to reach elite levels so he's going to have to outhit Cameron, but there's no way Cameron could ever hit more than .260 or so.

2008-09-22 16:07:36
114.   Gilberto Reyes
113 Other than the great catch he made in St. Louis playing CF last year, I don't really recall any amazing defensive plays by Kemp that really stand out.

He has shown a great arm this year, but I agree that he will never be an elite defensive CF.

2008-09-22 16:10:22
115.   Alex41592
114 - He made a great play as recent as Friday night and several others in the past.
2008-09-22 16:10:23
116.   MC Safety
Up until today today I thought DT was united on the Anti-Trading Matt Kemp initiative.
2008-09-22 16:12:15
117.   Kevin Lewis

For me the only person I wouldn't trade (for the right price) is Bills.

2008-09-22 16:19:27
118.   Bob Timmermann
Aaron Miles gets the start in LF for the Redbirds tonight. Other than that, it's pretty much what passes for a "regular" lineup for the Cardinals at this point in the season.
2008-09-22 16:22:34
119.   bhsportsguy
118 Why couldn't Bochy started an infielder in LF yesterday?
2008-09-22 16:24:03
120.   underdog
118 Take note, Mr. Hurdle!
2008-09-22 16:25:18
121.   CanuckDodger
Mike Cameron? Do people realize how far ahead of Mike Cameron Matt Kemp is? Cameron -- drafted as an 18-year-old, like Kemp -- didn't play his first full season in MLB till age 25, and that year, in 141 games, he hit .210/.285/.336. When Cameron was in his age 23 season, like Kemp this year, he played the full season in Double A.
2008-09-22 16:25:58
122.   Bob Timmermann
The Cardinals don't have a lot of outfield options. Kennedy has been playing in RF, Miles in LF and Felipe Lopez in the outfield as well.

I think La Russa is keeping Lopez in the infield from now on because he's less dangerous there.

David Eckstein returns to St. Louis tonight.

2008-09-22 16:26:05
123.   bhsportsguy
118 FYI, Washington State @ UCLA has been scheduled for a 7:15 p.m. start.
2008-09-22 16:27:14
124.   Vaudeville Villain
I think the important point is, what would you trade Kemp for? Aside from cargill's Hardy deal, which would never actually happen, there is very little that he could be traded for that would be worth it. I think we just need to hope that he starts hitting for better power over the next few years and be satisfied that we have an above average center fielder.
2008-09-22 16:27:33
125.   regfairfield
121 Mike Cameron was a really, really good player. I had a point when I said that, I just kind of forgot what it was.
2008-09-22 16:32:51
126.   scareduck
121 - of course, that kind of comparison only gets you so far. One of Casey Kotchman's early comps was Todd Helton, and one of the reasons to be high on Kotchman was that he was in the majors in the same year that Helton had been drafted (barely, but still true). Kotchman needs to stop hitting balls on the ground and he'll be a much better player.
2008-09-22 16:32:55
127.   Bob Timmermann
And I'm still not going to that one.
2008-09-22 16:33:03
128.   CanuckDodger
125 -- Sure, Cameron was very good, but at an age multiple years older than Kemp is now. Not to accuse you of anything, but several people here seem to be diminishing Kemp's accomplishments, and not just Kemp's, when they should be considered in an age-related context.
2008-09-22 16:33:38
129.   Jon Weisman
Southern California in song:

2008-09-22 16:33:56
130.   Bob Timmermann
Cubs lead the Mets 1-0. Phillies lead the Braves 1-0.
The two relevant AL games tonight are scoreless.
2008-09-22 16:34:35
131.   regfairfield
I think it had to do with how much more reduced offensive expectations are for center fielders than corner outfielders, but that kind of got lost along the way.
2008-09-22 16:35:21
132.   underdog
123 In what sport? Not football, I assume. I believe UCLA is taking the year off in that particular sport.
2008-09-22 16:37:02
133.   bhsportsguy
132 Oh sure, take your shots now.
2008-09-22 16:38:56
134.   CanuckDodger
126 -- In fairness to Kotchman, he has been injury prone, and injuries can certainly set back a career path, and the problem with stat comparisons to Helton is that his numbers as a major leaguer have been inflated by Coors Field. If one were just using SCOUTING profiles for comparisons, Helton does bear a resemblance to both Loney and Kotchman.
2008-09-22 16:39:31
135.   jasonungar07
I so agree with you Canuck. What all these guys are doing at their ages are awesome. You see with Andre (at least I do) the mind catch up with the natrual talent...
2008-09-22 16:42:32
136.   regfairfield
Kotchman and Helton had the same OPS+ at age 24. It wasn't a bad statistical comparison.
2008-09-22 16:43:57
137.   Bob Timmermann
But did Kotchman ever play on the same team as Peyton Manning?
2008-09-22 16:47:47
138.   Jon Weisman
There's an update to this post above.
2008-09-22 16:49:24
139.   Vaudeville Villain

Aside from the Coors Field numbers inflation, Helton also hasn't been as good a player as he used to be since he got accused of using steroids. Not sayin', just sayin'.

2008-09-22 16:54:26
140.   Kevin Lewis
I like the last comment on the AZ snakepit post
2008-09-22 16:57:24
141.   bhsportsguy
I saw a note in Tom Hoffarth's blog that Tony Bruno's syndicated radio show is taking over for Joe McDonnell on KLAC 570, starting on Monday 9/29.

Its unfortunate in the sense that really isn't a lot of local LA sportstalk and Joe was a fixture especially for Lakers and Dodgers talk.

2008-09-22 17:04:31
142.   Bob Timmermann
The 150:1s and the Orioles are engaged in some Hippo Vaughn-Fred Toney like action.
2008-09-22 17:05:43
143.   Harold M Johnson
141 yeah, but he was kind of annoying when talking about either of them, droning on without a point.
2008-09-22 17:05:53
144.   cargill06
124 Really? You think that would never happen? Some people think Milwaukee will be fire-selling this winter, and I think they have a pretty good SS prospect in AA. Too bad that we don't have another good Outfielder or it would be something that could help out the team a lot.
2008-09-22 17:06:23
145.   Lexinthedena
141 That bums me out. I'm not a big fan of McDonell, but like you said, he is local. I'm tired of East Cost hacks like Tony B. doing all sports talk. Say what you want about Petros and Money, at least they know L.A, and now it's just them and Mason & Ireland who are actually local.
2008-09-22 17:07:05
146.   Eric Enders
142 Not to mention Bobo Holloman-like action.
2008-09-22 17:08:39
147.   Lexinthedena
Anyone else think that Eric Stults will be a Padre next year as one of the PTBNL's in the Maddux deal?...I could see him doing really well in PETCO.
2008-09-22 17:11:49
148.   Alex41592
I'm leaving work now so hopefully when I get home the D'Backs will be in a hole.
2008-09-22 17:12:21
149.   sporky
Go Cardinals!

For my personal safety, I had to turn off the flash (you can never assume the sanity of a man who purchases/wears a Pierre jersey).

2008-09-22 17:12:56
150.   sporky
149 The guy on the right was also wearing a Pierre t-shirt.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-09-22 17:14:21
151.   Bilshaw
Cubs marquis grand slam! wow
2008-09-22 17:14:40
152.   scareduck
Jason Marquis has just hit a grand slam in Shea.


2008-09-22 17:15:33
153.   scareduck
Oh, and it's 6-2 Cubbies.
2008-09-22 17:17:22
154.   Bob Timmermann
There have been two grand slams by pitchers this year and both have been hit against the Mets at Shea. Felix Hernandez hit one back on June 23 off of Johan Santana.
2008-09-22 17:18:38
155.   Bob Timmermann
Now there's Steve Barber-Stu Miller action in Baltimore.
2008-09-22 17:18:59
156.   Eric Stephen
you can never assume the sanity of a man who purchases/wears a Pierre jersey

I purchased and have worn a Pierre jersey t-shirt. So, point taken I guess. :)

2008-09-22 17:21:23
157.   scareduck
7-2 Cubbies, as Aramis Ramirez goes yard on Nelson Figueroa.
2008-09-22 17:21:46
158.   bhsportsguy
149 Where was that picture taken?
2008-09-22 17:21:54
159.   Bob Timmermann
And now it's time for David Price to read up on Bobo Holloman.

Bobo, Bobo, bring back Sheriff Lobo!

2008-09-22 17:22:34
160.   sporky
Jersey : t-shirt :: vehicular manslaughter : parking ticket
2008-09-22 17:22:53
161.   Eric Stephen
Bad defense thus far in AZ tonight. 1-0 top 1
2008-09-22 17:23:41
162.   bhsportsguy
147 They have said that the players involved in that deal are not on the 40-man roster.
2008-09-22 17:24:09
163.   Eric Stephen
or in St Louis. Whatever. :)
2008-09-22 17:25:43
164.   sporky
158 Somewhere in DS.
2008-09-22 17:27:17
165.   Bob Timmermann
That looks like one of the pavilions to me. They are pretty dingy and they have a lot of exposed pipes.
2008-09-22 17:28:23
166.   Jim Hitchcock
Pujols be our friend.
2008-09-22 17:28:59
167.   bhsportsguy
164 There was a fight in the LF pavillion that night (surprise, surprise), I did not know that they started selling beer again in the LF pavillion.
2008-09-22 17:29:14
168.   Bob Timmermann
Tampa Bay and Baltimore has lost all of its historical tastiness.
2008-09-22 17:29:43
169.   Eric Stephen
1st & 3rd, 0 outs for Pujols!
2008-09-22 17:29:44
170.   Bob Timmermann
They sell beer in RF, but not LF I believe.
2008-09-22 17:31:48
171.   sporky
165 167 It wasn't the pavilion (or at least I don't think so). Our seats were behind the LA dugout in the 3rd level or so, and I was on a quest to find garlic fries.
2008-09-22 17:32:33
172.   Eric Stephen
Wow, Pujols sold a foul tip there. It looked like he struck out.
2008-09-22 17:32:52
173.   Bob Timmermann
Technically then you were on the fourth level. The third level is the Club Level with the press box.
2008-09-22 17:33:37
174.   Eric Stephen
Felipe Lopez got picked off first.

With Pujols up.


2008-09-22 17:34:38
175.   sporky
2008-09-22 17:34:52
176.   Eric Stephen
Pujols steals a walk to load the...oh that's right, thanks to Felipe Lopez, it's 1st & 3rd, 1 out for Ludwick.
2008-09-22 17:36:01
177.   bhsportsguy
171 You and Greg Brock can share some garlic fries at the next DT gathering.
2008-09-22 17:36:45
178.   Eric Stephen
A balk ties it up in Mound City!
2008-09-22 17:37:26
179.   bhsportsguy
Mr. Balk arises. 1-1
2008-09-22 17:37:53
180.   sporky
Great, now I want fries for dinner.
2008-09-22 17:39:21
181.   bhsportsguy
180 B.J.s in Westwood. Or just head to In N Out.
2008-09-22 17:40:06
182.   cargill06
The gamecast on ESPN is telling me Mr. Webb is getting everything down.
2008-09-22 17:42:56
183.   ucladodger
Ton of pitches for Webb. Would be nice if he could only go 5 or 6.
2008-09-22 17:43:12
184.   Gen3Blue
Wow, I was watching the Snakes/Cards when I noticed there was another feed and switched. Apparently I had a pro Arizona team, and believe me, it was really oppressive.
2008-09-22 17:43:45
185.   joekings
183- He threw 27, it would be great if he continues at that pace.
2008-09-22 17:44:07
186.   underdog
cargill will be proud of me; I have a bet on the Chargers-Jets game tonight, took Chargers -8. Figured I'll either win money or be happy I jinxed the Chargers into losing. And no, I don't normally bet but it was an offer I couldn't refuse (horse's head not included).
2008-09-22 17:44:34
187.   bhsportsguy
Jason Marquis has 5 RBI, 8-2 Chicago in the 5th.
2008-09-22 17:46:23
188.   underdog
I don't feel too comfortable pinning my hopes on Todd Wellemeyer tonight.
2008-09-22 17:48:44
189.   trainwreck
Not the greatest of starts for your bet.
2008-09-22 17:49:40
190.   regfairfield
What's the D-Backs record since acquiring Eckstein?
2008-09-22 17:49:46
191.   underdog
Hah hah. Jets intercept Rivers and return for a TD vs Chargers! This'll be great, I'll be taught never to bet again, and the Chargers will be 0-3.
2008-09-22 17:52:30
192.   underdog
189 It's okay, I can't lose! In a way.


Did the Cards really just IBB Eckstein, or was that an unintentional walk?

2008-09-22 17:53:58
193.   FirstMohican
190 - That's only a valid question if their record is better since acquiring him. If it isn't, then the appropriate rhetorical question would be "but what would their record have been if they hadn't signed him???"
2008-09-22 17:54:52
194.   cargill06
191 T The Jets are a bad team, you're no where near dead.
2008-09-22 17:55:17
195.   Eric Stephen
2008-09-22 17:55:29
196.   bhsportsguy
190 9-10
2008-09-22 17:57:57
197.   Eric Stephen
2 out, man on 3rd for Old Friend Izturis, bottom 2nd.
2008-09-22 17:58:06
198.   cargill06
Eckstein is the DBacks Maddux. Could Ojeda be just as good or better than Eckstein? Probably.

Could McDonald/Stults do just as well or better than Maddux? Probably.

2008-09-22 17:59:49
199.   Eric Stephen
Webb Beimel's Izturis to end the inning.
2008-09-22 18:00:18
200.   underdog
Uh, talk about a "black hole" in a line-up. The Cards' 7-9 ain't gonna be of service for us today.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-09-22 18:05:34
201.   Reddog
I never really followed the American League, and I knew Manny Ramirez was a good slugger for the Red Sox, but I didn't know how good of a hitter he was. I just checked his career stats, and in 16 seasons, for 162 games he's averaged 39 doubles, 41 HRs, 133 RBIs, 93 BBs, .314 BA, .411 OBP, .593 SLG with an OPS of 155. Wow. Has any Dodger ever had stats like that?
2008-09-22 18:05:51
202.   Eric Stephen
Really nice pick at 1st by Pujols to finish a DP. 2 outs top 3.
2008-09-22 18:07:31
203.   KG16
201 - there was this guy, a catcher I think, that briefly played for the Dodgers before being traded to Florida
2008-09-22 18:08:31
204.   Eric Stephen
Has any Dodger ever had stats like that?

Piazza's OPS+ as a Dodger is 159, in 5½ seasons.

Sheffield had a 160 OPS+ in 3½ seasons.

2008-09-22 18:09:16
205.   cargill06
Underdog I think you'll cover, SD will probably win by at least 14
2008-09-22 18:10:14
206.   bhsportsguy
203 Also had the Dodgers not first played in football stadium when they first moved to LA, he might have had some better career numbers. The Duke of Flatbush still averaged 31 HR per 162 games but his numbers dropped when they moved from Ebbets Field to LA.

.295/.380/.540 140 OPS+

2008-09-22 18:13:10
207.   Eric Stephen
When I was at lunch, I listened to the Scott Van Pelt show on ESPN Radio. Michael Kay was the guest host, and Lasorda came on as a guest. I was going to give an announcement here, but my iPhone browser crashed as I was logging in.

Anyway, near the end of the interview, Kay asked, "Is Ramirez one of the greatest right handed hitters ever?"

Lasorda, rather abruptly, and after praising Manny for 2 solid minutes, said "No way." I thought it was kind of funny.

2008-09-22 18:13:22
208.   Gagne55
Pujols bats!
2008-09-22 18:13:45
209.   bhsportsguy
I wonder, do the Cubs want to play the Dodgers/D-Backs/Mets?
2008-09-22 18:14:36
210.   underdog
If someone did a sort of "It's a Wonderful Life" for Monday Night Football about the show's life without Tony Kornheiser, it would be a happier story.
2008-09-22 18:15:56
211.   underdog
209 If you read Cubs blogs (at least comments) they seem to feel most confident about playing the Dodgers. {shrug}
2008-09-22 18:16:02
212.   bhsportsguy
210 I really like Tony Kornheiser on his radio show and his old columns in the Washington Post but his style is probably not for everyone and certainly not MNF.
2008-09-22 18:17:21
213.   bhsportsguy
211 The Dodgers don't have the one big ace (Santana, Webb, Haren) but the Mets are just terrible right now.
2008-09-22 18:18:20
214.   cargill06
Of Webb's first 58 pitches I can only remember seeing 4 above the the lowest vertical box on ESPN's gamecast. I suggest StL knock him out of the game ASAP.
2008-09-22 18:19:36
215.   Eric Stephen
"Nobody believed we could beat the mighty Cubs. Nobody believed we could beat the mighty Phillies. Nobody believed we could beat the team that won 100 games. But we believed it!!!!"


2008-09-22 18:20:10
216.   underdog
212 Yah honestly I don't mind him at all outside of MNF, but he contributes almost nothing in the booth. Some of his comments are something a 6th grader could come up with. Nothing against him personally... Oh well, he beats Dennis Miller, at least.

213 Yep. It's fine by me, they can believe whatever. I just want LA to get to the playoffs and then I'll take my chances vs. anyone.


Wow, cargill you (and I) might be right about this MNF game after all.

2008-09-22 18:21:15
217.   bhsportsguy
Phillies just scored on a fielder's choice so its now 3-2 and Brad Lidge is now warming up in the pen for the top of the 9th.
2008-09-22 18:21:31
218.   Gagne55
207 "One of the" is not clearly defined. He's not at the level of Hornsby, Foxx, Mays, or Aaron, but nobody else is clearly ahead of him. Greenberg, McGuire, and Dimaggio didn't have very long careers.
2008-09-22 18:22:01
219.   Eric Stephen
Shouldn't you not have betrayed your name and bet on the Jets, rather than the 8½ point favorite? :)
2008-09-22 18:22:46
220.   underdog
On the other hand...

This is one nutty MNF game.

2008-09-22 18:23:05
221.   Eric Stephen
Lasorda specifically mentioned Greenberg and DiMaggio as better RH hitters, but also added that he hates comparing players.
2008-09-22 18:25:42
222.   ToyCannon
Dimaggio only played 14 seasons but get a load of those MVP votes.
2008-09-22 18:26:12
223.   Eric Stephen
Pujols unsuccessfully tried to "Karros" the end of a DP and Webb barely beat the throw.

Replay seems to show an out though. :(

2008-09-22 18:26:35
224.   Bilshaw
It's perfect DP.
2008-09-22 18:28:11
225.   Eric Stephen
Webb being called safe at 1st leads to a run. 2-1 AZ going to the bottom of the 4th.

Webb was gunned by a mile at the plate though. Let's hope it affects him on the mound.

2008-09-22 18:28:26
226.   underdog
Darnit, stupid DBacks take the lead.
2008-09-22 18:28:28
227.   bhsportsguy
A gift run but talk about a bad read, why send Webb there.
2008-09-22 18:28:53
228.   ToyCannon
In his prime Greenberg was as good as anyone. He was certainly a person who lost some great seasons to the war.
2008-09-22 18:28:57
229.   bhsportsguy
The Cards just need to score 3 runs now.
2008-09-22 18:29:36
230.   Alex41592
That was just a terrible decision to send Webb home. But, he looked winded after running 270 feet so hopefully it'll have an affect on him.
2008-09-22 18:30:01
231.   KG16
DiMaggio also had to take a three year break to go to Europe in his late 20s. That probably affected his career numbers.
2008-09-22 18:30:20
232.   underdog
219 Maybe I should have. Just didn't have a good feeling about the Jets covering in this one. I usually do like the underdog, of course...
2008-09-22 18:31:48
233.   dzzrtRatt
Whoo-hoo, my first viewing. I paid the $7.95 to watch tonight's game.

It's just like there are little baseball players inside my color screen thing attached to the typawriter.

2008-09-22 18:32:57
234.   Eric Stephen
If I were a gambling man (and I am), I would have also beat on SD -8½ this evening.
2008-09-22 18:35:22
235.   LoneStar7
although its most likely going to upset me, I've put on the cardinals game on as well..

go cards..!?

2008-09-22 18:36:52
236.   Alex41592
Should it happen, Cubs and Mets would be a very interesting NLDS in October.
2008-09-22 18:39:39
237.   dzzrtRatt
With the support of the League's Best Fans, how can the Cardinals lose?
2008-09-22 18:41:54
238.   Bob Timmermann
It's not the LEAGUE's best fans. It's BASEBALL's best fans.
2008-09-22 18:48:09
239.   Eric Stephen
Bases juiced, 1 out for Reynolds. 1 out top 5. 2-1 AZ.

Al Hrabosky has been commenting on Reynolds all night about leading the league in errors and Ks. I have a bad feeling here.

2008-09-22 18:48:45
240.   Bilshaw
Wellemeyer struggle control
2008-09-22 18:54:52
241.   Eric Stephen
2 strikeouts end the 5th. 2 runs in 5 IP is about as Welle as I could have expected the Cards' starter to pitch tonight.

2-1 AZ, going to the bottom of the 5th.

2008-09-22 18:55:25
242.   underdog
Nice job by Wellemeyer getting out of that jam with two strikeouts!
2008-09-22 18:55:51
243.   bhsportsguy
241 But their bullpen, yikes.

Underdog looking good.

2008-09-22 18:56:05
244.   Alex41592
9,1 and 2 coming up. This is what LaRussa had in mind.
2008-09-22 18:56:23
245.   underdog
238 I was told last night that the Yankees have the best fans in baseball, though. So who's right? Perhaps they should duke it out in some sort of armed combat.
2008-09-22 18:57:07
246.   Alex41592
Webb has 75 pitches through 4.
2008-09-22 18:57:09
247.   underdog
243 Thanks, it's the new hairstyle, and I lost a couple of pounds. Oh! You mean the MNF bet -- yep, so far.
2008-09-22 18:58:48
248.   bhsportsguy
247 So is Lane Kiffin renting week to week right now?
2008-09-22 19:00:08
249.   Eric Stephen
Double play and a Rule 1 violation in StL.
2008-09-22 19:00:28
250.   JRSarno
Al Michaels needs to stop badgering his own witness, and the STL offense needs to WAKE UP ALREADY!
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-09-22 19:02:33
251.   dzzrtRatt
Geez, I didn't think I'd switched away from the Chargers game long enough for the Chargers to turn it into a laugher.
2008-09-22 19:05:43
252.   Eric Stephen
Drew hits it Welle over the RF wall. 3-1 AZ, 2 outs, top 6.
2008-09-22 19:06:02
253.   Bob Timmermann
Yellow alert for Steven Drew in St. Louis. This is a yellow alert.
2008-09-22 19:06:45
254.   Eric Stephen
Yellow alert for Stephen Drew in St. Louis. This is a yellow alert.
2008-09-22 19:07:04
255.   dzzrtRatt
Hate Stephen Drew.
2008-09-22 19:07:16
256.   Eric Stephen
I wasn't sure if you were around.\

[slinks away]

2008-09-22 19:07:22
257.   JoeyP
Stephen Drew may be moving ahead of Tulo as to best SS in the NL West.
2008-09-22 19:08:36
258.   bhsportsguy
257 And we know how long that title can last. Drew will not sign a big extension like Tulo, not with Scott Boras as his agent.
2008-09-22 19:09:02
259.   Neal Pollack
We are going to have to sweep the Padres.
2008-09-22 19:09:30
260.   Bob Timmermann
Only Andrew has my proxy to act as a cycle alert watchman.
2008-09-22 19:09:36
261.   JoeyP
Drew has been real up & down. He was mostly awful last year but has turned it around this one.
2008-09-22 19:11:43
262.   oshea2002
The Cards games almost have double importance. The Snakes will likely sweep this weekend. If StL was guaranteed going to lose a game this series though, it'd be tonight.
2008-09-22 19:12:14
263.   bhsportsguy
Pujols must be the Ted Williams of this generation, close calls just go his way.
2008-09-22 19:13:09
264.   Alex41592
A base hit for Boston clinches a playoff spot.
2008-09-22 19:14:21
265.   oshea2002
Ryan Ludwick is not gonna be on my Christmas card list.
2008-09-22 19:15:30
266.   underdog
Stop swinging at stuff! They're all low, Cardinals, don't you get it! {fume} {pace around}
2008-09-22 19:15:31
267.   Alex41592
Yankees Live!

Theeeeeeeeeee Yankees LIVE!

2008-09-22 19:16:31
268.   underdog
Ok, sometimes they're called strikes. Still... do something!
2008-09-22 19:17:36
269.   dzzrtRatt
258 Fine. That hick belongs on the Yankees. He can replace Derek Jeter.

(I think I'm projecting my resentment of David John Drew onto his jawless brother. I defended J.D. when he was on the Dodgers, and then look what he did to me.)

2008-09-22 19:17:59
270.   sporky
I was going to get animal fries if/when the Cards were blowing out the Dbacks.


2008-09-22 19:19:32
271.   underdog
270 Animal fries...?

Is that the same thing as chicken tenders?

2008-09-22 19:20:47
272.   Tripon
269 You mean sign a 5 year/70 million contract and only play 110 games per year for the Red Sox? I dislike J.D. Drew myself, but its the best thing he did was opt out, the guy's fragile as they come and he's making a boat load of money only playing around 100 games a year.
2008-09-22 19:21:27
273.   bhsportsguy
Fries animal style include two slices of melted cheese, grilled onions, and spread as toppings. You'll need a fork to eat them.
2008-09-22 19:22:02
274.   Alex41592
2008-09-22 19:22:03
275.   trainwreck
They have animal style fries at In-N-Out?
2008-09-22 19:22:40
276.   underdog
Story on the Dodgers was just posted on the NY Times online:
"Dodgers Face Shrinking Lead and a Crisis of Confidence"

Great. As if we didn't have enough to worry about, now we have New York following us intently.

2008-09-22 19:24:03
277.   JoeyP
272- Aside from a broken wrist in 2005 from a HBP, JD Drew hadnt been on the DL since 2003.
2008-09-22 19:25:08
278.   underdog
273 Or a spork?

Ah, I see. Sounds like nachos except with fries instead of chips.

2008-09-22 19:26:23
279.   Alex41592
Chow down.

2008-09-22 19:26:35
280.   Eric Stephen
I worked there in high school (1993-94), and I never knew they existed until a couple years ago.
2008-09-22 19:27:48
281.   Alex41592
Kerry Wood is in for the K-Rod special!
2008-09-22 19:27:54
282.   ucladodger
Animal style fries might be the greatest invention ever. The perfect In & Out meal -
3 X 3 with extra pickles and grilled onions with animal style fries and a drink. Nothing can beat that, especially when you live about 3 minutes away from In & Out.
2008-09-22 19:28:09
283.   bhsportsguy
277 You mean until this: "J.D. Drew on the 15-day disabled list, retroactive to August 18"
2008-09-22 19:30:39
284.   underdog
Mark Johnson was 3-0 vs Webb to start the 7th and ends up grounding out. Sigh.

In slightly better news... my bet's looking pretty good right now.

2008-09-22 19:31:25
285.   underdog
But Kennedy PH's and gets a single! 1 out. Webb at 107 pitches.
2008-09-22 19:31:35
286.   Eric Stephen
1st & 3rd, 1 out for Skip Schumaker bottom 7th!!!
2008-09-22 19:31:45
287.   JoeyP
277-- Thats why I put hadnt in my comment instead of "hasnt".
2008-09-22 19:32:03
288.   Alex41592
Ok, Redbirds in business.
2008-09-22 19:33:03
289.   bhsportsguy
287 Just clarifying that's all since there was no reference by either of you that Drew was currently sitting out with a disk problem despite being activated recently.
2008-09-22 19:33:35
290.   Bob Timmermann
The Cubs win over the Mets ensures that nobody will be eliminated today.
2008-09-22 19:34:15
291.   Eric Stephen
RBI groundout. 3-2, 2 outs for Felipe Lopez. AK on 2nd.
2008-09-22 19:34:25
292.   Alex41592
2008-09-22 19:35:22
293.   underdog
And Webb is still in there at 110+ pitches. Melvin avoiding the pen at all costs.
2008-09-22 19:36:37
294.   underdog
Darn, he singled but didn't score Izturis, was hit too hard. But now Pujols is up with 1st and 3rd!
2008-09-22 19:36:46
295.   Alex41592
BOOOO! Too conservative. Run should've scored there. But, Pujols is up.
2008-09-22 19:36:46
296.   oshea2002
Jose Oquendo what are you doing!!!!!!!!
2008-09-22 19:36:49
297.   JoeyP
Some bad baserunning by the Cardinals cost them a tie game.
2008-09-22 19:37:00
298.   Eric Stephen
Tough call to hold Izturis there. I know Pujols is due up, but he probably would have scored unless there was a perfect throw.

Hope it works out!

2008-09-22 19:37:03
299.   Bob Timmermann
Izturis would have scored easily however.
2008-09-22 19:37:25
300.   LogikReader
What's the reverse of a windmill? Should the cards have sent Izturiz on the single? I think he'd have scored.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-09-22 19:37:36
301.   Bob Timmermann
The baserunning by Izturis was fine. Oquendo just threw up a stop sign.
2008-09-22 19:37:38
302.   LogikReader
Izturis, that is.
2008-09-22 19:37:39
303.   oshea2002
If less then 2 outs, you can maybe justify that. No way with 2 outs, I don't care who is up next. Even the Cards announcers are in shock.
2008-09-22 19:37:44
304.   Eric Stephen
It was all Oquendo (3rd base coach). He held up Cesar.
2008-09-22 19:38:03
305.   underdog
Ah, so it was stupid then? I was wondering how/why he didn't score -- just following it on GameDay. Stupid 3rd base coaches, they're killing me, I tells ya.
2008-09-22 19:39:08
306.   Eric Stephen
More reason to hate the Sklar brothers (they love Jose Oquendo).
2008-09-22 19:39:43
307.   Alex41592
Of course.
2008-09-22 19:39:48
308.   underdog
2008-09-22 19:40:10
309.   thinkblue88
Albert Pujols is a failure.
2008-09-22 19:40:20
310.   oshea2002
Izturis would have been safe by a country mile. The Cards announcers are in the most polite way possible calling Oquendo an idiot. Unbelievable, especially when you factor in that their right handed hitters have thrown up an ofer on webb tonight.
2008-09-22 19:41:06
311.   JRSarno
Is it so wrong to want a little charity tonight? Just lose, darn it! [Animal style fries sound amazing right now.]
2008-09-22 19:41:17
312.   JoeyP
A good throw may have had Izturis, but Chris Young did make a poor throw.
2008-09-22 19:41:47
313.   oshea2002
If that's the future MVP then I don't even want Manny considered for such an award (venting frustration).
2008-09-22 19:41:55
314.   bhsportsguy
Here is why I don't like that call, first, Pujols wasn't going to get anything to hit, second, it still means you have to get another hit to score the tying run, three, he could have walked Pujols to face Ludwick who he had owned already during this game.
2008-09-22 19:43:01
315.   dzzrtRatt
298 The precise opposite of yesterday's decision with Berroa trying to score with Manny in the on-deck circle.

Uneasy lies the third base coaches' batting helmet.

2008-09-22 19:44:02
316.   thinkblue88
And In N Out does sound good right now! Its like a block from my house. Maybe a late night walk is in order later tonight.
2008-09-22 19:45:08
317.   underdog
The Rockies and Cards are rolling over and dying so the Dodgers won't make the playoffs! I'm typing it all up on my old typewriter from my remote mountain cabin and will send it to all the baseball powers that be.

{/paranoia, OFF}

2008-09-22 19:45:14
318.   Bob Timmermann
The Phillies and Rays have magic numbers of 4 to clinch their divisions.
2008-09-22 19:46:01
319.   LogikReader
On Extra Innings, the viewer gets to pick between the Cardinals broadcast and the Dbacks broadcast. This time I went with the Dbacks team and they're pleading their case for Webb to win the Cy Young.

Nice try, guys.

2008-09-22 19:46:04
320.   Bob Timmermann
You do know that the Rockies beat the DBacks in a game at Denver?
2008-09-22 19:46:05
321.   dzzrtRatt
The AZ announcers...bleah.

"The Western Division on the line...the Cy Young award on the line... what a gutsy call by Bob Melvin..."

The same words coming from Scully would have sounded dramatic. From these oafs it sounds like premature triumphalism.

2008-09-22 19:46:38
322.   bhsportsguy
318 But they both also have the safety net of the W/C, Tampa alreay has that and the Phillies' magic number is 3 for that luxury.
2008-09-22 19:47:03
323.   Eric Stephen
Make sure Annie gets all your needed supplies when she drives into town.
2008-09-22 19:48:44
324.   underdog
320 Yes, I'm aware of that one, but that was just the game they won on purpose so it wouldn't look too obvious to the Commissioner. Oh yes, I know how these things work, it's all here in my manifesto.
2008-09-22 19:48:53
325.   JRSarno
316 - The In and Out in Hollywood is a few blocks from me, but I just finished eating dinner 2 mins ago. Why am I still thinking about those fries? ... well runner on 3rd. At least it's only Webb at bat.
2008-09-22 19:49:33
326.   JRSarno
blah, pinch hitter.
2008-09-22 19:49:34
327.   Eric Stephen
Chad Tracy temporarily makes our discussion moot.
2008-09-22 19:49:42
328.   oshea2002
Felipe Lopez doing his best for LA. He's got like 3 or 4 hits tonight, and had 4 hr's against AZ a couple weeks back.

317 - I put nothing past La Russa or Hurdle.

2008-09-22 19:50:08
329.   JRSarno
that's not good. not good at all.
2008-09-22 19:50:29
330.   Eric Stephen
Does getting hit by a pitch in the face count towards a cycle? You know, just wondering.
2008-09-22 19:50:32
331.   bhsportsguy
You know, sometimes you know when a pitcher is going to do that, that first pitch breaking ball was a little hanger and Springer repeated that same pitch.
2008-09-22 19:50:48
332.   LoneStar7
yea this is just gross, no one cares that Arizona even exists, while these next 6 games for us are gonna be like game 7 of the World Series.
2008-09-22 19:50:56
333.   underdog

I'm gonna go do something productive for awhile. Don't see the point in watching this one any more.

323 I think Jack is here, too. It's a very crowded mountain retreat.

2008-09-22 19:51:48
334.   bhsportsguy
So does Bobby Cox have a soft spot for the Phillies after his team rallied to beat the Mets yesterday and then lost to the Phillies today?
2008-09-22 19:51:58
335.   LogikReader
This is insane. The Dbacks are now 6-1, going on 7-1 in their last few games. What are the odds?!
2008-09-22 19:52:12
336.   underdog
Might as well have brought Dennis Springer in to pitch.

Or Jerry.

2008-09-22 19:52:53
337.   dzzrtRatt
Now they're saying the pendulum has swung toward Arizona in the NL West.

Oops, D-backs score an insurance run. Jon says, the Dodgers have to collapse for this alleged momentum shift to matter. It's not enough that AZ is playing better. The Dodgers have to play worse. At home. Against a terrible team.

Pitching-wise, it's uphill from here for Arizona.

If these touts worked on Wall Street, they'd be in handcuffs by now.

2008-09-22 19:54:09
338.   JRSarno
336 - Steven Drew is a transvestite.
2008-09-22 19:54:25
339.   underdog
337 You must be trying to purposely aggravate yourself by listening to the DBacks announcers. I feel grouchy enough, don't think I could take their homer-ism tonight at all.

Okay, off to write something other than a manifesto now.

2008-09-22 19:54:34
340.   LogikReader
Time to start watching CBS Super Duper Monday Comedy Night

What can you do about Arizona? Ah well, the worst case scenario is, I'll be getting about a 60 dollar refund.

2008-09-22 19:54:43
341.   Bob Timmermann
Henry Paulson has authorized the Treasury to give the Diamondbacks 50 extra runs to use in the final week.
2008-09-22 19:55:02
342.   JRSarno
337 - Sounds like a mute situation there. Rather like what I do whenever Joe Buck is on TV.
2008-09-22 19:55:06
343.   bhsportsguy
335 Not that insane, I mean they had lost 12 out of 15 games, they were not that bad a team especially when Webb and Haren pitch.
2008-09-22 19:55:47
344.   underdog
341 You just spoiled chapter 7 of my manifesto.
2008-09-22 20:00:12
345.   MC Safety
Animal style fries are so good. Don't sleep on the neopolitan shakes, either.
2008-09-22 20:00:40
346.   dzzrtRatt
339 This is my first time using MLB's live game thingie. I tried to pick the St.L announcers but apparently I screwed it up.

It's more relevant to hear what they have to say anyway.

Interestingly, the announcers just came back from a break and both were forced to admit that AZ's chances are slim. The producer must have come into the booth and begged them not to make fools of themselves. they're complaining that Peavy won't pitch til Thursday b/c of his child's imminent birth. Mark Grace seems especially irritated.

2008-09-22 20:01:23
347.   LoneStar7
could the cardinals be considered the nl's most disappointing team...they obviously play in a great division, but man i feel like that lineup should just produce so many runs
2008-09-22 20:02:00
348.   bhsportsguy
343 Let me add though, they still have problems scoring runs, their starting pitching (really since the Scherzer's start in LA) is keeping them in this race, if the starters give up even 3 runs, it's going to be hard for them to win games.
2008-09-22 20:02:53
349.   Eric Stephen
At least AZ is making it fair by pitching Lyon.

Base hit to lead off the 8th for Ludwick.

2008-09-22 20:02:53
350.   bhsportsguy
We could use a classic Brandon Lyon performance here.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-09-22 20:03:25
351.   dodgerinlv
Still 6 outs to work with and and a very poor AZ bullpin.
2008-09-22 20:03:32
352.   LoneStar7
there we go lead off single for ludwick..i just cant look away from the game although i obviously expect a let down.
2008-09-22 20:03:35
353.   bhsportsguy
347 They lost Ankiel, Duncan too.
2008-09-22 20:04:02
354.   Eric Stephen
The Cardinals definitely belong on the "exceeding expectations" side of the ledger this season.
2008-09-22 20:04:16
355.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think anybody thought the Cardinals would be particularly good this year. They didn't have much of a pitching staff. And no one expected Ludwick to produce as much as he did in the first half.

The Brewers may get the title of "Most Disappointing" unless the Mets help them out. The Padres are pretty disappointing, although they just had a series of unfortunate events.

2008-09-22 20:05:15
356.   bhsportsguy
355 You start with Detroit and go down from there.
2008-09-22 20:05:38
357.   dzzrtRatt
Now I'm glued to this broadcast, just to hear what happens in case the Cardinals manage to win it. The announcers will be suicidal. That Ludwick base hit got them reaching for the rat poison.
2008-09-22 20:08:26
358.   Eric Stephen
I thought Young was gonna catch that!

2nd & 3rd 0 outs.

2008-09-22 20:08:50
359.   Alex41592
Oh yeah! 2nd and 3rd!
2008-09-22 20:08:58
360.   JRSarno
2008-09-22 20:09:14
361.   underdog
A little birdie told me Brandon Lyon was pitching so I am taking a break (i.e., procrastinating) to watch this.
2008-09-22 20:09:16
362.   Alex41592
Arizona failed to make a great play.
2008-09-22 20:09:25
363.   Eric Stephen
The Proclaimers would walk...Miles here.
2008-09-22 20:09:43
364.   Bob Timmermann
Sutton is actually much more of a homer than Grace. Grace is more of a goofball, although if you can get past his shtick, he's not bad.

Daron Sutton is simply awful.

2008-09-22 20:09:49
365.   Tripon
Disappointing teams in no order:


2008-09-22 20:10:15
366.   bhsportsguy
Now I would hold up Glaus on a sharp single.
2008-09-22 20:10:50
367.   Eric Stephen
I'm looking for sharp objects.
2008-09-22 20:10:50
368.   oshea2002
The Cardinals are trying to lose.
2008-09-22 20:10:51
369.   Branch Rickey
2008-09-22 20:11:12
370.   Alex41592
Yeah that would happen.
2008-09-22 20:11:15
371.   JoeyP
Cards are killing themselves on the bases.
Soft gotta stay close to 2b.
2008-09-22 20:11:16
372.   Eric Stephen
Isn't the baserunning rule to wait until the ball is through the infield before running???
2008-09-22 20:11:40
373.   KG16
Aaron Miles is dead to me
2008-09-22 20:11:41
374.   Bob Timmermann
Troy Glaus showing the fine fundamentals that a Gary Adams coached player has.
2008-09-22 20:11:44
375.   LoneStar7
we're cursed, and all things related to us : (
2008-09-22 20:11:48
376.   oshea2002
Where'd Glaus go to school again?
2008-09-22 20:11:53
377.   underdog
364 - That's very accurate. Grace is just goofy, Sutton is irredeemably awful in his cheerleading for the Snakes, and moping when things go bad. Terrible.

Oh jeez -- that double play was also terrible. Now I'm going to mope.

2008-09-22 20:12:22
378.   Bob Timmermann
I would blame Glaus more than Miles.
2008-09-22 20:12:44
379.   underdog
Okay, back to my manifesto, chapter 8, Troy Glaus and Aaron Miles.
2008-09-22 20:13:08
380.   JRSarno
Someone else in the MLB actually has RISP problems? Thanks Cards.
2008-09-22 20:13:38
381.   Bob Timmermann
Is your manifesto being typed up single-spaced? Those are the best kind.
2008-09-22 20:13:55
382.   fanerman
357 I think some of us are now reaching for the rat poison.
2008-09-22 20:13:57
383.   lukemccain
Cards are pulling one from the Dodgers playbook. Failure to score with runners on 2nd and 3rd with no outs.
2008-09-22 20:13:59
384.   dzzrtRatt
Bad baserunning will cost the Cardinals this game.
2008-09-22 20:15:05
385.   ucladodger
Well, these last 2 days have been pretty bad in terms of luck for the dodgers. Nothing dropping for Loney that would have won the game, while Miles' turns into 2 outs and basically seals the game for the DBacks.

Also, how can Melvin send Brandon Lyon out there? He's incredibly lucky he didnt blow the game. Lyon and Rauch should be relegated to mop up duty right now.

2008-09-22 20:15:13
386.   underdog
381 Yessir, on one long continuous piece of paper, too, Kerouac-style. I'm also placing sweat, coffee and possibly a few blood stains on it in random intervals to cover up key words or phrases.
2008-09-22 20:16:23
387.   Bob Timmermann
Free baseball in Arlington!
2008-09-22 20:16:41
388.   bhsportsguy
I will say this, those last 2 losses against the Giants at AT&T and then those two losses to the Reds were pretty unlucky for the D-Backs so I guess their fans would say things are evening out.
2008-09-22 20:16:59
389.   Bob Timmermann
So can I get a pdf of this when you're done?
2008-09-22 20:18:01
390.   ucladodger

Dont really remember the details of those games, but as a Dodger fan I believe that all of the luck should belong to the Dodgers and nobody else.

2008-09-22 20:18:09
391.   underdog
389 "pd-" whatnow?
2008-09-22 20:18:12
392.   Bob Timmermann
Aaron Miles tracks fly balls as if he's Lonnie Smith.
2008-09-22 20:19:10
393.   JRSarno
Last chance. I hope Izturis ate his animal style fries.
2008-09-22 20:19:28
394.   underdog
Wait, I'll be back to hear more about your pd something in a minute, got to go listen to the voices now.
2008-09-22 20:20:22
395.   underdog
It's up to the Cardinals vaunted 8-9-1 spots to avoid stepping on our hopes and dreams.
2008-09-22 20:20:54
396.   Eric Stephen
I prefer my manifestos to have letters cut out from magazines and other publications. Sure, it's time consuming, but it really sends the right message.
2008-09-22 20:21:15
397.   bhsportsguy
All you can hope for is that Albert Pujols comes up this inning.
2008-09-22 20:21:19
398.   Tripon
Its that guy from My Name is Earl PH for Thompson.
2008-09-22 20:21:54
399.   Alex41592
Sometimes baseball is pure luck. Recently, the Diamondbacks have been the beneficiary of some strange luck. But, it was bound to happen with what they went through over the past few weeks.

It's not suppose to be easy to clinch divisions and this race is doing some damage to my internal organs.

2008-09-22 20:22:22
400.   Bob Timmermann
So how's the duodenum doing?
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-09-22 20:24:24
401.   Alex41592
400 - Ask me in a week.
2008-09-22 20:26:52
402.   JRSarno
At a boy Cezar, that was for the Dodgers, right?
2008-09-22 20:26:55
403.   Bob Timmermann
Seems awfully funereal in St. Louis.
2008-09-22 20:29:30
404.   underdog
Down to their last out with Pujols on deck and runner at 3rd.

Better turn the ol' Selectric back on...

2008-09-22 20:30:45
405.   Eric Stephen
All I want is one more ball to Lopez.


2008-09-22 20:31:37
406.   JoeyP
5 of 12 good things need to happen for the Dodgers.
2008-09-22 20:31:39
407.   underdog
{type type type type click clack type type}
2008-09-22 20:31:39
408.   Eric Stephen
Another notch on my "I Hate LaRussa" tablet.

Irrational, yes.

2008-09-22 20:31:40
409.   JRSarno
Pathetic. Our lead is two. Must win tomorrow.
2008-09-22 20:32:00
410.   Alex41592
Stage is set. 6 games left. 2 game lead.
2008-09-22 20:32:18
411.   underdog
Sigh. One game at a time, one game at a time.
2008-09-22 20:33:57
413.   Tripon
We better make it 5 Dodgers wins. Sweep San Diego, and take two at San Fran. We can do it.
2008-09-22 20:34:26
414.   I Love LA
This is really our own stupid fault. The Dbacks took care of business by winning 5 in a row while we inexcuably lose 2 of 3 to our arch rival at our own house.
2008-09-22 20:34:48
415.   Icaros
The world is coming to an end.

Also, the Dodgers are only up two games.

2008-09-22 20:35:06
416.   Alex41592
Or it could be over Thursday night.
2008-09-22 20:35:09
417.   bhsportsguy
Now it is up to Johnson, Scherzer and Davis, they must continue to pitch well to make the series back home worth something. Of course, the Dodgers must do their part too.
2008-09-22 20:36:04
418.   sporky
2008-09-22 20:38:04
419.   bhsportsguy
I won't be around for the game chats during the rest of the homestand, I'll be witnessing everything personally tomorrow and Wednesday. Thursday, I'll probably be sequesterd away.
2008-09-22 20:38:34
420.   Eric Stephen
Well at least Underdog won some coin. To pay for his manifesto publishing.
2008-09-22 20:39:06
421.   Icaros
So if the Dodgers are out of the playoffs come Sunday night, will there even be a Monday? If not, I'm using up my PTO this week.
2008-09-22 20:39:16
422.   68elcamino427
Still sitting on the edgde of my seat?
You betcha.
This is fun. The Dodgers can do it.

Go Dodgers!

2008-09-22 20:39:29
423.   Alex41592
I'm disappointed that my final game of the regular season (Wednesday) has no chance of a clinch.

Might want to buy tickets for Saturday's game in San Francisco if you can.

2008-09-22 20:40:47
424.   thinkblue88
That's the spirit!

How can this not be fun!?

2008-09-22 20:42:02
425.   underdog
420 Yep, I'm gonna need all that to pay for shipping charges to the commish's office -- this sucker is fat! And any leftover coin will go to making attractive "End is Nigh" signs to give out to I Love LA and any other interested DT chatters. We can carry them as we pace back in forth outside the MLB office.

421 Check yer email.

2008-09-22 20:43:35
426.   The Dude Abides
OT-All this talk about Kornheiser on Monday Night Football makes me miss Dandy Don. My favorite Meredith line was during a Minnesota Viking game: "And Siemon's shooting all over the field!"

I hope that wasn't a Rule 1 violation

2008-09-22 20:44:03
427.   underdog
Going to the game in SF on Friday has me now excited and terrified in equal measure. Don't know if I can take it.
2008-09-22 20:48:02
428.   bhsportsguy
427 Shoot, I went to all 3 games over the weekend plus the next two games. There is nothing like being there in person.
2008-09-22 20:48:09
429.   Them Blues
Ugh. 12 events left (6 LA, 6 AZ) and 5 positive outcomes needed -- 41.7%

Last 7 events: 2 positive outcomes. 28.6%

Last 11 events: 3 positive outcomes. 27.2%

Say goodbye to my fingernails -- they won't last the week.

2008-09-22 20:51:02
430.   JoeyP
Tomorrow's a must win in that you're not going to get a more favorable matchup than Bills vs LaBlanc the rest of the week.

Things would get mighty dicey if its a 1 game lead, & the Dodgers still having to face Linecum/Peavy.

2008-09-22 20:54:07
431.   Jon Weisman
414 - Dodgers in September:

swept San Diego
swept Arizona
won 2 of 3 at San Diego
won 2 of 3 at Colorado
won 3 of 4 in Pittsburgh
inexcusably lost two of three to San Francisco. No excuse. None. Simply incomprehensible that a team could not win every series against a weaker team.

So yes, the Dodgers' two-game lead and 14-5 September record is indeed their own stupid fault, while the Diamondbacks have surely been taken care of business with their 9-10 record in September.

2008-09-22 20:55:08
432.   bhsportsguy
Not to put too much pressure on the young lads but since the Dodgers are facing LeBlanc and Estes in the first two games of the series is up to the kids, both the regulars and the pitchers, starters Billingsley and Kershaw and then others like Wade, Elbert, and Broxton (maybe Kuo), to win these games.

Sure you have Manny and Casey Blake but I believe it will be Martin, Loney, Kemp, Ethier, DeWitt or even Pee Wee off the bench that will have to come through.

It will be up to Chad and Clayton to keep the team in the game, Cory and Scott to not let that man in scoring position score and then Big Jon to shut the door.

That's a lot riding on 20 to 26 year olds but this is what many here wanted to see. The season is in their hands, they have a little wiggle room but not much. They be best serve to have at least this lead when they fly up to San Francisco, 3 games would better, 4 well, we can dream.

2008-09-22 20:58:23
433.   Jon Weisman
430 - I think the term "must win" has been much abused this month. I think this month has shown that baseball does not automatically award the better starting pitcher the victory.

There are no must wins when you are already in first place. I know what you're saying - it sure would be nice if the Dodgers won against the weaker pitcher - but it's just an overstatement. If San Diego can win a LeBlanc-Billingsley game - and you seem to be conceding that possibility - than surely the Dodgers can win a Billingsley-Lincecum game.
Come on you guys. Don't be this way. Life is too short. I'm not asking for or forcing anyone to be unreasonably positive. That's not my way. But all this doomsday thinking - doesn't it get old for you?

2008-09-22 20:59:52
434.   bhsportsguy
432 I do think this, for a while I think the Dodgers were playing on an edge, not tight but confident. Perhaps that lessened a bit in Pittsburgh, small crowds and then last Tuesday, the Pirates pretty much handed them a win.

They didn't get complacent but I think it showed in those last two games, they just didn't play well. But a lot of that is due to the fact that they have not had good starts in the last 5 games until Lowe pitched yesterday.

2008-09-22 21:00:01
435.   Icaros
Dodgers could go 0-6 the rest of the way and the whole disaster would merely be a small drop in the infinite bucket of sports disappointments I have already endured.

Allowing myself to be angry about it is like getting mad every morning because I never want the sun to come up.

2008-09-22 21:01:18
436.   Bob Timmermann
I bet there are some Red Sox fans who worry that they are going to end up in a one-game playoff with the Yankees.
2008-09-22 21:02:19
437.   JoeyP
432-- I think Manny can win at least one of those games by himself, unless the Padres walk him a ton which could happen.

Wonder if Nomar plays 1st vs LaBlanc & Estes?

2008-09-22 21:02:31
438.   68elcamino427
This great and it is just what I wanted to see. It's extra-extraordinary the way that this scenario has unfolded.
Who would have imagined a situation like this in April?
2008-09-22 21:03:47
439.   bhsportsguy
433 I agree, I am not saying all is doomed but I do think that it will be interesting as a Dodger fan who has followed this collection of talent from their days in Rookie Ball, A, AA, AAA, etc. and now see if they can win a division.

Maybe they will, maybe they won't but it is right there for them.

If they pull it off, I think I will be more excited for them because unlike 2004 and 2006, I think this team is made up with a core of players that I can root for a while.

So its fun, agonizing but never depressing. So have fun folks, it will be something to see.

2008-09-22 21:04:40
440.   bhsportsguy
437 I saw him this weekend, he can't move.
2008-09-22 21:09:21
441.   underdog
Jon, do you mind making a macro out of 431 and 433 and setting them to repeat here twice a day as needed? ;-) In other words, thanks.

I wonder if Jeff Kent will get any PH appearances in this series. I would hope and think so.

And Raffy? Are they holding him out for the whole week?

2008-09-22 21:09:34
442.   Them Blues
433 "But all this doomsday thinking - doesn't it get old for you?"

I couldn't be a Dodgers fan if it did :)

Honestly, in my heart of hearts, I believe they're going to pull this off. I don't think it's going to be easy though, and I don't think it is unrealistic to be concerned.

14-5 in September doesn't mean anything if we can't close the deal. D-backs' 9-10 September record doesn't take away their current momentum, and it doesn't take away their yearlong superior record which allowed them to have that bad month and stay in the chase.

2008-09-22 21:10:02
443.   trainwreck
Hmmm, maybe I should try to go to a game this weekend.
2008-09-22 21:12:18
444.   Reddog
I think the way we should look at the present situation is that for the first five months of the season, we would have been absolutely thrilled and astonished to hear that we would have a two game lead with six games to play.
2008-09-22 21:12:21
445.   Xeifrank
441. I was wondering if maybe Kent would get the start tomorrow vs the LHP LeBlanc. I haven't heard if Kent is healthy enough to field his position, or can only play as a PH?
vr, Xei
2008-09-22 21:12:30
446.   Icaros
When I want to get angry, I imagine how much more breathing room we might have if guys like Ethier weren't getting benched for Ned's trash earlier this year. Even a game or two would be huge right now.

But, like politics and the economy, there's no point in me thinking about it. What a wonderful day...for being sad.

2008-09-22 21:15:22
447.   Bob Timmermann
Torre has said that Kent would only PH and would always be run for if he reached base.
2008-09-22 21:16:17
448.   Bob Timmermann
For the record, Arizona is 10-10 in September now.
2008-09-22 21:17:24
449.   trainwreck
We still got the lead, it's all good.
2008-09-22 21:18:52
450.   Rob M
435 That pretty much encapsulates my fan philosophy.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2008-09-22 21:20:49
451.   Jon Weisman
442 - Of course the goal is more than just having a good three weeks. I was mainly responding to the comment that I, well, responded to.

I would just point out that people are already acting as if the Dodgers can't close the deal based mainly on the fact that they haven't been perfect in September. I mean, yes, they were mediocre for much of the season, but it's kind of weird to suggest they can't close the deal when they've been the hottest team in baseball in the season's final month.

2008-09-22 21:23:53
452.   68elcamino427
I'm ready for a modest one game win streak ...
2008-09-22 21:28:15
453.   Bob Timmermann
Why couldn't Miles have hit it about 15 feet to Eckstein's left?
2008-09-22 21:29:30
454.   Icaros

Because the World's Greatest Fans are overrated?

2008-09-22 21:31:43
455.   Them Blues
451 My concern is not based on a perfect September, it's based on a week of pretty bad baseball. Even our wins were ugly. We're going to have to play better ball than we've played.

I've never taken the chance to thank you for this great site, Jon, so I'll do it now. Thanks! Long time reader, only started posting recently. There is no better place to turn when I'm up or down about the Blue Crew.

2008-09-22 21:34:08
456.   bigcpa

Dodgers are -240 Tuesday (71% shot)

StL is -115 (53% shot)

2008-09-22 21:36:02
457.   68elcamino427
they've been the hottest team in baseball in the season's final month

Gas or Rocket Fuel?

2008-09-22 21:37:58
458.   Eric Stephen
The mom on Worst Week is the same as Earl's mom!
2008-09-22 21:39:03
459.   Jon Weisman
457 - Always like a good callback.
2008-09-22 21:41:36
460.   Jon Weisman
455 - Thanks!
2008-09-22 21:48:45
461.   Tripon,0,4580777.story

Returning to the National League has presented the Dodgers manager with greater strategic challenges. It's definitely not as easy as managing the Yankees.,0,4882010.column

How come no one's talking about that other local team, the one that glided into baseball's playoffs and isn't still trying to get in? Chalk it up to marketing, Manny and a craftily low-key manager.

Don't know Dwyre, could be because the Angels don't actually play in L.A. You might want to go to Orange County in order to hear about the local papers talk about the Angels.

2008-09-22 21:53:42
462.   Bob Hendley
I figured that we would be just about even coming off the road, so being two up with six to play is gravy.
2008-09-22 21:54:01
463.   KG16
461 - as some one who lives in Orange County, despite what the good folks at the OC Register will tell you, the Times is a local paper. And I've really seen more Dodgers gear this year than I've seen Angels gear, even behind the Orange Curtain.

I think no one is talking about them because the division isn't very good and everyone expected them to walk away with the division. Plus, not being the Yankees or the Red Sox doesn't help.

2008-09-22 22:07:47
464.   dzzrtRatt
I turned off Dodger Talk on the way home from Sunday's game because the first caller basically conceded the season to Arizona based on that one day's events. He had every cliche, i.e. "this team has no heart," and predicted that San Diego would sweep us and Arizona would win out. He sounded very bitter, but very certain. He spoke without pause, as if reading from notes.

I found myself wondering what manner of baseball fandom is this? He didn't sound suicidal exactly. It was more that he used the Dodgers to confirm his bleak view of benighted humanity, in particular Dodger humanity. Our opponents would always win, he seemed to be saying. It's all the Dodgers' fault, because they are stupid, weak and untalented, but there's nothing they can do to alter their inevitable fate. Was he a fan or some kind of weird baseball Calvinist?

Anyway, I think that's what Jon is talking about in 433 . If being a Dodger fan makes you miserable, perhaps there are other forms of recreation to consider.

At no point this season did I expect them to be 2 games up with six to play. Not even with Manny. Furcal, LaRoche, Garciaparra, Saito, Penny, Jones, Kent -- this team has been churning players and most teams in such a state of disarray don't win. We also don't have a respectable GM or owner, although you can't avoid giving them a nod for a few of their moves. But this isn't a conceptually brilliant team like Boston, Anaheim or Tampa Bay. It's full of holes, is what it is.

What it comes down to is the players on the field right now, however they got there, wherever they're going next. I love the current lineup! I love the role players (not you Sweeney). I love the rotation and I'm madly in love with the bullpen. I'll go up or down with them. Whatever. They've got plenty of heart, soul, nads, whatever you want to call it. They're as good as they can be right now, this month, and they're going all-out for it. It's all you can ask. Like they used to say in Detroit: Bless you boys. Well yeah.

2008-09-22 22:17:04
465.   Jon Weisman
464 - I liked your comment but that wasn't exactly my point. My point is that, while I understand the idea of lowering expectations and even do so myself often, there comes a time when a) one can go too far in lowering them and b) one can get pretty annoying in going so far.

I don't really think that being a Dodger fan makes people too miserable as much as I think some people really seem to revel in that misery. They might not admit it, but they actually enjoy thinking gloomy thoughts and/or they crave being the ones to say "I told you they'd blow it." Too many times have I seen people take comfort in sorrow.

And if they turn out to be wrong, people will be too happy to care.

2008-09-22 22:30:44
466.   dzzrtRatt
465 I lower my expectations by realizing how happy and surprised I am at what we've got right now, given everything that's gone wrong and everything else that could have gone wrong. My disappointment if they lose will be offset by registering that I fully enjoyed this moment. Nothing can take that away.

Like Warren Zevon said, "Enjoy every sandwich."

2008-09-22 22:32:47
467.   dzzrtRatt
Plus, it's obvious they're going to win the damn thing.

You folks with playoff tickets. Put them somewhere safe. You're going to need at least some of them.

2008-09-22 22:34:19
468.   Robert Fiore
The feeling at this point is not so much defeatism as the sense that this year we've seen them go ice cold and then turn red hot and recoup their losses, but if they go cold now there's not going to be any time to get hot again.
2008-09-22 22:44:53
469.   trainwreck
Heroes rips off other things so blatantly.

Let's just rip off the Fly.

2008-09-22 22:49:08
470.   silverwidow
I expect dramatic changes if we blow this lead. First off, Ned gets fired. McCourt will either go in house with Ng/White or lure Cashman.

Then add a cleanup hitter and an ace to our young nucleus. Maybe even eat Jones and/or Schmidt's dead contracts.

Oh, and no more PVLs types like Sweeney hanging around all season.


2008-09-22 22:57:36
471.   scareduck
465 - between Jon getting a new addition to the family of late and my native disposition I think I'm treading on thin ice around here ...

... heh ...

... but be that as it may, 470 hold your horses. This team will win in dramatic fashion. You heard it here first, or last. The Giants on the road, the last game of the season? Crazier things have happened.

2008-09-22 23:02:53
472.   Tripon
Dodgers sweep San Diego, and Sweep San Fran to win the west.

Now that we got that out of way, Arizona still has to play 3 more games at St. Louis. They're not sweeping that series, and even if they go 3-1, that's what all we need which should leave our lead unchanged as long as we take care of our business.

2008-09-22 23:09:32
473.   Louis in SF
I approached the Dodgers September with a few key series in mind. I figured from Day 1 that if they were close they had a great chance to win the division. In this respect I am happy because they are leading and are not totally relying on another team to help them win.

However, I do believe that history and rivalries do count and count bigger when your main competition has an easier schedule. Many Dodger fans including myself are worried about the Giants and know that these last 3 games are like playoff games for them. San Diego has always played us tough, this season no exception. The D-Backs on the other hand are playing a St. Louis team that most likely will be eliminated tomorrow, I was hoping that they would be in it-making this 4 game series tougher on the Snakes. Once Arizona returns they play Colorado who they are 12-3 against.

So yes we have a lead and I didn't expect it to be 4 games with 6 to play, then I think I could relax, but a 2 game lead with 6 to play with 3 against your historic rival, that makes me nervous. We have clinched at ATT before and I hope we will do it again!

2008-09-22 23:18:41
474.   fanerman
467 A week ago that would have been counting chickens etc. Now I appreciate your optimism.
2008-09-22 23:24:48
475.   Tripon
Sweeney is a good lock to retire this off season.
2008-09-22 23:34:51
476.   JRSarno
I think in my case there is a lot of projected anxiety watching this last week unfold. I watch the Dodgers in rough situations like on Sunday, trying to break a deadlock game, and begin to deeply empathize with an individual scenario -- to the point of feeling that if they don't succeed in a given situation, the season is inevitably lost and they all suck. At least I'm cognizant of my paranoia. Maybe that's why watching them pull out even ugly victories feels that much sweeter in the end. Such are the ebbs and flows of an irrational fan (no matter what the sport)... Anyway, I readily expect to lose my mind several times tomorrow evening.
2008-09-22 23:43:50
477.   PDH5204
Jon, did you have to allude to that game? The Roman Catholic Church, well, what was once demonic is now largely DSM, yet it would take a special rite to exorcise the demons of that one day. And Dante had his vision of hell while I'd my best ever loge seat for mine.
2008-09-22 23:44:14
478.   superbas
i don't think sweeney is thinking retirement at all. he's pretty much given every excuses why he's sucking it up this year.

onto tomorrow i hope billz can fight through his first long season and give us some strong innings. really step up and be the ace in an important game. he usually owns the pads so i'm optimistic.

2008-09-22 23:50:45
479.   Tommy Naccarato
You are right. That's are only hope is to be positive just so these guys come back again and break our hearts--AGAIN....

This is what being a Dodger fan is all about. Pain and suffering. Really, were are no different then the Hebrews being led across the desert for 20 years (actually 40 wasn't it?)(maybe thats what its going to take?) Listen, I would gladly take blue manna from heaven if it would make a difference. Some here just have to realize that.

Anyway, We are destined to have our heart broken again. Count on it. This is what the Dodgers vs. the Giants means. I can feel it; have been saying it all last week when I asked you to post JDT rule on the sidebar, Let's Not Count Our Chicken Until They Hatch...."

If my scenario is right (which I hope it isn't.) We'll lose it on Saturday; adding insult to injury the stinging sensation of a losing streak. You heard it here first. I can feel it. The Giants and their fans will have another laugh on us--some more fuel for the fire; and meanwhile, I'll be scurrying about the place--maybe YouTube to find a clip of Findley's Grand Whammer to stick it back into the gut of those idiots up north.

......and I hope I'm wrong!

In closing, just remember this:
-Wake-up each and everyday of your life heating this team, the San Francisco Giants... And while your at it, hate the New York Yankees too! I've been hating both of those teams my entire life, because that's what Dodger fans do....

2008-09-22 23:55:14
480.   Xeifrank
I simulated each of the remaining Dodgers and Diamondbacks games, using the probable pitching matchups listed by AZSnakePit in Jon's post. I then used the win probabilities of each game and ran a 1,000,000 iteration Monte Carlo for the rest of the season. The Dodgers still look pretty good in terms of making the playoffs. They really need to clinch before the final two games of the season as Haren and Webb are pitching those last two games for the DBacks and the Dodgers look to face Lincecum and Cain over the weekend. I have the data formatted over at Dodger Sims if you are interested.
vr, Xei
2008-09-23 00:15:26
481.   Strike4
With the mission of Dodger Thoughts to deal psychologically with the Dodgers, it's surprising you are annoyed that fans' moods are magnified by the disappointing Giants series. Some of us may try to bury ourselves in the statistics of baseball to tether our emotions, but the Dodgers routinely blow us high or low anyway, especially when the Giants are involved.

On Friday I both lost my job and had to move in freshman Bruin Daughter to Sunset Village. I'm not looking for sympathy from anyone, but I hoped over the weekend the Dodgers would help change me from depressed. They did. They changed me to morose. And that would have shown up in my comments today.

A lot of emotion is let loose in comments gussied up as semi-rational thought, and the cathartic public expression is one of the great joys of this site. Thanks for letting us air it out sometimes.

2008-09-23 00:17:41
482.   jasonungar07
Were a .500 team. Again.
We have had many POOR PVL seasons due to injury or cause they are just plain bad.Again
We have had a very productive farm. Again.
We have had to trade lots of players just to be fighting for a playoff spot. Again.
We have had one of the top 5 payrolls in baseball. Again.

So, in the now I am happy to be 2 up. And in the now Manny (along with our pitching of course) gives us a great chance to represent the NL. But underneath it all I am not thrilled because we can be so much better than this. Maybe I expect to much or care about things I shouldn't

2008-09-23 00:44:48
483.   dzzrtRatt
Strike 4, I'm sorry to hear about your job situation. I hope things turn around quickly for you.
2008-09-23 00:45:53
484.   Jon Weisman
481 - I'm sorry about all the depressing news you got, truly.

As far as your comments about the site go, I appreciate them, but there are limits on commenting here and there always have been. I'm not deleting anyone's hyper-negative comments unless they break the site's specific rules, but I don't see why I shouldn't be annoyed by some that I think are over the top. I am passionate about the Dodgers, and when I believe they are mischaracterized, I react strongly.

I respect everyone here as serious baseball fans, and I hold them to high standards. As I keep saying, this place isn't a rubber room. I'm no therapist, but part of my purpose in dealing psychologically with the Dodgers is to (hopefully with some care) point out when minds are getting cloudy.

2008-09-23 00:56:03
485.   Jon Weisman
484 - In the end, of course, it's just my opinion.
2008-09-23 00:59:02
486.   Andrew Shimmin
When you believe in things that you don't understand,
Then you suffer,
Superstition ain't the way.
2008-09-23 01:38:27
487.   Strike4
Here's hoping for seven years of good luck.
2008-09-23 02:00:07
488.   Strike4
Well explained, Jon. You're right, emotion is no excuse for bad discourse.

Thanks Ratt. I hear a job these days is just the time spent between searches.

2008-09-23 04:56:07
489.   D4P
Sweeney is a good lock to retire this off season

I don't know. $600,000 to strike/fly/ground/pop/line/foul out once a week ain't a bad gig.

2008-09-23 06:12:39
490.   Tommy Naccarato
I log-on here this early morning and I see that somehow, someway some pesky Giant fan found my log-in information and posted in my name last night.

Damn them again. Damn those Giants to Hell!

Go Dodgers, and I can hardly wait for the playoffs to begin in all the Manny luster they will bring!

481 Sorry for the news. It will get better. I know it will.

486 Andrew, you are right. And sometimes being just tired can get to the best of us.

2008-09-23 07:05:39
491.   Daniel Zappala
I am completely and utterly happy with the Dodgers right now. Any time they are in contention, much less have a lead, in September, is a bonus for me. They've been a joy to watch this past month. On top of that, I just picked a peach off my backyard tree so I could have it in my cereal.
2008-09-23 07:10:06
492.   Bluebleeder87
I've never had peaches with cereal but I love peaches as well, add pico de gallo to them & there even juicier & tastier.
2008-09-23 07:16:31
493.   Bluebleeder87
I was reading The Times article on Torre & didn't realize he managed in the NL for 15 years, I've only known of him as a broadcaster & a short stint manager (for the Cards I think) & obviously his best stint with the Yanks, I didn't realize he had a long & leagthy NL career as a manager.
2008-09-23 07:38:45
494.   Bluebleeder87
From the PE Dodger blog: Peavy's status is huge because he owns the Dodgers (12-1, 2.21). Even though Peavy hasn't been his Cy Young self this year, having his start pushed back could have a huge impact on the pennant race in the season's final week. [ ]

all we have to do is win the series & we should be fine.

2008-09-23 07:50:47
495.   JoeyP
The reason why I used the term "must win" for tonight's game is because I feel if the Dodgers lose it, then they will not make the playoffs.

I expect the Dodgers to go 3-3 the rest of the year (assuming a win tonight). I think the Dbax will go 5-1. Thats a tie - 1 game playoff.

Sure, a 16-5 run is great, but I think the reason people dont feel that confident right now is because a mostly .500 team usually cant sustain a 16-5 stretch for a 30 game period.

2008-09-23 07:51:25
496.   Dodger Dawg
The Dodgers will only win if they play well. If they play bad they will lose. It's up to them. If they really want it, it's in their own hands and all they have to do is take it. If they don't make it, they really didn't deserve to make it. It's all up to them. At this point it shouldn't matter what Ariz. does or doesn't do.
2008-09-23 07:55:05
497.   cargill06
Man a sweep would be really nice.
2008-09-23 08:02:04
498.   Bluebleeder87
tropical fruits i don't like:


that's pretty much it. I'm game for pretty much any other exotic fruits & vegies.

2008-09-23 08:02:30
499.   cargill06
495 To assume the D'Backs to go 5-1 is a long shot, technically speaking 4-2 is still not likely.
2008-09-23 08:04:13
500.   Eric Stephen
Aren't the D-Backs also a mostly .500 team, perhaps even less so than the Dodgers? I don't get how the crushing force of realism and doubt is given to the Dodgers (they will go 3-3 because they are essentially a .500 team, a reasonable assumption, sure), but the D-Backs -- also a very flawed team -- are expected to go 5-1.

Why is it that a 2-game lead seems to be less preferred than the alternative?

Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2008-09-23 08:11:20
501.   Bluebleeder87

I think the D-Backs bullpen will tell there story when it's all said & done.

2008-09-23 08:19:32
502.   jasonungar07
Bleeder you don't like Watermelon?
2008-09-23 08:20:41
503.   scareduck
494 - the 4+1 game was a Peavy start.
2008-09-23 08:22:58
504.   Jon Weisman
495 - Well, with all due respect, you're still misusing the term.

I don't need anyone to explain to me why people are losing confidence. Part of it is statements like your final sentence, in which the standard that is set is above the standard that is needed. The Dodgers don't need to play .750 ball to win the division.

2008-09-23 08:23:48
505.   Eric Stephen
The D-Backs have not had a winning streak of longer than 2 games that didn't involve Webb and/or Haren.

The team records when these guys start:

Webb 23-10
Haren 19-13
Big Two: 42-23 (.646)

Johnson 13-15
Davis 11-14
Scherzer 0-6
The "Others": 24-35 (.407)

Remaining Starters for AZ

Only two starts for the Big Two. No reason to be overly concerned.

2008-09-23 08:28:31
506.   D4P
There is, by definition, never a reason to be overly concerned.
2008-09-23 08:29:35
507.   Kevin Lewis
Maybe it's because I got up early to play with my 4 month old son or maybe because I have not followed the Dodgers long enough, but I am expecting them to pull this off.

No matter what this year has been more exciting than I expected. I thought this would be a quasi development year without us even being close to the playoffs, so to even have this drama at the end is a gift. This is what baseball is all about!

2008-09-23 08:36:48
508.   cargill06
What are the Dodgers chances of winning tonight? What are the D'Backs chances of winning tonight?
2008-09-23 08:38:02
509.   oshea2002
The more I look at it from the perspective of "we need 5 good events in 12" to happen, and the more I see who we're facing and who AZ is playing, the more I don't think Torre can justify running Maddux out there again. Obviously these next 2 days matter, but if it comes down to that game being like a playoff game, it would seem to me you have to give someone else a shot.
2008-09-23 08:38:21
510.   Eric Stephen
Apparently 50 and 83.3%, respectively.
2008-09-23 08:38:39
511.   Bob Timmermann
Without a simulator at hand, I would assume the Dodgers chances of winning tonight are greater than the Padres. Primarily because the Dodgers are at home and facing the second worst team in the league.
2008-09-23 08:42:19
512.   Tripon
D'Backs are not going to go 5-1. The Cards team is too good to lose this D'Backs-Cards series to lose a series 3-1.
2008-09-23 08:44:16
513.   cargill06
What would you as a DT community feel comfortable with the magic number be heading into SF? I'd feel pretty comfortable at 2 or less.
2008-09-23 08:45:57
514.   Eric Stephen
The Cards team is too good to lose this D'Backs-Cards series to lose a series 3-1

I don't know if I'd go that far. The Cards have lost their last 4 series, including a sweep in Pittsburgh, and they've lost 10 of 13. They're certainly good enough to lose 3 of 4.

2008-09-23 08:48:32
515.   Eric Stephen
That sounds about right. I might be able to deal with 3 too.
2008-09-23 08:55:57
516.   JoeyP
500- Matchups.

Arizona doesnt have to face Cain/Lincecum/Peavy.

If its a 1 game lead after tonight, I feel the Dbax have the edge. Thats why I think tonight is a must win.

2008-09-23 09:01:35
517.   68elcamino427
With each game - each play - I feel excitement combined with uncertainty ... it's fresh and alive.

Eager anticipation mixed with anxiety.

Pretty much what I felt every time that I have ever stepped into a batter's box.

It's fun.

2008-09-23 09:01:49
518.   Branch Rickey
I think what we can take out of this is that your home team with a 2 game lead and six left to play is essentially a mirror. It tells us more about the person looking at it than it does about itself.
I must say, this being my third September here, that adversity really brings out the worst in many posters here and therefore the general feel of the place. I think this place is best when it's 90% analysis and 10% emotion (which is about what Jon sets it at). When it's 90/10 the other way for anything other than 5 minutes following a HR or a win, it's at it's worst. If you disagree, you might consider at least respecting the wishes of your host who has made those wishes clear.
2008-09-23 09:01:55
519.   JoeyP
505--Scherzer's been great for the Dbax down the stretch. The only starter they have in their rotation that sucks is Doug Davis which I think will result in their 1 loss. (5-1).

If you believe the Dbax will go 5-1, then the Dodgers do need to play .667 ball (4-2) to make the playoffs. Going 4-2 would be quite difficult if they lost tonight (hence making a win tonight of utmost importance).

Going 4-1 vs Peavy/Cain/Lincecum seems easier said than done.

2008-09-23 09:05:36
520.   oshea2002
I disagree on the Cards being too good. They are completely in the tank right now, and have injuries. Aren't they 2-10 in their last 12? They got swept by Pittsburgh. I think them winning 2 of the next 3 would be a minor upset of sorts. I'm hoping for 1 loss in 3 for them, and we take 2 of 3 from SD (obviously 3 of 3 would be ideal).
2008-09-23 09:07:26
521.   Tripon
519 D'Backs haven't actually won a game pitched by Scherzer's yet. Part of it is because he can only pitch 5 innings due to his arm strength only allowing that much right now. Not that they couldn't, but if Scherzer's going 5 innings, then they have to rely on their bullpen for at least 4 innings, including guys like Lyon, Rauch, etc.
2008-09-23 09:08:09
522.   oshea2002
519 - that's the way I'd look at it. I think AZ takes 2 of the final 3, then sweeps. Like you said, that leaves 4 of 6. We certainly should be able to do it. Billingsley mitigates the 2 elite starters we face, and he needs to get 1 of the 2. If we are a playoff team, we should have no problem winning 3 of the other 4. As I mentioned earlier, I'd feel a lot more comfortable not seeing Maddux on the mound in pursuit of that goal.
2008-09-23 09:08:20
523.   Xeifrank
Dodgers: 70.87%
DBacks: 44.92%
Dodgers: 68.11%
DBacks: 44.41%
Dodgers: 62.11%
DBacks: 48.41%
Dodgers: 64.00%
DBacks: 56.78%
Dodgers: 56.96%
DBacks: 75.05%
Dodgers: 49.98%
DBacks: 53.84%
1 Game Playoff
Dodgers: 54.99%
2008-09-23 09:09:46
524.   Branch Rickey
If you believe the Dbax will go 5-1
But why would any rational person expect what is clearly improbable?
2008-09-23 09:09:52
525.   cargill06
519 I just think you don't realize how unlike your thinking is. Of the 5 games in which Webb, Haren, Max, and Johnson are scheduled to be starting down the stretch, if you assume the average probibility of winning each game is 65% (which is probably very generous) the chances of them winning all 5 of those games are 11.6%.
2008-09-23 09:10:15
526.   ToyCannon
This next week will give us heroes and goats and I'm excited to find which we get. If it doesn't work out it doesn't work out, and all those who wanted to plan our future in August get a head start.

It is not like we won't have the Dodger Rays or Angels to root for if we don't make it:)

2008-09-23 09:12:18
527.   cargill06
519 There you go, the chances of them winning all of their non-Davis starts the rest of the year is 4.6%
2008-09-23 09:14:07
528.   cargill06
The chances of our magic number being 3 tomorrow morning is 39%
2008-09-23 09:14:36
529.   fanerman
525 I don't think JoeyP's line of thinking has anything to do with probability.
2008-09-23 09:14:40
530.   Branch Rickey
525 I was just attempting to do that math! Thank you!
So why would anyone bother starting a sentence "if you expect a 9:1 shot to happen, then..."
2008-09-23 09:14:55
531.   dzzrtRatt
When did watermelon get reclassified as a "tropical" fruit?

I haven't been to Hawaii, but I don't recall anyone coming back from there enthralled with the local watermelon.

I also don't recall any episodes of Gilligan's Island that featured a watermelon.

Is this some global warming-related thing? I suppose if the theory's true, eventually polar bears will be "tropical" animals.

2008-09-23 09:17:56
532.   delias man
If I was to go to Vegas, and wager on the Dbacks to win 5 of the next 6 games, with Webb only going once you would all laugh at me and say I played a sucker bet......
2008-09-23 09:18:59
533.   Xeifrank
532. Depends what kind of odds you got. :)
vr, Xei
2008-09-23 09:20:55
534.   old dodger fan
I'll try not to sound like the "old guy" but I've been a fan long enough to see great finishes and collapses. They both happen. We could win all 6 games remaining or lose all 6. Same for the D'Backs.

Sit back and enjoy the moment. Great finishes are what we remember and this is a great finish. If we beat Lincecum 2-1 on Sunday to clinch we will all remember it for years. It's supposed to be fun.

2008-09-23 09:23:28
535.   dzzrtRatt
On the Dbax:

Amazingly enough, the Dbax won Sunday and Monday with Haren and Webb.

Those two won't pitch again til Saturday and Sunday. Assuming you're crediting two of the anticipated five wins to them. you're figuring their other pitchers are good for three wins in a week? It could happen, but it's not the likeliest outcome.

And it's strange that Billingsley, Lowe, Kershaw and Kuroda don't get the same benefit of the doubt, especially when combined with the Dodgers' stellar bullpen.

I think the Dodgers are just as likely to go 5-1 as the Snakes are. Billingsley twice, and Lowe/Kershaw/Kuroda/Maddux once each? That's not chopped liver.

My guess is both teams will go 4-2.

2008-09-23 09:26:10
536.   Jon Weisman
"If you knew absolutely nothing about baseball, didn't know the rules, had never heard of any players, but you had a basic understanding of probability, you would have done better at predicting the 2008 MLB season than pretty much all of the experts on TV. "

2008-09-23 09:26:14
537.   ToyCannon
2008-09-23 09:26:47
538.   underdog
534 535 are both well put!


I do sometimes feel like we're in that scene in "Chicken Run" where the old rooster colonel says, "Nobody panic!" And then there's a pause, followed by all the hens yelling and panicking

One game at a time, folks.

I would like to see magic number down to 2 by the SF series. I'll admit to being nervous if it's higher than that.

2008-09-23 09:27:30
539.   Daniel Zappala
I really like the sector graph posted today at SOSG.
2008-09-23 09:28:41
540.   ToyCannon
Being nervous is good, freaking out over being nervous is ........
2008-09-23 09:29:07
541.   fanerman
531 Yeah.. I didn't realize that either.
2008-09-23 09:33:54
542.   Xeifrank
536. Yes, and Tom Tango and others pointed out that the RMSE might not be the best way to evaluate these predictions, since someone picking 81-81 records for all teams does even better than Vegas. Vegas Watch is going to do another post on this topic after the season is over, looking at other methods. It might be interesting to watch for.
vr, Xei
2008-09-23 09:35:30
543.   Doctor
Hey guys- I have to sell 6 tickets to Sundays (hopefully it doesn't matter!!!) game. $510 for all 6- these are insane seats a few feet from home plate (better than McGowan's seats). Its a little below face. Unfortunately I have to sell them all at once (travelling/in and out of the city all week). Let me know if anyone is interested, im posting them to Craig's List this morning.... From these seats you can talk walk right up to the dugout wall/talk to the players etc..

2008-09-23 09:36:56
544.   Jon Weisman
542 - Actually, I don't even know what RMSE is.
2008-09-23 09:38:33
545.   MC Safety
I don't know why, but I'm optimistic. The Pads are going to let Old Friend Maddux dominate them, watch. Maddux has juice like that. Something tells me that those AA hitters the Pads are running out there could be easily swayed. Maddux is from Vegas, after all.
2008-09-23 09:40:29
546.   Harold M Johnson
I believe I commented about a month ago that it's all going to come down to the Giants. And that's as it should be! Clinching in AT&T will be awesome-- I'll be nervous as can be but it will be so sweet to clinch in the hated ones' yard.
2008-09-23 09:43:00
547.   Tripon
545 That didn't happen when Maddux pitched in San Diego against the Padres.
2008-09-23 09:43:03
548.   cargill06
What were Pecota's W-L predictions for, NYY, Sea, Col?
2008-09-23 09:43:50
549.   jasonungar07
It seems with all the numbers and all the match ups some would rather be Arizona today? Come on if you were them you would make up reasons you couldn't run the table and how you wish you were dodger fans today.
2008-09-23 09:44:22
550.   MC Safety
547 And...
Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2008-09-23 09:44:48
551.   Bob Timmermann
2008-09-23 09:45:22
552.   oshea2002
I've mentioned before that I live in Illinois, surrounded by Cubs fans. They are of course still cheering for the Dodgers to get in, although now they've switched course and want NYM and LAD in that order, figuring that's a cakewalk.

My one friend sent out an email stating that the Dodgers have no chance in the playoffs, b/c their 1, 2 of Lowe and Kershaw just doesn't stack up to anyone elses, and everyone behind those two is a journeyman starter.

2008-09-23 09:45:37
553.   old dodger fan
As much as I would love to see the game in LA tonight if there was 1 game anywhere I could go to it would be White Sox- Twins. Twins get a final shot at the playoffs and "must win" at least 2 of the 3.
2008-09-23 09:47:13
554.   fanerman
552 His Thighness never gets any love.
2008-09-23 09:47:59
555.   Xeifrank
552. Show them the post from yesterday about how only the Dodgers and DBacks have a shot at two starting pitchers with an ERA+ of over 130 and over 200 IPs. Sounds like your Cubs friends have been drinking the ESPN kool-aid a little too much. :)
vr, Xei
2008-09-23 09:49:33
556.   Xeifrank
551. Now for extra credit, can you use those four words in a non mathematical sentence?
vr, Xei
2008-09-23 09:51:04
557.   old dodger fan
I'll root for that mean third baseman to make an error and square the score.
2008-09-23 09:52:27
558.   cargill06
555 Judging from the E-Mail they have no idea what ERA+ is.
2008-09-23 09:53:40
559.   Xeifrank
558. Yes, and perhaps it's just best to buy the guy another beer instead. vr, Xei
2008-09-23 09:54:08
560.   Daniel Zappala
My mean brother poured my root beer down the sink, then claimed it was my error for leaving it on the counter while I dallied in the square.
2008-09-23 09:56:09
561.   Bluebleeder87

Nope. Never have for some reason. some of my favorite fruits includ strawberries & guava among others.

2008-09-23 09:57:32
562.   old dodger fan
Speaking of ERA+ (or OPS+ for that matter), how is the scale graded? How much better is someone with a 110 than a 100? I assume it's somehow related to standard deviation but I don't know. Thanks
2008-09-23 09:57:46
563.   Tripon

Tony Jackson isn't going all sky is falling on us. I feel disappointed.

2008-09-23 09:59:46
564.   Bob Timmermann
He must have had a good elevator experience.
2008-09-23 10:00:47
565.   Xeifrank

vr, Xei

2008-09-23 10:07:49
566.   Jon Weisman
This might only have meaning to me, but here's a column on the Daily News move:

2008-09-23 10:12:09
567.   old dodger fan
565 Thank you. That is helpful.
2008-09-23 10:14:54
568.   Bluebleeder87

I wasn't gonna use tropical but at the last minute threw it in there for some reason. :o)

2008-09-23 10:17:11
569.   kinbote
One of my favorite quotations in literature comes from Richard Ford's Independence Day:

"There is no such thing as a false sense of security."

To me, all we need to do is maintain our two-game lead heading into the S.F. series. If we do that, it would take a miracle for Arizona beat us.

I know feathers get ruffled around here occasionally, but I've been enjoying the discussion immensely. It adds a tremendous context and depth to the games themselves.

2008-09-23 10:22:29
570.   LogikReader

I mean, the root of the problem is that Jimmy is too much of a square to go out with the Lovely Rachel without the error of alcohol.

2008-09-23 10:22:53
571.   Eric Stephen
LA Dodger Playoff Clinchers

At Home
On the 2nd to last day of the year, Steve Finley's grand slam caps a 7-run 9th inning rally (all with none out) to erase a 3-0 deficit, beating and eliminating the Giants
Hershiser wins #19, Marshall falls a triple short of the cycle to beat Atlanta; Dodgers clinch division over the Reds
Dave Anderson's 6th inning HR gives LA a 4-0 lead over SF. Fernando holds on to get the win, with a 2-inning save from rookie Orel Hershiser. Dodgers clinch division over the Braves
Rookie Bob Welch shuts out the Padres 4-0 to eliminate the Reds.
The Dodgers, behind a CG, 13-K performance from Koufax, beat the Braves 3-1 on the next to last day of the season to eliminate the Giants. The Dodgers finished the year 15-1.
Don Drysdale's 7 strong IP combined with a 3-run 7th inning rally capped by a walk (to Ken McMullen) and a balk gave the club a 4-1 win over the Mets, eliminating the Cards with 5 games left.
After winning game 1 of a 3-game playoff in Milwaukee, the Dodgers won the pennant by beating the Braves 6-5 in 12 innings. With Gil Hodges on 2B, Carl Furillo singled to SS Felix Mantilla, whose wild throw allowed Hodges to lumber home with the pennant-winning run.

On the Road
On the 2nd to last day of the year, Greg Maddux goes 7 strong innings for a 4-2 win at AT&T Park. The win eliminates the Phillies from wild card contention.
HRs from Piazza and Mondesi back Hideo Nomo's 8 innings for a 7-2 Dodger win in San Diego. This win clinched the division over the Rockies, who ended up as the wild card team
Tommy John outduels Ed Halicki at Candlestick, going 8.2 IP for his 19th win. The immortal Lance Rautzhan strikes out Gary Thomasson with the tying runs on base to preserve the 3-1 win, eliminating the Reds.
The Dodgers amazingly score 5 off fireballer J.R. Richard at the Astrodome, the capper being rookie John Hale's PH 2-run double in the 6th (Hale was 4 for 4 on the season). The Dodgers' balanced attack leads them to an 8-5 win, clinching the division over the Reds on the 2nd to last day of the year.
On the final day of the season, the Dodgers needed to win one game of the doubleheader at Shibe Park in Philly. After Drysdale only lasted 2 IP of a 4-3 loss in game 1, the Dodgers needed to win game 2 to hold off the Giants. Willie Davis hit a 2-run HR off Jim Bunning, and Koufax took a 6-0 lead into the 9th, holding on for a 6-3 win in the final regular season start of his amazing career.

2008-09-23 10:25:30
572.   LogikReader
Now, how am I going to compete with 571 ? That is an excellent break-down, Eric.

So if I'm looking at it right, the majority of their playoff berths were clinched on the final weekend or within the final week.

That's really cool, although statistically sensible.

2008-09-23 10:25:42
573.   ToyCannon
That was news to me, I thought they had been there a lot longer then 21 years. They have been around ever since I moved into the West Valley. I wish I had never left the East Valley.
2008-09-23 10:27:00
574.   Bob Timmermann
I thought in 1983 that the Dodgers clinched before the end of their game when the Braves lost in San Diego.
2008-09-23 10:28:34
575.   Eric Stephen
There's a decent chance some of the divisions/pennants were clinched earlier in the day with a loss by the chasing club. I will do some more digging to find out the times of the games of the dates in question.

For instance, on October 2, 1985, the Dodgers only needed a win or a Reds loss. It was a Wednesday night, and they got both. The Reds loss in SD was 42 minutes shorter than the Dodger win so maybe they celebrated in the dugout earlier!

2008-09-23 10:30:44
576.   Bob Timmermann
Most would prefer this though:

On September 8, 1955, the Brooklyn Dodgers score four runs in the first off of Bob Buhl of Milwaukee and set a National League record for the earliest pennant clinching date ever, as they win 10-2.

The earliest date overall is September 4 by the 1941 Yankees.

2008-09-23 10:30:47
577.   ToyCannon

Looks like we were only breathing easy in 63 and 77. I so remember Hale being 4 for 4 and waiting to see what the next season would bring for him.

2008-09-23 10:31:14
578.   Eric Stephen
Also, the Dodgers clinched a playoff spot on Friday 9/27/96 with an Expos loss to Atlanta. The Dodgers, however, were busy getting swept by the Padres in a series everyone down here thinks has some amazing meaning, even though both teams clinched a playoff spot by Saturday night.
2008-09-23 10:31:34
579.   LogikReader
I don't see an entry for 1988. Nonetheless, it seems like it's been about 4 years since the Dodgers clinched a playoff berth at home. I still remember that year like it was yesterday!
2008-09-23 10:31:49
580.   Bob Timmermann
I believe the timing in 1983 was something like:

Scoreboard announces Braves loss.
Crowd cheers.
Dodgers wave from dugout.
Anderson homers soon after.

2008-09-23 10:32:30
581.   Eric Stephen
I have been in attendance at the last two road clinchings, which is why I'm sooooo tempted to make a trip this weekend to SF.
2008-09-23 10:34:33
582.   Jon Weisman
Sorry, NPUT
2008-09-23 10:35:31
583.   Eric Stephen
An egregious oversight!

Dodgers beat the Padres 3-2 in San Diego to eliminate Pete Rose's Reds. Fernando goes 3 IP, but got hurt. Peña got the win, his second most important that year. The final out was a Jay Howell-induced popup by Marvell Wynne to Steve Sax. Two nights later, Hershiser went 10 scoreless for the record.

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