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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Not Bad for a Fourth Outfielder
2008-09-23 10:27
by Jon Weisman

The Dodgers' nominee for the Hank Aaron Award, presented to the top offensive performer in each league, is Andre Ethier, reports Michael Schwartz of

A full ballot for the fan vote can be found here. Not sure Ethier will beat Albert Pujols, but maybe he can top Lastings Milledge.

Comments (109)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-09-23 10:32:11
1.   scareduck
You must be rounding up. Isn't Ethier a 3.5th outfielder? <ducks>
2008-09-23 10:35:37
2.   Jon Weisman
1 - I thought about that, but it doesn't work well in a headline, especially for those who won't know what it means.

I guess I could say, "Not Bad, 3.5."

2008-09-23 10:39:25
3.   Eric Stephen
I'm going to repost this with 1988 added in...

LA Dodger Playoff Clinchers

At Home
On the 2nd to last day of the year, Steve Finley's grand slam caps a 7-run 9th inning rally (all with none out) to erase a 3-0 deficit, beating and eliminating the Giants
Hershiser wins #19, Marshall falls a triple short of the cycle to beat Atlanta; Dodgers clinch division over the Reds. (Note: the Reds loss may have been before the Dodger win)
Dave Anderson's 6th inning HR gives LA a 4-0 lead over SF. Fernando holds on to get the win, with a 2-inning save from rookie Orel Hershiser. Dodgers clinch division over the Braves (Note: the Braves loss in San Diego ended before this game)
Rookie Bob Welch shuts out the Padres 4-0 to eliminate the Reds.
The Dodgers, behind a CG, 13-K performance from Koufax, beat the Braves 3-1 on the next to last day of the season to eliminate the Giants. The Dodgers finished the year 15-1.
Don Drysdale's 7 strong IP combined with a 3-run 7th inning rally capped by a walk (to Ken McMullen) and a balk gave the club a 4-1 win over the Mets, eliminating the Cards with 5 games left.
After winning game 1 of a 3-game playoff in Milwaukee, the Dodgers won the pennant by beating the Braves 6-5 in 12 innings. With Gil Hodges on 2B, Carl Furillo singled to SS Felix Mantilla, whose wild throw allowed Hodges to lumber home with the pennant-winning run.

On the Road
On the 2nd to last day of the year, Greg Maddux goes 7 strong innings for a 4-2 win at AT&T Park. The win eliminates the Phillies from wild card contention.
HRs from Piazza and Mondesi back Hideo Nomo's 8 innings for a 7-2 Dodger win in San Diego. This win clinched the division over the Rockies, who ended up as the wild card team
Dodgers beat the Padres 3-2 in San Diego to eliminate Pete Rose's Reds. Fernando goes 3 IP, but got hurt. Peña got the win, his second most important that year. The final out was a Jay Howell-induced popup by Marvell Wynne to Steve Sax. Two nights later, Hershiser went 10 scoreless for the record.
Tommy John outduels Ed Halicki at Candlestick, going 8.2 IP for his 19th win. The immortal Lance Rautzhan strikes out Gary Thomasson with the tying runs on base to preserve the 3-1 win, eliminating the Reds.
The Dodgers amazingly score 5 off fireballer J.R. Richard at the Astrodome, the capper being rookie John Hale's PH 2-run double in the 6th (Hale was 4 for 4 on the season). The Dodgers' balanced attack leads them to an 8-5 win, clinching the division over the Reds on the 2nd to last day of the year.
On the final day of the season, the Dodgers needed to win one game of the doubleheader at Shibe Park in Philly. After Drysdale only lasted 2 IP of a 4-3 loss in game 1, the Dodgers needed to win game 2 to hold off the Giants. Willie Davis hit a 2-run HR off Jim Bunning, and Koufax took a 6-0 lead into the 9th, holding on for a 6-3 win in the final regular season start of his amazing career.

2008-09-23 10:43:23
4.   Bluebleeder87
I just submited my vote for Ethier.
2008-09-23 10:45:21
5.   underdog
3 I hope we can add '08 to that list for next time. :-( :-)

I decided I'm not going to bathe again until the Dodgers win. Since my g/f is gone this week she won't notice. Maybe my coworkers will. Don't worry, Icaros, I'll break this vow for Friday night at the worst. Don't keep me stinky, Dodgers!

2008-09-23 10:46:29
6.   Kevin Lewis

Get the bubbles ready because you will be soaking tonight!

2008-09-23 10:48:39
7.   fanerman
I did, too. It's a civic duty.
2008-09-23 10:48:57
8.   Eric Stephen
Calgon, take Underdog away!
2008-09-23 10:49:31
9.   Bluebleeder87
03 '04 the way they won & against who they won it, was just magical, I jumped just as hay as I did when Kirk Gibson hit that home run against Eckersley...
2008-09-23 10:50:19
10.   sajjushah
man o man
2008-09-23 10:50:47
11.   Xeifrank
3.5 on the richter scale.
vr, Xei
2008-09-23 10:51:07
12.   LogikReader
I voted too! Go 'dre!

Then I voted for Aubrey Huff, just to anger the other AL fans.

2008-09-23 10:51:14
13.   bryanf
"I don't care about what the league thinks or what they do," he said. "I've got enough money to pay any fine they've got. Trust me."

Gary Sheffield, a real class act.

2008-09-23 10:53:50
14.   underdog
6 {in Kramer voice:} Oh, they're ready, they're ready!
2008-09-23 10:55:29
15.   Bluebleeder87
another thing about Ethier is that he's had a number of great game ending key hits since last year, good for him man.
2008-09-23 10:55:34
16.   Rob M
3 Slightly off topic, but I drove down to the Murph to see Orel break the scoreless inning record in '88. Me and two friends were on the beach in Laguna that day and started talking about the fact that Orel was pitching that night and was 10 innings away. We all agreed that the Dodgers' offense was inept enough that year to make a scoreless tie after 9 highly possible, so we decided to drive down and give it a go.
2008-09-23 10:59:17
17.   Harold M Johnson
Worried about Kuo:
2008-09-23 11:00:46
18.   Kevin Lewis

Awesome story.

I think the last week of 2006 I went to 6 of the 7 home games. I needed some sort of support group.

2008-09-23 11:02:04
19.   Tripon
Garrett (CT): Cano for Kemp?

SportsNation Buster Olney: (1:58 PM ET ) Garrett: Pretty fair deal.

No its not!

2008-09-23 11:04:12
20.   Xeifrank
16. So what ended up happening? Can't believe you didn't finish up the story! :)
vr, Xei
2008-09-23 11:06:45
21.   D4P
Ethier has the 2nd highest % of PAs among Dodgers vs. the opposite-handed pitcher (and thus, the 2nd lowest % vs. the same-handed pitcher).

Ethier is 2nd only to Sweeney.

2008-09-23 11:07:22
22.   fanerman
21 That almost certainly helps his numbers, but that's not really his fault.
2008-09-23 11:09:31
23.   underdog
19 He has to be kidding?

I wish that chat didn't end before I could ask him that myself.

2008-09-23 11:12:37
24.   bhsportsguy
22 Well, it is his "fault" that his production dropped off against lefthanders for much of the year. Players control what they do with the opportunities they are given.
2008-09-23 11:13:51
25.   bhsportsguy
23 I think its fair in the sense that right now, if Cano repeated his 2007 offense and defense, he could be as valuable as Matt Kemp.
2008-09-23 11:15:42
26.   underdog
25 I don't know too many scouts who would put Cano's ceiling as high as Kemp's though, or that he has the same amount of tools, and his horrible 2008 has to be a warning sign, should have decreased his value separate from whatever he did in 07, imho.
2008-09-23 11:16:50
27.   fanerman
22 I was just implying something involving Pierre or Jones starting over Ethier or something.
2008-09-23 11:22:38
28.   bhsportsguy
One thing that might explain why Ethier has had a good last two months, he did not play everyday in May, June, July. Kemp, Loney, and Martin are all playing the most games in their career and have been regulars for almost the whole year (certainly Loney and Martin) and they are having Septemeber swoons.
2008-09-23 11:23:02
29.   Bluebleeder87
I'm hoping Matt Kemp projects more like a Pedro Guerrero (that's my hope) but I can definitely see him more in the lines of a 22-26 home run guy with a nice average & slugging.
2008-09-23 11:24:00
30.   Tripon
Viva El Birdos says the Cardinals should offer Ryan Ludwick and others for Matt Cain. Can't hurt to ask.

That's hilarious.

2008-09-23 11:24:15
31.   Eric Stephen
I believe this has to be something like 10 days straight discussing Cano and/or Cano v. Kemp.

Somehow this vortex keeps sucking us in. Maybe we should talk about Cano's salary so D4P can express outrage about his relative worth.

2008-09-23 11:25:38
32.   Kevin Lewis

If it helps...yesterdays conversation has me valuing Kemp more now, especially with the position he plays and the relative cost for his performance.

2008-09-23 11:26:34
33.   Rob M
20 I thought you already knew ;).

We did leave after the 10 and missed the Dodgers' loss which came a few innings later. I also went to a playoff game in Shea that year (I was all over the place that year!). I believe it was a Dodger win in a Belcher start. I was way up in the upper deck in right, couldn't even see part of the outfield from that seat.

2008-09-23 11:28:07
34.   Bluebleeder87
i don't even give it a fighting chance, i get swooped it right away... hey Eric what do you think? what kind of player [Kemp] do you think he'll project, numbers wise?
2008-09-23 11:28:27
35.   D4P
I took the liberty of calculating two sets of figures. The first set below is a player's weighted OPS, assuming (1) that he had gotten exactly half of his PAs vs LH, and half vs. RH, and (2) that his current LH and RH splits OPS stayed the same. The second set of figures shows a player's actual OPS minus his weighted OPS.

Ethier has the 3rd most advantageous actual LH-RH split, behind Sweeney and Manny.

Manny Ramirez 1.190
Matt Kemp 0.850
Andre Ethier 0.822
Pablo Ozuna 0.813
N. Garciaparra 0.783
R. Martin 0.757
Blake DeWitt 0.750
Jeff Kent 0.749
James Loney 0.747
Casey Blake 0.740
Delwyn Young 0.691
Juan Pierre 0.671
Gary Bennett 0.657
Andy LaRoche 0.652
Angel Berroa 0.649
Danny Ardoin 0.578
Andruw Jones 0.534
Mark Sweeney 0.364

Mark Sweeney 0.062
Manny Ramirez 0.055
Andre Ethier 0.054
James Loney 0.029
Casey Blake 0.025
Danny Ardoin 0.018
R. Martin 0.008
Andy LaRoche -0.011
Gary Bennett -0.015
Jeff Kent -0.015
Angel Berroa -0.020
Delwyn Young -0.021
Andruw Jones -0.029
Juan Pierre -0.037
Blake DeWitt -0.046
N. Garciaparra -0.054
Matt Kemp -0.058
Pablo Ozuna -0.105

2008-09-23 11:33:44
36.   Jon Weisman
2008-09-23 11:33:50
37.   underdog
How about Cain for Cano? (Killing three stories with one stone.) That has a certain alliterative symmetry to it.
2008-09-23 11:37:16
38.   oshea2002
This may be old news, but apparently the Padres moved things around and Le Blanc is pitching tonight. Per Peavy pushed to Thur.
2008-09-23 11:43:03
39.   D4P

And Sweeney would be even worse if he had an even LH-RH split. Unfathomable.

2008-09-23 11:47:50
40.   scareduck
5 - you need to change your nick to "underarm".
2008-09-23 11:50:07
41.   underdog
40 The judges also accept "Whiffy McPugh." Hopefully it'll be a very short-lived moniker.
2008-09-23 11:59:50
42.   bhsportsguy
From "The Biz of Baseball"

To the chagrin of Bob Timmermann and Andrew Shinmin

The strong growth area continues to be MLB Advanced Media. While revenues have not been formally disclosed, BusinessWeek reported in August that MLBAM brings in about $450 million per year, about half of which comes from live game streaming.

According to Sports Business Journal, MLBAM set records in a number of areas for the digital media arm:

Online ticket sales - 31.5 million and counting;
All-Star Game votes cast - 262.6 million;
Total multimedia consumption - 3.6 billion minutes through Aug. 31;
Wireless page views - more than 450 million.

2008-09-23 12:08:04
43.   Bob Timmermann
Wally Joyner has quit as the Padres hitting coach. He may or may not be at the stadium tonight.
2008-09-23 12:09:30
44.   regfairfield
43 Shouldn't you jump out of the plane before it hits the ground?
2008-09-23 12:11:35
45.   Tripon
You can quit with six games left in the season?
2008-09-23 12:12:10
46.   silverwidow
Junichi Tazawa:

He's younger than Billingsley, but has comparable stuff. I REALLY hope we target him this offseason.

2008-09-23 12:15:57
47.   Tripon
Tazawa going to need at least a year in the minors. And a Dodgers scout said he's already targeting the Red Sox.
2008-09-23 12:16:22
48.   JRSarno
I hope the odds of a Dodger win coupled with a Diamondback loss are GREATER than the odds of Torre putting in Kent as a pinch hitter tonight. DeWitt has done a solid job, methinks.
2008-09-23 12:16:26
49.   Kevin Lewis

Japanese Baseball needs to work harder to get those videos off youtube. It could hurt revenue.

2008-09-23 12:18:11
50.   Tripon
The A's need to move to Portland. That is all.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-09-23 12:19:02
51.   John Hale
3 I had no idea that any of John Hales hits actually meant something. I had assumed they were against scrubs not JR Richard. Awesome.
I have consumed a few thousand minutes of Dodger games via (Mosaic) and have little to complain about, particularly now that both home and away announcers are available to choose from. My wife can't change the channel on my laptop so it beats extra innings.
2008-09-23 12:24:09
52.   Tripon
I am watching Outside the Lines right now and they're doing a Maple Bats story. I am still not sure what is the difference between OTL, and E:60 outside of cellphones and people jumping out of subways.
2008-09-23 12:28:12
53.   thinkblue88
I don't know Japanese, but I'm guessing the chart that they show is saying that he threw 158 pitches in 9 innings?
Anyone have some stats on the guy?
2008-09-23 12:33:32
54.   underdog
50 They're already moving to Fremont.

The Rays or Marlins should move to Portland.

2008-09-23 12:34:40
55.   underdog
48 Couldn't Kent come in as a PH separately from how it affects DeWitt?
2008-09-23 12:35:41
56.   Tripon
How many only PH able players do you need? And I'm scared that Ozuna will make the post season roster over Hu.
2008-09-23 12:39:54
57.   Bluebleeder87
all of a suden the Rays are a wanted commodity...
2008-09-23 12:42:33
58.   old dodger fan
The Los Angeles Rays of Pomona!
2008-09-23 12:43:01
59.   ToyCannon
The Rays should move to San Antonio/Austin. It is the only way the state of Texas will be home to an eventual world series champion.
2008-09-23 12:43:02
60.   Bluebleeder87

I wonder how all other major sports due also.

2008-09-23 12:44:30
61.   ToyCannon
You would think that the Eastern counties of Riverside/San Berdo would be able to support a major league franchise but I expect the McCourts and Moreno's would frown on such a thing.
2008-09-23 12:45:22
62.   bhsportsguy
56 I think you shouldn't worry since there is no way Hu will be on the post-season roster.
2008-09-23 12:46:10
63.   bhsportsguy
61 Also the California League would not be happy about it.
2008-09-23 12:47:23
64.   Bob Timmermann
158 pitches in 9 innings for a young Japanese pitcher is nothing. Mere child's play.

On July 24, Yu Darvish of Nippon Ham threw 165 pitches in 8 innings.

2008-09-23 12:47:23
65.   Alex41592
What everybody needs is a Dodger win combined with a D'Backs loss. That will makes people feel much better, so lets just do that.
2008-09-23 12:47:55
66.   Tripon
Marlins should move to Mexico City.
2008-09-23 12:48:51
67.   Alex41592
Apparently I'm adding an S this afternoon to words. This is a new challenge I shall have to overcome.
2008-09-23 12:50:40
68.   Disabled List
I am absolutely convinced that all the premature talk of postseason rosters on this board is what has propelled the Diamondbacks to 7 wins in their last 8 games.

You cannot, and will not, shake me of this belief.

2008-09-23 12:50:53
69.   Tripon
62 Ozuna as your primary backup is a recipe of epic late inning losses.
2008-09-23 12:51:06
70.   underdog
66 Or the happiest place on earth -- Tijuana!
2008-09-23 12:53:22
71.   Alex41592
Well I know I'm geared up for two important ballgames today.

The Rays and Orioles doubleheader! Especially Game 2 in which the vaunted Mitch Talbot tangles with the great Alfredo Simon.

2008-09-23 12:53:36
72.   underdog
69 Don't forget to mix Furcal into the equation. I know it sounds like wishful thinking... IF the DOdgers make the playoffs, which they may very well not. Okay, no more talk of postseason rosters, I'm with DL. I hate to get all superstitious but... can't it wait at least a few days?
2008-09-23 12:54:22
73.   Jon Weisman
This was subjective, but I thought Hu looked surprisingly tentative fielding the grounder in the 11th inning that was beaten out for a hit. It wasn't a hard-hit ball, and a little bit more of an aggressive approach would have taken the umpire out of the play. What did you all think?
2008-09-23 12:55:08
74.   ToyCannon
Yup it was us and not the teams involved in the actual playing of the games who caused the lead to shrink to two games.
2008-09-23 12:56:43
75.   Bob Timmermann
That's crazy talk in the land of Rule 9.
2008-09-23 12:57:33
76.   Disabled List
74 We are ripe for a smiting by the cosmic baseball karma gods. Taunt them at your own risk.
2008-09-23 12:57:51
77.   Alex41592
Perhaps we should discuss the Diamondbacks postseason roster. Though, typing that just now has made me upset.
2008-09-23 12:58:32
78.   bhsportsguy
73 I agree, as I had a clean look at the play.
2008-09-23 12:58:51
79.   ToyCannon
Land of the Giants, I had totally forgotten about that show until your little post.
2008-09-23 12:59:03
80.   Jon Weisman
Is it fair to say that if one of Loney's hits had fallen Sunday, we'd have seen about 75 percent less angst over the past 45 hours?
2008-09-23 12:59:33
81.   Bluebleeder87

Guadalajara or Monterey are much better options but yeah Mexico city is a great baseball town as well.

how about the yucatan peninsula. :0)

2008-09-23 13:00:54
82.   Icaros

I think Angst+ would've been around 80 as opposed to the 120 that it is now.

2008-09-23 13:00:58
83.   bhsportsguy
72 Talking about the postseason roster has no affect on what happens.

Now, eating a certain cereal on game day or wearing your UCLA Adidas shorts to night games does affect what happens.

I blame myself for wearing cargo shorts on Sunday (though I did match LAT) instead of my trusty UCLA shorts for the lack of runs scored.

2008-09-23 13:01:17
84.   Alex41592
80 - I know my duodenum would've appreciated it.
2008-09-23 13:02:34
85.   Tripon
Angel Roster


2008-09-23 13:02:44
86.   I Love LA
65 - I totally agree, but the dbacks are running on some serious luck. Seems like they just might win 8 in a row or more so what if Bills gets no run support tonight and the opposite of what we want happens?
2008-09-23 13:03:00
87.   bhsportsguy
Red Sox are retiring Johnny Pesky's number this weekend, no word if they will put it on the foul pole that bares his name.
2008-09-23 13:06:04
88.   Bluebleeder87
just checked Dodgers dot Com & i'm fairly confident Billz can put up a W tonight.
2008-09-23 13:06:32
89.   ToyCannon
I'm wearing my 2008 Western Division Champion Hat to the game tonight that I pre-ordered when we signed Andruw Jones last winter.
2008-09-23 13:09:07
90.   Jim Hitchcock
65 I'm just going with the immortal words of Alfred E. Neuman; `What, me worry \0/ ?'
2008-09-23 13:09:49
91.   underdog
88 What does do? Did it show us winning? ;-)

Jon, I agree about Hu, though I thought he got a good jump on the ball. He looked tentative making the throw, though. But, yeah, again, if one of Loney's hits had fallen in there would no need to discuss that 11th inning, and a bit less angst right now.

2008-09-23 13:09:55
92.   Tripon
Andruw Jones is the missing link.
2008-09-23 13:10:09
93.   D4P
I'm wearing my 2008 Western Division Champion Hat to the game tonight that I pre-ordered when we signed Andruw Jones last winter

Does it feature a large serpentine "D"...?

2008-09-23 13:16:08
94.   Bluebleeder87
i'm sure the Dodgers will look for any sign of Billingsley tiring (inning by inning) in this outing.
2008-09-23 13:19:00
95.   underdog
89 Hopefully that won't end up in your collection next to the "Dewey Beats Truman" newspaper.
2008-09-23 13:20:17
96.   Tripon
We need Kuo back.
2008-09-23 13:21:10
97.   bhsportsguy
70 Bart: Well, actually, the bear just ate his hat.
Krusty: Was it a nice hat?
Bart: Oh yeah.
Krusty: [horrified] Oh My God!!
2008-09-23 13:21:37
98.   Bluebleeder87
Innings pitched per year by Billz:

'06 - 90
'07 - 147
'08 - 192.7

i'm not paraniod, just checking. ;o)

2008-09-23 13:24:17
99.   cargill06
Thanks to Xei's simulator I came up with the odds of each team's finish, here they are.
6-0 2.2%
5-1 12.2%
4-2 27.0%
3-3 31.6%
2-4 19.8%
1-5 6.3%
0-6 0.8%
6-0 5.5%
5-1 20.7%
4-2 32.3%
3-3 26.3%
2-4 12.0%
1-5 2.8%
0-6 0.3%

Arizona has a 58.5% chance of finishing 3-3 or worse, and LA has 84.8% chance of finishing 3-3 or better. With the most likely outcome being a Dodger finish of 4-2 and Arizona at 3-3 (10.2%). The least likely finish is both teams finishing 0-6 which would happen 3 times in 125,000 tries.

2008-09-23 13:25:33
100.   underdog
97 "Ladies and gentlemen, I've been to Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq, and I can say without hyperbole that this is a million times worse than all of them put together." (--Kent Brockman)
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-09-23 13:26:46
101.   cargill06
99 Oh, and both totals don't add up to a full 100% due to my rounding up and down.
2008-09-23 13:31:21
102.   ToyCannon
You almost have to root for the 0-6 for both teams. The carnage that would result would be priceless. Then we'd romp through the 1st round and we'd get the pleasure of hearing Casey Blake saying that the 0-6 stretch made the team closer and that is how they were able to handle the playoff pressure.
2008-09-23 13:32:24
103.   D4P
To the extent that those figures are accurate and that the records of LA and AZ the rest of the way are completely independent of one another, it looks like AZ has an 11.8% chance of gaining at least 2 games on LA the rest of the way.
2008-09-23 13:33:12
104.   ToyCannon
I hedge my bets.
2008-09-23 13:33:38
105.   Eric Stephen
I wish I would have bought a Laker 3-peat t-shirt in 1989.
2008-09-23 13:34:13
106.   Jon Weisman
2008-09-23 13:34:37
107.   ToyCannon
BHsportsguy, how do you think they would handle season ticket holders for the one game playoff on Monday?
2008-09-23 13:37:35
108.   Bluebleeder87
I wonder if there's any copyright issues if I were to order a custom made Vin Scully T.
2008-09-23 13:38:16
109.   68elcamino427
In agreement on this point. I nearly threw something at the television when this play occured. Hu took three quick tiny steps as he squared up to field the ball into his glove(right foot - left foot - right foot) and his feet were flat on the ground when the ball enetered his glove. Hu needed to come through the ball and scoop it as his momentum carried him toward first base. He would have picked the ball up more quickly and gotten more on the throw - saving precious time. This reminds me of a post that I came across in the DT archives regarding the difference in the tenths of a second gained or lost from playing the infielders "in" or "back".

The outcome of the inning would have been much different if that play had been made.

My resident baseball expert has maintained from Spring Training that Hu's hands/fingers are too small/short and this is the reason that he seems to be always double clutching the ball in the glove before he throws when he fields - making sure of his grip.

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