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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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Are You Confident? Sexy?
2008-09-30 11:00
by Jon Weisman

Dodgers Complete Maddux Trade
The Dodgers sent rookie-league pitchers Michael Watt and Eduardo Perez to San Diego as the players to be named later in the Greg Maddux deal, reports Ken Gurnick of Paul DePodesta's take here.
On a scale of 1 to 10, how confident are you that the Dodgers will win their National League Division Series against the Cubs?

1 - no chance
2 - snowball's chance
3 - small chance
4 - possible but not probable
5 - can't bring myself to believe
6 - can't bring myself not to believe
7 - more than possible
8 - very good chance
9 - feeling fat and sassy
10 - a lock

Is confidence sexy? You tell me.

Comments (248)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-09-30 11:07:45
1.   Eric Stephen
Put me down for 8.

I'm picturing Palance doing one-handed push-ups now, thanks!

2008-09-30 11:08:31
2.   underdog
Should there be a number that represents "Don't want to jinx it by predicting anything?"

Otherwise somewhere between 4-7, depending on my mood. Magic 8 ball says ask again later.

2008-09-30 11:08:50
3.   wronghanded
I'm in for 6, although it's a little closer to 5.5.
2008-09-30 11:09:16
4.   bhsportsguy
I'll go along with E, 8.
2008-09-30 11:10:32
5.   Jon Weisman
2008-09-30 11:10:59
6.   Zak
I'm not quite at 8, but feeling better than a 7. A 7.5 for me. If pushed into a corner, I guess a 7 more than 8.
2008-09-30 11:11:13
7.   Neal Pollack
7, please.
2008-09-30 11:11:26
8.   Jacob Burch

to reflect my reversed DT-Uniform Number

2008-09-30 11:11:43
9.   wronghanded
same boat as me Jon?
2008-09-30 11:12:32
10.   still bevens
Im a solid 6.5. We have legit shots facing Zambrano and Harden, both of who I think are injured. We also have great RHP against a right handed heavy lineup.
2008-09-30 11:12:46
11.   Branch Rickey
7.5 (I'm taking the Price is Right approach against 8 )
2008-09-30 11:13:07
12.   overkill94
I'll go with a 7 mostly because even with all his success this year I can't take Dempster seriously. Couple that with Zambrano and Harden not being at full health and I can see us putting a few runs on the board.
2008-09-30 11:13:39
13.   Jim Hitchcock
7. Short series, good pitching...uh oh, it could go either way!
2008-09-30 11:15:10
14.   bearlurker
2008-09-30 11:15:17
15.   D4P
I always thought it was funny/ironic that Jack said he didn't need some fancy cologne to tell him he's a man, but then turned around and acts as if the skin bracer contributes to his manliness.
2008-09-30 11:15:22
16.   TellMeTheScoreRickMonday
Yes. Very.
2008-09-30 11:15:36
17.   delias man
6 Everyone at work keeps asking me what I think about the series. I refuse to answer. I just want to watch in peace.
2008-09-30 11:17:47
18.   bhsportsguy
2 Watch this and then you will know you have got to believe or it won't come true.

2008-09-30 11:17:55
19.   Kuo-fax
6.5 - Find it hard not to believe in this team. The bullpens are gonna be the difference in this series, if we can get through the starters we'll be in good shape.
2008-09-30 11:19:01
20.   ToyCannon

Check out the incredible stat that Mike Scoscia Tragic Illness dragged up.

2008-09-30 11:19:16
21.   KG16
I'll go with 8.
2008-09-30 11:20:31
22.   unlazy4sports
I'll go with 8.. the pitching matchups puts us in position to take at least 1 in Chicago.
2008-09-30 11:21:28
23.   Bob Hendley
I'd say 7 for the Bums, and 2 (snowball) for me to catch game 1. The earliest flight I can get out of Cartagena, puts me into DF at 6:20 pm. Then, I have to hope that Candy and Sr. No, nono, no are picking up the game to even see the last part. If I do miss it, I will relive it through DT.
2008-09-30 11:23:18
24.   Jon Weisman
18 - Yes, that is the argument, isn't it.
2008-09-30 11:23:55
25.   Lexinthedena
The Cubs pitching scares me. Put me down for a high 5.
2008-09-30 11:23:59
26.   The Dude Abides
Mark me down for an 8
2008-09-30 11:24:06
27.   Daniel Zappala
2008-09-30 11:24:17
28.   BlueCrew Bruin
I think I'm at a 6 right now. My brain is telling me that the Cubs pitchers aren't at full strength and that we played the Cubs tough this year even before Manny and the post-August turnaround.

My heart, however, only seems to remember the past two Division Series' against the Cards and Mets where we didn't even look like we belonged in the playoffs. So I have hope but I just can't bring myself to believe yet.

2008-09-30 11:24:35
29.   bhsportsguy
24 But I don't think anyone needs to use their big wish for this series.
2008-09-30 11:24:48
30.   oshea2002
Tossup. Give me a 6.
2008-09-30 11:24:55
31.   BlueCrew Bruin
I guess that makes me a 5 rather than a 6.
2008-09-30 11:26:15
32.   LoneStar7
5 1/2
2008-09-30 11:26:18
33.   philmc78

The Dodgers are playing as well as anyone in the playoffs right now, so I'm guessing they'll be a tough out this time around. I'm cautiously optimistic.

2008-09-30 11:27:38
34.   Sam PHL
2008-09-30 11:28:25
35.   kinbote
7 trending toward 6.
2008-09-30 11:29:15
36.   LoneStar7
20 thats crazy by the way, but soon to change lol
2008-09-30 11:29:52
37.   D4P
How does one look up a team's all-time record vs. other teams? I'm sure you can do that on BR, but I can't figure out how...
2008-09-30 11:31:20
38.   still bevens
I just wish I could watch all the games undisturbed. Will watch most of the game at the office tomorrow, on a plane during more than half of the game on Thursday and will be at a wedding reception on Saturday night. However, I moved heaven and earth to make it to game 4, so there better be one to go to (unless the dodgers sweep).
2008-09-30 11:31:43
39.   Tripon
2008-09-30 11:31:58
40.   cargill06
4- Seems most accurate since the Cubs are unarguably the better team.
2008-09-30 11:32:08
41.   DBrim
2008-09-30 11:35:00
42.   Bleacher Seats
10 - Dodgers in 3
2008-09-30 11:35:47
43.   underdog
Yeah, the only prediction I'll make is that the 1,012-1,012 all time series tie will be broken by series' end.
2008-09-30 11:36:47
44.   old dodger fan
2008-09-30 11:36:57
45.   Brent Knapp
With apologies for ripping off the Big Aristotle, I'm feeling a 6.8736.
2008-09-30 11:38:48
46.   ToyCannon
They had the best season. I'm not sure they are the best team standing on Oct 1st with Zambrano imploding after the no - hitter and Harden's health always a question mark. Even when healthy the big Z was not that great this year. I think our pitching can shut down their offense, Soto is hurt, DeRosa is hurt. Should be a good series but I'm not ready to admit the Cubs are the best team right now until I see what they get out of Zambrano/Harden.
2008-09-30 11:39:18
47.   bhsportsguy
37 The Dodger media guide has listed in their opponents' section.

The Dodgers have won 1000 or more games against the Braves, Cubs, Giants, Pirates, Phillies and Reds. The only losing record going into this year was against the Giants.

The only original National League franchise they have not won 1000 or more games against is the Cardinals, who like the Cubs, the share a near .500 record as they approach 2000 games played against each other.

2008-09-30 11:39:57
48.   Zzyzx
A very conservative 6.
2008-09-30 11:40:24
49.   bhsportsguy
43 I do not believe post-season play is included in these records.
2008-09-30 11:42:33
50.   Jon Weisman
" The Dodgers completed the acquisition of Greg Maddux on Tuesday by sending Minor League pitchers Michael Watt and Eduardo Perez to the San Diego Padres. "
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-09-30 11:43:50
51.   ToyCannon
Ouch, I liked Watt but this is hardly the Lambo territory that Canuck was all inflamed about.
2008-09-30 11:44:20
52.   old dodger fan
40 Nothing is unarguable here. At worst, I think we are as good as they are now.
2008-09-30 11:44:32
53.   Branch Rickey
20 Of course the chances of two teams being tied over a period of 100 years is much better than a bajillionty to one. In fact, it as likely as any other record that is around 50/50 and more likely than any number that is strongly one way or the other. In fact, it could be argued that by a very slight margin it is the most likely outcome. Predicting future unlikely events is much more meaningful than finding things that have already happened, drawing a circle around them and calling them unlikely.
Carry on.
2008-09-30 11:45:30
54.   fanerman
7. This is the best Dodger team in the playoffs I've seen since I became old enough to understand baseball and the Dodgers.
2008-09-30 11:45:38
55.   Daniel Zappala
I still think it was a mistake to trade anything for Maddux.
2008-09-30 11:46:04
56.   kinbote
If I may briefly comment on the children's music discussion that was taking place way back when . . .

During my son's first year [i.e. before he could move around on his own], I used to spend a lot of time bouncing him in my arms. For such occasions, the key was that I like the music--that it calm ME down. He inevitably ended up liking it too. We had two general categories of music:

1. Mellow/Melodic--We played the heck out of The Jayhawks' "Rainy Day Music" and Aimee Mann's "The Forgotten Arm." We also listened to some Grateful Dead and Beatles.

2. Bouncy/Funky--My son loved listening to Beck, The Gorillaz, and Cornershop. They key is it had to have a bounce to it.

This idea that kids have to listen to kid's music is absurd. There are some excellent children's musicians out there (#1 is Dan Zanes; Laurie Berkner and TMBG are good too), but the corny stuff I can't stomach.

2008-09-30 11:46:39
57.   Gagne55
49 But it does. For any set A unioned with the empty set is equal to itself.
2008-09-30 11:46:51
58.   Bob Timmermann
2008-09-30 11:46:56
59.   ToyCannon
He ended his Dodger affiliation in grand style with a 37/5 K/BB in his last 6 starts. Only 19 he will take a few years before he see's Petco.
2008-09-30 11:47:34
60.   Tripon
Can we get some info on Matt and Perez.
2008-09-30 11:47:43
61.   kinbote
50 Watt is a tough loss. Nate will not be happy.
2008-09-30 11:47:45
62.   Marty
2008-09-30 11:48:07
63.   Bob Hendley
Jeez, we have a losing record with the Geeants?! Guess those games were meaningful after all. Dang, I don't like this state of affairs.
2008-09-30 11:48:07
64.   underdog
55 I basically agree but don't feel too broken up about losing those two guys. Watt might turn out decent enough... If Maddux gives Kershaw and Lowe enough playoff pointers and the Dodgers win some playoff games I'll officially approve the trade. ;-)
2008-09-30 11:48:41
65.   mwhite06
I'm at a 7. While I do respect Dempster, I think the Dodgers can steal game 2 in Chicago, and get it done here at home.
2008-09-30 11:49:01
66.   ToyCannon
I don't, while his production may not have been stellar I do believe his presence on the team was a benefit. I can't quantify this, just an opinion.
2008-09-30 11:49:27
67.   D4P
Of course the chances of two teams being tied over a period of 100 years is much better than a bajillionty to one. In fact, it as likely as any other record that is around 50/50 and more likely than any number that is strongly one way or the other. In fact, it could be argued that by a very slight margin it is the most likely outcome

Exactly. On average, every team's record against another will be .500 (assuming no expansion/contraction). We should be more surprised when head-to-head records move away from .500 than when they move toward.

2008-09-30 11:49:44
68.   kinbote
60 Watt is a high-upside lefty starter who was a prime candidate to breakout next year.
2008-09-30 11:50:05
69.   underdog
Actually, yeah, Watt was still too much to give up for Maddux. But, whatever, he's 2-3 years away and I don't think will pan out to more than a decent reliever. report on him at beginning of year:

2008-09-30 11:50:49
70.   underdog
68 Next year? Oh, meaning in the minors? Possible. Hrm.

Maddux better win a playoff game.

2008-09-30 11:51:28
71.   underdog
Cubs fans (on BCB) are seriously worrying aloud about who the umpire staff will be for the NLDS. Man, I thought we were neurotic.
2008-09-30 11:51:45
72.   LogikReader
3.5 :)
2008-09-30 11:52:56
73.   Bob Timmermann
So there was a guy with a Korean surname who won Comeback Player of the Year, but it wasn't Chan Ho Park.
2008-09-30 11:53:30
74.   trainwreck
Mine goes to 11.
2008-09-30 11:54:28
75.   underdog
73 Heh. Funny, Cliff Lee doesn't look all that Korean to me, either.

Lee and Lidge were deserving winners...

2008-09-30 11:55:29
76.   Eric Stephen
I hope for Angel Hernandez (UUWU), Tim Tschida (the 'stache), and Jim Joyce (super loud and annoying strike calls) to be on the crew myself. I'll even throw a bone to Cowboy Joe West, just so I can have an easy scapegoat to blame if the Dodgers lose a game or two. :)
2008-09-30 11:57:54
77.   Bob Timmermann
Ryan Ludwick was third in the voting for NL Comeback Player of the Year.

Although I'm unsure what he came back from. He played in 120 games last year with an OPS+ of 110.

2008-09-30 11:58:41
78.   underdog
76 - West and Hernandez are two of the guys they're most worried about. Which makes me want them, but also not - if there's some bad call we can hear how the Cubs lost because of it, for decades afterward.
2008-09-30 11:58:52
79.   Tripon
I assume Watt was the 'upgraded' prospect the Padres were able to pick when the Dodgers made the playoffs.
2008-09-30 11:59:11
80.   Harold M Johnson

I think we have a great team, and anything can happen in a 5 game series. But on paper, the Cubs are a better team top to bottom.

Plus, after being over-confidant against the Celtics, I've learned my lesson in a huge way.

2008-09-30 12:02:33
81.   trainwreck
A few years ago when Tom Cable left UCLA to go to the NFL, I was not expecting him to end up as head coach of the Raiders.
2008-09-30 12:02:45
82.   Jon Weisman
DePo's take:

2008-09-30 12:03:27
83.   Daniel Zappala
When expecting records to be 50/50 over 100-year periods, exceptions have to be made for when the playing field was not level -- i.e. in the early part of the past century, some teams were essentially minor-league clubs for other clubs.
2008-09-30 12:04:15
84.   Eric Stephen
if there's some bad call we can hear how the Cubs lost because of it, for decades afterward.

I'm sure the Marlins don't mind any Bartman talk; that trophy is still theirs!

2008-09-30 12:04:22
85.   Johnny Nucleo
I was an optimist during the regular season, but I'll have to go with a 4 for the playoffs.
2008-09-30 12:05:33
86.   Tripon
Would you be happier if Adkins was given up instead of Watt?
2008-09-30 12:05:36
87.   Bob Timmermann
I talked to the Marlins fan.

He's still happy.

2008-09-30 12:07:31
88.   regfairfield
The last time we gave up a pitcher of Watt's caliber we got rid of Odalis Perez. This is a downgrade.
2008-09-30 12:10:19
89.   Eric Stephen
The pressing questions I have are these:

1) Will Esteban Loaiza get voted at least a partial playoff share?

2) Will Manny get voted a playoff share from the Red Sox?

2008-09-30 12:11:04
90.   Eric Stephen
You've been sitting on that joke for a while, haven't you? ;)
2008-09-30 12:12:09
91.   Bumsrap
8 for Dodgers

8 for Cubs

2008-09-30 12:12:57
92.   cargill06
Buster Olney was on ESPN this morning saying Harden's fastball was mostly in the 85 MPH range his last start.
2008-09-30 12:13:02
93.   Bumsrap
90 - Sounds uncomfortable
2008-09-30 12:13:40
94.   njr
5.5 with a healthy dose of irrational child-like optimism. Really I'm just hoping for a good series, and at least 2 playoff games at Dodgers stadium.
2008-09-30 12:14:56
95.   trainwreck
Hmmm, Rich Harden hurting?

Now that is the Rich I know. I knew he would come through!!!

2008-09-30 12:16:00
96.   Physics DR
My heart says 8

My brain says 2

2008-09-30 12:16:10
97.   BlueMamma
I'm sitting at a solid 6. I'm trying to be practical here, but I can't help being hopeful.
2008-09-30 12:16:22
98.   NoHoDodger
Can't decide whether its 5 or 6.

I want to believe, but then again my heart has been broken so many times by that Vixen called the Dodgers.

2008-09-30 12:16:34
99.   underdog
92 - I'd heard that, too, but good to get a confirmation. It's really hard to know what we'll get with the Cubs' pitching staff. Zambrano when he's on is great, but when he's off... Harden when he's healthy is great, but when he's not...

The Cubs staff = Girl With the Curls

2008-09-30 12:19:18
100.   Archivist
Put me down at 4.5

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but Manny's career numbers against probable Cubs starters look like this:

Harden - 15 PAs, 3 hits (ALL HOMERUNS), 5 RBIs, 4 BBs (one IBB), 4 Ks, .273/.429/1.091/1.520

Lilly - 50 PAs, 11 hits, 3 2Bs, 4 HRs, 4 BBs, 11 Ks, .244/.320/.578/.898

Dempster - 1 for 1 w/ a 2B and an RBI

Zambrano - 0 for 3 with 2 Ks.

Totals against Dempster, Zambrano, Harden, and Lilly:

67 PAs, 15 Hits, 4 2Bs, 7 HRs, 7 BBs, 16 Ks, .260/.328/.666/.994

He's never faced Wood or Marmol.

Sample size is limited of course. Numbers courtesy of

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-09-30 12:25:24
101.   Bob Hendley
100 - Like to see what he would do over 100 years before I try to draw any conclusions.
2008-09-30 12:25:56
102.   22 Gallons
Confidence Level - 8

I'm feeling it this year. And, as if the Cubbies needed another curse, they are on the cover of SI.

Dodgers in 4 games

2008-09-30 12:26:18
103.   briano
2008-09-30 12:27:37
104.   Kevin Lewis

And Bob, what time should I tune in for your webcam coverage?

2008-09-30 12:30:08
105.   Linkmeister
5 leaning 6, with trepidation.
2008-09-30 12:31:07
106.   Ken Noe
7.5. Sorry to see Watt go but I guess it could've been worse.
2008-09-30 12:33:14
107.   D4P
it could've been worse

Ned's epitaph

2008-09-30 12:34:48
108.   Tripon

Tim Brown writes a Manny and the Dodgers story.

2008-09-30 12:36:13
109.   regfairfield
I'm at 4 by the way, but only because 5 seems more negative than 4.
2008-09-30 12:38:42
110.   MC Safety
I'm going with 9. No one is stopping Manny and Torre.
2008-09-30 12:38:53
111.   underdog
108 Seems like he writes one of those per week.
2008-09-30 12:39:47
112.   D4P
No one is stopping Manny and Torre

The Manator...?

2008-09-30 12:40:26
113.   trainwreck
Ryan Dempster also thinks Soto should be in the MVP discussion.
2008-09-30 12:41:46
114.   Tripon
111 But Tim Brown writes it fairly well. Gotta wonder why the L.A. Times let Tim Brown walk and instead kept guys like Plasckhe and Simers on who must be more expensive to keep. What the Times need is their own version of moneyball.
2008-09-30 12:42:31
115.   old dodger fan
113 Ryan is being a good teammate.
2008-09-30 12:43:13
116.   trainwreck
Or he's just as brilliant as Peter Gammons.
2008-09-30 12:43:39
117.   Lexinthedena
108 Is Chad Billingsly unproven?
2008-09-30 12:45:42
118.   underdog
114 Indeed, there's a whole long list of former Times' reporters who are superior to what they have there now. I also enjoy reading Scott Ostler in the SF Chron every day. I guess they can't be blamed for Jim Murray no longer writing there, though.
2008-09-30 12:46:38
119.   DodgerPhan
10 - These are the Chicago Cubs. Our 20 years of futility have nothing on them.
2008-09-30 12:46:39
120.   Disabled List
I'm somewhere between a 3 and a 4.

I've been hugely scarred by 1995, 1996, 2004 and 2006. And I think this Cubs team is far better than any of the teams that went 12-1 against the Dodgers those years in the playoffs.

And yet, hope is a good thing...

2008-09-30 12:48:15
121.   regfairfield
If you can remember your preseason predictions see how well stacked up against the Sports Media this year:

I tied Keith Law for first. Go me.

2008-09-30 12:48:46
122.   Dexter Fishmore
Call me a 4.
2008-09-30 12:48:51
123.   trainwreck
I can't read a newspaper that employs Ray Ratto.
2008-09-30 12:54:01
124.   silverwidow
I'm feeling Bullish about this series, so 7 leaning up.

Giving up Watt wasn't "bright."

2008-09-30 12:54:03
125.   MC Safety
112 Yep.
2008-09-30 12:54:04
126.   underdog
120 And yet, hope is a good thing...

And the thing with feathers!

(Who knew Emily Dickinson was a baseball fan.)

2008-09-30 12:55:46
127.   MonkeyBlue
10. I have high hope, so they better not lose.
2008-09-30 12:56:18
128.   Jim Hitchcock
118 Always missed Scott Ostler.
2008-09-30 12:56:24
129.   old dodger fan
Dodgers website says Lowe pitching Wednesday but TBA for Thursday and Saturday. I thought Chad and Hiroki were set.
2008-09-30 12:58:56
130.   trainwreck
They are.
2008-09-30 12:59:24
131.   Bob Timmermann
I love this paragraph from King Kaufman:

"That wasn't whimsy. That was because anything involving the Red Sox or the Cubs gets massive hits and ratings. Anything involving both is off the charts. ESPN would duct tape Brett Favre to Derek Jeter and throw them both into the mouth of a live volcano if it meant they could have the Cubs and Red Sox in the World Series."

2008-09-30 13:02:07
132.   KG16
120 - when the Dodgers make the playoffs, I'm always optimistic about their chances. Maybe it's because 1988 was the first year that I really followed baseball, so the Dodgers playing in October brings out the 10 year old in me.
2008-09-30 13:03:46
133.   Bronxer
131 It really should be Fox instead of ESPN because Fox has the World Series ... but ESPN could also run endless talking heads/highlights/specials if it were Sox and Cubs ...
2008-09-30 13:05:32
134.   underdog
Live Dodgers chat with the K Brothers at the Times Blue Notes blog, 2:30 today if anyone's interested:

2008-09-30 13:06:12
135.   underdog
133 And I'm sure Fox and ESPN will both cry if it's Brewers-Rays in the WS. I would laugh.
2008-09-30 13:06:30
136.   KG16
For many years, my greatest "concern" in sports was that the Red Sox would play the Cubs in the World Series - curse against curse. I don't think it will be as bad as it could have been, what with the Red Sox winning a couple of titles recently.
2008-09-30 13:07:13
137.   Bob Timmermann
Kaufman's paragraph was actually in reference to how in 2003, ESPN hosted a "virtual World Series" between the Red Sox and Cubs while the Marlins and Yankees played a real one.
2008-09-30 13:07:54
138.   KG16
135 - I will laugh more when it's Dodgers-Angels and they are amazed that the stadiums are full before the game starts and all the way to the end.
2008-09-30 13:08:07
139.   Tripon
136 It'd be bad if the Cubs lose to the Red Sox and the Red Sox wins a 3rd title in 5 years. You might see the first civil war in America in the past 150 years.
2008-09-30 13:11:06
140.   Ken Noe
107 I assumed he'd cough up someone even better.
2008-09-30 13:11:36
141.   Bronxer
137 Thanks for the the correction. If not the Dodgers, make it Brewers-Rays, just so we can see how low a ratings the Series would get.
However, I can see a Dodgers-Angels series ... if the Angels can 'reverse-the-curse' against Boston. I believe the Angels can beat the Rays in a 7 game series.
2008-09-30 13:13:09
142.   natepurcell
Giving up Watt disappoints me to a great extreme.
2008-09-30 13:14:23
143.   Tripon
Watt is either a LOOGY or the greatest thing since sliced bread.
2008-09-30 13:14:27
144.   blue22
So Edwin Jackson was bumped from the playoff rotation (by Sonnastine) and the roster entirely (by Price, presumably). That's kind of surprising.
2008-09-30 13:17:22
145.   blue22
And oh yeah, I'm a solid 7.
2008-09-30 13:17:52
146.   cargill06
144 Edwin Jackson shouldn't pitch 1 meaningful post-season inning.
2008-09-30 13:18:28
147.   larry slimfast
5.5 - Does that make me agnostic?
2008-09-30 13:18:51
148.   regfairfield
I think it goes into the slow bleeding of talent, whoops we're starting Angel Berroa thing Ned is so good at.
2008-09-30 13:19:22
149.   Bob Timmermann
There was a civil war in 1858?

I guess I didn't merit a 5 on the AP US History test.

2008-09-30 13:22:21
150.   underdog
149 He was just half a score off.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-09-30 13:22:31
151.   natepurcell
Watt is either a LOOGY or the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Watt has a decent amount of potential. He's not very big though and probably won't gain too much on his stuff, but he knows how to pitch and bearing injury, should move up steadily.

2008-09-30 13:22:37
152.   Tripon
149 Bloody Kansas ended in 1858.

Well, that and I was off by 3 years of the official American Civil War.

2008-09-30 13:24:57
153.   cargill06
Keith Law thinks that Torre will start Kent, I was gone for the weekend. Is there anything that changed over the weekend? I thought it was understood Kent would only be a pinch hitter. Also, what are the odds of Furcal starting tomorrow? How'd he look the past 3 games?
2008-09-30 13:26:43
154.   Humma Kavula
I'm a 4. The Cubs are better than the Dodgers, but not as much as their records would indicate, and in a short series, anything can happen.

Still, the most likely thing that will happen is that the Cubs will beat our guys.

2008-09-30 13:26:54
155.   Disabled List
I can think of a few things worse than a Cubs-Red Sox World Series.

Not many things, but a few.

2008-09-30 13:27:30
156.   Tripon
153 Kent might start at first base against Lefties. No way Kent plays 2nd base.

Furcal looked good, and if he's on the roster, I expect Berroa to be a late innings defensive replacement.

2008-09-30 13:27:31
157.   ToyCannon
If Martin had the year Soto had, I'd have no problem saying he should be in the MVP conversation. He's a catcher and arguably the best player on his team which was the best team in the NL. It certainly isn't laughable. No question Pujols is the best player but that is the Hank Aaron award.
2008-09-30 13:27:53
158.   Bob Timmermann
If you're going to bring in US History allusions, you better be prepared for the like of Greg Brock or I to come after you.

We have little or no tolerance for error. We get angrier when people mess up US history than the average Dodger Thoughts commenter gets when Mark Sweeney steps into the on deck circle.

2008-09-30 13:28:41
159.   LAT
2008-09-30 13:29:14
160.   Andrew Shimmin
I reserve the right to swing from ten to one and back at my own discretion, never in any doubt, and claiming after the thing is done that I was 100% right about the outcome all along. Maybe even before all along.
2008-09-30 13:29:58
161.   Tripon
157 McCann had a better year offensively than Soto had though. Is Soto's defense that much better over McCann?
2008-09-30 13:30:10
162.   bigcpa
Put me down for a 7.5. I smell a split at Wrigley and a split in L.A. Billingsley vs. a wounded Zambrano in Game 5. In terms of stuff and health, I think Billingsley is the most likely candidate to throw 7 scoreless for either team. And if this Cubs lineup has a tragic flaw it's too many RH bats. F-Dome was supposed to help fix that before he got benched. Billingsley/Saito/Broxton should be able to hold these guys to <3 in games 2 and 5.
2008-09-30 13:30:34
163.   Ken Noe
I miss a Civil War discussion because I'm grading Civil War tests. Priceless.
2008-09-30 13:31:11
164.   underdog
158 Bob has an embiggened sense of his knowledge of history.
2008-09-30 13:32:52
165.   regfairfield
VORPiest hitters on NL playoff teams

1. Utley
2. Manny
3. Aramis
4. Braun
5. Rollins
6. Fielder
7. Ethier
8. Soto

Soto had a great year, but there's no case that he's MVP.

2008-09-30 13:33:15
166.   Physics DR

I would bet a nickel that Kent starts. and does well.

Of course, I have a big bet to pay off as the Dodgers DID NOT finish 15 games ahead of that San Francisco team.

2008-09-30 13:33:42
167.   Bob Hendley
158 - On deck?! I get angry when I see M. Sweeney in the hole.
2008-09-30 13:34:57
168.   Marty
I think Bleeding Kansas is the preferred term. I seem to remember being chastised for saying Bloody Kansas before.
2008-09-30 13:36:23
169.   ToyCannon
Didn't realize that VORP ended the discussion. Where does Gibby hold up in the 88 VORP discussion?
2008-09-30 13:37:49
170.   Daniel Zappala
158 But do you get as angry as I do when I have to sit through another movie with the standard "AI run amok" plot?
2008-09-30 13:38:43
171.   ToyCannon
Ask McCann, I think he is sitting on a beach somewhere.
2008-09-30 13:40:11
172.   regfairfield
169 He lead all NL hitters on playoff teams (which is really surprising). He was fifth overall, five runs behind Will Clark.

Probably came off a bit to harsh there. It's not the end of the discussion, but even if you're eliminating pitchers, and people who aren't on playoff teams, Soto just didn't have the numbers this year.

2008-09-30 13:40:59
173.   Fan since 59
I'm at 7, but then I'm an eternal optimist.
2008-09-30 13:42:03
174.   Disabled List
172 That is very surprising. Didn't Strawberry have a huge year in 1988?
2008-09-30 13:42:13
175.   cargill06
5th, and the highest of any Met or Dodger player.

2008-09-30 13:42:15
176.   oshea2002
just got my tix for Thurs. If anyone else is going and wants to meet up at Wrigley - email me at
2008-09-30 13:43:33
177.   regfairfield
174 Dodger Stadium was a huge pitchers park that year, and Strawberry had a pretty bad stolen base percentage which gave him the slight edge. Strawberry was right behind Gibson on the list though.
2008-09-30 13:44:39
178.   GMac In The 909
Put me down for threve.
2008-09-30 13:45:27
179.   Andrew Shimmin
Gibson was the VORPiest offensive player from a playoff team in the NL, in 1988. Fifth VORPiest overall.

2008-09-30 13:45:46
180.   Andrew Shimmin
2008-09-30 13:50:29
181.   gibsonhobbs88
I probably fall in the 4 to 7 range right now prior to Game 1. If the Dodgers gain a split in Wrigley, then my feelings will shift closer to 7, lose both then it's <3.
If we win the first two, then of course it's a 9 or 10.

166 - I wouldn't mind Kent starting in a game that Lowe isn't pitching when his lack of range may come into play. Game #1 - we may need DeWitt's defense at 2nd over Kent's offense. Our other SP aren't quite as ground ball fielder dependent as Lowe is.
Ideal lineup for Game #1 only:

SS Furcal (If Healthy enough to produce)
CF Kemp*
LF Manny
RF Ethier**
1B Loney
3B Blake
C Martin
2B DeWitt
P Lowe

*I thought maybe putting Kemp in front of Manny might give him some chances to get some balls to hit and do some damage.
**Ethier has proven to be a tough out at the plate getting long at bats, fouling pitches off and has hit into fewer double plays than Loney so I thought he would be better right behind Manny if they are going to walk him or pitch around him alot.

2008-09-30 13:54:25
182.   Bob Timmermann
What was the most panicky?

1. The Panic of 1837
2. The Panic of 1873
3. The DT commenters the day the Giants beat the Dodgers 1-0 in extra innings a couple weeks ago.

2008-09-30 13:58:17
183.   Bob Hendley
156 - Berroa as a defensive replacement? I am guessing that he is actually insurance in case Rafi breaks down.
2008-09-30 13:58:52
184.   Ken Noe
One of my students just named 1858 as the year Lincoln was elected. I may know Tripon's real identity ;-)

182 1 and 2 dragged on for years. 3 was over in a week or so.

2008-09-30 14:01:54
185.   bhsportsguy
All-Time Dodger W-L Records Against Original NL Franchises

Braves - 1151-1002
Cubs - 1012-1012
Cardinals - 992-989
Giants - 1129-1153
Phillies - 1133-888
Pirates - 1085-950
Reds - 1090-1073

2008-09-30 14:01:59
186.   Bob Hendley
I have "I Love LA's" proxy and he votes for 3.
2008-09-30 14:03:36
187.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, I think 3 was over in two days after the DBacks lost to the Cardinals and the Dodgers routed the Padres.
2008-09-30 14:03:39
188.   skybluestoday
Civil War knowledgable? OK.

Who here has ever been to the Griswoldville battelfield (just outside of Macon, GA)?

Anyone, anyone?


2008-09-30 14:04:42
189.   LOB
I'm going with 6.

Describes my feelings perfectly.

2008-09-30 14:04:57
190.   Fan since 59
182 184 Yes, but 3 is still the right answer.
2008-09-30 14:06:37
191.   Tripon
Brian Cashman signed a 3 year extension.

2008-09-30 14:06:46
192.   Disabled List
185 We should have that 24-game deficit on the Giants made up in a year or two.
2008-09-30 14:07:23
193.   trainwreck
Brian Cashman got a short extension through 2011, so I guess he will not be leaving the Yankees.
2008-09-30 14:09:03
194.   KG16
182 - probably #3, but yesterday's, um, market fluctuations were, um, something...
2008-09-30 14:10:43
195.   Bob Hendley
Looks like there might be a seat on a 6am flight out of Cartagena, so my chances of viewing the game have risen to 6. Well, actually on getting back to DF and crossing my fingers that Candy and Sr No, nono, no are covering the game.
2008-09-30 14:14:21
196.   Tripon
183 I'm not saying Berroa should be, but that would be Berroa's role if Furcal starts. Odd, I know, but 2nd option is likely Ozuna or Nomar who are worse defensively over Berroa. Its an odd thing but eh.
2008-09-30 14:15:46
197.   Eric Stephen
The Dodgers were 9-9 against SF this year.
2008-09-30 14:16:51
198.   dzzrtRatt
I was going to say '4' but the comments have pushed me all the way to '8.'

Looking at today, not the entire season but today, I think we bring a stronger 25-man roster to the arena than the Cubs. The Cubs and Angels should win the Mike Hargrove Awards for best teams in each league, based on winning the most regular season games. But I'm not sure they're as strong in pitching right now as they were most of the season, whereas I'm really comfortable with Lowe-Billingsley-Kuroda with Maddux and Kershaw backing them up.

2008-09-30 14:20:57
199.   Jon Weisman
182 - It's hard to imagine that the same comments section produced that group and today's group.
2008-09-30 14:22:11
200.   underdog
Rumors on CC:

>>Several rival executives say the Dodgers are worried enough about that potential that they might not re-sign {Manny}, but will appease angry fans by making a substantial push for Sabathia. All things being equal, Sabathia wants to return home to California and stay in the NL where he can hit. The Mets cannot offer the Pacific Ocean. But they can give him a bat, and reams of cash.<<

Just rumors, I repeat, just rumors.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-09-30 14:22:24
201.   trainwreck
The NFL Network is waiting to show the Raiders press conference, so they are just having a host talk while he is in the control room.

While the control room people were waiting for the press conference to start they were watching highlights of Manny Ramirez.

2008-09-30 14:25:07
202.   Dane Bramage
Now that I see an official playoff roster over at Inside the Dodgers WITH NO SWEENEY ON IT, I can officially put in for a solid 7, oh, and breathe a sigh of relief as well.
2008-09-30 14:26:35
203.   trainwreck
Furcal and Dewitt starting!
2008-09-30 14:26:52
204.   Dark Horse
200-God knows, I'd love to sign Sabathia, but if that's where the money goes it still begs the question of who's going to hit the baseball the other four days.
2008-09-30 14:26:57
205.   Howard Fox
put me in for 9...thought about 10, but 9

I see the Dodgers hosting the Brewers in the NLCS too...

2008-09-30 14:27:07
206.   Bob Hendley
196 - I could see Berroa coming in if the Bums were far ahead or far behind (bite my tongue) to rest Rafi, or even in a double switch, but defensive replacement? Don't let regfairfield catch you saying that. ; )
2008-09-30 14:27:33
207.   NoHoDodger

I feel like our founding fathers in 1859 when the British invaded us in the war of 1812.

2008-09-30 14:27:40
208.   trainwreck
2008-09-30 14:27:40
209.   Eric Stephen
Kerry Wood is the first Cubs player since Stan Hack in 1945 to play on four playoff teams.

The last Dodgers to play on four playoff teams are Mike Scioscia, Steve Sax, Mike Marshall, Pedro Guerrero (traded mid-season), Fernando Valenzuela, Alejandro Peña, all members of the 81-83-85-88 teams. Don Sutton was a member of the 66-74-77-78-88 teams so he counts too.

2008-09-30 14:28:22
210.   trainwreck
Why do we need to keep Ozuna around? How can anyone not realize he can't play defense or hit?
2008-09-30 14:30:47
211.   Eric Stephen
No Pee Wee either. Per Josh at ItD:


2008-09-30 14:31:20
212.   Bob Timmermann
If there weren't an Ozuna around to hate, then who would people hate?

Berroa? Troncoso? Maddux?

2008-09-30 14:31:56
213.   Eric Stephen
Troncoso made it over Proctor.
2008-09-30 14:32:00
214.   bryanf
Is it too late to vote?

I say:

7 - more than possible

2008-09-30 14:32:07
215.   JoeyP
I'd say a 4 also.
I think the Cubs were the best draw for the Dodgers. I just think the Phillies offense would have bashed them & CC would have given the Brewers at least 2 wins right out of the gate.

Cubs also did the Dodgers a favor by pitching Dempster the 1st game.

Its possible, but not probable. Dodgers arent a very good road team, the Cubs are a great home team, & their are 3 in Chicago & 2 in LA.

2008-09-30 14:32:16
216.   Howard Fox
I can see Berroa, in case Furcal comes up lame

but Ozuna? he's our 4th OF?

2008-09-30 14:32:49
217.   Bob Hendley
210 - Manny having Pablo on the bench to tease, when he is not out on the field catching balls and hitting .400 must have been a factor.
2008-09-30 14:32:59
218.   Eric Stephen
There will be no need to hate anyone since Blake DeWitt will go all Billy Hatcher on the postseason.
2008-09-30 14:33:00
219.   trainwreck
I don't hate Ozuna; I am just befuddled by why we keep him around.
2008-09-30 14:33:27
220.   Bob Timmermann
Ozuna is the 5th outfielder. Pierre is the 4th outfielder.
2008-09-30 14:33:29
221.   Eric Stephen
JP is OF#4
2008-09-30 14:33:45
222.   Jim Hitchcock
188 Have not been there, or Wally World, either, for that matter.
2008-09-30 14:36:32
223.   ToyCannon
In a 5 game series it is highly probable that we will never use Osuna but if we do use him, it will be because he represents the tying or winning run when he's put in. Once he scores the winning run then he can play defense for whoever he replaced. I like having speed as the 25th player.
2008-09-30 14:37:17
224.   Howard Fox
oh, I overlooked Pierre
2008-09-30 14:37:26
225.   Eric Stephen
It should be noted -- as Josh Rawitch pointed out -- the rosters aren't due until tomorrow morning so they are of course subject to change. You know, in case anyone gets in a bar fight tonight.
2008-09-30 14:37:35
226.   JoeyP
Ouch, the 2007 Dodgers 2nd round pick for 1 month of a crappy Greg Maddux?

If I was Michael Watt, I'd feel insulted I was dealt for that.

2008-09-30 14:38:06
227.   fiddlestick
What's the over/under on the number of Cubs fans sitting in the section by the bullpen who, when Beimel warms up the first time, drizzle ketchup packets all over their hands and dangle them over the wall?
2008-09-30 14:38:19
228.   Howard Fox
223 then why not Young and let Pierre be the 25th man
2008-09-30 14:38:19
229.   ToyCannon
I'm shocked at Troncoso over Proctor given how well Proctor has been pitching.
2008-09-30 14:38:30
230.   tjdub
6 for me. I'm optimistic, but history has beaten me down from a higher number.
2008-09-30 14:38:45
231.   trainwreck
This Al press conference is insane.

He is making everything public. Saying Kiffin did not want Russell and all this.

2008-09-30 14:38:54
232.   underdog
Sigh. I guess no Sweeney is something to be pleased about.

I feel for DY, I really do.

Well, hopefully the Dodgers will beat the Cubs, and Ozuna's key error in game 3 won't hurt them but will keep him off the NLCS roster. ;-) As I said earlier, other than that spot, I'm pretty happy with how the roster shapes up. Also, I'm sure if Furcal had come back ages ago and proven healthy, and if Kent were proven healthy, Ozuna would've been less likely.

Troncoso surprises me, too. Probably doesn't matter much, he vs. Proctor, but really surprised by that.

Overall though, that's a roster that can compete.

2008-09-30 14:40:40
233.   ToyCannon
Greg Maddux had a WHIP of 1.156 as a Dodger.
2008-09-30 14:40:56
234.   Eric Stephen
If I was Michael Watt, I'd feel insulted I was dealt for that

I'm sure Watt is happy for 3 reasons:

1) He can tell his grandkids he was dealt for one of the greatest pitchers ever
2) He will get more of an opportunity to contribute earlier in SD than LA
3) If he does in fact feel "insulted" by the trade, he'll be happy to be out of the organization that was so dumb in the first place (if that's what he believes).

2008-09-30 14:41:41
235.   trainwreck
Ahhhhh!! Monte Kiffin wanted to be our DC! Ahhh!
2008-09-30 14:41:59
236.   overkill94
226 I would be stoked. You could tell your kids you were traded for a hall-of-famer!
2008-09-30 14:42:38
237.   Howard Fox
if Furcal had been healthy and Kent not injured, I'm not so sure we get Manny

we are more dangerous with him than without, and if Furcal is anything close to where he was at the beginning of the season, I don't think anyone can beat us

2008-09-30 14:44:12
238.   Bob Timmermann
I doubt that any new minor leaguer would feel offended to be traded for a pitcher with over 350 wins.

But if it makes you feel happy to think that someone else is miserable, knock yourself out.

2008-09-30 14:44:25
239.   Jon Weisman
2008-09-30 14:44:27
240.   Dane Bramage

Per Tony Jackson:

Scott Proctor lost out to Ramon Troncoso because Joe Torre needed a guy who would warm up, not come in, warm up again and then come in if necessary. Proctor, because of health issues he has had this year, isn't able to do that right now.

2008-09-30 14:44:38
241.   Bob Hendley
223 - Counting chickens. With Pee Wee on the roster we have a better chance of getting someone on base: .393 OBP as PH.
2008-09-30 14:45:26
242.   Eric Stephen
I can't wait to watch highlights of the press conference later. I'd love to hear Al's rationale for not paying Kiffin.
2008-09-30 14:45:56
243.   ToyCannon
Pee Wee had an OPS of .630 in the 2nd half. When everyone complains about Sweeney not hitting it is not like Pee Wee set the world on fire. The only thing he can do is pinch hit. He can't run, and he can't field, and he can only play the outfield. He needs to play alot to hit and I could easily see the case for Osuna over Pee Wee as a bench player. I'd rather have Willy Aybar or Wilson Betemit but with the choice between Osuna/Young I don't see the big deal.
2008-09-30 14:46:09
244.   JoeyP
Troncoso over Proctor
Ozuna over Pee Wee

Other than that not much surprising.

2008-09-30 14:49:49
245.   ToyCannon
You are right if we use Osuna as a pinch hitter. I don't think it will happen and this team might need a pinch runner(Kent) more then a pinch hitter. Having Kent on the bench changes the dynamic of the team.
2008-09-30 14:53:37
246.   Jim Hitchcock
225 A bar fight in Chicago? That has not happened before.
2008-09-30 15:09:29
247.   MJW101
It was Maddux over Proctor. Troncoso deserves to be on the roster in his own right.
2008-09-30 15:21:26
248.   scareduck
Speaking as someone who has been pessimistic about this team all year, I'm a six on the Dodgers Kinsey scale. The team has a decent shot at it, albeit not a great one, but nonzero.

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