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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

We're Getting Closer
2008-10-08 11:59
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Inside the Dodgers has the Dodger starting lineups for Games 1 and 2 of the upcoming National League Championship Series. And Jay Jaffe has an exhaustive (and free) series preview at Baseball Prospectus.

Comments (212)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-10-08 12:11:53
1.   Frip
It just didn't make sense to me Jon. Other than you're being too touchy about the Dodgers getting help from...and to much press credit going to, "non" Dodgers, such as Manny, Torre, or Mattingly.
2008-10-08 12:12:59
2.   Bumsrap
Great lineup. Martin for now looks like he is the best protector for Manny and I would keep him hitting after Manny for at least the next couple of days. I love Manny hitting third and at the same time, I like the idea of Ethier, when he is hot, hitting third followed by Manny and Loney. This sounds like I am confused, but really, I think it means that the Dodgers have hitters that can move around the lineup adding flexibility, a sign that the Dodgers are coming of age.
2008-10-08 12:13:23
3.   Tripon
Can't say I agree with Loney starting. Go prove me wrong James.

Lefties are batting 100 points OPS higher than righties against Hamels. Its also why Ethier is batting 2nd.

2008-10-08 12:15:12
4.   Bumsrap
Let it go Frip. Time to move on and just enjoy the moment. Go Dodgers.
2008-10-08 12:17:06
5.   underdog
Whatever the line-up, I'm certainly worried about Hamels. He's the biggest thing the Dodgers need to get past to win this series. If they can win one of his starts, they'll win the series I think. They just need to show patience, foul off some pitches, work the pitch count up. And hope Lowe is on again, too.
2008-10-08 12:17:09
6.   Disabled List
1 I believe Jon's comment was directed at the idea that working the count and being patient with at-bats is a "new" or "innovative" approach. To the contrary, we've all been preaching that for years.
2008-10-08 12:17:29
7.   unassisted
Just a heads up, that BP series preview seems to be for subscribers and non-suscribers alike, as i'm not a subscriber and was able to read the whole thing
2008-10-08 12:17:55
8.   Jon Weisman
1 - I'm thrilled about the execution. I'm less than thrilled by stories that suggest that it's a new idea. I certainly don't think my comment was overboard, and I think that I'm being lectured about being touchy or pissy by the wrong person.
2008-10-08 12:18:34
9.   Disabled List
It is interesting that DeWitt is starting instead of Kent. Torre seems to want to keep the IF defense behind Lowe as solid as possible.
2008-10-08 12:18:41
10.   underdog
For the record, I think Mattingly has clearly done some good work with the Dodgers players, with their young hitters. I think they deserve some of the credit for listening and responding too. I think we all wanted them to show more patience at the plate and it took awhile to sink in. Torre and Mattingly deserve some credit for that. And again, so do the Dodgers' young hitters, who were often maligned last year. It's a group effort.

Now, I should really get back to work.

2008-10-08 12:22:42
11.   cargill06
3 I'm very concerned about the .815 OPS vs RHP for Loney to the drop of .664 vs LHP. Nomar has a 1.067 OPS vs. LHP this year too. It just seems to make too much sense to start Nomar
2008-10-08 12:25:32
12.   Jon Weisman
1, 8 - By the way, as I alluded to before, this speaks to the reason why Rule 2 exists.

What I wrote was: "I think it's great, but it's not as if that's not something many of us have been wanting for years."

Now, you're free - encouraged, even - to disagree with the substance of the comment.

But to interject a cutting personal remark just poisons the well. And to interject a second cutting personal remark after the first one was sidestepped makes it like you're begging for a reaction.

I don't like it.

2008-10-08 12:28:49
13.   silverwidow
My HS developed Hall of Famer Ralph Kiner.

It was Alhambra, by the way.

2008-10-08 12:31:01
14.   cargill06
3 When Loney faces LHP this year he turns into Juan Pierre. When James faces left handed pitching throughout his career he turns into Delmon Young (Loney career .744 OPS vs. LHP)
2008-10-08 12:31:04
15.   Sam PHL
11. I think Nomar's lefty / righty splits this year are just noise. He only has 66 PA against lefties this year. Last year he had a .611 OPS against them in 103 PA.
2008-10-08 12:32:41
16.   cargill06
But to interject a cutting personal remark just poisons the well. And to interject a second cutting personal remark after the first one was sidestepped makes it like you're begging for a reaction.

You had me until "but..". I have no clue what that is supposed to mean.

2008-10-08 12:32:49
17.   Frip
12 "Cutting" rather mistates the case.

I take you seriously as a writer and thinker. So when you're anything less than reasonable it really jumps out at me. I'll work on my tone. I guess I'm sorry.

2008-10-08 12:33:32
18.   cargill06
16 Wait, I got it after reading for the 4th time. I'm a little slow sometimes.
2008-10-08 12:33:33
19.   Harold M Johnson
13 I've been wanting for a long time to put together an all-LA baseball team to publish on my blog, but never got around to fleshing it out. I had Kiner on there for sure, here's what else I have:

1B: Eddie Murray
2B: Joe Gordon
SS: Ozzie Smith, Robin Yount
3B: Terry Pendelton
RF: Tony Gwynn
LF: Ralph Kiner
CF: ??
C: Gary Carter

What do you think? I'm sure I'm missing a ton of people...

2008-10-08 12:34:07
20.   Andrew Shimmin
Plus, if you're going to attack Jon personally, he's way more vulnerable in other areas. The real Dodger stuff is a low percentage shot.
2008-10-08 12:35:33
21.   bhsportsguy
To say that Torre and company preached patience is a new concept didn't watch the team play in 2006. That team set several offensive records including OBP and walks.

And, by now, no one needs to be reminded that Garciaparra and Kent are notorious first pitch swingers, though Kent will take a walk.

But with Furcal, Martin, Manny and Ethier at the top of the lineup, those guys will see pitches.

Donnie Baseball may or may not have had an influence on the offense but there has never been any evidence that hitting coaches have made a positive impact, certainly there are some who complain about former Dodger Mickey Hatcher but he is just preaching what Mike Scioscia wants to do.

2008-10-08 12:37:20
22.   Marty
I'm sitting in LAX bored, so I'll contribute to high school thoughts. I don't think my high school had had any professional baseball players to my knowledge. We've had some football players including Billy Kilmer and Fair Hooker. I don't remember if George Trapp made the NBA, but his brother John Q. was a Laker.

My high school beat Underdog's high school (they had Keith Wilkes) in the CIF semi-finals. 1970 I think.

2008-10-08 12:37:21
23.   bhsportsguy
19 CF - Duke Snider and Eric Davis, RF (for better or worse) Daryl Strawberry.
2008-10-08 12:38:12
24.   bhsportsguy
The only MLB player from my high school that I recall is Brian Kingman.

I'll let it go at that.

2008-10-08 12:38:56
25.   Disabled List
19 CF - Duke Snider
2008-10-08 12:39:34
26.   DBrim
My high school (redondo union high) had Morgan Ensburg. That hasn't gone well over the past few years.

My college (northeastern university) had Carlos Pena. Since we're not known for sports, that's something the school is proud of.

2008-10-08 12:40:03
27.   Sam PHL
14. If we use that type of comparison, who would you rather have facing Hamels, Freddy Sanchez or Rickie Weeks?

In his career, righties have hit like Freddy Sanchez against him and lefties have hit like Weeks.

2008-10-08 12:40:48
28.   Marty
Don Drysdale was from Van Nuys. Is that close enough?
2008-10-08 12:41:23
29.   Disabled List
19 Also, George Brett was a SoCal guy, right?
2008-10-08 12:41:46
30.   bhsportsguy
28 Probably, I would use LA County as the geographic boundary but its not my list.
2008-10-08 12:42:04
31.   bhsportsguy
29 He grew up here but he was not born here.
2008-10-08 12:43:43
32.   Tripon
Hong-Chih Kuo is expected to be placed on the NLCS roster tomorrow when it becomes finalized, and it appears James McDonald is the odd man out.

http://www.beloblog.com/Pe_Blogs/prosports/mlb/dodgers/

2008-10-08 12:45:34
33.   Frip
21 Donnie Baseball may or may not have had an influence on the offense but there has never been any evidence that hitting coaches have made a positive impact.

There is no evidence, because there can't be evidence for such a thing. Any more than an a particular English teacher being responsible for a successful author.

2008-10-08 12:46:48
34.   underdog
20 Yah, if you really want to get at him, talk about how underrated "Becker" was.
2008-10-08 12:47:01
35.   Tripon
Donnie Baseball may or may not have had an influence on the offense but there has never been any evidence that hitting coaches have made a positive impact.

Then why have hitting or pitching coaches in the first place?

2008-10-08 12:47:40
36.   cargill06
27 Fair enough, I just don't think James should be an automatic start. He's been one of our worst hitters in the 2nd half (.737 post- ASB), his last 101 PA's (including playoffs) is .186/.198/.309. He is a guy who is clearly struggling and struggles against LHP, it just doesn't make too much sense to me.

But like I said, prove me wrong James!!

2008-10-08 12:48:47
37.   Disabled List
28 Van Nuys is entirely a part of the city of Los Angeles. I'm an authority on this, having been born there myself.
2008-10-08 12:49:45
38.   ToyCannon
22
For a while John Q Trapp was my favorite name in the NBA. Part of the legendary 2nd group after the 1st group demolished the team in 3 quarters.
2008-10-08 12:50:18
39.   old dodger fan
Does "All LA" mean born in LA or raised in LA? I don't think Ozzie Smith was born in LA.
2008-10-08 12:51:25
40.   Harold M Johnson
Wikipedia says George Brett's family moved to El Segundo, but doesn't say when. I think High School is the best barometer for if someone "belongs" on the All-LA team.
2008-10-08 12:52:20
41.   MC Safety
I'm related to Doug DiCinces somehow through marriage.
2008-10-08 12:53:22
42.   Disabled List
Jay Jaffe's series preview is thorough, well-researched, and altogether excellent. (And it is indeed not behind the subscription-only wall.) He basically says the two teams are about as evenly matched as can be, but he's giving the edge to the Dodgers because of their deeper rotation.

BP was seemingly the only source that said the Cubs-Dodgers series was going to be much closer than everyone thought (although, it was actually a blowout... just not the way everyone else had it). Good stuff.

2008-10-08 12:54:46
43.   Jon Weisman
I've written extensively about hitting coaches in the past. Search the archives for Tim Wallach or Jack Clark.
2008-10-08 12:56:30
44.   underdog
42 Jaffe: "Ethier hit a searing .368/.448/.649 over the final two months, a performance that likely had less to do with any mythical protection effect than it did his enjoying some newfound certainty about his role."

Yay for Jaffe!

2008-10-08 12:57:47
45.   Andrew Shimmin
34- Shh! There may come a day of insurrection and blood letting; where will you be, then, if you've already given out all the best tools?
2008-10-08 13:00:42
46.   superbas
anybody else hear the excellent dan evans with the loose cannon just now? none of the coletti's corporate shill lines and posturing. he talked about the kids they drafted...kemp and billz' signings as well as martin's 1st day behind the plate. also said it was a "devastating day" for him when he had a deal in place with vlad and mccourt axed it.
2008-10-08 13:00:46
47.   JoeyP
In short series, I'm really surprised any publication could so heavily predict one team will beat the other.
2008-10-08 13:02:20
48.   superbas
**excellent interview...although dan evans sounded pretty awesome too.
2008-10-08 13:03:16
49.   trainwreck
I like how when people criticize Manny it is for his playing effort and not easily the worst thing he did in Boston, which is shove an old man down to the ground.
2008-10-08 13:06:49
50.   Tripon
49 There was a line Gammons and Onley was pushing for a while that players who took steroids were better teammates than Manny was because they rationalized that players who took steroids were helping their teams. While Manny was selfish with his contracts demands. Never mind that Manny just kept on hitting and actually playing throughout the whole thing. And the one thing that nobody asks while disparaging Manny, why wasn't he suspended if he was a determent to the Red Sox?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-10-08 13:07:09
51.   Alex41592
In the eight games against the Dodgers this season the Phillies have hit nine home runs.

Kershaw (Utley and Burrell)
Penny (Werth, Dobbs and Howard)
Maddux (Coste and Howard)
Troncoso (Utley)
JJJ (Feliz)

JJJ, Troncoso and Penny are not on the roster. Maddux and Kershaw are in the bullpen (pending Game 4 start).

If our postseason pitching staff can limit the long ball, which they did in eight games, we're in good shape.

2008-10-08 13:07:32
52.   scareduck
1 , 8 , 12 , 17 , etc. - you'd think the Dodgers had been swept in the first round rather than the other way.
2008-10-08 13:08:05
53.   Bob Timmermann
13
When I was at Michigan Stadium this year, the baton twirler (or drum major I forget) was from Alhambra, but the PA announcer said it like the name of the Spanish palace.

My brother and I chuckled.

2008-10-08 13:09:18
54.   trainwreck
50
Gammons basically works PR for the Red Sox.
2008-10-08 13:09:47
55.   JoeyP
I like how when people criticize Manny it is for his playing effort and not easily the worst thing he did in Boston, which is shove an old man down to the ground.

Wasnt that Pedro Martinez that shoved down Don Zimmer? I thought that was one of the funniest things I've ever seen in baseball. I'm glad Pedro did it. Zimmer was out of control.

2008-10-08 13:11:17
56.   Frip
49 Well, baseball fans usually criticize baseball players about baseball.
2008-10-08 13:11:24
57.   scareduck
55 - Manny shoved the team's travelling secretary to the ground for failing to get him enough tickets to a game. It was widely reported, and some people read it as the beginning of a Scott Boras attempt to get Manny traded and his team option years voided.
2008-10-08 13:11:32
58.   JoeyP
50- Gammons shouldnt be upset with Manny. Its not like the Red Sox got screwed. They got Jason Bay for 6 mils next year.

I'm not convinced the Dodgers wouldnt be in better shape if they dealt with Pitt directly and traded for Bay.

2008-10-08 13:12:11
59.   JoeyP
55- Oh ok. I never read that story. The secretary should have sued Manny if that really happened.
2008-10-08 13:12:22
60.   scareduck
54 - ESPN doesn't pay much, apparently.
2008-10-08 13:13:17
61.   trainwreck
58
Bay might not have helped as much this season, but he would still be on the team next year at good cost, which is a big deal.
2008-10-08 13:14:11
62.   Tripon
58 It only took two players to get Manny. It would have taken four prospects to pick up Jason Bay.
2008-10-08 13:19:33
63.   Tripon
Cubs picked up Harden's $7 million option.
2008-10-08 13:20:08
64.   Alex41592
60 - No they don't. ESPNews thinks Lowe needs to revert to his 2004 Red Sox numbers in order to shut down the Phillies.

They must have missed the past two months. Plus the fact that nobody on the Philies has a history of hitting Derek Lowe very well. Small exception Chase Utley (5 for 14). If Lowe is Lowe I feel good about taking at least one game in Philly.

28 hours until Hamels vs. Furcal!

2008-10-08 13:21:11
65.   Eric Stephen
51
Excellent point! Messers Lowe, Bills, Kuroda, Broxton, Beimel, Park, & Kuo have pitched a combined 43 homerless innings against the Phightin' Phils (3.14 ERA).
2008-10-08 13:25:12
66.   Tripon
I forgot that Casey Blake can play the outfield corners. So Ozuna is the sixth outfielder then?
2008-10-08 13:26:03
67.   Disabled List
51 , 65 I've been looking for the secret bit of info that leads me to think the Dodgers have a hidden edge in this series. That might just be it, right there.
2008-10-08 13:28:05
68.   Penarol1916
64. To me, the first game is one of our lower chance games, if we win Game One, then I really like our chances this series. If we don't, then that's okay, because it wasn't one I was counting on anyway.
2008-10-08 13:34:52
69.   bhsportsguy
Another nice column about a man who along with Jerry West, Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Roman Gabriel and Deacon Jones set a foundation for professional sports in Los Angeles.

http://tinyurl.com/elginbaylor

2008-10-08 13:35:20
70.   East Coast Dodger
I'm a little late to the party, but Jeff King, the former 3B for the Pirates, is the only player I'm aware of who went to my high school.

I may be in L.A. the 21st through the 26th - what is the best way for me to get tickets to a possible Dodgers game that might be happening around then? I also live 1.5 hours from Fenway and try to go there as well.

2008-10-08 13:37:07
71.   KG16
68 - being the eternal optimist that I am (or maybe just being the crazed competitor that I am), I'm kind of counting on winning both games in Philly before winning both games in LA.
2008-10-08 13:39:39
72.   trainwreck
Ned is going to be on Rome is Burning in a few seconds.
2008-10-08 13:43:06
73.   Eric Stephen
69
That must have been one of the last tinyurls not yet taken! :)
2008-10-08 13:44:26
74.   Harold M Johnson
68 Totally agree, it's similar to the last series, where Dempster had been huge at home. Win that first game in Philly, and the odds of winning the series increase considerably.
2008-10-08 13:44:48
75.   Kevin Lewis
71

But then I can't go to game 5...oh wait, who cares, we're in the WS then

2008-10-08 13:49:23
76.   bhsportsguy
73 The athletes I wished I saw play live in Los Angeles sports history:

1. Jackie Robinson playing for UCLA football team.
2. Sandy Koufax
3. Baylor and West
4. Fearsome Foursome
5. Ferdinand Lewis Alcindor

By the Wilt came, he was not player he was in Philly and I did see him during the 1972 season as I did see West but not in their prime. Even Bill Walton at UCLA is a hazy memory. But since then I have seen them all.

2008-10-08 13:53:45
77.   Alex41592
No Saito in the N.L.C.S?

http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/2008/10/saitos-roster-s.html

2008-10-08 13:54:25
78.   Eric Stephen
71
Since I am no longer going to Game 5, I expect to see a clincher Monday. :)
2008-10-08 13:59:11
79.   trainwreck
77
Wade and Kuo become even more important.
2008-10-08 13:59:22
80.   SG6
Manny on shoving the Red Sox executive from a Simers interview:

A FEW more tidbits from the sit-down with Ramirez:

* As for the incident that had him knocking down a Red Sox executive, "I was wrong," Ramirez said.

He said the relationship with the executive had been deteriorating for some time, and a day earlier the guy had said some nasty things to Ramirez in front of Ramirez's teammates.

Ramirez went home troubled, returned and asked for a meeting with the executive. "I told him, 'I can't have you disrespecting me in front of my teammates.' "

When he didn't get the response he liked, it escalated into a shove.

"I didn't handle it the right way," he said.

2008-10-08 14:06:26
81.   Snake in Philly
I've read some of the postings of people who will be in Philly watching...ENJOY! I will be out of town for work until this weekend so it looks like I will miss any meetups. If this series gets back to Philly, I'll look y'all up then. I hope that we win in 4 and we have to put off any meetings until next year.
2008-10-08 14:09:33
82.   Jon Weisman
You can't win just with Broxton and Wade. With Saito and Kuo at best on limited duty, some other relievers are going to have to come up huge.
2008-10-08 14:18:03
83.   Bob Timmermann
82
Greg Maddux to the rescue!
2008-10-08 14:19:10
84.   Eric Stephen
82
Sounds like a house call is in order for Dr. Proctor.
2008-10-08 14:19:34
85.   Alex41592
82 - Beimel will have his chance for sure.
2008-10-08 14:20:24
86.   underdog
82 Broxton, Wade, Beimel, Kuo + Maddux or Kershaw + Proctor or Troncoso is still a pretty solid bullpen. I'd rather have the Saito of old in the mix too but if he's going to be as bad as he looked in Game 2 in Chicago, just as well leave him out, alas.
2008-10-08 14:24:56
87.   The Mootz
82 Alas, sometimes you have to put in Proctor and gamble.
2008-10-08 14:25:56
88.   Tripon
James Loney is the 3rd Lefty reliever.
2008-10-08 14:26:00
89.   oshea2002
I agree, Broxton, Wade, Beimel, Kuo and Maddux should be ok. I think we have to go with Lowe in game 4, thereby throwing Kershaw in there too. Against this team, I don't like Park and McDonald on the roster. Throw Troncoso or Proctor on.
2008-10-08 14:33:22
90.   Zak
87 That is very well done. Clever.
2008-10-08 14:34:04
91.   underdog
I love McDonald's upside but after watching him give up a lot of flyballs in one of his Sept appearances I worry about him pitching in that bandbox park in Philly. Probably not the best place for him, though if he had to come in that'd be a bad sign for the Dodgers anyway.
2008-10-08 14:38:40
92.   Daniel Zappala
I've been worried about Cole Hamel for this series, but then I checked our splits and I believe Furcal, Manny, Martin, and Kemp all hit well against lefties.
2008-10-08 14:43:28
93.   Tripon
Is anyone else finding espn.com unstable? I can't access any of the writers blogs.
2008-10-08 14:44:15
94.   Bob Timmermann
ESPN.com was crashing my browser, so I decided to stop reading it.
2008-10-08 14:54:00
95.   Jim Hitchcock
Speaking of crashing, another rock slide off Glacier Point destroyed 7 cabins in Camp Curry. The amount of rock released was said to be equal to 12 garbage trucks parked side by side. Minor injuries only, but I guess I won't be hiking that abandoned trail up to the top anytime soon.
2008-10-08 14:58:08
96.   Tripon
Looks like espn.com is working now.
2008-10-08 15:27:00
97.   dsfan
Know the Pirates wanted prospects, but it seemed to me they were a bit hasty in moving Bay. Guess LaRoche's performance will be the key for them.
2008-10-08 15:30:54
98.   Tripon
Derrick Shea (cleveland): You picked LA vs Boston for Ws, so Manny gets a ring either way if that happens?

SportsNation Jim Callis: Hadn't thought of that. That's pretty funny.

If the world series ended in a tie, does Manny get two rings?

2008-10-08 15:30:59
99.   bhsportsguy
Not that it means anything but at least in National League, the home team has only won two of the last eight League Championship Series (2001 Diamondbacks, 2004 Cardinals).
2008-10-08 15:34:28
100.   ToyCannon
97
Moss = Xavier Paul and Hansen = Meloan but we already moved Meloan. I agree that it would have been better to deal with Pitt directly given the cost of Bay. I'd sold high on Wade and made it Wade, LaRoche, Morris, Paul which might have given us Bay but we probably would not be in the playoffs and we would have missed the coolest two months I'd ever been around.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-10-08 15:37:29
101.   Tripon
Wonder if Xavier Paul would ever get a chance with the Dodgers. And its not as if we can sell high on Paul, since other teams don't want him desperately.
2008-10-08 15:51:37
102.   Brian Y
I wonder why Xavier Paul doesn't get more love? He plays solid defense, has good speed, and when he hits the ball he hits it very hard. He definitely has some power in his swing as well. I guess his main problem is that he K's a ton and doesn't walk that much. But honestly, he is a very good prospect IMHO
2008-10-08 15:53:41
103.   Brian Y
I was curious about the whole Manny going to the WS with the Dodgers when he gets paid by the BoSox. Let's say that there is a bonus in his contract if Manny wins the MVP of the WS....does he still get paid that bonus if he does that for the Dodgers? I'm sure there are a bunch of little kinks but I was curious about all of that.
2008-10-08 15:55:54
104.   cargill06
102 I asked about Xaiver's defense awhile back. The impression I got is he is below average at all 3 outfield spots.
2008-10-08 15:58:15
105.   Tripon
Good news! Rudy Seanez might make the Phillies roster over Brad Happ.
2008-10-08 16:03:45
106.   Tripon
Also, the Dodgers can't possibly reach 8 losses in this post season and win the world series. Or reach 8 losses period as any combination of 7 losses in the ALCS and World Series would knock them out of the post season. Bob Timmermann must be crushed.
2008-10-08 16:09:45
107.   Bob Timmermann
I am crushed.
2008-10-08 16:15:42
108.   Jim Hitchcock
107 You were at Camp Curry??
2008-10-08 16:26:12
109.   overkill94
I'm quite late to High School Alumni Thoughts, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to represent the Mt. Whitney Pioneers!

Mike LaCoss (Reds/Astros/Royals/Giants pitcher)
Larry French (Pirates/Cubs/Dodgers pitcher)
Jim Wohlford (Royals/Brewers/Giants/Expos outfielder)
Marty Perez (Angels/Braves/Giants/Yankees/A's middle infielder)

Nothing to write home about, but they still made it!

2008-10-08 16:27:41
110.   overkill94
One other crazy thing I found out when I Wikipedia'd my home town is that the winner of "High School Musical: Get in the Picture" is from Visalia. How random is that?
2008-10-08 16:29:59
111.   Tripon
Chuck Norris lives in Torrance.
2008-10-08 16:33:21
112.   Bob Timmermann
Chuck Norris lives in Torrance because he thought Redondo Beach and Manhattan Beach were full of wusses.
2008-10-08 16:38:55
113.   I Love LA
yup Chuck Norris graduated from my HS. Word is he has never gone back since graduating ie never went to HS reunion.
2008-10-08 16:42:35
114.   Jon Weisman
"He or Maddux, but I prefer Maddux as an option later on. [James] McDonald would be another option."

http://tinyurl.com/5xnne4

2008-10-08 16:43:21
115.   Jim Hitchcock
112 What were his thoughts on Hermosa?
2008-10-08 16:46:31
116.   DBrim
Saito could be off the roster entirely.
http://tinyurl.com/46lj9a
2008-10-08 16:47:09
117.   Tripon
114 Pretty sneaky. I thought Torre was talking about the game 4 starter, but its just about the long relief role!
2008-10-08 16:52:24
118.   Jon Weisman
117 - No, I read it several times and I think he's talking about Game 4. Gurnick quotes Torre as saying he sees Kershaw or Maddux in long relief, "but I prefer Maddux as an option later on. McDonald would be another option."

It's the "but" that makes me think that he's talking about Game 4 - holding back one of those guys as a potential starter. Not that I don't think Lowe will start that game.

2008-10-08 16:58:09
119.   caseybarker
I may have mentioned this before, but Jeff Alfano (Mt. Whitney) was a catcher for several years in the Brewers organization. He was suspended, but surprisingly not released, for tipping pitches to the batters ala. Crash Davis.
2008-10-08 17:07:26
120.   LAT
113. I have never been to my HS reunion. Does that mean I am Chuck Norris. Cause if I am, I have not been kicking enough butt lately.
2008-10-08 17:10:09
121.   drewjensen
Can't miss out on High School thoughts - we had Robin Ventura, though most of us were more familiar with his basketball skills as the baseball games were pretty poorly attended.
2008-10-08 17:10:13
122.   Esquinazo
98 That could get interesting. The Red SoKKKs gave Nomar a WS ring--and the players voted him a full playoff share--in 2004, even though he'd been traded away as a mid-season trade.

Manny could conceivably get two playoff shares and a WS ring, no matter who wins!

103 Manny does have incentives in his contract, including post season awards:

* $0.15M for ALCS or World Series MVP
* $0.1M for Silver Slugger
* $75,000 for All Star selection
* MVP bonuses
--o $0.2M for 1st place in voting
--o $0.125M for 2nd
--o $0.1M for 3rd
--o $75,000 for 4th
--o $50,000 for 5th

The Dodgers would be on the hook for any post-season incentives, because the Red SoKKKs responsibility stopped at the end of the regular season. The Red SoKKKs would still be on the hook for any regular season incentives, though.

Incidentally, one of the things that never seems to get mentioned in the math for the "Re-sign Manny" discussions is that the Red SoKKKs won't be totally off the hook until the year 2026. They're still responsible for 15 years worth of deferred payments (at $1.94 million per year) beginning in 2011.

2008-10-08 17:10:32
123.   LU Dodger
Would anyone believe me, if I said that Chuck Norris gave my University's graduation commencement speech last year?

You're responses will dictate whether I shrug it off as "just kidding". lol

2008-10-08 17:15:00
124.   Eric Stephen
122
The $1.94m/yr payments never get mentioned in the math for Manny's next contract because it won't be a factor. All that is is deferred money from the 8/$160m deal he already signed.
2008-10-08 17:20:42
125.   Andrew Shimmin
So that's what LU stands for, eh?
2008-10-08 17:25:36
126.   Jim Hitchcock
126 Oh, no...Liberty University. Put another brick in the wall.
2008-10-08 17:33:58
127.   LU Dodger
125, 126

Uh oh...I have a feeling everyone just shunned me. Yikes!

Although I didn't even know west-coasters would have ever even heard of Liberty

2008-10-08 17:36:15
128.   caseybarker
If there was a "Jesse Jackson University", would it receive the same treatment as a Liberty University?
2008-10-08 17:37:05
129.   Tripon
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/arash_markazi/10/08/la.story/index.html

Arash markazi states the obvious that the Angels don't actually play in Los Angeles.

2008-10-08 17:38:49
130.   Bob Timmermann
I remember Liberty playing in the NCAA basketball tournament. It wasn't all that close.

But Liberty has done OK on the women's side.

2008-10-08 17:39:13
131.   Andrew Shimmin
127- No shunning, here. I would, but my shunning card is full. Shunning Gary Bennett takes up way more time than you can imagine.
2008-10-08 17:39:29
132.   Linkmeister
"I'm the Phille Phanatic and I approve this message."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3632459

2008-10-08 17:39:56
133.   Lexinthedena
Michael Cooper, and CHris McCallister went to my H.S....no MLBers though...:(
2008-10-08 17:40:31
134.   Esquinazo
124 I take your point, and you're right.

I do hope it matters for my purposes though (I want Manny to re-sign as a Dodger and live happily ever after).

The thing I hope Manny has enough sense to have learned from his Boston experience (I don't doubt that his discomfort and unhappiness were genuine) is that trading off a good situation for every last dollar might not be his best move.

I mentioned those deferred payments to indicate that he really doesn't have to do that. (I probably should have used the term "mental math" or "trade-offs", rather than literal math, to be clearer.)

2008-10-08 17:40:55
135.   Lexinthedena
I should add though, that my whole home town claims Jackie Robinson...even though he technically went to our rival.
2008-10-08 17:42:39
136.   Linkmeister
(Does a quick search of my blog)

Nope, I've never sneered at Liberty University. Patrick Henry College, yes. Liberty, no.

2008-10-08 17:46:59
137.   LU Dodger
130

Haha, yes women's basketball has been our calling card. We are desperately trying to gain legitimacy through the football team, which surprisingly is 5-0 and ranked 15th in the FCS. That said, we're gonna get creamed by WVU next year in Morganstown.

Our baseball team is pretty solid. Ironically we recruit heavily in California.

Liberty has garnered lots of media attention throughout the last 20 some yrs, and almost all of it bad publicity stemming from our deceased founder Jerry Falwell. I do obviously go to Liberty for a reason, but it kinda stinks that whatever Falwell said in the past automatically made people assume the student body agreed with it whole-heartedly.

2008-10-08 17:53:08
138.   Ken Noe
137 Sid Bream and Randy Tomlin are Liberty graduates. Welcome to DT's subgroup, DT posters who are from Virginia. I think there are three of us now.
2008-10-08 18:00:13
139.   Linkmeister
138 I lived in Annandale for six years and graduated from Jefferson HS in Alexandria (before it became a Sci/Tech magnet school). That's longer than I've lived anywhere except Hawai'i (now -- 30 years).
2008-10-08 18:03:29
140.   overkill94
119 Yeah, I know Jeff - he dated my sister for a while and his uncle was my baseball coach in high school.

There were a couple guys on my high school team that played in the minors, but one got busted for PED's and never did much anyway (Matt Rico) and the other has been toiling away in the D-Backs system for a while (Matt Morgan).

2008-10-08 18:05:09
141.   Kuo-fax
Random Chuck Norris story:

Back when I was in high school (late 80's, early 90's), I worked at a pizza joint, and Mr. Norris came in. One of the kitchen staff, Felipe, was a huge fan of his, but very shy and spoke little english. Felipe wanted me to ask Chuck for an autograph, despite my encouraging him to ask himself.

Chuck was super nice, but said he'd only give Felipe an autograph only if he would come ask him himself. To my surprise Chuck was fluent in Spanish, and pulled Felipe right out of his shell, talking with him for what had to be a half hour. Needless to say he made Felipe's week... and left an impression on me of what a classy guy he was.

2008-10-08 18:05:52
142.   bhsportsguy
So who is going to give the report on the Chickie and Pete's Crab Fries?

One thing that makes going to sporting events in LA not as fan friendly as places like Philly and Denver (Coors Park) is the lack of places to go right outside the stadium.

Fenway and Yankee Stadium has the charm of being neighborhood parks.

But Angel Stadium exists in a commercial district and Dodger Stadium is an island onto itself.

Imagine if the Dodgers had the same neighborhood experience like some other places, a nearby sports bar would be packed Sunday morning with football to watch and then a Dodger playoff game.

So to Molly and the rest of the DTers going to Citizen's Bank tomorrow, have fun, and don't forget the Crab Fries.

2008-10-08 18:06:24
143.   LU Dodger
Liberty is in Lynchburg, VA, but my hometown is Norfolk/Va Beach, VA, which has produced such notable athletes such as Allen Iverson, Alonzo Mourning, Michael Vick, DeAngelo Hall, Dre Bly, David Wright, both Upton brothers (B.J. going to my high school), Michael Cuddyer, Justin Orenduff, and I'm pretty sure Ryan Zimmermann is from the area as well.

Some of us would like to omit some of the first athletes on the that list but that's a different story....

2008-10-08 18:08:01
144.   LU Dodger
Oh and I can't forget Samkon Gado starting for the Packers a couple yrs ago. Literally every tv in the public commons areas were always tuned into the GreenBay games...that was annoying
2008-10-08 18:09:27
145.   Kuo-fax
Oh, and though it's late, my high school MLB players:

Gabe Kapler, Robin Yount, Larry Dierker, Rick Auerbach & Kevin Kennedy (well, not really MLB player)

2008-10-08 18:16:09
146.   Tripon
Ted Lilly is from Torrance, but I doubt he went to my high school. North Torrance High is the ugly stepchild to the other highschools in the district. (Torrance, South, West, and North).
2008-10-08 18:17:18
147.   milkshakeballa
I think I got most people beat....

Nomar Garciaparra and... Evan Longoria

2008-10-08 18:30:48
148.   Eric L
My high school is actually represented in the NLCS on the other squad. Ryan Madson graduated a few years after I left Valley View High School. The other notable VVHS alum is Kyle Turley.

Greg Dobbs didn't go to my school but I played against him in youth ball. It's crazy that there are two players on the Phils from this city (Moreno Valley). Incidentally, Bobby Kielty also went to the same school as Dobbs.

2008-10-08 18:41:08
149.   Linkmeister
Dear me. The only notable athlete from my old high school (now closed, Wikipedia tells me!) is. . . Mr. Wide Right himself. Scott Norwood of the Bills.

Wikipedia tells me that Dave Grohl of Nirvana, Foo Fighters, and Queens of the Stone Age fame attended but did not graduate.

2008-10-08 18:46:34
150.   Tripon
Hey Don Newcombe lives in Torrance.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-10-08 18:51:02
151.   trainwreck
I have brought this up before, but the only useful athlete to come out of my high school of Northgate is Doug Davis.

And apparently Icaros dominated him.

2008-10-08 18:51:41
152.   Jon Weisman
142 - Come by in 2012.
2008-10-08 18:52:27
153.   Tripon
Doug Davis better get used to the long relief role next year.
2008-10-08 19:01:10
154.   Marty
RIP Chucko the Birthday Clown. Not many people will know who he was. But he was huge when I was 5.
2008-10-08 19:02:22
155.   Gagne55
MLBers from my high school:
Robert Fick
Tyler Johnson

in a few years, Andrew Lambo.

2008-10-08 19:03:27
156.   Gagne55
Also, David Lamb had a cup of coffee in MLB and went to my HS.
2008-10-08 19:03:34
157.   Bob Timmermann
152
We'll all be wearing a green necklace!
2008-10-08 19:06:37
158.   Daniel Zappala
118 I read that article as meaning Torre prefers Maddux for late-inning relief, as he used him in the previous series. Here, I take "later on" to mean later in the game. He says he can use Kershaw or Maddux for long relief, but prefers to use Maddux later on in the game.
2008-10-08 19:14:27
159.   Pedro Astacio
Carlsbad High School

Troy Glaus

2008-10-08 19:35:28
160.   Jon Weisman
Larry Bowa says he gets "picayune" sometimes!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/selena_roberts/10/07/roberts.manny/index.html

2008-10-08 19:39:37
161.   Jacob Burch
I'm glad to have inspired an off-day fodder topic. It warms me.

Hart High is home of Todd Zeile and James Shields, along with several mediocre NFL Quarterbacks!

2008-10-08 19:41:34
162.   Bob Timmermann
160
I'm even more surprised that Bowa used the word correctly.
2008-10-08 19:47:50
163.   Bob Timmermann
161
Jon is still talking about the Kyle Matter Era at Stanford.
2008-10-08 19:48:00
164.   VirginiaDodger
137
138

Ken and LU,

Add another Virginian. Actually, I mentioned it in an earlier thread (you said that you went to Averett I believe). Good to see that I am not the only Dodger fan in Virginia. There don't seem to be many over here.

2008-10-08 19:48:00
165.   underdog
154 A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down our pants.
2008-10-08 19:52:27
166.   Jacob Burch
163 I believe one of their top recruits this year, a Howell, is also a Hart Alum.

Sorry, Jon.

When Matt Moore and Kyle Boller each started the same week last year, with equally lack luster expectations, I had no idea what to feel.

2008-10-08 19:52:31
167.   StolenMonkey86
137,138,160 - I'm from Virginia, too, currently in Fairfax.
2008-10-08 19:53:01
168.   StolenMonkey86
3rd comment number should have been 164, not 160. Blast.
2008-10-08 19:53:50
169.   arborial
Since High School thoughts keeps going I guess I will throw in that I don't know any pro baseball players from my high school but there was an amateur basketball player named Barack...oops rule 5
2008-10-08 19:54:16
170.   Jon Weisman
163 - Are you kidding? Trent Edwards was on his way to the Super Bowl until he got his 209th career (and first NFL) concussion.
2008-10-08 19:58:43
171.   Bob Hendley
Re: HS Thoughts. In MLB we have had Don Larsen and David Wells. For you Bruins, JJ Stokes was also a graduate.
2008-10-08 20:06:37
172.   MollyKnight
163-Oh my God. I think I went to college with Kyle Matter. That's a name I never thought I'd hear again.

ALSO, EVERYONE GOING TO THE GAME TOMORROW: CHICKIE AND PETE'S PRE-GAME REMINDER.

We will be in the bar area (there are tables there, too) from 5:30ish to 730ish barring a Chinatown bus disaster.

It will be fun to gather with as many of you and your friends as possible, so please stop by! And for gosh sakes someone bring a camera 'cause I dropped mine at Cellular Field and murdered it.

2008-10-08 20:08:05
173.   MollyKnight
And if we're not near the bar, just look for the only people in the joint wearing Dodger gear.
2008-10-08 20:14:05
174.   kachang
172 I heard that the place is a warehouse type space...I hope I don't get killed searching for Dodger fans!

I'll shoot for being there around 5-6pm.

BTW - in case anyone missed it before, I have one extra ticket to Friday's game. I just have to be sure it doesn't get resold so I'd like to give it to a DT person if possible. And you'd be sitting next to a Dodger fan (me)!

It's Infield 3rd Base - about 30 rows up.
Email me at jaehyun.chang at gmail.com

cheers

2008-10-08 20:31:57
175.   JJ42
HS Thoughts - this is pretty cool. For me, from Capistrano Valley HS, only one MLBer I can think of:

Brandon Puffer who played for the Astros.

I'm still a little upset about Mike Watt, who would've made the first alumni to play for the Dodgers. Greg Maddux better help us win the World Series to make it worth it!

We actually had a great athletic tradition with a lot of athletes going to D-1 schools and some in the pros, including the NFL. Some of the names include Malifou MacKenzie from USC and Todd Marinovich with the Raiders. Also, one of my classmates was Ken Norton Sr.'s daughter.

2008-10-08 20:32:21
176.   Jacob Burch
Nate Silver will be the guest tonight on the Colbert Report. Likely to mostly be Rule 5 fodder, but I hope some baseball breaks the cracks.
2008-10-08 20:36:00
177.   Jon Weisman
176 - That was last night. He was pretty good, though Colbert had some unusual awkward pauses - like he didn't know quite what to ask.
2008-10-08 20:38:14
178.   Jacob Burch
177 Huh. I just moved back home for a bit, and apparently we get western feed Comedy Central now. Curses to my excitement of breaking news.

This is way too much of a break without baseball.

2008-10-08 20:39:23
179.   sporky
This is way too much of a break without baseball.

I'm dreading the off-season.

2008-10-08 20:50:00
180.   trainwreck
It's alright people, because the NHL season starts now. : )
2008-10-08 20:53:01
181.   trainwreck
MMA is year round too. No breaks there.
2008-10-08 20:53:19
182.   sporky
180 K is going to try and convert me. Hopefully I'll follow the Sharks a little more closely than the Vikings :|
2008-10-08 20:55:10
183.   herchyzer
139 . Didn't Steely Dan have a line about Annandale? I can hear the name but not the whole line in my head.
I believe I went to high school (Taft) with Robin Yount, also Jeff Fisher, coach of the Titans, although I wasn't really aware of either (or much else) until later. I think Yount was a couple of years ahead of me and Fisher a year or so behind.
2008-10-08 20:56:00
184.   Tripon
Winter baseball starts. You too can see Eric Stults pitch for his Mexican team.

Or not.

2008-10-08 20:57:13
185.   John Hale
Memorable but obscure Dodger John Hale went to my small town high school.
I suppose I have to admit that I am not the real John Hale.
2008-10-08 20:57:52
186.   Tripon
Does anyone have a list of who's playing Winter ball?
2008-10-08 20:58:31
187.   trainwreck
182
She will. She got me back into the Sharks, after I stopped following when I went to college.
2008-10-08 21:01:16
188.   katysdad
[183) My Old School

I remember the thirty-five sweet goodbyes
When you put me on the wolverine
Up to annandale
It was still september
When your daddy was quite surprised
To find you with the working girls
In the county jail
I was smoking with the boys upstairs
When I heard about the whole affair
I said oh no
William and mary wont do
Chorus:
Well I did not think the girl
Could be so cruel
And Im never going back
To my old school

2008-10-08 21:02:29
189.   sporky
The thing with me is that I was never into hockey to begin with. Everything I know about the sport is based on Mighty Ducks 2, and the anecdotes from my toothless HS history teacher.
2008-10-08 21:02:57
190.   Lee Corbett
HS thoughts - going to high school in Sydney Australia means there's almost no chance that a MLBer went to school with me, and that in fact is the case.

But I know Chris Snelling (good mates and play baseball with his brother) who has played for Seattle, the Nationals and Philadelphia. And I played ball with Andy Graham who was at AAA for Detroit the season before this one (missed this year after surgery). That's it.

2008-10-08 21:04:08
191.   trainwreck
189
I was like that too. I even used to root for the Might Ducks, because of the movies.

It's knuckle puck time!

2008-10-08 21:04:16
192.   68elcamino427
Since that second game in Phoenix the Dodgers have been on a roll.

Keep it roll'in guys ...

I'm ready for a sensational four game win streak

2008-10-08 21:07:59
193.   John Hale
191
I was sitting behind the M's dugout one of the times that Chris Snelling suffered serious injury. So sad to see such a promising player go through that. And he was on the all interview team. When he came back and talked about going on walk-about it was classic. Hope he makes it.
2008-10-08 21:09:53
194.   Tripon
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/variety_pacino_eyes_lasorda_role_in_miramax_movie/

Al Pacino wants to make a movie about Lasorda.

2008-10-08 21:12:39
195.   KG16
Esperanza High School (Anaheim, CA)

baseball:

Greg Miller (yes, our Greg Miller)
David Parish (son of Lance, career minor leaguer, from what I understand)
Keith McDonald
David Newhan
Mike Simms

Football:

Brandon Stai (offensive lineman)
Travis Kirshke (defensive lineman)

And a few actors/actresses along the way.

Also: Heather Bown (US indoor volleyball team); a couple of MLS players. Oh and the daughters of John Force.

2008-10-08 21:13:57
196.   tjdub
More HS Thoughts:

Poway High School, Phil Plantier (he was two years ahead and, um, much much better than me). Tony Gwynn Jr. In basketball Jud Buechler piggy backed on MJ for an NBA ring or two.

2008-10-08 21:14:27
197.   trainwreck
194
LOL. That is the worst thing ever!
2008-10-08 21:15:58
198.   KG16
Also, my parents went to high school (Los Al, the irony) with Dennis Lamp (first major leaguer I ever met), outside Angel Stadium (I think he was with either Oakland or Toronto at the time) he stopped and talked to the family for a good 15 minutes.
2008-10-08 21:26:08
199.   seesdifferent
my son was a classmate of Clayton Kershaw from Highland Park High School, played on the football team with him until Clayton quit to devote himself to baseball. Clayton was the starting center. Matthew Stafford of Georgia was the quarterback, and also played shortstop on the baseball team. Of course, Chris Young of the Padres is also from Highland Park, as is Daniel Sepulveda of the Steelers. Not to mention Doak Walker, Bobby Layne and of course Angie Harmon.
2008-10-08 21:26:45
200.   herchyzer
188 . For the most part I never had any idea what the hay Steely Dan were singing about. Yet I liked them. "Bodisatva, 'n take me by the hand!" Huh?
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-10-08 21:26:53
201.   DBrim
197 - And yet, somehow, the best thing ever.
2008-10-08 21:28:22
202.   Tripon
I just hope the movie goes down like Goodfellas or Casino.
2008-10-08 21:28:33
203.   trainwreck
199
Wow, the Minotaur was a center.
2008-10-08 21:31:51
204.   Tripon
"He gives us, God forbid, a long guy," said Torre. "He or Maddux, but I prefer Maddux as an option later on. [James] McDonald would be another option."

Going back to this quote, Torre has to be talking about long relief, otherwise why mention McDonald? He's is definitely not a candidate to start game 4.

2008-10-08 21:32:31
205.   Frip
I don't care how good an actor Pacino is, he was not a credible football coach, no matter how much he screamed and brooded. And he is even less likely as a baseball manager. He simply clashes with green.
2008-10-08 21:34:28
206.   Bob Hendley
184 - With the Little Deers of Mazatlan. I hope to make it up there to see him and offer words of encouragement (and let him know that most DTistas felt he got shafted). BTW, technically I did a year of HS in Mazatlan and along the Pacific Coast of Mexico--U of Nebraska correspondence school.
2008-10-08 21:34:46
207.   trainwreck
205
Al Pacino has not been a good actor for awhile.
2008-10-08 21:38:18
208.   Eric Stephen
194
"What do I think of Kingman's performance? Say hello to my little friend!"

"So I yelled, 'Hey Mac, hoo-ah! It ain't gonna work; I blew it out!"

Bob Costas: "You can't beat the mighty Mets."
Lasorda: "Who's being naive now, Bob?"

2008-10-08 21:47:50
209.   LAT
Went to Moses Brown School in Providence, RI.

Famous athletes in baseball: nobody.
Famous athletes in football: nobody.
Famous athletes in basketball: nobody.
Famous athletes in lacrosse: Chris Rotelli

2008-10-08 21:48:22
210.   kinbote
Venice High School

Doug Slaten

2008-10-08 21:49:44
211.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2008-10-08 21:53:02
212.   808Bears
169 There's Joey Meyer (Brewers, mostly) and I'm sure Jon remembers Justin Wayne. That's the only two that I can find, although we do claim Norm Chow (and Michelle Wie).

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